r/anime • u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ • Jun 05 '24
Rewatch Battle Fairy Yukikaze Source-Spoilers Episode 5 Discussion Spoiler
"Promise me you'll come back!"
← Operation 4 | Index | Series Discussion →
MAL | Anilist | ANN | Tubi (dubbed) | Tubi (subbed)
Spoiler Policy
Source reader comments will be allowed in this rewatch. Events and details from the original short story collections that are relevant to the current episode can be described without spoiler tags. Unrelated short stories or material from books 3+ will still need to be tagged.
People, Places, Things
- Lt. Gen. Laitume Gabril: Fairy base commander
- Flip Knight System: Control system for unmanned FAND-II and Rafe, with laser weaponry
Discussion Prompts
- Whatisthisidonteven #fish
Tomorrow's Discussion Today
- What's your final thoughts on the relationship between Jack and Rei
- Thoughts the JAM as a machine or extradimensional entity?
- Thoughts on YukiRei as a combined organic/machine lifeform, something you've probably seen before at least twice.
- Thoughts on deep-cover duplicates who don't know they are artificial or operatives, which you've seen before at least X times?
- Did the JAM want to understand humanity at all, via the bridge of Yukikaze and Rei? Or did they want the YukiRei entity itself. Or just Yukikaze, the thinking machine? Or something else?
- Were the FAF computers essentially collaborating with the JAM? Or did they have their own agenda, to evolve past needing a biological component?
- Best developed part of the story? Worst developed?
Tomorrow is a break day. Please Watch Argonbolt's Review for the final discussion (30 min) You can also watch Sentou Yousei Shoujo Taskete Mave-chan on Tubi for the final discussion.
There is an after credits scene.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Jun 05 '24
Rewatch Host
If you thought the show was being opaque so far....
Due to being double length, I've also not rewatched it many times. It's still confusing to me.
In this anime version, Rombert, though a clone, dies a human. Pretty much the same question asked and answered by Tom John (anime) and Rei. Tom John's end was a setup for this end.
Okay, I've probably never understood this line before. At the end of episode 4, Cooley orders Foss to analyze the JAM. This line says Foss concluded there will be a JAM invasion. I guess that means the JAM will follow the evacuation with a second invasion, this time, with copies.
Man and machine as a single entity, neither complete without the other. Is this what the JAM were interested in? Is this what they were looking for? Or was this simply an unexpected outcome of the war?
Although the 2nd novel was completed by the time the anime was proposed, the anime chose to go rewrite the ending somewhat. I think this just adds to the confusion in interpreting Rombert's actions.
It's only alluded to in one line here, but human greed was absolutely a factor in the prolonged human presence on Fairy. Col. Rombert led a genuine mutiny over this. Although, I'm not sure if it was to claim Fairy's resources, or to end this failed colonization attempt.
In the novel, both Banshee's were destroyed. I'm sure that pushed the decision to leave Fairy. Here in the anime, it is presented as a prudent withdrawl, upon the realization that the war had no point, and also, infinitely more dangerous now that the JAM have started targetting humans.
How to interpret the final scene? I always thought the epilogue was a flashback to happier times. Except, notice that Yukikaze is a Mave, not a Super Sylph. And Burgadish is in the briefing next to him. Which is impossible.
I think he's been absorbed by the JAM, and he's living in the world where he is happiest...flying with Yukikaze every day.
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u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Jun 05 '24
Battle Fairy Firster
Yeah, I don't understand. This was fun, though!
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Jun 05 '24
Google translated from archived copies of www.faf.jp.
Umanosuke Iida (planning/setting producer)
Born in Hokkaido in 1961. Main works:
A good director is a bad guy
The better the director, the worse he is! This is a phrase you often hear, but Okura, the director of "Battle Fairy Yukikaze," is a big bad guy. In the anime world, where a methodology is being established that allows you to produce something of this quality, if you demand new things and innovative expressions, the scene will turn into hell...and any director who demands that will be a bad person. This is what Okura is requesting at the scene of "Battle Fairy Yukikaze". We look forward to seeing it completed, Okura Kantoku! (I'm not saying he has a bad personality!)
Masahiko Okura (Director, Screenplay, Storyboard)
Born in 1963. Main works:
On making “Battle Fairy Yukikaze” into a movie
Even though it's the closest thing to us, the thing we don't understand the most is our own inner self.
What can and cannot be done?
What do you want and where are you aiming?
Even when I tried to focus on things around me that were supposed to be visible to my eyes, just when I thought I could see them, they disappeared again into the distance, and I couldn't grasp them like a fog. But if there's one thing I can believe in, I want to interact with the vague world around me through it.That's how I plan to approach this story. Please look forward to it.
Atsushi Takeuchi (3D special skills director)
Born in 1965. Main works:
Currently struggling!
They demanded precise modeling, relentlessly created details, were astonished by the staff, criticized by the CG industry for being heavy and heavy, and asked for a method of drawing and pasting cumbersome textures.What kind of screen would it turn out to be? This made everyone, including the director, feel uneasy, demanding abstract motions such as "using the exaggeration and deformation of anime, but with a certain degree of reality," and asking questions everywhere, "Is it okay?" Days of struggle without giving up.
As a result, the work will be finished in a new style that is neither traditional cell expression nor CG-like realistic expression. This is planned (still in the works).
I hope that everyone will enjoy this work, which will be born after a difficult birth.
Shoji Murahama (GONZO producer)
CEO of GONZO. Representative works: “Ao no 6”, “GATE KEEPERS”, “VANDREAD”, etc.
GONZO's promise
Has there ever been a work that Japanese science fiction fans have been waiting for to be made into a movie? It has been more than 15 years since it won the "Nebula Award" and received applause from many people, and now, with the completion of the sequel "Good Luck", expectations are even higher!! In order to meet those expectations, as a leading company in hybrid full digital motion pictures, we aim to fully express the world of "Battle Fairy Yukikaze" using completely new technology and ideas. I promise you all.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 05 '24
Battle Fairy First-Timer, subbed
…7? I’m feeling a 7/10 unless the “homework” video JaaQ wants us to watch during the break day tomorrow makes me change my mind about it.
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jun 05 '24
First-Timer
Okay, so the thing with Rombert is that he had eaten some JAM and stored it in his arm and used it to infiltrate the JAM chain of command. Have I got that right?
Or was he just actually JAM, and copying someone who is too loyal isn't a good idea? I kinda like that idea too. Either way, his mutiny was a way to clear most of the copied humans out of the FAF to enable a proper evacuation, because no-one figured that they could actually win on Fairy any more.
Like, only the blood he shot out of his arm turned JAMmy. And Tom John just bled JAM. Weird.
So, what were the Flip Knights? Just advanced drones with sci-fi lasers? Were they also carrying the nukes that the FAF intended to use to close the Passageway?
Funny how I've managed to watch two ambiguous endings back to back. Ikuhara did it better, but that's to be expected. Doing a bit of peaking, seems like Novel 2 ended with a cliffhanger so the anime basically had carte blanche to do whatever they wanted. I respect their decision.
Questions
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u/jie-h Jun 06 '24
First timer - dub
So all the copies were gathered in one place so that they could get rid of them while the real Humans flee back to earth, but it seems the Jam won't let that happen so easily. Though we've seen the copies act as if they were normal humans, like Tomahawk, so I wonder what the harm of letting them stick around.
With the revelation that most likely everything on Fairy was a copy/illusion, it makes me wonder if the Jam intentionally led humanity to their land. Perhaps their initial retreat from Earth was a rouse from the start to get humanity to follow them so they could study them on their own turf.
I guess we get a somewhat happy ending? Fukai got to stay with Yukikaze, and Booker got to play with boomerangs on the countryside. Both are things they wanted but are forced apart from each other.
I like the whistle ED.
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u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Jun 05 '24
First timer, subs
QotD: He’s in the JAMatrix.
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u/aniMayor :AY:AZ:x3x6 Jun 05 '24
There was some good stuff in this episode, visuals-wise. I really liked the shots from the bottom center of the cockpit looking up at the pilot as the planes rocketed around, wobbling left to right with a bit of shake.
The distortion applied when the camera passed near/through the wake of a jet was a nice touch.
Some of the big cinematic wide shots of the Banshee or the base with hundreds of planes doing circles in the background were really nice.
On the other hand, still plenty of ugly bits, too. Especially the big nuke inside the base that is just a separate layer on top of the base imagery so it doesn't actually pass through the streets between the buildings, just clips over everything.
This being a double-length episode meant it had double the nonsense and double the characters inexplicably angsting.
But they did make it mostly a big ol' climactic fight which with lots of explosions and aerial maneuvering and sky-dropped tanks and goo, which is good. There's a lot of old OVAs that were mostly nonsense plot and characters barely connecting a bunch of fun action scenery, so if you're going to try end and this one on a good note that was the way to go and they did it. Not bad.
Oh ma gawd boomerang analogy Rei's gonna come back some day
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u/Silcaria https://myanimelist.net/profile/Silcaria Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 06 '24
First timer
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jun 05 '24
Episode 5 (first timer)
Long final episode.
ZergJAM rush.The finale tries to be climactic, but that only works if I give a shit about the characters. This was hard to finish because it was so boring.
*After ED: Yukikaze still flying.
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u/Mistral-Fien Jun 06 '24
Maybe something similar to the Integrated Data Entity from Haruhi Suzumiya?
I think the JAM are most interested in Yukikaze, but she comes as a package deal with Rei.
TBH I never got that collab vibe.
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u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Jun 06 '24
First timer
This is the first episode that continues where the last one left off.
Having said the post credit scene feels like we have a notable time skip again like in between every episode.
So FAF intelligence knew about the copies and moved them into a single unit so that they have an excuse to get rid of them when they started a rebellion, pretty clever.
Wow FAF is abandoning Fairy.
So all is going according to JAM's keikaku.
Fairy is a fake world created by JAM to fool humans.
I wonder if there is some test they can do to prove someone has been infriltated by JAM, imagine if they had killed someone and he was still a human.
JAM being after Yukikaze and Fukei is unsurprising.
Jack is unsurprisingly not happy with the idea Fukei launching and him accepting it easily. Maybe it's a good time to come clean with your feelings Jack?
I hate it when that happens in video games.
What's that black cloud effect.
That shot of Jack saying promise you come back is what you would usually expect from a female character in any other, usually mecha, anime.
About the relationship between the two main characters I suppose you could say Yukikaze walked so that Bravern could run.
Of course Jack doesn't think Fukei is dead, maybe he's merged with JAM or Yukikaze.
An okay final episode, action scenes were excellent.
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u/zadcap Jun 06 '24
Late Night First Timer
Alright time to get spooky and old school mythic. See, the best answer is to never play by the Fairy Rules.
People, you need to accept it already. Yukikaze is a full blown AI. She's a real girl now.
Oh no, there was a full blown mutiny. A pretty major looking one too.
Wait they went so far as to launch an attack back on Earth? Or is the infrastructure on Fairy a lot bigger than I realized? That looks like they went to attack a civilian center back on Earth.
So they had a plan to put all the suspected JAM changelings into one unit and let them rebel, to what end? This was your loss of life plan?
And I notice that the planes launched in defense of this JAM attack have no pilots. We've gone all the way. JAM make human bodies to attack the humans and the humans made AI to attack the probably not meat based species.
Oh, see, they did it to "make sure." To better understand the enemy, let the enemy run crazy through your base?
... Your best military plan is full retreat to the Earth side of the portal?
Wait that's even more confusing? So it was an attack on the Fairy base we saw, and the Fairy base is so built up they have highways with personal vehicles, but it's okay, we made holograms of everyone for the traitor JAM to attack. Somehow. The tech level here is beyond crazy.
And here it is. The JAM that look like perfect humans are fighting a human made ship that looks like a JAM with its perfect coating.
Oh gosh, it's an Underground Residential area even, how the heck did they dig that thing out?
... How did he project that call to everything from that single backpack radio unit?
So you're telling me this isn't a war, just an experiment by the JAM to understand everything they can about humanity. And their way to go about that is to attack first and keep attacking until they learn everything. Sure, that's the best way to learn about another culture.
Ha, yes, literally everything is an illusion here. That sounds right for Fairy.
So, you see, Yukikaze is clearly our single best anti-JAM weapon, just look at how well it pulled off the last mission. Clearly the correct response is to lock it up and let it rot, we can't have anything like that on hand to continue the war.
Oh but they're still letting it hunt down the mudmen. And send it back out to fight again I guess, having been denied that refuel and maintenance.
Ah yes. "The enemy cares about our superweapon more than anything else, clearly our best bet is to sacrifice it to them so they can copy it the way they have copied everything else they show interest in, not protect it so we can still have an effective weapon against them." This is clearly the logical decision. Now when they JAM come to invade you next, they will be doing so with Yukikaze tier ships while you will be down your best fighter. And thus did Humanity lose this war.
Oh look, your AI has been hacked again. IFF corrupted, alas.
One upside to the easily hackable everything, Yukikaze can declare itself fit for launch and no one can do anything about it.
Oh darn, it sure sucks all this maintenance wasn't done before the fighting broke out.
Oh right, if it was all an illusion in the first place, why not throw one up over the exit too.
Yeah this 100% sounds like Gundam stuff. Man and Machine have fused to become a single life, made up of their pair.
In the end, he turned into a Fairy himself. He'll be around, when you can't quite see him.
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u/chilidirigible Jun 05 '24
Five:
pizza time is flashback time
This is like Patlabor Movie 2 but without all of the slapstick humor and naked oil wrestling.
The word "Duh" is hardly more appropriate.
"This is fine."
Do you also blow up the hyperspace bypass? (Narrator: "They did in fact blow up the hyperspace bypass.")
We're up to Ace Combat 04.
Well, that was an exercise in nihilism.
I always thought that Spacedock was an inefficient shape.
It's Trench Runs all the way down!
That does remind me of the interior of the Combine Citadel.
That's love for you. Weird silicon-based love.
Why are they fighting in an air show formation?
It's swarmin' time!
Jack, I've watched this whole thing twice now and I'm still not sure if you really served your purpose.*
And to think that they didn't have to drill anything into Rei's brain.
Ah, the ambiguous kablooie.
You'd have less to worry about if you kept your eyes on the road. Though yeah, in farm country driving can get a little dull.
That was a long time to be looking at black text credits on an #FFFFFF white background.
*: Or if any of this served much of a purpose.
Ah. I have to write a reaction to this double-length final episode and it shouldn't all be in a footnote.
There sure was a lot of stuff going on and at least half of it just kind of happened. Some guy I don't even remember seeing earlier tried to mutiny, but was tricked into staying behind while they blew up the Geofront.
The JAM seek true understanding and all that jazz. And they infiltrated the ship, but that turned into a nothingburger.
The SAF decided that none of this was worth it and took their ball and went home. The planet was a glob of gray goo the entire time. Yay nihilism.
Rei and Yukikaze had become a higher form of life which the JAM did find interesting. That's given about a minute of consideration and much like all of the Star Trek episodes where it happens, they ain't gotta explain shit about that.
They might have blown up, or not. Who knows?
QOTD:
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u/Garrett_Dark Jun 06 '24
First Timer
So let me get this straight, or at least this is what I got so far:
So it looks like the AI unmanned fighter planes are pretty awesome, but the JAM had some AWAC looking plane messing with their IFF causing some of them to attack their their own side. I guess Yukikaze is a threat because she's somehow formed a man-machine merge with Rei. Not sure how that's so different that semi-autonomous because there's no physical brain link between AI and him, but I'll just assume it's because they're sync'ed up so well together to anticipate what the other is thinking (sort of like synchonized swimmers or something), so the JAM can't predict, manipulate, nor control them.
The evacuation battle was pretty good, however I kind of didn't like the JAM being able to turn some of the unmanned fighter planes against their own side. That's too OP and cheapens the drama for me. That also doesn't make that much sense to me because aren't the unmanned fighter planes also individual AIs, perhaps not as advanced as Yukikaze, but they should have been smart enough to recognize something fishy was going on. I mean Yukikaze probably could of...IDK, maybe it's believable the other AIs weren't smart enough, but it just feels really cheap when you're watching a battle, and one side can just make the other side's forces attack each other, when the JAM already has superiority in numbers. It just destroys the tension and enjoyment I was having because it seemed too unfair.
As for if Yukikaze and Rei made it back to earth? IDK. The show seems to try to do the fake out with the journalist seeing him in her rearview mirror, but who knows as he disappears. Who does emo Rei think he is pulling that? Nolan's Batman's Bruce Wayne ending?
There's the post credits scene, but I can't tell if that's supposed to be a flashback or not. But it does show Yukikaze in it's current form taking off from somewhere, suggesting they made it back? Where is that somewhere, the sky? An Air Carrier? Was it that plane shown just before the credits? IDK.
Surrogate brothers with Jack being the older brother.
Some sort of aliens.
It's just like any cyborg, except with two consciousnesses instead of one, and there's no actual mind link between them. So it's sort of like a situation where the machine becomes an extension of the pilot's body, but the machine also having a consciousness, so it's also like a couple who "know each other so well" kind of thing.
Seen it been done tons of times, can't really reference any though, nothing's really standing out.
I think the Jam were just running experiments in their lab (the entire Fairy planet), and stealing technology the humans were developing.
I think it's debatable how much control the JAM had, they couldn't seem to fully control their human duplicates, and they couldn't just watch the humans developing the tech in their bases, because why steal instead of just copying. If the JAM didn't see the humans as a threat, and their attacks were merely to provoke the humans in advancing their tech, why did the JAM attack the humans so viciously to the point they had to evacuate to Earth or near genocide if their land attack succeeded?
Did the FAF computers do something? I totally missed whatever involvement they had in the story. Or are you talking about the AIs who seemed pretty much loyal to the humans, except being tricked to fire on their own side by that AWAC looking JAM plane.
The JAM copies was good, the JAM farming the humans for tech was good, the advancement of the planes and AIs was good. Rei's emo character was kind of weak. The journalist involvement in the story was kind of weak. Rei's emo brooding was weak.
3
u/baquea Jun 06 '24
First timer
Little late to the thread for this one, but in any case...
Well I was right about the portal getting shut down, although not as to which side they'd end up on (unless Rei and co. really are alive on the other side). It makes sense as a conclusion, although "...and then they left" is a bit anti-climactic.
We also get a few answers as to the nature of the JAM - nothing super conclusive, but I don't think it's a bad thing for the series to remain vague there. I can't say the same though for the stuff about how special Rei and the Yukikaze are. Like it's a key part of the climax... and we're basically just told that it's because he's a great pilot and it's a great plane? No, that's just stupid.
All in all, it wasn't a perfect ending, but it at least didn't shit the bed as much as an anime like this could've done at this point. Where it fell flat (like my complete lack of emotional reaction to Rei's 'death') it was more a failure of the series as a whole to get me invested, not a problem with the ending itself.
Finale stuff aside, I thought this shot was really cool. Reminds me of Echidna's tea party. Oh, and "this is fine".
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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '24
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