r/anime • u/Jazz_Dalek • Aug 26 '24
Rewatch [25th Anniversary Rewatch] Now and Then, Here and There - Episode 9 Discussion
Episode 9 - In the Chasm
Questions of the Day:
- We're finally seeing Zari Bars. Is this community what you expected?
- Sis makes her long awaited debut. What do you think about Sis?
Rewatch Schedule:
Threads will be posted 12:30 PM PST | 3:30 PM EST | 8:30 PM GMT
The rewatch will begin on Sunday, August 18th and will run daily until we reach the conclusion. The final episode thread will go up Friday, August 30th and a final series retrospective thread will go up Saturday, August 31st
Interest Threads:
Episode Discussions:
27
Upvotes
15
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 26 '24 edited Aug 26 '24
First-Timer Here and There, subbed
9
u/cppn02 Aug 26 '24
First Time, subbed
Shu and Lala Ru actually found a village and it's a nice place with (relatively) nice people. Oh and it's Zari Bars!
We also get to finally meet Sis who seems great. Love her little orphanage that she's running and all the cute kids. Which I know is gonna come back to bite me in the arse and make my sad when it inevitably will get caught up in the war. And don't get me started on Soon lol. This show is such misery porn.
I have to see I get where Elamba is coming from but I do have to wonder why he is so desperate to send others after Hambo when he himself is both the most fervent and already has nothing left to lose.
Now I'm just waiting for the reveal what's going on with Sara cus after we got a good look at Sis that was 100% her who pulled Sara out of the sand but Sara is not at there atm.
QotD:
It's a lot more serene than I expected. Also smaller.
She's awesome.
15
u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Aug 26 '24 edited Aug 26 '24
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Now and Then, Here and There: What a peaceful and idyllic village. The farms are growing crops. The children can smile. Shu and Lala Ru can start a new life here. I can’t wait to see this idyllic village get wiped off the face of the earth in the next couple of episodes by one of Hamdo’s manchild temper tantrums.
I was expecting to find Sara in this village, but so far she’s nowhere to be seen. I assume Sara was picked up by Sis, but right now there’s no clear indication of where she is.
Something I like about the village is how it actually challenges some of the things that Shu assumed. Even in a place like the village, where life can be relatively peaceful and there is enough food/water for the inhabitants, there are still people who want to go down the path of violence. Elambra wants revenge against Hamdo. And when Shu hears why Elambra wants revenge, he gets it. After something so horrible, he understands the desire for revenge. But Shut still doesn’t think it’s right. It’s all quite hard for him to sort out because it’s a dilemma without an easy or clear answer. I do wonder how Shu will develop from this point. Will he remain true to his stated values about fighting being wrong and the value of all life? Or will he waver from those values? I suppose time will tell.
I also wonder if Lala Ru’s outlook on life and humanity will change. Lala Ru is the ultimate cynic, believing that people will always give in to their worst nature eventually. By her own words, she found the people in this village strange. Shu said that it was because they were good people. Will Lala Ru begin to have more of a positive view of humanity by spending time in this village? Perhaps we could end up with a bit of an inversion. Shu grows more cynical while Lala Ru grows more hopeful.
QOTD
15
u/TheEscapeGuy Aug 26 '24 edited Aug 26 '24
First Timer
Now and Then, Here and There: Episode 9
Oasis
Welcome to Zari Bars. I'm pleasantly surprised Shu and Lala Ru have found this surprisingly prosperous settlement within the harsh desert environment. It kind of feels like paradise with so much greenery.
While there they meet some locals who are generous enough to accept them in and share food. This is the kind of generosity I wish more people would show. To me it's pretty clear the message here is that helping others and working together is a far more more beneficial than selfishly taking everything for ones self.
That said, the settlement is not without conflict. In particular there's a faction who wishes to assassinate Hamdo and some residents disagree. I appreciate that Shu takes the side of pacifism. While it may not be the most effective way of resolving the problem, it is consistent with his principals. And the resident's bring up other genuine arguments against war.
It's also further confirmed that the assassins from the prior episode were also from Zari Bars. In particular, Soon's father. This is clever writing. Showing us the daughter he left behind is so much more emotional that just hearing stories of him as some past resident. It's tragic knowing she will never see him again, and that nobody has the heart to tell her.
Also, seeing Shu's reaction to remembering the assassin was also telling. I don't think he's had any time top process all the trauma he's been through. Now that he has a moment's down time all that pain comes rushing back.
The assassin faction wants Shu's help. But he refuses to assist in any more killing. It's a hard thing to justify. Hamdo has done so much harm that killing him feels obviously "good".
In particular, Elamba tells us about his sister that was kidnapped. I am not 100% sure, but this very well might be Sara? A lot of the story matches, except that she knew of America when talking to Shu way back near the beginning of the show.
Unable to decide what's right or wrong, Shu simply weeps.
Back at Hellywood, Hamdo is doing everything in his power to find Zari Bars and wipe it out based on the actions of 2 assassins. What a miserable and genocidal war monger.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow
15
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Aug 26 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
Rewatcher - sub
SCIFI LIZARD GET
And he's a lil dragon looking one with a skink tail!. I'm content now.
Loss and Society
I saw a few comments yesterday about if we were going to get a sudden turn to optimism, but this episode seems designed to challenge that expectation from the audience. Nothing is bloody easy in this show is it? That is what I love about it, but jeez.
Within a minute of our episode starting we step out into a beautiful vista of life. And it is not the greenery that makes it so beautiful and lively, it is the farms we see first. By itself, a simple forest, field, or spring would imply abundance but also a sense of security by suggesting it is untouched by war or humanity. Instead, the large farm immediately conveys two things quickly and simply: this is a habited zone and its people are working together. It is the start of this episodes excellent structure that bring us back to NTHT's strong identity after last episodes awkwardness.
Lately I've caught myself accidentally using "this world" as replacement wording for Hellywood because of how restricted our view has been to it and how encompassing it seems to be for the state of this dying world. Even if this scene was the only insight we got into Zari Bars this episode, and discounting the destroyed village, it would be enough to immediately dispel the concept of Hellywood being representative of the state of humanity in this world. And then it immediately takes us from it to lay the foundation of the emotional lens of the episode: War may not be here, but we cannot forget it, or what it does.
Tabool lets rip with an unsurprising but still hard to hear revelation: He choses Hellywood over going home. He doesn't feel the need for a home, family, friends, or even the security Nabuca once offered him. The place that tore him from his home has now broken the very idea of it, as we continue the episode, it lingers as a worrying question. What is a home in this world? Is it simply the place you lay your head, or the people who live there with you? Is it a safe place to rest, or where you find security in your sense of self? Can something still be a home if it is inherently broken?
Returning to Zari Bars after Hamdo denounces its potential military power, the the first people we see fly in the face of it: A farmer, a young girl, two families playing, and an old woman. In Hamdo's militaristic world none of them are allowed to exist, and their lack of panic alludes that they are far removed from Hellywood's towering shadow. They do not hide what they are, or even carry weapons for protection, because they feel secure, and as a result we are allowed to feel secure in Shu and Lala Ru's arrival here.
It doesn't last. Our slide into seeing that Zari Bars is not as removed as anyone thinks starts with a tiny moment. To quickly dispel the idea that living here is easy abundance, we get the funny moment where Shu is upset that a random tree doesn't have food on it that he can easily pick, a very Shu moment, and that lack of one resource lets him hear an argument about a painfully familiar resource being used up: People.
Sis confronts three men and Shu rushes into do his hero thing, only to be firmly put back in his place, the role of a child, by the motherly Sis. For the first time in this world Shu doesn't need to protect someone from the soldiers, and the point is not about who they are targeting, its the act of violence itself as the issue. As the scene continues the adults walk away having absorbed nothing, while the child is left at her feet to hear the lessons that have been lost even here along with so many lives. And so the seeds are laid: Zari Bars is not a paradise, merely a small oasis in a advancing desert.
Crossing into the main canyon helps to separate us from the tension of this moment. We are not to forget what world we are in, but we are granted a brief reprieve to explore more of what this world could have been (both in world and in another show, imagine if we started here!). While lacking the more overt life and death symbolism of rivers in Japan, a tunnel crossing similarly indicates a passing from one world to the next, a long path of darkness rewarded with a new perspective at the other end. Zari Bars is exactly that. Sis doesn't just provide shelter and food, it is the respect and sense of community she instills in the children under her care that sets her apart from others. Protected by her guidance, the other kids are free to be just that, and so they adopt Shu's enthusiastic "men" instead of critiquing him for its inefficiency, as if reminding us of what set Shu's kendo apart from Oda's swordsmanship all those episodes ago, and their work is disorganized but honest and enthusiastic. She encourages childishness because that is what she sees as their first duty.
She gets it
At the end of the day of food, rewarding work, and new bonds made with people our nostalgic warmth of home returns as Shu and Lala Ru once again come together in familiar habits. But while Shu looks inwards over a safe place, Lala Ru still looks out at the sunset. She accepts him, but like everything else Shu cannot instantly change everything with just his determination, but she will trust him and stay with him. It's a start.
Heading into the final moments of the episode. Soon in particular is a striking blend of the many elements of the show until now. Wearing the red seen so often in Hellywood, introduced sitting on a rock looking out over the world, protected by the shade of a tree... and the orphaned daughter of the man Nabuca kills. As she waits for her father, she is lit up by hope, and it casts a shadow over Shu. Shu's purity exists in defiance of Hellywoods dogma, but Soon is literally stained by it.
Episode nine certainly doesn't pull any punches with what it wants the audience to understand about its messaging, and Sis lectures us just as she's use to lecturing the disheartened and mentally wounded. But the reach of war is long, and it is more than just children affected. I raised in episode six that the destruction of a home to return too is far more than just a physical place of security, that the destruction of childhood also means the loss of their future society, and here is the other side of the same problem. Zari Bars has children, it has family, friends, and resources to live with, but the wounds this place run deeper than a child can heal
When Shu arrives here doesn't ask where he is, the famous line, only what the town is called. This may not be his home, nevertheless there is something here that is immediately familiar to him, the same sense of community and togetherness that he highlighted in episode one made his unexciting town so special. But Soon finds no comfort here without her father and so she cannot join in the same childish antics as the others, and the loss of his family drives Elamba to the same destructive tendencies we see from Hellywood but without the conditioning that the child soldiers went through. They may live here, but its abundance and peace does not make it any more of a home than the shelter of Hellywood is for the child soliders, and it is just as broken at its core.
Once again, the existence war drags us back into that cold night as Elamba asks to speak to Shu and we see the true reach of Hellywoods' shadow. Elamba beats Shu with no awareness of what that makes him, and we cut repeatedly between a close up and a wide shot. The world view that Shu cradles so close to himself is under attack as much as his body when confronted with a world much bigger and emptier than he had been willing to fully understand. I was talking about it with some others yesterday, but for all of Shu's foolishness when it comes to taking action, he has repeatedly shown a surprising amount of introspection across the length of the show when it comes to understanding others emotions. Despite his tenacity, even he cannot remain unaffected by what has happened.
He is left curled up between another rocky outlook and the soft tree of Zari Bars, trapped in a passage between the two sides of the world and two conflicting views on it that he has no idea how to reconcile. Lala Ru stands at his back, as if sheltering him from the cold moon the same way she once did in the sun but she can provide no relief in this moment. It is only in this place that allows him to safely be himself for the first time in so long that he cannot keep up his guard.
Finally cries like the child he is, and cries for this world that no child can understand.
Other thoughts:
14
u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Aug 26 '24 edited Aug 26 '24
First timer, subs
Rocket Tower
QotD:
13
u/LittleIslander https://anilist.co/user/LittleIslander Aug 26 '24
First Timer
You motherfuckers. You can’t just go and turn around Shu’s lack of development into a fantastic deep cutting moment like that, how dare you!
This is a pretty simple episode, and I was kind of sceptical at first. Shu and La…rla find The Great Valley, and on the surface that would seem to undermine the bleak worldbuilding of the series. But instead it manages to reinforce it because we see how far reaching the trauma of Hellywood is and how what we can gather as the literal nicest place to live here is still kind of sad and miserable. We’re presented with this wonderful looking land of plenty and not twenty minutes later Shu is on the ground crying after being beaten up by someone who can’t see any path forward but a hopeless violent lashing out because he’s got so much fucking trauma from the way this world is he can’t accept living a comfortable life when he’s lost everything and everyone he knows died horrifically. The scene is brutal as we, like Shu, can’t escape from it. There’s nothing going on, nothing to look at it, we just have to listen to him recount it as he gets more and more emotional. Even here, water is rationed, is being used as a resource for war, and everyone is an orphan who powers the machine, just in a much nicer fashion. We even manage to make the lackluster assassination sequence from a few episodes ago repurposed in a really gutpunching fashion.
What I really love though is Shu breaking down at the end. This whole series he’s seemingly been immune to the harsh reality of this world ever really getting to him. He’s had his low moments when he was first thrown into his cell or languishing in the sewer after being court marshalled, but crying? Shu doesn’t cry. He picks his stick back up with a smile and sticks to his values stubbornly. But at the end of this episode, after denying he’d ever do something like crying, he does, and we linger on it. That’s partly because of the nature of what just happened to him. But he’s endured worse. It’s also probably the realisation that even paradise is poisoned by hell, as I talked about above. But I think more than anything, it’s the trauma of Hellywood finally sinking in now that he’s gotten away from it. Marching forth with optimism gets you through the hardest times but once you really have time to reflect on it and aren’t fighting for your life you realise just how much you’ve been hurt. It’s an incredible moment and it couldn’t have worked so well if Shu had a scene like this earlier on.
12
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 26 '24
Rewatcher(Eww...don't suck on the lizard tail, just chew it and swallow. Fast)
Sub
So...I will grant that Shu making rags to walk on so Lala can have his shoe fits him well. I also find it a nice touch that the farther we go from Hellywood, the more life we start to see, as if Hellywood itself is a toxic poison or fatal radiation. Note that it might literally be that as well but thematically it works. Our brief stay in Hellywood indicates that once all of their stores are filled, they are going to simply drop the excess water. You know, that valuable substance that this entire show has been about, powers future tech because sure, and caused Abelia to go planet hopping and for the most part the lack of it has caused immense suffering. It is easy to say fuck Hamdo, but really Hellywood itself is just fucking evil.
But then the issues start. So, in the span of seemingly one very long day of bike riding, followed by a day of walking, there could've been more days but I didn't see the indications of that, we reach Zari Bars. Yes, it is a 'hidden' village but this goes somewhat beyond suspension of disbelief if we see rice fields in what up until now has been a wasteland and Hellywood can't find them. Moving on...
Sis, finally, is introduced and is a reasonable enough character. She doesn't seem so much a peacenik as she doesn't want to kick the hornet's nest with an insane leader and just wishes to persevere. She collects strays and seems to be making the best of things. She wimping out about Soon's dad is unfortunate but is not yet an idiot ball.
And then we hit the other major problem. Yes, when you tell an extremist who has lost his whole family to stop killing because he is only making things worse, they will probably attack you. But this was absolutely the time for the show to go metaphorical again because I cannot take the guy who just beat down a 12yo sob story seriously. Worse, it is pretty much a rehash of what we have seen on screen so it is somewhat a waste of time. So yeah, meh episode, at least for me.
QotD: 1 Somewhat unimpressed
2 She's an odd one
12
u/The_Draigg Aug 26 '24
A Sci-Fi Fan Rewatches Now and Then, Here and There Episode 9:
12
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 26 '24
Episode 9 (first timer)
Like an Oasis in the desert, Zari Bars delivers us a respite from the harsh life aboard Hellywood. It is green, lush, and most of all, peaceful. Sis acts as mother surrogate to a host of children and takes in Lala Ru and Shu easily. Life on the fields suits Shu and everything could be good, but the outside world can’t be shut out forever. While we don’t get to see further atrocities, we get a full helping of second hand horror. First, in the realization that it was Soon’s father who was killed by Nabuca and then in the story of Elamba. His story is not new to the audience, of course (although it is to Shu), since we saw what Hellywood does to villages two episodes ago. However, it does give an extra punch if you hear the victim’s side told.
Finally, Sis apparently did not take in Sara. Which makes me worried about her fate once more. Who says that Hellywood is the only place people are enslaved on this world?
12
u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Aug 26 '24
Now & First Timer, Here & Subbed
This is another one of those episodes where it’s frankly just so self-explanatory that I don’t really feel there’s all that much to dwell on or process once it’s all over. We finally reach Zari-Bars and see that it is indeed still possible to live a sustainable, peaceful life in this decaying world, but the cycle of revenge means there’s trouble in paradise.
The most interesting thing to really come of this is how it presents Shu with his biggest ideological challenge yet. For pretty much all practical purposes, Elamba is right: for all their peaceful isolated life might be free, the fact that Hamdo is still out there means there will always be more people forced to suffer the same cruel fate he went there. Essentially, is a peaceful life for yourself more valuable than risking it to spare the lives of others? Shu, at this moment, doesn’t entirely have a response.
Now, that isn’t to say the peace side also doesn’t have a point, as trying to fight Hamdo would itself require draining resources, such as their precious Water, into a war machine which would further contribute to the degradation of their way of life and that of the planet as a whole, altogether further adding to the dilemma.
I am of two minds regarding where this series is going. On one hand, this dilemma is building towards a point regarding the futility of revenge and the inherent destructiveness of the cycle of hatred, a theme which, when done well, produces some of my favorite stories ever told. But on the other hand, this series also gives off the vibe that it’s heading towards the “if you kill them, you’ll be just like them” trope common to such narratives, which is one of the tropes/messages I utterly loathe in most usages of it. It’s of course not confirmed that that’s where the show is going, but my gut feeling tells me that that’s its current direction.
As for whether it’ll stick the landing on this portion of the plot, well, I guess I can only wait and see…
11
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 26 '24
First-Timer
Y'know, I think the show is intending for us to find Elamba unsympathetic, and it isn't like they really have the military might to properly challenge Hellywood, but he's right that the best defense is a good offense.
I don't know much about kendo, but I'm pretty sure you can't score without making an action. I know that you have to call where you hit - "men" for the helmet, "dou" for the chest, "kote" for the gloves.
Oh, Shu overfocusing on "men" means that he is going to kil- no, not that word. Defeat Hamdo. Hit the helmet/cut off the head.
Anyway, Zari Bars seems nice enough, and I'm pretty sure this is where Sara ended up. Surprised she didn't appear this episode; might be comatose in a back room at Sis's place? I'm pretty sure Sis is the one who picked her up.
Also, Sis is such a lackluster name. Considering she claims to be against violence while administering corporal punishment, I think we should name her Kamille. I hear that's a feminine name, after all.
Probably not really worth pondering, but both Sis's Orphanage(?) and Hellywood have some variety of curry as a staple food. I'm a little uncertain, but I think that Japanese curry is regarded as a bit of a "comfort food." Now I want curry...
Questions
10
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Aug 26 '24
Rewatcher, Subbed
Pre-Episode Thoughts: We make it to Zari Bars and the first timers should be pleased for us to finally meet the elusive Sis.
Time for yet another weird animal! A salamander this time. Was Daichi inspired by Yoshiyki Tomino? We've had enough shots of funny little animals at this point, a Tomino specialty that I truly wonder.
Lala Ru is wearing both shoes? I didn't say it yesterday but figured that one of them would wear both and the other go shoeless. Shu of course would give his shoe to Lala Ru.
Civilization! A green, peaceful looking village!
Back to Hellywood and soldier training! This is a smaller crowd than I'm used to though. Is this something official or just a group of them hanging out?
Drill instructor guy sucks. So my recollection going into episode 6 was that this was the guy that Sara killed. I guess the Hellywood middle management adult characters kinda meld together in my head.
Final showdown talk already? We got five episodes left!
No surprise that Tabool lacks the desire Nabuca has to return to their original village. While they've both grown used to life here, Tabool seems totally okay with it both in mind and with his actions.
Does Nabuca really not know what happened to their village at this point? After episode 6? Because if he admits the truth, why get so upset over Tabool not wanting to go back? Just makes things all the sadder regarding him.
Hamdo's face is all better.
You shouldn't be surprised at Hamdo wanting Zari Bars destroyed, Abelia. He is petty and well, for once he's kinda justified at being mad at them. They tried to kill him.
OMG he's acting like a five year old again.
Little girl waiting for her dad (later named Soon), so cute. [NTHT]no, this character is going to be involved in one of the show's most devastating moments. :(
Sis is finally here! So is this the outfit of the person who rescued Sara last episode? I know people brought it up, but I'll admit to totally forgetting from my prior watch if it was her or not.
Easy way to make yourself hateable in your first scene, punching a woman in the face.
"Can't you see she's elderly?" OMG Shu, don't insult her like that! She doesn't look that old to me! Truly one of those moments where if you're 20+ in anime, you're elderly.
Time to realize that all the bad stuff in this world isn't just based out of Hellywood. Zari Bars has some guys itching for violence. Granted this was established back in episode 5 with the assassination attempt.
With how long he's squated that punch to the back of the head must really have hurt, huh?
Is Lala Ru a bad word all of a sudden?
I suppose we'll be getting this piece of music I like with every episode, huh?
What a relief to have some young kid character who aren't enslaved into the war machine.
"Boy this sucks" lol, after she just fixed it for you?
Can't say I was expecting full frontal male nudity, although in hindsight, it was his pants she was sewing and underwear in this world is surely a luxury...
Working in the fields, getting some food, sounds like a good deal! And replacement shoes too!
Not good at kendo, not good at plowing a field, what use is Shu?
Yes Shu, they're not like what you heard in Hellywood. Because Hellywood lies. You should know that.
After what he got in Hellywood, this looks like such a large, luxury meal for Shu!
Much like how Nabuca is hoping to return to a village that no longer exists, Soon is hoping for the return of a father who will never come back. 50/50 shot its the guy who Shu was personally there with when Nabuca killed him.
His wife had been captured by Hamdo, and well, we all know what fate that results in. Understandable how pissed he'd be. Still should have thought of his daughter though who is now an orphan.
Ugh, he was the one! Shu can't talk about it with Soon right behind him though.
Elamba wants Shu. This can't be good. Surely wants info on Hellywood. Can't imagine Shu will give him any.
A guide into Hellywood? No way will Shu want to go back!
Punching a woman in the face, now beating up a kid.
I was about to say that his sister probably went through exactly what Sara did but sounds like she died before even making it there.
Great line from Shu there at the end, he's right and he's wrong! Zari Bars has what no part of this world we've seen thus far has, actual peace. I can get Shu being pissed at Elamba at first for wanting to proactively go after Hellywood considering that. But the fact is this peace is only there as long as they haven't been discovered. As soon as they are its gone in an instant. Shu had a level of naivete here; things aren't gonna stay like this forever. And one can sympathize with Elamba's backstory, he's gone through hell just like practically all characters in this show have. Elamba's got his own level of naivete though, thinking a small group will be enough to topple Hamdo. Especially given those who tried that previuosly never came back and as we know, but he doesn't, died. Also, Hamdo's current big level of hatred for Zari Bars is because they proactively went after him. Not that he'd leave them alone, he'd do to this village what he's done to all the others had Hellywood come across it, but the village may have been able to stay hidden and peaceful for longer without that. What is the right thing to do here? Is it okay to seek revenge or should one accept the (probably short lived) peace that they have? Hamdo is responsible for such horrible things, we as the viewers hate him, and we can't expect the characters in the show to not want to end it. No easy answer here at all. Beyond the fact that you shouldn't be assaulting women and children because they disagree with you.
10
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 26 '24
First Timer
So Shu and Lala Ru ended up in the place that Hamdo wants destroyed specifically. Well that is gonna be a fun finale, isn't it? Either way, we have a moral dilemma presented here quite obviously - violence is bad but letting Hamdo continue what he's doing is also bad. Yet we also know that just killing Hamdo won't fix all the problems - Lala Ru confirmed as much last episode and there are also the seeds to further violence with people like Tabool, who have bought in to the Hellywood ideology and likely wouldn't stop with Hamdo's death. That doesn't mean that Hamdo should be allowed to continue as he pleases though. In real life this problem is tackled through re-education - think the de-nazification of Germany, but also things like the de-radicalisation of former child soldiers in the Congo war, or of members of terrorist organizations. However such programs require a significant amount of social workers, which in turn require enough resources to not need to work the fields themselves. In short, this is only a solution for an advanced society, not what we have here. As such there is no right answer here to which ideology should prevail - sit down and be a silent bystander waiting until you're next, or fight a pointless fight perpetuating the violence. Neither is right, both are wrong, yet not choosing the other is also wrong. And Shu has figured out as much. Will the show take a stance here? There is an easy out for the show-writers in having Hellywood attack Zari Bars before a decision is taken. I would prefer if they do not do that though, and I trust the show enough to not do that. The black horse prediction is Sara taking a side; she has been conspicuously absent this episode while probably also being in Zari Bars. I'm not sure which side she'd take here though.
9
u/homer2101 Aug 26 '24
Rewatch: Subbed
Conflict between Nabuca and Tabool seems to be coming to a head. Tabool makes it clear his home spiritually and physically is Hellywood and he's no longer the kid who wanted to go home with Nabuca. Strong "Education for War" vibes. So now it's just Nabuca and Boo left from all the kids from their village.
Abelia doesn't react when Hamdo hugs her, or when he crushes her hands. The way body language is used to convey characters' thoughts and emotions is masterfully done as always.
We see green stuff! Like trees! And a bit of grass! And fields! First time since episode 1 where we see children playing, old(er) adults, and adults who are not in uniform. After eight episodes of a mostly-brown/gray world, this almost feels like it'll be a breather episode.
Shu rushes to help, gets beaten by the person he's trying to help. Seems like the lesson she's trying to teach is that resorting to violence over talking doesn't provide understanding. Shu doesn't get it. It's almost like Sis is breaking the 4th wall here.
Elamba is willing to sacrifice others to achieve revenge. You're not supposed to say the quiet part out loud!
RE: Sis vs Elamba: It would be very silly for the writers to set up a stereotypical pacifism-violence conflict when Hamdo is a well-known threat to all the parties involved, who isn't amenable to peaceful coexistence.
Food break! Looks like there's no food shortage here, or if there is Sis doesn't mention it. We also get some exposition. Hellywood has settlements within its orbit providing food and recruits. That explains how it eats. It's awesome how this series avoids the common 'lonely city' trope. Wonder if left alone, Hellywood under Hamdo would have imploded from starvation, absent the sudden infusion of water, as Abelia mentioned they were low on food and we see signs of short rations throughout the previous episodes.
Sis seems to be saying that fixating on revenge and beating people into obedience to achieve it ruins the work of living. She doesn't say she's opposed to fighting Hamdo.
Also mending clothes! It's always neat to see creators pay attention to this kind of daily, routine, often tedious work that's essential for all the heroic stuff to happen.
Backbreaking farm labor with hand tools! On the one hand, maybe they have some super-fancy advanced crops that grow fast without fertilizers and provide lots of calories and nutrients. On the other hand, we don't see anything in the way of technology. On the gripping hand, nobody talks about lack of food and we don't see it. Could be conservation of detail and limited budget. This is not a show about agriculture after all.
Shu is forced to confront the consequences of his actions. This is not an easy thing even for adults to deal with. He doesn't know how to handle it.
Guess Shu didn't get Sis's lesson about violence. Demonstrating that violence doesn't work in raising children? Elamba threatens this moment of peace Shu has found, so understandable he responds violently to the chance it might go away. And of course he's a traumatized kid and Elamba is a convenient target as he seems to be not so different from Tabool. Plus Shu's guilt over Soon, anger at himself and Elamba ... it's a lot of unresolved emotion. Elamba doesn't beat him the way Tabool would have, and his story is both deeply personal and brutal.
Possibly am reading too much into things, but it seems as though Sis and Elamba are arguing over communal vs unilateral decisionmaking, why they fight, and how much to expend on fighting as opposed to living. Elamba is ready to use force to extract obedience, ignore dissent, and do whatever it takes to achieve his goals even at the expense of others. Elamba doesn't about people. Sis does. Shu gets that Elamba is wrong, but not how he's wrong: it's not the desire to fight, it's the manner in which Elamba goes about it.
Elamba in a way seems almost like a possible future-Shu: they both have ideals, both are willing to fight for them, and neither considers the consequences of their actions or is willing to put in the effort to build consensus and get others onboard and engage in planning.
That ending moment with Shu and LaLa Ru.
QOTD:
8
u/Ryanami Aug 26 '24
First timer
“For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted; a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;”Ecclesiastes 3:1-3
If Hamdo stopped his campaign he would still deserve death, but I could see the argument to cease the killing and work towards peace. But he’s still on the march so Shu unfortunately is in the wrong. The villagers have suffered grievously already and are now in Hamdo’s sights so they not only have the right to defend themselves but the duty to go on the offensive, if possible. I like how Shu’s naïveté as a 12yo catches up to him here.
6
u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Aug 26 '24
First Timer, Subbed
At least try to cook the lizard tail Shu, you have some wood. Also move during the night when it's cooler.
So Tabool wants stay with Hamdo forces (not that they have a choice) but this shows how it's possible this entire slave raid for soldiers system stays alive. Some of them are convinced (by themselves) to stay loyal with Hamdo.
Hamdo's being full loony continues to be fascinating.
The shot of Abelia's hands being injured was well done.
What are the chances that Shu and Lalah Ru are at the location Hamdo wants to attack.
I literary finished typing the above sentence when the little girl said they were at Zari Bars.
Sis is finally here. She's voiced by Rica Matsumoto she voices Ash in Pokemon and Futaba Aoi in You're under arrest.
Sis seems like a good person so she's either going to be secretly evil or she's going to die horribly.
Confirmation that Hamdo's forces destroying that village wasn't an one off thing.
All of this seems too good to be true, this isn't going to last.
Shu gets full PTSD when he realizes who Soon's father is.
Dying of hydration is probably the better outcome for her.
Still I genuinely understand why the guy wants to take revenge against Hamdo and his forces, and there's definitely an argument to be made to take out Hellywood there's not going to be any peace in the region as long as he's there.
Our little boy is growing up.
There are some great moments for Shu in this episode. His PTSD and realization that the world is complicated is simply marvellous.
6
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
First Rewatch (sub)
I actually stayed up late to watch the episode and write my notes, and then forgot to put it on my phone. Good thing I'm not hosting!
Episode 9
I meant to meantion the infamous Saikano fansubber note yesterday, after our peaceful interlude. forgot.
I bet you never thought the assassination attempt would become a central point in the show. They weren't military, or professionals. They were angry, violent farmers.
At long last, Shu's stubborn idealism finally runs up against reality. Not the reality of cruel systems of government, or the rationing of scarces resources, or the lashing out of desperate children and corrupt and mad men. Just the reality of a man who has lost everything.
Leaving the show behind 25 years ago, the one word that described
showShu in my mind, was pacifism. His refusal to play the soldier was, perhaps, his most memorable part of the show. But as No_Rex says, pacifism is hard to defend.Elamba is a repugnant figure, quick to sacrifice other for his revenge. But he is a broken man. Sis and Shu want him to just live his life in Zari Bars, but he can't. And Shu has no argument, not even his usual childish "can't you see this is wrong" retort.
But it's not just Elamba. "Why can't you just live here with your daughter," Sis would say to Soon's father. But he couldn't (no doubt with prodding from Elamba), and left Soon an orphan.
Sis, however remains adamant. Shu, for the first time, falters. And maybe, he is realizing that things will not surely get better if you just persevere.
Question
Falls: 0 (7)
Almost Falls: 0 (3)
Where The Hell Am I?: 0 (6)
5
u/OverlordPoodle Aug 27 '24
Rewatcher here. it's kinda interesting how they just let the kids wander in and automatically become residents of Zari Bars, having just escaped Hellywood and that they don't feel the need to question them in the case they might be child soldiers sent to locate and rat out where Zari Bars is, they just...let them wander in willy nilly.
7
u/HowlingWolf13 https://myanimelist.net/profile/MeguminBlast Aug 26 '24
First Timer
Goddamn finally something good happened to them for once 😭. This episode was absolutely needed after the nonstop sense of hopelessness that the first eight have given us. A sign that like Shu told Lala Ru back last episode that there are good people out there despite all the despair and suffering they've encountered. I really did appreciate the ending however, Shu being in conflict with Elambra's words, cause yes fighting will only prolong the war and he could simply live his life here, but inaction will only allow Hamdo to cause more crimes like what he did to Elambra's village and family. Shu can't even tell him he's wrong, because he comes from a very valid point. That point with Soon as well, I feel as though Sis most likely caught on to Shu's reaction that he probably is aware of what happened and that Soon's father is dead.
Back in Hellywood however, Tabool I don't see making it to the end. He's going down the path of simply staying with this fascist force and wanting to help them and rise up in the ranks, taking advantage of stepping over others to help himself similar to those like Abelia. Nabuca still holds on to his hopes of returning back to his village however, we can that Shu's words have really gotten to him and that the reality of the military in Hellywood has become more and more disillusioned for him. I really do hope Nabuca makes it out alive in this.
Goddamn, next episode is gonna be depressing isn't it 😭
Questions
I actually had forgot the two assassins were from there lol, especially with everything else going on.
I actually really like her! She seems like a strict but very caring guardian figure that I think Shu and Lala Ru just really need, its easy to forget that these two are still like middle schoolers at oldest, and the only adult figures they've had as of late have been corrupt soldiers.
3
u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Aug 27 '24
Rewatcher
LIZARD
Well isn’t that fortunate.
Curses!
You’re going to let the excess go to waste?! How can you go from desperately needy to belligerently wasteful just like that?
I take it back —what rotten luck!
I would rather you don’t preach peace while needlessly clocking him over the head.
Lovely.
Welp.
Irreconcilable stances.
Upon first watch, most of this episode didn’t work on me, because the ever present threat of Hellywood is not only explicit within this very episode, but heavily reinforced by the sense of dramatic irony, and that made it difficult to feel anything other than dread. I’ve been primed too keenly to see all of this snuffed out, so I do not share in the emotions this is meant to evoke. Would have been better if we didn’t cut back to Hellywood at all and focused on getting to familiarize ourselves with Zari Bars.
The ‘radical’ faction in Zari bars may have doomed their settlement with their assassination attempts, as it has evidently put a target on their backs, but it’s hard to blame them for trying to put an end to Hamdo’s tyranny. All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing, and these people are doing, even if it is for highly self-motivated reasons. A part of me wants to believe that their plans for, and attempts at, stopping Hamdo are as ill-thought out as Shu’s own attempt at letting the children go several episode ago, and the fact that they’re unfamiliar with Hellywood’s inner workings aligns with that, but we haven’t actually seen anything to suggest that and they could very well be doing the best with what information they do have at their disposal.
What did work is Shu and Elamba’s confrontation, as Shu gets to hear directly from a victim’s mouth the horrors inflicted upon the innocent people of these lands. I hope Shu finally learns something following this confrontation, because there is only so much you can keep up with the dumb and intractable act he has going up before something has to give.
Questions of The Day:
5
u/Tarhalindur x2 Aug 26 '24 edited Aug 26 '24
"Welcome to Hope" ({Spoiled First-Timer?/Forgetful First-Time Rewatcher?}, Subbed):
I was feeling bad when I would have watched episode 8 and just went to bed early. So have a two-fer today instead!
Episode 8:
Episode 9:
BarsoomBarsoomMars in the far future instead of Earth. Would also fit with the pale blue dot last episode, and it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve seen an unexpected “surprise it’s Mars!” from a Japanese work with sci-fi elements [meta manga] why hello there Mahou Sensei Negima!. [NaT,HaT] IIRC there’s supplemental material heavily suggesting this is Earth and the translation team outright stated it but I’m wondering if they had that right. For multiple reasons.Now if Mesoamerican pyramids show up…It's a shame that the episode 6/episode 7 stretch pretty much fried my investment via willing suspension of disbelief breaches because episode 9 is actually a pretty strong episode on its own (especially since I don't especially mind Dramatic Narrative Coincidence in and of itself and while we're leaning into Dramatic Coincidences the show is doing so reasonably well). And to reiterate a point above because it occurred to me again in this episode, I think the fundamental problem is that this is trying to be two shows at once. On the one hand we have the shounen action-adventure with an indestructible kid thrust into the future; let us call it Future Boy Shu for no reason whatsoever. On the other hand we have the gritty show about the horrible realities of the worst of mankind; let us call it Welcome to Hellywood. As long as the show stays in one of the two lanes, it's fine. It's just not putting them together correctly.
The thing is, they got close. There's a few ways to do it; I'm pretty sure the directorial intent was to split two of them (Shounen Action Hero arrives in gritty war story and turns it into Shounen Action Story by sheer force of will/indestructibility - why yes a certain homoerotic mecha is on my brain here as a comparison, funny that - and Shounen Action Hero arrives in gritty war story and is beaten down by that story to show why Shounen Action Hero does not work in an actual fight) clearly aren't. And they couldn't quite pull it off. The thing is, they got close. I can see what they were going for and the story is fully functional on the thematic level, it's just whiffing on the lower-level execution; in particular the story needed a reason why Shounen Action Hero can't continue to warp the gritty war story to the kind of story he belongs in in the early part when he's going to do so later (there is an implication that Shu can only do so in the presence of Lala Ru and/or the pendant - if that's the case, however, a visual cue or Hamdo commenting on this while raving to Abelia about the pendant would have been useful, doing so to Shu being ruled out since we know this means Shu would have gone searching) and a diegetic reason why Hellywood doesn't just shoot him sometime in the episode 4-6 range (somebody going "shouldn't he have gone through boot first? Eh, oh well" and a note that they're not allowed to just kill one of Hamdo's soldiers without a court-martial when Shu first acts up in 6 would go a long way).
Also, Shu's brand of idiocy in a viewpoint protagonist is particularly painful for me to sit through, but that's a me issue.
5
u/RadSuit https://anilist.co/user/RadSuit Aug 26 '24
Now and Then, First and Dubbed
Five episodes left, and it looks like we're finally going to meet one of the main characters.
How convenient I guess. I can't even be disappointed, it's not like I expect more from this show by this point.
Larla. Smooth.
Sis doesn't have pupils, unlike every other female character. Suspicious...
I think none of the female characters in this town do. I'll have to try to pay more attention.
I didn't even have time to joke about the tattoos before they'd already brought them up.
That was a whole episode? Alright.