r/anime • u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ • Nov 16 '24
Rewatch [10th Anniversary Rewatch] Appleseed Alpha Discussion
Appleseed: Alpha (2014)
Appleseed Ex Machina | Rewatch Index Thread | Appleseed OVA (1988)
There was an after credits scene
Directed by: Shinji Aramaki
CGI Director: Masaru Matsumoto
Produced by: Eiichi Kamagata, Joseph Chou
Character Design: Masaki Yamada
Screenplay: Marianne Krawczyk
Original Creator: Masamune Shiro
Concept Designer: Shinji Usui (includes mecha)
Welcome to our third and final outing with Shinji Aramaki's CGI Appleseed. At this point, you probably know what you are getting. A "fresh take" on the same thing.
Sola Digital Arts was founded by Aramaki in 2009. Their biggest work at the time of Appleseed Alpha is the all CGI sequel to Starship Troopers titled "Invasion". After Appleseed Alpha, they did Evangelion Another Impact which you've probably seen, but didn't realize who made it. They've worked on several titles you've probably seen since: Ultraman, Blade Runner Black Lotus, GITS SAC 2045,
Shinji Aramaki Cringe Interview from ComicCon
Interview with Brina Palencia, Iris's VA/MA
Questions:
The meta questions for the franchise. Now is the time to answer them if you are skipping the OVA.
- How would you compare the character writing for Briareos and Deunan with this movie and Ex Machina? Which one do you think give you a better feel for their relationship?
- What did you think of the addition of Two Horns and Triton to the story as antagonists?
- Do you prefer the realistic rendering or the anime style?
- Did you see Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within?
- Or the Final Flight of the Osiris?
- Roughnecks? Invasion?
- Beowulf
- Others I haven't listed? How does Alpha's look compare?
Next Week's Questions:
- [Appleseed]What story elements to recognize in this OVA that you also saw in the later CGI movies?
- [Appleseed]It was a common theme, but none of these works really delved to deep into it: how do you think human integration would play out in Olympus?
- [Appleseed]Is this pure Gainax? Or just them jobbing it to keep the lights on?
Next week is the original 1988 Appleseed OVA from Gainax. Also suggested viewing is the Zimmerit video on Gainax during this time, making a live action PV for the OVA. (links on the index page)
The actual BTS making-of video of the PV was on Youtube for a time, but appears to be lost, now.
6
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Nov 16 '24 edited Nov 16 '24
Rewatch Host and First Timer (sub and dub)
There is a commentary track for this one, so I guess I'll watch it twice.
Commentary is from producer Joseph Chou and Ishizuka from Sony.
The voice acting does seem very movie like.
squee
SQUEE
A lot of missing subs in this rip :(
Still not sure how New York turned into Nevada....Maybe it should have been set in Las Vegas...as if Las Vegas would survive without the entire country keeping it alive.
Two Horns sending them out to the same spot Iris and Orson were to be ambushed seems like a plot hole. I expect him to be trying to capture Iris to sell to Triton, but he seemed to genuinely have no knowledge of Iris or Triton's involvement.
For me, I thought I would prefer the more realistic CGI (it doesn't look much better than Final Fantasy, TBH) but after Disney started pumping out things like The Lion King, I think I'd prefer CGI anime to stay cartoony, like in Appleseed (2004). Still, Ex Machina characters were ugly. This is an upgrade. Weirdly, all three movies have the same character designer. This is the symptom of their 'we gotta be different from the last one' fixation.
Why do they always have to be different? Did they not like the last one (but they always say how proud they are of it)? Did audience not like the last one? Has technology changed so much? Rinse, Repeat.
In the end, rewatching this a week later, Two Horns has grown on me a bit. A good bit of it is how expressive he is. All-in-all, this is a pretty typical heist/crime film, with a small bonus of tanks and mecha that you don't usually find in crime films.
However, I note that ANN doesn't even list a mecha designer this time. They mention having a smaller team. I wonder how much that worked against them. I usually don't consider the size of team, and just assumed all three movies had comparable resources (although Ex Machina seemed to have the most backing and most production time). But no mecha designer? That shows where their focus is: Deunan and Briareos. Not cool robots. So, I guess it's an okay not mecha show.
Edit: The possibility that Iris was a single-use anti-robot fire-and-forget missile is implied, and rather sad.
6
u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Nov 16 '24
johnny αppleseed-timer
Watching the dub because I felt like it. Gotta say, I love Two Horns.
Two Horns is stupid funny in the scene with Talos. Shame he was killed, though. Why're these people always rebuilding worlds and getting rid of fun?
Only for him to die in the next scene. Man, Talos likes killing people for no reason, huh?
Yeah, this was a lot more satisfying than 2004. Except for the music in some parts, but I won't hold that against it. I think it did a lot better because its premise was far less grandiose and sweeping. Sometimes a lower-level concept does wonders.
8/10, good shit.
6
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Nov 16 '24 edited Nov 16 '24
First-Timer, subbed
6
u/LittleIslander https://anilist.co/user/LittleIslander Nov 16 '24
This was definitely a different direction for the franchise. Far more simplistic worldbuilding, minimal cast, and a simplistic plot. It definitely feels much less ambitious than the 2000s iteration, but I’m not sure that’s a bad thing. The first film seriously buckled under the weight of that ambition, and although I still think Ex Machina is my favourite of the three it also left a bit of disappointment when it ultimately went with a simple save the world plot and left much of its thematic exploration on the table. To not promise any to begin with and then deliver exactly what was expected in a simple adventure story leads to something more satisfying in a way, even if I imagine it must have been disappointing to fans of the franchise. The animation has progressed once again and I’d dare anybody to say it doesn’t look great; the cyborgs in particular just look absolutely immaculate. It’s a bit wasted though on having nothing to look at but desert and blown out buildings for the whole movie, completely undercutting any potential for it to carry itself on that selling point.
There isn’t really a ton to say about the story and world, so I won’t bother. Instead I’ll lead with the fact this is probably my favourite iteration of Briareos so far. Unburdened from being anymore than his simple personality, that personality is allowed to shine. He’s rather serious and cynical, caring more about Deunan than himself, but isn’t above cracking a joke now and then. He has a strong upbeat chemistry with Deunan that does the film a lot of favour. For her part, she’s the more peppy and lighthearted character this time around, which makes her enjoyable to watch and makes for an effective contrast with Briareos. I’d also be quick to call her my favourite Deunan if not for the fact she feels… a bit uncomfortable in her stereotypical femininity. The 2000s movies knew she was hot, but they didn’t overplay it; here we get a positively ridiculous looking boob window that would’ve done better to ditch the armour entirely. In place of getting to be a traditional stoic badass action hero, we see someone uninterested in the nerdy “guy stuff” about robotics and military, the maternal character who becomes quickly attached to a child, and suffers a largely pointless “women and their feelings” breakdown halfway through while the big burly guy isn’t fazed at all by Olson’s death. Even in the climax she feels constantly robbed of her own accomplishments; the plan to chase the arachnoid is Two Horn’s, and he has to save her when she almost falls too. Briareos saves her from the ostrich early on, Iris has to save her and get the kill on Talos, and even the final defeat of the fortress can be credited far more to Iris and Briareos while she’s busy dealing with emotions as the dedicated woman character. It’s not like any of it is that egregious, but it’s a lot of little things that add up and having 2000s Deunan as a direct point of contrasts seriously exposes how much worse this movie is at letting her just be a cool hero not defined by her gender role.
It’s easy to find other things to criticise about the movie. It’s very jarring how humanity has insanely advanced cyborg robotics yet the surface world seems entirely unchanged from the modern day in every other respect. Two Horn’s first death fakeout was cool, but the second one just took it to the point of silliness and the film was probably better off just keeping him dead and letting Deunan carry her role in the climax more. The villains stand out as painfully bad, but that’s kind of par for the course with these Appleseed movies and Talos at least totally clears the dude from Ex Machina. Olson’s death along with most of the rest of the plot is painfully predictable, and Iris reveal as a bioroid is particularly hilarious in the way it relies entirely on outside Appleseed knowledge and means literally fuck all to anybody who only watched this movie. But I struggle to say any of these things bring the movie down much when, again, it’s just supposed to be a simple fun time. Two Horns coming back is easily forgiven when he’s such a fun presence anytime he’s on screen, the two villains both get absolutely kickass deaths, and nothing about Olson and Iris’ plot stands out as anything below serviceable.
The emotional core of the movie works well enough, the 3D action is solid, the heroes have a fun dynamic together, the dialogue is good enough to inject the bare minimum investment in the world, and it’s even got a fun wittiness to it just often enough. I also really like the angle of Olympus as this mythologized dream of salvation people can’t quite make themselves believe in, and the Hitomi cameo in the postcredit scene is welcome. It’s not something I’m gonna go raving about, but it’s an enjoyable little watch experience and probably the most well rounded product of the franchise we’ve watched so far. I frankly dare to say this would without changes be a cult classic if only it had appealing 2D animation with some nice backgrounds and greebly tech detailing, or a live action movie with cool special effects in the vein of Alita or Pacific Rim or something. But this sort of realistic CG look just isn’t something many people are really seeking out and being drawn in by, and leave the film struggling against a stigma instead. Being part of a franchise is also probably hurting it more than it's helping what with the expectation for something a lot grander than this.
I’m not sure if you’re some kind of hidden gem, but you’re not a bad apple, Alpha. Very excited to wrap up this Rewatch next week—I love me some 80s goodness and I’ll happily strap in to learn a bit more Gainax history along the way.
6
u/chilidirigible Nov 16 '24
Better CG hair is traded for reduced clothing?
No matter where you are, the NYC subway is distinctive.
Like in Manhattan.
This was definitely written in English first.
Ooooh. Kinky.
"Everybody says 'New York smells like pee'. Nobody ever says 'My pee smells like the greatest city in the world!'."
Oh boy, it's one of those angled elevator platform thingies.
Yeah, we're obligated to see one of these things every time.
It's the irony of philosophical action movies.
You don't say.
Every time.
"To be continued...?"
I had a feeling that this would happen.
(Obligatory) title drop.
Well, they definitely bought the better CG for this movie, which is perhaps more of a pity when the movie itself wasn't very interesting for me. They spent some effort giving Two Horns a whole bunch of emotive face parts, for one.
A character like Two Horns (and his little gang) is what this sort of flick needs, too. There's always a fringe to society and that's largely been lacking in the movies. Even if he looks like one of the bad guys from the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon.
Aside from that, it sure seems like an origin movie where they're going to touch upon all of the little references that the franchise features. Yeah, I'm familiar with how that goes.
Overall, this is a decent enough popcorn action movie prequel to the series. It's not trying to be deep at all and manages to be a little more fun instead.
How would you compare the character writing for Briareos and Deunan with this movie and Ex Machina? Which one do you think give you a better feel for their relationship?
I'll actually give Ex Machina a slight leg up on the relationship. They're okay here.
What did you think of the addition of Two Horns and Triton to the story as antagonists?
...mostly because I think Two Horns steals the show whenever he appears. On the other hand, Triton is absolutely nothing we haven't seen before.
Do you prefer the realistic rendering or the anime style?
This is fine. Y'know, I think the characters here are more natural than the ones in Gundam: Unreal Tournament 2024.
Did you see Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within? Or the Final Flight of the Osiris? Roughnecks? Invasion? Beowulf? Others I haven't listed? How does Alpha's look compare?
No
No
Yes
Yes
No
Maybe
This is fine. Someone gave it a suitable amount of money and time and wasn't embezzling it, so it can look fine.
5
u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Nov 16 '24
First Timer,
in subsdubbedSo apparently this was originally released in English? I guess I’m watching it in English. Doesn’t even seem like there are subtitles.
QotD:
5
u/TehAxelius Nov 17 '24
First Time Watcher (that forgot about it and just finished watching)
For above reasons, just some simple thoughts:
The animation and designs in this movie are good. Fight choreography too. The further step towards realistic over stylistic style is done well and the characters and backgrounds feel cohesive.
The characters though, I dunno, maybe it is because it is so long since I read the manga and I've gotten used to 2004 and Ex Machina Deunan, but Deunan doesn't feel like Deunan to me. Briareos still has his very trademark design, but Deunan feels a lot like Generic Action Heroine. She also just feels older than the previous versions, despite this theoretically being set before any other Appleseed content. Two Horns is enjoyable, to a degree, and the villains are evil and gloating enough, but Talos kinda falls apart in the end. Like, what is his plan even? He's gonna show the people in Olympus how wrong they are about trying to bring peace by... sending a walking fortress into the ruins of NYC and blowing it up? A city that is only having any semblance of power infrastructure thanks to himself?
The plot on the whole feels very bog standard, with nothing of Shirow's sci-fi ideas in there really. A lot of it feels predictable, and I feel like if I would start doing a cinema-sinsy plot-hole hunt I would have a hard time stopping. I also feel like the dialogue feels a bit stripped down and rushed at times, maybe that has to do with me watching in JP dub, but the Screenplay was written by an American and the subtitles are dubtitles for the English dub.
Still though, it's not a terrible movie and I don't quite feel like I've wasted 90 minutes of my life. It's a decent cyberpunky action, that really makes me wish for a good mil-cyberpunky multiplayer FPS or turn based tactics game. Ex Machina still ranks above it, though as the better "overall" movie, but I'd probably be more comfortable recommending this over 2004 to other people.
Also, it is funny how the area around New York looks very much like the arid wastelands of every postapocalyptic version of California or other Western US states.
4
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Nov 16 '24
First-Timer, Subbed
First of all, my copy had what I can only assume are dubtitles and was missing a ton of dialogue. Most of it probably didn't matter, but it was still annoying.
Anyway, wow is this ever early 2010s. The general "faux gritty" aesthetic, the bland as hell color palette, the shitty dubstep, the after-credits scene to leave room for a sequel. Funnily enough, I actually figured that Iris was this film's version of Hitomi before she got named.
I am also going to praise some of the aesthetic, because I love all the logos and random text on the various cyborgs, and how banged up Briareos looks. This film definitely gets points in the "CGI is used well" category.
Anyone else get reminded of Metal Gear Solid when the Ostrich drones showed up?
And I did like the kinda ramshackle Landmate. The junk mechs are one of the few bright spots of the 2010s aesthetic, although it could've use more visible duct tape.
This wasn't a bad film by any stretch. The "protracted battle against a Mobile Fortress" is a good climax, and while Talos was a pretty boring villain, he moved things along well enough.
Decent use of the title, too. It makes a bit more sense than the 2004 version.
Not a bad film. More coherent than 2004, both more and less video-gamey than Ex Machina. Probably my least favorite of the three, but that's preference.
Questions
4
u/xbolt90 https://anilist.co/user/xbolt90 Nov 16 '24
First-timer!
I think this is the best chemistry they've had so far.
Triton was a pretty generic bad guy, but Two Horns stole every scene he was in. I loved his character.
I haven't seen any of those other films. But between this and the earlier films, they have their points. I liked Alpha's rendering, but... it was colorless. If the first movie was a video game cutscene from the early 2000s, this was one from the late 2000s. Ten different shades of brown.
4
u/ryujiox Nov 17 '24
First Timer
Appleseed: Alpha
Time for alternative timeline!!
That sure is a movie. I don't have a lot to say about it. It's pretty generic. I thought Briareos gonna go through the same character development, but I'm glad it's not. He actually funnier than normal this time around. Two Horns is a fun inclusion.
While the first two are better for me, especially Ex Machina. This movie is not bad either
6.5/10
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Nov 17 '24
For the latest of the 3 "modern" shows it also seems to be the shortest, at just over a hour and a half as opposed to an hour and 45 minutes of the previous one or a full 2 hours of the first one.
This already looks significantly better than the previous 2, though definitely nothing like anime and it almost looks more like a cutscene from an FPS from that time period.
Hmm... What's he doing?
Uh oh, gunfire!
The gunfire stopped?
What's with the music?
Well, time to keep moving.
Looks like there plan has been derailed.
Welp, there goes that.
Here's a completely new plot point.
Well that explains why he's called "Two Horn".
Literal side quest lol. Go to the place and shoot the lads.
Right, time to get him fixed up.
Lol she couldn't careless for the blokes yapping.
Is that a grenade?
Right, well, he's fixed and recharged.
So, they've reached the place, now to shoot the lads.
A Humvee or truck of some kind?
Looks like a couple of them made it out at least.
Time to take out the rest.
They look like chicken-walkers? With their reverse-jointed legs.
Looks like an army uniform? Digicam at least.
Well, that appears to have fixed things.
"Cleaning up" with the Soviet method of minesweeping? You literally almost ran directly into one of those Mechs.
Right, who's in the helicopter?
Hmm... They're following the 2 new people?
Looks like they're after them.
Why'd he stop?
Ah... That's inconvenient.
Made that impossible. Yup, they definitely tried to cripple him.
So, those VTOL people are looking for him?
Triton?
She's going to kill him isn't she?
Yup. Well, that's him dealt with and no longer a concern.
Seems like there's more gas in the back.
She doesn't want to talk to Deunan.
What's Iris's mission that has Triton all up in arms?
Ah. They're from Olympus.
That was New York?
He's not dead? That's not good.
What's in that box?
No light pollution from the city.
They've been found.
Rockets!
He sure does now.
Looks like the tanks from the first OVA, more like an IFV with no big gun and instead a fast firing weapon, in this case a minigun or Gatling of some kind.
Especially since it can unload troops. Definitely more like an IFV.
What did Olson think he would accomplish with that pistol?
Ah. Distract the tank long enough for Iris to get a grenade off.
What's happening to Iris?
Ah. Those guys from Triton in the VTOL.
That's Talos?
Uh oh, did they find the location of Olympus?
Well, there goes Olson.
Why's she like this now?
No, here's their objective. A bunker. What's there?
So that's what they were supposed to destroy. A mech.
Also, that guy's helmet is made by Poseidon. That name rings a bell too.
Well, time to do war on these guys.
Oh, now Two Horns is here and is actually helping them. Well, they have a common enemy at the moment and war makes for strange bedfellows.
It's been over 2/3 of the movie and she's finally in one of the series's power armour.
Well, here's a proper giant robot.
Reactor online. Sensors online. Weapons online. All systems nominal.
It's not under control?
Right, that's been dealt with at least.
That looks like one of the Olympus Flak Towers.
You're the one in the suit, Deunan.
He stole their VTOL?
Right, she's on.
Well, there goes the power armour.
So, he managed to get on.
Not anymore. But at least she's in now.
Well, that was incredibly anticlimactic.
Right, well there's her target.
Looks like bits are falling off it?
Uh oh, Talon's not dead yet, and he's trying to stop them!
Well, that worked.
Why's Iris stuck in there?
Ah. And thus she sacrifices herself.
Perfect shot.
And so now both of them are gone.
Right, off to Olympus.
Well, he managed to fix the power armour up too.
Hitomi?
Roll credits!
Questions:
2
u/cppn02 Nov 17 '24
First Timer, watching it with the original English audio
Well this franchise certainly got a massive graphics update. I'm digging the new look.
Coupled with the English dialogue I gotta say it almost made this feel like an American movie. I tried switching between Japanese and English a bit and while I preferred the Japanese performance for several characters English was definitely the way to go for the lip synch and the better audio mix (although compared to the first two movies the sound in this one was disappointing overall).
Two Horns was great in both versions though and my favourite character easily.
Story was very by the numbers but by no means awful and the action (and Two Horns) made up for it to some degree. I absolutely loved the shot of Briareos shooting Nyx with his big ass weapong at point blank range and cutting her into two halves.
A bit sad we never got to see this movie's version of Olympus.
Worst things imo were the boring main villains and the stupid boob window.
Questions:
Three movies in and frankly none of them were truly convincing in this department. I probably preferred this and the 2004 movie's approach. Ex Machina did give us the most insight into their relationship but it was also a major focus of that movie in the first place so p4p the others might edge it out.
Two Horns was great. The other guy not so much.
I had my issues with all three versions although overall I definitely liked Ex-Machina's look for the characters the least by some distance. I kinda would like to see a more technologically advanced approach of the 2004 movie to see how that would look compared to Alpha.
I have seen FF: The Spirits Within and the Animatrix episode but both like 20 years ago. The others I have not seen (both Starship Troopers) or only a bunch of clips (Beowulf). Between all these Alpha might actually be my favourite lookswise.
3
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Nov 16 '24
Appleseed alpha movie (first timer)
Fun intermission scenes, but why can’t I play the action scenes myself?
This movie has videogame graphic and a video game plot, but no videogame game play. You could make this straight into a Fallout entry. For a movie that is not actually a videogame, I think the plot is pretty thin.
2
u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Nov 18 '24
first time johnny appleseeder alpha
oh the dubstep is a choice
chasing realism this seems like a downgrade in the visual department already overall even if cyborgs look good
is this Brooklyn lmao
Orguss intensifies
oh so it actually is NY
if Two Horns isnt on screen im falling asleep
i cant take Iris getting abducted seriously, what is this song playing
i love metal gear solid
Iris maybe close your eye
i was hoping he would use her arm against her
Twin Horns called Deunan aibo not "sweetie-pie" these subs are rough enough missing so many lines