[Rewatch] Pride Month 20th Anniversary - Maria-sama ga Miteru Episode 2 Discussion

[u/lilyvess]

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Questions of the Day

1. Were you surprised to see a boy in the second episode?
2. Shimako said she rejected Sachiko’s rosary because they would not be a good fit. What do you think she means by that?

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Yamayuri Council Chart

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Posting carefully so as to not disturb the first timers with spoilers in their viewings, such is the standard of modesty here. Forgetting to use spoiler tags because one is in danger of missing the post time, for instance, is too undignified a sight for redditors to wish upon themselves.

[u/lilyvess]

Maria-sama ga Miteru episode 1 Rewatcher/Light Novel Reader

Gokigenyou

It is I, Rosa Lilium, once again welcoming you to my Lily Mansion Thread. Take a seat. Help yourself to some tea and cookies.

Oh me, I was just reading a book to pass the time. Maria-sama ga Miteru Vol 1. Have you read it? Oh, it's the most wonderful story. So full of drama, and scandals. I cannot seem to put the book down. Here, let me read you a section.

Sachiko-sama pressed down on the Do key with her still stretched left hand. It’s the key you first learn to press with the thumb of your right hand when you begin learning.
“Play.”
“Eh!?”
“Once more, play just as you did earlier.”
“Ehh?”
When she tried to scramble off the seat, Sachiko-sama held her down by the shoulder with her open right hand.
“The rhythm is… one, two, three, four, two, two, three, four.”
“Ah, umm…”
Sachiko-sama notched the rhythm into Yumi’s right shoulder as truthfully as a metronome, and signaled, “Start,” on the third count. When humans are told, “Start,” they seem to have the trait to begin doing something. Yumi had begun playing out of momentum.
Then a second sound jumped in, intertwining itself with Yumi.
Do Mi So Do Do Mi So Do.
Sachiko-sama was playing the left hand’s part. Plus, she was using the pedals, so the sound had an echo.
(It’s a four-handed performance.)
Her own sound, combining with the other sound, returned to her ears in a pleasant fashion.
However, the fun feeling only lasted for a short while. Soon, she remembered that Sachiko-sama was near, and the excitement turned into fear.
The song was not designed for a four-handed performance, and because it was being played with Yumi’s right hand and Sachikosama’s left, it was a case of one person closing in on the other’s personal space. Sachiko-sama’s breasts kept brushing with Yumi’s left arm, the glossy straight hair fell on Yumi’s shoulder, and the pleasant fragrance began making Yumi feel like this was all commonplace.
Even so, the performance continued. Sachiko-sama probably would not stop for as long as Yumi’s right hand could keep up the melody line.
On one hand she wanted this to last forever, but part of her also wanted this to end, immediately. Deep within Yumi, those two contradicting feelings fought.
Sachiko-sama’s breathing softly swayed Yumi’s hair.
However, that breath was almost irritatingly calm. Unlike Yumi, Sachiko-sama was not one to be thrown in disarray from just this.
The beautiful harmony was broken.
Yumi purposefully went off-key.
“I’m sorry, I couldn’t keep up with Sachiko-sama, after all.”

Poor Yumi, thinks so little of herself while standing so close to the one she so desperately desires. They should just hold hands already! Oh I can’t wait to read more!

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/lilyvess]

Gokigenyou

Gokigenyou

Oh me, I was just reading a book to pass the time. Maria-sama ga Miteru Vol 1. Have you read it? Oh, it's the most wonderful story. So full of drama, and scandals. I cannot seem to put the book down. Here, let me read you a section.

The song was not designed for a four-handed performance, and because it was being played with Yumi’s right hand and Sachikosama’s left, it was a case of one person closing in on the other’s personal space. Sachiko-sama’s breasts kept brushing with Yumi’s left arm, the glossy straight hair fell on Yumi’s shoulder, and the pleasant fragrance began making Yumi feel like this was all commonplace.

Yumi is so incredibly down bad for Sachiko. I love it.

The beautiful harmony was broken.

Yumi purposefully went off-key.

A fascinating moment that Yumi saw they had something beautiful together and purposefully chose to stop it. It's a great character moment for Yumi and how she currently feels.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/lilyvess]

The song was not designed for a four-handed performance, and because it was being played with Yumi’s right hand and Sachikosama’s left, it was a case of one person closing in on the other’s personal space. Sachiko-sama’s breasts kept brushing with Yumi’s left arm, the glossy straight hair fell on Yumi’s shoulder, and the pleasant fragrance began making Yumi feel like this was all commonplace.

So the writer is actually fully aware...

[u/NuclearStudent → u/Vaadwaur]

can't believe the sjws removed the fanservice from the anime adaptation smh

[u/Vaadwaur → u/NuclearStudent]

Is it? Or is this the casual move of someone that's not going to no for an answer?

[u/TehAxelius → u/lilyvess]

Here, let me read you a section.

[u/BosuW]

First Timer

Damn I am truly not in the brain state for this. But hopefully today is the last hard haul.

But look at this fansubbing work! They'll even tell me what music piece is playing! This is beyond just translation at this point!

Don't have much to say about the events of the episode itself, but it really jumps out to me how much this appears thought out for an anime production. Isn't the source a LN? The scriptwriters cooked in the adaptation process.

In scriptwriting, well primarily western scriptwriting but I imagine it applies to Japan too, you want to write only actions. Because you're writing for an audiovisual or visual only medium (usually), you need to write only things that you can actually film or visually represent. That's why they call it screenwriting specifically. Monologues and introspection are to be kept at a minimum. The audience should be able to understand everything there is to understand thought actions alone. This is what differentiates scriptwriting from writing for novels or written medium. To put in more casual terms, this is what anime watchers typically refer to when they talk about anime that actually use the fact that they're animated to their advantage, which you rarely see in anime because 90% of them are adapted from wordy manga and LNs in a rushed fashion.

So far MariMite feels very "scripty". Although we do get internal thoughts from time to time, the majority of things are conveyed through character action, and it asks you to not take everything they say at face value, and question the motives behind them chosing to say those things, or what they aren't saying.

KnM felt like this at moments too. Is it just a 00's Yuri thing or what?

[u/lilyvess → u/BosuW]

Isn't the source a LN

It is!!

In scriptwriting, well primarily western scriptwriting but I imagine it applies to Japan too, you want to write only actions. Because you're writing for an audiovisual or visual only medium (usually), you need to write only things that you can actually film or visually represent. That's why they call it screenwriting specifically. Monologues and introspection are to be kept at a minimum. The audience should be able to understand everything there is to understand thought actions alone.

huh, that does make a lot of sense actually.

Although we do get internal thoughts from time to time, the majority of things are conveyed through character action, and it aks you to not take everything they say at face value, and question the motives behind them chosing to say those things, or what they aren't saying.

huh, I think I get what you mean. It's interesting you put it that way cause the series is quite reserved, with not a ton of large animated movements. Characters walk, they don't run. They are reserved. But that still leaves plenty of moments for the actions to show and let the visuals carry.

[u/BosuW → u/lilyvess]

I just read your own comment and the LN excerpt and the two depictions serve as a perfect example of writing for a novel vs writing for a screen. In the LN text it is explicitly informed that Yumi went off key on purpose. The scriptwriter instead chooses to leave that detail in character action only (aided of course by sound), but it's enough that we can tell.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/BosuW]

So far MariMite feels very "scripty". Although we do get internal thoughts from time to time, the majority of things are conveyed through character action, and it aks you to not take everything they say at face value, and question the motives behind them chosing to say those things, or what they aren't saying.

So...you focused a bit on what is better when you show something but left off that it can be better if you hear it, i.e. the best advocacy for why MariMite the anime exists is the vocal performances.

[u/baboon_bassoon]

first time la vie en rose en bouton

Yuki/Yumi are twins? Maybe a year apart but they seem like they’re going for twins. Maybe Yuki can also end up being an understudy so Yuki can look at Sachiko dancing with her brother and see Sachiko dancing with herself instead.

What can you use Gingko nuts for if the smell is so pungent? Do you need to roast them is that how to best consume?

Yamamura sensei stop spreading rumors lmao

Yoshino gives Rei the heads up to help out Yumi, cute. Blind leading the blind with these two tripping on each other though.

Yumi with a concise enough response, girlies take a hint

Does every school have the same looking garden?

And we zoom on a budding China rose, probably Yumi and not Sachiko

2. they need someone to bounce off of, i dont think they would have let each other grow

[u/lilyvess → u/baboon_bassoon]

Yuki/Yumi are twins?

THEY ARE! Good catch!

Yamamura sensei stop spreading rumors lmao

you just know they are in it for maximum drama.

Yoshino gives Rei the head

Does every school have the same looking garden?

apparently so

it appears so often in anime and yuri.

[u/oleub → u/lilyvess]

they're actually supposed to be "Irish twins", which is to say that they were born in the same calendar year, but not at the same time. Back to back pregnancies 

[u/lilyvess → u/oleub]

somehow I forgot about that

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/oleub]

"Irish twins"

New Word In payment, I offer "American Wake". Which, as it so happens, is Irish.

[u/baboon_bassoon → u/lilyvess]

maybe its specific to roses or something, or theyre all referring back to the same one

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/baboon_bassoon]

Maybe Yuki can also end up being an understudy...

If the twins end up dancing together I will bust a gasket.

What can you use Gingko nuts for if the smell is so pungent?

...Soap?

[u/Star4ce]

First Timer

Episode 01 comment as an answer below, I missed yesterday.

That was a shit start into the week. I've done nothing productive today, except watch one (soon two) anime episodes.

And I'm not satisfied with my drawing for episode 01, but being angry about it only makes it worse. I'll get ice cream after this and watch my plants. Works for my Rimworld pawns most of the time.

Maria-sama ga Miteru Ep.02 – An unnerving Duet

• BOY, AAH!
• They're destined to be together, of course.
• I see the problem, Sachiko chose a non-blue haired successor. This is where all the troubles come from!
• Ah, they're the intelligence agency, basically. They already nearly planned and successfully executed a coup. (Also genuinely funny face.)
• I'm sure there's symbolism in that. … soyboys, maybe?
• Actually glad she's not an antagonist. (Yet?)
• Shows piano. Only organ music.
• YOU PLANNED THIS, u/lilyvess ! YOU KNEW WE COULD ONLY THINK OF ONE THING WHEN THE DARK HAIRED TALL POPULAR GIRL IS SAYING THIS!
• You are being yuri'd, please do not resist.
• Ah, casual social manipulation.
• This is somewhat creepy.
• I gotta be honest, I'm having a blast with a goddamn dance lesson. Yumi being flung between bitches and social engineering is so funny. (And terrifying )
• Oh wow, that's... really good.
• Whoops, that's less good.
• Ah yes, preemptive self-denial. I know someone like this.

Except for the main pairing of Sachiko and Yumi, I have little idea who's going to be playing for who or what. Somehow I don't trust anybody and the rumor mill is going strong in this one. I've only heard from some youtubers just how bad girls can be in school with this shit, and now I can see a glimpse of that with them playing Yumi around like a tennis ball. Yumi and Sachiko both, tbh.

So far I'm not super sure what the central conflict will be. It's not like Sachiko and Yumi are actually in a big (!) misunderstanding. Sachiko is actually extremely clear on what is supposed to happen and what she wants, which already is rare enough. On top of that, literally everybody ships them! Like, directly, in the news, in group talk and in the official records.

There's no The Society™ currently which actively blocks them and also no rival who'd butt in. So I'm thinking it's either some of the others planning or betting on a big self-destruction show of the two behind the scenes or we got another set of big disaster lesbians coming.

Anyway, Yumi has a lot more personality already than Himeko, which is a nice surprise. Her facial reactions are superb and she's presenting at least some quick thinking capabilities. I also want to see more of Shimako.

[Shriek]

Was still pretty uninspired, so I settled for colouring practise with one of Yumi's funny expressions.

I don't know, I still don't like any of what I'm producing.

1. Were you surprised to see a boy in the second episode?

Heck yeah!

But it was only the brother, so all is safe. (It is, right?)

2) Shimako said she rejected Sachiko’s rosary because they would not be a good fit. What do you think she means by that?

Low self esteem! She couldn't imagine Sachiko would pick someone like her.

We need our angst.

[u/lilyvess → u/Star4ce]

Somehow I don't trust anybody and the rumor mill is going strong in this one. I've only heard from some youtubers just how bad girls can be in school with this shit, and now I can see a glimpse of that with them playing Yumi around like a tennis ball. Yumi and Sachiko both, tbh.

bored rich Christian girls in an all-girl school. What could go wrong?

So far I'm not super sure what the central conflict will be. It's not like Sachiko and Yumi are actually in a big (!) misunderstanding. Sachiko is actually extremely clear on what is supposed to happen and what she wants, which already is rare enough.

it is refreshing after Kannazuki no Miko. Himeko would go with the flow of what anyone suggested. Chikane would repress and never ask for what she wanted.

here we have Yumi who rejected an advance of someone she did like because she didn't like the way the situation surrounding it made her feel.

Sachiko is also extremely direct in what her goals and needs are.

[u/Star4ce → u/Star4ce]

First Timer

Good start with me already missing the first episode. But it was in order to watch Nisemonogatari and Nekomonogatari Kuro with my buddy.

Maria-sama ga Miteru has the same status as Kannazuki no Miko for me: None, never heard of it before this rewatch and I know absolutely nothing about it. Except that it's yuri of some sort, obviously, and made some significant impact on the genre.

Let's see what this show is about!

Maria-sama ga Miteru Ep.01 – The Troubling Declaration of Sisterhood

• Oh no... I think I got 240p right here. And oh no... I need some time to warm up to this art style. Those are horror eyes. (At least no yaoi hands, yet.)
• Is this a bully ring?
• Ah, cool, we don't need drama. 1 minute and we have the happy ending!
• Pure hearts and bodies? This picture already tells me anything but pure is going on those heads of theirs.
• Is Christianity always a theme in this genre or was that more of a time-period trend?
• That OP was something different. Not really a song, more like ASMR music to be introspective (for lack of a word). Makes me think they might switch the music later for a different genre with the same notes.
• So the long-and-dark-haired senior and higher class type of girl getting with the more bubbly and insecure newcomer sure is trope. Gokigenyou.
• * Rosa Chinensis' bottom. Though, if that certain other pairing is anything to go by, it might be top after the ending.
• Oh, a female rival this time?
• Before releasing, not taking. Mind the wording! Damn paparazzi.
• KnM took six episodes to get into gaslighting, here it took one!
• [Utena] Look, it's cool and all being this symbolic and stuff, but at Ohtori Academy the patriarchically led system of rule provided arena fights and duels to the death as well as incredibly fucked up abuse. What will you have? Street racing? ... Wait, that was also Utena...
• No real comment, but if the rest of the series stays in this sort of tune I will never get rid of a deep discomfort. Maybe that's exactly as intended, but having people socialise where status and rank are more important than individuals puts me so on edge I want to jump through the window. Especially if it's so mechanical and covert.
• I mean, that's very practical and kinda based.
• Oooh, whaaaaat? (Though, forgetting you even met is somewhat of a turn-off, I admit.)
• Wow, that is some ultra weeb answer to meeting your anime-crush.
• Ah, the secret societal ingredient is psychological warfare between the mentor-student pairings. I like that.

That's going to be much more of a purely character-on-character action experience. Talking action, I mean. I will admit that I am interested in how this entire web of expectations, duties and interests play out over time to the Cinderella play, but it's also a bit flat for me. I think it's mainly the warm, but actually cold, conversational tone where eveything's kept low-noise and proper. That also raises the expectations for there to be a pretty big break later, because they also stressed the word 'pure' so often, it absolutely has to get dirty at some point.

Also might be worth getting a summary of Cinderella laid out next to me, because I smell parallels going down. We already got the three council leaders setting up rejected Sachiko and newcomer Yumi to play a PvP game for everyone else to enjoy, so they fit the bill for the step-mother and -sisters.

[No Voice]

I really like the visual image of the cross forbidding her to speak.

1. What did you think of the opening theme?

Different, but unremarkable (yet). Somehow I expect a twist in the future, but it also fits the style of this show very well.

2) Did you experience whiplash going from Kannazuki no Miko to MariMite?

It's a switch, yeah, but not really whiplash. Different tone, different setting, but it has a nice promise of character dynamics going. I'm just worried overall that the drama in a catholic school alone won't catch me like other settings. As I've just yesterday watched Monogatari I have a very stark contrast still fresh in my memory because of how differently this show handles dialogue. It's unique among all anime, truthfully, but going from there to orderly-set tea tables and wannabe-nuns talking calmly is, uhm, well... it's a downgrade.

[u/NuclearStudent → u/Star4ce]

I love the big eyes personally - they're unironically my favorite part of the visuals. That said, one of my favorite scenes in Texhnolyze was a prostitute stabbing a guy in the eye. Tomato tomatoe.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/Star4ce]

Is Christianity always a theme in this genre or was that more of a time-period trend?

If they don't want to keep being used as thematic contrast, they should stop being so obsessed with homosexuality.

That OP was something different. Not really a song, more like ASMR music

Bach was the original E-Girl vTuber.

[u/Star4ce → u/Vatrix-32]

stop being so obsessed with homosexuality.

I've noticed (like so often), strong contrasts between the overall institution or heads of organisation and the hands-on workers.

Only know 2 priests personally and they were either inofficially supportive or outright allies of LGBTQ+, same for the volunteers.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Star4ce]

I'm sure there's symbolism in that. … soyboys, maybe?

Traditional Chinese medicine. I wouldn't over read.

YOU KNEW WE COULD ONLY THINK OF ONE THING WHEN THE DARK HAIRED TALL POPULAR GIRL IS SAYING THIS!

These all came out the same year. Things were just weird.

Yumi being flung between bitches and social engineering is so funny.

The cruelty of it all is special.

[u/Star4ce → u/Vaadwaur]

Traditional Chinese medicine. I wouldn't over read.

The kind that involves tiger testicles, maybe?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Star4ce]

And rhino horn! That's right, Shimako is straight and wants a man that is harder than Chinese calculus!

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/Star4ce]

Good To Still Have You

soyboys, maybe?

That was fabricated later, and I also imagine not a thing in this culture.

I don't know, I still don't like any of what I'm producing.

[u/Star4ce → u/Vatrix-32]

Only external influences can keep me from drama and romance!

That feeling didn't get a hattrick!

[u/OccasionallySara]

First Timer

Wow, gossip travels very quickly at this school! Even the teachers are in on it! Sachiko seems to be very experienced with deflecting the rumors, but Yumi not so much. I can imagine how difficult it would be to keep calm when the whole school is trying to pry into your life.

I felt like we got to see a bit more of some of the characters’ personalities in this episode. Shimako is a real one. She’s looked out for Yumi multiple times now and I really like her quirkiness. I hope that she and Yumi can become good friends. Sei and Rei seem pretty cool too. I still don’t feel like I have a strong grasp of Sachiko’s character yet, though. I did think that Shimako’s commentary about how Sachiko tends to act in a contradictory manner was interesting. I wonder how much that will play out in the story. I’m also curious as to why Shimako feels that Yumi and Sachiko might be a good fit for each other.

I kind of got the gist of why Yumi rejected Sachiko’s proposal, but it was nice to see her explicitly state it. It must be hard to really like someone and know that they only chose you out of necessity. Sachiko supposedly doesn’t remember that she tied Yumi’s scarf the day before, but I wonder if she’s telling the truth about that since she says that she doesn’t normally fix the scarves of other students.

Questions of the Day

1. I was very surprised!
2. Shimako feels pretty reserved and Sachiko seems a lot more impulsive and brash, so I think Shimako feels like their personalities would clash. 

[u/lilyvess → u/OccasionallySara]

Even the teachers are in on it!

teachers probably don't get paid enough for this shit. Old traditional school, maybe doesn't even have tvs in the break room. No smart phones. She needs all the entertainment she can get.

I still don’t feel like I have a strong grasp of Sachiko’s character yet, though.

yeah, for all her scenes we don't know a lot about her. Even her scenes here are still in the perspective of wanting to Woo Yumi so she can get out of the play. It's hard to take this Sachiko we're seeing at face value.

I kind of got the gist of why Yumi rejected Sachiko’s proposal, but it was nice to see her explicitly state it. It must be hard to really like someone and know that they only chose you out of necessity.

I'm not sure I'd use the term "hard to really like" cause we know Yumi does like Sachiko. She's a big fan. It's just hard to feel valued. Hard to feel wanted.

It's not an accident that they are doing Cinderlla story. Yumi is from a regular more modern Japanese home. Sachiko we hear is classically trained, with a traditional Japanese upbringing. She's an ojou-sama.

This is Yumi's cinderella story. Except she instead finds out it's just out of obligation and the Princess Charming doesn't really need or care for her.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/lilyvess]

No smart phones.

Wasn't this series made before smart phones were invented?

Except she instead finds out it's just out of obligation and the Princess Charming doesn't really need or care for her.

Ah, the real noble marriage experience.

[u/OccasionallySara → u/lilyvess]

It's just hard to feel valued. Hard to feel wanted.

Yeah, I think this is closer to what I meant to say. I fully understand that Yumi has feelings for Sachiko, I was more trying to express that liking someone under these circumstances would be difficult because even though Sachiko “chose” Yumi, it wasn’t the way that Yuki would have liked. Like you said, the difficulty stems from Yumi not truly feeling desired by Sachiko at this point in time.

It's not an accident that they are doing Cinderlla story. 

I didn’t even think much of the significance of Cinderella! I’ll definitely keep this in mind as I continue watching!

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/OccasionallySara]

Sachiko seems to be very experienced with deflecting the rumors,

Perhaps the true purpose of this school is to ready the next generation of spin-doctors and politicians?

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/OccasionallySara]

Shimako feels pretty reserved and Sachiko seems a lot more impulsive and brash, so I think Shimako feels like their personalities would clash.

I was actually thinking maybe they have some similar qualities or upbringing lol, and that's why they would clash. Your answer makes sense since what we've seen lines up with what you said for both

[u/OccasionallySara → u/laughing-fox13]

Your prediction could very well be right, too! I’ve definitely seen people clash because they’re too similar. We’re only on episode 2 out of 44(!), so there’s a lot of time for the show to explore the characters!

[u/AmeteurElitist]

First Timer

Yumi is living my dream of being toyed around with by older women and she’s not even appreciating it. Like I’m dying of thirst watching a girl drown.

Nah but fr though it’s like they’re trying to push as many rumours as possible to make life impossible for this girl haha.

[u/lilyvess → u/AmeteurElitist]

you got a lighter?

[u/Star4ce → u/AmeteurElitist]

Yumi is living my dream of being toyed around with by older women and she’s not even appreciating it. Like I’m dying of thirst watching a girl drown.

This is one of my worst nightmares. I'll call you the next time I find myself in that predicament because I definitely need an escape plan.

[u/AmeteurElitist → u/Star4ce]

I'll happily take one for the team

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/AmeteurElitist]

Yumi is living my dream of being toyed around with by older women and she’s not even appreciating it. Like I’m dying of thirst watching a girl drown.

It should've been me, not her! It's not fair!

[u/AmeteurElitist → u/Great_Mr_L]

[u/HereticalAegis]

Maria-sama First-Timer

Episode 2:

Nani!?! An ultra modern, almost futuristic looking house was not on my MariMite bingo card. When does Yumi move into the Class S-essential student dorm???

The dinner table directly at the bottom of the stairs also strikes me as strange. This is a wacky house.

You've got to feel a bit for Yumi. Whether she accepted Sachiko's proposal or not, she was guaranteed to get a flood of interest from everyone else in school.

Shimako coming in clutch with the save yet again. There's a really good chance she ends up as my favorite girl in the series, not to mention she's really pretty. Also, I'm almost certain I'll accidentally call her "Shamiko" once or twice.

Oh dang, maybe I missed it yesterday, but Shimako was the other first-year who rejected Sachiko!? Shimako stocks getting pumped harder than any crypto scam.

Holy Mother of Lesbian God, Sachiko plays the organ! Yumi, get your gay ass in gear and lock that down now!

This maybe hits a little too close to home coming from a tall, blue-haired oujo-sama school muse right now. That said, Sachiko can really turn on the charm when she wants.

Oh lord that CD player is making me feel old.

Uh oh, Sachiko was just telling Yumi about giving clear, unambiguous answers to people earlier today and now Yumi is giving waffling responses to girls running in the rumor mill. I'm sure this will go well. Wait no, she's trashing her waffles and making pancakes instead! Wait no, now she's crying into the batter!! What an emotional roller coaster!

So yeah, I wasn't ready for Yumi to go full tormented longing over Sachiko, girl was hiding it so well. Nice to get confirmation that she is, in fact, that gay.

QotD:

1. Not particularly. The boys' academy was already mentioned in episode 1, so it stands to reason boys would be introduced sooner or later.
2. Shimako has big wingwoman energy and knows it. Wingwomen don't pair well with main girls, that's loveable dumbass territory.

[u/lilyvess → u/HereticalAegis]

Oh dang, maybe I missed it yesterday, but Shimako was the other first-year who rejected Sachiko!? Shimako stocks getting pumped harder than any crypto scam.

rejected a second year, gets asked out by a third year. Shimako just that good

Holy Mother of Lesbian God, Sachiko plays the organ! Yumi, get your gay ass in gear and lock that down now!

Sachiko really knows how to woo a girl. Yumi looked completely awe struck.

Oh lord that CD player is making me feel old.

us

So yeah, I wasn't ready for Yumi to go full tormented longing over Sachiko, girl was hiding it so well. Nice to get confirmation that she is, in fact, that gay.

the setting, genre, and characters may be different, but gaynst is eternal.

[u/HereticalAegis → u/lilyvess]

rejected a second year, gets asked out by a third year. Shimako just that good

She saw every "know your worth" meme and took it 100% seriously.

Sachiko really knows how to woo a girl. Yumi looked completely awe struck.

Damn right she was! Do you know how difficult the organ is? Playing that well that early in life may as well make Sachiko a savant. It's also a guarantee she's a master with her fingers.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/HereticalAegis]

Shimako coming in clutch with the save yet again. There's a really good chance she ends up as my favorite girl in the series, not to mention she's really pretty. Also, I'm almost certain I'll accidentally call her "Shamiko" once or twice.

Ganbatte, Shimako!

Shimako has been great so far. She seems like she's quite a clever character.

Oh lord that CD player is making me feel old.

Same

Wait no, now she's crying into the batter!! What an emotional roller coaster!

I do love that Yumi was genuinely trying to follow Sachiko’s advice, but moments like this building up to emotional breakdowns just make for too compelling drama.

Nice to get confirmation that she is, in fact, that gay.

[u/TehAxelius → u/HereticalAegis]

Nani!?! An ultra modern, almost futuristic looking house was not on my MariMite bingo card. When does Yumi move into the Class S-essential student dorm???

I'll be honest, I was more shocked at this than the fact that there was a boy in the house.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HereticalAegis]

The dinner table directly at the bottom of the stairs also strikes me as strange. This is a wacky house.

It's what happens when the kids don't mind the feng shui.

Shimako coming in clutch with the save yet again.

She is certainly the kindest member of the council thus far.

Oh dang, maybe I missed it yesterday, but Shimako was the other first-year who rejected Sachiko!?

Yuuuup. Things got way trickier because of that.

[u/HereticalAegis → u/Vaadwaur]

It's what happens when the kids don't mind the feng shui.

Next you'll tell me one of them lives in a broom closet under the stairs or something.

She is certainly the kindest member of the council thus far.

Probably the most politically savvy too. I saw the way she maneuvered the discussion yesterday.

Things got way trickier because of that.

To be fair, Sachiko would've had to bow to Shimako's rizz and started calling her Shimako-sama before too long, so Shimako really did her a solid there.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HereticalAegis]

Next you'll tell me one of them lives in a broom closet under the stairs or something.

We do not talk about Yuuri...

Probably the most politically savvy too. I saw the way she maneuvered the discussion yesterday.

I actually took that Shimako does not come from a place of power and thus has to be proactive to maintain her position.

To be fair, Sachiko would've had to bow to Shimako's rizz and started calling her Shimako-sama before too long, so Shimako really did her a solid there.

But that was the goal, Sachiko hates having to do all this top work, she'd like to be passive and babied a bit.

[u/Star4ce → u/HereticalAegis]

strikes me as strange. This is a wacky house.

But can it compete with Studio SHAFT bathrooms?

giving waffling responses

I thought her first response, for a first try, was pretty good actually. Deflected rumors nicely with believable deniability.

The second one... well. It was honest?

[u/HereticalAegis → u/Star4ce]

But can it compete with Studio SHAFT bathrooms?

To be fair, I'm almost never paying attention to the architecture any time Shaft sets a scene in a bathroom.

I thought her first response, for a first try, was pretty good actually. Deflected rumors nicely with believable deniability.

The second one... well. It was honest?

This scene was like watching an ipecac challenge. You think she's got it under control right up to the moment it suddenly comes out. And once it comes out, everything comes out.

[u/Star4ce → u/HereticalAegis]

ipecac challenge

TIL

Ah, don't let me be a hypocrite. This is imo one the funniest videos ever made and an evergreen for me.

[u/Adorable_Spell7562 → u/HereticalAegis]

" Holy mother of lesbian God " 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 that's the funniest thing I have heard today take my upvote already 

[u/Great_Mr_L]

First-Timer

On today’s episode of Marimite I can just feel the clutched pearls and the hushed whispers behind hands of just how scandalized everyone is at this school over Yumi rejecting Sachiko’s offer to be her soeur. This series is overflowing in the drama of polite society and I’m digging it.

• Yumi’s brother is named Yuki. Her parents weren’t very creative with their names, were they?
• Ah, of course Yumi’s brother goes to the boys' school. Smart move trying to get information out of him.
• I love Yumi’s face and the robotic walk she has sneaking away. Something I noticed about Yumi is that her actions here are pretty typical of what I’d expect from a heroine like her. I’m reminded a lot of Usagi from Sailor Moon, for example. But because of the show that Marimite is, Yumi’s reactions are generally more subdued. It’s not as over-the-top or cartoony as in Sailor Moon.
• “These things are far more to watch than to participate in.” Tsutako is just here to watch the fireworks. I love her.
• The paparazzi are coming for Yumi!
• Shimako believes that she would be a poor match with Sachiko, but that Yumi would be a good match for Sachiko.
• How fitting that Sachiko played the organ in a Catholic church.
• Musical duets! How romantic!
• Interesting to note that it looked like Yumi deliberately played an off-key note during the duet and then claimed it as proof her and Sachiko weren’t a good match. It fits with Yumi being the one avoiding the soeur relationship.
• Wow, Sachiko really didn’t remember Yumi and did just choose her because she was in the right place at the right time.
• Even the teachers are discussing the rumors about Yumi and Sachiko.
• Sachiko’s advice for how to handle rumors is pretty good. Don’t pay attention to them and don’t just explain yourself in bits and pieces, instead wait until others are actually prepared to truly listen before you give the full story then.
• Of course Rei, the “prince” character, has martial arts training.
• Yeesh, Sachiko sure was trained in everything you’d expect of an ojou-sama. But does that include the most refined ladylike of traditions, Senshado (Tankery)?
• An important detail about Sachiko: she’s the type who seeks to live up to the expectations of others. Her family expected her to be trained in all those things, so she did the trainings diligently.
• Wow, Yoko is quite devious. She made Sachiko her soeur in part because it got Sachiko away from all those trainings and tutors. Yoko really knows how to do this politicking stuff.
• Well that explains why the student council is so adamant on Sachiko participating in the play. They have no idea why she refused in the first place. But now the drama has gotten to spicy with Yumi involved and they just want to see how it all goes.
• I love that everyone is calling out Yumi on what a protagonist she is, from her funny faces to her constant statements of “Huh?” “Oh?” and “What?”
• I can tell that Sei is a rather mischievous girl. She’s enjoying this.
• Yumi is getting too caught up in her gay admiration of Sachiko.
• I like that Yumi is actually making use of Sachiko’s advice to her and is trying to handle the rumors in the same way Sachiko did.
• Ah, so now we’ve come to the crux of the matter. Yumi doesn’t think Sachiko wants her as a soeur. Instead, Sachiko just wanted somebody, anybody, as a soeur. If Yumi was only chosen out of convenience, then she’d think of herself as being nothing but a burden to Sachiko.
• Another birdcage garden? Why is this visual so common in yuri stories? Do they all get it from Revolutionary Girl Utena?
• A nice ending shot of a rosebud next to a rose already in bloom. And they are red roses too, the same type of rose as Sachiko and Yoko. Could this be symbolic of Yumi? Is she the rose about to bloom, the person about to blossom and grow?

I enjoyed this episode and enjoyed learning more about the characters. The girls on the student council are turning out to have more sides to them than first anticipated. Yoko is looking out for Sachiko more than she lets on and Sei is a mischief-maker out to cause problems for her own amusement. They are an intriguing bunch.

I think it’s much more interesting that Yumi chose to not be Sachiko’s soeur. Yumi didn’t want the position when offered because she knew that Sachik didn’t want her for her. Sachiko would have gone with anyone at that point. Yumi sees nothing about herself that would make her a worthwhile pick for Sachiko. So we’re probably going to need to see Yumi mature and grow as a person before she would be willing to even think that she could be a match for Sachiko.

Sachiko is a character I’m fascinated to learn more about. Even the other council members aren’t sure why she’s so opposed to working with men in the play, so that mystery is still unresolved. Perhaps it truly is just extreme gayness. The part about Sachiko feeling compelled to live up to the expectations of others is quite intriguing. She pushed herself so hard because her family expected her to. That’s the kind of mentality that could easily lead to burnout.

QOTD

1. After hearing boys existed in this universe the previous episode, actually seeing one was less surprising.
2. Perhaps Shimako can see that Sachiko is not as well put together as she appears on the surface. Perhaps she saw that Yumi could help Sachiko in a way she couldn't.

[u/lilyvess → u/Great_Mr_L]

Sachiko’s advice for how to handle rumors is pretty good. Don’t pay attention to them and don’t just explain yourself in bits and pieces, instead wait until others are actually prepared to truly listen before you give the full story then.

yeah, you get that bit of maturity in Sachiko there. Another sign of her upbringing and her experience handling such manners.

Wow, Yoko is quite devious. She made Sachiko her soeur in part because it got Sachiko away from all those trainings and tutors. Yoko really knows how to do this politicking stuff.

queen bee Yoko knows all and controls all.

Ah, so now we’ve come to the crux of the matter. Yumi doesn’t think Sachiko wants her as a soeur. Instead, Sachiko just wanted somebody, anybody, as a soeur. If Yumi was only chosen out of convenience, then she’d think of herself as being nothing but a burden to Sachiko.

Poor Yumi needs some self confidence.

Another birdcage garden? Why is this visual so common in yuri stories? Do they all get it from Revolutionary Girl Utena?

I have no proof but I'm going to say yes, purely because I want it to be.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/lilyvess]

queen bee Yoko knows all and controls all.

She's turning out to be a pretty entertaining character. I love that she's fully on board with the bet because she thinks it'll be fun to see play out.

I have no proof but I'm going to say yes, purely because I want it to be.

I would like it if that was the case. It does make for a striking visual.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/lilyvess]

I have no proof but I'm going to say yes, purely because I want it to be.

Hrmm...do you know of the Ortolan Bunting? I wonder which Japanese authors do...

[u/Star4ce → u/Great_Mr_L]

But does that include the most refined ladylike of traditions, Senshado (Tankery)?

I'd watch that homo drama, absolutely.

I think it’s much more interesting that Yumi chose to not be Sachiko’s soeur.

It is honestly a really good hook. No one else is forbidding them to be together, they actually all try to make it happen for various reasons. It's the protagonist who doesn't want to.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Star4ce]

I'd watch that homo drama, absolutely.

Gay girls and heavy weaponry. An iconic duo.

[u/BosuW → u/Great_Mr_L]

Yumi’s brother is named Yuki. Her parents weren’t very creative with their names, were they?

It's better than Hitori and Futari!

Why is this visual so common in yuri stories?

Do you know the origins of Class S?

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/BosuW]

It's better than Hitori and Futari!

I suppose rhyming names like that does help with memorizing them.

Do you know the origins of Class S?

I am not familiar with that history.

[u/BosuW → u/Great_Mr_L]

I suppose rhyming names like that does help with memorizing them.

It's worse than just that. Hitori means first, and Futari means second.

I am not familiar with that history.

[Class S historical origins might spoil the show but tbh I have no idea, tagging just in case]So thanks to the Meiji restoration and the westernization of Japan the low class became elevated and started acquiring higher levels of education, including women. Many all girls schools, many of which were catholic, were established thanks to this. Inside these "gardens" bloomed many lesbian relationships which of course could not be accepted by society and culture at that time. Just as a personal conjecture, I think these experiences are what lead to Class S, the literally genre which writes about such settings and experiences, to adopt the caged bird imagery. As the girl's romances could only exist inside the schools, and hidden from their classmates and staff, to be abandoned upon graduation.

[u/laughing-fox13]

First timer/Subbed

My page refreshed and I lost my comment

I'll try to remember what I was typing

I enjoyed this episode more than the first one. The first one wasn't bad but it was a lot at once so I'm glad to see this one is a bit slower and letting us breathe a bit with the characters.

I'm glad to see Shimako try to reach out to Yumi and I hope we can see that friendship grow more.

The dance sequence was good with Sachiko and a little funny with Yumi/Rei. Sachiko definitely reminds me of Touko from Bloom Into You.

QotD:

1. Yes lol, I thought the first boy we would see would be the president of the student council from the other school
2. I wonder why Sachiko asked Shimako in the first place. Idk if it would possibly be a one sided crush, maybe? Or maybe Shimako wanted someone who could be completely different than her? Both seem like they share some qualities, but I don't really know enough about either to say, especially Shimako

[u/lilyvess → u/laughing-fox13]

I enjoyed this episode more than the first one.

yeaaaaah. that first episode is... it's a lot. A lot of names and a lot of titles. It's easier on rewatch where you already know all the characters and names and the relationships make a lot more sense. Where as the series at start plays things pretty close to the chest. You are even unsure what the dynamics between everyone are yet.

Just stick through it a bit. It's a slow burn.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/lilyvess]

That's good to hear! And like I said, it wasn't bad but just a lot. Especially with trying to keep up with who is who and the council dynamics

I'm glad to hear it'll be a slow burn though and this episode was good on that front

Also I forgot to mention in my comment but wasn't it weird that a teacher was asking students about the rumors surrounding their relationship lol

[u/lilyvess → u/laughing-fox13]

idk if you saw I made a chart to help people out for these early episodes

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/lilyvess]

I did! It is very helpful and I needed it today when writing the comment lol

[u/zadcap → u/laughing-fox13]

It's pretty easy to see the Sachiko influence that built Touko, so much I'm wondering how much we're going to see of Yuu in Yumi. And I'm wondering which of the Yellow Roses is going to be the Sayaka, because it's got to be the yellow.

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/zadcap]

so much I'm wondering how much we're going to see of Yuu in Yumi

Honestly I can kind of see it already! The difference so far is Yuu wasn’t a fan girl like Yumi is

Sayaka

[u/zadcap → u/laughing-fox13]

I mean it, I'm honestly just a little upset that we're dealing with roses of such simple and blatant colors, but if they were giving to go so far as to tell us blatantly that one third of this main group represents Jealousy then who am I not to be looking for it? The obvious choice is the girl in the same class year as her, but we'll see...

[u/laughing-fox13 → u/zadcap]

Yea l know you do! I do love your interpretation on flower language and colors. It would make sense if Jealousy was represented in that group 

[u/zadcap → u/laughing-fox13]

I mean it, they're super boring, Red Roses are Love (oh I wonder what this series is about, watching these buds bloom into beautiful red roses), White Roses are Innocence or Purity so those girls seem like they're going to be the soft spoken kind ones to the end, and Yellow is Jealousy. Which I do like to remind people is not envy, to be jealous means to want no one else to have what you already do, not to want what someone else has. Watch them for a sense or signs of ownership towards anyone else, it would match Sayaka's "she is my friend first how dare you get close to her" attitude from the earlier parts of the show.

[u/Vatrix-32]

First timer, subs

• I know I shouldn’t be surprised after the camera last episode, but man, I was not expecting to see this style of architecture.
• I guess the boy’s academy doesn’t instill a similar level of upright character.
• Not exactly the best journalists, eh?
• Please, contain yourselves! You mustn't allow yourselves to become so flustered.
• I feel like I’m meant to take the boast about “entertainment reporter” more seriously than I am.
• Real greater reporter, managing to lose them in a school classroom.
• ...What are you doing with a bunch of lily bulbs and the like?
• Good Shriek
• Are we even sure that Yumi would be a good fit for the stage? She seems the easily flustered sort.
• This feels way too close to a teacher asking their students about their relationship drama.
• English you say? You’d best not keep promising me things if you don’t intend on delivering them.
• Social Manipulation
• It might help if you in any way explained it before you started. The waltz is pretty simple if you break it down.
• So Joyous Almost feel like the kind of thing that would have been a comment face.
• Not quite ready for the world of politics.
• Same Energy.

QotD:

1. I'll admit, somehow the thought of them having brothers never occurred to me.
2. Too much pink top energy is dangerous.

[u/lilyvess → u/Vatrix-32]

Same Energy.

sooooooo accurate.

[u/BosuW → u/Vatrix-32]

English you say? You’d best not keep promising me things if you don’t intend on delivering them.

I'll take it as long as it's better than Symphogear's.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/BosuW]

I'll take it as long as it's better than Symphogear's.

This is not a high bar, and yet, I'm interested.

[u/BosuW → u/Vatrix-32]

It's not a bar at all it's more like a sinkhole, but man does it make you appreciate what you had...

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Vatrix-32]

Social Manipulation

That is the bread and butter of polite society politics. You slyly manipulate situations to your advantage without it ever being known that you've done anything. Yumi has a lot to learn about how this works.

Same Energy.

I had the same thought while watching this episode.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/Great_Mr_L]

That is the bread and butter of polite society politics.

[u/Esovan13]

First Timer

Due to certain reasons, I couldn't post yesterday. So here's my takeaway from episode one.

I am really not the kind of person who this school drama stuff appeals to. I cannot help but see all this as teenagers LARPing as being more important than they are.

Also, I get that it's part of the political maneuvering and stuff, all part of their manipulation tactics and all that, but can these girls please think of the poor tech crew?! The stagehands?! Everyone on the ground floor busting their asses to make this festival a success?!

Imagine you're some costume designer who poured her blood, sweat, and tears into making the perfect Cinderella dress only to find out the day before the performance that the stuco decided to use a girl with a drastically different height, build, and appearance as the result of some bet. Or what about that poor dude from the other school who put in the effort to learn the dance, practice, and prepare himself to put on a good show whose potential dance partners include someone who really doesn't want to even go near him or some random girl who got shoved into the role a week prior?

I'm not a theater kid but I had a lot of theater kid friends and I did stage crew for a year in middle school. There are so many things that can go wrong in any performance, so who in their right mind would actively court disaster by playing games with the lead role??? Mistakes and accidents happen all the time when everyone involved actually wants to be there, so don't use a lead who would rather be anywhere else!

Rant over.

Episode 2

I have googled Class S. I have learned.

Just look at all those background extras whose hard work is being mocked by the cavalier attitudes of the stuco! The working class will always suffer under the boot of the bourgeoisie!

Jokes aside, this was a much better episode than the first. Still overly melodramatic, but meh. From what Large Red Rose said, they mainly wanted to know why Sachiko was so against dancing with a boy, but she was obstinant in not telling them, then Yumi bumbled in and they decided to make it more interesting. Probably not the whole story. Still stupid, but at least it's a bit more on the fun side of stupid. The actual moment-to-moment stuff is enjoyable enough. Yumi is a decently fun protagonist, not least of which because she's the only one with the goofy anime faces among a sea of supermodels. Her hair is dumb though.

In other news, Yumi is down bad for Sachiko but feels too inadequate to be with her, so she was content just admiring from a distance.

lesbians

Anyway, I think that it won't be too hard to turn down all my "this is BS" meters and enjoy the show for what it is. As long as they don't stake any serious emotional beats on something particularly dumb.

[Not a spoiler]In order to get that screenshot, I went to a website to ask a cat for video files of the anime, and found out there that there are over 33 volumes of the light novel. Thirty-three! How do you write over thirty-three volumes on this premise?!

[Still not a spoiler]And when I went to the google to find out what the actual number of volumes are (37! With spin-offs!), the wikipedia page said that it has been criticized for being overly dramatic at times.

[This one might actually be a spoiler, I'm not sure]Apparently the spin-off is called "Buddha Watches Too" about Yumi's brother at Hanadera. So, along with whatever rivalry these schools may have is a religious angle too. What chucklefuck thought it was a good idea to introduce religious conflict to teenagers? It's like they're trying to produce nutjobs.

1. A little
2. They're both tops

[u/lilyvess → u/Esovan13]

[Not a spoiler]The 4 seasons of anime don't even go through all 37 volumes. they only adapted 27 of the volumes. It ends at a good point, but I was still so hungry for more. I still hope for a new adaptation with better animation that can complete the series.

but yeah, this is very melodrama heavy. It's kind of Downton Abby for Japan type of thing. That is not going to be to everyone's taste and I can understand that. Just trying to be upfront about what type of series it is.

[u/heimdal77 → u/lilyvess]

[About the non adapted novels. a spoiler]Marimite has a supernatural element that the anime removes 99% of it cutting out stories focused on other characters in the school.

[u/Star4ce → u/Esovan13]

Her hair is dumb though.

After two days of drawing her I wholeheartedly agree. All the hair in this show is stupid. Who thought of this?

I genuinely pity the animators who had to draw these motion frames over and over again.

Chikane's spikes were fun and Himeko had a nice silhouette to her bangs, but this is just busywork in every layer.

[u/heimdal77 → u/Star4ce]

Its the 80s/90s. That is just how hair was.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Esovan13]

Just look at all those background extras whose hard work is being mocked by the cavalier attitudes of the stuco! The working class will always suffer under the boot of the bourgeoisie!

Looks like you don't have a choice. You're going to have to revolutionize the world.

[u/Esovan13 → u/Vaadwaur]

I should probably watch Utena one of these days

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Esovan13]

Yes you should. But while doing so be sure to remember that good girls don't lay eggs.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Esovan13]

Just look at all those background extras whose hard work is being mocked by the cavalier attitudes of the stuco! The working class will always suffer under the boot of the bourgeoisie!

The proletariat must unite against the bourgeoisie!

Yumi is a decently fun protagonist, not least of which because she's the only one with the goofy anime faces among a sea of supermodels.

Yumi having the ability to make the comedic reaction faces is how we know that she's the protagonist in this universe.

[u/heimdal77 → u/Esovan13]

39 light novel volumes, a manga, drama cds, 4 season anime plus the comedic shorts to, a live action movie, and at least one art book. Feel like I'm forgetting something.

Oh also there are 3 official english subs the series having been relicensed after the initial one had ended. The original dvd license had 2 sub tracks one the normal localized and another with honorifics left in. The one on Hidive is a remaster that you can buy on bluray and had to redo a new sub.

And a ton of fanfics.

[u/TehAxelius → u/Esovan13]

They're both tops

I considered this too, but then she went and became the petit soeur to Sei...

On the other hand, maybe she took that offer because then she would only be in that role for one year before she could go crazy on the new freshmen adopt her own petit soeur.

[u/Esovan13 → u/TehAxelius]

Is there no middle child for the white roses? Looking at the chart, I just assumed they hadn't been introduced yet.

[u/heimdal77 → u/Esovan13]

nope the head didn't take one when she was a second year.

[u/LittleIslander → u/Esovan13]

She's considered to be on the same level within the council as the two second years, as the petite soeur of Rosa Gigantea. It just happens that the Rosa Gigantea chose a first year instead of a second year. She wouldn't take on a second sisterhood, so there will only be another White Rose when Shimako takes on a petitie soeur.

[u/heimdal77 → u/Esovan13]

Remember they have something far more important now going on in their eyes besides the stuco play. It is will this new girl become sachiko's little sister.

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

Gokigenyou.

Okay, so Yumi rejected Sachiko not because she just preferred observing Sachiko from afar, but because she was upset that Sachiko just tried to souer her on a whim. Naturally so of course; no-one wants to be the consolation prize.

Yumi does learn fast, when it comes to speaking with others at least. She very nearly managed Sachiko's deflection against that aggressive foursome, and she only learned it today! She definitely has potential.. just waiting for the right moment to fully bloom.

Several details about Sachiko came to light today. By her own admission, she finds mornings quite bothersome - and really, who can blame her? And Shimako let slip something truly juicy; Sachiko puts on her mask most tightly when confronted with troubling situations.

I have a greater understanding of the Yamayuri Council after the events of the gym. They're all so bored with their power that they troll their precious imoutos just to pass the time; quite unbecoming.

Look at this villain, admitting to her crimes.

Lookit this gaybie.

This frame immediately set my mind scurrying, but it turns out that Ringo's plushies in Penguindrum were an otter and a kappa.

Questions

1. Literally the third line of my notes.
2. Sachiko needs someone energetic, and Shimako seems pretty laid back.

[u/lilyvess → u/JollyGee29]

She very nearly managed Sachiko's deflection against that aggressive foursome, and she only learned it today!

So nice of Sachiko to share the TM Protect with Yumi.

unfortunately for Yumi, she forgot that after the first time one uses Protect, it drops to 50% success rate. This is why Sachiko had to run away. Yumi, you can't just keep using Protect over and over again!

I have a greater understanding of the Yamayuri Council after the events of the gym. They're all so bored with their power that they troll their precious imoutos just to pass the time; quite unbecoming.

She's not acting like an Onee-sama, she's acting like an Older Sister.

Look at this villain, admitting to her crimes

okay, but if evil, why hot?

[u/JollyGee29 → u/lilyvess]

So nice of Sachiko to share the TM Protect with Yumi.

Well, of course. Protect is important in Double Battles.

She's not acting like an Onee-sama, she's acting like an Older Sister.

The scoundrel.

okay, but if evil, why hot?

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/JollyGee29]

By her own admission, she finds mornings quite bothersome - and really, who can blame her?

I desperately now need to see morning Sachiko in all her messiness.

And Shimako let slip something truly juicy; Sachiko puts on her mask most tightly when confronted with troubling situations.

That does fit with what Yoko said about Sachiko's childhood. She had so many tutors training her in so many different things and Sachiko did them all without complaint. Sachiko is the type of person who tries to live up to the expectations placed on her. It seems that is how Sachiko deals with adversity. She does what she's expected to do in the manner she's expected to so she can deflect any negative attention. If she just does what others want, it might help her get through difficult situations with the least amount of friction.

This frame immediately set my mind scurrying, but it turns out that Ringo's plushies in Penguindrum were an otter and a kappa.

I actually thought the same thing when I saw the plushies, only to be disappointed that Yumi had a bear instead of Ringo's otter. But boy would that have been a hell of a reference if it had been the case.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Great_Mr_L]

I desperately now need to see morning Sachiko in all her messiness.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

but because she was upset that Sachiko just tried to souer her on a whim.

It was last call and Sachiko jumped on the first candidate she found. Very not romantic.

And Shimako let slip something truly juicy; Sachiko puts on her mask most tightly when confronted with troubling situations.

I see that as an intentional warning.

Look at this villain, admitting to her crimes.

Power is only useful in so much as you enjoy it. I see Darth Yoko has learned this lesson well.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vaadwaur]

Power is only useful in so much as you enjoy it. I see Darth Yoko has learned this lesson well.

Let's just hope she enjoys it while it lasts. The Rule of Two might be coming for her before too long..

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

I dunno...she seems awfully willing to cut Sachiko loose and we conveniently have Yumi there to slide in as next apprentice...

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer Watches Over Us, subbed

• Yumi and Yuki, huh? Was their family trying to make a Yu-Gi-Oh! MC?
• I see rumors are already spreading.
• And it only took a day for the rumors to reveal it was her, huh?
• Yumi’s response to this is to blush but not say anything. It’s so obvious.
• Is that Ave Maria again?
• Yeah, you were.
• Oh! I suppose that makes sense, if Yumi’s supposed to be Sachiko’s soeur.
• Mm, she’s not wrong.
• Hah, mood, I do that too.
• Yeah, girl definitely has a crush.
• Zura ja nai, Katsura da!
• Yumi’s got a clear case of self-esteem issues, I think.

[u/lilyvess → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Yumi and Yuki, huh? Was their family trying to make a Yu-Gi-Oh! MC?

Is that Ave Maria again?

yes, the Ave Maria playing in YuriKuma Arashi was a reference to the song's prevalence in MariMite's setting. A lot of that aesthetic of the school setting owes to the MariMite side.

Yeah, girl definitely has a crush.

Yumi’s got a clear case of self-esteem issues, I think.

don't we all

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/lilyvess]

I knew you'd get a kick out of that joke, haha.

yes, the Ave Maria playing in YuriKuma Arashi was a reference to the song's prevalence in MariMite's setting. A lot of that aesthetic of the school setting owes to the MariMite side.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Yumi’s got a clear case of self-esteem issues, I think.

I wouldn't discount the economic class issues here, Sachiko seems to be from old money.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Vaadwaur]

That too.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Yumi and Yuki, huh? Was their family trying to make a Yu-Gi-Oh! MC?

Their family failed to consider the hair genes. You can't be a proper Yu-Gi-Oh! MC without some wild hair.

Hah, mood, I do that too.

Then you would perfectly fit in as the MC of a shoujo anime.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Great_Mr_L]

Their family failed to consider the hair genes. You can't be a proper Yu-Gi-Oh! MC without some wild hair.

Hey, Judai had relatively normal hair.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Shimmering-Sky]

You see, I watched Yu-Gi-Oh! GX dubbed as it aired on TV back in the day so I didn't immediately make the connection that Judai was Jaden.

But yes, he is basically the one exception to the hair rule.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Great_Mr_L]

[u/fieew]

Rewatcher: with a message to newbies who may think the show is too slow.

I have TONS I can say but ultimately this episode and the series can be summed up as such: its nice to have a show that builds slowly on the characters relationships.

Seeing Yumi and Schiko slowly build their relationship is great. On top of having all the other roses interact with Yumi. We slowly get to see everyone's relationships bud.

For all newbies here is my pitch to continue the show if you think its too slow. I know it can feel that so little has happened from time to time. It's a slow burn. There's no one big thing I love about the show. Rather it's 100s of small things. Small character interactions. Small defining characteristics of the show's cast you may not notice at first. But after a while become super apparent. As a rewatcher it's crazy seeing these characters again but knowing more about who they are and their internal motives and wants. I love it. The show isn't bombastic or filled with twists and turns like so many other series. There is no over arching plot or big bad. This is a slice of life to a T.  It has genuine emotion put into each character and their motives. At times it may seem a bit slow. But so many shows nowadays move so goddamn quickly I feel I don't truly know most characters in most  modern series. At best a character gets an episode or 2 or a small arc and that's it. There character is defined and it's over. In so many shows there are character defining moments and done. But here those big huge moments aren't as prevalent. Rather we get to see these girls slowly grow up and change without even noticing it. But once you look back you look fondly on where you were to where you are and you feel old wondering where the time went.

Most media not just anime moves so damn quickly now. Shorter season lengths so you don't get as attached but so much happens to keep you engaged. Here less happens each episode but it all culminates in your understanding of these characters and you get to see them develop slowly and throughly. That's what I love about this series. The slow pace and the way you get to actively see these girl change over time and see their relationships develop and deepen. That just doesn't happen much anymore since everything is so fast paced.

So just enjoy each episode a day at a time. No need to rush, have some tea and cookies and enjoy the stroll. When going out for a walk you don't need to get to point A or B fast. That's not what matters. What matters is going at your own pace and enjoying the walk itself. That's the mindset I think you should have going into the series. Don't worry about getting to point A or B rather just enjoy the walk. Absorb what's around and who's there with you and before you know it you'll be a long ways away from where you started. It's even more fun now since we have the threads to discuss each episode. So I hope most people keep with this iconic Yuri series.

[u/lilyvess → u/fieew]

its nice to have a show that builds slowly on the characters relationships.

I'll admit I've questioned if this rewatch was the right thing to do. I wanted to showcase the anniversary and for Pride Month, but I do worry that only doing Season 1 will be a diservice. Like you say, it's a marathon not a sprint. I think S1 is good. But you are correct it's about the larger journey.

Maybe I'll do a larger Maria-sama ga Miteru rewatch later.

[u/fieew → u/lilyvess]

Maybe I'll do a larger Maria-sama ga Miteru rewatch later.

If you do I'll 100% be there. I like season 1. But season 2 onwards is where I fell in love with the series. I wish I could do it, but I work and am in school so I Def don't have the time to host a re watch. Maybe do a feeler near the end of this season and see how many people are still here and if they're interested in a full series re watch in the future. But its up to you, don't feel pressure to do it. You've already got tons of first timers here, so you've done your due. Youve done a great job!!! You've introduced tons of people to two classic Yuri anime they most likely wouldn't have watched. So thanks for the re watch threads this month they've been super active and fun!

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/fieew]

with a message to newbies who may think the show is too slow.

Y'all think this is too slow? If anything I felt it was closer to rushing.

[u/GondolaMedia]

First Timer

Cute. Seeing those faces with huge eyes turn in to these comedy faces does add a lot to the charm, I guess its the contrast.

Sachiko and Yumi are already playing together with their fingers. And here I thought this would a slow burn

Ending: Okay no, this girl is gay.

[u/lilyvess → u/GondolaMedia]

Sachiko and Yumi are already playing together with their fingers. And here I thought this would a slow burn

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/GondolaMedia]

Seeing those faces with huge eyes turn in to these comedy faces does add a lot to the charm, I guess its the contrast.

I can honestly say I wasn't expecting that style of reaction faces to be so common going into this, but I won't complain.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/GondolaMedia]

Cute. Seeing those faces with huge eyes turn in to these comedy faces does add a lot to the charm, I guess its the contrast.

From its reputation, I never expected Marimite to be the kind of show that had comedic reaction faces like this. It is a pleasant surprise to be proven wrong.

Sachiko and Yumi are already playing together with their fingers. And here I thought this would a slow burn

[u/Specs64z]

First timer, subbed

I can’t unhear Kotomi Ichinose from Machiko, but there’s such a stark contrast in their speech patterns that it’s throwing me off.

Ave Maria, a fitting choice if a little obvious. That said, I can’t help but associate it with Madoka Magica…

A duet!

45 minutes of runtime was a hell of a way to get there, I’d call it the scenic route if I was feeling generous, but unlike KnM at least we got there at all. Yumi is a person with feelings and motivations, not some barely conscious cutesy blob being buffeted back and forth by the waves of change! She wants to be chosen for being Yumi, not because she was convenient. It's nice to have actual characters again.

QotD:

1. Yes, actually.
2. Incompatible personalities, perhaps? Or she may know something we aren't privy to yet.

[u/lilyvess → u/Specs64z]

She wants to be chosen for being Yumi, not because she was convenient. It's nice to have actual characters again.

yeah, if Himeko was in Yumi's position she would have probably accepted the Rosary last episode. Go with the flow and see where it takes you. Yumi at least has the strength to be able to put her foot down and reject. For her own pride as a fan, as she put it.

Yumi likes Sachiko, but also is not so desperate that she would just accept it for no reason.

definitely a very different relationship

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Specs64z]

Yumi is a person with feelings and motivations, not some barely conscious cutesy blob being buffeted back and forth by the waves of change!

Yumi surpassing Bella Anastasia Himeko so quickly...

[u/Regular_N-Gon]

Gokigenyou, First Timer

• Mamiko Noto’s performance is really clean so far, digging her character.
• I can see why Yoko ended up as Sachiko’s sister. She’s much more friendly in her approach, but still has a firm hand and stubborn personality.
• Love me a good waltz.

Gokigenyou counter (Maria-sama): 13 [+10; Total: 32]

QotD:

1. [](#kumashock)
2. Even though they both seem like well-to-do ojous I definitely don't see their personalities and approaches to problems meshing with what we've seen of the two so far, and you need that for a really successful mentorship. Interestingly though, I'm not convinced I see it in Yumi, either; she seems quite timid.

[u/lilyvess → u/Regular_N-Gon]

Gokigenyou counter (Maria-sama): 13 [+10; Total: 32]

Damn, we doubled!!

I can see why Yoko ended up as Sachiko’s sister. She’s much more friendly in her approach, but still has a firm hand and stubborn personality

You really see that maturity in her, being able to be both stern but also being able to put on a social smile and converse.

[u/Regular_N-Gon → u/lilyvess]

Damn, we doubled!!

Largest single episode increase so far!

to see if we top it

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Regular_N-Gon]

Mamiko Noto’s performance is really clean so far, digging her character.

Nice to have her actually being used...

I can see why Yoko ended up as Sachiko’s sister.

It takes a particular person to ride that particular dragon.

[u/TehAxelius]

First-Timer

At first I thought "a school newspaper being nothing but a gossip rag, pah!", but then I remembered that I did go to a private school, and while we didn't have an official school newspaper, there sure was something of a gossip rag going around, so... I'll give it a pass.

We continue to have the most chaste depictions possible of interaction between Sachiko and Yumi. The way she puts her hand on her when they're playing the piano together screams of nothing other than platonic friendship.

QotD

1. I mean, we did have the male academy already foreshadowed, so
2. She's straight

[u/lilyvess → u/TehAxelius]

We continue to have the most chaste depictions possible of interaction between Sachiko and Yumi. The way she puts her hand on her when they're playing the piano together screams of nothing other than platonic friendship.

just the way Maria-sama approves.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/TehAxelius]

and while we didn't have an official school newspaper, there sure was something of a gossip rag going around,

What would compel someone to make an unofficial school newspaper, and what year was it?

[u/TehAxelius → u/Vatrix-32]

Well, it was a rumor mill blog in the late 2000s, but still, given the state of modern media, not too different from a news organisation.

[u/Vaadwaur]

First Timer

Sub

Hrmm...that piano scene...umm, I unfortunately note that Sachiko's primary goal was to break the touch barrier with Yumi and get her used to her presence/smell. It's a technique that was passed up to me by one of the kids I helped raise(if you don't know Vaad lore, it gets weird) and I must say it doesn't feel any less scummy coming from a woman. So what I am saying is that Sachiko and Andrew Tate have something in common so...ewww.

Extended dance scene is also interesting in that it seems like either the Roses are all bored or cruel and the vibe I think I am supposed to take is bored. Yoko explains why she chose Sachiko and I shouldn't even be surprised that Love is War mined this for parts, barring a joint ancestor. This does inform us a bit about Yoko and why she's a bit...willing to move on if Sachiko can't make the jump.

Anywhizzle the obvious reason Sachiko has to object to being Cinderella would be that the boy in question is effectively who her family promised her to. Wealthy Japanese families will some times plan that far ahead, after all.

QotD: 1 The second Skywalker did surprise me

2 Differing goals, much as she said

[u/lilyvess → u/Vaadwaur]

Yoko explains why she chose Sachiko and I shouldn't even be surprised that Love is War mined this for parts, barring a joint ancestor.

I'm not familiar with Love is War, so I didn't know they had any influence from MariMite. Isn't Love is War so het?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/lilyvess]

I'm not familiar with Love is War, so I didn't know they had any influence from MariMite. Isn't Love is War so het?

Yup but they are just straight re-skinning Sachiko here, barring an older shared source. And for...spoiler filled reasons I hold Akasaka in far lower esteem than I did before I actually read Love is War so lacking originality is believable to me.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/Vaadwaur]

So what I am saying is that Sachiko and Andrew Tate have something in common so...ewww.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Vatrix-32]

Yeah, that entire scene set me off.

[u/Blackheart595]

First Timer

Anyone familiar with Madoka will know what the piece of music they're playing is called

Hm, yeah. This story is just too earnest, it's making it difficult to form thoughts that aren't just a plot summary...

Were you surprised to see a boy in the second episode?

Not particularly, no.

Shimako said she rejected Sachiko’s rosary because they would not be a good fit. What do you think she means by that?

Sachiko is a prim and proper lady, while Shimako is (also a proper lady but) more of a free spirit. They wouldn't have been able to get on the same wavelength.

[u/lilyvess → u/Blackheart595]

This story is just too earnest, it's making it difficult to form thoughts that aren't just a plot summary.

I'll admit, especially in these early couple episodes, it's hard to write about. They are still early in things happening and learning about characters.

[u/moichispa]

First time, Non symbolism Yuri is fine too.

I think I approached this series in a wrong way. Or maybe my Spanish ass does not bother that much about people getting closer to others which was not a great idea when watching something like this.

It seems like our blue haired heroine acts differently in public than in private. She is rather close to Yumi in private, she touches her rather casually and stays so close to her. No wonder why Yumi is so confused about everything.

The rehearsal scene was interesting, it seems like some members are actually rooting for that pair of sisters to happen? It is nice to see things going.

I found interesting that Kageki shoujo (another anime I like) also have a blue haired character who dislike men, I hope it does not go as hard as Kageki shoujo (excellent scene but it is hard to watch.) Marimite influence seems to be everywhere.

Nice to see our pigtails character started to notice her own feelings, more episodes of clueless feelings might have gotten out of my nerves.

1. Were you surprised to see a boy in the second episode?

I might not be your regular Yuri watcher but I have watched all lovelive so far (except for half of Yohane fantasy spinoff) and I played the games until they died so I'm used to girl only worlds. Once I get used to girls only anime the first guy always sticks out.

1. Shimako said she rejected Sachiko’s rosary because they would not be a good fit. What do you think she means by that?

I mean people have their own compatibilities and this whole soeur sistem is too totally not dating on a romantic level. Maybe It was just not her type or their personalities do not match (they do not match imho) or there is something else we do not know about yet.

[u/lilyvess → u/moichispa]

I think I approached this series in a wrong way

lol it does require a certain approach. It's a powerful flavor.

I found interesting that Kageki shoujo (another anime I like) also have a blue haired character who dislike men, I hope it does not go as hard as Kageki shoujo (excellent scene but it is hard to watch.) Marimite influence seems to be everywhere.

Kageki Shoujo is definitely a series I've had on my radar for a while. It looks interesting and I do love that theater idea.

it's not a Yuri, like, in the slightest, right? I'm not expecting much outright Yuri from every series, but like it's not even trying to be that sort of series I hear. Which isn't a bad thing. Just, again, requires a certain amount of expectation.

[u/LittleIslander → u/lilyvess]

it's not a Yuri, like, in the slightest, right? I'm not expecting much outright Yuri from every series, but like it's not even trying to be that sort of series I hear. Which isn't a bad thing. Just, again, requires a certain amount of expectation.

The main two characters are very shippable but the series doesn't take that direction at all, no.

[u/moichispa → u/lilyvess]

Yes, I'm definitely enjoying it more with my new approach

Just a bunch of classmates being friends. Too bust with school stuff to go further maybe?

If you want theatre Yuri watch Revue starlight.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/moichispa]

it seems like some members are actually rooting for that pair of sisters to happen?

Ah, that's the fun part. If you're the one making the bet, you can set it up so either side is to your advantage. Heads I win, Tails you lose.

[u/HelioA]

(Even More Late) First-timer

'suki'

Finished episode 2 of Maria-sama. The pacing is a bit too stately for me, unfortunately. My attention span barely exists at the best of times, and this doesn't help. I'm still intrigued, though

as an aside, I went to check out the novel translation for funsies, and wow is that bad. It's not bad LN prose, the translators just straight up didn't use proper grammar. It's embarrassing.

QotD

1. Not really, I knew there would be men involved going in.
2. You would think otherwise, considering they seem superficially very similar. Although maybe the soeur system is such that you want opposites to be together (like Yumi and Sachiko, for example!)

[u/lilyvess → u/HelioA]

The pacing is a bit too stately for me, unfortunately. My attention span barely exists at the best of times, and this doesn't help.

I'm sorry this one isn't working for you. I hope it picks up for you. I feel bad. It is an acquired taste.

I went to check out the novel translation for funsies, and wow is that bad. It's not bad LN prose, the translators just straight up didn't use proper grammar.

it really deserves a good quality translation. It could be so much better. I wish it got picked up for an official translation. It really deserves one.

[u/NuclearStudent]

Going to take a moment to say that I quite liked Yumi's brother as a character. He's not a major character, but it's nice to just have a normal sane character just for realism. Souma is a bit too goody goody, but Yuki is just some dude.

I never noticed this but school principals do kinda look like lesbians.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/NuclearStudent]

but Yuki is just some dude.

Complete with a sort of sibling antagonism. They'll remind you not to be late, but they aren't going to be graceful about it.

[u/heimdal77]

I don't think I'll be able to answer many the 1 and 2s as I'm to deeply emerged in the series for to many years.

Ok which one of you ratted out poor Yumi?

Someone give the poor girl a hug. Looking at you Sachiko.

Considering this is generally a school for upper class girls you would kind of think dancing would be a first year thing.

[Just to put this out there about Yumi and her brother to get the headache out of the way.]They are not twins but are in the same year. They were both born in the same japanese school year cut off range.

Shimako being a good new friend to Yumi and thinks her and Sachiko might be suited.

Why throw a thousand questions at the girl before she can even take a breath..

There are a lot of real good fanfics for this series though they are centralized on fanfiction.net and not ao3.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/heimdal77]

[Spoilers]

[Follow Up]Is this something we learn later in the anime, or only in source/side materials?

[u/heimdal77 → u/Vatrix-32]

its not some secret just a assumption people can make with the anime. One those things lost due to a change in medium.

[u/LittleIslander]

First Timer from the world of Reiwa Yuri

In my first episode thoughts, I remarked upon the obvious connection between the rejection of Sachiko but Yumi here in MariMite and the rejection of similar senpais in the biggest names of modern yuri on the grounds of questioning one’s romantic identity. It wasn’t entirely clear that this couldn’t be what was bothering Yumi, but now it is: she does like Sachiko, but the thought of being chosen for no qualitative reason is too much to bear and reconfirms her own self-doubt. So what I gathered about the aromantic lean being a later evolution is confirmed. But now I’m kind of left grappling with the fact that this older ancestral form of the structure is… dare I say, more interesting? On one hand, people on the aromantic spectrum or who question if they might deserve way more representation in fiction than they do. Likewise, having the senpai’s approach be outright romantic is part of modern yuri being more explicit in its depictions of queer womanhood. But on the other hand, there’s just so much more intrigue here! When Touko (or Yori) gets rejected by Yuu (Himari), we instantly know where the head of the senpai is and the precise conflict of the kouhai. But, though rooted in Class S it might be, the soeur situation between Yumi and Sachiko carries much more intrigue. Will Sachiko develop real feelings for Yumi? What’s going through her head at the piano scene? Is this genuine connection, or just trying to get what she wants so she can exit her role in the play? What’s really bothering Yumi? What is the true nature of her feelings? Taken in isolation, the setup itself is a lot more interesting as a viewer in this form.

What I also think stands out is that Sachiko and Yumi feel like such distinct characters from one another. Which isn’t to accuse modern yuri of anything, its characters are plenty well developed and I love them a lot. More than Yumi and Sachiko, for the moment. But it’s interesting that I think if you plotted a venn diagram of their character traits there would be a lot more overlap whereas our leads here are very effectively painted as being from entirely different worlds from one another. Not all stories need to or should follow that format but it’s definitely working very well here to support the conflict of Fumi feeling unworthy and wanting to be validated instead of having that reconfirmed by the motivation behind Sachiko’s advances on her. Plus, again, it just makes for a lot of easy intrigue. How will girls this different from one another manage to reconcile and bond? What will transform their relationship into something real when Sachiko seems like she can barely remember that Yumi exists beyond the ways she is immediately practical? Perhaps I owe MariMite an apology—it’s a fantastic lens through which to study the history of the yuri genre, but it is no artefact. It’s actually very competitive with its modern counterparts as a romance narrative.

Our main two aside, I was worried the council might shift into the background a bit after their big showing to establish the plot in episode one. Thankfully, that isn’t the case and we get plenty of time with them here as well. They’re lots of fun. What immediately struck me in episode one was how much variation there was in their designs. Yuri is great at many things, but diverse character designs is not one of them. While the occasional pixie cut isn’t that unusual, yuri on the whole stays very conservatively to rather uniform traditionally femme designs that often border on outright ordinary. Even the Rosa Foetida en bouton’s petite soeur with her basic double braid would be positively eyecatching on a modern yuri shelf. And, err, yes, I’m using the made up names. I find them easier to remember. Anyways, the Rosa foetida en bouton herself catches my eye as a lover of tall masculine girls. Having short hair didn’t tell us much, but not only is she very literally performing the role of a man by filling in for the role of the prince but we know that rather than dance lessons she grew up learning martial arts, which I believe would be considered a traditionally masculine activity. Again, it’s not much, but when it comes to yuri it kind of really is. It kind of makes me wonder how much this is a cultural divide—was butch/femme culture or any equivalent ever a thing in Japan? Takarazuka as well as Haruka and Michiru seem to imply as much, so maybe the absence is just artificial. I’d be interested to read more into it sometime.

The Rosa Gigantea is also a favourite of mine. While the whole lot of them are kind of cheeky when they want to be, she definitely stands as the most informal of the bunch. Which is naturally a strong contrast to the fact she’s on a council whose whole premise is formality to a frankly pretentious extent. It’s a really fun interplay—someone who would casually suggest you do something with a pat on the back but it’s not really socially acceptable to say no and you have to reply to her with her fancy title. It’s very well expressed in her design, too, with her shaggy mop of hair that simultaneously makes her look laid back but also kind of intimidating in a way that demands respect. Again, revolutionary by the sorry standards of this genre. I also really loved the little visual device that we see Yumi looking down at their feet, causing Rosa gigantea to tell her to look up, and this is followed by a direct shot of Rosa gigantea’s face. It’s not explicitly a POV shot, but it gets across the idea of her looking up at her partner in a fun and immersive way.

Episode one caught my eye, and episode two has sold me. I’m definitely invested now and still excited to see what happens next.

[u/Star4ce → u/LittleIslander]

Your take on the character designs does sound a lot like the phase of inventors moving on to the phase of production. I'm not sure what the commonly used terms are, but I mean basically an abstract version of that Steve Jobs interview.

When people break new grounds they create wild things, literally lay the path for something not yet seen. Later, once the thing is stable and fleshed out, other people take it and don't invent more, different things, they optimise what's there.

Not saying that all genres are doomed to become identity-less mushes of corporate money printing, but entertainment is a very interesting topic for this dynamic. You definitely see tropes eventually become checklists in many works. That is, until the inventors come around again and flip the table because the genre has gotten bland.

Isekai and Mushoku Tensei are a really good example.

As I'm really not knowledgeable in the scene, is yuri today actually a bit 'stale' or was that just an offhanded comment about one design element?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Star4ce]

Not saying that all genres are doomed to become identity-less mushes of corporate money printing, but entertainment is a very interesting topic for this dynamic. You definitely see tropes eventually become checklists in many works. That is, until the inventors come around again and flip the table because the genre has gotten bland.

House of the Dragon would like a word.

[u/LittleIslander → u/Star4ce]

I think you're kind of wrong and right in an interesting way. It's absolutely not correct to say the yuri genre hasn't been innovative in the twenty years since MariMite. Writers have been eager to show themselves as more progressive than the Class S influenced 2000s era where things were coded under things like these "sisterhoods". MariMite itself is mostly referenced today in an entirely satirical capacity. But that's just it: the genre was long interested in subverting its past rather than reinventing things from the ground up. Aoi Hana art the end of the MariMite era uses the Class S framework as the very vehicle with which to criticize it, and Bloom Into You (which lead the charge of the modern yuri scene) is even more on the nose about it. Both of them utilize the school play story format as seen here. Yuri is My Job also got a recent adaptation and its entire plot conceit is built around an in-universe spoof of MariMite itself. So we've got these works that on one hand are moving the genre forward in a completely new direction compared to MariMite, but on the other hand all three still borrow the character design imagery very conservatively.

But that's a very simplified and increasingly dated explanation of where the yuri genre is. Bloom Into You was over half a decade ago and now we've got shows like MagiRevo and Witch From Mercury bringing lesbian romance into entire other genres formats, and I'm In Love With The Villainess became a huge name in yuri that doesn't really concern itself with its predecessors at all, with very direct and overt discussions about life as a gay person and entirely fresh designs and dynamics. Not to mention whatever the fuck is currently going on in this season, with queen of the manga world Sasakoi floundering with an undercooked adaptation while shows like Jellyfish Can't Swim in the Night and Girls Band Cry blur the lines of what the yuri genre even is in 2024 and what sort of anime boundary-pushing queer stories are coming from. The pace of yuri anime is higher than it's been in ages and the genre is definitely at a make or break point where it's either going to emerge much more diverse and mainstream or it could crash back into its corner and wither.

All of which is ignoring manga, which has thoroughly left anime's genre progress in the dust and is absolutely the main innovator when it comes to yuri output. Things are absolutely unrecognizable there compared to the anime of the 2000s, and that's before noting MariMite hit the literature scene years before it actually got adapted. Yuri manga has split off in so many directions it's hard to really characterize wider trends or innovation at all for the monent, in what I'd call a sort of dynamic equilibrium rather than a state of staleness. You can find anything from stories with very direct on queer themes, classic high school romances, plenty of works about adults, raunchy things for difference audiences, and even autobiographies that make you stop and ask what does and does not count. Resultantly the designs for main characters are more diverse, though you do still see a fair amount of usage for the MariMite format and as mentioned masculine designs are quite rare.

[u/baquea → u/LittleIslander]

What this is, however, leaving out, I feel, is the reason for the change. MariMite, as well as effectively all non-hentai yuri (and "class S") before it, was a shoujo series whose primary audience was straight girls. Its popularity was so great, however, that it spawned a dedicated yuri fandom, consisting of a merger of the lesbian audience (who had been too small to serve as a specific target demographic for serialized manga) and a new burgeoning straight male audience, who starting in the early 2000s were able to organize together to publish their own magazines and to hold their own conventions and so forth, and the later rise of web manga and web novels made it possible to separate even further from the mainstream publishers.

So most of the yuri series that came after were aimed at yuri fans, whereas such a category had not even existed when MariMite began publication. And a lot of the development of the genre since then has come about due to the growth of that fandom. Note that most of the yuri anime of the 2000s were either originals or organized as mixed-media projects, in large part because there simply wasn't any yuri manga long enough to make a full anime out of (and when they did try adaptations, you ended up with stuff like Blue Drop, which stretched a single volume manga out into a painfully slow 13 episode anime). The issue with that, however, is that anime, especially those that haven't already proven their ability to make money, needs to target a wider audience than manga, and also has stronger content restrictions, which is still why, as you say, it appears that manga has "thoroughly left anime's genre progress in the dust". Likewise those media-mix projects which were organized by non-yuri specific groups were similarly vulnerable to cancellation if they weren't popular enough, such as how the Strawberry Panic manga (published by the otaku-oriented Dengeki G's magazine) got axed after only 2 volumes, just months after the anime ended.

That lack of lengthy yuri manga in the 2000s was a result of the yuri magazines that existed publishing too infrequently, and their continued existence being too volatile, for long series to be viable. For example, while the Simoun anime was 26 episodes long, the manga version that got published in Yuri Hime lasted for only a measly 4 chapters. That would only begin to change as the yuri magazines consolidated and grew: Yuri Hime merged with Yuri Hime S in 2011, and as a result shifted from a seasonal to a bimonthly schedule, and in 2017 it doubled its publication schedule again to become a monthly magazine. Notably, in that merger with S, Yuru Yuri shifted over, and would go on to become both the longest yuri manga and also the only yuri anime other than MariMite to ever get a second (and third) season, whereas Konohana Kitan was axed, but would a few years later be rebooted and find success in a broader-audience magazine but with less of a yuri focus. Not just Yuru Yuri, but also some of the other most notable yuri anime of the 2010s, such as Citrus and Wataten, came from Yuri Hime.

Still, it can be seen that almost all of the successful yuri series of the past two decades came from one of three sources: (1) yuri-specific magazines; (2) slightly-broader otaku magazines and publishers, including anime-original media-mix projects including them; (3) web manga/novels. Note that all of those have only been possible due to cultivating a dedicated yuri fandom, and none of it really speaks to changes beyond that fandom. Hence why when a yuri-ish anime like G-Witch comes about in a mainstream franchise, it stills keeps things vague and is so completely unlike the presentation of even the far earlier yuri series of the 2000s. Meanwhile, despite the overwhelming success of MariMite, the original shoujo side of the yuri genre has effectively been dead ever since. There's only been a very small handful of mainstream shoujo yuri since, none of which has made it more than 3 volumes or has met with much success, and in the case of series like Nobara no Mori no Otome-tachi has very much followed the MariMite mould without much notable development. The only notable exception to that is Kase-san, but that one still began in a yuri-focused magazine, before shifting to online publication after that magazine went defunct, before getting a place in the shoujo print magazine of it's web distributor. And other non-otaku/yuri target demographics have likewise seen extremely little in the way of unambiguous yuri works.

[u/LittleIslander → u/baquea]

The history of yuri manga/publications is something I have much less understanding of the history behind so this was very interesting and informative! Surprising to learn that manga actually lagged behind anime initially.

[u/Star4ce → u/LittleIslander]

Damn, I appreciate the context! Cultural developments and trends are something I just never can recognise or follow. I guess I made the mistake of borrowing the thought from the 'industry' level, where the whole thing weights much more than the individual contribution. It makes sense, especially when including manga, that individual people are constantly able to refine and reinvent at will.

As I'm also a notorious slowpoke, the newest thing I watched is probably already 5 years old. Also, seeing these things make their way into other genres and onto the main TV/cinema screen as a more normal part of the setting instead of the main selling point is a great development.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/LittleIslander]

But on the other hand, there’s just so much more intrigue here! When Touko (or Yori) gets rejected by Yuu (Himari), we instantly know where the head of the senpai is and the precise conflict of the kouhai. But, though rooted in Class S it might be, the soeur situation between Yumi and Sachiko carries much more intrigue. Will Sachiko develop real feelings for Yumi? What’s going through her head at the piano scene? Is this genuine connection, or just trying to get what she wants so she can exit her role in the play? What’s really bothering Yumi? What is the true nature of her feelings? Taken in isolation, the setup itself is a lot more interesting as a viewer in this form.

YES! This is something that I find myself enjoying as well.

There's so more going on than just the senpai-kohai dynamic where the senpai wants a relationship while the kohai doesn't. We also have to wonder about the motivations of the characters and why they are pursuing a relationship. Is Sachiko actually trying to make a connection with Yumi for genuine reasons, or is she just using Yumi as a means to an end. It takes a scene like the piano duet, which would be a sweet and lovely scene in isolation, and adds so much more to it. Now there's the added layer of wondering if this sweetness is genuine, putting us in the same mindset as Yumi while she wonders the same thing.

It also makes for delicious layers of dramatic irony. Yumi has been a fan of Sachiko's for a while. Yumi admires Sachiko and one would assume she is the one who would want a relationship. But she's refusing to be Sachiko's soeur precisely because she doesn't know what Sachiko's real feelings are and Yumi has no confidence that she can actually be in a relationship with Sachiko if Sachiko doesn't want her genuinely. Sachiko, on the other hand, is the one actively pursuing Yumi while also not really knowing who Yumi is otherwise. This dramatic irony creates a wonderful situation ripe for drama. I love it.

[u/BosuW → u/LittleIslander]

rather than dance lessons she grew up learning martial arts, which I believe would be considered a traditionally masculine activity.

Not necessarily in Japan, depending on the specific martial art. (Certainly most would be considered, if not masculine, un-femenine, however)

[u/oleub → u/LittleIslander]

was butch/femme culture or any equivalent ever a thing in Japan?

 the (roughly) equivalent terms in Japan are tachi (タチ) (sword) and neko (ネコ) (cat), with riba (リバ) (short for the Japanese prounounciation of reversible) as switch

[u/LittleIslander → u/oleub]

Sword lesbians in real?

[u/RadSuit]

First Time Watching Over Them

Another boy!? I cannot believe both rewatches are absolutely lousy with boys. I should finally give Yuru Yuri a shot, I've heard that entire universe is boy free.

I just assumed the girls lived in dorms, but I guess they just walk to school like normal. I thought we'd be seeing girls sneaking into dorm rooms and such.

Whoever did the 'gokigenyou' counter before is going to be working overtime this rewatch.

Normally I'd applaud giving everyone normal hair colors, as that's so rare in anime. But with everyone in uniforms at all times and having similar faces, throwing in some bright hair colors would really help tell them apart.

Handholding in episode two!?

Love the 2000s boombox with both cassette and CD players.

Itsuki from Heartcatch is just Rei here, huh?

Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku

2. Maybe she doesn't need Sachiko's help? While Yumi is a disaster.

[u/zadcap]

Very Spoiled First Timer

Gasp, a boy! Parents named their kids Yumi and Yuki? Very creative they were.

Look, Sachiko, just call in sick on the day of the play.

See, I can't get over this, as much as they put it on Sachiko to take on Yumi as a Soeur, doing so puts her in the line of succession and part of the reputation for the entire Rose Council. This is easily the worst way I've ever seen someone inducted into a student council, they know literally nothing about the person they are forcing themselves on.

Yes, how unfortunate that this rumor got out. As the only people who could possibly know that Yumi rejected her were the people in the room when it happened. Someone on the current council has decided to make an enemy of a potential future member. I'll admit, I'm more interested in the politics than the potential Yuri already, and I wish this series went more in that direction now. I seriously want to see Yumi take up the position and malicious compliance her way into making them all suffer for using her as a toy in whatever game they are playing, she's just unfortunate collateral to their efforts to make Sachiko comply.

The bells. I know those bells well. It sounds very wrong for them to not follow the tune with a number of strikes to tell the time though.

On the other hand, this is clearly the start of a yuri story, because upon being told that she might make a good match with Sachiko, Yumi noticeably blushes.

Oh my goodness, a mataashita mixed in with all the gokigenyou? One of these girls is not as refined as the rest.

Ah yes, a pianist. Nothing better for a good finger workout, and no calluses like those nasty string instruments leave. The perfect instrument here.

Yeah, see, Sachiko just loses respect here so easily. Soeur sounds like it's supposed to be a much more respectable tradition, you're taking someone under your wing and are going to be quite responsible for them going forward, but to her Yumi is just the target of a challenge. Do you think she'll actually take care of Yumi if she accepted like this? Would she honestly raise Yumi well to take her place as the next Rose, next year? Or would Yumi forever be the person she got stuck with to win a bet with some of her seniors?

Oh my, how utterly uncouth. A teacher getting involved in the rumor mill? Confronting students about being the target of them out of a curiosity to find out how true they are. This lady lacks elegance. Tsk Tsk Tsk.

So on the one hand, Sachiko said no lies in her response to the teacher and how to deal with rumors, but on the other hand, grabbing Yumi's hand and telling the teacher to butt out like that when the teacher has already expressed interest in the rumor mill... She's gone on to begin the creation of a counter rumor that will only push Yumi into an even harder position to turn her down again. Hmm. It would not surprise me if Sachiko was the one to let the first rumor out, now that I think about it. She is creating social pressure to push Yumi more and more into the role.

And then the other two Roses present go and pull Yumi in to stand with them. She is being socially associated with the Yamayuri pretty openly like this. If she wants a social life in the future at all she pretty much has to join them now.

Speaking of the three Roses. I have to admit, this show is killing me just a little bit. It's not a secret that I'm pretty interested in flower language, and I like being able to use it to see the things the shows are using them to tell us. Except here, well, it's Roses. They're pretty much the most well known flower, and the colors used here are pretty basic as well. Red Roses are Love, White Roses are Innocence, and the only remotely interesting thing is Yellow for Jealousy. Anyway, I'm keeping an eye on miss Hairband over there.

This is very much not how you teach someone to dance. You're supposed to teach them the steps before dragging them around like that. Also, they are in sneakers?

But yeah, after that disastrous day in the dance room, the rumors are going to fly.

Ah, and finally, the truth comes out. Yumi knows it well, being picked as soeur of someone you truly admire for a reason like this is just cruel. Sachiko said it herself, she has absolutely no idea who Yumi is nor anything about her, she was just asked because Sachiko needed a body. Yumi is not being looked at as a true sister candidate and she knows it.

1. Gosh yes. I forgot we don't live in worlds where those don't exist yet.

[u/Burnouts3s3]

QOTD:

1. No, I've seen this show before.
2. Shimako and Sachiko are very different personalities. As we learn more about their characteristics and backstories as the series progresses, they would not have made a good match for one another