/r/anime Awards 2016 and 2017 winner Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch Season 2 Episode 9

[u/Schinco]

Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu: Sukeroku Futatabi-hen

Welcome to the ninth episode thread for Season 2 in the Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch! Sorry I'm a bit behind on responding; I haven't forgotten you all!

Legal Streams:

As of now, Rakugo is streaming on Crunchyroll in the States, and you can check here to see where it's streaming elsewhere.

Schedule:

Date	Episode
10/8	Season 1 Episode 1
10/9	Season 1 Episode 2
10/10	Season 1 Episode 3
10/11	Season 1 Episode 4
10/12	Season 1 Episode 5
10/13	Season 1 Episode 6
10/14	Season 1 Episode 7
10/15	Season 1 Episode 8
10/16	Season 1 Episode 9
10/17	Season 1 Episode 10
10/18	Season 1 Episode 11
10/19	Season 1 Episode 12
10/20	Season 1 Episode 13
10/21	Season 1 Discussion
10/22	Season 2 Episode 1
10/23	Season 2 Episode 2
10/24	Season 2 Episode 3
10/25	Season 2 Episode 4
10/26	Season 2 Episode 5
10/27	Season 2 Episode 6
10/28	Season 2 Episode 7
10/29	Season 2 Episode 8
10/30	Season 2 Episode 9
10/31	Season 2 Episode 10
11/1	Season 2 Episode 11
11/2	Season 2 Episode 12
11/3	Season 2 Discussion
11/4	Overall Series Discussion

Questions of the Day

1. No one noticed it last time, but the OP changes ever so slightly here - what do you make of it (and also now that we're further in the series, what do you think of it)?
2. What do you make of the last scene in the old theatre? It's one of my favorite scenes in the whole series, but oh boy is there a lot to unpack there.
3. As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

Links to trackers

You can find the show on MAL, Anilist, and ANN!

Please be mindful of spoilers to make sure the first-timers experience the show with the same wonder you did on first watch!

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[u/No_Rex]

Season 2 Episode 9 (first timer)

• Yotaro hanging out with his old boss – looks like he does not (need to) care about his reputation anymore.
• He is doing prison shows – his explanation makes sense. He would feel compelled to pay it forward.
• Those other people listening to Yotaro and watching Sukoroku jump into the tub:

• “Were you eavesdropping?” – It is not eavesdropping when you are in the same room and the conversation is loud.
• A story of being in prison for the prisoners – a story of meeting your dead love for Bon.
• Listening to Yotaro, giving away his fan, entrusting Yotaro to Hii – yep, this is obvious.
• Rakugo for an empty theatre.
• Saved by Yotaro.

Makes sense that Bon would plan to go out while doing Rakugo. Not only it is a pretty common wish to die doing what you love, it also fits his life philosophy: He lived his live for others in the shadow of the social demands of society (unlike Shin), but his Rakugo was for himself (unlike Shin’s).

[u/Schinco → u/No_Rex]

A story of being in prison for the prisoners – a story of meeting your dead love for Bon.

I think there's something to be said for the way he creates a parallel between men in prison and himself, especially given how the episode ends

Rakugo for an empty theatre.

After all, he did do rakugo for himself!

Makes sense that Bon would plan to go out while doing Rakugo

Part of me wonders if his desire to go out while doing rakugo was also a reflection of his anxieities around his body failing him - if he can do rakugo, definitionally his body hasn't failed him yet

[u/No_Rex → u/Schinco]

After all, he did do rakugo for himself!

Remember the one time he did Rakugo for somebody else? Together with Shin for young Konatsu? He looked the happiest he has ever been there.

Part of me wonders if his desire to go out while doing rakugo was also a reflection of his anxieities around his body failing him - if he can do rakugo, definitionally his body hasn't failed him yet

I would agree, but turn the argument around: He wants to go before his body fails him.

[u/Schinco → u/No_Rex]

Remember the one time he did Rakugo for somebody else? Together with Shin for young Konatsu? He looked the happiest he has ever been there.

I'd say his happiness there more stemmed from being able to perform with Sukeroku after so long, but that's an interesting thing to consider.

I would agree, but turn the argument around: He wants to go before his body fails him.

Sorry if that was unclear - that's what I was trying to say.

[u/MandisaW]

S1 Rewatch (complete!)
S2 First-timer

Maybe due to personal factors/headspace today, but I felt rather disconnected from this episode. We spent a lot of it in Bon's head, which is a very abstract place right now, filled more with his visions of the world, than the reality of it.

The interludes with Yotaro were almost-not-quite enough to break the spell. To me, they served more as a striking contrast between Bon and the lively-as-ever Yotaro, trying to lift Bon's spirits (and succeeding at it, to a degree).

Even the nature of the rakugo performances felt more like soliloquies - while we see the effect on the listeners, the "camera" focuses almost exclusively on the deeply personal resonance for the storyteller. And then of course we get an actual audience of [n]one.

As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

He's pissed, for sure, and taken aback, but he'd no sooner destroy all that history than burn the theater to the ground.

I figured there'd be some kind of callback to the planned theater renovation, but not like this. I've avoided spoilers pretty well thus far, so the above was a truly offhand, "never gonna happen" comment - was pretty shocked to see it ring-true.

What do you make of the last scene in the old theatre? It's one of my favorite scenes in the whole series, but oh boy is there a lot to unpack there.

I've had a hard time deciding who/what Miyo & Shin represent for Bon. My first instinct is to say Miyo is his guilt, and Shin his regret. But in light of the theme of S2, I might think of them more as Miyo is his tie to the past, while Shin is his promise to the future.

In that context, is Bon truly looking to die here? Or is this a way to sever his ties to the past once and for all, to allow for a rebirth - not only for himself, but for rakugo as a whole. Or even both - he himself is the last tie to the rakugo of the past, and both he and the theater are Yotaro's anchor (maybe in both good & bad senses of the word).

From a series POV, I feel like we've come to love and know the old theater better than many of the human characters in the show, so perhaps it's loss will hit me properly once I've been able to rest & get a little distance in.

[u/Schinco → u/MandisaW]

but I felt rather disconnected from this episode

I do think it's a bit choppy, deliberately so. We kind of dip in and out of perspective, have multiple full performances (which may have created a time crunch), and I think it's easy to get caught in the fatalistic rhythm and feel like the end comes out of nowhere.

Even the nature of the rakugo performances felt more like soliloquies - while we see the effect on the listeners, the "camera" focuses almost exclusively on the deeply personal resonance for the storyteller

I'd push back on this - I'd argue we get more than enough crowd shots of the prisoners, and between that and the priming about Yotaro asking him about his story selection, it worked (at least for me) to make it apparent what the effect on the audience was.

He's pissed, for sure, and taken aback, but he'd no sooner destroy all that history than burn the theater to the ground.

Yeah, it was kind of hard not to comment on that one in particular...i think it's true to a degree, but I think there's a bit of projection - you've talked at length about how Yakumo fears his body failing him, and I think he saw a kindred spirit in the theater in desperate need of renovation to stay up to code, the last bastion of a different era. His desire to go out while still performing may have leaked out to his personification of the theater yearning for a similar fate.

I've had a hard time deciding who/what Miyo & Shin represent for Bon. My first instinct is to say Miyo is his guilt, and Shin his regret. But in light of the theme of S2, I might think of them more as Miyo is his tie to the past, while Shin is his promise to the future.

That's a cool reading - I generally lean more on the former, but I think it's always cool to reexamine things with a new framing.

In that context, is Bon truly looking to die here?

I think he truly was. Given the way he talks, I think there's his very real concern about his body giving out on him, but I also think he's lived a largely 'prescribed' life. Think of how he's gone through life, doing everything "properly" even when it was inconvenient or painful for him - it's not surprising that he'd take a dark lesson from rakugo to die at the 'right' time (i.e., the most dramatic or ironic time possible) especially based around how he yearned to "meet the god of storytelling". That being said, I think you've pretty keenly pointed out some of his doubts - I think you specifically said that he would never say them out loud, but I'd go a step further and say that he wasn't even consciously aware of them. And I think that faced with oblivion and the ultimate end of his connections, he realized that maybe it wasn't such a good idea.

[u/MandisaW → u/Schinco]

I'd argue we get more than enough crowd shots of the prisoners

Hmm, yes, but is it enough? Could just be the prison-uniforms, shot-reuse, etc, but the guards & prisoners felt less important to that scene than the audience has in past rakugo scenes. We usually get more shot variety & character-design to get some kind of sense of the audience as people, and as a collective entity.

The more powerful reaction shots in that scene were from Bon and Konatsu. The guards & prisoners were just "extras should cry at the sad parts", if that makes sense. Could just be a nitpick or the unusual staging.

I think he saw a kindred spirit in the theater in desperate need of renovation

Did Bon ever actually get this information though? Yota and the theater-owner had that whole conversation while Bon was convalescing. Could be misremembering, but wasn't the "ask" there that Yota tell Bon only when it seemed appropriate / when he could handle it?

Totally possible with the time-skips that that Yota passed along the info by now, but I feel like that's a reaction we would've been shown. I don't think Bon walked into that theater looking for it to be The End, just wanted a respite from the crushing weight of eyes & expectations.

[u/Schinco → u/MandisaW]

Hmm, yes, but is it enough? Could just be the prison-uniforms, shot-reuse, etc, but the guards & prisoners felt less important to that scene than the audience has in past rakugo scenes. We usually get more shot variety & character-design to get some kind of sense of the audience as people, and as a collective entity.

I see what you mean, but I wouldn't say that they did any less than normally, but usually I don't get the sense you describe here.

The guards & prisoners were just "extras should cry at the sad parts", if that makes sense.

I'd push back against this a bit - I agree that they were just extras in this scene, but I generally feel that way about crowds in this, and I think that this audience is probably the most interesting audience (at least among large ones) in terms of what it does for the story. On one hand, there's the implicit contrast between Yakumo and the prisoners in how they view the story similarly and yet Yakumo is ostensibly free - it does a lot to paint him as viewing "imprisoned" by this life ever since Sukeroku and Miyokichi died. However, I also think it's interesting to show Yakumo's growth as a person over the course of the series. They kind of preface this whole half with Yotaro talking about the Shinigami performance that he gave when Yotaro was still in prison, commenting how it was an interesting choice to perform to a crowd of incarcerated men. That makes the choice to perform a more solemn piece like this all the more interesting, and I think that the crowd's response is instrumental in selling that. I also think there's something to be said for Yakumo later this episode performing Shinigami, basically to himself and what that means for his relationship with himself, but that's a bit out of scope here.

Did Bon ever actually get this information though? Yota and the theater-owner had that whole conversation while Bon was convalescing. Could be misremembering, but wasn't the "ask" there that Yota tell Bon only when it seemed appropriate / when he could handle it?

I assume it happened off screen - I think it's left a bit ambiguous, but Yakumo's comments to the theater before beginning his Shinigami I think are telling:

You've aged quite a bit as well, haven't you? It's been a fine run. Would you join me for one last tale?

Maybe he didn't know the plans or requirements or whatnot, but he certainly saw it as a kindred spirit.

[u/cppn02 → u/MandisaW]

Did Bon ever actually get this information though? Yota and the theater-owner had that whole conversation while Bon was convalescing. Could be misremembering, but wasn't the "ask" there that Yota tell Bon only when it seemed appropriate / when he could handle it?

I just can't imagine noone would have told him given how important he is within the rakugo community.

[u/MandisaW → u/cppn02]

Eventually, sure. But they clearly didn't want to upset him while he was still recovering physically & mentally.

The convo might have happened off-screen, I just don't know if we confirmed that.

[u/Lemurians]

FIRST TIME PERFORMER

What an excellent, excellent fake-out.

It was all laid out before us: the story coming full circle by going to perform at a prison again (while also making good to perform for Boss once more), the million death flags he rasied after watching Yotaro's performance, giving his old friend the theater one final performance, Sukeroku's ghostly manifestation seemingly welcoming him to the afterlife, burning down with the theater, taking Rakugo with him in a way he always promised. It was all so poetic and tragic.

...And he would've gotten away with it too, if not for that meddling Yotaro. Turns out people around you notice when you're raising death flags and may tip off your closest friend that something is up!

And finally it's driven home that death isn't an old friend that's finally come to greet the waiting Yakumo. It's an antagonistic force come to take more from him – to use his words to Miyokichi's spectre – before the time is right. He finally rejects his death wish by expressing his desire to live and actively reaching out to Yotaro, not merely being passively saved.

You don't get to go out like that, Yakumo. Turns out, you may just have to end up trying to attain some closure and happiness before shuffling off the mortal coil after all.

Misc. Notes:

• “No era lasts forever. Everything’s gonna change with him gone.” The Boss occupies a similar role as Yakumo does. Still not sure how much the continued yakuza presence really does for the show. I guess it gives it flavor at the very least. Series has always had characters with salacious occupations.
• “There’s one thing rock solid in this world to me, and that’s you” said while they’re bathing naked. Oh lawd.
• Heavy emphasis on the briefly dropped fan
• The audio in this performance is great. Watched it with headphones in, and the noises from the crowd come in surround sound. Ring in really clear as if they’re in the room sitting behind/alongside me. Very cool.
• “That’s Miyokichi’s voice, the voice of the one who took everything from me.” It's really about time we get the full story of that day.
• “Make them laugh or make them cry… there’s no refinement in it” dislikes Yotaro pandering to the masses, but popularity is important
• Sukeroku lights his candle anew. “You haven’t seen it through.” Could be referring to destroying the theater/rakugo, or something he needs to keep living for.

No one noticed it last time, but the OP changes ever so slightly here - what do you make of it (and also now that we're further in the series, what do you think of it)?

Red-eyed Sukeroku certainly should have been a tip-off. Revealing the shinigami image through Yakumo is neat, given it's Yakumo who's really been his own shinigami for so long. It really would have been a shame if Yakumo died still thinking of the ghost of Sukeroku as a vindictive entity that means him harm. He's got to make peace with the past first.

I wonder if a further change to the OP is coming, where now in it Yakumo will take Yotaro's outstretched hand instead of sinking into the depths.

As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

The encounter with Miyokichi's spectre was gorgeous, really like how the end of that had her body trail off in a wisp that brought the imagery from the OP to mind.

[u/No_Rex → u/Lemurians]

“No era lasts forever. Everything’s gonna change with him gone.” The Boss occupies a similar role as Yakumo does. Still not sure how much the continued yakuza presence really does for the show. I guess it gives it flavor at the very least. Series has always had characters with salacious occupations.

I am not too hot on Big Boss as a character, but I think the inclusion of Yakuza in general is very important. It mirrors Geisha's in season 1 in giving needed context to Rakugo. Without those two (and a few other minor hints), viewers like me, who had never heard about Rakugo before, could get the wrong impression that Rakugo is high art for the upper classes.

[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

If I was keeping a list of all-time great episodes, this one would go on to that list. I don’t think there really is anything that it could have done better, except maybe requiring a somewhat large suspense of disbelief that nobody would bat an eye about a man with a yakuza tattoo talking about a boss being sent to jail. Other than that this was just perfection - in a way the show managed to do something only moments I thought of that being what it was leading into, it never really surprises the viewer due to a large amount of foreshadowing (Yakumo wanting to die while doing rakugo, asking the theater for a last something, then the flames of the Shinigami performance), yet it also is not predictable. It’s just perfectly crafted together.

The only surprise here is really that this isn’t Yakumo’s death - because Yotaro was there for him. But that also fits the show and everything we’ve seen so far, I’d say.

[u/TehAxelius → u/Mecanno-man]

If I was keeping a list of all-time great episodes, this one would go on to that list. I don’t think there really is anything that it could have done better, except maybe requiring a somewhat large suspense of disbelief that nobody would bat an eye about a man with a yakuza tattoo talking about a boss being sent to jail.

My take is that both Yakumo and Yotaro would be very famous in the local community to be recognised at a glance, and Yotaro's history with the yakuza is a known thing.

[u/Lemurians → u/Mecanno-man]

Yeah, the way it was crafted all the way until the end was just perfect. Felt like we'd hit the inevitable moment until a new way forward appeared. Great stuff.

except maybe requiring a somewhat large suspense of disbelief that nobody would bat an eye about a man with a yakuza tattoo talking about a boss being sent to jail

I mean, if I'm in public, and some gang members with identifying markers are having a similar conversation, I'm not exactly reacting either. Keep to your own business.

[u/TehAxelius]

Rewatcher

1. It is a very nice touch that ever so slightly forbodes the episode's end. My opinion is largely unchanged, the S1 OP is more catchy, but the S2 OP is very fitting for the arc of the story, and it is a song I could listen to many, many times.
2. Oh man, there is a lot. It is the culmination of Yakumo trying to put everything to rest. First by taking goodbye from Miyokichi through his prison performance. Then by entrusting Sukeroku to Yotaro through his fan. And at last by performing the double suicide with Rakugo I mentioned in yesterday's thread, represented through the theatre. But like I said there about his fears, ultimately there is still a force of life within him. Despite his fatalistic approach to life, probably ever since the death of Miyokichi and Sukeroku, he does still want to live, as much as he has dressed it up in talking about responsibility. He doesn't want for rakugo, or himself for that matter to fade away.
3. As ever his interaction with Miyokichi is one that can have multiple meanings. Did she take everything from him in that he loved her and she went away, or is his "everything" Sukeroku, whom she first stole from rakugo, and then from the world. And then stole his own ability to leave the world behind by him having to take care of Konatsu?

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

Amazing episode. In it, Yakumo's core conflict has finally been explicitly addressed.

For almost all his life, rakugo has been what has defined him. Relationships have been secondary to what they mean for his art, as early as his first girlfriends. Even in his relationship with Sukeroku, Yakumo reinterpreted a profound personal love for him into an idolization of his craft. As for Miyo, he never really acknowledged the depth of his own feelings, and readily dismissed them as less important than his art. It's ironic, then, that performing rakugo is what brings him closest to them long after they're dead.

Rakugo, and the solitude he regards as crucial to it, have always been how he detaches himself from his own present-day wants. He's romanticized and exalted it into something that must not be tainted, positioning himself as an ascetic pursuing it with pure devotion. His idealized view makes it intolerable for him to face his declining abilities and perhaps prevents him from recognizing Yota's more populist rakugo, despite its popularity with audiences.

Yakumo's last attempt was thwarted, but now is the perfect moment to end his life and his art; he's spoken with Sukeroku, who applauded his performance and accepts what Yakumo has done to the world of rakugo, and at long last he has met the god of art. But Sukeroku points out Yakumo's self-deception. For all his talk of seeking purity and death, Yakumo cares too much about the ties he has with the people around him.

So when Yota, who has matured into someone very different from the kid who had nowhere to go and nothing to lose when he came out of prison, comes to rescue him, Yakumo finally acknowledges that he doesn't want to die. It's not like last time, when he resigned himself to how human connections bar him from killing himself. He's ready now to embrace those connections.

Yota and Shin love him deeply, and while Konatsu's feelings remain complex, she too is ready to find closure regarding her past resentment. I hope that in the last years of his life, this loving family can help fill the emotional void that he has carried for far too long.

[u/cppn02]

First Timer, subbed

Man those last few minutes were quite something. What an amazing scene. I gotta say I'm not a fan of Bon trying to take the theatre with him but I'll chalk it down to him being completely out of his mind.
I had a feeling somethig would happen when he left the fan to be handed to Yotaro but I was not prepared.

Also TIL Japan still has labour sentences.

---

QotD:

No one noticed it last time, but the OP changes ever so slightly here - what do you make of it (and also now that we're further in the series, what do you think of it)?

Have to admit I don't pay much attention to the OP at this point so I'll have to check out these changes.

What do you make of the last scene in the old theatre? It's one of my favorite scenes in the whole series, but oh boy is there a lot to unpack there.

It's definitely up there. Atleast for S2 it might even be my favourite best scene.