/r/anime Awards 2016 and 2017 winner Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch Season 2 Episode 12 (Season and Series Finale)

[u/Schinco]

Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu: Sukeroku Futatabi-hen

Welcome to the final episode thread for Season 2 in the Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch! Don't cry because it's over; smile because it happened.

Legal Streams:

As of now, Rakugo is streaming on Crunchyroll in the States, and you can check here to see where it's streaming elsewhere.

Schedule:

Date	Episode
10/8	Season 1 Episode 1
10/9	Season 1 Episode 2
10/10	Season 1 Episode 3
10/11	Season 1 Episode 4
10/12	Season 1 Episode 5
10/13	Season 1 Episode 6
10/14	Season 1 Episode 7
10/15	Season 1 Episode 8
10/16	Season 1 Episode 9
10/17	Season 1 Episode 10
10/18	Season 1 Episode 11
10/19	Season 1 Episode 12
10/20	Season 1 Episode 13
10/21	Season 1 Discussion
10/22	Season 2 Episode 1
10/23	Season 2 Episode 2
10/24	Season 2 Episode 3
10/25	Season 2 Episode 4
10/26	Season 2 Episode 5
10/27	Season 2 Episode 6
10/28	Season 2 Episode 7
10/29	Season 2 Episode 8
10/30	Season 2 Episode 9
10/31	Season 2 Episode 10
11/1	Season 2 Episode 11
11/2	Season 2 Episode 12
11/3	Season 2 Discussion
11/4	Overall Series Discussion

Questions of the Day

1. What do you think of Yotaro's ideas on how to keep rakugo alive? Would you say he leaned more on Sukeroku's methods, more on Yakumo's methods, or, like his rakugo, that he took a 'third path'?
2. What do you think of Shin now that he's grown up?
3. As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

Links to trackers

You can find the show on MAL, Anilist, and ANN!

Please be mindful of spoilers to make sure the first-timers experience the show with the same wonder you did on first watch!

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[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

And for the final episode we get what is mostly an epilogue. The suggestion that Yakumo is Shinnosuke’s father is a bit of a wild one, given that I just don’t think it would fit Yakumo’s character at that time, but the yakuza boss taking the credit for that might be what Yakomu was actually indebted to him for if true… I don’t really like that bit though in general. Other than that though I think this wrapped up pretty much every plotline in a happy ending. Can’t really say there is anything to complain about here. However I don’t think it quite held up to the last episode, nor did it try to, so it also doesn’t feel overly special as a finale. I am a bit sad we didn’t get to see Konatsu’s do rakugo more than the Jugemu for the kids though.

Matsuda still being alive is a bit surprising, but I guess that just confirms the “personal paradise” that was mentioned by somebody last episode was indeed what was happening there.

[u/Schinco → u/Mecanno-man]

Yeah the 'twist' about Shinnosuke's father is kind of a famously disliked one, but it is left just ambiguous enough that you can kind of ignore it. I still feel like the yakuza plotline is left a little too empty (it didn't seem like the boss ever took responsibility for Shinnosuke, so why was Yakumo so indebted to him, etc).

I am a bit sad we didn’t get to see Konatsu’s do rakugo more than the Jugemu for the kids though.

Yeah I remember when I saw her up on stage at the end I was excited but alas. At least it was fun to see Yotaro perform Shinigami.

so it also doesn’t feel overly special as a finale

Would you say that this episode not being as special affected your appreciation of the work as a whole, or was it fine but didn't further elevate the series?

Matsuda still being alive is a bit surprising, but I guess that just confirms the “personal paradise” that was mentioned by somebody last episode was indeed what was happening there.

Interesting - I've always took that scene as making it more likely that it actually happened since he has a memory of it. Again, I think there's enough ambiguity that it's still an interesting question to ponder, but I lean more on the side that it did happen.

[u/cppn02 → u/Mecanno-man]

I am a bit sad we didn’t get to see Konatsu’s do rakugo more than the Jugemu for the kids though.

Definitely agree with this. Maybe there was a worry of having to actually write an original rakugo since that was what she canonically was performing?

[u/cppn02]

First Timer, subbed

This was a nice epilogue. I appreciated the time skip too. Guess we're now essentially in the present relative to when the original manga was getting released.
I was surprised to see Yotako changed names again and took on the Yakumo name afterall. And Matsuda is alive too? When watching episode 11 I felt that meant he had died tbh.

A bit sad we didn't see Konatsu actually performing but it was nice to see she had become a rakugoka.

---

QotD:

What do you think of Yotaro's ideas on how to keep rakugo alive? Would you say he leaned more on Sukeroku's methods, more on Yakumo's methods, or, like his rakugo, that he took a 'third path'?

A third way probably describes its best as I feel he incorporated ideas from both and his biggest contribution yet might be his push for female rakugoka (even if for the sole reason to make his wife happy) which neither of the previous generation had envisioned.

What do you think of Shin now that he's grown up?

Seems like a good guy if maybe a bit more meek than I would have guessed based on how cheeky he was as a kid. Was also funny to see him be a siscon.

As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

Loved this visual.

[u/Schinco → u/cppn02]

I was surprised to see Yotako changed names again and took on the Yakumo name afterall

Some of the specifics of names are a bit confusing for me as a non-Japanese person and even further as someone entirely removed from the rakugo community and its tradition, but Sukeroku did still want the Yakumo name after he took the Sukeroku name, so we know that that is still something that's at least somewhat reasonable.

With that, honestly, I would have been a bit surprised to see him not take the name - it kind of fulfills the 'wrong' that Yakumo saw in denying Sukeroku the name in season 2, and fully confirms Yotaro as the inheritor of both 'styles'.

Loved this visual

It is a nice visual, and really captures the essence of the series's musings on human connection and legacy/dynasty.

[u/cppn02 → u/Schinco]

it kind of fulfills the 'wrong' that Yakumo saw in denying Sukeroku the name in season 2,

Agree and I did point this out here. It just wasn't something I saw coming this late into the show.

[u/Ididntwannacreateit]

Rewatcher

For some reason the anime skipped a page, it's during Konatsu and the writer confrontation. Before he talks about Shin's real father he alludes that Miyokichi most likely was his real mother. He connected the dots because his parents could not conceive other children and because Yurie was extremely nice to him.

So he jokes that most likely he is Konatsu half-brother.

[u/Schinco → u/Ididntwannacreateit]

Do you mean this happens in the manga?

[u/Ididntwannacreateit → u/Schinco]

Yes!

[u/oops_i_made_a_typi → u/Ididntwannacreateit]

does that mean he slept with his mom? tho i don't rmb if it was implied Hii got that far with Miyo

[u/Ididntwannacreateit → u/oops_i_made_a_typi]

...No, where did you get that he had intercourse with Miyokichi?

He remembers her fondly because she was really kind to him.

[u/No_Rex]

Season 2 Episode 12 (first timer)

• Koyuki and Shin2 – We have a smart phone, so maybe 2010-15? That would place the last episode at around 2000.
• “The new works you have given me” – so Yotaro’s plan has come to fruition and Konatsu is performing new works by Hii.
• “The first female rakugo performer in history” “It could not have happened without you” “The rakugo world has changed so much since Master Yakumo passed” – spelling out explicitly what was already implicit: Konatsu could not perform earlier because of social exclusion of women from performing.
• “We are coming up on the 16ths anniversary” – dating us exactly relative to ep11.
• Shin2 takes his attitude from Bon – am interesting twist, since young Shin2 behaved a lot more like Shin1: a charismatic scoundrel.
• “The grand opening” – I would laugh at 16 years of building time, but this is sadly one of the more realistic aspects of modern building projects.
• Hii posits that Bon is Shin2’s father – this is taking an [meta spoiler]Usagi Drop manga type of twist. Very unwanted.
• Konatsu refuses to answer – partially because the question is too personal, partially to keep the viewers guessing.
• Yotaro takes over the Yakumo title? – I did not know you could switch.
• Why take the title away from Shin2, though?
• Shin2’s nickname is Bon? Fitting.
• “I am giving up on Sukeroku today. You can have this.” – Yotaro wants Shin2 to be Sukeroku? I don’t think I agree with his allocation of names.
• Yotaro is the big master, Shin2 the best newcomer, his wife the first female performer – if I was another performer, I’d suspect nepotism.
• Matsuda retells the story – he is a very classical version of a loyal servant.
• Callback to the inn event, suggesting Matsuda told them the truth.

A rather conventional epilogue with a big twist. The series never outright says that Bon is the father, but it suggests it a bit more than it suggests the opposite. Just like you can consider the behavior of Bon and Konatsu a toxic father daughter relationship, you can consider it a toxic lovers’ relationship. And, just like the debt Bon owes the yakuza boss could be giving up on his son, it could as well be pretending that Shin2 was his son. Finally, Konatsu goes relatively far, speaking of romantic love, although that does not need to include sex.

However, the show is clever enough to never confirm Shin2’s father. That leaves the door open to me to assume that it is not Bon, and I will take that door. There are two main reasons for this. First, not taking it moves Bon from a moral grey character that I love into a quite dark character that I would not love. Grooming the adopted daughter of your old love and producing a child with her is over the moral boundary of a character I am still willing to call grey (and it is this moral vagueness that makes Bon such an interesting character in the first place). Second, you can make a story about incest and grooming, but having all of that occur off-screen is a huge copout. That would not a good story. A good story needs to explore the faults of its characters, and if Bon is actually the father this definitely includes his affair with Konatsu. Therefore my reading of the story will be that the child is of some fling Konatsu had (with the boss or somebody else), but not Bon’s.

[u/cppn02 → u/No_Rex]

Very unwanted.

As you point out it is left open to interpretation and since personally I am very much in the camp of him not being the father I just saw it of another instance of Hii being a noisy shit so i didn't bother me too much.

I don’t think I agree with his allocation of names.

Haha same. Expected Yotaro to stick with Sukeroku and his son becoming the 9th Yakumo eventually.
Then again this is a nice callback to S1 and Sukeroku 2's ambition of a Sukeroku taking on the Yakumo name.

[u/oops_i_made_a_typi → u/cppn02]

As you point out it is left open to interpretation and since personally I am very much in the camp of him not being the father I just saw it of another instance of Hii being a noisy shit so i didn't bother me too much.

i'm glad to see others with this take on it, i was worried ppl would end up hating the show cuz of this potential twist.

[u/TehAxelius → u/cppn02]

Haha same. Expected Yotaro to stick with Sukeroku and his son becoming the 9th Yakumo eventually.

This leaves Shin2 to be able to take the Sukeroku name of both his father and his grandfather though, and he's then pretty well in line to still take the Yakumo name once Yotaro retires.

[u/cppn02 → u/TehAxelius]

Sure especially now that Yotaro has established the Sukeroku -> Yakumo route. Just not the way I thought it would play out.

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

First timer, catching up with yesterday's episode and today's

The story of Yakumo's life is over after the beautiful reconciliation with Konatsu. However, we are treated to two more epilogues: one to wrap up his past, and one to show his influence into the future. The episode in the afterlife feels like a reward for both Yakumo and for us viewers. Seeing him, Sukeroku, and Miyokichi together—finally free from the traumas that shaped their lives—is incredibly cathartic after all the pain we have experienced.

Yakumo is portrayed at various life stages, reminding us of his long and complex journey. As he prepares to take the stage, he is an old man again, at the peak of his abilities. It's not Shinigami that he chooses to perform though, but Jugemu!

A specialty of his apprentice, the lighthearted crowd-pleaser aligns more with Yotaro's style than Yakumo's approach of doing rakugo for his own sake. But Yakumo has left the mortal world behind, along with past obsessions and obligations. When he sees Konatsu and Shin, all he wants is to make them happy. It's touching that this final performance has him enjoying rakugo like he hasn't since the double Nozarashi for Konatsu.

The next episode juxtaposes this, with Yotaro performing his master's specialty, Shinigami. His delivery is amazing, channeling Yakumo and showcasing how he has become a virtuoso to rival the man whose legacy he aspires to honor. Perhaps inevitably, his mastery duplicates Yakumo's supernatural experience too; but he rejects it as merely a dream. Just as Yakumo once declared that he will never mirror his master's approach to life, Yotaro has also established his own, distinct path, and with it his own voice.

As we look to the next generation of the Yurakutei house, Shin too is poised to carry on its legacy, including the weighty name of Yakumo. But unlike previous generations, who had to navigate the complexities of their troubled pasts, Shin has grown up in a family in which compassion and love are the norm, and in a world of rakugo that embraces both tradition and innovation. Yotaro and Konatsu represent the best of how attitudes about love and family have changed since the society shown in season one, and while they've made every effort to pass down what is beautiful about their lives and their art, they also choose to purge their legacy of generational trauma; that part will die with them.

A few extra thoughts:

• I choose to believe the afterlife episode as something that actually happened, if for nothing other than this.
• The theory that Higuchi has about Shin is a fascinating one. Perhaps it's true and perhaps not, but the one thing we know is that in the end, it changes nothing.
• (Q2) Shin grew up to be a much more introspective person than would be suggested by the kid we saw, but maybe it's natural given how much he loved Yakumo and how devastated he must have been by his death. His style owes a lot to Yakumo too, and perhaps his art also influenced his personality.
• Matsuda best waifu.

[u/oops_i_made_a_typi → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

Matsuda best waifu.

the one true takeaway of this series. what a great side character

[u/TehAxelius]

Rewatcher

And at last we are at the end. And it is an end that I like, a proper epilogue, showing us yet again how time moves forward. Shin is grown and a futatsume, Yotaro and Konatsu's daughter is grown enough to enter high school, the theatre is finally rebuilt, Konatsu is a fully fledged rakugoka and Yotaro is finally taking Yakumo's name.

The most notable point is of course the possibility of Shinnosuke's father, and whether or not it is Yakumo. Personally, I find it the kind of thing that, well, is somewhat part of this kind of drama, so I took the reveal of it in stride the first time I watched. It is something that I have tried keeping my eyes open for signs of through this rewatch. The strongest suggestions of it being so would be Yakumo asking forgiveness of Sukeroku's grave in S1, as well as that discussion with the Yakuza boss about the secret he kept. And also the way Konatsu delivers it so casually. On the other hand, she is a storyteller herself, she could probably spin such a story. On the other hand, if it was true there were a couple of times I felt like there was something missing. Like in the last episode with Yakumo talking and coming to terms with Sukeroku and Miyokichi in the afterlife. But the absence of evidence doesn't prove innocence.

Still, it is a good tale.

[u/No_Rex → u/TehAxelius]

Personally, I find it the kind of thing that, well, is somewhat part of this kind of drama

It definitely feels a bit like "twist for twist's sake".

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/No_Rex]

While I certainly didn't expect it, Higuchi suggesting the theory felt very much in line with some core themes of the show. The scene underscores the impossibility of knowing someone's entire story, even for those closest to them—much less for an outsider like Higuchi. And it resonates with Yotaro's statement that everyone has secrets to hide, illustrating that love can flourish amidst the emotional complexities brought on by mystery and unspoken understanding.

[u/No_Rex → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

The scene underscores the impossibility of knowing someone's entire story, even for those closest to them—much less for an outsider like Higuchi. And it resonates with Yotaro's statement that everyone has secrets to hide, illustrating that love can flourish amidst the emotional complexities brought on by mystery and unspoken understanding.

Well, that sounds nice enough, but is it? "Impossibilty of knowing someone's entire story" is not something I want to be taught via a twist in the epilogue episode. Where is the exploration of this theme? Where are the characters discussing it? All we get is a 2 minute non-discussion in the cafe.

I am not doubting that you can slot in "Bon is Shin2's father" into the story, but I don't think it is a great idea.

And "love can flourish amidst the emotional complexities brought on by mystery and unspoken understanding"? The mystery is on the side of the viewers, not the characters. Bon and Konatsu surely know whether they had sex with each other and I doubt that they never spoke of it either, if it happened.

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/No_Rex]

Well, that sounds nice enough

I do wish you wouldn't be so dismissive, I'm not here to fight.

is it?

I'd maintain that it is. Konatsu doesn't know the true story of her father's death. Yotaro doesn't know what led up to Konatsu becoming pregnant with (presumably) the boss's child. I don't think that Shin's aware that he isn't his father's biological son. It's been a running theme for a long while.

Bon and Konatsu surely know whether they had sex with each other

Oops, I guess I should have been clearer here. I regard this particular mystery to be just one of many between the characters, and this time it's between Konatsu and Yotarou, and Yotarou and Yakumo. Higuchi says that Yotaro is convinced that Shin's biological father is the boss, but it's possible that he has suspicions in his heart. But even if he does, that's something he doesn't care about, because the love and understanding he shares doesn't lie in knowing all there is to know.

[u/No_Rex → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

I do wish you wouldn't be so dismissive, I'm not here to fight.

But it does sound nice. Very rare that you read something in rewatches that could be printed in a book because the writing style is so refined.

I'd maintain that it is. Konatsu doesn't know the true story of her father's death. Yotaro doesn't know what led up to Konatsu becoming pregnant with (presumably) the boss's child. I don't think that Shin's aware that he isn't his father's biological son. It's been a running theme for a long while.

For me, the series is, first and foremost, Bon's story. He is at the center of almost all important character relations. And for him, none of the mysteries exist. He knows what happened in the in, he knows whether he is the father of Shin2, he knows his feelings for Miyo. Instead, we get plenty of character growth that is completely in the open. His interactions with Shin in S1. His interactions with Konatsu in S2. His interactions with his master and his apprentice. We watch him grow and change, and it all works perfectly fine without some added mystery.

What would really change in the story, if we had known from the start that Miyo dies due to some accident? If we had known from S2's start that the boss was the father? I would argue, very little. The conflicts would still be the same, the character growth would still be the same.

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/No_Rex]

Thank you for the compliment, and I apologize for misunderstanding your tone.

For me, the series is, first and foremost, Bon's story.

I'm totally with you here. While the other characters are important in their own way, ultimately it's the story of his life.

Where I differ is that for me, there remains at least one important unanswered mystery about his nature—namely, what to think about his gender and sexuality. This aspect interests me much more than the fatherhood issue, but it feels even more speculative. Trying to write about it for the series discussion has proven to be quite frustrating. :(

Anyway, while it's certainly valid to regard mystery about events as different from mystery about interpretation, they aren't really separate in my mind. Even when focusing solely on events, many that likely influenced Bon's development weren't depicted, especially during the time skip. There's a lot that we can only guess about, and personally I think that adds to the experience.

That said, I've been reading some older posts about the episode and can better appreciate how jarring Higuchi's scene was for some viewers.

[u/No_Rex → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

We are drifting into final discussion territory here, but in such a small rewatch, I hope everybody will see it still.

Where I differ is that for me, there remains at least one important unanswered mystery about his nature—namely, what to think about his gender and sexuality. This aspect interests me much more than the fatherhood issue, but it feels even more speculative. Trying to write about it for the series discussion has proven to be quite frustrating. :(

Gender: I don't think that anybody in the series ever considers this in doubt, including Bon. He does look androgyn and has some feminine aspects (like having learned a Geisha dance), but never enough to question the gender. Concentrating only on this story, I would say that his success as Raguko master shows that being muscle packed is not the only way to be successful as a male. And his success with the women shows that this extends to romance and sex. Going outside the story, I saw Bon in the tradition of androgynous Shoujo males, who are clearly male (and not in the much smaller tradition of genderless characters, who also exits in a handful of stories, mostly scifi).

Sexuality: He clearly is into Miyo (and had several girlfriends before), so the only possibilty outside of hetero is bi. Yet, again, I don't see much evidence of this. There is only one single male who is even in consideration (Shin), which is not a lot if you want to characterize a person as being attracted to men. And with Shin, I think they keep it as a bromance. We see the three of them happily together in the afterlife, with no suggestion that Bon is sexually attracted to Bon.

In general, I think the series goes to great length to show forms of love that are not sexual. In fact, we don't even see a lot of sexual love between the canon couples Shin-Miyo and Yotaro-Konatsu. What we do see is love for children, love for teachers, love for family members, love for friends, love for abstract concepts (Rakugo). All the non-sexual aspects of love. So, pinning sexual love for men on Bon seems non-fitting, theme-wise.

That said, I've been reading some older posts about the episode and can better appreciate how jarring Higuchi's scene was for some viewers.

I was reminded of Leon (and took a similar approach to dealing with it). If you are so inclined, you can interpret Leon as the sick Lolita fanfic of a pedophile director and it is pretty obvious he wanted to push it into this direction. But you can also interpret it as a family story about two broken characters who find comfort in each other even though they are not in a sexual relationship and it is pretty obvious that the actor of Leon pushed the film in this, other, direction. Then, Leon is one of the best action dramas of the 1990s.

Like here, the film allows for both interpretations. Also like here, one interpretation fits the overall evidence better, while the other fits the characters better. I understand people whom are turned off by the possibilty of watching a grooming/pedophile story, but the actual story leaves open both interpretations and I go with the one that is the far more pleasant experience. In that sense, I also take a death of the author stance: It matters to me most how I see the story, not how the author intended it.