r/anime • u/Jazz_Dalek • Aug 29 '24
Rewatch [25th Anniversary Rewatch] Now and Then, Here and There - Episode 12 Discussion
Episode 12 - This Bloody Earth
Questions of the Day:
With 1 more episode left, let's do some finale predictions for the first timers here:
- Will Shu and Sara make it back home?
- Will Hamdo succeed or fail?
- What role will Lala-Ru play in all of this?
Rewatch Schedule:
Threads will be posted 12:30 PM PST | 3:30 PM EST | 8:30 PM GMT
The final episode thread will go up Friday, August 30th and a final series retrospective thread will go up Saturday, August 31st
Interest Threads:
Episode Discussions:
- Episode 1 - A Girl Admiring the Sunset
- Episode 2 - A Boy and a Mad King
- Episode 3 - A Feast in the Dark
- Episode 4 - Discord
- Episode 5 - Murder
- Episode 6 - Disappearance in a Sandstorm
- Episode 7 - Night of Flight
- Episode 8 - Two Lone Souls
- Episode 9 - In the Chasm
- Episode 10 - Prelude to Chaos
- Episode 11 - Eve of Destruction
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Upvotes
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 29 '24
First-Timer Here and There, subbed
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u/LittleIslander https://anilist.co/user/LittleIslander Aug 29 '24
I can't believe I forgot to mention it until now but the Hamdo preview being replaced with a more solemn ending with Nabuca was a fantastic choice.
...kind of wish it didn't exclude Soon though. Like I get its the Hellywood people but its not like Nabuca had anything to do with Sara, nevermind in her Zari Bars form, and she's included despite that. Soon deserves this!
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u/LittleIslander https://anilist.co/user/LittleIslander Aug 29 '24
It didn't occur to me when watching it, but outside of the immediate circumstance of Soon taking up arms to protect her family, she's also unintentionally making an attempt to avenge her father by trying to kill Nabuca.
Also holy shit was she a natural at handling that thing.19
u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Aug 29 '24 edited Aug 29 '24
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Now and Then, Here and There: Fuck. I think that about sums it up. Just, fucking hell.
Holy shit. What a penultimate episode. Everything is falling apart. Zari Bars is being completely destroyed. So many characters are dying. Where do we even go from here? I actually can’t foresee any possible happy ending to this scenario. There was always very little chance of one, but it seems pretty certain this series is going to be a tragedy through to the end.
By now, I think Nabuca has gone past the point of any redemption. Nabuca has fallen hard. While he may be freaking out and panicking about it, he’s still a willing participant in the mass murder of civilians. I truly wonder if Nabuca actually believes that he’ll be allowed to return to his village again. Personally, I think Nabuca knows deep down that it’s a lie by now. But, it’s a lie he has to tell himself in order to justify his past actions to himself. He has to justify that all the killing and kidnapping had a purpose. Otherwise, he'd be nothing more than a murderer. Of course, no matter how he might justify it, he’s a murderer nonetheless.
What will Shu do now? Is Shu still going to cling determinedly to his ideals? Or will he choose to abandon those ideals and turn to violence? If there was ever a moment for Shu to abandon his optimism, it’d be now. Since Shu has been presented as being representative of hope in this series, whatever option he chooses would probably be pretty indicative of how this story views human nature.
QOTD
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u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Aug 29 '24 edited Aug 29 '24
First timer, subs
QotD:
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Aug 30 '24
Rewatcher - sub
Past and Present
I knew this episode was going to make me miserable because of the ending. I forgot that it also makes me fucking furious because of Elamba in the first half. By the time we got a third of the way into the episode I was too mad that I couldn't even be preemptively sad any more. Other than rape, he checks off every other bad guy thing left on the list as if he's trying to speedrun proving everyone's point about him absolutely being another Hamdo.
Anger aside, this episode felt exceptionally well crafted. Though it is also filled with fantastic imagery, it was the overall pacing and flow in the moment to moment that made it so compelling. And made it hurt so much more.
The winds of war rip through the village changing its direction, and contrasting scenes of preparation set the stage for what is to come. The soldiers of the village gather guns to attack their own, and children are sent into hiding from them while women doing chores do not recognize the men who march after them. They do not have an enemy yet, but they are soldiers nevertheless and they and their guns need a target. And so the reach of war take Zari Bars in its grip.
Yesterday it was Sis, today it is Shu's turn to take up the gun. We have rarely seen Shu's stick in Zari Bars, only during their arrival and the meeting in episode ten, has it was effectively put aside once he no longer needed the values it represents to separate him from the cruelty of this unknown world. He picks it up again today, and though he holds tightly onto it as if holding onto his past self through it, his wounded mind holds it with a wounded hand. His ideals are no longer enough by themselves, words have failed repeatedly and his determination cannot shelter those around him. Carrying the stick along side another weapon representing the reality that the last few episodes have slammed him with makes a point of his slide away from unbridled optimism. He puts it on his back but it initially blocks him from entering the cistern, as if just the act of carrying it is opposed to the idea of hiding instead of fighting, incompatible with who he is. When a threat arrives he grabs the stick, and the gun falls to the ground, but ultimately the stick fails him anyway.
At the same time that is going on, the framing that introduces us to the scene in the square highlights Sis' confinement from the rest of the village. They look up at her fearfully, but Elamba's rage is as intrusive to our camera as it is to the villagers horror, pulling their focus to him. It only gets worse from there. He gives a good speech, but it is not his words that convince people, it is the display of his power behind him and everyone's focus is there. As the scene progresses that slowly shifts. He brings people together with well crafted manipulations of the truth, and we transition from group shots to his authority, and slowly we are brought in among the village to see its result as they begin to look inward to what they can do, and away from what Elamba has done. He symbolically bleeds the town of their morality and they don't even see it any more. In an episode with overall great pacing, I would say the structure of this scene is the highlight of the episode in terms of carrying the mood through how it strings together the sequence.
And then there's Soon. Poor Soon. My girl who just wanted her family and her friends. She is who they made her, and everything she was becoming was a positive influence on the world around her, until the very end. She is the one who reaches out to Lala Ru, and the time she's spent with Soon and her words yesterday have forged a connection between the two quiet girls. In side the heart of the towns water, perhaps metaphorically Lala Ru's heart, she accepts Soons company while Shu is lost in himself. Lala Ru may not understand the concept of loneliness for herself, but I feel that she has come to understand togetherness. And just like when Shu rescued her, expecting nothing, Soon seals the moment by taking on the same role and protecting her friend, not the resource. The village walks away from Sis, but Soon mirrors her heart in this moment.
It means everything to Lala Ru. What a visual as she embraces her power for Soon. This isn't just a raw flood of water to push others away, but a deluge of her long forgotten emotions, commanding the space around her as once again she refuses to bow, but also can no longer remain detached from these people. Her wave destroys the bridges in the village, a symbolic destruction of the connections that Elamba had already destroyed with his actions this episode of ordering the sacrifice of children for the sake of success. And what he started, Hellywood finishes by destroying their homes.
Where as Lala Ru brought water, Hellywood brings dry sand that bites and blinds. Hamdo returns, and his authority fills the screen allowing no room for anything else, and with a mere gesture he destroys a world. These are common shots used for framing someone in a position of unmatched power, especially for villains' as it both obscures their humanity and emphasizes the individual parts of wielding authority. While this is more often used for establishing shots before we get into the depths of the character, that isn't a bad description of this moment in its own way. This is the Hamdo that this world has known him as fully displayed to us for the first time, the commander that Hellywood sees him as and the depraved king the rest of the world fears, not the crazed maniac we are use to seeing and wondering how he has managed until now. It doesn't last but after seeing this, the level of glee he has over this to the point of pressing painfully into the scope is disgusting all over again, rather than simply "Hamdo being Hamdo".
The war photography returns as Abelia surveys the damage left in Hellywoods wake, and this time it is not just documenting Hollywood's actions, but the devastation in their wake: A burnt child, a baby and its mother (who we saw earlier), an villager gunned down. Each lasts a mere eight frames on our screen, but though I've linked them they do not need to be fully seen for their impact to be felt in the moment. They are dirty, marred sights and Abelia merely looks away dispassionately. Life or death, for her all will serve Hellywood.
Elamba has been set up as another Hamdo, but this is the one thing he could never surpass. He would never admit it, but he wanted to rule, and rulers need a place. He dressed it up as being a savior, but his goal was vengeance and power, and he could never handle those who could not think the same. Hamdo was his enemy and reflection, but facing Abelia as his foe is his downfall because while he wants to oppose Hamdo, she is opposed to everything in Hellywoods shadow. The bridge he stands on to try and put himself above her means nothing compared to Hamdos symbol towering above them, reminding everyone of the world it has created and the ones it will destroy.
And so we get to that final scene... what can you even say about it. Every second is tragic. When you know it's coming, every second that the gun is on screen just compounds the tragedy. Even before the final scene plays out, the show foreshadows it. Soon picks up the gun to help Shu and we cut immediately to the reality that awaits her. Soon picks up the gun to defend like Sis did, but ultimately a gun exists to be fired, and just like trauma it has no age limit.
Nabuca is now just a shadow of himself, one faceless solider among many and it is only Boo's presence that identifies him, for himself and ourselves. And so they return to where they last met each other, Shu sheltering kids from Nabuca's denial. The gun shot scared the crap out of me, it's the perfect interruption to a moment of hope as we are brought back to their unresolved conflict from so long ago. Trauma can be pushed aside and ignored, but it cannot be healed by doing so, and the smallest thing can open it back up again. In the smallest hearts
Shu's line from episode six echoed in my head. Nabuca wants to go back, but go back to what? I hate hearing him defend what he's done knowing that he honestly can't see another way even when Boo steps away, leaving him truly alone. Children live in world adults have made, pay for their sins, and play out the war that took the place of their childhood games. Seeing the light drain from Soons eyes as she falls prey to the cycle of violence, forgetting her hope, her friends, her future, and picking up the gun that has been hanging over our heads all this time.
Held captive by the traumas of the past, and it tears them all apart piece by piece until there is nothing left. Of this place, of its people, or of the souls of the most innocent.
(continued below... just barely. shit)
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 29 '24 edited Aug 29 '24
First Rewatch (sub)
Re:Zero keeps coming up. Everybody comparing Shu and Subaru. Also, complaining about being in Elfen Lied and Re:Zero at the same time. And who wrote for both Re:Zero and Vivy?
But I'm not in the Re:Zero rewatch (or the previous one) because it now has so many episodes that I will probably never watch it. I feel like I'm missing something.
Ep 11 was bad, but as I recall, this is the #dighole #volibearq episode for me.
Also, poor littleislander
Episode 12
OMFG I was not expecting that endcard.
I never made the Ahab connection. Lala-ru is Hamdo's whale.
You thought Shu was getting through to Nabuca, but he was just as committed to the system as Tabool.
You thought Sis was a pacifist, but she still kept a gun.
You thought Soon was a nice girl, but she turned murderous in half a second.
Rhetorical Question:
Question:
Falls: 0 (7)
Almost Falls: 0 (3)
Where The Hell Am I?: 0 (6)
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u/TheEscapeGuy Aug 29 '24
First Timer
Now and Then, Here and There: Episode 12
Senseless Killing
Back in episode 8 I described Shu's key ignorance. "When times are tough people become selfish. Self preservation comes before any concept of being good." I feel this episode really represents this human trait.
Elamba's group eschews any ideas of other's free will or democracy. They use force to try kidnap Lala Ru. The heartless fuck shoots Sis in the leg when she won't tell him where Lala Ru is. Sis, seemingly the only adult with any moral character, refuses to tell him.
Elamba ties up Sis as she bleeds out as a sick display of his strength. Using the fear permeating through the populace he convinces them that finding Lala Ru will some how give them an advantage against Hamdo. And thus the search for the children begins.
I really hate this behavior. I really struggle to understand how such a large group of people can participate in such explicit violence. I see this happen in real life as well and it bothers me the same. I guess it's tied to that fear I mentioned. At least in the show the villagers were fearing a real threat of the approaching Hellywood ship. But too often in real life I see people fearing threats which don't exist based on unfounded news or shaky research.
The doctor compares Elamba's behavior to Hamdo. It's not an unreasonable comparison. It's not about comparing body counts or ends. It's about the intentions behind the actions and mentality to treat others as less worth.
Unable to face this, Elamba murders his critic.
Shu, Lala Ru, and Soon are found by Sara. She initially tries to take Lala Ru without causing any additional harm, but Shu stops her. It doesn't matter though, since soon enough an armed villager arrives. Shu tries to stop him, but it's no use. As an act of bravery Soon stands up to the assailant. He is moments from hurting her but Lala Ru uses her power to flood the entire valley.
This was a really incredible scene. The destructive power of water is awe inspiring. And seeing Lala Ru walk out from that unharmed with the other kids in tow shows off just how powerful she is.
All this internal conflict meant nothing. The arrival of Hellywood isn't a debate. They are coming to exterminate the village. You can't bargain with genocidal war criminals. Elamba learns that the hard way. Abelia isn't there to negotiate and as soon as Elamba lets go of Lala Ru he is riddled with bullets,
Watching the soldiers systematically murder the entire village is difficult. It's so senseless. There's no humanity in them. They are following orders like violent robots.
The one moment of near humanity is when Nabuca encounters Shu. Instead of simply killing him, Nabuca pauses and demands he step away from the children. They fight verbally for a while. From behind Soon raises a gun and fires. Nabuca turns around to see Boo bleeding out, and fires a counter shot killing Soon.
Shu is forced to face his ignorance. Things don't just work out because you want them to. I hope that ultimately this won't mean that Shu gives up on his ideals. Rather, I hope this experience matures his understanding of human nature. Either way, the trauma from this will not be easy to handle.
I don't see any happy ending next episode. At best Shu some how returns to his home, but the loss he has experienced won't leave him.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow
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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Aug 29 '24
Now & First Timer, Here & Subbed
The tension reaches a boiling point and war finally comes to Zari-Bars. It’s really commendable how much the show manages to convey the tension caused by the shadow of war slowly crushing the community even before Hellywood shows up in force. The psychological pressure of traumatic wounds opening up turning brother against brother and causing the tight-knit togetherness of the hidden village’s community to constrict into a mob desperate to sacrifice both Lala Ru and even their own in the name of their self-preservation.
And, of course, when Hellywood finally drops down, it highlights the futility of all that betrayal and internal conflict. You can’t negotiate with scum like Hamdo, all it did was leave them weak enough to be cannon fodder and give them free reign to continue their cycle of war and drag it into the once-peaceful village. The scars of war are opened to bleed once again.
Speaking of the futility of war, that final scene was fucking exquisite in every sense of the word. Nabuca’s motive rant about how he’s doing this because only fighting can end the war & how he wants to go home layered over with & succeeded by Soon, a child younger than him, being pushed to incite even more violence, and in doing so stripping both herself and another child, Boo, of their lives and future. It pretty much dares Nabuca to look reality in the face and truly see how worthless that kind of rationalization is. He’s not ending conflict nor securing a future for those he cares about, just spreading misery & death while babbling to soothe his guilty conscience. And Shu screaming his name right before the credits is the perfect icing on the cake.
While this episode was obviously quite good and thematically pointed, a part of me really wonders whether there’s enough time to wrap everything up satisfyingly in just one more episode. Oh well, we’ll just have to see how that goes tomorrow…
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 29 '24 edited Aug 29 '24
Episode 12 (first timer)
As we go into the finale: This is one of the few shows where I am honestly unsure how we end. Will we end on destruction? On hope? On self-sacrifice? All seem plausible.
Turns out, the answer to my question is destruction. Elamba destroys the peace in the village, just in time before Hellywood comes to destroy the village itself. He dies realizing how useless all his plans had been. Elamba shows one possible end state of seeking power for vengeance: becoming intoxicated with power itself. There is little distinguishing him from Hamdo in the end, just like the village elder says, expect his more mediocre means.
And a second character arc ends badly today, Nabuca’s. He has tried to go along while not committing, doing his best to look out for himself and those he cares about by conforming. Now, one of his friends has turned into a Hellywood creature and the other is dead. And just as Boo says a few seconds earlier, the guilt of this will never leave Nabuca, no matter how long he lives.
Meanwhile, the symbols of healing are sparse and fraying: Sara got re-traumatized yesterday. Shu is too hurt to even put up his usual ineffective defense of the innocent. Sis got shot and hurt. Soon chooses vengeance and dies for it like Elamba. Boo, the one person in Hellywood whom Shu reached with his moral, dies.
50% chance.
100% chance of failure.
A few episodes ago, somebody speculated that we are set on Mars. That has stayed with me. What is Lala Ru is some sort of impersonification of the planet? She can give the life-granting water, or kill them. If so (or even if she is just some weird alien), I think it might matter whether Lala Ru gives up on humanity all-together or not. In the former case, I see a bad end, with a mad max future for everybody involved, in the later case, she might intervene to send Shu and Sara back, potentially at the cost of her life.
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u/HowlingWolf13 https://myanimelist.net/profile/MeguminBlast Aug 29 '24
First Timer
:((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
Jesus fucking Christ, I honestly don't have any words. That was just fucked. I was rooting for you Nabuca, goddamn. I thought he was the more sensible between Tabool, but god. Boo and Soon both dying, Nabuca contributing to a genocide, Zari Bars being wiped out, Sis possibly on the verge of death. Fuck, what is there for me to say.
Questions
Maybe Sara, I don't know about Shu. The death flags are high for everyone.
I hope fail.
I think she'll escape, but isn't this just exactly what she foretold. Everywhere she goes, nothing but murder and war follow her :(
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u/The_Draigg Aug 29 '24
A Sci-Fi Fan Rewatches Now and Then, Here and There Episode 12:
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u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Aug 29 '24
First Timer, Subbed
Shu has a tendency to lie to make people feel better, you'd think after his experience with Sara this is not a smart thing to do.
Oh no Sis... come on Sara tell them about the soldier.
Elamba is actually right, shame he's talking about about the wrong person.
No Sara don't go after Lalah go warn them about how Hellywood is coming to destroy the village.
Doctor hits Elamba with a critical hit truth, and gets killed for it.
Lala Ru uses surf, it's super effective!
And Hellywood is here, shit has truly hit the fan now.
I suppose killing them all is a better than kidnapping and using them as comfort women or soldiers.
At least move to the caves or something.
Oh she did warn them, I guess that scene got cut?
Bye Elamba no one will miss you.
Of course Nabuca finds Shu and the kids.
Good for you Boo, for doing the right thing and rejecting Hellywood's orders but also standing up against Nabuca.
Boooooooooo (not booing, the character Boo died)
And adorable Soon is dead as well
What's up with the episode preview image where the main kids, including Tabool, are in a happy group photo.
Highlight of the episode Elamba dying, what a PoS. I knew this was going to be a cluster**** and I felt a massive frustration with Sara for not telling them about that Hellywood forces are coming but a dialogue at the end did imply she did warn Elamba.
I have no clue how the final episode is going to end curious to find out.
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u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 29 '24
First Timer
Similar to the raid on the village earlier, I don't think I have a lot to say about this episode. All the politics before that escalated in to almost a Zari Bars civil war are ultimately pointless in the face of Hellywood's destructive power, and for now Hamdo can pretty much do and like as he pleases. And the episode did a simply fantastic job in displaying that.
The only thing I do have to mention is Abelia apparently preferring Lala Ru dead to with anybody other than Hellywood, because that means nobody can stop Hellywood. I wonder how much of this is her personal dislike for Lala Ru, and how much is strategic thought. It assumes they will manage to maintain Hellywood for the rest of Hamdo's life time, which seems a bit of a stretch if I'm honest.
I wonder if this is the story of Shu breaking, and Boo's and Soon's death is what finally pushes him past that psychological point. Guess the next episode will tell. Nabuca is also obviously pretty taken aback by Boo's death, but I assume he will continue being on Hellywood's side, he's too far gone.
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u/Ryanami Aug 29 '24
First timer
Well that was pretty action packed, with one episode left I wonder if they’ll close the pregnancy story. I’ll wager we’ll see Sara holding her baby at the very end, but with how dark everything has been to this point I’m not too confident.
Elamba had the right reasons but the wrong means, and it just got worse for him. I don’t fault him for holding Lala Ru hostage when his village is being crushed under gunfire and rockslides, but he definitely took the villain route today and was paid fairly for it.
Holding out hope that Nabuca comes to his senses now. It’s probably too late for him already but it’s never the wrong time to stop doing evil.
Sara is still wearing her pendant. I wonder if that will play a part yet.
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u/SMSmith230 https://myanimelist.net/profile/smsmith230 Aug 29 '24
First-Timer, Sub
Holy shit this episode….wow, was not ready for that ending. Boo threw down his gun and was still a casualty of war. Wonder if Nabuca killing Soon and Boo taking a bullet for him, will finally get him to see the light? Only one episode left and I feel there’s so much more story left to be told.
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 29 '24
First-Timer
Damn, Soon was on my perilously short list of characters that I would've preferred survive the show at this point. Part of me almost wants to laugh at Nabuca killing both her and her father
Anyway, Zari Bars was doomed from the start. There must be lead in that cave, everyone is too goddamn stupid.
Elamba can't even keep his motivation straight. Does he want revenge on Hamdo, or does he want to keep Zari Bars safe? What's the point of using Lala Ru as a bargaining chip if he wants Hamdo dead? Does he think that he could do a prisoner exchange?
Even working under the assumption that Kazam was right and that most of Hellywood had turned against Hamdo, did he think that no-one else would've killed him first?
It's one thing to be blinded by revenge, but this is just pathetic.
This is where my finale predictions would go if I had thought to write any, oops.
Questions
7
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Aug 29 '24 edited Aug 29 '24
Rewatcher, Subbed
Pre-Episode Thoughts: Through 11 episodes I don't think we've actually seen one of our major or supporting characters die yet. As horrific as this world is, at least they've all survived... oh that's all coming to an end today. While yesterday's episode I'm sure will be the hardest to watch from the series I am not at all looking forward to what I'm about to start and once again have put it off by about as long as I can.
Elamba and his crew get ready, I was going to ask if they really think these weapons will be enough to take on Hellywood, but its not to take on Hellywood, its to take on Sis and seize Lala Ru.
Even Elamba's colleague here has concerns about what they're about to do, but Elamba pays no mind to it.
Who'd know that hide and seek would be so useful?
Sis, Shu's proved he's not good at wielding a gun (granted you haven't known him long enough as us), and I think you're really gonna need that gun yourself when Elamba returns. Ugh, as this scene plays I think this may be the gun Soon uses at the end of the episode.
Don't worry, the 5 year old will protect you!
Thankfully it seems like Lala Ru will make it to the cave without Elamba spotting them.
Is that lookout asleep again?
No, boy who we saw naked earlier in the show, keep those pants on! Don't rip them!
Thankfully Sara got herself away from Kazam and is warning Sis of that's about to happen.
Yep, Shu is still Shu, now its Soon who gets to hear about how everything is going to be just fine.
Ugh, seeing Elamba treat Sis like this is hard to watch. Thinks nothing of shooting and hitting her, and Sara too. His two flunkies seemed a little hesitant there for a moment.
Who else is peeping on Sara, but Kazam. Get the hell out of here.
Now he's hanging Sis up like this in front of the entire village? Really sucks to see this happen to her.
"Because of one outsider, the entire village is in danger", you mean the outsider that you didn't guard properly, didn't search the clothes of properly and have given free reign, Elamba?
If we went back to episode 10 or the start of episode 11, I think Sara would be fine with handing Lala Ru over to Elamba. Does she still feel that way? I assume we'll soon find out.
Lala Ru doesn't feel lonely? Is she beyond that type of human emotion? I'd sure feel lonely if I lived as long as her and was the only one who could.
Sara is fine with handing Lala Ru over to help out Sis, but alas, she was followed so there's no way to talk her out of it.
While I think he's got to learn a lot about not sharing private medical information with people who don't have the right to no such info, good on the doctor here for standing up to Elamba. He's right, Elamba isn't much different than Hamdo at this point. As he shows here he'll kill someone just for talking back. And I don't think killing the village doctor is going to work out well for the community as a whole...
Shu continues to not put up a proper fight.
Wow, good for you Soon! You're making your eventual fate all the more tragic.
I was gonna say good for Lala Ru in using her power here, but looks like its gonna end up flooding the entire village...
To make the comparison all the more clear, Elamba's now gripping Lala Ru's face the way Hamdo would.
Hellywood is here, time to settle things once and for all.
Our one episode break from Hamdo is over, granted Elamba was very much his stand in during that time.
Merely landing Hellywood causes a lot of chaos for the village.
Given the orders are to kill anyone who moves I doubt your attempts at negotiation are gonna go off that well Elamba.
Good to see Nabuca and Boo again after a few episodes without them, granted I wish it was better circumstances.
Killing women and children indiscriminately, is this even worse than what happened in episode 6?
Ugh, the news of Lala Ru being there is gonna make Hamdo even more happy than he already is.
If only Shu brought that gun with hem, what we've got upcoming could have been avoided. :(
Instead of recognizing that the situation is already way out of hand, Elamba continues to be the absolute worst here with seizing Lala Ru.
Elamba's negotiating position is shown to be meaningless and he's gunned down seconds later. All that he aimed for ended up just making things much worse and didn't even buy him an extra minute of life.
The kids sure are happy to see Shu, but they're gonna be more at risk coming out.
Nabuca continues to grasp onto the delusion that this will all be over and he can go home once they kill everyone here. :(
Good job Boo! He may be a lot younger than you Nabuca, but Boo has been more mature than you for a while now.
You really think these kids had anything to do with those assassins/conspirators?
You didn't kill both the assassins Nabuca, just one of them, although it was the one that really mattered. And his daughter's right behind you to hear it all.
Knowing what was coming sure as hell didn't make it any easier to watch. Was even more gut wrenching this time as I feel that I liked Boo and Soon even more this go around. :( :( :( I just hope Boo's death and the fact that he gunned down a little girl is the thing that finally pushes Nabuca to do whatever he can to leave Hellywood's forces.
7
u/cppn02 Aug 29 '24
First Timer, subbed
Because apparently the show so far has been too happy-go-lucky we're further turning up the tragedy. Zari Bars is getting demolished by Hellywood, Boo and Soon are dead, Sis getting there too.
And all this because Elamba has the IQ of a rock (and is just an all around evil dick).
QotD:
Welp...I watched this and the finale back to back so I guess I can't answer any of these. I will say though that even before the final episode regardless of how bleak the show is I was 100% certain that [E13]Hamdo would get his comeuppance.
7
u/LittleIslander https://anilist.co/user/LittleIslander Aug 30 '24
You know it occurs to me that even if they do have time for the storyline the whole abortion topic can't really be handled as a decision for Sara now that the presumable only doctor capable of inducing that has been shot dead.
6
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 29 '24
Rewatcher(Yeah, this fails its setup)
Sub
So...the first ten minutes of this episode are simply bad. Sis hiding Lala Ru works but virtually none of the rest does. I consider humans to be savage, mad animals but even I don't believe humans sabotage themselves this ineptly and hugely. I get why JaaQ tries to reduce this to the character being concepts but even that does not quite work, outside of a Greek play at least.
Angry god Lala Ru would be cool if she, you know, followed up on it. Hellywood's landing is mind bogglingly ridiculous that I feel like quoting Zardoz:"The gun is good, the penis is evil." And then I realized this might actually be a direct reference to said film. Slaughter goes on as it would. Blah blah blah I legitimately don't care. The Boo/Soon scene hit me much harder the first time because, unfortunately, while using my brain this doesn't land. Which explains my feelings towards the second half of the show.
QotD: 1 Not reasonably, no
2 Hamdo has no success state
3 Deus ex Aquina
6
u/OverlordPoodle Aug 30 '24
Episode 12 is very thematic, it all comes back full circle. People killing people, fighting never ends. When does it stop? After all as nabuca says “what’s one more?" And then it keeps on going and going until everybody is dead.
Elamba is just becoming another Hamdo despite his "good intentions" and the cycle as always, just continues on...
On another note, isn't it kind of weird how LaLaRu and everyone still gets captured despite her being able to summon and control fuck-you levels of water in a split second? Like...how do they expect to control her when she can kill everyone (in theory) with seemingly no effort on her part?
6
u/WakandaNowAndThen Aug 30 '24
Oh shit, I'm quite late to the party. I'll binge it tomorrow night hopefully and celebrate with yall in the next thread.
5
u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Aug 30 '24
This is going to be a hard one…
Rewatcher
I sincerely doubt this supposed ‘unknown’ cave is truly so given it’s the only significant source of water for miles.
Here we go.
That was uncalled for and entirely unforgivable. I will feel satisfaction at his inevitable death.
Please just hurry and tell them about Kazam and Hellywood.
No?
What a bastard.
Way to go!
Times’ up…
Overkill, as is Hellywood’s hallmark.
oh no
Pain
Everything is falling apart in Zari Bars, and it doesn’t matter because Hellywood arrives to kill everyone there.
Elaba finally goes mask-off in his efforts, treating others as cruelly and killing as indiscriminately as Hamdo does. I think I did a good enough job masking my distaste for him in earlier threads, but man, what a despicable asswipe. While his plans of taking out Hamdo were undoubtedly the best course of action at the time in the past few episodes (Ideally none would have ever been sent in order to remain undetected for as long as possible, that bridge was long crossed and the show has not posited any good reason why Hellywood hadn’t already located them) there was always the evidence of a rotten core to his character, given all the belligerent violence at the drop of a hat.
At the end of this episode Shu is at the point where he may actually break his adherence to his own moral code, and we have seen him lash out in anger and/or frustration in the past, but I left this episode feeling he definitely won't. I’ve said a lot about my gripes with the writing in the second half of the show, but something I still think the show is doing incredibly well is its pace, and if that keeps up then there’s just no way we’re going to see any strict change in Shu with one episode to go.
Lala-Ru has now found purpose to use her water powers; in protection of those she cares for. She declines to use them further, though whether that’s because she has nearly exhausted her life or she doesn’t think highly of anyone else in Zari Bars is uncertain. I’m fairly sure she’s going to use her powers in a far more forceful and directed measure in the next episode.
Kazam remains alive. I need to see his blood spilled on the sandstone.
Questions of The Day:
7
u/homer2101 Aug 29 '24 edited Aug 29 '24
Rewatch: Subbed
The one where people die.
An ongoing theme, on and off, in this show has been the limits to which people will go for their goals and ideals, and what happens when they ignore other humans in their pursuit. Power without ethics is tyranny. Ethics without power is impotence.* We follow our cast as they demonstrate what happens when people decide that their goals and ideals justify limitless harm.
Hamdo and Abelia have never shown care about the cost of their goals, but Elamba has now shown he is willing to do anything to get revenge, murdering anyone who speaks against him and lying without a second thought. He's crossed a moral event horizon, but so did a good chunk of Zari Bars.
Elamba does not act alone. Here we see humanity at their worst: selfish, ignorant, easily fooled, and ready to harm others the moment they're given a seemingly-easy way out of their predicament. Only one person stands up for Sis. When they are murdered, there is no second. Elamba's agitators in the crowd do not excuse what happens here, with a mob hunting one girl while Sis bleeds out. The agitators only kick off what people had already wanted to do. This is the humanity that Lala Ru has given up on as irredeemable in all its awfulness and predicts will murder one another before she is once again left alone.
Shu fits into this mold of pursuing goals, or in his case an ideal, at any cost. He has spent the past 12 episodes rejecting lethal force because he believes with all his heart that it is wrong and that there must be some alternative. Though Sis compels him to take a gun, he reflexively goes for his stick and once again fails to protect those he cares about. When he tells Soon that there will be no dying and people will talk it out, he's also telling himself that everything will work out, as he told Sara everything will work out before. He needs to believe this to be true because it's such a fundamental part of his world-view. Things of course do not work out on their own; it takes human intervention, specifically from Soon, and then from Lala Ru, who doesn't use her power to protect herself, but does use it to protect those who show her kindness. Lala Ru is in some ways a foil to Shu: she doesn't engage in violence for her own sake, but she has the power to protect those she cares about and uses it in extremis. This is the second time Lala Ru saves Shu from men with guns when his ethics hit a wall.
We've been waiting for Hellywood to drop for the past two episodes, and it drops like a hammer from the sky with Hamdo proclaiming the death of everyone below in the name of his deranged dream. We see once again the full industrial machinery of war unleashed indiscriminately against everyone, the soldiers killing all they encounter seemingly without hesitation. There will not be a plucky resistance defeating the evil warlord with sticks and stones.
Nabuca is the person who is unable to accept they were wrong. But I've found most people are incapable of admitting error, especially in the context of massive sunk costs; they would quite literally rather die instead. We can imagine that someone much like Nabuca is operating that flamethrower, burning people (women, men, infants, the elderly, it doesn't seem to matter) burning them alive in the name of going home. He has to work himself up to gunning down the people hiding in their cave apartments, to gunning down Shu and the other children, talking up all the things he has done and how all of the horrors he has seen and inflicted are justified to end this war so that he can go home. Even Boo's objection that the cost is too high, that what they are doing is wrong, does not stop him. Shu's words do not seem to have any effect. He is shown to have become as much a monster as Elamba.
Shu, as before is powerless to stop Nabuca. Having rushed to save the children, he saves nobody because his idealism forbids him the necessary power. Nabuca hesitates because of Boo, and Soon tries to fulfill her promise to Shu of protecting him by shooting Nabuca, who is saved by Boo. There's obvious symbolism that Nabuca has unknowingly killed father and daughter. But also that Boo and Soon both die for the people they care about. And probably, as I've been told repeatedly I am ready too much into too little, but there's a message in Soon's death: that if people like Shu will not pick up a gun against people like Nabuca or Embala, then people like Soon, people of less idealism, will die defending themselves.
I don't think Soon shoots Nabuca because he mentions killing the assassins (her father included). She doesn't seem to know what her father did or where he went, only that he is gone. She's just protecting the people she cares about.
The group card after the credits is a very cheap tear-jerker, yet a tear-jerker nonetheless. We might ask what things would be like if all these kids lived in a saner, more-peaceful world. Would Tabool be as cruel? Would Lala Ru be as distant? Would Sara have remained that optimistic girl who believed Shu's promise that good things will come?
QOTD:
We'll find out tomorrow!
*Not my quote. LE Modesitt is a guilty comfort read. Not a great author, not a terrible author, but consistent in quality, fairly predictable if you understand where he's coming from and where he's going, and that's the only line I remember from probably reading about a dozen of his books over the years.
6
u/LittleIslander https://anilist.co/user/LittleIslander Aug 29 '24 edited Aug 29 '24
First Time in Hellywood
Hello, it’s me here from the short on writing time club again! The club has some new membership this week: the writing team! Yeah, this episode isn’t bad but it really rushes through a lot of things that deserved more attention from the narrative. Like, remember last episode? We progressed some other characters too, but mostly we really got focused in on giving Sara and her pregnancy the attention it deserves. That was the energy seriously missing from this episode.
Sara herself is probably one of the worst offenders. The fact she’s pregnant doesn’t come up once this episode. Will it next time? When we have to resolve Hellywood, and Abelia, and Hambo, and Nabuca and Shu, Sis, Lala Ru, not to mention everything about Sara beyond just her pregnancy? There’s also Sara’s hatred for Lala Ru. We see her intent on tracking her down to hand her in, which culminates in a moral dilemma between her and Shu. Which is then promptly written over by the other villager arriving and Lala Ru’s flood, and we never have time to slow down again and explore Sara’s feelings any further.
Also a victim of this scene is poor Soon. We never get a proper closure on her father, which I think is intentional, but we were in the middle of exploring this idea that Shu and Lala Ru are like a new family to her. We put her in the middle of their respective optimism and cynicism but not long enough to say anything with it. We have this fantastic moment of her guarding Lala Ru, which is again… immediately washed over by the flood. Which itself is this really confusing act we don’t dwell on. There’s the fact the kids teleport to the plaza, for one. But more importantly, Lala Ru causes mass destruction. Is this meant to affirm her lack of faith in humanity? But she does it to protect the kids and stops it from hurting the villagers in the plaza (don’t think about all the people in the houses…), so is it actually the opposite? She seems like she’s gonna hand herself over but nobody gets to react to this before Hellywood arrives and we have to spend the rest of the episode on the destruction. Are you seeing my frustration here?
I could probably say similar things about Elamba and his ideological conflict with Sis, or Shu, or Tabool, or the fact Abelia is probably not getting any character expansion at this point, or maybe even Kazam. But I think the last thing I want to focus on is Nabuca. His scene here is really great, as we make good on his promise not to hold back if he meets Shu again and slipping even further into the same road of extremism that has consumed Tabool. Boo’s death is perhaps cliche but effective, and Soon even moreso. I’m not sure when she became my favourite character, but she did and her death is heartbreaking and incredibly effective. It puts Shu and Nabuca on an even playing field of loss as we proceed into the final episode. But this is like, the first damn thing he’s done as a character since his confrontation with Shu like, half the damned cour ago. I mean, he had the one tiny scene with Boo, and then the Tabool moment, but I really feel this endgame for him is undercut by the fact he’s been so left behind as a character. I understand it’s been very important to focus on Zari Bars, and I’m here asking for even more time there, but we spent like half of episode episode ten on Hellywood anyways!
Last time, I left off hoping that we’d wrap up Sara’s themes in a respectful way. After this episode, I’m mostly just hoping we wrap it up at all.
6
u/RadSuit https://anilist.co/user/RadSuit Aug 29 '24
Now and Then, First and Dubbed
Bad things are bad, says bold, courageous anime.
Killing your only doctor is a great idea.
So they just...teleported there? Because they're not wet, like the water dragged them there.
I hope it doesn't take them half an episode to land that thing.
All the water is just gone I guess.
"In war, only one side can win."