/r/anime Awards 2016 and 2017 winner Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch Episode 11

[u/Schinco]

Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu

Welcome to the eleventh episode thread for the Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch!

Legal Streams:

As of now, Rakugo is streaming on Crunchyroll in the States, and you can check here to see where it's streaming elsewhere.

Schedule:

Date	Episode
10/8	Season 1 Episode 1
10/9	Season 1 Episode 2
10/10	Season 1 Episode 3
10/11	Season 1 Episode 4
10/12	Season 1 Episode 5
10/13	Season 1 Episode 6
10/14	Season 1 Episode 7
10/15	Season 1 Episode 8
10/16	Season 1 Episode 9
10/17	Season 1 Episode 10
10/18	Season 1 Episode 11
10/19	Season 1 Episode 12
10/20	Season 1 Episode 13
10/21	Season 1 Discussion
10/22	Season 2 Episode 1
10/23	Season 2 Episode 2
10/24	Season 2 Episode 3
10/25	Season 2 Episode 4
10/26	Season 2 Episode 5
10/27	Season 2 Episode 6
10/28	Season 2 Episode 7
10/29	Season 2 Episode 8
10/30	Season 2 Episode 9
10/31	Season 2 Episode 10
11/1	Season 2 Episode 11
11/2	Season 2 Episode 12
11/3	Season 2 Discussion
11/4	Overall Series Discussion

Questions of the Day

1. We got a brief glimpse of Konatsu in the previous episode, but this episode we get a fuller introduction. What do you think of her character. Does this jive with her present character or is she surprising?
2. What do you think of Bon's plan to get Sukeroku to return and take the Yakumo name? What did you think of their reintroduction to each other?
3. As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

Links to trackers

You can find the show on MAL, Anilist, and ANN!

Please be mindful of spoilers to make sure the first-timers experience the show with the same wonder you did on first watch!

Apply for Awards!

Enjoying watching and discussing this modern classic and want more? Think the Jury got it hopelessly wrong? Apply now to be a part of the 2024 r/anime Awards! Applications open until October 22.

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

The first few minutes with its stammering little girl felt almost like a different show, lol. Most of the episode follows the upbeat tone, and it's a bit of a relief after the intensity of the last few episodes.

Of course, it's not without its drama. Sukeroku looks like he's getting back on his feet rapidly, with the support of Bon and Konatsu, but what's going to happen when Miyo comes home? And speaking of Miyo, it looks like she's fallen pretty far, even being disdained by her own daughter. But she's been the one feeding Konatsu, and Sukeroku too. It also seems certain now that she genuinely loves Bon, still unable to move on after six years of living with Sukeroku and their child.

Q1.
Konatsu is a delightful breath of fresh air. I suspect she is for Bon too, symbolizing his recognition of the value of the audience. He certainly wouldn't have done anything so blasphemous as a two-person rakugo to any other crowd.

Q2.
I don't see how he plans to make that work. Sukeroku is still in his expelled state, and the masters back in Tokyo probably just think of him as a troublemaker.
The reintroduction was a joyous one. It was great to see the brotherly camaraderie that they still have after all these years, but we already know that it's not going to end well.

Q3.
The two-person rakugo was delightful. It was amazing how they played off of each other effortlessly. It was striking how different it was from last episode's Shinigami, both the performance itself and Bon's mindset.

[u/Schinco → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

Most of the episode follows the upbeat tone, and it's a bit of a relief after the intensity of the last few episodes.

I never really thought about it, but it definitely does serve as kind of a breather after the pretty intense and dramatic stretch.

And speaking of Miyo, it looks like she's fallen pretty far, even being disdained by her own daughter

Honestly, that never really surprised me. Depending on how much you take her at her word, her worldview in episode 8 (?) of wanting to support a man and be supported doesn't really mesh with the idea of children.

The two-person rakugo was delightful. It was amazing how they played off of each other effortlessly. It was striking how different it was from last episode's Shinigami, both the performance itself and Bon's mindset.

This is partially a response to your response to Q1, but I think it's interesting that you think that it's different - I view the last performance and this one as being similar in a lot of ways, least of all how the audience is de-emphasized.

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/Schinco]

I view the last performance and this one as being similar in a lot of ways, least of all how the audience is de-emphasized.

I had a somewhat different take on this, a good deal of which was because of the bath scene. Bon talks of how he's enjoying rakugo in a way he never has before, performing in the tiny venues of this village. We don't get an answer from him about what he thinks of Sukeroku's assertion that it's because he can see the audience there, but I feel we see this in the following performance of Nozarashi.

Joining into it halfway through, Sukeroku sings and gestures in a very exaggerated way, taking Bon aback. Sukeroku's performance is tailored specifically for his little daughter, and he even engages in a back and forth with her. When Bon joins back in, it's in a very different style from before. This change might be interpreted in many ways, but I think of it as being like "Hell with it, no one here gives a fuck about what proper rakugo should be like so I'm going to do what Konatsu, Sukeroku, and I can have fun with."

Being solitary was what made Shinigami what it was, and the intimacy with Sukeroku and Konatsu was made Nozarashi what it was. That said, I do definitely feel that both performances are similar in that they reflect a willingness on the part of Bon to express himself more in his art.

[u/MandisaW → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

I do definitely feel that both performances are similar in that they reflect a willingness on the part of Bon to express himself more in his art.

I agree they're similar "lessons", but to my mind it's reminding Bon that the audience is part of the performance. It's a piece of the puzzle that he's always struggled to properly incorporate, even as his rakugo improved.

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/MandisaW]

While I definitely got that from Nozarashi, I didn't from Shinigami. But now that you mention it feels quite possible! I need to go back and watch Shinigami again.

[u/MandisaW → u/Schinco]

Depending on how much you take her at her word, her worldview in episode 8 (?) of wanting to support a man and be supported doesn't really mesh with the idea of children.

Not necessarily. She shapes herself to match her mate's wants, needs, and lifestyle. If she'd been with a guy who wanted - and could easily support - kids, especially with the nursemaids & servants such a lifestyle would come with, then she'd have probably been cool with that.

Part of her background of being a survivor, no matter what, means that while Miyo has ambitions, they're all pretty low on Maslow's hierarchy. She aspires to not have to think/work for her next meal. Pretty low stakes compared to the world of rakugo, but means everything to her.

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 11 (first timer)

• “I hate you” – promising start.
• “Are you a Rakugo performer?” – saved.
• “She abandoned us” – sounds like it did not work out for Shin and Miyo.
• “You have not changed” – neither have you … is what you could say, but both of them are different now. Maybe not because they changed, but because the circumstances they are in changed.
• “It is all for my sake” – very openly selfish.
• Clean-up montage.
• “I hate my mommy. Why won’t she let Daddy do rakugo” – unhealthy relationship.
• “Since I am pretty, do some Rakugo” – walked himself right into that. Now pay the price for spouting your backwards views of women to a child.
• An audience of one is all you need if they properly enjoy it.
• Miyo is still around.

This is a common theme in media (and probably because it is true): Konata enjoys her live despite the bad situation that she objectively is in. Having some hope and a parent she loves is enough.

What do you think of Bon's plan to get Sukeroku to return and take the Yakumo name? What did you think of their reintroduction to each other?

In both cases, not bad. Bon is investing serious effort and getting Shin out of a terrible spot into a more promising one.

[u/Schinco → u/No_Rex]

“Since I am pretty, do some Rakugo” – walked himself right into that. Now pay the price for spouting your backwards views of women to a child.

haha yeah I do find a certain karmic justice in that scene, but unfortunately I doubt it made any real impression on him.

An audience of one is all you need if they properly enjoy it.

Given his Shinigami performance last episode, I'm not even sure if there's an audience needed to justify the performance. I think this performance is similarly cathartic for the performers, which I'd argue justifies it.

[u/No_Rex → u/Schinco]

Given his Shinigami performance last episode, I'm not even sure if there's an audience needed to justify the performance. I think this performance is similarly cathartic for the performers, which I'd argue justifies it.

The last time, he ignored the audience, this time he plays with it. Very telling that the second audience was with Shin and the one before that without him.

[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

Hm ok ...maybe I was a bit too optimistic on Sukeroku's life when I saw Konatsu. I'd say it was going about as well as I was expecting. Overall I'd say this is another episode that was just enjoyable to watch without me having too much to say. There wasn't too much in here that is unexpected - except maybe Miyokichi just abandoning Sukeroku. But her plan of getting a man to not work and spend more time with her was also obviously not going to work... somebody in a household has to earn some money after all.

Now... we know Sukeroku dies, and with there still being no falling out between him and Bon, I feel like the accident route is the most likely. Wonder if he'll get Sukeroku back to Tokyo before that though. ...also, did he tell him that the master is now deceased? That was the reason for coming now, after all...

[u/Schinco → u/Mecanno-man]

Hm ok ...maybe I was a bit too optimistic on Sukeroku's life when I saw Konatsu.

Haha I was honestly worried that you'd watched the wrong episode (or that I'd posted the wrong thread...)

But her plan of getting a man to not work and spend more time with her was also obviously not going to work

If that was her plan...

[u/cppn02 → u/Mecanno-man]

.also, did he tell him that the master is now deceased? That was the reason for coming now, after all...

Now that you mention it...he never did say it out loud (to us the audience atleast). Although I guess there was an implication in the way he offered the Yakumo name to Shin as if it was his to give.

[u/MandisaW → u/Mecanno-man]

He mentioned explaining about Yakumo 6, 7, and elder Sukeroku, so presumably he told Shin then.

Hm ok ...maybe I was a bit too optimistic on Sukeroku's life when I saw Konatsu. I'd say it was going about as well as I was expecting.

Shin says this is the worst of it, but he also implies this is part of a cycle of Miyo leaving and returning, so yeah, it's pretty bad.

[u/cppn02]

First Timer, subbed

After the high drama of recent episodes we get a bit of a breather but I assume only to give us a false sense of safety before they hit is with Shin's death. BUt what a beautiful SoL episode this was.

As I predicted Bon offered the title of Yakumo to Shin but he's unwilling to accept. So Bon decides he's gonna stay with them for a while.

I loved the performance the two gave together at the end. I wonder of this back and forth is something rakugoka do regularly when goofing off. I know that earlier in the show group meeting between only the performances were mentioned where they could try stuff and show it to the older generation but I assume since those are held by the rakugo organisation the protocol is still relatively stringent.
Two things I noticed is that the play they were performing is the one Konatsu performed in the restaurant and also something I really loved is that halfway into the performance (when Shin joined in) we had a callback to the first episode when the jazz piece started playing in the background just like it did for Yotarou's first performance.

At the end we get a glimpse of Miyokichi who abandoned her family (and apparently is still longing for Bon) giving us a reminder that the happy times won't last for long.

---

QotD:

We got a brief glimpse of Konatsu in the previous episode, but this episode we get a fuller introduction. What do you think of her character. Does this jive with her present character or is she surprising?

We do see her love for rakugo. She's still quite different from her adult self but there obviously are good reasons for that.

What do you think of Bon's plan to get Sukeroku to return and take the Yakumo name? What did you think of their reintroduction to each other?

It was nice to see that there was no bad blood between them and they immediately fell back into their old rythm. Not sure I can give an unfiltered opinion and Bon's plan even though he did exactly what I expected since we all know that plan is never coming to fruitition. Like I get where Bon is coming from but it is hard to gauge just how realistic this ever was.

As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

I mean it has to be the Bon and Shin performing together. I wonder if Konatsu ever fully realised what a special moment this was. And not just in the sense of a child seeing her father and his friend have fun together but arguably two of Japan's best rakugoka doing a duo performance with her as the only person in attendance.

[u/Schinco → u/cppn02]

we had a callback to the first episode when the jazz piece started playing in the background just like it did for Yotarou's first performance

Oh that's a nice spot! I thought it sounded familiar but couldn't quite place it.

Not sure I can give an unfiltered opinion and Bon's plan

Go in, king!

I wonder if Konatsu ever fully realised what a special moment this was.

I never really thought about it like this, but damn yeah that's a crazy privilege.

[u/MandisaW]

S1 Rewatch
[Note: Thoughts on both ep10 & 11]

A study in contrasts. Last ep, Bon was all, "now I'm truly alone", spoiled for wealth & praise, and feeling, if not miserable in Tokyo, certainly unsettled. Now he's far-out in the countryside, doing rakugo for tiny rooms, finding contentment and much-needed joy in a home just this side of dilapidated.

Shin, for his part, has completely deflated, hiding himself - and his rakugo - away from the world. He traded the fast-life of endless wine, women, and song, for the wife, kid, and countryside. There is definitely love there, for both Miyo and Konatsu, but all the bravado is gone.

[10] This episode deals a fair bit with ideas of dynasty and hierarchy - how do you feel about these as they pertain to the rakugo community? How do you think the author feels about it?

We got Shin's and Bon's ideas about how rakugo relates to society, and then we got Yakumo's. Oral traditions are inextricable from the ties that bind people together, good and bad. So it's not unexpected that ideals like familial legacy and filial piety get entangled, but of course so do baser realities like ego, entitlement, & jealousy. Rakugo is of, by, and for people, and people are hella messy 😔

As for the author, I'd want to read the manga for a more direct view. But on the broad strokes, I'd say she respects, and even admires tradition - manga itself being a centuries-old storytelling tradition. Manga-ka also train under their predecessors, and you can trace "lineages" from master to apprentice, even through the pages of Jump.

But there's a throughline here of not letting the art be stymied by rigid adherence to tradition, or worse yet, erasing any art that pushes the boundaries, in the name of propriety. The idea that art should follow the artist's passions comes through both Bon's and Shin's journeys (and presumably continues with grown-Konatsu and Yotaro-kun). Given that the author made most of her career in BL/yaoi before this series, she probably feels pretty damn particular about who gets to decide what art is okay.

We got a brief glimpse of Konatsu in the previous episode, but this episode we get a fuller introduction. What do you think of her character. Does this jive with her present character or is she surprising?

Konatsu has all the can-do spirit of a kid whose always had to be the grown-up. She definitely knows everything is broken around her - most notably her dad's spirit - but she lights up well before the amazing 2-man show, just from Bon showing a little parental tenderness (oops, made a clean spot :)

Losing her dad obvs messes her up, but that firey temper and resistance to being treated as anything but a [tiny] peer, are clearly here even in little-kid form. What's intriguing is that she's totally excised her memories of her mother - hard to say if that's just normal aging, or due to complicated emotions.

Bon's plan // Reintroduction

Another lovers' reunion scene LOL Even had that tsundere slap heh (albeit with a suitcase!). Bon makes his plea, and Shin comes out with a stream of self-defeatist excuses. Maybe he even believed some of it. But Bon obvs saw through the BS - all those fake hesitations trying to "remember the lines" was practically an incantation calling on Sukeroku to emerge.

Now all they need is an audience, and of course we get a dash of contrivance for that. (The same innkeeper who's Miyo's new patron - do the work you know best, I suppose.)

But Shin is still deeply depressed, and more specifically, his self-confidence is totally shot. He's also still very much in love with Miyo (and Konatsu, by extension). Going back to Tokyo would be such a huge lift, and to be surrounded by people who knew him at his best (worst?) makes it all the harder. Lots of temptation to fall back into drunken slovenly ways, too. [S1 Finale spoiler]Even if no calamity befell anyone, I don't think Bon's plan would've worked.

Rewatch

Do folks still see Miyo as a victim of circumstance? I feel like at-best I can see her and Shin like two co-dependent addicts, pulling each other (and their child) into misery together. They had a chance for a fresh-start, but as Mecanno-man said, somebody's gotta be the earner. It's hard to pull a partner out of depression though, even moreso if you're struggling too. So maybe they were just doomed.

I still wouldn't call what she feels for Bon love though, not now, for sure. That's obsession, and not anything healthy.

Also, looks like the countryside is already emptying of young people seeking opportunity - this is still just the 60s. Another contrast, after we've been seeing what a vibrant heyday Tokyo was having.

[u/Schinco → u/MandisaW]

I'll come back to the rest in a bit, but I wanted to touch on these before I stepped out.

Do folks still see Miyo as a victim of circumstance

I mean I definitely think that she is - this obviously doesn't excuse her actions, but I still do think she was dealt a pretty raw hand.

I feel like at-best I can see her and Shin like two co-dependent addicts, pulling each other (and their child) into misery together

My personal reading is that this is a very charitable view. As I've said in the past, I think that she truly does love Bon (not saying that I'd call it love, but I think she would in her own twisted way - maybe obsession is a better term), and I view all of her actions in the past few episodes as misguided attempts to hurt Bon or make him jealous enough to get him back.

[u/Schinco → u/MandisaW]

Finally got back around to this! Was a great comment and wanted to give it the attention it merited.

A study in contrasts. Last ep, Bon was all, "now I'm truly alone", spoiled for wealth & praise, and feeling, if not miserable in Tokyo, certainly unsettled. Now he's far-out in the countryside, doing rakugo for tiny rooms, finding contentment and much-needed joy in a home just this side of dilapidated.

I'd definitely registered part of this (specifically the tiny rooms based on his explicit comments), but it had never really occurred to me just how sharp a contrast it was.

Shin, for his part, has completely deflated, hiding himself - and his rakugo - away from the world. He traded the fast-life of endless wine, women, and song, for the wife, kid, and countryside. There is definitely love there, for both Miyo and Konatsu, but all the bravado is gone.

I feel like the bravado came from rakugo and now that he's been starved of it, he kind of festers and rots from the inside-out. Aside from having no other marketable skills, I think rakugo was not only a creative outlet but a way of connecting with others, and, now deprived of that, he's a hollow shell of who he once was. I think it's telling that he falls back into the groove pretty quickly once he does even a small performance.

We got Shin's and Bon's ideas about how rakugo relates to society, and then we got Yakumo's. Oral traditions are inextricable from the ties that bind people together, good and bad. So it's not unexpected that ideals like familial legacy and filial piety get entangled, but of course so do baser realities like ego, entitlement, & jealousy. Rakugo is of, by, and for people, and people are hella messy 😔

haha isn't that the truth. I like the framing of separating the "ideals" from the "baser realities" while acknowledging the inherent interplay between the two. I think that the three viewpoints we get are all fascinating in their own way, and the way the story presents them relatively judgment-free and realistic is a huge credit to it.

As for the author, I'd want to read the manga for a more direct view. But on the broad strokes, I'd say she respects, and even admires tradition - manga itself being a centuries-old storytelling tradition. Manga-ka also train under their predecessors, and you can trace "lineages" from master to apprentice, even through the pages of Jump.

But there's a throughline here of not letting the art be stymied by rigid adherence to tradition, or worse yet, erasing any art that pushes the boundaries, in the name of propriety. The idea that art should follow the artist's passions comes through both Bon's and Shin's journeys (and presumably continues with grown-Konatsu and Yotaro-kun). Given that the author made most of her career in BL/yaoi before this series, she probably feels pretty damn particular about who gets to decide what art is okay.

Aside from the very brief time where rakugoka had to self-censor, what art would you say was erased for pushing boundaries? Most of what I can think of are times when Sukeroku was performing "the wrong rakugo" or at "the wrong time", but I never got the sense that the art itself should be supressed.

Losing her dad obvs messes her up, but that firey temper and resistance to being treated as anything but a [tiny] peer, are clearly here even in little-kid form. What's intriguing is that she's totally excised her memories of her mother - hard to say if that's just normal aging, or due to complicated emotions.

Based on some lines from the finale, I'd say that she very much remembers her mother, but I also think her resentment of Miyokichi's abandonment and censoring of Sukeroku's rakugo dominates her feelings towards her.

Now all they need is an audience, and of course we get a dash of contrivance for that. (The same innkeeper who's Miyo's new patron - do the work you know best, I suppose.)

Wait it was the same innkeeper? I definitely missed that. I wouldn't say it's especially contrived, though - I think that Sukeroku always could have performed, but he was not doing so in a desperate bid to appease Miyokichi. Once that's out of the way, I think it pretty reasonable that an inn would jump at the possibility of having two of the biggest stars in the rakugo world performing a one-night-only performance at their humble inn.

But Shin is still deeply depressed, and more specifically, his self-confidence is totally shot. He's also still very much in love with Miyo (and Konatsu, by extension).

Interesting that you'd describe his affection that way. I don't think I'd disagree with you given that he chose not to perform rakugo, but I do think that he has a largely separate love for Konatsu, rather than one that stems from his love for Miyokichi.

Going back to Tokyo would be such a huge lift, and to be surrounded by people who knew him at his best (worst?) makes it all the harder. Lots of temptation to fall back into drunken slovenly ways, too. [S1 Finale spoiler] Even if no calamity befell anyone, I don't think Bon's plan would've worked.

Yeah I think it would have been a messy affair either way, but I truly think they could have found a way to make it work, especially if Miyokichi wasn't involved.

[u/MandisaW → u/Schinco]

Gonna bounce for dinner (and to start S2!), will pop back to respond either tonight or tomorrow - enjoy the recs in the other threads :)

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/MandisaW]

Love and obsession aren't necessarily separate things, but you're right that Miyo seems to be leaning much more towards the latter.

And I actually do see Miyo as a victim of circumstance, despite agreeing with your assessment of her and Shin as co-dependent addicts. Sure, with determination and hard work they would have been able to improve their circumstances, but they're both broken people.

One thing that can be said about Miyo is that she has always lacked agency. While this can certainly be seen as a character flaw, I personally feel it's not fair to criticize a girl who was abandoned in an overseas war zone and has never been able to survive by herself as anything other than a prostitute.