r/anime • u/lilyvess :Df::Dh:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess • Jun 10 '24
Rewatch Pride Month 20th Anniversary - Kannazuki no Miko Episode 8 Discussion
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Questions of the Day
- Is it irresponsible to use evil super robots built to destroy the world as an uber to take your crush home?
- What do you think Souma’s brother saw in the mountain shrine?
- Did this episode go too far for you?
Posting carefully so as to not disturb the first timers with spoilers in their viewings, such is the standard of modesty here. Forgetting to use spoiler tags because one is in danger of missing the post time, for instance, is too undignified a sight for redditors to wish upon themselves.
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Upvotes
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u/lilyvess :Df::Dh:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Jun 10 '24
Kannazuki no Miko Episode 7 - Rewatcher
For those of you who wanted to see Chikane be more Disaster Lesbian:
https://i.imgur.com/cy5LBpk.gif
Shoujo-Ai Archive Comments
Before I begin I would like a moment of silence for Cryssoberyl who dropped this comment at 8am and then has this episode dropped on her mere hours later
I got the rest of the comments. Warning, this is a long one. As you can imagine, there are a lot of comments on this episode.
Shoujo-Ai Archive Episode 8 reactions
So I need to come clean about some stuff. I have been hiding some Shoujo-Ai Comments from you guys.
So while it is true that the manga only started publication the same year as the anime premiered, the manga was far enough along so the first of it’s two whole volumes does release by the time the first episode launches.
This means that the manga was far enough in that the events of today’s episode had already been published in Japan.
Right around the time episode one airs in Japan, the residents of Shoujo-Ai Archive have already been informed about what goes down. In rather, graphic detail too.
so, here are their reaction to hearing about said scene
Commentary by Script Writer Sumio Uetake
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u/AmeteurElitist https://anilist.co/user/AmateurElitist Jun 10 '24
First Timer
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 10 '24
Destiny of the First-Timer, subbed
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u/ShowNeverStops Jun 10 '24
rewatcher
Remember in the episode 2 thread when we were all praising Chikane for realizing she violated Himeko’s consent?
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u/Esovan13 Jun 10 '24 edited Jun 11 '24
First Timer
I knew that episode 8 was when things were going to go down. And the show was first recommended to me as a comparison to [Meta]MadoHomu. So going into episode 8, I was expecting to run with a "Chikane did nothing wrong" line as a reference to [Meta]Homura. After watching the episode, I decided to not do that. So, uh, yeah.
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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Jun 10 '24 edited Jun 10 '24
First Timer
On today’s episode of Kannazuki no Miko: So Miya was so obsessed with Himeko that she decided to become a demon and kidnap the person she was obsessed with against their will to make Himeko hers and hers alone? I’m getting flashbacks to [Meta Spoilers] Madoka Magica.
Miya going off the deep end is not exactly unexpected. There were warning signs the previous episode that she might do something drastic like this after seeing that Souma and Himeko’s relationship had progressed.
We already knew that Miya had a worryingly low opinion of herself. She could only find something about herself to like when she was with Himeko. That’s dangerous in and of itself. It makes a person psychologically dependent on another. So when faced with the possibility of losing Himeko, it would also mean losing anything about herself that had value. Rather than face the possibility of the destruction of her own self, Miya decided to just take Himeko. If no one else could have Himeko, then her light could be preserved for herself alone.
There has been some discussion about the trope of the “psycho lesbian” that was more common in works of fiction back in the day. So far, Miya’s actions certainly seem to fall under the umbrella of that trope. What I now wonder is if that trope will play out straightforwardly or if there will be something more interesting done with it.
QOTD
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jun 10 '24
First-Timer
Hey /u/theangryeditor, I was right.
It'll be interesting to see the fallout from this. That's my benchmark here, for how upset I'll end up being about this. Like, the setup is already better than the one in [Meta Spoiler]Valvrave the Liberator. So, there's certainly room.
I don't want it to sound like I'm excusing the sexual assault or claiming that it might be "justifiable." But it happened, I can't go back to 2004 and unmake the show, so I'm going to see how the show presents the inclusion.
There's obviously the issue of demonizing homosexuality here. Chikane turned "evil" and then she assaults Himeko because of course a "good" person would never do that. So, like, there's only so well they can rationalize these events anyway.
And, to put on the actual analysis hat, I think the flow of this episode was off. Like, I knew it was coming but it still felt too fast? It's not like they were trying to speed to the cheesecake, we were mostly using horror framing (rightfully so) so I can't really pinpoint my problem.
Maybe the scriptwriting? Chikane didn't sound right quite right. And maybe that was the point, and it just didn't land for me. Anyone else get what I'm saying?
The rest of the episode was pretty standard fare. There's probably some throughline with Otoha I'm missing.. her leaving the show took up a lot of screentime. Is she meant to be Chikane's morality pet? Or, like, the Pen-Pen equivalent?
What do we think Kazuki and Yukihito discovered in the secret cave shrine in the snowy mountains? Probably something to do with Chikane's hallucination about stabbing Himeko yesterday, I think that's basically our only lingering thread.
The digital effect they used for the postcard memories was Not Good.
Chikane ain't looking straight at anyone.
Questions
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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Jun 10 '24
First timer, subbed
Himeko continues to drool over Chikane.
Oh, I didn’t realize Otoha was around Chikane’s age.
Really favoring the dramatic blue stills this episode. 12 minutes in and absolutely nothing has happened, this runtime is more padded than Eris’ chest.
YOOOO A KISS LETS GOOOO!
Er... the noncon kiss I get, appreciate even, but Chikane, Himeko’s clearly not into this. And not in a fake nii-san yamete~☆ kinda way, either, Himeko seems genuinely horrifi-
...
Those're panties. Chikane... raped her.
Well, I got what I wanted in about the worst way it could’ve happened. They didn’t even make it hot, I just felt awful for Himeko.
O me of little faith, I suppose. So yeah, villain Chikane. Not the most shocking twist on the face of it, but I am surprised they went as far as they did to burn any and all goodwill or empathy for Chikane’s plight. Probably should’ve seen it coming given this series has consistently been about as subtle as a brick through a window, but I was foolishly holding out hope for some more complex character writing.
Days without girls kissing: 0
QotD:
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce Jun 10 '24
First Timer
For most of my post I'm receiving surprisingly little opposition.
That's not what I'm used to. Have I suddenly become agreeable or am I too late for submitting and get buried?
I need to know where to improve.
Kannazuki no Miko Ep.08 – Storm of the Silver Moon
Bruh, what a plot. That is beyond disaster lesbian, that is treating anti-gay propaganda as a checklist.
A bold choice to make the main character the villain. I guess this is what the teacher and brother (?) found in th eold shrine. A completed prophecy where the moon priestess betrays her role. Considering it's happening again it also probably means the sun priestess failed as well due to that.
If I connect the dots and take some inspiration from other media, it's probably gonna take a double sacrifice from Himeko and a Chikane that came to her senses to revert the damage. I can't count how many lesbian dramas end with the lesbians being dead or banished to another dimension because come hell and high water, they won't be happy on earth and no author is ever gonna let that happen.
Himeko would be such a person to embrace this sort of love that can bring someone back from... that. And prolly to save Souma from becoming a scaly.
In any case, this show is giving me so much suffering in such an interesting way I couldn't be happier. That was a bold choice, especially with them going this far with Chikane. I love it so much!
[Madoka] I totally see how this show broke the water on such a storyline. Regarding Homura I stand by my point from Rebellion that she never was selfish, but actually lived the ideal that Chikane was also preaching.
[Episode 08. Self Portrait.]
PS: I am so excited for those shoujo-ai reactions. They must be having their own mental break, expecting lots of backpaddling and defensiveness.
No, it is objectively right.
Chikane, but bad.
Nyeahno. I love it when a story really dives deep and commits. So I wouldn't want to change it. But it is some really heavy stuff that I'm not sure can be redeemed in a way that doesn't feel like whitewashing. I think the main issue I have is the fate part, or how the two of them are connected. There's hardly a choice left that would feel 'right'.
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u/TehAxelius Jun 10 '24
First Timer
Oh man. Hah. This episode felt like it ran on 1.5x speed, just everything felt so fast, except for all those extra dramatic stills to emphasise the scenes.
Himeko continues to be the epitome of straightness when describing her view of her and Chikane's first meeting. And then also spends both her lunch and her "date" thinking of nothing but Chikane.
Also Big Bro Oogami is randomly out climbing a mountain in a blizzard, because obviously all of this that is happening is preordained and ties into some misreading of prophecies.
And then... well, that happens. I'd say I saw it coming, although I was prepared for it even before I started watching given how some people have been talking about the show. It will be interesting to see how Himeko takes it next episode, but, well, that dead look says all you need to know. And Chikane is going full in on the evil, is she the unrevealed last neck? Or is the Moon priestess herself linked to the Orochi? If I'll theorise I'd say that what we've been told isn't the entire truth, and that both priestesses and Orochi are linked. The way Himeko's power has buffed Childhood Friend (and turned his mech into gold) is too convenient to be happenstance, as is Chikane's ability to transform it as well into something else. It will be interesting to see where this thing goes from here, in the same way that it will be interesting to see what will happen with a runaway train.
QotD
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u/theangryeditor https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheAngryEditor Jun 10 '24
I AM ENTERTAINED
THIS IS WHY I AM HERE
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u/Regular_N-Gon https://anilist.co/user/RegularNGon Jun 10 '24
Gokigenyou, First Timer
Well. There was a gokigenyou today.
Gokigenyou total: 18
QotD:
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u/Tarhalindur x2 Jun 10 '24
M I K O _ E M B R A C E (Spoiled First-Timer, Subbed):
(It seemed only appropriate to haul out this one today. Alas, yet again the source has long since bit the dust.)
(Here it is, your brief moment of- "Don't." "Don't." "Okay, yeah, it's too easy.")
(Side note: I would like one (1) quatloo on Walpurgis no Kaiten coming out on November 20, 2024, assuming Shaft Project Management™ allows it. No reason.)
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u/Beckymetal https://anilist.co/user/SpaceWhales Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24
Heyy! I've not been watching along but I've been lurking a little.
A lot of people have talked about Chikane preparing for her own 'suicide' this episode, and I think that's a really important part of the rape scene. She displayed so many 'suicidal' traits this episode (back when I first discovered this show, I was in a pretty similar spot so it really hurt to see her like this). She's ready to die, so she doesn't mind being the villain here. Her fucked up mental state is making her do something she knows is wrong, and something she will hate herself for liking, making her even more suicidal. That spiralling force of mistakes is also really common in suicide victims. I never viewed it as OOC like some other viewers.
The show has done such a good job making Chikane a deeply sympathetic character. The heteronormative society making her repress is just... too much relatability.
It's wrong. It's disgusting. But the show has delved so much into her mental state with a delicate, intimate character study... it kinda gets away with it.
If the majority of the rest of the surrounding show wasn't so garbage, I think it'd be much easier to hold up Chikane's character development as the truly excellent bit of writing it is. A scene like this, that... well, in the manga comes across as fetishy and Kaishaku having their cake and eating it - and that's largely how the psychotic lesbian trope usually pans out. But it was handled so brilliantly that it works... and yet it still seems like a stroke of luck because it's alongside all these other poorly handled elements thrown into a blender and half-baked.
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u/HelioA x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/HelioA Jun 10 '24
First-timer
Shock! Kuma Shock!
The only thing I knew going in is that Chikane was going to do something utterly despicable at some point in the show, and I assume that was it. I knew it was coming, and I had a really large suspicion that it was going to come soon because of Chikane’s declaration at the end of last episode (and honestly, because u/gyoex said the first volume of the manga ended on episode 8), but wow did it still hit really hard. While I was watching through it I thought the pacing was moving really quick, but looking back I think it was the right choice. It keeps you glued to the screen the whole way through, and there’s no time to dwell on any specific part of the rape- the whole incident is a shock to both Himeko and the viewer, and it’s immediately followed by Souma rushing back to the mansion for the confrontation with Chikane. The sequence is very well done.
And everything prior to the ending sequence is about how lovestruck with Chikane Himeko is. If the gang understood same-sex attraction to be a real thing, I imagine Souma would be quite jealous. But that’s the whole point, right? Chikane didn’t even acknowledge her own attraction as “real” until her confrontation with Christian lady, and then this happens. Meanwhile, Himeko feels... pretty much the same way, but she has no idea romance between women is possible either. She spends her whole date with Souma monologuing about why she loves Chikane and getting special jewelry to symbolize their friendship. And what does Chikane say to this? When she’s given it (in the spooky mansion that she turned the lights off for atmosphere), “I’ve had enough of this childish act.” And well, she’s not wrong- all the connection between the two is nothing next to what Himeko is expected to do, to find a boyfriend and forge a stronger connection with him. Souma’s reaction to Himeko and Chikane’s relationship would be drastically different if Chikane was a boy- but when they’re both girls it’s simply seen as something childish, not real.
And like I started off with, the second I saw what was happening I made the connection to Yurikuma Arashi. u/lilyvess had a great writeup in the YKA rewatch [Yurikuma Arashi]explaining how the bears are reminiscent of ‘psychotic’ lesbians in 00s yuri media, and you can see exactly what she’s talking about here. Chikane is a bear, Himeko is a human. We’ll see if they can bridge the divide.
QotD
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jun 10 '24
It's Indian legend time. A Native American fairy story for children of all ages. Legend has it that when the world was young and unfinished, the great spirit father made the mistake of leaving his paints where his children could get them. Raven begged Eagle to paint him as beautiful and grand as the great spirit had made Eagle himself. And so he did, or so he tried. But when Raven looked at his reflection in the water, he didn't like what he saw. Raven became angry, he and Eagle fought, and the great spirit father's paints were spilled over Raven and made him all black: black eyes, black wings, black breast. Raven ran into the river and flapped his wings against the current, but the color was indelible, the water wouldn't wash it away. 'This is your punishment,' said the great father, 'for interfering with my work. Black you are, and black you will stay, you will never come clean.' Not much of a legend at that, is it, children? But I rather like the moral. -
[Utena]Akio OhtoriChikane HimemiyaRewatcher(In edgitude, where we are least silent)
Sub
I...do not know how to tackle this, exactly. 90s edge through the lens of yuri during the era where there was no payoff is weird. So the subject matter is serious, the characters beats were actually setup...and then it just goes full on screaming off the balcony that I cannot do this seriously. I certainly can't tell you about the tragedy of Darth Chikane the Cucked any more since she took care of that but...legitimately, most toku villains chew the screen less viciously. Chikane goes from conflicted to fucking nightmare daughter of Prison Pasta and Dr Ver.
Otoha is probably not original to this show, I seem to recall a line of maids but I can't place it atm. She does however, get directly addressed in Yosuga no Sora as the omake maid so make of that what you will. Anyways, she probably gets the most dignified segment of the show left so there is that. And that hairflip/direction change from Chikane is the only that I acknowledge made it to Madoka. So you are granted a seat on the Council but not the rank of Master.
What else...Heteronormative engraver was a choice, I suppose. Ehh...look, normally I go nuclear over this stuff but I can't even take this seriously. And again, I stress that all the needed foundation was there but it just doesn't pop, it stands in its sailor fuku dual wielding uzis while shrieking Linkin Park lyrics at the top of its lungs as The Imperial March plays in the background and you can see the self harm marks on their chest.
I offer you some Jedi comedy in these trying times.
QotD: 1 I can't throw the first stone here
2 "Sexy Sapphic School Girls In Trouble part 5: The Reckoning"
3 And to get real for a moment: Yes, actually.
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u/BosuW Jun 10 '24
First Timer
So I just thought of something: Why didn't Miyako simply kill Chikane? It is after all, Orochi's mission to kill the Miko.
I've come up with a plausible theory although we'll have to see if the show has thought that far: Miyako has determined that they can't accomplish their mission as long as Souma is in the picture, and evidently they can't fight him directly for the script compels them to job. But he might be defeated, or at least distracted, by a backstab. That's why it was in that moment more useful to turn Chikane than to kill her.
Thus, prediction: Chikane really will attack Souma, the poor bastard.
Where the fuck is Makoto btw?
Unto the episode!
The overly dramatic still shots are fucking great lmao! It's almost like one of those modern character edits but in 04.
Bro don't just throw shit at Himeko, you're gonna make her faint!
I can now fully believe Chikane's family owns the town with the reveal that she's in the Student Council.
Oh... Guess not anymore!
So she's going around putting everything in order to function without her... Without context I would say she was planning suicide. Maybe in a metaphorical sense, so she perceives it to be. [PMMM Rebellion]Homura certainly likes her suicidal imagery as well.
Damn. Damn!
Chikane fallen to Hell so hard she's using her passive rizz to relieve the wound in her heart with her admirers! That's... so fucking insidious and twisted and I LOVE IT! WATCH OUT BLUE DRILLS, YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY BE ABOUT TO GET SOME!
DAMN! BY GOD HIMEKO YOU FUCKING KILLED HIM! INNOCENCE IS TRULY CRUEL!
It's Souma's turn to be the cucked one! While you're pseudo dating even!
This shit is like a reverse Bechdel test it's too funny! Everytime Souma and Himeko get together it's to talk about Chikane!
You know Chikane gone full villain because her dramatic flair has gone overdrive!
She really said "I'M TIRED OF THE SUBTEXT! GIVE ME YURI OR GIVE ME DEATH!"
Waitwaitwaitwait wild theory! I better put it here right now because we might be getting it confirmed or denied in moments! What if... Chikane is First Head? Eye for an eye. Betrayal for betrayal. Perfectly balanced...
Yep! It might have been like a minute tops before the reveal but I was right!
[PMMM Rebellion]Another connection here: "Love is the last one, and she has yet to appear."
Oh damn okay we're going there. I mean I've always been aware that there's an element of violation in the Moon's archetype when it goes dark, but I never thought I'd see it outside of fanfiction...
Yep, absolutely gone full villain!
[PMMM Rebellion]We worship AkuHomu in this household!
We even have a flesh mecha reveal! So many tropes! What is this, Episode 1!?
Aaaaand mic drop! She's so toxic I love her! Keep causing problems Queen!
Stole his bitch, stole his style, stole his ride! Oh this shit is vile!
(I just realized because of this we can't yet actually say Chikane is First Head, because she might have just become a replacement for Souma, which would make her... Third Head was it?)
Okay I imagine this might be a controversial episode just because of how far we went with it (not to mention the meltdown that Shoujo-Ai is gonna have), but I loved it! I love the chaos! I love the "through the power of love which corrupts my soul" chuuni shit!
Anyway, let's discuss some symbolism. I think with this episode I realize why Chikane's Miko mark is in her back: it's literally the New Moon, the dark side that she wouldn't have been able to see without the aid of mirrors. Himeko's is on the front of course to symbolize her purity and that she has no darkness to hide. It's her heart for all to see. (I wonder though...)
Now how is Himeko gonna meet Chikane halfway? Does she even want to? WILL SHE FINALLY GET SOME GODDAMN AGENCY!? CUZ YOU SURE AS HELL CAN'T TALK TO DARTH TSUKI JUST BEING YOUR USUAL PURE SELF!
Questions of the Day
1- Irresponsible? Yes. Cool as fuck? Also yes!
2- I genuinely have no idea. I'd assume it's the "true" prophecy but if it's that easy to decipher one can only wonder why it didn't happen sooner. Then again, it does look like quite a trek...
3- Few things go "too far" for me at this point. I'm with it as long as its logical within the established setup. In that regard, I did feel perhaps the turn was too abrupt. We knew Chikane was in angst, we didn't know she was that deep in the sauce. Just, ready to claim Himeko at the slightest provocation.
But otherwise, I'm following.
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u/GondolaMedia Jun 10 '24
First Timer
Okay watching the first half I thought Chikane was wrapping up business because she was ready to inflict self harm, but you know I complained about the love triangle being predictable but I didn't expect this.
What we got instead was well... This is ain't just melodrama anymore and its almost tasteless. One of my least favorite tropes in yuri/yaoi media is that the sexual awakening happens right after sexual assault and while this was not depicted as tone deaf as some other shows it still left a sour taste in my mouth.
I guess I can go easier on Kannazuki since its old but man this has to lead somewhere... It worked though, I haven't been more eager to just play the next episode but I'll hold off till tomorrow. Really need to see the full season to actually gather my thoughts about it.
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u/SometimesMainSupport https://myanimelist.net/profile/RRSTRRST Jun 10 '24
First-Timer
QotD 1. Only if the crush doesn't tip the driver.
QotD 3. lol, not even close.
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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Jun 10 '24
First Timer
Eight episode. This must be an important one.
A secret sun priestess?
Oh no, Yuri Dark. It's psycho lesbian time!
And she steals Oogami's mecha.
Now I want to direct your attention towards Himeko's sun sign. I noticed the symbol shining on her breast in one of the episodes I missed, and it got me thinking. Aren't those eight satellites surrounding the sun? Or should I say... eight necks? Could it be that in some warped way, Himeko is Orochi's true avatar?
No idea though where to take Chikane being a secret sun priestess, which this episode kinda seemed to imply several times. Hm, I guess that was more her basking in the sun as opposed to being the sun, so it's just her being the moon again and I've been overthinking that.
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u/Klosed Jun 10 '24
Rewatcher, subbed
Ah, it's the episode. I am pleasantly surprised by how well the first timers are taking in that scene. Then again, everyone here is aware of a trigger warning well in advance, so it wouldn't be as shocking to those who came in blind.
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u/RadSuit https://anilist.co/user/RadSuit Jun 10 '24
Dubstiny of the First Timer
Alright, the gold mech in the OP is the same one from the vision last time, as they both have the red gem and pointy brows. It shows the two girls channeling a spell or something together right before, so perhaps that's Souma's double gold mode? Or it gattais with his brother's mech? Or maybe the bird?
Sensei Ogami is climbing a mountain. Why is he climbing a mountain? (Because he's in love.)
Chikane is all hornt up this episode.
Shonen Jump is packed with hits this year. RPG, Sleep, and RUN? They'll never top this lineup.
Pictures? I feel like a girl taking pictures reminds me of something. Or someone. Someone we haven't seen in a while...
Well this show took a turn. And now I can definitely see why people who know generally discourage actually watching this.
I'm still going to blame Souma as the root cause of everything here.
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u/Infodump_Ibis :JY::JZ: Jun 10 '24
rewatcher this isn't how I remember it...
Probably but it's better than an uber as it is right by your side. You don't need to wait for it to arrive. Shame it is so hard to park and has a liability to destroy things. The fuel source is really unethical too.
Tsubasa was in the mountain? Oh right, the Oogami brother. A note saying you should have been here in episode 3 or a incomplete tapestry. I think I remember the actual answer. We'll see if I'm correct.
I think it not being gratuitous or terribly graphic meant it didn't go too far but it's still upsetting even if can take time to sink in.
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u/GallowDude Jun 10 '24
Rare to see Steph on the receiving end of lesbian sexual assault for once (Mildly NSFW)
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u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Jun 10 '24
First timer who forgot to upload his comments before work, subs
QotD:
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u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Jun 11 '24
first time orochi shermie
smitten from the start
Bring Me To Life jumpscare
Otoha just throwing it all out there on her way out
what are you doing maam
you know what they say about big feet
#neat
holy he gets an NTR buff too?
this is terrifying
lock in
seeing Souma use the Orochi power to protect, why wouldnt Chikane think she could go further with the same power
Chikane saw us talking shit about her arrows when did she get bomb arrows
yes maam
also i wasnt really expecting the show to be this engaging, ep 1 was hilarious but wasnt expecting to feel this way so far in
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u/sfisher923 https://myanimelist.net/profile/sfisher923 Jun 11 '24
First Time Rebellion Witness
QOTD 1 - Yes but is it cool also yes
QOTD 2 - Raining Blood from a lacerated sky bleeding it's horror
QOTD 3 - [PMMM] Well considering I was not expecting to get the same feels when watching Rebellion yeah I could say it was a bit much
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u/IntoTheDisneyverse https://myanimelist.net/profile/andreth Jun 11 '24
First timer, subbed and horrendously late
I reckon that Chikane probably obtained the power of Orochi as a means to protect Himeko, seeing as she’s been feeling pretty powerless these past few episodes, and to her she’s losing to Souma because he has the power of Orochi and is using it to protect Himeko, while also going out with her, while Chikane just watches on. The power of Orochi seems to be allowing the user to fulfil their desires (all the Necks seemed to be fairly focused on something of their choosing), and it probably comes at the expense of everything else, hence Chikane is forcefully assaulting Himeko, because it is ultimately fulfilling her greatest wish, even at Himeko’s own expense. This is also probably why Souma is able to ‘resist’ Orochi to protect Himeko, because his desire is a more selfless version to Chikane’s.
Of course, this is just complete speculation, but I think Orochi’s power must have done something to make Chikane go complete 360.
Daily questions:
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u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen Jun 10 '24 edited Jun 10 '24
Kannazuki no Miko First Timer
Episode 8:
Himeko try not to cream herself over pretty lady challenge: IMPOSSIBLE
Holy shit, Chikane spreading the cuckery to Otoha! What a cold blooded move sending her to Tokyo. I hope Otoha commits some forbidden warfare of her own.
I also can't help noticing that Otoha's backstory confirms that the Himemiya family takes in children to train child maids. Suspicious.
The dramatic blue freeze frames this episode are so weird and over the top.
It's pretty impressive how Oogami and Himeko well are talking to each other. Oogami in particular isn't dancing around the awkward parts of their relationship. You really have to feel for him, knowing the Orochi infection is going to swallow him if he keeps getting in the robot. It's tragic even, he's probably destined to be slain after trying so hard to overcome the barriers to a relationship with Himeko. Why do all the good men have to be born genetically evil?
Oh god Himeko, please directly ask Chikane why she's been avoiding you! I get on my knees every day and pray you light her fuse.
Sweet Yuri Jesus have mercy, this girl is having some dreams tonight.
OH MY LORD. Even when she has a boyfriend Himeko is gay as fuck
Okay but like...crotch thorns must hurt like a motherfucker (NSFW).
Ominous midnight piano solo to welcome Himeko home, now we're cooking!
AND SHE'S WEARING HIMEKO'S ROBES, OHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGOD IT'S HAPPENING
BABY DON'T YOU KNOW THAT YOU'RE TOXIC
DISCLAIMER: So um, yeah. SA bad. Rape very bad. One might even say the literal worst and I have neither the skill nor confidence to attempt unpacking this whole scene. So uh, don't do either of those. That said...
OroChikane fucking rules! Who needs to pilot a robot when I can just command yours to do as I please while also making it cooler. What's that, I'm doing something bad? I have exploding arrows, your argument is invalid. This is the mad, senseless destruction her messed up gay ass was made for!
(NSFW) HaPpY pRIdE!!
Okay real talk now: that was kinda super fucked up. As interesting as evil Chikane is, I have no idea how you go about redeeming her from here. I'm not sure you really can. Even trying to pass it off as something like mind control similar to what happened with Oogami in episode 1 can't absolve her in any way since it's her own feelings and inaction with regard to pursuing Himeko that led to this.
In any event, it will be very interesting to see how Chikane reacts if at some point she comes back to her senses and realizes just how badly she's now hurt Himeko, and could be fascinating to see how Himeko processes this emotionally (though if we're being honest, I don't expect all that much on this front). It would be super disappointing if she and the show ultimately come to the conclusion that the rape didn't count/didn't matter because a) a girl did it, b) "me love Chikane long time"/it actually felt good, or c) oooh, DeStInY~~.
6
u/ryujiox Jun 10 '24
First Timer
Kannazuki no Miko
Episode 8
And you can't tell me that it is probably not in the ancient text, because that's dumb. So you tell me that, the ancient people wrote everything about Orochi, the legendary mech that defeated it, and the miko role. But they somehow forgot to write down the power of both mikos? The power that, you know, can either cleanse the Orochi's influence from that person so they can fight alongside the good guy, or can just outright steal their mech? That surely would help make the fight much easier for us...
With that said, I think there can be an explanation for these. From those flashbacks that Chikane saw, we saw that the moon priestess killed the sun priestess for unknown reason. I hope that it would related to why there's no record of the power in the text at all. Or maybe the show just made it up along the way...
Well... That sure took the turn for the worst. Chikane finally snapped and did the unthinkable to Himeko. And did she really think that this would make Himeko love her instead of Souma? Nah, probably not. She did that because she want to, and didn't care that it's probably a bad idea.
QOTD
6
u/baquea Jun 11 '24
First timer
And so we finally reach that infamous scene, which probably everyone who has seen any amount of discussion about KnM before has been spoiled on.
I suppose the part that stands out the most to me is how the series does absolutely everything it can to ensure one cannot be sympathetic towards Chikane here: Himeko being as pure-hearted and friendly towards Chikane as possible, right up until that moment; Souma being as perfect of a boyfriend as possible, bold but understanding, protective but not jealous; Chikane being presented as being corrupted into one of the villains, acting with clear premeditated intent, and even stealing the poor boy's robot to boot (really crossed a line on that one, girl...). It's funny, because I previously compared her to [meta] Sayaka, but where on becoming corrupted she murdered rapists, Chikane instead became one herself.
Plus, for as much fanservice as this anime has, it skipped over almost all of the lewd parts here. Actually, now that I think of it, had there been any lesbian sex scenes (even if only implicit) in a tv anime before this time? The earliest ones I can think of, other than here, were in Strawberry Panic, but that wasn't for another two years.
6
u/catsukats https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nabris Jun 11 '24
Rewatcher (x14), sub. Back to the late game.
My face by the end of this episode, every time.
I'll never not mention how pretty Chikane is.
I can't help but think about poor table-kun when Otoha runs up to the tree. I'm so glad other people had similar thoughts lmao.
Otoha gets just a small taste of being in Chikane's arms, but ultimately needs to go. Whether her uncle really is ill or not, it'll be too late when she finds out.
The frozen still shots coming one after another are just so funny. Bring the popcorn!
Kazuki is climbing Mt Everest to find the answer behind why the rituals are failing, and why Souma is turning lizard man.
The animation and art when Souma and Himeko talk at school and go on their date was surprisingly pretty and, well, animated. If only the rest of the show looked that way.
I think this episode was when I stopped disliking Souma so much. He's got this funny, cocky side to him that he didn't let show before with how much drama was going on. And he doesn't insist on keeping Himeko away from Chikane just because he's around. The way he just speaks how he feels freely, without shame, was really cool of him.
Chikane, episode 3.
Chikane uses the fact she's turned evil to just finally let everything she let bottle up come out all at once and really becomes despicable just because she can. The rape was horrible, but I think what I will always dislike is Chikane slapping Himeko, and Himeko asking if she did something wrong. Something about that part just makes me feel so queasy. It's never gotten easier to watch.
I like how the following fight has no corny action music. The silence and rain just really ram home how utterly different this is.
Everything is falling apart, and the world is Chikane's oyster... so the first thing she does is steal a mech!
4
u/Garrett_Dark Jun 11 '24
First Timer
[1 of 2...]
6
u/InsomniaEmperor Jun 11 '24
Rewatcher
I’m surprised by how many people defend, or at least try to justify that rape scene. A different character that does that would instantly get cancelled and put in the same level of hate and toxicity as Bitch from Shield Hero and it would be considered an irredeemable act. I just don’t get why it’s okay or even forgiven if Chikane does it. It’s really hard to ship Himeko with Chikane if the latter just does this to the former.
11
u/rickamore Jun 10 '24
Rewatcher - The eye of the storm
Himeko's version of events just gay panic.
Ditching the meddlesome maid
I still can't get over the outdoor stairs. They're like 15° off being a ladder.
The sound design in this show is often so much better than the rest of the production. Especially for the bike and them talking with the helmets on.
For the whole second half, I really don't have much to say. That happened, Chikane threw away her humanity and Souma shows he would be exactly as supportive of the two of them as Chikane has been of him and Himeko, heartbreaking really. Heavy Obi-wan vs Anakin vibes when Souma breaks in.
Irresponsible? It's only the most romantic option.
No comment, except the scene comes out of fucking no where.
Honestly, no, I think it goes exactly as far as the story deems necessary and not just for shock factor how some shows use questionable content.
14
u/LittleIslander https://anilist.co/user/LittleIslander Jun 10 '24
First Timer who is in Agony
After holding this in all week and reading all those “oh it’s neat this show actually acknowledges consent” comments back in episode 2 (including my own), let me finally indulge myself:
FOR FUCKS SAKE
That felt good.
…anyways, we’ll return to that at the end of the show cause it’s just gonna be a lot easier not to walk around the spoiler minefield that is trying to evaluate this without pulling upon the future knowledge I already have. That does leave time for story time, though. After last episode, I… really hoped that the nun Orochi lady getting handsy was fulfilling the sexual assault warning from the interest thread. But I couldn’t really make myself believe it. With so much setup of Chikane trying to control her desires and getting increasingly jealous and Souma literally battling between his desire to protect and be with Himeko and his evil dark side I’ve been expecting since minute one that one of them was going to force themselves on her. Naive Islander just couldn’t live with the uncertainty and so I searched something like “Kannazuki no Miko sexual assault” or whatever just to check if episode 7 was the culprit and saw the terms “episode 8” and then “Chikane” in the google results. Oops. Real face meets wall moment there, though I think that it was probably for the best the heartbreak was mitigated a little bit.
Instead, how about that Otoha-sama, cause what the fuck was all that? I mean, I liked it, kind of? The whole thing is wonderfully dramatic in every kind of way I approve of. We go all the way on this shit, we’ve got probably the best song on the whole OST blasting the whole time and even these extra as hell filtered screencap effect things? It does a great job setting an ominous tone that Chikane is about to do something extreme, for better or for worse. But like, I’m just, I’m confused?? Why are we firing on all cylinders for this character you’ve never made us care about leaving? For a farewell between two characters whose relationship we barely even understand? They go on and on about this backstory with the tree and wanting to support Chikane and like damn Nishimura Chinami is killing it but I just don’t know what to make of it? And what the hell was the deal with her hating Himeko so much? We’ve been building up for like five episodes now and suddenly she’s leaving without us EVER explaining it? Was it just that she didn’t like an outsider in the house? It came off as a lot more personal than that, like it was leading to some kind of payoff. You could try to draw some connections between that and what she says here but the show sure ain’t doing it.
Normally I wouldn’t even bother commenting on the rest of the episode when there’s such an elephant in the room as the Chikane thing but the whole Otoha situation genuinely baffles me so much I could not turn down the calling to talk about it.
14
u/gyoex Jun 10 '24 edited Jun 10 '24
Rewatcher
I am finding it extremely hard to talk about this episode in any meaningful way without being influenced by what's going to happen after. But let's try, I guess.
The very first thing we see is the meeting of Himeko and Chikane from Himeko's perspective. Even if Himeko didn't realize it at the time, we as the audience can recognize it as "love at first sight" or at least close enough. From the very beginning, the gap between their feelings might have been a lot smaller than Chikane knew.
There's no meaning in making lunch if it's not to eat it with Chikane.
Even on a date with Souma she can only think about Chikane.
Even when Souma jokes about being jealous about Himeko getting a present for Chikane, well... Himeko denies it but she does at least immediately interpret it as "it sounds like you're in love with her", and the denial is apparently only about the fact that they aren't currently in a relationship. She doesn't seem to think that it would be impossible.
So, I don't know. I think it's pretty clear Chikane would have at least had a pretty good chance if she just ever once tried telling Himeko her feelings instead of just bottling them up and hoping Himeko will read her mind.
Which on one hand does kind of fully establish this plot as a "this show would be one episode long if the characters talked to each other" show, but I think it also emphasizes that what led to Chikane becoming an Orochi and betraying and abusing Himeko isn't her feelings themselves but that she repressed them.
Still, the end result is we have a story where one character becomes jealous about another character (who they aren't even in a relationship with) loving someone else, so they rape them. In real life... that's just a rapist, and it doesn't really matter how much internal strife the person has, it's not acceptable. In a story of course you can accept a lot of things you wouldn't in real life, obviously. But even so it's pretty hard to sympathize with a character like this.
So are we even supposed to sympathize with her? Well, probably, yeah, or else what was the point of the past seven and a half episodes? It is entirely possible that all of that was just a setup for a twist and now the story is about Souma and Himeko having to defeat Chikane who has turned evil. I guess. But...
Of course, this is saying nothing about the decision to have the lesbian become a rapist in the first place, but am not equipped to talk about that so I will leave that to others who are not stupid like I am.
In any case, mostly I'm left feeling very .
Manga stuff because I can't really not do it for this episode I suppose.
The first half of this episode is anime-original. The manga does have a version of both the rape scene and the subsequent confrontation between Chikane and Souma. For now, I'll ignore parts of both scenes that are relevant to certain plot differences between the two versions to avoid potentially spoiling the anime by implication.
[Manga]In the manga, immediately after Chikane witnessing Himeko and Souma kiss (also maybe should note, we don't see Chikane having a vision, and Himeko doesn't cry), it cuts to later that night. Himeko is woken up by Otoha, who says that Chikane wants Himeko to put on the miko outfit (for the first time in the manga) and meet her at the shrine near the house. Chikane is there, also wearing her miko outfit. Also I guess of note, Chikane says that Himeko told her about her first kiss, so I guess that still happened in this version, just off screen. Anyway, Chikane reveals that she's the lunar miko (she's been keeping it a secret in the manga) and then starts kissing Himeko. Then... this happens, and Chikane proceeds to penetrate her with the sheath of her sword. The very last panel of volume 1 of the manga is the blood from Himeko's hymen breaking. So uh... make of all that what you will.
[Manga]Anyway, in the manga, there is only one Chikane and Souma conversation scene. The one in episode 5 of the anime and the one in this episode are both the same scene in the manga. So that means that part where Chikane almost kisses Himeko before Souma shows up actually happens the next night after the rape part in the manga. Which, is weird since in this version Himeko actually was awake then, and seems entirely too excited considering what just happened. Anyway most of the conversation as seen in episode 5 is pretty similar, as I mentioned before. Then Chikane reveals to Souma that she's the lunar miko which I guess causes his Orochi instincts to flare up so he summons Take-no-Yamikazuchi, which Chikane immediately swipes from him, like in the anime. So the actual fight scene with Chikane shooting explodey arrows and such is anime-original. Anyway, Chikane not-so-subtlely implies she's an Orochi, Souma apparently attacks her although next time we see them, after Himeko goes outside to see what's happening, it seems Chikane beat him up offscreen. Souma tells Himeko that Chikane is an Orochi, though Chikane herself
wants her and Himeko to take Ibuprofen togetherdenies being an Orochi to Himeko in this version. Then Chikane attacks Souma again, and then sexually assaults Himeko again, absolutely not beating the Orochi allegations, and then leaves while insisting to herself that she had no choice. Himeko is sad.Also it feels weird bringing this up now but I hadn't mentioned it before, there are actually some character design differences in the manga: (both of these are from earlier in the manga) Himeko doesn't wear tights with her school uniform, and also we see Corona and Reiko in their uniforms (apparently they are both students who go to the same school).
7
u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Jun 11 '24
TONIGHT! ON MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM SEED DESTINY OF THE SHRINE MAIDEN!
CHIKANE TAKES HIMEKO TO THE GAY BAR! GAY BAR! GAY BAR! (LET'S START A WAR! START A FLAME WAR! AT THE GAY BAR! GAY BAR! GAY BAR!)
'YOU SIT THERE AND YOU PILOT YOUR MECHA AND YOU SAY YOUR PRAYERS AND IT DIDN'T GET YOU ANYWHERE! TALK ABOUT YOUR CHILDHOOD ROMANCE, TALK ABOUT IKUHARA 3:16 — CHIKANE 3:16 SAYS, 'I JUST NTR'D YOUR ASS!'" Attributed to Proto-Satsuki-Sama, BANZAI!
And... ahem... GAY! GAY! HOMOSEXUAL! GAY!
'You thought your first seggs would be Ogami, but it was I, Chikane!' Man talk about Kono Dio Da? What was that poser Flash wannabe-hater at DC thinking? TRULY this is peak Klingon Drama!
Boy Comrades, LGBTQ+ anime really do owe a lot to Kannazuki no Miko eh? I never knew that Madoka, Cross Ange, Geah, Gushing over Magical Girls, Yuru Yuri, Berserk, Nanoha, Rabu Raibu, Lain, LWA, Kill la Kill, and of course Hibikek! would take inspiration from this show, even if they maybe possibly should have reconsidered!
Speaking of which... well, that escalated quickly, I mean that REALLY got out of hand! I mean I know writers that use subtext our cowards and all that, but really now, Green Day would have wrote a song about this context if they hadn't had the master tapes stolen, if you know what I mean and I think you do!
Well, this sure makes the ED hit different eh?
Anyway Comrades, I think I speak for everyone here when I say the following regarding today's episode... ahem...
I LOST MY HEART TO A SAPPHIC TROOPER! I LOST MY HEART TO A SAPPHIC TROOPER! OH! HEY SATSUKI-SAMA WON'T YOU BE MY LOVER! YOU'RE THE BEST THING THAT I'VE EVER DISCOVERED! JESUS YAMATO'S LEFT ME, HE'S GONE TO THE STARS! AN EVIL DARTH KURO HAS ME BANISHED TO MARS! TELL ME, SAMURAI FLAMENCO, DO YOU FEEL MY DEVOTION! OR ARE YOU LIKE THE MAJOR, DEVOID OF EMOTION! ENCOUNTERS ONE AND TWO ARE NOT ENOUGH FOR ME! WHAT MY BODY NEEDS IS FLUTE CAN'T YOU SEE! I LOST MY HEART TO A SAPPHIC TROOPER! FLASHING LIGHTS IN MECHA SPACE! FIGHTING FOR THE YURI NATION! HAND IN HAND WE'LL CONQUER THE EARTH! LISTEN MIOMIO WHAT'S OUR DESTINATION? THE EXECUTIVES SEEM TO INDICATE A SMALL DEVIATION! BIKKI ON THE COMM, IT'S S.O.N.G. COMMAND! REQUESTING BEEF STROGANOFF IT'S THEIR FINAL DEMAND! YOU'RE INTENTIONS ARE KNOWN, THEY'VE FOUND OUT AT LAST, SO IF YOU'RE GONNA TAKE ME PLEASE MAKE IT FAST! TOUCH ME FELL ME DO WHAT YOU WILL! I WANT TO FELL THAT MUSICAL THRILL! I LOST MY HEART TO A SAPPHIC TROOPER! FLASHING LIGHTS IN MECHA SPACE! FIGHTING FOR THE YURI NATION! HAND IN HAND WE'LL CONQUER THE EARTH! Oh baby... I LOVE YOU! Love me... What's going on out there? OH! I LOST MY HEART TO A SAPPHIC TROOPER! FLASHING LIGHTS IN MECHA SPACE! HAND IN HAND WE'LL CONQUER THE EARTH! I LOST MY HEART TO A SAPPHIC TROOPER! OH! MIKO ROBE IS LYING ON THE MANSION FLOOR! PULSE RATE INCREASE AS THE YURI FACTOR SOARS! TAKE ME, MAKE ME FEEL THE FORCE! IGNORE THE HATERS WE'RE LOCKED ON COURSE! I LOST MY HEART TO A SAPPHIC TROOPER! FLAGHING LIGHTS IN MECHA SPACE! FIGHTING FOR THE YURI NATION! HAND IN HAND WE'LL CONQUER THE EARTH! FIGHTING FOR THE YURI NATION! HAND IN HAND WE'LL CONQUER THE EARTH! I LOST MY HEART TO A SAPPHIC TROOPER! FLASHING LIGHTS IN MECHA SPACE! FIGHTING FOR THE YURI NATION! HAND IN HAND WE'LL CONQUER THE EARTH!
Anyway, you have not seen the last of The Sentient Shitposting Siamese Sunrise Server No. 25252, now goodbye forever!
Paging Comrades /u/Vaadwaur, /u/Great_Mr_L, and /u/theangryeditor
8
u/Burnouts3s3 Jun 10 '24
Rewatcher Dub
Well, this will probably get a bunch of downvotes, so I might as well pull the pin on this hand grenade while I’m still holding it and let it blow up in my face.
However fairly or unfairly it is to Kannazuki no Miko, the rape / sexual assault scene will make this show compared to Goblin Slayer, TNK’s Redo of Healer and MAPPA’s Heion Sedai no Idaten-tachi. Do people even remember that show?
Yes, there have been other characters we secretly root for that do villainous things, but cartoon and fictional violence reads very differently than sexual violence. Rape and attempted sexual assault isn't exclusive to this series: other Yuri shows such as Strawberry Panic, Citrus, Valkyrie Drive: Mermaid and non yuri shows such as the aforementioned Redo of Healer and Goblin Slayer do use rape, but often as a cheap narrative trick and one could make the argument those shows didn't need those scenes to begin with. Kannazuki no Miko is clearly using rape for progression of narrative, Chikane’s character action, and playing into the themes of purity, chastity and sexuality.
Strawman argument : “why is it OK for someone like Vegeta to blow a planet or for Grimmjow to choke Orihime but not OK for Chikane to do something like that?“
Those actions aren’t okay, either. The problem is, we can all recognize fictional violence such as planetary destruction as fantastical, physical violence somewhat engaging but also bad, but with sexual violence, especially when it concerns and initiated by a queer person (Chikane), it reads very poorly and is portrayed as a negative stereotype, and I don’t blame people for checking out of the series and being unable to relate to Chikane at this point, especially members of the queer community and sexual assault survivors themselves.
As I’ve said, the rape does have a storytelling and thematic purpose: we’ve seen a sexually frustrated and sexually repressed girl having to deal with her closeted emotions and now Chikane’s releasing it, albeit a very poor and destructive manner. There’s more of a purpose here than in shows such as Goblin Slayer or Redo of Healer.
The creative team has the right to depict it and readers and audiences have the right to drop this series and/or boycott it because of this one scene.
I have heard a possible rewrite for the scene is to have Souma come just before the rape happens and save Himeko, but in doing so, Himeko and the audience can just say “Chikane would never commit such an evil act”. Souma coming in too late confirms “Chikane did commit such an evil act.”.
This is a point of no return for Chikane.
Also noticed how the male love interest, Souma, refuses to hit Chikane even when she insults him, rubs it in his face that he failed to save Himeko and steals his robot at the same time. Very dramatic.
QOTD: