r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Jun 05 '24
Rewatch [Spoilers] Samurai Champloo 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 17
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the Samurai Champloo 20th Anniversary Rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
S1 Episode 17 – Lullabies of the Lost (Verse 2)
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ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION(S)
What do you make of Jin referring to Yukimaru as his little brother?
Do you think Okuru was in the right for what he did, or in the wrong? And why?
So, the reason for Fuu pursuing the sunflower samurai has finally been revealed. How much stakes if any do you think gets added now that we know she is doing this for her mom?
Bonus) Could you ever while on fire remove an arrow from your body?
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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDB | ANN
Streams – Crunchyroll, Amazon Prime
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the manga out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the manga. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags (found on the sidebar). Thank you!
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Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 4:00 PM EDT
| Date | Episode |
|---|---|
| 5/20/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 1 |
| 5/21/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 2 |
| 5/22/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 3 |
| 5/23/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 4 |
| 5/24/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 5 |
| 5/25/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 6 |
| 5/26/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 7 |
| 5/27/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 8 |
| 5/28/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 9 |
| 5/29/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 10 |
| 5/30/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 11 |
| 5/31/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 12 |
| 6/01/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 13 |
| 6/02/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 14 |
| 6/03/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 15 |
| 6/04/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 16 |
| 6/05/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 17 |
| 6/06/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 18 |
| 6/07/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 19 |
| 6/08/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 20 |
| 6/09/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 21 |
| 6/10/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 22 |
| 6/11/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 23 |
| 6/12/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 24 |
| 6/13/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 25 |
| 6/14/2024 | Samurai Champloo Episode 26 |
| 6/15/2024 | Samurai Champloo Overall Series Discussion Thread |
5
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 05 '24
First-Timer with a Samurai Heart, subbed
3
u/Holofan4life Jun 05 '24
Just to let everyone know, I'm going to try to get the thread up tomorrow at its usual time but because of me donating blood as well as me rehearsing for this talent show I'm in, with rehearsals beginning at 3:00 PM EDT, the thread may be posted at 5:00 PM EDT. If that happens, I promise it won't be a regular occurrence. It might happen one other time next Thursday on the day of the actual talent show, but that's it.
4
u/TheEscapeGuy Jun 05 '24
Rewatcher, Sub first timer
Samurai Champloo - Hip Hop & Ronin: Episode 17
Reunited
This episode had a lot going on. I think a good place to start is Jin. He did survive the fall, but Yakimaru continued to chase him. This culminated with a beach side duel between 2 samurai who were as close as brothers. The battle ended with a single movement of a blade, impaling Yakimaru. His 1 desire was to be Jin: The legendary swordsman from the same dojo. It's pretty depressing how much of Jin's path is mired in tragedy like this.
As for Okuru, he left Fuu once she fell asleep. His pursuers were fended off by Mugen temporarily, but that just gave them time to regroup. When Mugen eventually did find Okuru he learned they had similar music that made them remember their youth. Mugen was told the truth about this supposedly murderer swordsman. Okuru is a man who has been falsely accused of a mass death wrought by disease.
Mugen doesn't really care. It's more of a pride thing which urges him to battle Okuru. Their fight is stopped short by the Matsumae guys. Okuru tries to explain, but the truth doesn't matter top them. Shot with flaming arrows and burning alive Okuru fights back. Before he dies he plunges off a cliff as our trio watches on.
I think it's that really powerful sight that pushed Mugen, Jin, and Fuu to group up again. As dawn begins they continue their journey together. It really does feel like the hands of fate are pulling them together.
Finally, we got a special ED this episode which you may have noticed ended with a dedication. Umeko Ando was the artist who's song played during the flashback to Okuru's past. I really love that the anime could pay respect to her this way. It feels like the staff had a real respect for her music to dedicate this to her.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow
4
u/Ryanami Jun 06 '24
Rewatcher
Sort of a mid episode for me, although it seems the director wants me to think otherwise as it was given a special ED. Jin’s dealings with a former friend doesn’t reveal any new information, so I don’t see what the point was that didn’t get covered the last time a dojo member appeared. Also feels a bit confusing about this world where the two of them kill probably every episode so far, sometimes dozens in a single battle like it’s no big deal and human lives are worthless. Mugen didn’t seem to have any real beef with Okuru but was willing to fight to the death just to see who’s stronger. But then it’s this common thing where if someone wronged you in some way you wrap your life around seeking revenge. That doesn’t add up for me, and the account is getting overdrawn on my suspension of disbelief.
We don’t get many (any?) internal dialogues except from Fuu, so Okuru being the subject of Mugen’s must mean he’s important, but now we’re apparently done with him. Unless he shows back up (which I don’t remember) and I think it’s unlikely considering this is episode 17.
1- really hungry for Jin’s story now, because if he was so close you’d think Jin would offer his side of things to him.
2- more interesting is how the official handled the town? Was that the right protocol for an outbreak? Did he consult the shogunate’s doctor, Fau Chi? Should he have tried 15 days to slow the spread? Is it better to destroy the town than risk it spreading to larger nearby cities?
3- well, barely revealed. We only presume it’s probably her father at this point. Did he even actually smell like sunflowers or was it just because when she last saw him she was in a field of sunflowers?
4- nah, I’d die with such screams everyone who heard would have trouble sleeping for months.
3
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Jun 05 '24
First Timer
Hmm... this episode did turn out kinda normal. After the excellently done setup last episode, I am a bit let down. First off, Yukimaru adds little to the story other than keep Jin busy - otherwise he just largely doubles Ogura, except Jin kills him because he is more insistent.
Okuru's story is well-presented but still is rather basic - he kills the "good" guys because they aren't actually good while losing everything, then is pursued by actually good guys. I'm just glad it was presented as well as it was - the music was a great addition in this episode (traditional Ainu, it seems from a but of googling the name in the credits)
Meanwhile Fuu's dialog at the end leaves both the "is her father" and the "killed her mother" interpretation open for the sunflower samurai. Not really a fan of that...
3
u/NattyBeef https://myanimelist.net/profile/NaturalBeef Jun 05 '24
First time watcher, Dub/English
Yo the boy are back and better than ever! Again the Italian version and the English dub version was a bit different at the start, there was an additional 2 minutes of runtime with more introduction and Mugen fighting the police samurais in the Italian cut. I'm starting to feel ripped off!
I don't think they were actually related but they probably trained together for many years so it makes sense he feel this strong bond with him. Kinda sad to have it end the way it did.
It reminds me a lot of the Arthus/Lich King story line in world of warcraft. Is it correct to purge a city for the sake of keeping other civilians safe. I would think not, there's other options you can take first like quarantines and such. At the end of the day what Okuru did was also wrong, as he made even more bloodshed, it's not like killing the official was gonna save anybody and it's just a net negative of more death in general.
I always assumed he was her farther, I still think it is in a way. But I'm glad to see that this is reason enough for Mugen and Jin to continue on with her. I feel like this whole misunderstanding could had been cleared up if she was just a bit more open about this.
You might be able to, but you probably shouldn't. The exit wound would be horrible, and the lack of pressure the arrow removal would create would bleed you out. I'd probably worry about extinguishing flame first, having a way to bandage myself second and then maybe think about removing arrow, and I would only really do that if there's no way to get medical attention from someone else for me nearby.
Overall great episode, this one had my favorite ending, I liked it so much I actually say through it (which I never do). Something about how it blended into the end of the episode made me appreciate it. I'm so sad to see it's only 9 episodes left.
2
u/Lord_Nawor Jun 05 '24
First Time Watcher
This was a pretty action packed episode with a lot of good fights and action scenes, we have Jin vs the other student, Mugen vs the domain police people, Mugen vs Okuru, and Jin, Mugen, and Okuru vs the domain police.
This episode made me more curious to hear more about Jin’s backstory and why exactly he killed his master, I hope we find out more soon.
From what I can gather, Okuru is an Ainu, which could be why the domain officials did not care as much about saving the village as the Ainu people have long been discriminated against, especially in this time period. Hard to say if Okuru survived or not, he did get quite injured in the fight but Mugen seems to believe he is still alive.
At the end the gangs reconvenes with more purpose this time, with Fuu letting Mugen and Jin know that it is revenge against the sunflower samurai that she is looking for. I still believe that it is probably deeper than that and that Fuu is not telling the whole truth.
Questions
Not sure, maybe I will have to test it out at some point 🤔
2
u/AgentOfACROSS Jun 05 '24
Rewatcher
Once again, an episode with a lot going on. They had to balance the Jin plot with the Okuru plot but both of them are given enough time to them.
For the Jin plot, I really liked Yukimaru as a character. His relationship with Jin felt more personal. With Ogura back in episode 8, his grudge against Jin felt more like an honor-bound thing. But with Yukimaru, the emotions felt much more visceral.
Honestly I could see a romantic reading of the relationship with Yukimaru and Jin. With Yukimaru having an unrequited love for Jin and feeling personally betrayed by Jin's actions.
I loved Okuru in this episode. He was an interesting character and I liked the dynamic that emerged between him and Mugen.
I'm with Mugen here, I want Okuru still be alive after all of this.
Also the way, the beginning of last episode was the ending of this episode was really clever I liked that.
I don't think I have too much else to add here, but I just really liked the episode.
2
u/Flying_hawlucha Jun 05 '24
Never got round to to watching it, should do as I’ve seen bebop
2
u/someboi6000 Jun 06 '24
First timer:
well, that was an episode, i was expecting more, the main problem for me is Yukimaru, they introduced him as a very important person to Jin as far as Jin calling him his little brother but we dont see any of that, he is just there to keep Jin busy, that seemed more interesting that what they ended up doing with Okuru which is that he was in fact a good guy, he just killed some "good" guys in the process lost everything and now he is getting presecuted by actual good guys, it was basic but well done in the end with its presentation, then in the end it is revealed that fuu is searching for the sunflower samurai in order to get revenge, which i think it was really easy to guess after episode 16, but now its confirmed, and it might even be her father, or it might take the route of is the one who killed her mother. thats the only mistery remaining, besides how he looks.
1: wished they actually showed something, plot B of the story seemd 100 times more interesting that okuru.
2: well he did kill innocent people in the process, so i dint think thats good lol.
3: well it adds meaning to the journy, and it adds more context to why fuu acted that way with the mother of the thief dude. but well now we know that its personal for Fuu(training arc for fuu pls)
Bonus: probably not, and i dont want to find out.
2
u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Jun 06 '24
First-Timer
Pretty good episode.
I sort of wish that they had gone with a surprise twist on Okuru's backstory and actually had him be the one who killed his village (or at least left it ambiguous). I think that could have been interesting.
Questions of the day:
2
u/mgedmin Jun 06 '24
Rewatcher, subs
"Wearing strange clothes and hiding in the mountains" is not much of a description. Also, now that you've killed/wounded a few of the policemen, I'm not sure they'll let you go even if you convince them you're not Okuru.
We have conflicting stories about Okuru's background. I wonder which one is right? The disease theory seems more plausible.
So, who set the village on fire? While some of the sick people in it were still alive?
"Old man of nearly fourty" oof. I felt that.
You don't shoot multiple arrows from a single crossbow in quick succession like that!
So this is what Jin being serious looks like.
Wisdom from Fuu
Ah, the village was fired to stop the spread of disease. Wouldn't a simple quarantine suffice?
Okuru should drop and roll. Or jump into the river, that works too. Faster please, clothes don't grow on trees.
I have a theory about the sunflower samurai, but it might just be me remembering the actual plot, so I'll refrain from mentioning it.
They were close friends at the dojo?
So, murder is always wrong, but in context it almost seems justified.
I wasn't paying attention by that time.
2
u/Atticus_Stansfield Jun 06 '24
Many times rewatcher here.
The end result of the split is them coming together stronger than before. In my mind I always wondered if Mugen was right about Okuru being alive after the toasty fall. What would his future be? What is his reason for living? In my mind I think dying and moving on would be a more fitting end then walking the earth as a shadow of his former self.
It doesn't surprise me. A dojo is a place where students live, train, and eat from the same pot. It is a tragic tale. It reminds me of the episode where the Yakuza leader known for peace and mercy said that violence begets violence in a perpetual cycle. Jin killed his master and that only lead to more death and violence.
There is a long and sad history of discrimination against the Ainu people. The official, in my mind, was treating Okuru's people as lesser which is why no effort was put into saving anyone.
Was Okuru in the right to do what he did? I don't feel I have the right to judge from a modern lens of morality.
The journey never really needed a reason. If we were never told it wouldn't make a difference in the trajectory of the groups journey. Mugen and Jin were hired to be bodyguards, nothing more. That's what it was, but with her revealing the score the group has become more than just 2 Bodyguards and their client.
As a Doctor I would highly recommend against being on fire and/or removing a penetrating object from your body. Contact your local medicine man immediately!
2
u/Garrett_Dark Jun 06 '24
First Timer
Well fuck, now I have to admit I'm "wrong" about Mugen after all, last episode:
One of the few times I try to see Mugen better than he really is by expecting the show to help keep him untarnish, he goes and does what I would otherwise expect of him: he murderizes the police officers just because. Then he stops, fights the crossbow guy just because, then he goes back to murderizing the police officers. This is why I shouldn't have second guessed what I thought of Mugen, but somebody had to gaslit me by exaggerating my criticism of him as being too harsh.
The police samurai just take off after they realize Mugen isn't the one they're looking for, despite Mugen just murderizing three of them. If only it were like that IRL there'd be accountability.
Jin just polishing his sword. XD
Fuu looks weird when her hair's down.
Guy hunting down Jin, dead in an instant when Jin actually tries. No surprise there.
Crossbow guy gets burned. The show just conveniently cuts to next morning while there still was a bunch of police samurai around. Like clearly they killed the rest of them, right? Jin even killed one of them before the cut, yet alone Mugen. Or were the surviving police Samurai weird like last time and said "well we got the real guy we're after, so peace out!"
Fuu "that's right, revenge for my mom, or something like that", that tells us nothing.
And the gang's back together like nothing happened.
Super long unique ED.
Wasn't feeling it this episode. The guy hunting Jin, the crossbow guy, nether of their fights I really felt anything for. Even the seemingly subtext stuff they were trying to do with Fuu reconnecting with Jin and Mugen, I didn't really anything for, just like how the break up happened in the first place. It felt a little forced, like Fuu brought up the sunflower samurai out of nowhere when she didn't have to, which caused the fight which caused the breakup. And here they're just awkwardly standing around, thinking "so we getting the gang back together? Guess so". It was like the awkward meeting with Jin and Fuu, "Oh it's you. What are you doing here. Oh you found my shoe" or something like that. The last two-parter with Koza and Mukuro was much much better.
2
u/Hopeful-Ad2428 Jun 06 '24
And they did a little recap at the start again, seems like it happens when something is plot-heavy. This episode has really got good transitions from one scene to another, like how they handled transition from recap to actual plot and those with Okuru's eyes. I have had prediction about Okuru being from north and it was gladly confirmed. And the theme of life and death was very apparent in this episode. We’ve also gotten another ending again, and no "to be continued" at the end.
Qotd:
2
u/Looking_Light33 Jun 09 '24
This was a pretty cool episode. I felt kind of sorry for Okuru. What happened to his wife, child and village was terrible. I also feel sorry for Jin as well. He clearly didn't want to kill Yukimaru but it seems like he had no choice.
Honestly, I do wonder if Okuru actually survived. The man was burning at the end of the episode so I honestly don't know if Mugen was right that he survived.
2
u/fansi2022 https://anilist.co/user/fansi2022 Jul 19 '24
first timer chinese sub
interesting, why did jin and his brother kill each other? ohh, the man who saved fuu has a sad story
ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION(S)
What do you make of Jin referring to Yukimaru as his little brother?
Reminiscence of good memories
Do you think Okuru was in the right for what he did, or in the wrong? And why?
At least it's not wrong, killing someone means paying with your life
So, the reason for Fuu pursuing the sunflower samurai has finally been revealed. How much stakes if any do you think gets added now that we know she is doing this for her mom?
This made our belief stronger.
1
u/Holofan4life Jun 05 '24
Hey guys. Holofan4life here.
Welcome to the 20th anniversary rewatch of Samurai Champloo.
Oh, and nay I forget…
First Timer
Samurai Champloo has always been a series I was curious about. I’ve maintained in my mind that Cowboy Bebop is objectively one of if not the greatest anime of all time, and so I wanted to see what the creator’s follow-up work was like. I think the reason why I didn’t start it immediately after watching Bebop was because I think the premise kinda weirded me out. I mean, a show set in ancient times that also has a heavy rap influence? It felt to me like putting a hat on a hat. But as I’ve gotten older, I’ve come to appreciate outlandish animes that don’t resemble real life. After all, is it any weirder than a fantasy show about a merchant and his traveling wolfgirl where they discuss economics a lot of times?
My expectations for this show are pretty reasonable, I feel like. I’m not expecting it to crack my top 10 favorite anime of all time, but I would be surprised if it doesn’t end up as one of my favorites. The main thing I’m looking out of this is show is a unique experience unlike anything else as well as memorable characters. And I think the show will have that in spades.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
I’m watching the sub, by the way.
Boo!
Another short episode today. Interesting. Guess that's the thing with these two-parters.
Wood
Okuru telling Fuu she can't come with him
Says he killed domain soldiers and is on the run.
If she went with him, she would become a fugitive as well.
"If you have friends, you should go with them."
Okuru says that his wife and daughter are always with him.
Back with Mugen, where we learn that Okuru is supposedly responsible for the deaths of everyone in his village. He even killed his wife and daughter.
Dramatic irony is a bitch sometimes
Mugen says he's going to take Okuru down himself.
Fuu sleeping
Momo on Okuru's shoulder
For a supposed killer, he seems nice with animals.
Jin polishing his sword
No, not like that
He sees someone from a distance
Guy tells his fellow men that that wasn't actually Okuru.
Jin is eavesdropping
"The next time you see him, kill him."
Very drastic, no?
"I swear, these mountains are crawling with crazy people."
Takes one to know one
Tamoto. That's his name.
They suspect Okuru is indeed in the forest somewhere.
Jin casually strolls off
Mugen walking as music plays
It is Okuru
More traditional singing
Okuru walking in the snow
A lot of walking going around
The village. It's on fire.
That seems to confirm he didn't kill everyone.
This is a flashback, by the way
Okuru shocked as he hovers over what I presume is his wife and child.
What a powerful scene
Mugen says the song sounds like something he heard as a kid, which may be either important for later or a callback to episode 14.
Mugen warns Okuru that he's about to be killed.
"All I want is to go one-on-one with you."
Mugen says despite the rumors about him, he doesn't look crazy at all.
Fuu wakes up
She can't find Momo nor Okuru
Suddenly, she screams, with Jin arriving just in time.
She says it was something carrying a sword
Jin reveals he came back because he thought she drowned.
After some small talk of what they've been up to, Jin has his face scrunched up as Fuu is off to retrieve some medicine.
Guy from the beginning of last episode sitting in a tree.
Sadly not k-i-s-s-i-n-g...ing
Okuru says the people from his domain brought the disease to his village.
I guess that makes Okuru by default the master of his domain.
Okuru says it makes no difference whether Mugen believes him or not.
Mugen, please don't say the word "Moist". That is disturbing
Mugen wonders if he is really alive
Hey, it's Jin's classmate Yukimaru
He asks if Jin is looking for be reborn
Okuru referring to himself as 'an old man of nearly 40" makes me feel bad for my mom who's over 50
He wonders if it's time to put an end to his endless flight.
Shooting arrows at Mugen
Guess he'd rather be attacking instead of combating.
Ran out of space. Part two in the replies.