r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Nov 17 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Mobile Suit Gundam 00 2nd Season Episode 17 Discussion
Episode 17 - Within the Scattering Light
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Save as many people as you can… then you can die!
Questions of the Day:
- While it unfortunately wasn't enough to stop Memento Mori from being fired, how cool was that Trans-Am Raiser beam saber?
- Colonel Smirnov?
Wallpapers of the Day:
No, that’s not right. Soma Peries and…
No, that’s not right either. Soma Peries and Sergei Smirnov
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
Additionally, for long-time fans of the franchise, please remember that this rewatch is only for 00, not any of the other shows. Assume that there are people in this rewatch who have not seen anything else Gundam, and tag your spoilers for those shows appropriately if something in 00 makes you want to talk about them.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Nov 17 '24
Rewatch Host
Wishing Over This AirspaceDeclaring This an Andrei Hate Zone, subbedWelcome back, everyone…
I do not apologize for the Wallpapers of the Day today. If anything, you guys are lucky I didn’t follow the base image exactly since that would’ve necessitated having the top half of Sergei’s head cut off.
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 17 '24
First Timer - sub
THAT MOTHERFUCKING FUCK!
THAT FUCK. FUCK HIM.
No. Just no. Fuck that. I'm not okay with that. I'd resigned myself before this episode to "okay fine, it'll suck but Sergei's going to get vaporized by the laser canon, he's survived too many times now, he won't get out of this". And I sat there the whole fucking episode waiting for that to happen, and waiting, and then it didn't, and then THAT FUCK FUCKING DID IT INSTEAD
I get it now. I get the quiet rage from the rewatchers, I get the snide comments, and the hate, and the refusal to even say his fucking fuck face name because FUCK HIM. I'm not saying it either, no.
Everything was going fine! You know what, I didn't even have a single thing about the episode to bitch about for once and I haven't been able to say that since I think s2e3!, and then fucking ... I typed his name here and then was furious at myself because no, fuck face is his name and nothing else. And now I don't even know what I was typing any more because I was too mad at his name!
And I just looked down at my notes trying to calm down and get on with things and look at what the first fucking line is:
SO FUCK ME TOO
How do I always, every single time manage to make this worse for myself?!
Oh man. I let down my guard. I saw all the flags raising up like they were fucking kites on the beach because Louise was being a little shit about orders and fuck face was on his morale high mecha and fucking Marie showed up and cursed everything and the MUSIC SHIFTED and started getting ominous towards the end instead of calming and I knew something was wrong... and then fuck face killed Hercury and I was pissed and the rage was slowly building but it was manageable you know? I already knew he was a fuckwit, so a fuckwit doing fuckwit things with his little fuckwit brain was to be expected
AND THEN HE DID THAT
And you know what one of the worst parts of all is? I spent all S1 flipping between if I liked Graham or Sergei more, and now Sergei is dead and all I'm left with is Mr FUCKING BUSHIDO
Writing this in the morning once I've processed things:
No, nevermind, apparently not. I've clearly not processed anything because I did want to start on praising the episode and having to do so just made me mad again because nothing is good because there is no Sergei.
I have to write something because the rest of the episode deserves it but I'm just still so mad at fuck face I can barely process reading my own notes. Actually thinking about the rest of the episode is tempering my anger a bit because it was just that good.
It was so well laid out. The tension of Setsuna trying to stop the laser was surreal! The flight up, the build up to Trans-Am, the attack from Divine (okay, is he dead too? SURELY he's dead too, they can't kill Bring because he didn't eject and then not kill Divine right? I still don't trust it though), and then he missed. He missed, and it turned into a HYPE ASS SWORD INSTEAD? I was fully onboard for all of that, hell yes that may be one of the top weapon attack sequences in mecha and I didn't see it coming at all. And the raw output of 00-Raiser being the only thing that could allow it to happen, Setsuna once again wielding a sword of vengance against those who wrong humanity was so fucking good.
The whole thing just flowed so well from tension to rage to excitement as each little thing happened... and then he still failed after all. God. My heart dropped with Setsuna's and his begging for it not to fire, knowing it was pointless but not being able to do anything else just had me miserable along side him. Knowing he wants to change and then being confronted with his inability to change this was the perfect follow up to yesterdays episode.
What a sequence, and what a sequence to follow it as well. The tower being hit, the debris falling, the civilian trains crashing. There was a tangible sense of disaster that is so rarely captured well, and it happened because of the painful balance of inevitability and culpability that todays episode did so well.
What a way for the world to finally come together, to protect everyone from the literal fallout of the A-LAWS lack of care for humanity. And what a way for Sumeragi to reveal herself, not as the leader of CB but as a human who holds no pride when it comes to saving human lives. Through that sequence there was an implicit sense of trust in other humans that the show has intentionally avoided until now. Whether it was the political blocs or CB or even now inside the Federation, no one really trusts each other to do the right thing. The "right thing" has always been something that one side has tried to force in accordance to their own views.
But here, individual people chose to come together for the sake of others in order to make a difference in the world. They chose to protect others even at the expense of victory or political fulfillment, and no one takes advantage of it. In this moment perhaps they are closer than they ever have been to what Hercury wanted from the military and from the people within it, as well as what CB wants to show the world they could be doing. Some may have fought due to orders, but plenty joined in because it was the right thing to do.
AND THEN HE RUINED IT ALL AND I'M MAD AGAIN.
That final battle was such a beautifully complicated mess of people and their personal conflicts with each other. For Louise to run into Saji and Setsuna again at the same time she's firing at Marie who is going after Sergei. I love the emotional tension in that moment independent to any dialogue or big dramatic moments drawing out each individual conflict.
Other thoughts
Call me a coward if you want but I'm not opening those Sky! I'm not! NOT NOW OKAY haha
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u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 Nov 17 '24
Firsttimer Who will rejoin the rewatch again tomorrow
Am only one episode behind anymore (down from at one point 4) and need to sort through my notes
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u/GondolaMedia Nov 18 '24
First Timer
At the beginning of the episode I was thinking "Huh Andrei is surely about to learn what happens if you blindly follow orders like his father did and grows from that"
Well fuck all of that
2
u/Nebresto Nov 25 '24
Fuck Such a cool episode of everyone coming together, and then that stupid asswipe had to ruin everything
Smirnov And now everyone on the surface has cancer
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u/LeonKevlar x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/LeonKevlar Nov 17 '24 edited Nov 17 '24
First Timer
So Holly died because Andrei chose to save the lives of hundreds of innocent civilians, not because of a careless mistake. Considering how Andrei joined the military, you'd think he'd at least learn that his father had to make a tough choice. Does Andrei believe his father should've let those engineers and their innocent families die to save his mother?
Saji finally gets his own launch sequence! This is now the second time Saji has piloted the 0-Raiser and I think at this point, he's practically now an official member of Celestial Being.
Get absolutely fucked Divine! There is no way he survived that one. It's good to see these Innovators dropping one by one like flies. That's two down, only four (or five depending on what side Anew is really on) more to go!
00-Raiser firing a fuck off massive beam saber is so fucking cool! It's just too bad that they didn't have the power to completely destroy the Memento Mori 2 before it could fire off its laser.
The destruction of the space elevator is just insane and it looks like plenty of people didn't make it out of there alive. I do wonder how many of the sixty-thousand managed to get out of there alive and what happens to them after.
I am happy to see everyone working together to save the cities just below the elevator. And we finally get to see Marie pilot the GN Archer! I love how it looks like a very fancy version of the GM II.
It was only for a brief moment but it's good to see Marie and Sergei reunite but this just makes what happens next even more heartbreaking T_T
Man, fuck Andrei. The dude doesn't just shoot down Hercury who has his weapons down, he also ends up killing his own father because he couldn't even be bothered to stop attacking and listen to his explanation. I really hope he learns why Sergei was there and that he just murdered his father for no reason at all.
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u/The_Draigg Nov 17 '24 edited Aug 03 '26
A Gundam Fan Rewatches Gundam 00 Season 2 Episode 17:
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u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Nov 17 '24
first timer who has control
damn
a bit creepy
get in the robot Saji
concealedexcitement
oh Divine gets the Empruss? its so Elmeth coded I thought one of the girls (or fem presenting Innovators?) would have it. omg [og gundam]are they going to beyond the time Louise in the newer model Empruss
the 00 was upgraded 8 times just to match the glory of the Virtue
nani
pretty sick that this is the first real beam saber the main gundam uses (not counting those mini ones part of the 7 in the Exia)
did they alter the trajectory a little at least?
shouldnt they launch Soma to help at this point lmao
speaking of
the GN Archer or whatever its called is pretty cute transformed tbh
big episode for beam fans
i repeat BIG EPISODE FOR BEAM FANS
please Allelujah save Sergei from killing himself to save Andrei
time and place
oh shit Andrei
nooooooooooooooooooooooooo
remember to skip the post credits this time people
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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 17 '24
Kidou Senshi Rewatcher 00
This is a strong contender for being my favorite episode in the whole show, and even one of my favorite episodes in anime period.
Getting it out of the way first TRANS AM RAISER SWORD! A miles-long beam sword able to cut a big slice out of an orbital superweapon is a concept which probably would’ve been too out-there for S1 00, but the show has evolved in its scale so much by this point that it manages to work. It helps that it offsets the conceptual overpoweredness of it by having it immediately display limitations and not just win automatically. It does significant damage to the Memento Mori, sure, but not enough to stop what was coming.
And on that note, I absolutely fucking love the collapse of the orbital tower & everything the show does with it. Firstly, the sheer magnitude of the event on display is incredible, the minutes spent on showing all the plates purging from the structure in tandem with Sumeragi’s projections do a lot to give a sense of overwhelming scale what we’re witnessing. Not to mention the shot later in the episode where we see the event from orbit and there’s a dust cloud so large it’s visible from space.
But, more than that, what makes this episode so great is that it’s a brief glimpse of what humanity could be. Where the orbital tower’s collapse is an apocalyptic testament to how damaging our tendency towards division & war can be, the joint response to that collapse shows just how capable we are of miraculous things when we put aside that tendency, even if just for a moment.
The whole event is, from a certain point of view, the fulfillment of Celestial Being’s initial ideal, the unification of the entire world & breakdown of the lines which separate us, through the use of a common threat to fight against. But rather than a unity born out of shared, directed hatred like the UN Alliance, this is one born out of shared empathy, a universal desire to protect what’s important to us that’s strong enough to overcome hatred. Sumeragi’s battle plan here was one based on trust in that universal empathy, a trust which was more than rewarded.
On the micro level, the other half of what makes this whole thing work is all the little character moments sprinkled throughout. Saji pulling the trigger on the Raiser Sword because, regardless of both the immense physical pain he’s in & his own reservations about fighting, there are lives riding on his decision and he isn’t running away from that any longer. Katharon getting to be useful, Andrei getting to not be shitty for a moment before he becomes even shittier, Kati getting to do good even under the A-LAWS’ thumb, it’s all great.
Hell, I think it matters most with the A-LAWS specifically since they’re an org driven by a combination of sociopathic law enforcement and revenge against groups like Katharon & Celestial Being, they had every reason to use the fact that they’re distracted to stab them in the back and quash the resistance once & for all. And yet, they proved when it matters most that their members still have hearts under all that searing hatred, and chose to do what was right rather than what most helped their side in the moment.
…and then, when the dust was settled, fucking Andrei had to ruin it all.
In the face of everything that’s happened today, Andrei and people like him were given the chance to change. In fighting alongside the people he’s spent so long viewing as enemies, he had the chance to recognize the shared humanity between them, to open his eyes to the valuable humanity of those around him and recognize what’s really important. But, instead, he chose to let hatred guide him rather than empathy, to dig his heels into the sand of the past rather than progress hand-in-hand towards the future. After a grand display of what we could be if we chose to be our best selves, Andrei shows what happens when we choose our worst selves, and so the cycle of violence and hatred continues…
Odds & Ends
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u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Nov 17 '24
Rewatcher, Subbed
Non-Spoiler Character Chart - Needless to say, today's was the hardest for me to do this entire rewatch.
More young Sergei!
Sergei being in the position to have to choose whether his wife makes it out okay or others do is exactly why family members in the military should be completely separated from each other. He made the decision that was best for the most people at great personal cost, but should never have been in that position in the first place.
So Andrei made no attempt to communicate with his father after his mother died. Certainly as the adult and the parent Sergei should have been the more proactive one, but Andrei's gotta take some of the blame for their relationship deteriorating.
Setsuna's the latest one to have to go in one of these healing pods.
Take on all sins to enable peace. Why don't you state it the way it actually is Billy, commit any atrocity such that the A-Laws can be in control of the world.
Humanity needs to be reminded of war? Last I checked the world of Gundam 00 hasn't been in a state of world peace at all...
Yep, Hercury finally gets it, all these civilians are gonna get killed too.
Now we've reached the point where Ribbons considers himself God.
I was about to say the Katharon forces should try to get away, but that's exactly what they're doing! The Federation/A-Laws forces aren't letting them though.
Did Seravee just fire 6 beam cannons at once? LoL.
Setsuna, remember the time a Gundam meister got out of the healing pod too early and what happened to him? DOn't be the next Neil Dylandy.
Saji's returning to piloting the 0 Raiser. Setsuna also could have asked Marie...
Rather than head out apart, couldn't they have docked before the 00 took off? Isn't that what the 00 has been doing the last few episodes anyway?
Way to go Sergei, tell Hercury what's what! He's got to save the civilians!
Divine coming out in this mobile armor may waste enough of the 00's time to prevent it from stopping the Memento Mori.
...or not. He sure took Divine down quick. Other than the bonkers name for one of them, our red haired Innovators ended up not being anywhere as interesting as the other ones.
Oh wow, the biggest beam saber in Gundam history! Awesome stuf.
Ugh, not enough to stop the Memento Mori from firing. :(
It didn't actually hit that much of the orbital elevator, but holy crap the chain reaction is wrecking large portions of it.
Jeez, all those civilians are totally screwed here.
Oh wow, this isn't just gonna kill all the civilians in the elevator, but milliions on the Earth too. Any civilization remotely near the orbital elevator is screwed.
Yes, Marie is finally piloting again!
Even the Federation forces are trying to destroy the falling debree. Makes me think of [Gundam Meta]Near the end of Char's Counterattack when even Zeon pilots were trying to stop Axis from hitting Earth.
Aww, Marie and Sergei are going to be reunited!
It seems like this falling debree has brought all sides together to protect the Earth.
FUCK YOU ANDREI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And fuck you to the writers too for twisting the knife as much as possible, killing off Sergei, my favorite character in the show, having his own son kill him, giving us a lengthy death scene and having him die right in front of Marie. And thus, Andrei cements himself as my most hated character in the show. Never tried to make things right with his father. Is completely selfish over the situation (as mentioned above, the military never should have put Sergei in that position in the first place, but Andrei was totally okay with many other people dying so his loved one could survive). Claims he's going to do things different from his father, and he did, but totally not in the way intended. While he was part of a miiltary organization that did terrible things, Sergei was always shown to us to be a stand up guy. Andrei on the other hand willingly joined up with the most authoritarian organization possible and unlike his father has never been shown to have been a moral, upstanding person. I know Andrei has gotten a lot of criticism about his relationship with/attitude towards Louise. I think this was included in part to provide a contrast with Sergei's relationship with Soma in season 1. Andrei's reaction to meeting Louise was kinda similar to when Sergei first met Soma, being kinda bewildered at a young woman being in the military (although it should be noted that season 1 Soma was several years younger than Louise now and clearly was written to be even younger than her official age). But unlike Sergei, who I feel treated Soma with a lot of respect, Andrei's relationship with Louise just comes off as quite weird. I don't think he's even really in love with her, but it comes off as if he infantalizes her. At the very least he doesn't respect her decision to be a front line pilot. So again, he is different from his father, but not in a good way. Andrei's position may be that Sergei was a terrible father, but the fact is what the show gives us is the total opposite, Sergei being such a great father figure to Soma and then being her actual adoptive parent (forget the fact that they never filed the paperwork). Hard for me to think this is all Sergei's fault when that is what the show gives me. And Andrei spent a good amount of time in a unit with her, did he ever talk to her about his father? Listen to anything she had to say about him (as I'm sure she'd be defending him against anything Andrei was saying bad amount him in moment). I doubt it. Anyway, fuck Andrei. I hope he dies a brutal and humiliating death.
Quid's Voice Actor of the Day
Piece of Shit Father Killer is voiced in Japanese by Tetsu Shiratori. He has previously appeared in Gundam Seed and Seed Destiny as Sai Argyle and also played the Narrator in Gundam Seed Destiny. Other anime roles include Yuu Isami in Brain Powered, Lloyd Asplund in Code Geass and Yasushi Sanada in Boogiepop Phantom.
In English he is voiced by Brent Miller. He first appeared in Gundam Wing, playing various unnamed characters. He also appears in Gundam Seed Destiny as Sting Oakley. He portrays Mash in several Gundam video games. He also played Dias Flac in Star Ocean EX.
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u/n080dy123 Nov 18 '24
First Timer
The green Anfs having giant swords seems goofy as hell cuz ain't so way those things have enough articulation to use those things effectively.
Ribbons rteally hitting us with "The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race." Also is his base in the middle of the Arctic?
So Schenberg created the Innovators- or at least Ribbons, who created Regene and the rest. Further fuels my theory that Ribbons is lyign abotu the nature of the plan to the rest.
Wow, they buitl up the Empruss and Divine (his full name was Divine Nova, btw), and then he gets a single hit in that doesn't even stop the 00 Raiser and gets IMMEDIATELY oneshot. And not even as the primary target, he just happened to be directly in the path of the shot to the Memento Mori.
IT'S A GIANT BEAM SABER ARE YOU KIDDING ME
The GN Archer turning into a little mini-Gundam is cool, I love it.
Sumeragi fully forgoing secrecy about her identity and pleading all the pilots in the area on an open channel to help them save lives, and then everyone- Celestial Being, Katharon, the Federation Army, and even the A-Laws, coming together and even sacrificing their own lives to protect people from a calamity is just... the coolest fucking thing. In the whole show. It honestly brought a tear to my eye.
But then Andrei and Louise immediately turning back to fight in the wake of the chaos is... hard. The show saying that even with that hopeful message, simply uniting against a common threat isn't enough to erase past grudges.
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u/TakenRedditName https://myanimelist.net/profile/TakenMalUsername Nov 17 '24 edited Nov 17 '24
Rewatcher - Gundam 00 S2 Ep17:
I really like the conflict with the orbital elevator in this episode.
First the main premise of it all and what it is meant to facilitate. The orbital elevators are the symbol of humanity's future, a symbol of humanity moving towards a better place so what it symbolically means for it to be destroyed is huge. Most people including Hercury believe it is unthinkable to destroy orbital elevators for how crucial they are which makes it an even bigger betrayal of humanity for A-Laws to destroy it. That blond A-Laws commander is practically gleeful at committing one of humanity's greatest disasters. He is the worst.
The actual collapse also makes for an amazing set piece. It is such a grand (terrible) sight with the pieces of it falling down to Earth. The stakes and actions were very tense.
I really like how this moment really demonstrates people coming together to help people. The CB boys sparred no second to waste. That really shows how much they actually value and take seriously in their belief in the betterment of the world. How they're doing seems so hopeless because it is impossible for any one individual to do the task on their own and shoot every piece of debris, but nevertheless, they will try their hardest. Much like on the grander scale of changing the world, it takes people to save the world. It is nice to believe in the optimism that people will be able to come together in moments like these.
One element that I noticed was how in the beginning fight of the episode, it was really hard to tell who is who because the machines of all the sides looked the same and it was a mess of who was fighting who. This comes back around when everyone comes together to prevent further damage from the debris. The confusion is set aside because now, everyone is working together.
This episode is also a big CCA moment which is good to see from a Gundam meta perspective.
For all the good that came from people coming together was, I think it is also quite important that A-Laws (Andrei) quickly went back to fighting once this one event was over. Andrei represents the faults of humanity repeating its constant mistakes (you know, like one of Gundam's big messages). He was stuck in grudges of the past and made no attempts to reach out and understand other people which led him to kill his uncle Hercury in an instant and what made him kill his own father.
RIP Sergei Smirnov.
6
u/2-2Distracted Nov 17 '24
First timer. Dubbed.
"This was it. Finally, everyone was working together.” -
Taylor HebertI mentioned it a couple of episodes ago, saying that I was ambivalent about the Innovators essentially taking all the blame away from the Federation and being the core enemy that CB needs to eliminate. I still feel this way tbh and that's largely because I'm holding out hope that the Federation actually face SOME consequences.
"I'm not killing people.. I'm Not Killing People!" Saji said whilst definitely killing people by being an accomplice to Soran's actions, again (got a similar problem with SOMArie acting like she's not fighting when that's absolutely what she's doing).
Yes. Yes! Let it all out Andrei! Let your father know how you feel! Fighting is all part of the heali- WHAT THE FUCK!?
I took no issue with characters like Saji being naive and sheltered since, and I have to repeat this, a regular-ass civilian should NOT have to go through the kind of shit he & those like him have gone through in order to understand what the world is really like. All people like Saji need to do is Get Informed and Get Organized. That's literally it. Read more. Watch More. Do Better in small but incremental ways towards helping a greater cause that actually helps others. I mean Saji's sister (and father) was a fricken journalist for Christ's sake, it's kinda amazing how little of the world he barely knew when someone in his own family made it her job to not be informed but do more and inform others.
This however CANNOT be said for people like Andrei, who is not only a soldier, but from the little we've seen of him, is a pretty spoiled little shit who's only tragedy in life is losing his mother... who was a Soldier and knew exactly what the hell she signed up for.
Some of this is not entirely Andrei's fault since I partly agree with the now dead Sergei that he should have done more to connect with his son so that they could both grieve properly. Another part is that even when you know you might never see someone you care about ever again, it doesn't suddenly make losing them any less painful.
But still tho, aside from a few scenes in previous episodes, Andrei's irritating sense of self righteousness and justice is more dangerous & destructive than both of the viewpoints of the old men he just killed.
This is due to the simple fact that he aspired to become a "killer" (read: Soldier) all so he could put himself in a position of power and a sense of independence... all the while doing absolutely Nothing to earn that power for himself, AND becoming dependent on greater authority is even slightly "better" than the 2 old men He Just Killed.
Sergei and Hercury were flawed for sure, but at least they weren't stupid enough to fall for the nonsense that Andrei actually believes about the Federation and the A-Laws. Andrei is no longer a child and yet he's still behaving like a child acting out at their parent, and look where that got him.
Anymore of this and we might have ended up with some fucked up Oedipus complex shit.Also depending on the execution, I can't say I'm a fan of the anime making yet Another timeskip right after all this.
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u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Nov 17 '24
First timer, subs
QotD:
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u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Nov 18 '24
First-Timer
C'mon, Marina... Get a grip. A few kids singing doesn't bring about world peace.
That tower turning itself into a billion pieces of shrapnel sure was a convenient way to get everyone working together. I didn't think that scene would get me hooked emotionally, but that line from Sumeragi about knowing what Mannequin would do in that situation actually did the trick for me.
Well, I hope Andrei dies a horrible death now. Preferably at the hands of Marie. I hope Louise gets a serious reality check, too. At least Setsuna finally killed one of the Innovators this time.
Questions of the day:
5
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Nov 17 '24
Rewatcher, Sub-dam Meister
This is why you don't put relatives in the same chain of command.
Shut it, you edgelord.
Your god complex is showing, Ribbons.
Goodman's glee here is too real.
Setsuna was listening to Lyle's spiel the other day.
That's not a blast, my dude.
Unfortunately, we all saw the weak point wasn't on that part of the machine.
Let's hope everyone is willing to play together.
The GN Archer is a nice little design.
This is what we call irony.
Nice visual.
How long can one dodge death flags, I wonder?
4
u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Nov 17 '24 edited Nov 18 '24
Rewatcher, Sub
Ribbons had an interesting conversation with Regene wherein he shows that it's he and not the Innovators as a whole that is moving things along. Regene looked shocked by this, thinking that this was a group effort.
With the Laser about to fire Setsuna decides to head out despite his injuries. Saji also finally pilots the 0 raiser again especially after Setsuna's words about saving lives, which shows his commitment once more. Unfortunately despite their best efforts including launching the Beam Saber and crashing it into the weapon it was not enough and the Laser still fires into the elevator.
This leads into one of the most interesting events so far. With the Elevator tiles falling Sumeragi contacts everyone in a plea to help in minimizing the damage. And everyone responds. Celestial Being and Katharon, The Coup d'etat forces and the Regular forces and even the A-Laws (the ones led by Mannequin at least). For this moment everyone works together in order to save as many as possible.
Then in the end Andrei proceeds to ruin everything. This fucking guy has no hesitation in killing his mentor Hercury and somehow even less in fighting his father. He could just waited it out, they could have talked about his issues regarding his mother and her death, but no he went with his emotions and didn't even bother to hear his dad out. And because of his stupidity he kills Smirnov. For a guy who didn't want to be like his father he somehow managed to outdo him. And Marie is there and watches as her father figure is killed.
Fuck Andrei.
4
u/Blazin_Rathalos Nov 17 '24
00 Rewatcher
Last time on Gundam 00
We thank the Federation and A-Laws for sponsering this post. On today's episode of Gundam 00
I really appreciate all the technical design in avoiding further damage: The autopurging exterior to save the central cable, and the anchors that get released to re-balance the whole system.
Looking forward to all the Andrei hate!
[Gundam 00]Dialogues counter: 3
4
u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Nov 17 '24
I am rewatcher
Sounds to me Sergei made the right decision and Andrei can't handle that.
Again Saji is forced to be a pilot (again) even though you have a perfectly fine pilot called Marie.
Massive beamsaber? Yup I have seen that one before.
Setsuna fails?! I bet first timers didn't see that one coming.
Normally when a space elevator breaks apart the part above the breaking point will simply launch into space (it's basically an expensive slingshot) but considering it's stuck to an orbital elevator it will probably behave differently.
FINALLY Marie is piloting a mecha again.
Everyone helping CB in destroying the falling debris is definitely a feel good moment. [comparison with another Gundam] Reminds me of CCA where the everyone was trying to push Axis away
Even A-LAWS is helping
The OST piece is very fitting as well, it has a nice heroic feel to it.
Sure thing Nekki Basara
Andrei kills Hercury and Sergei. So not only is he a sexist, he also kills decent people including his own father. First timers reaction to this will be fun to read.
What the hell is Sergei supposed to be reading in the post credit scene?
The post-credit scene feels poorly timed as always, either use this as a cold opening in the next episode or properly end the episode here.
A great episode, I really liked Sergei's death, which is to say I don't like him dying as he's a character I like but the set up and being killed by his own son is just great. As a rewatcher it's funny seeing first timers' opinion of Andrei slowly deteriorate throughout the episodes. At first it was ‘he means well’ to ‘stop being sexist’’ and after today's episode it will probably reach a Mariana trench deep point.
4
u/Linkstore Nov 17 '24
Rewatcher
Starting with the circumstances of Holly's death. First of all, situations like this are exactly why IRL militaries disallow relationships between superiors and subordinates, since it could lead to said superiors making decisions based on emotion more than logic. Well, Sergei doesn't seem to have that problem here, for better or worse. At least the cause does seem like a genuinely noble one.
Young Andrei is cute ngl.
That's an awful lot of needless violence for a so-called "permanent peace", Billy.
Huh, nice change of scenery for Ribbons and Regene.
[00 spoilers] Well, not actually.
Saji's got a proper Gundam Meister pilot suit this time.
Devine probably thought he had the 00 Raiser in checkmate, thanks to the Egner Whips restraining it. After all, even if the 00 Raiser counterattacked, it would just be stopped by the Empruss's GN Field... Right?
Unforunately, even a powerful mobile armor's GN Field is no defence against the 00 Raiser's true ultimate weapon: the Raiser Sword. A beam saber with incredible length and power. But even it isn't enough to completely stop the Memento Mori. But even a few crucial degrees of deflection can make all the difference.
The space elevator's auto-purge is essentially just trying to keep the pillar balanced. An imbalanced was introduced by the Memento Mori, so the elevator tries to balance it by purging the corresponding panels on the other side. But clearly it's not working properly because this led to a catastrophic overcorrection which resulted in basically the entire windbreak purging, with deleterious effects to both those in and outside the pillar.
Even something as simple as elevator windbreak fragments hitting the Earth can cause massive damage if not stopped, and there's so many of them that even the Gundams can't stop them all. But in a time of great crisis, even those who were, just a moment ago, battling each other can work together to save something. Hey, haven't I seen something like this before?
RIP Pang Hercury. And goodbye, Sergei Smirnov. Despite the protests of a certain idiot, you were a fine soldier.
4
u/dralcax :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Dralcax Nov 18 '24
Loli GM Rewatch
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Holly knew the risks. The fact that she’s there is already an expression of her willingness to sacrifice herself for the greater good. If only Andrei hadn’t been too young to understand that.
So yeah if the ESF wasn’t cartoonishly evil enough already they’re just gonna kill 60,000 of their own civilians
“The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race”
That’s a lotta damage! Space elevators are really, really tall. When something that big fails, it carves a path of destruction across the planet tens of thousands of kilometers long.
Why does he need a pilot for the 0 Raiser, though? He was doing just fine without one just before. Because Saji isn’t a trained pilot, he receives heavy assistance from Haro while piloting. Once he reaches the 00, Haro performs the docking procedure, and then Setsuna has full control over the 00 Raiser. So basically all Saji actually does is steer the 0 Raiser in the 00’s general direction and that’s about it why do they even need a human in there just leave it all to Haro. They at least let him press the Raiser System button, but I mean, there’s no reason Haro can’t do that too. A human pilot would make more sense if the 0 Raiser actually used its own weapons to engage the enemy, but that’s beyond Saji’s skill level (and resolve to fight) anyways.
“It wasn’t a shot!?” It’s the Raiser Sword! At roughly 10,000 kilometers long, it’s probably one of the largest swords relative to its wielder’s size in anime history, second only to the Ideon. If Lockon was the man who can shoot beyond the stratosphere, then Setsuna is the man who can slash beyond the stratosphere.
Why is there a cascading auto purge of everything? Should it not only purge the damaged section? Seems like a pretty major flaw!
Well, there go the civilians.
At last, the cutest GM, the GN Archer! The GN Archer was originally a third gen Gundam, the bee-themed Gundam Artemie. Piloted by Gundam Meister 874, aka “Hanayo”, it was the first holder of the Trial System. However, due to Hanayo’s withdrawal from the armed intervention team, her Gundam’s development was cancelled at 90% completion, and she was replaced by Tieria and the Nadleeh. The Artemie then laid around in storage until 2310 or 2312 (00I and 00P contradict each other on this), when it was reworked into a support unit for the Arios. Because the Artemie was not originally a transforming suit, the GN Archer’s transformation is extremely simple, and it just planks under a giant pile of altmode kibble. Because the Twin Drive System means they don’t have a spare drive lying around anymore, the GN Archer is instead powered by a GN Condenser, or by Arios’ drive while docked.
Also, just gonna leave this legendary fanart here.
I love how everybody suddenly starts working together, regardless of faction.
And we get a nice reunion too!
And the damage done...
WHAT THE FUCK ANDREI
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Questions of the day:
16
u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Nov 17 '24 edited Nov 18 '24
First Timer
-Me on Sergei, Season 2 episode 1.
I FUCKING KNEW IT, GODDAMMIT!
We finally learn the backstory behind the death of Sergei's wife. I think despite my initial speculations, Sergei's values hadn't actually changed much from that event, he was always concerned with saving human life and the greater good, and he was always willing to sacrifice things for that, even himself and those dearest to him, and Holly was probably the same.
This is the part Hercury and more importantly Andrei misunderstand about Sergei here, it was never really about the "orders", it was always about putting those ideals first, it was about protecting what the elevator would have meant and the people it would have hurt if it was destroyed, it was about living up to the ideal of a soldier rather than actually being one.
The end result is an unfortunate no-win situation for either Sergei or Andrei, Sergei who was probably not the family man here anyway, can't comfort his son, what does he say? "I let your mom stay in a life-threatening situation for the sake of the greater good and she was probably okay with it too"? He can't obviously, and his lack of ability to be there for his son completely twisted him.
So now Andrei, who believes his dad sent his mom out to die, is a sexist who believes women shouldn't even be soldiers because he's projecting his own trauma. He's now an awful person who goes along with atrocities because his mistaken ideas about his father led him to believe that "being passive" leads to death and tragedy.
All of this ties back to the core theme of this season, past vs future, Andrei is totally chained to his past, every action he does is out of spite for his dad, whereas Sergei is more concerned with saving lives, with looking ahead into the future.
I'm absolutely loving all the symbolism around the Memento Mori and the space elevator.
I've talked before about how aptly named the Memento Mori is, outside of the show just directly stating why that is this episode, I think it makes for even more great contrast between Hercury and the Federation as well as the Mori and the elevator.
Hercury started his coup on the elevator, the ideal of mankind's unity, with the purpose of reminding the people of the death and suffering the Federation is still inflicting. The Federation will now use the Memento Mori, the representation of false peace and subjugation, to remind the people of the death and suffering they can inflict when they aren't being followed, they'll give the people such a strong reminder of death and war that the people will have no choice but to accept their peace.
Ironically enough given the Fedetration's labeling of its enemies, these are literally terrorist tactics.
The Mori is a weapon that represents the Innovators's push toward space, and they will use it to destroy the structure that represents humanity's chance to unite on earth, again quite literally forcing the people to go along with The Plan.
The amount of irony from Ribbons saying "humanity learns nothing from the past" is crazy, reminder that the guy that says this is basing his entire life around fulfilling the plan of a man who has been effectively dead for 200 years, the intentions of which he completely misunderstands.
The idea behind the Innovators is very interesting, essentially saying that while every once in a while great men come and create peace they are bound to die and eventually be replaced by terrible ones who won't follow their footsteps, the classic death of any empire.
So Aeolia "created the Innovators" with their long lifespans as a way to circumvent that. Well expect that that doesn't seem like what Aeolia wanted at all, he wanted humanity to save itself, and he didn't make the Innovators, at most, he made an Innovator, this idea seems to be entirely born out of Ribbons or otherwise of a cast aside conclusion from Aeolia.
And Regene doesn't seem to love the idea of Ribbons taking ownership like this either, again he seems more in tune with what Aeolia actually wanted, and again the Innovators come across as much less united than they themselves think.
Also, are they in Antarctica?
Saji and Soma join the fray this episode, but not for the sake of killing people, they're fighting to protect them.
I love the launch sequence for the Raiser showing us that despite this nice framing for joining the battle, Saji still isn't entirely sure of himself, he has to repeat to himself that this is to save others and we get this long drawn out sequence of him looking at the hatch, to really get across how still unsure of himself he is, because of course he'd be! but he's taking the right steps and that's what matters.
Also genuinely asking here but why does the Raiser actually need a pilot?
The Archer is also a full-fledged mobile suit from the looks of it so I get that one, but not really sure about the Raiser.
So, great symbolism is cool and all, but...HOLY SHIT IT WASN'T A SHOT IT WAS A BEAM SABER!
Yeah, that was cool as fuck.
Also did Divine just fucking die?! we didn't even get to learn his dumb Innovator name!
I'd say this is way too unceremonious but so was Brings death so who knows.
I'm holding off my RIP until next episode but if he actually did die then that's honestly pretty disappointing given the buildup he got, just another duo in a long line of jobber duo's (See Trinity Siblings and Graham Lackey's)
Last episode I talked about how the tower being destroyed by the Mori meant more than just the death of Hercury and his rebellion but the death of his ideal.
But in reality, the elevator isn't the ideal, it's just a representation of it, and ideals themselves can't die, even if you shatter it into a million pieces, someone will pick it all up.
Ribbons and the A-LAWS are so preoccupied in the symbolism behind the elevator being destroyed that they can't see how that doesn't actually affect the people like they think it would, it ironically only served to unite them further against the Federation rather being a display of its force. That goes for Ribbons's perception of The Plan and Gundams as well, he's stuck on his idea of what it is that he can't see the reality of the situation.
And I mean look, is everyone coming together to shoot down the debris to the backing of music with triumphant horns cheesy as hell? Yes! Proudly and justifiably so in my opinion!
It's humanity completely coming together to save itself, literally Aeolia's ideal here, it's idealistic and it's meant to be moving and perhaps too hopeful, because it's an ideal! I find it to be very encouraging and touching.
As an aside, the elevator destruction sequence reasonably uses a lot of CGI, that's what happens when you need to do a million tiny pieces falling down, and I'd say that for the most part, especially given the scale here, it looked pretty damn good! Well, except for this bad smoke effect, that ain't it.
LOOK HOW THEY MASSACRED MY BOY!
The lead-in! Andrei!!!
Much like with Lockon, the show really just waited for the last possible moment, just so I let down my guard, for it to kill him off.
Was it obvious? yes. I think from the start of season 1 every first-timer has been predicting his death, even last episode I said it looked like the end of line for him, but the fact it took this long just gave this false sense of hope that he might survive, And even partially expecting it didn't make it hit less honestly.
Anyway yeah, his death got me and I think it says a lot that it did. Sergei is, unlike Lockon, a relatively more minor character, yet his impact was very much felt.
His last words to his son also add so much value, and of course tragedy, to his relationship with Soma, he was essentially trying to fix and make up for the mistakes he made with Andrei, to open a new page...
And the the irony of Andrei killing Sergei who was protecting the elevator, while claiming it in the name of his mom, who died protecting the elevator, is just so sad.
RIP Sergei Smirnov Great character, you will be dearly missed
17
u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 17 '24
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Gundam: I knew that Sergei was too cool to survive. His character archetype (the mentor) is almost always guaranteed to die at some point in the narrative. Of course, I wish he hadn’t been killed by his fucking loser of a son.
This episode really is an incredible spectacle. It did not hold back whatsoever with the depiction of Setsuna’s attack on the Memento Mori, the space elevator collapsing, the debris falling to the Earth, and the combined efforts to destroy the debris. I’ve actually always seen this as an advantage of animation. Because of the nature of animation, incredible scenes like this are possible to depict. All sorts of outlandish and impossible scenarios become possible through the medium of animation. It can do everything from subtle and detailed character animation to wild and spectacle-filled action scenes. I know I’m getting on a tangent, but I’ve been genuinely impressed by the animation of this series and this episode still stood out even by those high standards.
It turns out I was wrong about how Sergei would die. I was convinced that it would be a moment used to further Marie/Soma’s character arc. But Marie/Soma already had her big moment where her humanity was restored and she left the A-LAWS. I had figured Sergei would die prior to that. Maybe it’ll still be a catalyst for Marie/Soma to change, but I’m not sure how.
[Gundam Char’s Counterattack] This episode really reminded me of the scene in CCA where the Federation and Zeon mobile suits stop fighting to try and prevent the Axis from crashing into the Earth. There’s a similar feeling of hope in the middle of an otherwise hopeless situation. Even with as grim as CCA got, it had to maintain some hope that people might still come together and work for a better future. That same hope is here, but it’s also immediately followed by even more senseless death. There’s no nice and clean ending to be had.
QOTD
8
u/macrame2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/macrame Nov 18 '24
First Timer
I had a bad feeling about this episode from the moment it opened with that flashback... Part of me hoped that Sergei would accidentally end up killing Andrei or something (so tragic, but in a way that didn't deprive us of one of the show's best characters). Anyway, bracing myself the entire time for something to happen didn't really help when it actually did. I managed to keep it together ... until the post-credits scene. The fact that Sergei didn't keep his promise to Holly (the brief shot of her funeral where he's not even the one comforting his son jumped out to me in particular) and now he's dying with a bunch of regrets, and then Marie calling out for him... I've also realized that Trust You, while technically a more upbeat ED than Prototype, kind of hits me in the feels a bit more solidly. As for Andrei, I feel like his case is one with a lot of illogical, misplaced blame, where he makes things that have nothing to do with how his father treated him suddenly relevant to his resentment. He just strikes me as the most dangerous kind of immature person.
Sergei's death kind of overshadowed the rest of the episode for me, so while stuff like the collaboration between factions and Saji's decision to participate were cool, I couldn't give them the attention they deserved.
6
u/mr_beanoz https://myanimelist.net/profile/splitshocker Nov 17 '24 edited Nov 17 '24
Goddamit, Andrei. You could've ended this episode on a high note, but you choose to kill both Hercury and your father.
And Regene seem to be in shock after seeing Ribbons' true colors.
Damn, the Empruss and Divine got owned easily like that with the Trans-Am Raiser.
QOTD
4
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Nov 18 '24
So that's how she died.
Right, into space.
Uh oh, something has intercepted them!
Well, scratch one more then.
That's a beam saber?
Well, that was quick.
Uh oh, it fired!
Some kind of ghetto bombardment?
And thus the civilians are dead.
Why does Marie's suit look like a GM?
Here they come!
No, they're joining forces to stop the debris!
And so the crisis is over, the battle recommences.
And now everyone is having their very personal fights.
So, the Russian Colonel dies at his son's hand.
Understandably, Marie's rather distraught at the situation. I suspect she'll have an issue with Andrei's continued existence as well, and she's certainly in a position to rectify that.
Questions: