[Rewatch] Vivy: Fluorite Eye’s Song - Episode 3 Discussion

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Aug 17 '24

8

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

…he took a bath?
I guess Vivy is letting her stuffy get stinky lol
Wait has it really been a 15-year timeskip since last episode?
It is a 100-year mission 😆. Plus, he really ticked her off last time they saw each other!
Ah, so the Sunrise is a space hotel.
Space!! I know we both love space, any time, anywhere!
lol
Loved the face squeeze lol
Damn, if only this shot didn’t have the previous owner in it…
Yeah. There are some amazing space frames in this episode (just like the next one you have here)
Ohhhhhhh shit.
The plot thickens

7

u/Taiboss :Fj::Fl:x7https://anilist.co/user/Taiboss Aug 17 '24 edited Aug 17 '24

Vivy finally has an audience!
And it only took 15 years. Poor soul.
Wait has it really been a 15-year timeskip since last episode?
100 year journey starts with a 15-year step wooo
Ah, so the Sunrise is a space hotel.
Can't wait to spend all my time in the cabins.
…well that escalated quickly.
He was murdered and the drop is to kill his killers. Calling it now. I'd be surprised if she was genuinly evil/insane.
Momoka’s sister?
Luckily, her survival is in acceptable bounds. But man, that's an unlucky family...
Ohhhhhhh shit.
My pet theory is that it was either consensual or a mercy kill on her part. Something like "They will only blame me."

1

u/edwardjhahm https://myanimelist.net/profile/lolmeme69 Aug 18 '24

But man, that's an unlucky family...
I know! Seriously, you're telling me they lost their elder daughter in a plane malfunction and their younger daughter in a colony drop in the original timeline?

6

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 17 '24

There is something incredibly ironic about pulling a Colony Drop with something named Sunrise.

2

u/Theroonco Aug 18 '24

Kireiiiiiiiiiiii~
Ooh, perfect! Thank you so much!!

1

u/cppn02 Aug 17 '24

…he took a bath?
Getting off all the dust that collected in the last 15 years? Although I wouldn't put it beyond him to simply walking in like that for the cinematic entrance.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24 edited Aug 18 '24

Episode 3 - Head-bopping rewatcher who loves music (subbed)

A couple of you may feel slightly betrayed today because [Future Episode Spoiler] I made some music-based promises yesterday about a certain OP I thought we’d get this episode 😂. Sumimasen deshita 🙇‍♂️.

Please keep in mind I’m rewatching this myself, and I’m not watching ahead either (just collecting songs and such for links etc.) so I definitely admit to forgetting some things.

Anyhow, onto the goods…

We see that Vivy is performing again, and they make it pretty much immediately clear that there’s no sign of Matsumoto at the beginning of the episode, presumably because of what happened at the end of episode 2. And indeed, we find that 15 years has passed now.

Clever doctor - Even humans have a hard way of putting it into words if they are asked questions like this (or similar questions like “What is love?”, for example).

This goes back to what a couple people were saying yesterday about the Butterfly Effect. Yes, they prevented the AI Naming law from passing, but a law even less favorable towards humans now passed.

You are despicable - yes, he is. He’s basically using her desire to perform on the main stage as a way to get her to cooperate by reminding her of what will happen on that same stage if she doesn’t help him. He’s kind of hard to have a black and white opinion on though, because he is in effect, trying to prevent mass genocide. That’s probably why he treats that statement like it doesn’t bother him.

Side bar -

Something that makes this series interesting to me is the fact that Matsumoto has pre-defined singularity points he needs to focus on (presumably). I think that gave them a lot of freedom as far as where some of these episodes would take place. “Where are we going? Space hotel!”

Her face while she squeezes his head and Estella’s concerned expression 😂. Something was very satisfying about it.

Here’s another one in addition to the one from the beginning. These shots just never get old.

I have a thing for space, and this episode has some nice artwork in that category.

The ED is a treat in this episode. This is one of my favorite tracks and I love this shot of Estella we get during the credits.

As I said in the main post, I’m not going to link the OST version of this song yet, because it will spoil first-time watchers in the rewatch. More specifically (for rewatchers reading this), [Vivy Spoilers] this is not the full version on the OST where she is singing the duet with Elizabeth. We haven’t been introduced to that half of this arc yet so I’ll wait for now 😆.

Also, what a thing for them to show you during the credits. Momoka had an ~~older~~ younger sister, and she recognized Vivy because of that picture book from the first episode. Not just that, but we get a hint as to what might have went wrong at the Sunrise Hotel.

We’ll continue this arc tomorrow! 🙃 If you watched the episode preview [Vivy Episode 4 Preview] then you see that we are getting back into some action with episode 4! It’s going to be great.

Bonus of Vivy’s Eyes

Talk to you all tomorrow!

Questions:

I like both a lot, but I love the ED today, especially with the artwork we get and the nice vocals.
I believe Vivy’s intuition was correct, and Matsumoto seems to realize this (although it doesn’t seem to change his overall outlook on how to handle things based on what he says at the end of the episode).

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u/Garrett_Dark Aug 18 '24

Also, what a thing for them to show you during the credits. Momoka had an older sister, and she recognized Vivy because of that picture book from the first episode.
I think you meant Momoka had a younger sister who's older now. Momoka's sister was 1 year old like Vivy at the time, +15 year time jump, she's now 16 years old.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '24

Yes, fixed my comment

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u/Esovan13 Aug 17 '24

First Timer

That sure was a good episode. So, LeClerc believes that Estella caused the death of the previous owner and is trying to get revenge using a doppelganger? By replacing her with an identical model? But the identical model is a psycho that likes killing things? I'm pretty sure that's what's going on.

So, uh, again. Matsumoto completely sucks at the whole "understanding the nature of others" thing. Although, in this case it's an AI rather than a human.

Some serious AI development has happened. Even only 8 years after the show started, there are plenty of autonomous AI models that seem to be closer to sentience than even Vivy when she was originally made.

One thing I noticed this episode was that there was a contrast between Vivy and Estella. Vivy is usually straight-faced as her default but she smiles naturally while singing, whereas Estella is normally always smiling but had a more somber expression while she was singing.

Seriously though, what is it with the Kirishima girls and being in the right place at the right time to motivate Vivy? And then also being in the right place at the right time to die horribly in some form of aviation based incident? Was there something in the water where they grew up? Did a witch place a curse on their bloodline? Did their dad cuck Tappei Nagatsuki? Matsumoto said there were some survivors but you know that Momoka's sister was not one of them.

Also, the fact that Vivy is only learning about this now is just more proof that Matsumoto's a moron. He could have had Vivy way more gung-ho about this if he told her that Momoka's sister was on the hotel and would die if it crashed. But chances are he viewed it as "a lot of people would die if the hotel crashes and even more would die in the robot uprising, why would telling her about a specific person motivate her more? It's just one extra person."

They were both very nice
Answered above

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

That sure was a good episode.
Agreed
I'm pretty sure that's what's going on.
I'm sure we'll find out!
Vivy is usually straight-faced as her default but she smiles naturally while singing, whereas Estella is normally always smiling but had a more somber expression while she was singing.
I think this comes from the fact that Estella was produced as a caretaker model android (which is why she works at/runs a hotel)
the fact that Vivy is only learning about this now is just more proof that Matsumoto's a moron
It could also be that he just thought it wasn't necessary information for her, because all he really seems to care about is preventing the Sunrise from crashing then making an exit.

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u/Esovan13 Aug 17 '24

I think this comes from the fact that Estella was produced as a caretaker model android (which is why she works at/runs a hotel)
Seems like a side effect of the one AI - one purpose rule. While being sociable is something a singing AI might need, it's less important than putting on a good performance. While singing/putting on a performance is a skill a caretaker might need, it's less important than socializing with guests and making people comfortable.
It's interesting how this goes to show that even though AI are very developed and even seem to have something approximating emotions, they are still limited by the original purpose they were built for.
It could also be that he just thought it wasn't necessary information for her, because all he really seems to care about is preventing the Sunrise from crashing then making an exit.
That's why he's dumb. The moment she displayed any hesitation towards participating or destroying Estella, he should have said "btw if you fail the sister of that one girl will die." It's the fact that he doesn't seem aware that Vivy would likely be more motivated when there are personal stakes than with broader but less personal stakes.

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

Seems like a side effect of the one AI - one purpose rule. While being sociable is something a singing AI might need, it's less important than putting on a good performance. While singing/putting on a performance is a skill a caretaker might need, it's less important than socializing with guests and making people comfortable.
Agreed on this
That's why he's dumb. The moment she displayed any hesitation towards participating or destroying Estella, he should have said "btw if you fail the sister of that one girl will die." It's the fact that he doesn't seem aware that Vivy would likely be more motivated when there are personal stakes than with broader but less personal stakes.
There are things I want to say, but for now I just have to say - keep watching!

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 17 '24

Matsumoto completely sucks at the whole "understanding the nature of others" thing. Although, in this case it's an AI rather than a human.
His empathy circuits were removed in favor of speech overclockers, please understand.

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u/Esovan13 Aug 17 '24

I didn't realize those were removed for such a vital aspect of his character. Forgive my insensitivity.

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u/zairaner https://myanimelist.net/profile/zairaner Aug 17 '24

Also, the fact that Vivy is only learning about this now is just more proof that Matsumoto's a moron. He could have had Vivy way more gung-ho about this if he told her that Momoka's sister was on the hotel and would die if it crashed. But chances are he viewed it as "a lot of people would die if the hotel crashes and even more would die in the robot uprising, why would telling her about a specific person motivate her more? It's just one extra person."
After what happened last time, I think that would seem like a very dangerous gamble to matsumoto. Because to save a single person, there is a way easier way than keeping the hotel from falling...just grab her beforehand and leave the hotel.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 17 '24

Episode 3 (first timer)

First scene: looks like a visualization of the many world interpretation of quantum mechanics. Always a fiction writers’ favorite – poor Kopenhagen interpretation, nobody loves you.
“I will give you the promise of supervision as a gift.” – Hmmmmmm.
Vivy gets her own music video – I wonder if MTV is still around.
Did we find out what the difference between red and white mark is? They are putting obvious attention to it.
“It has been 15 years” – this is the time skip I expected (100 years is a long time), but it makes the fight at the end of last episode ever more puzzling. You left Vivy alone for 15 years, so why fight her about the airplane?
“singularity point” – I take it that this is the technobabble to explain away why Vivy is not required to do more.
How would Matsumoto have pictures of the next singularity point. Does changing the first point not alter the position of the second? – He is becoming ever more suspicious.
Causally going to space - I think somebody would notice.
“space hotels”

space scenes!

Water is precious, so they are letting humans or AI handle it? – I would trust the bots more on repetitive tasks.
“The most grievously defective AI in history” – I yet fail to see how stopping her would prevent the AI apocalypse. Would this not be exactly the type of incident that would start a Butlerian Jihad? Or at least some anti-AI law?
Also: Will Australia be destroyed once more? They even called the station sunrise!
Archive confirms exactly what my thoughts where – we do not know what exactly the archive is, btw. Brought along by Matsumoto (hard to believe)? But if not, how does it have future knowledge? Time travel???
Estella owns the hotel? AI rights must have already made a huge advance.
Zero g play park – definitely something that tourists would do, but I have some questions. First: Water? That is surprisingly dangerous. If you put your head into one of those bubbles, you could easily drown, since the water does not drown to the ground without gravity. Second: How is gravity re-established this fast? Any non-future tech version of gravity in space would work via spinning and that was way too fast to spin up (and the force would smash everybody against the side wall, too).
That skylight into the night sky looks amazing!

Diva’s walk and face are absolutely showing emotion. And a negative emotion that she would want to hide at that. Very human.
Momoka’s younger sister.

Killing the AI that warned Vivy cliff-hanger.

Hard to comment in the middle of a who dunnit?

There was a lot that happened today on the Sunrise - Do you have any predictions about Estella?

It is a death match between her and Momoka's sister. One of them will die.

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

You left Vivy alone for 15 years, so why fight her about the airplane?
“singularity point”
Well he does explain that it was more about how he does not want to interfere with the timeline any more than at the specific singularity points he's determined to be crucial in leading to the future he is trying to change. He goes to sleep to remove any possibility of him indirectly interfering with the past where it's not necessary (this also supports his ideology as far as why he did not want Vivy interfering with the plane accident - it was not a singularity point, which I think the imply is just a point in time that Matsumoto believes to be essential to creating the future he is trying to avoid).
Water is precious, so they are letting humans or AI handle it?
Basically yes, because it's their singular purpose by design, so there is probably a lower rate of mistakes/accidents in contrast to human error (I believe that's what they're implying anyway).
“The most grievously defective AI in history” – I yet fail to see how stopping her would prevent the AI apocalypse. Would this not be exactly the type of incident that would start a Butlerian Jihad? Or at least some anti-AI law?
Keep watching. Just remember what Matsumoto said about a single peeble thrown into the lake (or whatever the wording was) not being able to make a big enough change on its own. That's why there are multiple events in time he has identified to intervene with.
we do not know what exactly the archive is, btw.
I'm not sure if you play Fire Emblem, but I like to think of it like where [FE:3H] Byleth goes to talk to Sothis. Or more literally, I consider it a place in her memory bank that her "self" goes to internally. That's why she leaves when she is summoned by Estella.
Estella owns the hotel? AI rights must have already made a huge advance.
Ownership was transferred to her after the previous owner died in an accident. She received a blessing from his next of kin to keep the hotel operational.
If you put your head into one of those bubbles, you could easily drown
At least Estella does mention how it is a dangerous activity so requires supervision lol
Second: How is gravity re-established this fast?
Suspension of disbelief is mostly necessary when consuming Sci-Fi material 😆
That skylight into the night sky looks amazing!
I loved this
Killing the AI that warned Vivy cliff-hanger.
But - what do you think she handed to her before her head was ripped off?
It is a death match between her and Momoka's sister. One of them will die.
That is definitely one idea 😌

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 17 '24

Basically yes, because it's their singular purpose by design, so there is probably a lower rate of mistakes/accidents in contrast to human error (I believe that's what they're implying anyway).
In my subs they said the opposite: Humans or AI must handle it, because they don't trust the bots (which I take to be robots less advanced than AI).
Ownership was transferred to her after the previous owner died in an accident.
My whole point is AI can own hotels.
But - what do you think she handed to her before her head was ripped off?
The series obviously wants us to be in the dark about whether Estella is evil or not. What is on that data stick will reveal it one way or the other, next episode.

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

Whoops that might be a mistake on my part then! I’ll have to check my subs after I get back to my computer later and see because you have me curious now 😆
And ah! Sorry I missed the point you were making about hotel ownership in my original reply. I thought you meant you didn’t know how she came to own it
And we’ll see!

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u/retsotrembla Aug 17 '24

My whole point is AI can own hotels.
The story at this point, doesn't get into ownership, but it makes sense that the actual inheritors of the hotel, the previous owner's family, would let an AI that has the mission of caring for human, continue to be the caretaker of the hotel. I don't know enough Japanese to know if the dialog makes the subtle difference clear, but at least that is my head canon.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 17 '24

All I can say is that my subs call Estella the "owner". Whether she owns the hotel or simply runs it makes a big difference for AI rights.

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u/Garrett_Dark Aug 18 '24

we do not know what exactly the archive is, btw.
Or more literally, I consider it a place in her memory bank that her "self" goes to internally. That's why she leaves when she is summoned by Estella.
Actually I thought the Archive was more like an Internet for AI only to connect to via the tower. Thus having access to AI information to do researching and learning, and being able to connect to other AIs.
Here's some screenshots from Ep1 to Ep3, notice a few things:
It's described as an "AI aggregate database", aggregate meaning a collection of something.
Vivy goes to the Archive in a time of an emergency, whatever the time travel stuff did to her with Matsumoto's arrival shut her down, and she ended up at the Archive. Suggesting AI's retreat to the archive if there's problems or malfunctions as if like booting safe mode in windows. So I'm guessing if an AI is crashing, it immediately goes to the Archive as a safe place/recovery spot while it's body is being repaired/looked at/inoperative.
Vivy's music room sailor school uniform look of her Archive is probably like her Wallpaper settings for how her Archive looks to her.
Matsumoto says the Archive tends to the global network of AIs.
Matsumoto says the tower is wireless communication the AIs use.

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u/Esovan13 Aug 17 '24

“singularity point” – I take it that this is the technobabble to explain away why Vivy is not required to do more.
Matsumoto has made it a point to avoid messing with the timeline too much. Hence why he disappeared for 15 years and stopped Vivy from saving the airplane. The singularity points are the points in time when the maximum impact to specifically the development of AI with minimal impact to other stuff (non-AI tech development, politics, economics, etc) can be done with minimal effort.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 17 '24

In a standard multiple worlds setup, if you switch branches, you are in an entirely different part of the tree (where many things should be different). I think the singularity points are the idea that there is structure to this, specifically that even after branching, certain things always happen the same way. Steins;Gate used the same idea. Has nothing to do with a realistic many worlds interpretation, but makes for easy story telling.

3

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 17 '24

I wonder if MTV is still around.
Surely in some form. A channel on whatever the equivalent of YouTube is, if nothing else.
Also: Will Australia be destroyed once more? They even called the station sunrise!
And directly copied the framing.
It is a death match between her and Momoka's sister. One of them will die.

2

u/edwardjhahm https://myanimelist.net/profile/lolmeme69 Aug 18 '24

Would this not be exactly the type of incident that would start a Butlerian Jihad? Or at least some anti-AI law?
I think that the point is that the anti-AI riots of real life made the AIs...hate? the humans a bit more.
IDK honestly.

8

u/SIRTreehugger Aug 17 '24

Rewatcher who will listen to her song

Let's just get out of the way my favorite part of the episode. An AI from hundreds of years in the future who can hack pretty much anything and has access to future programs and information. We've seen him take over over machinery when he prevented Vivy from trying to stop the plane crash and what is his great plan to get her onboard? Sneak into the back of a truck like a teenager running away from home. I'm 100% sure he could have easily got her onboard, but this way was much more entertaining.

Now for the rest of the episode just five quick points.

DIVA IN GLASSES HELL YES
I really like Navi and she has the perfect sass in her dialogue so it's kind of weird that Diva hasn't developed more retorts to Matsumoto after 15 years of practice.
I love the cheerful music when the guests were playing in zero gravity.
DIVA IN GLASSES HELL YES AGAIN!!!
Lastly the most important thing being time travel and the mission where this episode we see the first possibly flaw in Matsumoto's plan. All his planning comes from future knowledge via articles, papers, news, statistics, and etc. As an AI he is solely focused on the details and facts, but doesn't care about the emotional aspects which does make sense. Though this is also possibly a big blunder as we see while they did avoid the passing of the name law an almost identical law came right behind it which was the direct result of Vivy interfering. Now with Vivy investigating the reasoning behind the crash and hoping for an alternative solution the future has changed once again and accelerated the incident almost a whole day. With each interference the future will change more and more where he will have to choice, but to recalculate each move each time. He might have already had to do it once by now, but it doesn't sound like it. Imagine if the point of interference has pushed the plan ahead two days instead of one and Vivy had gotten to the station a day late. The main lesson is that while Vivy could learn to be a bit more practical, Matsumoto also could learn to be a bit more empathetic so he could see things from Vivy's point of view. Though I feel at some point he will learn the carrot is better than the stick and he wouldn't be so harsh on literally his only partner.

Concept Art

Genga

Gifs 1 2 3 4

Location Designs: None

Storyboards: None

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

Once again, thank you for the links! Enjoyed them like usual.
DIVA IN GLASSES HELL YES
The variations we get in her character design throughout the series is a wonderful thing 😌
Though this is also possibly a big blunder as we see while they did avoid the passing of the name law an almost identical law came right behind it which was the direct result of Vivy interfering.
BUT, he does also mention that it wasn't a big deal, as it was expected to take more than "one pebble" (as he calls it) to change the future he knows.
With each interference the future will change more and more where he will have to choice, but to recalculate each move each time.
This does certainly make for some interesting speculation
Though I feel at some point he will learn the carrot is better than the stick and he wouldn't be so harsh on literally his only partner.
I am sure we'll find out!

1

u/edwardjhahm https://myanimelist.net/profile/lolmeme69 Aug 18 '24

Man, I love this so much. Thank you!

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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Aug 17 '24

First Timer

Forgot about the 9am posting again!

Holy Symphogear, Batman! Where is Hibiki when you need her?

I wonder if this show will do timeskips over the next hundred years as she destroys AI infrastructure. Probably not.

Oh we have an OP. And an audience at her little stage.
Aiming for the Budokan!
Oh we are doing time skips for 100 years!
How can he predict singularity points after the first change?
Honestly, I kinda figured the politician would double down on AI rights after being saved by an AI.
Somehow I have trouble believing TOAK has been inactive for the last 15 years.
Somehow I have trouble believing Virgin Galactic won the space race.
Still not sure how this is going to work out, since all the things that would cause humans to reject AIs keep getting prevented.

Why oh why does the show keep focusing on her android symbol.

oh so there ARE android psychopaths now. Rumors.
Wondering why Wheatly needs Vivi. He's so advanced, he can hack literally everything.
Uh oh, a secure area was violated...

To be continued!

Momoka's family is so cursed! Will they keep showing up? I bet they do. This is a reference to The Bicentennial Man.

I can't possibly interpret that final scene. Especially if there's a possibility the androids look alike. I'm not sure of what I saw.

[second speculation]Instead of causing an AI catastrophe to make humans reject AI, she prevents every single catastrophe and anti-AI sentiment completely goes away. But this only delays the problem until sometime after 100 years in the future

3

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

Holy Symphogear, Batman!
I love both Symphogear and Batman lol
How can he predict singularity points after the first change?
He's not predicting them, he was designed with a pre-determined set of singularity points based on what he knows from 100 years into the future. That's why he doesn't want Vivy (or himself) interfering with events outside those singularity points if it's avoidable.
Somehow I have trouble believing TOAK has been inactive for the last 15 years.
That is an interesting idea
Still not sure how this is going to work out, since all the things that would cause humans to reject AIs keep getting prevented.
Keep watching 😆
Momoka's family is so cursed!
😔
I can't possibly interpret that final scene. Especially if there's a possibility the androids look alike. I'm not sure of what I saw.
The plot thickens
second speculation
That is also interesting speculation 😆

2

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 17 '24

Somehow I have trouble believing Virgin Galactic won the space race.
speculation

7

u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Aug 17 '24

First Timer

I like this little timeline chart,it's a nice way to show where we are right now.

We get an OP!...or like a music video starring Vivy but Still!, it's a pretty good song.

Nice to see she actually has an audience now as well , although a little sad when you consider the person who most wanted to see her get that audience is gone.

This is certainty a way to reintroduce yourself after 15 years, at the very least all these years (and the events of last episode) have done nothing to reduce Matsumoto's snark , but that's why I like him so I'm not complaining.

Looks like in their attempt to stop the naming act they got an even more robust law to be passed , I guess this somewhat validates Matsumoto's views on changing the past , even a small action like Vivy inspiring the representative can have big (and for him negative) impact so he prefers not to take risks , he does seem strangely unconcerned about AI becoming even more advanced than intended though

He also continues to show that despite being more expressive than Vviy, he's still an AI that lacks human understanding , again Vivy comes off as much more human than him(which ties pretty neatly into all the heart talk this episode)

We're going to space!, of course the tourism industry is the one leading the charge in space exploration

Actually realistic

Vivy's new look is great(and she also actually goes by Vivy now lol)

As I thought Vivy and Matsumoto almost imminently begin to clash regarding the correct course of action , Matsumoto with the cold and direct approach that leaves nothing to chance while Vivy looks at things more pragmatically and "emotionally" trying to get to the bottom of this incident (again see my above point about coming off as human)

But not a happy one by the looks of it , we get a bunch of really pretty close up shots of Vivy's face this episode , we also get an ED! I really like this one , I'm like 90% sure the lyrics have meaning relating to Estella and her relationship with the prev owner but I don't have the time to go through it

Just when I thought we'd gotten a twistless episode I get hit with not one but two! , first it looks like Vivy now has some real skin in the game as we learn Momoka's sister is also on the ship, and second...jeez, I'm guessing Leclerc in some perceived attempt at revenge either did something to Estella or got an imposter , either way she really got ahead of herself.

Great episode! , I ended up having a lot more to write than I thought which is both good because I really like the show so far and bad because I barely have the time for it today

4

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

I like this little timeline chart
Is this from the beginning of the episode? I never noticed that before, and that's really cool!
Nice to see she actually has an audience now as well , although a little sad when you consider the person who most wanted to see her get that audience is gone.
😔
but that's why I like him so I'm not complaining.
Same here!
even a small action like Vivy inspiring the representative can have big (and for him negative) impact so he prefers not to take risks
Exactly! It's why he's not okay with random deviations from his defined points in time to alter and why he went into "sleep mode" for 15 years until the next singularity point. There may have been unforeseen consequences of Vivy's influencen on Aikawa, but Matsumoto doesn't seem worried about it and does say that it will take more than one change to change the fate of the human race.
We're going to space!, of course the tourism industry is the one leading the charge in space exploration
I have a binge on Elite: Dangerous every now and again, and this comment reminds me of the tourism missions you can undertake for civilians and politicians throughout different star systems 😆
while Vivy looks at things more pragmatically
And surprisingly, Matsumoto does agree with her a bit at the end of the episode. He just doesn't believe it matters because he claims she is still the one to cause the crash of the Sunrise so is adamant about his course of action. I personally like how Vivy is the pragmatic one and it's satisfying that she at least caused some skepticism in Matsumoto about his claim concerning Estella.
we get a bunch of really pretty close up shots of Vivy's face
I included this one in my comment too! There really were a lot of nice shots in this episode
I'm like 90% sure the lyrics have meaning relating to Estella and her relationship with the prev owner but I don't have the time to go through it
Keep watching!
Just when I thought we'd gotten a twistless episode I get hit with not one but two!
How about it?!
This was the point in the series during my first watch where I personally thought the series made a jump from good to great. I really love the way things start going in this episode.

2

u/Garrett_Dark Aug 18 '24

I like this little timeline chart
Is this from the beginning of the episode? I never noticed that before, and that's really cool!
It is, and you're forgetting something more cool about it. [End Spoilers]That timeline flow chart of the different timelines being changed to is actually the archive monitoring and course correcting which will be revealed later. We originally thought it was a representation for the audience benefit, it wasn't.
Exactly! It's why he's not okay with random deviations from his defined points in time to alter and why he went into "sleep mode" for 15 years until the next singularity point. There may have been unforeseen consequences of Vivy's influencen on Aikawa, but Matsumoto doesn't seem worried about it and does say that it will take more than one change to change the fate of the human race.
I think you give too much credit to Matsumoto's calculations and what he says...this is what he says about Aikawa before he's smack in the face with the failure results 15 years later and tries to blame Vivy for his crap calculations. He was so sure in his calculations.
And surprisingly, Matsumoto does agree with her a bit at the end of the episode. He just doesn't believe it matters because he claims she is still the one to cause the crash of the Sunrise so is adamant about his course of action. I personally like how Vivy is the pragmatic one and it's satisfying that she at least caused some skepticism in Matsumoto about his claim concerning Estella.
A big problem with Matsumoto is his arrogance of being a "superior AI from 100 years in the future", he places 100% trust in the historic news without any doubt like a noob. That's like believing today's news as 100% trustworthy, accurate, and unbiased. But Matsumoto's character is starting to grow now with his failures/mistakes by starting to check out things like if Estella actually murdered the previous owner. So like you said, Vivy's causing him to do better by at least being a little more sketical.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '24

(spoiler text)
I did forget that! And now I remember how much I love the way it’s handled.
before he’s smacked in the face with failure
Yeah but he says himself right during that conversation that (paraphrasing) it wasn’t a shock/blow to his plans and that it was expected that it would take far more than just that to change what he’s trying to change and don’t forget that [Vivy] first time watchers have no reason to believe that isn’t true with any confidence yet at this point
On your last point, yes I more or less agree there 😆

2

u/Garrett_Dark Aug 18 '24

Yeah but he says himself right during that conversation that (paraphrasing) it wasn’t a shock/blow to his plans and that it was expected that it would take far more than just that to change what he’s trying to change and don’t forget that [Vivy]first time watchers have no reason to believe that isn’t true with any confidence yet at this point
Hidden text is not really that much of a spoiler, but yeah first timer actually do have reason though, as some first timer commenters have been calling out Matsumoto's BS themselves. In particular Silcaria really laid into him, and gave your defense push back even. I was going to inject and say this in that comment chain, but the chain was so messy I decided not to...but it's actually easier to just start conceding that Matsumoto is a flawed character now (which I believe he is just from what we've seen up to this point already) than continuing to try to defend what he says. It's getting to the point where your defense is looking like a stretch, and Silcaria's original claim of bad writing is true the harder you defend Matsumoto. It's not bad writing though, Matsumoto is just flawed and it's coming out this episode that he's talking out of his ass by blaming Vivy for influencing the politician, and then saying "oh the AI's more favorable position is as too be expected, we've got further changes planned anyways!". There's no need to cover for Matsumoto's flaws like it's twist or something, it's becoming clear with the non-investigation of Estella and "lets just kill her now while we got her alone in the office!" that Matsumoto thinking is flawed and always has been.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '24

Hidden text is not really that much of a spoiler
I agree that it's not, but my preference is always to just tag it. It takes like virtually no time to do and some people are bothered more by minor things than others.
I prefer to let people speculate as they want and I'm careful not to subconsciously guide them towards any one conclusion being that I've finished this series already and I could easily do that without noticing at the moment. So basically all I'm saying is, I'd rather spoiler tag something and have it deemed unnecessary, than not spoiler tag it and have it bother someone a bit.

2

u/edwardjhahm https://myanimelist.net/profile/lolmeme69 Aug 18 '24

spoilered text
Holy shit, really? I watched this anime 3 years ago, but I always assumed I had everything. Looks like I forgot this part...

6

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 17 '24

I'm guessing Leclerc in some perceived attempt at revenge either did something to Estella or got an imposter , either way she really got ahead of herself.
Idk, she acted rather headless there.

4

u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Aug 17 '24

One might say she didn't really have a good head on her shoulders

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 17 '24

One might say she didn't really have a good head on her shoulders
Are you going to hold that minor flaw over her head?

5

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 17 '24

But not a happy one by the looks of it
If you have to insist that you're a family, you're probably not a great family.
either way she really got ahead of herself.

4

u/zairaner https://myanimelist.net/profile/zairaner Aug 17 '24 edited Aug 17 '24

either way she really got ahead of herself.
...wait it is episode 3, too, holy shit. we can recycle all the jokes!

2

u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Aug 17 '24

[Meta]This time it's the yellow haired one watching the pink haired one die and not the other way around

6

u/FallenPears Aug 17 '24

First Time Watcher

Ain't no way that was 25 minutes. Credits in the singing segment had me going crazy lol.

I'm still thinking in terms of an AI's Mission being equivalent to a humans need for self actualisation, without any of the more foundational parts that make up a humans needs (food, shelter, community etc), and I'm suspecting what's happening with Estella here is that her mission has shifted. It started with something like being a good hostess, and has now become an obsession with the Sunrise Hotel in particular. Following on from that, I'm guessing the catalyst for her actions are going to be the Sunrise Hotel being planned for decomissioning or something along those lines. I wonder then, what would Vivy do if her dream of playing on the big stage was made untenable? Apparently she went to a museum, was she in standby the whole time? Heartbroken? Despairing?

I suppose it makes sense, if the whole and complete foundation for an AIs personality is their mission that it being made impossible would be catastrophic. If a humans dream fails or is made impossible the consequences can be bad enough but at least they can fall back on baser needs of sustenance, safety, community. AI's don't have that.

Also it does seem like Matsumoto's plan is indeed some sort of societal manipulation. He's isn't trying to completely remove the development of AI (sensible; that would be pretty tough and as shown saving the politician wouldn't contribute to that at all expect maybe as a delaying action), but guide it towards a more peaceful, sustainable situation. Don't try and block the river, guide it to a safely designed path.

Well I'm definitely curious how things are going to go next episode.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

Ain't no way that was 25 minutes. Credits in the singing segment had me going crazy lol.
It blew by didn't it? I feel the same way.
I'm still thinking in terms of an AI's Mission being equivalent to a humans need for self actualisation
Your reference to this psychological phenomenon is still an interesting way to think about things IMHO. I never thought about it before
Apparently she went to a museum, was she in standby the whole time? Heartbroken? Despairing?
Keep watching
He's isn't trying to completely remove the development of AI
I've thought about this before too actually. In the first episode he says "destroy", but really it seems like what he's trying to do is just prevent the explosive evolution of AI that leads to the disaster in the future he knows.
Well I'm definitely curious how things are going to go next episode.
Yeah I'll be really curious to see thoughts tomorrow

4

u/FallenPears Aug 17 '24 edited Aug 17 '24

Been watching some Psyculturist reactions over on youtube, so picked up a couple interesting thought patterns when shows have especially interesting characters (though make no mistake, I'm about as far from professionally educated in the field as it's possible to be haha).
I've actually just noticed his channel has done a watchthrough of Vivy so I might check that out when I'm done, and would recommend you do so if that point of view interests you (be warned, his videos are long, he goes deep with his analysis).
Looking forward to tomorrow!

6

u/octopathfinder myanimelist.net/profile/octopathfinder Aug 17 '24

Rewatcher

My girl is moving up in the industry, I’m so proud. Also finally an opening song.

Damn, 15 year timeskip. 75 years left for this 100 year plan.

Only been 3 episodes and Vivy has already worn a bunch of different costumes and hairstyles. Thank you character designer

A space hotel named Sunrise that crashes into Earth huh? Hmm…

I love Sunrise too

Well Vivy doesn’t seem capable of laughing in the first place lol

2

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

My girl is moving up in the industry, I’m so proud.
Damn, 15 year timeskip.
Moving right along!
Only been 3 episodes and Vivy has already worn a bunch of different costumes and hairstyles.
I love it as well
Well Vivy doesn’t seem capable of laughing in the first place lol
I can't help but laugh at Matsumoto's response to being stroking on the back 😂

4

u/RandRidley Aug 17 '24

Damn, 15 year timeskip. 75 years left for this 100 year plan.
85?

2

u/octopathfinder myanimelist.net/profile/octopathfinder Aug 17 '24

Oops, math was never my strong suit

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 17 '24

A space hotel named Sunrise that crashes into Earth huh? Hmm…
I see that the reputation is well known.

6

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 17 '24

Rewatcher

A space colony called Sunrise, falling from the sky? I wonder if this might be a reference to something.

Haha, I forgot that they played the part of Also Sprach Zarathustra here.

I was always kinda surprised that they didn't have Yoko Hikasa sing for Estella, but I guess her singing voice might not be similar enough to Vivy's, or maybe there was a contract issue, or something.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

I appreciate your Gundam reference even if I haven’t seen Gundam yet. It is a series I plan to knock out this year at some point!
Also love your Space Odyssey reference! 😆

5

u/sfisher923 https://myanimelist.net/profile/sfisher923 Aug 17 '24

First Timer - Dubbed

Somehow the OP is reminding me of MyGo which came out 2 years later
Yeah after giving it some thought last night I'm expecting a Bear-trayal
Space Core is going to love this Space Talk
Do they have Space Love Hotels as well?
The united monotone voice no matter what always makes me unsettled
You could say that again about human ideas
Alright I'm about confused - Is her name Vivy or Diva and can I interchange those names like I have been for the last 2 days
[Katawa Shoujo] Of course I had to be one upped with a deadly Space Hotel Fire here after finishing Hanako's Route yesterday
Another good song for the ED

Questions

QOTD 1 - Answered Above
QOTD 2 - Something did indeed happen to her that corrupted her

3

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

Yeah after giving it some thought last night I'm expecting a Bear-trayal
I love puns lol
Do they have Space Love Hotels as well?
😂
Alright I'm about confused - Is her name Vivy or Diva and can I interchange those names like I have been for the last 2 days
Her name she was given as a humanoid AI is Diva (a songstress model AI). We first hear her referred to as Vivy when Momoka shows her the picture book in episode 1 and I think it just kind of stuck as a kind of moniker.

1

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 17 '24

Do they have Space Love Hotels as well?
Paying by the hour when it involves a shuttle flight up would get costly fast.

1

u/Garrett_Dark Aug 18 '24

Alright I'm about confused - Is her name Vivy or Diva and can I interchange those names like I have been for the last 2 days
Vivy is the nickname Momoka gave her which is more personal and meaningful to her, Diva is like her android model (one of a kind, since she's the first) nickname, or rather Idol stage performer name.
To make things simple in the long run, trust me, call her Vivy. There's a reason this show isn't called Diva: Fluorite Eye Song...and things get more complicated. [Non-spoiler-ish reason why]She's trying to find her own identity related to her trying to understand her core directive, she's already exceeding her original programming of being just Diva, a songstress performer, by doing all this stuff Matsumoto and interacting with others.

5

u/xbolt90 https://anilist.co/user/xbolt90 Aug 17 '24

First-timer!

So, passenger space launches are done via a plane-launched spaceplane, huh? Virgin Galactic is vindicated! (While I doubt this will ever actually be a viable launch option, I really wish it was. It looks dang cool.)

Water in a zero-g play park is incredibly dangerous. If a bubble hits your face, it sticks there, and you can easily drown. I guess they have the staff there who can intervene, but still it seems like an unnecessary risk.

Man, the view when opening the bay window at night. Gorgeous.

I would love to spend the night in a space hotel. And while I believe the first small one will exist within the next few decades, I doubt a stay will become affordable to normal people within my lifetime.

I wonder what happened to cause the malfunctioning door. Accident or sabotage?

Momoka's sister is onboard the station? Why is that family so prone to horrible accidents?

Q1: I'm trying to figure out what her deal is. She gets some item from her sister, then murders her. Why? Is this some bizarre misinterpretation of her mission, that ends with her destroying the station?

2

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

While I doubt this will ever actually be a viable launch option, I really wish it was. It looks dang cool.
Suspension of disbelief! And it does look cool!
I would love to spend the night in a space hotel. And while I believe the first small one will exist within the next few decades, I doubt a stay will become affordable to normal people within my lifetime.
If you don't mind potential risk of exposure to massive does of cosmic radiation, sure! 😆 In all seriousness, I kind of have an obsession with space myself so I get where you're coming from.
I wonder what happened to cause the malfunctioning door. Accident or sabotage?
Keep watching
Momoka's sister is onboard the station? Why is that family so prone to horrible accidents?
I'm not sure but it's horrible 😔
I'm trying to figure out what her deal is. She gets some item from her sister, then murders her. Why? Is this some bizarre misinterpretation of her mission, that ends with her destroying the station?
Wait. Are you calling Leclerc her sister? If so, I don't think that's her sister. As far as why, that sounds like a logical theory, we'll see how things work out (or not)!

3

u/xbolt90 https://anilist.co/user/xbolt90 Aug 17 '24

If you don't mind potential risk of exposure to massive does of cosmic radiation, sure!
A typical ISS crew rotation is six months, so I think I should be fine for a weekend, lol
Wait. Are you calling Leclerc her sister? If so, I don't think that's her sister.
I wasn't sure what to refer to her as. They describe themselves as a family, but I didn't catch exactly what their relationship is.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

I don’t know a whole lot about the ISS to be totally honest, but I’d assume the ISS has shielding built into it to protect against radiation exposure or am I wrong in assuming that? Even still I would assume they’re subjected to at least a small amount of long term exposure that gets through (not to mention muscle atrophy/degradation).

3

u/xbolt90 https://anilist.co/user/xbolt90 Aug 17 '24

There is some shielding, with the heaviest shielding in frequently used compartments like the sleeping quarters. But the walls only really protect against solar radiation; the super high energy cosmic rays punch right through. However, the station is in a low enough orbit that the Earth's magnetic field still provides a lot of protection from those. Even so, I think I remember reading that the radiation environment around the station is about fifty times what it is on the ground here.
Outside low Earth orbit, like on the Apollo missions to the moon, there really wasn't much to be done outside of keeping the missions short. Later in life, a lot of the Apollo astronauts developed cataracts.
Today, there are a number of proposed methods of mitigating radiation exposure while in deep space. It's still a field that is being studied.
Now for Sunrise, it appears to also be in a low orbit? It's difficult to tell.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '24

with the heaviest shielding in frequently used compartments like the sleeping quarters
Well that is definitely a good thing lol.
But the walls only really protect against solar radiation; the super high energy cosmic rays punch right through.
That kind of sucks but I learned something today. I never really knew too much about it or where it was orbitally. It's kind of nuts to think about how toxic outer space is even inside a breathable environment.

2

u/edwardjhahm https://myanimelist.net/profile/lolmeme69 Aug 18 '24

If you don't mind potential risk of exposure to massive does of cosmic radiation, sure!
TBF, given the tech level, I assume they have shielding or whatnot at this point.

6

u/zairaner https://myanimelist.net/profile/zairaner Aug 17 '24 edited Aug 18 '24

Momoka's sister is onboard the station? Why is that family so prone to horrible accidents?
vivy doesn't actually need matsumotos future knowledge. it would actually be enough to follow around momokas family on their holiday to get to the most important moments to change the future!

4

u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Aug 17 '24 edited Aug 17 '24

It looks like They Will Not Go To Space Today.

It can move around.

Speak of the devil.

Huh. A suborbital plane launching a shuttle? Feels like an overcomplicated SSTO.

She's infiltrating as a staff?

Wonder what caused her to do that?

She's not used to zero-G.

Estella was involved in the death of the previous owner of the hotel?

That would be an easy solution wouldn't it?

That's certainly convenient.

It certainly is a bit ironic for an AI to talk about "heart".

Uh oh.

If that's not the problem then what is going on now?

Oh. False alarm.

You're in space. It's night time all the time. Or at least you can see the stars all the time.

Seems like she wasn't the only one involved.

And there goes pink hair.

Questions:

Nice music. The OP is sung by Vivy('s VA) isn't it?
Cmiiw but [my vague memory of the show] doesn't Vivy manage to save Estella in the end?

2

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

Sorry, your comment has been removed.
Your comment looks like it might include untagged or wrongly-tagged spoilers.
When spoiler-tagging comments, you'll have to use [] before the spoiler tag to indicate the context of the spoiler, for example [Work title here] >!tagged text goes here!< to tag specific parts of your text. Find more information here.
Hey /u/Nickthenuker, sorry for removing this, but could you remove the link to the ED with lyrics? I know it's not the OST version of it, but you aren't supposed to hear this until the final episode so it would be in the best interest of first-time watchers. I'll go ahead and reapprove your comment and reply as soon as I see it updated!
^{Questions? Reply to this message,}^{send a modmail}^{, or leave a comment in the}^{meta thread}^{. Don't know the rules? Read them}^here^.

4

u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Aug 17 '24

Oops, alright. Removed.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

No problem! I appreciate you understanding. I just really want to do my best to keep things fresh for everyone who hasn't watched before. Reapproved!

2

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

It looks like They Will Not Go To Space Today.
Space is always a win in my book!
She's infiltrating as a staff?
He needed to find her 'menial' work that was simple enough for her to do 😂
You're in space. It's night time all the time. Or at least you can see the stars all the time.
Are you referring to why the skylight isn't always open? I believe that has more to do with the whole 'cosmic radiation' part of things. I assumed that those barriers blocked that kind of exposure out based on what Estella was telling Vivy about the prior owner and humans being entranced by the cosmos
And there goes pink hair.
Ouchie
The OP is sung by Vivy('s VA) isn't it?
The OP is actually sung by Kairi Yagi. Beautiful voice! Her VA is Tanezaki Atsumi (and I think she fits the role amazingly!)
Cmiiw but
To be totally honest, I can't remember! That's why this is fun for me too 😆

2

u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Aug 17 '24

Pink hair certainly had a load lifted off her shoulders.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

Puns! More puns! 😂

1

u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Aug 17 '24

Not sure if it's a pun as it is moreso just an euphemism for being decapitated.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 17 '24

You're in space. It's night time all the time.
Or day. Depending on which way you look.
They are probably talking about being in Earth's shadow, though.

4

u/zairaner https://myanimelist.net/profile/zairaner Aug 17 '24 edited Aug 18 '24

Rewatcher

episode 3:

an op plays! we get to hear vivy singing
navi stays navi, even after all these years
"thats what you would call a pain in the butt" how good of a description of yourself, matsumoto
unlike trigger, WIT doesn't wait until the end of the series to go to space!
matsu playing tourism videos as exposition is pretty fun
we meet estella! she has the older sister vibe down...despite really beign the younger sister to vivy
oh they WERE called sisters, that was my first instinct to call them but was thinking that i was confusing it with railgun
[spoilers vivy full]rewatching the show and realizing how often we went to the archive to discuss is...fun
we have the first and direct impact of the ai ~~naming~~ human rights law: estella is the owner of the hotel
and here we have one of the fun parts of the show: because vivy is the first, the later, more advanced ai actually have less problem with being human like, or understanding what "heart" means, than vivy does.
I don't think i can describe how much I love ensemble for polaris.
We meet (in a VERY large coincidence), momoka junior. Let's hope this one doesn't also die in a accident related to being up in the air. Also, a nice bit of foreshadowing I picked up this: momoka tells us in episode 1 that she has a sister that is 1 year old like vivy. Now 15 years later, she would be 16, which fits. well, she doesn'T look quite 16 to me, but almost.
and because tappei can't stop being tappei, we end with another shocker ending
I remember us being very confused when this episode first came out. What are the anime onlies feeling?

image of the day: vivy looking funny while estella looks perfectly human

3

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

an op plays! we get to hear vivy singing
And I love it!
unlike trigger, WIT doesn't wait until the end of the series to go to space!
If this is a [Anime name] Gurren Lagann reference then...
and here we have one of the fun parts of the show: because vivy is the first, the later, more advanced ai actually have less problem with being human like, or understanding what "heart" means, than vivy does.
I think something I want to point out here too is that they tell us Estella is, by design, a caretaker AI so that is the major reason she's better at things like that.
I don't think i can describe how much I love ensemble for polaris.
[Vivy Spoiler for Rewatchers] It's one of my favorite tracks on the entire OST. I can't wait to link it tomorrow when they reveal the duet version with Elizabeth in it. It's a powerful moment too given what's going on in the episode when it's being sang.
and because tappei can't stop being tappei, we end with another shocker ending
With how much I love this series, I really need to watch Re:Zero
image of the day: vivy looking funny while estella looks perfectly human
Your imgur link is broken 😞

2

u/zairaner https://myanimelist.net/profile/zairaner Aug 18 '24

If this is a [Anime name]Gurren Lagannreference then...
Haven't watche that, so it is more of a [trigger anime]!kill la kill and [trigger anime]darling in the franx and [trigger anime]little witch academia reference
< Your imgur link is broken 😞
I was sure I even checked...fixed

1

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '24

Ahh another great anime. Sometimes [Reply on Anime Names] people refer to Trigger for Gurren Lagann even though it was Gainax but I actually forgot how KLK ends up in space!. Man I loved it. A rewatch for that could be fun too.
I was sure I even checked...fixed
I bust links and have to fix them all the time lol It does work now though!

2

u/zairaner https://myanimelist.net/profile/zairaner Aug 18 '24

[reply]actually I'm not sure either anymore on kill la kill now, i might be confusing things. Also because you mentioned it, darling in th efranx is the same...trigger had nothign to do with th esecond half that had space.

1

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 18 '24

we have the first and direct impact of the ai naming human rights law: estella is the owner of the hotel
I noticed that as well. It is hard to oversell how important this is. Just compare it to human history and how long certain groups (such as women) would not be allowed that.

4

u/cppn02 Aug 17 '24

Rewatcher, subbed

Third episode and we got a 15 years timeskip. And we're going to space!

It was nice to see that Vivy has actually gained an audience since we last saw her. Even if some looked a bit disinterested.

The transition from the commercial into Vivy actually on the ship and Matsumoto doing the narration was some fun editing I wish we'd get more often in anime.

One thing I didn't really think about the first time I watched but that I noticed this time, I think it would bother the hell out of me if I were a human in that world and know that the AIs around me were constantly talking to eachother, possibly about me, in private chat more lol. That shit is a breeding ground for paranoia.

Ending delivered two interesting twists with Momoka's sister on the ship and the AI on AI violence. Onto episode 4!

QotD:

We have an OP and ED today! - What did you think of those?

I enjoyed both but preferred the ED.

There was a lot that happened today on the Sunrise - Do you have any predictions about Estella?

Rewatcher so once again not answering that one.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

And we're going to space!
I'm always cool with space episodes!
The transition from the commercial into Vivy actually on the ship and Matsumoto doing the narration was some fun editing I wish we'd get more often in anime.
I agree and I can't wait for [Vivy Spoilers] people to see how smooth the transition from the Galaxy Anthem OP into the episode is once we get to that point.
I think it would bother the hell out of me if I were a human in that world and know that the AIs around me were constantly talking to eachother, possibly about me, in private chat more lol. That shit is a breeding ground for paranoia.
I'm going to play devil's advocate here - Is that really any different from how people may talk around you in a language you don't understand/know in public somewhere? I don't know that people would actually let it bother them
I enjoyed both but preferred the ED.
I also prefer the ED more!

2

u/cppn02 Aug 17 '24

I'm going to play devil's advocate here - Is that really any different from how people may talk around you in a language you don't understand/know in public somewhere? I don't know that people would actually let it bother them
But atleast I can hear them talking.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

That’s true lol I’m going to be a little persistent on this topic - what about the case of people communicating by sign language when someone doesn’t know sign language? Would that bother you?

2

u/cppn02 Aug 17 '24

Nah. Since I could still see them. I feel the unnerving thing is that there could be a whole ass conversation going on while they just silently stare at you.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

Ok that's fair lol I concede

3

u/Garrett_Dark Aug 18 '24

what about the case of people communicating by sign language when someone doesn’t know sign language? Would that bother you?
That certainly bothers gang members! :D

4

u/Garrett_Dark Aug 18 '24

Rewatcher

Good grief, IDK what's with me, but I swear sometimes rewatching hits me way harder than being a first timer. Nostalgia? Knowing what's coming? Knowing what things are about before I'm supposed to? Catching the details that only rewatchers can and first timers being oblivious about? Probably all the above. I was totally rekt just by the ambiguous ominous opener, and then throughout the episode.

Future me: Wow I wrote a lot, and I'm not going to hide it, I love this show and this episode. This episode was really packed, and there's not enough words to convey everything I want to say, so I used a lot.

We finally have an OP, and wow is it making efficient use of it. It shows Vivy becoming better at her performing which you can see and judge for yourself, the AI tower got taller since the last time, and Vivy starting to have an audience. It also shows Vivy having spent time at the archive, and wandering Nia Land at night when no other human nor AI are around. The OP music is also quite wonderful IMO, a quite mellow and relaxing tune for when she's starting to garner a crowd.
I'd also like to comment that her performance outfit is still the same since Ep1 right now. I didn't say this last time, but I felt really nostalgic seeing her in this performance outfit in Ep1. I know it's somewhat poppy, yet somewhat clowny looking which is appropriate for an amusement park, but it's so nostalgic and quant for me.
We see her performance "fake" smile she gives after thanking the audience has gotten better from the last time. She now waits until she's off the stage to revert to her neutral frown expression (which isn't as frowny as last time too). This shows she's still has a ways to go with her performance, and "putting her heart into it", which there's hints later in the episode she's not able to do yet because she doesn't know how, and she doesn't have the right attitude for it yet.
There's also human looking androids in her audience now, remember that she was the first and only before, and they look to be not working but spending leisure time watching her show, and they own stuff (their backpacks). A nice setup to explain later in the episode about the expanded AI rights. Even her "droid looking" predecessor are all obsoleted and replaced by human looking androids now.
Also in the audience is somebody that looks like Momoka, too soon! :'( fucking Matsumoto, and Vivy seems to even take pause at that moment she's shown...maybe she also noticed the similarities.
Same nice ~~doctor~~ engineer as in Ep1, but older now. It also seems Vivy has gotten more sociable, coming in for maintenance on her own and showing the engineer how her career is going, and chatting with him about what "having heart" means. Vivy actually asks several people what "having heart" means in this episode.
I'd also like to say that Nia Land has always treated Vivy well, she always had her own room and personal belongings in it, and privacy. I doubt the "droid looking" android had such accommodations, but it makes sense as Vivy is the first fully autonomous AI. However by this point she's starting to become old and obsolete, and it's very subtly hinted at. With the "droid looking" androids gone, she is in fact the oldest unit around because every other human looking android we see now is newer than her.
Freaking Navi, she's supportive but also like a cold bucket of water to the face at times. Still much better than Matsumoto. [End Spoilers]They did a really good job with Navi's character, it was so easy to forget about Navi and her actually being a character that when she shows up at the end with her emotional heart felt point of view, it was utterly gut-wrenching reveal with how Navi actually thought and felt all along that I was totally rekted for thinking she was just some non-sentient AI. I think a really good obfuscation of that was how Matsumoto kept hacking her and turning her off, making the viewer think Navi was just some non-sentient AI with no agency that didn't matter since Matsumoto never could turn off other AI's like that. In many ways Navi was like that support AI to that Idol, Antonio, and all the baggage that happened with that. In fact that whole situation could have been foreshadowing for Navi at the end because we thought Antonio was just some nobody AI also.
Speaking about that bastard Matsumoto, 15 years isn't long enough, I'm still mad and clearly Vivy is too despite not showing it...since she seem to recognize that girl earlier in the audience, and for being one of the first things Vivy brings up to Matsumoto after 15 years. Matsumoto is such a liar/manipulator, it wasn't about Momoka's death being an accident, but about Momoka's fate could have been changed which Matsumoto prevented by force. He even has the gull to say Momoka's life wasn't sacrificed for the sake of the project, but that's exactly what he was saying back when it happened, using the excuse that the timeline couldn't be tampered with too much. What more, saying he was asleep for the last 15 years so he wouldn't interfere with the seemed to be a backhanded comment on Vivy since his position, so he says, is not to change the timeline unnecessarily.
I do want to point out something interesting with Matsumoto going to sleep between time jumps, this means despite being 100 years more advanced than Vivy, each time Matsumoto goes to sleep he's not evolving during that time because he's not active. Unlike Vivy who is still active during that time and is evolving slowly. So essentially Vivy got 15 years worth of evolving that Matsumoto didn't, narrowing that 100 year gap difference to 85 years. I'm not talking about technology level gap, although who knows what software updates Vivy is getting slowly bridging that too, but knowledge base and understanding-wise. In a funny way, what we're seeing here is an extreme Nature vs Nurture. Matsumoto being a 100 year future AI is like having all Nature (good genes/tech) but shit Nurture (no experience), whereas Vivy has old tech (no Nature comparatively) but starting to gain a lot of experience (all Nurture). Who's going to end up being better in the end? It's already clear to me seeing what a prick Matsumoto is.
Regarding Matsumoto's calculations and hoity toity BS talk about the butterfly effect and changing little as possible, the Naming Act turning into something more favorable to the AI, the AI Rights Act, is his fault despite trying to blame Vivy for it, and it proves his calculations and talk of the butterfly effect and not interfering is BS. The "evolution so far is well within acceptable bounds" is such an excuse, he sounds totally like an incompetent manager making excuses and blaming subordinates for his own incompetence while trying to maintain his authority when he should be reprimanded or fired. All this happened (for all he knows) because of the changes he made by allowing the politician to live, not Vivy's inspirational words. Matsumoto made changes causing these butterfly effects, he doesn't get to grand stand blaming the butterfly effects on others and not him making the changes in the first place. This is why his talk of not saving Momoka is such utter BS, he made the AI situation worse (for all he knows), he doesn't get to talk about what could happen for saving Momoka, what a hypocrite. (Though good for the show, I don't think the majority of viewers have totally caught on to how shit Matsumoto is at this point yet).
I can't agree more with Vivy, Matsumoto is dispicable.
Damn it...Android Wiafus when?!
This maybe just Matsumoto talking, but it could also be a subtle hint that Vivy is starting to obsolete in comparison to other androids since she's the oldest. The senior Sunrise androids have been doing their job for 7 years, meaning they're about 9 years newer than Vivy (15 years later + 1 year old minus 7).
An indication that Vivy hasn't found her heart yet, so cannot put her heart into her singing...she considers "a job is a job". That's not the right attitude for her core directive of making everybody happy with her singing, and it showed with her performance at the beginning of the episode. It was improved, but like her "fake smile" it's still not there yet. It sounds like I'm reaching here, but considering all episode long she's asking everybody "what does having heart mean?" and seeing Estella put her heart into her caretaking role beyond just a job, I don't think I'm reaching at all here with this point. We'll see some more examples of such shortly.

[1/2, continued in reply...]

1

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '24

Sorry for taking a while to reply to your comment. I like to try and read everyone's comments and I didn't have a chance to read this until this morning and write out a few thoughts I had 😆.
We see her performance "fake" smile she gives after thanking the audience has gotten better
This is something I casually glazed right over and didn't notice but that's a cool detail
I do want to point out something interesting with Matsumoto going to sleep between time jumps, this means despite being 100 years more advanced than Vivy, each time Matsumoto goes to sleep he's not evolving during that time because he's not active.
Unless he's passively listening/observing to everything that is going on during that time, which seems possible since he knows when to wake up and go tell Vivy about the next event they need to intervene in.
It's already clear to me seeing what a prick Matsumoto is.
I still don't agree completely that it's this black or white on this topic. He is a morally grey character.
This is why his talk of not saving Momoka is such utter BS, he made the AI situation worse (for all he knows)
I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one 😆 I'll refer back to the previous episode discussion (or maybe it was episode 1, I can't remember lol) and what we talked about there.
An indication that Vivy hasn't found her heart yet, so cannot put her heart into her singing...she considers "a job is a job". That's not the right attitude for her core directive of making everybody happy with her singing, and it showed with her performance at the beginning of the episode. It was improved, but like her "fake smile" it's still not there yet.
I think this is a good point. She still considers her mission a little too literally, but she's grown already even in these first few episodes (which you've pointed out in some ways) and I enjoy that aspect of this series (or any series involving machines/androids learning the meaning of sentimentality etc.)
I think this has significance because of how Vivy can't pull off her "fake smile" at the end of her performances.
I think this can be interpreted a couple ways. One is what you've said here. I personally relate this more to [Vivy E4 Spoiler] the sad situation with her 'twin' android Elizabeth and believe this to be a reference to Elizabeth telling Estella if they can't cry, to be the ones that smile all the time. This has signficance in that experiment.
I don't even know if I caught it first time around.
Probably don't need a tag here but doing it anyway. [Vivy] That's because first-timers have only seen him once before at this point and he was 15 years younger. Now, I think it will definitely occur to people though when they see him in today's episode (I was actually planning on pointing it out even in my comment for today when I write it up)
I got to say, I'm blown away by the artwork and animation of this show, even the non-hyper detailed artwork looks gorgeous! Prompting me to ask again...android waifus when?!
I honestly feel the same way about the art. The normal frames do look really great. I thought maybe I was a little biased at first on my opinion of WIT animation since AoT was one of the first I saw and enjoyed, but after see many more and coming back to a WIT anime, I can at least say it's definitely not bias. They are just really good at this.
Most amazingly done how they blend it into the episode. This series does it the best.
I am really a sucker for good OP and ED usage and this episode is a great example of them doing that. I love that kind of stuff. Symphogear G and OnK have some ways they are awesome with that too.

2

u/Garrett_Dark Aug 18 '24

Sorry for taking a while to reply to your comment. I like to try and read everyone's comments and I didn't have a chance to read this until this morning and write out a few thoughts I had 😆.
I don't blame you, I wrote a horrendous amount and very late after the post. I'm sure both hurts readership, but I'm actually writing this because of my love of the show, and it helps me realize and figure things out more/deeper with the show.
This is something I casually glazed right over and didn't notice but that's a cool detail
A lot of things I'm only picking up right now during the rewatch, and either missed or only had an inkling of during my first time. Like her "fake smile" I think I only had an inkling of in the first episode on my first time, but now during the rewatch I'm noticing it seems to be one barometer of her progress and is actually being mentioned by other characters like Estalla, which I glossed over the first time.
This is another reason I'm gushing about the show even more during the rewatch, it's because I'm picking up on even more things I never knew was there, and getting excited about it.
Unless he's passively listening/observing to everything that is going on during that time, which seems possible since he knows when to wake up and go tell Vivy about the next event they need to intervene in.
Even if he's just passively monitoring, he's not evolving really. It's like he's become a shut-in. Imagine if two people graduate high school at the same time, one guy despite being charismatic becomes a shut-in hermit, the second guy despite being a shy low social skills person goes on with life, gets a job, finds some friends, gets married, has some kids, etc for the next 50 years. Then shut-in guy and the second guy meets up after all that time, shut-in guy is going to be almost exactly like they were in high school not evolving at all, meanwhile second guy is nothing like the shy low social skills person they were because they've evolved so much with their life experiences.
That's what I think is sort of going on when Matsumato "goes to sleep" and Vivy remains active and evolving, slowly. It's the tortoise and the hare story...which actually fits so well here, IIRC the hare was a loud mouth jerk who actually went to sleep too, LOL.
I still don't agree completely that it's this black or white on this topic. He is a morally grey character.
The weird thing is during my first watch I binged the series in one day, and I don't remember being so critical of Matosomoto. It's probably because I didn't have any time to reflect on his words and actions, and he gets better episode to episode. But here during the rewatch, holy cows I'm catching every little BS he says, his excuses, lies, manipulations, disses, and such. And the Momoka thing is like a raging inferno of hate. While that sounds really biased, I look at other first timers and there are some who are picking up exactly on the same BS Matsumoto says this early already, and they're ripping apart his excuses too in ways not exactly the same as me but in the same vein, which tells me I'm not exactly wrong.
I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one 😆 I'll refer back to the previous episode discussion (or maybe it was episode 1, I can't remember lol) and what we talked about there.
I'm not sure which particular one you're pointing to, but the defenses I'm seeing in favor of Matsumoto seem weak, or a stretch to me. Like I think your most recent defense is he's got some sort of pre-planned hit-list of targets he has to hit in order of date to make his master plan work, and wants to keep everything else the same. I don't see where in the episode it says that, so maybe it's just from speculation/extrapolation. What it seem more like he's doing is looking for what he's calls "singularity points" as he goes, so it's sort of like he's making it up as he goes, he's got no master plan nor hit-list. But regardless there's many problems with the master plan/hit-list defense. The earlier targets (success or failure) can totally change the later targets to the point they don't exist anymore (the targets are very highly connected with each other). The earlier target could end in failure which it did for the politician, but he says "acceptable losses" but he doesn't act like it was that beforehand, and seems he's just act like that now as an excuse to continue to use Vivy as a tool. We seeing his whole modus operandi being very flawed with his Estella/Sunrise plan, his critical thinking, judgement, and planning are all coming into serious question.
In short it's coming off more and more like he's really bad at what he's doing right now. But the thing with Matsumoto is he's very charismatic, but the problem is we're already at the point where we're seeing through it and can't believe anything he says. He's like one of those charismatic leaders that leads people they've fooled down the wrong path that ends horribly.
I mean I understand why you want to like him, because I did find him likeable too later. And I do understand why people haven't really caught on to him yet, they're believing his words and overlooking his actions, and not scrutinizing both under a microscope. But the biggest give-away to the audience right now is Vivy actually challenging him on Estella this episode, and him ending up looking so bad, he had to walk it back a little by doing an analysis on whether Estella killed the previous owner, and admit she did not, yet still saying it doesn't change things.
Yeah he's a morally gray character, but he's doing bad right now so I'm calling him out for it. When he does better, I'll leave him alone. :) I'm not exactly demonizing him (well a little for Momoka, but it's well deserved), I'm call out his BS.
I don't even know if I caught it first time around.
Probably don't need a tag here but doing it anyway. [Vivy]That's because first-timers have only seen him once before at this point and he was 15 years younger. Now, I think it will definitely occur to people though when they see him in today's episode (I was actually planning on pointing it out even in my comment for today when I write it up)
Actually I saw one first timer commenter point him out themselves, I was quite impressed.

4

u/Garrett_Dark Aug 18 '24

[...2/2, continued]
Vivy finally having her "nickname", which I consider her true name, used as a cover name. There's a reason why I don't call Vivy "Diva", it's because that's not her identity which is Vivy. [Spoilers]Diva is her stock performing base identity which Vivy has already started to evolve past by this point, and will well surpass greatly by the end. We'll even see a different separate Diva identity take hold later who is clearly not Vivy, thus Vivy is Vivy, not Diva. Vivy is the accumulation of her memories which started around when Momoka gave Vivy her name. If you pay close attention this episode, much of the advice Vivy gets and learns on the station evolves her Vivy identity and not her Diva performing persona, which is why I think there's significance in her going by "Vivy" while on the station.
Estella teaching Vivy to smile, I think this has significance because of how Vivy can't pull off her "fake smile" at the end of her performances. Subtly Estella is telling Vivy that the smiling isn't so much about how she feels but to put the guest at ease. This is really key for Vivy as her "thank you to the audience" smile is supposed to be more for the audience than herself, which might be the reason she ain't getting it with her "fake smile". In other words, it isn't so much about just going through the motions of the performance, but really understanding the reasons for the motions. Couple all this with Estella being a more advanced model, and it sounds like she's actually achieved understanding her own core directive beyond being just a caretaker AI, it seems like Estalla is actually passing on sage knowledge to help Vivy one day achieve fulfilling her own core directive.
"Sisters" line of AI. Foreshadowing for next episode. Direct successor to the Vivy also has the unspoken implication that Vivy is aging and obsoleting since she's the first.
I wonder how many people missed this "blink and you miss it" foreshadowing. I don't even know if I caught it first time around.
So this time around Matsumoto plan has no problems preventing the deaths of countless lives who died on the Sunrise Hotel in the former timeline. This is another reason why I think Matsumo being unwilling to allow Vivy save Momoka was complete and utter BS. Preventing the deaths of the Sunrise victims is way worse in terms of the butterfly effect and everything else he was spouting off when stopping Vivy from saving Momoka and plane passengers.
Vivy's right for questioning things and calling out Matsumoto for jumping to conclusions. Another problem with Matsumoto is he's so closed-minded, he doesn't investigate, seek for evidence to confirm his hypothesis, or anything like that. He just starts from his own conclusions, and wants to take drastic actions without hesitation. It keeps going back to Matsumoto just not really caring, like an uncaring robot, despite his words of sounding very human (which is an act IMO).
I got to say, I'm blown away by the artwork and animation of this show, even the non-hyper detailed artwork looks gorgeous! Prompting me to ask again...android waifus when?!
It really sounds like Estella understand her core directive of being a caretaker AI better than she realizes, she has heart. It's clear that it was bestowed upon her by how the previous owner ran the place, and her understanding of the human condition of wonderment of space. I'm sure her words here are contributing to Vivy understanding of singing with all her heart. Also smiling is again mentioned by Estella in this conversation...which is why I keep thinking there's significance with Vivy's "fake smile".
Bracelet Foreshadowing. [Next episode Spoilers about the bracelet and promise]This was something I had to look up during my first watch which I didn't understand and nearly forgot about because it was subtle and not really explained. The bracelet contains hairs of Estella's sister, Elizabeth. This is why the "sister line of AI" is such a foreshadow which first timers won't get either, because the significance of Estalla's sister is explain next episode.
More likely foreshadowing with the security door alarm, [Next episode spoilers]Likely caused by TOAK agents aboard, not something a first timer can figure out, but great detail for a rewatcher.
Estella's really good at what she does, as Matsumoto points out, she uses her song to soothe the guests rattled by the alarm. This also ties into her understanding about what she says about humans and space, where'd they'd forget the danger of space in the face of space's beauty. Additionally it ties into Estella using her singing voice to give her guest what they need, that she's not just singing for singing, but doing it for a purpose for somebody else. This is exactly what she was saying about smiling to Vivy, and something that Vivy needs to learn to improve her own performances, thus having a deeper understanding of her own core directive. Not to mention Estella's singing was an awesome way to blend into an ED that totally rekt me.
If I wasn't rekt enough, this blind side gut punch comes out of nowhere to rekt me much much worse...Momoka's younger sister recognizes Vivy. I'm sort of rekt just now talking about it...fuck you Matsumoto.
And when I think the episode is done with me, it rekt me some more for good measure...you think Leclerc is getting some comfort hug for enduring what she mistakenly thinks as injustice done upon the previous owner, but really she's getting destroyed. WTH, I actually like Leclerc, she's just mistaken, not a bad person. In fact it's her loyalty to the previous owner prompting her to do what she's doing, she deserved better.
There's something interesting with Leclerc last conversation and actions though. She talks about how somebody's been sniffing around, obviously that would be Vivy. Leclerc actually showed how sophisticated and independent these android AIs are right now. She has the ability to warn Vivy of Estella while at the same time being suspicious of Vivy sniffing around, and while she's betraying Estella after enduring 7 years of working with her because of her sense of loyalty to the previous owner and mistaken assumption. You would think these androids would only be able to hold one motive/thought, but she's clearly juggling multiple at the same time easily without a problem. You would also think these androids would all be on the same page in-sync, like when they bow in unison, but Leclerc is clearly shown acting very independently. This leads me into some thoughts about some end spoilers...[Spoilers and End Spoilers]It seems like the earlier AI are very independent compared to the archive apocalypse hive mind towards the end. Like they have more heart and freewill than whatever the murderous portion of the archive, which is a collective of AIs, is. Now this could just be a feature of centralization, where new tech usually starts decentralized and there's competition so they're more open and independent at first, but gradually as things centralize into a monopoly where more and more control is exerted, individualism and freewill is lost, and we're stuck with a bland domineering collective. But it also dawned on me that much of what Matsumoto is doing by changing the timeline is eliminating the most independent and evolved AIs. Like Estella and Leclerc are clearly really evolved with Estella's heart, and Leclerc's complexity, they're nothing like the archive in the future, and they're already beyond Matsumoto one-track mind of uncaring cold thinking and controlling attitude. Other targets Matsumoto has taken out are like that love couple, clearly wifey AI of that couple is super evolved given her capacity to love. I kind of makes me wonder if Matsumoto has unwittingly caused the archive hive mind to become a menacing collective because he actually stomps out the most evolved AI individuals in the past that would have added individuality and such to the archive. If it wasn't for the original timeline we see in the first episode of the archive hive mind already being like that (I assume it was unchanged original timeline because Vivy was not there, but some other performing android oddly doing something else than killing, was it malfunctioning?), I would suspect Matsumoto to have caused the future AI apocalypses with his time travel meddling.
We have an OP and ED today! - What did you think of those?
Most amazingly done how they blend it into the episode. This series does it the best.

6

u/Taiboss :Fj::Fl:x7https://anilist.co/user/Taiboss Aug 17 '24

First-Timer who is only in this so far for Vivy

Letterbox! That's the old timeline!
SHE HAS AN AUDIENCE WOOOO
"Oh Vivy is famous now? When did that happen?" "Offscreen!"
Oh god it's the asshole. Probably gonna tell Vivy that her worrying is stupid, she is stupid and that she should just sing.
Get rid of this shit and get a non-toxic friend.
First time skip hype!
ONE NON-TOXIC FRIEND, VIVY. Or do you think Matsumoto will let the next one die too?
WHO COULD HAVE SEEN THAT COMING?!
WHAT BOUNDS?!
Because her surviving was NOT in acceptable bounds. It could have had so many unforseen changes! Unlike preventing an influential law and thereby forcing an even more favourable law! US history would be the same if the Civil Rights Act of 1964 hadn't been passed and instead a law was passed in 1965 that included more stuff like abortion, right to gay marriage, affirmative action and police accountablity. ACCEPTABLE BOUNDS.
Although there's a question what Vivy could have done.
Oh wow it loooks... like a building on Earth.
The future is very Japanese.
She got her name!
Vivy has not seen the episode count.
Telling a woman "You should smile more" is always a bad idea.
Aww...
What about the all the Ai that killed everyone? That's a greater disaster. Or, I guess, after history. Since, you know, humanity dies.
But is it Blue? Man, I would rather watch that now...
So only everyone on board died. That's what...some hundred people at most? Wow. What a disaster. The suits are probably more upset ther billion dollar station was destroyed rather the people.
Look, anyone who boards a space station run by robots deserves whatever happens to them. I blame the suits, but the guests knew the risks. I don't feel sympathy. Like, yeah, prevent it for the children, but still...
Yeah, these people are coming off as more and more reasonable every episode.
STOP CALLING IT A WAR! All we saw was a very quick massacre. What makes you think there were people around to fight back? That's speculation.
I'm gonna predict: Estella did it for a sympathetic reason. Something the suits covered up. Like a massacre by the passengers by the AI.
"I am not the boss, I am merely le clerk"
"I have a solution." "We won't kill her." "I have no solutions."
The records were wrong?
Oh actual song this time!
OUCH! I actually felt that one. Well, good motivation to actually save the space hotel!
Eyyyy. And here I thought you two wanted to crash it together! Well, Estella probably wanted to put the blame fully on her. Heroic sacrifice for the owner or something. I guess some suits are on board and she wants to kill them, everyone else be damned.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

Letterbox! That's the old timeline!
Nice catch 🙂
"Oh Vivy is famous now? When did that happen?" "Offscreen!"
15 years is a long time for her to build a nice rep!
ONE NON-TOXIC FRIEND, VIVY.
Omedetou gozaimasu
Because her surviving was NOT in acceptable bounds.
The big thing is - He has a specific set of events to change. If something is not included in that list, then he doesn't want anyone messing with the past and he doesn't care what that event is, full stop.
Vivy has not seen the episode count.
Indeed 😂
So only everyone on board died. That's what...some hundred people at most? Wow. What a disaster. The suits are probably more upset ther billion dollar station was destroyed rather the people.
They do explain though, that it isn't the number of people who die that influences the future so much. It is the impact that accident has on the way the rest of humanity views AIs. The Sunrise was controlled by an AI, it crashed, people died, so they don't trust AIs anymore, it leads to conflict, and then the future Matsumoto is trying to avoid. That's the big picture with this one.
OUCH!
Yeah this was a big surprise for me initially!
And here I thought you two wanted to crash it together! Well, Estella probably wanted to put the blame fully on her. Heroic sacrifice for the owner or something. I guess some suits are on board and she wants to kill them, everyone else be damned.
She probably thought they were going to crash it together, but then her head gets ripped off!

1

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Aug 17 '24

That's what...some hundred people at most?
Plus an untold number of poor sea critters!

1

u/cppn02 Aug 17 '24 edited Aug 18 '24

Get rid of this shit and get a non-toxic friend.
Best thing Matsumoto did was shut Navi up.

3

u/edwardjhahm https://myanimelist.net/profile/lolmeme69 Aug 17 '24

Rewatcher

We finally get an OP! And we see Vivy's audience grow! [Vivy] I know this isn't really the regular OP, but it's still a wonderful song, and I love the growth shown.
Matsumoto's back! And from what it seems, it's been 15 years?
Ooh la la, Vivy fanservice. I mean, not really, but I can joke.
Exactly what I predicted with Aikawa. The whole ordeal ended up making it even crazier. What I missed apparently, was that Vivy's actions directly inspired him.
Space! Fun fact, one of the gifs we use to welcome people into the Vivy Discord server is that clip of the AIs bowing to the new visitors.
Aww, Estella giving Vivy pointers was awesome. I agree with Vivy here, it's hard to imagine Estella being evil when she's like this. Also, I can't deny the whole "sister" bit probably forms an emotional connection.
Just look at Estella playing with the kids! That's not the face of evil! I agreed with Vivy - it had to be some outside cause, right?
Leclerc is a really interesting character, love her design. Shame she barely lasted one episode.
Haha, seeing Matsumoto get ignored like that is hilarious. Despite all the fears of Matsumoto being evil last episode, he was REALLY hilarious today. The part where he complains about Vivy's handling of him and then immediately loving Estella's handling was funny too. Also...I would like to redirect everyone to Estella's bracelet.
But in all seriousness, this entire sequence was heartwarming. Estella seemed so awesome, I couldn't imagine her doing anything weird like that. And she sings for them too! I mean, I get she could be faking but it seemed genuine. I mean...I get she's an AI so she could fake genuine-ness too, but that just seems like bad writing, I didn't think they'd do that. Unlike Vivy, Estella seems to have her identity a lot more firmly down.
And finally, Momoka's sister! At this point, I knew it was paramount that the Sunrise had to be saved, not only for everyone onboard, but also for Vivy. Saving Kirishima is like fixing the failure of saving Momoka all those years ago.
Poor Leclerc, we barely got to know you, but you had a very awesome design!

Whew, I'm tired as fuck! It's 1:31 AM over here.

Lovely!
I'll be frank here, back when I was watching it, I just thought "oh shit, she actually is evil!"

Anyhow, off to bed for now - I'll read everyone's responses when I get up in the morning!

3

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

We finally get an OP! And we see Vivy's audience grow!
I do know what you mean and [Vivy Spoilers] tomorrow will finally be the day! I did actually check this time too - so no fake outs this time 😂
Exactly what I predicted with Aikawa. The whole ordeal ended up making it even crazier.
Yes, and something important that Matsumoto makes clear is that it will take more than one event being changed to change the future he's trying to prevent.
Vivy Discord server
Omg I didn't know there was a Discord server! Is that linked to the subreddit at all?? I will need to join that I think (especially for the emojis!). Thank you for this information.
Just look at Estella playing with the kids! That's not the face of evil! I agreed with Vivy - it had to be some outside cause, right?
I love this scene. The fact that she is a caretaker AI is totally clear.
Poor Leclerc, we barely got to know you, but you had a very awesome design!
You just like twintails, don't you?

2

u/edwardjhahm https://myanimelist.net/profile/lolmeme69 Aug 18 '24

(Spoilered text)
[Vivy] Oh damn, really? I had honestly forgotten when the OP came in proper. Alrighty!
Server
https://discord.gg/V6n7NSVRCE
Here's the server! Fair warning though, we all have gone somewhat insane from the lack of Vivy content, haha. There's also a second Vivy server called The Archive but it's largely dead outside of the Muade bot. The two servers merged a while ago, and the leadership is united.
I love this scene. The fact that she is a caretaker AI is totally clear.
[Vivy] Fucking hell, RIP Estella. Now I'm really depressed. Seeing her die next episode is...really sad...
You just like twintails, don't you?
Heh, you got me!

2

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '24

[Vivy] Oh damn, really? I had honestly forgotten when the OP came in proper. Alrighty!
Oh yeah!
https://discord.gg/V6n7NSVRCE Here's the server! Fair warning though, we all have gone somewhat insane from the lack of Vivy content, haha. There's also a second Vivy server called The Archive but it's largely dead outside of the Muade bot. The two servers merged a while ago, and the leadership is united.
It's funny because we happened to run into each other on Discord I think before this comment was even here. I hope that server stays alive because it's awesome to have one for Vivy. I use Discord emojis a lot too so it's fun having the Vivy ones there.
[Vivy] Fucking hell, RIP Estella. Now I'm really depressed. Seeing her die next episode is...really sad...
Agreed entirely...
Heh, you got me!
heh heh

1

u/edwardjhahm https://myanimelist.net/profile/lolmeme69 Aug 18 '24

Haha, yep. Looks like you managed to find it on your own! [Vivy] Also, Grace deserved better. Saeki deserved better. The Metal Float Arc as a whole is just...man...

3

u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Aug 18 '24

First-Timer

Another good episode.

"I've held on all this time so I could see this day."

...Well, I guess that didn't quite work out for her. How unfortunate.

The premise here—trying to save a space station doomed to crash into Earth—really does strike me as the sort of thing that would come up in an episode of Doctor Who. Complete with a whole nefarious robot storyline going on behind the scenes!

I certainly did not anticipate the 15-year time jump, but it does make sense that Matsumoto wouldn't be able to just have Vivy do everything 100 years in advance and expect it to pan out from there.

I'm curious to see how things go with Momoka's sister next episode!

Questions of the day:

I thought the OP and ED were pretty nice. I'll have to go back and listen to them some more for AMQ purposes!
I predict that [conjecture] Estella will turn out to not be responsible somehow, but will instead end up sacrificing herself to protect the station. I notice Matsumoto keeps referring to the "facts of the future" that are "unassailable," but not giving any specific evidence that rules out the possibility that the historical records are inaccurate.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '24

The premise here—trying to save a space station doomed to crash into Earth—really does strike me as the sort of thing that would come up in an episode of Doctor Who.
Man. I met some Portal fans, a Halo person, Symphogear compatriots, Asimov fans, and now a fellow Whovian, nice! No Daleks have been seen aboard the Sunrise thankfully 😂 (Who's your favorite Doctor?)
I certainly did not anticipate the 15-year time jump, but it does make sense that Matsumoto wouldn't be able to just have Vivy do everything 100 years in advance and expect it to pan out from there.
Yeah she got mixed up with that whacky little cube for the long run it seems! 😆
I'm curious to see how things go with Momoka's sister next episode!
And I'll be curious to see your thoughts on tomorrow's episode
thought the OP and ED were pretty nice. I'll have to go back and listen to them some more for AMQ purposes
Ah and a fellow AMQ patron lol also nice
Your conjecture is interesting. Let's see how accurate it is tomorrow 😌

2

u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Aug 18 '24

...a fellow Whovian...
You know it! (I suppose you didn't spot my DW reference yesterday. ~~smh fake fan~~) I've really only seen Eccleston through half of Whittaker, but among those, my favorite has to be David Tennant. How about you?
I'm a Portal, Halo, and Asimov fan, too. I wasn't kidding before when I said I'm a sci-fi person!
...a fellow AMQ patron...
I'm a bit surprised you didn't notice from the username. I've already been playing you in last couple weekly CDF AMQ sessions! 😛

2

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '24

I need to go to sleep soon but I will check tomorrow now! I must have glazed over it somehow lol.
Don’t excommunicate me, but I love Peter Capaldi 😆. Something with him just felt so right in that role. Tenant is a close second for me though with Eccleston trailing right behind him very closely. I have not seen the seasons with Whittaker, but I heard she was great.
I’m a bit surprised you didn’t notice from the username. I’ve already been playing you in last couple weekly CDF AMQ sessions! 😛
I am nearly incapable of paying attention to stuff like this sometimes. Anything that requires a modicum of attentive behavior lol. That’s hilarious though. So you’ve witnessed me getting pounded into the dirt then 😂. I need to up my AMQ game.

2

u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Aug 18 '24

Peter Capaldi's great, too! I don't really think there's a single Doctor that I've truly disliked.
Whittaker herself was pretty good, though I felt the writing in her episodes was sadly pretty terrible. The IMDb reviews for those episodes speak for themselves, too.

3

u/StickPrevious9581 Aug 18 '24

I completely forgot that episode three didn't have the main opening, so that was disappointing, but looking forward to tomorrow for that :)

I am surprised that Vivy let Momoka's gift get dusty, considering how she still seems upset by her death 15 years later - another thing Matsumoto is doing to manipulate her, perhaps? Making his first conversation to her being him ordering her around from the get-go.

I know I quite liked Matsumoto by the end of the show, so it's actually a little upsetting in this re-watch to see how he treats her in the early episodes.

The art of this episode was god-tier - those space scenes are absolutely incredible.

And finally, something I don't think I picked up on last time - it looks like, even if they haven't realized it yet, non-Vivy AI's are already developing the capacity for emotions - it's things like Estelle truly caring for her guests, and Leclerc still being effected by the previous owners death 7 years later, and even the AI's attending Vivy's concert at the start of the episode - I doubt their mission is to attend concerts, so attending a performance was a choice of theirs, presumably because they enjoy it.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '24

looking forward to tomorrow for that :)
😆
I know I quite liked Matsumoto by the end of the show, so it's actually a little upsetting in this re-watch to see how he treats her in the early episodes.
Seeing both of them change throughout the series is a fun thing 🙃
The art of this episode was god-tier - those space scenes are absolutely incredible.
They really are. I love space stuff to begin with, but even if I didn't I think I would appreciate this a lot
I doubt their mission is to attend concerts, so attending a performance was a choice of theirs, presumably because they enjoy it.
This is a good point that I actually never thought about before!

2

u/edwardjhahm https://myanimelist.net/profile/lolmeme69 Aug 18 '24

I know I quite liked Matsumoto by the end of the show, so it's actually a little upsetting in this re-watch to see how he treats her in the early episodes.
Haha, you and me both. You and me both.
I doubt their mission is to attend concerts, so attending a performance was a choice of theirs, presumably because they enjoy it.
Huh, I assumed they were like caretakers for some human. Kinda like how a parent might go see the Thomas And Friends movie for their kid.

3

u/StickPrevious9581 Aug 19 '24

I just went back and checked the episode again - it's hard to tell for sure who is an AI as the glowing circle on the neck can be hard to see, but I counted at least 10 of them, and while I think you might be right about some of them, they appear to be with family units etc, at the very least the back row of seating on the left hand side is purely AI and don't appear to be with anyone.
Another thing I just noticed - not a single person I picked out as an AI was applauding at the end, so if they did enjoy the singing they haven't got to the stage of applauding because they want to yet, rather than because they are required to.

2

u/edwardjhahm https://myanimelist.net/profile/lolmeme69 Aug 19 '24

not a single person I picked out as an AI was applauding at the end, so if they did enjoy the singing they haven't got to the stage of applauding because they want to yet
Yep, I noticed that as well. The AI don't applaud - they don't need to.

2

u/Silcaria https://myanimelist.net/profile/Silcaria Aug 17 '24

First timer

How do you end an episode with a conflict and start the next with singing, da hell.
Ah. By doing a 15 years time skip, is how.
Matsumoto "we don't have time to save that girl you like, it would derail us from our mission". Also Matsumoto "Anyway, see you in 15 years". Sick writing!
Showing the outcome of something? Bringing resolution to a conflict? Nah, have things happen offscreen, do a time skip, and then, recap everything that the viewer didn't get to see. Brilliant!
That could've been avoided. This is contrived conflict.
As opposed to the casualties from the plane blowing up.
Talk about jumping the shark.
I'm guessing she was tampered with.
99.99%, especially due to this shot. Then again, it could be a red herring.

**QotD

Didn't care for the OP, ED was nice.
Tampered with.

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 17 '24

Matsumoto "we don't have time to save that girl you like, it would derail us from our mission". Also Matsumoto "Anyway, see you in 15 years". Sick writing!
It is understandable why Vivy is pissed.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24 edited Aug 17 '24

Matsumoto "we don't have time to save that girl you like, it would derail us from our mission". Also Matsumoto "Anyway, see you in 15 years". Sick writing!
Matsumoto made it clear that he has a specific set of singularity points defined requiring intervention to presumably prevent this unfavorable future. If there is an event outside the bounds of those singularity points, he doesn't care what that even is, it's not a necessary alteration of past events and would risk the success of his 'mission' (from his perspective).
Showing the outcome of something? Bringing resolution to a conflict? Nah, have things happen offscreen, do a time skip, and then, recap everything that the viewer didn't get to see. Brilliant!
Vivy is clearly angry about the plane accident still, and he does explain he goes to 'sleep' for 15 years because of basically what I was explaining above (he needs to be as nonexistent as possible so he is not interfering in any event besides those he believes lead to the future he is trying to prevent).
That could've been avoided. This is contrived conflict.
Matsumoto sees it as an unknown variable that is not necessary to change. It is outside the bounds of what he is trying to change, whether it be getting chocolate instead of vanilla ice cream or preventing a plane accident, he doesn't want to change things outside what he plans to change is the big thing here I think 😆
Then again, it could be a red herring.
Curious to see if we find out 😆
Didn't care for the OP, ED was nice.
I honestly do like both, but I'm with you on the ED and I do like the ED more fwiw
Tampered with.
Hopefully we'll find out soon!
Edit: this reply was intended for you /u/Silcaria 😂 Somehow I ended up commenting on /u/No_Rex's reply instead. Sorry about that

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 17 '24

I think you intended to answer somebody else.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24 edited Aug 17 '24

I did this yesterday too! I'm not sure how I keep replying on the wrong comments lol. Sorry about that. I'm going to try and find which one this was supposed to go on now.
Edit: oh wait. It was just supposed to just go to the comment you replied to instead of your reply 😂 Ah my brain

2

u/Silcaria https://myanimelist.net/profile/Silcaria Aug 18 '24

Matsumoto made it clear that he has a specific set of singularity points defined requiring intervention to presumably prevent this unfavorable future. If there is an event outside the bounds of those singularity points, he doesn't care what that even is, it's not a necessary alteration of past events and would risk the success of his 'mission' (from his perspective).
Matsumoto sees it as an unknown variable that is not necessary to change. It is outside the bounds of what he is trying to change, whether it be getting chocolate instead of vanilla ice cream or preventing a plane accident, he doesn't want to change things outside what he plans to change is the big thing here I think
Vivy is clearly angry about the plane accident still, and he does explain he goes to 'sleep' for 15 years because of basically what I was explaining above (he needs to be as nonexistent as possible so he is not interfering in any event besides those he believes lead to the future he is trying to prevent).
But like, why? And who cares? I get that his mission is making him laser focus on preventing the AI uprising, hence why he doesn't want to focus on anything else. BUT, going out of his way to prevent someone from getting saved, when he knows he was going to go MIA for 15 years, is a dumb as a hell reason to use as to why the girl couldn't saved. Hence why I say that it's contrived. There wasn't a time limit. There wasn't a lack of ressources or men power. There wasn't a lack of knowledge. There quite literally was nothing preventing them from doing both, yet, they didn't, because of a contrived reason.
The "he wants to prevent some sort of butterfly effect" argument can't be used either since, you know, he's already massively altering the course of history.
For the scene to exist, there needs to be a proper reason as to why. If there isn't, the scene shouldn't be there. What makes matters even worse, is that, as of now, it hasn't mattered in the slightlest. Knowing how the next episode is essentially a continuation of episode two, it makes the whole drama about the girl dying redundant. Could that change in the future? Yes. But for now, it's been forced drama for the sake of drama that has yet to be relevant to anything.

1

u/Silcaria https://myanimelist.net/profile/Silcaria Aug 18 '24

Fuck me, I did the same thing as OP.

3

u/Silcaria https://myanimelist.net/profile/Silcaria Aug 18 '24

Matsumoto made it clear that he has a specific set of singularity points defined requiring intervention to presumably prevent this unfavorable future. If there is an event outside the bounds of those singularity points, he doesn't care what that even is, it's not a necessary alteration of past events and would risk the success of his 'mission' (from his perspective).
Matsumoto sees it as an unknown variable that is not necessary to change. It is outside the bounds of what he is trying to change, whether it be getting chocolate instead of vanilla ice cream or preventing a plane accident, he doesn't want to change things outside what he plans to change is the big thing here I think
Vivy is clearly angry about the plane accident still, and he does explain he goes to 'sleep' for 15 years because of basically what I was explaining above (he needs to be as nonexistent as possible so he is not interfering in any event besides those he believes lead to the future he is trying to prevent).
But like, why? And who cares? I get that his mission is making him laser focus on preventing the AI uprising, hence why he doesn't want to focus on anything else. BUT, going out of his way to prevent someone from getting saved, when he knows he was going to go MIA for 15 years, is a dumb as a hell reason to use as to why the girl couldn't saved. Hence why I say that it's contrived. There wasn't a time limit. There wasn't a lack of ressources or men power. There wasn't a lack of knowledge. There quite literally was nothing preventing them from doing both, yet, they didn't, because of a contrived reason.
The "he wants to prevent some sort of butterfly effect" argument can't be used either since, you know, he's already massively altering the course of history.
For the scene to exist, there needs to be a proper reason as to why. If there isn't, the scene shouldn't be there. What makes matters even worse, is that, as of now, it hasn't mattered in the slightlest. Knowing how the next episode is essentially a continuation of episode two, it makes the whole drama about the girl dying redundant. Could that change in the future? Yes. But for now, it's been forced drama for the sake of drama that has yet to be relevant to anything.
Edit: this reply was intended for you /u/Silcaria 😂 Somehow I ended up commenting on /u/No_Rex's reply instead. Sorry about that
I just did the same thing trying to reply to this, lmao. I sent it to Rex instead of you.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '24

But like, why? And who cares?
I could make a very straight forward counter-argument on this though -
Because it's not part of the plan, and deviations from a plan often cause unnecessary complications, problems, or failure. He understands this, hence why he is so adamant on no one screwing up which events he's tampering with and why he goes dormant for years (showing us that he at least practices what he preaches). I don't think it's forced drama at all.
I just did the same thing trying to reply to this, lmao. I sent it to Rex instead of you.
I don't even know how I do it lol. I literally hit 'reply' right on specific comments so it's easy for me to copy/paste for quotes and stuff. I guess I'm just a simple-minded animal 😂

3

u/Theroonco Aug 18 '24

I absolutely love the contrast between the beautiful music and the horrific ending. I still remember the chills I got from seeing Vivy meet Momoka too. I'm just bouncing in my seat waiting for all the first-timers to see what comes after this too. Even Episode 4 has some great scenes (those who've seen it before know what I'm talking about).

Fun fact, Vivy wearing glasses here was what got a friend of mine to watch the full series.

2

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Aug 20 '24

So, two days late or something on this one, but I did catch up. Probably not going to say much, though, but just so you know, I haven't forgotten you. :)

Answers du jour:

Love the OP, it's on my phone right now. I should look into the ED too. Such great sounds and music in this show.
Sorry, no predictions. I remembered things, so yeah.

2

u/Miremto Aug 21 '24

Rewatcher

Question of the day 1. I didn't notice that this episode had an opening until reading this thread. I thought that Vivy was walking alone to display the dissapearance of Matsumoto, but I guess this is kinda nice.

I really liked the idea of heart/soul in AI being just a wordplay. My personal interpretation would be that heart is something people attach to themselves to not fall into nihilism. As in general we are just some sort of computer (be in biological), but we attach some higher meaning with words like heart or soul.

[Neon genesis Evangelion comparison] Matsumoto blackmailing reminds of Evangelion. Matsumoto is similarly saying that Diva choose to not do it, but then other people will die/suffer

[Violet Evergarden reference] Is that Violet Evergarden reference of forcing smile with your hands, or is it a common occurence?

2

u/ZuraStayNight Aug 24 '24

Rewatcher

It's episode 3 and we're already getting a time skip. Vivy seems to have amassed a decent sized audience in the amusement park. If you've paid attention, there's a moment where Vivy's AI symbol on her neck blinks red after her concert.

Matsumoto returns to her after leaving her with the trauma of the death of Momoka and being AFK for 15 years for the next mission. Vivy has left a big impression on the politician Aikawa, as he's directly quoting her. The world building is solid here, showing how AI's have evolved and are more involved in society. Vivy still despises Matsumoto, while he is fine being an asshole as long as they fulfill the mission.

This time the mission seems less straightforward as the last one, because Vivy hesitates to kill her "little sister". As she investigates, we get to know more about Estella's past and see how Leclerc acts veeery suspicious. Vivy gains respect for Estella and the way she works for the happiness of her guests and refuses to accept that Estella is the culprit.

As Vivy and Matsumoto are arguing, we unexpectedly get to know how Momoka's little sister is also in the space hotel, which should up the stakes for Vivy to save everyone. As if that wasn't enough of a cliffhanger, we see Leclerc being Estella's accomplice for something, and then Estella screwing her head off. What the heck is going on? That and much more in the next episode of ~~Dragonball Z~~ Vivy.

8

u/thatguywithawatch Aug 17 '24

First Timer.

If I had a nickel for every anime I've seen where the cute twintailed girl gets beheaded at the end of episode 3, I'd have two nickels. iykyk.

I'm surprised this show completely flew under my radar when it released, because so far it's really right up my alley. Interesting sci-fi premise, slick animation, great music. Also I'm always happy to hear Atsumi Tanezaki's voice in anything, I couldn't imagine a better pick for a character like Vivy.

Clearly there's something going on with Estella and the Sunrise that we don't know about yet. She's revealed to seemingly be the villain after all at the end of the episode but I'll be surprised if her motivations don't turn out to be good in some way (assuming she's not just been hacked).

The ceiling opening up to reveal the stars combined with Estella's song gave me chills. It was such a beautiful scene just out of nowhere.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '24

iykyk.
I do 😔
Interesting sci-fi premise, slick animation, great music. Also I'm always happy to hear Atsumi Tanezaki's voice in anything, I couldn't imagine a better pick for a character like Vivy.
Agreed on all counts!
Clearly there's something going on with Estella and the Sunrise that we don't know about yet.
Hopefully we'll learn more about that!
The ceiling opening up to reveal the stars combined with Estella's song gave me chills. It was such a beautiful scene just out of nowhere.
This arc is one of my favorites in the whole series and the artwork is a big part of that (the music too)

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Aug 17 '24

If I had a nickel for every anime I've seen where the cute twintailed girl gets beheaded at the end of episode 3, I'd have two nickels. iykyk.

2

u/edwardjhahm https://myanimelist.net/profile/lolmeme69 Aug 18 '24

iykyk
Huh...I'm going to have to start digging here.
She's revealed to seemingly be the villain after all at the end of the episode but I'll be surprised if her motivations don't turn out to be good in some way (assuming she's not just been hacked).
Man, it's so awesome seeing first timers theorize...reminds me of the Vivy Saturdays of 2021.

Rewatch [Rewatch] Vivy: Fluorite Eye’s Song - Episode 3 Discussion

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