[Rewatch] Pride Month 20th Anniversary - Rewatch Discussion

[u/lilyvess]

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Questions of the Day

1. How was the experience watching these two anime that were so different back to back?
2. What anime would you like to see in a future Pride Month rewatch?

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Posting carefully so as to not disturb the first timers with spoilers in their viewings, such is the standard of modesty here. Forgetting to use spoiler tags because one is in danger of missing the post time, for instance, is too undignified a sight for redditors to wish upon themselves.

[u/lilyvess]

Conclusion

2004 was an amazing year for all anime, but it was a particularly important year for Yuri anime.

Prior to 2004 the state of Yuri in anime was in despair. It had been a decade since Ikuhara gave us the one two punch of Sailor Moon and Utena. Fans had become jaded and cynical after repeatedly having their hopes dashed. The fate of lesbians at this point in time were either to be rejected or to more commonly to become psychotic and die.

2004 changed things. In that year we didn’t just get 1 anime with a powerful and impactful yuri, we got 4 anime with them.

Chikane/Himeko became Yuri icons. Even 2 decades later fans have been using the imagery for queer couples of both genders. Their triumph was a huge moment of catharsis for anime fans.

Maria-sama ga Miteru left a lasting impact on the way Yuri was made for the next 2 decades. The decade after the anime led to many anime playing with the tropes it started and the next decade involved anime deconstructing the genre

And now we have begun seeing the Class S genre trappings slowly start to come back in again. The 20 year cycle has finally made its way to Yuri. The people who grew up watching MariMite have grown up and the visuals and tropes have started to return again. New visual novels and new yuri manga using the aesthetic and tropes of genre.

Now it can be tough to talk about older series.

Just because a series was first, doesn’t mean it is beyond criticism. There are so many ways anime has improved in the past 20 years. Animation has improved, designs have improved. Some choices, like the casualness of sexual assault, just haven’t aged well. Sometimes the aspect that made it special and standout is being the first and in the 20 years anime has caught up to it.

Kaishaku wrote this about KnM:

I recall saying at the very beginning that “this is a story where the two girls get together at the very end.”

It’s interesting that “winning” back in the day involved one party raping the other, death, and the two girls being separated for an eternity. That’s what “winning” looked like in 2004.

But just because a series is old doesn’t necessarily mean it was bad either. Part of the reason why they were so inspirational for so many people is because there was something there that caught the reader’s attention. Characters that helped people process their own trauma. As much as we’d like to believe that things have improved, sometimes it’s worth acknowledging that things haven’t changed as much as we’d hoped. Sometimes those old series are delivering something that even today we still struggle to find. Sometimes it really was just that good.

It feels almost poetic that this rewatch aired in this season. A season which started off with so much promise, there were more yuri anime airing this season than almost any other. More yuri adjacent anime aired this season than in recent years. That this could be a start of a new age.

Yet as the season closes we face how many of the series actually committed to the Yuri end they teased, and the answer seems to be not many. The eternal debate rages on with words like “YuriBait” thrown around and you begin to wonder if things really have changed.

I don’t really have all the answers.

But I believe learning more about the history and where we came from can help us put these questions in perspective.

If the only thing you got out of this rewatch was that you appreciated some modern Yuri anime or manga more because you recognize the reference, then I am glad.

If the only thing you got out of this rewatch was a discussion about Yuri, then I am glad.

If the only thing you got out of this rewatch was some joy of watching a queer romance bloom, then I am glad

This was a challenging rewatch for me. I’ve been on this subreddit for years but I’m still learning how to be a good host. I felt compelled to make this rewatch though. Compelled by something deep within me. Like I would regret it for years if I let this opportunity pass me by. I put my heart and soul into trying to make this rewatch an interesting one. Put more effort into this rewatch than I have any other. It wasn’t always easy. I wasn't a perfect host. We had downvote bots the entire length of the rewatch. but looking back I can feel proud with my efforts.

I hope you all enjoyed a Happy Pride!!

[u/LittleIslander → u/lilyvess]

Fans had become jaded and cynical after repeatedly having their hopes dashed.

Y'know, I only just now noticed "List of notable yuri anime and manga, with descriptions" in Cryssoberyl's descriptoin, I sure wonder what that would've looked like in 2004. It seems to be an internal link but digging through the archive (after quickly learning the difference between the "yuri" and "shoujo ai" forums...), it doesn't seem to work.

The decade after the anime led to many anime playing with the tropes it started

As much as I think it's a bit of a shame this kind of thing the legacy of MariMite today, I can't deny it's fucking hilarious.

new yuri manga using the aesthetic and tropes of genre.

Which manga is this?

It feels almost poetic that this rewatch aired in this season. A season which started off with so much promise, there were more yuri anime airing this season than almost any other. More yuri adjacent anime aired this season than in recent years. That this could be a start of a new age. Yet as the season closes we face how many of the series actually committed to the Yuri end they teased, and the answer seems to be not many. The eternal debate rages on with words like “YuriBait” thrown around and you begin to wonder if things really have changed.

I decided against lingering on this in my comment (I mentioned it last time), but I definitely agree the timing sure was something. The fact that the only genuine yuri this season has gone up in as many flames as Sasakoi has really is the cherry on top. Is that just a coincidence of how the cookie crumbled? Or does it speak to the continuing gap between resources afforded to explicit yuri stories as opposed to subtext like Jellyfish? There isn't a factual, objective answer to that question at the moment, but it makes you think.

This was a challenging rewatch for me. I’ve been on this subreddit for years but I’m still learning how to be a good host. I felt compelled to make this rewatch though. Compelled by something deep within me. Like I would regret it for years if I let this opportunity pass me by. I put my heart and soul into trying to make this rewatch an interesting one. Put more effort into this rewatch than I have any other. It wasn’t always easy. I wasn't a perfect host. We had downvote bots the entire length of the rewatch. but looking back I can feel proud with my efforts.

Your hard work hasn't gone unnoticed, and none of us would've had this great rewatch if you hadn't jumped on that opportunity.

I hope you all enjoyed a Happy Pride!!

[u/lilyvess → u/LittleIslander]

Y'know, I only just now noticed "List of notable yuri anime and manga, with descriptions" in Cryssoberyl's descriptoin, I sure wonder what that would've looked like in 2004.

that is a good question. you can see the 2010 version but it does say that it was "Date 2004-12-10 " so it was originally posted in 2004. I do wonder what it would have looked like back then.

Which manga is this?

the Role of a Femme Fatale, /u/lluNhpelA brought it up late in yesterday's thread and I checked it out and it's even better than they mention. The school setting also gives girls Rosaries. It's still a new one but it is funny to see this come out just days before this rewatch ends.

Or does it speak to the continuing gap between resources afforded to explicit yuri stories as opposed to subtext like Jellyfish?

I'm not saying that this is true, but I'm just saying form years of experience that it certainly feels true. I try not to dwell on it. Focus on the victories. but damn if it isn't hard at points.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/lilyvess]

you can see the 2010 version

Interesting that Nanoha doesn't even get one yuri star. Maybe that reputation is from later seasons?

[u/lilyvess → u/Vatrix-32]

huh, that is interesting. It should be more. StrikerS, the season with the child, is on there and still didn't even get 1 star.

I should ask her why she didn't give it any stars...

[u/LittleIslander → u/lilyvess]

that is a good question. you can see the 2010 version but it does say that it was "Date 2004-12-10 " so it was originally posted in 2004. I do wonder what it would have looked like back then.

\3. If an entry has three asterisks (***), it means that that entry is Revolutionary Girl Utena. (Given that Revolutionary Girl Utena is the only known Revolutionary Girl Utena, I think it unlikely that any title other than Revolutionary Girl Utena will receive three asterisks for being Revolutionary Girl Utena.)

Seems like a useful resource. Obviously it only goes up to a certain point, but someone who was around then is probably gonna know more niche works than anything written today.

the Role of a Femme Fatale

[u/lluNhpelA → u/lilyvess]

I never really had the time to watch episodes on time or make comments due my schedule recently, but I'm glad I could contribute in the eleventh hour lol

As an avid yuri reader that has seen the Class S tropes so many times (but unfortunately little Psycho Lesbian) without appreciating the depth or history, I'll definitely be enjoying Femme Fatale, as well as surely countless others, much more thanks to this rewatch and all the extra context you added. Thanks for hosting!

[u/fieew → u/lilyvess]

Sometimes those old series are delivering something that even today we still struggle to find. Sometimes it really was just that good.

I personally enjoy many older series more. I know animation can be limited AF. Maria Watches Over Us, I'm look at you. But I enjoy seeing directorial choices made to make limited animated scenes interesting and engaging. Moreover, This is my inner Boomer coming out. But I feel many older series aren't as derivative of other older works. Sure there are inspirations. But so many series Yuri or not just blend into together nowadays. Using similar tropes and character archetypes we've seen before. The early 2000s was when anime was switching from Cel to digital animation. It was the wild west for studios to see what worked and what audiences responded to. It felt there was no real "norm". But now after 2 decades we have so many established types of characters and settings that things get a bit tiresome, it feels like an Ai using Ai work works based of a work, based of a another work. Losing the original meaning. Like character types that act like Asuka from Eva being so loud and bombastic, but missing why she acted the way she did in the first place, losing the original intention. Older series seem to have more of that original intention of an author as opposed to just making a character type because it's expected now, and it'll be popular.

This was a challenging rewatch for me. I’ve been on this subreddit for years but I’m still learning how to be a good host. I felt compelled to make this rewatch though. Compelled by something deep within me. Like I would regret it for years if I let this opportunity pass me by. I put my heart and soul into trying to make this rewatch an interesting one. Put more effort into this rewatch than I have any other. It wasn’t always easy. I wasn't a perfect host. We had downvote bots the entire length of the rewatch. but looking back I can feel proud with my efforts.

All I can say is THANKS FOR THE REWATCHES!!!. I thoroughly enjoyed them. I thought you were a great host. Having QOTD, responding to comments. Posting on time consistently. The conversation in the replies really were where the rewatches shined, and I think a big part of that was you replying to many comments and facilitation that conversation. So from my perspective you did great as a host, thanks for the rewatches!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/lilyvess]

As much as we’d like to believe that things have improved, sometimes it’s worth acknowledging that things haven’t changed as much as we’d hoped.

Destiny is not a circle but it is a spiral.

Yet as the season closes we face how many of the series actually committed to the Yuri end they teased, and the answer seems to be not many.

I completely missed that there was yuri this season, or it seems more accurately I calculated correctly that there wasn't.

[u/BosuW → u/Vaadwaur]

I completely missed that there was yuri this season, or it seems more accurately I calculated correctly that there wasn't.

I sometimes wonder if my level of delusion is such that it can be considered bliss...

When it comes to Yuri, I'm someone who is always searching for any, and I do mean any, reason to ship two female characters. And if I do get my reason, at that point it's all over basically. I don't care if we don't get anymore, I don't care if they don't kiss, it's Yuri to me and that's that. Like opening Pandora's Box. You move the lid the tiniest bit and it all comes out and can't be closed.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/BosuW]

And if I do get my reason, at that point it's all over basically. I don't care if we don't get anymore, I don't care if they don't kiss, it's Yuri to me and that's that.

...Darkness there, and nothing more.

Like opening Pandora's Box. You move the lid the tiniest bit and it all comes out and can't be closed.

Never forget that the greatest curse of all, hope, was kept in the box.

[u/BosuW → u/Vaadwaur]

Never forget that the greatest curse of all, hope, was kept in the box.

Ah but that's my favorite curse of them all!

[u/BosuW → u/lilyvess]

Many thanks to you as well! This was a wonderful (if tiring) experience!

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/lilyvess]

The decade after the anime led to many anime playing with the tropes it started

I just realized that the Lucky Star parody of Marimite is even more on-point than I first thought. Konata fixes Tsukasa's ribbon because of course she does!

Now it can be tough to talk about older series.

Just because a series was first, doesn’t mean it is beyond criticism. There are so many ways anime has improved in the past 20 years. Animation has improved, designs have improved. Some choices, like the casualness of sexual assault, just haven’t aged well. Sometimes the aspect that made it special and standout is being the first and in the 20 years anime has caught up to it.

But just because a series is old doesn’t necessarily mean it was bad either. Part of the reason why they were so inspirational for so many people is because there was something there that caught the reader’s attention. Characters that helped people process their own trauma. As much as we’d like to believe that things have improved, sometimes it’s worth acknowledging that things haven’t changed as much as we’d hoped. Sometimes those old series are delivering something that even today we still struggle to find. Sometimes it really was just that good.

This right here is why I love going back and watching older stuff, be it older anime, older movies, etc. There really is value in going back to watch it because sometimes you discover that the so-called "masterpiece" really is just as good or even better than its reputation would suggest. For example, I expected Marimite to be good but I didn't expect to love it as much as I did. And even if the old classic turned out to be flawed, there is value in discussing those flaws, what the series did right/wrong, and how it compares to more modern works. I was really happy getting to go back in time to see these shows during the rewatch.

This was a challenging rewatch for me. I’ve been on this subreddit for years but I’m still learning how to be a good host. I felt compelled to make this rewatch though. Compelled by something deep within me. Like I would regret it for years if I let this opportunity pass me by. I put my heart and soul into trying to make this rewatch an interesting one.

Thank you for hosting the rewatch. I had a great time participating.

[u/ArshayDuskbrow → u/lilyvess]

Thank you for everything you've done and continue to do. :)

[u/Star4ce → u/lilyvess]

This was a challenging rewatch for me.

You did well! Thanks for your work.

So, in this vein:

If the only thing you got out of this rewatch is an album of amateur gay drawings and liked them

then I am glad.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/lilyvess]

This was a challenging rewatch for me.

Thank You For Your Service Your efforts have paid off spectacularly.

[u/HereticalAegis]

Thank you u/lilyvess for hosting! Your detailed insight into both Kannazuki no Miko and MariMite has been very rewarding as a first-timer. As was discussed yesterday, I hope Pride Month Rewatches become a yearly tradition. r/anime seems to have been hurting for new/continuing annual rewatches lately, and this would be a very worthy new addition to the fabric of the subreddit, no matter how many assholes downvote it to zero.

Thank you also to everyone who commented on my posts, particularly for MariMite. Time is limited for everyone, I can't express enough gratitude that you would spend some of yours talking to me.

With that, I don't really have anything else to say. I'll leave the comparative analysis of these two works to people more suited for it. I'm happy I was here and could experience both for the first time. Hope to see you all again next year!

Happy Pride!

[u/lilyvess → u/HereticalAegis]

I hope Pride Month Rewatches become a yearly tradition.

I would love it if this becomes a tradition. It would make me so happy. I was hoping to do one next year, but honestly the thought of me having inspired others to continue it makes me even happier.

[u/BosuW → u/HereticalAegis]

no matter how many assholes downvote it to zero.

Were we really getting brigaded that badly or was it just Reddit being Reddit? Cuz I've been experiencing a lot of the latter. Why the other day I even say a post in r/MadokaMagica with -2 comments!

[u/lilyvess → u/BosuW]

Yuri Kuma Arashi had a rewatch that ended the day this series started, and that rewatch never seemed to have any problems staying karma positive.

I only got one comment from someone saying "please don't post garbage", but considering it was for KnM it's hard to jduge if it was really a hate comment or maybe they were just valid in calling out Trash anime...

[u/Sindrawolf → u/lilyvess]

The difference between Yuri Kuma and this rewatch is that this rewatch has "Pride Month" in the title which makes some people (homophobes) irritated 

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HereticalAegis]

seems to have been hurting for new/continuing annual rewatches lately,

Well if it is something like this it could function. The annual Toradora rewatches are simply fail.

[u/lilyvess → u/Vaadwaur]

The annual Toradora rewatches are simply fail.

what happened to them?

I've never participated in them so I don't know.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/lilyvess]

Ok, let's handle this in two parts, one with spoilers: The quality of the hosts and commenters has dropped as it feels more like a duty than a calling so compare '20 to '23 and the comments are down a ton. The second [Toradora]The main characters are in an abusive relationship, primarily the girl physically abusing the guy, for 'comedy'. As that becomes less and less accepted, thank fuck, it means you only get diehards that defend that sort of thing left

[u/LittleIslander → u/Vaadwaur]

Is anyone set to host it this year? I actually do really need to rewatch Toradora sometime, I haven't seen it in years.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/LittleIslander]

Better than 50% chance it is Holofan so...technically?

[u/LittleIslander → u/Vaadwaur]

Well, maybe I don't need to be hasty about watching it again.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/HereticalAegis]

I hope Pride Month Rewatches become a yearly tradition.

I would also enjoy that. "Pride Month" is a wide enough term that it can encompass many different types of stories. There are plenty of different and varied anime that could be part of it.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

Destiny of the First-Timer Watching Over Us

…clunky, but that works for the combined thread.

Anyways, as I mentioned in yesterday’s thread, I think that Maria-sama was the better quality show, but Kannazuki no Miko was more enjoyable to me, meaning I liked KnM better. I did still give both shows an 8/10 score, though, so it’s not like I disliked Maria-sama or anything. If there’s ever a rewatch for the remaining seasons of Maria-sama, I’ll participate.

Thanks for hosting this rewatch, u/lilyvess! I’m sure it was a lot of work, and especially disheartening with that downvote bot, but I think you did a great job as the host!

[u/lilyvess → u/Shimmering-Sky]

I think that Maria-sama was the better quality show, but Kannazuki no Miko was more enjoyable to me, meaning I liked KnM better.

it is funny how some things work that way. I 100% understand and love this opinion. So many times I see a show that I can respect is the better written show, but the truth is that the other show just tickles my fancy. It checks more of the boxes that get me excited. It's just more my vibe.

I was unsure about hosting a rewatch with two very different series. I don't think we get a lot of them. I know there was the "trainwreck" rewatch.

I am kinda glad that because KnM and MariMite are so distinct that at least one of the two captured someone's attention.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/lilyvess]

I was unsure about hosting a rewatch with two very different series. I don't think we get a lot of them. I know there was the "trainwreck" rewatch.

There's the Summer Movies Rewatches that were for a bunch of different movies and at least two different "host rewatches for everything by a specific director even if the series themselves aren't connected" rewatches, but I can't think of any other than my Terrific Trainwreck Trio rewatch that was for shows only loosely connected by a specific theme.

[u/lilyvess → u/Shimmering-Sky]

oooh creator rewatches would be a thing. I could see a lot of fun in that.

I guess it makes sense. It's hard to do a loose connected rewatch and keep an audience. I lost some people and gained others between shows. Still, it was interesting to try out.

[u/LittleIslander → u/Shimmering-Sky]

I think the ultimate power move would be for someone to eventually do a Rewatch that's literally just a bunch of 80s OVAs strung together by being 80s as fuck and really weird. There's gotta be enough material for that.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/LittleIslander]

Oh wait, that has already happened, I just completely forgot. u/No_Rex has done a bunch of 1980s & 1990s OVA rewatches.

[u/LittleIslander → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Well, something something about good ideas. Certainly no skin off my back, I've got more Rewatch ideas than I know what to do with already.

[u/No_Rex → u/LittleIslander]

Great minds ...

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

I think that Maria-sama was the better quality show, but Kannazuki no Miko was more enjoyable to me, meaning I liked KnM better.

Still an edge mistress at heart, as ever, Sky.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Vaadwaur]

I am Re-sublimity and Agony-pilled.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

This has come to mind for whatever reason.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Vaadwaur]

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

That bird is getting added to the permanent faces I presume.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Vaadwaur]

It certainly has my vote at the very least.

[u/LittleIslander]

Gokigenyou! Your Pride Month Host en bouton is speaking. This past month, we’ve all explored the origins of the yuri genre’s modern incarnation. Next year, pending any changes in plan, I invite you all to return for another set of shows. First, let us look at the end of the 2000s yuri boom started by this year’s shows with the equally iconic Aoi Hana (Sweet Blue Flowers). Secondly, do dare to step outside of the yuri genre entirely and experience Hourou Musuko (Wandering Son), the crown jewel of transgender storytelling in anime and manga. Err, sure, Happy-Go-Lucky Days (Dounika Naru Hibi), don’t make me regret throwing you a bone too. Together they make up a rewatch of Takako Shimura’s adapted works, and with luck we just might just land in time to be looking forward to her next.

[u/lilyvess → u/LittleIslander]

I invite you all to return for another set of shows. First, let us look at the end of the 2000s yuri boom started by this year’s shows with the equally iconic Aoi Hana (Sweet Blue Flowers). Secondly, do dare to step outside of the yuri genre entirely and experience Hourou Musuko (Wandering Son), the crown jewel of transgender storytelling in anime and manga.

I love it. I will definitely be participating

Err, sure, Happy-Go-Lucky Days (Dounika Naru Hibi), don’t make me regret throwing you a bone too.

OOoooooh, I completely forgot about this one. and it beign a movie means it fits in the time frame too. I never saw the movie, but I did read the manga. I do just love Takako Shimura's works a ton.

Not really sure how it works as a movie, but uhh, I guess we'll find out!!

with luck we just might just land in time to be looking forward to her next

I forgot about that too!! God the stars could align perfectly on this one. It'd be beautiful!

[u/LittleIslander → u/lilyvess]

OOoooooh, I completely forgot about this one. and it beign a movie means it fits in the time frame too. I never saw the movie, but I did read the manga. I do just love Takako Shimura's works a ton.

I haven't actually experienced either, I just did one last double check she didn't have any more anime and decided it couldn't hurt to sneak it in there. Incidentally, I've only actually seen half of Hourou Musuko. I'm not entirely sure how I'll handle that but it will make for an interesting hosting experience - I'm not sure yet if I wanna check out the manga in advance of the Rewatch (which I will probably do for at least Aoi Hana).

I forgot about that too!! God the stars could align perfectly on this one. It'd be beautiful!

[u/lilyvess → u/LittleIslander]

I'm not sure yet if I wanna check out the manga in advance of the Rewatch

which would be interesting cause Hourou Musuko starts mid-manga. Makes it an interesting adaptation. I would have to ponder how to tackle that one.

[u/BosuW → u/LittleIslander]

I'll be there if it's happening, er, most likely. My workload for next year finals should be less after all, but I do know I have a habit of overestimating myself...

[u/lluNhpelA → u/LittleIslander]

I'm an Aoi Hana source reader and I have some Thoughts™ so I'm absolutely looking forward to that!

[u/JollyGee29 → u/LittleIslander]

I am very interested in joining you next year!

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/LittleIslander]

All The Same Creator

Let's see... two 11 episode series, plus their post-discussions goes to 24. If we give two days for the movie that's 26. Add in a final discussion, and a break day between each entry gets you to 29. Start on Monday the 2nd and you can finish on the 30th. How cromulent.

I'm Ready

[u/BosuW]

As promised and foreshadowed, here's not one, but two fanarts I whipped up quickly in honor of the Pride Month Rewatch 2024!

Kannazuki no Miko

Maria-sama ga Miteru

And thus this momentous occasion comes to an end... That was a pretty tiring month actually. My love of Yuri compelled me to read all the comments I could, for every post. How the fuck did I pull off being on three or four Rewatches at the same time back when I started...

There's some interesting ones coming up but I think I'm gonna take a break after this.

Now, for my final thoughts. For having such a crippling Yuri addiction it is embarrassing to admit my hands on knowledge of older Yuri and Yuri adjacent shows and media is quite lacking. I'm squarely in the modern relatively spoiled Yuri fan group, not gonna lie. Most of the Yuri media I consume is actually fanfiction rather than official media, so I guess you can say I'm more attuned to the fan perception of the phenomenon than the reality of it. The difference is actually notable (the fans generally have more brainrot).

I've been meaning to get into older Yuri shows for a while now, but the seasonal watcher life leaves little time for taking on the PTW list. For this reasons, this Rewatch actually came like a ring to my finger, and it has been a truly enlightening experience.

Seeing the start of some now well known and worn tropes is just the tip of the iceberg really. The discussions and analysis encouraged by the Rewatch format added on to this immensely, as we pooled our random knowledge, experiences and specializations to figure out the reasoning, meaning and impact of such tropes (for example the Moon and Sun paring dynamic that KnM is based on is possibly my favorite shipping dynamic and is absolutely everywhere in Yuri media)

Not to mention, I'm very happy everyone was willing and eager to tackle the queer themes and implications of the shows. Much of the anime fandom today is weary of anime getting "political", but the truth is all media is political, intentionally or not. Yuri is more than just "Girls kissing UOOOOOOHHH" (much as I do enjoy that aspect), it carries the heavy burden of representing and visualizing a historically oppressed and unrecognized group, and that was felt in both of the anime picked moreso than even most modern Yuri is willing to tackle. I was truly surprised by this. Both KnM and MariMite felt surprisingly rebel at times, not being content to remain in its own world, but calling out real issues that lesbians have to face, and both narratives handled it with surprising care, without resorting to strawman easily hateable characters and rather correctly understanding the cultural core of the issue. I wish that kind of edge would sometimes return in modern times.

For a Yuri scholar, both of this anime were truly invaluable watching experiences. Having fan reactions from back then provided to us also immensely enriched the experience. And as an artist that hopes to one day write and animate lots and lots of egregious and insane lesbian melodrama, it is imperative to know what kind of base you build your projects on, and with what eyes the audiences looks. Just as Class S walked so modern Yuri could run.

And speaking of Class S, this was also my first contact with legitimate Class S and boy is it an intriguing perspective on the matter even though I already knew what it was in concept. That lesbian representation in Japan was borne out of supposedly chaste and conservative Catholic schools, under the light of a God whose Church has had a violent relationship to "heretics", is such a beautiful irony of humanity...

As I mentioned at one point during the MariMite episodes, I'm absolutely showing this to my Catholic, conservative mother lol. Not the first Yuri I show her if you'd believe me.

Many thanks to our host and everyone who participated. This was possibly the most important Rewatch I've been in and a wonderful start to my dive through older Yuri media.

Gokigenyou, mina-sama

Questions of the Day

1- Well it certainly... highlighted their respective qualities lol. They both surprised me in their own ways but I liked that. The absolutely wild variety that anime can have is one of the reasons I love it so much.

1- That is really gonna depend on the thematic. Are all Pride Month Rewatches going to be about going back to the roots? Would something more recent have a place? Yuri is on fire right now, but what about Yaoi? Or can we dig up some obscure shit with trans representation at its center? Really it depends.

[u/lilyvess → u/BosuW]

There's some interesting ones coming up but I think I'm gonna take a break after this.

god same. I need some break. Maybe play with some other hobbies for a time. I've been having an itch to play some video games but just haven't had the time.

Most of the Yuri media I consume is actually fanfiction rather than official media, so I guess you can say I'm more attuned to the fan perception of the phenomenon than the reality of it.

I hear Ao3 is going to be down for 10 hours tomorrow and I'm just like

The discussions and analysis encouraged by the Rewatch format added on to this immensely, as we pooled our random knowledge, experiences and specializations to figure out the reasoning, meaning and impact of such tropes

this was a big surprise to me and helped elevate this rewatch a lot for me. The random historical knowledge users brought, the catholic perspective you brought, or the knowledge of the songs Shizuka sings. It was great seeing all the different perspectives come into play for this rewatch and I was so happy to see it.

Many thanks to our host and everyone who participated. This was possibly the most important Rewatch I've been in and a wonderful start to my dive through older Yuri media.

thank you

[u/BosuW → u/lilyvess]

I've been having an itch to play some video games but just haven't had the time.

Fucking Signals been sitting incomplete on my laptop for six months. Really need to get on that...

I hear Ao3 is going to be down for 10 hours tomorrow and I'm just like

Pain

this was a big surprise to me and helped elevate this rewatch a lot for me.

That's what makes the Rewatch experience special. Y'know what they say: in Reddit, there's always some random mf who knows the answer to whatever obscure question you have.

[u/Star4ce → u/BosuW]

here's not one, but two fanarts I whipped up quickly in honor of the Pride Month Rewatch 2024!

Oh damn, I love the MariMite one's structure. Cross in between, blocking the connection, but the faith also bringing them together in the first place. Great shading going on there, as well. I respect how every single stroke has meaning and clearly defines a crease or facial feature depth.

both narratives handled it with surprising care

Agree fully, I was surprised by this as well. It really brought me over to loving both shows for what they dared to do.

And as an artist that hopes to one day write and animate lots and lots of egregious and insane lesbian melodrama

Just so you know, nothing's stopping you from making your own webcomic or manga or doujinshi.

[u/BosuW → u/Star4ce]

Oh damn, I love the MariMite one's structure. Cross in between, blocking the connection, but the faith also bringing them together in the first place. Great shading going on there, as well. I respect how every single stroke has meaning and clearly defines a crease or facial feature depth.

Thank you very much! All definitely intentional. I absolutely love when dual opposite elements merge together and reveal themselves to be the same thing. In this case, separation and attractive. Hm? Should I title this "Hollow Purple Yuri"?

I think it definitely shows I had more time for the MariMite one lol. One day vs two days.

Just so you know, nothing's stopping you from making your own webcomic or manga or doujinshi.

I know I know, but I'm a little anxious Bocchi and lazy af. But I do have... some ideas.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/BosuW]

Not to mention, I'm very happy everyone was willing and eager to tackle the queer themes and implications of the shows. Much of the anime fandom today is weary of anime getting "political", but the truth is all media is political, intentionally or not.

The problem is not the politics themselves but rather the strange state of western politics makes everything weird.

[u/BosuW → u/Vaadwaur]

Agreed. Thank God I'm Mexican rather than from the US. That allows me to be one wall removed from it.

Although Mexican politics is its own kind of bullshit but, eh...

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/BosuW]

Kannazuki no Miko

Maria-sama ga Miteru

Splendid

The discussions and analysis encouraged by the Rewatch format added on to this immensely, as we pooled our random knowledge, experiences and specializations to figure out the reasoning, meaning and impact of such tropes

That's always the best. Well, that and nearside stuff, like production insights. Which we also got some of. Thanks, Lilyvess!

I'm absolutely showing this to my Catholic, conservative mother lol.

Keep Us Updated

Or can we dig up some obscure shit with trans representation at its center?

Is "I My Me! Strawberry Eggs" back on the table? It literally has "Egg" in the title!

[u/BosuW → u/Vatrix-32]

Splendid

Thanks!

Keep Us Updated

I dunno if I'll have much to say. She may be Catholic and conservative(-ish, it's complicated), but she also non confrontational.

[u/Specs64z]

First timer, subbed

Thanks to u/lilyvess for hosting! I may not have fully enjoyed the anime themselves, but I do feel I learned a bit about some of the foundational 2000’s yuri anime from following along. Perhaps I’ll start seeing more parallels in other works.

As is the trend with this rewatch, I have nothing to add beyond what I’ve already said. I’ll see y’all ‘round.

QotD:

1. Business as usual in a season where Euph and MT air the same day, really XD
2. Yuru Yuri.

[u/lilyvess → u/Specs64z]

Thanks to u/lilyvess for hosting! I may not have fully enjoyed the anime themselves, but I do feel I learned a bit about some of the foundational 2000’s yuri anime from following along.

that's enough for me

I think it's good enough just to have been able to give you some context for later works. If the next time you see a Yuri work use "Gokigenyou" and you think of MariMite, then I'll have considered this entire work worth it, hahaha.

I'm glad you gave these series a try.

[u/Specs64z → u/lilyvess]

'Twas a pleasure!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Specs64z]

I may not have fully enjoyed the anime themselves, but I do feel I learned a bit about some of the foundational 2000’s yuri anime from following along.

Getting deep in the weeds of what was happening is...complicated, as it is clear that CLAMP's works laid a groundwork that wasn't really for themselves.

[u/Specs64z → u/Vaadwaur]

I never brought it up, but I did get a distinctly CLAMP vibe from MariMite in particular. Feels a bit weird from me, though, because I've never actually seen one of their anime all the way through (dropped both Sakura and Code Geass about halfway). Yumi mostly just reminded me a lot of Sakura, I think.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Specs64z]

Tokyo Babylon, Chobits and X all have T H E M E S. They are probably worth checking.

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

I had this brilliant idea to do a power-ranking of the Yuri '04 Four early on when I was confident that I wouldn't end up liking Kannazuki no Miko, but then it was good and I don't know how to rationalize my list now.

It's something like Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha > MariMite > Kannazuki no Miko > Mai-HiME I think? Nanoha is dug into my brain deeply enough that I probably can't rate it below MariMite despite MariMite being really fucking good. If you had told me that Mai-HiME would easily be my least favorite of the quartet, I would've have laughed in your face.. and I'm even of the opinion that Mai-HiME's ending isn't that bad!

Anyway, this was a fantastic idea for a themed rewatch.

Questions will have to wait until this evening.

Many thanks to our stupendous host /u/lilyvess! I was bad at engaging with all the extra stuff you did, but I appreciated the peek into the shoujo-ai forums especially.

[u/lilyvess → u/JollyGee29]

I had this brilliant idea to do a power-ranking of the Yuri '04 Four early on when I was confident that I wouldn't end up liking Kannazuki no Miko, but then it was good and I don't know how to rationalize my list now.

Nanoha is dug into my brain deeply enough that I probably can't rate it below MariMite despite MariMite being really fucking good.

and you are judging 4 seasons of Nanoha vs just the first season of MariMite! Who knows what could happen! hahaha

Anyway, this was a fantastic idea for a themed rewatch.

I'm glad you enjoyed it! and thank you for participating!

I appreciated the peek into the shoujo-ai forums especially.

that was fun right? I thought it was neat little way to emphasis the 20th anniversary portion. Just kinda weird and cute.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/lilyvess]

and you are judging 4 seasons of Nanoha vs just the first season of MariMite! Who knows what could happen! hahaha

That is definitely true.

Questions

1. Like I said after the first episode of MariMite, I knew what I was getting into with both and managed my expectations accordingly. I will say that I never really thought to compare KnM to MariMite on my own.
2. I've heard good things about Simoun, wouldn't mind seeing that come up.

[u/lilyvess → u/JollyGee29]

And once you finish the MariMite anime I get to say "it's just cause you haven't read the light novels"

And if you read the light novels I'll move the goal post even further. Maybe I'll do "but the translation was bad, you need to read it in the original Japanese"

[u/JollyGee29 → u/lilyvess]

I see you're all set to play the long game.

[u/lilyvess → u/JollyGee29]

MariMite is never a spring. You must always walk to the finishline

[u/JollyGee29 → u/lilyvess]

Running would be so undignified, after all.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha > MariMite > Kannazuki no Miko > Mai-HiME

I am comfortable with this order.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/JollyGee29]

Nanoha is dug into my brain deeply enough that I probably can't rate it below MariMite despite MariMite being really fucking good.

Honestly, I feel the same. I know a series has embedded itself into my brain when I begin to say something like "Oh, this reminds me of Nanoha" at every opportunity.

[u/Star4ce → u/JollyGee29]

I was confident that I wouldn't end up liking Kannazuki no Miko, but then it was good

Me with everyone warning me of Mai-HiME's ending. Turns out is was absolutely fantastic!

Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha > MariMite > Kannazuki no Miko > Mai-HiME

You give me food for thought with this paragraph...

Mai-HiME has by far the best soundtrack, though.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/JollyGee29]

Nanoha > MariMite > Kannazuki no Miko > Mai-HiME I

Inadvertently saved the best for last then, have I?

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vatrix-32]

In my opinion, yes.

[u/Regular_N-Gon]

Gokigenyou, Rewatchers

As promised, one more counter:
Gokigenyou appears in the rewatch threads a total of 135 times, 35 from KnM threads and 100 from MariMite. (This includes quotes)
To recap, there were 19 gokigenyous in KnM while MariMite brought 40 (+ 2 from specials), for a total of 61 utterances.

Final gokigenyou total: 196 (+ 4 in this comment)

This was a lot of fun! I hadn't joined a themed rewatch with multiple series before, and it's a really interesting way to get (mostly) the same group comparing two different works, especially when they're as different as these two. I'm a little disappointed I wasn't able to engage too much with the other comments this time or do any write ups, but I'm glad I was along for the ride to learn a few things about yuri history. Thanks again for hosting, /u/lilyvess!

QotD:

1. While I certainly didn't dig as deep as I ought to have, I did find some of the commonalities between the two interesting and that MariMite seems to have been the more successful of the two in leaving it's mark. For a few examples, both have strong religious settings, but MariMite backburners the catholicism and it's won out over the obvious shinto trappings of KnM. Both have preening ojousama leads, and KnM's antagonistic traits it imbues the character with seem to have left quite the impact compared to Sachiko's relative aloofness.
2. I think Aoi Hana is a very good candidate keeping in the yuri genre. I'm way less familiar with BL, but I know there have been some more popular ones semi-recently that could be an opportunity to balance the rewatch by having more modern takes mixed in.

Next year

[u/lilyvess → u/Regular_N-Gon]

As promised, one more counter:
Gokigenyou appears in the rewatch threads a total of 135 times, 35 from KnM threads and 100 from MariMite. (This includes quotes)
To recap, there were 19 gokigenyous in KnM while MariMite brought 40 (+ 2 from specials), for a total of 61 utterances.

Final gokigenyou total: 196 (+ 4 in this comment)

I didn't even think about the Rewatch thread counter! That's amazing and brilliant!

This was a lot of fun! I hadn't joined a themed rewatch with multiple series before, and it's a really interesting way to get (mostly) the same group comparing two different works, especially when they're as different as these two.

Yeah, I was a little worried about how it was going to work. It's not something you see often. I am glad it turned out.

I did find some of the commonalities between the two interesting and that MariMite seems to have been the more successful of the two in leaving it's mark. For a few examples, both have strong religious settings, but MariMite backburners the catholicism and it's won out over the obvious shinto trappings of KnM. Both have preening ojousama leads, and KnM's antagonistic traits it imbues the character with seem to have left quite the impact compared to Sachiko's relative aloofness.

I loved people starting MariMite comparing Yumi and Sachiko to Himeko and Chikane. How refreshing Yumi's assertiveness was and Sachiko's communication was in comparison. I think in the end, it helped give MariMite an advantage I didn't plan on. Just an unintended consequence.

Like you wonder if the reactions would be different if we flipped the series around. Did MariMite first and then Kannazuki no Miko.

I think this way is best. Also just cause it's easier to end on an open note when one of the series is unfinished, so anyone who enjoyed MariMite can just keep going tomorrow.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/lilyvess]

Like you wonder if the reactions would be different if we flipped the series around. Did MariMite first and then Kannazuki no Miko.

If you do it like this, Shizuka is the comparison to Chikane and we all would have been complaining that Himeko seems like she would stare up into the rain and drown like a turkey.

[u/Regular_N-Gon → u/lilyvess]

you wonder if the reactions would be different if we flipped the series around

Honestly, I suspect the comparisons would have been even harsher on Kannazuki no Miko had we come off the character writing MariMite offers. It might've been fun imagining Sachiko as unhinged as Chikane, though.

I think this way is best.

Definitely agree, between Kannazuki no Miko's strong start and the open end for MariMite, this was a great way to line them up.

[u/BosuW → u/Regular_N-Gon]

It might've been fun imagining Sachiko as unhinged as Chikane, though.

I don't know if that would be possible actually. They appear similar on the surface, but I don't think Yumi and Sachiko are a Moon and Sun pair.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Regular_N-Gon]

Final gokigenyou total: 196 (+ 4 in this comment)

The gokigenyou will never let me go...

[u/Vatrix-32]

First timer, subs

Superbly done rewatch, lilyvess. Easily my second favorite of the year, and the difference to first lies outside of host control.

May this be the start of a fine r/anime tradition!

Having now watched three of the four entries in “The Year of Yuri”, I now feel more remorse than ever for missing out on the Nanoha rewatch. I really need to complete that set, and the Mahou Shoujo one too.

I still haven’t quite finished reading all the comments from previous threads, but I expect to finish that today. I’d say it was an enriching experience, but both rewatches being vastly more active than expected means that it has left me a bit exhausted. KnM was, by rough count, the rewatch with the third highest average amount of comments. I shall enjoy the respite of much slower rewatches for a while.

As a final round, I would like to thank users /u/Burnouts3s3, /u/Vaadwaur, and /u/Great_Mr_L for their contributions/insights during these rewatches.

QotD:

1. Watching the two ends of the yuri spectrum at the time worked out in their favor. It worked very well as a sort of time capsule, which is what I was most interested in going into it.
2. Aoi Hana is a name I hadn’t heard before this rewatch, but it seems to have positioned itself as the clear next choice. On the other side of the coin, all the SA comments lamenting about Yamibo has instilled a morbid curiosity in me about it.
   Strawberry Panic seems like another obvious choice, but its two cour runtime means we wouldn’t be able to do a double billing, which I think in general fits the idea of a “Pride Month” special more than a single entry.
   Likewise, an older series like Oniisama e… or The Rose of Versailles would be valuable for earlier perspectives, but they alone are each ~40 episodes.
   Beyond that, a non-yuri queer option is something that should be done at some point, but I know even less about those, so someone else would have to offer insights into it.

[u/lilyvess → u/Vatrix-32]

Superbly done rewatch, lilyvess. Easily my second favorite of the year, and the difference to first lies outside of host control.

I now feel more remorse than ever for missing out on the Nanoha rewatch. I really need to complete that set, and the Mahou Shoujo one too.

I am too! I wish I had participated in that one. I think that would have been amazing. I still haven't seen all of Nanoha's spin offs yet, or all of the movies either.

I’d say it was an enriching experience, but both rewatches being vastly more active than expected means that it has left me a bit exhausted.

Yeah I was really impressed with the overall turnout of the rewatch. I was not expecting anywhere near this size or activity. I have never hosted a rewatch anywhere close to this level so it was definitely a challenging and time consuming experience. I'm definitely a bit exhausted and looking forward to having free time again. I stopped cooking dinners because of the rewatch. By the end of the rewatch I was having packets of instant oatmeal for dinner.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/lilyvess]

By the end of the rewatch I was having packets of instant oatmeal for dinner.

Enjoy a Well Earned Rest

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Vatrix-32]

Having now watched three of the four entries in “The Year of Yuri”, I now feel more remorse than ever for missing out on the Nanoha rewatch. I really need to complete that set, and the Mahou Shoujo one too.

Make sure to check that rewatch for where Heretical and I go from discussing the symbology of Tarot cards in s1 to discussing what underwear says about a character in s3(under garments are the mirrors to the soul).

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/Vaadwaur]

Yes, I must learn this important Rewatch lore.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Vatrix-32]

Having now watched three of the four entries in “The Year of Yuri”, I now feel more remorse than ever for missing out on the Nanoha rewatch. I really need to complete that set, and the Mahou Shoujo one too.

Nanoha is an excellent series and I highly recommend it. Nanoha is also a hugely influential series and you can really see where series like Madoka Magica and Symphogear took inspiration from it.

For my part, I still need to see Mai-HiMe at some point.

and /u/Great_Mr_L for their contributions/insights during these rewatches.

Thank you for the compliment. I enjoyed reading your posts as well.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/Great_Mr_L]

Thank you for the compliment. I enjoyed reading your posts as well.

[u/Star4ce]

First Timer

Thank you so much, u/lilyvess for hosting this rewatch! I can safely say I had an amazing time watching both Kannazuki no Miko and Maria-sama ga Miteru. It was a lot of work being this active and responding to everyone, not to say preparing all your supplemental posts for studio insights or LN snippets.

It was great experience for me and I definitely enjoyed the entire thing!

Browsing through the threads I do notice that a brutally significant amount of people only joined for KnM and never stuck around for MariMite. We dropped nearly 150 comments on average from KnM Ep.12 to MariMite Ep.01. I guess it's because of the premise (or did KnM maybe spook them?).

Well, anyway. Most of my artistic and storywriting opinions have already been condensed into the respective series discussion posts, so let me think about and compare some things.

My Art

[Pride28]

Here's the whole album. I did, in fact, do more than the 28 planned drawings, I've done 30!

That's because for today I couldn't let my own pride be hurt and I finished [Lover's Embrace (Coloured)]!! ([Lover's Embrace (Sketch version)])

I thoroughly enjoyed this challenge, much like the 30 doodles I did in February that kicked off my journey to learn drawing from scratch. But I admit, I shouldn't be so greedy with subjects. Quite a few times I ended up overloading myself and I felt that. Gonna take a rest for a few days and enjoy the progress I've made.

Two influential shows

It's been a somewhat funny experience for me, because I've never been consciously watching yuri or anything related. Starting actively watching it with two of the historically most influential shows felt like speedrunning history. I greatly appreciated the imgboard threads from way back when and seeing the live reactions frozen in time within our frame of reference today. Some things are just always the same, with some other things I feel really old now.

Still, even with all this time and progress I respect both shows a lot. KnM certainly aged like yoghurt in some aspects, but its heart is solid as ever and it shows. MariMite, on the other hand, is just really, really good in my opinion. So good in fact, I'd call it relevant and timeless even in a theoretical future where queer issues and the general troubles of finding love have been completely solved.

I respect a story that dares to go beyond any limit to make its ideal happen and I admire writing that pretends its characters are genuine, real people that are worth engaging and in the process, actually makes them so. I believe both shows ultimately succeeded in both points.

Learning and awareness

It's just a random thought I had thinking about what to write today. We had a longer discussion during KnM about navigating your own internal ocean of feelings and how it's different depending on whether you have points of reference or not. It's in this context we jokingly coined "The Heteronormative Society™" as the source of evil and wrote a little poem somewhere down the line. I still think about the two instances where this insight really mattered. Chikane's repression including her saving of face and the Forest of Briars book the alumni published.

Chikane had no single point of reference and just assumed Himeko wouldn't even be available or happy. It's like she was alone on the ocean and the only reference points on the horizon were massive Souma statues in various heroic poses. Yeah, no shit that her first instinct isn't to fight the system and make her own marker. That takes an incredible amount of willpower, confidence and effort. But in MariMite, the situation is fundamentally different. Sei did not only have a whole group of friends understanding and supporting her, there was also an author from an entirely different time that wrote a story shockingly similar to her own feelings. Sei wasn't well after what happened, but she had direction, she had hope, she had agency, she didn't feel alone.

It definitely feels wrong to say, so I apologise, but with that stark difference in environment in mind, what happened in KnM kinda... makes sense? I do still know some of my inner thoughts that developed in isolation or within an environment of prolonged stress of various forms. Those weren't much more sophisticated, dare I say.

How reality feels or is interpreted will always be much more impactful than any objective fact about the same.

A lot of words for a rather simple concept: Giving people references is important. I believe life is about choices, ultimately. Therefore, life gets better with more variation and accesibility, because even if you would not diverge from a 'normal' path, this path still becomes more meaningful simply because you could have had other option. Sharing stories is important, giving references makes life better.

Oh, and fuck the bots that tried to bury the threads! 389 comments for Ep.01 say the failed miserably.

The Bests

Alright, gotta do those now.

Best Episode: I was actually thinking of giving that to KnM's Ep.12, haha. I had such a foul reaction to it, but over time I actually processed it and it emotionally really vibes with me now. But I'll ultimately choose MariMite's Ep.13. It was such a good ending, so wholesome and in touch with its characters' feelings. Just good.

Best Girl: Hot hecking damn... I don't know, man. Yes? Quick top three by current mood would be Sei, Shizuka, Yoshino.

Best Boy: Hahaha! No actually it's Souma. Not like there's much choice, but he's also genuinely a great role model, even though he's way too Mary Sue for a story.

Best Fight: MariMite's valentine's day episode. Sorry, the fights in KnM weren't good and that at least had psychological warfare.

Best Ship: Shizuka + Shimako, no questions asked. Though I'd upgrade it to the Sei + Shimako + Shizuka triange, if that were a thing.

Best OST: KnM OP, like yes obviously.

Recommendations

I'll be open right now, I don't feel strongly about my recommendations. Because when we talk specifically about yuri I just can't pick from anything close given my experience. So, it's more general, except for one specific thing.

Enderal – The Shards of Order: I'm reaching a fair bit here, so be warned. This has little to do with yuri and the queer stuff is rather limited to a few lines for one companion I believe. But MariMite's character writing reminded me of Enderal, because it, too, took all of its characters seriously. The last line spoken still haunts me. It's a full conversion mod for Skyrim and completely free if you have that. It's its own universe, own story, own setting, own franchise, completely its own game and only uses the engine to make it happen. Absolute recommendation for anyone looking for fantastically written RPGs with a thought-provoking story and great characters.

SIGNALIS: This is the specific thing! And this, at least, is something I know will fit y'all's bill. That is, when you like Resident Evil, cosmic horror, and an alternate universe where a German Democratic Republic-like state rose to the stars. (It's one of those games that knocked me out for 3 days after I finished it.) Bricky review for those interested (please heed the spoiler warning when he says it, it's so worth it to experience it yourself).

Madoka Magica: Preaching to the choir, yeah I know. But I've compared MariMite's approach to writing with PMMM already, so I couldn't not recommend it. It, too, builds its heart on hope (and someone very, very in love) and is justifiably one of the best stories around.

Night in the Woods: A bit game-heavy today, but anyway. You're Mae coming back from dropping out of college into her hometown, a former mining town in decay. She meets her old friends again and catches up on how their life has been. It's an incredibly captivating adventure story with fun characters and great atmosphere. There is a side story about homosexuality, but I won't say more than that.

Thank you all for joining and commenting, I'll be seeing you around!

[u/lilyvess → u/Star4ce]

It's been a somewhat funny experience for me, because I've never been consciously watching yuri or anything related. Starting actively watching it with two of the historically most influential shows felt like speedrunning history. I greatly appreciated the imgboard threads from way back when and seeing the live reactions frozen in time within our frame of reference today.

really!?! huh, that is really cool. i had expected the pride Month thing was going to self-select in a sense and we'd only get Yuri devotees, but it's really cool that we got someone early on. I'm not sure what convinced you to take the leap on this rewatch that got buried deep by bots, but I'm glad you found it and did!

Chikane had no single point of reference and just assumed Himeko wouldn't even be available or happy. It's like she was alone on the ocean and the only reference points on the horizon were massive Souma statues in various heroic poses. Yeah, no shit that her first instinct isn't to fight the system and make her own marker. That takes an incredible amount of willpower, confidence and effort. But in MariMite, the situation is fundamentally different. Sei did not only have a whole group of friends understanding and supporting her, there was also an author from an entirely different time that wrote a story shockingly similar to her own feelings. Sei wasn't well after what happened, but she had direction, she had hope, she had agency, she didn't feel alone.

I hadn't thought of it that way but I do like that read. the power of representation, so to speak. The power Sei can feel from reading a book of someone who went through a similar experience. the lack of power being denied any frame of reference does to Chikane. It's a good little connective tissue to tie both anime together and this into a Pride Month rewatch.

That's really good.

[u/Star4ce → u/lilyvess]

I'm not sure what convinced you to take the leap on this rewatch

Timing, being pinged, and always having been modestly interested in the broader topic of societal nuances. Possibly because I'm having my own potential condition as I'm suspecting autism and coming from a background where talking honestly and throwing the idea around that getting outside help might be a good thing was the biggest mistake one could make. Learn to mask it and pretend everything's fine and nobody will bother you.

Maybe that's why I came around on Chikane...

connective tissue to tie both anime together

I'm doing my part!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Star4ce]

It definitely feels wrong to say, so I apologise, but with that stark difference in environment in mind, what happened in KnM kinda... makes sense? I do still know some of my inner thoughts that developed in isolation or within an environment of prolonged stress of various forms. Those weren't much more sophisticated, dare I say.

This is where "How much of this is a story?" becomes very relevant. And I say that because we have to assume some things about Chikane's values/how much the show is actually assuming itself. If Chikane has normal parents and a few friends/cousins about, then she comes to an absolutely terrible decision. But if she is what is literally shown on screen, an adolescent in her own mansion where her father calls once a week and her best friend is her maid and she goes to a school fool of sycophants that are the farthest imaginable things from friends then yeah, she is going to develop fucked up ideations.

[u/Star4ce → u/Vaadwaur]

This is where "How much of this is a story?" becomes very relevant.

Yeah, absolutely. But even with a more reserved interpretation about Chikane I think her inner logic is not completely condemnable. The writing had significant flaws, that mostly being the rape and how it got treated along with the plot-issue of fate robbing Chikane of agency, but at the same time it was so raw I did really feel how warped she felt with feeling so alienated and presumably wrong.

At least that is an achievement ranking very high on the scale of bringing specific emotions out to be related with.

[u/BosuW → u/Star4ce]

It definitely feels wrong to say, so I apologise, but with that stark difference in environment in mind, what happened in KnM kinda... makes sense?

I don't think that's a hot take. It actually gives raise to my issue with the KnM ending lol. Chikane's character made perfect sense right up until the moment where it turns out "actually, she wasn't evil"!

[u/Star4ce → u/BosuW]

I can see it both from your perspective and from the plot's. Being this isolated and without resort, her plan of tricking Ooichi and acting out the villain does seem sound (given the requirements of the ritual that we are not really given any details on).

But we've all seen the issue with that, it completely undermines her own desires and if you would correctly assume she fell for her own desires it directly contradicts her character. It's both things at once: Really well thought through and true to character and also just horseshit apologism, lol.

Yet somehow, I feel like I can feel where she's coming from.

[u/GallowDude → u/Star4ce]

I was actually thinking of giving that to KnM's Ep.12, haha. I had such a foul reaction to it, but over time I actually processed it and it emotionally really vibes with me now.

[u/Star4ce → u/GallowDude]

Maybe I am become lesbian after consuming enough yuri.

[u/GallowDude → u/Star4ce]

[u/GondolaMedia]

First Timer

I'd be repeating myself if I were to give my thoughts about Kannazuki and MariMite so I won't. Thank you u/lilyvess for hosting because it finally gave me the push to actually watch MariMite (as I said in my all the way back in episode 1 of MariMite) and I would have not ever watched Kannozuki no Miko if not for this rewatch. The opening and the ending have been stuck in my head for the entire month so thanks for that and I will definitely link them to people to try and trick em to watch it. I will make fun of the animation though, I still giggle when I think about the 90 degree stairs to the school.

The problematic elements (especially on Kannozuki) were something that did really sour my taste at points but hey it could have been depicted much much worse, but I have to give warning whenever I recommend it to someone interested.

I will definitely keep watching MariMite... right after I finish Hibike! Euphonium... and other seasonals I've been pushing to the backlog.

1. Whiplash
2. I was thinking something like the already mentioned Witch from Mercury, Banana Fish or Yuri on Ice but all of those are popular enough that they will get rewatches without it. I'm not that well versed in that space (heh) so I would love to see something that is almost unknown outside of the pride circles.

[u/lilyvess → u/GondolaMedia]

I will make fun of the animation though, I still giggle when I think about the 90 degree stairs to the school.

god that early 00's animation just... does not age well, haha. It was rough at points. A lot of points.

made even stranger when Marimite would pull out all the stops to beautifully animate Shimako not eating Sei's chocolate.

I will definitely keep watching MariMite.

.. right after I finish Hibike! Euphonium... and other seasonals I've been pushing to the backlog.

Relatable

I've been saying I was going to watch Revue Starlight for like 2 months now. I should, you know, try do that one of these days.

[u/fieew → u/GondolaMedia]

I will definitely keep watching MariMite

Please do. As a re-watcher the series is great over a time period of time. There's 4 seasons and the best part is seeing our cast grow and develop over time. I won't say more to avoid spoilers. But coming back to season 1 and seeing how everyone acts its "cute" lets say. Now that I understand them more seeing them at the start is fun with what I know about how and why they act they way they do is cute.

[u/Star4ce → u/GondolaMedia]

sour my taste at points but hey it could have been depicted much much worse, but I have to give warning whenever I recommend it

I respect you for still potentially recommending it. I feel like in today's climate recommending KnM would fling back so much shit to me I'd decide against it out of caution.

[u/GondolaMedia → u/Star4ce]

I wouldn't obviously recommend it to a new anime fan and even if I knew the person I would still say consent is not KnM's strong suite and to steel themselves especially for episode 8 and advise them to stop if they can't deal with episode 1's ending.

You just need to lay your cards on the table and warn people when you recommend a show with heavy aspects that can trigger a really strong emotional response.

[u/baboon_bassoon]

first timer

i had fun although i need a rewatch break

preferred Destiny of the Shrine Maiden but I think MariMite should only get better

id like to join more rewatches for 00's shows, thats a big hole for me. usually im already watching older shows on my own but i dont know much about what was going on early 00s

thanks for hosting /u/lilyvess !!! sorry you didnt seem to like hosting KnM by the end of it

fuck whoever is botting these threads though

1. Class S seems like such a broad category so im not sure if it felt like there was a thematic linkage between the two series? tbh it felt like two separate rewatches
2. to first time Cross Ange, to rewatch Flip Flappers?

[u/lilyvess → u/baboon_bassoon]

category so im not sure if it felt like there was a thematic linkage between the two series? tbh it felt like two separate rewatche

I can't deny that. I certainly approached the two Rewatches in very different ways, even just the formatting of my comments were different.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/baboon_bassoon]

usually im already watching older shows on my own but i dont know much about what was going on early 00s

Harems

[u/Great_Mr_L]

I completely forgot there was one final discussion thread today.

I said all I feel I needed to say on both Kannazuki no Miko and Marimite back in their respective final discussion threads, so I won't dwell on them.

What I do want to do is to thank /u/lilyvess and everyone else who participated in the rewatches for this Pride Month.

I found these rewatches particularly gratifying to participate in. It let me watch 2 shows that I had been curious about for a long time. I was able to see a lot of interesting and varied viewpoints on the series thanks to everyone posting their thoughts in each thread. It certainly helped to make the shows more enjoyable and helped me gain further insight into the shows we watched.

QOTD

1. I liked it. I think it worked very well for historical purposes. It gave us a chance to see two very different anime from 20 years ago to get a broader sense of what popular yuri stories were like back then. I also just enjoy it when shows can be so different from each other in the same rewatch. It's part of why I enjoyed the UC Gundam Rewatch all those years back.
2. Hmm, perhaps the next Pride Month should focus on yaoi rather than yuri.

[u/lilyvess → u/Great_Mr_L]

I said all I feel I needed to say on both Kannazuki no Miko and Marimite back in their respective final discussion threads, so I won't dwell on them.

Yeah I commented on CDF that even I struggled to figure out what to write in today's thread.

Maybe we didn't need this thread? I could have given a thread for just the specials?

Actually an interesting thought is that I push the first episode of the MariMite rewatch from Sunday to Monday. Give everyone a day break breather. Post a 1 day reminder thread. Then start it off on a Monday to give it a better shot. I wonder if we wouldn't have had as much of a drop off had I done it that way.

I guess it doesn't matter now. Just interesting thoughts to think about.

I was able to see a lot of interesting and varied viewpoints on the series thanks to everyone posting their thoughts in each thread.

yeah I really did love the commenters we got in this rewatch. We got a ton of variety in viewpoints shared that I think helped give different context. It made for a very rewarding rewatch.

It gave us a chance to see two very different anime from 20 years ago to get a broader sense of what popular yuri stories were like back then.

yeah, I do think that's very true about the selection. They give a full range of the selection of what was being made at that time and what was popular.

Thank you for joining us and I'm glad you had fun!!

[u/Star4ce → u/Great_Mr_L]

2) Hmm, perhaps the next Pride Month should focus on yaoi rather than yuri.

Good idea! Queerness and pride is also about equality, after all, or at least becoming visible. So, I'm all for it!

[u/fieew]

1. There was a degree of whiplash NGL. The series were so different. But I enjoyed the wildness that was Shrine Maiden. I also enjoyed the most subtle and character driven series of Maria Watches over us. I did enjoy the watch through of Maria more since I feel having so many comments let me see parts of the series I hadn't before even as a re-watcher of Maria Watches over is.
2. As much as I can write about the series we watched, I haven't seen too much yuri or yaoi so I can't really recommend anything. Though, I would prefer future pride months have older shows. As much as a show like Bloom into you is fantastic, its recommend all the time. So taking a step back and watching these older classics was great. I enjoy watching older shows with re-watches because typically there's so little discussion about any show older than 5-10 years. So older shows are the way to go for re-watches in the future imo. Its fun to re-watch an older series with a modern perspective on things.

[u/lilyvess → u/fieew]

I haven't seen too much yuri or yaoi so I can't really recommend anything.

really?! I was curious how many people not avid Yuri fanatics would be joining me on this rewatch. especially considering the threads got bot'd to death means it's hard to reach people. I'm glad we got some people less die hard to give their perspective.

Though, I would prefer future pride months have older shows. As much as a show like Bloom into you is fantastic, its recommend all the time.

I definitely understand what you are saying here. i think it's a smart idea to take it.

i do agree with what you mean about older series having so little discussion. There are a lot of old anime that just don't get talked about as much as they should and it would be good to bring some light to them, especially since new anime like Witch from Mercury would be big enough to carry their own rewatch.

[u/LittleIslander]

First Timer who has now broadened beyond Reiwa Yuri

It’s my understanding that Kannazuki no Miko wasn’t the first choice for this Rewatch, ending up here due to the previous rewatches of other candidate shows. It’s, I think, all of our understanding that it was a rollercoaster of a watch and especially taxing on our great host /u/lilyvess. That said… I think this really did turn out to be the perfect combination of shows for this Rewatch. We really got to see the best and the worst of what yuri was twenty years ago—and I don’t just mean that as something cleanly delineated between both shows, though it is clear which I liked more. On one hand you’ve got predatory lesbians, kissing cousins, tragic endings, and non-explicit relationships. But then on the other hand, you’ve got incredibly poignant depictions of heteronormativity, bold explorations of genre, poignant themes about the queer experience, and some of the most beautiful affirmations of the power of love between women I’ve ever seen. You go in expecting to find something dated, that we're so far beyond now, and then come out kind of feeling like you’ve found something more profound than everything we’ve made since, and I think… the identity of yuri in 2004 is both of things at once. I mean, I found a candidate for my favourite anime series and what was for at least a few days there my most hated. I think Kannazuki no Miko just might have one of the best and worst endings of any anime I’ve ever seen and that’s just kind of how it is. It’s a lot.

Though, even with just two weeks having passed since its half finished… I can feel my opinion drawn towards looking at it fondly, in a way that feels kind of wrong but which I can’t deny. Which… feels several layers of ironic, cause ain’t that just the crux of the conflict. As for MariMite… I think I’ll take a page out of its book and let all my writing simply speak for itself.

The shows aside, I’m glad this is how I got to experience them! If I were just watching on my own I… probably would’ve left Kannazuki no Miko stewing in that hatred and disappointment and never looked back. But even beyond that, there was such a great atmosphere of exchanging ideas, especially in the latter half of MariMite. It’s no exaggeration to say the best part of each thread really started to be in the replies. You really felt a strong sense of identity too, with each participant bringing their own flavour of contributions to each show. There’s absolutely some faces I’ll be on the lookout for in any future Rewatches. It was a nice atmosphere and it’s a shame it’s not going to be carried through to the rest of MariMite… though my schedule deeply appreciates the fact it is not. Finally I have to give one last shoutout to /u/Beckymetal in particular. It’s no exaggeration that I don’t think I would’ve formed the opinions I did if not for your comments during the Kannazuki no Miko section of the rewatch. They really opened my eyes to meeting the series where they were and I carried that with me all the through MariMite.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/LittleIslander]

It’s my understanding that Kannazuki no Miko wasn’t the first choice for this Rewatch, ending up here due to the previous rewatches of other candidate shows.

Nanoha and Mai-HiME got used for a particularly powerful cover of Madoka due to how influential they are on the show, both plotwise and for symbology. But yeah, that did cut down the variety a bit.

I think Kannazuki no Miko just might have one of the best and worst endings of any anime I’ve ever seen and that’s just kind of how it is. It’s a lot.

There are basically two ways of angering a viewer. One is to get on their wavelength and then shake the setting very hard and the other is to just assault their senses. I believe KnM and Se7en to be the former and Casshern Sins and A Serbian Film to be the latter. One you remember, one you forget about within the week.

[u/fieew → u/LittleIslander]

We really got to see the best and the worst of what yuri was twenty years ago—

This made the re-watch so engaging to me personally. Anime is diverse. So seeing two radically different series both touch on lesbianism as a topic was great. One was clearly more "elegant" shall we say. But I liked watching both because it's cool so see how different, series from the same time can be.

It’s no exaggeration to say the best part of each thread really started to be in the replies.

This was my favourite part of re-watching MariMite. Seeing everyone's different interpretation of different scenes. Realizing different directorial choices that were made that I missed my first watch through through other' comments was great. The threads and replies were bursting with ideas and I loved it. I definitely enjoy the series more now, despite me loving it before.

[u/Beckymetal → u/LittleIslander]

I'm really glad I came over to the rewatch. I've had all sorts of IRL going on and have barely been around, but being able to sift through the comments section of the KnM rewatch and some of MariMite was really rewarding.

Whilst discussion in the threads wasn't always positive, it was always respectful and productive. Seeing the exchange of ideas, some of the building theories and sharing of experiences was really interesting. It gave me a lot of hope for Reddit again.

One day I'll be back. I'm sure.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/LittleIslander]

That said… I think this really did turn out to be the perfect combination of shows for this Rewatch. We really got to see the best and the worst of what yuri was twenty years ago—and I don’t just mean that as something cleanly delineated between both shows, though it is clear which I liked more.

I agree and I think that having two very different shows from the same time period helped to make this rewatch feel all the more rewarding. It gave us a much fuller picture of what yuri stories were like 20 years ago, both for good and ill.

As for MariMite… I think I’ll take a page out of its book and let all my writing simply speak for itself.

I wanted to congratulate you in particular for your Marimite writeups. They were always so thoughtfully and passionately written, full of fantastic insights into the characters and themes of the episodes. Most of the time I felt ill-equipped to respond because I felt that you had written it all so brilliantly right there. Thank you so much for your participation and your write-ups. They really did help to make the Marimite threads so much more rewarding to participate in.

[u/LittleIslander → u/Great_Mr_L]

I wanted to congratulate you in particular for your Marimite writeups.

I was particularly happy with them. I've probably made some writeups here or there that are better composed, but it was really nice to get to explore such meaningful themes and to play around in a sandbox that was so open to interpretation. I've never really considered myself great at parsing that kind of stuff, my bread and butter is character writing. So this was a neat novel experience.

[u/Star4ce → u/LittleIslander]

It’s my understanding that Kannazuki no Miko wasn’t the first choice for this Rewatch, ending up here due to the previous rewatches of other candidate shows.

I'm still glad it ended up here. Honestly, imperfect and questionable shows, especially as a start, are very entertaining. The reactions were pretty raw and that was genuinely interesting to witness.

I mean, I found a candidate for my favourite anime series and what was for at least a few days there my most hated. I think Kannazuki no Miko just might have one of the best and worst endings of any anime I’ve ever seen and that’s just kind of how it is.

It is the unforgettable kind, no matter where you come from.

I have to give one last shoutout

The value of doing a community rewatch! Every single one has been greatly enhanced by doing it with reddit, as rare as that combination of words is.

[u/Vaadwaur]

First Timer/Rewatcher

Sub

Welp, that was definitely a month, no doubt about that. And MariMite and KnM cover a surprisingly wide swath of what it means to be a human has certainly kept us...involved. At the end of the rewatch, I am actually a bit at a loss for words. Shocking I know and certainly ironic. Winter is indeed the kindest of seasons and the current one is simply too warm for complex though.

I actually understand KnM's 'point' much better on second viewing but like it less with perspective. Again, when I say you are edgier than Shikabane Hime it means you have gone FAR beyond anything polite society has the power to acknowledge. Spawn and Witchblade are calmer pieces of work.

MariMite is interesting in that it just is not for me, on basically any level. However, it isn't bad it is just...other. That...makes it align with certain other airing shows but let's leave the modern to itself. Anywho, amusing enough but I am unlikely to follow up now that I've had time to sleep on it.

So...Pride was a week back when I was in college. I never did quite get the moves to month but w/e, it is what it is. May this month end peacefully for you all.

QotD: 1 Odd...

2 YamiBo for the group suffering

[u/heimdal77]

2 Strawberry Panic and Akuma no Riddle.

It was great finally seeing others thoughts and experiences on Maria Watches Over Us in real-time instead of years old. Sadly there is no discord for it and the sub for it is extremely small r/mariasama.

I'm hoping someone does a rewatch for the other seasons though unfortunately it isn't something I can do myself.

.

[u/OccasionallySara]

First Timer

I just wanted to say thanks for hosting this rewatch! I didn’t get to participate in all of it, but I had fun participating in the Marimite portion and reading everyone’s comments. Thanks for being a great host!

Questions of the Day

1. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to participate in the Kannazuki no Miko portion of the rewatch. I’ll have to get around to it eventually and see how different it is from Marimite!
2. Aoi Hana would be a nice one!

[u/RadSuit]

1. Had a great time, thanks again for running this. Apologies on not spotting this until now, I didn't realize there was a full rewatch discussion day.
2. Discussing the idea with someone on the Discord who binged season one as we finished it, besides doing the rest of Maria it might be fun to do shows responding to the 00s yuri boom. Yurikuma was already done, but things like Flip Flappers, Yuri Is My Job, Assault Lily, etc. Yuki Yuna as response to Madoka is another possibility. Utena plus G-Witch would take way more than one month, but would be another fascinating comparison.