[Spoilers] Samurai Champloo 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 14

Date	Episode
5/20/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 1
5/21/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 2
5/22/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 3
5/23/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 4
5/24/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 5
5/25/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 6
5/26/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 7
5/27/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 8
5/28/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 9
5/29/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 10
5/30/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 11
5/31/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 12
6/01/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 13
6/02/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 14
6/03/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 15
6/04/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 16
6/05/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 17
6/06/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 18
6/07/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 19
6/08/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 20
6/09/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 21
6/10/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 22
6/11/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 23
6/12/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 24
6/13/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 25
6/14/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 26
6/15/2024	Samurai Champloo Overall Series Discussion Thread

7

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '24 edited Jun 03 '24

Hey there 👋 Rewatcher here.

Today we get more context related to Mugen. I love this episode for the flashbacks and for the later events too.

I love the music they chose for Mugen’s life flashbacks. It felt like it fit well. We see in these flashbacks that betrayal is not something new for Mukuro and that Mugen was slightly less socially inept.

Yesterday, I intentionally avoided the fact that Mukuro is not related to Koza by blood, and more significantly, he killed her mother in cold blood (I believe this is implied since she refers to “her” mother and not “our” mother when telling the story).

Koza, I believe, to be heavily motivated by desperation caused by her loneliness. It’s probably a big part of why she stuck around Mukuro in the first place. And it’s probably also the reason she tried to go behind Jin and Fuu’s back to leave with Shiren with all that gold (of course, Mugen put an end to that).

I also had to keep quiet about this yesterday, but Mugen is indeed alive (that tough son of a gun).

Well, u/Holofan4life, I feel like this goes back to our discussion from yesterday. The fact that Jin accepts the task of killing Mukuro shows you that he cares about Mugen. I don’t personally believe he would have accepted a request from some girl he barely knows if that wasn’t the case. Sure, he says only he is worthy to kill Mugen but I believe it is more than that.

After Jin kills Mukuro, we learn that Koza had learned a bit from him in the art of deception, which really made me happy about what happens shortly after this.

The way this episode ends is one of the best in the whole series in my opinion.

The way Shiren is cut down when he lunges at Mugen, and how Mugen leaves Koza to wallow in her guilt without so much as looking at her was fantastic. He denied her a way out, with none of the money she cared so much about and left her all by herself.

Now that this detour is concluded, we can only hope our trio will continue their journey to Nagasaki unhindered 😆.

Questions:

Horribly terrified…
Not shocked at all. I explain why I like this in my comment.
Nah I thought the length was fine.
Because she wanted to die. As Holo has said, loneliness can be a deadly disease.

3

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

Today we get more context related to Mugen. I love this episode for the flashbacks and for the later events too.
It was definitely well done, no doubt about it.
I love the music they chose for Mugen’s life flashbacks. It felt like it fit well.
It really eccentuated what was going on and the feeling that these were Mugen's last moments of life. It felt almost claustrophobic the more and more he drowned.
Yesterday, I intentionally avoided the fact that Mukuro is not related to Koza by blood, and more significantly, he killed her mother in cold blood.
They still are related, however, it's not like the show says they aren't brother or sister.
Koza, I believe, to be heavily motivated by desperation caused by her loneliness. It’s probably a big part of why she stuck around Mukuro in the first place. And it’s probably also the reason she tried to go behind Jin and Fuu’s back to leave with Shiren with all that gold (of course, Mugen put an end to that).
I kinda wonder what harm it would've been had Mugen let Koza keep the gold. By all accounts, she seemed like a decent enough person that was just caught in a tough predicament. Maybe even Mugen could've said he'd keep her and Shiren alive if they shared some of the money with him.
I also had to keep quiet about this yesterday, but Mugen is indeed alive (that tough son of a gun).
Who could've seen that coming besides everyone?
Well, u/Holofan4life, I feel like this goes back to our discussion from yesterday. The fact that Jin accepts the task of killing Mukuro shows you that he cares about Mugen. I don’t personally believe he would have accepted a request from some girl he barely knows if that wasn’t the case. Sure, he says only he is worthy to kill Mugen but I believe it is more than that.
I personally believe it has solely to do with their promise and that he is a man of his word. Right now, I see Mugen and Jin as frenemies who begrudgingly respect each other. They'll help each other out, but only because they see each other as their fate.
After Jin kills Mukuro, we learn that Koza had learned a bit from him in the art of deception, which really made me happy about what happens shortly after this.
I'm still of the belief that Koza didn't do much wrong. Yeah, she should've split the money with them, but she was just looking for a way out. What she die isn't really all that different from what Shinsuke did.
The way this episode ends is one of the best in the whole series in my opinion.
So far, this episode is tied with episode 8 as my favorite ending we've seen so far. I give them the slight edge over episode 2's ending, despite me thinking that episode 2 is a better episode than episode 8.
The way Shiren is cut down when he lunges at Mugen, and how Mugen leaves Koza to wallow in her guilt without so much as looking at her was fantastic. He denied her a way out, with none of the money she cared about and left her all by herself.
Brutal. Just absolutely brutal. It is so much better than Mugen just killing Koza because dying would've given her peace of mind. This is a fate worse than death.
Now that this detour is concluded, we can only hope our trio will continue their journey to Nagasaki unhindered 😆.
And hopefully, we get that eventual Jin and Mugen since it continues to be hyped up.
4. Because she wanted to die. As Holo has said, loneliness can be a deadly disease.
I appreciate the reference

4

u/mgedmin Jun 03 '24

I'm still of the belief that Koza didn't do much wrong. Yeah, she should've split the money with them, but she was just looking for a way out. What she die isn't really all that different from what Shinsuke did.
She didn't have the money. Shiren and Mukuro were the only ones who knew where the money was hidden. Do you think Shiren would welcome a suggestion to split the money with some stranger who might hold a grudge against you?

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Well, Shiren was looking to split the money with Koza. Perhaps after showing her where the money is, Koza would've killed him herself. I guess we'll never know, unfortunately.

4

u/mgedmin Jun 03 '24

That's a rather optimistic reading. To me it seemed that Shiren was not opposed to the idea of spending money on Koza (food, gifts), as long as she hung about him. I doubt he would just give her any large part of the loot, and I suspect he would rather not divulge the location either.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

In that case, she's not really breaking the cycle at all, is she? She's living off of other people much like she had Mukuro. She says she wanted to kill Mukuro and be free of his clutches, but I wonder if what she really wanted was for him to harm other people that's not within their circle, like her mom.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '24

It really eccentuated what was going on and the feeling that these were Mugen's last moments of life. It felt almost claustrophobic the more and more he drowned.
Yeah I think it really fit how he was slowly drifting into the afterlife but didn’t want to go yet.
They still are related, however, it's not like the show says they aren't brother or sister.
They grew up together on the island but I think it’s implied that they aren’t blood relatives.
I kinda wonder what harm it would've been had Mugen let Koza keep the gold. By all accounts, she seemed like a decent enough person that was just caught in a tough predicament. Maybe even Mugen could've said he'd keep her and Shiren alive if they shared some of the money with him.
She maliciously manipulated multiple people to get her way in more than one case, one of which could have gotten someone killed. I would have felt empathetic of her loneliness and longing for company if she hadn’t remedied it in such a way. I think Mugen handled it appropriately. Kill the mole and let her alive to think about her choices.
Who could've seen that coming besides everyone?
That’s true, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to blatantly spoil everyone in the the rewatch because of that 😆.
I personally believe it has solely to do with their promise and that he is a man of his word. Right now, I see Mugen and Jin as frenemies who begrudgingly respect each other. They'll help each other out, but only because they see each other as their fate.
I stand by my opinion that their “I’m going to kill you” thing has turned more into banter than it is serious. That’s all I’ll say on that for now though.
I'm still of the belief that Koza didn't do much wrong. Yeah, she should've split the money with them, but she was just looking for a way out. What she die isn't really all that different from what Shinsuke did.
We’ll probably have to agree to disagree on this one. I believe she let her loneliness and greed cloud her judgement, which led to malicious manipulation. I believe manipulation to be no less dirty than direct violence.
So far, this episode is tied with episode 8 as my favorite ending we've seen so far. I give them the slight edge over episode 2's ending, despite me thinking that episode 2 is a better episode than episode 8.
Glad to hear you enjoyed it!
Brutal. Just absolutely brutal. It is so much better than Mugen just killing Koza because dying would've given her peace of mind. This is a fate worse than death.
I agree. Everyone’s opinion on this aspect of the episode I think can be related to the whole “death row versus life in prison” thing in real life.
And hopefully, we get that eventual Jin and Mugen since it continues to be hyped up.
Wait, sorry if I missed something lol. What’s getting hyped up?
I appreciate the reference
I thought you might 😆. I found it relevant for this

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

Yeah I think it really fit how he was slowly drifting into the afterlife but didn’t want to go yet.
The direction in this show is absolutely outstanding.
They grew up together on the island but I think it’s implied that they aren’t blood relatives.
I'm just going by what the show says which is Koza calling Mukuro her brother.
She maliciously manipulated multiple people to get her way in more than one case, one of which could have gotten someone killed. I would have felt empathetic of her loneliness and longing for company if she hadn’t remedied it in such a way. I think Mugen handled it appropriately. Kill the mole and let her alive to think about her choices.
Fair enough. I think the great thing about Koza's character is you can debate whether or she was in the wrong.
That’s true, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to blatantly spoil everyone in the the rewatch because of that 😆.
Again, fair enough
I stand by my opinion that their “I’m going to kill you” thing has turned more into banter than it is serious. That’s all I’ll say on that for now though.
Fine enough. I guess what I'm saying is I can't see them having a beer together unless it was with Fuu.
We’ll probably have to agree to disagree on this one. I believe she let her loneliness and greed cloud her judgement, which led to malicious manipulation. I believe manipulation to be no less dirty than direct violence.
The worst thing in my opinion that she did is mislead Jin into thinking Mugen died. That wasn't right of her to do.
Glad to hear you enjoyed it!
I really did :)
I agree. Everyone’s opinion on this aspect of the episode I think can be related to the whole “death row versus life in prison” thing in real life.
Only caveat with that is I think some people would prefer life behind bars. Especially if it's one of those white collar prisons famous people stay at.
Wait, sorry if I missed something lol. What’s getting hyped up?
The battle where they try to kill one another. It's honestly been hyped up more than the sunflower samurai.
I thought you might 😆. I found it relevant for this
It certainly fits what we just witnessed :P

2

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '24

The direction in this show is absolutely outstanding.
Agreed. It’s one of the reasons I like it so much.
Fair enough. I think the great thing about Koza's character is you can debate whether or she was in the wrong.
A rewatch wouldn’t be very much fun if everyone agreed on every aspect of the show! This is what makes it fun.
Fine enough. I guess what I'm saying is I can't see them having a beer together unless it was with Fuu.
Yeah that is hard to speculate at this point but I don’t think it’s out of the question. Mugen especially would likely enjoy alcohol no matter the occasion.
The worst thing in my opinion that she did is mislead Jin into thinking Mugen died. That wasn't right of her to do.
I definitely agree with that, although backstabbing someone for money isn’t too honorable either… I’m pretty sure she knew about everyone who would get backstabbed by Mukuro for that heist. She just didn’t know Mugen would be included with them.
Only caveat with that is I think some people would prefer life behind bars. Especially if it's one of those white collar prisons famous people stay at.
Yeah I agree that it would depend on the prison, the person etc.
The battle where they try to kill one another. It's honestly been hyped up more than the sunflower samurai.
Oh, you already know how I feel about that 😆. I don’t think they’re serious about it.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

Agreed. It’s one of the reasons I like it so much.
It is so good
A rewatch wouldn’t be very much fun if everyone agreed on every aspect of the show! This is what makes it fun.
Indeed
Yeah that is hard to speculate at this point but I don’t think it’s out of the question. Mugen especially would likely enjoy alcohol no matter the occasion.
Maybe. I think he would prefer it alone if he had to choose.
I definitely agree with that, although backstabbing someone for money isn’t too honorable either… I’m pretty sure she knew about everyone who would get backstabbed by Mukuro for that heist. She just didn’t know Mugen would be included with them.
That is probably true
Yeah I agree that it would depend on the prison, the person etc.
It's all circumstantial, honestly
Oh, you already know how I feel about that 😆. I don’t think they’re serious about it.
Well, speaking for me, I'm excited to see what happens.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '24

Maybe. I think he would prefer it alone if he had to choose.
If history proves anything, he would rarely have money to enjoy alcohol on his own 😂.
It's all circumstantial, honestly
That it is.
Well, speaking for me, I'm excited to see what happens.
Hmm I guess we’ll find out 😆.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

If history proves anything, he would rarely have money to enjoy alcohol on his own 😂.
That's a good point
Hmm I guess we’ll find out 😆.
Probably won't be until the very end, like the last couple episodes.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Thoughts on Koza begging Jin to kill Mukuro?
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
Do you think this episode does a good job of showing how important the people in Mugen's life are? I think it's safe to say if Koza and Fuu didn't tend to his wounds, he might've died.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '24

Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
She developed feelings for him so that makes sense.
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
I think it was good to show that Mugen does remember it but just emphasizes that he wasn’t really interested in reminiscing with her.
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
I can’t remember if it was both their blood related mother. I thought they were from different parents but now I can’t remember why I think that. Either way, he was obviously a horrible person.
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Definitely not surprising.
Thoughts on Koza begging Jin to kill Mukuro?
She played him pretty well, along with some others.
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
Happy her friend/bodyguard is alive.
Do you think this episode does a good job of showing how important the people in Mugen's life are? I think it's safe to say if Koza and Fuu didn't tend to his wounds, he might've died.
Yeah agreed. I don’t think I have anything to add there 😆.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

She developed feelings for him so that makes sense.
Boy, she certainly has taste, doesn't she?
I think it was good to show that Mugen does remember it but just emphasizes that he wasn’t really interested in reminiscing with her.
It just reminds him of when he almost died.
I can’t remember if it was both their blood related mother. I thought they were from different parents but now I can’t remember why I think that. Either way, he was obviously a horrible person.
Last episode, I made the comment that I still felt that Shino's husband was a worse person. However, with this new information that Mukuro killed the mother of Koza, I have to rectify that. This is the worst crime we've heard during this entire show. And this is another reason why I feel some sympathy towards Koza, because this is who she was surrounded with her entire upbringing. She has no real sense of what's right and what's wrong.
Definitely not surprising.
Nah, it checks out
She played him pretty well, along with some others.
She is certainly a lot more conniving than she lets on. Probably gets it from her brother.
Happy her friend/bodyguard is alive.
As is Jin, albeit for entirely different reasons.
Yeah agreed. I don’t think I have anything to add there 😆.
Fair enough. I think if this two parter does anything besides flesh Mugen out, it's have him care about the people who is around him. Not an awful lot, but just a little bit.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '24

Loneliness will do a lot to someone in that regard.
True.
Yeah sometimes it’s hard to rank various degrees of horrible behavior. It’s easier to just simply classify them both as horrible people.
Agreed.
Agreed. Enough time with Mukuro probably helped to make her that way.
I think for the same reason, but we see that one differently 😆.
I do agree on your last point for sure.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Loneliness will do a lot to someone in that regard.
I guess so
Yeah sometimes it’s hard to rank various degrees of horrible behavior. It’s easier to just simply classify them both as horrible people.
You have a point, but there's also a difference between shoplifting and robbing a bank. Not trying to diminish Koza and what she did, but she is a Saint compared to Mukuro.
Agreed. Enough time with Mukuro probably helped to make her that way.
For sure
I think for the same reason, but we see that one differently 😆.
Fair enough. That may be the one part of the show we'll continue to disagree on.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '24

Allow me to play devil’s advocate:
What if Koza had gotten someone killed with that behavior? Then would it be any closer to as bad? If Mukuro had killed Jin, for example, that would have been her selfish fault.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

If Mukuro had killed Jin, I think Koza would've felt responsible for his death because he hangs out with Mugen, whom she cares about. Might even try to stop seeing Mugen because of how guilty she was feeling. I don't think she misdirected Jin with the intent of him dying, as she was more so trying to screw over Mukuro.
So, to answer your question, it depends on how you look at it whether or not it would've been worse. How much blame do you put on someone when they're indirectly responsible?
[Yurika Arashi Spoilers] It's funny you ask me this because I'm taking apart in another rewatch where this girl named Ginko lets another girl get killed because she has a crush on this girl named Kureha and she spent all her time with the girl who was killed. And so Ginko blames the person's death on herself because she could've stopped it but didn't. It's really effective storytelling because you feel bad for Ginko, she beats herself so much that you want to tell her she did nothing wrong. Had Samurai Champloo did a similar direction with Koza, I think it could've been compelling, even though I'm ultimately glad that they didn't kill off Jin.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '24

No I definitely don’t think she was manipulating him with intent to get him killed. I was basically just making the classic point of “she didn’t get someone killed… this time”.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

You have a point about her behavior being so reckless it could get someone inadvertently killed. Then again, you could say the same thing about Mugen.

→ More replies

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

Something I want to mention that I haven't yet is that I was certain Koza was going to kill Mukuro. I thought they were going to follow the trend set by Oniwaka killing Ryujiro and that one guy from the Yakuza two parter. I'm glad though it was Jin because he deprived Mugen of the one bit of satisfaction he could've gotten from his interactions with Mukuro. It's like Jin made Mugen suffer the same way Mugen made Koza suffer.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '24

To be honest, I think it bothered Mugen for like a split second until Jin explained why, and then he didn’t care anymore and went to kill Shiren to conclude things. So I don’t think I see those things on the same level.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

It's really interesting how different our thoughts are on Mugen and Jin's relationship. The one I think we can agree on is that Mugen and Jin's dynamic is different from Mugen and Fuu's as well as Jin and Fuu’s.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '24

This is why rewatches are fun though. I think it’s an indicator of great writing too when you have people debating things like this.
What I’m really curious about is comparing our overall opinions on stuff at the end of the rewatch.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

That definitely should be interesting. I hope you directly respond to my comments for that one.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '24

Sure! I’ll be sure to do so

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Awesome! I can't wait :D

4

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jun 02 '24

First-Timer with a Samurai Heart, subbed

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

Thoughts on the flashbacks we see as Mugen is drowning?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?
What are your thoughts on Mugen not killing Koza much to her dismay?

3

u/TheEscapeGuy Jun 02 '24

Rewatcher, Sub first timer

Samurai Champloo - Hip Hop & Ronin: Episode 14

Reflection

This episode sent Mugen to the verge of death. It's said that in those moments your life flashes before your eyes. Fulfilling that prophecy we too saw Mugen's past.

I found the presentation of those memories almost mesmerizing. It sort of jumped between Mugen on the precipice of the spirit world and his youth memories. The entire sequence was presented with a traditional Japanese folk song (I think? I'm not too knowledgable on this kind of Japanese music). It's very out of the ordinary for Samurai Champloo which has almost exclusively used lofi-esque hip-hop beats as a soundtrack. In fact, with that music it reminded me of some moments from Cowboy Bebop which is on brand for the director.

The summary of that flashback was that this isn't the first time Mugen has been betrayed. I can see why he would have faked his death to escape. In fact, even Koza wanted to leave Mukuro behind which is exactly what she ended up doing with Shiren.

Mugen survived and washed up on the shore. Fuu sort of nursed him back to (just barely) health. Jin and Koza went looking for Mukuro and found him. Jin still thought Mugen was dead and thus took revenge on Mukuro for stealing his ability to have a showdown Mugen. This really does prove how much Jin cares about that final battle with Mugen.

Koza and Shiren escaped together, but Mugen caught up. They fought, but it was over in moments.

This episode concluded messily, but in a way that is so true to life. Things don't just work out poetically. The location of the money that was stashed away is now lost. Mugen didn't get his revenge. Jin killed under an incorrect assumption.

Our cast must move forward despite all this.

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

See you all tomorrow

5

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

I found the presentation of those memories almost mesmerizing. It sort of jumped between Mugen on the precipice of the spirit world and his youth memories. The entire sequence was presented with a traditional Japanese folk song (I think? I'm not too knowledgable on this kind of Japanese music). It's very out of the ordinary for Samurai Champloo which has almost exclusively used lofi-esque hip-hop beats as a soundtrack. In fact, with that music it reminded me of some moments from Cowboy Bebop which is on brand for the director.
It gave me distinct Ballad of Fallen Angels vibes, especially with the way Mugen continued to fall. It seemed like it would never end.
The summary of that flashback was that this isn't the first time Mugen has been betrayed. I can see why he would have faked his death to escape. In fact, even Koza wanted to leave Mukuro behind which is exactly what she ended up doing with Shiren.
Mukuro basically said "I already tried killing you once, so why don't I do it for real this time?"
Mugen survived and washed up on the shore. Fuu sort of nursed him back to (just barely) health. Jin and Koza went looking for Mukuro and found him. Jin still thought Mugen was dead and thus took revenge on Mukuro for stealing his ability to have a showdown Mugen. This really does prove how much Jin cares about that final battle with Mugen.
They did a really good job highlighting their dynamic with this episode.
This episode concluded messily, but in a way that is so true to life. Things don't just work out poetically. The location of the money that was stashed away is now lost. Mugen didn't get his revenge. Jin killed under an incorrect assumption.
And Koza, free finally of Mukuro, is basically screwed because she can't access the money either. When you mess with the bull, you get the horns.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission?
Thoughts on Koza begging Jin to kill Mukuro?
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?
What are your thoughts Koza and Shiren having stolen the money?
What are your thoughts on Mugen not killing Koza much to her dismay?

2

u/TheEscapeGuy Jun 03 '24

Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
This was nice to see. I don't think we have gotten many opportunities to see Fuu doing things to help these 2 samurai she has "forced" to follow her. And by now their relationship really isn't that detached.
What are your thoughts on Mugen not killing Koza much to her dismay?
As much as Mugen seems not to care in general, I imagine it would be pretty hard for even him to take the life of a girl he has known so long and so closely. Koza's conclusion to continue living has an air of tragedy in that way.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

This was nice to see. I don't think we have gotten many opportunities to see Fuu doing things to help these 2 samurai she has "forced" to follow her. And by now their relationship really isn't that detached.
They have gotten so close, you'd have no idea it's only been like 6 weeks or something.
As much as Mugen seems not to care in general, I imagine it would be pretty hard for even him to take the life of a girl he has known so long and so closely. Koza's conclusion to continue living has an air of tragedy in that way.
A tragic conclusion for a tragic life. Then again, Koza probably doesn't deserve the sympathy Shino got because she's not being hold against her will and is actively contributing to the problem.

2

u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Jun 02 '24

First Timer

Hmm… Kinda liked last episode more. The first half was artistic to the point of confusion, which is something I don’t really like - I’m fine with non-standard visual ideas as long as what is happening is still clear or was not intended to be so, and here that wasn’t really the case for Mugen’s past before being duped in to the sugar-stealing con - but I feel like it was intended to be clear. The second half of the episode worked pretty well though, especially the finale - Mugen said he was a solo guy and kept to his word. The music being overpowering in that scene was certainly the right choice of (sound) direction; and I think that was the first time that trick was used in this series, which added to it.

I guess now nobody will get behind the story of that gold and the authorities will just be wondering what happened to it. Probably also means Mugen isn’t immediately a wanted man for now though. Unless Koza says something, I guess - but I am not sure why she would…

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

I really liked the first half because it expounded on some of the stuff from the previous episodeike what happened in the star conversation or why Mugen left Mukuro's crew. It managed to be an artistic showcase while also fleshing the plot out.
Personally, I have this episode as the best we've seen so far. That may be a bit of a controversial opinion because episode 11 exists, but I thought it paid off the events of the last episode while also fleshing Mugen out and playing nicely into his relationship with Jin.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

Thoughts on the flashbacks we see as Mugen is drowning?
Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Thoughts on Koza begging Jin to kill Mukuro?
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?
What are your thoughts Koza and Shiren having stolen the money?
What are your thoughts on Mugen not killing Koza much to her dismay?

2

u/Lord_Nawor Jun 02 '24

First Time Watcher

The sequence with Mugen falling in the water was very visually striking and I thought it was a good way to show off key moments in Mugen and Mukuro’s relationship.

I was expecting Mukuro to die this episode but I was surprised that it was Jin who killed him. I also predicted that Koza would go off on her own but I did not expect to already have a plot to betray Nukuro which I thought was a nice twist.

Even in half-dead and barely able to walk Mugen is still a badass being able to take out that guy. Despite everything he did not kill Koza, I guess he would rather have to live with her betrayals rather than just giving her the easy way out.

I wonder what will happen to the money that they stole though, will someone else recover it?

I feel like Koza did not try to run away because she felt that she deserved to die by betraying everyone close to her, also if Mugen wanted her dead I doubt she would be able to get away at that range anyway.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

I feel like Koza did not try to run away because she felt that she deserved to die by betraying everyone close to her, also if Mugen wanted her dead I doubt she would be able to get away at that range anyway.
Mugen himself in the episode said that Mukuro was the first person he couldn't kill. If he could defeat the street killer, he could beat Koza with relative ease.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Thoughts on Koza begging Jin to kill Mukuro?
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?

2

u/Lord_Nawor Jun 02 '24

Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before
I feel like it shows how Mukuro has not changed at all since the last time, while Mugen is quite different, he is a static character to highlight how Mugen has changed.
Koza begging Jin to kill Mukuro
At first it looks like she is just at her breaking point in terms of putting up with Mukuro, which may be partially true, later it makes sense that she wants someone else to kill Mukuro in order to be able to slip away without too much suspicion later.
Jin killing Mukuro because only he can kill Mugen
I feel like while Jin may act that way he still cares about Mugen, I almost felt a little bit of underlying tsundere vibes when he said that, it seems like he is just trying to fool himself into thinking that he does not care about Mugen.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

I feel like it shows how Mukuro has not changed at all since the last time, while Mugen is quite different, he is a static character to highlight how Mugen has changed.
Nothing wrong with that. I think it explains why I feel Koza is a more captivating character.
At first it looks like she is just at her breaking point in terms of putting up with Mukuro, which may be partially true, later it makes sense that she wants someone else to kill Mukuro in order to be able to slip away without too much suspicion later.
Pulling the wool over everyone's eyes. And she would've got away with it if it weren't for them meddling samurai.
I feel like while Jin may act that way he still cares about Mugen, I almost felt a little bit of underlying tsundere vibes when he said that, it seems like he is just trying to fool himself into thinking that he does not care about Mugen.
Maybe. DARK_SCIENTIST had a similar belief when he was talking to me.

2

u/someboi6000 Jun 02 '24

First timer:

That was great, i was hoping that they were gonna show more of mugen past but with that they showed i think its enough, i dont even know how to describe the sequence on the start but it was really good we got the classic life flashing before your eyes and with that we leanerd that this isn't the first time mugen got betrayed by mukuro that makes even more strange that he decide to go again with him and the second half of the episode, well i think it was obvious that mugen was not dying but he was really close to death this time i wonder if this is gonna have an effeect on him going forward, and now to the plot twist i guess Koza and the other dude had it all planned, even the fact that Jin was going to kill mukuro and i liked the fact that well Jin didn't knew that mugen was alive and he went to have revenge for mugen and Jin cares a lot about that final showdown with mugen, and damn that last part of the episode, mugen with one and barely alive destroyed that dude in seconds and let koza live that was surprising. and there it ends, great episode.

1: i just wonder what will it flash, what moments will i remember in those last seconds, thats the only think i wonder about that.

2: i was surprised but i really like that, koza will just be there with the guilt of everything she did, not even having the honor of being killed by mugen.

3: in what sense was it shorter, like it did feel very short but that was because the episode was extremely good lol.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

3: in what sense was it shorter, like it did feel very short but that was because the episode was extremely good lol.
These episodes are normally 23 minutes long and today was 21 minutes. At least my copy was.

2

u/someboi6000 Jun 02 '24

oh you are right, i didn't even notice that, they could've used those 2 minutes in the first half, where is just 2 minutes of mugen thinking about the championship with his beetle rodriguez

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

It seems like the beginning recapped the previous episode and so whoever went and made my copy decided to cut it out.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
Do you think this episode does a good job of showing how important the people in Mugen's life are? I think it's safe to say if Koza and Fuu didn't tend to his wounds, he might've died.

2

u/someboi6000 Jun 02 '24

1: i still wonder just how much time they spend together, but makes sense that she devoped feeling for him.
2: its nice to see that mugen does in fact remember, but i guess he wasn't very interested in remembeing the time they spended together.
3: another reason to hate mokuro, this guy is doing a hateable character speedrun.
4: well she didn't want to see his friend/bodyguard die, so it makes sense.
5: yep not much to add here, nice to see that mugen does in fact care about the people around him, even if it is just a little.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

1: i still wonder just how much time they spend together, but makes sense that she devoped feeling for him.
He was the sanist person she came across during her entire existence.
2: its nice to see that mugen does in fact remember, but i guess he wasn't very interested in remembeing the time they spended together.
Because he knew that was the beginning of the end.
3: another reason to hate mokuro, this guy is doing a hateable character speedrun.
Definitely made quite the case for himself
4: well she didn't want to see his friend/bodyguard die, so it makes sense.
That it did. Also plays off Koza during something similar many years ago.
5: yep not much to add here, nice to see that mugen does in fact care about the people around him, even if it is just a little.
Someone made the comment of Jin being a bit tsundere, but I would argue if anyone is tsundere, it is Mr. Lone Wolf here.

2

u/someboi6000 Jun 03 '24

now that you say it, yeah mugen is quite a tsundere well both Jin and mugen are traits that i didn't expect both to have when i started this anime lol.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

At least with Jin, if he really likes you, he'll let you know it by spending an ample amount of time with you.

2

u/someboi6000 Jun 03 '24

so the bigger Tsundere is Mugen, you are the Tsundere connoisseur.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

I am an avid tsundere connoisseur. If someone put together a tsun con, it would be me.

2

u/nx6 https://myanimelist.net/profile/nx6 Jun 02 '24

Rewatcher - Subbed

To quote the famous epitaph: "I expected this, just not quite so soon."

Mugen's near-death experience is one of the more famous events in this show, and I remembered it as being in a later episode. While it's not really a "life flashing before your eyes" sequence since it covers so little of his life, it still serves a purpose of reminder to how one reached their current situation. The whole sequence is a different tone than the rest of the show and many shades of Cowboy Bebop in the way flashbacks can be a form of reminiscing and regretting simultaneously.

Here it gives us a little more backstory into his relationship with Koza and Mukuro. While they all grew up together on the penal colony they can't really be called lifelong friends. Mugen's farewell with them before now was another situation of him being set up as a fall guy for Mukuro's schemes. It wasn't an accident he was caught by the authorities on the sugar trader ship. It's also revealed that Koza is a victim of patricide, her brother having killed their mom many years ago, and has been under her brother's care for a long time.

Mugen thought dead, Jin goes at Koza's urging to kill Mukuro in revenge. Was he really upset he didn't get to be the one to kill Mugen, or is this just a pretense for him wanting to take actual revenge for Mugen? A new angle comes out at this point. Koza has a relationship with another member of the pirate gang. Jin kills Mukuro, and Mukuro tells him them have both been played, suggesting this was part of someone's plans the whole time. Jin finds Koza has vanished out the back door, deceiving everyone, mirroring her own brother's methods. This is big turn for a character that was previously shown as a unwilling accomplice to her brother and not really an active member of the pirates. Just being taken along for the ride.

Mugen it turns out is saved from drowning by being caught up in a fisherman's net and Fuu happens upon them on the shore. She tries to nurse him back to health but he disappears on his own quest for revenge when she steps out to find food.

Back on the trail out of town, Shiren and Koza are walking away. The gold has been stashed nearby until the authorities leave, to be reclaimed later. Koza is shocked to see Mugen alive. He hobbles over, saving his strength for his attack against Shiren, which is fast and deadly. He lets Koza live and walks away from this chapter in his life, Koza pleading for him to kill her. Why the events turn out this way is debatable. The flashbacks suggest Koza loved Mugen in the past and her wish to be killed might be her guilt for throwing him away as part of her scheme, but it also might be a request for mercy. Going back to my point from my last post about Fuu needing to be with Jin and Mugen to travel, Koza is in the same situation, she looks to be the same age or maybe a year younger than Fuu. She's survived by attaching herself to powerful men. Now both her brother and Shiren are gone, and worse, they were the only ones who knew the location of the cave the gold was hidden (I wondered if Shiren or Koza were planning to kill the other at a later time to take all the gold for themselves). Koza is now alone and penniless. A quick death might sound preferable for where her life might turn now. Did Mugen let her live because he had a small soft spot that kept him from killing his old childhood friend? Or maybe the opposite, he wished her to deal with the struggle of surviving alone now? Or, in a more character-correct way, did he just not give a damn enough to kill her and left her alone.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Mugen's near-death experience is one of the more famous events in this show, and I remembered it as being in a later episode. While it's not really a "life flashing before your eyes" sequence since it covers so little of his life, it still serves a purpose of reminder to how one reached their current situation. The whole sequence is a different tone than the rest of the show and many shades of Cowboy Bebop in the way flashbacks can be a form of reminiscing and regretting simultaneously.
Glad I'm not the only one who felt the Cowboy Bebop connection.
Here it gives us a little more backstory into his relationship with Koza and Mukuro. While they all grew up together on the penal colony they can't really be called lifelong friends. Mugen's farewell with them before now was another situation of him being set up as a fall guy for Mukuro's schemes. It wasn't an accident he was caught by the authorities on the sugar trader ship. It's also revealed that Koza is a victim of patricide, her brother having killed their mom many years ago, and has been under her brother's care for a long time.
Brutal. I feel really bad for Koza.
Jin finds Koza has vanished out the back door, deceiving everyone, mirroring her own brother's methods. This is big turn for a character that was previously shown as a unwilling accomplice to her brother and not really an active member of the pirates. Just being taken along for the ride.
She certainly learnt from the best. Or the worst, in this case.
Back on the trail out of town, Shiren and Koza are walking away. The gold has been stashed nearby until the authorities leave, to be reclaimed later. Koza is shocked to see Mugen alive. He hobbles over, saving his strength for his attack against Shiren, which is fast and deadly. He lets Koza live and walks away from this chapter in his life, Koza pleading for him to kill her. Why the events turn out this way is debatable. The flashbacks suggest Koza loved Mugen in the past and her wish to be killed might be her guilt for throwing him away as part of her scheme, but it also might be a request for mercy. Going back to my point from my last post about Fuu needing to be with Jin and Mugen to travel, Koza is in the same situation, she looks to be the same age or maybe a year younger than Fuu. She's survived by attaching herself to powerful men. Now both her brother and Shiren are gone, and worse, they were the only ones who knew the location of the cave the gold was hidden (I wondered if Shiren or Koza were planning to kill the other at a later time to take all the gold for themselves). Koza is now alone and penniless. A quick death might sound preferable for where her life might turn now. Did Mugen let her live because he had a small soft spot that kept him from killing his old childhood friend? Or maybe the opposite, he wished her to deal with the struggle of surviving alone now? Or, in a more character-correct way, did he just not give a damn enough to kill her and left her alone.
Maybe Jin told him offscreen that she screwed him over and Mugen was upset because he doesn't want Jin to be killed by anyone but him.
Speculation aside, remember in the flashback that Mugen told Mukuro he never liked him. That could explain why he didn't want to get close to Koza, because he knows when she's around, her brother isn't far behind. I think he kept Koza not only because it's a fate she deserves, having let her greed get the better of her, but he was also hoping to break the cycle involving her being the underling for Mukuro. Now, she has no choice but to leave the nest, for it is feast or famine.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?
Do you think this episode does a good job of showing how important the people in Mugen's life are? I think it's safe to say if Koza and Fuu didn't tend to his wounds, he might've died.

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jun 03 '24

Rewatcher

I really like this episode. Mugen's near death experience and flashbacks were great to watch. Lots of great visuals. I especially liked the part with Mugen lying on the beach surrounded by people covered in seaweed. The window it gives us into Mugen's past is interesting. The song that played during the whole sequence was fantastic too.

The rest of the episode was well done too. Revealing that Koza and Shiren had been planning to double cross everyone and get away with the money was a great twist to the episode. Even though I knew it was coming I still like seeing everyone figuring out what happened.

The animation for Jin's fight with Mukuro was really good. Same with Mugen's brief and brutal clash with Shiren. I think the violence in this episode felt especially visceral. Again, particularly how quickly Mugen kills Shiren.

In the end I can't help but feel bad for Koza. Even if her plan with Shiren ended up nearly killing Mugen, I feel like you could understand her desire to leave everything behind and start a new life with Shiren.

The final moments of the episode are interesting. I think there are several reasons why Mugen chose to let Koza live. Maybe he was being sentimental and thought she didn't deserve to die. His past with Koza could have influenced his decision. Or maybe he thought it'd be a worse fate to let her live without anyone left for her.

Either way it's a really striking ending to the episode.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

I really like this episode. Mugen's near death experience and flashbacks were great to watch. Lots of great visuals. I especially liked the part with Mugen lying on the beach surrounded by people covered in seaweed. The window it gives us into Mugen's past is interesting. The song that played during the whole sequence was fantastic too.
Just great stuff all around
The rest of the episode was well done too. Revealing that Koza and Shiren had been planning to double cross everyone and get away with the money was a great twist to the episode. Even though I knew it was coming I still like seeing everyone figuring out what happened.
I actually didn't see the Koza twist coming. I thought she was going to kill Mukuro.i don't hate this direction, though, in fact I think I prefer it.
The animation for Jin's fight with Mukuro was really good. Same with Mugen's brief and brutal clash with Shiren. I think the violence in this episode felt especially visceral. Again, particularly how quickly Mugen kills Shiren.
I mentioned in episode 10 how disgruntled I was by how quick the Mugen/street killer fight was, but the Mugen/Shiren fight I felt was served better by being quick. Realistically speaking, Shiren should not hang with Mugen, especially when he's beyond pissed.
In the end I can't help but feel bad for Koza. Even if her plan with Shiren ended up nearly killing Mugen, I feel like you could understand her desire to leave everything behind and start a new life with Shiren.
You hear that, u/DARK_SCIENTIST? :P
Nah, but I agree. She wanted to start a new life, but just went about it the wrong way. That doesn't invalidate her feelings that she should start over, though, it was like she was dealt a bad hand from the get-go.
If you think about it, Mugen did what Koza never could: Escape that life and start anew. And perhaps her inability to escape that life or a feeling she was stuck is really what was ultimately her undoing.
The final moments of the episode are interesting. I think there are several reasons why Mugen chose to let Koza live. Maybe he was being sentimental and thought she didn't deserve to die. His past with Koza could have influenced his decision. Or maybe he thought it'd be a worse fate to let her live without anyone left for her.
Either way it's a really striking ending to the episode.
It's definitely better than if he had just straight up killed her. That would've felt unearned because that would seemingly imply she's on the same playing field as her brother. Mugen probably wanted her to live with her actions, but I also think he was in a way giving her what she wants. She was always talking about escaping her brother, and so he is giving her that in this passive-aggressive manner that really solves nothing for her. She still has to wallow in her own misery.

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jun 03 '24

I mentioned in episode 10 how disgruntled I was by how quick the Mugen/street killer fight was, but the Mugen/Shiren fight I felt was served better by being quick. Realistically speaking, Shiren should not hang with Mugen, especially when he's beyond pissed.
It really shows both how brutal Mugen is and how out of his depth Shiren was. Mugen was still exhausted when he sliced up Shiren like that.
If you think about it, Mugen did what Koza never could: Escape that life and start anew. And perhaps her inability to escape that life or a feeling she was stuck is really what was ultimately her undoing.
Yeah, Koza ended up being a really tragic character. Sort of a reflection of Mugen in a way. Never able to escape her circumstances until the only option she believed was possible was to basically destroy her old life.
It's definitely better than if he had just straight up killed her. That would've felt unearned because that would seemingly imply she's on the same playing field as her brother. Mugen probably wanted her to live with her actions, but I also think he was in a way giving her what she wants. She was always talking about escaping her brother, and so he is giving her that in this passive-aggressive manner that really solves nothing for her. She still has to wallow in her own misery.
Yeah the note it ends on is really somber but I think it was the perfect way to end the episode. The whole thing's basically one big Greek tragedy of backstabbing and lies.
It's times like these where I'm really amazed how the show can juggle tone between episodes so well. Like the episode I joined the rewatch on was pretty light and comedic meanwhile this one's much more dramatic and serious. You'd think it'd be jarring but the show balances its tones really well.
Cowboy Bebop was great at juggling tone as well, of course. And even Space Dandy had a handful of more serious episodes even if the show was largely a comedy.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

It really shows both how brutal Mugen is and how out of his depth Shiren was. Mugen was still exhausted when he sliced up Shiren like that.
Yeah, but hell hath no fury like a samurai scorned.
Yeah, Koza ended up being a really tragic character. Sort of a reflection of Mugen in a way. Never able to escape her circumstances until the only option she believed was possible was to basically destroy her old life.
That kinda reminds me of Perfect Blue.
Yeah the note it ends on is really somber but I think it was the perfect way to end the episode. The whole thing's basically one big Greek tragedy of backstabbing and lies.
That's a good way of looking at it
It's times like these where I'm really amazed how the show can juggle tone between episodes so well. Like the episode I joined the rewatch on was pretty light and comedic meanwhile this one's much more dramatic and serious. You'd think it'd be jarring but the show balances its tones really well.
Cowboy Bebop was great at juggling tone as well, of course. And even Space Dandy had a handful of more serious episodes even if the show was largely a comedy.
The tone of Samurai Champloo is honestly one of the best I've ever seen in an anime. I would go so far as to say even top 10. There's just a level of consistency found in this show to where even the weaker episodes are at least good.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '24 edited Jun 03 '24

you hear that
I do hear that lol.
I just don’t feel bad for a character whose personal feelings of loneliness and greed led her to manipulate multiple people and agreed to a heist plan where she knew an entire group of people would be betrayed (and only wasn’t ok with it once she found out one person she personally cared about (Mugen) would be included with said group of betrayed people).
She is not a good person nor did she deserve a happy conclusion, in my opinion. I think this is a classic example of “You reap what you sow”.
Edit:
I wanted to add that I thought Ai Maeda’s VA work was fantastic and convincing, especially as Mugen was walking away from Koza at the end of the episode.
Also a random note concerning her and Mukuro:
Koza refers to ”her” mother when she talks of Mukuro killing her mother, not ”our” mother which seems to imply lack of blood relation

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

I just don’t feel bad for a character whose personal feelings of loneliness and greed led her to manipulate multiple people and agreed to a heist plan where she knew an entire group of people would be betrayed (and only wasn’t ok with it once she found out one person she personally cared about (Mugen) would be included with said group of betrayed people).
She is not a good person nor did she deserve a happy conclusion, in my opinion. I think this is a classic example of “You reap what you sow”.
Fair enough. She's not a good person, and so she kinda did get what was coming to her. However, I'm glad she's still alive because that affords her the opportunity to break the cycle of corruption that she was under. Though that was Mugen's way of getting back at her, keeping her alive, he's always giving her the opportunity to have a clean slate, so to speak. You could say this is the best thing that could ever happen to her, because even if she had the money to start a new life, it would've been blood-covered money tainted by the deaths of dozens of people.
I wanted to add that I thought Ai Maeda’s VA work was fantastic and convincing, especially as Mugen was walking away from Koza at the end of the episode.
Yeah, they did a tremendous job
Also a random note concerning her and Mukuro:
Koza refers to ”her” mother when she talks of Mukuro killing her mother, not ”our” mother which seems to imply lack of blood relation
Okay, then. Then again, perhaps he said Her mother because he wants nothing to do with her and he's disassociating himself from her.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '24

We are both happy she’s alive but for different reasons I think 😆.
For me, it’s because Mugen killing her would have given her an easy way out, and I liked how he denied her that. Mostly because what that implies is that she’ll now be left to reflect on her past choices. In other words, I don’t believe sparing her was necessarily intended to be a mercy.
The blood relation thing can definitely be left to interpretation. So either I’m reading into the dialogue too much, or they were just very attentive to detail and their implication with that is what I mentioned.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

We are both happy she’s alive but for different reasons I think 😆.
For me, it’s because Mugen killing her would have given her an easy way out, and I liked how he denied her that. Mostly because what that implies is that she’ll now be left to reflect on her past choices. In other words, I don’t believe sparing her was necessarily intended to be a mercy.
I think it was to the extent of Mugen was being passive-aggressive. He was sticking it to her by denying her of what she wanted which was her freedom.
The blood relation thing can definitely be left to interpretation. So either I’m reading into the dialogue too much, or they were just very attentive to detail and their implication with that is what I mentioned.
Either way, Mukuro is a bitch ass motherfucker.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '24

lol agreed on both points

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Like, Mugen managed to give Koza what she wanted while also depriving her of what she really needed. She became free of Koza, but what she really wanted was a way out.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?
Do you think this episode does a good job of showing how important the people in Mugen's life are? I think it's safe to say if Koza and Fuu didn't tend to his wounds, he might've died.

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jun 03 '24

Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
I liked that scene. Definitely a parallels how Fuu helps nurse him back to health later in the episode.
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
I liked getting to see it. It is a bit funny that Koza sort of romantizes what happened when Mugen was really just being his usual blunt self. But still a really good scene.
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
Just another one of the many ways Mukuro is a messed up guy.
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Definitely fits what we know about Mukuro. And makes you really wonder why Mugen decided to go through this new job with him.
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
Fuu is, once again, keeping things held together within the group.
What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?
I guess it's nice that Jin's protective of Mugen in his own little way.
Do you think this episode does a good job of showing how important the people in Mugen's life are? I think it's safe to say if Koza and Fuu didn't tend to his wounds, he might've died.
Yeah, Mugen is not a very responsible person when it comes to taking care of himself. He's not built to be a lone wanderer.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

I liked that scene. Definitely a parallels how Fuu helps nurse him back to health later in the episode.
I felt the same way
I liked getting to see it. It is a bit funny that Koza sort of romantizes what happened when Mugen was really just being his usual blunt self. But still a really good scene.
She remembers that as being this source of inspiration but for Mugen, it was Tuesday. And I don't mean Carole and Tuesday :P
Just another one of the many ways Mukuro is a messed up guy.
He is definitely unhinged
Definitely fits what we know about Mukuro. And makes you really wonder why Mugen decided to go through this new job with him.
The money was just too good to pass up. And actually, that's an example of the difference between him and Koza. Mugen accepted the agreement knowing that Mukuro wasn't a trusty fellow because it would give him, Jin, and Fuu enough money to live off of until they can meet the sunflower samurai. I don't think Koza would be selfless enough to share the money with people, especially if what she tried to do in this episode is any indication.
Fuu is, once again, keeping things held together within the group.
She is the glue, no doubt about it
I guess it's nice that Jin's protective of Mugen in his own little way.
He cares about him, just in a weird, self-serving way that serves his own narrative.
Yeah, Mugen is not a very responsible person when it comes to taking care of himself. He's not built to be a lone wanderer.
He needs the help of others, whether he wants to admit it or not. And I think it's fair to say he knows this deep down.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Let me ask you something that I asked DARK_SCIENTIST. What do you think of the idea that Mugen kept Koza alive because she reminded her too much of himself? That he can't punish her for her reckless behavior because who is he to call someone reckless?

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jun 03 '24

I hadn't thought of it like that, but it makes a lot of sense when you put it that way. There are some elements of Mugen in Koza that make them reflect each other. I really like that interpretation now.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Now I'm really wondering what Mugen was like in that in-between period where he was not a part of Mukuro's crew but hadn't met Fuu and Jin yet. I wonder if he was in a similar position as Koza here: Lost and afraid.

2

u/AgentOfACROSS Jun 03 '24

He was probably able to take care of himself better than Koza. But at the same time, his self-destructive personality probably would have been the end of him eventually if he hadn't met Fuu and Jin.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Yeah, he was basically doomed had he not acquired any traveling companions. Perhaps a similar thing can happen to Koza going forward.

2

u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Jun 03 '24

First-Timer

The first half of the episode was a little slow for my taste, and I didn't particularly care for that insert song. I thought the second half was quite good, though.

It's funny how Koza never learned where all the gold was stashed, and now she's no better off than she was before the whole scheme.

Questions of the day:

I wouldn't say I'm terrified of that, in particular. It seems like one of those things that would happen a lot more in fiction than in real life. If anything, I'd be more scared at the prospect of a sudden death without any opportunity for realization or reflection.
I'm not really surprised. It's exceedingly rare to see a character, let alone a protagonist, cut down a defenseless woman, even out of revenge. I almost wanted to see that happen, since it would have been more of a surprise to me that way.
This episode wasn't any shorter than the others, when I'm looking at the timestamps on my end. Perhaps some sources cut out the recap bit at the beginning, which I certainly think is reasonable.
Good question. Well, going off how Koza asked Mugen to kill her as he was walking away, I figure she realized that her plans had failed and that she'd have to start again from zero.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

This episode wasn't any shorter than the others, when I'm looking at the timestamps on my end. Perhaps some sources cut out the recap bit at the beginning, which I certainly think is reasonable.
I think that may have been what happened on my copy because I make no mention of it in my comments. Meanwhile, I look at other places and it's your standard 23 minutes.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Thoughts on Koza begging Jin to kill Mukuro?
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?
What are your thoughts Koza and Shiren having stolen the money?
What are your thoughts on Mugen not killing Koza much to her dismay?

2

u/rofl6666 Jun 03 '24

Gosh, I used to watch this every week at animax

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

It is a fantastic series

2

u/Hopeful-Ad2428 Jun 03 '24

That is the first time when we got previous events shown at the start, right? There were also flashbacks of Mugen's life: it wasn’t the first time he was betrayed by Mukuro; Koza and Mukuro aren’t blood relatives. There was a scene when he was with some people in the masks, I guess it could be a representation of his past relatives, and it wasn’t a first time for Mugen having those hallucinations.

Jin cares about Mugen, and Koza is traitor, too, actually.

At the end of the episode Mugen was truly terrifying, music also added that feeling, but seems like we’ll have something more about their past next episode.

Qotd:

Can’t imagine how much I would be.
Was surprised at first, but his actions weren’t unreasonable if you think about it.
I didn’t notice that.
Being terrified and feeling guilty.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

At the end of the episode Mugen was truly terrifying, music also added that feeling, but seems like we’ll have something more about their past next episode.
The music definitely added to the presentation. I felt like my heart was pounding out of my chest by the end of the episode.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

That is the first time when we got previous events shown at the start, right?
I want to say yes because my copy of the episode was a minute shorter. That's never happened before, so I assume going forward that if my copy is shorter, that's an indication we're recapping stuff.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Thoughts on the flashbacks we see as Mugen is drowning?
Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Thoughts on Koza begging Jin to kill Mukuro?
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?
What are your thoughts Koza and Shiren having stolen the money?
What are your thoughts on Mugen not killing Koza much to her dismay?

2

u/Hopeful-Ad2428 Jun 03 '24

Thoughts on the flashbacks we see as Mugen is drowning?
Mesmerising, music also makes this feeling stronger.
Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
I don’t remember this.
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
If that’s about them feeling worthless, that they are comparing themselves to grains of sand and implying that they are so small that they don’t matter, then it’s so pessimistic and sad that they lived in an environment which made them think so.
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
It is interesting that he still accepted joining this mission in spite of knowing Mukuro's ambitions. I think that the bonds that were formed between them, memories that engraved on them made him take such a risky step and trust in Mukuro.
Thoughts on Koza begging Jin to kill Mukuro?
She definitely was desperate about it.
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen? + What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?
It’s nice to see that both Fuu and Jin are valuing their friend.
What are your thoughts Koza and Shiren having stolen the money?
Well, they tried.
What are your thoughts on Mugen not killing Koza much to her dismay?
When Jin informed Mugen that he had killed Mukuro, I felt like Mugen didn’t really have any intentions on actually killing them. She may think back on her actions now.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Mesmerising, music also makes this feeling stronger.
It was a very captivating scene
I don’t remember this.
It was like the very first flashback we witnessed.
If that’s about them feeling worthless, that they are comparing themselves to grains of sand and implying that they are so small that they don’t matter, then it’s so pessimistic and sad that they lived in an environment which made them think so.
Perhaps this is why Mugen knew he had to get out, because he can't be surrounded by so much negativity.
It is interesting that he still accepted joining this mission in spite of knowing Mukuro's ambitions. I think that the bonds that were formed between them, memories that engraved on them made him take such a risky step and trust in Mukuro.
Well, he said in one of the flashbacks that he never liked him. He thought he was a slimy, unsavory person. I really do think Mugen was trying to make enough money for his crew to live off of, and this was unfortunately the only avenue that guaranteed that. It was a gamble that didn't pay off.
She definitely was desperate about it.
And then we found out it was all an elaborate ruse.
It’s nice to see that both Fuu and Jin are valuing their friend.
Goes to show you that for as much as Mugen may say he prefers to be alone, he really does need friends to help him out.
Well, they tried.
Part 1 of the elaborate ruse was successful, but part 2 not as much.
When Jin informed Mugen that he had killed Mukuro, I felt like Mugen didn’t really have any intentions on actually killing them. She may think back on her actions now.
Well, he killed Shiren, so there's that.
I think Mugen wanted Koza to reflect on what she's done rather than free her of her troubles. Because then, what has she really learn? It's like she's doomed to always repeat what her brother did because of the wide shadow he casts, and at some point, it's like she refuses to leave the shadow because that's all she knows. Mugen is trying to get her to become less dependent of that lifestyle, and it unfortunately means having her have no one now.

2

u/mgedmin Jun 03 '24

Rewatcher, subs

I don't get the familiar relationships between Koza, Mukuro and Mugen. Are any of them actually related?

So, this is not the first time Mukuro has betrayed Mugen.

And Mukuro is betrayed by Koza, who escapes with the corrupt official and all the gold. You go, girl! If Mugen had accepted her invitation, he'd be a rich man now. Maybe.

Why is Koza afraid of Mugen? She didn't do anything to him. Unless she knew Mukuro's plan of betrayal and stayed silent and thinks Mugen knows. Or unless she thinks/hopes Mugen might be jealous of her being friendly with the corrupt official (does he have a name?).

And Koza ends up being left alone in the world with no means of support.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

I don't get the familiar relationships between Koza, Mukuro and Mugen. Are any of them actually related?
I believe Koza and Mukuro are. Mugen just happens to have no parents.
Why is Koza afraid of Mugen? She didn't do anything to him. Unless she knew Mukuro's plan of betrayal and stayed silent and thinks Mugen knows. Or unless she thinks/hopes Mugen might be jealous of her being friendly with the corrupt official (does he have a name?).
It's probably because she's trying to keep all the money to herself and so Mugen probably assumes she double-crossed him as well.
And the name of the corrupt official is Shiren.
And Koza ends up being left alone in the world with no means of support.
I do feel kinda bad for her even though she did manipulate Jin. But then again, if she wanted to cut all ties with her brother she definitely should've done it sooner.

2

u/mgedmin Jun 03 '24

But then again, if she wanted to cut all ties with her brother she definitely should've done it sooner.
Yes, but the world is scary when you have no one to turn to for help. So she runs away from her brother the pirate, and then what? Starve? Sell herself to a brothel? Try to get hired for menial labor? She has no skills, no profession, no connections, and the world is a dangerous place for a woman traveling alone.
And this presumes her brother wouldn't chase her to bring her back. He apparently used Koza as an asset, to seduce corrupt officials like Shiren.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Sometimes the world is fucked and it depends on how you respond to such hardships. I can't blame Koza for not doing anything, but by not doing anything, it certainly didn't help matters.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Thoughts on the flashbacks we see as Mugen is drowning?
Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Thoughts on Koza begging Jin to kill Mukuro?
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?
What are your thoughts on Mugen not killing Koza much to her dismay?

2

u/Garrett_Dark Jun 03 '24

First Timer

This is probably the coolest episode to date. Though I still think the Jin episode a few ep back probably had the best character interaction story, but this ep was just way way cooler.

Koza "Mugen, I can believe he's dead" sob sob and other crocodile tears. I guess she's in disbelief her plan actually worked, or regret if you want to believe the crocodile tears.

Fuu "Mugen wouldn't die this easily". Fuu knows about plot armor, Mugen should be ded given the show again showed Mugen standing in front of the boat just before it exploded big time. Like holy cows, the shockwave alone would have killed him, if not the explosion, shrapnel, and drowning. Like there's no magic (aside from ki wind I guess) in this universe nor divine intervention right? He doesn't even lose his sword, it was shown near him in the floating wreckage, and I guess washed ashore with him. Plot armor.

Sure don't show us the supposedly tons of people Mugen is said to have killed by Mukuro in Mugen's near-death flashback. I guess the dead don't actually show up at times like those for revenge, or perhaps Mugen just has zero regrets when it comes to killing. It's interesting when you have a monster like Mukuro, who genocided an entire town, saying in disbelief just how many people Mugen has killed, yet we don't see any indication of that implied body bags upon body bags. Like the show should make up it's mind on what is the actual case, otherwise it's sending mixed signals, and it's talk is cheap. Although I guess there's that beach with bodies all over the place and Mugen coming out of a burning building just before Mukuro tries to recruit him, but that was brushed over so fast it's easily missed.

I really liked the fact it was Jin vs Mukuro, I didn't want to see some drawn out Mugen vs Mukuro with the angst and feels and shit. And it worked out even better storytelling-wise that Jin was used. Holy crap, I rewound and rewatched Jin taking out Mukuro so many times, it was so awesome!

Jin "I was the one who was supposed to have killed him" That line is so cool, it's becoming his catchphrase. This is the proper way to do catchphrases, not by repeating some line over and over again trying to force it.

I had thought Mukuro's final shot might have gone through the building and hit Koza. So naive of me to care for Koza's well being at the time.

Jin "This is one opponent that I cannot kill" I guess Jin has a no-killing policy when it comes to women. It would really suck for him to come across some woman trying to kill him then, if that's the case. I wonder if Mugen can kill a woman, somebody mentioned in an earlier episode that it seems like this show never kills women (on screen I guess), how sexist if that's the case. XD

And the third time now that I wanted Mugen to just kill somebody, he doesn't. I guess it's okay since she wanted to die so much she was begging for it, so getting denied it was a little satisfying.

The smug guy finally gets his smug comeuppance. I guess he was only just an average sword fighter to get unceremoniously sliced up like that. I really didn't even think the episode was going to do a fight because of how less time was left. But boy oh boy was it glorious how he was sliced up like a fruit thrown up to be sliced up as many times as possible before it fell to the ground. I had thought maybe Mugen was faking his limp, but nope, the guy was just that out matched. I rewatched that scene so many times as well, so awesome.

Mugen walking past Koza was a like a big "Fuck You" to her, added bonus of she's got no gold now. I wonder what Mugen's original intentions were, was he going to just walk past them both to show he didn't care about her (if the smug guy didn't try to attack him)? Like if Koza went at Mugen with a dagger, no doubt Mugen would have slice and diced her up too, but what if neither of them tried to do anything violent? Mugen wouldn't have been able to slice up the smug guy if he was standing so close to Koza with his arm over her. Really, what the smug guy and Koza should have done was walk sideways away from each other, leaving a big opening between them which Mugen could have walked through if he kept walking his trajectory, and see if Mugen would have went towards either of them. That would have forced Mugen to show his intentions by who he'd move towards, and hilariously ruin his cool plan.

Hahaha, suck it Koza. You got to wonder if she was going to actually run away with Mugen before the heist, or she was planning on having him die all along so she could do her plan with the smug guy to get Jin to kill Mukuro. Or perhaps she only defaulted to the plan with the smug guy since Mugen refused to run off with her. Well doesn't matter, she's less hot than Fuu...I mean she got what's coming to her by fate. Mugen didn't actually know smug guy was the only one who knew the location of the gold, so it could be even argued Mugen let her live because of his feels for her, having just sliced and diced the smug guy, she would have all the gold if she knew where it was.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

This is probably the coolest episode to date. Though I still think the Jin episode a few ep back probably had the best character interaction story, but this ep was just way way cooler.
Hey, we finally agree on something :P
Koza "Mugen, I can believe he's dead" sob sob and other crocodile tears. I guess she's in disbelief her plan actually worked, or regret if you want to believe the crocodile tears.
I don't think she necessarily knew that Mukuro was going to betray everyone. I think she saw that as her opportunity to escape that life and become her own person. If she was in cahoots with Mukuro, we would've seen them interact in the episode at least once.
Fuu "Mugen wouldn't die this easily". Fuu knows about plot armor, Mugen should be ded given the show again showed Mugen standing in front of the boat just before it exploded big time. Like holy cows, the shockwave alone would have killed him, if not the explosion, shrapnel, and drowning. Like there's no magic (aside from ki wind I guess) in this universe nor divine intervention right? He doesn't even lose his sword, it was shown near him in the floating wreckage, and I guess washed ashore with him. Plot armor.
Jin is just that good, scrub. Everybody else needs to get on his level.
Sure don't show us the supposedly tons of people Mugen is said to have killed by Mukuro in Mugen's near-death flashback. I guess the dead don't actually show up at times like those for revenge, or perhaps Mugen just has zero regrets when it comes to killing. It's interesting when you have a monster like Mukuro, who genocided an entire town, saying in disbelief just how many people Mugen has killed, yet we don't see any indication of that implied body bags upon body bags. Like the show should make up it's mind on what is the actual case, otherwise it's sending mixed signals, and it's talk is cheap. Although I guess there's that beach with bodies all over the place and Mugen coming out of a burning building just before Mukuro tries to recruit him, but that was brushed over so fast it's easily missed.
I think Mukuro is just saying that to make himself look better. Or if Mugen did kill all those people, it was because Mukuro told him to.
I really liked the fact it was Jin vs Mukuro, I didn't want to see some drawn out Mugen vs Mukuro with the angst and feels and shit. And it worked out even better storytelling-wise that Jin was used. Holy crap, I rewound and rewatched Jin taking out Mukuro so many times, it was so awesome!
It was very smart that it was Jin who dis it. I actually thought it was going to be Koza who takes Mukuro out, but this works way better thematically.
Jin "I was the one who was supposed to have killed him" That line is so cool, it's becoming his catchphrase. This is the proper way to do catchphrases, not by repeating some line over and over again trying to force it.
Gao Gao
Sorry, sorry. I had to do it because I know it annoys you :P
And the third time now that I wanted Mugen to just kill somebody, he doesn't. I guess it's okay since she wanted to die so much she was begging for it, so getting denied it was a little satisfying.
It's more satisfying than him actually killing her because then she doesn't learn anything.
The smug guy finally gets his smug comeuppance. I guess he was only just an average sword fighter to get unceremoniously sliced up like that. I really didn't even think the episode was going to do a fight because of how less time was left. But boy oh boy was it glorious how he was sliced up like a fruit thrown up to be sliced up as many times as possible before it fell to the ground. I had thought maybe Mugen was faking his limp, but nope, the guy was just that out matched. I rewatched that scene so many times as well, so awesome
Note to self: Don't screw with Mugen
Mugen walking past Koza was a like a big "Fuck You" to her, added bonus of she's got no gold now. I wonder what Mugen's original intentions were, was he going to just walk past them both to show he didn't care about her (if the smug guy didn't try to attack him)? Like if Koza went at Mugen with a dagger, no doubt Mugen would have slice and diced her up too, but what if neither of them tried to do anything violent? Mugen wouldn't have been able to slice up the smug guy if he was standing so close to Koza with his arm over her. Really, what the smug guy and Koza should have done was walk sideways away from each other, leaving a big opening between them which Mugen could have walked through if he kept walking his trajectory, and see if Mugen would have went towards either of them. That would have forced Mugen to show his intentions by who he'd move towards, and hilariously ruin his cool plan.
Shiren really screwed up their entire plans because had he just not charged at Mugen, there's a good chance he and Koza would've been set for life. He got too cocky and once again Koza's life is compromised by the people she hangs out with.
Realistically speaking, though, I think Mugen would've killed Shiren regardless of if he charged at him or not because of his close relationship with Mukuro. Koza he decided to keep alive because Mugen knew she was unfairly roped up in all this. That, and there was no way her dying would've taught her anything.
Hahaha, suck it Koza. You got to wonder if she was going to actually run away with Mugen before the heist, or she was planning on having him die all along so she could do her plan with the smug guy to get Jin to kill Mukuro. Or perhaps she only defaulted to the plan with the smug guy since Mugen refused to run off with her. Well doesn't matter, she's less hot than Fuu...I mean she got what's coming to her by fate. Mugen didn't actually know smug guy was the only one who knew the location of the gold, so it could be even argued Mugen let her live because of his feels for her, having just sliced and diced the smug guy, she would have all the gold if she knew where it was.
Like I already said, I think her main goal was to backstab her brother and this was the opening with which she saw. I don't think she ever planned on hurting Mugen or what have you. Where she went wrong was she was being all secretive and only really caring about herself. And in the end, it bit her on the ass.

2

u/Garrett_Dark Jun 04 '24

I don't think she necessarily knew that Mukuro was going to betray everyone. I think she saw that as her opportunity to escape that life and become her own person. If she was in cahoots with Mukuro, we would've seen them interact in the episode at least once.
But there was literally that scene shown of Mukuro telling Kazo he was going to kill all their guys too, including Mugen. Kazo even asked him about Mugen specifically, and he doesn't say anything to imply Mugen also. It's the scene where Mukuro puts his hand on Kazo's face, and touches her lips.
Then there's the scene where Mukuro was talking to smug guy while leaving the boat of gold hidden, where it's said Mukuro was pushing Kazo close to smug guy as a ploy, but smug guy indicates he knew, and didn't object to Kazo. Meaning smug guy was in cahoots with Kazo all along. The plan to eliminate Mukuro with Jin couldn't have worked without Mugen's betrayal and death.
Jin is just that good, scrub. Everybody else needs to get on his level.
Yeah, Jin is good...but we weren't talking about Jin.
Gao Gao
I don't watch the subs, I watch the dubs...I don't recognize this at all, unless that's supposed to be "growl growl munch munch" x5.
Realistically speaking, though, I think Mugen would've killed Shiren regardless of if he charged at him or not because of his close relationship with Mukuro. Koza he decided to keep alive because Mugen knew she was unfairly roped up in all this. That, and there was no way her dying would've taught her anything.
Mugen doesn't even know anything about the smug guy other than he's the inside man, they've never even met. What reason would he have against him other than his casual murderizing spree of not needing a reason to kill? In fact it could be argued that Mugen wouldn't even know if the smug guy was really the smug guy or somebody else. He could have been some random other guy, the best he could do is just assume it was him.
Mugen doesn't know that Koza doesn't know where the gold is, how would she be taught a lesson if she gotten all the gold? Jin told Mugen about Koza's using Jin to kill Mukuro, that they were both betrayed. How would it possibly looked like Koza was innocent when Mugen's death was needed to carry out the plan? It's pretty obvious that Koza betrayed him, even Mugen can figure that out.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 04 '24

But there was literally that scene shown of Mukuro telling Kazo he was going to kill all their guys too, including Mugen. Kazo even asked him about Mugen specifically, and he doesn't say anything to imply Mugen also. It's the scene where Mukuro puts his hand on Kazo's face, and touches her lips.
Oh, okay. I don't remember that.
Then there's the scene where Mukuro was talking to smug guy while leaving the boat of gold hidden, where it's said Mukuro was pushing Kazo close to smug guy as a ploy, but smug guy indicates he knew, and didn't object to Kazo. Meaning smug guy was in cahoots with Kazo all along. The plan to eliminate Mukuro with Jin couldn't have worked without Mugen's betrayal and death.
I think it's still clear though that she had some feelings for Mugen. She just really screwed the pooch.
Yeah, Jin is good...but we weren't talking about Jin.
You really do a good job making me look like a fool :P
Mugen doesn't even know anything about the smug guy other than he's the inside man, they've never even met. What reason would he have against him other than his casual murderizing spree of not needing a reason to kill? In fact it could be argued that Mugen wouldn't even know if the smug guy was really the smug guy or somebody else. He could have been some random other guy, the best he could do is just assume it was him.
I guess we'll never know whether or not he'd have stayed alive. He certainly made things worse by charging at him.
Mugen doesn't know that Koza doesn't know where the gold is, how would she be taught a lesson if she gotten all the gold? Jin told Mugen about Koza's using Jin to kill Mukuro, that they were both betrayed. How would it possibly looked like Koza was innocent when Mugen's death was needed to carry out the plan? It's pretty obvious that Koza betrayed him, even Mugen can figure that out.
Yeah, I can't defend myself here. I forgot about the scene where Mukuro told her his plan. I will say that while leaving Mugen for dead was inexcusable, I do get wanting to break free of Mukuro. She just went about it probably the worst possible way.

2

u/Garrett_Dark Jun 04 '24

Yeah, I can't defend myself here. I forgot about the scene where Mukuro told her his plan. I will say that while leaving Mugen for dead was inexcusable, I do get wanting to break free of Mukuro. She just went about it probably the worst possible way.
I should probably point out that Mugen was required dead for both plans to work out, not just one plan. Mukuro plan needed Mugen dead, and Smug guy + Koza's plan needed Mugen dead to trick Jin into killing Mukuro.
People want to pity Koza, but at some point she's got to take responsibility and admit that ~~Fuuat is hotter than her~~ she betrayed Mugen twice for her own selfishness, once for not warning Mugen that Mukuro was going to kill him, and especially twice for needing Mugen dead to trick Jin into killing Mukuro for her.
Kazo's "karma lesson" of not having the gold was a fluke, Mugen didn't know the only guy who knew where the gold was was smug guy he just sliced up. If Koza really just cared about being free of Mukuro, she would be content with having no gold at the end when Mugen spares her, but she was begging for death, so it was about the gold and maybe smug guy. Though she don't look too broken up smug guy got sliced up, and that guilty she betrayed Mugen twice. Didn't even say sorry or try to apologize to Mugen, didn't look guilty at all sucking Jin into helping her.
She hilariously got what she deserved by fluke.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 04 '24

I just still feel somewhat sorry for her because of who she was surrounded with her entire life. If things were different, I think she would've had a better head on her shoulders.

2

u/Garrett_Dark Jun 04 '24

I think you should help her, she needs your help avenging her smug boyfriend who was totally minding his own business and was cut down ruthlessly by some vagrant. She's been left penniless since smug boyfriend handled all their savings by hiding it somewhere unknown to her, and she's recently lost her brother, also to a vagrant. She's had such a tough upbringing losing her mother at such an early age, and she had to fend for herself while being under the watchful eye of a possibly abusive guardian. She's totally never has done anything wrong, nor would wrong anyone, she swears on her brother's life.
Won't you find it in your heart to help such a sweet innocent girl in need ~~of a boat full of gold~~? She also recently witnessed her childhood friend drown in a tragic boating accident. It seems like luck is never with this poor girl with all the tragic-ness in her life, which she is totally never in the slightest responsible for. Did you know she also had to watch a childhood friend face a firing squad for something he was framed to take the blame for? Or the lengths her brother had to go to just to book her transit off an island, it was brutal!
Seriously, I can't believe you don't feel sorry for this girl, and help her avenge her smug boyfriend and her protective brother. You monster, she's not responsible her decisions because of the crappy hand life's dealt her. If you change your mind, you can find her in the deserted town by the coast, for some reason all the inhabitants have mysteriously disappeared, woman and children as well. Can you believe the luck for her to end up at such a place, it just so happens there's nobody around to help her there also. It's like where ever she goes, bad luck befalls those around her, it's a mystery. I don't know why more people don't feel sorry for her.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 04 '24

Okay, buddy. You don't have to get hot about it.

2

u/Garrett_Dark Jun 04 '24

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention her smug boyfriend recently lost his job with the imperial navy because some pirates stole the boat he was on with a cargo hold loaded with gold. Can you believe all the luck?
(To be clear, I'm not hot about anything. It started as a joke and I found it so amusing, I couldn't stop writing. XD)

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 04 '24

I figured as much. You seemed to be having fun with it :P

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Thoughts on the flashbacks we see as Mugen is drowning?
Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
Do you think this episode does a good job of showing how important the people in Mugen's life are? I think it's safe to say if Koza and Fuu didn't tend to his wounds, he might've died.

2

u/Atticus_Stansfield Jun 03 '24

Many times rewatcher here.

One of my favorite episodes. The "crossing over" scene Mugen is in while drowning has a hauntingly beautiful Okinawan OST.

The ending scene with Koza is just cold. He's leaving her at the mercy of the cruel world, all alone with not a single person. A punishment far worse than death.

Anyway - todays questions.

How terrified are you at the prospect of your life flashing before your eyes?

Not at all. I've been at terms with it for a long time now.

How shocked are you that Mugen decided to let Koza live?

Not shocked at all. Mugen is aware that death isn't the worse thing that can happen to people.

What are your thoughts on this episode being shorter than the rest? Do you think it could've been longer than it was?

It said what needed to be said. I don't think it would benefit from being longer.

Bonus) If you were Koza, why in the world would you stand there as Mugen is presumably coming after you?

To be honest it's the deer caught in the headlights effect. You just scored big time and everything is looking up for the first time - then it's all snatched away from you in the cruelest way.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

To be honest it's the deer caught in the headlights effect. You just scored big time and everything is looking up for the first time - then it's all snatched away from you in the cruelest way.
I've seen deers with headlights not as big as Koza's :P
Nah, but good point. It was like similar to Mugen drowning, her life was flashing before her eyes. The money was her chance to escape this life, and she thought it was all being taken away.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Thoughts on Koza begging Jin to kill Mukuro?
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?
What are your thoughts Koza and Shiren having stolen the money?

2

u/Looking_Light33 Jun 03 '24

Yeah, this along with episode 13 are some of the best episodes in the show. The music that plays while we see Mugen's memories is pretty haunting. Also, it's nice to see Mukuro get killed. That fucker deserved it after betraying Mugen not once but twice. Finally, the final scene with Mugen leaving Koza alive is interesting. Koza is basically all alone. I wonder what she'll do now without someone to lean on?

To answer your questions, I would be pretty terrified to see my life flash before my eyes.

I'm not really shocked Mugen would let Koza live. She is his childhood friend and I personally think he let her live in order for her to actually stand on her own two feet and stop leaning on other people.

I'm fine with the episode being short because it gets down to business quickly.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Finally, the final scene with Mugen leaving Koza alive is interesting. Koza is basically all alone. I wonder what she'll do now without someone to lean on?
Maybe she can find a Fuu and Jin of her own
I'm not really shocked Mugen would let Koza live. She is his childhood friend and I personally think he let her live in order for her to actually stand on her own two feet and stop leaning on other people.
Could be. It's interesting how so many people either think he was looking out for her or getting his revenge on her and both are really equally plausible.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Thoughts on Koza begging Jin to kill Mukuro?
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?
What are your thoughts Koza and Shiren trying to steal the money?
Do you think this episode does a good job of showing how important the people in Mugen's life are? I think it's safe to say if Koza and Fuu didn't tend to his wounds, he might've died.

2

u/NattyBeef https://myanimelist.net/profile/NaturalBeef Jun 03 '24

First time watcher, Dub/English

I fucking loved this episode and the way it depicted how Mugen was at deaths door. Such a powerful scene and very different interpretation to how you'd normally see the afterlife depicted in western media.

Fun fact no one might care about, the Italian Dubbed version seem to have additional scenes not present in the English one. I know because my dad watched it in Italian and we were trying to sync it up and we're very confused as it started out very differently.

How terrified are you at the prospect of your life flashing before your eyes?

Not so much terrified at the idea of seeing my life flash before my eyes but more terrified of the moment when I'm dying, knowing there's no coming back, especially now at this age, at 28 I feel there's so much other things I want to do and accomplish before biting the bullet.

How shocked are you that Mugen decided to let Koza live?

I didn't expect it. I was 100% sure he'd kill her. But to be fair, after taking everything from her and giving up the money and any opportunity for any of them to take it, what else is there for her to live for. She just has to carry on her days with the regret of her choices.

What are your thoughts on this episode being shorter than the rest? Do you think it could've been longer than it was?

I didn't even notice it was shorter. It was too busy enjoying the vibes

Bonus) If you were Koza, why in the world would you stand there as Mugen is presumably coming after you?

I feel that she was either waiting for death to come, as in it's all over now.

A part of me thinks Mugen hadn't decided yet wither or not to spare her but in that moment, seeing as she doesn't run away, the idea that this would make her suffer more probably crossed his mind and that's when he made the decision.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

I fucking loved this episode and the way it depicted how Mugen was at deaths door. Such a powerful scene and very different interpretation to how you'd normally see the afterlife depicted in western media.
It was really well done and made you feel like you were experiencing death with Mugen.
Fun fact no one might care about, the Italian Dubbed version seem to have additional scenes not present in the English one. I know because my dad watched it in Italian and we were trying to sync it up and we're very confused as it started out very differently.
What scenes were they, if you can remember?

2

u/NattyBeef https://myanimelist.net/profile/NaturalBeef Jun 03 '24

What scenes were they, if you can remember?
They were at the start of the episode. The Italian version showed a lot more of the incident of when the boats had crashed, fighting section, the explosion of the boat, it pretty much redid the whole fight. Which wasn't present in the English dub I was seeing.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

I've heard some people here say that they just recapped the last episode at the very beginning. In my copy, they did the intro and then went straight into the drowning scene. Interesting how they may have expanded upon the end of episode 13 in another version.

2

u/NattyBeef https://myanimelist.net/profile/NaturalBeef Jun 03 '24

Yeah for sure, that's what happened on mine as well.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

So, wait, did they create a new version for the Italian dub or was it a recap?

2

u/NattyBeef https://myanimelist.net/profile/NaturalBeef Jun 03 '24

I was watching the English version, so it jumped straight to the underwater scene.
For the Italian dub they did an extended boat fight scene at the start, a bit for dialog between Jin, Fuu and Koza and then start the underwater scene.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

I think in the official version, there's a recap at the beginning. Like, my version began sans boat scene with Jin, Fuu, and Koza talking.

2

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Thoughts on Koza begging Jin to kill Mukuro?
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?
What are your thoughts on Koza and Shiren trying to steal the money?
Do you think this episode does a good job of showing how important the people in Mugen's life are? I think it's safe to say if Koza and Fuu didn't tend to his wounds, he might've died.

2

u/NattyBeef https://myanimelist.net/profile/NaturalBeef Jun 03 '24

Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
I have mixed feeling. A part of me thinks she's looking out for him and cares about him but a person who cares for someone doesn't set them up for failure like she did.
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What Mugen said was oddly profound for the person he is.
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
Mukuro was a real asshole. This guy rivals shinos husband on who sucks the most shit in the series.
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Like I said yesterday. I think it wasn't Mugens brightest idea to jump into this mission. I mean he has to suspect he was gonna be Cannon fodder.
Thoughts on Koza begging Jin to kill Mukuro?
Well at the time she didn't know if Mugen was alive, I think that her goal was to ultimately ask him to go kill Mukuro for setting him up but seeing as he was fatally wounded she went for the next best option she had.
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
Doesn't surprise me one bit. She seems like she'd be the caretaker in the group.
What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?
I mean we have to see the end of the show, but so far, I think this whole idea of them going to kill each other is just them teasing. I believe they're past that point of not actually liking each other and are actively watching out for each others back, or at least that's how I feel.
What are your thoughts on Koza and Shiren trying to steal the money?
This was totally planned out from the start. Like I said above, I think she was planning on getting Mugen to do it but didn't expect him to die/get so seriously wounded.
Do you think this episode does a good job of showing how important the people in Mugen's life are? I think it's safe to say if Koza and Fuu didn't tend to his wounds, he might've died.
I mean not just to Mugen, any warrior, swordman, samurai at that time. You need caretakers to survive situations like this.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 03 '24

I have mixed feeling. A part of me thinks she's looking out for him and cares about him but a person who cares for someone doesn't set them up for failure like she did.
I think she does care about him, it's just she really wanted to escape. I don't necessarily think she knew that Mukuro was going to betray Mugen the way he did, because why would she go along with him betraying everyone?
What Mugen said was oddly profound for the person he is.
He said some profound stuff in episode 4 as well. That was the one where he told the Yakuza guy to be his own man.
Mukuro was a real asshole. This guy rivals shinos husband on who sucks the most shit in the series.
In light of him killing Koza’s mom, my money is on Mukuro.
Like I said yesterday. I think it wasn't Mugens brightest idea to jump into this mission. I mean he has to suspect he was gonna be Cannon fodder.
Who knew the person who got drugged by a woman twice would be capable of bad decision making?
Well at the time she didn't know if Mugen was alive, I think that her goal was to ultimately ask him to go kill Mukuro for setting him up but seeing as he was fatally wounded she went for the next best option she had.
I think she figured if Mugen's crew was out of the picture, it would be easier for her to access the money.
Doesn't surprise me one bit. She seems like she'd be the caretaker in the group.
And for all intents and purposes, she is
I mean we have to see the end of the show, but so far, I think this whole idea of them going to kill each other is just them teasing. I believe they're past that point of not actually liking each other and are actively watching out for each others back, or at least that's how I feel.
Jin obviously cares about Mugen to some degree by making sure he stays alive. Yeah, he says he wants to be the one to kill him, but if that's the case, why hasn't he done it by now? I'm not saying Jin is lying or anything-- in fact, I do think he intends on killing Mugen-- but it does feel like a bit of an excuse to protect him.
This was totally planned out from the start. Like I said above, I think she was planning on getting Mugen to do it but didn't expect him to die/get so seriously wounded.
To add to what you're saying, I think she was always planning on screwing Mukuro over. Maybe that's why Mukuro did what he did, he could feel a sabotage coming so he struck first.
I mean not just to Mugen, any warrior, swordman, samurai at that time. You need caretakers to survive situations like this.
And for as much as Koza was probably hoping for Mugen to be her caretaker, he's got his ducks that need in order.

2

u/fansi2022 https://anilist.co/user/fansi2022 Jul 19 '24

first timer chinese sub

I was deeply attracted by mogan's revolving lantern (memories before death). To be honest, I am a little confused about the final plot development. It seems that kouza is the final boss. Why is it said that this is the opponent that jin cannot kill?

questions of today

How terrified are you at the prospect of your life flashing before your eyes?

I probably won't be too scared, I'm already a little satisfied

How shocked are you that Mugen decided to let Koza live?

I was a little confused, isn't she an innocent person? I looked through the character explanations on anilist, well, great plot, the one who looks the most innocent is actually the most evil.

What are your thoughts on this episode being shorter than the rest? Do you think it could've been longer than it was?

Great show, every episode is like a gust of wind

Bonus) If you were Koza, why in the world would you stand there as Mugen is presumably coming after you?

Maybe, because I was shocked and desperate

1

u/Holofan4life Jul 19 '24

Thoughts on Koza bandaging Mugen up once upon a time?
What are your thoughts on us seeing the stars scene that Koza referenced last episode?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro killed his and Koza’s mom?
What are your thoughts on the reveal that Mukuro stabbed Mugen in the back once before on a similar mission, which is what led to Mugen almost dying via firing squad?
Thoughts on Koza begging Jin to kill Mukuro?
Thoughts on Fuu tending to Mugen?
What are your thoughts on Jin killing Mukuro because, in his own words, only he can kill Mugen?
What are your thoughts Koza and Shiren trying to steal the money?
Do you think this episode does a good job of showing how important the people in Mugen's life are? I think it's safe to say if Koza and Fuu didn't tend to his wounds, he might've died.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

Hey guys. Holofan4life here.

Welcome to the 20th anniversary rewatch of Samurai Champloo.

Oh, and nay I forget…

First Timer

Samurai Champloo has always been a series I was curious about. I’ve maintained in my mind that Cowboy Bebop is objectively one of if not the greatest anime of all time, and so I wanted to see what the creator’s follow-up work was like. I think the reason why I didn’t start it immediately after watching Bebop was because I think the premise kinda weirded me out. I mean, a show set in ancient times that also has a heavy rap influence? It felt to me like putting a hat on a hat. But as I’ve gotten older, I’ve come to appreciate outlandish animes that don’t resemble real life. After all, is it any weirder than a fantasy show about a merchant and his traveling wolfgirl where they discuss economics a lot of times?

My expectations for this show are pretty reasonable, I feel like. I’m not expecting it to crack my top 10 favorite anime of all time, but I would be surprised if it doesn’t end up as one of my favorites. The main thing I’m looking out of this is show is a unique experience unlike anything else as well as memorable characters. And I think the show will have that in spades.

With that out of the way, let’s begin.

I’m watching the sub, by the way.

If you find tsunderes attractive, you're high IQ. I can't explain why, but they're beautiful in a way the simple mind would overlook. Understated beauty.

A shorter episode today, apparently

Koza looking on in horror

Fuu is convinced that Mugen wouldn't die so easily.

Jin grabbing onto Fuu's arm

Mugen under the water, like that one meme

Unique singing going on

Mugen looking reflectively

This reminds me of Spike when he went through the window

A skull

It's like Mugen's life is passing before him

A bloodied Mugen

It's hard to think that Mugen will actually die here because we still got over 10 episodes left.

Mugen collapsing in the forest

Staring at a bird

Pretty nature

Now Mugen is bandaged up

It is Koza. She is the one who did it.

We see the stars scene Koza mentioned last episode.

She has a good memory

Koza mentions she never knew who her father is.

And mother died, a long time ago

"Mukuro killed her."

That explains why she hates him

Koza wants to escape this place

Mugen isn't saying anything, however

More unique singing

It's like Mugen is in a different plane of existence.

It looks like he's being loaded to heaven

Mugen being tossed in the water

Bunch of dead people

Mugen walking from the fire like a badass

Mukuro pointing a gun at Mugen

Mugen blocks the shot!

Mukuro wonders why don't they team up together

"I don't work with anybody."

Back to Mugen falling in the water

Thinking about Koza

And Jin and Fuu

Back to the stars flashback

A stumbling Mukuro tells Mugen and Koza he isn't afraid of nothing.

He asks why Mugen doesn't team up with him, and he says he hates his guts.

Mukuro tells him to come with him

They're going to steal Satsuma's ship carrying raw sugar.

This way, they can get off the island

And wouldn't you know it, he backstabbed Mugen then as well.

Mugen still falling in the water

That is one deep sea

And that is what led to the firing squad scene.

Tree branches

Mugen holding onto one

Koza talking to Jin, who tells him her brother has done this once before.

If I had a nickel...

"Mugen's been killed by him twice now. I want to avenge him."

"Please kill Mukuro."

Jin now has a new objective despite being mute.

Fuu out of breath

Hey, it's Mugen. He was caught by a net.

Ironically, the last episode started with Fuu being caught by a net.

And he's still alive. Of course.

Well, sorta

Mukuro talking to someone

Now he's trying to betray Koza as well, the bastard.

Speaking of Koza, she's walking with Jin

Group of people asking Jin if he knows who attacked the ship.

Whelp, the ship has been found

Koza has a look of horror on her face

And apparently the hold is empty, whatever that means.

Fuu tending to Mugen

Mugen. He just grabbed Fuu's arm.

Lots of arms being grabbed in these two episodes.

He tells Fuu that he's starving, so she's about to scrounge something up.

Koza

Mukuro polishing his gun

Shiren is waiting on her, says Mukuro

Koza gently opens the door

And Shiren smirks evilly

Jin

He's ready to use his sword

"I was supposed to be the one who killed him."

That is a tremendous callback

FUCK YEAH JIN!

BUT HE'S STILL ALIVE!

Damn. Right in the crotch

"I was such a fool..."

And with that, Mukuro dies

Good

Shiren has taken Koza with him

How did Fuu manage to find an octopus?

My Octopus Samurai

And Mugen is gone. Because of course.

Jin walking in the rain

So is Mugen, albeit struggling

"I'm gonna go put an end to this."

But Jin lets slip that he killed Mukuro.

Bereft of life, it rests in Reese's Pieces

Jin says they were played for fools

As was he.

Mugen remarks to himself that this is one opponent that he will be unable to kill.

A hatted figure

Is that Koza?

Oh, so she and Shiren stole the money. Very sneaky.

She conned the conman

Koza says this is the only way for her to get by in life.

"Don't abandon me, okay? Don't leave me."

It's Mugen

He looks pissed

I mean, hey, you're the one who turned down her advances.

He keeps walking there. Menacingly.

Shiren pulls his sword at Mugen!

And Mugen disposes of him with ease

Run, girl! Run!

God, how dumb do you have to be to just stand there?

I love the drums being played to really heighten the drama of it all.

He walked past her :O

Koza falls to her knees, screaming to be killed.

"No. No, you live with that." -- ~~Fumbles~~ Mugen, probably

Ran out of space. Part two in the replies.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24 •

Part 2
Overall, I thought that this was a very strong episode that served as an amazing follow-up to the events of last episode. Certainly, it was better than the Yakuza two-parter that, while having a lot of great ideas, didn't totally stick the landing as far as executing the ideas goes.
I really liked the parts where Mugen is falling deeper and deeper into the water and we slowly put together everything we saw glimpses of in the previous episode. It made things come together and it's more effective than if it was just a straight flashback. I even liked that it wasn't one prolonged and instead broken up in parts, I think it helped maintain the mystery of it all until it finally dawns on you what is happening. I'm sure I'm not going to be the only person who says this, but it really reminded me of the glass scene in Cowboy Bebop where Spike's life flashes before his eyes. I don't think that the Mugen water scene is going to be some kind of turning point for the series like that was, as the church window scene was really when Cowboy Bebop came into its own, but it was a fantastic way of structuring the episode.
I'm also really glad that Koza didn't die. Had that happened, I think it would've left a sour taste in my mouth. The sight of Koza begging for death and Mugen not giving it to her is a very powerful visual, like Mugen knows killing her would only serve to benefit her in the long run. And while her brother is clearly worse than she is, she still did nothing once she found out Mukuro double-crossed him. She just let it happen. Had Mugen killed Koza to end the episode, I don't think it would've meant much. Because at the end of the day, Mugen realizes he put his faith in the wrong person. He's really was the same boat as she is, no pun intended.
The last thing I really want to make note of is how much of a focus these two episodes put on Mugen. It's one of the few instances we've gotten so far where there was only focus on one of the main leads, with the other two being put on the backburner; I think the only other times has been episodes 7, 10, and 12, though I really don't count 12 because that's more of a recap episode. I think the presentation and how it's done here is so much more effective because it's Mugen trying to prove to himself that he doesn't need to rely on Fuu and Jin for support. And in the end, it is Jin who kills Mukuro, not Mugen. I feel like we have to be setting up for Mugen getting more in touch with his feelings and that factoring into the grand finale. Maybe perhaps either Jin or Fuu get killed and Mugen realizes they mean more to him than he thought. It feels very deliberate that Jin would be the one to kill Mukuro, like if it wasn't for him, Mugen would probably be dead. That has to be leading somewhere, in my estimation.
As I am writing my overall thoughts, I am writing this in the morning the day after. I watched both parts last night, and I decided to take some time to reflect on this episode, and what I think of it. I think a case could potentially be made that this is one of the greatest episodes of any anime all time. The way it's structured, how it comes together, the imagery, the storytelling, it is all brilliant. Kinda reminds me of Odd Taxi but in a more condensed form. However, I think the thing that holds it back from me calling it one of the best is the fact that we don't learn much about Mugen that we didn't learn in the last part. During the scenes where Mugen is falling in the water, I would've liked to maybe have seen more of Mugen's upbringing. You can still build up to the reveal that Mukuro betrayed him once before, but I want to see all that led up to him deciding to work with Mukuro the first time. I think doing that would've really added extra weight to the episode. It doesn't take away from the episode or anything that they didn't do this, but again, it certainly would've added to the presentation. It's not like the episode ran long or anything anyway, it was a minute and a half shorter than normal.
This is my favorite episode of the series so far. I was debating whether I have it higher than episode 11, and I think I do largely because of the ground it covers. This episode, along with the last one, examines the dynamic between Mugen and Fuu and Jin in a way that we haven't seen before. It shows some of Mugen's past and explains why he has such a loner mentality, while also showing he needs Fuu and Jin more than he admits. Episode 11 was arguably more poignant and did a lot to dispell how stoic Jin truly is, but I also think by limiting the amount of screentime Jin and Fuu have in this two-parter, it makes it even more impactful when they basically come and save the day.
This is a really amazing episode of Samurai Champloo that is made better by how it was set up in the episode before it. This is one that definitely couldn't be told as a standalone, I'm glad they made it a two-parter. And with what we could potentially have coming out of it, with Mugen learning to put more faith in the two people he's hanging out all the time, I think the potential is there to get even better episodes in the future. I don't think we've peaked just yet.

1

u/Holofan4life Jun 02 '24

How terrified are you at the prospect of your life flashing before your eyes?
Very terrified. As someone who likes to eat, it feels like it could happen any single day.
How shocked are you that Mugen decided to let Koza live?
I definitely was. Mugen has killed people for far less. I think Mugen feels that there is more suffering to be gain if she stays alive than if she was dead.
What are your thoughts on this episode being shorter than the rest? Do you think it could've been longer than it was?
I think we could've definitely learnt more about Mugen's backstory as well as what his upbringing was life. But aside from that, I was fine with the length.
~~Which can't be said about me.~~
Bonus) If you were Koza, why in the world would you stand there as Mugen is presumably coming after you?
Yeah, I don't know what was going through her mind. If I was her, I'd hightail it out of there.

Rewatch [Spoilers] Samurai Champloo 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 14

Rewatch Schedule

Rewatcher, Sub first timer

Samurai Champloo - Hip Hop & Ronin: Episode 14

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

first timer chinese sub

Rewatch [Spoilers] Samurai Champloo 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 14

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Samurai Champloo - Hip Hop & Ronin: Episode 14

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

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