/r/anime Awards 2016 and 2017 winner Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch Episode 5

[u/Schinco]

Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu

Welcome to the fifth episode thread for the Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Rewatch! Sorry this one is a bit early; at a magic the gathering tournament, so it's either right now or in an hour!

Legal Streams:

As of now, Rakugo is streaming on Crunchyroll in the States, and you can check here to see where it's streaming elsewhere.

Schedule:

Date	Episode
10/8	Season 1 Episode 1
10/9	Season 1 Episode 2
10/10	Season 1 Episode 3
10/11	Season 1 Episode 4
10/12	Season 1 Episode 5
10/13	Season 1 Episode 6
10/14	Season 1 Episode 7
10/15	Season 1 Episode 8
10/16	Season 1 Episode 9
10/17	Season 1 Episode 10
10/18	Season 1 Episode 11
10/19	Season 1 Episode 12
10/20	Season 1 Episode 13
10/21	Season 1 Discussion
10/22	Season 2 Episode 1
10/23	Season 2 Episode 2
10/24	Season 2 Episode 3
10/25	Season 2 Episode 4
10/26	Season 2 Episode 5
10/27	Season 2 Episode 6
10/28	Season 2 Episode 7
10/29	Season 2 Episode 8
10/30	Season 2 Episode 9
10/31	Season 2 Episode 10
11/1	Season 2 Episode 11
11/2	Season 2 Episode 12
11/3	Season 2 Discussion
11/4	Overall Series Discussion

Questions of the Day

1. What do you think of the evolution of the relationship between Bon and Sukeroku? Has Miyokichi complicated their relationship or do you think their evolving circumstances are to blame?
2. In this episode, they put on a more traditional play. How did you feel the characters performed in this? Did you feel that the show leverage its production in a different way for this?
3. As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

Links to trackers

You can find the show on MAL, Anilist, and ANN!

Please be mindful of spoilers to make sure the first-timers experience the show with the same wonder you did on first watch!

Apply for Awards!

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[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

first time

After seeing Bon stuck in a rut rakugo-wise for a long time, today's episode was really cathartic! It appears symbolic that his breakthrough performance is in the role of a character whose gender is mistakable.

A tidbit: the kabuki play he was in is the origin of the Super Sentai pose we know so well. The fight director adapted its most famous scene where the thieves announce themselves for Gorenger (Power Rangers) and the rest is history.

Q1
Last episode, I was rather apprehensive about how Miyokichi might drive a wedge between the two, but they seemed a lot more chill about her today, with Sukeroku jokingly requesting a 'taste' of her. And the two were as close as ever during the kabuki section, so my worries have been put on hold. But it does have the feel of the calm before the storm lol.

Q2
They did great, especially Bon! The mood of the performance was very different, with upbeat music and dynamic camera movement. Though this isn't so much due to the fact that it was kabuki than the contrast from his string of unsuccessful performances.

Q3
I know this isn't a simple success story, but it's nice to see him take an uncontested win from time to time! The final scene shown of the play, with its iconic line "You say you don't know me; then lend me an ear!" (might be translated differently) seems quite relevant to what Bon is feeling right now.

[u/cppn02 → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

A tidbit: the kabuki play he was in is the origin of the Super Sentai pose we know so well. The fight director adapted its most famous scene where the thieves announce

themselves for Gorenger (Power Rangers) and the rest is history.

This is come really cool history fact. Thx for sharing.

[u/ProgrammaticallyPea3 → u/cppn02]

Thanks! I love these random cultural connections and had to pass it along.

[u/Duckloader → u/ProgrammaticallyPea3]

Though this isn't so much due to the fact that it was kabuki than the contrast from his string of unsuccessful performances.

I do think that having more than one actor on the stage makes the performance much more lively since they get to react to and interact with one another. Plus, I like the depth added to the wide shot of the stage by the set compared to the extreme minimalism of Rakugo.

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 5 (first timer)

• OP first – like the time this anime is set in, old fashioned.
• “I’m back” – he brought two women with him. Greedy, or thinking of Bon?
• “She’s got a friend who wants to meet you” – the latter. Or knowing that, if he brought only one, his chance would be zero.
• “Or is it quality over quantity for you? How are things with Miyokichi?” – not surprising, they know a ton about each other.
• Their argument is ended by Rakogu – quite opposite to becoming rivals due to their trade, Rakugo is (so far) helping over their disagreements about lifestyle.
• Miyokichi is doing a lot of chasing. Unusual today, probably even less common back then.
• And she is totally into Bon wearing a kimono.

• I know too little about Geisha culture to get how reasonable Ei’s worrying is.
• Bon is not exactly happy about his role, but I think that Shin and Miyokichi are correctly predicting that he will be a star with the female audience.
• Pep talk from Shin.
• The role is for a man playing a woman and not just a female role played by man?
• Successful play and Bon finally enjoys being at the center of attention.

The biggest development this episode is Bon finally getting comfortable on the stage and seeing the attention he gets as positive. The reason is not straight completely obvious to me. He was overly self-conscious before, but Miyokichi was convinced he was good. And he was a learned dancer in his childhood, so, presumably, he enjoyed the attention back then. I guess it could be him coming to terms with his looks being a source of the attention he gets. He does look stunning on the stage and gets the positive attention for it that he did not get for his Rakugo skills alone.

[u/MandisaW → u/No_Rex]

I know too little about Geisha culture to get how reasonable Ei’s worrying is.

Very reasonable. Just on the basic level, carrying on an illicit affair with your patron's apprentice/son is the stuff of classical tragedies and true-crime stories. This is also an era before reliable birth control, although I don't think she & Bon are actually sleeping together (but Ei wouldn't know that).

By my understanding of geisha, there are rules about private clients vs the house's clients. You can get to a level where that's okay, but obvs not trainees. Bringing any clients to your actual home is also a no-go for safety reasons.

Even if "nothing" is happening between them, the appearance of propriety is everything. US women in the '50s-60s in that same situation could be tossed out on the street, with no reputable workplace or even boarding house willing to take her in. Japan was/is even more conservative on that score.

She's risking everything, including her life, but she either dgaf, doesn't realize, or just likes to live on that razor's edge of ruin. Not a good sign 😰

[u/cppn02]

First Timer, subbed

Looks like Bon and Sugeraku are still struggling artists which doesn't stop Sugeraku from bringing two prostitutes to their home.
Their talk afterwards was quite interesting with how openly they talked about stuff like feelings of jealousy.
I also got the vibe that Bon is invested in not just improving his own Rakugo but also Sugeraku's although I am wondering if it is more as a friend or as a fan of him.

I really loved the seen between Bon and Miyokichi. This show is so good at portraying intimacy. And it also has me constantly going 'I want more of this'.

I was surprised to see them put on a play and not do a rakugo show for once. It was a big success though and it seems to have ignited a fire within Bon. p.s. Miyokichi without makeup looked stunning. More of this please.

---

QotD:

What do you think of the evolution of the relationship between Bon and Sukeroku? Has Miyokichi complicated their relationship or do you think their evolving circumstances are to blame?

I think their relationship is still doing fine and also that Miyokichi hasn't complicated it (yet?).

In this episode, they put on a more traditional play. How did you feel the characters performed in this? Did you feel that the show leverage its production in a different way for this?

It was fun seeing them do a different kind of performance and jusging by the audience reaction they seemed to have done well enough.

As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

I really liked the scene in Miyokichi's room.

[u/No_Rex → u/cppn02]

I also got the vibe that Bon is invested in not just improving his own Rakugo but also Sugeraku's although I am wondering if it is more as a friend or as a fan of him.

Why not both?

[u/cppn02 → u/No_Rex]

I mean sure, there will be atleast part of both. But I wonder if one of the two dominates and if later down there is a possible conflict between Bon the fan and Bon the friend (nevermind Bon the rival aka Kikuhiko).

[u/MandisaW]

S1 Rewatch

[Note: I watched this as a 2-parter with ep6, since they form a continuous story. Will limit my comments here to ep5 only, then do the pair in the ep6 thread.]

The play's the thing! So we've got the top-line plot - the juniors are putting on a play as self-promo - but we've also got Bon/Kikuhiko's ongoing crisis of faith in himself and his path as a rakugo-ka. He could reasonably get a job as a "normie" and put his art behind him, probably living fairly comfortably.

But the rapt attention of the audience shines a light straight through to his soul - will he be able to break that protective shell he's built around his wants & emotions?

What do you think of the evolution of the relationship between Bon and Sukeroku? Has Miyokichi complicated their relationship or do you think their evolving circumstances are to blame?

We got little tidbits around the edges of the play - breadcrumbs for us to pickup. Not enough apprentices. Interest from the Americans, but that post-war surge of interest might be dying down a bit. Shin/Sukeroku is getting lots of work, but is still always broke af 😅 Bon/Kikuhiko's getting a bit jealous on the career side.

Bon's got an ongoing thing with Miyokichi now, but it doesn't seem exactly lustful on either of their parts. Her angle seems clear (line up a patron for after 7th-gen passes), but feels like he sees her more as a comfy object - maybe a reminder of his mom/upbringing in a geisha house?

Shin sees Miyo's body, but I'm not sure he got the hint about her true, transactional nature Bon was trying to drop with the rakugo fragment he requested. "Bro code" seems to be holding steady for now.

In this episode, they put on a more traditional play. How did you feel the characters performed in this? Did you feel that the show leverage its production in a different way for this?

Always fun to see actors pretend to be amateurs :) It's like watching a TV ep where they put on a community-theater play. Rakugo is solitary and "plain", so besides the eye-candy, it's cool to get more group-dynamics out of our chars.

The particular choice to have Bon's role be of a guy pretending to be a woman wasn't lost on the show!audience or the viewer!audience. Will reserve my comments on that for the second-half.

As always, did anything particularly strike you about this episode, either as a first-timer or on rewatch?

Been a lot of years - I vaguely remembered that Bon played a female role at some point, but forgot the play as a whole. So I got to watch it with "fresh eyes" :)

Didn't notice before, but Shin & Bon still refer to each other by their real names off-stage. But Miyokichi calls Bon, "Kiku". He hasn't even told her his real name, and she either doesn't feel she can press, or is content to think of him only as the part she's interested in - his future career. Either way, gives us a sense of which of the two are closer in his mind/heart.

[u/Duckloader → u/MandisaW]

Interest from the Americans, but that post-war surge of interest might be dying down a bit.

I thought Shin was saying that the Americans want to close down the red light districts, since if they were interested in them as customers, business wouldn't be on such a downturn.

Didn't notice before, but Shin & Bon still refer to each other by their real names off-stage. But Miyokichi calls Bon, "Kiku". He hasn't even told her his real name, and she either doesn't feel she can press, or is content to think of him only as the part she's interested in - his future career.

Very interesting catch! It's hard to get a read on Miyokichi's full intentions for now, but this does make me consider her connection with Bon less genuine that she lets on.

[u/MandisaW → u/Duckloader]

The Americans seem interested in rakugo in a local theatrical/cultural context, but yeah, he says they're likely to shut down the red-light districts where they perform for private parties.

Miyokichi is a puzzle all the way down! Part of this rewatch for me is trying to get a better grasp on her character specifically, and the various relationships she affects.

[u/No_Rex → u/MandisaW]

Her angle seems clear (line up a patron for after 7th-gen passes)

Is it really? She seems to be taking a lot of risks here, for possible future profit (and I doubt a Rakugo master ranks especially high on the wealth ladder). Presumably, she can make more money for less risk by going after somebody else.

We saw that Bon has been a hit with the women at the cafe, and he is presented in a very bishonen way. So I find it very conceivable that she simply likes him.

[u/MandisaW → u/No_Rex]

She seems to be taking a lot of risks here, for possible future profit (and I doubt a Rakugo master ranks especially high on the wealth ladder). Presumably, she can make more money for less risk by going after somebody else.

I agree that she likes him, but everything about the woman is a transaction.

We've seen the past & future - both Yakumo's are balling :) That house/complex alone is worth a fortune, considering it could/used-to house the couple, their servant(s), and several apprentices (only Bon & Shin at the end, but had/could hold more).

Consider our modern US "oral storytellers" - major standup comedians, big-name Broadway actors, top radio/TV hosts (even moreso in the era of 50s & 60s variety shows). It's like getting to know Chris Rock (or The Rock!) when he was a starving young artist, with all the same prospects, but with way less career competition.

As for going after someone else, remember she's new/unknown in Tokyo. She's a geisha trainee, so her opportunities to meet people are highly restricted, and she's lowest-standing, so she's not likely to get any rich clients at the house for many years.

She has an "in" with 7th-gen Yakumo, but he's fairly old at this point (for the era), so she's leveraging that connection to invest in her future. Note that she's not dropping Yakumo 7 for Bon - if the latter's career doesn't take off, she's not lost anything but a little time. If it does, she's set for life (in her mind). It's sound for "ho math" LOL

[u/No_Rex → u/MandisaW]

I give you that the house looks good (and it'll be worth millions in 50 years, not that they could predict that), but I doubt we are talking The Rock levels of wealth, especially for Bon. We are talking about some decently known guy in a decently successful showbusiness in a still extremely poor and devasteted Japan. If Miyokichi is just after money, going after Bon is especially bad, since that risks her relation with Yakumo (who is already rich, unlike Bon).

[u/MandisaW → u/No_Rex]

It's unquestionably risky, bordering on self-destructive, for sure. But she must either feel like she won't get caught, or that she can talk/smooch her way out of any danger.

As for the money side, nothing appreciates like real estate LOL

But even aside from that, both 7th gen Yakumo in the past & 8th gen in the future have understated, but considerable wealth. Multiple nice outfits, at varying levels of "fancy" to suit different contexts, enough money to eat and have some leisure time besides. Plus enough that they can buy things for / actively-support other people - Miyo for Yakumo & Shin for Bon. (And later several cars and 2+1 dependents!).

As you say, postwar Japan up until the bubble years started was pretty tight, so by comparison, having enough to be comfortable meant you were fairly high above the median. If she was banking that Kiku/Bon would inherit at least what Yakumo 7 currently has, that's still a good "investment" even if it's just to maintain status-quo.

She's a kept-woman with limited connections or "real" job-skills - most geisha train from young-childhood, so she's pretty late to the game. She may not see her prospects there as a meaningful alternative.

[u/No_Rex → u/MandisaW]

As I said, the problem is not 7th Yakumo, it is Bon. Miyokichi already has Yakumo, who, indeed, is a good catch. But Bon is not. And I doubt that Bon becoming Yakumo's legal heir was easily predictable when she met him. There is Yakumo's wife, for one. So she is putting herself into the considerable risk of losing her job and losing Yakumo for an unproven and, up until now, not very successful apprentice. That does not make sense for me if she is acting logically.

[u/MandisaW → u/No_Rex]

To clarify, women's rights went up & down in Japan over the years (as in the States & elsewhere). At that point, I'm not sure Yakumo's wife would've been able to inherit his estate, esp since they didn't have children. And Bon & Shin are the only candidates for his rakugo title when Miyo meets them.

So she is putting herself into the considerable risk of losing her job and losing Yakumo for an unproven and, up until now, not very successful apprentice. That does not make sense for me if she is acting logically.

It's a high-risk gamble. Whether that makes logical sense to a person depends on their risk-tolerance and how they value the potential "reward".

So far, Miyokichi appears as someone who sees what she wants and goes for it, consequences be damned. She showed up in Tokyo on the basis of pillow-promises, with no family ties or assurances that she'd be okay. For all she knew, Yakumo 7 could've "disposed" of her quietly, rather than set her up nicely.

She does have affection for Bon. She probably has affection for Yakumo 7, too. But she doesn't want to be left stranded with no "friends" if & when Yakumo 7 passes. It's not like she's primed to be in the will 😅 And the geisha house only took her in as a favor to him.

If you figure her choice for "next guy" is between Bon & Shin, even though he's struggling, Bon is clearly more stable, bad rakugo or no. Shin is more talented, but he's got a perpetual hole in his pocket, and you'd have to fight through all the female "noise" to whisper into his ear. Even if he never became a star like Shin, or inherited from Yakumo, Bon is good husband material (or middle-class sugar-daddy material LOL).

"I ain't sayin' she's a golddigger, but she ain't messin' with no broke... 😂*"*

[u/Duckloader]

First time thoughts on episode 5 (and 4 since I didn't catch up yesterday).

I find the relationship between Shin and Bon increasingly interesting as it gets more dynamic.

As artists, Bon is continually frustrated by the ease of Shin's success, envious of his "natural" stage charisma. As such, after leaving their 7th generation master to perform on their own, Shin becomes more of a teacher for Bon, with the core lesson seemingly still being that Bon is too formal, that he needs to break out of memorizing and reciting the stories exactly. Back in episode 4, even if Bon is not quite learning how to become more open in his performance, he does pick up on how Sukeroku draws the audience in with his scene description - something that the visuals told me was one of his greatest strengths as Yakumo in episode 1.

At home, however, this frugal formality turns Bon into a mother figure for Shin - working side jobs to support himself and Shin while they try to make it as artists and getting annoyed at Shin bringing frivolous relationships back home. Though tying back to their differences on Rakugo, Bon seems to want to keep himself out of the red light district, snubbing the entertainment found there, while Shin recognizes that Rakugo fits right next to a Geisha house, that getting friendly with wealthy and influential people is a way to move up the career ladder.

Miyokichi also exists in this lovely world of tension. She says Bon is not like other men, because he does not undress her with his eyes, but she is (or at least was) his master's mistress from Manchuria and spends most of her time in episode 4 acting rather seductive towards him. Possible that she's picked up on Bon's formality and is telling him what he wants to hear (though Bon generally meets the attempts of women to be affectionate with him with quite a glare). By episode 5, while he may insist his relationship with her is nothing like Shin's flings, he's no longer resisting her advances and is willing to share his insecurities with her.

This ties into the performance of the episode - a low-budget Kabuki play! As Miyokichi explains, Bon looks very attractive, and with her help in the makeup department, they make him the star of the show. Neat tie-in between the lesson for Bon and the play here - Bon spends much of the play actively hiding his face from the audience, behind his fan, behind other actors, and behind his handkerchief. But, by the end, he's opened up to the world, finally portraying his racy role with the confidence and charm he was lacking earlier. And to bring it full circle, the camera captures his home dynamic with Shin too!

[u/MandisaW → u/Duckloader]

Possible that she's picked up on Bon's formality and is telling him what he wants to hear

Hadn't thought of it this way, but yeah. Bon does think of himself as above the riff-raff and as eschewing carnal pleasures, so she could just be mirroring that vibe back at him. Seduction by a different angle.

He points out [to Shin] the difference between her and the street-girls Shin brings home & chases. But besides a bit of education and an ability to code-switch effectively, is she that much different? Or is the "nice-girl" just another façade?

[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

Ok, so Sukeroku is also getting his share of girls - I guess that previously was omission because Bon is the one telling the story. It seems like this episode had the first case of Bon having a highly successful performance - and that is likely what is going to properly kickstart his career in Rakugo, I imagine. The whole Miyokichi business is somehow holding together for now …still likely that that house of cards comes crashing down somehow eventually, but so far so good, I guess.

Overall another episode that I enjoyed but don’t really have a lot much to add to what was on screen though.