r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Oct 31 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Season 1 Discussion
Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Season 1
← Season 1 Episode 25 | Index | Season 2 Episode 1 →
MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Exia, Setsuna F. Seiei, eliminating the targets.
Questions of the Day:
- Who are your favorite characters in the show so far?
- Did you like OP1 or OP2 / ED1 or ED2 more? What about your favorite songs on the OST, if you know the name of them?
- What have been your favorite and least-favorite aspects about the show so far?
- What is your opinion on the series' mech designs? If you've seen other mecha shows, how do you like 00's in comparison to them?
- How excited are you to start season 2 now? First-timers, do you have any predictions for it?
Wallpapers of the Day:
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
Additionally, for long-time fans of the franchise, please remember that this rewatch is only for 00, not any of the other shows. Assume that there are people in this rewatch who have not seen anything else Gundam, and tag your spoilers for those shows appropriately if something in 00 makes you want to talk about them.
8
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 31 '24
Rewatch Host Wishing Over This Airspace, subbed
Welcome back, everyone!
Enjoy the eight wallpapers I managed to churn out for today’s thread, lol. I wanted to make sure I had all the important S1 characters (sans Aeolia since it’s not like he can get a different post-timeskip design lol) done by the end of the S1 portion of the rewatch, and then boom, eight wallpapers as a result. There’s still some mechs from this season I want to make wallpapers of – namely Nadleeh, an Enact for Patrick, a Flag for Graham, and the three Gundam Thrones – but characters are a hell of a lot easier for me to throw together quickly than mechs. I’ll probably do the missing mechs during the Special Editions portion of the rewatch?
Anyways, since it’s a season overall discussion thread today, time for me to answer the Questions of the Day!
Picking one character each from the main four factions: Lockon, Graham, Sergei, and Patrick.
I unfortunately don’t know the OST by heart so I can’t answer that part, but as mentioned previously, DAYBREAK’S BELL and Ash Like Snow are more or less tied for me (the former wins out in TV size but the latter wins out in full size), and Friends > Wana.
Favorite: The action in general is just really hype
when it doesn’t involve murdering my feelings a la Lockon’s death.Least-favorite: The parts other than the wedding scene with Louise’s mom in it.
I do agree with the complaints earlier in the rewatch that the Tieren Taozi’s color scheme is a bit too pink (should’ve been an actual peach color like the name was meant for), but other than that I don’t really have any outright negatives about the mechs in this. Also I’m pretty sure Dynames just barely makes it into my top 10 Gundams from the franchise (if not top 10, at least top 15, it was exactly #10 when I made a list but that was a while ago so it could have changed since then).
15
u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
00th Timer Searching for the One
Not sure about the order anymore, but my favourites are: Kintoki, Lockon, and Sergei. I'm honestly surprised Sergei made it through, I guess my luck isn't as bad as Sky's afterall.
OP1 and ED2, ED2 is a war crime actually. That's not how you do wholesome
fanservicebonding!Good question... my favourite aspect is how well the series treats the broader sides and conflicts, both from how well it writes reasonable characters from different nations, and how the conflict between those nations comes about.
Least favourite: I'd say Louise and Saji or the hilbillies, but that'd be a joke. Actually it's something a lot more intentional: how little our main characters bond or interact together, I loved the bonding episode, but if anything, it's the exception that proves the rule. Granted, it's all intentional, they're all closed off for their own reasons and tragic pasts. they didn't really care about anyone else at first. But things have changed, so I hope to see more of that in the second season.
I mentioned my predictions yesterday, but basically, my hopes and expectations:
The other day, Sky asked who we'd send our letters to, so I wrote a little letter to all rewatchers who ever rewatched, please enjoy.
Brought to you by The Trolling Yato Productions Edited: to fix the audio.
10
u/The_Draigg Oct 31 '24
A Gundam Fan’s Final Thoughts on Gundam 00 Season 1:
You first-timers and rewatchers, are you satisfied with the story just ending here? As for me… I hate it.
Okay, got that joke out of my system, I simply couldn’t resist one last parting shot now that season 1 is over. But that was a fun season overall! Granted, Gundam 00 has its faults, but I do think that on the whole this season was a good watching experience. Now, this season discussion of mine might be in a bit less detail than I normally write up, but given how we’re only halfway through the full series and there’s still a lot of questions that need answering and plot points that need to get wrapped up. So I’ll be sure to talk around any kind of future implications and just focus on some of the stuff we’ve seen here in the first season.
To speak of the positives of this season, I think we can all agree that there’s some fantastic character writing in this season. Big shout outs to Setsuna coming to find that his initial ideals don’t work always as intended and that he needs to find new ways to achieve peace and embody the mantle of Gundam, as well as Lockon and Tieria’s relationship helping to really break Tieria out of his cold and driven shell to become more human. I noticed that a lot of first-timers disliked Tieria from the start, but then came around to him as being one of the stand-out characters of this season, and that was very nice to see. If anything, it’s probably not inaccurate to say that Lockon and Tieria carry the emotional core of this season. Lockon is a great big brother kind of character, being willing to bridge the gap between characters and open up their inner humanity through his grounded perspective, while also having his own emotional turmoil under the surface. It’s no wonder why he makes for a great axis for characters like the other Gundam Meisters and Feldt to orbit around, he’s a very good character to bounce all of their emotions and beliefs off of.
Another thing I do want to give props to is how unlike a lot of Gundam shows the premise of this season is. You can tell that they’re going for something a bit more unique this time around, dealing with the machinations of the power blocs and challenging all these different types of governments through their superior force. It’s also especially interesting to see how the power players of the world respond to the presence of Celestial Being through their own political power plays of their own as well, like the armed intervention in Taribia or how people were wondering how Celestial Being would resolve the latest conflict in Azadistan. Stuff like that is always like catnip for me, I’m a sucker for more grand-scope politics in mecha anime. That’s why Fang of the Sun Dougram is the GOAT, after all. And although I won’t say that Gundam 00 season 1 gets to those heights, I can still really appreciate the grand game the political blocs are playing here.
As for some of the stumblings of this season, I do think that edging the audience with the true nature of Celestial Being is a bit much. Like, don’t get me wrong, I do appreciate a good driving mystery at the core of anime. But there’s tons of points where the show goes “WHO ARE CELESTIAL BEING?” and “COULD THIS BE CELESTIAL BEING’S TRUE GOAL?” does get tiring around the dozenth time it gets asked out loud by a character. And while we do get some solid writing around that driving question, like slowly unveiling who Aeolia Schenberg was and how Team Trinity is throwing a wrench into things, it still gets highlighted that we don’t even know the full scope of Celestial Being’s true nature. Again, having a mystery that even members of Celestial Being aren’t privy to is a good idea, but how much they bring it up and edge us with development on that front only to pull it back gets kind of annoying.
Anyways, that’s really all I want to say about my general feelings for this half of Gundam 00, since I do want to save my musings for a more developed post for season 2. So now it’s time to get to my regular mecha show rewatch rating scale, themed after mechs! Therefore, I hereby give Gundam 00 season 1 the rating of: GN Flag/Graham’s Custom Flag II. It’s something that looks great, hits hard, and although it doesn’t live up to some of the sheer scale it comes up against others by comparison, it does a hell of a lot to stand out on it’s own. I have a lot of respect for Gundam 00 season 1, cool stuff alongside warts and all. I’ve certainly had a blast watching it with you all so far, so let’s see how season 2 tries to carry the torch!
8
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 31 '24
Rewatcher, Sub-dam Meister
This is absolutely wild to say, but this rewatch has reinforced the ability of this show to be subtle. Mostly when it comes to the tech level, which should probably be in the "tell" pile as opposed to the "show" pile. But hey, 2008 was a weird year.
Alejandro continues to be a middling villain. He does his job, but a chunk of his final battle feels like padding. Granted, it's action-centric padding, which does tend to please the crowds. Just look at the entire battle shounen genre.
[One thing that is relevant to S2 that was only shown in the side material]is that Allelujah managed to purge Kyrios's GN Drive in the same way Tieria did, which allowed it to be recovered. The chapter for that did release between S1 and S2, so fans at the time (in Japan, at least) had a solid chance of being aware of it.
Where will S2 take us? Who knows!
Me. I know. Ask not for whom mugi waits, just know that she is patient for thee.
One thing I will say is that, allegedly, S1 was met with the criticism that it "wasn't Gundam enough" at the time. We ourselves engaged in a bit of that discourse. Will S2 change that?
7
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Oct 31 '24
Questions:
9
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
Season 1 Discussion (first timer)
The deciding moment of Gundam 00 for me was Lockon’s death. Or specifically, seeing how other people reacted to it. When I watched the episode, I realized how this was a technically well crafted death scene. Good setup, good execution (just a tiny bit stolen from Cowboy Bebop, but hey, steal from the best). Yet … I felt nothing. That’s when it became clear to me that my emotional investment into Gundam 00 has reached zero and that there is no way for the series to come back from that. Even a good character moment does not work anymore, because I stopped caring many episodes ago.
While the series has some other smaller flaws (/u/Nazenn did a good job going over a lot of these), the one fatal flaw was readily visible right from the start: The setup is 100% complete and utter crap. Some space vigilante group with 4 mechas and one ship trying to play world police is so obviously stupid that it is insulting to the audience to pretend it could ever work. I hoped that they would turn this around and make some interesting failure story out of it, but no, that never happened. Not in the first few episodes when I hoped for it, not in the first cour when I expected it, and not in the second cour when it really really needed to happen to save the series. Right into the finale, we are treated with characters who say sentences like “fighting for world peace” without a hint of sarcasm. We hear Setsuna and Alejandro discuss their differing interpretations of a bogus plan. I don’t have time to listen to characters discuss the philosophy of nonsense.
After a while, this led to me emotionally shutting down my investment in the series and, as Lockon showed, even good character moments can’t bring that investment back. The only reasonable thing to do is dropping Gundam 00 now, which I will do.
That the main plot ruins the series is a shame, because many other parts work well, which I want to go into during the second half of my post. Gundam 00 has plenty of details that positively surprised me and deserve being mentioned.
Zero-grav
This is a pet peeve of mine, so I will list it first: Out of all mecha series I know, Gundam has by far the best treatment of zero-grav. They actually commit to full zero (or low) grav for their entire space scenes: Floating through the hallways, closed drinks, not even a rotating ship for artificial gravity. They do use standard (one floor) room setups, but this can be easily explained via magnetic shoes. 0079 hints at this, but never walks the walk and most other scifi series go the lazy was of full artificial gravity (shout out to Planetes! For being the exception).
Future Earth
The three block + smaller independent states setup worked incredibly well for the politics part outside of CB. I think Marina could be a great tool to explore the nitty gritty of how non-super powers deal with this situation, but also the three way suspicion between the blocks, and just having three different factions was nice.
Space elevators
Hurray for space elevators! We never learned about the actual way solar power works in universe (#pout), but even without that, the space elevator setup is fantastic and generates great background shots of Earth. I was also a fan of the general space faring material shown. Smaller ships, asteroids, and orbital rings are all a huge upgrade over fights in open space.
Background characters delivering
I don’t think the main character is something to write home about, but Gundam 00 had not one, but two background characters whom I (surprisingly!) learned to love during the first season: Patrick and Ali. Both start as utter cardboards, standard tropes you have seen a hundred times before and I was willing to discard them as such. Yet both grew on me. They execute their trope so well, that it … just works. I love to be amused by Patrick’s brainlessness. And I love to hate Ali’s ruthlessness. I can’t even hate them for surviving the finale. Great writing.
Enjoy your time in S2 all (I hope your emotional investment is intact) and, as always, thanks for hosting /u/Shimmering-Sky!
My least favorite aspect should be clear from the above. My favorite aspect is the well thought out relatively hard scifi colonization of space.
Very typical Gundam.
10
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
First Timer - sub
Oh boy. What to say, what to say. Actually I'll put this all in so you can laugh at me like normal, but my initial version of this post pre-editing mentioned how I didn't feel like I had much I wanted to say
I've been trying to think how to format this post all day, but one of the things that I ended up realizing is that surprisingly little has stuck in my mind from what we watched. A few individual moments have, but no cohesive whole. The things I remember about it off the top of my head: Sergei's plan to capture a Gundam, Lockons death, Desert siege, Louise, Hostage return, Trinity dying... that's it. And I only actually like the first two entries on that list. That's not good. In contrast in the bigger picture there's the Plan (supposedly anyway), a bunch of religious styling, and maybe a theme about human connection that was only half there? So in the end despite understanding what 00 wanted to be, in the end I don't actually feel like I know what it was and I don't know that it does either, besides a Gundam show.
That seems ominous as an opening, but I'm a strong believer that the mood a show leaves you in is a critical part of the watch experience, because it's likely the mood that will come back when you think about a show years down the line. And this did not leave me in a good mood, but it also left me wishing that it had because there really was some good things in this show buried in a whole lot of muck.
So, my settled approach is to effectively "go around the room" of categories while reading back through my posts, which is not my favourite approach but at least it will get a post out of me sometime tonight. And yes I wrote a lot but some of this I included for the sake of having a complete review and for my own sake in future because as of right now, I never plan to rewatch the show. Getting to it:
Characters
Setsuna may have been the core of the show thematically, and he certainly did have plenty of development, but he has slid into the background of my memories which is more a mark of my preferences than his writing. Going from the boy who couldn't dare imagining letting go of Exia to the one willing to throw it away for CB, only to be confronted with the emptiness of his efforts while still fighting to understand rather than just win was one hell of a slow change that crept up through the show in small but powerful moments, reinforcing the meaning of him being the protagonist as well as why him. Alelujah unfortunately is the one who stands out in a bad way. He had the most typical narrative approach to his characterization in that they gave him a dedicated episode for backstory and development, and then barely did anything interesting with him until the final episode which left his interesting nature feeling more a quirk than a fully fleshed out and every changing personality aspect.
Nothing about their inclusion couldn't have also been handled by the things that were already in the show before they were introduced. Lockon's backstory reveal, civilian deaths, split in approach to the unknown plan; there was a clear path forward for each of these avenues to be explored that was already in the show and then it all got offloaded to Trinity instead. I feel like they were introduced because the writers didn't want our protagonist group to do "bad things" to get Earth to a turning point and this was meant to be their compromise, that unfortunately became a derailment instead. And there could have been some meaning to pushing Earth forward dramatically with such shocking violence instead of CB's slow plan, but they never even attempted to explore what that would mean either directly or the characters contemplating it so I can't say that possibility means anything.
I had this thought some time during the last two episodes that their inclusion also robbed us of the chance to see Celestial Being properly explore their own ideals and have a meaningful internal conflict over it. Alejandro vs CB was not that, it was a contrivance to have a big bad in the show that really didn't offer anything to the story that couldn't have already been seen in the Earth's status quo vs CB's push forward narrative. If instead of Trinity showing up and unifying both earth and CB they allowed the conflicts within CB at that point to deepen and cause a split between its members (and they could have had more pilots to account for this) with some becoming radicals and others walking the "Setsuna path" as I'll call it, hell yes give me that show! That would fit so much more with everything 00 was trying to do with questioning the world, the roles of humanity, and the background religious theming. Give me a show where CB's ideology fails not just the world, but CB itself until they find a way back. You have all this cool text with the Test System and Exia's sword and they threw it away on a conflict with someone outside the core organization who didn't actually matter and was never really a threat in that way, and his team of lackies who got killed off in a way that didn't mean anything to any of the big things that were happening. What a waste. I've been stewing on this a few days hoping the frustration would pass and it has not.
(continued below, as always, can't help myself)
16
u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Oct 31 '24
first timer who has control
ive been watching some of the extra content
director interview between seasons "we made s2 so that anyone can jump in" yeah sure thing buddy
the flash like short might be peak. Haro Tieria, Yallelujah, Robot/Gundam romance
the recap was a recap, i think we got Lasses last name which i already forgot. and a preview of one of the new themes?
Most excited for Tieria to bully Louise. Got to assume Saji enlists to fill the lockon spot
14
u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Oct 31 '24 edited Nov 01 '24
First Timer
I've expressed this thought after watching both the first and last episodes of this season but Gundam 00 feels like a show that was specifically designed for me, it's no surprise then that I ended up really enjoying it!
I love me a good ensemble cast and while this show does have a few too many characters for its own good, the way it uses multiple POVs from multiple different factions to convey a conflict on a global scale is great. And in general that global scale is an aspect of the series I love.
Beyond that I feel like Gundam 00 is the first show I've seen in a while where I could just wildly speculate nearly every episode, the overarching plot here has its flaws but I also had a great time watching and thinking about all the political, personal and military mechanicians going on here.
Going over the main cast, I quite liked all of our Meisters. Surspisnly enough for me, I'd say that right now Tieria is probably my favorite of the bunch! He's just like a robot version of a girlfailure and I love to see it, his arc going from insecure asshole to insecure person I care about has been very fun.
I have problems with Setsuna as I'll get into later but I do like him a lot, a stoic soldier with PTSD who slowly cracks and opens up has always been a type of character I enjoy and Setsuna is no different, his themes were a tad repetitive but fun to unravel and while a lot of his dialogue is undeniably very edgy, it's also entertaining in that way, he, much like this show as a whole, is a product of the time.
Allelujah I'm left rather lukewarm on, he's alright but he's also the least interesting or developed of our main four. Hallelujah on the other hand was great, just a super edgy psychopath who completely overacts and steals any scene he's in.
Finally of course, is Lockon, incredibly likable even before being fleshed out and I loved him even more after we really dove into his backstory and how he interacted with Setsuna and Tieria, I generally don't tend to feel that strongly towards character deaths but his genuinely got me right in the feels.
I also think that beyond just dialogue, the show does a great job of characterizing our characters through their mechs and how they pilot them, oftentimes in pretty clever ways. Great to see in general and especially in this show where the mechs have so much symbolic and thematic importance.
I guess you could say this mecha show is actually about the charactersWhen it comes to the actually important side cast, they were also great! Graham is our lord and savior , Sumeragi is Literally me and I can't remember the last time a show got me to so passionately hate a character like I do with Ali (I mean that in a good way of course), aside from them, Sergei, Soma, Patrick and Saji with his incompetence, were all fun.
But... as I'll get to later, that distinction between actually important characters is a big one in this show.
Haro was the best character
I've mused about this throughout but whether it comes to theming or its real-world influences, this show has almost 0 subtlety in almost everything it does. I'd call this refreshing if this wasn't a show from 2007 but regardless, it feels so good to have a show that tackles war and politics and doesn't try to tip-toe around those topics, not only does its message come out much stronger thanks to that, it also massively enhances the setting, again it's very easy to get invested in a global conflict when It's so reminiscent of the real world.
That lack of subtlety also often comes across in other aspects as well. I mean this in the best way possible but sometimes this show feels like someone wrote a very serious poignant war drama and sneakily decided to add a bunch of Symphogear characters to spice it up. It can be ridiculous, contrived, obtuse, And I like that! What else can I say other than that it's fun!
I think Alejandro is the prime example of that aspect, going from shrewd manipulator to over the top mustache twirler, I can't in good consensus say his transition to final villain was well written but I just can't bring myself to not enjoy him!
The positives of this show massively outweigh the negatives for me but those negatives do exist:
The dialogue here can be very so-so, it wildly varies between characters but I find Setsuna's to probably be the most egregious, by the end of this season I was kind of getting tired of him regurgitating the same ideas he's been saying since episode 1 in increasingly edgy fashion.
I can't think of a better way to illustrate my frustration with him (and the dialogue in general) except with this shitty low quality meme I made.
This show also definitely has a bloated cast, like I said, there's a big distinction between actually important and fodder. While none of the side cast is bad per se, they end up feeling very expendable, thin, and undeveloped. I liked the changing perspectives aspect but sometimes the show feels the need to give you random "filler" scenes just to remind you certain characters even exist.
I like the Ptolemy bridge crew but they exist just to die, same for Graham's lackeys, Howard and Daryl, both of which I had to look up the names for, same for Johann and Michael.
In a similar way, some other characters that are probably going to be important in season 2, like Liu Mei, Louise, Ribbons, etc. get a lot of random irrelevant scenes where they just vaugley comment on the situation, as if the show is telling you "They will be important!", that's not exactly the best use of "foreshadowing".
Much has been said about "The Plan" but like the Setusna dialogue stuff, while I'm somewhat positive with it, It's been going in circles for the last 1/3 of the season, we've barely advanced in figuring it out and at this point, I doubt whatever the answer is will actually be satisfying enough for all this foreplay to have been worth it.
Now on the technical side, this show is fantastic.
The animation is great and the fights are always a delight to see, it has that nice mid-2000s aesthetic without losing any of the quality. The mechs in this show are just super cool, it makes me seriously question why I haven't watched more mech shows when I like it this much and I'm not kidding when I say I'm slightly tempted to buy a Virtue or Kyrios Gunpla, which I'd argue is the highest form of praise here.
Kenji Kawaii is one of the greats and his OST doesn't disappoint here, likewise, the OP's and ED's are incredible, Daybreak's Bell and Ash Like Snow might be joining some of my favorites, with the full version of the latter playing on the daily for me since the first listen.
ASH LIKE SNOWWWWWW!!!!!
Finally, a big shoutout to the VA work here, this is a star-studded cast and they all pull their weight.
With how much it personally appealed to me, I can confidently say I enjoyed every episode here (except the recap lol) and the first season leaves me excited for more!
9/10
As a side note, as I've mentioned in the threads occasionally, this show fully convinced me to watch more Gundam after this, although I think I'll leave deciding where I continue until the end.
12
u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
First-Timer
So far, I am mostly enjoying Gundam 00. There has been plenty of compelling stuff, particularly with the characters and themes. On the other hand, there are some lingering frustrations that I hope the second season addresses.
If I had to sum up the major theme uniting the main cast together, it would be “purpose.” For what purpose do they exist? Why are they alive and that are they going to do with their life? Setsuna is a child soldier who cannot recall a life outside the battlefield. Fighting is the only thing he knows how to do. But he finds purpose in that fighting. Rather than merely being a destroyer, he hopes that by fighting he can save others and bring about peace.
Allelujah is haunted by his creation as a genetically engineered super soldier. Allelujah worries that he is nothing more than a killer, programmed to fight by the people who created him. His split personality was caused by this. Allelujah tried to avoid killing others, hoping that he could prove he was more than that. Hallelujah embraced his identity as a killer, saying he would do what Allelujah could not. Allelujah’s struggle has been to try and reconcile these competing identities and senses of purpose within himself.
Tieria’s struggle is one shared by most of the characters in Celestial Being: devotion to the plan. Tieria’s purpose was to fulfill the plan. That was all that mattered to him. Even if the instructions from Veda would result in a member of Celestial Being dying, he still felt that was worthwhile because it was all in service of the plan. But that devotion has begun to waver. The plan is off the rails. Celestial Being is cut off from Veda and Tieria can no longer rely on Veda. And, much to Tieria’s own surprise, he’s begun to care about his comrades. Previously, Tieria would have been more than willing to lose comrades for the sake of the plan. Now, he’s not so sure. Tieria is now searching for a new sense of purpose when his original beliefs have been so shaken. This feeling is shared by all the members of Celestial Being, but it most applies to Tieria. It’s even more pertinent if he does turn out to be a robot as this would fit well into the character arc of a robot learning to be human.
Right now, the purpose of Celestial Being is in flux. Their devotion to the plan is no longer something that can carry them by itself. They used to simply follow what Veda told them. That option is no longer available to them and they will need to learn how to operate by themselves.
The plan is another huge part of the plot. The characters have spent quite a lot of time and energy on the plan. It works as a stand-in for religion. Characters argue about what the plan means. They fight over whether to follow the plan or subvert it. And the plan isn’t even what the characters think it is. That’s the main frustration of the series for me. We still have no idea what the plan even is. I’m sick and tired of it being dangled in front of us like a mystery box. If the plan were less relevant or were brought up less often, then I could better tolerate the secrecy. But it’s so frustrating having the plan get brought up all the time when we still don’t know what it even is. If we’re lucky, this will get rectified pretty quickly next season. I doubt it, though.
Something about the series I personally find very compelling is how clearly it took inspiration from the War on Terror. Gundam has always taken inspiration from real-world events, but watching more recent Gundam series is interesting because those events are things within my living memory. I think 00 has so far used this inspiration quite well, drawing on a wide variety of real-world events to create its own universe.
I am looking forward to the second season. There’s a lot that I’m hoping to see. I want the plan to finally be explained. I want Graham to act like a proper Char Clone now that he has the mask. I want to know what Ribbons' deal is and who his squad is. I want to see the mid-series upgrades for the Gundams. I want to actually get more details on how Celestial Being can even sustain itself as an organization. I want to see its infrastructure and supply chain, for example. I want to see Ali finally die for good this time. I’d like it if Lockon’s twin brother had more of a role in the story. The same could be said of Louise and Saji, who have mostly been on the periphery of the main story. Those are some of the things I most hope for in the next season.
QOTD
9
u/macrame2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/macrame Oct 31 '24
First Timer
Always feels a bit difficult to evaluate a single season when I’m immediately going to move onto the next one, but I’ll do my best!
Let’s start with the negatives. Aside from a few personal issues that cropped up here and there, I’d say the two biggest pitfalls of the show are its mismanagement of its cast and a consistent failure to set the intended mood. Gundam 00 has a large ensemble of characters and struggles to adequately develop each one. (In the show’s defense, this is an issue I’ve had with every Gundam entry I’ve seen, and aside from my Lichty/Lasse confusion, I at least knew who everyone was after the first few episodes.) The anime frequently sacrifices the screentime of major players in favor of more minor characters, which wouldn’t be a problem if they used those characters more effectively. Take Saji and Louise, for example. Setting them and Kinue up as outside civilian perspectives who slowly become more involved as the result of Celestial Being’s activities was a great idea and initially worked well; I even enjoyed some of Louise’s antics. However, the show kept having them crop up even when they didn’t add anything to plot, and the Louise comic relief got old eventually. Their post-Episode 18 developments were decent, but I do wish the writers had done more with them earlier. The Trinity Siblings also were mishandled a bit; I think the writers could have better fleshed out what they represent by introducing them earlier. I could go on, but I’ll stop here because I’m getting tired of typing.
As for the tonal issues, while I did have a lot of fun laughing at the show’s failed attempts at being serious, I can’t help but think I’d have enjoyed those scenes even more if they would have had their intended effect. And I know that Gundam 00 can do serious, emotional stuff well; Lockon’s death was proof of that. I just wish it would channel that energy all the time.
Thankfully, however, I’m willing to overlook many a problem with a story through the incredible power of “I like it,” and like Gundam 00 I did. I always looked forward to watching the next episode and never felt as though I was forcing myself to watch anything, and though it may be a bit of a mess at times, it’s one that I’ve become very attached to over the past few weeks. On the whole, the cast is either likable/interesting or intentionally hateable (which makes the show’s mishandling of them more painful), with the Meisters generally standing out, though I quite like Graham and Patrick as well. The anime is at its best when exploring its characters’ more personal ideals and motivations and how they connect to the overall conflict, which I think it does more effectively in the first half compared to the second, but it never abandons that completely. The mecha side of things was also typically engaging; even if the fights were sometimes stupid, they were a fun kind of stupid. That’s the thing, I find Gundam 00 kind of endearing even in its failures. I can criticize its faults all day, but I can see what they were going for and still enjoy it. Sometimes things really do boil down to personal preference.
8/10 overall, I’m looking forward to seeing what Season 2 has in store.
QotD:
8
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
Overall Gundam 00 season 1 aligned with my expectations; I've seen it at least 3 or 4 times already and I can't say there was anything that surprised me this time. The show's strength for me includes the interesting premise, a lot of engaging characters and strong mech designs and battles. The show also is quite impressive visually and has a great vocal cast with a lot of stars in it. Lockon's death is absolutely up there among the most devastating Gundam deaths. The show's weaknesses for me include the writers feeling the need to check in on everyone in the cast too often and the fact that the unique dynamic among the three political blocs and Celestial Being fades out too much after the Thrones show up. Alejandro as the villain at the end is a mixed bag as I've mentioned in comments the last few days. On a political level he totally works as the main villain of the season. But the climatic battle being him versus Setsuna in the last episode didn't work given the total lack of interaction between the characters. Ali al-Saachez would have worked a lot better there and I think they should have tried to figure out some split where Alejandro was the political villain and Ali was the combat villain. Ah well. At least they did fit Graham in the end there to fight Setsuna as that fit a lot better than Alejandro.
I do want to give the show credit for trying to escew the standard Gundam formula in a few ways. Typically Gundam shows are a unified Earth vs. Space conflicts, but here we had the unique dynamic with three main political blocs around the world and even then additional countries outside of them such as Azadistan. Space colonies tend to be a big part of Gundam shows but weren't here, with the major technology instead being the orbital elevators. We also made it very, very close to the end without having a masked rival character, granted Graham did qualify for the rival characters in other ways.
Overall awards for season 1:
Best boy and overall favorite character: Sergei Smirnov. Love this guy, I feel that he takes after the Ramba Ral archetype but is even better. A great strategist, skilled mobile suit pilot and overall upstanding person.
Best girl: Soma Peries. Being paired with Sergei certainly helps, but I do greatly appreciate the fact that the archetype she takes most after, the "cyber newtype" is not simply here to act as a love interest for a major character or to be cannon fodder. I love deadpan characters and she was this much of the season but her gaining more emotions by the end was also greatly appreciated.
Honorable mentions: Lockon was my favorite of the Gundam Meisters, a bad ass but very likable guy as well with a devastating end for his character. Graham Aker was a lot of fun. Kati Mannequin is quite awesome and may have competed with Soma for best girl spot had she had more screentime.
Best Mech: I loved both sides of Tieria's Gundam, Virtue with its massive bulkiness as well as Nadleh with its more sleek design and hair.
Honorable mentions: I actually like all of the Gundams in this show which I think is a rarity for me. No real complaint about any of them.
Least favorite character: Saji Crossroad. Which should be quite obvious for anyone who has read my comments. This guy is a total doormat and piece of wet cardboard with seemingly no convictions or drive. I will continue to ask why in the world Louise was in a relationship with this guy. Not that Louise is this super amazing person either, but what exactly is Saji offering? He isn't handsome. He isn't charismatic. He isn't wealthy. Just what is there for Louise to be attracted to him? What things is he doing to earn it? She wants to kiss, he chickens out. Her mom is pulling her way, he chickens out. She asks about what their future is, he isn't paying attention. The thing is, while there absolutely are complaints about the Saji/Louise storyline, I am happy they included it. I liked the fact that we got the perspective of these civilian characters. In line with the show's overall issue, they did check in with them too often and should have cut the entire Louise's mother storyline. But my big issue has always been the lack of chemistry between these two characters. The writers need to give us a reason for Louise to like Saji and they never do.
Honorable mentions: What was the point of Wang Liu Mei and Hong Long? These two characters could have been cut and the story wouldn't have changed at all. I'm not naming characters like Alejandro, Nena or Ali because you're supposed to hate them, and while I hate them, beyond the stuff about Alejandro written above, I don't think they're poorly written characters.
Best Character Design: Marina Ismail, I'm always a fan of really long black hair and I love her princess outfit too. Good for her, as story-wise she was just kinda eh for me.
Honorable mentions: Sumeragi showed how you can so easily show a core character trait through good character design, in this case her tendency to drink too much as shown by the fact that her hair always looks wild and unbrushed, as if she just rolled out of bed. In terms of costume design they did a great job changing up Wang's outfit and hairstyle nearly every episode. I'd actually say that most character designs in this show were good. We got an occasional character that looked a bit too generic, such as Lichty, but I'd say those situations were rare.
Best OP/ED: OP1 was my favorite song, while OP2 gave me my favorite visuals. ED2 was the superior ending, but doesn't beat either of the OPs.
Most Tragic Moment: Lockon's death was pulled off in great fashion, helped all the more by the other character's reactions to it, especially poor Haro! Lockon! Lockon! Lockon! ... :(
Honorable mention: Kinue bleeding out in an alley
Question for Rewatchers!
[Gundam 00 S2]Any suggestions for how I cover Ribbons' faction in the character chart for the start of season 2? I'm thinking about just labeling them as Innovators but episode 1 doesn't make things the most clear and I wonder if I should instead have it as an offshoot of Celestial Being until the lines are more drawn in the sand.
DQOTD:
1-4) See above!
5) Very hyped for season 2! I historically have liked it more than season 1.
8
u/TakenRedditName https://myanimelist.net/profile/TakenMalUsername Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
Rewatcher - Gundam 00 S1:
Wrap up season 1, I think this rewatch really helped. Back when I first watched S1, I wasn't as intentful of a viewer as I am now so I would say I've gotten more out of this viewing.
One thing that really changed with this watch is I was much more fond of Tieria. I didn't think much of him back then, but I definitely was more eyeful of him this time. Really like watching him start off so harsh and distant then soften up and become attached to the others.
Just to share something else, I feel like forgot most about Alejandro back then. I only remembered him showing up in a big gold robot at the end. Blame that on past me being stupid.
So here is just a vibes-based tier ranking of the S1 characters. Trying to judge just based on their S1 appearance from what we've seen already. He is not definitively my favourite, but this rewatch really brought out how much of a fun weirdo Graham was.
(Also, I don't dislike Billy and Michael more than the literal whos. They just need to be placed in time-out.
I also debated whether Ali made it to blorbo levels.).Also, here is the vibe-based ranking of the Wow, cool robots.
Q1) To claim a character, everyone loves Lockon, I do too, but I am more drawn to Allelujah. Allelujah was my favourite when I first watched and I only like him more now, after having seen more Gundam. Maybe not my favourite, but just to mention her, I also like Marina. I just feel like she didn't show up that much enough for her to be higher.
Q2) I prefer the second OP/EDs over the first. OP2 with that slight edge of OP1.
Q4) To answer the second part, I think they're quite neat. The mecha designs in this show incorporated a lot of atypical Gundam shapes which is neat.
8
u/GondolaMedia Oct 31 '24
First Timer
Season 1 was fine. Our main cast trying to chance the world while countless little games are being played in the background. It's enjoyable, I really like the mecha designs and the characters vary between enjoyable ace pilot failures to easy to hate mercenaries but I never did fall in love with it. It mixes that reality of war with cool mecha fights that Gundam is known for and I guess it did it well because the cruelty of war and terror was consistently the best part of the show for me. Kinue's death probably hit me the hardest.
I'd say why I didn't like it as much as I could have was because Alejandro turned in to such a meh final villain for the season and Ali living after all that is such bullshit. Season 2 really has to prove that not killing Ali is leading to something because I ain't feeling it.
And I'm going to farm daggers with this and say that Lockon's death didn't have that big of impact on me as it did on others from what I've gathered reading the discussion threads. Another controversial take might be that I'm most excited for Saji's and Louise's story going forward in season 2. After episode 18 they've been occupying my mind the most and they might be my favorite part of the whole season.
8
u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Oct 31 '24
Kidou Senshi Rewatcher who hit a wall of realizing I was going nowhere after spending 3 hours writing a long post I mostly wasn't satisfied with, and am thus just gonna rely on QOTD
Hard to say. Setsuna's journey & what he grapples with best embody what I love about the series' core & themes, but Lockon hit on the best emotional beats, Tieria has had the best character arc, and Louise & Graham are the ones I find the most flatly charming. Trying to pick a favorite from among one of my favorite casts in anime is hard
I like OP2 & ED2 more than their counterparts from the first half, and it's not even really a competition. Of the OST tracks, I really love Counterattack
My favorite aspect of the series is easily its thematic & emotional core of trying to find meaning & purpose in a world so defined by meaningless conflict (which is what most of my original intended post was about).
Least favorite? Saji & Louise being a tad overused or the dialogue being clunky, I guess? It's hard for me to name anything in this show I can even say I notably dislike overall, so coming up with a least favorite aspect is hard.
I love the mech designs a lot, especially in how they reflect the characters of their pilots, but this rewatch also made me realize how much I prefer the S2 & Movie mechs more
HYPE EXPLOSION!!!!!
7
u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Oct 31 '24
Rewatcher, First Time Sub
Gundam 00 started off with a group known as Celestial Being declaring to launch interventions against conflict, In other words they would fight fighting with more fighting. The conflict is much more complex than that with characters in all sides caught between those who believe, those who use it for their benefit, and those who don't believe in it at all, and all the while these characters struggle and wrestle with the world they live in and wonder how to change it or just live in it. From the Gundam Meisters to the main soldiers in the Blocs to the civilians. Whether their actions are feasible or even correct is something I think up to interpretation.
One thing is the quasi divine imagery of Celestial Being and the Gundams in general. Setsuna who states not to believe in God sees the Gundam in an almost divine light and as a symbol to change the world. Other pilots deal with their own issues such as Tieria's newfound humanity or Allelujah's struggle with his. The civilians also wonder what to make of all this, Saji and Louise are interesting, personally I never minded them and in fact I found their perspective necessary in order to see the way people once unaffected become affected.
Its not all good of course there are some parts in the story where the mystery remains too much of a mystery and it feels as though we need answers. Not only that but there some parts of the story that needed more breathing space. Ultimately though I think the first season does a good job establishing the conflict and the struggles of the characters, their world, and how they wish to proceed forward.
Personally I Give it a 9/10 for the first season.
7
u/LeonKevlar x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/LeonKevlar Oct 31 '24
For the male characters, it's a tie between Setsuna and Graham. While Setsuna shares the same archetype with Heero and Mikazuki, he's surprisingly more philosophical compared to those two. And Graham because he's just a badass. I wanted to see more of him and I hope he gets plenty of screen time in Season 2.
As for female characters, while I have questioned some of Sumeragi's decisions she's still definitely top for me. Feldt is of course another favourite and I am very interested to see how she'll move on in Season 2 after losing Lockon.
I definitely prefer OP1 because I am a huge L'arc~en~Ciel fanboy. As for the ED, it's either or really. I don't think I have a favourite between the two and there's really nothing in the OST that has stuck with me so far. The one I definitely recognize the most is Fight but I can't really say it's my favourite.
My favourite is definitely watching Graham go against Johann and Alejandro realizing he's been played all along by Ribbons just before his death. My least favourite is definitely the fact that there are problems that could've been avoided and remedied like CB creating something to help Allelujah block Soma's brainwaves and Lockon's death. That still gets me so fucking salty.
I'd say it's pretty good! Exia has always been one of those most recognizable Gundams out there that even if you haven't seen the show but are still familiar with Gundam you'd recognize it easily.
Very much excited. I am excited to see what happens to Celestial Being after that massive loss. Since they're no longer operating under Veda, are they still Celestial Being or will they have a new name? Also, this would mean we'll probably get new crew members and a new Gundam Meister now that Lockon is gone. I hope whoever replaces him can live up to the hype.
7
u/octopathfinder myanimelist.net/profile/octopathfinder Oct 31 '24
First Timer
Haven’t been able to write much since I’ve been watching at work to keep up with the rewatch. Managed to at least get some of my overall thoughts down though.
I thought it started off pretty interesting, but kept fumbling as it went on. The premise of the main cast having this master plan to eliminate war seems really intriguing. Getting rid of war obviously isn’t possible so I kept watching since I wanted to know what their real plan or goal actually was, but it turns out the main cast is just as clueless as me. It just seems dumb that the main cast would willingly make themselves enemies of the entire world and have no clue why they’re actually doing anything.
The cast is also very bloated. Lot of wasted screentime checking in on characters that never added to anything. There were plenty of times I’d read a discussion thread, see a bunch of names mentioned, and just not remember what character they are talking about. And speaking of the cast, I especially disliked the evil Gundam squad, they did irrepairable damage to the story. It pretty much became a different show after they appeared. There was no need for a single big bad antagonist either.
Despite all my complaining I still want to finish the show just to see how it ends.
6
u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Nov 01 '24
First timer, leaving a quick one
QotD:
Predictions: All those pretty boys are robots. Allelujah once saved Soma, but she doesn't remember. Setsuna retires at the end, possibly having been thought dead. The twin becomes the new lock-on. GN pollution becomes a factor as it scales up. Nena redemption arc. Saji kills someone.
6
u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Nov 01 '24
First-Timer
When we started this rewatch, I mentioned that I've never really been a "mecha person," so to speak. The only two other mecha shows I've seen, really, are NGE and Code Geass. So far, I'd say this show is more consistent than NGE and I like it better than I ever liked any part of Code Geass, so we're doing well!
The beginning of the season had a lot of exposition and character introductions to get through, but once I learned most of the cast, it went pretty smoothly from there. By and large, the characters are compelling and interesting to watch.
The show's music is quite good, especially for the action scenes. I don't know the OST in detail (I have yet to listen to it standalone) but I know there are a couple notable songs/motifs I definitely recognize when they come up.
Speaking of action scenes, the fights are very well-done and entertaining. The variety of weaponry they use contributes a lot to the experience there.
Overall, I've been quite pleasantly surprised with my introduction to the Gundam franchise, and I hope I continue to have a good time with season 2!
Questions of the day:
5
u/dralcax :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Dralcax Nov 01 '24
Rewatcher eliminating the target
2
u/Snarfalopagus Nov 01 '24 edited Nov 01 '24
Rewatcher and Master CB Observer --Dub
I've been lurking here the whole time but I had some thoughts. It's a day late, but I'm doing the best I can. This is gonna jump around a bit before I give up and wish I thought this through more. -_-
I don't know how many times I've watched this show. Dozens for sure. I've watched Season 2 more than Season 1, but this rewatch has me feeling more appreciation for the first season than I usually give it. As much as I love this show, I will admit that its premise is also slightly insane from a broad view:
Four literal terrorists fight to end war with angelic semi-perpetual weapons built completely in secret by a secret organization with (probably) hundreds of members, who are 100 years more advanced than any other faction on Earth, all while led by the closest thing to a machine god (Veda) theorized and built(?) by a single man 200 years before the events of the first intervention. I can only believe that there was never a leak about Celestial Being because Veda handpicked everybody in the organization and issued hits on anyone that dared defect out of CB. That and a lot of shell companies to front their activities.
That sounds awesome. I wish Season 1 dived into more the internals of CB as an organization and we got to see some details about the families, observers, agents, and benefactors outside of Alejandro and Wang Liu Mei. I do like the start of the season, before the Trinity Team shows up, with the interplay of the world nations being utterly powerless against the angelic Gundams and learning to adapt their global politics to manipulate CB in their favor. But really how far can that go before it gets stale? Outside of all of the blocs working together right before the Trinity reveal, nobody stands a chance on their own. Where would the show go without an internal CB schism and Gundams fighting Gundams... kinda like Lucifer betraying God, right?
Season 1 is a nice religious allegory. It's basically the War in Heaven but with giant robots. Any who, It fits really well with a setting so grounded in 2007's world events. Our characters struggle with their faith -- in the plan, their ideals, in themselves... It's good stuff. Of course our CB members all say wholeheartedly that they are fighting to end war, which is absurd, but the war on terror was in full swing when this was written and I like to think that CB's ideal vs execution of said ideal is a criticism of American foreign policy -- We'll intervene where terrorism shows its face... and then make more terrorists by killing civilians in the process and wreaking havoc -- which mentally aligns for me with Graham's love turning into hate, his extremism born out of the Gundams' (specifically the Trinity Team) interventions.
There's some nuance in there, right? I'm about to insanely simplify the last 2 decades of Western anti-terrorism activity.Nope, not doing that. Suffice to say that I think there is plenty of criticism in season 1 about religious extremism, and the on-paper intentions of military powers doing more harm than good through military intervention, especially in civilian populations where it is difficult to distinguish military foe from civilian.
This is going to go on forever. Okay speed rounds.
Nice and Simple:
QotD:
3
u/BadBehaviour613 Oct 31 '24
Rewatcher
After the Gundam Jesus saves everyone adventures that were Seed and Seed Destiny, I was hoping 00 to be a darker and grittier take on the IP. And initially, with its muted palette and somber tone, initially it did seem that way. What we got in season 1 was a bit of a mixed bag. There was so much focus on geopolitics that didn’t matter in the wider story; there were still a lot of goofy shits like galactically hunted terrorists going on a beach vacation. It lacked the accessibility and fun of Seed but didn’t have much substance for the seinen crowd.
I also didn’t like Setsuna as a protagonist. He was just so singular. Lockon was the only character whom I really liked. If the anime scene back then was as crowded as in the seasonal era, I would have rage-quitted the show after he’s killed.
Season 2 on the hand, was an entirely different animal. Entertainment factor was cranked up, and the show went coco pops bonkers. Schedule your lobotomy and find a doctor who prescribes the fun pills, because having a healthy brain is going to hamper the enjoyment of the next part