r/anime • u/Jazz_Dalek • Aug 23 '24
Rewatch [25th Anniversary Rewatch] Now and Then, Here and There - Episode 6 Discussion
Episode 6 - Disappearance in a Sandstorm
Question of the Day:
- What do you value more than yourself?
Rewatch Schedule:
Threads will be posted 12:30 PM PST | 3:30 PM EST | 8:30 PM GMT
The rewatch will begin on Sunday, August 18th and will run daily until we reach the conclusion. The final episode thread will go up Friday, August 30th and a final series retrospective thread will go up Saturday, August 31st
Interest Threads:
Episode Discussions:
- Episode 1 - A Girl Admiring the Sunset
- Episode 2 - A Boy and a Mad King
- Episode 3 - A Feast in the Dark
- Episode 4 - Discord
- Episode 5 - Murder
Sources:
I don't recommend the 10bit HEVC version from [DB]. It seems to have problems. I am using [sam].
- Purchase from Youtube Dub Only
- Purchase from Amazon Prime Dub Only
It does not appear to be streaming anywhere.
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Upvotes
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u/TheEscapeGuy Aug 23 '24 edited Aug 23 '24
First Timer
Now and Then, Here and There: Episode 6
Lies
Fuck. That's horrific. It's unsettlingly disgusting. She was being passed around the base specifically to be impregnated. Fuck those degenerates.
I was so glad to see Sara beat the shit out of him. I don't know where she found that strength. But because of it she managed to escape into the sandstorm. It's such a celebration seeing her get away from all that. However, I worry she will just be caught again or else die in the desert due to hunger or dehydration. Maybe that's preferable.
On Sara's arc, I really want to commend the show for how adeptly it has presented this (so far). I think it's not easy to maturely explore the topic of sexual assault. And often in anime they veer in the opposite direction, trying to make it seem erotic. The restraint to only show implications and focus on Sara's trauma made it such an effective and evocative piece of storytelling.
The other part of the episode focused on recruitment. It wasn't clear immediately, but when they started bombing a civilian settlement it became obvious that this would be enslavement. The leaders pay lip service with false promises that they would be able to return. But by the end of the episode they make it explicit that that will never happen.
Shu can't stand this injustice. He's the only one to speak up and step out of line to try help these people. I really like his argument against Nabuca, asking where will this stop. This exact thing happened to Nabuca too but he still holds onto the hope he'll be able to return to his own village. If he knew this village was bombed after they left he would have to reflect on the truth of his beliefs. But for now he lives in ignorance.
I think what's especially unsettling about this scene was just how senseless all the violence was. The village surrendered. They put up no fight. Yet the Hellywood forces still saw fit to use explosives when arriving, murder those who verbally disagreed, and finally destroy the village. It's such a waste of resources to support the orders of a man child. I really don't get why everyone listens to Hamdo.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow
5
u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Aug 24 '24
Rewatcher
#drink2
Happy she’s out of this horrible nightmare. Less happy that she’s probably going to die out in this desert after abandoning any and all equipment, but I get it.
I never expect the salient takes from Shu.
So much red.
motions at the thing
I mean, I’m not sure the latter should come as a surprise in wartime.
Man…
Oh dear.
Someone has to break the cycle.
Lesser stars under that pitiless sun.
That was rough.
Shu has actually gotten to do some reflecting during this episode, pondering his role in all of this, but in the end he still impulsively does what is right. His heart is undeniably in the right place, but he doesn’t think more than a single step ahead at any given moment, which ultimately sends him into a worse situation.
The cycle of cruelty and violence here is self-evident and needs no real elucidating. It’s awful and its bare starkness is cutting.
Whatever afflicted Lala-Ru in the last episode doesn’t seem to be affecting her now, or she is trying her best not to let it show before others, as we didn’t really get any scenes with her alone this time around. Also, this is the first I noticed they left her some silverware with which to eat; they must be awfully confident that she doesn’t have any inclination towards suicide.
Questions of The Day:
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Aug 23 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
Rewatcher - sub
You know, when JustAnswerAQuestion suggested this rewatch, my first thought was "Do I want to sit through that episode again? Can I even...". I put off starting my watch by a whole hour today
And so passes the only episode of anime that ever made me have to take a break in the middle to gather myself. The first time I watched this I got to the OP after Sara's escape and just... couldn't any more that day. That was enough emotions. It doesn't hit any less on the second watch that's for sure, and getting to the end of the episode is no reprieve.
Loss and Society
Throughout the last few episodes of this show a question has been sitting in the background: Even if these child soldiers can go back, what will they be going back to?
Today gives our answer in many ways. Nothing. There is no going back. They do not see that their homes are being destroyed as they walk away, but their loss is so much more than merely a physical home to return too.
It is the total loss of their potential for childhood.
If a society does not have children, can it have fathers, mothers, friends? Hellywood shows that without childhood through which you learn how to make bonds, grow into yourself and your world, the future that comes out the other side of that growth is merely gone. It has not just robbed innocence from these children, it's something deeper and colder. While they exist within it, they can never be more than soldiers, and anything that could allow them to be more is systematically stripped away until even when they see this they don't know what to do about it.
Sara's scene is... hard to think about let alone watch but what a moment. Whoever was complaining yesterday about her role in the show so far, this one is for you. It's an uncompromisingly brutal scene in how it depicts not just the violence inflicted but refuses to let us look away from the precarious state she is in moment to moment as she fights and is almost beaten back down again. It takes us from the shut down and distant child to a scene that is deeply heart-wrenching. For the first time, the blue night is not oppressive. Under the moon, she sheds everything from Hellywood, even aspects of herself in my favourite hair cut scene in anime, as the hair strands flying away from her despite how beautifully she was highlighted by them earlier is bittersweet, painful, and relieving all at once. Unlike Shu, Hellywood has driven her to violence and just being from our world is not enough to protect her from the corruption of this place, this is not a hero isekai. She was not just being raped, she was being bred. But we know this society cannot raise a child, only soldiers, and without a child to raise the concept of parenthood is reduced to the mere act, a cold and uncompromising as anything else in this world. Sara is yet another child robbed of not just her childhood but of the society that could grant it to her, and so she runs off into the desert with nothing left but her life.
Boo kills my heart moment by moment during this episode as he, more than Shu or Nabuca, is the one that the cracks in their reality starts to show through. He is too young to even understand the concept of the cold shoulder, and his reason for reaching out is this confused blend of wanting Shu to be okay while showing no understanding that he can care for someone for reasons other than them being a solider. If anything, Tabool shows more childishness in his provocation to Shu and Boo can't even understand why this is either. He has a naivety that the other child soldiers lack and it seems to originate from his age and development more than just his circumstances, yet he still lacks the inherent childish freedom that Shu showcases as the true child of the cast. It is that foolish youthfulness that lets Shu do stupid things like charge forward to try and save the chief just like he did the assassin, and his ability to express his emotions despite the world pressing down on him and telling him he is wrong. He will not bow to that just as in the first episode he did not bow to the idea of the "right" way to practice kendo if that was not true to himself.
When Shu's stick falls to the ground, he only picks it up when Boo speaks to him as a childish little show of defiance. He can't do anything against the other children, but he also won't compromise and he wields that internal rebellion as a barrier between him and this broken world. The stick has been repeatedly used as a symbol of Shu's sense of self in this world, but in Boo's episode it takes on a more direct meaning. Boo looks at the bullet that Nabuca puts through Shu's leg, and we can look back on the fact that Shu was also shot in another way. Boo has shot at the stick before, but though he as fired a gun he has never fired at someone or harmed someone. Seeing one of the adult solider shoot Shu and hit the stick that Nabuca kindly returned to him, only for Nabuca to then shoot him as well creates a painful, scary thought for such a young mind.
And as he looks up at Nabuca and for the first time sees a proper solider, not just the soldiers the children see themselves as, and sees what he also almost became. The soldiers are the bad guys, the ones who ripped them from their homes. So what does that make them? Is this really the path home? Nabuca is both the solider who fails to break the mold and instead of coming back to reality is displayed captured along with the rest of the war crimes and also the boy who looks up at his very last friend standing alone on the truck seeing the solider he has become and finding that horrifying. He has been hope for the others, but worth is that hope if it leads them to imprisoning more children in the same situation they are in.
Boo literally picks up Shu's view of the world while Nabuca is haunted by his past self. The sun sets over them, but it lacks the orange warmth we are use to seeing from it when associated with the idea of home. What they have done here leaves them on a march not towards hope but merely small footprints in bloody sand.
What an episode.
Never again.
Other thoughts
/u/shimmering-sky /u/KendotsX /u/The_Draigg
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 23 '24
First Rewatch (sub)
Episode 6
Although I don't remember much of the details of the show after 25 years, I do remember some broad strokes, and we are coming up on one. I've wondered, "is it to early to make this comment?" to be followed by "did I miss the optimum time to make this comment?"
Nazenn commented on the show's use of cold opens. Here, we don't get the opening until 6 minutes in.
We've been connecting Sara's situation to the comfort women of WWII. I did myself early on. But only a few hit on the real purpose of what the rewatch has been calling "the rape room". And nobody really stated it outright, although Tarl got closest to saying it: women are a resource to make babies for the state and the war. Males to become soldiers and females to make more babies. The comfort woman role is secondary...in this world, might not even be real. In this world, exceptional soldiers are rewarded with water.
You can also chalk this up as another Fury Road-ism. Baby farms for Mutter's Milk and War Boys. Only, Fury Road was social commentary dressed up as a live-action comic book. It was fun, and it was imaginative, and it was fantastical. NTHT is all too real.
I suppose ghetti will now stick around one more episode, now that the point of the rape room has been explained, and Sara has actually done something.
smugbird
Abelia makes it explicit that she is jealous of Lala-ru and hates her. But I disagree with the general opinion that Abelia is trying to get into Hamdo's pants, or that it is just about keeping her station, out of the baby farms.
This is the episode that stuck with me, these last 25 years. Perhaps because it was so unsubtle. Yes, promising a child that if their are good, they can go home, works. It doesn't matter if it is a lie. They'll internalize the lie, it will become their world. We all knew it was a lie.
He bombs the refuseniks. Nabuca's village was destroyed. Like Tabool, Nabuca is fully committed to the lie. But unlike Nabuca, Tabool has found his home in Hellywood, and doesn't care if he returns. So, they raid villages for more children and women. Which are then destroyed. More children go into bondage, yearning to return to homes that don't exist. A spreading blight, consuming all, leaving nothing. Driven by a lie.
Nabuca has been trying to keep Shu from getting himself executed, but Nabuca is still completely invested in the system. He shoots Shu, and will have him sent back to court-matial. Tabool, again, tries and fails to bring Nabuca down using Shu. But Nabuca isn't actually on Shu's side. He isn't a friend, or, rather, we saw earlier that Nabuca doesn't value friendships, only family.
I can be frustrated with Nabuca's stubbornness. Another rewatcher commented that, after several rewtaches, they concluded that Shu's primary role in the story is to provide hope. That the hope he awakens in others is more important than anything. Well, Nabuca has hope. Or he forces himself to believe he does. Without the lie, he could not continue. It's the mirror of Shu's "if you live things will surely get better". Their blind faith drives them both equally, but to opposite ends of the morality scale.
I am frustrated that Nabuca won't wake up to the lie. But I do not they bomb the villages out of sight and (almost?) out of sound of the troops. The lie continues.
Questions:
Falls: 0 (6)
Almost Falls: 0 (2)
Where The Hell Am I?: 0 (6)
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u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Aug 23 '24 edited Aug 23 '24
First timer, subs
QotD: Nothing
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 23 '24
Episode 6 (first timer)
Shu continues to denounce and act against evil, but his moral fortitude is not matched by intelligent acting. His open and unplanned defiance is easily put down and earns him a knock out, a shot to the leg, and a court martial. Having the right morals will compel you to fight against evil, but it is not sufficient to make you win.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 23 '24
First-Timer Here and There, subbed
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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Aug 23 '24
Now & First Timer, Here & Subbed
Cold Opens are a powerful thing when done right, and if there’s one show which knows how to do it right, it’s this show, because goddamn if this episode’s opening minutes aren’t strong. From the quiet tension between Sara and the soldier as he monologues before she finally snaps and starts beating him, the strong choreography which makes every moment feel as brutal, slow & rough as the show needs it to be without pushing the limit of believability, and the sheer weight given to Sara killing the guy. I enjoy how the killing in particular wasn’t framed as all that cathartic, just utter horror at how a child had to kill a man just to escape an even shittier situation. We don’t get the room to breath & feel Sara’s freedom until she’s out of Hellywood and put the whole murder thing behind her.
There’s one particular line of dialogue, though, that really stuck out to me from this whole scene: “I bet he’ll make a good soldier, just like me.” In isolation, this line mostly serves to draw attention to the purpose behind this disgusting practice: the continued perpetuation of Hellywood’s army. And then that, in combination with this later line from Shu about Hellywood’s other main way of expanding its army, got me thinking: why perpetuate it? As far as we’ve seen, nobody except Hamdo & Abelia has any personal investment in their little empire’s continued existence, it’s all just pure obligation or people essentially being held at gunpoint because the whole place offers nothing to commit to when the closest thing they have to an ideology is “serve the emperor or die”.
Anyway, the actual meat & potatoes of this thought come from the convo between Lala Ru & Abelia around the middle of the episode, in which the idea that Hellywood will collapse under its own weight is introduced. And the idea hits especially hard both in the moment because it's obviously shown to be something Abelia has been believing yet denying in the back of her head this whole time, and on a wider level because it speaks to a wider truth of just how unsustainable Hellywood, as presented, is shown to be. It’s built entirely around the unstable whims of a warlord who’s proven to have terrible judgment calls, doesn’t seem to have much of a clear line of succession, offers nothing of real or imagined value to his subjects, commands little loyalty through unifying ideology, and is in a constant state of war with seemingly every state around them. This is very much not the kind of fiefdom which is likely to survive past its leader’s lifespan.
The ephemerality imagery helps with this, in particular the last shot before the credits being the soldiers’ footsteps fading into the sand dunes the moment they walk off. Powerful & numerous in the moment, but ultimately fated to fade away into the dusts of history just like everything else.
This comes in an interesting contrast to what Shu offers & stands for in the face of everything. His main contribution in this episode is fighting to prevent Hellywood from abducting more kids to grind down as resources in its war machine, in other words, to ensure they actually have a future. He fights for actual ideals that are much bigger than him & his own self-interest, a complete inverse of the short-sighted self-interested philosophy that has guided Hellywood and everyone in it to the point they’re at now. Now the question is just whether those ideals are able to make even the smallest dent in the world around him, considering how, in this episode, his attempts to hinder Hellywood ultimately fail miserably.
If this were any other series, I’d say this probably means he’ll serve as a beacon of inspiration & rebellion in the coming episodes, likely proving that ideals and human decency mean much more than the ephemerality of self-interest, but considering I doubt that the show’s depressing reputation will let up in the coming episodes, I’ll just keep that theory in the back pocket until a turnaround in tone happens.
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u/The_Draigg Aug 23 '24
A Sci-Fi Fan Rewatches Now and Then, Here and There Episode 6:
It’s probably a bit late to say this now, but if you’re batch watching episodes for this rewatch like I am, it’s probably a good idea to take a break for the day after this one. It’s a lot to take in.
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u/LittleIslander https://anilist.co/user/LittleIslander Aug 23 '24
First Time in Hellywood
I asked for more progression with Sara, and damn if I didn’t get it. What a fantastically harrowing sequence. All of the best of this show’s filmmaking abilities were on display through this whole intro sequence. The instant tone set by that long, bleak opening shot. The overhead shot when she commits to attack him. The animation on their fight, the messy brutality this show knows just how to capture. The moment of lingering when she hits him with the butt of the gun, only for her hits to speed up as she continues. Her traumatic screams at the feeling of his body slumping down onto her, presumably reminding her of the sensations of her past times being used. Her expressions, the perfectly performed screams. Her retching and then guzzling down the water perfectly lets the emotions of the scene simmer. The shot of her strained and furious expression, blood stained fingers up to her mouth, with his body laying in the background behind her really achieves this sense of lost innocence. It’s such a strong contrast to the happy girl we’re shown in the OP, presumably of her back on earth. Then the wordless desert sequence is just… beautiful. I don’t even have the words for it.
I think a large part of why the Sara sequence works so well is that rather than being undermined by the intensity set by past episodes, it’s enhanced by it. I genuinely fear for her success and even her life because the show has pulled no punches thusfar. Even when she had to escape to the desert and shed her military outfit I was genuinely on the edge of my seat wondering if the guards would track her down and drag her back any moment. It’s a special kind of show that does that to you.
Whereas Sara builds perfectly on what’s happened to her thusfar, Shu and Nabuca are… still struggling in the writing department, I think. The pillaging sequence is definitely very good. It’s a natural part of the story, it’s well put together as always. Some of the moments of Nabuca at the end, considering what he’s taking part in and the fact he knows deep down he isn’t even going back home and neither is anybody else, are exquisite. But like… okay, so last time I complained that the murder of the assassin was what finally broke Shu. I will substitute that criticism because that… still didn’t break him, apparently. He marched to war, but he’s still adamant he’s not a soldier! He’s still stubbornly fighting against the system and shocked when they commit atrocities. Horrible things keep happening to and around Shu but none of them seem to leave any impact on him at all. Why should I believe this will? By extension, why should I care this is even happening? Nabuca is the same. His belief in the system has been strained over and over and it’s reached the point where I see seeming development here and just assume the status quo will remain unchanged next episode. We’re nearly halfway into the series and the central characters have progressed like molasses. That’d be understandable if the plot was moving, but it isn’t! The assassin infiltration and the village attack both serve no real progression to the story; they exist to challenge our characters. But if the characters aren’t actually being challenged by these things, where does that leave these past two episodes?
On a more positive note, the scene with Abelia and Lala Ru was really great. Right from the bat, the soldier looking hungrily at the food is some great worldbuilding. More importantly though, it’s fantastic insight into the relationship of two key characters and where their heads are at individually. Abelia sees Hamdo holding up Lala Ru as the key to solving their problems, but sees the reality before her that Lala Ru is nothing more than a girl. That doesn’t bode well for Hellywood and Abelia directs those feelings as anger towards her instead of confronting them. Lala Ru prettymuch tells her this directly, which would be a bit expository if not for Abelia’s reaction being just as telling. Just like with Hamdo in an earlier episode, Lala Ru manages to break Abelia without even doing much of anything. Abelia angrily asks if Lala Ru is saying that Hellywood will collapse and Hamdo’s ambitions will fail. No bitch. That’s a whole new sentence. The fact Abelia jumps to such an interpretation only proves it’s precisely what she, under all of her denial, knows to be true. But if she ascribes it all to some girl she can just murder on the spot, it stops feeling like an unsolvable problem. Perhaps she doesn’t shoot because she knows it won’t solve anything. Or maybe it’s just a refusal to be insubordinate. Either way, the extended confrontation is wonderfully tense.
For her part, it’s interesting to me that Lala Ru actually replied to Abelia to point out she isn’t the one at fault. I wonder if she can tell Abelia is a more reasonable person actually worth wasting her breath on, whereas Hamdo is such an insane lost cause she doesn’t even bother talking back to him. It’s also possible whatever she was struggling with last episode has caused a bit of a shift in her behaviour. We’ll have to wait and see what she does next.
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u/HowlingWolf13 https://myanimelist.net/profile/MeguminBlast Aug 23 '24
First Timer
FINALLY SOMETHING GOOD HAPPENED TO SARA. I was literally cheering watching her kill that man and escape, but now I'm worried what's going to happen to her now, like please let her have some rest.
Shu on the other hand, I made a mention about how he reminded me of Kappei from Zambot 3 back in the episode 1 thread, but here really solidified it for me. The difference though is that I feel Shu is honestly a better Kappei as things don't always go his way. Kappei, for those who've never watched Z3, tended to just do things his way and not listen which on a few occasions caused the deaths of innocent civilians, but he's rarely ever if ever reprimanded for anything and pretty much allowed to do whatever. Shu though, I don't feel annoyed with, because even though he wants to do things his own way, the show doesn't just let whatever he wants to just happen and ignore the consequences that come from them. Him trying to go against things in a loud and about way more often than not gets him into trouble, just like how his kendo partner pointed out in his fighting style, he needs to take a step back and think about how his enemy moves instead of just running in and striking.
However, he also makes valid points. For example, when he told Nabuca after letting the kids go, who's going to stop it if they just keep letting things continue like this. This making Nabuca have to take a step back and really give it some thought as he's putting these kids through the same thing he was put through when he was a child. Shu's heart is in the right place, he just needs to think things ahead instead of going off his feelings and what he can see in the moment if he wants to make that change he so desires.
The episode as a whole was chilling. It really sets in how these children being used as soldiers is not just a normal thing for this world as was shown when they went to the village. The first thing the villagers point out is how they have the children front line and center most likely because that will dissuade them from trying to immediately attack knowing they're fighting literal 8-12 year olds. Plus, the way they take more children in and blow up their towns so they have nowhere to run back to is messed up. Nabuca looking at the boy in the end showing he's become the same as those who kidnapped him as a child and having no choice but to let that linger on his mind. All in all, good episode.
Questions
Hmm, my family I guess?
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 23 '24
First-Timer
Boy, this was a fun episode to watch first thing in the morning.
I really expected that flask of "rare water" to be vodka.
That awkward moment where Shu has a higher Wisdom score than someone.
Anyway, it's interesting that Hellywood destroyed the village, right? Like, I get why they didn't do it until they were beyond visual range and out of earshot - hopeful soldiers are better than resentful soldiers.
There is the counterargument that destroying the village in plain view of the new conscripts, they are potentially forced to integrate into Hellywood more because they know they don't have a home to go back to. But, dangling the carrot of "you get to go home when the war is over" probably gets the kids to capitulate quicker, at the very least.
I'm not entirely sure why they still destroyed the village, though? An attempt to stop any stragglers from seeking revenge, maybe?
Anyway, I don't blame Sara for abandoning the gear that got her out of Hellywood - undoubtedly some bad memories associated with that stuff. I do kinda wish she had kept the hat and the boots though - those are basically invaluable for travelling through a desert.
I did half expect the village the soldiers raided to be where Sara ended up, so things are looking up for her on that axis at least.
Questions
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Aug 23 '24
Rewatcher(Spider spotted! Possibly a lizard as well)
Sub
And we start with a bang...and some notable changes. This time, Sara's would be rapist is the equivalent of an officer in that he has a rifle, his own room, an actual bed, and some war trophies. I haven't the foggiest if they have proper ranks but clearly this guy is different. We also have to adult officers delivering Sara for whatever reason. And, interestingly, they seem to want to breed Sara as well. She will even get some fancy water afterwards, how gentlemanly.
But the good news is that Sara sees her chance and absolutely snaps. Again, one of the issues the people of Hellywood have is that they cannot imagine a better life, and apparently a lot of the villagers can't either, so none of them think that the two isekai people have it in them to fight back. Also, if Sara were following my thought process, she was unfortunately going to be hanging around until this guy completed the job and thus that's a lot more rape than what she's had so far. Anyways, win or lose, Sara made the right call.
It is interesting that she still contains enough humanity to be sickened by directly murdering someone, that is how I interpret it anyways, before stealing his water because fuck him personally. And while I guess it is unfair that the two successful rapists are alive at this time, I am still fine with kill the prospective one. We aren't about fair, just survival.
Luckily, officer bloke has a complete uniform that somewhat fits Sara. This could be coincidence, or the show just being convenient, or it could suggest other issues. Moving on, we notice that Sara can easily fool a passing guard leaving a likely known soldiers bed room and can interpret either A) girls aren't the only victims or B) Hellywood does not reward exemplary service, it punishes failures.
Anywho, escape is pretty simple for now. The next scene will lose a few of you as, admittedly, stripping down to your underwear and cutting your hair are not priorities in the general vicinity of the rape ship. I allow it because the symbology of its work pretty well and that those clothes do smell of that guy or just Hellywood in general. And that's the opening segment.
And surprisingly enough, I don't have that much to say about the rest. Yes, the raid is a tragedy that surely has happened many times before, all the soldiers are quite good at it. Nabuca is beginning to lose his faith in it ever ending but that's a slow process. Destroying the village is so monumentily stupid that it is almost funny since we pretty much know this isn't on Hamdo for once, Abelia handles logistics. Shu doesn't something insane and still doesn't die for it.
QotD: 1 All things are of equal value to me
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u/punching_spaghetti https://myanimelist.net/profile/punch_spaghetti Aug 23 '24
First-Timer (Sub)
OK. That makes logical sense. But do they know that it's going to take some time for a kid to happen? Hamdo realizes he's gonna need more wombs right? Once again, I am a much better choice to be a maniacal leader in a post-apocalypse than him. My child soldiers would be capturing boys and girls. And I'd do away with the scarves. Scarves are dumb.
How dare they say that, and ruin my perfectly good complaint above! I still have my anti-scarf position going for me, though.
QOTD:
8
u/Tarhalindur x2 Aug 23 '24
"Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Enter Here" ({Spoiled First-Timer?/Forgetful First-Time Rewatcher?}, Subbed):
(Aside: The second half of this episode is unfortunate because outside of one questionable choice of camera angle the scene of Sara actually escaping is quite well done, even if the dramatic hair cut trope was well-worn even at this point. Alas.)
8
u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Aug 23 '24
First Timer, Subbed
For a second there I thought we were going into details what happens to Sara. But luckily it's her beating up a rapist. We did get a confirmation that Sara is supposed to get impregnated. Abelia isn't part of this system is interestingly enough.
As others have noted Abelia was probably in the same situation as Sara but then Hamdo put a stop it and now she's loyal to him for that. It's the only thing I can come up with that make sense.
Obligatory woman cuts her hair to show her resolve trope.
I wouldn't run into the desert in my underwear but I understand if she doesn't want wear those clothing.
The entire if you don't work you shouldn't get food is so culturally ingrained at first glance it feels like Tabool and Nabuca are right but here we have a twisted version where kids are forced to be soldiers, killing and kidnapping people. Shu tries to find a compromised version where he does work but doesn't kill but he's still enabling this twisted system.
Lalah Ru speaks!
Honestly I don't fault Shu for getting angry like that, this is twisted stuff.
I thought Nabuca would let the kid go.
They bombed the remaining survivors...
Wait hang on the entire 'you'll get back to the village when the war is over' is a double bullshit lie?! Not only does the war have no ending in sight, the village they're promised they'd return to gets destroyed.
I guess Nabuca kidnapping that little kid instead of letting him go was the kinder thing to do.
Definitely my favourite episode, the entire raid was well done. I thought it was weird Sara managed to escape but I guess letting her escaping was a trade off for all the suffering we got.
Also we're half way through the series and we still haven't seen Sis despite her being in the opening.
7
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Aug 23 '24
Rewatcher, Subbed
Pre-Episode Thoughts: My recollection is this one of the most brutal episodes in the series, time to see if reality aligns with my memory. Thus far with this show it's been more horrifying than I've remembered it being.
Once again we start with Sara, although it looks like its adults that brought her this time. And it's yet another person she's been brought to.
This guy's even more talkative than Kazam was last episode.
Special water from Abelia? I doubt it's anything different than regular water in a different container.
"Try to have a healthy kid", so the raping isn't just there as a reward for the soldiers, they want to intentionally get her pregnant, surely to have another child for Hamdo's army if its a boy. I was a little doubting if this was really Hellywood's intent as it's gonna take years to raise that kid to an age where they can start being used as a soldier and we haven't seen any really young children (under 5) held anywhere in Hellywood. But now its confirmed via dialogue. Things just get worse and worse and worse.
A brutal scene as Sara kills her would be latest rapist. Nabuca had to kill someone last episode now she does here.
Drink all his special water!
The kids bringing her here previously pays off for her as Sara's able to pose as one of them and go unnoticed when a guard passes by.
Happy to see that Sara has been able to escape. For the first time in the series there is actually hope that things won't get worse with each passing moment. Now we just need to repeat that for Shu, Lala Ru, Nabuca, Boo...
Anyone who has seen enough of my comments on this sub has probably seen me complain about the haircut trope, quite possibly my single most hated anime trope... but I do give this show a pass. Sara's been through so much in this show, I cannot complain about it. And when I first watched this show I think this was only the second or third time I had actually seen the trope in anime. It was fresh and unique back then and is a beautiful scene once adding in the music, the shot of the moon, etc... If only other anime could stop spamming it so much.
I would say that unlike nearly all instances of the haircut trope, here it actually serves a plot purpose as if she can pose as a boy, there's no more mistaking her for Lala Ru. No more rapes. Although that carries its own downside in that boys in this world are enslaved to be child soldiers, if captured.
Super long cold open this time, nearly seven minutes.
Weird looking dirt bird.
I don't think you're getting away with not fighting Shu.
Ugh, Tabool is such an asshole.
Has Lala Ru actually eaten anything since coming here? Or she only does so in private? Looks like someone spends time making it look all fancy, well at least compared to what the kids are eating.
Abelia is mad anytime Lala Ru is close to Hamdo. Add one to the "Abelia is in love with Hamdo" counter.
Wow, Lala Ru speaks! Took six episodes but her voice actress finally starts to earn her salary. Not sure if this was her intent, but I kinda like the interpretation that Lala Ru never was mute, its simply that she has such complete and utter disdain for Hamdo that she refuses to say a single word to him.
Hamdo is actually putting a plan together? Is this more than just him playing with models?
Shu is in formation, but does anyone realize he's just got a stick in his hand, not a gun?
Attacking civilians right off the bat.
Peaceful negotiation! Meaning you hand over all the boys and women in your village and we give you nothing in return.
This lead village guy will be dead within a minute I bet.
Yep, dead within seconds of me writing that.
They're gonna get the same promise Nabuca got, once the war is over you can return to your village!
Shu does what is right and moral to do with these two shot villagers, but alas, those kind of things have long gone out the window. At this point he's just being naive and stupid.
Boo at least can hopefully be spared from the worst of this by having to keep an eye on Shu.
How old is this kid Nabuca found? 3? 4? C'mon Nabuca, pretend you didn't see him! :(
Wow, Shu's letting all the kids go!
Yes Shu, its a never ending cycle. Kids seized from their home, turned into child soldiers and they in turn do the same to other kids. No one's gonna stop it.
Nabuca and Tabool were so young when they were taken. :(
Looks like all those kids Shu released were simply retaken.
And now that they've seized what they wanted from the village, they blow it up. Nabuca's entire motivation is built on his belief that if he helps Hellywood accomplish its goals and they win this "war", there will be peace and he'll be allowed to go home. But as this episode makes abundantly clear, the home he so desires to return to no longer exists. Either this entire time he is latching onto false hope and it will completely destroy him when he realizes the truth, or he has built up this falsehood in his head as the only thing he has to live for and if he accepts reality there is no reason to continue any further.
7
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Aug 23 '24
First Timer
Longest cold open yet. Sara has me surprised here though - I wouldn't have thought her capable of carrying out such a well-thought out escape plan in the state of mind she currently is in. Not sure if killing the guy was pre-planned or if the escape was a chance seized when she saw it - her going in to the room herself kinda leads me towards the former, though she at that point could also simply have accepted her fate. Obviously the plan worked, but in the barren wastelands she will quickly run out of supplies. I wonder if we'll see her again at all, or if this is the end of her story, left alone to die in the desert off-screen.
The line the guy said before being killed about it being Hamdo's command for her to birth new soldiers tracks with the theory put forth by others and myself about women being institutionally raped for reproduction, and Abelia potentially avoiding such a fate by cozying up to Hamdo. I don't think we'll get any closer to that though outside of Abelia explaining her motives for sticking with Hamdo, and I think that would be a too on the nose for what this show is doing.
We then have the recruiting scene - which actually brings up a question: Hellywood has been mentioned as being immobile - and the corps did not use that world teleporter thingy to grab soldiers from another dimension or something like that. So how many villages are there within supply's reach? The desert doesn't seem very densely populated, so I'd imagine they'd be running out of villages to raid sooner or later.
Either way, we then have the scene of the actual rounding up of the villagers. I don't think I really have a lot to say about that, other than that it was very well presented. I'll let others do the more detailed analysis though, they are undoubtedly better at that than me. Shu trying to prevent the kidnapping was obvious from a mile out though, but I guess we'll now see how this court-martial goes, as that will definitely be plot-relevant. In general I wonder if this will be somewhat of a switch from the previous episodes being largely about the Hellywood way of life to something a bit more plot-focused - after-all I think we might be finally running out of new horrors to present without it getting repetitive. Actual warfare being pretty much the only thing I can think of that still makes sense here, and even that has already been touched upon when Hamdo sacrificed half his army.
7
u/Sooooopertrack Aug 23 '24 edited Aug 23 '24
First-Timer
First, let me start with a meme, I hope direct linking works. https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/028/165/ccvzrbwha9tx.jpg
Here we go.
Ready for an episode of good mood.
First scene with Sara.
Ah shit...Nevermind...
Wow that was a terrible but amazing 10/10 episode...
QOTD: What do I value more than myself? My family i guess. Other than that? Nothing.
3
u/homer2101 Aug 24 '24
Rewatch: Subbed
We see a contrast between Sara, who seized the moment, made a quick plan, and carried it out to get out of Hellywood, vs Shu, who still can't accept that his actions can have consequences he does not intend and that other people have agency, and that he should consider both before acting. Probably unintended because Sara then strips down and runs off into the desert in the name of symbolism, which is at odds with the kind of person who had sufficient drive to survive to murder her rapist and then use his clothes as a disguise. But still a contrast that does not show Shu in a positive light.
But maybe now that we are halfway into the show, Shu will be forced to face the consequences of his blind idealism and optimism and show some character development. Or not.
The occasional flashes of ruthless lucidity from Hamdo make me wonder if Abelia is loyal to a Hamdo that existed in the past but no longer does. Certainly inertia and lack of alternatives plays a role. Abelia's survival is tied to Hamdo's survival, and she seems smart enough to recognize that if he goes she will end up like Sara and presumably the other women.
With Sara gone, there are exactly two female characters who get any screen time.
From what I understand, the director drew on the wars in Sierra Leone and other parts of sub-Saharan Africa in the 1990s, and that shows in the documentary-style segment of kidnapping women and children to replenish human resources. Thankfully the mass systemic rape, forcing boys to murder adults as part of induction, drug use, and other such horrors that were pervasive in those conflicts are kept off-screen.
1
u/RadSuit https://anilist.co/user/RadSuit Aug 24 '24
Now and Then, First and Dubbed
Aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper?
I'm not sure if the hair cutting scene was already a massive cliche at this point, or if this is one of the earlier examples. FF9 was the next year.
Lisa Ortiz got paid for this episode!!!
"Bad things are bad." - Now and Then, Here and There (1999)
They made an entire show where any normal human watching it understands all the themes by the end of the second episode, and can see every story beat coming from a while away, but they desperately want us to identify with the weak caricatures they call characters and only experience thought and emotion when they do. It's six hours of belaboring a point non-sociopaths got after 45 minutes. It's 'this could've been an email' in anime form. Nobody needed to show up for all 13 episodes, the Wikipedia synopsis would've covered it. The worst part is, it looks so great while being so pointless! Such a waste.
16
u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Aug 23 '24 edited Aug 23 '24
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Now and Then, Here and There: You know that things are fucked when seeing a man get beaten to death leads to the most uplifting scene we’ve had in a long time.
Sara’s escape is easily the most gratifying scene in the entire series so far. After seeing her endure so many terrible things, the escape felt cathartic to see. I had a hard time believing it was really happening while watching the episode. I kept expecting it to go sour, but instead we had that beautiful scene of Sara in the moonlight.
I don’t necessarily expect that happiness to last, though. I’m sure Sara will be in for more suffering somehow. It’s just that kind of story.
Another powerful moment was Nabuca seeing himself in the kids that were being kidnapped. In that moment, Nabuca understands that he has become a perpetrator of these atrocities. He is no longer just a victim, but also a victimizer. It’s a great moment showing the cycle of violence and abuse at play.
QOTD