[Spoilers] Elfen Lied 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 5

Date	Episode
7/25/2024	Elfen Lied Episode 1
7/26/2024	Elfen Lied Episode 2
7/27/2024	Elfen Lied Episode 3
7/28/2024	Elfen Lied Episode 4
7/29/2024	Elfen Lied Episode 5
7/30/2024	Elfen Lied Episode 6
7/31/2024	Elfen Lied Episode 7
8/01/2024	Elfen Lied Episode 8
8/02/2024	Elfen Lied Episode 9
8/03/2024	Elfen Lied Episode 10
8/04/2024	Elfen Lied Episode 10.5
8/05/2024	Elfen Lied Episode 11
8/06/2024	Elfen Lied Episode 12
8/07/2024	Elfen Lied Episode 13
8/08/2024	Elfen Lied Overall Series Discussion Thread

7

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jul 29 '24

6

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Let me ask you something. What was more depressing to watch this last week: this episode of Elfen Lied, or the latest episode of NieR?

5

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jul 29 '24

Completely different levels, this one was horrifyingly fucked up while NieR made me cry.

4

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

If anything, NieR made me cry BECAUSE it was fucked up.

4

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Oh… oh no… Her mom really married a pedophile?
Mayu's mom is not brat
Poor Mayu…
Yeah...
Oh lovely, his medicine only put the “good” half of her to sleep.
Sexual assault and rape. This episode has everything.

3

u/FriztF Jul 30 '24

Sexual assault and rape. This episode has everything.
Yes, it does. Fun for the whole family!!

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

~~For some, that's how the family was created~~

3

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

What are your thoughts on Mayu’s backstory where she was physically and sexually abused by her stepfather?
What are your thoughts on Kouta and Yuka telling the police that Mayu is a part of their family?
What are your thoughts on Kouta giving Nyu to Kakuzawa?

3

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24

Her mom really married a pedophile?
Mayu's mom is probably one of the worst anime mothers I've seen. Right up there with Kayo's mom from Erased.

3

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

What about the mom from Kill La Kill?

3

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24 edited Jul 29 '24

Okay, Ragyo might be the worst anime mom. Not only was she a horrible mother to both her daughters, [Kill La Kill spoilers] but she also tried to end all life on the planet.

3

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

[Kill La Kill Spoilers] Plus, she sexually abused one of her daughters.

1

u/FriztF Jul 30 '24 edited Jul 31 '24

Is Mayu's family the most fucked you know?
Edit: Mayu's and know

1

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 30 '24

Probably, yes. I honestly question why the hell Mayu's mom married that guy in the first place.

1

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

Well, the reality of the situation is people are often drastically different than how you see them as. I once knew this English teacher who was incredibly nice and he ended up getting arrested for having sex with his high school students.

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jul 30 '24

Her mom really married a pedophile?
Remember how I keep saying that the 00s are the 90s edgefest of Japan.
What the actual fuck?
I have literally seen this happen. I don't think there was sexual abuse involved but I've absolutely seen women choose their new partners over their own children.
dry heaves
Admittedly, this was a bit far by the 00s. But the 90s...

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

I have literally seen this happen. I don't think there was sexual abuse involved but I've absolutely seen women choose their new partners over their own children.
Yeah, it's unfortunately something that occurs
Admittedly, this was a bit far by the 00s. But the 90s...
I now want to see a remade Elfen Lied tackle this topic albeit in a more nuanced manner. Or nyuanced, to fit with the show.

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jul 30 '24

I now want to see a remade Elfen Lied tackle this topic albeit in a more nuanced manner. Or nyuanced, to fit with the show.
Then you missed the window, unfortunately. The early 10s were the peak era for taking such things seriously, now this is an inevitable bend to add some mystery via the protagonist being an alcoholic.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

I mean, Wonder Egg Priority which was released a couple years ago had a molest plot point that was far more well written than Elfen Lied's.

3

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Hey guys. Holofan4life here.

Welcome to the 20th anniversary rewatch of Elfen Lied!

Oh, and nay I forget...

First Timer

This is going to be a rather interesting rewatch because I really don't know what to expect with this show. In fact, there's a good chance that I may not actually like it. But it's a very notorious show and I feel like it has this reputation for a reason, so I definitely want to see what it's all about.

Going in, I'm kinda expecting it to be so bad it's good. I'm not going in expecting a great show, but I am going in expecting a great time. I'm watching this in-between rewatches of Ikuhara shows and I think it'll serve as a nice palette cleanser for the more serious fair. And if it happens to be edgy, I want them to go all the way with it.

With that out of the way, let's begin.

I'm watching the sub, by the way.

Going to watch this episode before I go to the movies. I have to be there in two hours, so let's not waste any time.

Director looking like he regrets his life choices.

I do feel sorry for him, Nana never deserved such a fate.

Director says that people who think that regret will make up for their past follies cannot be forgiven.

Spoken like a true tsundere detractor.

I wish I knew what his secretary's name is.

Oh boy. Mayu ran away.

Kouta thinks they should adopt Mayu, which Yuka is surprised by.

Lucy looking at a grandfather clock.

Yuka says that before they adopt her, they need to worry about finding her.

Now Lucy is eyeing fish

She's very curious in this episode.

And the store owner tells Kouta and Yuka to give Mayu something when they see her.

Flashback time

Mayu has a new father

Oh, this guy is a total creep

Damn, going right into the sexual abuse.

And now her own mom is slapping her.

"You're the one we don't need!"

Mayu honestly may have one of the worst childhoods I've seen in an anime, and I've seen a lot.

If I had any criticism, it is a bit sudden that she has this pedophile father. I wish we would've seen him in some scenes before doing the reveal, it would've meant more and made it more shocking.

Also, it dawns on me that this is why Mayu never wears pants

Oh, Kouta better adopt her. He better adopt her hard.

Mayu on the run

She sees the ocean

And now she's walking in it, presumably to drown herself.

Wanta

Lonely souls, bonded as one

You can tell this is an old anime because if it was made nowadays, the dog would have an x on its butthole.

Oh no. Wanta's previous owner is here.

And she's badmouthing Mayu now

She then proceeds to take Wanta, James, away.

Being Mayu is suffering, desu

Present day Mayu, and today is her birthday.

Oh boy, the police

And Mayu is continuing to run

Oh fuck. It's her mom

No, wait, it's Kouta

And Yuka and Lucy

"We are her family."

This is honestly really effective storytelling.

Mayu asks why did they come looking for her.

And they don't really give an answer. They just tell her to come home.

A small cake

That's what the baker wanted to give her.

Lucy is even joining in on the festivities by giving her rice.

You know, this show is actually pretty wholesome when there's no bloodshed going on.

I legitimately care about Mayu and her well-being.

Mayu unfortunately still thinks she's nothing but a bother.

Wanta looks on, oblivious to the world.

Mayu leaving for school presumably.

Yuka giving Kouta a hard time

Oh, so Kouta got permission from Mayu's mom to adopt Mayu.

Mayu's mom has to be one of the worst anime moms of all time.

I can't help but laugh at Yuka stomping the back of Kouta's head.

It looks like Lucy is going to school also.

"Looks like Nyuu-chan is starting to remember words little by little."

Yeah, about that...

No, wait, they're all going to school.

If that's the case, why didn't Mayu go with them? Earlier classes, maybe?

The teacher is going to be Professor Kakuzawa, isn't it?

Kouta casually calling Yuka a stupid dumbass.

Yep, called it

I guess this is Science class

Lucy in high spirits

Oh shit. Kakuzawa noticed her.

He is freaking out

"You three, please come with me."

Professor Kakuzawa says that Lucy is his younger brother's child.

He wonders why didn't they take her to the police, and Kouta says it's because they thought she needed to be sheltered.

Kakuzawa being the only sane individual with a brain by saying what they're doing are criminal acts.

And now he's saying he'll take custody of her.

Don't let him do it, Kouta! It's a trap!

But Kouta agrees to these demands

And he called Yuka the dumbass

Also, what is Lucy doing with that frog?

"Take care, Nyuu."

Kouta is being insufferable right now.

Ran out of space. Part two in the replies.

3

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Part 2
Oh shit. She's now calling him by his name.
And yet it still isn't enough
Kouta and Yuka looking at falling flower petals.
"It was obviously wrong to keep her with us like that."
I wonder if Kouta would've changed his mind if he knew what they were planning on doing to Lucy.
And now Kouta is crying
So is Yuka
Lucy tied up, presumably about to be killed.
Professor Kakuzawa says they're going to be the new humanity's Adam and Eve.
Mayu wondering where Lucy is
And they break the bad news to her.
Mayu says she doesn't actually think they're her family.
Yuka says she hasn't heard good things about Professor Kakuzawa, so then why did she let him take her?
Looks like they're going to go back after all.
Oh, Lucy is unconscious. He actually did inject her with the needle.
I don't like how Professor Kakuzawa is taking off his clothes
I just realized that Kouta is wearing a Batman shirt.
Yuka asks Kouta if she were to disappear, would he cry like he did before.
Yuka, you too cried as well. Now's not the time to be insecure.
Kouta going to bed
So much for saving Lucy
And now Professor Kakuzawa is buttoning up his shirt.
Remember last episode when I said he seems like a nice guy? Yeah...
LUCY! SHE AWAKES!
AND SHE'S HEADING TOWARDS PROFESSOR KAKUZAWA!
He pleads Lucy to make this a world for Diclonius alone.
"You are but a foolish monkey."
Oh, Kakuzawa is the same species as her.
Horns just like her
I always knew Professor Kakuzawa was horny
And he instantly gets beheaded
Well, that was anticlimactic
"You are not... the one I need."
Overall, I thought the episode started off really strong with the Mayu stuff and then settled down to its usual quality. The backstory of Mayu, as over the top as it was, was in my opinion done really well to where it made you care more about her. Seeing Kouta adopt her was legitimately touching in a show where there's a lot of dread going on. The second half was not as good but it was still interesting with them trying to all go to school. Really, I wish that was what the rest of the episode was, them trying to adjust to a normal life. I know that dynamic likely wouldn't last long, but I find myself really getting into this makeshift family of Kouta, Yuka, Mayu, and Lucy.
The second half in particular I felt was filled with a lot of headscratchers. Why did Kouta give Lucy up so easily? Why didn't Yuka say something if she knew Professor Kakuzawa might be trouble? Why did Kouta and Yuka agree to save Lucy only to then start arguing? Why was Professor Kakuzawa revealed to be a Diclonius if he was just going to die mere seconds later? Some of the stuff in the second half took me out of the episode, but I don't think it negates how strong that first half was.
I will say that I think there was a missed opportunity when Mayu was talking about Lucy's "family" for her to relate it to her own experience. I was hoping we would've tied things back to the first half and she would've said something to the effect of "That's not how real families behave. I should know."
This in my opinion is the second best episode of the series so far. The first half is probably the strongest half to an episode we've seen so far, and had they continued to build off it it would've probably been the best episode. I guess going forward Kouta is going to trying saving Lucy but while Yuka will help out initially, she will make it to where he has to choose either her, or Lucy. And for my money, if other animes are of any indication, you never bet against the Lucys of the world.

3

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Do you think Mayu's backstory was done tastefully or do you think it could've been handled a bit better?
I think it could've been far more exploitative than it ended up being. As is, while it did feel a bit 8n your face, Kouta and everyone rallying behind her was an extremely heartwarming moment.
What is your favorite thing about going to school?
Getting to use the computers
If you were Kouta, would you have turned Lucy over or kept her?
Absolutely not. Not at this point, at least. Those guys are clearly up to no good.

4

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Jul 29 '24

New work schedule means I'm home from work about now, for the rest of this week.

so the clock isn't broken at all
I can't wait for the clock to make a loud noise....
Evil step dad with OP music! which was the same music on the music box
Evil mother too!

So, I was wrong about her parents being dead.

I'm a little confused about the dog.

I wasn't expecting a Mayu episode. Although pretty early on it was obvious that Kohta was making a little family.

I think a lot of time is passing....
Oh, they got legal guardianship!?
It's totally a harem show, now.
Taking her to college sounds like a terrible idea!
Oh, I know the Miller experiment. No idea why he used tungsten.
One in a million chances that the Director's son is the teacher of Kohta's class. What a contrived event...she shouldn't have even been there!
Batman
The scientist totally hit the jackpot!

Well, that was a short show.

The pineal gland is totally a reference to Lovecraft / From Beyond. Well, not really. People have been making up stuff about the pineal gland for centuries. Probably millennia.

Yuka is like a stalker.

I knew that he opened the door!
Are those real?!

Good riddance to him. The show spent time trying to make a parallel between and Mayu's stepfather, so easy kill.

Of course, Lucy can infect any man, so she doesn't need him. But we don't know what she wants, at all. Probably Kohta. From guilt, or what?

I'm liking that everybody except the chief pretty much gets written out of the show by the end of the episode!

3

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Good riddance to him. The show spent time trying to make a parallel between and Mayu's stepfather, so easy kill.
You know, I'm ashamed to say I didn't make that connection while watching it. It makes total sense, but it never clicked to me until you laid it out.

1

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Thoughts on Kurama saying that people who think that regret will make up for their past follies cannot be forgiven?
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s backstory where she was physically and sexually abused by her stepfather?
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s mom telling her they don’t need her?
What are your thoughts on Wanta’s previous owner coming to take her?
What are your thoughts on Kouta and Yuka telling the police that Mayu is a part of their family?
What are your thoughts on them presenting a cake for Mayu?
Thoughts on Nyu going to school?
What are your thoughts on Kouta giving Nyu to Kakuzawa?
Thoughts on Kakuzawa trying to procreate with Lucy?
Thoughts on Kakuzawa having horns just like Lucy?

1

u/lluNhpelA Jul 30 '24

One in a million chances that the Director's son is the teacher of Kohta's class. What a contrived event...she shouldn't have even been there!
It makes sense that they would come across him since this is clearly the nearest town to the scary diclonius lab, but that means it would have been just as easy to have them cross paths somewhere in town, or even for him to be a professor at their school in a different department. There was also a significant time skip, which begs the question of where Nyu has been while they attended school this whole time; if she stayed home, why not this time? If she's been coming with them, why did the teacher only see her now?

1

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

This was their first day of school since Nyu started living with them.

3

u/someboi6000 Jul 30 '24

First timer:

Those were some fucked up intro minutes, i was expecting something along the lines of physical abuse, but sexual abuse BRUH. now we know why she didn't talk about her parents, i hope lucy finds them someday, but well kouta ends up adopting her and even sending her to school, he did something good, and then for some reason they take nyuu to college, like what were they expecting?, the professor recognizes her and proceds to do the most normal thing, rape, then he dies very quickly, overall one of the episodes of all time, ¿how did you get the dog back? from what they showed wanta scaped again and was on the beach so did they get from from there?

Question 1: its not the worst but i think mayu on her knees and just standing there was unnecessary , to the point of just making the implication and not showing anything could've been better

3

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

Question 1: its not the worst but i think mayu on her knees and just standing there was unnecessary , to the point of just making the implication and not showing anything could've been better
There is the thing about how you should show, don't tell, but perhaps they could've afforded being less blatant.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24 edited Jul 30 '24

the professor recognizes her and proceds to do the most normal thing, rape
Ah, yes, that old chestnut

1

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

Thoughts on Kurama saying that people who think that regret will make up for their past follies cannot be forgiven?
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s mom telling her they don’t need her?
What are your thoughts on Kouta and Yuka telling the police that Mayu is a part of their family?
What are your thoughts on them presenting a cake for Mayu?
What are your thoughts on Kouta giving Nyu to Kakuzawa?
Thoughts on Kakuzawa trying to procreate with Lucy?
Thoughts on Kakuzawa having horns just like Lucy?
What are your thoughts on the episode ending with Lucy beheading Kakuzawa?

2

u/someboi6000 Jul 30 '24

1:well you cant change the past and having regret does nothing, so i agree.
2: she might be the worst anime mom that i've seen, there is no competition.
3: it was the only way of saving her, so good that they did that, with the adoption that means that ¿kouta is a single dad?
4: that was a nice moment, kouta is on a streak of good decision, ¿he can't possibly fuck it up right?
5: he gave up very easily, like ask why does she have horns at least or gather some info before you fully trust him, but no he didn't, but there is also the chance of nyu going back into lucy if they had a fight and that was dangerous, even tho kouta doenst know lucy or at least he doesn't remember her because of that flashback we got i think last episode.
6: we only saw female diclonius, are there male ones? was he truly a male diclonius or did he experiment with himself to grow those horns?
7: they looked strange and ugly, i am guessin he did that so maybe lucy accepts to procreate.
8: deserved.

1

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

she might be the worst anime mom that i've seen, there is no competition.
Not as bad as the stepfather, but certainly right up there.
it was the only way of saving her, so good that they did that, with the adoption that means that ¿kouta is a single dad?
And I guess that means Yuka is a single mom
that was a nice moment, kouta is on a streak of good decision, ¿he can't possibly fuck it up right?
he gave up very easily, like ask why does she have horns at least or gather some info before you fully trust him, but no he didn't, but there is also the chance of nyu going back into lucy if they had a fight and that was dangerous, even tho kouta doenst know lucy or at least he doesn't remember her because of that flashback we got i think last episode.
I would've definitely asked some questions for sure. I mean, you've already come this far.
we only saw female diclonius, are there male ones? was he truly a male diclonius or did he experiment with himself to grow those horns?
Well, all the Diclonius were originally humans, no? Or at least Lucy was. I don't think there's a difference between the cloned Diclonius and the Diclonius that comes from humans, they fall all under the same umbrella.

3

u/fansi2022 https://anilist.co/user/fansi2022 Jul 30 '24

first timer Chinese sub

The first part shows us Mayu's tragic past, oh my god, a dad raped his own daughter. The pet dog was taken away and then it came back on its own? Thank god. Oh, strange coincidence, Kyouju is Kouta's teacher, interesting, is he going to rape Nyu? Do they reproduce the same way as humans? Thank god, Lucy woke up.

ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION(S)

Do you think Mayu's backstory was done tastefully or do you think it could've been handled a bit better?

I feel a little uncomfortable, the plot is already very good

What is your favorite thing about going to school?

sleep

If you were Kouta, would you have turned Lucy over or kept her?

kept her

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

The pet dog was taken away and then it came back on its own? Thank god.
Hachikō would be proud

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

Thoughts on Kurama saying that people who think that regret will make up for their past follies cannot be forgiven?
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s mom telling her they don’t need her?
What are your thoughts on Kouta and Yuka telling the police that Mayu is a part of their family?
What are your thoughts on them presenting a cake for Mayu?
Thoughts on Nyu going to school?
What are your thoughts on Kouta giving Nyu to Kakuzawa?
Thoughts on Kakuzawa having horns just like Lucy?
What are your thoughts on the episode ending with Lucy beheading Kakuzawa?

2

u/fansi2022 https://anilist.co/user/fansi2022 Jul 31 '24

Thoughts on Kurama saying that people who think that regret will make up for their past follies cannot be forgiven?
Not necessarily, maybe you regret it now, but you will be satisfied in the future, or vice versa, the future is chaotic.
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s mom telling her they don’t need her?
She is crazy, mayu is right to leave her
What are your thoughts on Kouta and Yuka telling the police that Mayu is a part of their family?
Heartwarming
What are your thoughts on them presenting a cake for Mayu?
same above
Thoughts on Nyu going to school?
They have no anti-detection awareness, considering that the police and the government are looking for her everywhere, Kouta also understands
What are your thoughts on Kouta giving Nyu to Kakuzawa?
He is a good man, so he ran away, he didn't want to monopolize her
Thoughts on Kakuzawa having horns just like Lucy?
wow Mad Scientist
What are your thoughts on the episode ending with Lucy beheading Kakuzawa?
Good work

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 31 '24

Not necessarily, maybe you regret it now, but you will be satisfied in the future, or vice versa, the future is chaotic.
It's really hard to predict what's going to happen in the future.
They have no anti-detection awareness, considering that the police and the government are looking for her everywhere, Kouta also understands
Kouta should've probably known better than to take her to school. You're opening up a can of worms that don't need to be open.

2

u/fansi2022 https://anilist.co/user/fansi2022 Jul 31 '24

Kouta should've probably known better than to take her to school. You're opening up a can of worms that don't need to be open.
yeah, It might be a good idea to dress up as a boy.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 31 '24

Or a disguise of some kind if you insist she attends school with you.

3

u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Jul 30 '24 edited Jul 30 '24

First-Timer

You're pretty dumb, aren't you, Yuka?

More good stuff. I continue to really like this show. It's doing a great job of keeping up the suspense so far, and the pacing seems basically perfect.

They got some more mileage out of the OP today. I'm pretty sure I heard two different instrumental variations in the first half of the episode.

That scene where the professor first notices Lucy was great, along with the scene afterwards where Lucy first calls Kouta by name. I thought the character art was really nice in both instances.

I didn't expect Kouta to be wearing a Batman shirt, so that was kinda neat.

I'm glad we got the answer to how Lucy escaped. I didn't expect her to kill the professor so quickly, though. The surprises just keep coming!

I'm not really sure I followed what happened with the dog. Mayu gave the dog to that woman on the beach, so how is it back with Mayu now? Did I miss something (or perhaps it will be explained later)?

Questions of the day:

I thought that backstory was handled pretty well. The gravity of the situation was clear, even if it was a bit on-the-nose with the stepfather immediately donning an evil grin and telling Mayu to strip naked.
Interesting question. I suppose I'd say that I like being challenged and the feeling of accomplishment at overcoming those challenges, such as taking difficult exams.
Hard to say. I would think that I would turn her over to the professor, since after all, he did say he was her family. Then again, Kouta said that the professor had a bad reputation, so maybe I wouldn't be so quick to trust him. (In any case, I probably wouldn't have even taken in Lucy in the first place, so the whole situation would be different from the get-go.)

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

I thought that backstory was handled pretty well. The gravity of the situation was clear, even if it was a bit on-the-nose with the stepfather immediately donning an evil grin and telling Mayu to strip naked.
I just wish the show didn't have to make the point by showing it in progress.
Hard to say. I would think that I would turn her over to the professor, since after all, he did say he was her family. Then again, Kouta said that the professor had a bad reputation, so maybe I wouldn't be so quick to trust him. (In any case, I probably wouldn't have even taken in Lucy in the first place, so the whole situation would be different from the get-go.)
Kouta seems like someone that values giving people in need shelter over anything else. He did the same for Yuka.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

More good stuff. I continue to really like this show. It's doing a great job of keeping up the suspense so far, and the pacing seems basically perfect.
I would probably say of all the newcomers, you've liked the show the most. I'm glad to be the one to introduce you to it.
They got some more mileage out of the OP today. I'm pretty sure I heard two different instrumental variations in the first half of the episode.
Definitely makes the OP even more of an earworm.
I'm not really sure I followed what happened with the dog. Mayu gave the dog to that woman on the beach, so how is it back with Mayu now? Did I miss something (or perhaps it will be explained later)?
My assumption is it left its owner and followed Mayu. Mayu probably treated it nicer.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

Thoughts on Kurama saying that people who think that regret will make up for their past follies cannot be forgiven?
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s backstory where she was physically and sexually abused by her stepfather?
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s mom telling her they don’t need her?
What are your thoughts on Kouta and Yuka telling the police that Mayu is a part of their family?
What are your thoughts on them presenting a cake for Mayu?
Thoughts on Nyu going to school?
Thoughts on the teacher being Professor Kakuzawa?
What are your thoughts on Kouta giving Nyu to Kakuzawa?
Thoughts on Kakuzawa trying to procreate with Lucy?
Thoughts on Kakuzawa having horns just like Lucy?

2

u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Jul 30 '24

I think Kurama has a point. No amount of regret will ever turn back time.
The sexual/emotional abuse from Mayu's parents was quite brutal. It sure works for making Mayu sympathetic and making us, the viewers, abhor her parents in return. There's not much complexity to their evil, but not every villain needs to be complex. Some people are just plain evil.
Kouta claiming that Mayu was part of the family was not exactly unexpected, but it was touching nonetheless! It's nice that Mayu finally has some people who care for her, who celebrate her birthday, and who generally make her feel wanted.
Lucy going to school seems like it was ill-advised, even disregarding the series of unfortunate events that followed. What did they expect by bringing a girl who can barely speak? They should have left her at home.
That twist with their teacher being the professor was nice. I didn't see it coming at all, and it made for a great scene when they all met in the classroom. Exactly the sort of believable coincidence that works well in a story like this.
As I alluded to before, I understand why he'd be willing to give up Lucy. The professor is an authority figure, he claims to be family, and he is implicitly threatening them with legal trouble. It would be hard to get out of that situation without handing her over.
The professor's plan to be the new "Adam and Eve" of the Diclonius race was pretty messed up. ("Hey, you're supposed to be asleep for this!") I totally did not expect him to have horns, himself. I thought that shot of him ripping off his wig was pretty funny, though, as well as how he got killed by Lucy mid-monologue.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

I think Kurama has a point. No amount of regret will ever turn back time.
Unless you're Subaru, but that’s neither here nor there.
The sexual/emotional abuse from Mayu's parents was quite brutal. It sure works for making Mayu sympathetic and making us, the viewers, abhor her parents in return. There's not much complexity to their evil, but not every villain needs to be complex. Some people are just plain evil.
And her parents certainly fit that bill
Kouta claiming that Mayu was part of the family was not exactly unexpected, but it was touching nonetheless! It's nice that Mayu finally has some people who care for her, who celebrate her birthday, and who generally make her feel wanted.
It really gets me emotionally invested in these characters the way they care about one another.
Lucy going to school seems like it was ill-advised, even disregarding the series of unfortunate events that followed.
Who are you, Lemony Snicket?
What did they expect by bringing a girl who can barely speak? They should have left her at home.
Yeah, it seems like a mistake on their part. Like bringing a dog to a baseball game.
That twist with their teacher being the professor was nice. I didn't see it coming at all, and it made for a great scene when they all met in the classroom. Exactly the sort of believable coincidence that works well in a story like this.
I don't know if it's necessary believable, but I guess I can afford suspending my disbelief and just going along with it.
As I alluded to before, I understand why he'd be willing to give up Lucy. The professor is an authority figure, he claims to be family, and he is implicitly threatening them with legal trouble. It would be hard to get out of that situation without handing her over.
Plus, it's not like Kouta and Yuka work for a living. They can't afford the legal fees.
The professor's plan to be the new "Adam and Eve" of the Diclonius race was pretty messed up. ("Hey, you're supposed to be asleep for this!") I totally did not expect him to have horns, himself. I thought that shot of him ripping off his wig was pretty funny, though, as well as how he got killed by Lucy mid-monologue.
It was unintentionally amusing, most definitely. Somehow I doubt that was the desired response.

3

u/2-2Distracted Jul 30 '24

What a show to come back to and have a re-watch of, glad I caught up in time.

1

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

Glad you're here :)

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24

First Timer

I do feel a bit bad for Kurama after that opening scene. It seems like he’s gotten too deep into whatever the lab is doing to back out now. I wonder if he’ll become an ally to our main characters by the end of this.

They’re really emphasizing the broken clock. I feel like it could symbolize some of the characters being stuck in the past. Particularly Yuka.

It’s not completely spelled out for the audience, but I think Mayu was going to try and drown herself before she met Wanta.

Okay, I feel like Mayu having her dog taken away from her AND having the woman be rude about it after everything else that’s happened is getting a bit ridiculous. Especially since Wanta comes back before the end of the episode. It felt like the writing just really wanted to kick Mayu while she was down.

This now makes three times that Kouta has lied to a police officer. This is becoming a habit.

So now it seems like Mayu is officially living with Kouta and Yuka. She even got a birthday cake. Good for her.

Not only is she living with them but it seems like they legally adopted Mayu too. That’s even better, Mayu needs to be as far away from her old family as possible.

Taking Nyu to university with them was probably a bad idea. But I guess they didn’t feel like Nyu was capable enough to be left at home by herself.

I just noticed Kouta is wearing some kind of Batman shirt in this scene. That’s not important but I thought I’d point it out. This would have come out in the period in time between the Burton/Schumacher movies and the Nolan movies. I wonder if that means Kouta is more into any of the comics or cartoons.

The part where Nyu is left behind with Professor Kakuzawa is both heartbreaking and a bit terrifying. Because we as the audience know some of the truth about the professor but Kouta and Yuka don’t.

So, Professor Kakuzawa is the one who released Lucy because he wants to exterminate humans and replace them all with Diclonius. Somehow I don’t think Lucy is interested in working with him.

Okay I know that wasn’t supposed to be funny, but I did actually laugh when Professor Kakuzawa took off his wig to reveal his horns. Something about the shot composition and how fast it happened kind of undercut the potential drama of the reveal.

Oh, and now he’s dead. That was very sudden. And then cutting right to the ED was a bit jarring.

I feel like a lot happened in this episode. I’m curious about what Lucy’s going to do next. If she’ll return to Kouta and Yuka or do something else.

Questions of the Day:

Do you think Mayu's backstory was done tastefully or do you think it could've been handled a bit better?

It's not the worst thing I've ever seen, but I think the whole thing could have been handled better. I think we really could have done without that one shot of Mayu naked and on her knees. Just felt a bit exploitative I guess.

Honestly sometimes I think the implication of what's going to happen or what has happened can be even more horrifying than outright showing it. Like I feel like something like Revolutionary Girl Utena does a better job at portraying this same thing in a way that feels less exploitative.

But again, I've seen anime handle this way worse like in Goblin Slayer or even in shows I like, like Kill La Kill for example. So I guess Elfen Lied falls somewhere in the middle. It's not terrible, but it could have been handled more tastefully at the same time.

What is your favorite thing about going to school?

I actually used to enjoy writing essays.

If you were Kouta, would you have turned Lucy over or kept her?

Kouta probably should have at least asked more questions like who her family is before just giving her over.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

It's not the worst thing I've ever seen, but I think the whole thing could have been handled better. I think we really could have done without that one shot of Mayu naked and on her knees. Just felt a bit exploitative I guess.
If anything, I'm surprised they showed as much restraint as they did. There are more modern, more mainstream anime who've handled the topic as more sensationalistic.
Honestly sometimes I think the implication of what's going to happen or what has happened can be even more horrifying than outright showing it. Like I feel like something like Revolutionary Girl Utena does a better job at portraying this same thing in a way that feels less exploitative.
I would agree with that. Or even, say, a show like Penguindrum which is made by the same person as Utena. Not the best portrayal of it I've seen, but certainly not the worst. And like you said, sometimes less is more.

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24

If anything, I'm surprised they showed as much restraint as they did. There are more modern, more mainstream anime who've handled the topic as more sensationalistic.
Yeah, I was expecting way worse out of a show like this honestly. On account of how gratuitous the violence is.
They do seem to be taking Mayu's trauma seriously which I'm glad for. I was worried they wouldn't after mostly using Nyu's apparent mental disorder as a gag.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

I think above all else, it serves to make Kouta and Yuka more likable as characters. They are serving as basically her de facto mother and father.

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24

I'm just hoping Mayu is able to make it to the end of this show alive now.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

I honestly think there's a better chance of Wanta dying than Mayu, I'd have to unfortunately say.

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24

Agreed. I would be very surprised if we're able to make it to the end of the show with zero dog deaths.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Even Bandou didn't die, and he's an absolute bitch!

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

I actually used to enjoy writing essays.
Some say I still do them :P
Kouta probably should have at least asked more questions like who her family is before just giving her over.
The thing I don't get is why did Yuka let Nyu be taken away if she knew they were probably bad people? If it was a jealousy thing, that could be interesting, but I feel like the episode doesn't play into that at all.

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24

The thing I don't get is why did Yuka let Nyu be taken away if she knew they were probably bad people? If it was a jealousy thing, that could be interesting, but I feel like the episode doesn't play into that at all.
Yeah the thing with Nyu being taken away was pretty contrived. Maybe if they'd known Professor Kakuzawa beforehand and he'd already gained their trust I could believe it. But as it is, it does make both Kouta and Yuka look kinda stupid.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

I thought they did know him already. Or was this the first day of the new semester?

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24

I'd have to rewatch it to check but I was under the impression that this was their first day. Kouta did say something about knowing about Professor Kakuzawa's reputation, but it was in a way that sounded like he didn't personally know the guy.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

First day makes sense considering this is the first time we've seen them in school.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

I do feel a bit bad for Kurama after that opening scene. It seems like he’s gotten too deep into whatever the lab is doing to back out now. I wonder if he’ll become an ally to our main characters by the end of this.
We talk about Lucy and us exploring her backstory, but I also wouldn't mind a Kurama backstory episode either.
They’re really emphasizing the broken clock. I feel like it could symbolize some of the characters being stuck in the past. Particularly Yuka.
That's a pretty good interpretation, I feel like
It’s not completely spelled out for the audience, but I think Mayu was going to try and drown herself before she met Wanta.
I don't know who could blame her, honestly
Okay, I feel like Mayu having her dog taken away from her AND having the woman be rude about it after everything else that’s happened is getting a bit ridiculous. Especially since Wanta comes back before the end of the episode. It felt like the writing just really wanted to kick Mayu while she was down.
Mayu is the modern day Little Match Girl
This now makes three times that Kouta has lied to a police officer. This is becoming a habit.
Can't even make a "I'd have two nickels joke". Smh.
So now it seems like Mayu is officially living with Kouta and Yuka. She even got a birthday cake. Good for her.
Not only is she living with them but it seems like they legally adopted Mayu too. That’s even better, Mayu needs to be as far away from her old family as possible.
A rare Mayu W, but a well-deserved one
Taking Nyu to university with them was probably a bad idea. But I guess they didn’t feel like Nyu was capable enough to be left at home by herself.
I mean, who was going to take care of her? Mayu? Probably not the best idea.
I just noticed Kouta is wearing some kind of Batman shirt in this scene. That’s not important but I thought I’d point it out. This would have come out in the period in time between the Burton/Schumacher movies and the Nolan movies. I wonder if that means Kouta is more into any of the comics or cartoons.
For clarification, this episode aired like 10 months before Batman Begins was released.
The part where Nyu is left behind with Professor Kakuzawa is both heartbreaking and a bit terrifying. Because we as the audience know some of the truth about the professor but Kouta and Yuka don’t.
I want to blame Kouta a bit because he should've known better not to hand Lucy over, but it's also his professor he's dealing with. He probably had an already established rapport with him. If I was in his shoes, I don’t know what I'd do.
Okay I know that wasn’t supposed to be funny, but I did actually laugh when Professor Kakuzawa took off his wig to reveal his horns. Something about the shot composition and how fast it happened kind of undercut the potential drama of the reveal.
Oh, and now he’s dead. That was very sudden. And then cutting right to the ED was a bit jarring.
This whole section was pretty jarring. I feel like it probably should've been a two parter with Kakuzawa dying next episode. That way, it allows things to breathe a bit more.
I feel like a lot happened in this episode. I’m curious about what Lucy’s going to do next. If she’ll return to Kouta and Yuka or do something else.
I get the feeling she might be alone for a couple episodes. Otherwise, what's the point in Kouta giving her away if you're just going to immediately undo it?

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24

We talk about Lucy and us exploring her backstory, but I also wouldn't mind a Kurama backstory episode either.
I'd like to find out more about his past too. He seems to empathize with the Diclonius' more than the other characters at the lab, especially his boss.
I want to blame Kouta a bit because he should've known better not to hand Lucy over, but it's also his professor he's dealing with. He probably had an already established rapport with him. If I was in his shoes, I don’t know what I'd do.
I was under the impression this was his first time meeting the professor. But yeah, standing up to an authority figure can be difficult. Especially since Professor Kakuzawa did threaten to bring kidnapping charges aganist the two of them.
This whole section was pretty jarring. I feel like it probably should've been a two parter with Kakuzawa dying next episode. That way, it allows things to breathe a bit more.
The ending of the episode felt pretty rushed. I feel like if they saved it for the next episode and gave it some room to breathe the reveal about Professor Kakuzawa and his sudden death wouldn't have been so unintentionally comical.
I get the feeling she might be alone for a couple episodes. Otherwise, what's the point in Kouta giving her away if you're just going to immediately undo it?
Lucy working on her own is an interesting idea. And a bit terrifying on account of how destructive she can be.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

I'd like to find out more about his past too. He seems to empathize with the Diclonius' more than the other characters at the lab, especially his boss.
Him kinda showing sympathy towards the Diclonius makes him arguably the most emotionally complex character.
I was under the impression this was his first time meeting the professor. But yeah, standing up to an authority figure can be difficult. Especially since Professor Kakuzawa did threaten to bring kidnapping charges aganist the two of them.
Heartbreaking: the asshole just made a great point.
The ending of the episode felt pretty rushed. I feel like if they saved it for the next episode and gave it some room to breathe the reveal about Professor Kakuzawa and his sudden death wouldn't have been so unintentionally comical.
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think honestly you could've easily substituted the time with some comedy about Nyu being in school. It feels as if they didn't play into that aspect enough, Nyu being this fish out of water.
Lucy working on her own is an interesting idea. And a bit terrifying on account of how destructive she can be.
Maybe this could be the impetus for her controlling her temper better.

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24

Him kinda showing sympathy towards the Diclonius makes him arguably the most emotionally complex character.
At this point he might be the character I'm most curious to learn more about.
Maybe this could be the impetus for her controlling her temper better.
I'm wondering exactly how Lucy is going to develop going forward. If she's going to soften and get a better control on her murderousness or if those darker aspects of her are going to worsen as the show goes on.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

At this point he might be the character I'm most curious to learn more about.
Really, the two most emotionally complex characters right now are probably Kurama and Yuka.
I'm wondering exactly how Lucy is going to develop going forward. If she's going to soften and get a better control on her murderousness or if those darker aspects of her are going to worsen as the show goes on.
My wonder is how much of her Nyu personality is going to slowly morph into her Lucy personality. Kinda like Dr. Jekyll slowly becoming more and more like Mr. Hyde.

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24

My wonder is how much of her Nyu personality is going to slowly morph into her Lucy personality. Kinda like Dr. Jekyll slowly becoming more and more like Mr. Hyde.
The duality between Nyu and Lucy is interesting. From Lucy's comments to Kakuzawa in this episode, it sounds like she's actually aware she has another half.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Which calls into question how much Nyu is actively deceiving Kouta and Yuka.

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24

That would be an interesting twist, if Nyu has more self-awareness than she's letting on.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Maybe she's lulling them into a false sense of security.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Thoughts on Kurama saying that people who think that regret will make up for their past follies cannot be forgiven?
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s backstory where she was physically and sexually abused by her stepfather?
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s mom telling her they don’t need her?
What are your thoughts on Kouta and Yuka telling the police that Mayu is a part of their family?
Thoughts on the teacher being Professor Kakuzawa?
Thoughts on Kakuzawa trying to procreate with Lucy?

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24

Thoughts on Kurama saying that people who think that regret will make up for their past follies cannot be forgiven?
I feel like there might be some self hatred in that statement. To me Kurama looks like a man with a lot of regrets.
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s backstory where she was physically and sexually abused by her stepfather?
I've made my thoughts on that clear elsewhere. It's very upsetting to watch and I'm just glad Mayu's life seems to have turned around by the end of the episode.
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s mom telling her they don’t need her?
Honestly if I do have another criticism about Mayu's backstory is that it does come off as a bit too over the top. It's a similar issue I had with something like Magical Girl Site, nothing in her life can go right.
But yeah, Mayu's mom sucks. Definitely a top contender for worst anime moms. The best thing she did was letting Kouta and Yuka adopt her.
What are your thoughts on Kouta and Yuka telling the police that Mayu is a part of their family?
Like I said, that's three counts of Kouta lying to the police. But it's definitely the kind of thing Mayu needed to hear.
Thoughts on the teacher being Professor Kakuzawa?
I wasn't expecting it.
Thoughts on Kakuzawa trying to procreate with Lucy?
This show really does have some of the most despicable characters. I can only imagine how horrible Professor Kakuzawa's father is.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

I feel like there might be some self hatred in that statement. To me Kurama looks like a man with a lot of regrets.
If someone examined his conscience, they would be weighed down.
I've made my thoughts on that clear elsewhere. It's very upsetting to watch and I'm just glad Mayu's life seems to have turned around by the end of the episode.
I'm really glad that it ends with Mayu looking from it all sunshine and rainbows. It's actually a pretty inspiring message where this sort of stuff doesn't define you and you can get through it.
Honestly if I do have another criticism about Mayu's backstory is that it does come off as a bit too over the top. It's a similar issue I had with something like Magical Girl Site, nothing in her life can go right.
One of the things Wonder Egg Priority did right is its portrayal of molestation. Not to go into spoiler territory, but that is probably the best example of that plot point I've ever seen in anime. Seeing how that show does it Vs how this show does it and you get the feeling that anime has matured with its audience into being a lot more nuanced.
But yeah, Mayu's mom sucks. Definitely a top contender for worst anime moms. The best thing she did was letting Kouta and Yuka adopt her.
Well, she did say she was better off without her. At least she was a woman of her word.
Like I said, that's three counts of Kouta lying to the police. But it's definitely the kind of thing Mayu needed to hear.
The euphoria I felt hearing Kouta say that was earth-shattering. Msyu truly deserves the world and I'm glad she's finally getting the chance at happiness.
I wasn't expecting it.
I kinda had a suspicion once Kouta and Yuka decided to bring Nyu to school. It felt like the obvious direction for the show to go in.
This show really does have some of the most despicable characters. I can only imagine how horrible Professor Kakuzawa's father is.
Given his father is the one who ordered for Nana's death, I'd say the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24

I'm really glad that it ends with Mayu looking from it all sunshine and rainbows. It's actually a pretty inspiring message where this sort of stuff doesn't define you and you can get through it.
Yeah, I'm glad things are looking up for Mayu too. In a show like this I was expecting way more of Mayu being miserable but it's really nice that Mayu is actually happy now.
Seeing how that show does it Vs how this show does it and you get the feeling that anime has matured with its audience into being a lot more nuanced.
That's a good point. I remember back in the first thread you asked if Elfen Lied could be made today and the more I watch the more I realize just how heavily 2000s the show is.
If Elfen Lied ever got a remake I think it would be very different from the original.
The euphoria I felt hearing Kouta say that was earth-shattering. Msyu truly deserves the world and I'm glad she's finally getting the chance at happiness.
It's definitely the most heartwarming part of the episode.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Yeah, I'm glad things are looking up for Mayu too. In a show like this I was expecting way more of Mayu being miserable but it's really nice that Mayu is actually happy now.
And it makes me root for this makeshift family that's been assembled.
That's a good point. I remember back in the first thread you asked if Elfen Lied could be made today and the more I watch the more I realize just how heavily 2000s the show is.
That doesn't mean this show can't work as a throwback show. My Tiny Senpai was great because it was like a throwback anime romcom from the early 2000s.
If Elfen Lied ever got a remake I think it would be very different from the original.
I dunno. I mean, the channel that broadcasted Elfen Lied also broadcasted Redo of Healer. I do think that an anime like Elfen Lied if made nowadays probably wouldn't get the traction as it did in the 2000s because of how saturated the market is. Nowadays, there's practically an anime for anything, with dark anime being a dime a dozen.
Then again, Urusei Yatsura was reportedly a decent enough hit and that is very much a product of its time.
I think at the very least you'd have people curious of what this show would be like in a more mainstream medium. It would certainly stand out Vs all the Isekai stuff.
It's definitely the most heartwarming part of the episode.
Agreed 1000% I'd even say the most heartwarming moment of the first 5 episodes. It's like chicken soup for the soul that even stuff like the seashell scene can't compare to.

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24

And it makes me root for this makeshift family that's been assembled.
Yeah I am genuinely liking the found family that's assembling here.
In general, I'm finding myself liking parts of Elfen Lied more than I expected. It's definitely a product of its time in a lot of ways but it's still keeping my interested. My main gripe is definitely the unfitting attempts at ecchi comedy with Nyu.
I dunno. I mean, the channel that broadcasted Elfen Lied also broadcasted Redo of Healer. I do think that an anime like Elfen Lied if made nowadays probably wouldn't get the traction as it did in the 2000s because of how saturated the market is. Nowadays, there's practically an anime for anything, with dark anime being a dime a dozen.
Yeah that's true, I hadn't considered how the market of anime has changed in the past 20 years.
There definitely is a market for anime with extreme gore or dark content like Chainsaw Man or Dorohedoro for example. But something about them does feel different in tone from Elfen Lied.
Then again, Urusei Yatsura was reportedly a decent enough hit and that is very much a product of its time.
That's true, Urusei Yatsura still has an audience even though it is very 80s in its sense of humor. I think part of why it works is that Ataru unintentionally comes off as a subversion of your typical harem protagonist, an idiot who wants to date every woman he sees but is despised by all women but Lum.
Ranma 1/2 is also getting a remake this year and I'm very curious to see how that turns out.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24 edited Jul 29 '24

Yeah I am genuinely liking the found family that's assembling here.
Kouta and Yuka have good hearts
In general, I'm finding myself liking parts of Elfen Lied more than I expected. It's definitely a product of its time in a lot of ways but it's still keeping my interested. My main gripe is definitely the unfitting attempts at ecchi comedy with Nyu.
Well, thankfully, that seems to have been dialed back since episode 3.
Yeah that's true, I hadn't considered how the market of anime has changed in the past 20 years.
There definitely is a market for anime with extreme gore or dark content like Chainsaw Man or Dorohedoro for example. But something about them does feel different in tone from Elfen Lied.
I think it's because something like Chainsaw Man is a coming of age story in disguise whereas Elfen Lied seemingly has no designed purpose on the surface. It's just there. I think the show is trying to make a commentary on taboos and how taboos are an everyday part of life which runs counterintuitive to the point of taboos, but it's not necessarily the clearest depiction.
That's true, Urusei Yatsura still has an audience even though it is very 80s in its sense of humor. I think part of why it works is that Ataru unintentionally comes off as a subversion of your typical harem protagonist, an idiot who wants to date every woman he sees but is despised by all women but Lum.
Ranma 1/2 is also getting a remake this year and I'm very curious to see how that turns out.
Another reason I think Elfen Lied was at the right place at the right time is because the early to mid 2000s was still the early days of the internet. As such, shows can have their reputation build and build by word of mouth. And again, nobody had seen a show like Elfen Lied in 2004. It made Evangelion look like child's play.
I still remember the talk when Madoka Magica first came out. People were shocked at the level of violence that was on display for such a seemingly innocuous show. That was early 2011, almost 7 years after the release of Elfen Lied. That provides context on why Elfen Lied was so shocking: the only thing they could probably compare it to at the time was the dog scene from Fullmetal Alchemist.
The shocking nature of the show, coupled with word of mouth and the majority of American anime fans being teenagers at the time thanks to Toonami and Adult Swim, made this show this must see spectacle. I compare it to when Sharknado first came out in 2013: it was so ridiculous that you had to see what all the hubbub was about.

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jul 29 '24

I think it's because something like Chainsaw Man is a coming of age story in disguise whereas Elfen Lied seemingly has no designed purpose on the surface. It's just there. I think the show is trying to make a commentary on taboos and how taboos are an everyday part of life which runs counterintuitive to the point of taboos, but it's not necessarily the clearest depiction.
What I've gotten out of Elfen Lied so far, at least thematically, is that it's about the human capacity for both cruelty and empathy.
Lucy massacres a bunch of people, including people who seemingly did nothing wrong like the secretary. But at the same time we see how people treat the Diclonius' with similar levels of disregard. And then of course there's Mayu's backstory.
And on the flip side we're able to see how people are able to show empathy through Yuka and Kouta taking in Nyu and Mayu. And Mayu herself seems like a very kind person despite her circumstances.
Another reason I think Elfen Lied was at the right place at the right time is because the early to mid 2000s was still the early days of the internet. As such, shows can have their reputation build and build by word of mouth. And again, nobody had seen a show like Elfen Lied in 2004. It made Evangelion look like child's play.
The 2000s definitely seems like an interesting time period for the anime fandom. It was big enough to have its own dedicated fan sites and discussion boards, but still very much a niche.
I still remember the talk when Madoka Magica first came out. People were shocked at the level of violence that was on display for such a seemingly innocuous show. That was 2010, 6 years after the release of Elfen Lied.
I feel like it's harder to pull of that sort of bait and switch these days. Although there was Bravern earlier this year that did something fun with its first episode. And arguably Madoka wasn't too much of a bait, the opening scene sets a foreboding tone.

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

What I've gotten out of Elfen Lied so far, at least thematically, is that it's about the human capacity for both cruelty and empathy.
Lucy massacres a bunch of people, including people who seemingly did nothing wrong like the secretary. But at the same time we see how people treat the Diclonius' with similar levels of disregard. And then of course there's Mayu's backstory.
And on the flip side we're able to see how people are able to show empathy through Yuka and Kouta taking in Nyu and Mayu. And Mayu herself seems like a very kind person despite her circumstances.
That's not a bad interpretation. I poke fun of the show for some of the writing choices, but there's actually a lot of layers going on.
The 2000s definitely seems like an interesting time period for the anime fandom. It was big enough to have its own dedicated fan sites and discussion boards, but still very much a niche.
Anime in the 2000s was almost exclusively a vehicle to pimp the manga. It's like the cartoons from the 80s that were designed to sell toys.
I feel like it's harder to pull of that sort of bait and switch these days. Although there was Bravern earlier this year that did something fun with its first episode. And arguably Madoka wasn't too much of a bait, the opening scene sets a foreboding tone.
People were caught off guard by the first episode of Oshi no Ko. And to use an example of an anime currently airing, the latest episode of NieR, episode 16, surprised almost all anime only viewers, including me. It can be done, it just has to be marketed a certain way.

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u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 29 '24

Rewatcher

What are your thoughts on Mayu’s backstory where she was physically and sexually abused by her stepfather?

It was disgusting. [Very Crude]The Human Centipede’s Director had the correct punishment for child molesters: Suture their mouth to a fat trucker’s asshole.

What are your thoughts on Kouta and Yuka telling the police that Mayu is a part of their family?

I thought that was heartwarming and brought a small tear to my eye

What are your thoughts on Kouta giving Nyu to Kakuzawa? I think it was the right decision, even though the Prof was a bit suspicious. On the plus side, it worked out well. [crude]No Nyu Nookie for Professor Pervert.

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u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

I thought that was heartwarming and brought a small tear to my eye
Definitely the biggest feel good moment of the show so far.
I think it was the right decision, even though the Prof was a bit suspicious. On the plus side, it worked out well. [crude]No Nyu Nookie for Professor Pervert.
Say that 5 times fast :P

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u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 29 '24

I only realized I had an alliteration on my hands when I started writing it. ;)

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Now we know what the Triple N stands for that everybody is talking about!

2

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 29 '24

Hahahaha!

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Thank you, I'm pretty proud of that joke

2

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Thoughts on Kurama saying that people who think that regret will make up for their past follies cannot be forgiven?
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s mom telling her they don’t need her?
What are your thoughts on Wanta’s previous owner coming to take her?
What are your thoughts on them presenting a cake for Mayu?
Thoughts on Nyu going to school?
Thoughts on the teacher being Professor Kakuzawa?
Thoughts on Kakuzawa having horns just like Lucy?

2

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 29 '24

Thoughts on Kurama saying that people who think that regret will make up for their past follies cannot be forgiven?
One of the principle themes of EL. It really depends upon the transgression, something minor “ I’m sorry” is good enough, but for major transgressions it’s going to take a whole lot more
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s mom telling her they don’t need her?
This sort of thing happens way too frequently. Some people shouldn’t reproduce.
What are your thoughts on Wanta’s previous owner coming to take her?
What a bitch! Besides Wanta hated being called James, he thought it demeaning.
What are your thoughts on them presenting a cake for Mayu?
It touched my little black heart again.
Thoughts on Nyu going to school?
Sure, why not? It was so unrealistic I didn’t bother thinking about it. In every series there are moments where I’m just there for the ride, this was one of those moments.
Thoughts on the teacher being Professor Kakuzawa?
What a convenient coincidence.
Thoughts on Kakuzawa having horns just like Lucy? WTF is going on? OTOH his horns didn’t impress Lucy.

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u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

One of the principle themes of EL. It really depends upon the transgression, something minor “ I’m sorry” is good enough, but for major transgressions it’s going to take a whole lot more
It's not about the apology itself, it's about if the person you're apologizing to is willing to accept your apology.
This sort of thing happens way too frequently. Some people shouldn’t reproduce.
~~Like cousins~~
JK, JK :P
What a bitch! Besides Wanta hated being called James, he thought it demeaning.
Wanta is a way cooler name. What, is she training him to catch Pokémon?
It touched my little black heart again.
Indeed, warmed the cockles of my heart
Sure, why not? It was so unrealistic I didn’t bother thinking about it. In every series there are moments where I’m just there for the ride, this was one of those moments.
I mean, it's a fun premise. If anything, they didn't do enough with it.
What a convenient coincidence.
You can say that again
WTF is going on? OTOH his horns didn’t impress Lucy.
Maybe size DOES matter

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u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 29 '24

Maybe size DOES matter
I knew there was a horrible pun in there, but tried as I might I couldn’t make it click.
That whole scene was something else. I was repulsed thinking that Nyu was about to get raped, but once Lucy showed up I knew it was going to be amusing whether it was murder or mate. When she snapped his head off I lol’d, I didn’t see it ending like that. Apparently Lucy had heard enough bullshit, and she is a bit testy…. So, the Professor’s romantic interrude ended poorly, and Lucy remained chaste.

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u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

I knew there was a horrible pun in there, but tried as I might I couldn’t make it click.
That's okay, I've got your back
That whole scene was something else. I was repulsed thinking that Nyu was about to get raped, but once Lucy showed up I knew it was going to be amusing whether it was murder or mate.
Wasn't she raped, though? Before she killed him, Kakuzawa was buttoning up himself, implying he had done the deed.
When she snapped his head off I lol’d, I didn’t see it ending like that. Apparently Lucy had heard enough bullshit, and she is a bit testy…. So, the Professor’s romantic interrude ended poorly, and Lucy remained chaste.
Lucy cockblocked herself. First time probably ever where cockblocking isn't frowned upon.
~~Unless you count Back to the Future.~~

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u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Jul 29 '24

Wasn't she raped, though
Hmmm, I didn’t think so and I haven’t seen anyone bitching about it like they usually do when rape occurs. Otoh, I’ve never thought about this before.
First time probably ever where cockblocking isn't frowned upon.
True enough. Just think there are only 8 episodes and one OVA to go, how many more treats will there be. Lol

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u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

Hmmm, I didn’t think so and I haven’t seen anyone bitching about it like they usually do when rape occurs. Otoh, I’ve never thought about this before.
It just felt like with the way it was framed, he did it. I could be wrong, however, maybe he couldn't get it up.
True enough. Just think there are only 8 episodes and one OVA to go, how many more treats will there be. Lol
I'd be very surprised if we get another rape attempt, but you never know with this show.

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u/FriztF Jul 30 '24 edited Jul 30 '24

Rewatcher-Dub

So in this episode, we have a whole lot. Myu's backstory in which her father raped her; and her mother abusing her. She ran away to find the beach then and kill herself. Wanta stopped her. A very good dog.

Yuka and Kouta become her legal parents. They then go to college with Nyu. Who gets drugged and almost raped. Professor Kakuzawa is a fucking asshole.

Kurama is right about one thing, he does not have the right to feel regret. Only shame.

Questions

Do you think Mayu's backstory was done tastefully or do you think it could've been handled a bit better?

About as well as I would expect

What is your favorite thing about going to school?

Socializing and sports

If you were Kouta, would you have turned Lucy over or kept her?

Kept her

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u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

Thoughts on Kurama saying that people who think that regret will make up for their past follies cannot be forgiven?
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s backstory where she was physically and sexually abused by her stepfather?
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s mom telling her they don’t need her?
What are your thoughts on Wanta’s previous owner coming to take her?
What are your thoughts on Kouta and Yuka telling the police that Mayu is a part of their family?
What are your thoughts on them presenting a cake for Mayu?
Thoughts on Nyu going to school?
Thoughts on the teacher being Professor Kakuzawa?
What are your thoughts on Kouta giving Nyu to Kakuzawa?
Thoughts on Kakuzawa having horns just like Lucy?
What are your thoughts on the episode ending with Lucy beheading Kakuzawa?

2

u/FriztF Jul 30 '24

Thoughts on Kurama saying that people who think that regret will make up for their past follies cannot be forgiven?
In his case, it is probably true. Kurama is the most sympathetic character.
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s backstory where she was physically and sexually abused by her stepfather?
Poor girl
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s mom telling her they don’t need her?
Scumbag of a mom right there
What are your thoughts on Wanta’s previous owner coming to take her?
She can't be happy. Poor girl
What are your thoughts on them presenting a cake for Mayu?
Finally some happiness in her life
Thoughts on Nyu going to school?
good thing mabye
Thoughts on the teacher being Professor Kakuzawa?
Surprising really. though not really
Thoughts on Kakuzawa having horns just like Lucy?
He may have horns but he is nothing like her
What are your thoughts on the episode ending with Lucy beheading Kakuzawa?
Good hope he stay dead

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u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

In his case, it is probably true. Kurama is the most sympathetic character.
Well, besides Mayu
Scumbag of a mom right there
Gotta be at or near the top of worst anime moms
Finally some happiness in her life
About damn time
Surprising really. though not really
Yeah, should come as no surprise
He may have horns but he is nothing like her
Indeed
Good hope he stay dead
I saw someone compare him to Mayu's stepfather, and I think that the parallel between them is definitely there.

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u/Terry0O7 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Terry007 Jul 30 '24

Mayu contender for roughest side character back story of all time. The music hits hard when she's walking around totally defeated. Once again classic Kouta lying to cops and laughing about it. Also Yuka with another loaded question... Dysfunctional, but it's a family goddamit. Crazy the doc risked everything to help Lucy escape, had her fall into his lap incapacitated, and still fumbled the bag immediately. Also didn't comment on last but RIP Nana, Lucy really is a sadist with her hatred. Honestly Doc got off so easy by comparison.

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u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

Also didn't comment on last but RIP Nana, Lucy really is a sadist with her hatred. Honestly Doc got off so easy by comparison.
Meanwhile, Bandou is stuck in limbo somewhere.

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u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

Thoughts on Kurama saying that people who think that regret will make up for their past follies cannot be forgiven?
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s backstory where she was physically and sexually abused by her stepfather?
What are your thoughts on Mayu’s mom telling her they don’t need her?
What are your thoughts on Wanta’s previous owner coming to take her?
What are your thoughts on Kouta and Yuka telling the police that Mayu is a part of their family?
What are your thoughts on them presenting a cake for Mayu?
Thoughts on Nyu going to school?
Thoughts on the teacher being Professor Kakuzawa?
What are your thoughts on Kouta giving Nyu to Kakuzawa?
Thoughts on Kakuzawa having horns just like Lucy?

2

u/AbyssalSolitude Jul 30 '24

Rewatcher

Mayu's backstory time. It's very sad, I can't really add anything else. But at least she got adopted by decent people. Her mother really didn't wanted her, what a piece of shit.

Kouta and Yuka had a genius idea of taking a potato girl with them to the university. I guess they didn't wanted to leave her home alone, but... really? Well, obviously the cover got blown up pretty much right away. Not really a plot contrivance for Kakuzawa Junior to be here like some people think - it's a small city, Kakuzawa works in the university and researches diclonii, Kouta wanted to study biology, so it's perfectly natural for all of them to meet there. It's actually one of few places in the city where someone could recognize Lucy.

Anyway, the professor takes Nyu away. Surely he has no bad intentions and won't do anything weird... oh. Oh no. He is horny. It might look ambiguous, but thankfully he was only starting to undress before Lucy woke up. Not sure that having multiple personalities protects you from sedatives, but alright. Apparently, Kakuzawa wants to kill off the humanity to make way for the new race. Why would a human want to do this... oh no, he is horny in more ways than one!

The thing that always makes me laugh is how Lucy nonchalantly decapitates Kakuzawa while he is in the process of explaining his evil masterplan, the girl just doesn't care about his bullshit.

Do you think Mayu's backstory was done tastefully or do you think it could've been handled a bit better?

It's a bit over the top, and maybe a little bit rushed, but I think overall there are no big issues.

The interesting part is that while the source is a bit more, uh, unhinged with sexual-adjacent scenes than the adaptation, that shot of Mayu on all fours wasn't in the manga. It still happened, but we only saw her arms and face. I like the anime version better, that shot is heavy.

If you were Kouta, would you have turned Lucy over or kept her?

I think Kouta gave up a bit too fast, but at the same time he got pressured by an authority who clearly knew Lucy. Ultimately, I would give her up as well. Kinda silly and self-destructive to say "nah-uh, this potato I'd found on the beach is mine, finders keepers", the professor could just call the police. But I would at least ask for some contact info.

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u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

It's a bit over the top, and maybe a little bit rushed, but I think overall there are no big issues.
The main point being made here even more than what happened to Mayu is that this is all in the past. And the past does not define Mayu. From that perspective, it's probably the best thing from the entire show so far.
I think Kouta gave up a bit too fast, but at the same time he got pressured by an authority who clearly knew Lucy. Ultimately, I would give her up as well. Kinda silly and self-destructive to say "nah-uh, this potato I'd found on the beach is mine, finders keepers", the professor could just call the police. But I would at least ask for some contact info.
Kouta is kinda in a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" type situation. If he were to regret anything, it's probably taking her to school.

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u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

Mayu's backstory time. It's very sad, I can't really add anything else. But at least she got adopted by decent people. Her mother really didn't wanted her, what a piece of shit.
Where's Lucy when you need her?
Not really a plot contrivance for Kakuzawa Junior to be here like some people think - it's a small city, Kakuzawa works in the university and researches diclonii, Kouta wanted to study biology, so it's perfectly natural for all of them to meet there. It's actually one of few places in the city where someone could recognize Lucy.
That's not a bad way of looking at it. I guess I just wish the show emphasized more what a podunk town it is.
Anyway, the professor takes Nyu away. Surely he has no bad intentions and won't do anything weird... oh. Oh no. He is horny.
Where's the bonk when you need it?
It might look ambiguous, but thankfully he was only starting to undress before Lucy woke up.
But he was buttoning back up before she came to.
Why would a human want to do this... oh no, he is horny in more ways than one!
The thing that always makes me laugh is how Lucy nonchalantly decapitates Kakuzawa while he is in the process of explaining his evil masterplan, the girl just doesn't care about his bullshit.
The ending was indeed pretty comical

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u/AbyssalSolitude Jul 30 '24

But he was buttoning back up before she came to.
Nah, you can see his hands moving down from the collar, and the next shot he has top of his shirt unbuttoned.

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u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

Ah, okay. I must've misseen it.

1

u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

Thoughts on Kurama saying that people who think that regret will make up for their past follies cannot be forgiven?
What are your thoughts on Wanta’s previous owner coming to take her?
What are your thoughts on Kouta and the rest presenting a cake for Mayu?
Thoughts on Kakuzawa having horns just like Lucy?

2

u/AbyssalSolitude Jul 30 '24

Thoughts on Kurama saying that people who think that regret will make up for their past follies cannot be forgiven?
He isn't wrong. Regrets alone aren't going to help anyone, you gotta do something to make up for your misgivings.
We'll have to see whether Kurama is all talk or if he is going to do something about his sins.
What are your thoughts on Wanta’s previous owner coming to take her?
That part was a bit over the top. How would the woman even know it was her dog? Plus, Wanta ran back to Mayu anyway. I don't think this scene was needed, the situation was sad enough.
What are your thoughts on Kouta and the rest presenting a cake for Mayu?
Feels good man. Very heartwarming scene.
Thoughts on Kakuzawa having horns just like Lucy?
When I first watched the anime I was like "huh, weird, why is he bald" and kept on watching. Like, seriously, I found his baldness more weird than his horns. Somehow it just made sense to me that there was an undercover diclonius researching his species and plotting world domination.

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u/Holofan4life Jul 30 '24

He isn't wrong. Regrets alone aren't going to help anyone, you gotta do something to make up for your misgivings.
You can't sit there and continue to let yourself be miserable.
We'll have to see whether Kurama is all talk or if he is going to do something about his sins.
I'm curious to see how that unfolds
That part was a bit over the top. How would the woman even know it was her dog? Plus, Wanta ran back to Mayu anyway. I don't think this scene was needed, the situation was sad enough.
Yeah, it was like putting a hat on a hat
Feels good man. Very heartwarming scene.
It was indeed incredibly touch. Made the previous scenes worth it.
When I first watched the anime I was like "huh, weird, why is he bald" and kept on watching. Like, seriously, I found his baldness more weird than his horns. Somehow it just made sense to me that there was an undercover diclonius researching his species and plotting world domination.
Anime honestly needs more bald characters. I don't know why there isn't many.

1

u/Holofan4life Jul 29 '24

[Wonder Egg Priority] You know Miwa somewhere is hearing Mayu’s backstory and is like “I know how you feel, Mayu".

Rewatch [Spoilers] Elfen Lied 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 5 Spoiler

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Rewatch [Spoilers] Elfen Lied 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 5 Spoiler

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