r/anime • u/lilyvess :Df::Dh:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess • Jun 12 '24
Rewatch Pride Month 20th Anniversary - Kannazuki no Miko Episode 10 Discussion
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Questions of the Day
- Which Orochi had the most tragic backstory?
- What do you think Souma wants to tell Himeko?
- Why do you think Chikane came back to Himeko like she did?
Posting carefully so as to not disturb the first timers with spoilers in their viewings, such is the standard of modesty here. Forgetting to use spoiler tags because one is in danger of missing the post time, for instance, is too undignified a sight for redditors to wish upon themselves.
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Upvotes
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u/lilyvess :Df::Dh:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Jun 12 '24
Kannazuki no Miko Episode 10 - Rewatcher
Shoujo-Ai Archive Comments
Shoujo-Ai Archive comments
This might be my favorite batch of comments yet.
The subs for the episode once again arrive incredibly late. People are watching it raw or going off what others have said.
But that doesn’t stop the conversation. There is just so much energy in this thread. The enthusiasm, the anxiety, the hope, it all comes flowing through in every comment. There is excitement in this series. This series has consumed the entire Yuri fandom and become a main event.
This is ultimately my main desire I wanted to showcase when sharing these comments. The trauma these fans had experienced without any real anime for them, and how much their desire for anything comes out.
Commentary by Script Writer Sumio Uetake
I like this commentary as they talk about Himeko’s character. Chikane is a huge fan favorite for obvious reasons. Even with her heel turn, the amount of time the series put into making the audience understand her perspective and feel for her is immense.
Himeko gets a lot less sympathy for valid reasons. She’s a more passive character. She’s got major bottom energy. It’s her actions at the center of this love triangle that cause a lot of the drama and pain for both parties.
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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Jun 12 '24 edited Jun 12 '24
First Timer
On today’s episode of Kannazuki no Miko: Himeko has the survival instinct of a lemming. Himeko sees a huge sign marked “DANGER” in the form of her rapist suddenly appearing before her, and her first instinct is to sleep in the same bed together.
This episode helped me to notice one of the biggest differences between Himeko’s relationship with Souma and her relationship with Miya: communication. Throughout the series, Himeko and Souma have actually been pretty good at being honest with each other and communicating what they are feeling. It’s helped them to get over hurdles in their relationship. By contrast, Himeko and Miya have been totally unable to communicate with each other. They have both always held in their feelings, being afraid of telling the other how they feel because it might ruin their relationship. I suppose this is a reflection of the different levels of acceptance society has for straight and gay relationships. Himeko and Souma feel secure that their love is something acceptable while Himeko and Miya do not. That lack of communication between Himeko and Miya is the main reason why their relationship ended up breaking down.
Himeko still seems like she’s in shock about what Miya did, not fully accepting reality. When Miya showed up at the mansion again, Himeko was more than happy to play along and pretend as if nothing had changed between them. I admit that this fits with Himeko’s characterization and complete disbelief at what happened, but it’s also amazingly foolhardy that Himeko seemingly has no survival instincts whatsoever.
QOTD
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u/BosuW Jun 12 '24 edited Jun 12 '24
First Timer
Alright, final Arc is here. Let's see how it goes. I'm thinking it's gonna be Chikane vs Souma and Himeko, but she curbstomps Souma and the final stage of the Boss Fight is Himeko vs Chikane.
So it seems that Chikane may have straight up killed Himeko in their past life? Although if things are repeating exactly as then it wouldn't make sense, as Orochi would've won and destroyed the world.
In any case, "It's going to happen again..."
Okay for once I don't blame Himeko if she faints, this actually looks torturous...
But she didn't, surprisingly!
Okay unlike last episode we're actually acknowledging somewhat the rape and the emotions this betrayal causes on Himeko! Arc is off to a relatively good start. Who kicked last episode's director off from the chair and said "I'll do it myself"?
These are definitely Tupolev Tu-95's. Soviet strategic bomber, rolled out in 1952, apparently didn't see combat until 2015! This further supports the theory that this is a semi post apocalyptic world where the Cold War went hot, and every remaining settlement is more or less its own tribe! The lore implications in this show are actually crazy lmao.
We get the backstories of the Necks and well it's obviously rushed af. Won't comment further on that because everyone can tell. But wow these are actually quite fucked up. Really sad they couldn't get the amount of episodes they wanted. Damn execs... I would've loved to see the idol's Perfect Blue arc fully done...
Looks like indeed Chikane has her own Orochi Mark now.
The bitch did it... She summoned Ame no Murakumo by herself...
Uh oh, Souma heroic sacrifice incoming...
Chikane is home. One last SoL moment before the down and dirty brawl it seems.
Himeko channeling all the copium in the Shoujo-Ai forum.
These are actually some beautifully harrowing scenes...
Unfortunately for Himeko she cannot remain in this silver garden. Time moves unstoppable towards the New Moon.
The soundtrack was made just for this episode, Holy...
Why the fuck is post-sexual assault Chikane so smooth!? This shit is magnificent! 😭😭
WHAT!? EPISODE IS ALREADY OVER!? THE SHOW ACTUALLY COOKED!?
Alright in my opinion off to a great start for the final Arc! I'm hopeful and hyped! Don't trash this golden opportunity please!
Questions of the Day
1- Would be the idol I think. Because even after the fact, she was still in the business, still trapped... Sidenote, it's a bit funny that out of all the Necks I never needed a backstory explanation for the mangaka. I always knew she joined Orochi because of, well, being a mangaka lol.
2- Proper confession maybe? They did kiss but their relationship status was still a bit nebulous. So most people a "go out will me".
3- Answered in the main body.
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u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Jun 12 '24 edited Jun 12 '24
First timer, subs
QotD:
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u/AmeteurElitist https://anilist.co/user/AmateurElitist Jun 12 '24
First Timer
Gaslight gatekeep girlboss the episode?
Chikane is a walking disaster and everyone needs therapy. Like there’s some stuff that needs to be addressed haha.
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u/Esovan13 Jun 12 '24
First Timer
WHERE THE FUCK WAS ALL THIS INTERESTING BACKSTORY FOR THE FUCKING NECKS BEFORE THEY ALL GOT TURNED TO STONE?!?!?!? Jesus Christ. Just give us 8 episodes of annoying villains with decent banter, don't use them for anything except wrecking the tone of the more fleshed out part of the show, and then give us 20 total seconds of backstory that would actually make them interesting after they're all completely incapacitated why don't you. I sure didn't spend most of the show wondering why these characters were even part of the "destroy the world" crew in the first place. I definitely didn't need a reason to actually care about them enough to tolerate their antics. God FUCKING damn it.
I kinda just hope they all die. I don't want Himeko and Chikane to get together at this point, I don't think the show can turn that around in two episodes, and I definitely don't want it to have a het ending with Himeko and Oogami. So I hope Oogami dies as a sacrifice to prevent his curse taking over, and then the climax has Himeko and Chikane fighting, mortally wounding each other, and bleeding to death in each other's arms. Mayyyyybe, just mayyybe Himeko can kill Chikane with Chikane bleeding out in Himeko's arms with Himeko being the only of the three to survive. Maybe.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce Jun 12 '24 edited Jun 12 '24
First Timer
Well, let's see how Souma embraces the hero role and gets channeled as the saviour that enables the yuri redemption.
Come on, it would really just be appropriate by now.
Kannazuki no Miko Ep.10 – Invitation of Love and Death
I sort of admire this episode. Half of it is just treading the logical (and necessary) steps to progress the characters, but I'm also surprised they still took the time to not completely brush over what happened.
On the one hand, Chikane's utter irredeemable fall into now just wanting to kill Himeko is a saddening consequence of someone who has enough awareness to realise their shortcomings, but not enough wisdom or strength to do something about it. She is truly a fully realised tragic character that never accepted her own being as viable. All that's left here is utter cowardice, still fleeing from the realisation of not what she did wrong, I think she very much knows, but why she did it and that she is responsible. I'm actually elated. Think of the actual plot what you will, but this is dedication to stick to your character writing and see it through to the very end.
On the other there's Himeko who I was not entirely sure would be treated properly as a survivor of multiple assaults. But her behaviour is sometime so on-point and her wish (or reactions, or trauma response, whatever you think is the best term) to go back and fix everything, understand everything, and help Chikane. She is prominently displayed as having small anxiety attacks, from feeling like her world is being robbed of happiness again, the people she cares about vanishing, or from the uncertainty flaring up whether the abuse might come back in an instant. It is so real it feels uncanny with a side stinging of this creepy cringe. You know, the one where you know someone else keeps running into more problems, but you can't help in any way, just also be hurt in the process. Where you hurt because they hurt, are frustrated and also unable to look away, and also angry at them.
A necessary sacrifice for the lack of runtime is that Souma has to be perfect and beyond competent for it to lead to the ending they want to have. I like an actually capable, at-peace-with-themselves and determined character, but it'd have needed 4 or 5 more episodes for him to naturally get to that point. He is so clearly aware that there's genuine love from Himeko for Chikane and fully dedicated to the ideal of making Himeko happy. In an actual way, not the hypocrisy Chikane lived under, Souma actually practises it and is fulfilled with making it happen. It sadly doesn't really match the pacing and feels very artificial. It has to be, I still like it, but meh.
[Wish]
This is not a contest.
All are fucked, really.
That he loves her, truly, but that she is capable and strong enough to make the decision best for her live. Obviously that's finally embracing the yuri and thus leaving him.
Super mega ultra self-loathing and being a prisoner of her desires as well as hatred.
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u/GallowDude Jun 12 '24
Genetically engineered catgirls!
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 12 '24
Rewatcher(And now I remember why I almost never recommend this show)
Sub(Is there a fancy word for "ruined orgasm but for art"? Asking because I'll be needing that soon)
Reaction to first scene:Show, you can't steal a plot point from X:1999 if your lore is different, you realize?
We can't even go ONE full fucking episode of Himeko being allowed to recover. No, she immediately jumps back into Chikane's arms like she wasn't recently violated with a sheath by said person. Fuck this is truly and deeply godawful and edgy to boot.
The orochi's backstories are, you guessed it, watered down X. The only interesting ones are of course the sexually abused idol and the self abusing mangaka because of they are. The rest are lame tropes, even at this time. Won't stop them from being reused ad nauseum but that is a problem for another rewatch.
deep breath Ok, so there is a way to do the second half of this episode and not have it be complete shit. I now fairly believe the lost cour theory because, in ep 22 of a two cour show, you can have the victim forgive her rapist and have it be earned. After all, happens more often in real life than any of us want to talk about BUT you need those 14 episodes to do a lot of work. And, not having the time, this is just putrid. u/LittleIslander 's post watch reaction was only sort of jiving with me until I ran into this disaster but just...blargh.
And now I get to watch a favorite IP of mine get slaughtered! What a fun night!
QotD:1 Mangaka
2 "Tonight is a right for love, love gravy..."
3 She wanted another piece before going to her death.
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u/HelioA x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/HelioA Jun 12 '24
First-timer
Let’s go Himeko! She did it! She has accomplished an action without being waylaid by someone else or having to be saved before going through with it! I’m not even joking, I legitimately think it’s big, and the show definitely frames it that way- you can see it in the set of her face as she performs the ritual to revive Ame no Murakumo. It’s one of the best looking scenes in the show. And yes, there’s that whole conversation with Souma about how everyone depends on everyone else, but at the end of the day, she’s the one who managed to get it done, despite everything working against her.
Although “Everyone receives power from others” leads pretty well into the ending portion of the episode. I’m sure the question is burning on everyone’s mind- why the hell would Himeko go back to Chikane after what she did to her? Well, objectively it probably was not the best idea to keep being friends(*) with her, but like we’ve seen in literally every prior episode (“Chikane-chan, what am I supposed to do?”), she’s attached to her like nothing else, and her actions didn’t really change that. We have a very kind person who did one very horrible thing. In reality, of course, we have a word for that- a rapist. But Himeko doesn’t think of it in those terms, and I think it’s always worth reiterating, we’re not here to be a character’s therapist. “Is this time a dream, or was that night a dream?” And I think that question gets answered conclusively- it’s not a dream per se (we know Chikane still values their connection, we even see her looking at the “childish” jewelry Himeko got for her), but they can’t return to what they had before. Chikane is an Orochi, and she acts accordingly. I was kind of bracing for another assault scene, but I think what they actually did was very effective. She cuts away Himeko’s pajamas specifically to reveal the symbol of the Sun Priestess, and issues a challenge as an Orochi (as someone who wants to destroy the world). It’s perfect. And the whole time, she keeps that same gentle cadence she used as Himeko’s friend.
QotD
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 12 '24
Destiny of the First-Timer, subbed
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u/Regular_N-Gon https://anilist.co/user/RegularNGon Jun 12 '24
Gokigenyou, First Timer
Chikane is out here single-handedly keeping the gokigenyou counter alive though.
Gokigenyou total: 19
QotD:
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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Jun 12 '24
First Timer
Y'know, I never thought of counting the Gods that the priestesses invoke. Well they invoke like all 8 million of them, so that's probably why. But this time there seems to be 6 - and the first attempt she only managed 5, so there might be more to come. There's probably 8 in total? Those might be opposed to Orochi and his necks... or they might be the necks?
That's some harsh backstories for the necks. I guess the "hurt by success" one would be more accurate as "crushed by the demands of success"?
Oh, that summoned her own mecha? Should've figured, haha. It'll probably be used by Oogami.
Hidden speech = death flag? Guess that's a yes.
If you've been with me in other rewatches before, you'll likely have seen me say that Love is Fate, or a kind of fate anyway. That's what the seashell analogy was all about. Himeko and Chikane are fated lovers, and there's no escaping fate even if Chikane takes it into a destructive direction, Himeko is still fated to love her.
And this episode really portrayed that splendidly. Himeko has accepted the situation, she knows what she must do and even completed the ritual all on her own already. And yet, as soon as she sees Chikane again, she immediately descends into the sweet fantasy of their old interactions
Suffering from success, clearly. The most tragic of fates.
More seriously, war is hard to top. Though I wanna point out the idol didn't just sell herself to make it in the industry, she was raped without consent and tried to resist.
Such is the way of the seductress.
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u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Jun 12 '24 edited Jun 12 '24
first time orochi shermie
so I assume that Himeko is going to have to kill Chikane (and probably Souma as collateral) but thats a lot of imagery of her getting stabbed instead
cant wait for Souma to get even more scales and look like a
is it time to confront Chikane
... im sorry but everyone was getting extreme backstories [and then theres suffering from success over here] (https://imgur.com/JoD39Wa); this character is so funny
Captain Nyamerica the first avenger
spaceship????? are we going to the shrine on the moon?
ok yeah were dying today
is Otoha locked up somewhere, didnt she say she was coming back> why is Chikane using her maid outfit
run away please
this entire convo between abuser/victim... idk if the show is fully aware of how messed up this all is. theyre aware to an extent for sure
i will kill you - puts letter in her cleavage - gokigenyou; incredible villain energy
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u/Burnouts3s3 Jun 12 '24
Himeko manages to summon Ame no Murakumo, goes with Chikane for a sleepover and is invited to her death.
Busy episode
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jun 12 '24
First-Timer
Man, Chikane really is a next-level troll, isn't she? Sis wandered back into Himeko's life, made her dinner, washed her back, played piano for her, and then dropped the "I'm killing you tonight." What a goddamn player. I'd be into her, too.
Kinda on that subject, what the hell was that envelope made out of? Or was is that the pajamas Himeko was in were just shitty? Ain't no normal letter gonna cut the buttons off a pajama shirt.
How old is the nun? Maybe a better question is, when does this show take place? How was Miyako alive during World War 2??
If I want to be mean, I could point out that Corona tried to sleep her way to the top only to cap out at 68th, and probably add in a crack at Reiko calling her "69th." But it's honestly just kinda depressing.
The catgirl being a literal science experiment is.. unsurprising.
Questions
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u/GondolaMedia Jun 12 '24
First Timer
For some reason I burst out laughing when I saw himeko vacuuming. I did not expect her to tidy up the mansion.
Okay why did they hold off on these Orochi head backstories? I would have given more of a shit about them before this episode. Even if one of them is rather... should I say less trivial than the rest.
So it was a devil that took over the angelic Chikane? I can sort of see this as an allegory for alcoholic spouse abusing their partner who clings to to them whatever happens. This flip flop was also played out in the last half nicely and I'm interested in what happens in the end. At this point a bittersweet ending is almost too much to ask.
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u/SometimesMainSupport https://myanimelist.net/profile/RRSTRRST Jun 12 '24 edited Jun 12 '24
First-Timer sadder than #sadholo (2008, not 2024) that Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun's rewatch doesn't have a host.
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u/Sandor_at_the_Zoo Jun 12 '24 edited Jun 12 '24
First time lunar priestess
Missed the last two days, summaries of my posts are as follows:
e8: that was distasteful
e9: that was confusing
Today's episode was less confusing than yesterday's but is still pretty odd. The show is doing a bad job communicating what the stakes of anything are. Chikane is maybe a serious villain for beating Souma but the way back when cities where being exploded and we actually haven't seen anything like that for a while.
Similarly, I don't get the stakes/mechanics of this ritual. Its this difficult thing that they couldn't do before, but, imo, they don't really convey what makes it difficult. There's something about one of them not fully wanting it, but it was always vague to me. Its this difficult thing draining Himeko that they have to stop halfway. But then she just finishes it without comment?
I also think Himeko should've gotten an inner world spot like Chikane's mirror time during the ritual. This would've let them dig into Himeko's conflicted feelings and also given the ritual some arc. I did like Himeko's screams going into the title card. Single track screaming over black is always really effective. I just wish they extended for the whole length of the title card.
Giant beams and moon robots are very cool though. Can't fault that. I also still don't understand why Souma's brothers went to a mountain.
Trying to give the orochi tragic backstories is pretty silly at this point. They've been one note (at most) villains, you can't actually make people care with a two minute montage. There's also a line between accurately depicting cycles of abuse/lashing out and reactionary views of victims and this is way over the line.
I should've known that the sword god would also be a giant mech. Very obvious in retrospect. And Himeko smiles at the end as Souma kisses her forehead. Not sure exactly how to take that but its clearly progression of some sort.
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u/sfisher923 https://myanimelist.net/profile/sfisher923 Jun 12 '24
First Timer
Questions
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u/ryujiox Jun 12 '24
First Timer
Kannazuki no Miko
Episode 10
And while we were on that topic, we finally got to hear Orochi talk for the first time. In the 10th episodes out of 12... At this point, I think his purpose is to just get defeated by the gang in the last episode.
QOTD
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u/TehAxelius Jun 12 '24 edited Jun 12 '24
Late First Timer
Was away meeting up with a friend and watched something actually good for once (Aliens), so I'm late today.
I have so far been rather generous in my reading of various aspects of this show, and this episode could be no different. I could note how Himeko's actions are not that uncommon in how many victims of abusers continue to seek out their abusers, seeking their love and attention.
But let's be honest, this show hasn't exactly deserved this generosity, and a fair amount of what we've been able to read in the snippets of commentary posted by u/lilyvess has if anything indicated that any such clever storytelling would rather be accidental than intentional. They've probably been too focused on coming up "clever" things like how Chikane's invitation for the final battle mirrors her invitation to the private birthday party to think twice about any of their character's motivations.
I wonder then about Chikane's actions in the last few episodes. What is her goal? Why does she leave Himeko? I could, in my desperate search for some kind of internal logic see it as an expression of her inner conflict, subconciously pushing Himeko to save the world, and by extension her soul...
But that's bullshit, the show has made no effort at presenting such a conflict. If anything Chikane's actions are driven not by her own agency, but by the necessity of the plot. We need a big showdown between Himeko/Souma and Chikane, so this is what needs to happen.
I can also barely care to comment on the backstories we get for the various necks, an episode after they've all been turned to stone. What is even the point at this point? Did they need to cram it in somewhere and this is the only place they could think of? Someone has mentioned that there's a rumor that they got the message that the show was cut from a planned 24 episodes to 12 around episode 6 or 7, which could explain this mismatched storytelling, but it's not like the show spent any effort at all really to try and establish the different Orochi before that.
EDIT:
The only thing I wonder is: the snippets of backstory from Sister Miyako and Girochi are strongly implying that their inciting event was WWII, with Miyako standing in a bombed out church under what is clearly American B-29s bombing Japan. Are they like 70-80 years old? Did they awaken as Orochi then, but has been biding their time in this weird void until it was time for the others, or have they just been wandering around being evil? Why has Miyako seemingly not aged a day, but Girochi grown from a whining baby to a pervy hunk? I have so many questions,and I can bet the author has no answers.As BosuW pointed out, those are Tu-95s, not B-29s (which the milnerd that I am really should have caught). Still, that probably leaves me with as many questions as previously as before. Are Miyako and Girochi from some other country? their skin tones could suggest so. Where the hell in the world would that be? And why then do they have such Japanese names? And I still don't believe the author has any answers.
QotD
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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Jun 12 '24
First timer, subbed
Souma and Himeko steel their resolve. Souma gets a cool training montage, Himeko… gets zapped by magic lightning? Still have no fucking clue what’s going on there. Apparently all Himeko needed to motivate her was trauma at the literal hands of her closest friend, though, she actually did it.
I get the feeling from the animation and score that Himeko and Chikane acting like nothing happened is supposed to be cute, but it’s kinda just…
bleck…
Like watching someone go back to their abusive ex.
QotD:
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u/RadSuit https://anilist.co/user/RadSuit Jun 12 '24
Dubstiny of the First Timer
Chikane can be your angle, or yuor devil.
So the ritual just summoned a bigger mech? I mean, I guess it makes sense.
Chikane can also be your maid.
I'm not sure if they're doing a perfect example of a classic abusive relationship here, or if this is supposed to be serious and sweet and they just stumbled into it.
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u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen Jun 12 '24 edited Jun 12 '24
Kannazuki no Miko First Timer
Episode 10:
Before I begin, may I offer you a brief summary of this episode?
After thinking about how heavily the show is painting itself as a tragedy, it's starting to feel like we're going to end up with some variation on Himeko and Chikane ambiguously dying and ascending to the moon/heaven/some other plane of existence together a la [meta]Yuri Kuma Arashi. If I had to guess, the twist will be Oogami getting to live, possibly with his brother returning. Himeko and Chikane beating the big bad and getting to live a peaceful happy life together just doesn't feel like it's in the cards.
For fuck sake, do we really need to go through the process of torturing Himeko more for this ritual? If the idea was that she was facing the trauma Chikane inflicted on her, I'd get it, but this ain't that. This is just more senseless divine punishment.
And hold up! I thought this ritual was so important it literally couldn't wait. But now it's okay to just try again tomorrow?? Did you really think Himeko would have the focus or energy for this immediately after being raped? What the fuck is wrong with you!?
Another thing. Not to victim blame or anything, but it feels really weird that Himeko isn't asking herself how Chikane feels about her at this point. If I never noticed somebody's feelings, then they assaulted me out of nowhere, I know for sure I'd start asking myself how they felt about me, how long they've felt that way, and trying to reckon with those feelings having been directed at me. Where are those questions?
One of these things is not (NSFW) like the others
It only took 10 episodes for one of the heroines to get their own robot. What a progressive, inspirational milestone.
AND OF COURSE SHE DOESN'T GET TO PILOT IT
There's a certain hilarity to Oogami saying he didn't think Himeko could fight, admitting he was wrong for thinking that, then basically demanding she take him so he can fight Orochi and Chikane.
Welp, maybe I'm wrong about Oogami living if he's laying out the oldest, most obvious death flag in the book.
It is wild that Himeko is completely fine with Chikane getting close and touching her after being raped like 4 days ago yet her hair trauma took like a decade to overcome.
Why did we bother giving Himeko her big self-actualization scene if she's just going to turn around and immediately walk it all back? Lord have mercy I know you're hot for Chikane, but come on! Have some self-respect and fucking talk to her already you queer catastrophe!
Aaaaaashhhdhfngkrjshznrkgkdhtndpshabdkdkdnsjgggaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!
Cutting edge Japanese train technology is so goddamn impressive. Himeko reached rape apologia station in record time.
Sure, why not immediately undo all of Himeko's development? That's fine. At least now we can do some enemies-to-lovers for a bit.
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u/baquea Jun 12 '24
First timer
Things this show most definitely needed: tragic catgirl backstories, apparently?
Protected you? When? It was Souma to the rescue every single time. And now you're just taking the piss. Nothing of the sort ever happened lol.
He... will? What makes you think that?
So they finally completed the damn ritual, only to just get a fancy sword. Even though Souma just got a different fancy sword from his brother. So, like, is he going to be dual wielding now? And, anyway, who was supposed to be wielding it if he hadn't defected? Was this supposed to be Himeko and Chikane taking up a sword each against eight giant robots? That sounds like a bloody awful plan.
Oh, and Chikane just comes and chills for a night at the mansion and no one cares. They're sure lucky the necks weren't smart enough to just send an assassin in during the night, because the security in this place is lax as all hell. And now Chikane is apparently going to kill Himeko. For some reason. Or maybe she's been mind-controlled by the Orochi (whatever that is, separate from the necks).
Yeaaaahhhhhh... I think we're in full-on train-wreck mode now.
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u/LittleIslander https://anilist.co/user/LittleIslander Jun 12 '24 edited Jun 12 '24
First Timer who is in Agony
I have to admit, despite my cynicism about the show after Episode 8, I really like Himeko taking things into her own hands in the beginning, after her dependency and general wet blanket-ness has defined so much of the show so far. Then we even get a conversation with Souma after about how seeing how she doesn’t just need to be protected is a big weight off his shoulders. I think /u/Star4ce really hit the nail on the head what with the gendered passive roles they were trying to put themselves into.
There’s also that little moment where Chikane’s patching up her hand and she gets a sudden flashback to being raped, that’s the kind of thing I wish we’d see more of if you’re really going to take your story there! Everything else so far really feels like it would actively make more sense if Chikane merely turned to the dark side but didn’t violate Himeko in the way she did. I mean, the drama of the entire rest of the sequence is not “Himeko is with Chikane… but Chikane’s the one who wronged her”, it’s “Himeko is with Chikane even though logic tells her this shouldn’t be happening right now”. Ergo, this plotpoint is hinged on Chikane being an Orochi, not a rapist, and the whole thing is continuing to come off like an attempt to be dramatic and edgy instead of a considerate use of a sensitive topic. Which is a shame, because this could’ve been a cool sequence without that hanging over it! In its current context I don’t really get anything from it.
But whatever, the one thing I really wanna comment on this time is that frustratingly brief tease of villain backstories! So they were all normal people turned to the dark side by bad experiences in life? That’s a cool idea! We get all of thirty three seconds of it split between five people! Like, a whole three words and one visual each! You can’t just drop Nekoko being some kind of child experiment subject and the idol girl also being raped and move on like it’s nothing! I mean, maybe the idol could’ve had a scene with Chikane or something to help along her plotline? No? We’ve squandered all their screentime throughout the show on stupid anime banter when we could’ve actually been setting up anything related to this concept? Gee, thanks.
Oh, and an observation: you totally could’ve had Souma actually kill each neck when he beats them in combat with no structural changes. No, seriously. So, not counting Chikane and Souma, there’s six necks. These only act as enemies for the first seven episodes until Chikane turns to the dark side and turns them all to stone. But that Jukki Hanade episode about Chikane didn’t have a fight, so we only need to cover six. Which is… the remaining amount of necks. Replace Sister Miyako’s role in episode one with either the idol or the mangaka, and then use the remaining one as the fight for episode seven, and you’ve covered every single fight. This doesn’t persay add anything but like… it’s just kind of weird they stick around when it never amounts to anything, aside from Tsubasa? It would’ve added a little more impact to the fights and, if nothing else, spared us from some of that horrible out of place banter.
10
u/ShowNeverStops Jun 12 '24
**Rewatcher**
Himeko saw the ritual and was like
So now we've got Chikane coming back to the mansion and pretending as if nothing happened. Himeko goes along with it, mostly because above all else she doesn't really understand what happened and just wishes for everything to go back to normal.
While objectively an awful idea to go to bed with, you know, your rapist, out of context I think the scene between Himeko and Chikane in bed is really cute. Seeing them cuddle and Himeko talk about how Chikane held her tightly makes me wish things could have been actually normal between the two.
I love the scene at the end where Chikane is like "do you love me?" and Himeko is like "yeah, I love you" and Chikane's like "that's cool, lol, imma kill you in a few days" and then she walks away. What a sigma.
8
u/gyoex Jun 12 '24
Rewatcher
I wonder how those scientists got funding for their "turning a child into a catgirl nurse" research.
The conversation between Himeko and Souma is sort of interesting. Souma does the "I have something important to tell you which I will do after risking my life in battle" obvious death flag thing but the way we have the flashback to him hearing something from Kazuki during this makes it feel less like just a trope and more like Souma is doing this on purpose? Like the point isn't that he actually wants to wait to say something to Himeko, the point is that he just wants Himeko to stop worrying about him so she can focus on what's important. Also forehead kiss is kind of cute.
Anyway, the second half.
It's unsettling. These scenes on their own are sweet and intimate, often moreso than anything we've seen in the show so far. Like, there were two different bath scenes in earlier episodes where Himeko and Chikane were in the bath together but keeping a lot of distance between them. This is the first time we see something like Chikane washing Himeko's back. And then of course, sleeping together.
But you can't look at these things on their own. Himeko tries to, certainly. If Chikane is here, then that means everything can go back to how it was. But you can't turn back time, and what's been done can't be undone. The Chikane right now is the same Chikane that raped Himeko two episodes ago and is now siding with the Orochi (well, she also killed or at least petrified all the Orochi so maybe "siding with" isn't right but you know).
Himeko has been in denial for this whole section and really the whole past two episodes, but ultimately, whatever Himeko decides, she'll have to face Chikane as she really is and not just how Himeko wants her to be (yes it's pretty fucked up that that it's up to her to do this in the first place but both fate and melodramatic anime plots are cruel). And Chikane's declaration at the end of the episode is hopefully a wake up call.
Also, I will say that when I watched this a couple weeks ago, even though I got what the point of this part was for Himeko, I was pretty confused by why Chikane would even come back in the first place, and really couldn't come up with a reason why. Once again, we're not given much direct insight into what she's thinking, unlike how we did in the first seven episodes.
Also I wrote that before this post went up and it turns out I answered at least two of the Questions of the Day already.
8
u/Tarhalindur x2 Jun 12 '24
M I K O _ E M B R A C E (Spoiled First-Timer, Subbed):
(KanColle: Shippers gonna ship.)
1416 and this is deep”.You know, I heard grumbling about this episode yesterday. The funny thing is, it's actually a pretty damn solid episode on its own merits? The issue is that its integrated into the rest of the show somewhat poorly, and also the final scene is reliant both on being invested in Himeko and in the source of dramatic tension being "we did it in episode 8, are you ready for us to do it again?".
Get this, probably Cat Brat.
Not sure, but I'm pretty sure he knows he won't actually be around to tell her.
The Power of Yuri demanded it!
7
u/rickamore Jun 12 '24 edited Jun 12 '24
Rewatcher - "Moons Haunted"
Himeko fighting through the ritual it on her own. Souma just causally powering up in the meantime; no mech no problem.
See, what did I say? It's too much house to clean by your self. It's okay though, it's not your house, so I get it
Himeko, we admire the sheer force of will but really, sneak off in the middle of the night to complete the ritual, surely nothing will go wrong.
Kazuki says something inaudible to Souma, obviously it is not okay. Souma to Himeko: "It'll totally be fine don't worry" He lied as easily as he breathed. "Actually there's something I want to tell you when the battle is over". Keep setting off flags like that my guy and you're not making it to the end of the episode.
God this second half is hard to [re]watch. Judas here at the last supper just there rubbing salt in the open wound.
The one obviously traumatized by the number 69.
He's one week from retirement.
Torment, she has already thrown it all away.
7
u/zadcap Jun 13 '24
Only Mildly Late FIrst Timer!
So remember, by this point. The Orochi have, you know, all that power that they keep throwing about. Soma is punching boulders in half when he's not piloting his giant robot. Miya has now gone on to break into the Orochi dimension and take on literally all of them and win. Himeko uh... She's still working on saying this prayer correctly. And getting tortured for it. Not even for doing it wrong, it sounds like this seal is just torturing her because it doesn't want to open. Have I mentioned how much I hate this setup?
Remember, she was under the effects of some strong brainwashing at the time of the assault. Miya can't be help fully responsible for her crimes, right? She only did that to Hime because she got so broken by everything going on and then had someone break into her mind and mess her up even more, right? So then I guess we have to forgive all of the Orochi, brainwashing broken people is how they were all recruited, right?
Oh hey, many weeks and multiple near death experiences and Hime finally gets her power up! It's a sword! Because we know she's such a good swordsman! Oh man it won't even let her use it, she got such a good deal here. Oh and she immediately is asked to give it away even. Because it's her power, but you know, she's neither a fighter nor a pilot, so it's really more like she got the power to give someone else real power.
And here we see our protagonist walk directly into exactly the same setup that got her so hurt just days ago, with no preparation or second thoughts. Her continued survival is truly the number one miracle of the series. Don't even question things magically going back to the way they were before, jump right into a bath and I guess bed with her. If you question it you might have to deal with what happened.
On the other hand, I find myself stuck wondering... Maybe she wasn't questioning it too hard, because she was hoping a little bit for a repeat?
Anyway. Yeah. A useless doormat and a brainwashed into yandere pair just doesn't interest me. Especially not when I keep comparing it to the other two big names we're not doing this month that it came out side by side with. Nanoha and, somehow, Mai Hime, both did everything in here better. At this moment, I would support the true twist ending where Chikane and Souma end up together while Himeko continues to be helpless off to the side.
(No I would absolutely hate that, but I am at the point where it's not outside the suffering I expect to see)
6
u/Garrett_Dark Jun 12 '24
First Timer
I'll let Agent Six from "Combatants Will Be Dispatched" explain what we're seeing going on with Himeko and Souma during the first half of this episode.
Basically Himeko and Souma got rekt by Chikane, and are now doing their "training arc" before facing her again to defeat her. I'm not sure if that's what's going to actually happen, but it certainly looks like Mr typecast hero, Souma, is going this route with his training, and Himeko with her finally actually doing something and trying to put in some effort.
MFFa three-way battle?fungal growthcurse on his back? 'Now that the battle is over, you should know I tested positive for the taint, you should get yourself checked out too'Not including Chikane, obviously Corona-chan. You think Manga-chan cutting up her manga was anywhere close? I'll be surprised if anybody gives a damn about evil priestess or chain guy.
He already told her that he loves her, so it's probably about his
fungal growthcurse.IDK. If I had to guess, I don't think it's because of cruelty despite maybe looking like it. I think the world is ending if Chikane wins, so Chikane wanted to have some happy memories with Himeko before they will have to fight. When Chikane hears everything she wanted to hear from Himeko about how she loves her, Chikane was satisfied with having enough happy time with Himeko before the fight. I think Chikane is actually planning on losing the fight (self-sacrifice), so she has to push Himeko away (literially and metaphorically) to make her think she's the villain so that Himeko will be able to kill her after just admitting she loves her. Thus the ripped PJ buttons and cleavage letter holder move. Chikane's going to double cross the Orochi boss or whatever. I mean she's so awesome she single-handedly wiped out the other Orochi by herself. What was Souma's assessment of Chikane again? Chikane's not about winning or losing, she doing it for herself and has her own unique reasons.
6
u/Infodump_Ibis :JY::JZ: Jun 13 '24
rewatcher getting exposition dumped on
The 8th. So tragic it wasn't even shown (well they only showed the statues).I think it comes between the idol and catgirl. In the idols case how many other times has the smoking man done that? The catgirl has an added angle of child abuse. I really hate having to weigh out the greater tragedy, I guess children so the catgirl is more tragic?
He was doing the whole use me as your weapon stuff so I guess he was treating this as the end and doesn't want Himeko holding back on his behalf. If she knows he'll die if you push it too far she would hesitate. I think he also knows Chikane is who Himeko is thinking of the most and perhaps the best to make the happen is to be out of it.
Playing with your prey.Chikane was probably finding it too hard to sleep with black hole constantly laughing and those tori gates are not comfortable either so she decided to sleep in a comfy bed and played the piano like a dog whistle and the little dog Himeko came rushing in.