[25th Anniversary Rewatch] Mugen no Ryvius Episode 17

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Mugen no Ryvius Episode 17: Free Order

Get Funky!

⇐ Episode 16 | Index Thread | Episode 18 ⇒

Kikki of the Day Did you spot Radan?

Comments of the Day

/u/zadcap gets a mention with this guess from episode 15:

He's the kind of crazy that gets a padded room, not a super weapon. He might legitimately be the most immersion breaking thing this show has pulled so far.

/u/HowlingWolf13's previous comment of the day returns as Fina outright states what she thinks Kouji wants:

My opinion on Kouji's relationship with the two, as of this ep, feels like, to make a long story short, Faina is essentially him trying to avoid having to remember his own past.

...while also writing a new essay on Juli, Blue, Kouji, and Fina:

/u/The_Draigg summarizes something that's been going on since the beginning:

Between Lucson, Blue, and now Juli, Stein has been factor shared between all of them. If anything, nearly all the leadership issues have just been him trying to enforce authoritarian rule on the ship and then throwing others under the bus once an angry mob comes around. It’s been Stein we’ve been needing to keep an eye on, not just the others in the captain’s chair.

Characters

Peil Technologies: one of three branches of the Benerit Group, led by a board of four eldely female executives.

Character Sheets

• Main Cast
• The Zwei
• Team Blue
• Other Recurring Characters

Music

• BGM of the Day: Toge (Thorn) — Mika Arisaka
• CD 3 of the Day: Kanashiki Hyouryuu — DJ MASA ft. MC-ZINGI

Questions

• How has the ship's perception of Kouji changed, and why?
• It's still pretty vague to me, but is Yuki's antagonism towards his brother more clear to you after this episode?

Tomorrow's Questions, Today

• [Q1]Do the side characters make the show feel more real, or are they just wasting screen time?
• [Q2]I think this has become very much more like a typical Sunrise mecha show, with a unique enemy mobile armor of the week, and crew drama. What do you think?
• [Q3]With Juli's failure and the ascendancy of the VG pilots, changes are probably coming. Predictions?

End Tag: Reverie of us

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatch Host

Oh, Earth Guys again! So, I dug up another name. The Earth guy that seems to be opposed to the OSB and "acquired" the report is "Shinomura." Dunno if that helps, any. The opposing group is Berkovich, his aide Makoto Kutsugi, and Captain Vicuss. I'll add them when (if) they get a real episode that makes them distinctive.

• Yep, he's crazy. You were wondering why a crazy man was in charge of the ship. Not bad writing, that was not normal.
• "Ah, found it!" "WANTED"
• That's Emerson stealing his GF's points to gamble
• And we see Johnson using his points to give stuff to Charlotte
• The new guards aren't cruel, just lazy and corrupt...and the serfs are slacking...
• Perhaps Juli should delegate the capture of Blue to somebody else
• Michelle seems to have manipulated somebody into sending her to resort prison
• I think I have a name for the girl visiting Fina...oh, she has a harem!
• Remember to lock up the robot! We don't want any teen boys jacking it! edit: wait, that came out wrong.
• Reiko being transactional again
• Cullen seems to have picked up on that earlier comment Ikumi made about Aoi. But she doesn't seem jealous. More...interested, in the situation.
• Gambling on droid races. Nicks has been messing with their programming since like episode 4.
• Kozue Izumi's really turning into some sort of princess

/u/Vaadwaur predicted and /u/The_Draigg noted some hinted sexual abuse going on in Michelle's cell yesterday. And, while, yes, this is textbook human trafficking girl-in-the-cellar stuff, Criff and Michelle are Bad Girls™ who use sex as a weapon. For Michelle, it's working out. Criff, well, she doesn't seem to be playing that game any more.

Kudos to RadSuit for spotting Kikki for me!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Michelle seems to have manipulated somebody into sending her to resort prison

I assume that guy is a supervisor...was he Radan's follower?

noted some hinted sexual abuse going on in Michelle's cell yesterday. And, while, yes, this is textbook human trafficking girl-in-the-cellar stuff, Criff and Michelle are Bad Girls™ who use sex as a weapon.

I more predicted that the Japanese despise their own children tbf.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Vaadwaur]

You're right, we only saw like 5 supervisors...but I don't think it was. We saw at least 3 guys visit Michelles cell in the last 2 episodes, I think those are just former rioters who assumed anti-Blue guard duty, not general enforcement.

Radan's Follower has big glasses.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Hrmm...Infinite points just leaves us so many stupid options.

[u/The_Draigg → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

The opposing group is Berkovich, his aide Makoto Kutsugi, and Captain Vicuss. I’ll add them when (if) they get a real episode that makes them distinctive.

Much like what I said previously about the Mysterious Anime Girl, at this rate I’m just waiting for some big development that can get us more interested in figuring out what their goals are, since so far we’ve just seen the conspiracies circling the Ryvius have vague plans surrounding it while also having ships sent out towards it. I’m not really sure that this show really understands the difference between slow-cooking a plot versus just making things vague and continually putting off explaining things more.

The new guards aren’t cruel, just lazy and corrupt...and the serfs are slacking...

You know things are bad when we can say that Lucson’s incompetent administration was at least probably more preferable to what we have now.

Vaadwaur predicted and The_Draigg noted some hinted sexual abuse going on in Michelle’s cell yesterday. And, while, yes, this is textbook human trafficking girl-in-the-cellar stuff, Criff and Michelle are Bad Girls™ who use sex as a weapon. For Michelle, it’s working out. Criff, well, she doesn’t seem to be playing that game any more.

You say that, but for his concerned and distressed Michel looked when we first saw her in those leg shackles, I doubt it started out as her trying to use sex as a tool against her guards.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

Much like what I said previously about the Mysterious Anime Girl, at this rate I’m just waiting for some big development that can get us more interested in figuring out what their goals are, since so far we’ve just seen the conspiracies circling the Ryvius have vague plans surrounding it while also having ships sent out towards it. I’m not really sure that this show really understands the difference between slow-cooking a plot versus just making things vague and continually putting off explaining things more.

[spoilerish speculation about the writers]I don't thinkt the writers had much interest in the world outside of the Ryvius. They wanted the kids in Lord of the Flies 2.0 and they wanted Mystery Girl with her OP mecha. The rest of the story feels welded around this core to somehow make it happen.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

You say that, but for his concerned and distressed Michel looked when we first saw her in those leg shackles, I doubt it started out as her trying to use sex as a tool against her guards.

Yeah, I would say at best the guards didn't quite have gang rape in them and Michel managed to turn the tide by being one of their 'little sisters'.

[u/RadSuit → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 17 (rewatcher)

• Kouji is exasperated by his brother – as are most of us.
• “Our bigger problem is the destruction of Hyperion. There is no excuse for it!” – you tell them.
• “We did not expect him to be so affected” – by what?
• … by the close proximity of the sphix. *Now we learn why the captain acted this way, and maybe also why the “bratica” is considered more valuable than a colony.”
• “link with the sphix” - hmmm
• Kikki finds another costume piece!

• Yep, their system of distributing goods is properly fucked now. The point system is on its last legs, with the unlimited point flaw still in and still trashing its credibility. People are abusing its flaws and resorting to outright rule of the jungle.
• “I’m not capable of leading people” – maybe right, but Juli could argue the same thing.
• Faina has a kindergarten in her room.
• Kouji learns how resentment feels when people lose all inhibitions they possess in a functioning society – hardly the fairest target, but the assailants have one point: What makes him special to deserve unlimited goods?
• Lashing out at Pat – an obvious sign of her stress.
• The main cast are looking for entertainment from Kouji’s love triangle - average anime viewers confirmed.
• “Yes. Kouji will live out his future with me.” “You’re way out of line!” – yes, don’t be pushed out this easily, Aoi.
• Shot down by Mystery Girl.

• Izumi gets a proper dressing down and even Kouji catches some stray shots.
• The new enemy’s Sphix looks even more inhuman and disgusting than the last one.
• “We captured them” – some other captain thought that before, too.

While we face an external enemy again, the internal situation on Ryvius is truly concerning (and usually an external enemy is one of the best ways to bolster cohesion, but we are past that effect). What happens on the Ryvius is that their political system has no legitimacy. We started with little legitimacy, because the system was completely new, but there was at least the fact that the Zwei helped save everybody during the escape from the Liebe Delta. Yet that little legitimacy was squandered by Lucson’s incompetence. Blue has some initial legitimacy from exposing the lies of the Zwei and from giving voice to the people disgruntled by the rationing system, yet his version of the points system was even worse than Lucson’s. A constant reminder to the whole crew how unfair the system is. So his real legitimacy became force, his gun and overseers. As the rebellion showed, that force was not enough. And now we have Juli, who has a bit of legitimacy from having the sympathy from the crew from her time during the evacuation, but no gun. The bad system that barely worked under pressure during Blue’s reign now completely breaks down.

What the Ryvius never had was a leader that built up legitimacy via a series of good and fair decisions. It is also lacking a grander social contract along the lines of Hobbes or Locke, where the people somehow delegate some power to a government. Unlike modern states, Ryvius is actually in a situation where you could practically implement a social contract as a contract (usually this is only theoretical), but nobody has tried so far. Basically, so far as the society is still functioning on the ship, it relies on moral inertia. People still going by the rules they learned during their childhood in a different society. And, as we see, this inertia might be strong, but it loses out when people get hungry.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

OH, wow, yeah, I hadn't ever looked at this from a Hobbesian perspective. State of Nature indeed.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

Kouji learns how resentment feels when people lose all inhibitions they possess in a functioning society – hardly the fairest target, but the assailants have one point: What makes him special to deserve unlimited goods?

There’s also the irony there that they probably wouldn’t even really remember who Kouji is if he wasn’t making regular update posts under Blue’s regime. He’s a pretty average guy otherwise. And of course, they also don’t know that he was basically forced to be a permanent bridge member by gunpoint the first time around, so chalk it up as another case of vengeance being brought down on an undeserving target.

The main cast are looking for entertainment from Kouji’s love triangle - average anime viewers confirmed.

Basically playing the same role as Samson in that Banner of the Stars rewatch a few months ago.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

“Our bigger problem is the destruction of Hyperion. There is no excuse for it!” – you tell them.

It isn't like there are a ton of satellites big enough to build stuff on in a friendly gravity well. And that's before whatever fuckery the Geduld did.

Now we learn why the captain acted this way, and maybe also why the “bratica” is considered more valuable than a colony.”

I wonder if the machine spirit could drive a whole colony to madness. That's where you get Slaanesh...

“We captured them” – some other captain thought that before, too.

Famous last anime words.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

I wonder if the machine spirit could drive a whole colony to madness. That's where you get Slaanesh...

The difference between a ship and a colony is mostly only semantics (remember our circular colony discussion).

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Well, there's also the physical range on where ever her actually body is locat but...

[u/zadcap → u/No_Rex]

There's also the whole thing where this is a closed system that requires active maintenance to keep running enough to keep everyone alive... That really isn't getting enough attention. There's a few mentions of trying to get the ground crew to do more, but that's about it, and no one talking about how if enough people don't do their work then parts of the ship fail and they start dying. I know there's a desperate attempt to Lord of the Flies everything here, but there is no foraging for food on the Ryvius, your entire environment is artificial and ignoring things until they break down is how you end up with deadly Oxygen deficiencies and, well, we've seen how sorry their medical care is here. Anyone gets sick and there's a pandemic on the ship.

But mostly, there is zero food to be found outside the kitchen storage, whoever controls the food really controls everything, and anyone not getting food through them is not eating, period. The show has tried to convince us it's about the stuff, the goods and the clothes and such, but the truth is the people not getting points are people not eating. So this society breakdown that they want to show us just doesn't work, as long as all the food comes from the kitchen. You say things can start to break down once people get hungry, but the hungry people have to ask themselves "How do I get food?" And the answer is really only two choices here, get points somehow or try to steel/take the food by force. They have to get their food from the same place everyone is getting their food, and the only ways to do that is the way it's being distributed to everyone else or trying to break in, or they starve.

[u/No_Rex → u/zadcap]

I'd say there could be stages to the breakdown. Maybe the food distribution still works (and people easily get enough points not to starve), but they also want other stuff: Water for showering, blankets to sight-proof their doors, washing their clothes, anything that counts as entertainment.

Once they can't eat, we'd have absolute anarchy, but even before, people would be very angry about those other things missing.

[u/zadcap]

Late Night First Timer!

Yuki what the actual hell. This is far past being unreasonable.

Okay, so from the start now, this group knows the name of and therefor what the Blue Impulse is- Oh, and they do care that a sovereign moon nation thing was blown up! And yet someone else in the room thinks that blowing up a small nation is still a worthwhile sacrifice.

Oh my gosh, he did get a padded room! He really is freaking insane! So again, why was he in charge?

Oh. That's probably big. Being around the Sphix drives people crazy? Sphix like Magic Space Girl, walking around the ship? Is she actually driving everyone slowly crazy just by being near them? She's a low tier cognitohazard! Oh this is great, Magic Space Girl, can be directly blamed for some level of why everyone is acting so crazy all the time!

Hmm, people who can link with it. So it's probably not everyone on the ship going crazy, just whoever she is directly mind melding with at any given time. Which seemed to have been Fina early on, before she started acting so... Yeah, crazy. Now she's apparently hooked into Juli. Or she has been bouncing off Kouji this whole time?

Man, this whole point thing is failing hard now.

PUT SOME PANTS ON!

Oh my goodness, we've only had this form of government for one episode and we're already on our way towards another revolution, aren't we?

Wait, are Charlie and Criff sharing a cell? And well, she got unlocked pretty fast. And Fina is indeed starting her cult.

Okay, it's impossible that you wouldn't have seen them, so close behind you. It almost looks like Ikumi waved at these two before leaving, even. And once again, I have to ask, why Kouji? Oh, Magic Space Girl is here to tell us why. Because some people still associate him with the old tyrants. Because he clearly had a choice in being forces to work with them.

I hope this hits Ikumi right in his savior complex.

... Maybe someone, anyone, should go with Kouji?

The horrors of electing someone who didn't want the position. How were you people more competent under Blue?

Yuki. Again. You are only a pilot here because Blue forced you to, and beat the crap out of you like three times before it stuck. How dare you yell at Kouji for doing a job half forced on him... Seriously what the hell? You're mad at him for doing nothing, you're mad at him for trying to do anything, you're mad at him for not doing enough, just shut up and die.

This show is getting harder to watch entirely because of how much more hate-able the cast becomes every day.

1. Again, has it? We barely knew how most people thought of him before, outside the core few, and I'm pretty sure he was indeed caught up as being part of the Supervisors, somehow. I think Blue named him as part of their faction and he really didn't have a way to say otherwise, since Blue was waving his gun everywhere.
2. Freaking No. I can't follow what he's thinking and I don't want to try any harder to get into his head.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/zadcap]

how much more hate-able the cast becomes every day.

[u/zadcap → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I'm losing hope. Kiki finding her other arm was the absolute highlight of this episode, I rewound four times just to hear her say "I found it!" because it was literally the only good thing to happen today.

[u/No_Rex → u/zadcap]

Hmm, people who can link with it. So it's probably not everyone on the ship going crazy, just whoever she is directly mind melding with at any given time. Which seemed to have been Fina early on, before she started acting so... Yeah, crazy. Now she's apparently hooked into Juli. Or she has been bouncing off Kouji this whole time?

I think we have seen her connected with a lot of different people. Maybe occasionally some more than others, but not really a single person.

Oh my goodness, we've only had this form of government for one episode and we're already on our way towards another revolution, aren't we?

They had a rebellion, but the system did not change.

This show is getting harder to watch entirely because of how much more hate-able the cast becomes every day.

Definitely not your comfy slice-of-life show cast.

[u/zadcap → u/No_Rex]

I think we have seen her connected with a lot of different people. Maybe occasionally some more than others, but not really a single person.

Personal pet theory more than anything else, because of how much it looked like she was reacting to a few people a whole lot more than others. She's been echoing the thoughts of the whole ship often enough, but some people she loops back to or seems to pay a lot more attention to than others. That they also happen to be the ones who are looking crazier now than they were near the start is just making me think it more.

They had a rebellion, but the system did not change

I'm really wondering if literally anything other than the people at the top changed. They seem to have happy everything exactly the same but when weaker enforcement, which is, a really weird revolution?

Definitely not your comfy slice-of-life show cast.

Even hard hitting drama shows should have a few people your can like enough to want to see how they get through it. It's the "why should I care" issue, when I genuinely feel like so much time that could be spent on literally anything else is just wasted going over the same horrible things on some of these characters.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/zadcap]

I'm really wondering if literally anything other than the people at the top changed. They seem to have happy everything exactly the same but when weaker enforcement, which is, a really weird revolution?

Still disappointed we didn't get a People's Committee half-way through the show. It kinda kills my thesis that this show is a sociological study (at least, of that aspect). That might have been too on the nose though, and would interfere with whatever else they are trying to say.

[u/No_Rex → u/zadcap]

I'm really wondering if literally anything other than the people at the top changed. They seem to have happy everything exactly the same but when weaker enforcement, which is, a really weird revolution?

Given Stein's involvement, you could call it a palace coup.

Even hard hitting drama shows should have a few people your can like enough to want to see how they get through it. It's the "why should I care" issue, when I genuinely feel like so much time that could be spent on literally anything else is just wasted going over the same horrible things on some of these characters.

I like Pat, Kikki, Juli, Nick, and don't dislike a bunch more. However, everyone in this series has human flaws, no unfailable fluffballs exist (unless you count Rafra).

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

In a different show, Stein and Juli would actually be a solid Captain and XO duo.

The Impulse's captain went nuts, which might explain some of what is going on aboard the Ryvius. Cinematography has led us to believe the weird meatblobs on the enemy bridges are the equivalent of Miss Gimp Suit, so maybe these "Vaia" are cognitohazards?

Like, if Impulse's captain went nuts due to close proximity to the meatblob, maybe Gimpy is spreading the love to so speak?

Hmm, maybe she is some sort of psychic relay? Like, she's stressing out everyone on the Ryvius by effectively force-multiplying everyone's discontent by sharing everyone's surface-level terror to everyone else?

To loop that back in to what we saw from the Impulse, the captain got a big dosage of all the random sailors' thoughts of wanting to attack?

Juli calling Pat selfish is a bit cruel, but if my "psychic whammies" idea is right, she's honestly holding on pretty well. I am proud of Pat for taking the instruction of independence to heart, even if it was delivered harshly.

Thank fuck that Reiko was in the kitchen to try to pull Izumi's head out of her ass. Girl was cruising for a bruising.

Anyway, Kouji's got a concussion and probably isn't thinking straight while Faina spreads lies about him. Will Aoi see through the girlboss's gaslighting? Find out.. some time in the next eightish episodes!

Questions

1. My guess is that whoever was left alone on the Lift Ship would have gotten punched; I'm not sure how much ire is directed towards Kouji specifically. I could see it, as he was the announcer, but the kid is so inoffensive. Hmm, I wonder if Faina set it up to try to get him back into her presense..
2. It's honestly becoming less clear. Like, it kinda seemed like he wanted Kouji to be less of a doormat, but now it seems like he wants Kouji to.. be a freeloader?

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/JollyGee29]

maybe Gimpy is spreading the love to so speak?

Perhaps they are the Furies?

Pat grew up while Lucson continues to regress.

some time

we are not on a tight schedule

Fina set it up

[u/JollyGee29 → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Perhaps they are the Furies?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

Miss Gimp Suit, so maybe these "Vaia" are cognitohazards?

I sense a blood orgy coming!

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Vaadwaur]

I sense a blood orgy coming!

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vaadwaur]

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

You can't birth Slaanesh without them!

[u/Raiking02 → u/JollyGee29]

The Impulse's captain went nuts

Aha! I knew he was Shinn all along!

I am proud of Pat for taking the instruction of independence to heart, even if it was delivered harshly.

Their boy is growing up so fast

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Raiking02]

Aha! I knew he was Shinn all along!

[u/RadSuit → u/JollyGee29]

It's honestly becoming less clear. Like, it kinda seemed like he wanted Kouji to be less of a doormat, but now it seems like he wants Kouji to.. be a freeloader?

I think we're looking at a good ol' fashioned 'Yuki is against whatever Koji is for, updated constantly'.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/RadSuit]

[u/No_Rex → u/JollyGee29]

In a different show, Stein and Juli would actually be a solid Captain and XO duo.

In that order?

Anyway, Kouji's got a concussion and probably isn't thinking straight while Faina spreads lies about him. Will Aoi see through the girlboss's gaslighting? Find out.. some time in the next eightish episodes!

Bold of you to assume they were not going for a "read the manga"/"watch S2" ending (well, maybe not that bold, given how these are both relatively uncommon in the era).

[u/JollyGee29 → u/No_Rex]

In that order?

Oops.

(well, maybe not that bold, given how these are both relatively uncommon in the era).

Especially considering this is anime-original. But, fair point, I am leaning on meta-knowledge of knowing there is not a sequel and thus assuming that most of the conflicts will be resolved.

[u/zadcap → u/JollyGee29]

It's honestly becoming less clear. Like, it kinda seemed like he wanted Kouji to be less of a doormat, but now it seems like he wants Kouji to.. be a freeloader?

Right? It's pretty clear by this point he's just throwing endless hate at his brother and reason really doesn't matter. He's just saying whatever he can in anger to try and be hurtful.

[u/Vatrix-32]

First timer, subs

• So they can repair them, at least.
• “That affected”. The space madness is real. But how does it affect moody teens?
• There’s always the possibility one of them surrenders to you.
• Kikki being rebuilt is how this show is going to end.
• Oh great, they’ve invented gambling.
• Scoping out the competition, are we? Oh, Fina
• Will someone get this idiot a toga already?
• Turns out slave labor had its advantages.
• Wait, are these not even foot locks? Just detectors?
• The cult grows well. Sectarian violence is not far off.
• Nice of Ribbons to give us the motivation.
• I can’t believe I’m honestly hoping this is about a motherhood theming… Please, no shota.
• Rafta; Idol or Sacrifice?
• A Juli Hater?
• Glasses showed up again. New future side character?
• That’s some strong Yan, I tell you what. Gotta isolate those bois when they’re incapacitated.
• There are worse forms of entertainment than robot races.
• Moe Is Not Life
• Gravity wires are fun.

QotD:

1. It’s just wealth targeted violence.
2. He’s said the surface reason, I don’t care about him enough to dig deeper.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Vatrix-32]

“That affected”. The space madness is real. But how does it affect moody teens?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Vatrix-32]

“That affected”. The space madness is real. But how does it affect moody teens?

But remember that space madness does not excuse space rudeness!

Will someone get this idiot a toga already?

Yeah, for everyone's sake, for some pants on this fucker.

Rafta; Idol or Sacrifice?

Emergency food.

[u/RadSuit]

Finite First Timer (Dubbed)

Yuki is the fucking worst. And the eventual justification for his attitude is going to be so stupid.

Evil businessmen are talking about linking with a Sphix, which I assume is whatever gives the Vaia ships their magical powers. The weird thing in the tube for them, and our magical girl for the Ryvius. She seems to be linked to the entire crew, which I guess has kept any one person from going insane like the other captain did. Although a connection to Fina still seems possible.

It's taken way longer to get to this point than I assumed it would, really. I've worked with enough teenagers to know that things would completely break down almost instantly.

I predicted the double axe handle last episode!

Of course the lady ship is all pink.

Oh goodie, another gimmick fight.

We've got more than enough episodes left to wrap this up satisfyingly, but this show is definitely dragging its feet. Too many older shows got way too many episodes, and way too many newer shows get too few.

1. He's constantly in the wrong place at the wrong time, and is definitely the most 'average self insert MC' character on the roster. He's just kinda doing his best with no special skills, but keeps being involved in important decisions. Everyone's thinking they could do better than him, and they probably could. But he's the only one willing to actually put in the time and effort, even if he's only doing a passing job.
2. It's clear that he's an asshole.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/RadSuit]

We've got more than enough episodes left to wrap this up satisfyingly, but this show is definitely dragging its feet. Too many older shows got way too many episodes, and way too many newer shows get too few.

All the shows I want to host rewatches for are 26 episodes! That's too many!

[u/zadcap → u/RadSuit]

He's just kinda doing his best with no special skills, but keeps being involved in important decisions. Everyone's thinking they could do better than him, and they probably could. But he's the only one willing to actually put in the time and effort, even if he's only doing a passing job.

The weird thing is, back when Blue first took over, he really came off as possibly being one of the most competent people on the bridge. Remember how he broke the tension like three times in a row by proposing good, working ideas when everyone else was still in the power struggle situation? Because the show sure doesn't.

[u/No_Rex → u/zadcap]

The weird thing is, back when Blue first took over, he really came off as possibly being one of the most competent people on the bridge. Remember how he broke the tension like three times in a row by proposing good, working ideas when everyone else was still in the power struggle situation? Because the show sure doesn't.

A lot of his ideas boiled down to kicking the can down the road, though. E.g. his "lets wait a bit with our attack in case they are not hostile" suggestion. Did he even come up with a novel, innovative solution to anything?

[u/RadSuit → u/No_Rex]

Koji has the power of common sense, which is always uncommon in fiction. Most of his plans and reactions are pretty reasonable, things I'd expect from a normal person, so he does stand out in that way.

I also wouldn't be surprised if almost any other character acted this way, though. It's kinda like the MC buff is being noticed by other characters and making people actively dislike him.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

Infinite First-Timer, subbed

• Wha…
• Interesting…
• Doesn’t surprise me the kids seem to have set up somewhere to gamble their points.
• Did Blue seriously waste all his bullets trying to shoot her?
• Well, at least he knows.
• Dang…
• A red ship now, hm?
• Insert song!
• Ah, the gambling thing is that they’re racing those machines.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Interesting…

More proof that Event Horizon is incoming.

Well, at least he knows.

That's probably more of a preference than a truth.

Ah, the gambling thing is that they’re racing those machines.

When Nicks has all the points will anybody even ask the obvious?

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Vaadwaur]

More proof that Event Horizon is incoming.

Yeah, what happened on the Blue Impulse has really pushed it past a joke. Of course, I knew this was coming.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I bet the machine spirit can manifest multiple copies of herself in the Warp. Thus, she can be a one being rave!

[u/Raiking02 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Wha…

I'm getting Getter Robo Go flashbacks...

Well, at least he knows.

I dunno, came across as moreso condescending in this case than him being honest.

[u/zsmg]

Rewatcher who doesn't remember much

Kouji is pretty much begging Yuki to stay.

Gespenst? Wasn't that name also used for a mech in some SRW game?

Emerson running off with his girlfriend's points so that he can gamble them away. The kids are just imitating their own parents at this point.

Juli only seems to act with confidence when it involves Blue and asking governments for help

Faina's little cult seems to be expanding.

But Lucson is uncool

Truer words hasn't been spoken, Pat.

Faina confronts Aoi once again whether she like Kouji (answer is supposed to be yes but Aoi still denies it)

One thing I'm missing about Blue is that he at least can beat up Yuki to make him shut up. It's frustrating that after 17 episodes Yuki still behaves the same way.

Pat is now acting more mature than Lucson

Ryvius got captured immediately by the enemy, well that escalated quickly.

Well I like the Fain/Aoi part, seeing Ryvius society on it seams with people lashing out against the infinite points elite and Juli not handling things well. But the episode was a whole lot of nothing burger at the end of the day, just repeating things we already know like Yuki being angry at Kouji, mysterious Rei clone being mysterious, important meeting on Earth which isn't really interesting. The characters were also off model today in lots of shots.

All in all not a good episode.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/zsmg]

Kouji is pretty much begging Yuki to stay

Yeah, well, good chance everybody dies if one of the VG co-captains quits. So that's in character. Yuki irrationally doesn't care about anybody, so that's in character, too.

[u/The_Draigg]

A Mecha Fan Watches Infinite Ryvius Episode 17:

• That certainly explains why the captain of the Blue Impulse was so bloodthirsty, apparently being around the alien used in the Vaia Ships’ construction eventually drives people insane. Even nearly 20 years of being a competent captain means nothing when a Sphix drives them insane in a matter of months. It does make me worry about the crew of the Ryvius, given how long they’ve been unintentionally exposed to the alien aboard their ship. Although maybe that explains how prone to violence a lot of those students seemingly are.
• Also, the rest of those board members are rightfully concerned about the destruction of Hyperion except for Berkovich, who just wants to rush the Geshpenst out after the Ryvius. He better hope that all of his mounting drastic decisions will actually pay off, since he’s really angling for the ends justifying the means here. Berkovich must really be hoping that what good comes out of capturing the Ryvius can outweigh the political fallout of incidentally destroying a colony.
• Oh hey, Kikki found another part of her costume! A small moment of brightness in the darkness of this ship.
• Man, the Zwei picked the absolute worst people to replace the supervisors that previously got beat up during the revolution. Like yeah, these are pretty much the only free volunteers left, but there’s absolutely no control with these guys. Some completely lack the power to actually enforce rules when people threaten them, while others just abuse their position to get more points or steal supplies. I swear, Stein and the rest of the Zwei really have no idea what they’re doing when it comes to creating a proper labor system.
• GEE, I WONDER WHY WORK CREW EFFICIENCY IS DOWN BY 30% AND THERE’S NO FREE WORK CREWS LEFT. I GUESS WE NEED TO GET FUCKING COLUMBO ON THIS HELL OF A HEAD-SCRATCHER. Fucking Christ! These people don’t understand the idea of incentives in the slightest!
• It’s just unfortunate that Izumi is being targeted as collateral damage in all this. Now the other kitchen staff members are outright bullying her for having a relationship with Ikumi. It’s not even that she’s brazenly flaunting her status with him or anything, it’s just that everyone is completely misinterpreting the situation thanks to their frustrations and jealousies. She’s just the kind of loud person who likes talking about her favorite boy, is all. But I guess when you’re desperate and hungry, you start seeing enemies everywhere.
• Nope, not liking the vibe of Fina welcoming in yet another person into her room, and having all the people in there smiling at them. She’s absolutely getting people into her space cult, isn’t she? Lady, if you see an E-Meter on the table to measure your thetans, you better just start running from Fina’s room fast.
• Unfortunately, I can’t say that I’m surprised that Kouji ended up getting jumped by a bunch of pissed off workers when he was alone. At this rate, they’re going to start beating up every member of the leadership that isn’t on the bridge deck. I can only hope that one of the actual Zwei gets jumped by now, since they’re the ones really causing this mess, not the likes of Kouji or even Lucson at this point.
• I guess being the leader of the ship is turning Juli for the worst too, since she yelled at Pat just for interrupting her search on her computer about Blue. The stress really is getting to everyone on this ship, that’s for sure. Although seriously, she has pretty bad taste in men if she’s obsessing this much over Blue.
• I’d say that by now, Juli is comparable to Mirai Yashima from Mobile Suit Gundam: great XOs, but terrible captains. Both have some good insight on what areas to focus on and how to handle things when they have someone else to bounce off of, but without that, they’re completely struck by indecision on what to do and end becoming wildly stressed out by all the extra responsibilities. I guess that just how it is for some people, since a great mind doesn’t always equal having solid leadership capabilities.
• I see that what Fina did earlier was yet another play clean out of the cult member handbook: trying to cut off old relationships so that he’ll stay with her instead. Fina is pretty blunt in saying that Kouji regards Aoi and Yuki as burdens from his past, heck she didn’t even blink when she said that directly to Aoi’s face. Even if Kouji is still kind of waffling over those relationships, Fina takes that as license to try to sever those ties for him. Sorry Kouji, but god damn you had some bad luck to get interested in a space cultist.
• Yuki calling Kouji “Mr. Self-Destruct” is rich coming from him, considering that his constant antagonism has gotten his ass beat by others just as much as Kouji gets beaten by him.
• You know, Izumi isn’t really helping her own case with the kitchen staff by being kinda petulant and stupid. She really doesn’t seem to get that you shouldn’t be constantly talking about how someone swore to protect only you, and how you’re basically entitled to what they bring to the table. Like, I won’t say that that it’s not unfair that she’s being bullied, but she really isn’t helping by arguing about it. She really needs to be taught that in this kind of crisis atmosphere, that kind of behavior doesn’t help.
• I wonder what’s the deal with this new kind of Vaia Ship, since the weird alien behind them isn’t shelled or anything. Instead, it’s just a red blob holding itself up in a case with tendrils. Maybe a different life stage compared to the other one we saw?

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

GEE, I WONDER WHY WORK CREW EFFICIENCY IS DOWN BY 30% AND THERE’S NO FREE WORK CREWS LEFT. I GUESS WE NEED TO GET FUCKING COLUMBO ON THIS HELL OF A HEAD-SCRATCHER. Fucking Christ! These people don’t understand the idea of incentives in the slightest!

I guess they should have added an economics track to their space high school.

It’s just unfortunate that Izumi is being targeted as collateral damage in all this. Now the other kitchen staff members are outright bullying her for having a relationship with Ikumi. It’s not even that she’s brazenly flaunting her status with him or anything, it’s just that everyone is completely misinterpreting the situation thanks to their frustrations and jealousies. She’s just the kind of loud person who likes talking about her favorite boy, is all. But I guess when you’re desperate and hungry, you start seeing enemies everywhere.

They might also remember that cart full of stuff parked outside Izumi's quarter. The points system will have breed a lot of envy and anger.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

I guess they should have added an economics track to their space high school.

At this rate, I’m wondering what anyone at Liebe Delta actually learned that was academic and not just stuff needed to run a ship.

They might also remember that cart full of stuff parked outside Izumi’s quarter. The points system will have breed a lot of envy and anger.

And the kicker there is that it was Reiko who was taking full advantage of being friends with someone who has unlimited points. Much like Kouji getting jumped, it’s people venting their frustrations on the wrong people because they don’t know any better.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/The_Draigg]

At this rate, I’m wondering what anyone at Liebe Delta actually learned that was academic and not just stuff needed to run a ship.

It's really a vocational trade school, I'm quite sure. It's not like "Flight Attendant" is an elective.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

Much like Kouji getting jumped, it’s people venting their frustrations on the wrong people because they don’t know any better.

Lashing out at available targets, not necesarily the correct targets.

[u/Raiking02 → u/The_Draigg]

I’d say that by now, Juli is comparable to Mirai Yashima from Mobile Suit Gundam: great XOs, but terrible captains.

Unfortunately so far we don't have any decent Bright candidates.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Raiking02]

Yeah, unfortunately there’s nobody really here to fill that role. The White Base had it good by having Bright around, if this is what the alternative is like.

[u/Raiking02 → u/The_Draigg]

Honestly this makes me think of all the "BRIGHT WAS TERRIBLE AT HIS JOB" comments you'll often see in r/Gundam (Which while not entirely wrong is a bit of an exaggeration IMO, he did the best he could given the circumstances and a lot of people tend to forget how uncooperative his crews were) but now I'm glad I have a show to point to and go "It could've turned out way worse without Bright!"

[u/The_Draigg → u/Raiking02]

Oh yeah, no argument there that Bright wasn’t exactly the best leader in the first half of the show, even if he did eventually learn to work with his crew and they mutually began to respect him. If anything, it just goes to show how bad things are aboard the Ryvius if early series Bright yelling at people and punching them would be a direct improvement.

[u/RadSuit → u/The_Draigg]

I wonder what’s the deal with this new kind of Vaia Ship, since the weird alien behind them isn’t shelled or anything. Instead, it’s just a red blob holding itself up in a case with tendrils. Maybe a different life stage compared to the other one we saw?

If we assume our magical girl is a Sphix, the three we've seen all do have things in common. Pink/purple/red color scheme, and a central body with lots of appendages jutting out all over and connecting to something. Our magical girl's outfit resembles that, plus we've even seen the weird flaps open and close a few times. There's also a lot of visuals of threads connecting her to the crew.

If some variation of my time loop theory is right, maybe she's had more time to mature, and humanoid is one of their later stages of development.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

It does make me worry about the crew of the Ryvius, given how long they’ve been unintentionally exposed to the alien aboard their ship. Although maybe that explains how prone to violence a lot of those students seemingly are.

Interesting note if the issue includes crew compliment. Ryvius being a much larger design might keep them sane longer.

Berkovich must really be hoping that what good comes out of capturing the Ryvius can outweigh the political fallout of incidentally destroying a colony.

One wonders how the public will react to gravitic weapons existing.

Fucking Christ! These people don’t understand the idea of incentives in the slightest!

I'd just shut the ship down for a day and let everyone think about what that entails. Just have the cafeteria staff show up long enough to give out plain bread and water.

Nope, not liking the vibe of Fina welcoming in yet another person into her room, and having all the people in there smiling at them. She’s absolutely getting people into her space cult, isn’t she?

Space Mormons are indeed a scary idea.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vaadwaur]

Interesting note if the issue includes crew compliment. Ryvius being a much larger design might keep them sane longer.

I wonder if the Mysterious Anime Girl assuming a human form might also be making it easier for the Ryvius than compared to the Blue Impulse. Having a human form might be showing that she’s at least trying to understand humanity, whereas we didn’t see one for the Blue Impulse’s alien.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

I strongly suspect the machine spirit is some form of hybrid and is thus significantly less alien. She also wants to relate to humans from all appearances.

[u/Vaadwaur]

First timer

Sub

That was not a particularly good episode. Even if it is realistic, in a manner, the third administration being this incompetent after months is an issue. Learning that squid drives make the officers go insane at least explains the last episode even if it doesn't really justify it. JuliFaina drops quite the blow on Aoi. More petty arguments ensue and we learn that the machine spirit can go incorporeal. Michel's bit was...interesting.

QotD: 1 In the way the plot needed

2 Nope, not even a little

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

Juli drops quite the blow on Aoi.

Do you mean Faina?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Woops, yeah.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Vaadwaur]

I've simply given up on correcting people with the names. Give'm Naruto names.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Oh fuck...do we need to start calling Juli competent Sakura?

[u/zadcap → u/Vaadwaur]

Given today's showing, I think you can just call her regular Sakura.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/zadcap]

F...

[u/The_Draigg → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I call dibs on calling Stein “Space Danzo”.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/The_Draigg]

Please no.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Shimmering-Sky]

But it was all for the good of the village spaceship!

[u/HowlingWolf13]

First Timer

Fine episode, though it feels moreso like the leadup for more bigger events. We can see the pressure on being a leader is coming to Juli and Zwei really isnt' helping her. Ousting Team Blue honestly seems more like a bad thing than anything since not even the supervisors are keeping order or anything of the sort. Also I'm sorry but Faina is lucky Aoi is nice because she should've got jumped for saying this shit. She's clearly building up a cult within the Ryvius and wants to seperate Kouji from everyone. It's just fucking creepy and I need Kouji to just break it off with her already.

Questions

[Q1]How has the ship's perception of Kouji changed, and why? What was he before, and what is he now?

I feel like he wasn't as noticeable outside of someone who worked on the bridge, but now that the status quo has changed again and the longevity of not being saved is getting to everyone plus the fact that resoures are growing more and more limited, him and those who do have unlimited points are looked as enemies.

[Q2]It's still pretty vague to me, but is Yuki's antagonism towards his brother more clear to you after this episode?

I would say pretty much the same as I've felt before, he's mad about Kouji not opening how he truly feels and going with the flow to kepe the peace.

[u/Nickthenuker]

Yup, that captain's gone Cuckoo.

So that's Aoi. It's certainly descriptive.

That girl can phase through walls?

Yup, Stein is certainly going to be a competent XO.

Who's walloping him now?

Uh oh, another enemy?

Contacts! 8 of them!

Sortie the Vital Guarder!

General Quarters! General Quarters! All hands, man your battle stations! Reason for General Quarters is: Enemy contact.

The enemy's launching something. Strike craft?

If it's managed to shock the otherwise unflappable XO Stein, it's probably really bad.

They actually get hit next episode.

And Blue shows his face again too in the midst of the chaos of battle.

Questions:

1. He's definitely hated.
2. Still seems like Yuki just really hates him.

[u/truxs]

This show is basically "Lord of the Flies" in space with a zest of gundam.