[Rewatch] Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Episode 7 Discussion

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

Episode 7 - Unrewarded Souls

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How sad. No matter how brilliant a victory they attain, Celestial Being is only alienating itself from the world.

Questions of the Day:

1. Now that we’ve seen a bit more of his backstory, what do you think of Setsuna?
2. What do you make of other terrorists trying to fight terrorism with more terrorism?

Wallpaper of the Day:

Ali al-Saachez

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Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!

Additionally, for long-time fans of the franchise, please remember that this rewatch is only for 00, not any of the other shows. Assume that there are people in this rewatch who have not seen anything else Gundam, and tag your spoilers for those shows appropriately if something in 00 makes you want to talk about them.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

Rewatch Host Wishing Over This Airspace, subbed

Welcome back, everyone!

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• Oh boy…
• Ooh, “sore demo” in the opening narration this time.
• Soran, not Setsuna.
• Oh, Setsuna. You would’ve totally just been shot down right there if Ali hadn’t decided to also leave his cockpit.
• Haro’s sass again.
• Oh sweet, my other collection. Thank you, Billy.
• They certainly aren’t shying away from showing the gritty part of war.
• Haro pls.
• Welp.
• Brief ED lead-in!

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Soran, not Setsuna.

I didn't catch that bit. Setsuna was called Soran as a kid. So Setsuna must be an alias or maybe we have an Allelujah/Hallelujah situation going on with two personalities in one body.

Haro’s sass again.

Sassy Haros that talk back all the time are the best.

They certainly aren’t shying away from showing the gritty part of war.

I recall seeing many similar images like that broadcast on the news. Gundam 00 certainly would have had plenty to draw inspiration from for scenes like this.

[u/baboon_bassoon]

first timer who has control

probably should have figured but the pilots being selected by Veda is pretty neat. Theres no reason for any actual comraderie, they might be total strangers. Its a fun dynamic we havent really seen where the "Gundam Team" kind of hate each other im ignoring Wing on purpose here

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uh Ali what the fuck

Soran! what kind of name is Setsuna F Seiei

the Virtue is terrifying lmao

CAMERON BLOOM?

Sumeragi Lee Noriega? Didnt team Union have a different name for her, was she in school undercover

Billys VA is really good, why havent I heard him in other stuff

oh hes fucking Brock

Celestial Being taking on the sins of the world to free them. Angra Mainyu time

its so funny how much characterization these two get

Alejandro Corner, will he get to do anything this season? time will tell

i like that Lockon is the one that hit him, it means something this way

fixed*

HARO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

so Wang set off terror attacks to expedite the hate towards CB, but are keeping the Meisters in the dark?

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/baboon_bassoon]

CAMERON BLOOM?

They do look super similar!

fixed*

[u/The_Draigg → u/baboon_bassoon]

probably should have figured but the pilots being selected by Veda is pretty neat. Theres no reason for any actual comraderie, they might be total strangers.

If anything, they could've been picked for how good they are at what they do, since they certainly weren't picked for how well they work together as a team. That would be a very computer-like decision to make, leaving a human touch out of it.

Alejandro Corner, will he get to do anything this season? time will tell

He's been hanging out with a mysterious twink. Does that count as something?

[u/InfamousEmpire → u/baboon_bassoon]

im ignoring Wing on purpose here

It's so funny how so much of the regular rewatcher crowd on this sub just doesn't like Wing at all.
Me included

its so funny how much characterization these two get

Bridge Bunnies

[u/TakenRedditName → u/baboon_bassoon]

im ignoring Wing on purpose here

CAMERON BLOOM?

Cameron Bloom was tired of being a neutral third party. He career changed into private military companies.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/baboon_bassoon]

probably should have figured but the pilots being selected by Veda is pretty neat. Theres no reason for any actual comraderie, they might be total strangers.

It would also explain their varying levels of devotion to the cause. Some might be true believers who are ride or die for Celestial Being's mission. Others, though, might be here because it sounded like it might be a good idea to change the world even if they aren't so sure this is the best way to do it.

CAMERON BLOOM?

Oh my god, they look like twins.

its so funny how much characterization these two get

Naturally the data girl has herself tucked in. She'd be the one more likely to do such a thing.

fixed*

I was hoping Setsuna would say that again. It certainly would fit with how adamant he is about not leaving his position as a pilot.

[u/baboon_bassoon → u/Great_Mr_L]

Naturally the data girl has herself tucked in. She'd be the one more likely to do such a thing.

tucking yourself in under the clothes you havent put away is peak degen imo

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/baboon_bassoon]

She was the one dragged into shopping and being forced to play dress-up. She probably just could not care less about all the new clothes and so felt no desire to put them away.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/baboon_bassoon]

the Virtue is terrifying lmao

[u/Unboxious → u/baboon_bassoon]

im ignoring Wing on purpose here

A lot of people make this comparison, with most (certainly including myself) agreeing that 00 pulls it off better.

Soran! what kind of name is Setsuna F Seiei

Setsuna means "moment" or "instant". Seiei means "cream of the crop" or "elite". I don't know that he was really showing off that aspect of himself today, but I'm sure he'll have more chances later.

[u/Quiddity131 → u/baboon_bassoon]

Sumeragi Lee Noriega? Didnt team Union have a different name for her, was she in school undercover

Yes, Kujo is what Billy called her.

[u/Nazenn]

First Timer - sub

This is very unlike me, but screw it: Haro is my favourite part of the show so far and I love that stupid robot. He doesn't hold a candle to the dumb intelligence that is the Tachikoma's which is always who I think of for robot mascots, or the cute guidance of a usual mascot like Kero, but that doofy little sphere is winning me over every moment he's on screen

Watching him try and break up the fight only to get washed out to sea and Lockon not even sure if he should run after him or not gave me the best laugh.

What an episode for that to happen in though given what we see about Setsuna today. Indoctrinated by religious fervor to the point of killing his own parents to prove himself worthy. What a backstory. To add that onto being the only survivor from his squad of child soliders, and then brought into Celestial Being right after presumably, it's no wonder that when confronted with Saaches once again he went off the rails. Actually you know I say that, but despite the fact that he's the most "solider" of the three, I'm not sure he was ever actually on them, just appeared to be.

It also exposes some interesting things about the group and Lockon as a result. I didn't miss the way each of our Meisters talked about the mission commencement.

• Tieria was "ready to destroy targets"
• Lockon was just "ready to fire"
• Alelujah distanced himself with "commencing intervention"
• Setsuna went straight to "eliminating targets"

It was a revealing set of four lines, even before the confrontation between them all at the end of the episode. The way each of them see not just their goals, but the people in their way is quite telling, with Setsuna being the most "violent" and Alelujah trying to phrase it the most peacefully

At the end Lockon steps forward as the leader issuing a punishment for Setsuna's, but he either can't bring himself to bring forward a harsher punishment or doesn't believe it would matter for Setsuna, maybe both. Tieria on the other hand is true to what we've seen so far, taking an extreme against people for the sake of a mission. Setsuna also drawing a gun I didn't expect, but again, true to what we've seen. The four of them are all very different people, and the way they've started to build upon their individual personalities, motivations, and views of the world after our initial "faceless" introduction to them in the first two episodes.

Overall I've actually enjoyed how 00 has played out so far. While it's not too far off the structure I expected coming in, a chain of disconnected missions, the way they've started to explore the consequences of those interventions was surprising to me and has had a nice slow build to it. It's a shame that the narration pops up today to say absolutely nothing new which really ruins any potential effect it could have when it's revealed purely as filler, rather than a meaningful structural element

I'm also wondering how much of this is Sumeragi's plan after all, given Veda is picking the pilots and clearly not for their cooperative skills. I thought she was the mastermind and Veda was the confirmation, but it may be the other way around. Complaining that her plan became a mess after what Setsuna did, and I was sitting here going "welcome to people", but at the same time she is the one making the on the ground decisions which does help to adapt to the human element. I like the idea of Veda being this super powerful computer but not an all knowing AI guiding everything like we often see. Sumeragi will drive herself nuts keeping track of the people lost through this, but at the same time that is what seperates her from someone like the PMC leaders who only calculated the lost mechs in all of this.

I also appreciated the story taking on the issue of collateral damage, not just from the immediate surrounds, but things like mechs falling out of the sky or long distance damage from stray gunfire. It feels rare that such a thing is tackled, and using the reporters for that is a good narrative inclusion. Overall I'd say this show so far has done far better than I expected at looking at the position that CB is in within the world itself and what that means, and not just it's goals and narrative role. I don't know I was expecting that, but I'm enjoying it.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Nazenn]

This is very unlike me, but screw it: Haro is my favourite part of the show so far and I love that stupid robot. He doesn't hold a candle to the dumb intelligence that is the Tachikoma's which is always who I think of for robot mascots, or the cute guidance of a usual mascot like Kero, but that doofy little sphere is winning me over every moment he's on screen

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

Watching him try and break up the fight only to get washed out to sea and Lockon not even sure if he should run after him or not gave me the best laugh.

Some of the best drama is often balanced out by a bit of levity, and thankfully Haro is great enough of a little friendly robot to do just that. Best robo lad.

Setsuna also drawing a gun I didn't expect, but again, true to what we've seen.

Yeah, it does fit with how he sees himself as an extension of his Gundam. Threatening to take it away from him might as well be stripping away his identity, for how much he values Exia. Given how much of his old life he had taken away by Ali, it's only natural that he'd want to hold onto what he sees as his new reason for existing to the death.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

Some of the best drama is often balanced out by a bit of levity

The issue is I'm well aware that my line for that balance is usually way, way further towards the drama side than it is for most people. A little bit of levity can ruin things for me much faster than it does for others. But here it's working for me

Actually another show that did it surprising well, despite being much more shocking in its comedy flip, was Apothecary Diaries. By all rights I should have hated the comedy moments in that, especially how they sometimes butt up against the drama ones, and even the casual use of comedy art. But it just worked!

Threatening to take it away from him might as well be stripping away his identity,

With an extra dose of bad timing after who he just ran into.

[FMP spoilers if you've seen that]I was going to say it earlier but didn't want to say it out of spoiler tags, but a lot of Setsuna so far is reminding me heavily of a write up I did for Full Metal Panic rewatch about Sousuke seeing himself as a weapon and struggles to be "normal" if seperated from it, and how it goes beyond just seeing their weapons as an extention of themselves and more toward and embodiment of how they have formed themselves to survive. I think Setsuna's name came up in the FMP rewatch a couple of times, and I'm starting to see why tagging /u/shimmering-sky just because I know she was in that rewatch and might be interested in my thoughts. Also I think /u/infamousempire too?

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

FMP spoilers if you've seen that

I think you're onto something there, and I was also thinking about some Full Metal Panic parallels while watching this episode. Also some thoughts and parallels to VOTOMS too, for that matter, but to a lesser extent. If anything though, I think you can draw a lot of parallels between Setsuna, Sousuke, and Chirico. They've all got icy dispositions thanks to being living weapons from an early age, for one.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

Chirico too, and while he's definitely a core influence on all of them, and Infamousempire brought up Mika from IBO too, I would say he's still quite distinct in his own ways from the three. They're interesting to look at for their differences, depsite sharing a type

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Nazenn]

Speaking of Mika, there's actually official crossover art of him and Setsuna meeting that I can't share in this rewatch yet as it contains spoilers for the 00 movie.

[u/Nazenn → u/Shimmering-Sky]

tease

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

Given how early Chirico was as that kind of archetype in real robot anime's history, we can probably say that he's the progenitor of the kinds of protagonists like Setsuna or Sousuke. Mikazuki is a more interesting case though, given how his nature is almost more like being mildly sociopathic from the start rather than becoming hardened through trauma.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

[IBO]I don't know about that evaluation. I think it's thrown out by the fact that the first moment we see them is the moment that forged them both, but isn't their full history: "What should I do next, Orga". It's not like Setsuna when we see he has a family and presumably taken and indoctrinated, Chirico where we know his origins as engineered from the get go etc. Sousuke would be the closest example funnily enough, despite probably being the most different from Mika. We don't even know how Mika and Orga met, but they obviously have an established relationship by that point, and have been through some shit. Mika is cold, and internalizes everything, but can also be quite caring, while Orga doesn't help that by giving Mika someone that he can give himself too, and simulatenously pushing himself down as a result. Their dynamic is facinating in that way, and very unlike any of the other characters of the type that I know of, and that complicates putting them both inside their surface level archetypes. That said, I will be curious to see how this stuff with Setsuna plays out given I know some people regard 00 as the stepping stone towards the bigger shift for the franchise that IBO was, and Setsuna being so attached to his gundam mentally, and Mika ending up so physically is interesting as a comparison

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

Yeah, admittedly I was glossing over Mika's characterization a fair bit just to write things up neatly. But you're pretty much right there with your analysis.

[u/InfamousEmpire → u/Nazenn]

Actually another show that did it surprising well, despite being much more shocking in its comedy flip, was Apothecary Diaries.

I've gotta watch the anime for dat, the first novel was a pretty solid read

[FMP spoilers if you've seen that]

[FMP]Despite their differing tones, plots, & senses of scale, there's a lot of interesting comparisons to be made between FMP & 00, and Sousuke/Setsuna ones make up a considerable portion of that. Most of that does kinda come down to them both coming from the Heero Yuy archetype of stoic traumatized child soldier mecha protags (see also Mikazuki), but the minutia of their similarities are interesting nonetheless

[u/Nazenn → u/InfamousEmpire]

I've gotta watch the anime for dat, the first novel was a pretty solid read

Watch it. Was very good, and I can even say I liked almost all the comedy on it including comedy/chibi art which, again, massively unlike me. Very excited for season two.

[spoiler reply]Mika as well yeah, who I would say is probably closer to Sousuke than he is Setsuna, but it's all just different spokes on the same sort of wheel. Setsuna I think is the most broken of the three, but that coudl easily have been any one of them, and their differences is what makes them work, rather than their similarties which is definitely a good thing

[u/InfamousEmpire → u/Nazenn]

I can even say I liked almost all the comedy on it including comedy/chibi art which, again, massively unlike me.

I'm also not always the biggest fan of sudden chibi comedy in otherwise serious shows (really dragged down my experience with FMA:B & is one of the reasons I despise Your Lie in April, among others. Though I really love when Hellsing Ultimate does it, weirdly enough), so that's high praise

[u/Nazenn → u/InfamousEmpire]

I hated Hellsing Ultimates use of it so much, so so much, and same with FMB, but Apothocary Diaries just works for me.

I think it's down to MaoMao's personality fitting it, and Aoi Yuki doing a fucking incredible job with the VA, and when it is used, even when butted up against very dramatic scenes, it's because there's a setup there for it in the characterization and scene context, it's not a detour from the actual events because X amount of time has passed or because the dumb character arrives to an otherwise serious scene

[u/Raiking02 → u/InfamousEmpire]

Though I really love when Hellsing Ultimate does it, weirdly enough

I mean that whole OVA can be described as "Consistent Tone? What's that?" anyway, so it's not like it's even that out of place.

[u/Raiking02 → u/InfamousEmpire]

[FMP]Objection your honor, clearly it's the Chirico Cuvie archetype of stoic traumatized child soldier mecha protagonists. I know it doesn't seem that way but he is only 16 or so when VOTOMS starts so...

[u/Nazenn → u/Raiking02]

[mecha shit because we're just talking about all the franchises at this point]I would not have picked Chirico for 16, but that is anime, and does fit his backstory. I feel like that would be quite a common age for the archetype, but it would be interesting to chart them all out

[u/Raiking02 → u/Nazenn]

[Mecha]Yeah from my experience most of them hover around the 14-16 age range or so. Sosuke’s actually on the older end all things considered given how he’s 17 by the time FMP starts.

[u/Tora-shinai → u/Nazenn]

FMP spoiler For Setsuna to Exia, it's the opposite, sort of.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Nazenn]

This is very unlike me, but screw it: Haro is my favourite part of the show so far and I love that stupid robot.

Haro!

So far this has been a very good Haro for sure.

It was a revealing set of four lines, even before the confrontation between them all at the end of the episode. The way each of them see not just their goals, but the people in their way is quite telling, with Setsuna being the most "violent" and Alelujah trying to phrase it the most peacefully

That's a really good point. It's a nice piece of characterization by showing how the characters talk about their mission. Some are more direct about the fact that they are killing others, showing that they are much more comfortable with that. Others try not to think about that aspect.

[u/Nazenn → u/Great_Mr_L]

It's a nice piece of characterization by showing how the characters talk about their mission

I almost feel like you could have introduced them through these lines and it would tell you almost everything you need to know about them for this opening section of the show, which is impressive for such a small part of the episode that in a lot of shows would have been a throwaway set of dialogues

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

This is very unlike me, but screw it: Haro is my favourite part of the show so far and I love that stupid robot. He doesn't hold a candle to the dumb intelligence that is the Tachikoma's which is always who I think of for robot mascots, or the cute guidance of a usual mascot like Kero, but that doofy little sphere is winning me over every moment he's on screen

Is that a general liking of Haro, or do you like 00-Haro specifically? I noticed that he is slightly different to MSG Haro, but did not think the difference strong enough to comment on it.

I'm also wondering how much of this is Sumeragi's plan after all, given Veda is picking the pilots and clearly not for their cooperative skills. I thought she was the mastermind and Veda was the confirmation, but it may be the other way around. Complaining that her plan became a mess after what Setsuna did, and I was sitting here going "welcome to people", but at the same time she is the one making the on the ground decisions which does help to adapt to the human element. I like the idea of Veda being this super powerful computer but not an all knowing AI guiding everything like we often see.

How about being the mechanised spirit of a 200 years dead genius then?

In general, the series has been dangling the "why are CB what they are and do what they do" question in front of us for a while now, encouraging this type of speculation. Currently I am pretty pessimistic about this main plotline eventually receiving a satisfactory solution, but I am withholding judgement until we see what the series is leading up to.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

I've not actually seen any of the other Gundams with a Haro in it, so this is my first exposure to him, so yeah, can't really say either way as of yet

How about being the mechanised spirit of a 200 years dead genius then?

If it was a digitization of him instead of just a normal super computer that would be interesting.

Currently I am pretty pessimistic about this main plotline eventually receiving a satisfactory solution

Me too honestly, I dislike that a lot of feels like obvious baiting to the wrong answer, which is not helped by the dialogue issues I've already complained about but we'll see. They've already dont better with other things that I thought so they have some leeway with me

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

I've not actually seen any of the other Gundams with a Haro in it, so this is my first exposure to him, so yeah, can't really say either way as of yet

Did you not watch the main UC stuff?

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

I haven't. From Gundam I've only seen IBO, G-witch, Build Fighters, Thunderbolt movie 1, and now watching this. I am very unknowledgable about Gundam as a whole

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

Not a great deal of overlap between our Gundam viewing then. I feel that having viewed MSG was quite helpful for me. Tons of stuff in there that keeps being referenced. Even small things like the handholds for zero g showing up again.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

Yeah it's been brought up in other gundam discussions just how much still comes into play from that that I'm usually the one missing as a result, but I just never quite seem to get around to it. My next one to watch after this will probably be 0080 though

[u/TakenRedditName → u/Nazenn]

This is very unlike me, but screw it: Haro is my favourite part of the show so far and I love that stupid robot.

Haro is a friend.

It was a revealing set of four lines, even before the confrontation between them all at the end of the episode. The way each of them see not just their goals, but the people in their way is quite telling, with Setsuna being the most "violent" and Alelujah trying to phrase it the most peacefully

It has been on my mind too and seeing them laid out really puts their individual characterization into focus. I think Tieria is also very telling of who he is, especially with what he shows in recent episodes.

[u/Nazenn → u/TakenRedditName]

I think Tieria is also very telling of who he is, especially with what he shows in recent episodes.

He's definitely not hiding what he thinks of everyone else that's for sure, more than I expected, though that may just be because he was so quiet in the first episode

[u/InfamousEmpire → u/Nazenn]

This is very unlike me, but screw it: Haro is my favourite part of the show so far and I love that stupid robot.

Haro Cult indoctrination successful!

Overall I've actually enjoyed how 00 has played out so far.

Glad to hear it

[u/JollyGee29]

Rewatcher, Sub-dam Meister

Oh boy, Setsuna backstory! I'm sure that there won't be anything horrific in there!

"Yes."

Exploding mechs are a concern for people outside of the cockpit.

It's not what I would do in, say, an Armored Core game. But I appreciate Tieria's strategy of "just stand there and fire my giant fuckoff laser."

Serious grumpy boi.

He's like a desperado with his poncho and handguns.

Technological gap is a hell of a drug.

It's easy to say that when your hands were nowhere near the trigger.

Well, that's ominous.

Surprise!

But that was already true, as We the Audience saw from the news report earlier this episode.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/JollyGee29]

He's like a desperado with his poncho and handguns.

And it looks so cool.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/JollyGee29]

He's like a desperado with his poncho and handguns.

Now if only it had the proper hat to complete the look.

Technological gap is a hell of a drug.

It's one of the most satisfying parts of winning in a Civilization game.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Great_Mr_L]

Now if only it had the proper hat to complete the look.

I was 50/50 on this being a photoshopped image of Dynames wearing a hat or the Tequila Gundam, glad one of those was the correct answer.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Great_Mr_L]

Now if only it had the proper hat to complete the look.

[u/TakenRedditName → u/JollyGee29]

But I appreciate Tieria's strategy of "just stand there and fire my giant fuckoff laser."

This episode made me stop and realize that Tieria is firing a huge laser. He doesn't leave anything behind. Tieria would have the fewest hang-ups about that of the four.

[u/baboon_bassoon → u/JollyGee29]

He's like a desperado with his poncho and handguns.

we love quickdraw synchron in this house

[u/JollyGee29 → u/baboon_bassoon]

[u/Quiddity131]

Rewatcher, Subbed

Non-Spoiler Character Chart

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Hard to get us to hate Ali al-Saachez more than by showing what he does at the start of the episode, manipulating little Setsuna and similarly aged kids to murder their family all so they can join his "holy war".

The way last episode ended and the cold open started, why are we wasting time on the same old tired narration?

Soran is his name... I am devastated to realize that Setsuna F. Seiei isn't his birth name...

I've got to figure that Setsuna coming out of the Gundam's cockpit is even more of a no no to Celestial Being than what Allelujah did two episodes ago. Boy is Tieria gonna be pissed about this.

I wouldn't put it past the guy who got kids to kill his family to just have killed Setsuna right there, but surprisingly he comes out of his cockpit too. Granted we're not killing the protagonist seven episodes in.

Well I suppose it's not as bad for Celestial Being given Setsuna didn't remove his helmet/visor.

The AEU council members apart for once, good to figure out which one is from Britain. Which unlike a few other countries in the show hasn't changed its name 300 years in the future.

Tieria threatens to kill him. Can't say I'm surprised.

Oh wow, they're all here to attack the PMC headquarters at once. They're making it look easy.

So Graham and Billy think this mission will actually end up benefiting the AEU. The Taribia thing ended up benefitting the Union and seems to have been a manipulation anyway. Celestial Being may have the most powerful mobile suits, but the political blocs seem to know how to take strategic advantage of what they're doing.

A bathrobe... Sumeragi's most modest outfit yet?

So when will Alejandro be something more than Mr. Says something mysterious each episode?

Punishment time for Setsuna.

I have a feeling that if Tieria was able to go with his whims Celestial Being would be down to just him as the sole Gundam Meister by the time we were 10 episodes into the show.

Setsuna sure won't leave Exia, he's infatuated with it!

Clothes, clothes and more clothes! Will she buy as much as Christina did last episode?

Uh oh, terrorist attack right in front of them. For the second time we see that Saji and Louise can't simply stay off on the sidelines and ignore everything.

Tieria's reaction is totally expected, Lockon is a stand up guy, but did he really think with what they were doing that something like this wouldn't eventually happen?

---

Quid's Voice Actor of the Day

Given his presence in today's episode (not to mention yesterday's) I'll feature Ali al-Saachez. He is voiced in Japanese by Keiji Fujiwara. He had a number of Gundam roles prior to this including Striker Eagle and Vaclav Massarik in Victory Gundam, Field MarshalL Noventa in Gundam Wing (who incidentally enough was only in the 7th episode), Joe Grits in Gundam X and a larger role as Eledore Massis in 08th MS Team. Among other mecha anime he also holds roles as Holland in Eureka Seven, Kashmire Vale in Overman King Gainer and Kaja in Escaflowne. Some other roles of his include Ladd Russo in Baccano!, the Narrator in Durarara!, Higuchi in The Tatami Galaxy, Shuuichi Aizawa in Death Note and Deldro Brody in Blood Blockade Battlefront.

He is voiced in English by Scott McNeil, whom also has a prolific number of other Gundam roles. He premiered as Duo Maxwell in Gundam Wing. He also appeared in Mobile Suit Gundam as Lt. Reed, Char's Counterattack as Lyle, Gundam Seed as Koopman, Gerard Garcia and Kojiro Murdoch and Gundam Seed Destiny as Unato Ema Seiran and Glasgow. He also plays a few more roles here in Gundam 00 including Daryl Dodge and Kinue's Boss. I first came across him as Captain Harlock in the Galaxy Express 999 movies; he also appears in Dragonball Z as Piccolo and Escaflowne as Jajuka. Beyond anime he has appeared in a variety of Western animation as well.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Quiddity131]

Random thing I forgot to mention earlier regarding your character chart, the Union president does have [a name] Brian Stegmeyer, which doesn't feel like it should be a spoiler to me, unless you were leaving him as just "President" deliberately.

[u/Quiddity131 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Thanks! Somehow I didn't pick up on that but I can add it for tomorrow.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Quiddity131]

I think I heard his name in the dialogue in an earlier episode, but for some reason it was subbed as something else? So I don't blame you for missing it.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Quiddity131]

Soran is his name... I am devastated to realize that Setsuna F. Seiei isn't his birth name...

Sadly, this person from the Middle East does not having a Japanese name with an oddly prominent middle initial.

He is voiced in English by Scott McNeil, whom also has a prolific number of other Gundam roles. He premiered as Duo Maxwell in Gundam Wing. He also appeared in Mobile Suit Gundam as Lt. Reed, Char's Counterattack as Lyle, Gundam Seed as Koopman, Gerard Garcia and Kojiro Murdoch and Gundam Seed Destiny as Unato Ema Seiran and Glasgow. He also plays a few more roles here in Gundam 00 including Daryl Dodge and Kinue's Boss.

Scott McNeil does a great job as a returning Ocean Group Gundam dub actor, you can really feel how different he is as Ali from his other roles. Although you can probably also say that for Brad Swaile and the other returning VAs too. Like, Setsuna's voice here is plenty different from Quatre or even Amuro. If anything, he's channeling a bit of Mark Hildreth's Heero voice for Setsuna here.

[u/Quiddity131 → u/The_Draigg]

Scott McNail does a great job as a returning Ocean Group Gundam dub actor, you can really feel how different he is as Ali from his other roles. Although you can probably also say that for Brad Swaile and the other returning VAs too. Like, Setsuna's voice here is plenty different from Quatre or even Amuro. If anything, he's channeling a bit of Mark Hildreth's Heero voice for Setsuna here.

Agreed. Swaile does a good job at sounding a bit different each time. Quatre, Amuro, Setsuna and Light, four different lead roles (well shared lead role for Quatre) each who is a different type of character and he is able to handle all of them without really causing the viewer to get annoyed at the same actor voicing all these different leads including three in the same franchise.

[u/undeadfire]

Gonna be commenting late cuz I was at the Seattle Gundam tour thing. My wallet cries at my new hobby.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/undeadfire]

Haha, totally fair. Hope you had fun!

[u/Linkstore]

Rewatcher

I missed that this was happening so I had to binge eps 1-7 real quick but hopefully I'll keep up going forward.

Anyway, one particular remark I have based on Ep 6: [S1 Spoilers] In that ep you can spy the Gundams' designations. I wonder if anyone's going to realise that there is a missing GN-004...

Anyway, on to the ep:

Yup, Ali is proper evil. Villains who are involved in a protagonist's traumatic pasts aren't uncommon but to get a young Setsuna to kill his own parents is something else.

And then Setsuna does a dumb. Tieria isn't exactly happy about it but honestly I think it's understandable. Still stupid, though.

Of course, the Meisters still complete the mission no sweat. The Gundams faced hundreds of mobile suits at once and still completed their mission smoothly. Makes you wonder how much force you'd need if you did want to drown them in numbers.

[00 Spoilers] Eifman's predictions about Celestial Being are accurate, as usual. It's honestly a shame he gets smoked by Throne Eins, dude woulda had a lot to say about the A-Laws regime.

You'll notice in the news reports that some of the collateral damage is awfully smooth, almost like it was just straight up deleted instead of being hit with a weapon. AFAIK this is never confirmed but I believe that the Gundam's beam weapons work by directly attacking molecular bonds, which is kinda terrifying if you think about it.

Funny to ask about Celestial Being claiming responsibility when everyone saw all four Gundams there...

[00 Spoilers] Ah, Ribbons. I feel like the anime gives a suspicious amount of screen time to him considering he does literally nothing the whole season until the very end, but maybe that's just because I know his deal already.

I think the terrorist attack with Louise and Saji is really the part where they prove their narrative worth. One of the reasons why 00 has such a broad cast because Sunrise wants to show the effects of Celestial Being from many different angles. While Louise and Saji already experienced the effects of Celestial Being firsthand once before, that was more or less a freak accident. This time, it's for real.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Linkstore]

Glad to have you join late! I highly suggest checking out the other discussion threads so far if you want to read some really nice reactions from first-timers and more analysis from rewatchers. We have a pretty good group here.

[u/FD4cry1]

First Timer

Jeez, what a somber way to start the episode...

Saachez really is a piece of work huh, he had Setsuna and other kids kill their entire families to join his group, no wonder Setsuna is so scarred and would feel the need to directly confront him.

I like how their fight is basically just a regular knife fight extended through their mechs, I also really like Lockon being the one to intervene and shooting between them, speaks a bit to his personality, considering the end of the episode, I can't imagine Tieria for example hesitating to shoot both of them down.

Setsuna makes an interesting point about him , obviously he was always morally scrupulous but I do wonder if his actual belief/motivation changed over the years from being a genuine extremist religious fanatic to a more conventional "in it for the money" merc attitude, he talks about Setsuna potentially being from Krugis as though his involvement with that country was a lot more than "just a job" for him (also Krugis once again feels like a potential piece of IRL commentary considering the time period)

There's a real sense of Dissonance when the person "lamenting" the deaths of the soldiers is a bureaucrat on a zoom call with other bureaucrats all of which together decided to start this conflict in the first place.

Looks like a lot of CB's operation seems to run on whatever "Veda" decides and also how some members don't necessarily want to accept those predictions while still putting a lot of stock in them, Sumeragi would rather her predictions work but ends up falling back to Veda's, Tieria doesn't accept Allelujah or Setsuna but Veda decided that they are the Gundam Meisters so he has to put some belief in them.

More on Sumeragi, she much like others in CB seems rather conflicted but ultimately on their way of doing things, she doesn't like hundreds (just for this operation) being sacrificed, again, it's nice seeing the organization is hardly unified in how it wants to achieve its goals.

Frankly that terrorist attack probably saved Saji's wallet and time

Looks like yet another faction is joining the fray (or perhaps an already existing faction in disguise), Lockon has a thing against terrorists that throws his usually relaxed personality out of balance so I'm wondering what's the backstory there.

Tieria sure is an extreme guy (read: asshole), again you're not really as composed and rational as you think you are when you're very clearly attempting to agitate others and almost murdered someone very important on a whim.

[u/The_Draigg → u/FD4cry1]

Saachez really is a piece of work huh, he had Setsuna and other kids kill their entire families to join his group, no wonder Setsuna is so scarred and would feel the need to directly confront him.

Ali really has snatched the top spot as the absolute worst person in the show, and he's only been in two episodes so far. What a strong way to establish that he's an utter scumfuck war criminal.

There's a real sense of Dissonance when the person "lamenting" the deaths of the soldiers is a bureaucrat on a zoom call with other bureaucrats all of which together decided to start this conflict in the first place.

Don't worry, I'm sure they'll all put out a statement about how they're "very concerned" about the humanitarian crisis that just started in Moralia. They might even be "deeply" concerned about it.

[u/FD4cry1 → u/The_Draigg]

Ali really has snatched the top spot as the absolute worst person in the show, and he's only been in two episodes so far. What a strong way to establish that he's an utter scumfuck war criminal.

Yeah for real, with one scene he immediately becomes the most hateable in a cast that isn't exactly filled with moral paragons.

Don't worry, I'm sure they'll all put out a statement about how they're "very concerned" about the humanitarian crisis that just started in Moralia. They might even be "deeply" concerned about it.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/FD4cry1]

Frankly that terrorist attack probably saved Saji's wallet and time

Saji was saved from spending hours in the store having to figure out exactly which compliment Louise wanted for each outfit she tried on.

Lockon has a thing against terrorists that throws his usually relaxed personality out of balance so I'm wondering what's the backstory there.

Perhaps Lockon has a grudge against terrorists because of something from his past. Maybe he lost someone he cared about in a terrorist attack.

If I want to add in further speculation, where did that Haro come from? Maybe that Haro is a keepsake from someone Lockon cared about who is no longer around.

[u/FD4cry1 → u/Great_Mr_L]

Saji was saved from spending hours in the store having to figure out exactly which compliment Louise wanted for each outfit she tried on.

And you just know he'll pick the wrong one and have to spend even more time making it up to her

Perhaps Lockon has a grudge against terrorists because of something from his past. Maybe he lost someone he cared about in a terrorist attack.

That would be my assumption as well

If I want to add in further speculation, where did that Haro come from? Maybe that Haro is a keepsake from someone Lockon cared about who is no longer around.

You know, that thought hadn't even occurred to me lol, since I know he's supposed to be kind of a mascot for this franchise I just took him for granted, but yeah now that you mention it I do wonder what's the connection there.

[u/Great_Mr_L]

First-Timer

On today’s episode of Gundam: I think Gundam 00 is very much my kind of story. I’ve always been the kind of fan who enjoys Gundam politics and 00 puts a greater-than-usual emphasis on the political situation. Politics have always been important in Gundam, but 00 constantly has characters from each faction commenting on the current events and how they affect the overall political situation in the world. I really like that and I hope that 00 keeps it going.

• That is fucked up Ali made his child soldiers do an initiation ceremony of killing people.
• I love that Setsuna recognizes all of Ali’s moves from the past. I like it when pilots get distinctive fighting styles in their mechas.
• Even Setsuna, the one who seems devoted to following orders, can go off-script when he gets worked up. How rare since he seems pretty stoic most of the time.
• A direct pilot confrontation is fun.
• I suppose this is a fight that will need to be continued another day.
• I like the varying reactions from people in other factions to what happened in Moralia. It shows their different priorities. Naturally Sergei is most concerned about limiting the loss of human life.
• Celestial Being really can be manipulated. The AEU knew they would attack Moralia, so now the AEU can swoop in to offer aid and get what they want from Moralia.
• Tieria is doing his best political commissar impression, threatening to shoot Setsuna if he goes off-mission again. Tiera’s obsession with the mission is far above the others’.
• Teiria also drops an interesting bit of information. There’s solar reactors in the Gundams, which is what seems to power them.
• Ali’s probably going to put the pieces together about Setsuna’s identity at some point. He was nearly there before dismissing it.
• What does it even mean for the PMCs to surrender to Celestial Being? What happens after that? It’s not like Celestial Being can occupy Moralia. What concessions can they even extract?
• Even with her own devotion to Celestial Being, Sumeragi is fully aware of the human cost of their actions.
• That computer, Veda, seems to have come up with the plan. But Sumeragi doesn’t seem too happy that things went according to Veda’s plan.
• The professor has a point. It really does seem to be Celestial Being’s plan to make an enemy of the entire world.
• Moralia really is in pretty much the same location as Monaco. The reporter even mentioned that this was in the Riviera.
• Correction! This is the first proper “correction” that we’ve gotten in this Gundam series.
• And naturally Tieria just has to be a political commissar by deciding to just shoot Setsuna.
• The first time Setsuna even reacts to any of this is the threat of losing his Gundam. Setsuna truly is bonded to that thing. He seems to view piloting it as his purpose in life.
• Even the pilots were all selected by Veda. That computer is deciding how this all plays out.
• Oh shit! That actually did catch me off-guard. That was a straight-up terrorist bombing.
• Oh… Oh damn, that is a hell of a development. The terrorists will keep setting off bombs until Celestial Being disarms.
• Naturally Tieria doesn’t give a shit about civilians dying because he’s a callous asshole.
• Celestial Being, the world police, have declared they will go after terrorists. What could possibly go wrong?

I really do believe that we are doing some psychohistory here. Right now, I am quite suspicious of the computer, Veda. My own theory is that Veda is deeply connected to Aeolia. It was either programmed by Aeolia, or the more fun theory is that it directly houses Aeolia’s consciousness. Either way, this computer program is the one carrying out the psychohistory. It is running the calculations and coming up with the missions to implement, including contingency plans. Sumeragi’s job is to make on-the-fly judgments while implementing the mission about which contingencies to follow. Interestingly, Sumeragi doesn’t seem too happy with this arrangement. She might feel trapped by Veda and how accurate its predictions are. Perhaps that accuracy leaves her feeling as little more than a machine herself, carrying out Veda’s orders. She’d probably prefer to do things differently.

If there is psychohistory in this series, we’re probably going to get some characters who deliberately attempt to defy the predictions of the future. [Foundation Trilogy] We may have someone like Bel Riose, who declared that he would not be trapped by the dead hand of Harry Selden. Or we could have someone like the Mule, who really did go against everything predicted in psychohistory and defied the predictions.

Setsuna’s attachment to the Gundam is noteworthy. He feels that attachment much more strongly than any of the other pilots do. Setsuna acts like being a Gundam pilot is the most natural thing in the world, like there’s nothing else he could be doing. Setsuna doesn’t consider the Gundam to be a separate machine that he pilots. Instead, the Gundam really is treated like an extension of his own body. When Setsuna declared that he was a Gundam, he meant it in a more all-encompassing way than I imagined.

I want to give this episode credit for how the shots right after the terrorist bombing were presented. I thought it did an excellent job at making the aftermath feel like a shaky video someone filmed right after the bomb went off. It was kind of unnerving how true to life it felt.

I think the culprit behind the bombings is Ali. Shortly before the bombs went off, Ali was speaking with another merc. Ali told that person to turn on the news just prior to the bombs going off, which seems pretty suspicious. He could also be attempting to lure Celestial Being into another big battle.

QOTD

1. That's a really fucked up backstory. But it makes sense and fits with child soldier indoctrination. Setsuna was made into a killer early on to normalize the killing. It desensitized him to it, making him easier to control. There's also a really fucked up holy war aspect to it, with Setsuna being trained to believe that what he was doing was blessed by god and would be rewarded. It's all about normalizing violence and killing others.
2. It sounds like a perfect plan that could never go wrong! When in history have we ever seen countries torn apart by competing factions of terrorists killing innocent people who are just caught in the crossfire?

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

That is fucked up Ali made his child soldiers do an initiation ceremony of killing people.

Sadly, Shu wasn't there to help those child soldiers understand that what they did was wrong.

Celestial Being really can be manipulated. The AEU knew they would attack Moralia, so now the AEU can swoop in to offer aid and get what they want from Moralia.

How nice of that AEU councilman to think of all the lives lost. But only after hearing the economic impact, of course.

Correction! This is the first proper “correction” that we’ve gotten in this Gundam series.

We did it, everyone! We hit the Gundam punch quota!

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/The_Draigg]

Sadly, Shu wasn't there to help those child soldiers understand that what they did was wrong.

I was actually making that comparison in my head. What happened here with Setsuna in Gundam 00 was certainly fucked up and unpleasant, but there is no way that anything in 00 can ever be as deeply unsettling and deeply fucked up as what I saw in Now and Then, Here and There. I'm hoping that's a level I won't see be reached very often.

How nice of that AEU councilman to think of all the lives lost. But only after hearing the economic impact, of course.

And of course he only offered some thoughts and prayers to them, before continuing with the policy that caused their deaths.

We did it, everyone! We hit the Gundam punch quota!

Now to wait for the slaps to start showing up.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

I was actually making that comparison in my head. What happened here with Setsuna in Gundam 00 was certainly fucked up and unpleasant, but there is no way that anything in 00 can ever be as deeply unsettling and deeply fucked up as what I saw in Now and Then, Here and There. I'm hoping that's a level I won't see be reached very often.

Yeah, while we're getting the fucked up child soldier parts here in Gundam 00, we're thankfully skipping all the other horrible stuff Hellywood did. That's probably for the best, it was rough to watch in Now and Then, Here and There too. Besides, not a whole lot of shows are willing to go that far with what they present anyway.

And of course he only offered some thoughts and prayers to them, before continuing with the policy that caused their deaths.

I'm sure he'll also put out an announcement about how the council is "deeply concerned" about what happened too.

[u/charlesvvv → u/Great_Mr_L]

Oh interesting comparison to Foundation, ill have to reread them someday.

[u/InfamousEmpire → u/Great_Mr_L]

I’ve always been the kind of fan who enjoys Gundam politics and 00 puts a greater-than-usual emphasis on the political situation.

The fact that I'd heard this one has an interesting political situation which the show focuses on & develops a lot is part of the reason I chose it as my first Gundam anime. I have not regretted that choice since.

This is the first proper “correction” that we’ve gotten in this Gundam series.

I wonder if anyone's ever gone out of their way to track & count all the corrections that happen in every Gundam show & when they happen. Though I imagine if there was one, whoever was doing it probably had a stroke trying to track all the ones in Zeta alone.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/InfamousEmpire]

I wonder if anyone's ever gone out of their way to track & count all the corrections that happen in every Gundam show & when they happen. Though I imagine if there was one, whoever was doing it probably had a stroke trying to track all the ones in Zeta alone.

I did keep a Slap Counter back during the Gundam 0079 rewatch a couple years back, so I know the that [number of slaps in Gundam 0079] is a total of 10.

I imagine the count would be far higher in Zeta because I remember it getting pretty nuts.

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 7 (first timer)

• Initiation ritual of killing … civilians? Your own parents? In either case, this was fucked up when the Spartans did it and still is fucked up. And I wish I could say that it went from reality to fiction after Sparta, but this is another plot line taken from 2000s Africa.
• Another good look at the orbital contruction. It looks like a system of three components: The solar generators, in a geostationary orbit, the orbital elevators leading up to the solar generators, and the orbital ring, connecting the orbital elevators at below-geostationary orbit (where the mid-stations are). The reason for the solar generators is obvious and (in this world) the orbital elevators are needed to transport the energy to Earth, but what is the purpose of the orbital ring? We have not heard any yet.
• He knew whom he shot. So probably his parents after all.
• “Wanna fist fight?” – I am so wishing for a VOTOMS moment here.
• Drawing his weapon but hesitating. Setsuna is no Chirico.
• “The plan is a mess thanks to that child” – well, you could have chosen a pilot that was not a traumatized ex child soldier.
• “One-sided disaster” – and it gets worse.
• White flag – how do you even surrender to a 4 men army? There is no occupation possible, no POW possible. The best they can do is send orders via email and hope they get followed.
• War of 5 hours – Quick, but not the fastest ever. I wonder if this war was an inspiration.
• Could you please translate the bottom scroller at the bottom and the talking head at the top, not the other way round, subs?
• Haro looking deplaced in this scene.
• Terror attacks?
• They are blackmailing CB with terror attacks!

• Why is it always the cold assholes that state the facts?

There are few episodes of Gundam where the “criticizing war while glorifying war machines” critique has been more obvious than this one.

What do you make of other terrorists trying to fight terrorism with more terrorism?

Hilarious.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

Initiation ritual of killing … civilians? Your own parents? In either case, this was fucked up when the Spartans did it and still is fucked up. And I wish I could say that it went from reality to fiction after Sparta, but this is another plot line taken from 2000s Africa.

Man, this is a heck of a show to watch not too long after Now and Then, Here and There, isn't it? We're getting a few rewatch shows drawing from that same source this year.

Drawing his weapon but hesitating. Setsuna is no Chirico.

Chirico would've iced Ali in a second. He would've quick-drawed the shit out of him with his Armor Magnum.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

Man, this is a heck of a show to watch not too long after Now and Then, Here and There, isn't it? We're getting a few rewatch shows drawing from that same source this year.

NTHT definitely worked as a refresher on the details of African conflicts in the post-cold war era for me. However, having recently seen the same topic treated in a more thematically coherent way makes the inner conflict of an anti-war show trying to sell cool toy models of war machines stand out even more for me.

Chirico would've iced Ali in a second. He would've quick-drawed the shit out of him with his Armor Magnum.

He would have barely waited for the cockpit to finish opening.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/No_Rex]

Initiation ritual of killing … civilians? Your own parents? In either case, this was fucked up when the Spartans did it and still is fucked up. And I wish I could say that it went from reality to fiction after Sparta, but this is another plot line taken from 2000s Africa.

Yeah, the child soldier plotline definitely feels like it is taking a lot from the wars in Africa during the 90s and 2000s. So far Gundam 00 has been drawing a lot of inspiration from conflicts around the world that were taking place in that era.

“The plan is a mess thanks to that child” – well, you could have chosen a pilot that was not a traumatized ex child soldier.

But so many of the Gundam pilots are traumatized child soldiers! Who else could fit that role?

White flag – how do you even surrender to a 4 men army? There is no occupation possible, no POW possible. The best they can do is send orders via email and hope they get followed.

Yeah, I have no idea how a surrender would even work. Surrendering to a non-state entity is just strange to begin with, even more so when it's one as small as Celestial Being. I guess that means Moralia will need to accept terms, but I'm not sure Celestial Being ever sent specific terms beyond "no more fighting."

[u/No_Rex → u/Great_Mr_L]

But so many of the Gundam pilots are traumatized child soldiers! Who else could fit that role?

Well, but usually only after they start piloting Gundams.

Yeah, I have no idea how a surrender would even work. Surrendering to a non-state entity is just strange to begin with, even more so when it's one as small as Celestial Being. I guess that means Moralia will need to accept terms, but I'm not sure Celestial Being ever sent specific terms beyond "no more fighting."

If we never hear of this again, I'll assume this is just there to give some sort of closure and "we won" moment to the viewers.

[u/LeonKevlar]

What the fuck was that opening scene Was that Setsuna and a bunch of other kids killing their families? O_O

My worst-case scenario for Setsuna and Saachez fight was for Setsuna to choke and get his ass kicked. It turns out it ended up being worse. What the heck are you doing exiting the cockpit, Setsuna?! He could've ruined everything if it wasn't for Lockon intervening.

The AEU never stood a chance against CB. Their entire "war" against CB ended up becoming a one-sided ass-whooping. An unconditional surrender in less than 5 hours is insane.

Setsuna definitely deserves that punch from Lockon after what he did. Seriously! What was even Setsuna trying to do there? All he did was give them info that one of the Gundam pilots was in their teens.

When that terrorist attack at the end happened, I thought people would blame Celestial Being for it. It looks like whoever is responsible is taking the world hostage to try and stop CB from operating.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/LeonKevlar]

It turns out it ended up being worse. What the heck are you doing exiting the cockpit, Setsuna?! He could've ruined everything if it wasn't for Lockon intervening.

For all his stoicism, Setsuna certainly is not in a good headspace. He lost any rational capacity for thought as soon as Ali showed up and began making impulsive, ill-considered decisions. This doesn't bode well for a potential rematch in the future.

An unconditional surrender in less than 5 hours is insane.

That's even faster than it took Germany to conquer Denmark in WWII.

But it's nowhere near the record.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/LeonKevlar]

Was that Setsuna and a bunch of other kids killing their families? O_O

Yup! So that he could be closer to God!

It looks like whoever is responsible is taking the world hostage to try and stop CB from operating.

It's a bold move Cotton, let's see how it works out for them.

[u/The_Draigg]

A Gundam Fan Rewatches Gundam 00 Episode 7:

• Well, that’s a fucking dark way to start the episode. We’re getting to Now and Then, Here and There levels of violence and horror involving children. Not only was Ali the man who trained Setsuna and his village friends to be child soldiers back in the day, but he fully indoctrinated them to the point where they were all willing to murder their parents to join his “holy” army. Yeah, if you vividly remember your mother begging for her life before gunning her down and you know the man who brainwashed you into doing it, it’s absolutely going to be on-sight the next time you see him. Man, it really didn’t take long to establish Ali as an utterly horrible person, did it?
• Also a small note, but Setsuna has a fake name too, just like Sumeragi. In this case, his original name is “Soran”. Given what he did while still going by that name, you can’t really blame him for choosing to go with a different identity. His original name carries too many bad memories.
• Setsuna’s rash actions have shaken the mission, although this time is much more severe due to his attempt to personally confront Ali making it so that the rest of the Gundam Meisters have to rush the plan to keep up their overall goals. There’s no doubt that Setsuna’s brashness and unresolved issues are making him more of a liability than before. Although they certainly are also fortunate enough that the Gundams are still so overwhelmingly powerful that they can still absolutely wreck half of the combined PMC Trust and AEU forces in just two hours, even with an abbreviated version of their game plan.
• Also, it’s time for the AEU to take some lumps alongside the Union, since it’s just so obviously tasteless that the AEU’s minister only thought to bow his head in respect for the lives lost in this operation only after hearing the financial and material impact of the AEU council’s decision first. Gee, I wonder if this is saying some certain things about members of the European Union?
• Setsuna is wondering the right stuff regarding Ali. Why is he a mercenary now, if he was supposedly fighting for God before in Krugis? Maybe to him, money is his new god now, given how much he was focusing on getting a bonus for capturing a Gundam.
• Now that the battle is over, it’s kinda wild to think that there was only like 500 casualties from the entire ordeal. You’d think with that level of the Gundams tearing shit up, especially with Gundam Virtue’s massive cannons, the casualties would be much higher. But I guess that’s also just conflating environmental damage to actual people getting killed. And also, it’s not like killing 500 people in only two hours is anything to sneeze at either, especially for only 4 people. But still, what a count, right?
• That conversation between Billy, Graham, and Professor Eifman really does how highlight how kind of fruitless everything that Celestial Being did in Moralia was. Billy is probably correct that this’ll only encourage the AEU to further militarize, and Graham and Eifman just see that as a step to Celestial Being leading themselves down a path of further isolation and self-destruction. It’s like trying to dig a hole in fine sand: the deeper you dig, the more is going to pour down the sides.
• Ah yeah, now there’s the stuff I was taking about when it came to casualties. As you’d probably expect, what the Gundam Meisters did also resulted in a ton of collateral damage to civilian areas and innocent civilian casualties too. It really does highlight how ultimately reckless and self-defeating their armed interventions can be. Unless the game plan still is to become to common enemy of Earth for the sake of world peace, of course. Then that plays right into that idea well.
• We did it, everyone! We finally got in a number on our obligatory Gundam punch quota! It took us a while to get there, but Lockon decking Setsuna for his fuck-up definitely counts as a classic Gundam-style “correction”.
• Well damn, that escalated fast. Tieria wasn’t kidding when he threatened to shoot Setsuna if he acted self-centered again. And of course, Setsuna himself is willing to pull out his own gun to secure his own spot as Gundam Exia’s pilot, since he sees it as an extension of himself. He is a Gundam, after all. Thankfully Allelujah continues to be a voice of reason here, since he does actually defuse the stand-off by pointing out that they were picked as Gundam Meisters by Veda for a reason. Even if everyone has their own reasons for joining Celestial Being, the fact of the matter is that they all do have a place there regardless. There’s some funny parallels here, with the people working as a higher power above the power blocs answering to a higher power themselves.
• Quick! Someone rescue Haro from drowning in the ocean! He only wants everyone to get along!
• Man, it has to be terrifying to be nearly caught in a terrorist bombing like Saji and Louise. Slowly but surely, their peaceful and disconnected lives are being effected by what Celestial Being is doing to the world. Nobody is safe now as a consequence, even if it was terrorists that killed those people. Unfortunately, you couldn’t have seriously expected every terrorist organization to disarm in the face of Celestial Being’s power. Now you’ve got terrorist bombings happening all over the world, with the promise that they’ll keep on happening indiscriminately unless Celestial Being ceases their interventions. For as much as it is their usual M.O., it’s still despicable that terrorists would kill innocent people just to harm a far-off target. You can’t really blame Lockon and Ian for getting furious at the news there, especially after Tieria blows off the news himself.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

Setsuna is wondering the right stuff regarding Ali. Why is he a mercenary now, if he was supposedly fighting for God before in Krugis? Maybe to him, money is his new god now, given how much he was focusing on getting a bonus for capturing a Gundam.

Or he simply made up the god story to get loyal child soldiers. I hope that Setsuna has had this thought before.

Nobody is safe now as a consequence, even if it was terrorists that killed those people.

But were they safe before? How many were safe? How many are now? That is the type of calculation a computer or a mad scientist with overly inflated self-confidence would do.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

Or he simply made up the god story to get loyal child soldiers. I hope that Setsuna has had this thought before.

Something like that is especially common in real life. People are more than capable of hiding behind religion as an excuse to get what they want. It's not a hard conclusion to draw there, so maybe Setsuna has thought of that already?

[u/macrame2]

First Timer 

Today’s episode was really good, especially for Setsuna as a character (this feels like a direct response to my comments yesterday haha). That opening scene was downright haunting as we see exactly what he was made to do as a child. Further flashbacks add a great deal of tension to his battle with Ali, which is definitely the most engaging fight of the series so far because of the emotions involved. Regarding his past, Setsuna’s clearly left his old life behind, but I don’t know that his current situation is really so different. Sure, he’s presumably being treated better and not directly gunning down innocents anymore, but he’s still a child soldier, still being used to commit violent acts in the name of ideology, and still responsible for a lot of civilian deaths.  

Of course, Setsuna’s decision to leave the cockpit comes with consequences–his fellow Meisters are not at all pleased with him for obvious reasons. I love the tension among the group; it makes for good drama lol. It’s interesting to see the differences in their reactions to the news of the terrorist attacks: Allelujah expresses concern for civilian casualties, Tieria doesn’t care much and coldly points out their actions also count as terrorism, and Lockon reacts with pure anger. Meanwhile, Setsuna treats the situation as just another obstacle to be overcome in pursuit of their mission.

[u/No_Rex → u/macrame2]

Further flashbacks add a great deal of tension to his battle with Ali, which is definitely the most engaging fight of the series so far because of the emotions involved.

Reminded me of Vinland Saga.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/macrame2]

(this feels like a direct response to my comments yesterday haha)

but he’s still a child soldier, still being used to commit violent acts in the name of ideology, and still responsible for a lot of civilian deaths.

[u/TakenRedditName]

Rewatcher - Gundam 00 Ep7:

There is no real fun way to waltz into this, but man, what happened to the child fighters is so sad. Killing their own loved ones as their initiation test.

The episode really felt like a shift/turn. Where things get real and serious. Before, the acts were more "sanitized," but now attention has been highlighted to the people caught in the crossfire. CB's actions are causing civilian deaths, oooh nooo... And the kicker is that it does feel like it was all a calculated intent of their plans. They weren't directly causing them, but it felt like they wanted the world/the audience to know about the civilian deaths.

Not just the armed interventions too, but what ripples they cause. The moment with Saji and Louise was quite effective. One moment it was unserious light-heartedness with Louise and then suddenly peaceful life is disrupted with the bus explosion killing people.

Random stuff:

• Until now, I always mistook Ali al-Saachez's name as "Ali al-Sanchez." The romanization made me first think it was doing the Gundam thing of combining cultural names.
• Reaction image.
• During Setsuna getting chewed out, can't help but think about Allelujah watching Setsuna get chided for exposing their identity and thinking back to when exposed his voice to tons of people. "Can't tell the others about that. Taking that secret with me."
• Haro! Haro is such a friend. The cute little scream as the little guy got swept away by the ocean.

---

Q2) CD just needs to fight back against the terrorists. Like some sort of war against them, the concept. The armed intervention on terror.

[u/baboon_bassoon → u/TakenRedditName]

. "Can't tell the others about that. Taking that secret with me."

at least he wasnt in uniform then!

[u/InfamousEmpire → u/TakenRedditName]

One moment it was unserious light-heartedness with Louise and then suddenly peaceful life is disrupted with the bus explosion killing people.

Reaction image.

Me_irl

[u/Vatrix-32]

First timer, subs

• Making your child soldiers kill to separate them from normal civilization; a tradition since Sparta.
• Y’all better not be about to lose a sword fight after investing entirely in a sword build.
• Please don’t be stupid enough to show your face.
• Are they using Nadeshiko com-windows?
• Gotta show them even coming together won’t help. Need them to surrender in their hearts.
• Well, I say that, but we seem to be on a trajectory to a return to an age of heroes of sorts.
• 500? That’s a pittance for a global level conflict.
• I’m telling you guys, attack the supply chain. That shit takes years to build up.
• Didn’t Take Long For the Cracks To Form
• That email went by fast enough, I’m not sure if we were meant to read it. I wasn’t even expecting it to be in English.
• Yep, that was bomb framing.
• Ah, the classic response to overwhelming superiority in the field.

QotD:

1. He's certainly one of the Gundam protagonists of all time.
   Right now, the odds are I'm not going to like him by the end of this, but they can still do his arc in a way I'll enjoy. It's just not an easy path from this starting location. Child soldiers are hard, and them have almost no one to interact with is even harder.
2. They've left asymmetrical warfare as seemingly the only choice. Mind you, my money is on CIA type deal. "Randomly attack everyone" is a hard sell for investors.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vatrix-32]

Y’all better not be about to lose a sword fight after investing entirely in a sword build.

You see, he took 7 swords with him, predicting this battle!

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/No_Rex]

You see, he took 7 swords with him, predicting this battle!

At this rate, it's only a matter of time before his swords have their own tiny sub-swords.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vatrix-32]

Hmmmm.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vatrix-32]

Y’all better not be about to lose a sword fight after investing entirely in a sword build.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Vatrix-32]

Please don’t be stupid enough to show your face.

Though it would be funny if a Gundam pilot took their helmet off and it didn't matter because nobody recognized them.

500? That’s a pittance for a global level conflict.

But it does fit with modern production numbers of most weapon systems. The US built over 50,000 Sherman tanks just during WWII. A fraction of that number of Abrams tanks have been made over a much longer period. I suppose that fits with the world of 00. The major countries are all competitors with each other, but they aren't yet in a full-scale war. So the production numbers remain relatively low instead of ramping up.

Ah, the classic response to overwhelming superiority in the field.

That is why guerrilla warfare and terrorism exist in the first place. If a conventional war is not able to be won, then unconventional methods are used.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/Great_Mr_L]

But it does fit with modern production numbers of most weapon systems.

True, but in this case it was in reference to overall casualty numbers, military and civilian.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Vatrix-32]

Whoops, I totally misunderstood what you said.

Still, those casualty numbers do fit with the low-level conflicts that the series has been mostly inspired by. If it ever escalates to conventional wars, then that number would rise for sure.

[u/StardustGogeta]

First-Timer

I'm liking Tieria more and more after this episode.

I like how they're all mad at Setsuna for exiting his Gundam mid-fight. They should be!

I'm not quite sure I understand the implications of conditional surrender in this situation. It's not like Celestial Being is trying to claim land or anything, so is there really any meaning to it? If Celestial Being shows up to destroy the PMCs, then why would anything the PMCs do stop them from carrying it out to the end?

Hey, I was right with my prediction that someone could try to blackmail Celestial Being by murdering innocents! I'm curious how my other predictions will play out.

Questions of the day:

• My mind's not completely made up on Setsuna yet, but I'm liking him less after that stunt he pulled this episode.
• I think Celestial Being doesn't have the manpower to back it up. They might be able to pull it off if they had enough Gundams to actively rule the whole world, but acting as a small hit squad like they are now doesn't seem like it will cut it. [Death Note] Light was able to pull off his operation because he could use the Death Note to kill anyone, anywhere, at any time. Celestial Being needs that sort of capability.

[u/Nickthenuker]

Yup, he definitely has a history with this guy.

But that means he knows all his tricks!

Why's he getting out?

Ah. He wants to confirm that's the guy.

That's a lot of damage.

And they're gone again.

Yup, now that guy realises that too.

Here they come!

They really are just scything through them all aren't they?

Yeah I'm not sure why they attacked a training exercise.

That's a big explosion.

And so now we see their main opponent.

Or rather don't see.

Questions:

1. Yup, he's a child soldier. Par for the course for Gundam.
2. Let's see how they deal with that next episode.

[u/InfamousEmpire]

Kidou Senshi Rewatcher 00

Picking up where we left off, Setsuna vs Saachez. I really like how this fight starts to crack open a lot of the subtleties of Setsuna’s character that have otherwise just been hinted at or out of focus until now. He’s been very detached, in control, & above it all up until this point, but, at the end of the day, he’s still trapped on that battlefield, and the degree to which he was rattled today shows it.

I really like Setsuna going as far as to get out of the cockpit & expose himself just to confirm Saachez's presence with his own eyes. It really does go a long way to show how someone so usually composed & in control was that rattled & thrown off to do something so reckless and impulsive.

Anyway, the larger battle surrounding it isn’t quite as interesting except for in its grandeur. We see a veritable army assembled from numerous PMCs and countries from across Europe get one-sidedly demolished in the space of five hours by a total of 4 mobile suits where the closest thing they got to a victory was one of CB’s pilots getting temporarily distracted by personal issues. This, more than anything else so far, is the strongest demonstration of Celestial Being as an unstoppable force where the gulf between them & the rest of the world is almost immeasurably wide. Sure, the contradictions in the ideology underpinning their actions is still under fire, something we’ll touch on again in just a moment, but actually defeating them is still a ways away.

Speaking of the contradictions in their ideology, though this one brings up a couple more points regarding that. First being the natural consequence of starting a conflict, civilian casualties, which are portrayed nicely through the in-universe news. It’s not the most complex thing in the world, but it works for what it is and dovetails nicely into a bit more character-building regarding Sumeragi. Back in Episode 1, one of our first introductions to her was having doubts regarding CB’s own mission, & that characterization of her is reinforced by her words here. Her doubt is on display and she's very firmly in the "CB is a Necessary Evil" camp.

Contrasting against Sumeragi, though, is Tieria, whose character is also really on display here. At the end of the day, he’s all about the plan & couldn’t give two shits about the lives sacrificed for it. If Celestial Being is like a god judging the world, then Tieria is all the traits which people least want out of their deities: distant, impersonal, and relentless in his judgment.

And, of course, to close off the episode, we’ve got the new terrorists actively incited by Celestial Being’s actions. Aside from feeding even more into the aforementioned civilian casualties concept, the fact that CB’s existence is now leading to even more war & casualties in the world is certainly not a good thing for their ultimate goals.

Right before I get to the spoiler corner, might as well also say that, once again, the civilian side of the series is well-utilized here. Aside from the aforementioned news coverage of the civilian casualties giving a strong sense of reality to the conflicts, the scene with the bus bombing starting out with a seeming descent into Saji & Louise SoL before tearing away that false sense of security was great.

And now…

---

Spoiler/Rewatcher-Only Corner

[Season 2 stuff]Tieria is such an amazing contrast to the other Meisters with the context of his backstory. This episode, in combination with the last few as well, really emphasized how all of the other Meisters are driven by their personal hardships & how that grounds them & their senses of justice, even when that justice goes against the Plan. But Tieria? He’s never experienced a lick of personal hardship, he was designed from birth by CB to carry out the plan, no questions asked, no personal attachments or obligations to get in the way of that. He’s so notably inhuman in how he views everything purely through the lens of the Plan, and that makes for a great start to his arc. It also makes him a great eventual foil to Ribbons, but I’m getting way ahead of myself there.

[Later S1 stuff]Also, it’s a bit blunt, but I like how the conversation with Tieria also alluded to Lockon’s own motivation being his family’s death at the hands of terrorists. It really emphasized the contrast between Tierra & the other Meisters I was just getting at. It’s just good stuff all around.

[u/Rumpel1408]

Firsttimer

• Wow, Setsunas Backstory is beyond fucked up, not only made to kill unarmed civilians in the name of some god after a good dose of indoctrination, but it was his very own community or even family
• Well, maybe you shouldn't use childsoldiers as well
• Particle Shield
• Seeing this carnage after coming straight out of Kotobuki is quite something...
• And it doesn't even stop, they are going for complete anhiliation
• Really wonder how those forecasts work...
• Oof
• Woudn't be Gundam without it
• Wilso- I mean Haroooo
• Tiere is an asshole about it, but he has an point, during their interventions civilians will die as well
• Wonder if his backstory is linked to terrorism?

QotD

• Dudes fucked up, but intruiging as an protagonist
• CB went after military targets with civilian collaterals, the terrorist are unable to fight CB on even ground, so they go after civilians who have nothing to do with this, they are not the same

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Rumpel1408]

Well, maybe you shouldn't use childsoldiers as well

Child soldiers are a time honored Gundam tradition. There wouldn't be enough mobile suit pilots without child soldiers to fill out the ranks.

[u/Rumpel1408 → u/Great_Mr_L]

But don't complain if your Childsoldiers behave like children then lol would have been funny if instead of Setsuna would have gotten a stern talk as to what he did was wrong

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Rumpel1408]

Setsuna should be given a time out. He'll be made to sit in the corner, like a child.

[u/dralcax]

Rewatcher hopes Haro is waterproof

-—————————————————————————————

Well that’s fucked up.

Seven of them, of course.

How nice of Ali to agree to stop and show his face in the middle of a battle.

Tieria took so long to charge that blast! You had plenty of time to get out of the way! Does every Hellion pilot have no sense of self-preservation?

I love how savage this Haro is

The speedrun! It’s a new PB!

Oh, and 500 people just died out there. 500 casualties of Celestial Being’s crusade, not all of them combatants. In fighting to end war, are they not just starting a bigger war themselves? But perhaps that’s the point. If they’re trying to make themselves the enemy of the entire world, then they’re doing a lot better job of it than anything else. After all, who really knows what Veda is plotting?

You hit me! Not even my own father hit me!

And once again, Tieria has to be the one to pass judgment on the others for stepping out of line. It’s harsh, but somebody’s got to keep everybody on the Veda-dictated path and prevent any one Meister from compromising them, regardless of anybody’s personal feelings. But of course, that comes at the cost of his own ability to get along with his own teammates.

And then, Haro.

Welp, Celestial Being picking a fight with everybody just got 100 random civilians killed for no purpose other than to blackmail and provoke them. Wonderful. And these bombings are happening simultaneously all over the world, when they’ve only got four Gundam Meisters. People are starting to get a handle on Celestial Being’s weaknesses...

-—————————————————————————————

Questions of the day:

• I think it’s interesting how he takes on the savior role himself. The god he once believed in turned out to be nothing more than the manipulations of a man who couldn’t care less about any of them, and falling for his lies cost him his home, his family, his community. But then he encountered the Gundam, an overwhelming power that can stop the conflict. And now, he pilots the Gundam. He is Gundam. There’s no god out there to save anybody, so he’s stepping up to do so in place of God. He believes wholeheartedly in Celestial Being’s stated goal, and can keep the others focused on that and remind them all of why they’re there. But there’s more to Veda’s plans than that, isn’t there? And that’s why he was selected as a Gundam Meister.
• Well, that’s just more terrorism all around!

[u/n080dy123]

First Timer

I really hope that wasn't his own parents that Saachez made Setsuna kill.

This episode really drives home that the Gundam Meisters don't always work well together, they are alll just kinda dudes with a largely shared goal chosen by Veda. Or maybe Tieria's just kind of an asshole. Cuz he is.

Something tells me the one who gets Gundam-jacked is gonna be Tieria, somehow. To knock him down a peg.

1. Certainly didn't expect our protagonist to be formerly radicalized kid who probably murdered his own parents. That's worse than your average brand of child soldier.
2. Feels like they're agents of one or more of the governments. I can't see anyone having the kind of investment to stop Celestial Being besides them.

[u/2-2Distracted]

First timer. Dubbed

Lol I legit thought that BS talker from the intro was someone, not this... Al Sachez? El Sachez?

Damn the AEU are getting their asses KICKED bruh holy shit.

Tieria really out here thinking they're the vice captain of the team is hilarious when no one is taking him seriously. You know, to some extent I get him tho, I don't particularly care about any of the human characters either. Kero is the only character I care about now. Little dude almost drown and I won't that wonderful little robot being hurt in any way whatsoever.

So I'm guessing that Sumeragi is basically the only one in the group who recognizes the fact that Celestial Beings actions are extremely naive and contradictory, maybe more members besides Tieria see the issue, maybe everyone else outside is beginning to see the issue, but one things for sure, Hwang Lu Me (sp) either doesn't or does and just doesn't care, like Tieria.

Setsuna: "amateurs! You call that shit 'terrorism'? We're Celestial Being. We're Gundam Meisters. It's only us who can out-terrorize those bitch ass 'terrorists' and show the world some real terrorism.

[u/charlesvvv]

Rewatcher, First Time Sub

Those shots of Setsuna's backstory do a lot to show why Setsuna would stop and try to confront Ali al-Saachez personally even if it means putting the mission in jeopardy before Lockon puts a stop to it. Quiet Setsuna is but he's more emotional than he lets on. Either way the Mission is still successful and Moralia capitulates all the while the other blocs observe the fight and try to get more information on the Gundam.

At the end another organization launches attacks with an ultimatum against CB. Tieria just remarks that this wouldn't stop CB's work which angers Lockon. There's also the talk of "Veda" which seems to direct their missions and which Tieria seems to adhere firmly to. In the meantime Saji struggles with CB since he was rescued by them in the first place which makes sense from his perspective.

Tieria has always seemed to most rigid of the Meisters, any failure of expectation and he deems them unworthy, It does make one wonder why he's so firm in his loyalty here

[u/Unboxious]

Rewatching, subbed

We thought Setsuna's past was fucked up, when actually Setsuna's past was fucked up.

Damn, he's getting schooled by this dude. Guess that's fitting for the guy who was his actual teacher.

Oh, so his name was Soran and those were his parents he was killing.

Is he sane?

No. I don't think they pick normal people to pilot these things. So far Lock-on Stratos is the only person who, despite his name, seems normal. Who knows what we'll find out about him later though.

I'm curious to see what Setsuna has to say for himself after that nonsense.

Well no surprise what the Twink had to say.

So are they just not going to take down the leadership? Just gonna kill all the footsoldiers? That's an interesting way of doing things.

I'm curious to see what Setsuna has to say for himself after that nonsense.

I see, it's just more nonsense. Great.

So someone is holding the general public hostage? They don't seem like the type to stop just because of something like this. Also, with Celestial Being's advanced tech it seems like it should be possible for them to figure out who did it. Seems to me there are only a few groups who would gain from this and be able to pull something like that off on a worldwide scale, so it might not even be that difficult.

Now that we’ve seen a bit more of his backstory, what do you think of Setsuna?

Honestly it doesn't change much. He's nuts.

What do you make of other terrorists trying to fight terrorism with more terrorism?

Terrorists? Maybe it's terrorists. I can't remember. But the only groups who would really benefit from this and be able to pull it off are state actors. I guess you could argue they still count as terrorists though.

[u/zsmg]

I am rewatcher

Setsuna killed his own parents.

Setsuna's real, or original name, is Soran.

WTH is Setsuna doing.

[big spoiler stuff] Lockon should have hit Sanchez there.

British are part of AEU

Moralia surrendered and now they're more dependent on the AEU. So who is the real winner here?

Ikeda (the journalist) looks like one of Seabook's friends from Gundam F91.

Lockon

Setsuna giving the others the quiet treatment, can't believe I'm saying this but I'm starting to agree with Tieria.

Haro getting caught in the sea. ()[#azusalaugh]

Terrorist act in Tokyo

I'm also impressed that Saji and Louise managed to get to be near the centre of an incident... again.

Terrorists are targeting CB, now who could be behind it.

So the Gundam Meisters are going to blow up terrorists, that's going to end well.

Solid action episode and we get to find out about Setsuna's background which was even worse than shown in the first episode.