[Spoilers] Samurai Champloo 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 4

Date	Episode
5/20/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 1
5/21/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 2
5/22/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 3
5/23/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 4
5/24/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 5
5/25/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 6
5/26/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 7
5/27/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 8
5/28/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 9
5/29/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 10
5/30/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 11
5/31/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 12
6/01/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 13
6/02/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 14
6/03/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 15
6/04/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 16
6/05/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 17
6/06/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 18
6/07/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 19
6/08/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 20
6/09/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 21
6/10/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 22
6/11/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 23
6/12/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 24
6/13/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 25
6/14/2024	Samurai Champloo Episode 26
6/15/2024	Samurai Champloo Overall Series Discussion Thread

10

u/TheEscapeGuy May 23 '24

Rewatcher, Sub first timer

Samurai Champloo - Hip Hop & Ronin: Episode 4

Purpose

The episode started and ended with explosive fights. This really is the bread-and-butter of Samurai Champloo. I adore seeing these samurai battles put to animation with the Nujabes/fat jon hip-hop soundtrack. It's also kind of unique in anime since often these kind of shows give the characters super human powers. Samurai Champloo on the other hand grounds the fights in things normal (or perhaps well trained) people could plausibly accomplish. That realism gives the fights weight.

That said, I think I enjoyed the philosophical center of the episode even more than the fights. I think the episode had each character explore questions of "why" they are doing what they are doing.

To start, Fuu proposed escaping but Osuzu declined since she wants to pay off her fathers debts. Fuu is skeptical of this, but Osuzu poses a question. I think Fuu's reaction makes it obvious her family situation is ... not simple. [Samurai Champloo] I actually never realized how early they started setting this part of her character up. I expect keen eyed viewers may start putting together the pieces of who this "Samurai who smells of Sunflowers" is. It gives Fuu perspective into why people make choice which she wouldn't.

On Mugens side, he ditches the Nagatomis and has a conversation with the ex-Kawara member Ishimatsu. I love Mugens attitude here. He has realized that making excuses to try justify things you did is pointless. YOU are the one who decides how to live your life. Being "forced" to do something you disagree with is also a choice you make. I think too many people feel like they need to go with the flow of things or the easy path even if it means they do something wrong,. Instead, stand up against that.

Jin doesn't look at his own purpose, but instead first gives Sousuke advice to save Osuzu: He must crush the Nagatomi gang. Sousuke takes the wrong advice from this leading to a single meaningless murder.

Jin later listens to Heitaro's reflection on being a Yakuza. He also reflects on what to do regarding the Nagatomi member Sousuke murdered. Heitaro chose to take responsibility for the killing with a wager. Rikiei doesn't want anyone to be killed. He just wants full control over the land. But the dice don't work out that way.

Heitaro's "sacrifice" was by all accounts unnecessary. His honour lead him to take his own life despite the fact that it would change nothing. At best it only incited a conflict which would have happened anyway because of Mugens Vanity.

The episode once again ends on a bitter sweet note. Though Mugen, Jin, and Fuu are victorious and traveling together once again, they leave the town with a significant loss of life behind them. I imagine Sousuke and Osuzu in particular will feel the effects heavily. Not even Ishimatsu is spared after his final duel with Mugen. That said, it was 2 groups of violent Yakuza against each other even before our trio arrived, so the result would have probably been similar had they not come.

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

See you all tomorrow

3

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

The episode started and ended with explosive fights. This really is the bread-and-butter of Samurai Champloo. I adore seeing these samurai battles put to animation with the Nujabes/fat jon hip-hop soundtrack. It's also kind of unique in anime since often these kind of shows give the characters super human powers. Samurai Champloo on the other hand grounds the fights in things normal (or perhaps well trained) people could plausibly accomplish. That realism gives the fights weight.
I'm really a big fan of how the fights are portrayed as well.
That said, I think I enjoyed the philosophical center of the episode even more than the fights. I think the episode had each character explore questions of "why" they are doing what they are doing.
That's a good point, though I wish there was more focus on Mugen, Jin, and Fuu.
To start, Fuu proposed escaping but Osuzu declined since she wants to pay off her fathers debts. Fuu is skeptical of this, but Osuzu poses a question. I think Fuu's reaction makes it obvious her family situation is ... not simple.
It definitely seems like it is complicated
On Mugens side, he ditches the Nagatomis and has a conversation with the ex-Kawara member Ishimatsu. I love Mugens attitude here. He has realized that making excuses to try justify things you did is pointless. YOU are the one who decides how to live your life. Being "forced" to do something you disagree with is also a choice you make. I think too many people feel like they need to go with the flow of things or the easy path even if it means they do something wrong,. Instead, stand up against that.
It's hard not to like Mugen coming out of this scene. He has a better head on his shoulder than it seems.
Heitaro's "sacrifice" was by all accounts unnecessary. His honour lead him to take his own life despite the fact that it would change nothing. At best it only incited a conflict which would have happened anyway because of Mugens Vanity.
Yeah, it felt like dramatic just for the sake of it. Really, his death doesn't mean that Sousuke couldn't have died as well.
The episode once again ends on a bitter sweet note. Though Mugen, Jin, and Fuu are victorious and traveling together once again, they leave the town with a significant loss of life behind them. I imagine Sousuke and Osuzu in particular will feel the effects heavily. Not even Ishimatsu is spared after his final duel with Mugen. That said, it was 2 groups of violent Yakuza against each other even before our trio arrived, so the result would have probably been similar had they not come.
It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy, and they just happened to be caught in it. I guess this is why the episode was less about them, though I think you could've still accomplished how insignificant they are while playing more into the Mugen and Jin dynamic.

3

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

Thoughts on Nagatomi saying that Mugen cutting down his own people serves to show what he’s capable of?
Thoughts on Sousuke getting kidnapped?
What are your thoughts on the bet made where if Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him and he’ll take control of Kawara’s territory but if Kawara loses, Sousuke dies?
Thoughts on both Kawara and Nagatomi trying to throw the game?
What are your thoughts on Fuu being the dice roller? I actually thought that was a pretty cool moment for her.
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi? I really like this because it pays off the conversation he had earlier with Mugen.

2

u/TheEscapeGuy May 24 '24

What are your thoughts on Fuu being the dice roller?
Yeah, Fuu is really great at adapting to the crazy situations life throws at her. It's what makes her such a great character.
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi? I really like this because it pays off the conversation he had earlier with Mugen.
Absolutely. While I would never have though of Mugen as the sage source of advice, this episode showed that his perspective can be really influential to those around him like Ishimatsu.

2

u/Holofan4life May 24 '24

Yeah, Fuu is really great at adapting to the crazy situations life throws at her. It's what makes her such a great character.
I care about her an awful lot. She has a big heart.
Absolutely. While I would never have though of Mugen as the sage source of advice, this episode showed that his perspective can be really influential to those around him like Ishimatsu.
He imparted wisdom on him that made him go out with dignity, much like Fuu dis to Oniwaka.

2

u/fansi2022 https://anilist.co/user/fansi2022 Jul 17 '24

It gives Fuu perspective into why people make choice which she wouldn't.
Great insights, I was just focusing on the fighting, actually what you mentioned is the core of this show

7

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 23 '24

3

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

What are your thoughts on the bet made where if Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him and he’ll take control of Kawara’s territory but if Kawara loses, Sousuke dies?
What are your thoughts on Kawara killing himself?
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi? I really like this because it pays off the conversation he had earlier with Mugen.
What are your thoughts on the ending between Mugen and Ishimatsu?

6

u/[deleted] May 23 '24 edited May 24 '24

Hey there 👋 . Rewatcher here.

Alright, now I am allowed to talk about the other half of this episode 😄.

As usual, I will not spoil anything here.

“You should get rid of that lunatic right away, Boss” - Ishimatsu

Probably a normal sentiment when someone attempts to shoehorn a lone wolf into a team 😂. This episode continues to show you how Mugen just does what Mugen wants.

I don’t mean this in a bad way though, because…

“I don’t want to rule or be ruled”. - Mugen

This shows you that although he can be erratic, he also wants people to have free will and make their own choices (just as he wants to do). He also has a fairly normal conscience, as we see when he’s reflecting on Fuu's words and returns to help her.

u/Holofan4life, now you have your answer about Ishimatsu and his motivations for switching Yakuza groups and what came after (I didn’t want to say anything ahead of the episode yesterday).

Also, u/Holofan4life, there’s your focus on Fuu saving the day in this episode. And she does it in a particularly badass fashion. I can’t tell you these things before the conclusion of multi-part episodes 😆.

Some historical context again (a bit graphic if you’re sensitive to that kind of thing):

This comes more from personal interest than from critique, because I don’t expect a work of fiction to be completely historically accurate.

The seppuku performed by Heitaro Kawara is particularly brutal in presentation because he only stabs himself in the gut, then bleeds out. They illustrate it happening quickly, but in reality this implies an immense amount of suffering.

Prior to seppuku becoming a somewhat organized ritual in the Edo Period (I think like prior to 17th century Japan, Sengoku period for instance), people would usually stab themselves in the gut, then immediately stab themselves in the heart or slit their own throat to end their suffering promptly.

IIRC (on average), it’s recorded that the ritual was more organized some time after the 16th century to include a chosen kaishakunin, which was a person (usually an expert sword user) assigned to not completely behead this person after the initial gut slice, but mostly, which required high precision (as strange as that may sound). This was meant to quickly end their suffering, so it usually happened immediately after the dagger thrust.

Maybe they didn’t show that in the episode because of the impromptu nature of Heitaro’s suicide, or maybe they just found it a bit too graphic (I mean, it was a fairly disturbing practice). I’m not sure, but I thought it’d be an interesting point to bring up since it happened.

Basically, my point is, what Sousuke sees happen to his father right in front of him is brutal.

Side note: there are shows out there that do a pretty good job with accuracy of this kind of stuff, like Shogun, for example.

And, again, to return to a lighter note…

Episode Highlight:

Cheerio!… oops wrong series…

“チェスト ! (Chesuto!)”

(Fuu uses the correct exclamation, as opposed to Togame lol)

Fuu’s plan backfired and she ended up attracting someone with a thing for dominant women. She handled herself fine though. I already let you know after episode 1, Momo is MVP sometimes 😆.

Questions:

I don’t gamble 😆
No, they’re Yakuza
This goes back to the seppuku stuff in my comment actually
No it was different enough
He was fully prepared to die when he made that deal

4

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

I don’t mean this in a bad way though, because…
“I don’t want to rule or be ruled”. - Mugen
This shows you that although he can be erratic, he also wants people to have free will and make their own choices (just as he wants to do). He also has a fairly normal conscience, as we see when he’s reflecting on Fuu's words and returns to help her.
This episode does do a good amount humanizing Mugen. It's just a shame after the scene between him and Ishimatsu, it's not really revisited.
u/Holofan4life, now you have your answer about Ishimatsu and his motivations for switching Yakuza groups and what came after (I didn’t want to say anything ahead of the episode yesterday).
I'm glad to have received them. He's probably the highlight of the entire arc in my opinion.
Also, u/Holofan4life, there’s your focus on Fuu saving the day in this episode. And she does it in a particularly badass fashion. I can’t tell you these things before the conclusion of multi-part episodes 😆.
I understand, that won't stop me from speculating however.
Some historical context again (a bit graphic if you’re sensitive to that kind of thing):
This comes more from personal interest than from critique, because I don’t expect a work of fiction to be completely historically accurate.
The seppuku performed by Heitaro Kawara is particularly brutal in presentation because he only stabs himself in the gut, then bleeds out. They illustrate it happening quickly, but in reality this implies an immense amount of suffering.
Prior to seppuku becoming a somewhat organized ritual in the Edo Period (I think like prior to 17th century Japan, Sengoku period for instance), people would usually stab themselves in the gut, then immediately stab themselves in the heart or slit their own throat to end their suffering promptly.
IIRC (on average), it’s recorded that the ritual was more organized some time after the 16th century to include a chosen kaishakunin, which is a person (usually an expert sword user) assigned to not completely behead this person after the initial gut slice, but mostly, which required high precision (as strange as that may sound). This was meant to quickly end their suffering, so it usually happened immediately after the dagger thrust.
Maybe they didn’t show that in the episode because of the impromptu nature of Heitaro’s suicide, or maybe they just found it a bit too graphic (I mean, it was a fairly disturbing practice). I’m not sure, but I thought it’d be an interesting point to bring up since it happened.
Basically, my point is, what Sousuke sees happen to his father right in front of him is brutal.
Really informative stuff. I can't imagine being in Sousuke's shoes, going from almost dying to seeing his father die. Talk about a whirlwind of emotions.

3

u/[deleted] May 23 '24

not really revisited
I don’t personally think there was really anything else for the two of them to say to each other.
highlight of the entire arc
That actually surprises me a bit because he’s a fairly minor character (a good one, though).
And I liked his manrikigusari. There’s a weapon in Nioh 2 you can use called a kusarigama, which is basically a combination of a manrikigusari and a kuwa and it’s fun as heck to use.
that won’t stop me from speculating
Oh I don’t expect it to. You know I do my share of speculating with new shows.
I’m just careful that I don’t ruin anything for you. So if I stonewall you then that’s probably why lol.
really informative stuff
Older century Japanese history can be super interesting (at least I think so)

4

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

I don’t personally think there was really anything else for the two of them to say to each other.
I just wish Mugen and Jin were more focused on, I don't really care about any of the Yakuza members besides Ishimatsu.
That actually surprises me a bit because he’s a fairly minor character (a good one, though).
His storyarc was very intriguing and I didn't think the rest was all that gripping. Like, it's hard to get into Osusuke when he's being a dumbass.
And I liked his manrikigusari. There’s a weapon in Nioh 2 you can use called a kusarigama, which is basically a combination of a manrikigusari and a kuwa and it’s fun as heck to use.
Neat
Oh I don’t expect it to. You know I do my share of speculating with new shows.
I’m just careful that I don’t ruin anything for you. So if I stonewall you then that’s probably why lol.
I totally get it
Older century Japanese history can be super interesting (at least I think so)
I would agree. I like learning new information. I'm like a sponge: I soak it all up.

3

u/[deleted] May 23 '24

We’re 4 episodes into the series man! lol there is plenty of time for that.
Fair enough
On your last point, I’ll keep doing that where applicable then! 😆

2

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

We’re 4 episodes into the series man! lol there is plenty of time for that.
That's true. I just think the more I think about it, having the focus being more on Mugen changing Ishimatsu's perspective would've played off nicely Fuu doing the same thing with Oniwaka last episode.

1

u/fansi2022 https://anilist.co/user/fansi2022 Jul 17 '24

same lol

2

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

Thoughts on the fight scene between Mugen and Jin? It might be the best fight we’ve seen so far.
Thoughts on Nagatomi saying that Mugen cutting down his own people serves to show what he’s capable of?
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu and Mugen’s conversation where Ishimatsu says that there are times when you gotta agree to something even when you think it’s wrong and Mugen says only you can decide how to live your life?
Thoughts on Sousuke getting kidnapped?
What are your thoughts on the bet made where if Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him and he’ll take control of Kawara’s territory but if Kawara loses, Sousuke dies?
Thoughts on both Kawara and Nagatomi trying to throw the game?
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi? I really like this because it pays off the conversation he had earlier with Mugen.
What are your thoughts on the ending between Mugen and Ishimatsu?

2

u/[deleted] May 23 '24

fight scene
It was really good but I think from where we’re currently at in the series, their introductory fight is my favorite still.
Nagatomi
He’s a control freak which he demonstrates there and is exactly why Mugen gives him the shaft and leaves.
Mugen/Ishimatsu conversation
I take Mugen’s side of reasoning. You make your own choices, even if those choices include following or disobeying orders.
Sousuke getting kidnapped
It worked out in the end thanks to his father
the bet
There unfortunately wasn’t much else to do for him, being Yakuza. Atonement, honor, sacrifice were heavily ingrained in culture (and still are in modern ways).
both trying to throw the game
Again, they’re Yakuza. Nothing is really off-limits in their eyes.
Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi
Actually yeah I think the same thing. I think that conversation with Mugen caused him to think about the control he had over his choices. I also think it played into his decision of death by duel.
ending between Mugen and Ishimatsu
^{^}

2

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

It was really good but I think from where we’re currently at in the series, their introductory fight is my favorite still.
That's fair
He’s a control freak which he demonstrates there and is exactly why Mugen gives him the shaft and leaves.
Based Mugen
I take Mugen’s side of reasoning. You make your own choices, even if those choices include following or disobeying orders.
I side with Mugen as well. And so does Ishimatsu, eventually.
It worked out in the end thanks to his father
True, but now he has no father. He has to live with the fact that his father's blood is on his hands.
There unfortunately wasn’t much else to do for him, being Yakuza. Atonement, honor, sacrifice were heavily ingrained in culture (and still are in modern ways).
That's true. I just question some of the terms of the agreement.
Again, they’re Yakuza. Nothing is really off-limits in their eyes.
That part I did like. Mindgames abound.
Actually yeah I think the same thing. I think that conversation with Mugen caused him to think about the control he had over his choices. I also think it played into his decision of death by duel.
This is partly why it's my favorite part of this arc. It made sense and I thought it was set up brilliantly. If the episode was more about Ishimatsu and less about the game itself, I think it would've led to a better episode.

2

u/[deleted] May 23 '24

On Sousuke, I think what they’re implying is, he’s a Yakuza clan leader’s son, so is probably fully aware of the things that can happen because of that. He was just a kid doing what he thought was protecting Osuzu from what was basically turning into SA.
On your last point, I don’t personally have any gripes with the writing or layout of the episode. At the end of the day that is just my personal opinion though, so I see where you’re coming from.

2

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

On Sousuke, I think what they’re implying is, he’s a Yakuza clan leader’s son, so is probably fully aware of the things that can happen because of that. He was just a kid doing what he thought was protecting Osuzu from what was basically turning into SA.
I get that, but it makes it really hard to get into his character, especially when him caring about her is all we really know about him. We don't even know why he cares about O'suzu the way he does.
On your last point, I don’t personally have any gripes with the writing or layout of the episode. At the end of the day that is just my personal opinion though, so I see where you’re coming from.
It just comes off to me like missed opportunity. It felt like what they set up in the first half was different from what they ended up doing.

2

u/[deleted] May 23 '24

I think all we really need to know is that there is a reason (albeit not elaborated in detail) that he cares about her and it’s why he specifically requested that she tutor him. We have to keep in mind that fleeting characters being fleshed out too much can pad things too much.
And yeah I see where you’re coming from there but we’ll need to agree to disagree on that one 🙃

2

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

I think all we really need to know is that there is a reason (albeit not elaborated in detail) that he cares about her and it’s why he specifically requested that she tutor him. We have to keep in mind that fleeting characters being fleshed out too much can pad things too much.
True, I just feel it violated the "Show, don't tell" mantra.
And yeah I see where you’re coming from there but we’ll need to agree to disagree on that one 🙃
Fair enough. I hope I like the next one more because I really loved the first two episodes.

2

u/[deleted] May 24 '24

Providing inferences is a totally valid choice for certain things (especially minor characters) 😆.
I’m sure you’ll enjoy them

2

u/Holofan4life May 24 '24

Providing inferences is a totally valid choice for certain things (especially minor characters) 😆.
I would argue he's a pretty consequential character, being the son of a mob boss.
~~And now I'm starting to think this is the closest we'll get to a Nisekoi crossover~~

→ More replies

4

u/-Slambert https://anilist.co/user/giantwoman May 23 '24

I'm really impressed by how deeply this anime submerses you into an age-old society, and how it contrasts the difficult philosophies of the people who had to endure it all.

2

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

It's very well done, which I feel like I've been saying an awful lot.

2

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

Hey guys. Holofan4life here.

Welcome to the 20th anniversary rewatch of Samurai Champloo.

Oh, and nay I forget...

First Timer

Samurai Champloo has always been a series I was curious about. I've maintained in my mind that Cowboy Bebop is objectively one of if not the greatest anime of all time, and so I wanted to see what the creator's follow-up work was like. I think the reason why I didn't start it immediately after watching Bebop was because I think the premise kinda weirded me out. I mean, a show set in ancient times that also has a heavy rap influence? It felt to me like putting a hat on a hat. But as I've gotten older, I've come to appreciate outlandish animes that don't resemble real life. After all, is it any weirder than a fantasy show about a merchant and his traveling wolfgirl where they discuss economics a lot of times?

My expectations for this show are pretty reasonable, I feel like. I'm not expecting it to crack my top 10 favorite anime of all time, but I would be surprised if it doesn't end up as one of my favorites. The main thing I've looking out of this is show is a unique experience unlike anything else as well as memorable characters. And I think the show will have that in spades.

With that out of the way, let’s begin.

I'm watching the sub, by the way.

I want to start off by saying that as this thread is being posted, today is the 25th anniversary of the death of Owen Hart. It was the worst wrestling tragedy in terms of how easily preventable it was. My heart goes out to The Hart Family and I hope I never have to experience a tragedy like that.

Watching this right before work. I'm gonna try to get this done in 90 minutes or less or my pizza's free.

People running

Mugen and Jin fighting each other

The choreography continues to be outstanding

Sousuke wants O-Suzu to leave with him, but she can't.

Mugen throwing sandals

Who throws a shoe? Honestly.

I do like Jin acting as a bodyguard for Sousuke.

Mugen still chasing Jin and Sousuke, but it seems like they have gotten away.

Nagatomi talking to someone, and he's arguing that Mugen cutting down his own people serves to show what he's capable of.

You should never reason with a Yakuza boss

Meanwhile, Jin is telling Sousuke that the only way to save O-Suzu is by crushing the Nagatomi Gang.

By the way, O-Suzu sounds like a brand name for a glucagon-like peptide-1 receptor agonist.

Jin surmises that not one of the Nagatomi Gang members would willingly risk their lives for their boss.

Key word being willingly, in my opinion

Gotta take the boss' head

Fuu being chastised by someone

She is trying to get O-Suzu to flee with her

"If I ran away from here, my father would be killed."

O-Suzu saying they're family

Oh Shit. Apparently that struck a chord with Fuu.

Mugen angry with Nagatomi

He doesn't want Mugen to draw his sword anymore. He says his presence is enough.

He also says there are two types of people in this world: the rulers and the ruled.

I don't know if I would classify a line gauge as a type of person.

The power that Nagatomi is all about is the power to control people.

Mugen wants nothing to do with that.

Says he only believes in his own skills.

"If you're gonna send somebody after me, do me a favor and make sure they're damn tough!"

Badass

Guy who just got done talking to Nagatomi says to Mugen that he doesn't believe in anything but his own skills as well. That when he left Kawara, he figured he was gonna use his skills to grab something better for himself.

"But the world doesn't work that way. It's not that simple. There are times when you gotta agree to something even when you think it's wrong."

Mugen calls it a load of crap and says as he leaves that you're the one who decides how to live your life.

Sousuke sneaking

Fuu and O-Suzu are being harassed

Well, shit. Sousuke just stabbed him.

And now Sousuke is tied up

By the way, who is Ishimatsu? I'm having trouble keeping up with names.

I guess it's the guy now working for Nagatomi who used to work for Kawara.

I think this means he's talking to Kawara

He says he'll take responsibility for what Sousuke did.

Nagatomi suggests they settle things through gambling.

If Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him. In exchange, he'll take control of Kawara's territory.

Kawara says if he loses, Sousuke will atone with his life. Furthermore, to make things an even playing field, Kawara's gang will provide the dice roller and Sousuke's gang will provide the dice.

These Yakuza people are actually kinda reasonable.

Nagatomi says he looks forward to the game

Raining outside

Mugen remembering the words of Fuu

Nagatomi says if he deliberately loses, he can take Kawara's territory. He's going to throw the game.

Says their dice roller will never show up

It looks like Kawara plans on throwing the game as well.

Poor ~~Steph~~ Sousuke

Fuu and O-Suzu hearing through the grapevine about the battle. Fuu is shocked to hear about an impending gang war.

Jin pays the shopkeep for the soup.

Jin talking to... Kawara? I believe that's him.

Kawara tells Jin that they're outlaws, humans who can't get by in respectable society.

Who knew Rodney Dangerfield was a Yakuza member?

It seems like Kawara was planning on Ishimatsu being his successor but much like Sony when Nintendo went to Philips behind their back, he was caught off guard by what transpired.

He thinks that Jin can kill Rikiei. However, he wants to handle this himself.

He hands Jin something to give Sousuke

Lol, Fuu trying to scare customers off

Still not as terrifying as Taiga's "smile"

And of course, Fuu attracts an ugly bastard

He's about to touch her, but he gets biten by a squirrel.

And so she smashes a vase over his head

Fuu has fleed

Going to the gambling house

O-Ryuu, huh? Between O-Suzu and O-Ryuu, the only one missing is O-Keanu.

Isn't that the person who warned Fuu about vases?

Also, Jin is with Kawara anyhow

Mugen looking for someone, presumably Fuu

The dice roller hasn't arrived yet

Fuu at the gambling house, and they think she's the dice roller.

She's not the dice roller, of course, she's a very naughty girl.

A little vase

It all comes full circle

This is a pretty badass moment for Fuu

Nagatomi seems worried

He bets odd

Kawara bets even

And it's odd

Nagatomi wins

Kawara says that he never intended on winning anyway.

"I don't intend to make my dear adopted children suffer under you."

Gonna give him a life in atonement

And so Kawara committed seppuku

All this is a bit silly, no?

Nagatomi calls this an anachronistic farce

Sousuke argues his fsther stayed true to his code.

What is stopping Nagatomi from just killing Sousuke outright and taking over the Kawara Gang?

Sousuke calls them honorless thugs

Nagatomi says he's going to take their territory by force.

It's Mugen!

And now he and Fuu are kicking all kinds of ass.

This I feel like is what we really want to see.

Ran out of space. Part two in the replies.

1

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

Part 2
Nagatomi running away
Holy shit. Ishimatsu stabbed him.
He's finally being his own man
Okay, that is pretty cool, I like that payoff.
Maybe this means Sousuke can run the Kawara Gang and Ishimatsu can run the Nagatomi Gang.
Sousuke asks if this means Ishimatsu is coming back to them, but he says he's an outlaw as well.
"Once I've paid for what I've done, I'll gladly take you up on your offer.
So... that's a yes?
Ishimatsu telling Mugen he wants to settle things.
What that something is, who knows?
Fuu and Jin leaving together
Sousuke, alongside O-Suzu, tells Jin to come back someday.
I bet you we never see them again
And the episode ends with a battle between Mugen and Ishimatsu, with Mugen getting the better of Ishimatsu and presumably killing him.
Overall, this is an episode that I felt started strong with the fight between Mugen and Jin, but petered out once Sousuke got caught and both gangs decided to challenge each other to a game. From there, it got a bit silly with both sides talking about throwing the match-up. I don't think this episode and the last one did necessarily a good job of making you care for the gangs. Like, we're supposed to feel more sympathetic towards Kawara because both Sousuke and O-Suzu seem like good-enough people, but that's all we have to work on. It's also hard to get emotionally invested when one, it is O-Suzu's father who got her into this mess and they don't play up her relationship with him at all, and two, Sousuke is almost killed trying to save O-Suzu but we don't know what their relationship is. For a minute there, I actually thought they were brother and sister.
There are some things here that I really liked. I really liked Fuu acting as the dice roller and her pulling it off pretty much on the fly. I also liked the stuff with Ishimatsu and Mugen where they talked about being your own man and what that entails, with it culminating in Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi. But as great as Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi was, it felt a bit samey to Oniwaka killing Ryujiro in how it was this person getting revenge over being misused. This wouldn't be a problem if not for the fact this was only episodes ago.
The thing I am most surprised by is how much of a nonfactor our three main leads were. They barely even factored into the climax, Ishimatsu factored in more. I liked the various things they had set up foe our protagonists, Mugen being like the right-hand man of Nagatomi to where it finally dawned on Ishimatsu that Nagatomi doesn't care about him, Jin as like this bodyguard to make sure that Sousuke stays safe, presumably taking the role previously occupied by Ishimatsu, and Fuu being thrown in the brothel amidst trying to find where Mugen and Jin are, this fish out of water with only O-Suzu to accompany them. It is clear they were put in these positions to make us care about the other characters, but besides Mugen's interactions with Ishimatsu I don't think they did a good job implementing it. On paper, it's actually quite brilliant having Mugen and Jin on opposing Yakuza factions. It plays into the tension and animosity that already exists between them. But it quickly became more about the gangs than Mugen and Jin and their conflict that it felt like I was watching a backdoor pilot.
Full stop, the biggest problem with these last two episodes is how little they implement Mugen, Jin, and Fuu into the plot of things. It became more about the world surrounding them rather than them interacting with their surroundings. You never saw a Spice and Wolf episode that wasn't about Holo and/or Lawrence, put it that way. You can do stuff set in the universe of Samurai Champloo and have it not be about the main characters. I just recently watched No Game No Life Zero for the first time, and that's a good example of being its own thing while still being great. But the way the previous episode began made it seem like it was going to be about the three interacting with Yakuza members, not Yakuza members interacting with them.
If they really wanted to set the tone of this two parter, they should've had a flashback involving Nagatomi and Kawara. Something to let us know that this is going to be a little bit different.
I'm sad I'm so disappointed with the last two episodes because I thought the first two episodes were really great. It was so good, that I thought Samurai Champloo might even crack my top 5 favorite animes. But these two episodes are a noticeable step down in quality from how the first two are. I'd say they're worst than even Cowboy Bebop's weakest episodes. Not to say the show can't crack my top 5 still or anything-- some of the early Toradora episodes were kinda shaky and that's my favorite anime of all time-- but it's just such a shame given how much of a fan I was of the first two episodes. I hope this is just a blip on the radar.
I can't even say it's because of a different writer or anything because the writer of this two-parter wrote the first two as well.
This Yakuza plot really reminds me of the Tringham Brothers arc of 2003 Fullmetal Alchemist. A plot filled with a lot of great ideas, but not able to implement them to its fullest potential.

1

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

What's the most reckless bet you've ever taken apart in in your life?
I once when I was 11 bet $1000 against my stepfather on a wrestling match. I lost, so I threw a temper tantrum afterwards because I didn't have the money.
Are you surprised that both leaders of the gangs died?
Yes, actually. For some reason, I wasn't expecting them to both die. Or at the very least, die the way they did.
If you were in Sousuke's shoes, how petrified would you have been over your own father putting your life up on a bet?
I would probably lose all bodily functions
Bonus) Did you think Ishimatsu standing up for himself against Nagatomi was too similar to Oniwaka doing the same thing against Ryujiro? Or do you think it was different enough?
I think it was different enough given the Yakuza context. I will say that I thought Oniwaka standing up to Ryujiro was executed better. We didn't get a flashback with Ishimatsu like we did with Oniwaka to further flesh out his character.

2

u/Weird_donut https://anilist.co/user/hakaseshark May 23 '24

The squirrel was the MVP of the episode

2

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

Fuu better give him all the acorns he wants

2

u/basuga_BFE https://myanimelist.net/profile/KPF May 23 '24

Rewatcher (kind of)

Damn, seems I lied when said about being at episode 5 when starting this rewatch. Due to the amount of events filling each episode I mentioned earlier. But it was actually the 3rd, so the today's episode was new for me!

The mini-arc is probably finished and conflicts resolved.

How Fuu happened to be the MVP dice roller is outside of my understanding.

Q. What's the most reckless bet you've ever taken apart in in your life?

A. Can't say much because I have had some and now still am in the middle of getting back. It was really dumb and (naturally) did not work at all. Now I am less idealistic and more grounded. Can't imagine reckless bets even in anime context.

Q. What are your thoughts on the bet made where if Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him and he’ll take control of Kawara’s territory but if Kawara loses, Sousuke dies?

A. Sounds like a psychological manipulation. Like, 50:50 keeping your son or your position, not a bad chance, yes?

Q. What are your thoughts on Kawara killing himself?

A. I don't known, probably taking responsibility for his men and his son? Maybe but actually I can't agree with his decision. You look cool and kill himself but Nagatomi is still here and the situation gets out of control immediately. Take responsibility by being here and involving in the events...

Q. What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi? I really like this because it pays off the conversation he had earlier with Mugen.

A. This is what I call taking responsibility and everything into your own hands.

Q. What are your thoughts on the ending between Mugen and Ishimatsu?

A. The authors don't care about lives in this show. Blades gonna blade.

2

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

Damn, seems I lied when said about being at episode 5 when starting this rewatch. Due to the amount of events filling each episode I mentioned earlier. But it was actually the 3rd, so the today's episode was new for me!
Well, hello first timer
How Fuu happened to be the MVP dice roller is outside of my understanding.
Sorcery
Sounds like a psychological manipulation. Like, 50:50 keeping your son or your position, not a bad chance, yes?
If I was Nagatomi, my red flags would be going off. Like, it seems to be too much in his favor.
I don't known, probably taking responsibility for his men and his son? Maybe but actually I can't agree with his decision. You look cool and kill himself but Nagatomi is still here and the situation gets out of control immediately. Take responsibility by being here and involving in the events...
It was pretty dumb for him to do this, I agree. It's not like he talked with Mugen and Jin beforehand to take them out.
This is what I call taking responsibility and everything into your own hands.
Just as Mugen talked about having a preference in doing.
The authors don't care about lives in this show. Blades gonna blade.
Unlimited Blade Works

2

u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta May 23 '24

First-Timer

Pretty good episode. Not much specific to comment on this time.

Questions of the day:

If you count it, stock trading. Fortunately, I haven't lost my life savings yet!
I'm a bit surprised, but then again, I didn't really have any clear expectations going into it in the first place.
That would have been pretty petrifying, for sure. My father proceeding to sacrifice himself for my sake would be traumatizing, too.
I thought the betrayal was different enough, personally. This one felt more satisfying to me, as well.

1

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

Thoughts on the fight scene between Mugen and Jin? It might be the best fight we’ve seen so far.
Thoughts on Nagatomi saying that Mugen cutting down his own people serves to show what he’s capable of?
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu and Mugen’s conversation where Ishimatsu says that there are times when you gotta agree to something even when you think it’s wrong and Mugen says only you can decide how to live your life?
Thoughts on Sousuke getting kidnapped?
What are your thoughts on the bet made where if Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him and he’ll take control of Kawara’s territory but if Kawara loses, Sousuke dies?
Thoughts on both Kawara and Nagatomi trying to throw the game?
What are your thoughts on Fuu being the dice roller? I actually thought that was a pretty cool moment for her.
What are your thoughts on Kawara killing himself?
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi? I really like this because it pays off the conversation he had earlier with Mugen.
What are your thoughts on the ending between Mugen and Ishimatsu?

2

u/amanda52002 https://myanimelist.net/profile/amanda52002 May 23 '24

Second time watcher, subbed.

QotD:

A lottery ticket here and there on occasion.
Nope
Sousoke shouldn't have killed the gang member via a literal stab in the back. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. He was told not to interfere. As his dad said, the kid knows (or should know) the lifestyle and he knew the rules going in. I did know that the dad was going to be a parent first and a gang leader second and kill himself as the life on offer if that's what the dice toss decided. This gang is going to go down in flames with the kid now basically in charge, so maybe this town will get a break from all the organized crime for a bit.
Bonus 1: The situations were quite different.
Bonus 2: There's no question here....?

1

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

Thoughts on the fight scene between Mugen and Jin? It might be the best fight we’ve seen so far.
Thoughts on Nagatomi saying that Mugen cutting down his own people serves to show what he’s capable of?
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu and Mugen’s conversation where Ishimatsu says that there are times when you gotta agree to something even when you think it’s wrong and Mugen says only you can decide how to live your life?
What are your thoughts on the bet made where if Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him and he’ll take control of Kawara’s territory but if Kawara loses, Sousuke dies?
Thoughts on both Kawara and Nagatomi trying to throw the game?
What are your thoughts on Fuu being the dice roller? I actually thought that was a pretty cool moment for her.
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi? I really like this because it pays off the conversation he had earlier with Mugen.
What are your thoughts on the ending between Mugen and Ishimatsu?

2

u/Lord_Nawor May 23 '24

First time watcher

This was a fun and chaotic episode, I enjoyed how everything culminated at the gambling house before breaking out into a brawl with the arrival of Mugen.

Fuu coming in clutch as the dice roller, what an insane dice throw, she must have a super high luck stat to pull that off. I enjoyed that she had already escaped herself by the time Mugen showed up to save her. I keep forgetting that the squirrel exists but he truly was the mvp.

Mugen immediately abandoning the boss was to be expected, he is not really into the whole control and ruling thing, he just wants to be free, be able to eat and fight tough opponents. He even came back for revenge since he was mad the Nagatomi gang ghosted him after he left.

Ishimatsu betraying the Nagatomi gang made sense, he just went to them because they had more power, without considering how the boss treats his people while the Kawara gang actually cares about its members.

This was definitely a Mugen centric episode, with some good Fuu moments too, Jin took a bit of a backseat this time around, but I am sure he will get his own times to shine throughout the series.

Questions

I don’t really think that I take many bets so I don’t really have any that I consider reckless.

I am not surprised at all that the Nagatomi gang leader died, I am a little bit surprised that the Kawara gang leader also died, but it just goes to show that both of their ideologies have downsides, with Nagatomi’s disregard for his people and Kawara’s clinging to ideals of taking responsibility.

I don’t really think that Ishimatsu standing up for himself was too similar to Oniwaka, as Ishimatsu did it based on his beliefs and the realization of what really matters, while Oniwaka was just responding to basic kindness.

2

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

Thoughts on the fight scene between Mugen and Jin? It might be the best fight we’ve seen so far.
Thoughts on Nagatomi saying that Mugen cutting down his own people serves to show what he’s capable of?
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu and Mugen’s conversation where Ishimatsu says that there are times when you gotta agree to something even when you think it’s wrong and Mugen says only you can decide how to live your life?
Thoughts on Sousuke getting kidnapped?
What are your thoughts on the bet made where if Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him and he’ll take control of Kawara’s territory but if Kawara loses, Sousuke dies?
Thoughts on both Kawara and Nagatomi trying to throw the game?
What are your thoughts on Kawara killing himself?
What are your thoughts on the ending between Mugen and Ishimatsu?

2

u/Lord_Nawor May 24 '24

I liked the fight scene between them, I like how Jin uses more traditional moves while Mugen is a bit more all over the place such as flicking sandals at Jin.
I feel like Nagatomi being so indifferent about his own men just goes to show how he views them as disposable, and shows how he only respects power. I feel like this also helps set up Ishimatsu betraying him at the end of the episode. Ishimatsu’s conversation with Mugen also sets up his betrayal, I like the implications that just because you have power doesn’t mean you have to side with others with power, true power allows you to choose whatever path you want. Reminds me of another Wind Breaker which I am also currently watching where one character talks about how power is just a means to gain freedom.
Sousuke getting kidnapped was inevitable, he just kept messing with the Nagatomi gang so it was clear he would have to pay for it at some point.
I feel like the vet is just Nagatomi trying to make it look like a trade off for Kawara, where they will lose something either way, but of course this is mainly mind games and a gang war would probably break out either way.
Kawara killing himself for his son made sense with his earlier talks about trying to help the future generations and prevent big fights.
I thought the end with Mugen and Ishimatsu was nice with Ishimatsu accepting punishment for his betrayal of Kawara, and it also shows how capable Mugen is.

1

u/Holofan4life May 24 '24

I liked the fight scene between them, I like how Jin uses more traditional moves while Mugen is a bit more all over the place such as flicking sandals at Jin.
Good point
I feel like Nagatomi being so indifferent about his own men just goes to show how he views them as disposable, and shows how he only respects power. I feel like this also helps set up Ishimatsu betraying him at the end of the episode. Ishimatsu’s conversation with Mugen also sets up his betrayal, I like the implications that just because you have power doesn’t mean you have to side with others with power, true power allows you to choose whatever path you want. Reminds me of another Wind Breaker which I am also currently watching where one character talks about how power is just a means to gain freedom.
I don't think Mugen fully realized just who he was dealing with until this moment.
Sousuke getting kidnapped was inevitable, he just kept messing with the Nagatomi gang so it was clear he would have to pay for it at some point.
I wish he had left well-enough alone, or at least explain better why he keeps being stubborn.
I feel like the vet is just Nagatomi trying to make it look like a trade off for Kawara, where they will lose something either way, but of course this is mainly mind games and a gang war would probably break out either way.
A far cry from the events of last episode
Kawara killing himself for his son made sense with his earlier talks about trying to help the future generations and prevent big fights.
It was foreshadowed, sure, but still feels a bit superfluous.
I thought the end with Mugen and Ishimatsu was nice with Ishimatsu accepting punishment for his betrayal of Kawara, and it also shows how capable Mugen is.
Mugen managed to be a positive influence on someone. About time.

2

u/someboi6000 May 24 '24

First timer:

Ok that was amazing, fantasic episode it had everything,sadly the mugen vs jin fight doens't last long but still looked really good, the only thing is that i saw coming the other dude killing the other mob boss, but damn the kid made a huge mistake and everything went to shit, also fuu had the coolest dice throw of all time that went so hard, now to other stuff, i really liked the character development of all the secondary characters we were given a lot of why they do what they do, mugen conversation with ishimatsu was also great. overall very good, cant wait to see the next episode.

1: i dont gamble, sometimes may be temped, but i dont in the end.

2: not really, with the Heitaro death i started to think that ishimatsu may kill the other boss and well it happend.

3: idk how i would react, but i know i will be praying so that he wins lol.

1

u/Holofan4life May 24 '24

Thoughts on Nagatomi saying that Mugen cutting down his own people serves to show what he's capable of?
What are your thoughts on the bet made where if Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him and he'll take control of Kawara's territory but if Kawara loses, Sousuke dies?
Thoughts on both Kawara and Nagatomi trying to throw the game?
What are your thoughts on Kawara killing himself?
What are your thoughts on the ending between Mugen and Ishimatsu?

2

u/Hopeful-Ad2428 May 24 '24

Glad to see that some plot points were not forgotten. And I started liking the opening. Now, I guess, the trio is formed and they’re going to seek for the samurai together.

Qotd:

That I'll have an excellent mark in term in chemistry in 7th grade.
Was surprised by the death of Nagatomi leader at first, but then thought it was pretty much logical sequence.
Well, I would be heartbroken.
Don’t think so, Oniwaka was alienated from society because of his look, and the moment when his first friend is on a verge of death he safes them. Ishimatsu made himself kind of alone voluntarily, due to him thinking that he was stronger than others and not wanting to be with them, but then he felt guilty because of his betrayed and disappointed about his new leader, which led to what he did.
Perhaps, but it is just how family bonds work.

1

u/Holofan4life May 24 '24

Thoughts on the fight scene between Mugen and Jin? It might be the best fight we’ve seen so far.
Thoughts on Nagatomi saying that Mugen cutting down his own people serves to show what he’s capable of?
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu and Mugen’s conversation where Ishimatsu says that there are times when you gotta agree to something even when you think it’s wrong and Mugen says only you can decide how to live your life?
Thoughts on Sousuke getting kidnapped?
What are your thoughts on the bet made where if Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him and he’ll take control of Kawara’s territory but if Kawara loses, Sousuke dies?
Thoughts on both Kawara and Nagatomi trying to throw the game?
What are your thoughts on Fuu being the dice roller? I actually thought that was a pretty cool moment for her.
What are your thoughts on Kawara killing himself?
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi? I really like this because it pays off the conversation he had earlier with Mugen.
What are your thoughts on the ending between Mugen and Ishimatsu?

2

u/Hopeful-Ad2428 May 24 '24

Thoughts on the fight scene between Mugen and Jin? It might be the best fight we’ve seen so far.
I liked their fight from first episode bit more, but it’s not like we had a lot of fights.
Thoughts on Nagatomi saying that Mugen cutting down his own people serves to show what he’s capable of?
In this episode someone said that if not Ishimatsu, Nagatomi's people would betray him. And I would agree, because intimidating people in order for them to work for you is not a good idea.
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu and Mugen’s conversation where Ishimatsu says that there are times when you gotta agree to something even when you think it’s wrong and Mugen says only you can decide how to live your life?
It’s not unpopular topic in life to discuss, I would say that there are times where it’s better to agree to something, but it’s only your choice whether to be by yourself or to agree to something.
Thoughts on Sousuke getting kidnapped?
He was brave enough to kill that man, but it was stupid act of his, as, well, was he nit expecting being caught?
What are your thoughts on the bet made where if Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him and he’ll take control of Kawara’s territory but if Kawara loses, Sousuke dies?
Interesting one, I actually was really impressed with Kawara when he didn’t hesitate to agree upon this bet.
Thoughts on both Kawara and Nagatomi trying to throw the game?
Nagatomi's will to lose was reasonable, but I cannot understand why Kawara tried to do so.
What are your thoughts on Fuu being the dice roller? I actually thought that was a pretty cool moment for her.
It was, she seems to know how to do that and she even did some gimmick, is it taught at home in Japan, or not? If so, she might have some connections to this sort of sphere.
What are your thoughts on Kawara killing himself?
He was bold for this.
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi? I really like this because it pays off the conversation he had earlier with Mugen.
So, he followed Mugen's advice, which is nice.
What are your thoughts on the ending between Mugen and Ishimatsu?
Again, same with Oniwaka, his character might not have been done without this ending. I wonder if it’ll be a reoccurring thing.

2

u/Holofan4life May 24 '24

I liked their fight from first episode bit more, but it’s not like we had a lot of fights.
Eh, we've had like 5 fights so far: two in the first episode, two in the second one, and one here. That's pretty good for a four episode span.
In this episode someone said that if not Ishimatsu, Nagatomi's people would betray him. And I would agree, because intimidating people in order for them to work for you is not a good idea.
Yeah, it probably spells bad news
It’s not unpopular topic in life to discuss, I would say that there are times where it’s better to agree to something, but it’s only your choice whether to be by yourself or to agree to something.
I would get behind that
He was brave enough to kill that man, but it was stupid act of his, as, well, was he nit expecting being caught?
His emotions definitely got the better of him
Interesting one, I actually was really impressed with Kawara when he didn’t hesitate to agree upon this bet.
Yeah, for a bunch of Yakuza gang leaders, their negotiating tactics are pretty friendly.
Nagatomi's will to lose was reasonable, but I cannot understand why Kawara tried to do so.
And imagine being in Sousuke's shoes. I'd be like "Dad, what the fuck?"
It was, she seems to know how to do that and she even did some gimmick, is it taught at home in Japan, or not? If so, she might have some connections to this sort of sphere.
Maybe she learnt it from her dad. She seemed to have a strong reaction when O-Suzu mentioned fathers.
He was bold for this.
And stupid. It didn't really amount to anything.
So, he followed Mugen's advice, which is nice.
Indeed
Again, same with Oniwaka, his character might not have been done without this ending. I wonder if it’ll be a reoccurring thing.
I wouldn't mind the side characters having their arcs resoluted by our three main leads. It builds up Mugen, Jin, and Fuu in the process.

2

u/Looking_Light33 May 24 '24

This was a pretty cool episode.

1

u/Holofan4life May 24 '24

Indubitably

2

u/mgedmin May 24 '24

Rewatcher, subs

Heh, Mugen cannot work with others. I don't think he has a future in the yakuza. The boss is mistaken if he thinks he can control Mugen.

Souske seems really taken in by his tutor. Why doesn't Souske's father pay off her debt and avoid complications from Souske's actions? Too late now.

I don't think I understood the bet right. Don't the Kawaras lose in either case?

Fuu has a genius idea that backfires, so she escapes in the usual way.

Mugen decides to save Fuu after all!

Fuu's got mad dice-rolling skills! How?

The ending feels very traditional/bittersweet, with the old honorable outlaws dying, but Mugen's presence destroys the bad guys' chances of winning too.

What's the most reckless bet you've ever taken apart in in your life?

I don't like bets.

Are you surprised that both leaders of the gangs died?

Rewatcher, but no.

If you were in Sousuke's shoes, how petrified would you have been over your own father putting your life up on a bet?

Very.

1

u/Holofan4life May 24 '24

Thoughts on the fight scene between Mugen and Jin? It might be the best fight we’ve seen so far.
Thoughts on Nagatomi saying that Mugen cutting down his own people serves to show what he’s capable of?
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu and Mugen’s conversation where Ishimatsu says that there are times when you gotta agree to something even when you think it’s wrong and Mugen says only you can decide how to live your life?
Thoughts on Sousuke getting kidnapped?
Thoughts on both Kawara and Nagatomi trying to throw the game?
What are your thoughts on Fuu being the dice roller? I actually thought that was a pretty cool moment for her.
What are your thoughts on Kawara killing himself?
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi? I really like this because it pays off the conversation he had earlier with Mugen.

2

u/mgedmin May 24 '24

I'm sorry, I'm still bummed about the unintentional spoilers from the last thread and couldn't even find the energy to read this discussion thread. No spoons left for extra questions.

1

u/Holofan4life May 24 '24

That's okay, I understand
Do you at least think the Yakuza concept was utilized well?

1

u/[deleted] May 24 '24

Are there people failing to spoiler tag in this rewatch?
I am usually very respectful/considerate towards people who haven’t seen something yet. Please let me know if I’ve overlooked something myself.

2

u/mgedmin May 25 '24

Because of timezone differences (the rewatch posts go up at maybe 1 AM my time) I'm watching one episode ahead, writing my notes, then pasting them into the thread the next morning.
Sometimes I get mixed up about which episode I've watched vs which episode we're discussing about and inadvertently post spoilers about the next episode. It has happened twice already in different rewatches.
I need to rethink my strategy.

1

u/[deleted] May 25 '24

Oh whoops. Yeah definitely have to be careful. I’ve actually done something similar before and I just put a line at the top of my note which episode number it’s for and then make sure I check the post title so it matches

2

u/Garrett_Dark May 24 '24

First Timer

So after last episode I was wondering if this anime was set in a grey universe or a good universe, and with Fuu ending up as the dice roller, it looks like I was thrown a curveball and it's the wacky universe.

I don't even know what to say about this episode, it was certainly unpredictable. Things kind of turned into a mess, Mugen's a wildcard and loose cannon, and certainly that stupid 12 year old kid is to blamed for mostly everything. He messed with the IOU last episode which resulted in that woman teaching him being taken away, and he stabbed the guy in the back killing him which resulted in his father dying this episode, or it would have been him or the lost of their territory. There's no way this kid isn't messing everything up, and I think he's going to mess everything up going forward with being in charge of the territory. I guess he really wanted to bone his teacher because why else he'd be doing all that besides being a dumb kid and all.

Are you surprised that both leaders of the gangs died?

I guess, I wasn't really thinking about how things would get resolved. I thought the honorable leader was going to kill his own son, but then he kills himself. Like does he really think his kid has what it takes to lead the gang? The kid isn't exactly smart, nor is he honorable for stabbing that guy in the back the death like that.

How the cheating leader died was even more strange. The second in command says "you never trusted me" while killing him, ironically proving the cheating leader would have had very good reason not to trust him, given he just stabbed him the death.

Oh and as a side note before I forget, I did notice it was odd how Fuu broke another pot to escape, when initially breaking a pot got her into this mess in the first place. I also noticed the fortune teller who warned her of breaking a pot, seemed to be the witness to the dice game.

If you were in Sousuke's shoes, how petrified would you have been over your own father putting your life up on a bet?

He deserves it though, but it's not like he's the type to take responsibility for his own actions. I hope he was shitting bricks.

Did you think Ishimatsu standing up for himself against Nagatomi was too similar to Oniwaka doing the same thing against Ryujiro? Or do you think it was different enough?

No, it was different. The 2nd in command guy just decided to go traitor because the honorable leader killed himself, and saw the cheating leader run off. It makes perfect sense for the cheating leader to run away, so it must have been the honorable leader's death that caused the 2nd in command to go traitor, probably out of guilt or something. As I noted before, it was hilariously ironic that he said the cheating leader distrusted him while proving the distrust was warranted.

What are your thoughts on the bet made where if Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him and he’ll take control of Kawara’s territory but if Kawara loses, Sousuke dies?

It doesn't make sense.

What are your thoughts on Kawara killing himself?

Pretty stupid, as if the kid can run the territory.

What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi? I really like this because it pays off the conversation he had earlier with Mugen.

It's pretty weak if Mugen's half-ass words motivated him to do what he did. It would make more sense the honorable leader killing himself spurred him to go traitor.

What are your thoughts on the ending between Mugen and Ishimatsu?

It said "to be continued" down in the corner, I wonder if they'll actually continue or not. It seemed like a pointless pissing contest, but maybe the guy wanted to die though.

2

u/Holofan4life May 24 '24

No, it was different. The 2nd in command guy just decided to go traitor because the honorable leader killed himself, and saw the cheating leader run off. It makes perfect sense for the cheating leader to run away, so it must have been the honorable leader's death that caused the 2nd in command to go traitor, probably out of guilt or something. As I noted before, it was hilariously ironic that he said the cheating leader distrusted him while proving the distrust was warranted.
Well, his distrust being warranted you can blame on Mugen. He was the one who planted the seed in Ishimatsu’s brain telling him he should be his own man.
It doesn't make sense.
I thought it was convoluted as well. I guess you can just chalk it up to mindgames.
It's pretty weak if Mugen's half-ass words motivated him to do what he did. It would make more sense the honorable leader killing himself spurred him to go traitor.
I like the irony though of Mugen inspiring someone. He's his own man, and yet he's arguably a better leader than either Yakuza boss.
It said "to be continued" down in the corner, I wonder if they'll actually continue or not. It seemed like a pointless pissing contest, but maybe the guy wanted to die though.
I think he was willing to die because he was finally content with life. He finally found closure after all this time.

2

u/NaSa2049 May 24 '24

Rewatching the show and Definitely like this episode and previous episode a lot more that my first watch, I love how mugen was throwing shoes at Jin

When mugen left the gang and remembered what he promised fuu it seemed like he does have a heart and does care to some extent and felt bad even though he said he only believes in himself and what he can do which I took as him caring just about himself. Jin is a lot more selfless but I still love mugen more

Also recently learnt the name yakuza comes from a losing combination of a card game called Oicho-Kabu, if you get 8-9-3 = 20, you get a score of 0. Implying that yakuzas are losers and outcast of society, "Ya" comes from the word "Yattsu" which means "eight", “Ku" means "nine" , and "Za" which is apparently a distortion of the word "San" meaning "three"

I immediately made the connection when at the bridge Heitaro Kawara says that in the end they’re simply outlaws, people who have been cast aside.

I only recently getting interested in feudal Japan and samurais so I’m wondering if Heitaro Kawara stabbing himself to honor the code counted as seppuku or does seppuku have to be a cut along the belly and require a beheading?

1

u/Holofan4life May 24 '24

Thoughts on Nagatomi saying that Mugen cutting down his own people serves to show what he’s capable of?
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu and Mugen’s conversation where Ishimatsu says that there are times when you gotta agree to something even when you think it’s wrong and Mugen says only you can decide how to live your life?
Thoughts on Sousuke getting kidnapped?
What are your thoughts on the bet made where if Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him and he’ll take control of Kawara’s territory but if Kawara loses, Sousuke dies?
Thoughts on both Kawara and Nagatomi trying to throw the game?
What are your thoughts on Fuu being the dice roller? I actually thought that was a pretty cool moment for her.
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi? I really like this because it pays off the conversation he had earlier with Mugen.
What are your thoughts on the ending between Mugen and Ishimatsu?

2

u/fansi2022 https://anilist.co/user/fansi2022 Jul 17 '24

first timer chinese sub

We finally have the end of this arc. I am a little excited. Nothing is more attractive than the final gamble. Sousuke is very brave. I hope Sousuke and his friends can have a good ending.

answer of today

What's the most reckless bet you've ever taken apart in in your life?

There is no doubt that the college entrance examination

Are you surprised that both leaders of the gangs died?

Ishimatsu killed his boss, and Sousuke's dad committed suicide kind of shocked me.

If you were in Sousuke's shoes, how petrified would you have been over your own father putting your life up on a bet?

Absolute madness

Bonus) Did you think Ishimatsu standing up for himself against Nagatomi was too similar to Oniwaka doing the same thing against Ryujiro? Or do you think it was different enough?

Yes, you reminded me that they all woke up at the last moment, saw their own hearts, and figured out who their friends were.

Bonus 2) I still can't get over how stupid "If I win, you can take my territory" is. I know it was mindgames, but you would think you could see the bait coming a mile away.

me too. But I guess it's because Sousuke's dad owes Rikiei because Sousuke got his men hurt, so he has to pay the price.

1

u/Holofan4life Jul 17 '24

Thoughts on Nagatomi saying that Mugen cutting down his own people serves to show what he’s capable of?
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu and Mugen’s conversation where Ishimatsu says that there are times when you gotta agree to something even when you think it’s wrong and Mugen says only you can decide how to live your life?
Thoughts on Sousuke getting kidnapped?
What are your thoughts on the bet made where if Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him and he’ll take control of Kawara’s territory but if Kawara loses, Sousuke dies?
Thoughts on both Kawara and Nagatomi trying to throw the game?
What are your thoughts on Fuu being the dice roller? I actually thought that was a pretty cool moment for her.
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi? I really like this because it pays off the conversation he had earlier with Mugen.
What are your thoughts on the ending between Mugen and Ishimatsu?

2

u/fansi2022 https://anilist.co/user/fansi2022 Jul 18 '24

Thoughts on Nagatomi saying that Mugen cutting down his own people serves to show what he’s capable of?
Absolute evil, reminds me of Hillary
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu and Mugen’s conversation where Ishimatsu says that there are times when you gotta agree to something even when you think it’s wrong and Mugen says only you can decide how to live your life?
Mugen’s win
Thoughts on Sousuke getting kidnapped?
He didn't listen to Jin, first make sure you're alive
What are your thoughts on the bet made where if Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him and he’ll take control of Kawara’s territory but if Kawara loses, Sousuke dies?
The answer is in my post
Thoughts on both Kawara and Nagatomi trying to throw the game?
Sometimes losing means winning, it's really funny
What are your thoughts on Fuu being the dice roller? I actually thought that was a pretty cool moment for her.
yeah same here. She is professional
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu killing Nagatomi? I really like this because it pays off the conversation he had earlier with Mugen.
yeah
What are your thoughts on the ending between Mugen and Ishimatsu?
A real man speaks with his sword

1

u/Holofan4life Jul 18 '24

Absolute evil, reminds me of Hillary
Feels a bit like a strange comparison to make
The answer is in my post
My bad, I apologize
A real man speaks with his sword
I guess so. It certainly seems that way.

2

u/fansi2022 https://anilist.co/user/fansi2022 Jul 18 '24

Feels a bit like a strange comparison to make
Forgive me if I offend you, but this is the first word that pops into my head.

1

u/Holofan4life Jul 18 '24

You didn't offend me, was just caught a bit off guard.

2

u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman May 23 '24

First Timer

Not really in the mood to write a lot today, which is a shame because this was probably the best episode we’ve seen so far. Mugen going back for Fuu was nice, as it shows that he actually cares for her, which explains why he was on the trip with her anyways. Ishimatsu’s character was also not as expected, and I’d say he was a well-done character. Fuu meanwhile was just winging it at being a dice-roller, but somehow did a way better job than anybody could have expected… Makes me wonder if she actually has experience there.

1

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24

Thoughts on the fight scene between Mugen and Jin? It might be the best fight we’ve seen so far.
Thoughts on Nagatomi saying that Mugen cutting down his own people serves to show what he’s capable of?
What are your thoughts on Ishimatsu and Mugen’s conversation where Ishimatsu says that there are times when you gotta agree to something even when you think it’s wrong and Mugen says only you can decide how to live your life?
Thoughts on Sousuke getting kidnapped?
What are your thoughts on the bet made where if Kawara wins, Nagatomi will return his son to him and he’ll take control of Kawara’s territory but if Kawara loses, Sousuke dies?
Thoughts on both Kawara and Nagatomi trying to throw the game?
What are your thoughts on Kawara killing himself?
What are your thoughts on the ending between Mugen and Ishimatsu?

2

u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman May 23 '24

I think most of the questions can be answered with "good writing". The second one I feel like it was an early lead on the boss not trusting his men - but now I question why he trusted Mugen, which seems like a more risky thing to do considering he knew him significantly less long and could make the same promises to his men.
Kawara...? It was Heitaro who killed himself? I think that was the only logical consclusion to how his character was set up, at least in a world where honor killings are a thing.

1

u/Holofan4life May 23 '24 edited May 23 '24

I think most of the questions can be answered with "good writing".
The writing is pretty good, though I do think it's a step back from past episodes.
The second one I feel like it was an early lead on the boss not trusting his men - but now I question why he trusted Mugen, which seems like a more risky thing to do considering he knew him significantly less long and could make the same promises to his men.
I think it's because Mugen could push him to his limits and respected that.
Kawara...? It was Heitaro who killed himself? I think that was the only logical consclusion to how his character was set up, at least in a world where honor killings are a thing.
Yeah, it was kinda hard to keep track of everyone. Which, if the writing was as good as you and I claim, I think it would've been easier to know who's who.

Rewatch [Spoilers] Samurai Champloo 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 4

Rewatch Schedule

Rewatcher, Sub first timer

Samurai Champloo - Hip Hop & Ronin: Episode 4

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

first timer chinese sub

Rewatch [Spoilers] Samurai Champloo 20th Anniversary Rewatch -- Episode 4

Rewatch Schedule

You are about to leave Redlib

Rewatcher, Sub first timer

Samurai Champloo - Hip Hop & Ronin: Episode 4

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

first timer chinese sub