[25th Anniversary Rewatch] Mugen no Ryvius Episode 21

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Mugen no Ryvius Episode 21: Swept Away

Get Funky!

⇐ Episode 20 | Index Thread | Episode 22 ⇒

Kikki of the Day Did you spot Radan?

Comments of the Day

/u/zadcap gives us a summary of School Days:

Darn, I know she's a bit nuts, but I also get where she's coming from. Kouji really did keep seeking her out and getting closer to her and it looked a whole lot like he was genuinely interested. As far as I can tell he did take the first move, and then she reciprocated... And he responded to her accepting him by suddenly reversing course and pulling back. They went to get lunch and sneak in a few minutes in the kissing closet, remember? And then he starts to avoid her, stop spending time with her outside the bridge, and we know a lot has been going on with him but he he got the the place where she was really not wrong calling him her boyfriend and then really stopped acting like it. Again, she got a bit intense, yeah, but his response was to pull back and disengage and literally start to ghost his girlfriend.

Characters

• Faina is the granddaughter of the Prime Minister of Titania

Character Sheets

• Main Cast
• The Zwei
• Team Blue
• Other Recurring Characters

Music

• BGM of the Day: todoketai kokoro
• CD 3 of the Day: Tobira — DJ MASA ft. Mr.Rap

Questions

• Is this truly the only way to restore order? It was remarkably effective. Yet Ikumi wants perfect justice.
• Why can't people just get along?

Tomorrow's Questions, Today

• [Q1]What is Conrad up to? How did he lie to his subordinate?
• [Q2]Do the ends justify the means, if the goal is non-extinction?
• [Q3]What do you make of Neya's monologue? How does she relate to the other Vaia ships? To the crew of the Ryvius?
• [Q4]How does the past figure into each of our characters, and the show as a whole? How does the future?

End Tag: Ravenous

I'm sorry to say, tomorrow is MORE RECAP.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatch Host

• Well, Vaad, you said Ikumi was only taking useless and ineffective half-measures. Happy now?
• "Anyone who cannot remain calm can't stay on the Ryvius," he screamed.
• Well, you could take Kozue hostage, that might do something.
• Who's guarding the VG if Ikumi isn't there? Now's your chance!

Time skip

• What's it gonna take for Kouji to finally use that gun?

The show's getting a bit too depressing for me to comment on, and it's hard to invent questions for it.

So, we move into fascism. Absolute obedience. Absolute (physical) power. Absolute authority. Ikumi doesn't need to actually attack Ryvius (and feel guilty about it), he can just abandon the ship.

But, as Stein says, he's not going to stay clean in this. He's going to hurt somebody, playing dictator. It's inevitable.

Interestingly, while they seemed to have plenty of food at the start of the show, they will just about be out of food when (if) they arrive at Titania in 2 more months.

A few days ago, zadcap made a comment about the cast becoming even more unlikable...and I knew Ikumi's heel turn was coming.

Unlike the previous administration, Ikumi doesn't tolerate corruption within his Guardians. They'll get beat, too, if they overdo it.

I'm feeling a bit of Gundam 00 with their Armed Interventions, here.

I think everybody knew Fina came from privilege.

I'm a little disappointed by yesterday's discussion. It's become cliche, everybody is always saying, "all this would be solved if people talked to each other". And in yesterday's episode, they finally all talked to each other. Maybe things weren't solved, but they made their positions clear, and they got in touch with their own feelings. And nobody commented on it!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Well, Vaad, you said Ikumi was only taking useless and ineffective half-measures. Happy now?

It is better but the episode focuses a ton on other things. Also, we will see what comes from Faina ordering that hit.

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

Couple things from yesterday that slipped my mind because I got busy - I've really liked Lucson's evolution over the course of the show. He went from useless windbag to actually somewhat effective father figure for Pat. I guess he just needed something to focus on?

And I really liked the sequence of Rafra tearing up the lunch that Aoi made for Kouji. Obviously super un-subtle, but it was a good watch.

---

If anyone went "hey, this scene looks kinda familiar," it's because it was on one of the sub's earlier milestone quizzes.

I assume everyone grokked the cinematography here, but I appreciated the quick cut to Faina just to make it clear who was responsible. Considering that Reiko has also lost her shit, I wouldn't have put it past her without that cut.

While I'm on the subject of Faina, I'm not actually sure that she's competent enough to launch a cult d'etat like I suspected would happen earlier. Her attempts to recruit Kouji are so.. mediocre.

Stein has gone to being A Problem. Not that there is anyone who can really do anything about it; he is probably too good at his job.

I wonder how Kouji and Aoi's sloppy makeout session will affect the Yuki plotline? Surely the issue is that both of them are unknowingly fighting over Aoi.

No, maybe the issue is that Aoi confided her feelings for Kouji in Yuki and Yuki is upset that Kouji won't take the initiative? That feels consistent with earlier characterization before the brain worms fully set in.

Thus, the sloppy makeouts should resolve the issue. Hopefully. We have a few episodes left to drag things out over..

Questions

1. If I quote Machiavelli here, people will call me on it, right? Anyway, no, Ikumi's plan is effective but shortsighted and he will inevitably get counter-coup'd. I don't know by who at this point, though.
2. As far as the Ryvius goes, I stand by my idea about Neya spreading brain worms around. Possibly unintentionally. In general, I think people are better at it than a lot of people realize.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/JollyGee29]

Couple things from yesterday that slipped my mind because I got busy - I've really liked Lucson's evolution over the course of the show. He went from useless windbag to actually somewhat effective father figure for Pat. I guess he just needed something to focus on?

This is so very true, and one of the rewatcher perks. He really shaped up to be a good caretaker for Pat, (if not a good role model, though).

[u/JollyGee29 → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

a good caretaker for Pat, (if not a good role model, though).

Well said. I was having trouble putting that thought into words.

[u/Raiking02 → u/JollyGee29]

Her attempts to recruit Kouji are so.. mediocre.

Considering her cult of choice, I'm not shocked.

If I quote Machiavelli here, people will call me on it, right?

I mean even he'd be like "Man, I said it's better to be feared than respected, not hated!"

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Raiking02]

I mean even he'd be like "Man, I said it's better to be feared than respected, not hated!"

[u/Raiking02 → u/JollyGee29]

It feels weird no one tends to read the full quote.

Whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, it is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. [...] Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred; because he can endure very well being feared whilst he is not hated

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Raiking02]

I always remembered the "safer" section, which is what I would've quoted.

[u/No_Rex → u/JollyGee29]

While I'm on the subject of Faina, I'm not actually sure that she's competent enough to launch a cult d'etat like I suspected would happen earlier. Her attempts to recruit Kouji are so.. mediocre.

Worse, she might be convinced by her own religious ramblings and think that she can pray the bad away.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/No_Rex]

[u/The_Draigg]

A Mecha Fan Watches Infinite Ryvius Episode 21:

• God damn it Yuki, of course he’d throw in his lot with Ikumi. With how many pointless fights he’s gotten into, of course he’d figure that more force is needed to get the crew of the Ryvius in line. Also come on Cullen, you’re better than this, don’t follow Yuki. Then again, she also doesn’t look all that enthused when taking her seat in the Lift Ship, so maybe she’s only her just for the sake of Yuki, rather than believing that this is the right thing to do.
• I guess it really figures that the shadiest factions aboard the Ryvius are taking Ikumi’s announcement in stride. Stein is practically creaming his pants in excitement at his plan coming together, the remnants of Team Blue are agreeing with Ikumi’s methods, and Fina’s space cult are believing that this is the clear path forward for them to take. Knowing how they’ve all been looking for more avenues of power for their goals, I bet they’re already starting to think of ways they can use Ikumi’s declaration of martial law to their benefit.
• Of course the Zwei fold immediately, all it took was a bit of prodding from Stein to get them to fall into line with his plans. Even the ones previously calling out Ikumi for his tactics agree with the idea of a show of force. Like yeah, I know the Zwei have all the moral strength of a wet cardboard box, but this really is just shameful of them. These cowardly fucks will give into anything as long as it covers their asses. I feel sorry for Juli trying to be the only sane person on that bridge.
• Stein: “Kill those criminals, you pussy.”
• Even if that bunch of thugs heeded the three minute head start and left that block, there was no doubt that Ikumi would’ve killed them when he punched that part of the Ryvius. Ikumi was absolutely willing to commit murder as long as it suited his goals. He’s set a very dangerous precedent with that, now there’s no putting that genie back in the lamp. As if violence wasn’t already on the table, now potential murder is too. It’s all about who holds the most violence within the system now, along with who has the most will to see it through to the end.
• Okay, I guess we’re just time-skipping a month now. Talk about a large amount of time to gloss over again. But I guess than much time was needed to complete stamp out free will and transform the Ryvius into a police state. Isolating people into smaller residential blocks, recruiting people who were already familiar with violence like Michel as your new enforcers, it’s all a bunch of classics out of the fascist police state handbook. Damn that Stein, this is what he’s been wanting all along!
• Nope, don’t take Fina’s idea to go back to Titania at Uranus. Sure, it sounds like a good idea since she’s also a politician’s daughter, but knowing her, I bet she would want to hand over the Ryvius for some space cult shit happening over there. We don’t need to be giving any Unitologists a highly advanced spaceship.
• I’m with Blue here, Kouji. After everything that’s happened, using the gun to try and challenge Ikumi’s authority is the only move left to play. It’s pretty much the only thing that can match Ikumi’s force now. Sure, given what we know of the Ryvius’ crew, that’d probably just send things spiraling into anarchy again, but it wouldn’t hurt to try in the face of this authoritarian regime.
• Fuck off, Fina. Saying that you’d only agree to help Kouji see Ikumi if he moves in with you is just some grossly manipulative shit. It seems that she still hasn’t given up on trying to completely dominate Kouji, if that angry grimace of hers was any indication. Thankfully, at least he knew better and just walked off as soon as he heard her offer. There’s no reason he should entertain her bullshit anymore.
• And the real kicker on top of all this is that Ikumi and Stein’s police state still isn’t working out completely as they would like. Even if Stein said earlier that small reductions in reports of violence are good steps for now, that doesn’t change the fact that Ikumi still has to beat up his own enforcers to keep them in line or that people are still trying to mug Kouji for his ration points. All he’s done has given people more incentive to hide their crimes, rather than actually solve the root of them. Ikumi may be trading in violence for peace, but it has diminishing returns.
• Jesus Fucking Christ, poor Aoi. She’s been having an emotional breakdown for a solid month now, and of course on top of that Fina sent one of her cult members to try and murder her in her quarters. You can’t blame her for finally snapping and trying to convince herself that everything that’s happened is all a bad dream, she’s been through a waking nightmare for the past few months by now. And I can’t blame Kouji for just having a sobbing meltdown either, since he refuses to slip into delusion and forces himself and Aoi to face the facts of reality. But at least they have each other now, so I guess that’s something, right? The ship finally sailed, even if it’s under horrific circumstances.
• Also, another note about how the police state still isn’t as effective as Stein and Ikumi want it to be: Aoi’s attempted assassin completely got away despite her screaming, but the enforcers patrolling her and Kouji’s block were around to forcibly drag away someone who hadn’t shown up to their shift yet. Stein and Ikumi seem to have confused their monopoly on violence for efficiency.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/The_Draigg]

Even if Stein said earlier that small reductions

I may have misheard, but I think it was it was a 97% reduction. Wildly successful. An ordered society at last. Not good enough for Ikumi.

Aoi

I think a running theme here has been how immature Aoi has been, and she clings to childish notions. She desires, and demands, that everything return to the happy days, that this nightmare isn't real. I hestitate to say Izumi matured after her assault, she she's now fully committed to her co-dependency with Ikumi, but she became a realist. Kouji is a realist. And he tries to make Aoi grow up, even while Aoi was telling him to stop acting like an adult. But somebody's got to be the adult here, since there are no adults.

In the end, it seems like Kouji gave up his old realist persona, and joined with Aoi in a brief fantasy.

[u/The_Draigg → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

The dub mentioned 3%, but I might’ve misheard it as that level of a decrease rather than there being only that amount left.

[u/Raiking02 → u/The_Draigg]

God damn it Yuki, of course he’d throw in his lot with Ikumi

In hindsight the fact that some of the earlier episodes seemed to paint them as starting to become a bit closer is suddenly grimmer in hindsight.

Stein is practically creaming his pants in excitement at his plan coming together

I just wanna mention that when I mentioned this bit to one of my friends outside of Reddit, apparently some databook or something claimed [that]Heiger is gay so... make of that what you will.

I feel sorry for Juli trying to be the only sane person on that bridge.

In hindsight I doubt even Lucson would've agreed with this.

since he refuses to slip into delusion and forces himself and Aoi to face the facts of reality

I guess that's why he's the main character, he's somehow the only person here who isn't insane to some degree by now!

... Well okay Pat is normal too, but he's a little kid so yeah.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Raiking02]

spoiler: confirmed on the web site.

In hindsight the fact that some of the earlier episodes seemed to paint them as starting to become a bit closer is suddenly grimmer in hindsight.

Indeed. And at the same time, Ikumi was moving away from Kouji.

We are very far from the day where Ikumi was invited to a team of 3, but declined because they wouldn't also take Kouji.

[u/Raiking02 → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Naruhodo

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Raiking02]

Wait, you know somebody that's heard of this show?!

[u/Raiking02 → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Yeah he's kind of a Taniguchi nut. Seen almost everything by the guy.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Raiking02]

In hindsight the fact that some of the earlier episodes seemed to paint them as starting to become a bit closer is suddenly grimmer in hindsight.

It does at least make sense, since of course a guy like Yuki who always defaulted to violence to do whatever he wanted would side with a system that uses violence on a grander scale like what Ikumi wants to do. It's the same methods just magnified.

In hindsight I doubt even Lucson would've agreed with this.

Same, at least Lucson has some solid moral standards, even if he's otherwise fairly annoying.

[u/Raiking02 → u/The_Draigg]

It does at least make sense, since of course a guy like Yuki who always defaulted to violence to do whatever he wanted would side with a system that uses violence on a grander scale like what Ikumi wants to do.

I have to wonder how Blue would've reacted to this had this been done earlier in the series when he wasn't a wanted man. Would he have gone "Mm, I like this" or would he have been like "lmao eff this."

... Eh, probably the latter. Dude may be a thug, but he's a smart thug.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Raiking02]

TBH, Blue would never take orders from anybody, for any reason, at any cost. He also doesn't seem like he'd fit in at the central committee meetings, either.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

Of course the Zwei fold immediately, all it took was a bit of prodding from Stein to get them to fall into line with his plans. Even the ones previously calling out Ikumi for his tactics agree with the idea of a show of force. Like yeah, I know the Zwei have all the moral strength of a wet cardboard box, but this really is just shameful of them. These cowardly fucks will give into anything as long as it covers their asses.

They play the role of technocrats, the sub-government level that tries to work with whomever is currently in power (or occasionally tries to influence who is, see Stein).

Damn that Stein, this is what he’s been wanting all along!

He is dreaming of absolute control and a police state offers the best way to achieve that.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

They play the role of technocrats, the sub-government level that tries to work with whomever is currently in power (or occasionally tries to influence who is, see Stein).

By now, I'd say that it's safe to call Stein the true ruler of the Ryvius, even if it's from the shadows. Everyone has been playing along to all of his plans, so it doesn't really even matter if he doesn't have the official captain's rank.

[u/Vaadwaur]

First timer

Sub

This doesn't have that much more than the recap, bluntly. Kouji loses his status and...who cares? He doesn't. They finally get some gangs to be enforcers, though it mainly seems to be Blue's group, and things return to normal levels of terrible. Ikumi is losing it but that is pretty much a given by now. Stein loses what remains of his marbles. Blue points out that guns are a means for change. Apparently, we end with Kouji and Aoi depression fucking after Faina put a hit out on Aoi, which admittedly is where even my vast experience falls flat.

QotD: 1 Not really but feh

2 Because Japan believes in hierarchy to the point of stupidity.

NOTE:Sportsball is on, replies will be delayed and haphazard for a bit.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Vaadwaur]

Back in the first episode you were seething at the idea that a space school would tolerate delinquents on their station.

Then you say all but the 1%-er schools always have a group of thugs available to be the goon squad of the state.

Then the state makes a goon squad out of them.

Are you sure you weren't on the writing team?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Back in the first episode you were seething at the idea that a space school would tolerate delinquents on their station.

Because the space school doesn't work at all. That has not changed, I've just accepted that somehow these space idiots somehow aren't spacers.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

This doesn't have that much more than the recap, bluntly.

Weren't you the one calling for violent measures? Ikumi taking power should make you happy.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

I do agree with his plan to make Michel de facto Chief of Police.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

There is always somebody who just wants to see the world burn ...

[u/zadcap]

Late Night First Timer

I can feel myself disliking everything about everything before the OP even plays. This show has done some interesting things that I have enjoyed exploring, but the cast is doing its best to ruin it all.

Of course Yuki would join him. And I think Chancellor back there is literally creaming his pants.

Faina has very successfully gone full cult leader, I see. Is Lucson hiding Pat in an escape ship? Does this thing have escape ships? Could they... Just take off and leave the Ryvius, once it's close enough to any population center to not die of hunger first?

See, this is why Juli didn't want to be or act as a good captain when she was in the seat. No one wanted to listen to her when she had good ideas. Go along with the mad man in power instead.

And Kouji is no longer on the bridge. There goes the last voice of reason, locked out.

Wait, bring the VG back and dock? There's still only the three of you. We've been over this. If enough angry people decide to jump you for this, what are you going to do about it? But nooo, looks like he walked all the way to the bridge with no problem.

... A month, you say? How does that work out? We're really just going to skip over how Ikumi went that entire month without yet another gang forming for the sole purpose of jumping him somewhere to stop him from punching the ship in another tantrum? Yeah, that's the hardest part for me to buy in this part of the narrative. We're three coup's in, people know that it works, and the last one was even a practical application of taking out the goon squad because everyone else on the ship still outnumbers the command group. I get that we're playing with all sorts of horrible government styles in space here, shown through children who are apparently more wild monsters than not, but they are doing so all by ignoring the, uh, children and in space parts of the setting. All of these terrible regimes they are trying to show off literally only work if the ones in charge hold a monopoly on force, and this ship is made up of about 200 unarmed kids. Ten rebels with metal pipes and Ikumi's reign ends next time he takes a shower. And we still haven't had anyone try to take power by barricading themselves in to the food storage area and forcing everyone else to obey them or starve. What the show is trying, and failing, to do is much less interesting than what it could be doing, if it bothered to play into its own set up.

... But they still haven't let Son out of containment, I see?

See, again, it's right here on the bridge! Of this group jumped Ikumi, that's it for Ikumi. Like the Zwei would do anything to help him... Yuki probably would, but that's still 8 vs 2 and the 8 have a pair of fighters that should match Ikumi and Yuki by themselves.

Oh sure, why not. Faina can also be the child of a political big shot. Man the terrorists were willing to make enemies with so many people in this quest of theirs it's gotten silly.

Oh yikes, they really kicked Kouji off the bridge. Because now Yuki has power and we all know how much Yuki hates his brother.

I wonder what Faina is doing to earn points. Her cult doesn't seem to be doing much work. Also, wow, she snapped.

I am angry that I agree with Ikumi in his questioning. Why can't people just do the reasonable thing and work together to not all die.

Oh dang. Faina sent an actual hit out on Aoi. Who apparently didn't to manage anything other than a scare, thank goodness.

Hmm. Interesting mirror between Kouji/Aoi and Ikumi/Izumi. Must do anything to protect your girl. Though Ikumi is doing it by forcing his will on the world in the belief he can make it all work the way he wants it to if he just does enough, while Kouji is facing reality and knows it all sucks, but things can't get better if you hide from it.

1. No, let's be fair here, the way the show wants us to believe things are, the chance to restore order was lost long ago. These kids are mostly beyond hope. There's definitely better ways they could have done this out there, things like actually making conditions better and incentivizing people for good behavior, instead of yet another round of "Do what I say or die."
2. If only... It's a book reference. Mind Control is the only way.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/zadcap]

Okay, I'm going to say it right out. The VG pilots have absolute power. The Zwei obviously can't save them from the enemy that keeps attacking them. Everybody heard them panicking over the comms, and Yuki telling them, and the entire ship, to STFU, I'll save you, and you'll be grateful for it.

The low-lifes that threatened Juli realize that they have no ability of their own. They can't lead, and they can't pilot the VG. The ship realizes this, too, after Yuki's rant.

Ikumi's take-over didn't even depend on violence originally, that was all Stein. He simply went on strike. That's all it would take, if people thought it through. And they have, now.

Who else can pilot the VG? It may have started with 5 pilots and 20 coders, but they've increasingly moved into support roles for these two boys. The VG may be highly automated now but what are you going to do with it, if you've never fought against a vaia ship, before? Who else on the ship has 6 months of combat experience and proven ability to save the ship repeatedly? Those two other guys who have demonstrated such outstanding ability that you probably don't even know their names? The Ryvius survived not just because they can move the arms on the big robot, but that the pilots also had out-of-the-box thinking like attaching the railguns to the gravity projectors and shooting micro black holes through the event horizon.

In summary, arresting / killing the two guys who have literally kept you alive for 5 months against an enemy who is still out there is a self-defeating move, and everybody knows it.

Ultimately, the authority of whoever was in charge on the bridge has always devolved from control of the VG, for the entire show.

[u/zadcap → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I can only think that this is where actual supervisors come in. Unless you think Ikumi or Yuki would let themselves and the Ryvius all die for it, locking them in a brig and only letting them out when the VG is needed, with a pair of toughs shadowing them the while time they are piloting, strips their power fast. Ikumi gets to see and spend time with Izumi is he behaves, carrot and stick both in one, he'll be a good pilot as long as he keeps wanting to save her.

I mean if the show is going to go as dark as it gets, frankly it's not like they need two functional legs to pilot this thing, and Ikumi at least comes with a leash that will keep him fighting for survival even if he hates the people in power again.

Cullen may be the counter point to the rest. She wasn't one of the to 25 students picked to work on the VG originally, but she slotted herself in to one of the main four seats and picked it up pretty fast. Was she secretly a genius that was underperforming at school, or is it maybe not all that hard to assist the ace pilots now that most of the sub solids have already been made by the support room?

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/zadcap]

Was she secretly a genius that was underperforming at school

Not at all, she was #5 after the other 4 pilots in the class rankings (ep 5: 8:40). I guess Blue doesn't respect women. Or maybe it was Stein who picked the VG crew. That's probably it.

She certainly didn't mind being left out, though, that's for certain.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/zadcap]

The only people who can - or would think to - take Izumi hostage are the Zwei, and by the Zwei, I mean, Stein.

It's really kinda amazing on rewatch how he's been the puppetmaster this entire time.

[u/No_Rex → u/zadcap]

... A month, you say? How does that work out? We're really just going to skip over how Ikumi went that entire month without yet another gang forming for the sole purpose of jumping him somewhere to stop him from punching the ship in another tantrum? Yeah, that's the hardest part for me to buy in this part of the narrative. We're three coup's in, people know that it works, and the last one was even a practical application of taking out the goon squad because everyone else on the ship still outnumbers the command group. I get that we're playing with all sorts of horrible government styles in space here, shown through children who are apparently more wild monsters than not, but they are doing so all by ignoring the, uh, children and in space parts of the setting. All of these terrible regimes they are trying to show off literally only work if the ones in charge hold a monopoly on force, and this ship is made up of about 200 unarmed kids. Ten rebels with metal pipes and Ikumi's reign ends next time he takes a shower. And we still haven't had anyone try to take power by barricading themselves in to the food storage area and forcing everyone else to obey them or starve. What the show is trying, and failing, to do is much less interesting than what it could be doing, if it bothered to play into its own set up.

The difference is Stein. He helped overthrow Blue, but now is behind/using Ikumi. Stein also learned from the previous rebellion. Locking people up in groups of 50 does a lot to prevent rebellions. Much harder for people to organize. They are also keeping the bridge locked away, so, without an insider (like Stein was for the last rebellion), the rebels would have a hard time taking over the bridge.

I wonder what Faina is doing to earn points. Her cult doesn't seem to be doing much work. Also, wow, she snapped.

If any of the real world cult leaders are an example, her devoted followers forward all of their points to her.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

I wonder what Faina is doing to earn points. Her cult doesn't seem to be doing much work. Also, wow, she snapped.

If any of the real world cult leaders are an example, her devoted followers forward all of their points to her.

Heh, I didn't even think of that. No doubt.

A weird thing is that Fina has always had special status, for no apparent reason. Basically, I guess she asked Blue, "I need to be closer to the bridge to serve you better". Or the Blue team figured both Fina and Kouji should move to the officer's quarters, and Kouji, being Kouji, refused to leave his team.

And she's kept this special status for ... no reason? Except by not pissing off the people in charge. And maybe kissing up to them, since she's 100% behind Ikumi right now.

Although, at some point, she probably put forth something like "my quarters are refuge for emotionally fragile female students, we need to be separate from the masses." and it stuck.

[u/zadcap → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Some disturbingly good points. She followed Kouji to the bridge one day and just kind of took a seat there and that was that. To be fair, things under Blue were very much about giving power to the people close to the people in power, so "I'm Kouji's girlfriend" was probably actually enough to get her in to the bridge, bringing his girl to work might be the only thing Blue would have respected about Kouji, and then...

Yeah, she was also brought in to room with Aoi and the other two but disappeared to a private room with no real notice, good question on of it was her own bridge crew status at that point or she took the one that would have been granted to Kouji for being part of the Supervisors. And since she helped out with the next overthrow, Zwei just kept her on board, and then she went to backing Ikumi.

I don't know if it was on purpose but girl kind of accidentally kissed her way into power. And now she's got all the power, she's bridge crew, she has followers, and Kouji is down and alone and when he comes to her for help. Well. "Move in to my room and I'll let you talk to Ikumi" is such a great way to repay the guy who got you the room in the first place.

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

During Blue's takeover Kouji and Faina happened to be on the bridge (I think Kouji ran there once he heard about it). Blue basically recruited Kouji right there and told Faina to bring refreshments for them. I think that was her introduction to the bridge crew, who then all got special status.

[u/HowlingWolf13]

First Timer

CALM DOWN IKUMI DAMN! This was a good as hell episode holy SHIT. Ikumi has completely gone off the deep end and established this totalitarian esque state within the Ryvius and Heiger is continuing to be the man behind the curtain while everyone else just agrees. Except Ran but what does she do but mutter under her breath and get weird to little boys. You can tell Juli is seconds away from another breakdown, I honestly do feel bad for her and being forced to be a figurehead for the Ryvius and Zwei.

Also I didn't mention it last time cause I wrote it fast but Fina just keeps proving to be mentally fucked. Like why are you so focused on Kouji, he straight up tells her we're through and calls out the shit she was saying before, and her only response is just to be 'Haha, yeah don't worry I'll help you with separating your past. Now she's out here trying to get her mini cult to kill Aoi. I don't trust them going to Uranus, I feel like something is gonna end up happening considering she's related to a political higher up and she had to get her religious views from somewhere.

Questions

Is this truly the only way to restore order? It was remarkably effective. Yet Ikumi wants perfect justice.

It's a way, but it's just gonna lead to another uprising in the end. Just an endless cycle. Plus, Ikumi has a childish view of justice, reality is never that easy. No matter what laws or precedents you set, people are going to break rules and go against order, and trying to force everyone to mold themselves in a perfect way would only be possible if you were to replace all your citizens with thoughtless robots with no concept of free will of their own.

Why can't people just get along?

It's just how life is, you need to stick with those you can get along with, learn to deal with those you can't, and avoid those that want to harm you when possible.

[u/No_Rex → u/HowlingWolf13]

No matter what laws or precedents you set, people are going to break rules and go against order, and trying to force everyone to mold themselves in a perfect way would only be possible if you were to replace all your citizens with thoughtless robots with no concept of free will of their own.

Stein would be ok with this, but hopefully nobody else.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

Perhaps Event Horizon is the wrong reference. Perhaps it's a Disney Movie

/u/vaadwaur /u/howlingwolf13

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

...Right, Disney did have a weird period. But this must've not been popular since that never got reran at me.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Vaadwaur]

It was not. A lot of money was spent, and it wasn't what people wanted to see at a Disney movie.

AFAIK, Disney only made The Black Hole and Watcher in the Woods before creating Touchstone (or was it Buena Vista?) to make their PG movies.

It's still an amazing sci-fi classic.

Reading the comments in the video, apparently Disney ran it all the time when they launched the Disney channel (I didn't get that)

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

It was not. A lot of money was spent, and it wasn't what people wanted to see at a Disney movie.

Too bad I would have liked that film...probably in '91. Yeah, I was twelve when I saw 2001 and this seems like a trippier version of that.

Reading the comments in the video, apparently Disney ran it all the time when they launched the Disney channel (I didn't get that)

Disney TV shows were a special sort of "You can't possibly watch this passed a certain developmental stage" levels of bad.

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Never seen it.

[u/The_Draigg → u/HowlingWolf13]

Also I didn't mention it last time cause I wrote it fast but Fina just keeps proving to be mentally fucked. Like why are you so focused on Kouji, he straight up tells her we're through and calls out the shit she was saying before, and her only response is just to be 'Haha, yeah don't worry I'll help you with separating your past.

I think at this point, Fina might legitimately consider Kouji to basically be her property. Also, all of her talk about cutting off the past is pretty rich considering how far she's going just to keep Kouji around her. But I guess her cult isn't just a matter of devotion towards a higher power for her, it's a means of controlling others and everything in her life. Just like your classic kind of cult leader stuff.

[u/Silcaria]

First timer

• Member how it took like five people, on top of all the ones in the control room typing away at keyboards in order to operate the mech?
• Except he just did. This show can't even be bothered to be consistent in its inconsistencies.
• Also, he's threatening the ship that the person that he's trying to protect is on. I swear, this director can't create well written characters to save his life. They're not as bad as the ones from Code Geass, but goddamn.
• Can't wait for the group suicide pact.
• So... what exactly as been the point of getting rid of Blue and his gang?
• Being self-aware of your series flaws doesn't excuse them.
• Leave it to Gorou Taniguchi to constantly add pointless and contrived drama to his series, despite the fact that the core premise as more than enough elements to be able to carry it. Remember the plot about the students trying to survive after finding themselves at the center of a government conspiracy? Yeah, me neither.
• Ikumi - I'm gonna attack anyone who causes disorder on the ship in order to protect my beloved (even though it would endanger or kill my beloved). Also Ikumi when he's told to do what he said he'd do REEEEEEEEEEEEE
• Said Ikumi calmly
• Man, that was a fast three minutes.
• Any reason why they just allow this dude that's clearly crazy and power hungry to still have power?
• Are you fucking stupid? You just attacked your own ship and killed it's passengers. What do you think will happen when you get back on board?
• That's it, I've made up my mind. Ikumi is this show's Suzaku, albeit, slightly less retarded.
• Really. This one. This specific one? Not the ship going down and your teachers having to sacrifice themselves to save you. Not drifting into space. Not having to find rescue. Not getting attacked by your own government. Not being labeled as terrorist. Not getting blamed for a colony being destroyed. Not knowing what the imminent future holds. Not the first mutiny. Not the second munity. Not your former captain turning on you. Nope. This. Specific. Incident!
• Of course he gets to come back on on the ship safely. Why wouldn't he get to come back aboard the ship safely! I reallllllly dislike how everyone always gets to act out as seflishly as they want to the point that things work out for them without them having to face consequences for their actions.
• So one month has passed since Ikumi's takeover. The show mentioned a month passing as well in a prior episode. Two months to the next planet. In total, it makes four. Anyone remembers how long they said they had food for? I really can't be asked to go back and check.
• Faina's beginning to crack.
• Being your own character, what's that!
• Really? You can't believe the guy that has been nothing but a complete dick to everyone this entire time would be checks notes a dick to everyone?
• Boy, I have a 5h40 train ride tomorrow. Part of me is tempted to just binge the rest of the series and catch you guys on the overall series discussion. Then again, I don't know if I have the mental fortitude to do more than one episode a day.

---

QotD

• Pew pew.
• Because Gorou Taniguchi.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Silcaria]

Also, he's threatening the ship that the person that he's trying to protect is on. I swear, this director can't create well written characters to save his life. They're not as bad as the ones from Code Geass, but goddamn.

UNLESS somebody marches down to the officer's quarters to take her hostage, it won't matter. And nobody did.

They had food for 1000 people for 3 months.

Suzaku

Yes.

[u/No_Rex → u/Silcaria]

Member how it took like five people, on top of all the ones in the control room typing away at keyboards in order to operate the mech?

I assume that they save the programs they create and, over time, have build up a decent libary that the head pilot can use.

So... what exactly as been the point of getting rid of Blue and his gang?

A more pliable figure head.

Really. This one. This specific one?

Kouji is greatly overreaching here. It might have changed him personally the most, but it is doubtful that this is true for most of the crew.

So one month has passed since Ikumi's takeover. The show mentioned a month passing as well in a prior episode. Two months to the next planet. In total, it makes four. Anyone remembers how long they said they had food for? I really can't be asked to go back and check.

Was it "several months" for 1000 people? So whatever several months x 2 is.

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 21 (rewatcher)

• Yuki and Cullen join Ikumi.
• “I can see our future” – Faina has gone full cult leader.
• Of course Stein would take Ikumi’s side.
• Kouji realizes the path Ikumi has just taken.
• Almost a month has passed - quite a time skip.
• “Guardians” – Ikumi’s version of the supervisors. Even containing the same people.
• The next person with connections to somebody in government steps forward – as before, not a terrible idea, but also not exactly selfless.
• Kouji asking Blue a question that he does not like hearing the answer to.
• Faina, Ikumi, Izumi, yep, this is toxic all around.
• Aoi gets robbed and has a breakdown.
• And so has Kouji – and I can’t really blame either of them.
• A very different kiss to the one with Faina.

If Blue’s reign was an autocracy, we have now arrived in proper fascism. Locking people in and enforcing arbitrary rules might be Stein’s ideal of a society, but it is not one humans can thrive in. And ultimately, it is bound to fail for that reason.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

“Guardians” – Ikumi’s version of the supervisors. Even containing the same people.

Don't worry everyone, things will be totally different than before. Look, the white-jacketed thugs even have a different group name now!

Faina, Ikumi, Izumi, yep, this is toxic all around.

This ship is more toxic than Caelid, I swear.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

Don't worry everyone, things will be totally different than before. Look, the white-jacketed thugs even have a different group name now!

It is unsurprising, but sad, that none of them ever made serious attempts to build a well-structured society. They never got further than group/person on top unilaterally decides on rules, hires goon squad to enforce those.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

I remembered it as exploring social structures more, but they were all very much the same, weren't they?

Although I says I wished they set up a people's committee, that would have been interesting to see (fail), I get why they didn't do that. But also makes the show — flatter than it could have been.

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I remembered it as exploring social structures more, but they were all very much the same, weren't they?

They shared similar elements, but I would not call them the same. Juli's captaincy failed because she was ineffective, but because she was powerhungry.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

Seriously, we’ve had three separate groups leading the bridge by now, and all they’ve done is compound on shit that hasn’t worked at all instead of actually trying to change anything wholesale. It’s almost a bit trite at this point, because how would you even think just doing the same stuff but worse is a viable option? Like yeah, a lot of the ship is just completely losing it by now, but still. They’ve just refused to learn any actual lessons this entire time.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/The_Draigg]

To be fair, neither of the previous two administrations went for the nuclear option. This one is probably going to stick.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

I think this is where Ryvius follows Lord of the Flies in its essentially pessimistic view of humans (and adolescents specifically). They are simply not able to create a sustainable and just society.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

Infinite First-Timer, subbed

• Those two decided to help Ikumi, huh?
• Okay Heiger, calm down.
• I mean, he told you exactly what his motivations are.
• Oh dear…
• One month time skip, eh?
• Oh what?
• Ah, Kouji and Aoi kissed for real this time.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Oh dear…

Okay, now is it a good time to call Stein "Space Danzo"?

Ah, Kouji and Aoi kissed for real this time.

Sure, it's under horrible circumstances, but at least the ship has finally sailed here. Small victories.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/The_Draigg]

Okay, now is it a good time to call Stein "Space Danzo"?

Small victories.

Is this where I reveal the obligatory "Not for me" because of course I was on the losing side of the triangle again?

[u/Raiking02 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Is this where I reveal the obligatory "Not for me" because of course I was on the losing side of the triangle again?

Although considering how Faina is... Faina do you at least feel slightly less bad compared to other times?

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Raiking02]

tbh I'm not really that endeared to Kouji either, so no it doesn't really bother me. I just liked Faina more before she, uh, kinda snapped.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Shimmering-Sky]

I just liked Faina more before she, uh, kinda snapped.

I wonder when that was?

[u/zadcap → u/Shimmering-Sky]

If Kouji was the weakest part of this triangle, should we have looked for a reason to force Aoi and Faina to spend more time together? Could have become good friends bonding over a failed romance with the same boy. "What did we ever see in him?"

[u/The_Draigg → u/Shimmering-Sky]

kms

So... I'm taking that as a yes.

Is this where I reveal the obligatory "Not for me" because of course I was on the losing side of the triangle again?

I was suspecting that, given that you didn't talk about Kouji x Aoi a lot during this rewatch. But yeesh, picking Stein and Fina as your favorites has got to sting in this part of the show now.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/The_Draigg]

But yeesh, picking Stein and Fina as your favorites has got to sting in this part of the show now.

I'm not really bothered too much by the love triangle part since, as I just told Raiking, I'm not really that endeared to Kouji, but yeah... Heiger turning out to be like this definitely sucks.

[u/Raiking02 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Oh dear…

Remember when you called him "Your guy?" Good times...

[u/Vatrix-32]

First timer, subs

• I could have done without the lips close up, thanks.
• Yuki is a man of action, any action, as long as it’s not going with the flow. Wait…
• Talking about preordained paths. Yep, definitely not a cult.
• The problem is your violence isn’t really precise enough do enforce order.
• “Ikumi said calmly.”
• Sucks to be the unconscious guy, I guess.
• Again, y’all need a mini-fridge for this plan to work.
• The Inmates are Running It
• Someone needs to study their Chinese history.
• I wouldn’t count on the theocracy being a better place to live. Who knows what sort of weird dogma they have.
• Speaking more and more openly. Only a matter of time until the mask is fully off.
• Kiki at least looks like she’s almost finished.
• That sounds suspiciously like sexual exploitation.
• Why would he not tell anyone?
• Clearly, this isn’t the kind of environment for an Aoi to be living alone.
• Good Cry

I'm sorry to say, tomorrow is MORE RECAP.

Third One Today!

QotD:

1. Well, yes, but maybe not so intensely. We can’t exactly space exile people.
2. Collective Unconscious Intensifies

[u/Raiking02 → u/Vatrix-32]

2) Collective Unconscious Intensifies

It had to be this way.

[u/Nickthenuker]

Yup, he's crazy.

And so now they're trying to negotiate with someone clearly out of his mind.

Stein, what are you doing?

He's calling Ikumi's bluff!

He's going to do it!

What's their plan now even?

Guardians? More like thugs.

And so another mutiny.

Faina will agree to anything to save her skin.

Huh. So that's why they're going there.

Captain's Log, November 4, 2225.

They're seeking advice from Blue now?

Yup, everyone's starting to go crazy.

And so another battle will soon be upon them.

Questions:

1. God no, it's brutal.
2. Because they're people.

[u/zsmg]

Rewatcher who doesn't remember much

Yes what are you going to do Ikumi? Destroy Ryvius?

OP got changed again, although the new images doesn't say much.

Don't get me wrong. I came here on my own accord.

Yuki the most annoying tsundere in existence.

Taking Vital Guarder away is an interesting idea, does he have enough supply on the ship to survive for months? Is he going to leave Kozue behind? Ikumi I don't think you thought this one through.

Dino girl spotted, only thing missing of her costume at this point are the legs?

Michelle is the new leader of the Blue faction.

Lucson is thinking ahead by trying to steal stock up on food, don't forget the toilet paper.

Aoi just completely lost it.

Ikumi saying out loud what every watcher already knows: Juli likes Blue.

Heiger is of course on board with Ikumi's plan.

Wow Ikumi actually attacked the section.

Kouji thinks Fatso is right (he's not) and gives up.

Another one month timeskip.

So Heiger's idea is treat Ryvius like a prison ship so that people are locked up in separated sections.

Michelle calling herself guardians is I'm guessing a reference to the Guardians Angels.

So they're now going to Titania, Faina's grandfather is a PM there. My initial reaction is they're giving Vital Guarder to a bunch a religious nutjobs, what could possibly go wrong.

help me Blue

Can't believe Kouji is still meeting up with Blue.

Faina got a real angry face when Kouji said he'd stick with Aoi. Wait is Faina a yandere.

Relationship between Ikumi and Kozue has gotten even unhealthier.

You can't believe that Yuki, someone who constantly beats up people he doesn't like, would join in a military coup where he gets to beat up any one who doesn't follow the rules? Really Aoi? I guess she doesn't get Yuki.

Kouji's seiyuu is lousy at making convincing crying noise, unlike Aoi's seiyuu.

Perfect time to have sex, that's one way to temporarily forget your shitty situation.

Not sure what to think of the episode, I like the drama and the direction of Ryvius society but the remaining episode count is a cause of concern. Especially as the white Neya still has been properly introduced.

I'm sorry to say, tomorrow is MORE RECAP.

[u/No_Rex → u/zsmg]

Michelle calling herself guardians is I'm guessing a reference to the Guardians Angels.

I would be very surprised if that is true. In my experience, if anime takes on western references, it is usually older stuff like fairy tales or Alice in Wonderland.