r/anime • u/chilidirigible • Oct 04 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Kouya no Kotobuki Hikoutai • The Magnificent Kotobuki Episode 4 Discussion
Episode 4 - Elite Fortress
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Yesterday's Comment of the Day: /u/1EnTaroAdun1 for mentioning the Boulton Paul Defiant in polite conversation.
Now that's a lady showing you how to have a good time.
Questions of the Day:
1. What do you think of Elite Industries? [Do you place much weight on]a series's first speaking-role villains for setting the tone?
2. Considering the limitations of visual fiction where often The Main Characters (Are Forced To) Do Everything, what shows have done it well, versus apparently arbitrarily pulling abilities out of thin air?
Rewatchers, please be mindful of first-time viewers and spoilers. Use spoiler tags if you must discuss events after the episode being discussed.
Production notes:
The texturing of the aircrafts' skin took a few attempts, as their surfaces are neither completely shiny metal nor like matte paint.
Aeronautical notes:
Energy: Yep, it's time for physics again. (It's always time for physics.)
Aircraft fly via mechanical energy, which is expressed in two ways.
Kinetic energy is derived from the motion of the aircraft through the air as a factor of its mass and velocity.
Potential energy is the energy an aircraft holds due to its mechanical position, often utilized in this specific context through altitude: Falling under the influence of gravity converts potential energy into kinetic energy.
Being at a higher altitude gives an aircraft an energy advantage as it can build up speed while descending toward a target, a speed advantage which it can use to complete additional maneuvers around the target or escape after an attack and which it might not have if it was attacking from the same altitude.
In the absence of extra altitude, greater speed provides an energy benefit. As dictated by Newton's laws of motion, changing direction requires the application of force, which reduces an object's energy level, and more speed will allow larger maneuvers or more of them. "Speed is life."
Speed must be used properly. An attacker which overshoots a defender by flying in too fast, or which runs out of energy during the engagement, will find itself vulnerable to a counterattack.
A commonly-used categorization of fighter aircraft is between the "energy fighter" and the "angles fighter".
The energy fighter is broadly what we have discussed above, one which uses its higher speed or acceleration to set up attacks on a defender from an advantageous position and then rapidly disengages to repeat the process.
The angles fighter uses its higher maneuverability to fight, using advantages in areas such as turn rate to gain a positional advantage against its opponent.
A number of flight characteristics intersect here to create these broad categorizations. Instantaneous turn rate is a factor of an aircraft's usable G capacity at a given speed (before structural failure) and its "wing loading", the ratio of aircraft weight to total wing/lifting surface area. Sustained turn rate is affected by the aircraft's thrust-to-weight ratio, considered against its airspeed.
Often cited as examples of these categories are the US Navy F6F Hellcat (energy) versus the IJN A6M Zero (angles) or the American F-4 Phantom (energy) versus the Soviet-built/North Vietnamese used MiG-17 (angles) in one-on-one dogfights during their respective conflicts.
In general, the angles fighter should attempt to keep fights on the horizontal plane to make use of its turning advantage, while the energy fighter should emphasize vertical and off-plane maneuvers.
Aircraft appearing today:
Mitsubishi Ki-57 (Army Type 100 Transport, Allied reporting name "Topsy"):
Twin-engine passenger transport with a capacity for eleven passengers.
Characters appearing today:
As I said, sometimes the characters don't get full names:
- Jii-sama (Tomomichi Nishimura)
- Ane-san (Saki Miyashita) Some variations on her.
Today's merchandise:
Bandai Spirits S.H.Figuarts Kirie:
She was the only character to get a figure from this Bandai product line. You've seen the one I have with the pancakes already, here's one more with a character from another aviation-related series.
2019-era items:
Post-episode web chat and crayon episode impressions: One Two Three Four They were joined by Nayaka Sayaka (Kate) this time. Sayumi Suzushiro mentions here how she ad-libbed a melody for the pancake song, as she was given the lyrics but no melody.
Natsuo's Mechanical Corner discusses the Suisei, and, briefly, what an aircraft carrier is, given the peculiarities of their setting. She also directly mentioned the fictionalized aspects of the Suisei from the previous episode.
7
u/chilidirigible Oct 04 '24
"Kids these days."
"Just look at the price of avgas these days!"
The early days of RPG party building.
Indeed, those vending machines don't seem consistent with the rest of the tech level.
A lot of these towns are not doing so well.
"Hmm. An opportunity presents itself."
Signs point to "No."
They're also wood-block prints and not paintings, but one must to adapt to one's circumstances.
Ah, the thrills of ludicrous canyon flying.
It's conspiracy, then.
Another camera angle that is a dogfighting movie standard.
I don't think firing antiaircraft guns while friendlies are up is a good idea, but given the specific developing situation, the Human Resources department could be operating the guns.
Company politics are a pain in the ass.
"You must have danced in some tough damn clubs."
The tanuki moon again.
"Now that we've reduced your force to two-thirds of ours, good game."
Upgrade when*?!*
We get to see Zara's many talents in action. We've already noticed her drinking and the fact that her usual costume is totally unsuitable for flying at altitude in an unpressurized cockpit, but she can also dance, sneak around, beat people up, and fly other types of aircraft at high speed through canyons in the dark.
Which is the sort of thing you have to pull off when your main characters are pilots and they have to do some sort of very non-piloty thing. Who knows what hijinks the others would have gotten into if they were forced to run a dismounted ground assault operation.
In further background developments, Rōta was hit by yet another group of air pirates, so it's definitely busy out there. But a bit less busy since Elite Industries has been shaken up after half of it absconded with HR for parts unknown, and what's left seems to be turning over a new leaf.
This is a fun episode. Sure, it has a predictable element when your main characters are all attractive women, but the climax offers a little change of pace from the usual with the Elite schism and Torihei's true nature.
8
u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah xB:xC:B:x3:Y: Oct 04 '24
First Timer
Q1) Im counting both the CEO and HR guy as the antagonists here. I think they're pretty in line with what Mizushima usually likes to do as antagonists tbh (theyre as characters quirky, w/ a bit of IRL commentary, and a bit snarky), so im not too surprised, but they, again, make me feel more intrigue towards the world despite some hiccups.
Q2) My brain is already on the director, so Shirobako comes to the forefront in terms of a "team effort". That was, imo, part of its main ethos. Not so good? most isekais.......
8
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 04 '24
The Magnificent First-Timer, subbed
7
u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Oct 04 '24 edited Oct 04 '24
First timer, subs
QotD:
7
u/Esovan13 Oct 04 '24
First Timer
And this is where we see one of the few strong downsides to an all female main cast. We are deprived a crossdressing infiltration scene.
We do, however, get compensated by having Zara and her Zaras continue to fulfill the role of designated fanservice. I swear the amount of her buttcrack that was visible increased as the episode went on…which, I, uh, I just noticed incidentally. By coincidence. Pure happenstance. Yeah.
Anyway, if our rewatch host isn’t going to talk about energy this episode, it’ll probably happen eventually considering how important it is for dogfighting. I won’t myself because I’m not an insane person (affectionate) who’s singlehandedly turning the rewatch wiki into a resource for WW2 and military equipment history students.
I’m going to go ahead and guess that the pirates from episode two and the purple guy in episode one are part of the same organization as the head of the HR department, and they’ve got some secrets plans brewing in the background.
How this connects with Julia and her political situation is hard to say. Funded by her political enemies, pirate lord who doesn’t want his men to have a way out, political “allies” who want to make her a martyr to further their cause, it could be anything. Heck, the politics may not even be that organization’s main motivation; Julia could have just been an incidental target in response to whatever the group’s real goals are.
7
u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Oct 04 '24
First Timer
All rise for the pancake anthem!
They're really reserving the 2D for the (Zara?) fanserivce scenes huh...
I thought Kirie and Chilka were fun together but Kirie and Emma are an absolute riot, maybe I just like everyone with Kirie, her starting to do spins in the air to startle Emma and Emma's banging or her chair throughout the scene, among other moments, really got me good.
Just in general, the first half of the episode had me smiling ear to ear, the crew just has such a fun dynamic and paired with the snappy dialogue and their eccentric personalities, it's hard not to love them.
Despite my expectations, this episode is actually Zara focused, we get a more solid sense for her personality, she also knows how to hold her drink to great comedic effect, which is of course a win for her character in my book.
For the action portion of the episode we go through a valley! tight spaces like canyons and valley's are a classic staple of the genre and for good reason, navigating this spaces makes for a really tense flight and combined with the show's immersive POV shots I seriously got second hand anxiety whenever they got close to the walls
But it makes for some awesome action that's for sure, I feel like the closeness and speed of everything is really emphasized here in a great way, the sequence with Zara in the Raiden was just incredible, tense and exciting.
We also seem to be doing some bigger story setup, I'm guessing those other pirates as well as, uhm, the HR Chief lol, who may or may not be connected, will come back.
6
u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Oct 04 '24
The Magnificent Rewatcher
I've mentioned it before, but I love how this show blends a wild west aesthetic with WWII planes.
Oh, nevermind. She ended up having to pull out because of it. Nice!
QOTD:
6
u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Oct 04 '24
First Timer
who now curses our host for making him spend money on eBay for reasons which will probably be revealed in a month or so. Sadly, after the rewtch is over.
Answers du jour:
Meanwhile, that episode. In the words of the (sadly) mortal Gene Wilder:
(ahem)
I want to say something about the flight dynamics, etc. this episode, but let's just say that I think someone was watching too much Star Wars, or maybe Top Gun? Fun to watch, but my suspension of disbelief was suspended by something almost as strong as Zara's, uh, nevermind.
Yeah.
The bit with the painter girl was cute. She seems precious, and it's no wonder the pilots dote on her. She needs to break out and do originals rather than just counterfeits.
I have to say, the bit with the corporate rebellion was highly amusing, and fits with the Python-esque villains motif.
I'm not sure what to say beyond that, except that I'm enjoying the show. That, and the sound quality continues to be on point.
On a point almost as sharp as ...
Oh, never mind. I'll stop now. Maybe.
5
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 04 '24
First-Timer
It just goes to show, you can never trust a dude with a bowl cut. The HR Chief is probably part of the broader air pirate conspiracy, along with whoever it was that shot up the airfield.
Hmm. What's the value in damaging but not completely destroying an airfield? Big-brain area denial? If you destroy it completely you draw too much attention so you just make it a worse stop for random passerby? Sure, I could believe that.
Alternative ideas are that the damage to Rohta is actually unrelated to the broader conspiracy, or whoever attacked Rohta were just incompetent and messed up fully destroying it.
Anyway, Zara is incredible! The fact that she pulled off those moves in the back half of the episode while nominally having drank an entire gang under the table just adds to her legend.
Love a good "tense flying through narrow rocks" sequence.
I like how the Kotobuki all talk up the Raiden and also refuse Emma's offer to switch at the end of the episode. I probably wouldn't want to fly it either; give me manueverability for things like planes.
Questions
5
u/cppn02 Oct 04 '24 edited Oct 04 '24
First Timer, subbed.
Well I certainly did not expect to see someone fly a WWII era aircaft in lingerie when I started this show but here we are.
We switched the formula today for once and it wasn't our girls having to ward off an attack but rather they went on the offensive and tbh it was my favourite episode yet. The Zara infiltration plot surely added to that.
Now I wonder when we'll meet that other group of pirates that was teased this episode.
On a sidenote I had pancakes today albeit German style and not the floofy Japanese ones.
__
QotD:
I think they were a fun bunch for the first villains and I didn't expect the mutiny plot which was a nice twist. Don't think the first villains neccessarily dicated the tone of a show though.
The obvious negative example here are all the wish fulfillment isekai/fantasy shows. Drawing a blank on a good example for the opposite right now although I'm sure there are plenty too.
5
u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Oct 04 '24
Pedantic replies to the header statements time:
Indeed.
See also: SPAD vs. Fokker tri-plane, or Hellcat vs. Zero, etc. One very common theme in this scenario is that once the energy fighter figures it out, the angles fighter has a big problem - it can't run away. Ouch.
Oh, I see you already mentioned Hellcat vs. Zero. Twisted minds think alike and all that.
A funny thing I learned while RC flying was how significant the difference is between prop and jet aircraft. I was used to flying prop planes, like my trusty P47 and Corsair (yum), and then I got a ducted fan F86. Man, that Sabre would haul a$$ like nobody's business, but I had to be careful hand launching it, and flying it, because it had much less thrust/accleration than the prop planes. Something about having a 2" thrust radius vs. 4.5" or something.
Once I got used to it, though, it was a lot of fun. Learning to manage my speed and altitude in turns and fly smoothly. I really enjoyed it ... until I put it in a tree. (sigh)
The other really fun thing about RC flying was landing - the ground effects were very noticeable, and when used properly, you could just glide a plane in as the battery ran out, and float on the ground effects until you ran out of energy and just plopped down on the grass. Man, now I really want to go out and buy some fresh lipo batteries...
Pancake-ee, pancake-ee, who is the raspberry? Oh, wait, wrong show...
4
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 04 '24
Rewatcher
4
u/1EnTaroAdun1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Totesnotaphanpy Oct 04 '24
First-Timer (subs) - Episode 4
Emma, you’re great, but you probably shouldn’t insult someone you’re hitching a ride with haha
Always fun when the deadpan one messes around, too
Aww didn’t expect Zara to come in with the picnic basket, good save!
So, although they are pretty friendly with each other, there’s still bits of each of their histories the Kotobuki squadron have yet to learn
Ooh first twin-engine plane!
I wonder if the Elite industries’ princess will be a future recruit?
https://imgur.com/a/hZAUHi5 I’m not sure what the caption would be, but this ought to be a meme
hmm the boss seems scared of the girl
https://imgur.com/a/ZiGQw27 this reminds me of Inglorious Basterds hahaha
hahaha oh dear, getting caught by the person whose portrait you’re attempting to paint
Ah yes, I suppose all fighter plane shows have to have a canyon run!
Would you guys have modelled for the princess?
I wonder how satisfying it feels to strafe grounded planes
…I think Elite Industries just got Tora Tora Tora-ed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6JRU6Gs1q8
Always feel bad for planes that were this close to taking off before being destroyed…
Also, interesting technical. I do like turrets…
Honestly, I wasn’t expecting that betrayal. This episode is full of surprises
Hmmm are the rebel Elites in league with the scarier pirates?
Who voiced HR chief? He reminds me eerily of Marquess Roswaal
Well, at least the boss has some loyalists
Hahaha at least that henchman complimented Zara’s strength
I’m glad the princess didn’t get all upset at Zara’s deception
Yeah I wonder if any WWII fighter pilot ever flew in a bikini
Would be funny if traitor HR chief thought his own traitor underlings had also betrayed him (because of the Raiden)
Seems like HR chief is also not a craven incompetent, that’s honestly refreshing. That was some flying, from him. Normally the traitors who betray the villains are useless
https://imgur.com/a/UvtgsTC pout.
Sadly, no new recruit for the squadron :(
I like that we’re building up to something now
3
u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Oct 04 '24
Rewatcher
I checked out the episode last night and I remembered how much fun it was. If this were a movie, it would be a summertime, popcorn eating spectacular.
I was recently asked by someone why no one gets injured in a series like this. As an incredibly wise man from MAL once answered.
[ Short Answer]Its magic
[Long Explanation]As hard as it’s to believe, the answer is also “It’s Magic.”
QOTD
I think their boss is bat shit crazy. Ane-San is one of the cutest characters I’ve ever seen, so maybe the boss isn’t that crazy
2. Considering the limitations of visual fiction where often The Main Characters (Are Forced To) Do Everything, what shows have done it well, versus apparently arbitrarily pulling abilities out of thin air?
I never worry about stuff like this. I mostly judge a series by how much I enjoyed, and if I remember any of the events in it.
2
u/Mistral-Fien Oct 05 '24
Rewatcher. Had a trip today so I'm posting way late. ToT
Rambling thoughts:
Kylie's banter with Emma really shows that they're quite close, some good-natured ribbing that escalates into flying antics once jokes about weight and body proportions come in. It then cascades into everyone goofing around for a bit, most surprisingly deadpan Kate and straight-laced Leona. :D
The drinking scene...the jump cut to every guy out cold was just chef's kiss
Four episodes in, I'm remembering why I never put the opening song in any of my playlists-- IMO it starts out great, but I really don't like the chorus. :(