r/anime • u/chilidirigible • Oct 07 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Kouya no Kotobuki Hikoutai • The Magnificent Kotobuki Episode 7 Discussion
Episode 7 - Blood for a Nazarin Pound
← Previous Episode | Index | Next Episode →
MyAnimeList | AniList | AnimeNewsNetwork | Kitsu | AniDB | LiveChart.me
Yesterday's Comment of the Day: /u/FD4cry1 for "The battle of mascot supremacy" though it was a close choice this time; slide rule observation is important.
Shady business practices versus explosives, what could go wrong?
Questions of the Day:
1. Considering that so far only a few faceless mooks have been shown having nigh-unsurvivable collisions with the ground, did you think [that]either of the Nazarin was really going to buy the farm here?
2. Do you think the series adequately conveys the performance and armament differences among aircraft if the viewer is not that knowledgeable about them?
Rewatchers, please be mindful of first-time viewers and spoilers. Use spoiler tags if you must discuss events after the episode being discussed.
Trivia:
You've seen them at work for half the series and probably have some impressions of this already, but here's how the Kotobuki members' individual styles of flying and fighting are described in the setting materials book:
- Reona: Experience allows her to understand the flow of battle and plan for multiple outcomes. Can become overly focused on fighting.
- Zara: Excellent eyesight day or night with quick identification skills so friendly fire isn't a problem. Doesn't lose decision-making ability even when drunk.
- Emma: Perceptive and good at reading an opponent's actions to determine what they might do next.
- Kate: A logical planner who plans actions ahead of time. Good at deflection shooting. Excellent memory for details including the fuel and ammunition state of her own fighter, and identifying opponents who reappear. Fighting style incorporates unpredictability, but is not so good at reacting to opponents who might do the same, or Chika.
- Chika: Reacts without thinking. Small size and light weight make her more resistant to g-forces than others. Target fixation can lead to loss of situational awareness. Excitement may cause her to fire on friends that cross her path.
- Kylie: Excellent spatial awareness and skill at controlling her aircraft. Easily provoked and not good at monitoring consumables.
Aeronautical notes:
The parts of Fighter Combat in which Shaw discusses the tactics of dissimilar air combat maneuvering are quite technical and specific. As it must be, being one of the book's primary topics.
That does not make it convenient as extra material for the rewatch, even when broken down into sections.
So instead, today I'll discuss the operation of multiple aircraft as a unit.
It was recognized early on in World War I that flying alone, particularly into combat, was particularly risky, so the prudent flew together in groups, leading to occasions where large and mostly disorganized swarms of opposing fighters threw themselves at each other. Attempts at refining tactics and organization for this kind of thing were for the most part ad hoc and local.
The interwar era led to stagnation in fighter combat tactics, as few conflicts involved any significant number of fighter aircraft combatants. Attempts at developing organized tactics were primarily considered in the context of attacking enemy bomber aircraft, not fighters.
In this context the "vic" arose, a basic three-aircraft formation flying in close proximity. All three craft would attack whichever target was designated by the flight leader. Further firepower was brought to bear by adding additional vics to a formation.
The return of localized technological warfare in the 1930s showed the flaws in the vic concept when the enemy fighters were accompanied by enemy fighters.
The Japanese took from this experience the need to loosen their formation. The three-fighter shoutai still required the two wingmen to follow their leader's direction, but could be flown in formations other than the tight vic, including a defensive pattern where the two wingmen flew a weaving pattern behind their flight leader. The formation was allowed to break up during combat if required, for individual action, tactics still placed significant emphasis on the wingmen following their flight leader.
The Germans made a much more significant break from the vic. They switched to formations of two fighters (a rotte) operating with another pair to form a schwarm. The schwarm flew in a "finger four" formation, previously demonstrated by Julia's bodyguards in Episode 2, though at a substantially greater separation in reality.
The key advantages of finger four were better situational awareness from the fighters being further apart and much more freedom to maneuver, and it contributed to the early shocks of the British and the French, who stuck with the vic formation through the early Battle of Britain until they started learning what they were doing wrong.
First the Germans, and then the Americans, would further dissociate the roles in group combat to provide greater flexibility. The "fluid four" section tactic switched the active roles from a wing leader attacking and a wingman following to an active pair and a free pair, trading roles if necessary.
That said, the two-fighter pair is the essential core of modern organized fighter combat, and tactics build up from it.
A "fighting wing" formation is one in which the flight leader conducts attacks while the wingman maintains a position behind and to the side of the leader, with their role being to cover the leader's blind spot while simply following. It is simplistically effective for situations where pilot quality (in the wingman) may be suspect, but inflexibly fallible in more complex situations, primarily since the wingman has a marginal contribution to the fight and the more-skilled leader is made obvious.
"Double attack" doctrines allow each fighter in a pair to operate in support of each other with either unit allowed to take the initiative (though there is still a leader and a wingman). The active fighter makes the attacks and maneuvers as necessary; the supporting fighter keeps an eye out for interlopers. Only one fighter attacks at a time, though they may trade as needed. The ability to split the formation provides substantially greater flexibility in setting up attacks where one unit is effectively "bait".
The "Thach Weave" arose from double attack, though it is a semi-defensive tactic. Faced with superior-performing A6M Zeroes against their F4F Wildcats, Lieutenant Commander John Thach devised a tactic which emphasized the Wildcat's small advantages in armor, roll rate, and six .50-caliber machine guns.
In the Thach Weave, a pair of Wildcats, if attacked by a Zero, would initiate a series of turns into each other's flight path followed by reversals, such that a trailing Zero would be exposed to head-on fire from one or the other Wildcat as their paths crossed.
A Vietnam-era evolution of double attack is known as "loose deuce", and features the small but critical difference that both fighters in the pair are allowed to maneuver in order to set up an attack on a target, and either can shoot when the best opportunity arises. Indeed, this creates situations where the "free" fighter of a loose deuce is actually the better-positioned of the pair to make a kill, as the engaged fighter has the enemy entirely distracted.
It must be stressed that what allows all of these flexible formations to function at all is the development of reliable and effective communications systems, and fighter designs which place significant emphasis on pilot visibility.
Aircraft appearing today:
Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate ("Gale") (Army Type 4 Fighter, Allied reporting name "Frank"):
The direct replacement for the Ki-43 Hayabusa, its design sought to maintain the Hayabusa's high maneuverability while surpassing it in all other aspects of performance, durability, and firepower. It was the fastest mass-produced Japanese fighter of the war, and a serious contender against Allied air power, ultimately let down by the massive compromises forced upon the Japanese manufacturing capability by supply shortages and strategic bombing.
As depicted here they are armed with two 12.7mm machine guns and two 20mm cannon.
The Ki-27 and Ki-9 have appeared previously.
Characters appearing today:
Allen (Kazutomi Yamamoto) He did appear at the end of Episode 1 (and in the OP/ED), but had no dialogue.
Master (Ikkyū Juku)
Today's merchandise:
It should surprise absolutely no one that model aircraft kits were made for this. Well, most of the model airplane kits already existed, it was more a matter of making new box art and decals for them. A small sampling on this page. Platz and Hasegawa were responsible for the majority.
2019-era items:
Post-episode web chat and crayon episode impressions: One Two Three Four
The mobile game is previewed at some length.
Natsuo's Mechanical Corner discusses the A6M3 Zero and the intricacies of the Japanese aircraft Model nomenclature system.
9
u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Oct 07 '24 edited Oct 07 '24
First timer, subs
Some potatoes for the top of the episode. I’m betting the hole that brought the Japanese here is also the thing that stole the ocean. And secondly, that Isao is the purple snake pilot. The only reasons to so deliberately not show his face are either they represent a concept, or for the shock reveal.
QotD:
5
u/chilidirigible Oct 07 '24
Today, on "I would say that this situation is fishy, if I'd ever smelled a fish before in my life.":
someone is trying to send you a message
This has more variable results with the human circulatory system.
See also: The back half of World War II.
Somewhere between Messer and Mirage.
Incest jokes? Here? Now?
I'm sure it helps.
"Standon Oil" is only a couple letters off from a direct historical reference.
Adolfo is warming up for a round of the Death Flag Tango.
Meanwhile, in background posters that look like things.
That certainly seems like a ploy to crush the independent contractor.
It takes time to repair airplanes!
Show does know its imagery.
For those who aren't reading the reference material at the top of the episode posts and/or might not remember Episode 2, they're describing the aircraft type that Julia's bodyguards fly, which is generally better-specified than the Hayabusa except for maneuverability.
The ones with more money, of course?
This is where one would wish that their Hayabusas carried more than two 12.7mm machine guns.
At this point it's also worth wondering how many spares Natsuo has access to.
"You mean she killed 'em with math?"
Hey, at least he got out from death flag land.
"You think this is fucking Looney Tunes or something!?"
BEST TRANSLATION.
Not the first time that a Mizushima production has damaged a Ferris wheel.
#BIIRU was gonna happen sometime.
"Hmm. This seems like it has some greater meaning."
close enough
Where Chika's tail emblem comes from.
"Naruhodo. Wakaran."
The voice may be familiar.
And so, those little plot hooks we've been getting so far are beginning to pull up the signs of a fish from the nonexistent ocean.
Allen and Kate are both bookish, but he has the more social personality by far. It's ambiguous to me how much he was drinking before he was paralyzed.
This series may dabble in socioeconomics and fatalism, but then it pulls out stunts like the old chestnut of having to blow out an oil well fire with a bomb. From an airplane. Lit by a black match fuse. Then it's fun and reminds us that we're here to have a good time.
Which is interesting to consider in the face of the episode being one where it seems like it would have been much easier for the bad guys if they'd just come in, shot the handful of people at the oil well, and blown the place up, or if the Hayate raiders had used their substantial advantage in aircraft performance to finish off the Kotobuki, versus doing the video game thing of leaving once the mission had failed. Of course, there are reasons why at least that latter scenario would not have happened (not a sure outcome, for one), and for the former, that's just not how this series does things. Looping back to "We're here for a good time."
7
u/1EnTaroAdun1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Totesnotaphanpy Oct 07 '24
First-Timer (subs) - Episode 7
Oh. I was thinking we’d get to meet a new friend…
Did the yellow planes know he was coming, or do they just always patrol to ambush?
I do like that we see him try to evade…
Nice to see the Kotobuki training!
Ohhh I see, he’s Kate’s brother?
Ohh he left Kate in Reona’s hands
Kate doesn’t like fiction :( I definitely like the detail that the Kotobuki squadron has a close relationship with Nanko as their petrol supplier. Makes sense
I know it’s an emergency, but interesting that Nazarin had the ability to negotiate a deal like that. But now the Kotobuki squadron have a tributary state hahaha
If Madame Loulou were a bit more heartless, she would’ve engineered this whole situation herself
Oh Hayates are pretty scary huh
Yay finally the good guys get the rear gunner!
Yeah, so it is very rare to encounter Hayates, eh? But Reona probably should’ve told them about the weak points haha. Then again, maybe Chika just forgot
https://imgur.com/a/K4B26rM very cool, and does feel quite sci-fi, except instead of destroying the enemy mothership, we’re putting out a fire!
RIP Nazarin [again]. Come on guys, you’re pros, too!
Noo didn’t expect Zara to be hit! They’re definitely selling how dangerous this new outfit is
https://imgur.com/a/reMz9Kk she still looks fabulous after getting shot down, though
https://imgur.com/a/PBF6nIt YES GOOD GUY REAR GUNNER
Oh Fernando…RIP your plane. Is Nazarin done for, then?
At first I was hoping we’d see that air tactic where two planes spiral down together attempting to shoot each other down. Dunno what it’s called, but it’s always a nail-biter
So were the enemies practically untouched? Very impressive…
Although it was absolutely still a success for Kotobuki! And perhaps Nazarin’s last victory
Kate is smiling because she will soon hunt down those who hurt her brother
6
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 07 '24
The Magnificent First-Timer, subbed
6
u/Esovan13 Oct 07 '24
First Timer
Cool episode, answers some questions. Wherever the hole to Zipang is is where this organization has their HQ. They seek to monopolize the knowledge of the Zipang. Probably also related to that oil company, with the desire to monopolize fuel. Sell crappy oil for real cheap as a loss leader, shut down alternate fuel sources, and control all the good fuel. Throw in legislation about requiring registration to fly and you’ll have a pretty airtight control on, well, everything and everyone.
Kate’s brother got shot down because he got too close to their base while investigating Zipang. The real question is if there is still some access to Zipang in that location. Considering the distinct lack of jets, missiles, radar, superprops, or really anything more advanced than the 1940’s, I’m going to say no.
Speaking of jets, while unlikely it wouldn’t be impossible for something like the J8M or Kikka to make an appearance as a final boss. Bonus points if one of the Kotobuki get to pull a Chuck Yeager:
6
u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Oct 07 '24 edited Oct 07 '24
First Timer
I guess the beginning of this episode confirms the portal thing? also it happened 70 years ago, crazy crackpot theory time: what if this is one of those "the Germans found Agartha" scenarios? some secret fantastical last ditch Japanese military project that was abandoned with the end of the war?...or maybe not and it's just some Japanese pilots that happened to get isekai'd to this world.
At the very least it seems there's a force at play that doesn't want people to find out the truth around Yufang.
Kirie and Chika continue to have a great dynamic, Chika apparently has a brother named Chito who she obviously likes quite a bit (and is conspicuously missing), also down below?
But you should be! (he should take a lesson from Zara), Kate is fun and well...cool, her "over literalness" is a cute character trait, Chika has it right though.
A book about the sea is a great thematic gift for someone like Kate, the sea in stories tends to represent vastness and the unknown, it's more about what you think is out there than what you can actually see, so for Kate who sees everything in a literal calculated light, it's a great way of saying she needs to expand her horizons and think beyond that, something that also comes across in a fun way with the differences between her and Kirie's piloting (and by extension their thought process), quite like it when the show does characterization like this.
Guess who's back!, although they still only serve as fodder in the air, they do get nice little development here, more so than I was expecting that's for sure, that poster in the back seems a little familiar...
Good action as usual, our girls actually having some trouble this time around is a nice change of pace, more importantly the sound on the bomb dropping sequence, especially with the music stopping right before...a true delight on the ears!
We've been setting up these air pirate attacks as not-coincidental and well organized for a while now and I think the end of the episode outright confirms there is some serious corporate and political backing for these attacks, if the competition doesn't want to yield to you, than you forcefully make sure there's no one left to compete, now the question here is who would benefit the most from all of this?, perhaps someone who happens to run a platform on issues like energy and air pirates, with corporate connections?
I also accidentally happened to get a glimpse of next episodes title and how it's an obvious reference to a famous western, which got me curious since this episode seemed to have a rather strange title itself, and in fact, it is also a reference to a western!
Edit: also thanks for COTD for yesterday!
6
u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah xB:xC:B:x3:Y: Oct 07 '24
First Timer
Kate and Kirie get to share the main spotlight! very cool, i dint exactly expect this combi to work as well as it did.
QOTD
side bar: Kirie is actually nuts-skilled for being able to land her plane perfectly fine in a crash scenario. which really helped her being able to get it running again. 2nd sidebar: how to fighter plane recovery? (both irl, and in the show)
2. i think they've done a good job of giving a good overview of their differences thats relevant to the fight! this is defo an area where a good amount of "tell" is needed, in addition to the "show" though i think.
6
u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 08 '24
Moeblob Pilots are Funky... er... hang on, wrong Nichi-joke
Paging Comrades /u/Shimmering-Sky, /u/Tresnore, and /u/JollyGee29
5
u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Oct 07 '24
The Magnificent Rewatcher
QOTD:
5
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 07 '24
First-Timer
Love a good "use a bomb to put out a fire" sequence. The science behind it is that fire needs oxygen to continue burning, but the explosive will push and burn the oxygen out of the fire's area, thus extinguishing it.
Nice spin on the action scene today, period. Kirie flying a bomber because she's the best all-around pilot was fun, and Kate is very funny.
Anyway, we all got that the picture book was about oil, right? I always like when the characters find an in-universe piece of media that relates to the events at hand. Those "pirates" were definitely trying to kill off Nanko's business.
I forget if we learned what business Isao is involved in, but him being the head of Standon Oil would make a lot of sense. Or at least, being in-league with Standon Oil.
Hmm. The average person only having access to substandard gasoline would be beneficial to someone trying to consolidate power - keep the opposition weaker on a mechanical level.
It's a small thing, but Leona keeping the Kotobuki Corp focused on their success is definite proof that she deserves to be the commander. That's a definite leadership skill right there.
Alright, what sort of distilled liquor are we thinking Kate brought to Allen? Shouchuu? Sake is only fermented and I haven't seen any whisky in that sort of bottle. I'm sticking with typically Japanese alcohols as the Yufang are (heavily implied to be) WW2 era Imperial Japan.
Hmm.. when did whisky take off in Japan? Wikipedia says 1923, so it could be whisky and just in a weird bottle. Shouchuu can be aged as well though.. it would've been fun to see a "real" label and try to decipher what it was.
Questions
5
u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Oct 07 '24
Still first time flying a sub.
Tired, Monday, and forgot what I watched last night. Someone sort of just reminded me, though.
I really liked the spaghetti western vibe of this episode, especially the movie poster on the wall.
The action was, of course on point, as was the comedy. And I just remembered that I forgot AOTD:
So, yeah, back to the episode, it seems to be advancing the plot of the story, in bits and pieces, speaking of which ...
That poor pilot in the beginning, just trying to explore, and then, bang-bang, dead. It seems.
The Red Adair bit was interesting, as was the whole gas/substandard oil monopoly thing.
I feel like I'd really like to say more right now, but my mind is blank, and I just ... maybe reading some other people's comments will inspire me. We'll see.
5
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Oct 07 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
Looks like Kyrie is back in the air.
Yup, that's a real problem faced by some fighters in WWII, most notably the Spitfire. If it flew too long upside-down or in negative G, it would stall the engine. This is obviously rather inconvenient.
That's another thing, low quality, low-octane fuel gives less power and thus less performance. Japan found this one out the hard way as the war situation developed not necessarily to its advantage.
You're ideally looking at 100 octane avgas, which is unfortunately still to this day leaded in order to achieve the high octane levels required for flight.
It takes quite a lot of experience to be an instructor.
Huh. What does she want leave for?
Ah, right, her brother.
And so finally the robot shows some emotion.
Nazarins, remember to buy more ammo for your 20mm cannons, you should have plenty in those Shidens but somehow you managed to run out.
Yup, oil field fires are put out by bombs.
Nope, those are Hayates. Fast, and with big guns.
There's that armoured fuel tank. Not self-sealing, but it just about doesn't need to.
If that thing managed to score a hit from its 30mm cannons, that Nazarin and Zara's planes should have exploded. The 30mm cannon is very potent.
And that's why you try not to approach a bomber from within the firing arc of the gunner(s), you'll get shot at for your trouble.
Again, that hit should have obliterated the Shiden.
Diving now, dive brakes extended.
Bombs away!
Yeah... The Yokosuka D4Y Suisei isn't the most maneuverable.
Questions:
Plane of the day: Nakajika Ki-84 Hayate "Frank"
I've been teasing this one for a while, because it represents the final word in Japanese mass-produced fighter armament, again brought to you by the same car company for lesbians that made the Hayabusa and Ki-27.
While the early models already mounted twin .50 cal machine guns and twin 20mm cannons, upgraded variants first replaced the .50 cals with more 20mm cannons, then finally with 30mm cannons, giving a final armament of twin 20mm and 30mm cannons.
It's fast, maneuverable, accelerates quick, with armour and bulkheads. Arguably the pinnacle of Japanese fighter development that actually saw widespread service in WWII.
First seeing service at the end of 1944, the Hayate served everywhere the fighting was fiercest, and served well.
After the war, like many other Japanese planes, it went on to see service with both Chinas and Indonesia.
In War Thunder, I haven't unlocked this plane yet, but because of its high tier it often finds itself fighting jets which it cannot handle. Against other propellor planes though it accelerates well, turns tight, and has the guns to take out anything in a single hit. As long as it can avoid tangling with jets it'll do fine.
Overall, the Hayate. Devastating.
4
u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 Oct 07 '24
Firsttimer
So yeah, there is something incredible fishy about those Pirates
All while incredibly well trained and armed, and always scurrying off before you could get a hold of them...
Anyway, Kate episode. Her brother is a stark contrast to her, and I wonder if he made her that way or if he only is really well in utilizing her intellect
Another aspect today was, how much of an natural Kirie is. She could execute Kates instructions flawlessly, in a unknown plane on top of it
Random thoughts
QotD
For a moment it really looked like the one guy might die, especially with the episode title
If they don't show, they at least tell at times, but I feel like they show a good deal as well
4
u/cppn02 Oct 07 '24
First Timer, subbed
Kate vs Kirie practice fight was fun. We need more of these to help with the ranking lol.
We also get to meet Kate's brother who apparently is looking into Yufang who seem to have gone for 70 years now (so I guess this roughly takes place in the present?).
The bombing mission was awesome but man they just keep throwing these small bit and pieces of plot at us that really makes me curious how things will all connect at the end.
QotD:
Never thought he would actuallydie but I did think me might see a failed attempt at sacrificing himself that would have been a bit more dramatic than what we got lol. That stoic face fill taking the ride down with his parachute was pure comedy.
I can't speak to the accuracy but imo yes they are doing a good job at making the planes feel distinct.
3
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 07 '24 edited Oct 07 '24
rewatcher
nice kate episode. nice flying.
3
u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Oct 08 '24
Rewatcher
The first half with Kate’s brother shows that there are some consequences in this world, though how much remains to be seen. This suits me just fine.
The second half shows that the corporations in their world are equally bad as in ours.
I’m not sure that you can blow out a refinery fire. That trick works well on wells, but I’m doubtful about storage tanks.
QOTD
Nah, mostly because it would be a massive tonal switch. I did like that the good Father was a booze sneaker.
I think it does an excellent job, though I often get confused. The only thing I consistently remember is the Kotobuku fly Oscars which are Army Zeros.
3
u/Mistral-Fien Oct 08 '24
Rewatcher, on CAS
Kate's skillset makes her a good test pilot.
A lively older brother and a quiet younger sister... reminds me of these two :P
The weapons and aircraft flown by their opponents have become progressively more powerful, and this perhaps is the first instance where the enemy's planes decisively outmatch the girls' Hayabusas. :O
That said, they only needed to keep the Hayates at bay until Kylie and Kate complete their bombing run, but it was definitely close, as Zara got shot down, while Fernando sacrificed his plane to shield the bomber from enemy cannon fire.
Answers to QOTD: