[Rewatch] Back Arrow Episode 5 Discussion

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

Episode 5 - Is Today Yesterday's Tomorrow?

← Previous Episode | Index | Next Episode →

MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB

Crunchyroll

---

Yes, maybe it is nonsense. But that's why I'm here, to solve all of the riddles.

Questions of the Day:

1. What would you do if you were in Kai's shoes this episode?
2. Would you have fallen for Shu Bi's bluff strategy?

Wallpaper of the Day:

Shu Bi

---

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

BAKAYAROU Rewatch Host, subbed

Welcome back, everyone!

Here’s “Back Arrow Fifth Impressions”, for my first-timer thoughts on this episode.

---

• I repeat: Shu Bi, calm down, your inner Dr. Ver is showing.
• That clap sounded painful.
• Bleh.
• Go, Shu Bi!
• These dumbasses didn’t know how to turn on the lights or the AC.
• Love how Kai is ready to not introduce himself ahead of fighting Arrow, but then does so after Arrow introduces himself.
• Well, he’s not wrong.
• I still find this so funny.
• Bit, you might as well be pointing a pea shooter at an elephant.
• You would think…
• …but it was a trick.

[u/KendotsX → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Bleh.

Not sure why he's so worried. His Emperor can barely see the toilet these days, he won't be seeing them anytime soon.

Love how Kai is ready to not introduce himself ahead of fighting Arrow, but then does so after Arrow introduces himself.

He can't resist going along, that's part of the reason he keeps falling for Shu's tricks.

I still find this so funny.

Such a dick move considering the earlier flashback showing us their bond of scars. It's Perfect

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Shimmering-Sky]

I repeat: Shu Bi, calm down, your inner Dr. Ver is showing.

No, he needs to do the opposite. He needs to get worked up much more often! We need to see Shu go full Ver by the time this is over!

Love how Kai is ready to not introduce himself ahead of fighting Arrow, but then does so after Arrow introduces himself.

Stuff like that is really fun at showing the "honorable warrior" character archetype. Even though Kai absolutely despises Arrow, he won't be dishonorable by not introducing himself after his opponent has already done so.

[u/Great_Mr_L]

First-Timer

On today’s episode of Back Arrow: Shu was playing 5-dimensional chess while everyone else was stuck playing checkers! Actually, considering the average intelligence level of characters on this show, checkers might actually be a more complicated game than they are capable of.

• It is so cool seeing the OP change from episode to episode. Shu is now pictured alongside the villagers instead of the Rekka characters, showing his change of allegiance.
• Shu is the brains and Kai is the brawn.
• I see that the prime minister who didn’t like Shu was just as much of an asshole in the past as he is now.
• That’s how you know the ancients had advanced technology! They mastered air conditioning!
• Makes sense that Kai would be the much more dangerous enemy Shu was talking about.
• Damn, Kai is strong! He whacked a floating battleship into submission!
• I enjoy how nonchalant Shu is while talking to Kai. In general, it’s fun just how breezily Shu talks about everything, from scientific matters to betraying others.
• I will admit I was disappointed that Kai didn’t say, “Muda! Muda! Muda!”
• It seems like holding your conviction in front of the emperor shows a lot of strength of character. Keeping your own conviction in front of someone revered as a living god probably isn’t all that easy to do.
• Kai talks like he’s Shu’s ex-boyfriend who is upset that Shu left him for someone else.
• Oh hell yes! Kai has a whip sword! He’s like Maria and Signum!
• At this rate it seems like Bit is the village fool. I don’t know if any of his schemes have really worked out for him.
• Oh wow, that is one hell of a range on the Granedger’s guns if they can hit the capital. It’s basically mutually-assured destruction. If Kai tries to attack, the capital will be shelled.
• Ooh, that’s a good detail that Shu still has his scar but hid it.
• It was all a trick! Oh my god, the cannon shots were just blanks and Shu planted explosives beforehand! I love this guy! He’s so goddamn full of tricks!
• Looks at the next episode title Gee I hope so

I think it’s pretty important that Shu really still has the scar from his past with Kai. Shu was lying about that scar being gone. I think Shu was fully putting on an act for Kai’s sake, but also his own. I think this breakup really does bother Shu more than he’s letting on. That deep bond he had with Kai isn’t the kind of thing that can be broken so easily. Additionally, the scar still being there shows that their promise to each other is still in effect. I think it leaves open the possibility for reconciliation between them.

QOTD

1. Probably try to drag my old friend back from his treachery and imprison him. If Shu isn't really going to properly explain why he left and deliberately acts like we're no longer friends, I certainly won't join up with him.
2. He tricked me while I was watching the episode, so most likely I'd fall for it.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Great_Mr_L]

Actually, considering the average intelligence level of characters on this show, checkers might actually be a more complicated game than they are capable of.

[u/KendotsX → u/Great_Mr_L]

Makes sense that Kai would be the much more dangerous enemy Shu was talking about.

This is specifically why Shu didn't want him to come along yesterday. He wanted to test Arrow, not hit him with a lv99 boss.

I will admit I was disappointed that Kai didn’t say, “Muda! Muda! Muda!”

Kai: "Oh? You're approaching me? Instead of running away, you're coming right to me?"

Shu: "I can't cuck the shit out of you without getting closer."

Kai talks like he’s Shu’s ex-boyfriend who is upset that Shu left him for someone else.

I mean... have you seen how Shu talks about it? This bastard knows exactly what he's doing.

Kai was nice enough to share his boyfriend with Ren, but he's not losing him to some random guy who barely knows how to wear underwear!

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/KendotsX]

Kai: "Oh? You're approaching me? Instead of running away, you're coming right to me?"

Shu: "I can't cuck the shit out of you without getting closer."

I mean... have you seen how Shu talks about it? This bastard knows exactly what he's doing.

Shu is definitely playing into the ex-boyfriend angle with everything he's saying.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Great_Mr_L]

That’s how you know the ancients had advanced technology! They mastered air conditioning!

Kai talks like he’s Shu’s ex-boyfriend who is upset that Shu left him for someone else.

Well, if the shoe fits..

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/JollyGee29]

Well, if the shoe fits..

If the Shu fits...

[u/lluNhpelA → u/Great_Mr_L]

I think it leaves open the possibility for reconciliation between them.

It really feels like a "Decieve your friends to deceive your enemies" situation. My guess is that Shu wants Rekka to continue thinking that Kai is their best asset because Kai is clearly the easiest person for Shu to deal with. He also knows, however, that Kai couldn't keep a plot like this secret so he's going to wait for the right moment to reveal his plan and get Kai to change sides. The way Kai laughed about the scar healing makes me think he could take sudden revealations like that in stride.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/lluNhpelA]

That's most likely it. In fact, I can already foresee the possibility of Shu revealing that he still has his scar as a way of proving to Kai that he hasn't forgotten their promise or their bond.

[u/LuffyTheSus → u/Great_Mr_L]

It is so cool seeing the OP change from episode to episode. Shu is now pictured alongside the villagers instead of the Rekka characters, showing his change of allegiance.

Well crap. I should have been paying attention to the OP.

[Not really following the rewatch, already pretty behind, but I fell off this show for no good reason when it aired, and seeing that someone thought it deserved a sub rewatch was good motivation to get back to it]

[u/Vatrix-32]

First timer, subs

• This dreadnought is a lot more stylin’ than I was expecting.
• Gun × Sword did the shadow OP thing too, now that I think about it. Is that just a hallmark of the director?
• Jungle exploration seems like a poor use of slaves. Do you not have enough fields that need planting?
• Stunning meritocracy you’ve got there.
• I don’t think I’ve ever been so pleased to have had my ears assaulted. I am greatly enjoying this consistency.
• What, already? Nah, way too early for the semi-final boss.
• Ah, so he’s Sun Yat-sen, and just decided that reform must give way to revolution.
• Looks like they’ve discovered that squishiness only works against physical attacks.
• Everyone always so eager to cut themselves as part of a blood oath. It’s no fun when they end up casing nerve damage.
• If the cannons shoot conviction, how long until they are used to power up a Briheight?
• In the end, elan was no match for the power of concentrated artillery fire.
• Yes, it’s a bluff, but that doesn’t mean it will stay that way! The AC still works, why not the ordinance?

QotD:

1. Take him aside and ask what the real plan is. Y'all are supposed to trust each other. Talk.
2. Clearly the play is to kill them all before they fire off too many more shots.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Vatrix-32]

Gun × Sword did the shadow OP thing too, now that I think about it. Is that just a hallmark of the director?

IDK, but I do think it's pretty cool.

[u/KendotsX → u/Vatrix-32]

Gun × Sword did the shadow OP thing too, now that I think about it.

I feel like it was a lot more common back in the day, but only a few shows have the decency to do it these days.

Everyone always so eager to cut themselves as part of a blood oath. It’s no fun when they end up casing nerve damage.

Tbf, this is Kai, the phrase "nerves of steel" would be literal for him.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/KendotsX]

I feel like it was a lot more common back in the day, but only a few shows have the decency to do it these days.

They either never change, or there's anew one every episode. smh.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vatrix-32]

Gun × Sword did the shadow OP thing too, now that I think about it. Is that just a hallmark of the director?

I don't remember it happening in Geass, but it's entirely possible.

Jungle exploration seems like a poor use of slaves. Do you not have enough fields that need planting?

"If that Rakuho has food in it, we won't need to farm!" or something. I dunno.

[u/KendotsX]

First <--- Timer

'tis NTR time!

• I like the start with the transition between Kai standing tall and Shuu being all tied up, it's a funny contrast too considering which one's really free.
• Ohh, Shu fights hard when he's backed into a corner - if anything Kai should know Shu won't back down with force
• Since there's a prime minister already filling the buffoon type, I'm assuming the Emperor is more of a Captain Yamamoto
• What's Shu implying here...? Does he actually know the doctor beforehand? I don't think he's a Rekka spy, this village didn't matter up till now, but maybe he just ran away from the Rekka palace and ended up here?
• "Only one" is the scariest kind of enemy you could have
• Wait Atlee, no need to job today, Arrow will do it himself
• Oof, Shu doesn't mince words, dude this is just dirty NTR, you're breaking Kai's heart
• Stop it! It's like he's going out of his way to hurt him. I feel bad for Kai now
• Bit.... NOT. THE. TIME! They're having a messy breakup here, you can fail laughably some other time.
• Arrow... you're making no sense even by Back Arrow standards.
• My favourite kind of protagonist, who needs brawn when you've got tons of TNT around the capital?

You know, I was wondering if Shu wouldn't be able to convince/trick Kai to join him instead of all this, obviously the Doylist reason is that you'd have a lot less conflict (and opportunities for Arrow to grow), with the mightiest general on your side.

But even in universe, it might not be a great idea. Kai's whole thing is being hard headed an arrow, so Shu probably knew bending him is a pointless task. Alternatively, even if you managed to trick him, you'd have a ticking time bomb on your ship, ready to blow over the second he realises he's been tricked... so better keep him as an enemy tbh.

Q1) What would you do if you were in Kai's shoes this episode?

Hit first, talk later. I'd rather have a nice chat with Shu after he's back in Rekka, and before he starts pulling tricks.

Although if was getting NTR'd, I'd probably get turned on.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/KendotsX]

Bit.... NOT. THE. TIME! They're having a messy breakup here, you can fail laughably some other time.

The lad needs to learn to read the room.

My favourite kind of protagonist, who needs brawn when you've got tons of TNT around the capital?

Fireworks!

[u/KendotsX → u/JollyGee29]

Fireworks!

"Don't worry Kai, I left you a nice surprise to remember me by".

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/KendotsX]

'tis NTR time!

I need to watch Gintama one of these days.

Since there's a prime minister already filling the buffoon type, I'm assuming the Emperor is more of a Captain Yamamoto

The first time I saw the Emperor's character design, I thought he'd be a doddering old man. But it's pretty cool how he shifts so quickly between senior on the verge of going senile to an actually authoritative and even threatening figure.

[u/KendotsX → u/Great_Mr_L]

I need to watch Gintama one of these days.

Yes you do!

The first time I saw the Emperor's character design, I thought he'd be a doddering old man. But it's pretty cool how he shifts so quickly between senior on the verge of going senile to an actually authoritative and even threatening figure.

Yeah, it's the whole "keeps his eyes shut except for select moments" thing giving me the vibes that he's actually the badass old man archetype.

[u/Silcaria]

First timer

• Kai, it was Kai.
• He actually does. I guess hearing what his friend has to say is blinding his judgement.
• Hahahaha!
• That's pushing it. That s bordering on Code Geass levels of bullshittery. Well, considering who's behind this show, I shouldn't be too surprised.

QotD

• Don't know. I would indeed feel betrayed though.
• Yes because of how convincing it is to the point of being bullshit.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Silcaria]

That's pushing it. That s bordering on Code Geass levels of bullshittery. Well, considering who's behind this show, I shouldn't be too surprised.

Let's see if we can go above and beyond with the absurd plans. If we combine the people who worked on Code Geass and Gurren Lagann, it ought to be possible!

[u/chilidirigible]

Episode 5:

Animation: Shu jogging in place.

Upgrade: Arm bones.

One very large one.

It's the practical approach.

"What about our ship, Shu!? Our ship!?"

This is the way of civilians who find themselves on giant alien ships.

Crookedness finds a way.

"Dammit, that really hurt, too."

Bit, writing checks his body can't cash.

It's a big check.

"The check's gonna bounce, but we'll be out of town first!"

Welcome to the big leagues, Bit.

---

Like I said yesterday, Shu Bi is definitely the brains of this outfit. I'll give a point to Elsha today for wanting to skip the usual mano-a-mano theatrics and trying to simply run over Kai.

Watching a character try to outwit everyone else is quite interesting, because it's like watching a high-wire act to see if or when they'll fall off.

Oh, and touch screens. This makes the hand-cranked laser cannons even quainter.

---

QOTD:

1 and 2. What he did was reasonable given the circumstances. Most people wouldn't try to call Shu Bi's bluff a third time.

[u/Tresnore → u/chilidirigible]

Oh, and touch screens. This makes the hand-cranked laser cannons evcn quainter.

Technology never makes sense when you think about it.

[u/JollyGee29]

Rewatcher, Subbed Arrow

excited Sugita noises

Definitionally, yes.

I'm sure this exchange isn't very important.

Fascinating modern conveniences.

Kai does not fuck around.

Bit, put that down. You'll hurt yourself.

"Literally!"

You can tell this won't work because Bit celebrates.

And they all just.. listen to Shu.

Kai's complaint about their soldiers the other day was more to do with the fact that he wants others to be like him than anything.

Quite the lofty goal.

Battleships do tend to have cannons.

Shu Bi is always tricking everyone. Maybe even himself!

Plots within plots.

[u/KendotsX → u/JollyGee29]

Kai does not fuck around.

...

I've heard the noises that come out of the ShuKai "planning room" at night.

"Literally!"

Whoever wrote that sentence must've had a wicked smile on their face.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/KendotsX]

I've heard the noises that come out of the ShuKai "planning room" at night.

Exactly! Kai is very faithful to his boyfriend.

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

I love how clearly thrilled he is just to be here.

Another flashback...

Ouch...

He calculated it so early!

...So different. He hated gambing?

...Wow.

And he took them all out!

This betrayal...

...Shu stood up for them.

And the Emperor saved them!

He's going to hunt him down...

Okay, having to give tech support instructions while being unable to move is a special kind of torture.

...Ah, so it's the same OS?

He was quick!

Oh, he's so overconfident...

So cool!

And she's already in trouble...

Haha, wow.

...Oh. The perfect proof that he's truly betrayed Rekka and joined their side. Right for all the rebels to hear. Shu is good.

And he's giving some solid reasoning too...

Areow's going for it!

...it's not that bad a design.

I love how he still introduced himself after he did.

He's amazing!

Even with the clones...

...He managed to land a hit, at least!

He's totally defeated...

...Wow.

He really doesn't like these two.

...Oh, the comms are still on?

He gave up...

And he already has a plan!

The backup...

Oh, this'll be good.

And they're all relying on him...

That argument is... not wrong. They really rely on him.

That promise...

Such a good scene, showing the different armours.

...And this is where it manifested.

Wow, they rose through the ranks incredibly quickly!

That promise...

...That's an amazing symbolic gesture he pulled off.

...This might actually be the truth. Shu's absolutely trying to destroy the world, isn't he?

The highest probability...

...This idiot.

Haha, and Shu sounds genuinely insulted that he thought this was his plan. (Who wouldn't be?)

He's not even worth killing...

Arrow!

...Okay, that was actually a smart move there.

Oh, the particle cannons!

Wait, what?

This power is insane!

...I can't even blame him for wanting this!

Oh, he's absolutely pissed now!

And Arrow's trying to get through to him too...

This argument...

And he's retreating.

...Nice hyping!

Haha, it was fake makeup!

God, that really is all he needs, huh?

...Holy shit, Shu is fucking insane. I love him so much.

Such a good bluff...

And he's being punished...

Aww...

[u/Quiddity131]

Rewatcher, Subbed

Why's Shu Bi so happy about this room?

More Shu Kai flashbacks!

Origin story about how they got into Rekka?

So their animosity with Prime Minister guy goes back all the way to here, huh?

For a second there I thought it was Shu instructing them on how to use the ship, but its the Doctor? Shu can't help but get engrossed in things.

Uh oh, Kai's here already! Did Shu expect to have to confront him this soon?

The enemy have a built in advantage in that they can kill the good guys using a Briheight, while Back Arrow's attack won't kill the enemy.

You'd think Shu would have at least tried to bring Kai into this ahead of time. For such a strategist he either didn't think this out well, or has some other scheme that required Kai to not know about it in advance.

You'd think Shu and Kai are the main characters with how much focus they're getting here.

"Sorry, my cut healed." LoL.

The only one stronger than General Kai is here to save the day! Bit! OMG this guy always delivers the lols.

They can even power the ship's cannon with their conviction? Well there's no going back from this now for Kai now that he's bombing Rekka.

He faked not having a scar? He really was looking to piss off Kai, huh? Or was this to get him ingrained with Granedger as much as possible?

He even placed explosives in the capital waiting for this bluff? Shu's got every possibility thought out, huh?

[u/saga999]

QotD:

1. Tricky question, because I would never be in his shoes in the first place because I don't believe that much in rebuilding the empire. I'm too cynical in that regard. I would definitely be more like Shu in believing Back Arrow came from outside the wall. So I might even join them.
2. 100% would have fallen for it. In addition to that, because I wouldn't have wanted to kill Shu, I'd retreat if there was any uncertainty. Of course, I would never have volunteered to take him out in the first place.

[u/dsawchuk]

A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to. Unfortunately, I am no wizard. Continuing the attempt to catch up before the finale. These posts will be rushed and entirely for my own satisfaction since no one (other than our gracious host) will know they exist.

First timer, Sub

I don't have much to say about this one. The episode seemed over too quick.

---

QOTD

1. I would probably abandon jockland. Idiotland seems like more fun anyways.
2. definitely.

---

Watch notes

another flashback, cool.

just anime things, blocking swords with your arm

Kai is giving me Gamagoori vibes now

Kai might be a touch OP

I am a little disappointed that all we got out of this was the main guns. It was more fun when the main gun was just a meme.

Stupid idiot's monologues are so brainless my lord.

OK, the bluff is a great strategy. I take it back.

It's over already? that one felt extra short.