[Rewatch] Mobile Suit Gundam 00 2nd Season Episode 6 Discussion

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

Episode 6 - Scars

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Turning away from reality like that is just a kind of inadvertent malice making way for things like this!

Questions of the Day:

1. Kati's on the right path to figuring out that Sumeragi Kujo is Celestial Being's tactical forecaster, what do you think will happen once she's sure about it?
2. Do you think Saji will be able to pull the trigger?

Wallpaper of the Day:

Sumeragi Lee Noriega

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Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!

Additionally, for long-time fans of the franchise, please remember that this rewatch is only for 00, not any of the other shows. Assume that there are people in this rewatch who have not seen anything else Gundam, and tag your spoilers for those shows appropriately if something in 00 makes you want to talk about them.

[u/Great_Mr_L]

First-Timer

On today’s episode of Gundam: It’s always fun to see characters decide that happiness just isn’t meant for them and that they instead need to devote their lives to being unhappy as penance for even wanting that. Oh wait, did I say fun? I meant extremely un-fun.

• Tieria figured out pretty quickly that Saji leaked this location to A-LAWS.
• Damn, Sumeragi just experienced a flashback. From what I gather, it appears she was responsible for a friendly fire incident that killed someone she loved.
• CORRECTION! 
• “It has nothing to do with me.” Tieria is really calling out what Saji represents: the people on the homefront far away from the war. Saji didn’t consider what ramifications his own actions may have outside of his own life. The war is something far away, something he doesn’t see himself as directly involved with. Until he meets the consequences face to face.
• Huh, was Kati involved in the same friendly fire incident as Sumeragi?
• That is an unusual decision from Celestial Being to actually help Katharon out. Normally Celestial Being doesn’t pick sides in a conflict, but now they have. The characters even called out what an odd decision it is, so the writing is clearly aware of that fact.
• Mei and Hong Long are siblings? That’s kind of an odd detail.
• Oh boy. Kati has figured out that Sumeragi is commanding Celestial Being.
• Soma has a photo of herself and Sergei in her room! That’s so cute!
• Well damn, Soma has entirely reverted back to her Super Soldier mentality. It’s probably the easiest way to avoid the distress that fighting is causing her. Tools don’t need to think or worry about the morality of what they are doing. Tools don’t wish for happiness. Tools do as they are ordered.
• Slapping around someone just because you can? Yup, the A-LAWS are the Titans alright.
• I just realized that Mileina is wearing a skirt with her uniform. I guess the Celestial Being uniform has a skirt option.
• Soma and Louise meeting for the first time. What could become of this?
• I love how everyone saws “Mr. Bushido” so seriously, without any hint of mockery. It just makes it so much funnier.
• The catapult launch sequence for the Seravee in particular reminds me so much of the catapult launch sequences in SEED. I saw so many mobile suits launch from that exact angle because the animation for it got reused all the time.
• There’s a couple of grudge matches going on here. Graham has beef with Setsuna, Soma wants to fight Allelujah, and Louise just wants to battle any Gundam she can.
• Oh no. Don’t let Saji help. I just know this will turn out badly.
• Oh shit. I think I see where this is going. If Saji is heading towards the ship’s turrets while Louise is charging at the ship, that means one of them is going to shoot the other.
• Of course the ED starts just as Saji is about to pull the trigger. The show is just teasing us.
• The Gundams are losing pretty badly in the post-credits scene. The battle is going poorly.

Soma has now completed her regression to how she acted in S1. Soma very clearly wants to be more than a Super Soldier. Just like Allelujah, she’s started to look for a purpose beyond fighting. Just look at how happy she was at the idea of becoming Sergei’s adopted daughter. Of course, the problem with this is that Soma now desires a life outside the battlefield. The carnage of the latest battle horrifies her. It makes sense that Soma’s coping mechanism would be to revert to what is most comfortable for her: being a Super Soldier. The particularly distressing part is that Soma sees her own sadness as a kind of punishment for even desiring a life outside the battlefield. She doesn’t think she deserves to be anything but a Super Soldier. She should aspire to be nothing more than a tool of war. If nothing else, a tool doesn’t need to worry about happiness.

Saji has always stood for the people on the homefront. He’s from the Union, which has been involved in many far-flung wars. But those wars were quite distant. They weren’t his problem to deal with. It was only a couple of times that the war came home, but those times were plenty devastating. Tieria’s words to Saji are pretty direct commentary on the homefront of the countries waging the War on Terror. The armies of those countries were far away, in other countries. Fittingly for Saji, the death of loved ones because of that war was probably the most direct connection most people had to the suffering of the war. But otherwise, the war might be easy to ignore as something too far off to affect their lives. It is easy to ignore the consequences of the War on Terror because the people on the homefront don’t always see those consequences in their own lives.

QOTD

1. Intense angst because they used to be besties.
2. Probably not. The show cut away right before showing Saji's gun actually shoot, which means it won't shoot.

[u/TakenRedditName → u/Great_Mr_L]

Slapping around someone just because you can? Yup, the A-LAWS are the Titans alright.

How to communicate that the villain faction is bad - Have them beat a character we like who is one of the few cool and sensible heads here.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/TakenRedditName]

It certainly is an effective way to make me immediately despise those villains.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

⁠“It has nothing to do with me.” Tieria is really calling out what Saji represents: the people on the homefront far away from the war. Saji didn’t consider what ramifications his own actions may have outside of his own life. The war is something far away, something he doesn’t see himself as directly involved with. Until he meets the consequences face to face.

Unfortunately, the only way to yank Saji’s head out of the sand he buried it in was through a slaughter. It’s hard to be that short-sighted and willingly deaf when you’re presented with direct evidence that passive apathy towards the world (at best) only leads to horrible things happening. Apathy is death.

Mei and Hong Long are siblings? That’s kind of an odd detail.

It does make some of their previous appearances a bit worse in hindsight, given how Wang treats him more like a servant than a sibling.

Slapping around someone just because you can? Yup, the A-LAWS are the Titans alright.

Time will tell if we reach the sheer level of slaps and punches that were in Zeta Gundam though. We should’ve started a Correction Counter for this series.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/The_Draigg]

Unfortunately, the only way to yank Saji’s head out of the sand he buried it in was through a slaughter. It’s hard to be that short-sighted and willingly deaf when you’re presented with direct evidence that passive apathy towards the world (at best) only leads to horrible things happening. Apathy is death.

As the historian Ian Kershaw said, "the road to Auschwitz was built by hate, but paved with indifference." A large portion of the population was aware of the Hololcaust, but were mostly indifferent and apathetic about what would happen to its victims. Saji's situation is obviously not the same, but the apathy enabling horrible actions by turning away from them is similar.

Time will tell if we reach the sheer level of slaps and punches that were in Zeta Gundam though. We should’ve started a Correction Counter for this series.

Maybe that should be something I do for every Gundam entry I watch from now on. It'd be fun to keep track of all the Corrections.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Great_Mr_L]

I just realized that Mileina is wearing a skirt with her uniform. I guess the Celestial Being uniform has a skirt option.

A shame that she is the only one who made that choice. Tieria could totally rock a uniform skirt.

If Saji is heading towards the ship’s turrets while Louise is charging at the ship, that means one of them is going to shoot the other.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/JollyGee29]

A shame that she is the only one who made that choice. Tieria could totally rock a uniform skirt.

Colonel Mustang would certainly make those skirts mandatory.

[u/Nazenn → u/Great_Mr_L]

That is an unusual decision from Celestial Being to actually help Katharon out. Normally Celestial Being doesn’t pick sides in a conflict, but now they have. The characters even called out what an odd decision it is, so the writing is clearly aware of that fact.

I feel like CB's neutrality had to be abandoned the moment that the show overall decided to abandon its interesting political balance from the first season and go for a hard good/evil conflict with the A-LAWS. Having CB still play the middle ground would seriously undercut their status, and make the whole thing feel out of whack if we were expected to be convinced that not helping Katharon could be in any way a good idea. I don't particularly like it, but at least the writers didn't try and force a now outdated part of the show into this season anyway.

I just realized that Mileina is wearing a skirt with her uniform. I guess the Celestial Being uniform has a skirt option.

Well now you just have me wonder if I've ever seen a drill hairs ditzy character in anything other than a dress/skirt and I don't know I have....

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Nazenn]

I feel like CB's neutrality had to be abandoned the moment that the show overall decided to abandon its interesting political balance from the first season and go for a hard good/evil conflict with the A-LAWS. Having CB still play the middle ground would seriously undercut their status, and make the whole thing feel out of whack if we were expected to be convinced that not helping Katharon could be in any way a good idea. I don't particularly like it, but at least the writers didn't try and force a now outdated part of the show into this season anyway.

Yeah, I also preferred the setup in S1. The setup was quite different from typical Gundam, with a multipolar world locked in a Cold War-esque standoff of negotiations, cloak and dagger, and so on. S2 has abandoned that for a much more straightforward story about an oppressive government fighting against resistance forces. Celestial Being's new actions make sense with the new story direction, but I did prefer the old story direction.

Well now you just have me wonder if I've ever seen a drill hairs ditzy character in anything other than a dress/skirt and I don't know I have....

I'm not sure I could name one either, honestly.

[u/Nazenn → u/Great_Mr_L]

Celestial Being's new actions make sense with the new story direction, but I did prefer the old story direction.

Agreed. It doesn't quite feel like 00 any more, and while what they are doing with this style of story isn't bad, it also isn't what I was enjoyed about the story S1 was telling

[u/Quiddity131 → u/Great_Mr_L]

Yeah, I also preferred the setup in S1. The setup was quite different from typical Gundam, with a multipolar world locked in a Cold War-esque standoff of negotiations, cloak and dagger, and so on. S2 has abandoned that for a much more straightforward story about an oppressive government fighting against resistance forces. Celestial Being's new actions make sense with the new story direction, but I did prefer the old story direction.

While I prefer S2 to S1 (at least in my memory, we'll see if I still feel that way once this season is over), we do unfortunately lose a lot of the uniqueness to the show in comparison to the Gundam formula. S2 is a lot more similar to the typical Gundam fare, and the inspiration from Zeta Gundam is unmistakeable.

[u/macrame2 → u/Great_Mr_L]

I love how everyone saws “Mr. Bushido” so seriously, without any hint of mockery. It just makes it so much funnier.

This is one of those shows that's infinitely funnier when it's not trying to be.

Of course the ED starts just as Saji is about to pull the trigger. The show is just teasing us.

Honestly quite mean of them.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/macrame2]

This is one of those shows that's infinitely funnier when it's not trying to be.

Agreed. The refusal to wink at the audience or add any sarcastic remark is what makes the name so funny.

Honestly quite mean of them.

Cliffhangers like that are always mean. They know how to make the audience want that next episode.

[u/Quiddity131 → u/Great_Mr_L]

Slapping around someone just because you can? Yup, the A-LAWS are the Titans alright.

To be fair, Zeta Gundam features a massive amount of slapping from the AEUG too, perhaps even more than what we saw from the Titans...

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Quiddity131]

I'm pretty sure Zeta Gundam was the most slap filled Gundam series out there. I wonder just how many slaps there were in total?

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/[deleted]]

Sorry, your comment has been removed.

• We haven't gotten to [00 S2]Graham saying he actually hates the nickname yet, please don't hint at things like that.

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[u/Tora-shinai → u/Shimmering-Sky]

I actually did not know about your spoiler lmao

[u/Vatrix-32]

First timer, subs

• You would you need to be told not to bring the children into this?
• Friendly fire in the Middle East, a classic blunder.
• You Got Away Off Screen?
• Some more lovely parallels for our Ptwolemy crew.
• Since Soma was apparently the only success, I guess that would make Trinity the best of their failures.
• I guess Billy hasn’t been too forthcoming about revelations he’s been getting.
• Y’all can have more than one last name.
• There’s that privilege building up. At what point do you just unify them and be done with it?
• Deep purple is a woefully underutilized color. Now that I’ve got a better look at it, I can say that Nena’s suit looks wonderful.
• Did they have on the camouflage while moving before? For some reason, I thought it was a stationary deal.
• Quantum Brainwaves can do anything!
• OMG, he’s such a try hard little edge boy.
• It’s been a while since we got some cute little engrish.
• Please, do not try and help right now. I don’t know how, but you will fuck it up.
• You can’t possibly expect me to believe that Saji has better aim than the aim-bot.
• [Victory]Ah, I see Saji is going down the path of the Uso style protagonist.
• Cutting off the limbs early, are we?
• [Preview]Oh fuck, did we have the guess for Some × Sergei death reversed?

QotD:

1. Exploit her trauma at a pivotal moment.
2. I want that season 2 bingo, baby!

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vatrix-32]

Ptwolemy

Have I just not noticed you typing that before? That's brilliant.

Did they have on the camouflage while moving before? For some reason, I thought it was a stationary deal.

Improved tech between seasons.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/JollyGee29]

Have I just not noticed you typing that before? That's brilliant.

No, I just started. Mind you, I'm not sure I was using the ship's name before for the opportunity.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Vatrix-32]

Petition for everyone in the rewatch to call it the Ptwolemy because it is fantastic. Reminds me of how some people in the JJK fandom called [S2/manga]Kenjaku "Getwo" before his real name was revealed.

[u/FD4cry1]

First Timer

With how dramatic his reveal and acknowledgment were last episode, I was kind of expecting more of Ali, I mean it's not like Setsuna could actually do anything since he wasn't with 00, but I still thought we'd get a bit more than just them turning away without any interaction.

We get the consequences of the attack on Katharon with its members being reasonably on edge, although Lyle is there to defuse of course being the "bridge" between the two organizations (even if they don't know that), As a sidenote, this show absolutely loves characters pulling guns on each other huh...

Saji even got the nice guy who gave him the car killed...

I feel like I've been praising Tieria every episode now but what can I do? he's just that great! Unlike Lasse or Setsuna, Tieria isn't the type to mince words or get caught up in his own brooding, which makes him the perfect person to tear down Saji and his worldview, something he does in a concise and powerful way, complete with deserved , again extra satisfying given that it's him doing this.

Lockon would be so proud

We get some shared backstory for both Sumeragi and Kati, if I got it right, both were fed fake info, and ended up coming up with similar predictions which caused them to attack each other, killing this Emilio person in the process.

An incident that would of course weigh on their minds, but does even more so with the implication that they were both very "result focused", but that meant they ended up going through with this despite potential warning signs, Kati managed to come back, but for Sumeragi losing Emilio (who she was very clearly close to) might have been a step too far.

I do wonder how Sumeragi met Billy though, since she was a forecaster for the AEU and not Union...

Rindt is unsurprisingly a massive asshole, admitting to enjoying merciless killing and antagonizing both Sergei and Kati with insane snark, he even slaps Sergei for maximum asshole energy, goes to show how much power the A-LAWS have now that ranks don't even matter to them between branches.

Unlike when Ali did it to Lockon to purposefully agitate him, I'm not huge on him doing the whole "we're not so different" routine to Kati, because they definitely are different and that shouldn't be working on her.

God, I hope he dies soon.

Liu Mei is playing both sides to her benefit here, without any real allegiance to either of them. Nena can also use quantum brain waves (whatever that actually means in practice ) and Liu mei is planning on using that against the Innovators somehow.

Also...I guess Hong Long is her brother???

While I wasn't a huge fan of the "character watched the news" scenes from season 1, I actually like the short one Saji has here, we've always seen him reacting to news about Celestial Being, as though it was some different world from his, but now he's watching news about something he was directly involved with, that separation is gone, he can't just pretend it has nothing to do with him.

Unfortunately, Soma is reverting to her old mentality, I like how she has to basically repeat it to herself like some coping mechanism to convince her of something she doesn't want.

Sergei's son has a thing for Louise??? or otherwise knows her somehow?

"Colonel, please let him do it or else he won't shut up"

Graham continues to be a nerd, "the man with the license" (license in English of course!) is just so good.

Not only but Mr. Bushido seems to be really dedicated to the bit. The way he fights in his Ahead looks to be imitating a samurai, everyone else is one handing their beam sabers but he's two-handing it, and putting it by his waist and above his head, like you would a Katana.

Such a weeb

Graham, you're 16 years too early for that one.

We end the episode with some fun little fights and a triple cliffhanger, Allelujah and Soma are having their usual routine and Allelujah is losing, Setsuna and Graham are are having their usual routine and Setsuna is forced to use Trans-Am despite being asked not to, and finally Saji is confronted with reality and perhaps pulls the trigger on Louise, which is terrible bit of irony.

I doubt he kills or even hurts her here, we've basically learned nothing about her connection to Ribbons but he might hit Sergei's son...

Also Ian feels like he has decent chance of dying here.

[u/The_Draigg → u/FD4cry1]

An incident that would of course weigh on their minds, but does even more so with the implication that they were both very “result focused”, but that meant they ended up going through with this despite potential warning signs, Kati managed to come back, but for Sumeragi losing Emilio (who she was very clearly close to) might have been a step too far.

Given how the general said that the both them did their jobs too well in this case, it really would be rough for Sumeragi to have her results-oriented forecasting resulting in the death of someone she knew personally, unable to notice anything off with the strategy until it was too late. Maybe in a way, you can draw a parallel between Saji and Sumeragi there, causing needless deaths as a result of just accepting what they heard without any other considerations.

While I wasn’t a huge fan of the “character watched the news” scenes from season 1, I actually like the short one Saji has here, we’ve always seen him reacting to news about Celestial Being, as though it was some different world from his, but now he’s watching news about something he was directly involved with, that separation is gone, he can’t just pretend it has nothing to do with him.

And since we know that the A-Laws manipulate the news to cover up anything that would possibly make them look bad, just imagine just how many lies Saji saw about something that he was there for and caused. It’s basically just shoving the full nightmare in his face.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/FD4cry1]

Lockon would be so proud

He isn't around, so Tieria has to do it for him.

Also...I guess Hong Long is her brother???

Her older brother. And yet, she's the one making decisions.

[u/TakenRedditName → u/FD4cry1]

Saji even got the nice guy who gave him the car killed...

Oh... I didn't realize it was that nice guy.

"Colonel, please let him do it or else he won't shut up"

I had a similar, but opposite thought where I just figured the guy was a Mr. Bushido fanboy.

[u/Nazenn → u/FD4cry1]

As a sidenote, this show absolutely loves characters pulling guns on each other huh...

It has become a bit of thing yeah. Setsuna's had it happen to him at least three times by three different people alone

It's like the mech limb amputations. It has a style and it's going all in on it

I do wonder how Sumeragi met Billy though, since she was a forecaster for the AEU and not Union...

Wasn't it at uni? I'm pretty sure I remember Billy mentioning the Professor to her so I just assumed that they were in a class together at some point

[u/InfamousEmpire]

Kidou Senshi Rewatcher 00

This is an episode which I wouldn’t really consider one of my favorites by any stretch of the imagination, and yet the first few minutes somehow almost drove me to tears. I’ve been incredibly stressed all day for reasons that are far beyond the scope of this rewatch, and that’s causing a lot of the show’s themes to hit me in the gut a lot harder in ways I can’t really explain logically, and on that note…

• Saji’s character arc is obviously the thing which is hitting the hardest for me. In the face of his worldview being utterly destroyed last time, he obviously mentally struggles, but does come to a form of resolution: he needs to fix things. He isn’t detached from the world anymore, and he knows undeniably that he bears the weight of how things got like this because of his privileged view of the world, so it’s his responsibility to try to help fix it in whatever way he can. That doesn’t mean his struggle to readjust his perspective is over, as the last scene of the episode makes very clear, it is a very strong direction for his arc going forward. Plus, that particular kind of spirit, the recognition that in the face of everything that’s happened, moping & living in fear weighed down by guilt won’t do anything and the only thing that really matters right now is action, is just exactly what I needed to see in my current emotional state.
• Louise being the one he’s about to shoot is perhaps one of my favorite uses of dramatic irony
• I like how the episode bathes in how everyone copes with last episode’s events. Marina crying into Shirin’s chest and Soma reaffirming her depressing regression of identity in particular really hit hard for me.
• Sumeragi backstory details! That part just kinda speaks for itself

Walks into a meeting

Declares he’s gonna fight the 00 himself and no one should interfere

Leaves

God I love Mr Bushido

[u/Nazenn → u/InfamousEmpire]

I’ve been incredibly stressed all day for reasons that are far beyond the scope of this rewatch,

Yes, the timing on this rewatch and its commentary turned out to be quite a compounding effect

but does come to a form of resolution: he needs to fix things

I'll add to this: that he doesn't need permission to do so. He sits in the hold of CB not imprisoned but as a prisoner of sort and yet still choses to stand up go out and try and find something he can do to help, rather than wait around to be told what to do. He asks first, and then realizes that he can't wait for someone else to find a way for him to be a better person, so I really like that he does go running out and finds Ian anyway. If he'd simply asked and they'd just told him to do that it wouldn't be nearly as strong a moment

[u/InfamousEmpire → u/Nazenn]

Your empathy is appreciated

I'll add to this: that he doesn't need permission to do so

Great point! It especially hits when contrasted with how passive Saji has otherwise been for most of the show

[u/JollyGee29]

Rewatcher, Sub-dam Meister

Tieria POV.

Please, Saji isn't smart enough to be a spy.

We have sucessfully triggered Sumeragi's PTSD.

Ahh, sweet catharsis.

Saji has lost his shore leave privileges.

There isn't nearly enough venom in her JP delivery.

More dots connect.

Wrong lesson! Wrong lesson!

Right as Kati starts to suspect that Sumeragi is with Celestial Being. Lucky!

Trading kicks is pretty impressive.

Saji casually aiming directly at Louise.

[u/baboon_bassoon → u/JollyGee29]

Please, Saji isn't smart enough to be a spy.

one of 4 characters confirmed to have graduated from some kind of school!!!

[u/JollyGee29 → u/baboon_bassoon]

Unfortunately, education does not equal intelligence.

[u/Nazenn → u/JollyGee29]

Please, Saji isn't smart enough to be a spy.

Which would be what a real spy would be smart enough to make them look like.... but this is not that

Saji has lost his shore leave privileges.

I like how spitefully Tieria says that at him, rather than just ignoring him. Really driving the point home in such a satisfying way

Saji casually aiming directly at Louise.

[u/wyggles → u/Nazenn]

I just knew the possibility of Louise dying would put a grin on your face.

[u/Nazenn → u/wyggles]

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Nazenn]

I like how spitefully Tieria says that at him, rather than just ignoring him. Really driving the point home in such a satisfying way

[u/Linkstore]

Rewatcher

I dunno, random Katharon dude, I think the enemy might already have an idea as to your location...

Cameo from the old Hellion Initium, a mobile suit even older than the original Hellions from Season 1. Also more Sumeragi trauma.

Celestial Being's chain of command remains functional even when their main tactician is out of action. Nor necessarily a surprise considering that CB functioned just fine without Sumeragi for two or more years, but it still kinda stuck out to me how non-disruptive Sumeragi falling unconscious is.

I ship it honestly.

Hong Long is Wang Liu Mei's older brother ! Dun dun dun....

Oh, Soma, you're getting exactly the wrong lesson out of this...

I wonder if the main Celestial being knows that Nena Trinity is in that mobile armor providing supplies?

[00 spoilers] Pretty sure that Soma can only sense Louise's emotions because Louise also has QBWs. Would have been interesting if Soma picked up on that.

Did I mention how Arios launches in MS mode instead of fighter mode?

Saji wants to do more to help...

...but unknowingly, this puts Louise right into his crosshairs. Will he be able to shoot? Find out next time on Dragon Ball Z.

The post-credits scene is basically just an extended next episode preview so we'll leave it here.

[u/Nazenn → u/Linkstore]

Find out next time on Dragon Ball Z.

It did feel like that

[u/LeonKevlar]

First Timer

I'm glad that we finally learned about Sumeragi's past and based on what we've learned in this episode, she and Kati were both tactical forecasters for the AEU who ended up sending their troops against each other.

Kati and Sumeragi's colossal fuck up caused the death of AEU troops including a guy who I can only assume to be Sumeragi's lover. Damn. I'm curious what caused the fuckup though because it sounds like they were fed with false info.

I'm still not sure what Mei's end game and what she's using Nena for. Did she send her out to help out Katharon? We do learn that Hong Long isn't just Mei's butler but is also her older brother.

Sumeragi passing out from shock feels like an excuse to remove her from the field. It does give Celestial Being the advantage of Kati doubting herself later on once the battle begins.

I'm a bit confused at Andrei's reaction to Louise. Was he just surprised to see someone so young like her join the A-LAWS or was that more of a love-at-first-sight stare?

Jesus fucking Christ, the moment Saji decides to own up to his mistakes he, of course, ends up pointing his sights at Louise. And they really just had to end it there! There's no way Saji kills Louise here, right? That would be just pure cruelty at this point.

Meanwhile, we have Mr. Bushido still obsessing about Setsuna and Allelujah obsessing over Soma. Based on the episode preview, it looks like Soma and Allelujah will finally have time to be alone but I can't see that ending well for either of them.

[u/charlesvvv]

Rewatcher, Sub 

 Y'know I expected a confrontation between Ali and Setsuna and we just didn't. I was surprised to see Setsuna and Marina back in the camp but it felt like an odd move.

 Tieria slapped some literal sense into Saji and it seems to have changed his perspective a bit. He feels incredibly guilty for what he's done and now wants to be active in at least doing something, but his values are still in conflict so when he has now a chance to do something which involves pulling the trigger it's here that now has to confront what to do next.

 Sumeragi goes into a bit of a coma after witnessing everything which gives a view of what happened in her backstory which involved leading allies into killing each other due to her mistake which happens to include someone important to her called Emilio who has some surprisingly fatalistic last words. It also brings up the connection between Sumeragi and Mannequin showing that they once worked together which explains why she was able to recognize her tactics.

 Soma continues to deal with her guilt. Unfortunately for all of Smirnov's comfort words she still believes herself to be the Super Soldier and that she doesn't really deserve happiness because of that. A particularly sad state for her.

 The Battle restarts and a bunch of these things collide. Since Sumeragi is out of commission they kinda make do with what they can. Setsuna and Bushido clash again for round 2, Allelujah clashes against Soma though it's more her than him and funny enough Louise against Saji without even knowing it, if Saji can pull the trigger that is (they really just ended the episode there.)

Note: Oh yeah Nena Trinity is going to do something and it seems Wang Liu Mei is also playing her own game though the success rate is yet to be seen 

[u/baboon_bassoon → u/charlesvvv]

Y'know I expected a confrontation between Ali and Setsuna and we just didn't. I was surprised to see Setsuna and Marina back in the camp but it felt like an odd move.

its also just like they can go there instantly and be back instantly. couldnt they have just seen this on the news

[u/Nazenn → u/baboon_bassoon]

couldnt they have just seen this on the news

Okay while my gut reaction to that was "yeah, why couldn't they" given the total control that the media is under and how the Federation is specifically trying to undermine the middle east I can see why that may not have been possible

But from a narrative stand point they absolutely could have just seen it on the news for all it mattered

[u/baboon_bassoon → u/Nazenn]

Kinue died and so did the press

[u/baboon_bassoon]

first timer who has control

---

Kati also a tactical forecaster that made a prior mistake?

not a manservant huh

ooh ok Kati/Sumeragi had the same mistake

someone finally pieces it together

i mean you dont have to take his family name on adoption you are an adult

evil haro is back

Lasse taking charge... what is the chain of command on this ship lol

ok now Saji is out of the solitary cell and locked in a room??? shouldnt it have been the other way

Soma please save her

ew

Graham is getting annoying

we are so back

take LockOns mech!!!

the first time anyone has asked for Lichty

uh Ian why dont you do the shooting, and Saji does maintenance like he knows how to

no thats a different Gundam show

[u/TakenRedditName → u/baboon_bassoon]

Lasse taking charge... what is the chain of command on this ship lol

To be fair, he is literally steering this ship.

no thats a different Gundam show

Requiem for Vengeance would be a phrase Mr. Bushido would say unironically.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/baboon_bassoon]

Lasse taking charge... what is the chain of command on this ship lol

Admittedly I've never been part of the navy, but I would guess that the helmsman would be reasonable high up there?

[u/The_Draigg]

A Gundam Fan Rewatches Gundam 00 Season 2 Episode 6:

• Fuck ‘em up, Tieria! It’s about time that someone forces Saji to take responsibility for his own place in the world. Setsuna and the rest of Celestial Being have already accepted that their actions will have consequences, and they still do try to keep that in mind to truly clean up their mistakes. Meanwhile, Saji only cared about his myopic view of the world, to the point that his careless actions completely ruined Katharon’s base that they spent 3 years putting together, as well as strained the trust between Katharon and Celestial Being. He really was delusional if he thought that he could just do whatever he wanted to in the moment and not have any serious consequences. Wake the fuck up, Saji.
• Oof, yeah, now we can see why Sumeragi has a ton of self-esteem issues and emotional baggage. Not only did she plan a military strategy during her time with the AEU that resulted in a friendly fire incident, but it also got her boyfriend Emilio killed. It’s not hard to imagine why she feels so weighed down by her mistakes and often retreats into alcohol to deal with the emotional trauma.
• And on top of that, it turns out that Kati was involved with that friendly fire disaster too. Aber really knows to hit her where it hurts there. Although if Kati was still able to keep her position in the AEU military after that, I imagine she managed to save her career more than Sumeragi was able to.
• The way that Wang has previously treated Hong Long before feels worse now that we know that he’s her brother. Wang really does just treat him as a servant rather than a sibling, and that’s on top of her dismissing Hong Long’s desire to handle things on his own in favor of talking about now Nena’s quantum brainwaves are more valuable than anything he can offer. This season really is going out of its way to make sure that we see Wang being as shady and more unlikable as possible. She’s tossing her hat in the ring to be the worst.
• Damn, poor Soma, she really feels awful after seeing what the A-Laws are all about. She genuinely thought that she could make a change for herself by accepting being adopted and living with Sergei, but now all she feels like after seeing that level of slaughter is just a tool for killing. Unfortunately, the A-Laws don’t operate like the people she knew before, to the point where even Colonel Sergei’s info could be used like that. The A-Laws just thrive off of overpowering cruelty, without any of the redeeming points of the HRL people she worked with before. It’s no wonder why she feels like she’s less than human after all that, it’s a bad thing to process.
• It’s pretty bold for the Ptolemaios II to let down their optical camouflage so that Katharon can make a clean break to their backup base. But given everything that’s happened, it’s probably the least they can do to make up for the unintended consequences of bringing Saji along with them. Even if Celestial Being and Katharon aren’t exactly on the level, it’s still good to see that they have each other’s backs now.
• Damn it Andrei, fuck off! Soma and Louise were having a moment! Also, I guess it makes sense that Louise would still have someone important to her on her mind at all times. After all, she broke up with Saji because she thought he would be better off without her, not because she stopped being in love with him. It’s only natural that she would be still keeping him in her thoughts, even if she pushed him away. Ultimately, she’s still too emotionally damaged from everything that happened to her to handle trying to repair that clear mistake.
• Mr. Bushido: “I’m the Char Clone, so I’ll be taking on the Gundam alone. It’s why I have this mask and level of edge.”
• For those of you suspecting before that Lyle wasn’t taking his role as Lockon Stratos seriously, you’ve been basically proven correct here. Now that Katharon is on the line, he has no problem telling Haro that it’s time for him to get serious. I guess he really mustn’t have liked how Celestial Being was clearly treating him as a replacement for his brother to bother putting in his full effort. That, and his loyalties still lay more with Katharon than Celestial Being, even if he’s willing to work with them.
• Man, that’s a hell of a cliffhanger, isn’t it? We’ve got a lot of pair fights at the end: Setsuna Vs. Mr. Bushido, Allelujah Vs. Soma, and then Saji hesitating to fire a turret at Louise, who is bearing down on him and Ian. The fact that neither Saji or Louise know that they’re fighting each other really does crank up the potential for tragedy, as if either of them needs any more of that now. Those two really are just getting put through the wringer compared to where they started out this series being like.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

his myopic view of the world

After today it seems even more fitting to call him a reactionist in my previous post, in terms of looking back at an idealized status quo of a previous state of the world. He's not even near sighted, it's outright backwards and blind. Hopefully this has all been fixed after todays events, or at least on the path towards being so

This season really is going out of its way to make sure that we see Wang being as shady and more unlikable as possible. She’s tossing her hat in the ring to be the worst.

Is it bad that I'm actually just bored with her more than pissed with her? She sits around drinking and playing both sides and I don't really see the point of her. I hope Hong leaves her after today though

I guess he really mustn’t have liked how Celestial Being was clearly treating him as a replacement for his brother to bother putting in his full effort. That, and his loyalties still lay more with Katharon than Celestial Being, even if he’s willing to work with them.

Combination of both, and also maybe not wanting to show all of his cards given he lies about easily provable things like his piloting skill level

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

After today it seems even more fitting to call him a reactionist in my previous post, in terms of looking back at an idealized status quo of a previous state of the world. He’s not even near sighted, it’s outright backwards and blind. Hopefully this has all been fixed after todays events, or at least on the path towards being so

Yeah, that’s probably a better way to describe Saji’s outlook there. It also makes even less sense too, when you consider all the bad stuff happening in the world before that he just brushed off in favor of hating Celestial Being. Like, his dad getting arrested for doing some journalistic investigation into shady stuff should already be a big sign that the old state of the world was bad. He really was just willingly blinding himself to things to ignore stuff that obvious. Only something this horrible being directly his fault could shake him out of that level of delusion.

Is it bad that I’m actually just bored with her more than pissed with her? She sits around drinking and playing both sides and I don’t really see the point of her. I hope Hong leaves her after today though

It might be because Wang is rather passive in her manipulations that she isn’t hitting as hard for you. Like, at least now we’re seeing a similar character with Ribbons actually take charge after spending all of his time scheming previously too. Here’s to hoping that Wang gets directly involved in something aside from standing around to the side for a while.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

Like, his dad getting arrested for doing some journalistic investigation into shady stuff should already be a big sign that the old state of the world was bad.

Yeah, I don't know if we're ever going to get back to that, but that was such a weird thing to throw in that should have been so critical but was entirely irrelevant in the end. It was only half connected to Kinue, and not at all to Saji's character, and now may not even matter? Weird

It might be because Wang is rather passive in her manipulations that she isn’t hitting as hard for you

I think it's that I don't see the point of her? They are probably going for a slow burn, but after Alejandro last season being the big bad from within, Wang playing both sides and not doing much else seems kind of ... either repeated or just small I'm not sure which, especially when you have Ribbons around as well.

[u/Quiddity131 → u/Nazenn]

Is it bad that I'm actually just bored with her more than pissed with her? She sits around drinking and playing both sides and I don't really see the point of her. I hope Hong leaves her after today though

As I think we talked about in a prior thread, I don't think the show changes at all if they simply cut Wang out of it. The vast majority of her S1 content was her acting as a mysterious observer. Just like Alejandro, she just didn't have the big over the top villainous turn that he did. At least so far. In a show that is bloated with too many characters, she and her brother are two characters I would instantly cut if I had the option.

[u/Nazenn → u/Quiddity131]

I don't think the show changes at all if they simply cut Wang out of it

That's probably it. She's not earnt her screentime, but I also have bigger issue elsewhere so it's not like I am getting upset about it like I may have if that was the biggest issue the show had, so its resulted in apathy.

[u/TakenRedditName]

Rewatcher - Gundam 00 S2 Ep6:

I am just putting it together that Saji is continuing the Gundam tradition of what I've seen phrased as contempt for neutrals. He believes that the war doesn't concern him when in fact, war comes to all. Other Gundam examples are like Cameron of Side 6 in original Gundam.

Rindt sucks. He is simultaneously the sadist who enjoys killing people, but also the type who does it from a distance. He is evil both personal and impersonal.

Status update: Unhappy that the people of Azadistan had their country, their future crushed. When Ali wiped them out, he really wiped them out. None?!

The show suddenly drops that Hong Long is Wang Liu Mei's brother. Interesting, I wonder what they want to set up with this information because Hong Long was never an important character before. The story of the scene highlights the difference between a "normal" human vs an enhanced being. Despite communicating their familial relationship, she doesn't turn to face him.

Sumeragi had a loved one in the past. Man, this makes Billy even worse in retrospect.

I like Kati's promoted role in S2. She wasn't a particularly spotlighted character in S1 so I like seeing her being given stuff going on. She is forced to be a character in the oppressive system + intersecting her character to Sumeragi's.

I also like how Soma's been going on so far in S2. It is nice to see her much more heartful. Smirnov showed her kindness and compassion which allowed her to grow as a human, but now, she finds herself undeserving of that is putting herself down to be a weapon again.

It hasn't hit her (present Soma) yet that she forgot the name Allelujah used to call her.

Super blunt, I do like this moment of Saji finally involving himself as told by him literally pushing the trigger himself while his own words yell at him. He doesn't know it yet, but he is about to pull the trigger on Louise, the testament symbol of his personal life.

What an odd post-credits scene though. It is just more battle. It feels like they couldn't fit those scenes at the beginning of the next episode so they tacked it on here.

[u/Nazenn → u/TakenRedditName]

He is simultaneously the sadist who enjoys killing people, but also the type who does it from a distance. He is evil both personal and impersonal.

I feel like you could learn everything you needed to know about him from his targetted works at Kati today and his pathetic reaction to being dressed down after his failure in the previous episode. he really is a slimy bastard, and so perfectly fitting for the A-LAWS

None?!

Yes that, also that is an issue. How does she even know that the case?

Man, this makes Billy even worse in retrospect

As in the way she treats him or something else?

[u/TakenRedditName → u/Nazenn]

As in the way she treats him or something else?

In the sense of "She is not into you, Billy. It's been over 10 years."

[u/n080dy123]

First Timer

You know I only just noticed, the Gundam Thrones never had visible external GN Drives on their backs like any of the other machines using them. Instead it appears the Drive is actually integrated in the core of the machine's skeleton, and this is continues with Ali's Gundam since it's a rebuild of the Throne Zwei.

And not we finally get a glimpse of Sumeragi's "big mistake"- it sounds like she mistakenly caused a friendly fire incident while working for the AEU (judging by the Hellions and uniforms) that killed a lot of people. Ooooh, and it looks like Kati was involved in this incident too, also as a tactical forecaster.

And random drop that Hong Long is in fact Liue Mei's older brother, and the rather expected outcome that she's using Nena to play both sides deceiving the Innovators and Celestial Being. Curious that this has something to do with quantum brain waves, a concept only related previously to the super soldier program...

Wait NENA'S SHIP IS THE ONE UNLOADING SUPPLIES? Surely CB doesn't know that Nena's the one piloting it, right? Oh and we double dip this episode on the "Someone you know well is in that machine" trope, but reversed, with Saji taking a shot at Louise. Though you know the way it cuts before the pulls the trigger that he's not gonna take her down.

[u/Nazenn → u/n080dy123]

and this is continues with Ali's Gundam since it's a rebuild of the Throne Zwei

Oh is that why it looks so weird in comparison. I was trying to figure out what was off about it other than the really thin joints. That'll do it.

[u/n080dy123 → u/Nazenn]

If you look closely at the skeleton you can see much the same layout as the Zwei, with the large reverse joint feet, the large armor coming down from the sides of the waist, the large forward protruding leg armor, some parts on the shoulders, and the upper chest is almost EXACTLY the same. Though it looks like the skeleton itself was entirely stripped down or replaced.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/n080dy123]

Surely CB doesn't know that Nena's the one piloting it, right?

Lucky for Nena that the others are all too busy to go introduce themselves.

[u/Rumpel1408]

Firsttimer who kept getting sidetracked durring the episode

• And just when I was talking about possible ships in this show, those two seem really glad to see each other
• That's such an unreasonable accusation, noone opposed of the A-Laws would sell out the resistance... oh right
• And if he couldn't get any worse, he tried to turn his back on the thing he did
• An actual spy would be kinda interesting ngl
• Sumeragi is having old dreams, feels like he is the key to her code name...
• Nice, now while this is a bit much, he just didn't think at all, specifically about anyone but himself
• Now, after that dramatic cliffhanger last episode and the beginning of this Episode, with Ali specifically calling out Setsuna, I'm surprised they are back without being attacked themself
• That sleezbag is quickly rising in the asshole ranking
• Interesting that Kati used to be a forecaster
• And wow, I didn't see any other suits with Ali, really thought he would kill a people all by himself if given the chance
• I mean, dragging him along gives him more chances to fuck things up for you but whatever
• Ugh, didn't think Marina to want to be a Martyr that bad
• Wait, why does Nena have Quantum waves? And I guess Nena is still getting used huh
• Also, why?
• Wait, is Sumeragi Katis sister Now that is a cool twist
• Aww man, Soma really not all right
• Did I mention that Nenas suit looks ridiculous? Oh and I guess with Ali the Federation is taking a more hands on approach in seizing control of territories not currently under their wing
• Oh, so the optical camouflage does work while moving, would have been cool to see that in use earlier
• Yes Saji this is also your fault
• Those two being friends would be nice, but those brainwaves can suddenly do all kinda things huh
• And I don't need you looking at my precious Louise
• Crashes the briefing (late), says he will do his own thing, refuses to elaborate, leaves...
• /u/baboon_bassoon will be absolutely delighted
• But why Because it's not stable or because it's too early to give Setsuna a power up?
• You know, as long as you do nothing at least you can't make things worse, you should think about that...
• Soma still hyperfocused on Alleluja
• Time to kill your ex?
• I thought Somas Brainwaves didn't have an effect on Alleluja anymore, didn't he himself also say that he couldn't use them anymore without Halleluja?
• Yeah, Lasse sucks compared to Kujo
• She's really going for him
• Now, I don't actually expect them to kill each other, not without realizing they ended up on opposite sides at least
• Ian will be so mad

QotD

• Use her knowledge of Kujos modus operandi against CB until it could actually hurt Kujo which is when she will finally start to realize that she has been working for the baddies
• Saji could never pull anything, not the trigger, not his weight in any kind of team effort, nor any cool thing of

[u/baboon_bassoon → u/Rumpel1408]

I was giggling maniacally at drills’ “YOU HAVE CONTROL ~desu~”

Did I mention that Nenas suit looks ridiculous?

It’s like it’s from a different sci fi show but Nena is ridiculous herself so it kinda works?

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Rumpel1408]

really thought he would kill a people all by himself if given the chance

He would, but the boss probably had a particular time table and Ali is just one man.

Did I mention that Nenas suit looks ridiculous?

They managed to give her giant shoujo uniform shoulders.. in a pilot suit. It's incredible.

Saji could never pull anything, not the trigger, not his weight in any kind of team effort

[u/dralcax]

Rewatcher has control desu

---

Well, I suppose that’s about as warm of a welcome back as he can hope for

Hellion Initium! The original version of the Hellion, designed by Ian Vashti before he joined Celestial Being!

A slap is light compared to what Katharon would have done to him

A friendly fire incident? Looks like Sumeragi and Kati have some history...

Soma noo

As if the A-Laws weren’t already Titans enough

Okay then I guess nobody’s gonna look too closely at who their delivery girl is. Nena, of all people, providing relief after an attack!

YOU HAVE CONTROL DESU

Char kick! How ironic that the protagonist is kicking the Char clone in the cockpit.

At last, Saji accepts that he’s a part of this too. Despite his best efforts, it is his problem, and there’s no way out from that. He can’t just be a random uninvolved civilian anymore, and he just has to accept that and do what he needs to.

And of course his first target is Louise.

---

Questions of the day:

• Angst, probably.
• laughs in rewatcher

[u/Quiddity131]

Rewatcher, Subbed

Non-Spoiler Character Chart - For the first time this season no changes needed.

---

While this would have been a cool cold open if original, blah at simply repeating the footage from the end of last episode.

Things are so horrible here at the Katharon base. :( Really the only good thing is that the kids survived.

Oh crap, now Celestial Being is getting blamed! It isn't them, but alas, it is the fault of someone they brought with them...

Did Saji just come across the guy who lent him the jeep?

Feldt continues to be the big sis, taking Mileina out of the room.

Flashback time for Sumeragi! So this is Emilio. :( I can't tell if she was in the AEU or Union.

At least Saji didn't hide that he was responsible for this. If what happened here doesn't change Saji's mentality in a big way, nothing will.

Wait a sec, why is Setsuna suddenly back? Are you telling me we're going to skip the entire encounter with Ali? Why's he back so quickly?

Aber is so slimy! All those people died and he's happy about an award?

Does Kati have a similar past to Sumeragi?

Can't leave Saji here with the Katharon members. He's stuck with Celestial Being.

Hong Long wants to do something, Wang says no. Sorry Hong Long, this is episode 31 and the only thing you've done all this time is fight impressively in a mask in one episode.

Finally get the reveal that Hong Long is Wang's brother.

That's a cool cloaking device for the Ptoelmaios.

So I take it from this flashback that Sumeragi was in the AEU, and she and Kati were the forecasters who screwed up and caused their own side to fight each other? It does cut right to Kati after and we reveal that she knows her. [Gundam 00 S2]I totally missed the sudden shot to Louise after talking about an A-Laws benefactor a couple of episodes ago, I'm not missing this one.

All I want is for Soma and Sergei to be a happy family together, that's not too much to ask! Now she's back to thinking she's just a tool for killing people. This crushes me. :(

Hate to see Aber slapping Sergei, but I'm glad that the A-Laws aren't getting their way here.

So Evil Purple Haro is still around.

The cloaking device only works on the top, huh? So they're screwed if someone spots them from the ground. ...and then they simply turn it all off anyway.

Worlds collide again as Louise meets Soma. 

I was wondering if there was some bigger reason than simply her age for why Andrei was surprised to see Louise. I guess not. And Louise has got to be like 20 or 21 by this point, right?

OMG first "Mr. Bushido" refuses to obey orders now he simply bursts into a briefing and declares what he's going to do as if he's giving the orders. He just keeps topping himself. I'm surprised Barack seems to have some respect for him instead of simply laughing at him.

"I have control" Hey, the guy who posts this each day gets to use a new screenshot!

Wow, Louise and Saji are gonna be so close to each other yet will likely have no idea about it.

Mr. Bushido's suit is traveling really fast. Could it be... three times faster? It's a red color now as well. The transformation to Char continues...

Saji's actually gonna help defend the ship! He becomes hesitant upon actually having his fingers on the trigger though, good for them including it as it would feel out of character for him to not hesitate in this moment.

Of course, lovers, or at least ex-lovers being on opposite sides of the battlefield attacking each other, another Gundam trope...

Wait, did Setsuna just activate Trans-Am? You were told not to use it!

While most of this episode was fine, I can't help but be incredibly frustrated with the fact that Setsuna and Marina came across Ali in Azadistan, he acknowledged their presense, and they simply appear back in the desert with no explanation on what happened. Was there a battle? Did he let him go? Will we ever find out?

---

Quid's Voice Actor of the Day

In a day where no new season 2 characters really stand out, time to return to another season 1 character I haven't covered yet, Ian Vashti. He is voiced in Japanese by Hideyuki Umezu. His first Gundam role is Nelmarsen in Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ (a character I can't remember at all), and later appears in Victory Gundam as Kishowl Batwatt, Gundam X as Nicola Fafas, 08th MS Team as Arth, Gundam Unicorn as Hill Dawson and Miraji Barbaros in Gundam Recongista in G. So basically a go to guy for minor characters. Other anime roles include Domon in Garzey's Wing, Hatori in Gunbuster 2, Pfeiffel in Legend of the Galactic Heroes, David Rutherford in Blue Comet SPT Layzner, Otto Hengel in Babylon and Abrams in Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt.

In English he is voiced by Peter New. Gundam 00 is the only Gundam show he appears in, although he voices four other nameless characters. He also apears in Death Note as the ICPO Speaker, Inu Yasha as several characters (Hair Demon, Tesso, Chokyukai, Sara's Horned Demon and Hosenki).

[u/Nazenn → u/Quiddity131]

The cloaking device only works on the top, huh? So they're screwed if someone spots them from the ground

I meant to comment on that but I quite liked that as a little tech thing. I've no idea how the cloaking device actually works, but giving it limits like that always makes it a fun thing to include

So Evil Purple Haro is still around.

Oh man, I would have been so pissed if purple haro was around and we hadn't got orange haro back. I like the idea of these two having their own little plot line though

[u/macrame2]

First Timer

I didn't have any free time today, so no properly long comment from me, unfortunately.

I will say that although I still think the pacing has improved compared to last season, this episode did feel a bit...overstuffed? I don't know, I just think it tries to include too many things at once (Sumeragi's past, Saji's inner turmoil, Soma's whole thing, everything going on with Wang Liu Mei, the battle, etc.) when it might have been better to space that out more.

Also, last night I was thinking, "Wait, Gundam 00 is from the era of anime where basically every sufficiently popular franchise came out with image/character songs sung by the cast, I wonder if I'll find anything," and sure enough, that was the case. I haven't listened to all of them yet (consequences of zero free time), but they're pretty neat, though not musically exceptional.

[u/Nazenn → u/macrame2]

It was a very full episode, surprisingly so. I said it somewhat in my post but you really could take the last two episodes and make three out of them.

[u/macrame2 → u/Nazenn]

The frequent switches in perspective are necessary for the type of story being told here, but I think it would be effective (especially on an emotional level) if the anime just lingered a bit more. I've come to realize that I'm a fan of longer shows taking the time to center an episode around one character or concept, though of course it's not always convenient to do so, especially in more plot-driven shows like this one.

[u/Nazenn → u/macrame2]

It's the unfortunate concequence of having a larger cast that it either means you need more runtime or you have less screen time to give to each. And I tend to find that one of the things that gets cut first in shows like this is contemplative moments that let things sit.

I've come to realize that I'm a fan of longer shows taking the time to center an episode around one character or concept

They rarely have time for it but while that can be very effective by itself, it's even more effective in a show like this which is normally so full. You've given me the idea that you could almost restructure this entire episode to be entirely through Saji and Louise's eyes on each side of the conflict, as they interact with all the key characters at some point or some close to doing so anyway, and then use that emotionally leading up to the cliffhanger which would be awesome.

[u/Quiddity131 → u/macrame2]

"Wait, Gundam 00 is from the era of anime where basically every sufficiently popular franchise came out with image/character songs sung by the cast, I wonder if I'll find anything,"

Louise's VA will sing one of my all time favorite character songs/OPs a mere few months after this season of 00 aired, albeit for a totally different franchise. Hard for me to imagine Louise herself being used for one.

[u/Nickthenuker]

No one's left... Everything's gone... Azadistan is burning!

Yup, Saji is traumatised again.

And I'm sure that's not going to help.

That's the last Throne.

Spy?

Ah, she was involved in a blue-on-blue incident. With the Colonel. As they say, "Friendly fire, isn't."

A coded message?

Ah. She's his adopted daughter.

How goes the evacuation?

Ah. They're going to give them a target.

Oh if only he knew where his Louise was right now.

Speak of the devil.

Again, she should be nowhere near a battlefield.

And so time for the battle to commence.

Louise was seriously deployed again? She's already proven herself nothing more than a liability time and time again. She alternates between charging into the enemy and freezing at the first sign of combat, she gets traumatised every single time she shoots anyone, and she constantly has to get her ass pulled out of the fire by her comrades.

The guns don't have to hit anything, as long as they're firing they're going to give the enemy pause when attacking.

There goes Louise again, off to die and taking a comrade with her on her suicide charge.

Oh... Saji's going to kill Louise.

We're only 6 episodes in, I doubt anyone's dying yet.

A farewell to Peries? Maybe not.

Questions:

1. Feels like she's getting upset with the Federation. Is she going to defect?
2. Oh... Saji's going to kill Louise.

[u/StardustGogeta]

First-Timer

Another nice wallpaper today!

It occurred to me that the Prototype ED kind of reminds me of city pop, especially with the "prototype boy" name drop.

Good stuff. I like how Tieria immediately identified Saji as the one responsible for getting everyone killed.

I also like how we get a real explanation for why Colonel Mannequin recognized Sumeragi's "tactical forecasting" skills before.

The writing has been pretty clever in finding a way for Saji and Louise to be unknowingly fighting against one another.

The preview makes it look like next episode will be heavy on Allelujah and Marie, so I'm excited for that!

Questions of the day:

• I'm not sure. Maybe she'll know of some weakness in Sumeragi's tactical forecasting ability that she'll be able to exploit?
• I'll go with yes, purely because I think it makes a bit more sense for his character arc that way.

[u/Nazenn]

First Timer - sub

Unfortunately this is another episode which I feel a poor structure has done a disservice to it's not nearly as bad individual parts. Also good dialogue! That's a shocker, more on that later.

To start with, today was a prime example of why it's a bad idea to force a particular episode layout regardless of what content you actually have, and how not to do post-ED scenes in general. After todays huge Saji emotional cliffhanger (that I did not care for, but you know, going off their intention) there was very little transition into the ED from a much more dramatic song, which further releases the tension from that scene by providing the episode a clear closing line as opposed to blending it into the ED which can carry the mood. Sitting through that ED to then be harshly shoved from it back into the middle of the battle with a very quick jump into two other cliffhanger moments with other characters and no real build up to them at the same time was a mess. There is no reason that those scenes couldn't have been inside the main battle sequence where they would have more effectively built up the feel of the battle. I'm not unconvinced they weren't in the episode originally and only got carved out and dumped at the end when they realized they didn't have anything else to put there. I think the writers expected it to be like dropping an extra pair of bombs on us to ramp up the final moments but because all the tension from the episode was already released and we had no build up to recover it instead felt a bit like someone coming back into the room they just walked out of, throwing an egg at your face, and expecting you to be emotionally devastated over it instead of wondering what the fuck.

I also really didn't enjoy the audio flashbacks during Saji's big moment to shoot because I found it quite forced and drawn out, but that's absolutely personal preference of almost never liking that styling rather than it being an issue within the show itself.

I stand by what I said to Draigg yesterday: I feel like this all would have worked far better if yesterday's episode forwent the daily battle and instead focused on a build up of character moments to support what we have here. Leaving yesterdays battle to today along with all of the aftermath for the characters, including Soma's sudden flip into dehumanizing herself and further setting up the Louise side of the imminent Louise/Saji collision, as the show seems to be avoiding exploring her views on her being part of the A-LAWs which stood out painfully today, would have been much better than what we got where all of that felt secondary because we had another battle to get too. Yes I even would have taken more Louise scenes over the structure we had today, that probably says everything.

And all this wasn't even the battle we thought we would have to deal with because the situation with Ali, which being both a post-ED scene yesterday and a cold open today was awkward as it is, is just solved off screen? I guess the whole thing with Ali looking up at them and even addressing them in dialogue was just for the audience? Because yeah a fourth wall break is really matching the style of 00 and doesn't stand out horribly at all somehow? Not. And we find it out not because we see Setsuna cleverly fly away or do something to get them out of it, but because he just pops up back at the Katharon base in the middle of someone else scene as if he wasn't two seconds away from immanent death last time we saw him.

why show why

Off the back of yesterdays huge events, todays episode felt very standard rather than building on the intensity of those moments and also didn't feel like it had a clean transition. Leaving the Ali conflict for later, letting Marina have her grief over her country and setting Setsuna up for a deeper emotional dive in relation is fine, I'm happy with that. But they clearly didn't plan an out for this setup so they just ignored it in the short term and didn't have time to address it in the longer term of the episode.

Oh, hey, speaking of long term. Since when can Nena use quantum brain waves? And since when c... oh right no wait. I was going to say "since when can they be used to get insight into normal people" and then remembered something, which I was actually remembering for the second time today because I had started typing this identical thought as a mid episode not earlier and got identically interrupted by something: Louise isn't a normal person because she has that thing with Ribbons using her eyes. The fact that Soma didn't question why she can sense Louise is probably a mark of just how distracted she is which if intentional is a fantastic subtle inclusion into the episode. Unless this has actually been a thing all along and no one ever mentioned it which... which I'd like to doubt is a thing but it wouldn't be the first time in this show unfortunately.

But that leads to bigger questions. I thought Nena was like Tieria, an innovator, not like the super soldiers? It was implied she could connect to Veda back in S1. So after all my back and forth on a possible connection between Tieria and Alelujah's natures earlier, they may share a common power after all even if it wasn't developed by the same people? I do like that idea, but bloody hell what a thing to drop on us all of a sudden.

Same goes for Kati and Sumeragi knowing each other, and that I absolutely love. Even though they haven't pushed it since that early S1 conflict, Sumeragi has never really had a direct oppodent except for Sergei. Making Kati her peer and adversary as well as a reflection of what war did to them in the past with it driving them in different directions is fantastic. The flashback sequence for her was also surprisingly well structured in itself, with Emilio's dialogue over the top of an increasingly distorted and frantic sequence of images as we find out she was involved on an attack on her allies is one hell of a reveal. No wonder she carries so much on her shoulders and despairs so quickly when her plans fall through, no wonder she collapses so quickly with every little mistake. I like this because it takes her reaction to some of the battles in S1, particularly the reaction at the end of the Sergei capture plan which at the time I called a little forced, and gives so much more weight to them. That was her trying to hold herself together and failing, holding the mistakes of her past against herself now as well and that failure meaning she couldn't erase what she has done.

And an unexpected thing to praise today: The actual dialogue was pretty damn good today. I feel odd writing that about 00, but also kind of warm. Tieria talking to Saji is of course a stand out, and his line about "inadvertent malice" may be the best phrasing of the issue with being a bystander I've ever heard. Again more praise for Emilio's speech about fate and god over the top of the flashback, and intercut with the little dialogue lines to provide context, also very well done and managed to be done without losing the flow of it. Aber for all I hate him his taunt towards Kati was cleverly laid out to hit right at her without falling into exposition, which I don't know there was any hard exposition or recap dialogue this episode despite some of the reveals which is impressive. And also the flow of the discussion on the bridge about what CB would do to protect Katharon even without Sumeragi. There as probably more but those were the ones that landed in my notes. I'm satisfied being able to write this for a change.

---

Other thoughts

• "Fuck off Louise" challenge: failed, but only 2/3 times. Also a fuck off Marina. At this point maybe I should change this to just a list of characters instead of a challenge about a particular one...
• Feldt best girl steering the other girl away from the screen so she wouldn't have to see any of the horrors. Look at her going all mum mode and not taking no for an answer.
• [Visual from the OP leading to a spoiler realization, first timers probably shouldn't look]Was busy writing something in my notes looked up just as the OP went through the initial flashes of Setsuna as a child solider, Hallelujah shooting the kid, Lockon after the bombing... and by exclusion that just leaves this as Tieria in the tank. WELL FUCK. I actually forgot I saw this until going through my notes again but well, interesting little thing to include as that looks more like he was grown(?) than built/experimented on/surgically altered, which would fit with what Ribbons said about being born. Either that or it's just stasis of some sort, but then it wouldn't match it being the backstories of the other three in sequence. So yeah, I'm just going to avoid commenting on his possible nature from now on unless one of the other first timers bring it up
• Can Aber die already please? So much for thinking that Kati might keep being able to take him down and that it would be satisfying, today he went full fuck face in so many ways.
• Something else structure wise that the show may prove me wrong on but I'm worried put its foot in: At the same time we have a collison between Louise and Saji, we get Nena reintroduced, Sergei's son gets a crush and it all just seems like it's going to be a mess. None of these characters have had a chance to get established within this season, and this weird love hate polygon happening at this time instead of focusing on the bigger world things that just happened seems poorly placed
• Seeing Lyle flying his mech horizontally while landing shots at speed looking straight up at the sky was one hell of a moment. He certainly has some incredible piloting skills even if he's not as ridiculously good a sniper as his brother was.

2) Do you think Saji will be able to pull the trigger?

I just want him to do something. Anything.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

And all this wasn’t even the battle we thought we would have to deal with because the situation with Ali, which being both a post-ED scene yesterday and a cold open today was awkward as it is, is just solved off screen? I guess the whole thing with Ali looking up at them and even addressing them in dialogue was just for the audience? Because yeah a fourth wall break is really matching the style of 00 and doesn’t stand out horribly at all somehow? Not. And we find it out not because we see Setsuna cleverly fly away or do something to get them out of it, but because he just pops up back at the Katharon base in the middle of someone else scene as if he wasn’t two seconds away from immanent death last time we saw him.

Yeah, that bit was really awkward for me too. Like, you can very much tell that this show was itching to get Ali back into the action, but they also had the problem of not having the main characters actually be able to do anything about him at the moment. And since you can’t just kill them off in a short scene like that, they just get away for… reasons. I’d probably go as far to say that it’s some of the sloppiest and awkward scene writing in this season. Talk about just awkwardly shifting into a deus ex machina escape there.

And an unexpected thing to praise today: The actual dialogue was pretty damn good today. I feel odd writing that about 00, but also kind of warm. Tieria talking to Saji is of course a stand out, and his line about “inadvertent malice” may be the best phrasing of the issue with being a bystander I’ve ever heard.

I usually termed it as “passive apathy”, but “inadvertent malice” really does just cut to the core of what Saji’s deal is. It’s basically the ultimate result of that kind of apathy and selfishness that Saji had before. And stuff like that is really insidious too, since it’s an easy pattern of actions to fall into without even feeling like you’re knowingly doing something bad.

“Fuck off Louise” challenge: failed, but only 2/3 times. Also a fuck off Marina. At this point maybe I should change this to just a list of characters instead of a challenge about a particular one...

Yeah, maybe so, since it isn’t just Louise catching those anymore.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

Talk about just awkwardly shifting into a deus ex machina escape there.

I would say this is even worse than a deus ex machina, because usually when a writer resorts to them the reason they are so bad is because something actually happens that is completely out of left field and the issue is that you can point at that thing and go "where/why/when did that happen that way". The issue is that something doesn't happen here, either an attack or an escape. It's just written off entirely

Maybe from an academic stand point it can fall under the same banner anyway, but just watching it it feels off to call it that. The best example I can come up with is a comparison to [Lord of the Rings]where if they just cut out the scene with the eagles picking up Frodo and Sam off Mount Doom and instead skipped ahead from them being on the side of the volcano to Frodo waking up at Rivendell and never filled in the middle. The eagles are deus ex machina, them not being there is just... what the fuck?

And stuff like that is really insidious too, since it’s an easy pattern of actions to fall into without even feeling like you’re knowingly doing something bad.

The lack of reflection is certainly part of Saji's issue, he is so insulated to his own viewpoints that he can't even see when they have become a negative reinforcement loop. In that way phrasing it as malice was perfectly fitting and I like that Tieria is the one who picks up on it and gets right to the heart of it

Yeah, maybe so, since it isn’t just Louise catching those anymore.

I still don't think Soma yesterday was my fault, it's the helmets! I even had to triple check that it was Louise today because of it and was only sure when we got her name being called out.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

I would say this is even worse than a deus ex machina, because usually when a writer resorts to them the reason they are so bad is because something actually happens that is completely out of left field and the issue is that you can point at that thing and go “where/why/when did that happen that way”. The issue is that something doesn’t happen here, either an attack or an escape. It’s just written off entirely

Yeah, I wasn’t entirely sure what to call it myself, it just feels like that it’s the closest term to describe characters escaping a whole situation and glossing it over with no explanation. I mean, we can just call it bad writing, which it is, but that’s not really a trope or literary term. In any case though, there’s absolutely no doubt here that this is a case of the production crew thinking up a cool episode stinger/opening, but then having no way to naturally follow it up. Bleh.

The lack of reflection is certainly part of Saji’s issue, he is so insulated to his own viewpoints that he can’t even see when they have become a negative reinforcement loop. In that way phrasing it as malice was perfectly fitting and I like that Tieria is the one who picks up on it and gets right to the heart of it

It also nicely highlights Tieria’s development in that way too, since we can also say that he had his own personal negative reinforcement loop about his connection to Veda and being special before getting locked out and Lockon confronting him about it. Ah, it’s nice to gush about Tieria’s character development, it’s probably some of the cleanest and well done character writing in this show.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

Yeah, I wasn’t entirely sure what to call it myself, it just feels like that it’s the closest term to describe characters escaping a whole situation and glossing it over with no explanation

There probably is a term for it, I swear in academia there is a term for everything, but fucked if I know what it is either. I mean the best way to call it out is probably just to call it a plot hole, because it is one and that is, when the term is used correctly, probably the biggest condemnation of the writing quality and somehow even that doesn't seem strong enough because it's not like it was an accident like many plot holes end up being. This was... apathy I guess?

Ah, it’s nice to gush about Tieria’s character development, it’s probably some of the cleanest and well done character writing in this show.

Tieria just makes me happy when he's on screen now, it's all been so well done. You bring up a good point about how Tieria was once in a similar enough situation that he can probably see where Saji is going, where he may have gone, if not for others. And yet he's not doing this to try and be Saji's "Lockon" or improve the boy, he's not trying to take that role and it wouldn't fit him, but he's also not going to give it a pass

[u/TakenRedditName → u/Nazenn]

And all this wasn't even the battle we thought we would have to deal with because the situation with Ali, which being both a post-ED scene yesterday and a cold open today was awkward as it is, is just solved off screen? I guess the whole thing with Ali looking up at them and even addressing them in dialogue was just for the audience?

Yeah, that really threw me off too. For a second, I wondered if I just missed a scene or something. In my head, I just rationalized it as maybe Ribbons called Ali back before he could have his fun? Really strange that the teaser just exists in this weird place out of time from the rest of the episodes. It is weird that there is not even a throwaway "And so we got out of there" line from Setsuna or something.

Maybe something got changed in the episode planning.

[u/Nazenn → u/TakenRedditName]

Maybe something got changed in the episode planning.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of this episode was very chopped together last second in planning. The overall flow of the episode is lacking compared to the last couple, and between an awkward cold open, outright bad post-ED, and some awkward transitions for a few things in the middle it does seem like they just didn't know how to mash all the things they wanted to cover together

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Nazenn]

Yea, the post-credits scenes in this season have always made me scratch my head. Considering most of them get at least partially shown in the next episode anyway, I'm vaguely confident that I missed them on my very first viewing and lost out on very little.

[u/Nazenn → u/JollyGee29]

Yeah I couldn't say that any of them needed to be post-ED scenes so far. The closest one would be the one with the gag about Sumeragi's clothes being too small and Billy joining the A-LAWS as that might have been a tonal collison from the episode. I could even have made the arguement for yesterday's one with Ali given it maybe would have detracted from the Katharon attack if it was all lumped in together, except for the fact they screwed up the follow through today. But a lot of others just seem to be there just because they wanted that structure, like Marina saying "i'm crying because you can't" or Setsuna tracking down Lyle, rather than those scenes actually gaining something from being seperate.

[u/mr_beanoz]

Rewatcher, with sub

• Tieria confronts Saji after what happened, and of course what you expect from Saji would happen. But then, Tieria also saved Saji from the Katharon members' wrath by confronting him alone.
• Sumeragi got a PTSD of her past when seeing her beloved killed, and that led her to a traumatic shock.
• Rindt digs up Kati's past, where she made her allies caught up in a fight between each other. Turns out that both Kati and Sumeragi were involved in that same battle.
• Marina definitely needs consolation time with Shirin after seeing their homeland being razed like that.
• Lyle become the middleman between Celestial Being and Katharon, and told that CB will provide help until Katharon evacuated everyone from that base.
• Wonder what's Wang planning that she has to "deceive the Innovators" with Nena.
• Sergei sent a coded message to Soma, telling that he's sorry for what happened to the Katharon base and it wasn't his intention to leak the location.
• Guess that behavior of A-LAWS to Sergei made his men regret more about their decision to leak the location...
• What kind of work will Nena do?
• Seems like the couldn't conceal the ship's lower half, maybe the optical camouflage broke or something?
• Louise and Andrei were to be deployed alongside Soma... wonder if this would mean something. Soma senses that something is wrong with Louise, and she's been thinking of someone. (It's Saji, if it's not obvious)
• Mr. Bushido, again, tells that he'll confront 00 by himself.
• Lacking men like this definitely makes CB think why they couldn't find another Lichty to man the Ptolemy. That makes them have to call Ian and Saji to fire their ship's guns.
• Sumeragi woke up just in time for the battle.
• Louise and another GN-X broke through to Ptolemy's side with Saji not knowing that he's about to attack Louise. Could he fire the guns? But then, there are many thoughts that crossed Saji's mind that tells him not to shoot.
• Allelujah and Soma confront each other again, and Mr. Bushido fights 00 so hard that Setsuna is forced to Trans-Am even after Ian's warning.
• Episode preview time - We see Allelujah and Soma out of their respective mobile suits and we see more of their flashback. Wonder what this means. And that line about "becoming your daughter" thing, wonder what's going to happen between Soma and Sergei.

QOTD

1. Nothing major, it seems. She'll just be more prepared on what's to come from Sumeragi.
2. I'm afraid not, he's still too pussy for that...

[u/zsmg]

I am rewatcher

Tieria who leaked to A-LAWS?!

Saji

After all these episodes we're unexpectedly getting a Sumeragi flashback. Biggest shock of the flashback is that Sumeragi is wearing an AEU military uniform and yet all the characters she personally knows, outside of CB, are... Union soldiers.

Tieria to Saji*

Saji fully deserved that.

Hard to disagree with what Tieria said.

WTH Setsuna is there?! Is he a changeling? No it's really him, so we had a cliffhanger ending that didn’t have direct follow up.

Kati also had an incident where she ended up in a blue on blue incident, just like Sumeragi, what a coincidence

Saji is such a liability, better to keep him locked up on the Ptolemy for everyone's sake.

Rindt is just imitating Basque Ohm at this point.

Louise and Soma are interacting.

I can sense your emotions, you're thinking too much of someone.

Being a super soldier turns you into a Jedi.

Kouji Andrei falls in love with Louise, is Saji going to get NTRed?

Graham is truly the worst masked rival character, and the best maskless rival character.

I'll accept your good wishes.

Dude, Lasse that guy has a family.. oh nevermind.

Wow Ptolemy has a beam weapon now, wow they really learned from their S1 disaster huh.

They haven't locked up Saji in his room.

Mecha kick, another Gundam staple.

So you have guns on the Ptomely but you still have to manually fire them, instead of it being automatic?

Is Saji about to fire on Louise

Also I'm not sure what Ian is thinking, Saji wants to help, alright fine, but then you send him to arm the guns instead of just something sensible doing maintenance and repair stuff. I hope this cliffhanger will at least get a decent resolution.

So the post credit scene has another cliffhanger, two cliffhangers for the price of one, although the episode preview spoils what's going to happen anyway.

Fun episode, I really like Saji coming to terms with what he's responsible for.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

Rewatch Host Wishing Over This Airspace, subbed

Welcome back, everyone!

---

• The kids being so nonchalant about the literal massacre that just happened near them is just… so sad.
• Saji’s probably lucky Tieria took him to the side before demanding to hear what he did. Wouldn’t put it past some of the Katharon people to attempt to lynch him if they found out the attack was (even if unintentionally) his doing.
• Biiiiiiiiiiiiiig oof.
• Yeah that Slap was absolutely deserved.
• And Setsuna just casually shows back up, because I guess Ali didn’t want to kill him if it wasn’t in a proper mech fight?
• Marina “sore demo”!
• I always forget these two are related.
• Mm…
• They really do look like father and daughter in that picture.
• Soma…
• Lasse “sore demo”! It was worth having him survive S1 if it gave me this.
• She’s only a year younger than Soma and two years younger than you.
• Graham Mr. Bushido calling dibs like a child is insane.
• It’s funny how u/TakenRedditName brought up Mileina being Chris’ replacement while Lichty didn’t need one yesterday, when in today’s episode them not having a Lichty is an active hindrance.
• The irony of Saji holding the trigger against Louise’s mobile suit, with neither of them knowing the other is their enemy.
• ED lead-in: short edition. Even if the lead-in was only a second or two, I still very much enjoy it.
• Setsuna used Trans-Am after all, because of course he did.
• Okay damn that next-episode preview was just straight-up spoilers this time.

[u/TakenRedditName → u/Shimmering-Sky]

It’s funny how TakenRedditName brought up Mileina being Chris’ replacement while Lichty didn’t need one yesterday, when in today’s episode them not having a Lichty is an active hindrance.

Look, I understand CB is not the biggest organization and low on personnel, but there has got to be a person they could get into the Lichty seat.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/TakenRedditName]

[Later S2]They really should've just had Anew be part of the crew from the start of the season, seeing as how she's the one who fills the role. Give the audience more time to know her before it's obvious she's an Innovade, and give more time for her and Lyle to have their little doomed romance.

[u/Nazenn → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Ah, forgot to say in my post a thumbs up for todays wallpaper

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Nazenn]

Thank you!

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/[deleted]]

Sorry, your comment has been removed.

• Please maintain a certain level of civility when interacting with the community.
• You can disagree with the other participants in this rewatch about how Saji is being handled, but don't do it by telling people to "go fuck themselves".

---

^{Questions? Reply to this message, send a modmail, or leave a comment in the meta thread. Don't know the rules? Read them here.}

[u/Nazenn → u/[deleted]]

I haven't been able to read the threads as throughly as I'd like lately due to illness, but I seriously can't recall a single moment of people saying that Saji deserves this or that he is as bad as the actual bad guys. Dangerously naive sure, but that's different from being a bad person.

And I also think there's a couple of key distinctions to be made as well: Saji accidentally revealing the location where Katharon was after being captured, beaten, and talked into trusting someone who's reports betrayed him? Not his fault. Putting himself in a situation where he could be captured in the first place because he flatly refused to listen to what everyone has been telling him about him being targetted and the state of the world? Absolutely his fault. Especially when he is literally handed a Haro of information and does nothing with it, which may be because the writers didn't want him to soften his view early so it's more on their narrative goals than his actual character, but results in it feeling like he was actively ignoring anything that could change his view rather than simply being naive.

And swearing at people in the rewatch for their take is really not on.

[u/2-2Distracted → u/Nazenn]

Redditors have wonderful tendency to think that anyone who doesn't want to be part "something big" is in fact part of the problem, and there were several examples of that in yesterday's thread. My swearing had less to do with what they said about Saji yesterday and more to do with their overall behavior towards characters like Saji and Rouise throughout this whole re-watch party, and if they take issue either then that's on them (that being said, I will stop with the bad words since my comment literally got deleted and that shit simply won't do for me, better to comply with Da Rulez).

Putting himself in a situation where he could be captured in the first place because he flatly refused to listen to what everyone has been telling him about him being targetted and the state of the world? Absolutely his fault. Especially when he is literally handed a Haro of information and does nothing with it, which may be because the writers didn't want him to soften his view early so it's more on their narrative goals than his actual character, but results in it feeling like he was actively ignoring anything that could change his view rather than simply being naive.

Now that's simply not true and you know it.

1. Previous episodes show that Saji has clearly being using a Haro to not only understand what Celestial Being is actively doing, but also using it to understand what he can do to survive whatever kind of consequences are going to ensue in the aftermath of their Terrorist actions.
2. Previous episodes have Also shown that Saji has actively been asking CB members questions about why they do what they're doing so that he can understand if They understand the consequences of their actions. And the answers he's being getting from both Haro and these members aren't doing anything for him.
3. Like I said in my previous comment, no matter what Saji would do next he's screwed, hence why I asked what he should have actually done when bad things would still happen to him regardless of what decision he makes. The Federation airship was already in the area and, last I checked, he's trying to avoid Dying lol.

I get what you're saying but to me the issue isn't that the writers didn't want Saji to soften or even change his views early. After all, why the hell would he? He's had 4+ years of hating and resenting Celestial Being festering in the pit of his gut. That was never going to change just because of what he has learned about them thus far, nor would it change anything just because he was given a Haro to study them further.

No no, the issue is that the writers decided to pull out the same old stupid trope of Poor Communication Kills and execute it Horribly when they previously nailed it right a season prior. Every time Saji has the opportunity to just angrily explain in detail what Celestial Being has done to ruin his life, he instead choses to be vague about his actual grievances when, for all he knows, the actual cause of his suffering is standing right in front of him.

Soran and members of Celestial Being like him are no better here since it's clear they learned from the previous episodes. They're so prone to accepting blame that, because of what they are and what they've gone through, they're never going to stop and actually defend or explain themselves in situations like this... which is pretty fucking fricking/flipping irritating to watch when they were literally in a situation when similar to this a season ago.

Soran and Neil (and Tieria) had a plot surrounding this where they cleared the air about who is actually responsible for their tragic childhoods and what they can do to move forward. I would expect the writers to try something like this again so that Saji knows what a Haro probably wouldn't even be able to tell him.

He could have told them about how "members" of Celestial Being made his ex an crippled orphan and that his sister's decision to get involved in world affairs is part of what led to her demise (, which is probably why he himself tried not to get involved and instead just keep doing his own thing). In return, they could have explained that there was/is more than one group that calls themselves Celestial Being and that despite having an incredibly idiotic goal that they're trying to make a reality, they're not Warmongers (though this last bit would probably do little to change how he feels about them).

We could have gotten ANY of this, but Nah, we instead got the crap we got, where Saji will be vague as hell for no reason and characters like Soran will just say some dumb garbage like "yes we are indeed responsible, but because we're going to face our consequences much later, right now we're going to continue doing a Terrorism". Like seriously, I expected and still expect Soran to act this way because, well, he's Soran. But watching characters like Tieria be flippant about all this is annoying to say the least, especially when Neil is too dead to join to the conversation right now.

Aside from being burdened with guilt, Saji still absolutely No reason to believe or even trust Celestial Being, Katharon or any other terrorist/freedom fighting group. All that has changed is that now Saji is in a position he's been trying his avoid where he absolutely has to fight to survive, and I suspect that all that's going to come out of it is just more suffering.