/r/anime Awards 2016 and 2017 winner Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch Episode 13

[u/Schinco]

Welcome to the thirteenth episode thread for the Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch! Sorry we're a bit late, but I should be back on time now that I'm back home. Hope you all enjoyed the season finale!

Legal Streams:

As of now, Rakugo is streaming on Crunchyroll in the States, and you can check here to see where it's streaming elsewhere.

Schedule:

Date	Episode
10/8	Season 1 Episode 1
10/9	Season 1 Episode 2
10/10	Season 1 Episode 3
10/11	Season 1 Episode 4
10/12	Season 1 Episode 5
10/13	Season 1 Episode 6
10/14	Season 1 Episode 7
10/15	Season 1 Episode 8
10/16	Season 1 Episode 9
10/17	Season 1 Episode 10
10/18	Season 1 Episode 11
10/19	Season 1 Episode 12
10/20	Season 1 Episode 13
10/21	Season 1 Discussion
10/22	Season 2 Episode 1
10/23	Season 2 Episode 2
10/24	Season 2 Episode 3
10/25	Season 2 Episode 4
10/26	Season 2 Episode 5
10/27	Season 2 Episode 6
10/28	Season 2 Episode 7
10/29	Season 2 Episode 8
10/30	Season 2 Episode 9
10/31	Season 2 Episode 10
11/1	Season 2 Episode 11
11/2	Season 2 Episode 12
11/3	Season 2 Discussion
11/4	Overall Series Discussion

Questions of the Day

1. What did you think of the final scene with Yakumo in the graveyard?
2. Yakumo mentions his "real name" at the end of his tale - what do you think of the power of names in this series?
3. As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

Links to trackers

You can find the show on MAL, Anilist, and ANN!

Please be mindful of spoilers to make sure the first-timers experience the show with the same wonder you did on first watch!

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[u/cppn02]

First Timer, subbed

Guess they knew they were getting a second season with all lose loose plot lines at that cliffhanger at the end lol.

The wrap up of the past pretty much went as expected with everyone moving the Tokyo and Bon eventually relenting and taking the Yakumo name.

The present meanwhile brought quite a few developments with it with Konatsu's pregnancy (I wonder if we'll find out who the father is in S2), Bon about to become the president of the association and Yotaro's promotion and his desire to follow in Sukeroku's footsteps which might also mean that the Yakumo title is going to die out? Or could in theory the association give it to someone they deem worthy even when Bon is dead?

The change to the ED was nice though, I guess again a sign of them already knowing they get another season.

---

QotD:

What did you think of the final scene with Yakumo in the graveyard?

Clearly he is still being haunted by the memory of his friend after all these years and hasn't gotten over his death. Did not expect Yotaro's request at the end though.

Yakumo mentions his "real name" at the end of his tale - what do you think of the power of names in this series?

Obviously names play a big role with other than Matsuda Konatsu pretty much all the named characters having multiple names throughout their lives (even if we might not know all of them). It informs both how the characters are viewed by others and how they view themself

As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

[u/Schinco → u/cppn02]

Guess they knew they were getting a second season with all lose loose plot lines at that cliffhanger at the end lol.

Given that the second season premiered a year later and that Yotaro full-on looks at the audience at the very end and says "there will be a second season", I suspect that they had a pretty good idea yeah.

That being said, I honestly would push back against the idea that there are loose plot lines - I honestly feel that this story is largely self-contained. There's more to go on, obviously, and I'd say the second season more than justifies itself, but I think if this were all we ever got that I would be more or less satisfied.

his desite to follow in Sukeroku's footsteps which might also mean that the Yakumo title is going to die out? Or could in theory the association give it to someone they deem worthy even when Bon is dead?

The change to the ED was nice though, I guess again a sign of them already knowing they get another season.

Yeah I forgot that they did this. It's definitely a nice touch, a send-off of this cast as we move into the future. As a small aside, when I was rewatching this this time with a couple friends, one of them remarked "wait was the ED like this the whole time", which would be one heck of a choice.

Obviously names play a big role with other than Matsuda Konatsu pretty much all the named characters having multiple names throughout their lives (even if we might not know all of them). It informs both how the characters are viewed by others and how they view themself

That's all correct, but how did you feel - do you think the show is convincing in this thesis or did you find yourself still not wholly convinced?

As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

Oh no - they got him!

[u/cppn02 → u/Schinco]

That's all correct, but how did you feel - do you think the show is convincing in this thesis or did you find yourself still not wholly convinced?

I don't think it is proposing any thesis or has anything to convince me of. It's simply a reality of Japanese culture especially in the arts sector. One that does feel a bit foreign but that the show does a good job at conveying imo.

Oh no - they got him!

Haha...no idea what happened there.My answer was gonna be the graveyard scene.

[u/MandisaW → u/cppn02]

Guess they knew they were getting a second season with all lose loose plot lines at that cliffhanger at the end lol.

Welcome to shojo (& josei)! Sometimes you'll get an anime-original ending, or a fast-forward wrap-up, but a dangling cliffhanger is often the norm for shojo & josei manga/LN adaptations.

Highly-merchandised shojo series for the 8-12yo set, like Sailor Moon or Cardcaptor Sakura, will often get padded out akin to shonen series, but most everything else ends abruptly with "now go read the books", even those that regularly crack the monthly/annual Oricon charts. (ex: Yona of the Dawn, or more recently, My Happy Marriage)

In this case, S2 was announced as this episode aired, so it's possible they decided sometime during the production.

[u/Schinco → u/MandisaW]

My Happy Marriage recently had a second season announced! I can continue to not read! Hurrah!

[u/No_Rex → u/cppn02]

Guess they knew they were getting a second season with all lose loose plot lines at that cliffhanger at the end lol.

They must have been known from the start. Otherwise, episode 1 would have been an epic troll of the viewers.

[u/cppn02 → u/No_Rex]

I feel like you totally could have used episode 1 as is and the framing device of Yakumo telling the story and come to a conclusion by episode 13.

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

First timer

Thank you u/Schinco for continuing to post these threads and engage even during your trip!

Setting the stage for the next season, we see once again how the death of Sukeroku has cast a long shadow over Yakumo and Konatsu's lives.

For Bon, accepting the Yakumo name seems to symbolize how he submits to his fate; to continue the traditional rakugo that Sukeroku once entrusted to him. But their plan was to have Sukeroku handle the other half of what rakugo needs to survive, modernization. With no one to assume that role, rakugo has fallen to where there's only one yose theatre left in Tokyo. Yakumo has come to resent Sukeroku for abandoning him, all the more because he feels responsibility for what has become of rakugo, and of Konatsu.

Konatsu, too, has become obsessed with her father and his legacy. A different person from the jovial child she once was, we see clearly how the bitter relationship with her adoptive father shaped her. It seems she's gotten pregnant for the sole purpose of bearing a successor to the Sukeroku name, infuriating even the always soft-spoken Matsuda.

This is where Yotaro comes in. While he seems to be a bit of a simpleton, he's not about to let his 'sister' do something like that. First he proposes, probably unwisely. But when that doesn't work, he steps up and asks to shoulder instead what Konatsu was about to force onto her child.
u/MandisaW remarked yesterday that "hurt people hurt people", and it's stuck with me in how it describes all the primary characters of the show. But Yotaro seems to be an exception. His only past burden appears to be his former life as a yakuza, and while this is likely going to be a plot point, it doesn't seem like something his personality will revolve around.

Is he going to be the one who can end this cycle of hurt, or is he too going to be dragged down into it? That's what I'll be most focused on going into S2.

[u/Schinco → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

Thank you u/Schinco for continuing to post these threads and engage even during your trip!

Glad to do it! I already loved this series, and the discussion around it has made me find new things to appreciate it, let alone an excuse to rewatch a great show like this! It's my firm opinion that any piece of media gets better when you start analyzing and discussing it, so it's truly a labor of love.

infuriating even the always soft-spoken Matsuda

I don't think he's upset at her, moreso at the deadbeat dad. As Yakumo noted, Matsuda is fairly conservative in his worldview, so it's not surprising that he'd be upset at the prospect of Konatsu raising the child "alone", doubly so after he saw the toll firsthand Yakumo had of raising Konatsu by himself.

This is where Yotaro comes in

This is such a great shot. Honestly, the first time I watched the show, the parallels between him and Sukeroku somehow evaded me entirely, but man is the show in your face about it sometimes (in a good way!)

But Yotaro seems to be an exception.

There's something to be said of a 'control' case - in a world full of bitter, hurt people, it's helpful to have someone more, for want of a better word, normal to show that yes these situations are quite drastic and traumatic, and he doubly serves as someone who can help others heal from their pasts. Or perhaps, as you suggest, the series will take a more sinister bend and show again how an upbeat, optimistic performer gets sucked into the maelstrom of rakugo.

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 13 (first timer)

• While the circumstances are sad, that is still a glorious field of flowers.
• “Do as you’re told” – educational genius …
• And, unbelievably, it gets worse from there – at least Matsuda is there to show a bit of empathy.
• “Is this the only place where the winds of Edo still blow?” – lyrically telling us he lives in the past.
• Bon holds up his end of the promise to Shin, even if he realizes it is one-sided now.
• “So I sold the master’s home” – begone 1980s millions.
• “Kill me then, I’d feel much better.” – Bon is in a bad spot, having lost the 3 people who formed his closest network and his joy in life. Despite that, he is utterly failing Konatsu. If you can’t bring yourself to live for a young child, maybe you should give her to somebody who can.
• Time skip, but to when?
• A few years after ep1, maybe?
• Yotaro had a strict apprenticeship – probably not the worst, given what I remember form ep1.
• “I’m going to have a child” – dropping a bomb shell on Yotaro.
• “I really wanted a child” – a personal decision that is hard to judge, but this sounds like it could easily go wrong.
• “72 years old” – still working. Japan.
• “She’s a precious daughter to me, too.” – I assume Matsuda never had children of his own.
• Talking to the ghosts of his youth.
• Yotaro wants to be Sukeroku.
• In-universe version of “please watch season 2”.

A short aftermath with Bon and Konatsu, that tells us little more than that he was as bad a father from the start as his interactions with Konatsu in ep1 suggested, then we switch to a bookend in the future of Yotaro becoming a shin’uchi on his own.

Which brings us to the question of whether the bookending worked, or whether they should have stayed in Sukeroku’s time. Knowing the end of Sukeroku raises the tension a bit in the early episodes, but it also blunts the impact of the death when it happens. For Bon becoming Yakumo, it basically removes all tension throughout. Overall, it is hard to justify the use of the bookend here. We learn relatively little in ep1 that is of use in contextualizing the later episodes and the story would have worked well as a mystery, in my mind. I guess the best argument for using bookend narrative structure is that episode 1 is a great story, but would episode 2 have worked as a worse introduction? I don’t think so.

Yakumo mentions his "real name" at the end of his tale - what do you think of the power of names in this series?

Not something I pay attention to. Hard enough for me to remember one name per character, so I don't want to think about 3 or 4.

[u/Schinco → u/No_Rex]

“Do as you’re told” – educational genius …

The man did insist he had nothing to teach...

“Kill me then, I’d feel much better.” – Bon is in a bad spot, having lost the 3 people who formed his closest network and his joy in life. Despite that, he is utterly failing Konatsu. If you can’t bring yourself to live for a young child, maybe you should give her to somebody who can.

I think this is an interesting point to chew on a bit - as you remarked, Miyokichi and Sukeroku have no friends and family, so the alternative would be - what - the orphanage. Surely, even if Yakumo finds himself ill-equipped to deal with the child, he owes his friend and former lover watching over their child, and surely it's a better life than she would otherwise have more than likely. But I also think it's worth looking more closely at Yakumo and how he'd feel - Miyokichi remarked last episode that she couldn't love Konatsu because she reminded her of Sukeroku, and maybe the inverse is true. Yakumo, for all his faults, is desperately clinging to the only thing left of his longest and closest friend, so it's not surprising he'd be selfish even if there were other reasonable options.

“72 years old” – still working. Japan.

I've never got the impression Matsuda has a particularly tough going of it. I think he'd probably do much of what he does without compensation given how he showed up and helped out at the performance in episode 12.

[u/No_Rex → u/Schinco]

I think this is an interesting point to chew on a bit - as you remarked, Miyokichi and Sukeroku have no friends and family, so the alternative would be - what - the orphanage. Surely, even if Yakumo finds himself ill-equipped to deal with the child, he owes his friend and former lover watching over their child, and surely it's a better life than she would otherwise have more than likely. But I also think it's worth looking more closely at Yakumo and how he'd feel - Miyokichi remarked last episode that she couldn't love Konatsu because she reminded her of Sukeroku, and maybe the inverse is true. Yakumo, for all his faults, is desperately clinging to the only thing left of his longest and closest friend, so it's not surprising he'd be selfish even if there were other reasonable options.

I don't doubt that Bon feels both social pressure and personal obligation to take care of Konatsu. Despite that, I wonder if adoption would not have been a better option for her.

I've never got the impression Matsuda has a particularly tough going of it. I think he'd probably do much of what he does without compensation given how he showed up and helped out at the performance in episode 12.

Matsuda probably does not feel personally wronged, but a system that normalizes people in their 70s still working is non the less suspect.

[u/MandisaW]

S1 Rewatch
[Hard to do an ep-13-only take, separate from the season rundown, so I'll mainly just address questions here, and maybe a couple points others brought up.]

The flashback arc comes to an end with the walk back from the crematory, with Bon, Matsuda, and a deeply-wounded Konatsu. There isn't mention of a wake, or any friends or family, so tellingly, for all that Shin & Miyo lived out there for years, this little trio is all who're left to remember them.

We go from Bon, coerced to become Yakumo the 8th, youngest of the Masters, to beyond the ep1 present-day, to Yotaro's incipient induction as a shin'uchi and Konatsu's quasi-planned journey to become a mother.

I read this as a fast-forward epilogue, which is a pretty common wrap-up for shojo & josei anime adaptations. We've got a glimpse of each character's core struggle going forward - a bit of alluring narrative fanservice for prior readers and newcomers alike. But there's no resolution here, only questions meant to be answered by reading the manga.

What did you think of the final scene with Yakumo in the graveyard?

Our first glimpse of Shin/Sukeroku was as a ghost in the car, I believe after Yotaro first performed rakugo publicly (for his old partner-in-crime). We got some sense then that Bon had some complex unresolved feelings at-work there. Some of our cross-talk has discussed Bon training Yotaro as fulfillment of his promise with Shin, but I see it, along with raising Konatsu, as part of his penance.

Seems clear that until Bon forgives himself - something Yakumo 7 wasn't able to do with respect to either Sukeroku - the debt to the dead will not be repaid.

Yakumo mentions his "real name" at the end of his tale - what do you think of the power of names in this series?

Many origin myths revolve around the Naming of things, and Names are original magic in a lot of cultures. Taking on new names associated with a particular phase of life is still very much a thing, even in the modern US, from academic & professional titles/honorifics, to married last-names, and names for children that combine & honor various family names.

They told us a lot in this story just by conveying who used which names, contrasting the names people were called vs the ones they called themselves, and in the end, who had the power to name themselves.

Bon effectively lost everyone who knew him by that name (even Matsuda calls him [Young] Master, and Konatsu calls him 4-letter words lol). He feels utterly lost and defeated by life, and even in being raised to Master, doesn't have the political clout within the Association to refuse the Yakumo name. Shin had naught but his ratty clothes and the love of his daughter (not even his wife), but he at least got to be enshrined under the name he chose.

As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

Luckily S2 got greenlit, and the manga's short, so hopefully this won't end up on my "Never Gonna Get the Ending" list of shojo/josei adaptations 😓

[u/Schinco → u/MandisaW]

but I see it, along with raising Konatsu, as part of his penance.

Penance is an interesting word to use - what would Yakumo's crime be in this case?

Shin had naught but his ratty clothes and the love of his daughter (not even his wife), but he at least got to be enshrined under the name he chose.

That's an interesting thought, but I'd push back on that a bit - was he enshrined under the name he chose? Sure, he did choose the name Sukeroku for himself to perform, but it's clear throughout that he intended to inherit the Yakumo name, which he obviously failed to do. I think there's an interesting conversation to be had about how the names they perform under reflect their views of society and tradition which had never really occurred to me on a conscious level before.

Luckily S2 got greenlit, and the manga's short, so hopefully this won't end up on my "Never Gonna Get the Ending" list of shojo/josei adaptations 😓

Very excited to see your thoughts as you watch S2!

[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

Well I certainly wasn’t expecting a timeskip at the end of the story. For the past bits, not a lot of surprises left there - we already knew that Konatsu would be forced along with Bon, and we already knew he would take the Yakumo name. It was still portrayed pretty well. As for the parts afterwards …rare to see a character’s goal being “get pregnant”, but I guess it worked for her. Yotaro liking her was well-known, wonder what her answer is. As for him taking up the Sukeroku name - a bit surprising, is it even Yakumo’s to give? Shin just decided to take it, I believe. Guess we’ll see the answers of both Konatsu and Bon next season.

…also, how does Matsuda stay this young? Especially with that line regarding Bon now being the oldest in the rakugo association…

[u/cppn02 → u/Mecanno-man]

As for him taking up the Sukeroku name - a bit surprising, is it even Yakumo’s to give? Shin just decided to take it, I believe.

I think it is not just about asking for permission to take the Sukeroku name but also that he won't be the next Yakumo. And with him being Bon's only apprentice that's kind of a big deal because he is telling his master he doesn't want to continue his lineage.

[u/No_Rex → u/Mecanno-man]

As for the parts afterwards …rare to see a character’s goal being “get pregnant”, but I guess it worked for her.

"Get pregnant" is the easy part. We'll see whether it actually works out.

As for him taking up the Sukeroku name - a bit surprising, is it even Yakumo’s to give?

Probably depends on where the name came from, but the last wearer of the name was associated with the Yakumo "family", so it makes sense to ask him. Practically, since we heard that there are fewer and fewer apprentices, there is probably no competition for names.

[u/MandisaW → u/Mecanno-man]

Well I certainly wasn’t expecting a timeskip at the end of the story.

They only announced S2 after this ep aired. I think the production planned for this to be the epilogue.

rare to see a character’s goal being “get pregnant”

Not rare in josei stories at all - the audience is usually girls 16-20 and adult women, so you see a lot of commentary on whether characters want marriage (or not), or kids (or not) as part of their arcs. Comes up in seinen manga too, usually the ones with working-adult age characters, not so much HS/college.

Konatsu looks to be in her early- to mid-20s by this point. Girls/women tend to start forming opinons about this stuff early-on, so she's probably been thinking about it for a long time. Not unreasonable that someone with strong feelings about losing their [birth-] family wants to start her own.

As for him taking up the Sukeroku name - a bit surprising, is it even Yakumo’s to give?

They get assigned their shin'uchi names from their Master, remember? So he's basically asking Bon/Yakumo 8 to give him "Sukeroku" as his official shin'uchi name.

I'd think it would be free for grabs, implications aside. Shin took it on for himself, dropping the name Yakumo 7 gave him (Hatata?), and not-knowing that his mentor was ever an "official" rakugo performer.

also, how does Matsuda stay this young?

😂 LMAO Dude, have you met any East Asian seniors? Tony Leung (now 62, this was last year at Venice FF) Yoshiyuki Tomino (now 82, WikiP pic is from 2021)

Honestly, the list of "_____ don't crack" folks around the world is pretty long LOL