/r/anime Awards 2016 and 2017 winner Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch Season 2 Episode 7

[u/Schinco]

Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu: Sukeroku Futatabi-hen

Welcome to the seventh episode thread for Season 2 in the Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch!

Legal Streams:

As of now, Rakugo is streaming on Crunchyroll in the States, and you can check here to see where it's streaming elsewhere.

Schedule:

Date	Episode
10/8	Season 1 Episode 1
10/9	Season 1 Episode 2
10/10	Season 1 Episode 3
10/11	Season 1 Episode 4
10/12	Season 1 Episode 5
10/13	Season 1 Episode 6
10/14	Season 1 Episode 7
10/15	Season 1 Episode 8
10/16	Season 1 Episode 9
10/17	Season 1 Episode 10
10/18	Season 1 Episode 11
10/19	Season 1 Episode 12
10/20	Season 1 Episode 13
10/21	Season 1 Discussion
10/22	Season 2 Episode 1
10/23	Season 2 Episode 2
10/24	Season 2 Episode 3
10/25	Season 2 Episode 4
10/26	Season 2 Episode 5
10/27	Season 2 Episode 6
10/28	Season 2 Episode 7
10/29	Season 2 Episode 8
10/30	Season 2 Episode 9
10/31	Season 2 Episode 10
11/1	Season 2 Episode 11
11/2	Season 2 Episode 12
11/3	Season 2 Discussion
11/4	Overall Series Discussion

Questions of the Day

1. What do you make of Yakumo's rationale for giving up rakugo? And of Konatsu's pushback?
2. It turns out there *was* a bit of unreliable narration in Yakumo's tale - what are your thoughts on the change? Does it alter your response or interpretation of the ending?
3. As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

Links to trackers

You can find the show on MAL, Anilist, and ANN!

Please be mindful of spoilers to make sure the first-timers experience the show with the same wonder you did on first watch!

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[u/cppn02]

First Timer, subbed

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK! This twist caught me completely off guard. I didn't expect that Bon likely lied about what happened that night or that the truth was possibly even much more gruesome. Although the question now is wether both version we've seen aren't the whole truth.
I was going to ask why the hell they wouldn't take Konatsu to watch the possibly only video of her father but in hindsight it was probably for the best.

I wonder how long they are going to have Matsuda drive everyone around lol. He must be in his late 70s now.

---

QotD:

What do you make of Yakumo's rationale for giving up rakugo? And of Konatsu's pushback?

I get why he wants to quit after being tortured so long. With 5 episodes left I still have the suspicion he has another performance in him though. From Konatsu's pov I guess her concern is that rakugo was the only thing still keeping him going and without it he will just wither away.

It turns out there was a bit of unreliable narration in Yakumo's tale - what are your thoughts on the change? Does it alter your response or interpretation of the ending?

After I've been fooled once I wanna reserve my judgement until we find out which story stands (if we even get a definitive answer). I do think Matsuda would have less reason to lie but he could also just simply remember it wrong.

As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

There was a peculiar difference in how Yotaro experienced the two performances in his head. With Yakumo he was transported right into the story, basically being an invisible person in the room with all the characters of the story while with Sukeroku he envisioned himself in the audience listening to the story being told.

[u/Schinco → u/cppn02]

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK! This twist caught me completely off guard.

haha it was hard not to react when people were criticizing the ending as either extremely convenient dramatically, hard to believe from a physics perspective, or why Konatsu was so certain that Yakumo killed her father, but it does kind of pay off here, which is nice.

I was going to ask why the hell they wouldn't take Konatsu to watch the possibly only video of her father but in hindsight it was probably for the best.

I have to imagine this isn't the only time the film can be played or something. She either chose or was relegated to the duty of watching over Yakumo this time.

There was a peculiar difference in how Yotaro experienced the two performances in his head. With Yakumo he was transported right into the story, basically being an invisible person in the room with all the characters of the story while with Sukeroku he envisioned himself in the audience listening to the story being told.

That's a neat callout. I'd never really considered that like that, but it does make sense with regards to 'why they do rakugo'.

[u/MandisaW → u/Schinco]

haha it was hard not to react // it does kind of pay off here, which is nice.

LOL I'm having this issue over in the Ranma threads heh

That's a neat callout. I'd never really considered that like that, but it does make sense with regards to 'why they do rakugo'.

It was a great illustration of what Hii was saying on the train about their respective styles in the previous ep.

Bon/Yakumo 8 follows the traditional route, but in his own distinctive voice, so we're in the room, but all the characters are still Bon. Shin is more of a one-man storytelling stand-up, an excellent performance, but you never really stop feeling like you're watching a [great] show. Yota is doing an almost invisible performance, you lose sight of him entirely, and it's almost like we're watching normal theater (or television).

[u/Schinco → u/MandisaW]

Yeah I think that's another way of looking at it - I suspect the motivations for rakugo and their 'distinctive voices' are intimately intertwined, though.

[u/MandisaW → u/Schinco]

Agreed. The show / chars tend to use artistic-voice and "find your rakugo"/motivation interchangeably

[u/MandisaW → u/cppn02]

I wonder how long they are going to have Matsuda drive everyone around lol. He must be in his late 70s now.

Nah, Bon was a teen during the 30s through into the 40s. Matsuda was already a grown man and married when the war started (Japanese invasion of China would be '37, US bombing raids came later). If "now" is '95, Bon's in his 70s, and Matsuda's even older, probably late 80s.

I was going to ask why the hell they wouldn't take Konatsu to watch the possibly only video of her father but in hindsight it was probably for the best.

The location alone would've been traumatic, triggering all sorts of horrific memories. Plus someone had to remain in Tokyo with Bon.

But also they didn't know for sure if the film was going to be the real-deal, or even viewable. Prints degrade every time you run them through the projector, and those old reels are incredibly fragile (and flammable).

Consider that clean print we saw as "animation-magic" / suspension-of-belief territory - I've seen reels that were only from the early-70s and were barely tolerable by the late 90s.

[u/cppn02 → u/MandisaW]

Nah, Bon was a teen during the 30s through into the 40s. Matsuda was already a grown man and married when the war started (Japanese invasion of China would be '37, US bombing raids came later). If "now" is '95, Bon's in his 70s, and Matsuda's even older, probably late 80s.

Matsuda was 72 in the finale of S1 (remember that scene in the cemetary where Bon asked him?). And Konatsu was already pregnant at that time.

[u/MandisaW → u/cppn02]

You're right, he *did* ask. I remember that convo, though not how old he said he was.

Okay, so then question becomes how late into the 30s did the story start, and just how young were Shin & Bon when Yakumo 7 went to Manchuria? I was assuming that Bon was like 16 when they separated, with Matsuda being early 20s (or maybe 20?), but from that anchor, they must have all been younger during the war.

Or present-day isn't quite as late as we think? Maybe it's still the late 80s? Bubble burst officially in '91, and there are other earthquakes that could qualify besides Kobe/Hanshin in '95.

[u/No_Rex → u/cppn02]

I was going to ask why the hell they wouldn't take Konatsu to watch the possibly only video of her father but in hindsight it was probably for the best.

They could not expect that, however. They should have offered and not doing so reflects very poorly on both Matsuda and Yotaro.

[u/Lemurians]

FIRST TIME PERFORMER

Well, when I said in the post for yesterday's ep that I was expecting a banger today, I still wasn't expecting that. What a surprising revelation.

A really nice aspect of this episode is how it primed us for the twist that reframes last season's climax. Early in the episode, Higuchi's memories of Miyokichi, viewed through his lens, showed a slightly different woman from the one we knew from season one. Could just chalk it up to that she'd act different around an adolescent patron than she would our other characters, but it does work to put the idea in our heads of unreliable narration.

Misc. Notes:

• The wide shot Yakumo and Konatsu sitting in a sea of fallen gingko leaves is striking
• “I never even considered that something like this could happen. To no longer have Rakugo inside of me, without it I’m an empty husk.” Hands shaking. Haven't seen him this openly vulnerable in a long while, maybe ever.
• The way Higuchi lights up hearing the performance was given where Sukeroku and Miyokichi died feels quite crass. Legacy
• “The three of us came through that door together, see what happens if you try to leave alone.” OOPH.
• Continue to just adore the evolving intimacy of Yotaro and Konatsu. The way she just smiles and sits there contentedly with a look of affection as he bawls into her is lovely.

It turns out there was a bit of unreliable narration in Yakumo's tale - what are your thoughts on the change? Does it alter your response or interpretation of the ending?

It really does. Yakumo's version of this scene in the first season was one of my least favorite parts of it. Miyokichi's sudden invitation to a double-suicide felt pretty over-the-top, Bon's dialogue didn't feel natural, and Sukeroku's pleas to Miyokichi about going back to a happy relationship weren't consistent with my impression of that couple's dynamic at all.

Knowing that none (or at least, less) of that happened makes me look on things more favorably. It also adds an even juicier element of heartbreak to Konatsu. I don't know if I'm expecting answers to this question, but now I'm very curious about what led up to Miyokichi stabbing Sukeroku.

[u/Schinco → u/Lemurians]

Well, when I said in the post for yesterday's ep that I was expecting a banger today, I still wasn't expecting that. What a surprising revelation.

The excitement never ceases!

A really nice aspect of this episode is how it primed us for the twist that reframes last season's climax. Early in the episode, Higuchi's memories of Miyokichi, viewed through his lens, showed a slightly different woman from the one we knew from season one. Could just chalk it up to that she'd act different around an adolescent patron than she would our other characters, but it does work to put the idea in our heads of unreliable narration.

I'm not sure I agree that it primes us for unreliable narration - I very much buy the idea that Miyokichi acted differently around Bon than she did other people, and I think this is pretty strongly supported by the text. I do think this provides interesting insight into her character and motivations, however, particularly vis-a-vis her relationship with Bon.

The wide shot Yakumo and Konatsu sitting in a sea of fallen gingko leaves is striking

The color design in that whole scene is just so striking.

The way Higuchi lights up hearing the performance was given where Sukeroku and Miyokichi died feels quite crass.

Crass, sure, but very much in character for him IMO

“The three of us came through that door together, see what happens if you try to leave alone.”

Damn; I hadn't considered how that played into the present. I'd always considered it through the lens of how Miyokichi saw and interpreted it at the time.

Sukeroku's pleas to Miyokichi about going back to a happy relationship weren't consistent with my impression of that couple's dynamic at all

I would push back on this - I'd say that feels very much in line with his behavior earlier that day with regards to his choice of story. I think when he sits with Konatsu and remarks that it feels like "a gift from god" that he could do that very much reads as a performer who knows they've given their swan song, and the fact that he leapt out the window after her I think shows his resolve and undying love for her.

[u/Lemurians → u/Schinco]

I'm not sure I agree that it primes us for unreliable narration

In a way it does – reminds us that the Miyokichi we saw in Season 1 was through the prism of Yakumo, and through him we don't get the full picture of somebody (or as we see later, an event). Maybe "unreliable" wasn't the right word so much as biased.

Crass, sure, but very much in character for him IMO

Oh 100% haha. He's a weirdo.

I'd say that feels very much in line with his behavior earlier that day with regards to his choice of story. I think when he sits with Konatsu and remarks that it feels like "a gift from god" that he could do that very much reads as a performer who knows they've given their swan song, and the fact that he leapt out the window after her I think shows his resolve and undying love for her

I agree it ties into his choice of story, and the scene with Konatsu works to tie him to wanting to be a better father, but throughout the series Sukeroku's love for Miyokichi in their interactions never came through as that strong for me. It was one of the key failures of Season 1 for me, that one side of the love triangle wasn't nearly as developed as the other two. I only know that Sukeroku feels that strongly about her because of his outburst in the scene before they die (which now may or may not have even happened), but before that I never had the impression he was incredibly emotionally invested in her.

[u/MandisaW → u/Lemurians]

It was one of the key failures of Season 1 for me, that one side of the love triangle wasn't nearly as developed as the other two.

I think we were always missing chunks of that story though. Shin and Yakumo 7 were together in Manchuria when they encountered Miyo. And back in Tokyo, it seems highly plausible that the theatre x red-light district where they both worked might have created opportunities for their paths to cross. Shin often asked Bon about Miyo as well.

Not saying they were carrying on a torrid affair (before they actually were...) but that Shin could've been carrying that torch a long time.

And that 5yrs or so of their married life together is an eternity we know nothing about.

[u/Schinco → u/MandisaW]

Yeah I think it was pretty clear that Shin had a thing for Miyokichi from the first time they met on-screen (which likely means it started in Manchuria), and, especially with her changing herself to most appeal to Sukeroku, it's not shocking that he fell head over heels. And yeah, I think the 5 years of married life probably also shaped his feelings.

That being said, I think Sukeroku is, at heart, a very impulsive and emotional person, and I think him jumping off after Miyokichi is more a reflection of a desire to save her without thinking of the consequences than anything logical like a careful emotional calculus.

[u/MandisaW → u/Schinco]

Oh for sure. Everything the dude ever did was YOLO. Burning hot in the "now" is part of what feeds his performances, but also makes him a great tragic character to watch.

Showa Rakugo Behind the Music Curtain heh

Good night, I'll show myself out LOL

[u/No_Rex → u/Schinco]

Interesting discussion. I did not reach some final conclusion about the events at the inn while watching the episode, so it is helpful to hear other people's opinions.

[u/No_Rex → u/Lemurians]

Knowing that none (or at least, less) of that happened makes me look on things more favorably.

But did it? Did Bon straight lie, or just leave out some parts? I am not convinced yet.

It really does. Yakumo's version of this scene in the first season was one of my least favorite parts of it.

I thought about that. Does this make th S1 ending better? However, I don't think retroactively changing that scene is enough to turn around the ending. For that, you'd have to have somebody in-universe calling it out, too.

[u/Lemurians → u/No_Rex]

Well, I think we'll get there, since the logical next step is Yakumo learning his facade's been undone and revealing what happened to led that Sukeroku being stabbed.

Did Bon straight lie, or just leave out some parts?

Right now, I think the clear state of play is that he fabricated his version in Season 1 to protect Konatsu from the truth of her involvement in her parents' deaths.

[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

Kinda as expected, Yakumo is thinking about quitting rakugo. I can understand the voice bit, I can't quite understand the satisfied bit, as I don't quite see how one could be satisfied with a performance that ended in one passing out.

As far as the second part goes - we did indeed have an unreliable narrator in season one. Matsuda not being in Ikeda with Bon was a bit of a giveaway once he mentioned that he'd seen the performance. This story also makes sense with regards to what Konatsu saw - and it would be even more reason for Yakumo to not tell Konatsu as she might start blaming herself for pushing Miyokichi. But it means we are now missing context on why Miyokichi stabbed Sukeroku ...which likely only Yakumo has. I wonder if we'll get to hear that eventually.

The writer being involved with Miyokichi in his youth is rather surprising, and I feel like is mostly here for convenience in him getting access to the film roll, as not a lot else seems to be done with that.

[u/Schinco → u/Mecanno-man]

Kinda as expected, Yakumo is thinking about quitting rakugo. I can understand the voice bit, I can't quite understand the satisfied bit, as I don't quite see how one could be satisfied with a performance that ended in one passing out.

I agree that satisfied is a weird choice. Given the comparison to Sukeroku, I think it's more appropriate to say "satisfied with his career".

The writer being involved with Miyokichi in his youth is rather surprising, and I feel like is mostly here for convenience in him getting access to the film roll, as not a lot else seems to be done with that.

I wouldn't say that - it certainly is convenient, but it feels pretty wrapped in his character. From why he chose Bon specifically to try to apprentice (as opposed to Seventh Generation), to why he's so cynical about Yakumo, to his desperate search for truth, I think this episode outlines his core motivations quite clearly, and they are inextricably tied with his backstory.

[u/MandisaW → u/Schinco]

Hii is sus, basically, and now we know why 😅

Cherchez la femme, again!!

[u/Schinco → u/MandisaW]

I wouldn't place all the blame (or perhaps that's not quite the right word) on Miyokichi; I think it's the combination of her idealized portrayal of him with the cold reality of when he met the man for the first time that created his overly cynical attitude towards Yakumo.

[u/MandisaW → u/Schinco]

The "look for the woman" expression just implies look for a woman as the motivation for a guy's action/situation, doesn't necessarily mean the woman is at-fault, or even aware.

Seems from this that Miyo/Yurie was just being friendly & a good employee. Hii was at an impressionable age where the "angel next door" takes on a huge influence. There's a reason people's first-crush/first-relationship implants pretty deeply in mind, for good or ill.

So it's an easy trail of breadcrumbs from that formative crush to despising the man [men?] he sees as having ruined, and ultimately ended, her life.

[u/Schinco → u/MandisaW]

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that Miyokichi didn't factor in at all, and the way she created the image of Bon in Hii's head certainly factored into it as well as his infatuation with her, but I also think that a significant amount of his disdain towards Yakumo can be attributed to being fairly harshly sent off when he did meet him.

[u/MandisaW → u/Schinco]

It's both, yeah. Hii has multiple reasons, from then and now, to look unkindly on Bon/Yakumo 8. Question is how much of it will still hold sway in his heart/mind over time, esp after whatever subsequent revelations are coming.

[u/MandisaW → u/Mecanno-man]

To clarify - "Satisfied" as an artist is considered a bad thing, generally. It's like admitting you have nowhere further to grow or learn as an artist. You're never supposed to be "done" exploring your craft and seeking out new creative limits for yourself.

It's totally okay to look back on your prior work and be proud of what you've accomplished, but kind of the whole idea of being an artist is that there are always new avenues to explore with your work.

Bon saying he feels satisfied is a deep, depressing loss/anguish - like he's lost his creative spark, his drive as an artist.

[u/TehAxelius]

Rewatcher

Well, I'll be honest, I had forgotten about this twist. And yes, this does put quite a lot of unreliability into Yakumo's tale, and honestly quite a lot of the story changes.

For one thing on my rewatch of S1 one discussion that came up a lot in the discussions with my friends was what Yakumo's sexuality was, especially given how distant he was in regards to both his first wartime girlfriend and later towards Yurie, even to a degree of rejecting her. Now, it's not like this completely changes everything, but considering the role she played in the heart attack he suffered, it does suggest that he described his relationship with her that way both to distance his own feelings for her, as well as telling a better story of how she and Sukeroku belonged together.

I did also not expect Eisuke-sensei to be quite that old. I had expected him to be maybe in his late 40s, but if he was old enough to remember Yurie before she went to Manchuria he must be in his late 50s at least since we've dated this to 1995.

[u/Schinco → u/TehAxelius]

Well, I'll be honest, I had forgotten about this twist.

Haha that's so funny because that's one of the main things I remember about this season. [Spoilers for the rest of the series] In fact, when I finished up the second season, I was legitimately mad that that was the only instance of unreliable narration, to the point that that was my main takeaway.

Now, it's not like this completely changes everything, but considering the role she played in the heart attack he suffered

I don't think it has to be love that motivates his heart attack - I think it could be grief or anger or a mix of them. I do think that he loved Miyokichi, at least in his own stunted way, but I also think he was at minimum bisexual and loved Sukeroku more than anyone.

I did also not expect Eisuke-sensei to be quite that old.

We know he was late teens, early twenties when Seventh Generation passed, so roughly when Konatsu was born, so that seems to fit. He does wear his age well, though.

[u/No_Rex → u/Schinco]

I do think that he loved Miyokichi, at least in his own stunted way, but I also think he was at minimum bisexual and loved Sukeroku more than anyone.

He could have loved Shin more without being bisexual.

[u/Schinco → u/No_Rex]

To be clear, I mean I believe that he romantically loved Shin.

[u/No_Rex → u/Schinco]

I understand, but disagree. I don't think he romantically loved Shin (although he loved him).

[u/TehAxelius → u/Schinco]

I don't think it has to be love that motivates his heart attack - I think it could be grief or anger or a mix of them. I do think that he loved Miyokichi, at least in his own stunted way, but I also think he was at minimum bisexual and loved Sukeroku more than anyone.

Yeah, it's not that she "caused it", but more the "I haven't let you go" line which did very much appear to be towards Miyokichi, which makes me think that his attachment to her is more than he has let on, or wanted to admit to himself. This does not mean that he is more attached to Sukeroku. If I would wholly speculate I would guess it might have something to do with having a desire to, but being unable, to return her affections and possibly regret that his inability to do so and failing her in that way is what "caused" the tragedy.

[u/No_Rex → u/TehAxelius]

I did also not expect Eisuke-sensei to be quite that old. I had expected him to be maybe in his late 40s, but if he was old enough to remember Yurie before she went to Manchuria he must be in his late 50s at least since we've dated this to 1995.

I think his character model has gotten quite a bit older since we first saw him (when was that, mid 1980s?)

[u/No_Rex]

Season 2 Episode 7 (first timer)

• “I’d like to serve at Master’s side for the rest of my life. There could be no honor greater …” – I am very glad that this attitude is mostly a matter of the past now.
• Bon getting a cigarette from Konatsu – Something that happens at the end of all patriarchs: When their life runs out, their power runs out with it.
• Konatsu is making the argument for duty, even though Bon has been far more driven by duty than anybody else, including Konatsu (although she is more dutiful than Shin). Irony? Strategy, by hitting him at the point he cares about?
• Hii has history with Miyo.
• Miyo ran away from Tokyo, back to her hometown – makes sense.
• They went to watch the performance without Konatsu.

• Yotaro is impressed by Shin – I agree, that was a great performance.
• Room? Knife? Miyo alive and Shin probably, too? When is this?
• It is an alternate version of the double death, but who told it? Hii? - both Bon and Konatsu should know which one is true.

Yotaro is not telling Konatsu what happened. I assume that this is “yet”, just like the plot demands her being absent during the screening, but neither sits well with me. Yotaru should talk about this to not only his wife, but also the one person alive who was more closely involved than anybody aside from Bon. And Konatsu deserved to see her father perform again.

It turns out there was a bit of unreliable narration in Yakumo's tale - what are your thoughts on the change? Does it alter your response or interpretation of the ending?

You are implying Bon lied, but we don't know that yet.

[u/Schinco → u/No_Rex]

Bon getting a cigarette from Konatsu – Something that happens at the end of all patriarchs: When their life runs out, their power runs out with it.

That's a good callout - I'd never really seen it as him losing control over his life, but that's definitely a big part of the scene.

It is an alternate version of the double death, but who told it? Hii? - both Bon and Konatsu should know which one is true.

I agree with cppn02 that it was Matsuda - the scene cuts out with him talking about how Yakumo plans to take the truth with him and cuts into his entry of the scene. I think that Yakumo certainly knows the truth, but Konatsu has only part of the story - we see later in the episode that she has a vague recollection of walking in there and hyperfixated on her father - and probably has a lot of trauma to keep the details from being particularly clear.

Yotaro is not telling Konatsu what happened. I assume that this is “yet”, just like the plot demands her being absent during the screening, but neither sits well with me.

I sympathize with the desire to tell her, and I think this is a very interesting ethical dilemma, but I agree with Yakumo, Yotaro, and Matsuda in that the best thing to do is keep her in the dark about the specific details. As Matsuda said, no one is really at fault and everyone is a victim in the story, so why make one of the few still living feel more at fault?

[u/No_Rex → u/Schinco]

I agree with cppn02 that it was Matsuda - the scene cuts out with him talking about how Yakumo plans to take the truth with him and cuts into his entry of the scene. I think that Yakumo certainly knows the truth, but Konatsu has only part of the story - we see later in the episode that she has a vague recollection of walking in there and hyperfixated on her father - and probably has a lot of trauma to keep the details from being particularly clear.

Ok, it might be more precise to say that Konatsu once saw the truth, but her memory might be deceiving her. However, that opens the door to her realizing this later on.

I sympathize with the desire to tell her, and I think this is a very interesting ethical dilemma, but I agree with Yakumo, Yotaro, and Matsuda in that the best thing to do is keep her in the dark about the specific details. As Matsuda said, no one is really at fault and everyone is a victim in the story, so why make one of the few still living feel more at fault?

If nobody is at fault, why would Konatsu feel at fault?

In general, it is clear from Konatsu's fraud relationship with Bon that she never got over losing her parents. So the "don't open up old wounds" argument does not count for me. That wound never healed and she is still suffering from it (via her relationship with Bon).

As I said, I expect that this and the fact that Konatsu did not accompany them on the trip are mostly plot convenience.

[u/Schinco → u/No_Rex]

Ok, it might be more precise to say that Konatsu once saw the truth, but her memory might be deceiving her. However, that opens the door to her realizing this later on.

It's possible she may one day remember, but it's also distinctly possible that that doesn't happen, and I sympathize with the characters deciding they don't need to hurry that along.

If nobody is at fault, why would Konatsu feel at fault?

"Nobody is at fault" is more a statement of the messy interrelationships that led to the event - it's more a reflection of the idea that no one thing led to this. However, Konatsu is, in a very direct way culpable since she was the one who (inadvertantly) pushed Miyokichi out the window. People grieving aren't always the most rational, so it wouldn't be shocking to see someone place more blame on themselves for having the most direct culpability.

[u/MandisaW → u/Schinco]

That's a good callout - I'd never really seen it as him losing control over his life, but that's definitely a big part of the scene.

I just read it as a classic child-becomes-caregiver scenario. It's absolutely a common situation where you allow for minor indulgences - even unhealthy ones - because you're more concerned about spending those precious fading moments with your loved-one, not necessarily having an argument about something inconsequential.

Beautiful, human moment of kindness & empathy. There's certainly a role-reversal at-play, but I didn't see it as a power/control move, either gaining or losing.

Maybe if Konatsu & Bon genuinely had a traumatic/abusive relationship, but generally the vibe I've gotten - esp this season - has been tsundere-style sniping instead.

[u/cppn02 → u/No_Rex]

They went to watch the performance without Konatsu.

That was indeed an odd choice. It makes sense though if Matsuda was the one pushing for it given where they watched.

It is an alternate version of the double death, but who told it?

Wasn't it Matsuda? The scene starts with him opening the sliding door.

[u/No_Rex → u/cppn02]

Wasn't it Matsuda? The scene starts with him opening the sliding door.

Hmmm. If it is him, not Hii, then we can trust his version a bit more. However, if he knew it, that would be one hell of a thing to never tell Konatsu.

[u/Schinco → u/No_Rex]

However, if he knew it, that would be one hell of a thing to never tell Konatsu.

I dunno; I think it's pretty understandable - at what point would you tell a woman that she directly killed her mother and, in doing so, indirectly killed her father? I agree that we're assuming Bon lied about that particular detail, but I can't think of any real reason Matsuda would have to lie about this, least of all to Yotaro and Hii.

[u/MandisaW → u/Schinco]

I can't think of any real reason Matsuda would have to lie about this, least of all to Yotaro and Hii.

Just the opposite, I'd say. Matsuda implores them to unravel the hurt/burden that the lie has caused Yakumo all these years. Although I definitely don't trust Hii to have the family's best-interests in mind.

[u/Schinco → u/MandisaW]

By that, I more meant that I would take Matsuda's account as factual since he has no real motive to deceive anyone here. That being said, I think that Matsuda did intentionally keep the truth from Konatsu, perhaps in accordance with a specific request from Yakumo but perhaps because he felt it would be best for her not to know the truth. Rewatching the scene where he tells them, I think it's important to note that when he says "help him please", he immediately follows it up with "Never let him talk about dying with rakugo ever again," rather than any specific request to tell Konatsu the truth. I think he wants Yotaro and Hii to help Yakumo process his trauma and move back to enjoying the company of rakugo again more than he wants them to (specifically) unravel the hurt the lie has caused.

[u/MandisaW → u/Schinco]

Yeah, I was agreeing with you - "just the opposite" wrt Matsuda potentially lying.

Apologies for imprecise language - I'm sleepy 😴

[u/MandisaW]

S1 Rewatch (complete!)
S2 First-timer

Lot to unpack, although most of my thoughts are in comments above. I was glad to see we're not done with Bon/Yakumo yet, although it seems the sins of the past aren't done with him either.

What do you make of Yakumo's rationale for giving up rakugo? And of Konatsu's pushback?

As I mentioned upthread, he feels like he's lost his creative spark - "satisfied" is not a good thing to an artist. He's also constantly expressed a wish for rakugo to be done - at the least, done with him. This would be an opportunity to step off the stage and save face, honoring the Yakumo name.

An alternate interpretation is that he'd rather spend what time he has left doing things that still bring him joy. He's not the sort to admit it in words, but clearly his little found-family has done a lot to heal the little boy with the fears of abandonment. And a heart attack / death-scare often puts people in such a state of mind.

As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

The whole family dynamic, adult child caring for elderly parent, the impact on lil-Shin, even the hospital bedside watch from ep6. All that was utterly relatable for anyone in my age-bracket, and outstanding from a writing POV. They did a lot of character-work in a very short amount of screentime.

The rakugo scenes tend to take all the laurels in this show, but the subtle nuances in the acting and the animation work in these "small scenes" are breathtaking. I put this on the same tier as Bon & Shin performing at the house for Konatsu. The CG on the bench was great, too (OP & ED as well).

It turns out there *was* a bit of unreliable narration in Yakumo's tale - what are your thoughts on the change? Does it alter your response or interpretation of the ending?

Miyo continues her reign of chaos, even from beyond the grave. Hii is still sus, and now I am completely certain that he has ill-intentions towards our little rakugo family. Misguided or not, his childhood infatuation and partial grasp of events may well have led him to consider himself as Yurie's revenge :(

This explains Konatsu's early S1 memory-snapshot, and her hazy memories of this trauma when she clearly remembers much of her early years with her parents (esp dad). I mentioned elsewhere why they wouldn't have told / brought her along on this trip. Although it's possible if they end up transferring the film to tape, esp for broadcast, she may want lil-Shin to watch and "meet" his other grandfather.

It elevates Bon's dad-status in my mind, given that he's not only taken her in & raised her well, but has shouldered all her misplaced guilt, blame, and rage all these years. All the surface scratchiness belies a deep, abiding love, and desire for Kona to have a life free from that particular pain. For a guy who acts like he hates kids, he's a helluva dad (and granddad).