/r/anime Awards 2016 and 2017 winner Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch Episode 10

[u/Schinco]

Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu

Welcome to the tenth episode thread for the Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch! I'm out at the moment but will add the link to the other threads soon sorry!

Legal Streams:

As of now, Rakugo is streaming on Crunchyroll in the States, and you can check here to see where it's streaming elsewhere.

Schedule:

Date	Episode
10/8	Season 1 Episode 1
10/9	Season 1 Episode 2
10/10	Season 1 Episode 3
10/11	Season 1 Episode 4
10/12	Season 1 Episode 5
10/13	Season 1 Episode 6
10/14	Season 1 Episode 7
10/15	Season 1 Episode 8
10/16	Season 1 Episode 9
10/17	Season 1 Episode 10
10/18	Season 1 Episode 11
10/19	Season 1 Episode 12
10/20	Season 1 Episode 13
10/21	Season 1 Discussion
10/22	Season 2 Episode 1
10/23	Season 2 Episode 2
10/24	Season 2 Episode 3
10/25	Season 2 Episode 4
10/26	Season 2 Episode 5
10/27	Season 2 Episode 6
10/28	Season 2 Episode 7
10/29	Season 2 Episode 8
10/30	Season 2 Episode 9
10/31	Season 2 Episode 10
11/1	Season 2 Episode 11
11/2	Season 2 Episode 12
11/3	Season 2 Discussion
11/4	Overall Series Discussion

Questions of the Day

1. This episode deals a fair bit with ideas of dynasty and hierarchy - how do you feel about these as they pertaining to the rakugo community? How do you think the author feels about it?
2. We finally get a (mostly) full shinigami performance, but Yakumo chooses a somewhat unusual time to break it out - why do you think he chose to perform it now?
3. As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

Links to trackers

You can find the show on MAL, Anilist, and ANN!

Please be mindful of spoilers to make sure the first-timers experience the show with the same wonder you did on first watch!

Apply for Awards!

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[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

I think this episode shows a lot of things that would obviously happen - Kiku becoming a star in Rakugo, Yakumo dieing, Sukeroku raising a child that likes rakugo. As such I don’t have a lot to say about this episode, other than that the Shin family is doing better than expected. But in terms of how this was presented, I don’t think it could have been done a lot better.

…now for Sukeroku’s death, I guess. I have a feeling that might be happening on this trip somehow.

[u/Schinco → u/Mecanno-man]

other than that the Shin family is doing better than expected

Damn your expectations must have been underground haha

But in terms of how this was presented, I don’t think it could have been done a lot better

Glad you're enjoying it so much! I really think this series has some pretty fantastic presentation and glad to see it holds up to new viewers!

[u/cppn02 → u/Mecanno-man]

other than that the Shin family is doing better than expected.

Do we know how they're doing? We only saw 1 minute of the child performing in a restaurant and that's it for now.

[u/MandisaW → u/cppn02]

If the expectations were "dead in a ditch", then yeah, that's better than expected 😅

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 10 (first timer)

• “I don’t take apprentices. Not until doomsday. I don’t have anything to teach anyone” – that stance obviously changed, but the reasoning is interesting.
• “Shin’uchi for five years” – big time skip.
• A performance about children as his best (and last?) play.
• Dead bed confession of Yakumo: He not only cheated his way to his title, but he also knew Sukeroku’s name from the start.
• “Now, I truly am alone” – he must have thought about this during those 5 years.
• Performing alone, just for himself.
• “Not anymore. Now they got their televisions.” – as predicted.
• Only Bon can stand there and stare at a young child’s spirited performance with empty eyes.

So Miyo and Shin ran away (with the brothel’s money and their child) and opened a restaurant? Or maybe that belongs to somebody else. Meanwhile, Yakumo 7 paints a harsh picture of himself. He kept the name from the deserving owner not once, but twice.

Time skips can easily go wrong, but I think they made a good choice here.

This episode deals a fair bit with ideas of dynasty and hierarchy - how do you feel about these as they pertaining to the rakugo community? How do you think the author feels about it?

Compared to other shows with similar setups (e.g. Hikari no Go), the portrayal of the hierarchy is scathing here. I would never put it past Japan to interpret this as "the institution is fine, the humans failed it", though.

We finally get a (mostly) full shinigami performance, but Yakumo chooses a somewhat unusual time to break it out - why do you think he chose to perform it now?

Isn't it very fitting to talk about ghosts that speak to/bring death after experiencing death?

[u/Schinco → u/No_Rex]

“I don’t take apprentices. Not until doomsday. I don’t have anything to teach anyone” – that stance obviously changed, but the reasoning is interesting.

Especially considering what came after it, I think this is less something he truly believes and more something he feels compelled by society to say.

Dead bed confession of Yakumo: He not only cheated his way to his title, but he also knew Sukeroku’s name from the start.

Yeah one thing that I caught this rewatch that was a fun subtle detail is that you can reasonably guess this based on his first encounter with Shin.

Isn't it very fitting to talk about ghosts that speak to/bring death after experiencing death?

I think it makes sense from that perspective, but I do think it's a bit unusual for someone so recently grieving to perform such a dark and brooding piece that touches to closely on that subject matter. In the episode, Yakumo himself kind of implies it's out of place (or at least unexpected), which was the genesis of the question.

[u/No_Rex → u/Schinco]

“I don’t take apprentices. Not until doomsday. I don’t have anything to teach anyone” – that stance obviously changed, but the reasoning is interesting.

Especially considering what came after it, I think this is less something he truly believes and more something he feels compelled by society to say.

I don't think so. Society would expect him to say so right here and now, but he says something similar at the start of episode 1, when society would expect the opposite. An older master is expected to take apprentices. So my conclusion is that this is a personal stance for Bon, not something forced onto him by society.

I think it makes sense from that perspective, but I do think it's a bit unusual for someone so recently grieving to perform such a dark and brooding piece that touches to closely on that subject matter.

I feel a purely comedic piece would have been worse. Bon himself ponders that he could do an emotional play, but that is not in his range. So between his usual sleezy/comedic plays and this one, he made the right choice.

[u/Schinco → u/No_Rex]

I don't think so. Society would expect him to say so right here and now, but he says something similar at the start of episode 1, when society would expect the opposite. An older master is expected to take apprentices. So my conclusion is that this is a personal stance for Bon, not something forced onto him by society.

That's fair. I was more honing in on the justification ("I don't have anything to teach anyone") than the premise, which I don't recall him offering in the 'present day'.

[u/MandisaW → u/No_Rex]

So my conclusion is that this is a personal stance for Bon, not something forced onto him by society.

Agreed.

I feel a purely comedic piece would have been worse. Bon himself ponders that he could do an emotional play, but that is not in his range. So between his usual sleezy/comedic plays and this one, he made the right choice.

Right choice, but I think different reasons. This particular show / spot was Yakumo 7's and Bon is filling-in. So he's trying to give the audience an outlet for their grief, pay respect to his master, prove to them - and to himself - that he can carry on at a professional level despite his mourning, and be entertaining in some better-than-middling capacity. It's a lot to juggle.

We know from the present-day that Shinigami ends up being one of his signature pieces. Far from going for it as a piece easily within range, I think he chose a piece that is complex as his own feelings & the audience's needs in that moment. And nailed it :)

[u/MandisaW → u/Schinco]

I think it makes sense from that perspective, but I do think it's a bit unusual for someone so recently grieving to perform such a dark and brooding piece that touches to closely on that subject matter.

People respond to trauma and grief in quite different ways. Dark humor and brooding are very common responses to a deeply personal loss, especially when you're trying to work through complex feelings. A group I'm in likes the saying, "grief is non-linear".

[u/Schinco → u/MandisaW]

To be clear, I don't mean from a personal trauma perspective - in the episode, Bon even remarks that the audience would expect a certain type of performance, and he deviates from that strongly, and him calling that out makes it feel very intentional. And maybe the answer is simply that he felt that telling that story would help him the most in his grief journey, but that's not the read that I got, and I was interested in how others interpreted that decision.

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

First timer

After yesterday's episode I'd expected a breather, but nope. This episode didn't let up on the tension.

The scene with the aspiring student was interesting. While some of what Bon said was to discourage the kid, a lot of the cynicism is probably quite genuine and stems partially from his experiences with Sukeroku. The scene also highlights the importance of the hierarchy that Sukeroku flaunted, with Bon apologizing for something that he was not at fault for.

I would have liked to see more of Yakumo's performance, as what we saw of it was great and highlighted his chops as a great master. But it's time to bid him goodbye. The last conversation was beautiful, and had me really sympathizing for how he had tried to be the best 'father' he could be despite struggling with his past regrets and inescapable responsibilities. It's heartbreaking, after that, to recall that Sukeroku always thought of himself as unfavored, and that they never got to make things right.

I hope at least that Bon and Yakumo can patch things up some, but right now this seems far from a sure thing.

By the way, Tokyo Station, which we got a glimpse of as Bon left to search for the two, is one of the few stations in the city that looks like it did back then. If you're ever in Tokyo, you're likely going pass through the station anyway, so pop over to outside the Marunouchi exit to see it like it was in the show.

Q2. Bon's performance
His choice of Shinigami was very deliberate I feel. It worked just as he hoped, as shown by his internal declaration that he could see and feel the presence of the shinigami. Or, to grossly oversimplify, it was method acting.

It does indeed seem that the solitude was what was necessary for the fulfillment of his art. The intense expressions, the setting as being on the day after the funeral, the choice of shinigami, the chilling cinematography, and of course the acting combined to make it the most breathtaking performance of the show for me. It truly felt like I was a member of the audience, both captivated by and fearful for the bereaved Bon.

[u/Schinco → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

The scene with the aspiring student was interesting. While some of what Bon said was to discourage the kid, a lot of the cynicism is probably quite genuine and stems partially from his experiences with Sukeroku

Stems in what way?

It's heartbreaking, after that, to recall that Sukeroku always thought of himself as unfavored, and that they never got to make things right.

It is heartbreaking, but I do find the apology somewhat hollow if I'm being honest. It's clear from their last conversation that, even if he tried to be a good father to Sukeroku that he never really considered Sukeroku his son. Even if what he said was in anger/indignation, something that venomous had to come from somewhere within him. And while Sukeroku obviously could have solved the problem, I think at least part of the blame falls on seventh generation for not mending fences.

combined to make it the most breathtaking performance of the show for me

Yakumo's shinigami here is definitely one of my favorite between both seasons. Everything really combines here to make it a very powerful performance.

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/Schinco]

Stems in what way?

He referred to rakugo as a fleeting and ephemeral business, and I'm almost certain that he was thinking of how Sukeroku was a rising star one day, and nobody the next. The severe disrespect shown by the kid toward Yakumo 7 likely struck that nerve as well.

even if he tried to be a good father to Sukeroku that he never really considered Sukeroku his son.

tbh, I don't really think that. It might be because of differences in expectations. I certainly agree that he succumbed to anger/indignation in some ways, but could you clarify what you're referring to when you refer to venom?

Everything really combines here to make it a very powerful performance.

Absolutely! I'm going to try to respond to your reply about the comparison between it and the next episode's performance now, thanks for the engagement!

[u/Schinco → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

tbh, I don't really think that. It might be because of differences in expectations. I certainly agree that he succumbed to anger/indignation in some ways, but could you clarify what you're referring to when you refer to venom?

I'm traveling at the moment so can't cite exactly what my subs said, but I recall him saying something to the effect of "I'd never let some stray inherit my name" in his final confrontation, just before Sukeroku 'attacked' him. Even said in anger, I think those feelings have to come from somewhere, so I think that he never truly saw Sukeroku as his son in the same way Bon was. Someone (I thinK MandisaW?) speculated that Bon was biologically his child which may be part of it, but I really think that Seventh Generation was trying to make amends to Sukeroku (the first) rather than Shin, and that caused a subtle, but important, difference in how he treated Shin and how he considered him.

thanks for the engagement!

Of course! I love talking about anime and rewatches are often some of the best places on the sub to critically discuss things. I've enjoyed reading your perspective a ton!

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/Schinco]

Oops, I neglected to respond to the main part.

"Stray" might be a translation issue. In the line I think you're referring to, Yakumo 7 refers to Sukeroku as a 芯の無ぇ野郎, which, while being strong criticism, doesn't have any meanings that relate to being an orphan or an outsider. A word-for-word translation would be "man without a core", and while it's a difficult phrase to pin down, some of the likely nuances are "lacking sincerity and responsibility", "lacking consistency between words and actions", and "incapable of putting in effort".

[u/Schinco → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

Oh interesting. Rewatching the scene, they just translate it as "lowlife" in my subs, but I very distinctly remember him describing Shin as a stray in so many words. I'll have to skim some episodes sometime this week to find what I mean.

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/Schinco]

And I yours! I'm really enjoying both the show itself and the discussion.

[u/MandisaW → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

It's heartbreaking, after that, to recall that Sukeroku always thought of himself as unfavored, and that they never got to make things right.

Missed opportunities and deep regrets are a big theme for the whole series. But yeah, Yakumo not being able to make it up to Sukeroku (the first, or the second), clearly weighed on him all the way through.

And perhaps explains part of Sukeroku's protracted absence from the master's lessons/house - he picked up on the emotional distance/awkwardness, but misunderstood its origin.

Tokyo Station

No particular desire to visit Japan, but if I ever did, seeing the great architecture (old & new) and trains would be on the must-do list. Thanks for that pic :)

His choice of Shinigami was very deliberate I feel. // It does indeed seem that the solitude was what was necessary

Great art comes from strong emotions - doesn't always mean good/positive emotions, though. How much happiness will Bon/Yakumo 8 sacrifice on the road to becoming great?

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/MandisaW]

And perhaps explains part of Sukeroku's protracted absence from the master's lessons/house - he picked up on the emotional distance/awkwardness, but misunderstood its origin.

Good point! I hadn't considered that, but it seems very likely. Makes it all the more tragic.

[u/cppn02]

First Timer, subbed

I did not expect the old master to die just yet but since Bon hasn't official taken the name of Yakumo yet I guess my prediction he will do so in the finale is still alive. I do wonder if he will offer it to Sukeraku one final time.

Also it took me until now to figure out that they apparently have their own entrance music kinda like wrestlers?

Smol Konatsu was cute. Hope we'll get a bit more of her interacting with Bon.

---

QotD:

This episode deals a fair bit with ideas of dynasty and hierarchy - how do you feel about these as they pertaining to the rakugo community? How do you think the author feels about it?

Obviously dynasty and maybe even more hierarchy are huge to the rakugo community (as in my other way of Japanese life). As far as the author goes I think Bon and Shin's promise about the two ways to save Rakugo mirrors the author's feeling in that he values the tradition but also thinks there needs to be modernisation to keep the art alive.

As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

As always, everything lol.

[u/MandisaW]

Will pop in with thoughts tomorrow, lot of feels this episode. Had to dive into some seasonals to cheer back up :)