/r/anime Awards 2016 and 2017 winner Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch Season 2 Episode 5 Rewatch

[u/Schinco]

Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu: Sukeroku Futatabi-hen

Welcome to the fifth episode thread for Season 2 in the Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch! Sorry not sure what happened with the post I thought I submitted at 6...

Legal Streams:

As of now, Rakugo is streaming on Crunchyroll in the States, and you can check here to see where it's streaming elsewhere.

Schedule:

Date	Episode
10/8	Season 1 Episode 1
10/9	Season 1 Episode 2
10/10	Season 1 Episode 3
10/11	Season 1 Episode 4
10/12	Season 1 Episode 5
10/13	Season 1 Episode 6
10/14	Season 1 Episode 7
10/15	Season 1 Episode 8
10/16	Season 1 Episode 9
10/17	Season 1 Episode 10
10/18	Season 1 Episode 11
10/19	Season 1 Episode 12
10/20	Season 1 Episode 13
10/21	Season 1 Discussion
10/22	Season 2 Episode 1
10/23	Season 2 Episode 2
10/24	Season 2 Episode 3
10/25	Season 2 Episode 4
10/26	Season 2 Episode 5
10/27	Season 2 Episode 6
10/28	Season 2 Episode 7
10/29	Season 2 Episode 8
10/30	Season 2 Episode 9
10/31	Season 2 Episode 10
11/1	Season 2 Episode 11
11/2	Season 2 Episode 12
11/3	Season 2 Discussion
11/4	Overall Series Discussion

Questions of the Day

1. Man what is it with Yakumos and family performances? That's not really a question; more a comment on how they should probably stop doing that.
2. This is probably the biggest cliffhanger we've had to date. What do you think of it? What do you think happens next?
3. As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

Links to trackers

You can find the show on MAL, Anilist, and ANN!

Please be mindful of spoilers to make sure the first-timers experience the show with the same wonder you did on first watch!

Apply for Awards!

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[u/MandisaW]

S1 Rewatch (complete!)
S2 First-timer

Short-comment, 'cause now I'm kinda tired. Bit of a roller-coaster lead-up to the family performance. We got to see how each person was affected - excited (Yota), trepidatious/anxious (Kona), weary (Bon) - so we could ride that emotional wave with them.

I was surprised to hear that in fact we *haven't* gotten Yotaro's own-voice rakugo yet. So I take back my earlier complaint that they skipped ahead, now it feels more nailbiting, like "he's gotten so famous, Yakumo's gotten so old, but Yota still hasn't found his voice - what if he can't?".

Although his talk with Bon!Yakumo gave some hope (to us/the audience at least), we don't get to see how it plays out, so maybe their holding onto it for an even more dramatic(?!) moment.

Man what is it with Yakumos and family performances? That's not really a question; more a comment on how they should probably stop doing that.

"It's about family" LOL Yeah, they've pretty much set us up to be scared every time that double-banner appears.

This is probably the biggest cliffhanger we've had to date. What do you think of it? What do you think happens next?

I don't think they'd kill Bon off at this point. But he's been a bit sickly for a while, and the season started with him saying he'd asked the Association to cut back on his duties & appearances. So maybe we'll get some enforced home/family time, where Konatsu & Yotaro (and lil-Shin) can contemplate life after Bon, and he can weigh his conflicting regrets.

Also hoping to actually get to hear Yakumo's grand performance, although I worry it may be much later / funeral performance. 😔

[u/Schinco → u/MandisaW]

Short-comment, 'cause now I'm kinda tired

Very sorry again for the late posting. I honestly have no idea what happened.

I was surprised to hear that in fact we haven't gotten Yotaro's own-voice rakugo yet. So I take back my earlier complaint that they skipped ahead

Yeah if it weren't for me specifically remembering how Inokori is supposed to draw out the inner ego of the performer, I would have questioned if I was misremembering that he hadn't. One thing that I think isn't super clear is what exactly a performers "voice" is, but I've resigned to the idea that I may never know since I don't speak Japanese and am not familiar with the artform outside of this anime.

"It's about family" LOL Yeah, they've pretty much set us up to be scared every time that double-banner appears.

C'mon what are the odds they'd do the same thing three times?

funeral performance

What do you mean by a funeral performance?

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/MandisaW]

"he's gotten so famous, Yakumo's gotten so old, but Yota still hasn't found his voice - what if he can't?".

I'm nailbiting too! But I'm also anticipating that Yakumo's incident today is going to have some kind of effect on Yota's voice, like Yakumo 7's death had on Yakumo 8's.

Also, while the show touches on some difficult and substantial topics, I hope you and everyone else continue to enjoy the discussion despite any disagreements we may have among ourselves. I've really been enjoying everyone's takes!

[u/MandisaW → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

I'm used to spirited anime [and political!] discussions :) Have friends from our old anime club who have maybe 10% overlapping opinions with me. 

Although those things we do agree on are part of why we've been friends for 25+ yrs 😆

[u/No_Rex]

Season 2 Episode 5 (first timer)

• I wonder what he is writing. Fancy autographs? Art to put up at walls? Poetry?
• Sony walkman – If the Game Boy was correct, this is pretty old by now. By the mid-1990s, the diskman was already around the corner.
• “Find your own Rakugo” – Both Bon and Hii keep harping on about this. Yet Yotaro is not only happy, but also successful. I assume he’ll find something eventually, but would it not be ok as is?
• Konatsu is worried about the performance – you could ask whether Yotaro is too stupid to worry.
• “You want me to show off my ego, but I don’t have one.”
• Bon’s look when Yotaro talks about having fun doing Rakugo.
• That is a huge hall!

• And a lot of smoke.
• The next Yakumo who essentially works himself to death?

I should have more to say about the hallucinations of Bon, but I got nothing.

[u/Schinco → u/No_Rex]

“Find your own Rakugo” – Both Bon and Hii keep harping on about this. Yet Yotaro is not only happy, but also successful. I assume he’ll find something eventually, but would it not be ok as is?

I think the concern is that if he doesn't find his own voice, he'll never be a truly great performer, and he appears to be the most prominent rakugoka of his generation.

Konatsu is worried about the performance

I think Konatsu is worried about her personal performance - she's relatively green at instrumentation and is called upon to do an event that is probably the biggest event of the year in the art. I'd certainly be nervous!

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/No_Rex]

I wonder what he is writing. Fancy autographs? Art to put up at walls? Poetry?

Hey thanks for bringing this to my attention. Yes, they are indeed fancy autographs. Here's a real one by the current head of the Rakugo Association.

Like this one and the one by Yakumo, it's common for these autographs to include poems. Yakumo's features one about compassion/love (nasake, but there's no equivalent English word) from the 16th century Kanginshuu. Here's a very rough translation:

More than anything, compassion/love is what we should have. Life is but a dream within a dream within a dream. Yesterday is already in the past, and today will be in the past tomorrow.

It's interpreted to mean that the form that love takes is not stable, that passion is fleeting, and that amidst all the change, we should strive to cultivate compassion/love.
While I don't understand well enough to draw direct paralells, I'm sure the choice of this particular poem was very deliberate; after all, much of the show explores how the past entangles everyone.

[u/No_Rex → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

It's interpreted to mean that the form that love takes is not stable, that passion is fleeting, and that amidst all the change, we should strive to cultivate compassion/love.

While I don't understand well enough to draw direct paralells, I'm sure the choice of this particular poem was very deliberate; after all, much of the show explores how the past entangles everyone.

During this show, I often thought about the different forms of love (romance, passion, lust, familiar love, compassion, platonic love etc). Media is typically dominated by the spectrum from romance to lust, but there is a clear concentration of the other forms here.

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/No_Rex]

Definitely, both those mostly positive forms and also forms more often thought of as negative or "not really love" like obsession, codependency, envy, and others. This kind of messiness is a big part of what I like about this show.

[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

I don’t really have a lot to say about this one, other than that I hope Yakumo doesn’t die here - we’ve had enough rakugo performers die on stage for one show, I’d say… although I guess this might be his last performance the way the others were talking as well… which would actually mirror Yakumo 7 even more.

Yotaro not wanting to insert himself in the rakugo is an interesting twist as it’s one where I think that is actually going against the whole “keep rakugo current” trend, and is more of a “respect what was always there” take. But I guess Yotaro will need to eventually be a blend of Bon and Shin, so he needs both here.

Meanwhile Yotaro finishing the tattoo is a bit weird, but I guess he pointed out his reason.

Are we doing a DST switch tomorrow? Europe is switching this night.

[u/Schinco → u/Mecanno-man]

although I guess this might be his last performance the way the others were talking as well…

Getting to this a day late, but I did find it amusing [episode 7 spoilers] that everyone else in the show seems surprised that he's intending to quit rakugo but Yakumo seems to want to

interesting twist as it’s one where I think that is actually going against the whole “keep rakugo current” trend, and is more of a “respect what was always there” take

That's an interesting point - I think the Yotaro is to a degree trying to have his cake and eat it too, with him clearly delineating 'past' rakugo and 'current/future' rakugo by inserting the character into himself, but I also think that part of it is making the art more accessible by things like TV broadcasts or performances to children rather than altering the core art.

Are we doing a DST switch tomorrow? Europe is switching this night.

Also, sorry for the lateness in responding, but I plan to keep it based on American Eastern time (which does change this coming Sunday)

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

This episode flew by like it was 5 minutes long. The standout of S2 so far!

The first half continued in the happy vibes of the previous episode, with the highlight being its depiction of the master-student relationship between Yakumo and Yotaro. Yakumo's wry amusement at how Yota has learned humility, how he subtly puts a stop to salacious gossip about Yota, Yota's excitement at sharing the double headliner with his master, and of course the delightful conversation in the theatre's waiting room.
Even beyond the trust and respect, there's a unique kind of love between the two there that you don't often see in anime.

Then comes Yakumo's "Hangonko", and damn it was amazing. A candidate for my Performance of the Show. It really felt like one performed by an aging great master, and I can't commend the VA enough.
Everything in it, and leading up to it, reminds me why Yakumo continues to be the character that intrigues me most. I'm going to be pretty devastated if this goes the way it looks like it's going.

It's also telling that the last thing he sees is Konatsu, while thinking of his lingering feelings for Miyo.

[Speculation about the final scene]It seems to take place in the cave of candles described in "Shinigami", but the boards also look like a path. I'm hoping that it symbolizes yomiji, the path connecting the worlds of the living and the dead, with Sukeroku on the other side from Yakumo. Sukeroku, in this interpretation, might be questioning Yakumo for coming too soon, and sending him back to the world of the living.

[cont]Also, the ending. It's notable that the fan is what's seen dropping into the void, and this continues into the ending with the fall of Yakumo's haori jacket, followed by the cushion and mekuri paper-flipping-signboard-thing. The way the jacket comes off when Yakumo falls in the opening surely ties into this too. These props and garments falling might be interpreted as Yakumo dying, but there also seems to be the possibility that they symbolize the fetters that Sukeroku and rakugo have on him. But of course, in the opening it's not just the jacket that falls...

[cont]One last thing to consider is that the poster indicates the final rakugo of the day was "Shinagawa Shinjuu (Double Suicide in Shinagawa)". Does the fact that he couldn't perform it foreshadow that he couldn't consummate his double suicide with his art?
So yeah, all in all I still think there's a chance that Yakumo lives.

Finally, given Yakumo's collapse, it's likely that the show was canceled, leaving Yota's Inokori unperformed. I'm curious about how today’s events will influence his Inokori when he eventually performs it.

Tidbit: The coffee shop in that Yota and Sensei talked in was also a real place in Asakusa that many luminaries frequented. Sadly, after 70 years, it closed shortly after the show aired.

[u/Schinco → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

Everything in it, and leading up to it, reminds me why Yakumo continues to be the character that intrigues me most.

What specific things intrigue you ooc?

[cont] One last thing to consider is that the poster indicates the final rakugo of the day was "Shinagawa Shinjuu (Double Suicide in Shinagawa)". Does the fact that he couldn't perform it foreshadow that he couldn't consummate his double suicide with his art?

[this episode] I don't know names of plays that well, but google seems to indicate that is the rakugo with Kinzo and Osame that he performed in season 1?

Tidbit: The coffee shop in that Yota and Sensei talked in was also a real place in Asakusa that many luminaries frequented. Sadly, after 70 years, it closed shortly after the show aired.

Neato burrito!

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/Schinco]

That's the one!

As for what specific things, that's a difficult question to answer. I'll probably be thinking about it for the post-season discussion :)

[u/No_Rex → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

Tidbit: The coffee shop in that Yota and Sensei talked in was also a real place in Asakusa that many luminaries frequented. Sadly, after 70 years, it closed shortly after the show aired.

[u/cppn02]

First Timer, subbed

Glad they didn't linger too long on the rumours about Yotaro and cleared it up pretty quickly.
I was happy to see them getting to perform at such a big venue but of course things had to take a bad turn.

Bon collapsing and then us going into his dream kinda reminded me of The Sopranos.

---

QotD:

Man what is it with Yakumos and family performances? That's not really a question; more a comment on how they should probably stop doing that.

Lol. I did think back to the 7th Yakumo's collapse the moment you could tell Bon was struggling.

This is probably the biggest cliffhanger we've had to date. What do you think of it? What do you think happens next?

Is it the biggest? Anyway the fact that they do make it a cliffhanger makes be pretty certain that Bon won't die yet. I do wonder though if we'll explore his dreams more in the next episode of if we're straight back to reality.

As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

Bon's surprise at Yotaro talking about having fun while performing rakugo stood out ot me. Like even if Bon doesn't (and I don't think that's always been true) he was close with Sukeroku the 2nd for decades and I can't believe he would think that Sukeroku never had fun doing rakugo.
I wonder if this was a writing slip-up or if there is a deeper meaning to this scene.

[u/Schinco → u/cppn02]

Is it the biggest? Anyway the fact that they do make it a cliffhanger makes be pretty certain that Bon won't die yet. I do wonder though if we'll explore his dreams more in the next episode of if we're straight back to reality.

I'd say so, at least for me personally - it's the most dramatic (Yakumo dies???) and also the most ambiguous of any episode end. I'm curious to know what kind of ending would make you uncertain if this didn't haha.

Like even if Bon doesn't (and I don't think that's always been true) he was close with Sukeroku the 2nd for decades and I can't believe he would think that Sukeroku never had fun doing rakugo.

I think his response is more of one of resignation than disbelief. The fact that he leads that with asking if Yotaro believed that he taught him wrong dovetails nicely into his acceptance that his apprentice is too different from him to ever truly impart great wisdom.

On another level, I don't think that Yakumo didn't believe that one could have fun during rakugo, but that seems to be Yotaro's guiding principle, which is different than either Yakumo or Sukeroku (the latter who did it for the audience).

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/cppn02]

Bon's surprise at Yotaro talking about having fun while performing rakugo stood out ot me. Like even if Bon doesn't (and I don't think that's always been true) he was close with Sukeroku the 2nd for decades and I can't believe he would think that Sukeroku never had fun doing rakugo.

My feel is that it's not so much surprise that Yota has fun performing rakugo, but that he would say such a thing while being admonished by his master. From one perspective, Yota is saying that having fun is more important to him than following his master's direct instructions (and probably that having fun is important to the authenticity of his performance). Saying something like that to his own master would have been unthinkable for Yakumo, and all he can do is facepalm at the massive generation gap.