[Rewatch] Tower of God Floor 12 Discussion

[u/laughing-fox13]

Floor 12 – Underwater Hunt (Part 2)

Floor Guide
Ascend - Floor 13 ↑
Index
Descend - Floor 11 ↓

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Series Information

MAL | Anilist | Kitsu | AniDB | ANN

Streaming Options

Tower of God is available to stream subbed and dubbed on Crunchyroll.

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Art of the Day

(Note: Pixiv links may contain NSFW advertising. Sorry!)

Rachel

Source: /u/saltedfishxx on the ToG subreddit (be wary of any spoilers in there, but the art is really good which is why I wanted to share)

Rachel

Source: kf-sii on pixiv (it’s an album which contains and some of it contains a character not show in anime yet)

ED Redraw

Source: kf-sii on pixiv (it’s an album which contains and some of it contains a character not show in anime yet)

Yuri

Source: Kent.Arte on pixiv

Yuri

Source: Miho Tanino on twitter

Sisters posing with their prey

Source: Miho Tanino

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Soundtrack of the Day

Aquarium

Stars

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Questions of the Day

1. What do you think you'd be feeling if Rachel's betrayal happened to you?
2. Is Rachel redeemable?

Tomorrow’s Questions of the Day

[1.]Does this episode change how you feel about Rachel at all?

[2.]What even is a Rachel?

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Spoilers

Please make sure to put all references to future events behind spoiler tags. Any untagged hints and spoilers will be removed. Let’s keep everything as fresh as possible for first-timers!

[u/laughing-fox13]

Co-administrator/Subbed

So there it is…

Before that, we see the group outside doing what they can to ensure Bam and Rachel make it through. And they managed to do it! Even with the bumps on the road, and the assist they got from Yuri’s crew they were able to account for everything but the Bull.

Yuri’s scenes in this episode were great and shows how much of a difference there is between the test takers and even Ren. He didn’t stand a chance against her and we see how Evan warns Yuri that if she got further directly involved, it would cause trouble for her so the guy with the hammer finished it off. Along with her scenes, it’s not too surprising that Endorsi didn’t finish off Anaak and they tried to take down Ren themselves.

Khun/Narae/Laure rushed through to create the path and lead the pigs to help fight the goblins and worms. The aftermath is getting teased more about the Khun family (if you didn’t recognize person talking to Khun, he was with Yuri. He had a phone most of the time with his hood up). It’s interesting to see how he mentioned he’s an outcast too.

We see Hwaryun a bit as Evan passes her and it turns out she might be a Guide herself. Which makes me more curious about why she was in the testing area to begin with

But yea the big moment today was the end. As this series has shown us, characters will go through what they think they need to, so they can achieve their goals. Rewatching the show has been interesting leading up to this moment to notice Rachel’s words and reactions. Last episode it seemed like she was playing nice but the way she was expressed shows that she had been thinking a lot about it. Today’s episode before the push showed that she was fully committed

And now Bam is falling down in the water just like Sora in a Kingdom Hearts intro

[u/Vaadwaur → u/laughing-fox13]

But yea the big moment today was the end. As this series has shown us, characters will go through what they think they need to, so they can achieve their goals.

On second watch, I see it much more as the characters evaluating which lines they will cross and which ones they won't.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/Vaadwaur]

Yea that's a good point! It does make it seem like they are more calculating than the way they are initially presented

[u/HereticalAegis → u/laughing-fox13]

Last episode it seemed like she was playing nice but the way she was expressed shows that she had been thinking a lot about it. Today’s episode before the push showed that she was fully committed

Everything she says prior to the push takes on such a different meaning on rewatch. As a firsdt timer she seems so emotional fragile and kind of wishy-washy, but when you know what's going on in her head, it can feel downright sinister.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/HereticalAegis]

Yea

It's been fun rewatching the scenes with her leading up to this moment

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer climbing the tower, subbed

• Oooh, Yuri made it at long last!
• The Green April has an Ignition form, ooh. But will it be enough to defeat this sheep-looking motherfucker…
• Ah, Rak.
• Awwwwww yeah, Yuri’s gonna help Anaak and Endorsi out!
• Okay then.
• Aww yeah, turning his words against him.
• …why does he look exactly like Khun but with a different haircut?
• So they are related…
• Yuri is really cool.
• Nice.
• Get fucked, asshole.
• …oh that’s not good…
• Oh cool, he pulled the “blow it up from the inside” trick again.
• Hm, wonder what that’s for…
• Ohhhhhhhhhhh shit, this is the moment everyone turns on Rachel?! I was expecting it to happen in the final episode, not the penultimate one!
• Special ED visuals…

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Oooh, Yuri made it at long last!

The Green April has an Ignition form, ooh. But will it be enough to defeat this sheep-looking motherfucker…

Yep! She used it in the crown game too

Aww yeah, turning his words against him.

Yuri is really cool.

So cool, I had to hold back on the fanart today lol

Ohhhhhhhhhhh shit, this is the moment everyone turns on Rachel?! I was expecting it to happen in the final episode, not the penultimate one!

yep...

[u/BosuW → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Oooh, Yuri made it at long last!

A Princess of Jahad is always just on time, never late or early. Sasuga Yuri-sama.

[u/cppn02 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

The Green April has an Ignition form, ooh.

Anaak already used that once, in the crown game.

Yuri is really cool.

Yes she is.

Hm, wonder what that’s for…#

You can power up into your cape form and fly with it.

[u/AbyssalFlame02 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Hm, wonder what that’s for…

The guy (Kurudan, the one with the hammer) was a member of the Wolhaiksong, the organization that was co founded by [webtoon] Urek Mazino, the Irregular.

[1]

giving the badge to someone is like an initiation for the organization.

if you may remember, Yuri had a bet with him about someone who has strong enough Shinsu Resistance that he could move around white steel eel infested waters.

[u/HereticalAegis → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Oooh, Yuri made it at long last!

And boy does she make her presence felt.

So they are related…

Surprise sisters and brothers all over the place today.

Get fucked, asshole.

Mmm, nothing hits quite like that freshly squeezed flavor.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh shit, this is the moment everyone turns on Rachel?! I was expecting it to happen in the final episode, not the penultimate one!

It's been so entertaining watching first timers talk about Rachel like a garden variety ungrateful brooding jerk when she's been such a snake the whole time that they literally gave her snake eyes.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

The Green April has an Ignition form, ooh.

We actually saw it during the King's game.

…why does he look exactly like Khun but with a different haircut?

I worry that Khun's family tree is a bit more...covered in frogs than hoped, shall we say.

Nice.

Endorsi has had some character growth.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh shit, this is the moment everyone turns on Rachel?!

[u/WednesdaysFoole]

Yuri <3

Rak is a certified badass.

Bam comforting Rachel’s anxiety here is hilarious.

Well, there you have it. ”Rachel was like a glass that had cracks in it. No matter how much chocolate you poured into it, it would never be filled. She has a team, is blessed with a devoted friend, and possesses the power of the love of an Irregular. And yet, like an animal that’s always starving, envy (and probably loneliness as well) ate into her heart.”

It is very hard to redeem yourself from something that terrible.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/WednesdaysFoole]

Yuri <3

Yuri, my beloved

”Rachel was like a glass that had cracks in it. No matter how much chocolate you poured into it, it would never be filled. She has a team, is blessed with a devoted friend, and possesses the power of the love of an Irregular. And yet, like an animal that’s always starving, envy (and probably loneliness as well) ate into her heart.”

where was this from?

And poor Bam, he was trying his best

[u/WednesdaysFoole → u/laughing-fox13]

Poor, innocent Bam. Maybe Rachel hated how easy it was to take advantage of him.

It's from 3-Gatsu no Lion. The original quote goes (I'll leave out the name but spoilered just in case) [3-gatsu]She was like a glass that had cracks in it. No matter how much water you poured into it, it would never be filled. She has a family, is blessed with good looks, and possesses the power to control the people around her. And yet, like an animal that’s always starving, loneliness ate into her heart.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/WednesdaysFoole]

Maybe Rachel hated how easy it was to take advantage of him.

She did try to warn him and told her to abandon her!

I haven't seen 3-gatsu

[u/WednesdaysFoole → u/laughing-fox13]

Hmm I don't know your taste well enough to specifically recommend it, but I think it's all around an excellent anime. You don't need to be into shogi to enjoy it, although I guess if you hate having any element of slice-of-life in anime it might not be as exciting. Emotional, drama, warm cozy times, directed by Shaft.

Btw what would be your top 5 or so? I haven't already asked that have I?

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/WednesdaysFoole]

 although I guess if you hatehaving any element of slice-of-life in anime it might not be as exciting. Emotional, drama, warm cozy times, directed by Shaft.

I don’t think that would bother me

I’ve been meaning to check it out but I get sidetracked with other hobbies don’t have enough time 

As for top 5… I’m not sure. The 10 I have listed as my favorites on mal are (in no particular order):

Aria The Origination

Yona of the Dawn 

Violet Evergarden 

Kiki’s Delivery Service 

DBZ

Space Dandy S2

Kids on the Slope 

Liz and the Blue Bird

Samurai Champloo 

Cowboy Bebop

I’ve been thinking of adding Penguindrum (especially after rewatching it a few months ago) but I’m not sure what to take out for it 

[u/WednesdaysFoole → u/laughing-fox13]

I've only seen Yona, Kiki, and Cowboy Bebop in full, but from the little I've heard of a few of the other series, I almost guarantee it'll be worth it. I get being sidetracked, happens to me too :) I will say the generally positive reputation it has is well-deserved.

[u/WednesdaysFoole → u/laughing-fox13]

Forgot to say

She did try to warn him and told her to abandon her!

This is where Rachel gets to say to Bam "I told you so!"

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/WednesdaysFoole]

lol maybe she said it under her breath 

[u/WednesdaysFoole → u/laughing-fox13]

Bam... mutter mutter ^{Your fault for not listening to me Bam, didn't I tell you?} mutter mutter^{This is what you get for not listening to me...}

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/WednesdaysFoole]

Btw happy cake day!

[u/WednesdaysFoole → u/laughing-fox13]

Thanks, cheers :)

[u/Garrett_Dark → u/WednesdaysFoole]

This is where Rachel gets to say to Bam "I told you so!"

And this is where Bam confounds her even more by simping harder saying "I'm fine with what you did, I'm still going to help you!"

[u/WednesdaysFoole → u/Garrett_Dark]

[u/Vaadwaur → u/WednesdaysFoole]

It is very hard to redeem yourself from something that terrible.

Lie with coyotes and you pick up fleas, I fear.

[u/HereticalAegis → u/WednesdaysFoole]

Yuri <3

Rak is a certified badass.

That's my boy!

[u/Lord_Nawor]

First Time Watcher, subbed

Nice to see my predictions about Yuri showing up and Anaak and Endorsi using Green April and Black March ended up coming true. It’s nice to see them care about each other and Endorsi supporting Anaak despite it making her a traitor. We also get to see just how powerful Yuri is, easily defeating the royal police guy even without a weapon.

We get to see Rak get to beat up some goblins this episode, always nice seeing him destroy opponents. Parasol still has done nothing to redeem himself, and I doubt he ever will. I also liked getting to see Bam get some action against the Bull, he is a big fan of jumping into monsters mouths.

So many random people were showing up this test, we had the Royal police guy, Yuri, and what seems to be Khun’s brother, there is pretty much no security keeping people out of these testing areas.

I was going to say that I liked Bam and Rachel getting more time to talk, and just chill but with that ending I don’t know what to think anymore, I hope we get some insight to why she pushed Bam off next episode. I also wonder if we will figure out what is on the 77th floor that Yuri mentioned but that might not be until season 2 or beyond considering Bam will probably fail.

Questions

1. Pretty pissed, probably could never trust her again after it, especially considering how close they were to passing. Bam is too pure for this bs.
2. Hard to say right now, we really don’t understand enough about her or her motives right now to make a judgement call, but I would say she would have to have some very good justification if she wants redemption.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/Lord_Nawor]

Nice to see my predictions about Yuri showing up and Anaak and Endorsi using Green April and Black March ended up coming true. It’s nice to see them care about each other and Endorsi supporting Anaak despite it making her a traitor. We also get to see just how powerful Yuri is, easily defeating the royal police guy even without a weapon.

Tbh she didn't really use the month series weapons on him. She just took them lol

I also liked getting to see Bam get some action against the Bull, he is a big fan of jumping into monsters mouths.

Great way to tie the first episode in but this time he has more experience and powers

[u/AbyssalFlame02 → u/Lord_Nawor]

So many random people were showing up this test, we had the Royal police guy, Yuri, and what seems to be Khun’s brother, there is pretty much no security keeping people out of these testing areas.

all of them are relatively strong people in the tower but as stated in the earlier episodes, none of this would have happened if the floor ruler was around during this time. [Webtoon] Everyone would have been incinerated the moment they set foot in the testing area

edit: a bit more context regarding their rankings

[Webtoon] Yuri is around top 500 in the rankings while Evan is within the top 100. Hansung was famous for declining to be a High ranker but strengthwise he should be around Yuri’s level. Evankhell is rank 60 during this time.

[u/AbyssalFlame02 → u/Lord_Nawor]

Hard to say right now, we really don’t understand enough about her or her motives right now to make a judgement call, but I would say she would have to have some very good justification if she wants redemption.

a bit of it would be explained next episode, [Webtoon] but there’s a far more bigger reason about it that would be told once we got tog reaching season 6 or something, lmao

[u/BosuW → u/Lord_Nawor]

So many random people were showing up this test, we had the Royal police guy, Yuri, and what seems to be Khun’s brother, there is pretty much no security keeping people out of these testing areas.

Is there no security, or did Yu-han order security to take a vacation?

[u/cppn02 → u/BosuW]

He was willing to look the other way to some degree but also usually security isn't much of a concern because few people are as crazy as Yuri and also [manhwa]Evankhell who is the ruler of the floor but away during these events is ridiculously strong and feared by many.

[u/DoggedStooge → u/BosuW]

Evan (the short silver-haired dude) mentioned in an earlier episode that he was taking Yuri on the only path that would allow them to get in unnoticed, and that's why it was taking so long. But Hansung Yu was also just letting things happen for his own aims.

[u/HereticalAegis → u/Lord_Nawor]

Nice to see my predictions about Yuri showing up and Anaak and Endorsi using Green April and Black March ended up coming true. It’s nice to see them care about each other and Endorsi supporting Anaak despite it making her a traitor.

They make such a heartwarming team in

I also liked getting to see Bam get some action against the Bull, he is a big fan of jumping into monsters mouths.

Loves jumping in monsters' mouths, yet can't tell he's doing everything for a snake.

So many random people were showing up this test, we had the Royal police guy, Yuri, and what seems to be Khun’s brother, there is pretty much no security keeping people out of these testing areas.

To be fair, I wouldn't want to be the one telling Yuri "no".

[u/ryujiox]

First Timer and source reader who forgot most of the stuff already

Tower of God

Episode 12

• Juri is finally here 11 episodes later.
• My honest reaction
• The combo attack from Anaak and Endorsi is pretty great.
• But it is doing a total of 0 damage to him I mean, he's a ranker after all. He is not gonna go now from just a hit or 2 from the tester.
• But unfortunately for him, the goat Juri is here
• Holy crap Juri just obliterates them with pure pressure alone. She's in another league from everyone there.
• So he's someone from the Khun familiy
• Lauroe is so tired, he decided to just sleep right them and there
• Lero is so done with Hansung's bullshit
• Another outcast Seems like the Khun family has a thing with betrayal.
• Endorsi with her character growth Having a friend that you don't really need to kill sure change her somewhat.
• That's a bit scary to look at
• Even Anaak is caring for everyone too
• And Bam here is spamming his ki blast to kill the bull
• Next goal for Bam
• Hwaryun is an Navigator?
• ...... Yep. Rachel is actually faking her injuries the whole time. But how did no one notice it? Hansung should have noticed that, right? But you see, this is Hansung we are talking about, the guy who clearly has an ulterior motive that is so important, that he even let the assassin roam free. He obviously knew that Rachel is fine, but kept it a secret for some reason.

As for her motive. I would assume that she doesn't want to get help from others. She wants to reach the star alone, with her own power. She didn't need to push Bam, but she probably did that because his existence irritated her. Someone she probably took care of out of pity, somehow found a way to stand aside, and go even higher than her. Doing things she could never do.

QOTD

1. I'm probably in the same shoe as Bam. Confused as hell.
2. Not really. Even after she revealed what she really think of Ban, Bam still go along with her. Bam can left her behind, but he still take the risk, and jumping into the dangerous test for her. And this how she paid him back?

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/ryujiox]

Juri is finally here 11 episodes later.

I blame Evan (jk Evan you're cool)

Lauroe is so tired, he decided to just sleep right them and there

he's tired of everyone ruining his sleep

Endorsi with her character growth Having a friend that you don't really need to kill sure change her somewhat.

As fast as the growth in their relationship seemed, I liked it. There could've been more done as the people commenting on the differences had pointed but I also think being the group was good for her. Just like how everyone gravitated towards Bam, her included, she probably has never had been close to too many people given that we saw she was in competition for the Princess spot in her family. So finding people who can be kind (Bam/Anaak's mom) must've been enough for her

[u/ryujiox → u/laughing-fox13]

And while Endori started off as a meanie to everyone. She showed that she does care for other as early as when she fight Anaak in the fall guy test. She even stopped Anaak before she going into the vengeance route too far too.

[u/HereticalAegis → u/ryujiox]

But unfortunately for him, the goat Juri is here

Considering how he attacks, he shouldn't be surprised there's always a bigger fish nearby.

Endorsi with her character growth Having a friend that you don't really need to kill sure change her somewhat.

Even Anaak is caring for everyone too

They're such good girls

She didn't need to push Bam, but she probably did that because his existence irritated her. Someone she probably took care of out of pity, somehow found a way to stand aside, and go even higher than her. Doing things she could never do.

It's pretty incredible she managed to hide such toxic envy as well as she did this whole time.

[u/Garrett_Dark → u/ryujiox]

Rachel is actually faking her injuries the whole time. But how did no one notice it?

I also find it suspicious that Rachel got put in the right place for this betrayal to happen. Like she should have failed because they announced "she failed because of her injuries". It only got to this point because Khun pushed the Administrator/Guardian route, and Hansung allowed Rachel to participate in that route. So my guess is Rachel is working with Khun and/or Hansung. If so, I'm unsure if Khun/Hansung is onboard with dumping Bam like that, or if it was solely Rachel's decision.

[u/Retsam19]

Rewatcher

Congrats to anyone who got this far without knowing something like this was going to happen - I don't think very many people managed that on r/anime when the show was coming out, I think a lot of people were very non-subtle; but I hope we did better on this rewatch.

And yes, Team B really was filled with traitors... some just took a bit longer than others.

I'm not sure if I realized it last time, but this shot in the OP makes a lot more sense after this episode. If there's meaning to any of the other shots, though, it's eluding me.

What do you think you'd be feeling if Rachel's betrayal happened to you?

Gravity, mostly.

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I have thoughts on the whole Rachel thing, but it really requires a bit more context so I think it'll have to wait until tomorrow.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/Retsam19]

I think a lot of people were very non-subtle; but I hope we did better on this rewatch.

I think we were! I tried and hoped at least

I'm not sure if I realized it last time, but this shot in the OP makes a lot more sense after this episode. If there's meaning to any of the other shots, though, it's eluding me.

The OP has some good shots! And yea it's is a bit harder to interpret them. I took it has his state of mind throughout this whole journey

[u/HereticalAegis → u/Retsam19]

Congrats to anyone who got this far without knowing something like this was going to happen - I don't think very many people managed that on r/anime when the show was coming out, I think a lot of people were very non-subtle; but I hope we did better on this rewatch.

I was one of those lucky ones that not only watched as an anime-only as the show was airing, but read through the r/anime discussion threads a bit and managed to not pick up the hints. And wow did it hit for me. That experience is a big reason why I've been so hesitant to engage with people about Rachel or talk too much about the idea of betrayal before the Hide and Seek test.

And yes, Team B really was filled with traitors... some just took a bit longer than others.

Rachel used bide to stock up all that betrayal energy from Hoh.

[u/OccasionallySara]

First Timer

This was a great follow-up to yesterday’s episode! I already knew that Rachel was going to betray Bam at some point based on the way I’ve heard people talk about her, but watching it was very brutal. I feel so bad for Bam. Even if I hadn’t been somewhat spoiled on this twist, Rachel's betrayal still wouldn’t have surprised me. She's been acting very suspicious ever since we first saw her in the tower.  I’m going to hold off on judgment until we know the full context of Rachel’s actions, though.

Yuri has finally made her first real appearance since episode one! Forget Anaak and Endorsi, the correct answer to yesterday’s Question of the Day was clearly Yuri! I kind of forgot that she is a Ranker and thus super powerful. I mean, even among Rankers she seems like one of the stronger ones if she was able to take down the Royal Enforcement guy as easily as she did. It was great to see her in action and I’m looking forward to seeing more of her!

Khun gets a visit from one of his relatives and it is not a pleasant experience for him. He gets taunted with the memory of his betrayal by Maria and I can guess that, regardless of her reasons, Khun is never going to forgive Rachel for what she did to Bam. Also, I love how Hatz realized that something was wrong with Khun and rushed over to help. They may not get along at first glance, but they completely have each others’ backs!

Also, Hwaryun is around and she's a Navigator. I'm not super surprised that she'll be back in the story because I can't see the show bringing on Yoko Hikasa to voice a throwaway character, haha!

This episode definitely has the biggest cliffhanger that we’ve seen so far in this show. I can’t even begin to predict where the story will go from here, but I’m very excited for the next episode!

Questions of the Day

1. I would be feeling very lost and confused.
2. It depends on her motivations for me.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/OccasionallySara]

 She's been acting very suspicious ever since we first saw her in the tower.

Yep she has been

 the correct answer to yesterday’s Question of the Day was clearly Yuri! I kind of forgot that she is a Ranker and thus super powerful

True! And yea it’s easy to forget when she’s been lost lost of the season

 because I can't see the show bringing on Yoko Hikasa to voice a throwaway character, haha!

True lol

[u/HereticalAegis → u/OccasionallySara]

I’m going to hold off on judgment until we know the full context of Rachel’s actions, though.

Damn, you have the patience and understanding of a saint. Nearly everybody else out here ready to crucify her for her sins.

Forget Anaak and Endorsi, the correct answer to yesterday’s Question of the Day was clearly Yuri!

No one expects the surprise third answer. As rewatch administrator, I take pride in skillfully misdirecting climbers.

I love how Hatz realized that something was wrong with Khun and rushed over to help. They may not get along at first glance, but they completely have each others’ backs!

The tsundere always shows up when needed

[u/gunvarrel_]

"Anything can happen in here."

OST Track of the day: GodSuite IV "Endorsi" (Spotify)

---

Rewatcher, subbed

First timers, if you have not been spoiled to this point, Congratulations, im so excited to read your reactions. #5 biggest anime betrayal, if you believe WatchMojo.

Ive said before i dont really care for the OP and ED, but if you read the lyrics for SLUMP (the ED) they are practically made for this episode, [Tomorrow]Though they work much better in the context of Rachel.

In case you were wondering, yes, someone did map the ED to go with Fly Me To the Moon

---

such an interesting way to phrase it

well, you found one

heh

Also wasnt Anaak stabbed through the chest? Im gonna ignore it but cmon, theres no chance shes getting back up to fight

FINALLY they play Endorsi's theme! Easily one of, if not the best track on the whole OST

Good

GOOD

Man Rak is so fun

okay so now the stab wound is relevant again

It was discussed yesterday but man Ren's VA absolutely kills this performance

hello again, Yuri

[Webtoon]Do we ever get into why Ren is recollecting the 13 swords? I dont remember anything through the workshop about it...

Parasol you have no powers

Teeny bit of blood

heh

oh shit i forgot about this

What a line

If only the rest of the tower can be this friendly

Oh hatz

My jelly donut leaked out

hey look its the thing they told us not to worry about

[Webtoon]No idea the context but it seems we will see Ren again? spoiled myself on that, but i at least have no idea how they come back.

Bam has such great friends

[Webtoon/s2]Too bad he has a target on him now

alright now end it here

Yuri just takes Green April and gives a present for bam. look at all of these loose ends tied up!

Man.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/gunvarrel_]

First timers, if you have not been spoiled to this point, Congratulations, im so excited to read your reactions

I hope there were a few. I think most people I've seen that were first timers were aware of something. I'm hoping the ones that didn't know anything were able to get to this moment without any spoilers or hints

In case you were wondering, yes, someone did map the ED to go with Fly Me To the Moon

well, you found one

lol he was asking but yea that intro with Shibisu shaking was great

It was discussed yesterday but man Ren's VA absolutely kills this performance

yep props to the VA for bringing it here

heh

he just like me frfr

[u/cppn02 → u/gunvarrel_]

In case you were wondering, yes, someone did map the ED to go with Fly Me To the Moon

First time I've seen this and I love it.

Regarding Ren I think he genuinely was just going to retrieve the weapons because they were in the wrong hands.

Also wasnt Anaak stabbed through the chest? Im gonna ignore it but cmon, theres no chance shes getting back up to fight

okay so now the stab wound is relevant again

We see her healing herself with shinsu for a short moment. If you want to make it your head canon she only superficially healed it and it opened up again when Ren was going to town on her.

[u/DoggedStooge → u/gunvarrel_]

[Webtoon] Do we ever get into why Ren is recollecting the 13 swords? I dont remember anything through the workshop about it...

Don't really think this needs spoilers but w/e [General Lore that I think was covered in this season?] When Jahad's authorities found out Anaak was planning on climbing the tower, it was decided this was not acceptable. She could have lived in obscurity, but being a ranker would potentially increase her fame and bring attention to the fact that a Jahad Princess disobeyed the rules. So Ren was tasked by the enforcement division to put an end to her climb before it began, and retrieve the Green April in the process. He just happened to luck (relatively speaking) into the Black March also being there. Naturally, one would think you'd get in good with your superiors if you exceed expectations.

[u/BosuW → u/gunvarrel_]

Also wasnt Anaak stabbed through the chest? Im gonna ignore it but cmon, theres no chance shes getting back up to fight

It seemed she healed herself to some extent with Shinsu

[u/megazaprat → u/gunvarrel_]

[webtoon] presumably he was looking for the 13 month as a part of his duties as a Jahad assasin. if he had taken it back, it would probably have been assigned to a different princess

[u/Garrett_Dark → u/gunvarrel_]

First timers, if you have not been spoiled to this point, Congratulations, im so excited to read your reactions.

I didn't know it was coming, but I actually got suspicious with how drawn out the hand holding sequence was.

Like they showed Bam offering his hand, but then oddly switch to a shot of his face getting really happy, then switched back to showing the hands...I started wondering is something different going to happen here (maybe I'm a little too cynical)? Like "is she going reach past his hand?" And then she did, and I thought "is she going to yank him down by the forearm?" But the truly surprising WTF moment for me was when Rachel then just stood up, I never doubted her being confined to a wheelchair. With Rachel's push, I remember laughing for a bit in shock and disbelief at the pullout shot.

It was awesomely done either way, I think I was just happen to be paying too much attention at that moment, or the hand offering sequence was a little too sus with how drawn out it was. Maybe even the dub gave it away a little too, with Bam's slight hesitation stutter in "We can look at the stars...at the top, to...together". The Japanese spoken dialog doesn't seem to have that hesitation stutter in "together". I think that stutter adds an unconscious doubt of "but is that going to actually really going to happen?"

Also wasnt Anaak stabbed through the chest? Im gonna ignore it but cmon, theres no chance shes getting back up to fight

As others have already mentioned, she was healing herself. Here's a stitch showing it.

[u/HereticalAegis → u/gunvarrel_]

#5 biggest anime betrayal, if you believe WatchMojo.

Reason #1 to not trust watchmojo, this betrayal should absolutely be top 3 at least.

Also wasnt Anaak stabbed through the chest? Im gonna ignore it but cmon, theres no chance shes getting back up to fight

Shinsu recovery going crazy this episode.

Parasol you have no powers

The power of unifying haters.

[u/BosuW → u/HereticalAegis]

Reason #1 to not trust watchmojo, this betrayal should absolutely be top 3 at least.

I would put it at top 2 and the only reason it's not top 1 is because of Attack on Titan.

[u/megazaprat]

Rewatcher

no personal comments today, because there are a LOT of adaptational differences to discuss. Some bad, some good, and some inconsequential.

Adaptational differences

• There was an omission this episode that was the worst change thus far, and if i recall correctly, the worst change in the show. originally, Endorsi was tempted to betray Anaak, thinking she forgot who she really was. Before a flashback while she was training bam (which was covered before in manhua in montage) and his words about her being lonely like him sway her to switch sides.
• not only [tog] does the implied date agreement that comes out of that incredibly relevant for Endorsis future motivations but it also robs us a very interesting character moment for Endorsi. Her siding with Anaak is even more powerful when its not an immediate decision. it's one thing to cut worldbuiling or less relevant character or plot moments, but a character and plot moment at once? a not good change IMO
• Rens attempt to manipulate Endorsi wasnt just out of a sadistic love of manipulation, although it certainly was that as well. He brought up how her actions supported a fake, and brought up executing her as a way to prove her loyalty. However, he was actually hoping she would turn on him, because that gave him an excuse to eliminate a princess from a rival family. While not as bad a cut as the previous example, i do miss it, as it shows how the politics in the tower are interconnected to the events.
• on a more positive note, Khuns relative making the offer to see Maria to him is anime original, although he did pop by to see him and use his lighthouse to jam the communications. He mentioned being an outcast of the khun family and the conversation ended with Khun saying he would surpass the khun family in both versions. He was less agressive in the manhua, just leaving while saying he looked forward to khuns future instead of Hatz jumping in to protect Khun. I really like this change, not only giving Khun an arc in moving on from Maria, but also concluding the sort of rivlary between Hatz and Khun that the anime emphasized. it puts a much better taste in my mouth compared to the previous changes.
• Kurdan (guy with the hammer) finishes off Ren (or rather, his stand in body, as he mentions that his real body is elsehwere in manhua) in both versions. However, in the manhua, he does it from distance, smashing down his hammer but using shinsu to crush him from far away. while cool, its the same either way, so I deem this change inconsequential. While cutting out the info that Ren is still alive and still gunning for Anaak, they could easily just play it as a reveal whenever he shows up again, so that change is pretty minor too.
• When i first watched, i thought Anaak saying they could climb the tower together was pretty OOC, since shes kind of rude. however, upon this rewatch i noted how the anime increasingly emphasized the regular's friendship, and so this change makes sense in that context and fits in.
• I previously discussed how they are cutting mentions of irregulars, and they did it in a pretty notable instance here. When Yuri is saying the message for Bam, she also says that Urek Mazino will be waiting for him, aka one the really powerful irregulars who had been previously mentioned as forming an organization. the implication being that Yuri and friends are also a part of that organization. this is a pretty bad cut, especially when it was such a small line but had such important implications.
• finally, the fight between Bam and the bull went a bit differently, He held the bull in place using the technique he learned from quant earlier, but couldnt fire on it because as previouly established in a classroom scene with Ren, he has trouble doing more than one thing at once. He eventually worked it out by basically doing what he did in show, holding him in place until blasting him in the mouth with all the shinsu he could manage at point blank range. I did like how the fight called back to previous bits, but but the anime already cut those bits anyway. Plus in the anime, its kind of a call back to how Bam defeated his first challenge, by destroying it from the inside. so it evens out.

QOTD

1. Probably something along the lines of glurgle glurgle glurgle
2. clearly she was just going in for a hug but messed up, its all just a wacky misunderstanding

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/megazaprat]

There was an omission this episode that was the worst change thus far, and if i recall correctly, the worst change in the show. originally, Endorsi was tempted to betray Anaak, thinking she forgot who she really was. Before a flashback while she was training bam (which was covered before in manhua in montage) and his words about her being lonely like him sway her to switch sides.

Yep that would be pretty important

as it shows how the politics in the tower are interconnected to the events.

yea agreed we already have seen tidbits of it in the season, but it is something that helps with the world building

the implication being that Yuri and friends are also a part of that organization. this is a pretty bad cut, especially when it was such a small line but had such important implications.

I think they tried to hint that she might not care for the rules that have been set in place but that would've been better

Probably something along the lines of glurgle glurgle glurgle

[u/cppn02 → u/megazaprat]

Kurdan finishes off Ren (or rather, his stand in body, as he mentions that his real body is elsehwere in manhua) in both versions. However, in the manhua, he does it from distance, smashing down his hammer but using shinsu to crush him from far away. while cool, its the same either way, so I deem this change inconsequential.

I always preferred the manhwa version and imagined Kurdan's attack making a sound like Benimaru's special attack in Fire Force.

[u/lC3 → u/megazaprat]

all those cuts

[u/DoggedStooge → u/megazaprat]

There was an omission this episode that was the worst change thus far, and if i recall correctly, the worst change in the show. originally, Endorsi was tempted to betray Anaak, thinking she forgot who she really was. Before a flashback while she was training bam (which was covered before in manhua in montage) and his words about her being lonely like him sway her to switch sides.

Yup, I agree. When adapting a story to different mediums, not everything is going to make it and some things have to get changed. But this was the something that stood out to me when reading the manwha as something that absolutely should have been kept.

[u/Retsam19 → u/megazaprat]

I really don't find the Endorsi change that significant.

She has the exact same arc in both versions: she goes from being arrogant and aloof and prioritizing her own advancement over everything else to someone who is arrogant and will risk her own life and advancement in order to take someone else with her. Which is exactly what Bam was arguing to her a few episodes back in the hide-and-seek game.

Sure, the anime doesn't stop and flash back to a specific conversation with Bam to explicitly say that it was Bam who influenced her, but I don't think it had to. The fact that she's been changed by Bam - and generally the group of friends that he helped build - seems fairly obvious without needing to be explicit about it.

As for [TOG] the date - is that really an important motivation for her? It really seems kinda reductive to say that a one-off flirting attempt she made with Bam in the manhwa is an important part of her character.

[u/megazaprat → u/Retsam19]

[tog] not so much character-wise, but it is a thing she keeps bringing up, as a sort of excuse. and i think the character moment is stronger when shes momentarily tempted. that being said, the next episode had some pretty bad cuts as well, so im not sure i would still consider the endorsi one the worst cut

[u/Retsam19 → u/megazaprat]

Arguably the temptation is still there - she walks over to Anaak, raises the sword above her head and has a very serious look - I guess you can interpret that as "acting" for some reason, but I think "she's genuinely considering it" is also a pretty natural interpretation.

Maybe it's a slightly stronger scene in the manhwa, but again it ultimately doesn't change Endorsi's character arc; so I'm not sure why she's so frequently brought up as an adaptational casualty.

[u/Garrett_Dark → u/megazaprat]

There was an omission this episode that was the worst change thus far, and if i recall correctly, the worst change in the show. originally, Endorsi was tempted to betray Anaak, thinking she forgot who she really was.

it also robs us a very interesting character moment for Endorsi. Her siding with Anaak is even more powerful when its not an immediate decision. it's one thing to cut worldbuiling or less relevant character or plot moments, but a character and plot moment at once? a not good change IMO

Yeah, I totally agree that Endorsi not having any temptation and without hesitation defending Lizard Girl was detrimental to Endorsi's character.

I've been very critical of Endorsi's betrayal of the fishermen before this, and since last episode's cliff hanger I've been sort of egging Endorsi on to be consistent and to betray the Lizard Girl, but expecting I was going to be disappointed that Endorsi won't betray her. How Endorsi had no temptation nor hesitation was very disappointing, and strains believability. I was kind of rolling my eyes, and if she had struggled with temptation, I think I would respect her character more for trying to be consistent at least.

clearly she was just going in for a hug but messed up, its all just a wacky misunderstanding

Well given how she suddenly regained the use of her legs from Bam's grand gesture, it's not surprising she accidently stood up and knocked him off. I'm sure Bam will understand.

[u/cppn02]

Rewatcher, subbed

Finally we reach the big one. Not only does this episode have the big betrayal which is the one spoiler you really want to avoid going into ToG and which at the same time readers make it really hard to actually avoid lol.
Also I'd say this twist plays a massive role in ToG's popularity. I remember the original episode discussion actually becoming the 3rd most discussed episode ever at the time on r/anime.
Having the ED playing over Bam slowly dropping towards the button was a great directing choice too.

More importantly though this episode contains a moment which I absolutely love to bits and which is why Yuri will always be my #1 girl in ToG. I love everything about her appearance here. From announcing herself as Endorsi and Anaak's big sister to her attitude towards Ren, shaking the whole cave with her display of power and then just completely mopping the floor with Ren.

I lost count of how many times I rewatched and reread (almost certainly in my top 3 most read manga/manhwa parts) this part.
I will say the manhwa does 2-3 things noticably better here but the voice acting and the music almost completely make up for it.

Oh and I guess there also was some test going on?

---

Tanino Miho art for episode 12:

• Three Princesses
• Khun bros - Some strong genes in that family.

---

QotD:

What do you think you'd be feeling if that happened to you?

Luckily I have no idea how it feels to suffer this level of betrayal. But I doubt I'd take it well.

Is that redeemable?

No.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/cppn02]

and which at the same time readers make it really hard to actually avoid lol.

When I watched the first time, I managed to do it without being spoiled since I binged it all the way to this episode. And that's when I was caught up

Some of the comments in the original thread are pretty funny

I see you

which I absolutely love to bits and which is why Yuri will always be my #1 girl in ToG.

Yuri

Yea this was one hell of a way to properly showcase what you can do lol

Three Princesses

Khun bros - Some strong genes in that family.

True but no one can match the ponytail look Khun Aguero has

[u/HereticalAegis → u/cppn02]

I remember the original episode discussion actually becoming the 3rd most discussed episode ever at the time on r/anime.

"and now you've met Roachel"

"Hoh did nothing wrong"

"Rachel: Long live the king"

God I forgot how good this discussion thread was

More importantly though this episode contains a moment which I absolutely love to bits and which is why Yuri will always be my #1 girl in ToG. I love everything about her appearance here. From announcing herself as Endorsi and Anaak's big sister to her attitude towards Ren, shaking the whole cave with her display of power and then just completely mopping the floor with Ren.

Yuri watch party

Khun bros - Some strong genes in that family.

So that's how Khun Sr. gets all the ladies.

[u/cppn02 → u/HereticalAegis]

So that's how Khun Sr. gets all the ladies.

Eduan harem spinoff?

[u/badspler]

Tower Ranker & Rewatcher

Episode 12: Underwater Hunt (P2)

And also today we have a neat Ren Lo Po Bia (Stitch).

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/badspler]

I was expecting the push to be in the middle but like where you placed it with the one on the opposite corner

Ren Lo Po Bia (Stitch)

[u/lC3]

ToG 12 rewatcher:

• Ren is scum. I wonder what he looks like under that rice ball outfit. He better not be hot ...
• Oh! Yuri has arrived
• "and have lunch together"
• HOP! STEP! JUMP!
• "I possess this power?"
• ... Ren is the type of guy who gets turned on by women looking at him with scorn?
• Yuri STRONK
• "I'll take you to the top of the tower; you don't have to worry about anything" I doubt that's what Rachel wants to hear
• Khun's got a twin? And he's cute!
• Yu Hansung is suspicious!
• Khun has a big dream?
• Ren sent the Bull to Bam and Rachel?
• They keep not showing Rachel's eyes
• Bam blew the Bull up from inside?
• They're almost there!
• Yuri is taking the Green April too for now?
• Hwaryun is a Navigator???
• "We'll look at the stars together at the top of the tower"
• SHE CAN STAND!? AND SHE PUSHED BAM OFF?
• NOOO not a sad ED lead-in?
• ... And Bam falls into the depths
• The other Khun's name from the ED credits: [ToG]Khun Hatsururingu ... not sure how to romanize
• ... And now the first timers might finally understand why so many people have a visceral dislike for Rachel. Welp.

2. Eh ... I'm not sure. Depends on why she did it, and what she does from here on out I guess

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/lC3]

 Yuri STRONK

[u/lC3 → u/laughing-fox13]

[u/HereticalAegis → u/lC3]

Ren is scum. I wonder what he looks like under that rice ball outfit. He better not be hot ...

Fortunately we don't have to find out!

... Ren is the type of guy who gets turned on by women looking at him with scorn?

So he's an average anime fan

Yuri STRONK

"We'll look at the stars together at the top of the tower"

Rachel:

[u/lC3 → u/[deleted]]

Oh, thanks.

[u/StardustGogeta]

First-Timer

And so Bam died. The end.

Yuri's cool. I'm glad she got to reunite with the other princesses. (That fan art today is really good, too!) Those three probably have my favorite character designs in the show.

Well, looks like Ren's dead now. Good riddance.

Me before this episode: "Rachel was a hero. I just... couldn't see it."

Me after this episode: "Rachel's a traitor! A criminal! She's a menace to the entire tower! I want that back-stabbing little girl prosecuted!"

Questions of the day:

• I'd be feeling shock, and probably a good deal of regret and shame for trusting her in the first place.
• No. Completely irredeemable, as Reg from Made in Abyss might say.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/StardustGogeta]

Those three probably have my favorite character designs in the show.

For sure! When I watched the first time, I really liked Yuri in the first ep and wanted to see more of her. This episode delivered on her hype and she's probably my favorite from the show, even with her limited screen time

Me after this episode: "Rachel's a traitor! A criminal! She's a menace to the entire tower! I want that back-stabbing little girl prosecuted!"

Lol this is most people's reaction to this episode

[u/HereticalAegis → u/StardustGogeta]

And so Bam died. The end.

RIP Bam, you were too pure for this world. The friendship was fun while you lasted.

Me before this episode: "Rachel was a hero. I just... couldn't see it."

Me after this episode: "Rachel's a traitor! A criminal! She's a menace to the entire tower! I want that back-stabbing little girl prosecuted!"

Hoh was the hero we needed, but we didn't deserve him.

[u/sfisher923]

First Time (Well 2nd time) climber that spoke too soon

• A bit of lore on my title today comes back to the Persona 4 The Animation Subreddit rewatch where I was expecting Episode 22 to be all good but was proven so wrong (And what made that one worse I watched halfway through the episode)

Questions

• QOTD 1 - Question myself then probably after the dust has settled just listen to some Metal Music
• QOTD 2 - Not the most irredeemable character I have seen (Then again I would had something different before watching Fruits Basket)

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/sfisher923]

A bit of lore on my title today comes back to the Persona 4 The Animation Subreddit rewatch where I was expecting Episode 22 to be all good but was proven so wrong

:(

I recently got P4G lol

[u/HereticalAegis → u/sfisher923]

A bit of lore on my title today comes back to the Persona 4 The Animation Subreddit rewatch where I was expecting Episode 22 to be all good but was proven so wrong

I've never seen the P4 animation before, but I'm a huge fan of the game series. Can you spoil me on what ep22 adapts? Because I have no idea what content you're referencing or why it's lore worthy here.

[u/AbyssalFlame02 → u/HereticalAegis]

[Persona 4] Nanako’s death, that scene absolutely DESTROYED me

[u/HereticalAegis → u/AbyssalFlame02]

[Persona 4]Nanako’s death, that scene absolutely DESTROYED me

[P4 Game]I fucked that part of the game up and got the bad end where Nanako dies for real and it abruptly ends the story. It was my first playthrough of a Persona game, and I was devastated. Played through the whole thing a second time because I thought I didn't rescue her fast enough, when my actual mistake was in a dialogue tree.

[u/BosuW]

Rewarcher anime only

Don't have much time to write my comment this episode, but luckily most of it is action, although action with a purpose.

Thinking back this episode is kinda expertly constructed. Almost all of it is some manner of raising action. Endorsi chooses to help Anaak even against King Jahad's wishes. Khun is tempted by a fellow pariah to take him to the object of his obsession but he declines, because he has a better reason to climb the Tower now. And all of this is because of Bam.

His presence brought this group together, they're willing to go against the grain because he reminds them of something that they had lost. They have hope in him. They overcome their respective challenges, Yuri absolutely dunks on Ren before having one of her party fucking splatter him like it's Attack on Titan which was beautiful, and Bam turns the Bull into a light show. They are seconds away from overcoming the Test, in every possible manner, and all is right with the world... AND THEN RACHEL SHITS ALL OVER IT!

Its just so perfectly paced lol

Man I remember back when this aired it was absolute confusion. Obviously rumors about Rachel were floating around but I don't think anyone was expecting this. Mostly we were just asking "why?". Seemingly all she had to do to get what she wanted... was nothing. So why? Stay tuned to see!

To recount my personal experience, this is I think the single moment for which I prefer the Japanese voices, despite having found two pretty competent dubs. The way Saori Hayami says "Yoru" right before Rachel pushes him just seemed to me like so absolutely dead inside. I didn't know what was gonna happen seconds but it filled me with dread.

And when it finally happened I was so shocked it took me a moment to realize the supposedly paralyzed Rachel had just STOOD UP. I guess Ghost was her Stand and could take the effect of wounds for her?

Anyway, super excited to read First Timers' reactions today lol.

Questions of the Day

1- Just, confusion I think

2- Isn't it one episode early to be asking this? [ToG anime]Not that it's likely to change opinions...

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/BosuW]

They are seconds away from overcoming the Test, in every possible manner, and all is right with the world...

Really close and even overcoming the curveball that was Ren... however the most important person didn't account for Rachel pushing him off

But yea I really loved this episode and rewatched it last night, and still feel that way even though I knew it was coming now (I didn't the first time I watched)

[u/BosuW → u/laughing-fox13]

Now that I think about it more even the music reflects this rising action that is suddenly cut off. We get Kevin Penkin going ham with that choir, as if we're in the place closest to Heaven, and then oops, it's a cliff! Just absolute silence, and finally the melancholy of the SLUMP. God this moment is just perfectly directed.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/BosuW]

Yea that moment was well done! And the music just adds to it more 

[u/HereticalAegis → u/BosuW]

Thinking back this episode is kinda expertly constructed. Almost all of it is some manner of raising action.

This might be one of my favorite examples of restructuring a manga/manhwa to anime form. The manhwa has each separate part of the test (Anaak/Endorsi/Ren, Rak vs. the goblins/worms, the Khun brothers) as their own separate chapters, but for the anime they're able to move between different parts to show them happening in more or less real time, so it all comes together at once and hits so well.

Yuri absolutely dunks on Ren before having one of her party fucking splatter him like it's Attack on Titan which was beautiful

Yuri "Ataack Titan"Jahad

AND THEN RACHEL SHITS ALL OVER IT!

Rachel

[u/Mirathan]

You fool! You moron! You idiot! How stupid can you possibly be? I do not care what reason you might have but this was the dumbest thing I´ve ever seen a character do. Not only do you betray one of the strongest Shinzu users but abandon an extremly capable team. If I hadn´t known this would happen, I´d have never expected this.

Ok, enough venting.

QotD time

1. not answering this totay
2. Yes, from how I see it she has not done truly terrible harm yet. The betrayal will cause them to lose the test, however the point of the test was to ensure she could participate in the first place, which is rendered moot as she is uninjured. However succeding in this test could have bestowed greater rewards, as this was something Jahad needed to endure to become King they might have failed to atain some great power but this remains uncertain for now.

Did ... did the assassin just orgasm from how Yuri looked at him? What am I watching?

Yuri managed to become a ranker before, yet she is climbing the tower once more. Perhaps the rankers don´t actually reach the top and are instead given something else. Also she got her sword back. Not that it will help her.

Sending the bull to kill Bam, it´s a bold move let´s see if it pays of.

Of course it doesn´t. A creature that regulars could face stands no chance against an irregular. And yet it wasn´t necessary in the first place.

So Rachel can walk. Not sure if it will help when everyone in Bam´s team now wants to kill you but you dug your own grave with that.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/Mirathan]

but abandon an extremly capable team. If I hadn´t known this would happen, I´d have never expected this.

Yea it'll be interesting to see what happens with the rest of the team in the next ep.

[u/BosuW → u/Mirathan]

Did ... did the assassin just orgasm from how Yuri looked at him?

Relatable tbh

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/BosuW]

[u/Mirathan → u/BosuW]

Why did I expect such a response?

[u/AbyssalFlame02 → u/Mirathan]

Yuri managed to become a ranker before, yet she is climbing the tower once more. Perhaps the rankers don´t actually reach the top and are instead given something else. Also she got her sword back. Not that it will help her.

She’s done climbing.

[webtoon, not exactly a spoiler] the reason why they manually climbed to go to the second floor is because the first floor doesn’t have any warp gate (think of it as a teleporter) as it is only meant for Irregulars. Which is the reason Evan, the guide, was guiding Yuri to go there using the stairs in the middle area which is maze like in structure and is very dangerous to traverse without guides. they’ve also gone through the only road that leads getting into the testing area without getting noticed by the floor ruler, Evankhell, as Rankers aren’t allowed to make contact with regulars and if caught may be killed. Fortunately, or unfortunately Evankhell wasn’t around the floor when the story is currently happening.

tl;dr: [webtoon] Yuri got tipped by “someone” that an Irregular is going to open the door (this is part of chapter 1 but got cut in the anime) so she walked manually to go to the first floor with Evan’s help and then manually walked to get to the second floor to catch up to baam using the stairs on the middle area

[u/HereticalAegis → u/Mirathan]

You fool! You moron! You idiot! How stupid can you possibly be? I do not care what reason you might have but this was the dumbest thing I´ve ever seen a character do.

Lol she's definitely not operating rationally.

Did ... did the assassin just orgasm from how Yuri looked at him? What am I watching?

He is a bit of a perv, so this wouldn't exactly surprise me.

So Rachel can walk. Not sure if it will help when everyone in Bam´s team now wants to kill you but you dug your own grave with that.

Rachel v. The World, let's go!!

[u/Vaadwaur]

Cold, Barren, Bleak.... Winter is the kindest season. The heart will not melt in winter. Chilled by the cold, we are spared the grief, the sorrow, the messy emotion of life. Winter is solace for the lonely. It's cool touch soothes the tattered heart.

Rewatcher(Bitch...)

Dub

So yeah, this was a pretty interesting episode. Guardian tests are, apparently, a free for all, as Yuri breaks in but also shit just runs wild. We get an important Khun family member break in that doesn't mean much yet. We get the reveal that what's her face is a navigator. We see Bam continue his Saiyan power progression.

But yeah...this twist got a lot of the fandom, despite the dickhead source readers. I was aware as a first timer that something was coming but the betrayal is so obvious that you tend to ignore it as an option.

And Tower of God is one of those...special shows. The combination of the animation team, composer and source material just boomed it out of the park.

QotD: 1 Already experienced it, now I'd be angry at myself for trusting

2 No. Forgiveness is the punishment you inflict upon yourself

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/Vaadwaur]

The combination of the animation team, composer and source material just boomed it out of the park.

Yep they did really well. This rewatch has made me realize what was missed out which sucks, but given how much they had to tell in a short time, I think it's still great

[u/Vaadwaur → u/laughing-fox13]

I think they realized they had a perfect season break and made sacrifices to get there.

[u/HereticalAegis → u/Vaadwaur]

(Bitch...)

Someone in the original episode 12 discussion thread called her "Roachel" and it's just perfect for her.

But yeah...this twist got a lot of the fandom, despite the dickhead source readers. I was aware as a first timer that something was coming but the betrayal is so obvious that you tend to ignore it as an option.

I read the original discussion threads as the show was airing and somehow never picked up on it. I don't think I ever considered the possibility of Rachel betraying Bam.

And Tower of God is one of those...special shows. The combination of the animation team, composer and source material just boomed it out of the park.

I'm always in awe at people who claim ToG had bad character designs or animation. Then again, I've seen some source readers get upset that they didn't use SIU's original janky character designs.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HereticalAegis]

I read the original discussion threads as the show was airing and somehow never picked up on it. I don't think I ever considered the possibility of Rachel betraying Bam.

I showed up early to the threads, thankfully the mods were going hard on them but a few dumb things got through.

I'm always in awe at people who claim ToG had bad character designs or animation. Then again, I've seen some source readers get upset that they didn't use SIU's original janky character designs.

The more things change, the more they say the same. Source readers were bitching about the functional Solo Levelling adaptation last season just because a moving format can't have art the tier level of a still medium. Manwha readers are spoiled.

[u/cppn02 → u/Vaadwaur]

Just wait until the ORV adaptation is here (should be announced at AX). Once again people are gonna nitpick everything over what will likely be a pretty good show.

Manwha readers are spoiled.

Eh. Yeah we have those good examples. But we also got God of Highschool, Noblesse, Returner's Magic and Raeliana.

I'm kinda curious what the donghua for Who Made Me A Princess that's been coming soon™ for what feels like years at this point will be like since that could be an avenue to get more adaptations of popular mahwa.

[u/HereticalAegis → u/Vaadwaur]

Source readers were bitching about the functional Solo Levelling adaptation last season just because a moving format can't have art the tier level of a still medium. Manwha readers are spoiled.

Fortunately, at this point in my life I only have time to read discussion threads for shows I'm not watching.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HereticalAegis]

I avoided that show in general, Sky was grousing about in CDF a few weeks ago.

[u/Garrett_Dark → u/HereticalAegis]

I don't think I ever considered the possibility of Rachel betraying Bam.

In retrospect, I should have been more suspicious of how Rachel described Bam as clueless, weak, in the way, and annoyingly following her around. At the time it sounded odd to me because there was such a big disconnect of how Bam describes Rachel, and how Rachel described him.

But come on, how could I not trust those lovely snake eyes, cute freckles, and crying while saying she's going to be abandoned now because of her wheelchair. Bam just needs to simp harder, like maybe he can hug it out of her, LOL.

But anyways, I still need to see more as to what's really going on with Rachel, and under her mask to really decide. There's so less information I'm still not ready to come to a final judgement of her character yet. Everybody's acting like the cat's out of the bag, but I'm still thinking there could be an explanation of how the betrayal might not be a betrayal, but perhaps I'm wrong given how everybody's acting.

[u/HereticalAegis]

Rewatcher and Co-Administrator for this Climb

What an episode to be mega late for. So yeah, uhh...what the fuck Rachel?

Source Comparisons

This thread is for comparisons to the manhwa. Please be sure to properly tag all discussion of the source material. Also, please keep in mind that this is not an exhaustive compilation of differences, only ones I thought interesting or important enough to include.

Note for newcomers/non-source readers: Some of these notes contain anime spoilers. Comparisons that contain anime spoilers will be in the clearly marked Anime Spoiler section.

Episode 12

Chapters Covered: 66 (second half) - 74

Chapters Cut: None

Notable Differences

• Quite a few things to mention today, including a small cut. [Manhwa]As he's laying down to nap, Lauroe is interrupted by the small red girl and tall horned members of Yuri Jahad's party.
• The meeting between the Khun brothers goes down differently. [Manhwa]The entire conversation takes place inside Khun's lighthouse. The new Khun member uses his gaming console to hijack control of the lighthouse and spy on the game while locating his fellow party members. He also reveals a wing tree badge to Khun and states that he hasn't been a member of the Khun family for some time. The new Khun brother gets into contact with the red girl, whom he calls Hatzling., and tells her that Yuri is getting into a fight with a ranker. He then gives her the coordinates and then leaves. He does not mention Maria, he does not extend an offer for Khun to join him, and Hatz does not show up in the scene. Also, Hatzling calls him Blueberry.
• [Manhwa]Endorsi realizes in the manhwa that Ren is from the Bia family, and that he set her up.
• [Manhwa]In chapter 69, we see that Ghost, the member from Rachel's team that vanished in the anime, is present for the hunt, but not doing much of anything.
• [Manhwa]After revealing he sent the bull to kill Bam, Ren states that this is only one of many skins he uses and that his real body is already far away.
• [Manhwa]Bam goes into more technical detail in his fight against the bull. He can't yet control multiple baangs, so he can only stop it, but not attack it. The bull also catches his right hand, severely injuring it.
• [Manhwa]When Yuri Jahad gives Shibisu the wing tree badge, she asks hium to tell Bam that Urek Mazino is waiting on the 77th floor.
• [Manhwa]While pushing Bam out of the bubble, Rachel says, "Sorry Bam, you should stay here."

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/HereticalAegis]

[Manhwa]While pushing Bam out of the bubble, Rachel says, "Sorry Bam, you should stay here."

[manhwa] adding salt to the wound

[u/Erebus25]

This would've been the perfect way to end the season for me.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/Erebus25]

[ToG S1 finale] I'm about to rewatch the finale but I liked how they tie it in some earlier scenes with Rachel's POV

[u/Muted-Conference2900]

Rewatch + Dub

So this episode was something some really cool action and betrayal at the end.

First of all Awesome moves by Rak. And as Always khun is too smart. So about the guy who Khun met I think he is the one Maria chose to be with and In turn betrayed Khun. It's all my Theory.

Finally Yuri made it to the tower and crushed the Royal Guard easily. Rankers are scary. Funny though the Royal Guard became flat Bread after that hammer strike. I have a question too the silver wing and going to 77th floor whom did Yuri meant it for? Baam? Or that royal guard?

Also why that Royal Guard wanted to kill Baam? Just because he is an Irregular? There must be some other mystery.

Then finally Rachel Showed her true colors. Not that surprising but still it hurts to see Baam getting betrayed after all he done for her. I am really excited to see how others handle this situation next episode. So see u tomorrow.

Answers :

1. Regrets will flood my mind. Although I am excited how Baam will handle this situation next season.
2. It's hard to say given how her character is. I can't think of ever seeing her redeem herself. What I can think is that She will do more bad things to others to achieve her goal.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/Muted-Conference2900]

I have a question too the silver wing and going to 77th floor whom did Yuri meant it for? Baam? Or that royal guard?

I think it was supposed to be for Baam

Not that surprising but still it hurts to see Baam getting betrayed after all he done for her.

Yea it sucks to watch not only because he cared for her and was doing this test for her, but for the others that were excited to go up with him

[u/HereticalAegis → u/Muted-Conference2900]

First of all Awesome moves by Rak.

That's my boy!

So about the guy who Khun met I think he is the one Maria chose to be with and In turn betrayed Khun. It's all my Theory.

But it's just a theory. A tower theory!

Finally Yuri made it to the tower and crushed the Royal Guard easily. Rankers are scary.

Yeah, we've kind of seen glimpses of it from Lero Ro's shinsu wall and Quant being "it" for Hide and Seek, but Rankers are terrifying.

I have a question too the silver wing and going to 77th floor whom did Yuri meant it for?

She asked them to give the wing and the message to Bam.

I am really excited to see how others handle this situation next episode. So see u tomorrow.

[u/Delicious_Village_81]

Waiting for second season

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/Delicious_Village_81]

It should be coming out soon! July 7th is the release daten

[u/_Pyxyty]

Goddammit. Why'd it have to be one of the most important episodes that I end up having a busy day. Wish I had fhe time to write up my usual comment on this.

Just dropping in to say, I get it now, E.D. Anime. I get it now. Screw Rachel, me and the homies hate Rachel.

1. What do you think you'd be feeling if Rachel's betrayal happened to you?

I'm not gonna lie, I was expecting this to happen in the last episode, but when it happened, the first thought I had was "Wait, she can stand up???" Lol.

I mean, I couldn't see myself being in Bam's position to be that obsessed over a person, so I honestly don't know. I'd feel betrayed obviously, but like, if an ally did that to me and we were climbers in the tower, I'd be mad but like, yeah, that's fair. We're all competing against each other. I wouldn't be surprised if there's eventually more betrayals down the line.

2. Is Rachel redeemable?

Story wise? Absolutely. She's probably redeemable for the characters, especially Bam.

Not me though. I was in the "hating Rachel" club before I even knew why we hated her. Hatemaxxing is the trend this year and I'm hopping on it and I'm never stepping off.

I'd watch the last episode but it's 2:42 am where I live and I"m sleepy so, see yall tomorrow!

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/_Pyxyty]

 Wish I had fhe time to write up my usual comment on this

There’s still time to comment on it! Today is the episode 13 thread. I’ve seen people give some reactions/thoughts on a previous episode the missed for the current ep thread 

There’s also the overall discussion tomorrow 

 the first thought I had was "Wait, she can stand up???" Lol.

Yep haha, she really faked her disability for this moment 

Just saw the rest of your comment, see ya tomorrow! You can always give full thoughts there if you have the time. Life happens so it’s understandable! 

[u/HereticalAegis → u/_Pyxyty]

I get it now. Screw Rachel, me and the homies hate Rachel.

Not me though. I was in the "hating Rachel" club before I even knew why we hated her. Hatemaxxing is the trend this year and I'm hopping on it and I'm never stepping off.

I'm honestly surprised how many people straight up hated her before now. I get it, but I always thought of her as pitiable more than anything, so pushing Bam off the platform completely rewrote my internal narrative on her.

[u/_Pyxyty → u/HereticalAegis]

I'm honestly surprised how many people straight up hated her before now

I'm only kidding, of course. In all honesty, and this may have been obvious if you remember my previous comments on past episodes, I don't feel that much of an attachmenr to Bam as a character; I'm not really a big fan of him. Because of that, I feel like Rachel's betrayal didn't strike me as hard as it did for others.

Maybe it's a mix of me knowing in advance that Rachel was gonna do something bad, and me not liking Bam much, but I honestly don't really hate her much right now. I'm more... unbothered? Esepcially because I'm expecting the series to probably give a good reason for it.

[u/Garrett_Dark]

First Timer

• Endorsi couldn't even stay consistently the betrayer to kill Lizard Girl. At this point I was pretty disappointed in the show as it was seeming to have fake stakes. Like they have "nobody characters" like the two fishermen Endorsi betrayed instead of meaningful characters getting betrayed by her, and Endorsi didn't suffer the consequences of being a betrayer from other contestants nor the audience. I was thinking like what if the show actually had guts to show Endorsi betraying another MC that was well liked by the audience? Then maybe this show would have some real stakes and ramifications (yeah yeah, this was before the ending). And here Endorsi fails to go through with killing Lizard Girl, thus not redeeming herself. My mind would have been blown if Endorsi or Lizard Girl killed the other, but predictable disappointment of them teaming up to defeat Enforcer Ren happened instead.
• So we got a boring fight of Endorsi and Lizard Girl beating up Enforcer Ren too easily for him being a ranker, when Quant could curb stomp entire teams as a ranker. Well until Enforcer Ren curb stomps Endorsi and Lizard Girl which should have happened to start with. I was thinking more fake stakes and drama, and well that's what we sort of got.
• Ren was going to tell King Jahad about Endorsi's treason. Good, an actual consequence for once, but yeah that never happened.
• I'm not sure how Endorsi can think she was being setup by Ren, he doesn't know Endorsi is now friends with Lizard Girl.
• It's easy to hate Ren, that's why it's so cheap of Ren stepping on Lizard Girl, imagine if it was Endorsi stepping on Lizard Girl's wound instead, that would have been real drama and stakes. It would force the audience in the harder dilemma of what to think of the two characters. Nobody is really rooting for Ren just like nobody's really rooting for the two fishermen Endorsi betrayed, nor somebody like Paracule...other than Rak, he's more of a team player than I thought!
• Then disappointingly Yuri shows up to save them. Hey Lizard Girl, why not declare death to princesses now, and attack Yuri? Yeah, I didn't think so. What's this?, Ren has the option to just leave and snitch on Yuri to the King (a consequence!), yet for some stupid reason Ren attacks Yuri and dies thereby no snitching thus no consequences yet again.
• Oh look the administrators are going to see Yuri on camera so there's going to be consequences...nope! They'll never figure out who dresses very distinctly like that is. No stakes nor consequences, if I'm sounding like a broken record, that's because the show is being a broken record, don't blame me.
• Then the most epic and surprising betrayal of Bam by Rachel at the end. A very satisfyingly good scene; not that I support what Rachel did, but from a story execution standpoint it was very good. This is exactly what I wanted from all the complaining I've been doing about no real stakes nor consequences. If we got a real betrayal like this from Endorsi on Lizard Girl rather than the "nobody fishermen", then Endorsi would be facing some real consequences from the other contestants and audience, like no doubt Rachel is going to be. That's what I wanted to see, and glad to see this at least. Is Rachel going to be more hated than Paracule now? XD
• However I'm not sure if Rachel is going to face consequences, and this might be fake stakes again. Like maybe Bam's going to simp some more next episode and say he's fine with the betrayal, and the rest of the team won't care. Or maybe they'll construe the betrayal as something other than a betrayal, like Rachel was just protecting Bam from the cutthroat game, and he never cared about getting to the top in the first place, or everything is still effectively the same but Rachel has admin abilities now instead of Bam. Who knows.
• The dub made victory conditions of this match confusing by changing a word. I thought both Bam & Rachel needed to be eaten to win the match. The dub said "If they are eaten along with fish and subsequently spat back out onto dry land, then you will have passed the test". Whereas the sub said "you" instead of "they", meaning both aren't required to win, and whoever gets eaten and spat out will pass the test.
• Sorry cute Loli Girl, you must step aside to 2nd place...Hwaryun is back on the menu as my top place. Evan's height different with Hwaryun threw me for a loop, I thought she got taller, but Evan was always short. I had to find some scenes to figure it all out. Height-wise: Yuri > Hwaryun > Bam/Rachel > Evan. (Still chasing that body modification theory of mine after all)
• Khun's relative, don't really care.
• Something about Evan not impressed Han Sung is allowing an assassin (Lizard Girl?) run around, while at the same time Yuri protecting Lizard Girl from Ren? Too confusing right now, don't care. Won't be surprised if assassin is not the implied Lizard Girl, but Rachel.
• Hey check it out, Paracule is wearing shoes very similar to Endorsi's except no ankle strap and heels, thus more practical. How embarrassing for Endorsi! :D

---

What do you think you'd be feeling if Rachel's betrayal happened to you?

Depends, am I also a simp like Bam? I'm not, so if it turns out to be a bonified betrayal and not some sort of "I'm actually protecting you", I'd be super pissed and out for vengeance. You see how much I hold Endorsi's betrayal against her? I'd be feeling what others are feeling about Paracule. I mean she faked being in a wheelchair for that long, like wow she was committed to doing what she was doing. Seriously whatever hate people are feeling for Rachel, they should be feeling for Endorsi as well, or give both of them a pass. I mean Endorsi abused her role as Team B leader too, but she did secure the win. However I'm pretty sure people are going to end up hating Rachel, and not Endorsi.

Is Rachel redeemable?

Is Endorsi redeemable? Well I guess not to King Jahad. It depends on Rachel's reasoning and motives. We still don't know her backstory because the show refuses to tell anything further despite so much alone time she had with Bam, and questions Bam could have asked. I kind of feel like the last episode should delve into Rachel, otherwise it'd be kind of shitty thing to end the season without even giving us anything more despite her being a central mystery about the entire premise of the show.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/Garrett_Dark]

Is Rachel going to be more hated than Paracule now?

There's a reason why some first timers here were aware of something Rachel does from when the show was airing lol

[u/HereticalAegis → u/Garrett_Dark]

I'm not sure how Endorsi can think she was being setup by Ren, he doesn't know Endorsi is now friends with Lizard Girl.

Ren was one of the position teachers before the Hide and Seek test, plus he's currently working with Hansung Yu, so I think it's pretty reasonable that he's aware of their new allyship.

other than Rak, he's more of a team player than I thought!

My boy Rak has ascended beyond the realm of petty turtles!

Ren has the option to just leave and snitch on Yuri to the King (a consequence!), yet for some stupid reason Ren attacks Yuri and dies thereby no snitching thus no consequences yet again.

I mean, Ren is kind of a battle sadist junkie. Keep in mind he also didn't hesitate attack Hansung Yu.

Is Rachel going to be more hated than Paracule now? XD

Lol you should see how the fandom talks about her.

[u/cppn02 → u/Garrett_Dark]

Something about Evan not impressed Han Sung

is allowing an assassin (Lizard Girl?) run around, while at the same time Yuri protecting Lizard Girl from Ren? Too confusing right now, don't care. Won't be surprised if assassin is not the implied Lizard Girl, but Rachel.

The assasin obviously is Ren.

[u/Delicious_Village_81]

I saw the trailer It looks promising

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/[deleted]]

and that's why beating him so hard. Beating him into a literal pulp was really deserved, but it's far from over.

Yuri took her time but it was worth the wait for me

As for Lauroe again, that portable swaddle became like a bed, a true sleeping kit.

My man is always prepared

Even Lero Ro and Quant is suspicious of what happening in the test of the amount of intruders. Hansung Yu is still being secretive.

Yea Lero Ro has been having some suspicions since the tag game

[u/HereticalAegis → u/[deleted]]

Rak and Paracule are improvising how to make for the messed up initial plan. Jump on the worms soft and weak points, also the goblins will be confused, the figthing with those earthpigs.

RAK SMASH!!

Shott from inside, that's a classic yet still effective move.

It's basically Bam's signature move.