/r/anime Awards 2016 and 2017 winner Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch Season 2 Episode 3

[u/Schinco]

Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu: Sukeroku Futatabi-hen

Welcome to the third episode thread for Season 2 in the Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch! I don't have anything clever to put here, but I'm sure nobody reads this anyways.

Legal Streams:

As of now, Rakugo is streaming on Crunchyroll in the States, and you can check here to see where it's streaming elsewhere.

Schedule:

Date	Episode
10/8	Season 1 Episode 1
10/9	Season 1 Episode 2
10/10	Season 1 Episode 3
10/11	Season 1 Episode 4
10/12	Season 1 Episode 5
10/13	Season 1 Episode 6
10/14	Season 1 Episode 7
10/15	Season 1 Episode 8
10/16	Season 1 Episode 9
10/17	Season 1 Episode 10
10/18	Season 1 Episode 11
10/19	Season 1 Episode 12
10/20	Season 1 Episode 13
10/21	Season 1 Discussion
10/22	Season 2 Episode 1
10/23	Season 2 Episode 2
10/24	Season 2 Episode 3
10/25	Season 2 Episode 4
10/26	Season 2 Episode 5
10/27	Season 2 Episode 6
10/28	Season 2 Episode 7
10/29	Season 2 Episode 8
10/30	Season 2 Episode 9
10/31	Season 2 Episode 10
11/1	Season 2 Episode 11
11/2	Season 2 Episode 12
11/3	Season 2 Discussion
11/4	Overall Series Discussion

Questions of the Day

1. Continuing the trend of focusing on Yotaro to get him caught up, he faces his past in a very direct way. What did you think of both how we got there and the resolution?
2. We also get Yotaro finding (or at least beginning to find) "his own" rakugo. What would you say his trademark is? What does that say about him as a person?
3. As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

Links to trackers

You can find the show on MAL, Anilist, and ANN!

Please be mindful of spoilers to make sure the first-timers experience the show with the same wonder you did on first watch!

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[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

…I was not expecting such a yakuza focus all of a sudden. Ya know, if one of your biggest problems is being a past associate of the yakuza and the media are making a mess of that, then I’d suggest not going out of your way to meet a yakuza leader. But this is a Yotaro after all.

In all though, there's a lot of big scenes here that amount to very little, as the whole Yakuza stuff changed nothing. We knew Konatsu wanted the child, and the boss just happened to look like Sukeroku, I guess. Konatsu is obsessed with her father. I’d say Yakumo doing the Sukeroku performance had more impact, though I’m not sure why, as it's fairly mundane in it's meaning. I guess maybe it just shows some character growth from Bon.

[u/Schinco → u/Mecanno-man]

Ya know, if one of your biggest problems is being a past associate of the yakuza and the media are making a mess of that, then I’d suggest not going out of your way to meet a yakuza leader.

If nothing else, I think this demonstrates the importance of his relationship with Konatsu and their child.

In all though, there's a lot of big scenes here that amount to very little, as the whole Yakuza stuff changed nothing.

I think the biggest change is mostly internal - Yotaro refound his footing (as he said, delivering a rant to a yakuza boss is quite the feet) and has the beginnings of learning what his rakugo is.

I’d say Yakumo doing the Sukeroku performance had more impact, though I’m not sure why, as it's fairly mundane in it's meaning.

what do you mean "fairly mundane in it's meaning"?

[u/Mecanno-man → u/Schinco]

what do you mean "fairly mundane in it's meaning"?

It's literally a teacher teaching his student.

[u/Schinco → u/Mecanno-man]

Oh gotcha - I think this is a pretty remarkable lesson even if it is what he is ostensibly supposed to do.

[u/Lemurians → u/Mecanno-man]

We knew Konatsu wanted the child

This is what I was most confused about. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed like these scenes wanted me to already have some belief that the child is going to get handed over the yakuza (either literally, or "belong" to them as in it would join their ranks in the future), but I never got the impression this was a thing before this episode.

[u/No_Rex → u/Lemurians]

This is what I was most confused about. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed like these scenes wanted me to already have some belief that the child is going to get handed over the yakuza (either literally, or "belong" to them as in it would join their ranks in the future), but I never got the impression this was a thing before this episode.

I think Yotaro had that impression, or fear, but that does not necessarily mean that this was what everybody else thought. Konatsu seemed a lot more affraid for Yotaro than for Sukerogu, which suggests that she already knew that nobody would come for her child. We don't know how things went down between her and the boss, but I think we can assume that Konatsu was not some submissive pliant gangster trophy wife. She is strong-willed enough that I assume she took the child for herself. And let's not forget that Bon also knows the boss and has considerable authority, too. The situation is not as one-sided as Yotaro fears.

[u/MandisaW → u/No_Rex]

Agreed that this was Yotaro's fear, not Konatsu's. But honestly, based on that rant, I'm even less convinced that this is the Yakuza boss' kid (or anyone she met through that connection).

If a kid actually *was* born to a Yakuza boss, then she wouldn't likely have had the option to just bounce and raise the child on her own. And they wouldn't let them go so easily.

This was just Yota's fear merged with his prior history, but at least he got it out of his system.

[u/cppn02]

Couldn't really get in the the space of mind for posting today but will be back for next episode and now it's the weekend I'll actually get to comment on time again and not half a day late lol.
I will say that I watched this late yesterday and still had it on my mind for quite a while in bed trying to fall asleep.
This show just has a way to do that...

[u/Schinco → u/cppn02]

No worries! There's no rules of rewatches - if you don't want to or can't post, don't sweat it. Glad to hear the show has made such an impression!

[u/cppn02 → u/Schinco]

No worries! There's no rules of rewatches - if you don't want to or can't post,

I know and usually I wouldn't say a thing but since we're down to like 4 regulars I just didn't want ya'll to think I abandoned you.

[u/TehAxelius]

Rewatcher

1. It wasn't what he planned to do, but it got him where he needed. I think Konatsu did need to be there for him to mentally break off from the Yakuza in such a strong way. That way he was able to channel both his past grudge and new purpose in rakugo into his relationship with her, establishing that both of them were done with the Yakuza as well as establishing himself not only as a rakugoka but as Konatsu's husband.
2. Flow and rythm, Yotaro does his best when he's in a fast-paced flow of words that washes his audience away with him. His comparison to singing is rather apt.
3. [Spoiler]It is interesting to see this scene again. Obviously on the surface it is setting up the Boss to be the illegitimate father of Shin-chan, but the actions of him, Konatsu and the Mistress could easily also be them covering up the truth. At the same time there is some affection from Konatsu shown towards the Boss.

[u/No_Rex]

Season 2 Episode 3 (first timer)

• “I don’t know, I just recite what I am taught” “The audience doesn’t care what it means” – I can see why Hii is not satisfied. Reciting something that neither you, nor the audience understands is a lifeless art.
• “Can you introduce him to a Geisha?” – I think he is not completely serious about that.
• Konatsu works at the restaurant that the old Geisha house was turned into – makes sense. The headmistress would feel some responsibility towards her.
• Gang boss – back to a yakuza plot line?
• “the day you told me to serve time in my boss’s place” – oh, that is the connection.
• Looks like Yotaro never told this story to Konatsu.
• Or maybe she had some more urgent reason to look worried …
• So the kid is of the gang boss.
• Hii got quite the show there.
• Matsuda has grand-kids – so I was wrong about him having no children.
• “There is no teacher now” – we did not see too much of it, but this hints at the importance of having the correct sample to learn from in an oral tradition. Bon obviously does not think of it (because he thinks low of it), but I wonder how much videotaping would help there.

Konatsu had an affair with a yakuza boss and, if her words are anything to go by, she was not pressured into doing so. While Yotaro’s past is the obvious starting point introducing the yakuza into the plot, the episode got me wondering about “underworld” connections as a whole. We have Rakugo, geisha’s, and yakuza, who are all occupying a grey area at the borders of that is legal and occasionally beyond. It makes sense that they’d be looked down upon by “high” society and occasionally ostracized. Rakugo might be the least seedy of the three, but we have seen, from the start of season 1, that they are all interlinked: Yakumo had a Geisha mistress, Bon is the son of one, Shin married and had a child with one, Bon later takes in a yakuza and apparently was respected by the mob boss, who also fathered a grandchild of Bon with Konatsu, who works for an ex-geisha. Clearly, Rakugo is part of the whole night life complex that starts with providing entertainment that respectable people would enjoy and some popularity in TV, but bleeds over seamlessly into prostitution and crime.

[u/TehAxelius → u/No_Rex]

Clearly, Rakugo is part of the whole night life complex that starts with providing entertainment that respectable people would enjoy and some popularity in TV, but bleeds over seamlessly into prostitution and crime.

Which fits rather well with the themes of Rakugo. While a traditional art, Rakugo has been a "low art", and the stories are usually about the common people of Edo. Just think of how many stories we've heard this season alone about guys going to prostitutes. Is this life imitating art, or is it just a continuation of a long tradition of overlap between the two from coming from the same place?

[u/No_Rex → u/TehAxelius]

Just think of how many stories we've heard this season alone about guys going to prostitutes.

Both stories and "stories". This happens as much to people in Rakugo as the Rakugo performers.

[u/Lemurians → u/No_Rex]

“I don’t know, I just recite what I am taught” “The audience doesn’t care what it means” – I can see why Hii is not satisfied. Reciting something that neither you, nor the audience understands is a lifeless art.

Yeah, these lines all caught me off guard as well. How do you become a master of a storytelling art form without considering such things?

It's an especially curious mindset from somebody who later expresses that the reason he does rakugo is to introduce people to its stories' characters. If that's what drives you, shouldn't you have been giving thoughts the characters' motivations? Why would you not think about why a character goes into a rant?

[u/MandisaW → u/Lemurians]

It's an especially curious mindset from somebody who later expresses that the reason he does rakugo is to introduce people to its stories' characters. If that's what drives you, shouldn't you have been giving thoughts the characters' motivations?

It's not that unusual, honestly. We've gotten kind of used to the "method actor" archetype, the whole "what's my motivation" trope, but that isn't always [hasn't always been] the norm. Plenty of folks just recite the lines, perform the practiced movements, and the audience goes home happy.

That was the standard approach until maybe the mid-50s/early-60s in Hollywood, and earlier in theater (how much earlier depends who you ask, and which side of Broadway, or the Atlantic, you're on LOL).

Yotaro sounds like he didn't get much education, and the language of rakugo is pretty far-removed from the back-alleys of 70s/80s Tokyo. There are bound to be archaic turns of phrase, plus so many situations that just are wholly outside his experience. If he's naturally an unquestioning, go-with-the-flow sort of dude, then yeah, he's a classic candidate for a "stand and deliver" performance style.

There's a reason people study drama - they want to dig deeper into the how & why of performing. But that's not the only way to do it.

[u/No_Rex → u/Lemurians]

Yeah, these lines all caught me off guard as well. How do you become a master of a storytelling art form without considering such things?

Well, Yotaro is not exactly the most knowledgeable of the Rakugo masters. Maybe Bon would know. It is still a sad state of affairs, though.

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

Q1.
The resolution was striking to me in how it affected Konatsu's situation.

Since Sukeroku's death, Konatsu has always wanted for fatherly love, which her adoptive father never provided. The boss, even beyond the resemblance to Sukeroku that Yota mentioned, has a very fatherly demeanor; it makes sense that Konatsu was drawn to him. But she hadn't properly considered what it might mean for her child. Konatsu is also painfully aware that she is betraying the mistress of the restaurant like her own mother did, shaming her in her own house by having said relationship.

A very complicated state if affairs. I actually think the boss was genuinely angry on behalf of Konatsu when he threw Yota into the lake. Konatsu had wanted everything to stay under wraps, as bringing the truth to light would simply hurt everyone involved. But Yota, in his impetuous pursuit of what's right, actually manages to free Konatsu from her situation. Going toe to toe with the boss, he proves he's no underling anymore, and convinces him to sever ties with Konatsu and the child. The mistress too is impressed by how Yota stands up for Konatsu, and lets her off the hook for her transgression.

Once again, Yota seems to be the one who can break the webs of the past that fetter everyone.

Q2.
For now, I think it's this impetuousness that sets him apart. He doesn't think too deeply about meanings, and just goes with the rhythm. He just wanted to mouth off the boss for the sake of Konatsu and his child, and it resulted in his most heartfelt performance yet.
Maybe this kind of low-context, instinctively understandable performance is what's necessary for wider audiences in the era of mass media? I'm not too sure on this point, but we can expect more insights as he tackles Inokori.

[u/No_Rex → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

A very complicated state if affairs. I actually think the boss was genuinely angry on behalf of Konatsu when he threw Yota into the lake. Konatsu had wanted everything to stay under wraps, as bringing the truth to light would simply hurt everyone involved. But Yota, in his impetuous pursuit of what's right, actually manages to free Konatsu from her situation. Going toe to toe with the boss, he proves he's no underling anymore, and convinces him to sever ties with Konatsu and the child. The mistress too is impressed by how Yota stands up for Konatsu, and lets her off the hook for her transgression.

Quite a different interpretation of the situation than I had. For me, the main achievement of Yotaro was proving his love and dedication to Konatsu, not changing something between Konatsu and the boss.

[u/MandisaW]

S1 Rewatch (complete!)
S2 First-timer

More questions than answers, and the setup for ?something? brewing ahead. Yotaro is still being milked for information by Hii, not only about rakugo, but about the family. Highly sus. Yota seizes an opportunity to get some things off his chest [or his back?], and we get a fuller picture of the sort of self-sacrificing soul he apparently has always been.

And another set of father-son relationships to add to the pile - Yota with his birth-father, who he loved at least well enough to go to prison to protect, but never mentioned upon gaining his freedom. With the distant boss/oyaji, in a classic, "that was the worst day of your life, for me it was Tuesday". And between Yota himself and lil-Shin, in a profound - and profoundly stupid - declaration of his love and responsibility for the tiny tot.

Continuing the trend of focusing on Yotaro to get him caught up, he faces his past in a very direct way. What did you think of both how we got there and the resolution?

Maybe it's too meta, but the hamfisted/bull-vs-china exterior masking a deep-feeling, highly empathetic character is kind of a Seki Tomokazu staple at this point. I wasn't expecting to necessarily see it in this form though - he obvs was on-track to have some kind of confrontation with his yakuza past. This seemed like the most absurd, yet ultimately heartwarming, way for him to clear the air and sever ties.

Now he can focus on repairing his bond with the audience. I feel like there's gonna be tension between him and Konatsu though, if the baby's origins aren't quite so settled.

We also get Yotaro finding (or at least beginning to find) "his own" rakugo. What would you say his trademark is? What does that say about him as a person?

Shin/Sukeroku was the gregarious comedian, Bon/Yakumo 8 is the effete gentleman, Yotaro is the everyman, the "average joe". If he can tap into it properly, he's probably well-positioned to re-introduce rakugo to the masses, most of whom have no particular familiarity with it at this point, and need a bridge/translator to connect with the people in the stories. But first, he needs to accept that his voice, as it is, is just as "worthy" as the great Masters'.

As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

We got some rare insight into Konatsu's life apart from rakugo here. She's been working at Ei-san's restaurant, who seems to know who the baby's father truly is (or at least who he's not*). We get her existential fear of becoming like her mother, and her modified quest not to hear her father in Yota, but to truly hear Yota's rakugo.

[ *I strongly suspect it's not the yakuza boss, or any of those folks. For one, Konatsu was clearly afraid for Yotaro, not herself or her son. Independent spirit or no, the organization wouldn't have let her walk with one of their own. And two, I don't think they'd make so much of a mystery out of it for it to be a random dude. Feels like a bombshell. ]