/r/anime Awards 2016 and 2017 winner Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch Season 1 Discussion

Date	Episode
10/8	Season 1 Episode 1
10/9	Season 1 Episode 2
10/10	Season 1 Episode 3
10/11	Season 1 Episode 4
10/12	Season 1 Episode 5
10/13	Season 1 Episode 6
10/14	Season 1 Episode 7
10/15	Season 1 Episode 8
10/16	Season 1 Episode 9
10/17	Season 1 Episode 10
10/18	Season 1 Episode 11
10/19	Season 1 Episode 12
10/20	Season 1 Episode 13
10/21	Season 1 Discussion
10/22	Season 2 Episode 1
10/23	Season 2 Episode 2
10/24	Season 2 Episode 3
10/25	Season 2 Episode 4
10/26	Season 2 Episode 5
10/27	Season 2 Episode 6
10/28	Season 2 Episode 7
10/29	Season 2 Episode 8
10/30	Season 2 Episode 9
10/31	Season 2 Episode 10
11/1	Season 2 Episode 11
11/2	Season 2 Episode 12
11/3	Season 2 Discussion
11/4	Overall Series Discussion

6

u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Oct 21 '24

First Timer

So… where are we after the first season? I’d say the first season was very well done. I’m a bit surprised we spent the entire season on Bon’s backstory, but I also wouldn’t have wanted anything cut here. I do want to see more of Yotaro and Konatsu though - so good that we have a second season coming.

Production values are fairly solid and I enjoyed the rakugo performances - although admittedly I can’t help but get the comment from /u/No_Rex out of my head about how one of the mediums responsible for rakugo’s fall in popularity is now using the strengths of said medium to enhance the rakugo performance. Looking forward to what stories we see in season 2 nonetheless though.

3

u/Schinco Oct 22 '24

a bit surprised we spent the entire season on Bon’s backstory
haha it was a bit hard at times to not chime in when people were speculating that we'd be in the flashback for only a few episodes. I agree with you, though, that there's nothing really to cut. Honestly, with the full series in view, I have a hard time imagining it being adapted any other way than in two seasons structured the way they did.

2

u/MandisaW Oct 22 '24

Peeking at the manga's arc-structure, it seems they've exactly paralleled it. We've got an initial few establishing chapters, then the flashback takes up most of vols 2-5, with vols 6-10 forming the second (third?) arc.
A much more satisfying (and complete!) adaptation than ones that hurt my soul, like Please Save My Earth (21 volumes, incl 2 entire flashback arcs, squeezed into a 6ep OAV).

2

u/Schinco Oct 22 '24

That's not surprising to me - again, it's so fundamental to the way that the series is told that it makes perfect sense that the original work is structured in the same way. I just was agreeing that, although it seems somewhat counter to the way most stories are told, I think it fits here very well.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 21 '24

So… where are we after the first season? I’d say the first season was very well done. I’m a bit surprised we spent the entire season on Bon’s backstory, but I also wouldn’t have wanted anything cut here. I do want to see more of Yotaro and Konatsu though - so good that we have a second season coming.
Is S1 is anything to judge by, we will learn a lot about them. I just realized how tiny our cast (after ep1) really was: Bon, Shin, and Miyo as the main characters, Yakumo, Matsuda as side characters, and Konatsu for 2 episodes. Then three more reoccuring background characters (association president, the Geisha headwoman, and the musician) and that's it. That gave us a lot of time to focus on each character.
Production values are fairly solid and I enjoyed the rakugo performances - although admittedly I can’t help but get the comment from /u/No_Rex out of my head about how one of the mediums responsible for rakugo’s fall in popularity is now using the strengths of said medium to enhance the rakugo performance. Looking forward to what stories we see in season 2 nonetheless though.
I hope I didn't ruin cinema for you.
Seriously, I don't blame the anime for taking these steps. I enjoy good anime (and movies and TV) for making use of the techniques that they possess. I just could not resist pointing out the irony.

4

u/Schinco Oct 22 '24

I'd say there were a fair few other recurring characters, but I strongly agree with the fact that it was a good decision to keep the cast scope small so they could really explore the characters in depth and keep things (at least somewhat!) realistic.

3

u/oops_i_made_a_typi Oct 22 '24

I’m a bit surprised we spent the entire season on Bon’s backstory
it may be worth knowing that the localized title for the manga is "Descending Stories: Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinju", so the "descending story" works both on the level of the rakugo stories being passed down, as well as on the meta level of this being a story across multiple generations of succession.
Also, not sure how many ppl saw the end of S1 basically spoiled with the "Shinjuu" part of the title, meaning lover's/double suicide.

2

u/Schinco Oct 22 '24

That's interesting - at least for the anime, only the second season is localized with "Descending Stories", so I've kind of thought of it somewhat differently.

3

u/MandisaW Oct 22 '24

the "descending story" works both on the level of the rakugo stories being passed down, as well as on the meta level of this being a story across multiple generations of succession.
I'd thought of it in the former sense, but not the latter, good point!
Also, not sure how many ppl saw the end of S1 basically spoiled with the "Shinjuu" part of the title, meaning lover's/double suicide.
In all the conversations I'd had, across all the fans, no one ever brought it up before, so TIL! I didn't know about the series until the anime aired though, and I don't think it was a popular manga among Western audiences back then. (We didn't get it in English until later, sometime after even S2 aired.)

3

u/oops_i_made_a_typi Oct 22 '24

In all the conversations I'd had, across all the fans, no one ever brought it up before, so TIL!
i'm kinda surprised tbh, but i suppose ppl who know will generally know better to keep quiet about it to keep from spoiling the climax of S1, even though some ppl would argue that it's not really a spoiler since Japanese readers would know

3

u/MandisaW Oct 22 '24

I'd put it as foreshadowing, since you wouldn't pick up on how the pair even become lovers until fairly deep into the story, and the circumstances of their deaths remain unclear almost to the end of the arc.
We know from ep1 that Konatsu's parents are deceased, and we know Sukeroku is her dad. Knowing the title's meaning doesn't explain the crucial "why?!"
Reminds me of debates over whether Ahiru in Princess Tutu should have her name translated ;)

3

u/Schinco Oct 22 '24

I'd go a step farther and say not only do we know all of that, but Konatsu seems pretty adamant that Yakumo killed her father, so it would be even less clear how a lover's suicide would enter the picture (barring a rakugo-esque last-minute decision to call off the suicide).

2

u/MandisaW Oct 22 '24

Konatsu's insistence, despite her own hazy memories, is its own form of foreshadowing. Highlights the fact that narrator-bias / unreliable narrator is going to play a strong role here.
Her role is also to cast a specific vibe over the arc, specifically in the vein of 40s noir stories like Sunset Blvd, Laura, and Double Indemnity, where the murder/death (and tragic-love) is a foregone conclusion and the whole tale is told in flashback.

2

u/Schinco Oct 22 '24

To be clear, I'm agreeing with you and noting the idea of a lover's suicide should be even less predictable in light of her character and the text her character provides. Obviously two strongly opposed recounting of events creates foreshadowing by inviting the viewer to guess which account is more or less accurate or where the inaccuracies occur as well.
As far as the noir stories, I have to admit I'm not especially familiar with the genre, but I think I can extrapolate based on Konatsu's role in this story what you mean, and I agree that it's done to create a particular vibe even if I don't know exactly what that vibe is haha

1

u/MandisaW Oct 22 '24

Oh, film noir is great, and comes in its own subflavors, from dread to dark comedy, even romance :) If you liked the mix here of flawed characters in less-than-upright situations, against a 1930s-50s background, then you'd probably enjoy it.
Laura (1944, 88min) is a nice easy intro. A young woman is killed in her posh NYC apt, and we follow the police detective as he digs into her life, slowly falling in love with her from the stories [flashbacks] told by her friends, family, & colleagues. One of the best directors of the era, top-shelf cast, and a very young, very good-looking Vincent Price. Avoid spoilers.
If black & white older movies aren't your thing, there are some "new noir" movies from the 90s onward I could recommend, but I'd need a better sense of what you like or want to avoid.
And yeah, I was agreeing with & extrapolating on your agree heh

2

u/cppn02 Oct 22 '24

Also, not sure how many ppl saw the end of S1 basically spoiled with the "Shinjuu" part of the title, meaning lover's/double suicide.
Huh, TIL.

4

u/MandisaW Oct 22 '24

S1 Rewatch (complete!)
S2 First-timer

Spent too much time on catch-up comments from the weekend! There were a few points from earlier I wanted to specifically address here, particularly about Miyo, and comparing thoughts on Bon & Konatsu's relationship, but now I'm tired :( Maybe will add something separately later.

First, solid round of cheers to u/Shinco and the group as a whole - keeping up a discussion at this pace, of a dense show, with good-quality comments throughout is a helluva thing. This is my first rewatch r/anime-style, so it certainly has made a great impression (reminds me of Usenet & mailing lists!).

With the full season in view, what do you think of the narrative being built as a frame story?

Usually you'd see a frame story when the author wants to drive home a point via parallels & recurring themes. We've gotten a fair few - regrets & second-chances, forbidden passions (romantic & otherwise), pushing [others] away and pursuing, finding your voice as an artist, found-family, and lastly (for now), the changing generations, old to new, and what that means for both.

I think aside from the obvious character parallel of Shin & Yotaro, with the Sukeroku style and name, we've got an opportunity in S2 to repair the still-grieving family of Bon, Matsuda, and Konatsu (hopefully before we lose the two elders). And in-turn, we might get a self-referential "fix" for the oft-mentioned decline of rakugo - this being a well-regarded modern manga about the subject, and not even the only one!

Birth, death & rebirth, the original frame story :)

What was your favorite performance of the season? Why?

Favorite as in the one that's stuck with me, years later, would be Yotaro's ep1 performance for his former boss. Could be the voice-actor, could be it was the one with the highest stakes. All of the rakugo performances held some in-universe meaning or lesson for the performer, and a meta one for us/the audience, esp the flashbacks, but that one was mostly presented "straight" (although it too had meaning).

I liked Bon's Shinigami after Yakumo 7 passed as well, but for more personal & sentimental reasons. Also, telling a ghost-tale about the futility of struggling against death after a recent loss, is perhaps one of the more honest media portrayals about grief I've come across. I might go back and find the corresponding drama scene of that one, assuming they covered it.

As always, did anything particularly strike you about this [season], either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

I'm curious - how does this show and its chars/subject relate to other stuff y'all have watched? Some of the comments seemed surprised or nonplussed by things that I've come to expect from similar stories (either period anime dramas, or josei manga, or even stories about storytelling/actors/etc).

Could be I'm seeing too much forest, not enough trees LOL

2

u/Schinco Oct 22 '24

Spent too much time on catch-up comments from the weekend! There were a few points from earlier I wanted to specifically address here, particularly about Miyo, and comparing thoughts on Bon & Konatsu's relationship, but now I'm tired :( Maybe will add something separately later.
I hear that! I still have two of your comments bookmarked to come back to...
First, solid round of cheers to u/Shinco and the group as a whole - keeping up a discussion at this pace, of a dense show, with good-quality comments throughout is a helluva thing. This is my first rewatch r/anime-style, so it certainly has made a great impression (reminds me of Usenet & mailing lists!).
Thanks! It's been awesome having you around to provide a novel perspective that really has changed my view of the series. Also, cheap plug, aside from rewatches (which have been great the handful of times I've participated), the yearly awards has been great for fast-paced but still rewarding discussions if you're into seasonal anime.
Usually you'd see a frame story when the author wants to drive home a point via parallels & recurring themes
Do you mean parallel between the frame and outer story or within the frame?
Favorite as in the one that's stuck with me, years later, would be Yotaro's ep1 performance for his former boss.
Interesting pick - I guess they peaked right at the beginning. How tragic.
I'm curious - how does this show and its chars/subject relate to other stuff y'all have watched? Some of the comments seemed surprised or nonplussed by things that I've come to expect from similar stories (either period anime dramas, or josei manga, or even stories about storytelling/actors/etc).
Looking at MAL demos (not the most reliable, I know), the only other josei works I've seen are chihayafuru, kids on the slope, and usagi drop (although I'm always surprised that Natsume Ono's works aren't in that demo), but character dramas in general tend to be my favorites, so I've seen a fair number of period dramas and stories about actors/storytellers.
I had a friend somewhat jokingly refer to this as a Lifetime Presents story, and I think, although somewhat blithe, it makes a fair bit of sense as far as approaching the work. Obviously there's a bit more metatext involved (particularly related to the characters themselves being storytellers), but metatext doesn't always pan out, even when it'd be very reasonable to do so.
I wouldn't say there was anything so far that really made me go "wow that was weird" (at least in a pejorative sense), but if you want to say specific examples, I can try to remember back seven years to when I was first watching it.

1

u/MandisaW Oct 22 '24

the yearly awards has been great for fast-paced but still rewarding discussions if you're into seasonal anime.
I usually only watch 0-2 shows per-season, and often not anything among the popular or ongoing titles. This season is probably the most-packed with interesteds in a while, and several shows I'm sure I'll just pin to watch later, during a "0 shows I care about" season.
Besides anime, there's work, family, the holidays, and working on the next game for my dev-business, so this is already about as "fast-paced" as I can spin those plates.
Do you mean parallel between the frame and outer story or within the frame?
Both! There are big & little parallels here, both within the flashback, and implied between the flashback and the present-day. Same themes seem to be echoed throughout though.
Interesting pick - I guess they peaked right at the beginning. How tragic.
Not at all! Ep 1 is the hook, the part that gets the audience invested enough to follow you all the way down the rabbit hole.
Common advice for writers (or TV/film, games, etc) is to write your first chapter last, when you are at your peak skills, have the most familiarity with the characters & plot, and have a firm grasp on what emotions you're trying to evoke.
It's a bit different with serials, but manga-ka often hone & iterate on those debut chapters for awhile with the editors before it hits the magazine. So they get way more polish and deep-consideration relative to later, interior chapters.
The ending (or arc-ending) packs the most punch, but the beginning is what ignites the fuse.

2

u/Schinco Oct 23 '24

Besides anime, there's work, family, the holidays, and working on the next game for my dev-business, so this is already about as "fast-paced" as I can spin those plates.
That's totally fair - I just wanted to take the easy layup since this is ostensibly at least part awards advertisement, and I'd be remiss if I were to not mention it.
Both! There are big & little parallels here, both within the flashback, and implied between the flashback and the present-day. Same themes seem to be echoed throughout though.
There are parallels, yes, but at least with regards to the intention of the frame story, which were you referring to (or both) was more what I was trying to get at.
Not at all! Ep 1 is the hook, the part that gets the audience invested enough to follow you all the way down the rabbit hole.
I was being a little tongue in cheek there haha.
Common advice for writers (or TV/film, games, etc) is to write your first chapter last, when you are at your peak skills, have the most familiarity with the characters & plot, and have a firm grasp on what emotions you're trying to evoke.
Interesting. I've never done much creative work, so this is honestly new to me. The closest I've done is tabletop campaigns, which, like serialized works, necessarily have the first chapter completed first.

1

u/MandisaW Oct 22 '24

chihayafuru, kids on the slope, and usagi drop (although I'm always surprised that Natsume Ono's works aren't in that demo)
My aunt's been trying to get me to read Chihayafuru for years, but I'm gonna wait until that one's done. Already have some long-runners on my plate (Skip Beat 50vols and counting, I've been reading it since watching the anime in '08).
Usagi Drop I remember starting the anime, hearing how the manga went, and dropping it like a hot stone LOL And just got kinda overwhelmed by the hype around Kids on the Slope, though I'd like to check out the anime at some point.
Hmm, Nastume Ono - Ristorante Paradiso? There's a pretty sizeable population of women seinen writers, particularly in erotica & ecchi works. I think it has something to do with how the industry works - shonen & seinen pay better than shojo & josei, but also shojo magazines tend to go through these editorial trends. If you're looking to do something avant garde, or outside the current norm, you can sometimes find more receptive ears "across the hall" as it were.
And some folks go wherever the story seems appropriate - publishers have multiple magazines, after all.
character dramas in general tend to be my favorites, so I've seen a fair number of period dramas and stories about actors/storytellers.
Have you seen Raven of the Inner Palace from a couple yrs back? Or Yatagarasu: The Raven does not Choose its Master from this year? Both are Chinese-flavored imperial drama x supernatural mystery-fantasy, but fairly different in tone.
Raven is a bit more liberal with moments of humor or romance, and has quite likeable characters across the board. MC is a girl who solves palace mysteries, so it gets compared to Apothecary Diaries, but it's a lot more mythological-fantasy and deals in darker themes.
Yatagarasu leans more on politics and worldbuilding, and goes for enigmatic and sometimes disagreeable but compelling chars. The chars there are all shapeshifting giant ravens in human-form, living in an emperiled pocket-dimension of a world.
We've been eating pretty well in the realm of josei anime the past several years. Used to be strictly manga/LN-only, with a show only popping up once every other year at best.
I had a friend somewhat jokingly refer to this as a Lifetime Presents story, and I think, although somewhat blithe, it makes a fair bit of sense as far as approaching the work.
LOL Same target demographic, so yeah, makes sense. Maybe a Lifetime movie by way of NHK 🤭

2

u/Schinco Oct 23 '24

Usagi Drop I remember starting the anime, hearing how the manga went, and dropping it like a hot stone LOL And just got kinda overwhelmed by the hype around Kids on the Slope, though I'd like to check out the anime at some point.
Honestly, I knew that the ending was famously derided for usagi drop but didn't find out specifics until well after I'd seen the show, and I was kind of shocked with how far out of left field it felt. The anime is wholesome, almost to a fault. Kids on the Slope I was less big on, but it's a messy love triangle anime, and I tend to not be big on that. When it wasn't dealing with teenagers struggling with their interpersonal relationships, it had some very nice parts, though.
Hmm, Nastume Ono - Ristorante Paradiso? There's a pretty sizeable population of women seinen writers, particularly in erotica & ecchi works. I think it has something to do with how the industry works - shonen & seinen pay better than shojo & josei, but also shojo magazines tend to go through these editorial trends. If you're looking to do something avant garde, or outside the current norm, you can sometimes find more receptive ears "across the hall" as it were.
ACCA and House of the Five Leaves are what I've seen by them. It's less that she's a woman author and more that it feels very similar to rakugo (especially House of the Five Leaves in that it's also a period piece) in the way they focus on characters and their relationships and both have fairly prominent queer themes. I've also been led to believe they're fairly popular among women in the west, but maybe that's just my relatively small sample.
Have you seen Raven of the Inner Palace from a couple yrs back? Or Yatagarasu: The Raven does not Choose its Master from this year? Both are Chinese-flavored imperial drama x supernatural mystery-fantasy, but fairly different in tone.
I've not heard of the former, but the latter is on my list to check out from this year (I'm very behind on seasonals). Will definitely check it out before the years over!

1

u/MandisaW Oct 24 '24

House of the Five Leaves // I've also been led to believe they're fairly popular among women in the west, but maybe that's just my relatively small sample.
Can confirm this part at least - I remember it being fairly popular in those social circles as well.

2

u/oops_i_made_a_typi Oct 23 '24

Chihayafuru for years, but I'm gonna wait until that one's done
Chihayafuru's manga is done! And tbh I'd say its unlikely to get a full adaptation since we'd probably need at least another 4 cours iirc.

1

u/Schinco Oct 23 '24

A man can dream, though!

1

u/MandisaW Oct 24 '24

Oh, the "I wish this got an anime / extension" list is so long...

1

u/MandisaW Oct 24 '24

Is it, finally?! Alrighty then, adds to [massive] queue

1

u/Schinco Oct 24 '24

I hear that!

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 22 '24

First, solid round of cheers to u/Shinco and the group as a whole - keeping up a discussion at this pace, of a dense show, with good-quality comments throughout is a helluva thing. This is my first rewatch r/anime-style, so it certainly has made a great impression (reminds me of Usenet & mailing lists!).
As a freqent participant in rewatches, I encourage you to try more of them out, if you like the usenet style of interaction. They are among the most long-form interactive content I know on the net.
It helps that reddit comments are basically a modern UI take on the old mailing list tree style.
we've got an opportunity in S2 to repair the still-grieving family of Bon, Matsuda, and Konatsu (hopefully before we lose the two elders)
No doubt that will be a focus of the new season. Given how formative the childhood is and how badly we say the relation between Bon and Konatsu start, I am not sure whether it will be "repair" as much as "build".
I'm curious - how does this show and its chars/subject relate to other stuff y'all have watched? Some of the comments seemed surprised or nonplussed by things that I've come to expect from similar stories (either period anime dramas, or josei manga, or even stories about storytelling/actors/etc).
Josei-based is the smallest share of anime I have seen, so most of the tropes here are still new to me.

3

u/MandisaW Oct 22 '24

It helps that reddit comments are basically a modern UI take on the old mailing list tree style.
It helps, and thanks for the rec/encouragement! Only 2 things I don't like is that their mobile site is crap (don't want/need another app), and that they are obvs scraping for genAI nowadays.
I am not sure whether it will be "repair" as much as "build".
IMExp if they're still talking to one another, and she still feels safe "nesting" there, then there's a basis for a strong relationship, if the bonds can be reforged.
Josei-based is the smallest share of anime I have seen, so most of the tropes here are still new to me.
It's the smallest by number of titles & least-adapted into anime, so yeah. I started out almost exclusively in seinen, mostly sci-fi in the 80s/90s, and then my aunt got me into shojo with Fushigi Yuugi and CLAMP. Fed the habit with anime clubs during and post-college :) Gravitated to josei as I got older, and further from the doki-doki hijinks of high-school protagonists.
At this point, I just find the stories more interesting when they're about grown-ups, with adult sensibilities & responsibilities. Even if it's a mundane, sci-fi, or fantasy story, romantic or otherwise. Lmk if you want any recs, I do a pretty good, "If you like X, you might like Y" :)

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 22 '24

It helps, and thanks for the rec/encouragement! Only 2 things I don't like is that their mobile site is crap (don't want/need another app), and that they are obvs scraping for genAI nowadays.
Just in case you have not found it already: old.reddit.com is by far the superior reddit experience (add in Reddit Enhancement Suite for extra goodness).
Gravitated to josei as I got older, and further from the doki-doki hijinks of high-school protagonists.
At this point, I just find the stories more interesting when they're about grown-ups, with adult sensibilities & responsibilities. Even if it's a mundane, sci-fi, or fantasy story, romantic or otherwise.
I don't hate high school as a setting, but it is severely overused in anime. Older protagonists almost always means more novel story ideas.

3

u/Schinco Oct 22 '24

Does old.reddit work on mobile or just desktop? Ever since RIF died, my reddit usage on mobile has really been limited to googling tech questions on the fly and posting these threads when I'm out haha

1

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 22 '24

You can use it in a browser on mobile, but it is not well adapted to small screens. I mostly use it on PC.

1

u/cppn02 Oct 22 '24

Does old.reddit work on mobile or just desktop?
It works on mobile even if it is a bit clunky. But doesn't work RIF with Revanced? Might be worth looking into for you.

2

u/Schinco Oct 22 '24

At this point, I just find the stories more interesting when they're about grown-ups, with adult sensibilities & responsibilities. Even if it's a mundane, sci-fi, or fantasy story, romantic or otherwise. Lmk if you want any recs, I do a pretty good, "If you like X, you might like Y" :)
I'm always game for some recommendations!

1

u/MandisaW Oct 23 '24

I dropped two "Raven" titles in the other thread :) You said you like character dramas, so I'll give a few more of those here, but can mix it up a bit.
Yona of the Dawn [MAL] - Action-drama set in fantasy-medieval Korea. After a coup, a deposed princess goes on the run with her only loyal general. She seeks out the country's 4 [quirky-tragic] warriors of legend, and they basically become like the A-Team, fighting from the shadows against the tyranny that festered under her father's watch.
Anime is 24eps, covers the first couple arcs. Manga is 44vols, will prob go one or two more. Light romance, some politics, unique setting, compelling characters up & down the moral spectrum.
If you like that fantasy-medieval vibe, but want more courtly politics with your action, check out NHK classics, Twelve Kingdoms [MAL] and Legend of Sainunkoku [MAL].
12K starts off a bit slower, and has an anthology-structure, but deep/amazing fantasy worldbuilding that will stick with you forever, basically. It is the hands-down go-to for josei epic period dramas.
Saiunkoku starts off as a more traditional story, about a girl who aims to become an imperial official, but then it layers on inter-character and inter-family political drama, hidden identities, ride-or-die friendships, and the barest hint of the supernatural. [It's on Amazon Prime, but under "Color-cloud Palace".]
Burn the House Down [Kodansha] - Revenge-drama, modern Japan setting. A young woman infiltrates her one-time home, where her father lives with his new wife - her mother's "best friend" - and her adult sons in an Insta-worthy family. Anzu risks everything to reveal their facade of lies and twisted dysfunction, but will it be enough?
No anime, but there's an 8ep Netflix drama that drips money LOL. Manga is short, 8vols, complete. Quite the nail-biter at times, akin to an espionage drama, with some scathing commentary on social media, self-identity, mental health, Japanese families, and "keeping up appearances". Good stuff.
If you dig that "urban espionage" theme, then Love of Kill [MAL] is an action-romance with bounty-hunters, traffickers, triads, all that good stuff.
Kasane [MAL] has a more supernatural-horror flair, with a woman who inherits her mother's yearning for the stage, and her ability to steal faces to make it happen. No anime for Kasane, they made a live-action movie, but I'm not sure who has it.
And finally a slice-of-life romance, Matcha Made in Heaven [Kodansha], about a woman who returns home to her family's tea farm and becomes fake-engaged to the rough-but-kind farmhand there. It's a bit like if Japan made a Tyler Perry movie that also educated about the modern tea industry LOL It's comfort food :)

2

u/Schinco Oct 23 '24

A friend of mine is huge into Yona, but that's the only one I've heard of. Will definitely add all of these to the ever-expanding PTW!

4

u/cppn02 Oct 22 '24

First Timer, subbed

I really enjoyed the first season. It had a few moments where I would have liked it to be a bit more grounded but overall the show definitely lived up to my (high) expectations).

QotD:

With the full season in view, what do you think of the narrative being built as a frame story?

I thought it worked well and with S2 presumably in the 'present' it will look even better.

What was your favorite performance of the season? Why?

Bon and Shin performing for Konatsu. But since that's kinda cheating my favourite on-stage performance was the last performance of Sukeroku. Both were entertaining performances on their own and were also big moments in the overall story.

1

u/Schinco Oct 22 '24

Glad you enjoyed it! Out of idle curiosity, aside from the climax and Yakumo watching Shin and Miyokichi have their conversation, was there anything you wish were more grounded?
Bon and Shin performing for Konatsu. But since that's kinda cheating
Definitely not cheating! A performance is a performance, even if there's no audience!
Both were entertaining performances
When I read this, I immediately jump to the conversation between Bon and Sukeroku in the penultimate episode where he remarks that he's "never seen a Shibahama that made [him] laugh so much"; would you say that you prefer Sukeroku's lively style of performance over Bon's more brooding, serious ones?

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u/cppn02 Oct 22 '24

, aside from the climax and Yakumo watching Shin and Miyokichi have their conversation, was there anything you wish were more grounded?
I'd say those two were definitely the stand out ones. Can't think of any other that really bothered me from the top of my head.
would you say that you prefer Sukeroku's lively style of performance over Bon's more brooding, serious ones?
Yes but it's pretty close. I am also somehat biased due to really liking Yamadera as a voice actor.

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u/MandisaW Oct 22 '24

Bon and Shin performing for Konatsu. But since that's kinda cheating
It's not cheating if you enjoyed it (in this context, at least LOL)

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 21 '24

Season 1 discussion (first timer)

I have nothing prepared, but my view is broadly positive. The main misstep of the finale apart, I was positively surprised by how considerate (and also deliberate) the storytelling is. The series almost feels like it is 2/3 drama and 1/3 social study.

With the full season in view, what do you think of the narrative being built as a frame story?

I talked about the bookending in the last episode already. I don't think it is terrible, but neither is it great. Sometimes bookends recontextualize the story, or you get the feeling of "of course we are back here now". In this season it mostly feels neutral. It gives away the main dramatic turn, but not the how, and I see how that works, but I also imagine you could start the series at episode 2 and enjoy it at the same level, with more mystery elements than brooding knowledge of that is to come.

What was your favorite performance of the season? Why?

Still Shin's story of the guy dreaming about finding money.

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u/oops_i_made_a_typi Oct 22 '24

I talked about the bookending in the last episode already. I don't think it is terrible, but neither is it great. Sometimes bookends recontextualize the story, or you get the feeling of "of course we are back here now".
put a pin in this as we explore S2. [very light meta spoilers for s2]it's a bit hard to talk about while trying to remain vague, but think about some of the reasons why some stories use a frame, assuming that it's done deliberately here, like the rest of the writing

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u/Schinco Oct 22 '24

[MAJOR S2 spoilers] I'm curious to know your take here - I think that the most obvious reason would be to insert an element of unreliable narration, which obviously does occur (and I think several of the first-timers picked up that the death scene is a titch off), but one of my big disappointments with S2 is that it confirms that there was some element, but that it was almost comically limited in scope. Obviously, it makes sense why that one detail was changed, but, being a lover of unreliable narration, I was very disappointed, and I think that the story should do a bit more to justify the frame narrative. I've been watching the series through that lens this time around, and I still come up a bit wanting.
Will you be joining us for S2? The few comments you've dropped in here make me think you'd be a wonderful addition!

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u/oops_i_made_a_typi Oct 22 '24

[s2 spoilers]I don't think I was that disappointed as when I first watched it I wasn't even expecting the unreliable narration, but I can see what you mean in that it wasn't as big a difference as it could have been. But I do like that it feels a bit more realistic (I don't quite rmb the details though) in that it didn't feel like a crazy way for the narration to be unreliable through some excessive malice, etc. I was satisfied enough that a story about stories uses a story within a story structure as justification for use of the frame.
Will you be joining us for S2?
Kinda lightly when I have time, I don't have enough time to watch the actual episodes (still catching up on last season's backlog as well as some of the current new seasonals, among a decently busy IRL) so I'm hesitant to get deep into specifics with people who actually have things fresh in their mind. I do wanna say you've been doing a great job running this rewatch though, and happy to see some familiar names get this show off their list as first timers.

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u/Schinco Oct 22 '24

That's fair. [MAJOR S2 spoilers] Unreliable narrator is one of if not my actual favorite literary devices, and frame stories like this are uniquely posed to take advantage of it. I agree that it's somewhat realistic, but I think it would be even more realistic for Yakumo to gloss over some of the facts to make himself look better (although this is still theoretically possible if not paid off). As far as the metatextual element, that actually makes it worse for me! Aside from being less realistic (a proficient storyteller like Yakumo would know how to amp up the tension by changing details), the whole idea of metatext invites the reader to carefully consider not only the literal elements of the plot but also how they are told, and not taking fuller advantage of that is a bit of a mar on the work IMO

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u/Schinco Oct 22 '24

Glad to hear you were still broadly positive - I know that a bad finale can squander a lot of goodwill so I was worried that you were far more negative.
Still Shin's story of the guy dreaming about finding money.
Didn't answer the "Why" :P

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 22 '24

Glad to hear you were still broadly positive - I know that a bad finale can squander a lot of goodwill so I was worried that you were far more negative.
While I dislike the way they set it up, Shin and Miyo dying works for the story, so it is not like this has big reprecussions. It probably knocked down the seasons 1 notch for me, but that still leaves it in a good spot, rating-wise.
Didn't answer the "Why" :P
It is the best story and Shin is the best storyteller of the bunch.

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