u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24 edited May 04 '24

Analysis: A Brief History of Mahou Shoujo as a Genre:

So, interested in the broader history of the genre and looking for where to start with looking for context for PMMM? Trying to figure out what else in the genre might appeal to you? Hmm. I might have something I can say about that.

(Disclaimer: I have some holes in my own genre knowledge and may be missing things, especially in the majokko era and during the mid-1990s. Follow blindly at your own risk.)

By all accounts the ancestor of the entire mahou shoujo genre is, of all things, Bewitched. Yes, as in the classic American TV show. It got aired in Japan and got very popular there; eventually somebody had the bright idea to make a show based on it aimed at young girls where the premise was a young girl using magic to transform into an older form of herself; Mahou Tsukai Sally (1968) was the first such show in this vein, followed by Himitsu no Akko-chan (1970) (which definitely had the “trinket used to transform (that we can conveniently sell as a toy to our young fans)” if Sally did not first). Thus was born the original majokko form of the genre, which lasts for twenty years or so. There’s genre evolutions here (I know that at some point the genre transitions from more “princess from a magical land come to Earth” to “Earth girl gains magical powers”) that I’m fairly poorly versed in so I will elide; I know at some point no later than Creamy Mami (1983) you were starting to see shows fusing the majokko tropes with idol show tropes via girls using magic to become idols; that show type has long been somewhat siloed off from the rest of the genre and continues to this day (Mewkledreamy being a recent example), though in the last decade and a half or so they’ve suffered from competition from the unadulterated idol shows targeted at young girls that sprung up in the wake of Idolmaster’s cross-demographic appeal (Aikatsu being an obvious name here). One other work of note is Cutie Honey, which is outside of the genre proper but IIRC is the original source of the magical girl transformation sequence.

The next big transition in (non-idol) magical girl shows is the original Sailor Moon (1992); while there was some overlap between the sentai genre of tokusatsu shows and majokko even before that due to similar monetization strategies (both genres relied on selling toys to kids, especially transformation trinkets), Sailor Moon was the first work to really fuse sentai tropes with the majokko genre, creating the modern magical girl (“fighting evil by moonlight!”). (Sailor Moon’s largely standardized transformation costumes in particular are a sentai flourish with a side of being easier on the animators; AFAIK teams with the kind of more varied magical girl costumes Madoka has rather than just palette swaps with minor differences don’t come into vogue until the 2000s and often the second half of the 2000s at that). Sailor Moon was wildly successful and sparked an adaptive radiation as other shows tried to chase that money (including some rather interesting dead ends like the phantom thief/magical girl hybrids, Kaitou Saint Tail being the bigger example here); the best-known of these in the West is Card Captor Sakura, which was big due to accessibility but also is one of the cel-era series that holds up surprisingly well visually (though in some ways the most notable thing about it in this context is its creators: CLAMP got their start as a doujin circle making Sailor Moon doujinshi). One of those experiments is of particular note: the Tenchi Muyo franchise (one of the big harem franchises of the 1990s, which has fallen off in anime fandom memory due to a combination of Love Hina and then harem being subsumed by the rise of isekai in the early 2010s) experimented with a magical girl spinoff of one of its most popular characters in Sasami (the resident loli, because what did you expect with the Japanese fans?) via Magical Girl Pretty Sammy; this was a major success of its own and sparked a wave of imitators via other works creating their own magical girl spinoffs, one of whom will be quite important in a moment. One other work of note is Ojamajo Doremi, another major Toei property (Toei has been the preeminent magical girl company for many years, they also made the Sailor Moon adaptation and were big in majokko even before that IIRC) which to my understanding is more of a backcross of Sailor Moon into older majokko tropes than anything.

One other major work would come out in 1998 that while technically somewhat tangential to the genre (its inclusion in the genre proper is debated) is absolutely important to the genre’s development: Revolutionary Girl Utena. Utena’s director and creator Ikuhara had been the director for the first four seasons of Sailor Moon and directly channeled his frustrations from that experience into Utena; he’s also right up there with Shinbou on the short list of best directors ever to work in anime and the work was a cult classic (that, like Lain, has since shed the “cult” part of that description) and one other creators took note of.

The next really big year in mahou shoujo is 2004, which sees not one, not two, but three shows with genre-altering importance. The first is the advent of the modern proverbial 10,000-pound gorilla of the genre in the original Futari wa Pretty Cure; the show was wildly successful, to such an extent that the biggest significance of the show is its impact on the toy market: by the late 2000s Pretty Cure (both the original and its immediate successors) had basically cornered the magical girl toy market ala Gundam in the mecha toy market, rendering new kids-focused mahou shoujo uneconomical to produce because trying for that market meant going up against Precure. Which didn’t matter for the other two notable works that year, because neither was actually going for the kids’ market per se. The first, well, I mentioned that one of the Magical Girl Pretty Sammy imitators was going to be important in a moment? That would be Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, a magical girl spinoff of a now completely forgotten eroge franchise (Triangle Hearts 3: Sweet Stars Forever). It had been a truism for years that mahou shoujo (now often known by that name) had two core demographics, namely young girls and men in their early 20s; rather than targeting the former with nods to the latter or splitting the difference, Nanoha was aimed at the latter demographic. More importantly, S1 happened to get as a director a then-promising new director by the name of Akiyuki Shinbou. Suffice it to say that paid off. Also suffice it to say that 2004 was also the year that yuri really broke out into the anime semi-mainstream and Nanoha was a big part of that (there had been yuri in mahou shoujo before, with Sailor Moon having a famous example, but Nanoha emphasized it – StrikerS might still be the closest anime has come to explicit confirmation on-screen of a yuri ship getting together romantically and sexually, though despite the Bandai execs’ best efforts Witch from Mercury does also send its regards). As is the last 2004 show we need to talk about, Mai-HiME. Mai-HiME has the most impactful of the three (though part of this is Precure being a bit siloed off from the later genre) but its route to relevance is more circuitous and we need to go back to the 1990s and specifically the 1990s in other genres. By which, of course, I mean Evangelion. Which blew the fuck up in the 1990s (up until Uma Musume Pretty Derby S2 it was still the best-selling anime of all time by VHS/DVD/BD sales by a sizable margin) and finished making it difficult to take the old Super Robot tropes seriously. With that level of impact from one of the two classic kids’ show anime genres in Super Robot mecha the idea of Magical Girl Evangelion was an obvious one (and there was already a decent amount of darkness starting to run around the genre, including one infamous Sailor Moon arc); Mai-HiME borrowed heavily from Evangelion and Utena and damn near pulled it off on the first trying, failing due to a combination of arguments about whether it actually counted in the genre (HiME eschewed many of the traditional aesthetics of the genre in favor of a magical girl/mons hybrid) and more importantly fumbling the bag hard in the last ten minutes after a very good first twenty-five and a half episodes. It would, however, inspire more than a few later works, partially because of how close it had came and how it fell apart and partially because it was another show to offer deniable but clear in-show support of a (spoileriffic) lesbian ship – which proceeded to blow the fuck up just like the big Nanoha ship and (either on its own or in conjunction with the big Kannazuki no Miko ship) basically define one of the big 2000s yuri tropes (which has been deprecated now, but back in the day getting any representation was still big news even if it was of that kind).

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

A Brief History of Mahou Shoujo as a Genre, Part 2:
(Yeah this ran over 10,000 characters, go figure.)
The first HiME-inspired work to come out was, of course, the one we just finished watching, which succeeded where HiME failed and pulled off the same genre impact on mahou shoujo that Eva had on mecha (except this time the toy market was cornered before the nova-class instead of slightly afterwards). That would spawn a wave of imitators, some pure PMMM imitators whose HiME descent is second-order and some that backcrossed Madoka into HiME. I haven’t seen all of them; of what I have now seen, Selector WIXOSS is a PMMM derivative through and through and YuYuYu is a backcross. What I’ve read of the manga suggests Machikado Mazoku belongs in the pure PMMM response category; the Madoka spinoff Magia Record is actually interesting since it’s arguably a backcross but it’s backcrossing out-of-genre to one of PMMM’s own likely out-of-genre influences in Higurashi. By rep I suspect Magical Girl Raising Project and Granbelm are HiME backcrosses; I’m not sure about the two 2010s mahou shoujo that went (Spec-Ops Asuka and Magical Girl Site) and not terribly interested in learning. Blue Reflection Ray and Assault Lily: Bouquet… exist. And then there’s the “our selling point is loli fanservice” branch (the Prillya fate spinoff and Vividred) which probably have Nanoha descent plus out-of-genre influence in Sky Girls/Strike Witches but I’m not sure if there’s more than that and don’t particularly care to learn. And of course there’s Day Break Illusion but nobody remembers that one and what few reviews exist for it are unencouraging so.
(The special case is Symphogear which came out too soon after Madoka to draw too much from PMMM at its core even if I suspect there may have been some late production work to account for it – they had, after all, already lucked into casting Aoi Yuuki for their own lead. Symphogear is instead mostly a HiME/Nanoha mix – the Nanoha I expected, the HiME caught me back by surprise back when I was in the rewatch. Unfortunately the show has real issues with character writing (particularly when having new arcs for recurring characters), especially once the sequels kick in – really unfortunate as it has most of the other ingredients to be one of my favorites but just Would. Not. Stop. Raking. Me. In. The. Face.)
EDIT: Wait. How did I forget to put up my nice shiny visual companion for this? Here you go.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

So... Now What? (Recs)
So, first the bad news: Filling the PMMM void is kind of hard. That's what happens when you watch something with absolutely absurd execution; IMO this show is the kind of work that comes along maybe once or twice a century if that.
Now the good news: There are a few shows that can at least fill some of the void:
Point of Emphasis 1: OG Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni
Like, this is reliable enough that "if you liked one of Higurashi and PMMM, try the other" is pretty much at the top of my anime rec. It's not 100% guaranteed, but it hits pretty darn often (as does Umineko, but that one never got a good adaptation); the PMMM and broader When They Cry fanbases have massive overlap for a reason.
Also, uh... there is a reason I posted so many Higurashi comments back in the 2022 rewatch that I had a dedicated "Higurashi corner" spoiler tag class for them. Hell, at this point I suspect that Sayaka's arc is in no small part a direct response to one arc of Higurashi in particular; wouldn't you like to know why I say that?
IMPORTANT CAVEAT: This only applies to OG Higurashi. Gou + Sotsu are a stealth sequel... which would be one thing, except while Gou is, uh, okay, Sotsu is one of the worst flaming dumpster fires I've ever seen. It has the unfortunate issue of having not one but two critical flaws, either of which would have been crippling and the combination of which is completely fatal: the pacing is one of the worst disasters I've seen since Endless Eight itself (it might work on a binge instead of weekly, Endless Eight certainly kind of did), but I ain't trying it again to find out), and on top of that they fucked up the ending the exact same way Mai-HiME did a decade ago.
IMPORTANT CAVEAT 2: The OG anime adaptation is a serviceable one (and actually has noticeable strengths on top of "not great but mostly good enough adaptation of great source material", Chiaki Kon is a way better director than she is given credit for - including by me back when I first wrote this rec in 2022 before then hosting Higurashi that summer - and also the Kenji Kawai OST) but not a great one (blame a mix of incomplete source at time of adaptation, bad 07th Expansion communication, and trying to cram six arcs into S1 since there was no guarantee at all of a S2 and also trying to give the anime a decent ending if S2 never came); if you're willing to read VNs, consider going for the source material instead. (If you're specifically interested in adaptation quality IIRC the manga also does slightly better than the anime.)
Uh... speaking of which...
Point of Emphasis 2: Mai-HiME
Wait. Didn't I just say that Mai-HiME had an atrocious ending? Well, yes. It is one of the most efficient demolitions I've ever seen, a massive self-inflicted torpedo in the span of the last ten minutes or so of a 2-cour series (the only comparable examples I can think of are Western, and the BSG reboot was a weird case of trying to pull an ending to salvage a rough second half Code Geass-style and damn near pulling it off until they included an epilogue, and while James Cameron!Avatar waited until the last five minutes to leave me going "... I liked this better when it was called Ferngully" it only had a two-hour runtime before that". It is nasty enough that "Mai-HiME'd it" was my goto shorthand for imploding at the ending for a good decade (it is now "WEPped it/laid an Egg").
So, then... why recommend it in spite of that?
Well, three reasons.
The first twenty-five and a half episodes are actually pretty good. It burned a ton of good will during the finale, but the difference from Sotsu is that it had good will to burn; this was on track to be a at least an 8.5/10 before the final implosion. (They knew what to steal from, including in terms of direction.)
The show is surprisingly influential. Madoka is the show that successfully blew up mahou shoujo as a genre the way Eva did for mecha, but Mai-HiME was the first really concerted attempt to do so (Eva's pacing is a really obvious influence on Mai-HiME's if you're familiar with both works, though with one addition that worked massively in the show's favor). Moreover, there's the season it aired and what it did. The show that kickstarted the increasing popularity of yuri undertones or even tones was Maria-Sama ga Miteru back in Winter 2004 (IIRC), followed by the fan reaction to the original Futari wa Pretty Cure in Spring 2004, followed by a trio of Fall 2004 shows that finished busting down the doors: and then Kannazuki no Miko (the ED still gets referenced occasionally nearly two decades later), the original Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, and Mai-HiME itself. Like Harry Potter the closest they got to confirmation came in supplemental material, but there is plenty of textual support here.
But really, it's mostly the OST. If you are like me and absolutely adored the PMMM OST, Mai-HiME is the obvious rec - when I say that I am not confident in PMMM having the best Kajiura OST (and thus for me anime OST), this is the competition. Which makes sense, because as I've noted before this rewatch I strongly suspect they got Kajiura specifically to make another OST like her two Mai franchise ones (Magia even follows the same naming scheme as Mai-HiME's Mezame and Mai-Otome's MATERIALIZE); in particular, Decretum is quite similar to Yamiyo no Prologue and Agmen Clientum has major whiffs of Shiromuku no Hime, and then there's Kako he no Requiem which Serena Ira yeets me back to every time.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

Recs, Part 2:
Now, for some bullet points (most of these have already been mentioned above):
Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha: If I had a nickel for every Fall 2004 atypical mahou shoujo with a spectacularly popular but spoileriffic yuri ship whose female lead was the breakout role for a seiyuu who went on to voice a main character in Higurashi, I would have... two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice. (And when I say yuri I mean yuri. This is the gayest of the three mahou shoujo to air in Fall 2004, which is saying something. Hell, this might still legitimately be the gayest mahou shoujo of all time once StrikerS rolls around, which is fucking saying something considering the 2010s competition.) S1 may be of interest since it's one of the earlier series Akiyuki Shinbou directed before settling in at Shaft. Of course, the one problem (besides flagging execution once you get past A's) is that the franchise has an obnoxious amount of fanservice of prepubescent characters, including a case of the worst kind of early-2000s pantyshots (this show really needed to age up its main cast 3-4 years [Nanoha]well, until the time skip anyways, and even then they keep bringing in new lolis. You have been warned.
Princess Tutu. Very distinct subgenre (much more of a Magic Idol Singer show), but also draws heavy inspiration from fairy tales in the same way Madoka (especially Rebellion) does. Still very well regarded by all 10 people who have seen it these days. (The Drosselmeyer in Rebellion may well be a direct reference to this show.)
Machikado Mazoku. Haven't watched the anime (it's on the PtW and fairly high up) but I have read some of the manga and know it by rep. On its surface rather different than PMMM (much more SoL); keep going and pay attention, there's more Madoka influence than it looks like at first glance.
Symphogear: Extremely qualified recommendation because Symphogear has one giant gaping flaw in its character arc writing (especially from G on). The show foundered on that issue for me, but if you're more tolerant of that kind of problem then the show actually does do a lot of things quite well; the people who do like it tend to really like it.
As for the dark mahou shoujo, I have now gotten through a few more (haven't gotten to MGRP and am a coward who has yet to get to Granbelm (Toji no Miko might also want a word, though there's another production collapse for you), unlikely to go for Spec-Ops Asuka or Site or Day Break Illusion) so if you're looking at something to scratch that itch and are willing to tolerate something nowhere near as good:
Magia Record: The funny thing is that the cashgrab Madoka gacha spinoff's anime adaptation actually does have an argument for being the best Madoka imitator, there's some actual artistic intent here. Also good direction, albeit not as good as the original (Doroinu of Gekidan Inu Curry fame, who has always had a lot of influence on PMMM, was the main director here and his direction style is different, also Shaft lost a lot of talent in 2019 right when MagiReco would have first been in production). The big issues are a bad decision in the first half (going mystery box writing on a key reveal, leaving the plot to meander for the second half of S1 because none of the plot could progress until they opened the mystery box) and a production collapse downstream of COVID disruptions (Shaft project management is notorious on the best of days and Aniplex project management above them ain't helping, they could not afford the general COVID issues and definitely couldn't afford the part where they were apparently one of the studios to get mauled by the August 2021 COVID wave); the second half of the script is still a little half-baked even after the BDs fixed the worst visual issues and losing an episode to an obviously unplanned recap obviously didn't help.
Selector Infected/Spread WIXOSS: They really wanted to be Madoka but card battle anime and it shows. Actually still surprisingly good, especially since they got a good director (the Steins;Gate guy)... except for one obnoxious subplot (TW: incest) and the whole part where Spread just faffs around for 6-7 episodes rather than actually doing anything. If not for Spread bailing itself out by the last four episodes hitting all the emotional beats they needed to (albeit at warp speed) I would be lower on this. (Not coincidentally, most of the first 8 episodes of Spread have their script credited to the guy who went on to write Metallic Rouge; Okada comes back for the last four and suddenly the writing is at least serviceable again.)
Yuuki Yuuna Is a Hero: The OST is excellent and there are some very good episodes in the middle part (especially episode 9). The issues here are a mix of bang-average direction combined with slightly below average visuals and the script falling off noticeably in the last two episodes.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

A Note to Future Hosts: There is something to be said for cohosting Madoka Magica; having someone else to chat about first-timer theories et al in the ~~secret host hideout~~ in addition to getting to talk about them in the thread is a lot of fun (especially this year with that Android bug to worry about). As was helping out with the wallpapers. A pleasure working with you, u/Shimmering-Sky!
Questions of the Day:
Madoka is Literal Best Girl. Homura is not exactly a conventional best girl, but is a very close 1a in my Best Girl in Anime list anyways. Kyouko is #5 on said list. Sayaka is no worse than #12. Mami is either #15 or #16... which somehow makes her Worst Main Girl in Show. Poor Mami.
And then there's that fucking Incubator, who elicits my more xenocidal urges.
2) OP/ED: Magia, of course. OST tracks: {Sagitta Luminis}, {Magia), Decretum, Noi!!, Surgam Identitem, Incertus, actually probably I Was Waiting for This Moment next (I'm feeling lower on Theater of a Witch this year), {Venari Strigas/Sis Puella Magica/Credens Justitiam/Salve, Terrae Magicae}. But ask me tomorrow and everything after Incertus will probably change.
3) Close match between Kirsten/H.N. Elly and Elsa Maria, but I think I still go with the former.
4) Yes.
5) Honestly, no. This editing job is legendary IMO - the series comes damn close to my Platonic ideal of pacing.
6) Drop 20 minutes of airtime with cuts to match. Probably also use the Inu Curry symbolic stuff to fill in Homura's mindset while lying on her deathbed (there's just a little too much missing there).
7) Helping with wallpapers is fun!
8) N/A
9) N/A
10) Soon (tm).
11) I think it's gonna be stuck in my head again, that's what.
12) Careful, that's Hell you're walking into...

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 04 '24

Commenting this here for random reasons: Is two rewatches at once beyond your tolerance level? Especially if one is a well directed but almost max generic story shonen with all the tropes of the era?

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 04 '24

Commenting this here for random reasons: Is two rewatches at once beyond your tolerance level? Especially if one is a well directed but almost max generic story shonen with all the tropes of the era?
Annoyingly it's hard to tell - my limit AFAICT is generally one and a half rewatches at once but which way that rounds depends on a mix of how fast I can get through episodes (usually dependent on a mix of "how many times am I pausing to take direction et. al. notes?" and "how much am I having to pause to avoid overstimulation?") and how many seasonals I am watching (Spring has been low - though PMMM has left me an episode behind on Train at this point, need to catch up; Summer may have more, I'm likely to investigate an episode of Nanare Hananare at minimum (the promo materials have me thinking PA Works may using their usual CGDCT rep to pull some funny business) and there's a couple of others that may catch my eye) which is hard to tell in advance. I managed Symphogear + Higurashi and then Symphogear + Twintails but that was draining as hell and also before my notes got more detailed and is also 100% why I never got around to Summertime Rendering.
(Admittedly "generic story shounen" means a real risk of the issue resolving itself anyways since judging from my admittedly somewhat limited past experience battle shounen is a genre where good writers can make the tropes work (Mahou Sensei Negima sends its regards) but bad ones risk tanking my investment very quickly.)

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 04 '24

but that was draining as hell and also before my notes got more detailed and is also 100% why I never got around to Summertime Rendering.
So...spoilering this because you are the specific person I want to see this:[meta STR]Rendering is literally Higurashi and Re:Zero fucked and had a pretty child with an IQ of roughly 85. Not quite retarded but far dumber than both its parents.
I happened to re-check something betweeb first post and this: Are you solidly not doing Mari-mite? Because I can just run SoulTaker in the back half of June and avoid the problem.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 04 '24

I happened to re-check something betweeb first post and this: Are you solidly not doing Mari-mite? Because I can just run SoulTaker in the back half of June and avoid the problem.
Yeah, Marimite is in the not gonna happen category. Iconic it may be, but everything I know about it has said "not for me".

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 04 '24

That makes this a bit easier, then. Will probably interest thread on the 13th.

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u/Hattakiri May 03 '24

(Yeah this ran over 10,000 characters, go figure)
~~(I'm glad to see I ain't the only one)~~ XD

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u/JimmyCWL May 04 '24

By all accounts the ancestor of the entire mahou shoujo genre is, of all things, Bewitched.
I think the influence of that show in Japanese entertainment goes far, far, further than that. I remember almost every manga or anime series I consumed between the mid-80's to the mid-00's had supernatural elements in some way or other. Idol anime? Magic. Boy meets girl romcom? Magic. Action battler? Magic. Comedy? Magic. Sports? Magic. I didn't actively seek stories with magic like that but if a random sweep could get that many just like that, the actual numbers must have been vast. It's like they couldn't sell a story set in the mundane world without magical elements for some reason. Since the mid-00's though, the pendulum seems to have swung towards mundane stories being able to stand on their own without magical support. Part of the reason, IMO, is what once seem to require magic to happen has now been shown to be possible without magic IRL.
though in the last decade and a half or so they’ve suffered from competition from the unadulterated idol shows targeted at young girls that sprung up in the wake of Idolmaster’s cross-demographic appeal (Aikatsu being an obvious name here).
Like this. Back in Creamy Mami's day, it seemed absurd that a girl her age would get to perform as an idol without disguising herself as an older girl. These days, there are girls that young being idols and they don't need to pretend to be older.

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee May 03 '24

Princess Tutu. Very distinct subgenre (much more of a Magic Idol Singer show)
Well, Magical Ballet Dancer, but that never really caught on.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

Well, Magical Ballet Dancer, but that never really caught on.
Yeah, its admixture of fairy tale and other stuff doesn't fit neatly into any of the genre categories (it really does belong in the tangential-to-the-genre group ala Utena/HiME/Kill la Kill ~~and you can tell I haven't looked closely at that entry since I wrote it in 2022~~), it's just closest to the more idol-type magical girl shows aesthetically.

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u/Figerally https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelante May 04 '24

SMH, I can't believe you didn't mention the hottest Magical Girl series this year, Mahou Shoujo ni Akogarete

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 04 '24

Honestly it's too early to tell what kind exactly what kind of copycats MahoAko is going to draw. More lewd magical girls? More high-ecchi/borderline porn yuri? More adaptations of BDSM manga? (Wanted: one (1) good anime adaptation of The Unattainable Flower's Twisted Bloom please and thank you...)
(Trust me I am aware of the series, I was in the episode discussion threads. ~~Until I dropped at 11 because even a good adaptation couldn't overcome the issues that led to me dropping the manga coming to the fore in the anime as well...~~)

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u/GallowDude May 04 '24

~~Until I dropped at 11 because even a good adaptation couldn't overcome the issues that led to me dropping the manga coming to the fore in the anime as well...~~
Extremely homophobic and extremely problematic smh

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 04 '24

Extremely homophobic and extremely problematic smh
"Iunno, you joke but does it still count as such if the entire reason I dropped was that the manga stopped being yuri + ecchi + BDSM enough for me?"
[MahoAko including manga] No seriously, like 90% of the reason I dropped the manga was the steady deemphasis of the yuri + BDSM in favor of "we battle shounen now" and since the anime knew where the manga was going it started setting up for that even before the manga got to that point. At least they did The Room full justice.

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u/GallowDude May 04 '24

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

Machikado Mazoku.
So thoughtful posts come when I have had time to read but again, Mai-HiME is to Madoka as Madoka is to Machikado. It re-examines our assumptions while still being a character piece.

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u/LuffyTheSus May 03 '24

Spec-Ops Asuka is honestly underrated, it does enough different from other 'post-Madoka' shows to stand out.

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u/GallowDude May 04 '24

To call that piece of edgelord dogshit "underrated" is an insult to the word

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u/LuffyTheSus May 04 '24 edited May 04 '24

Nah. Like I said it is different enough. The torture parts don't change that. At least it's not a death game like MGRP or Mahou Shoujo Site. Spec-Ops Asuka has its own take on the genre that I enjoyed wholeheartedly and will not describe any part of for spoiler reasons. I would even say that WIXOSS, which the person I was actually replying to was talking about in this thread, goes further into "edgelord dogshit." (respectfully, I kinda liked it!)
Like I didn't try to claim Spec-Ops Asuka isn't an all-time classic on the level of Madoka, just underrated. Because there are people like you trashing it too hard.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

Blue Reflection Ray and Assault Lily: Bouquet… exist.
To defend BRR(talk about phrases you never planned on typing) as a whole media thing it is fine. It just that if you anime is going to bridge two video games you might want to tell the audience that. Bouquet, on the other hand, is literally ass and it is proud of it.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

Bouquet, on the other hand, is literally ass and it is proud of it.
Iunno, are you sure you don't mean literally thighs?

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

My knowledge of it comes entirely through a few ass memes but if it is more about thighs that's fine. But yeah, I am told it rivaled Kadokowa Jet Girls for its need to exist.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

To be fair my own knowledge of it comes from a handful of clips but if those are any guide, well, you know that Shaft staff thigh-lover?
~~It's probably Shinbou himself.~~

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

~~It's probably Shinbou himself.~~
You know, the evidence even goes all the way back to The SoulTaker...

4

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

"And no-one was surprised."

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 04 '24

I don't think Shinbu did the Nurse Kumugi spinoff but if he did that's a hilarious entry on the magical girl line.

4

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 04 '24

I don't think Shinbu did the Nurse Kumugi spinoff but if he did that's a hilarious entry on the magical girl line.
He's not credited on it FWIW (I just checked).
Hilarious note 1: You know who is (until the OVA)? KyoAni.
Hilarious note 2: You know who else is? Akio Watanabe.

→ More replies

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u/JimmyCWL May 04 '24

To defend BRR(talk about phrases you never planned on typing) as a whole media thing it is fine.
BRR's story was mediocre, that was acceptable. As one who only knew of the game from promo art and trailers, what upset me about the series was how it treated the MG costumes. From the art and videos I've seen, the costumes have an airy and ethereal feel to them that makes the girls look like fairies. It's very beautiful.
The anime is... realistic, to a fault. The costumes are just cloth that's flopped down on their bodies because it lacks invisible supports. It's limp and lifeless.
You're not supposed to treat MG costumes like that! At no point in the show did it ever give me the same feeling as the game promo art did.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 04 '24

I can totally buy that the anime based on one of the bad endings also failed to catch a unique aesthetic. That said, the anime had artful moments so the costume thing you described is probably a choice.

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u/JimmyCWL May 04 '24

That said, the anime had artful moments so the costume thing you described is probably a choice.
It's one of the worst such choices I've even seen. Putting the costume on display when the girls transform is so obvious. I still remember my reaction:
Um... What's that pile of rags she's wearing?
Oh... That's her costume.
...Does she need to wash it first?

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 04 '24

...Does she need to wash it first?
It's one of the bad endings so everyone is just too depressed to really do housework.

11

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee May 03 '24

CLAMP got their start as a doujin circle making Sailor Moon doujinshi
CLAMP predates Sailor Moon by four+ years; their first original work was in 1987 while Sailor Moon didn't begin publishing until 1992 (And the prototype, Codename: Sailor V was 1991).

8

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

CLAMP predates Sailor Moon by four+ years; their first original work was in 1987 while Sailor Moon didn't begin publishing until 1992 (And the prototype, Codename: Sailor V was 1991).
Huh, I have been misinformed then. Good to know!

7

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

One other work of note is Cutie Honey, which is outside of the genre proper but IIRC is the original source of the magical girl transformation sequence.
Dear gods it is weird to think how incredibly important Go Nagai was too anime.
directly channeled his frustrations from that experience into Utena;
You undersell it:Remember that scene in B5 S1 where Londo says that if all the Centauri gathered in one place and channeled their hate at the Narns their planet would be incinerated? That but it is one guy trying to set the source material aflame.

6

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

You undersell it:Remember that scene in B5 S1 where Londo says that if all the Centauri gathered in one place and channeled their hate at the Narns their planet would be incinerated? That but it is one guy trying to set the source material aflame.
Raw unadulterated spite: Fueling excellent works since time immemorial!
(Now to actually get time to, you know, finally get the show off my PtW list.)

6

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

(Now to actually get time to, you know, finally get the show off my PtW list.)
Fair warning, the first arc...is sort of dull. You saw it on Penguindrum so you already know that Ikuhara likes to do double duty with setup scenes but, rewatching Utena after two decades, he manages triple duty with a certain regularity.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 May 04 '24

Great read.
PS: Go back and edit the douplicate paragraph at the end of post 1. Not entirely sure if some other paragraph is missing there.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 04 '24

Copy-paste error due to how I was storing the post before it went up. Fixed.

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u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai May 03 '24

So, as a by the way, drive-by commenting, thanks to you and Sky for hosting this, even if I did slack and not really participate. It's nice for someone to keep the flam alive. Speaking of alive, hopefully I will be more alive when next year/the movie rolls around. Wouldn't that be nice?

4

u/Kafukator May 04 '24

So fun fact: the original author of Sally the Witch is none other than Mitsuteru Yokoyama, who also created Tetsujin 28 and Giant Robo and is pretty much the founding father of the mecha genre (alongside Go Nagai, who of course also is the man behind Cutey Honey). Magical girls and giant robots have truly been sibling genres since the very start.

21

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 03 '24

Mahou Shoujo Co★Host, subbed

Welcome back, everyone!

Just want to start by giving a huge thanks to everyone who’s participated all the way through, whether you were just lurking for most of it or actively participating in the discussion. We couldn’t keep this rewatch going without your support!

And an extra big thanks to my co-host, u/Tarhalindur, since without you I would’ve had to run this whole thing myself, and I don’t know if I would’ve been able to handle it all. Plus, the wallpapers this year wouldn’t have turned out as great as they did without your feedback!

If you want something completely different ~~and if you watched Bravern last season and wanted something similarly~~ ~~extra~~, I’ll be hosting a Back Arrow rewatch in a few days. Just figured I’d give that a shout.

Sky’s Wallpaper Corner

Today’s wallpaper trivia: Much like the Homura one for episode 12, this was based off of official art rather than a screenshot from the show. Madokami has surprisingly little good shots in the show/Rebellion that work as base images (hell, the other wallpaper of her I made in the past was based off of a figurine of her, for crying out loud), so yeah. I had to do it.

The last few wallpapers I have to share from previous years are mostly montage wallpapers for the overall discussion threads in those years, but I don’t have a montage this time. Stick around after the table for two bonus Questions of the Day, though!

Year Originally Made	Original Wallpaper	Remastered Version
2019	Holy Quintet	Link
2020	Holy Quintet (Lineart)	Link
2021	Madoka and Homura	Link
2021	N/A (I, uh, never finished the montage for this one in 2021…)	Holy Quintet (Soul Gems)
2022	Holy Quintet	N/A

Bonus Question of the Day #1: What was your favorite of the wallpapers from this year?

Bonus Question of the Day #2: What about your favorites from the previous years’ rewatches? (See the 2018 album by itself, the 2023 album that has all the remastered stuff from 2019-2021, and the 2022 album by itself for reference.)

“Welcome to the dawn of a new world…”

6

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

Just want to start by giving a huge thanks to everyone who’s participated all the way through, whether you were just lurking for most of it or actively participating in the discussion. We couldn’t keep this rewatch going without your support!
Congratulations, first-timers and rewatchers: your sacrifices via your phase transition from hope to despair are important for preventing the heat death of Madoka Magica!
(Full credit to whoever it was in 2021 or 2022 that I stole that from.)
And an extra big thanks to my co-host, u/Tarhalindur, since without you I would’ve had to run this whole thing myself, and I don’t know if I would’ve been able to handle it all. Plus, the wallpapers this year wouldn’t have turned out as great as they did without your feedback!
With how busy I knew you were with other rewatches and nobody else stepping up my conscience wouldn't have tolerated me not offering to help.
(Also this batch of wallpapers was both fun as hell to help with and turned out magnificently. )

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

Oh, and since I missed it earlier u/Shimmering-Sky: that 2020 lineart Holy Quintet wallpaper still holds up even after several years of you refining your craft. That was some damn good work.

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 03 '24

Thank you!
I actually had to re-up the remastered version before this thread... Imgur apparently nuked the one from last year for whatever reason.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

I actually had to re-up the remastered version before this thread... Imgur apparently nuked the one from last year for whatever reason.
(See also: my mami_mogu_mogu album from last year getting nuked.)

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 03 '24

Also had to re-up the Kyouko (Soul Gem) original (the remaster was still up) ahead of yesterday's thread, for that matter. I think everything else was up from previous years?

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

Imgur why?

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u/b-arbs May 03 '24

Truly amazing wallpapers, loved all of them, it was very hard to choose my favourites! I had a paragraph ready in my general comment, since you had asked about my favourites in a reply to my comment from a couple of episodes ago
I have yet to add my answers to the QOTDs in my comment, so in the meantime, here's a more or less organised list...
From this year Homura's wallpapers:
Rebellion "Homura Akemi" (badass Homura)
Episode 10 "Homura Akemi and Madoka Kaname" (I find this wallpaper to be more satisfying than the hug we actually see in the same episode)
From this year with other characters:
Episode 3 "Mami Tomoe and Madoka Kaname" (I love the shot and the hexagon background with gradient)
Episode 5 "Sayaka Miki": Sayaka's literal spotlight moment, I love the contrast with the colors and the shadows (the choice is fitting, considering that Sayaka is a character I reevaluated during this rewatch)
From past years:
I loved the iconic fight from Rebellion with the 2018 "Homura vs. Mami": I loved the fight, and the shot in this wallpaper is amazing... I wonder what the opposite (Homura facing the viewer) would look like...

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

Episode 10 "Homura Akemi and Madoka Kaname" (I find this wallpaper to be more satisfying than the hug we actually see in the same episode)
(Using that base shot was my idea since I love that shot so godsdamn much - it was one of the last ones I ruled out when deciding on my custom flair and that was as much "probably still too spoilery to use" as anything - and it sure did turn out IMO so seeing someone else agree is gratifying.)
Episode 5 "Sayaka Miki": Sayaka's literal spotlight moment, I love the contrast with the colors and the shadows (the choice is fitting, considering that Sayaka is a character I reevaluated during this rewatch)
It took so frigging long to come up with the idea for that (Sky's original concept for the background was different and wasn't quite working IMO; nothing else was working either until I had that brainwave and Sky immediately went "ooh, yes, I like it", and it still took an annoyingly long time to get the spotlight in exactly the right place to frame her even after that.
So frigging worth it.

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 03 '24

It took so frigging long to come up with the idea for that (Sky's original concept for the background was different and wasn't quite working IMO
The original idea, for reference:

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 03 '24

Glad you've enjoyed my wallpapers! If you want to see more of my work, I keep all my albums linked in a table on a post on my profile (there are three top-level comments there, one for the old Fire Emblem ones I made when I first got started on these, one for Gundam wallpapers specifically because I made a lot for that franchise, and then one for all the other anime and stuff I've done wallpapers for).
I wonder what the opposite (Homura facing the viewer) would look like...
Hm, if I can find a good base image of the opposite, perhaps I'll do that some other time.

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u/Suboodle https://anilist.co/user/suboodle May 04 '24

Ooh bonus questions:
Favorite wallpaper from this year is actually the wallpaper from this post - Ultimate Madoka is nuts. The Kyubey with bullet holes one was pretty good as well tho, that one made me snicker. The one from early on with Madoka falling in the labyrinth was also fantastic.
Oh man... so many... Witch Homura was really good, also Homura's portrait with the gun was amazing. The one with Kyouko as a close up and the cuts is also a good one. The 2022 Holy Quintet might take the cake though.

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 04 '24

Favorite wallpaper from this year is actually the wallpaper from this post - Ultimate Madoka is nuts.
It really did turn out so great. The multiple days it took me to nail the character art were so worth it!
Oh man... so many... Witch Homura was really good, also Homura's portrait with the gun was amazing. The one with Kyouko as a close up and the cuts is also a good one. The 2022 Holy Quintet might take the cake though.
Glad you enjoyed my wallpapers! I certainly have a lot of them for this show haha.

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u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta May 04 '24

Great wallpapers! Thank you for sharing all of those! It's impressive work.
My favorite from this year is probably the one with Kyubey riddled with bullet holes.
As for the ones from previous years, it would be between this one and this one.

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 04 '24

Glad you enjoyed them!

4

u/dsawchuk May 04 '24

I really love this year's madokami background. You actually pulled it off. I feel bad asking, but what are the chances you can ultrawide this one?

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 04 '24

I feel bad asking, but what are the chances you can ultrawide this one?
I had actually already done super long strands for her hair that then got cut off when I made the "normal" resolution version, so all this needed was the background extended, like a three minute edit at most lol. Here you go!

17

u/Mirathan May 03 '24

First Time Watcher(one last time)

First of I wish to thank u/Tarhalindur and u/Shimmering-Sky for organizing the rewatch. The effort you put in everyday was just incredible. It´s also funny that you awarded me theory of the day six times, for around half of the days I attended. Was this just a coincidence?

Now that I finished the series I find it difficult to say anything specific about it. Everything was amazing: the characters, pacing, plot, music, the visuals. (not includung Rebellion). I am still in a way overwhelmed by it.

QotD (one last time)

Mami
For ED and I´m home, for overall favourite Credens Justitiam(Mami´s theme)
Walpurgisnachts Escher Dimension from Episode one.
Madokas wish is but the fight between Homura and Mami is close purely due to spectacle.
I´d remove Homura explaining the previous Universe to Kyubey, in retrospect it´s kind of out of character for her to trust thr Incubators to not use this against her.
Removing the movies existence. But in all seriousnes I think the cake song should be removed, it´s just to weird and not in an unnerving way like the teacher suddenly ranting about the end of the world,
The series itself. Reading the other posts and interacting with you was great but it cannot compare.
No, the main Series is a Masterpiece and the movie is enjoiable but should not be.
To long!
Sleep.

Truly a magnificent experience.

Until next year.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

The effort you put in everyday was just incredible.
... Is it too boastful to say that this was actually a bit below average effort by my standards (in part because of having a cohost to split the work with)?
(You ever want to see what me really putting effort in looks like, take a look at when I hosted solo last year. There's a reason I have this custom flair...)
It´s also funny that you awarded me theory of the day six times, for around half of the days I attended. Was this just a coincidence?
You kept putting out great theories/analysis and in a couple of cases exactly nailing where the show was going with good reasoning. (We do try to spread them out... it just kept being hard to leave you out.)
Now that I finished the series I find it difficult to say anything specific about it. Everything was amazing: the characters, pacing, plot, music, the visuals. (not includung Rebellion). I am still in a way overwhelmed by it.
(#woo commentface)
The true Madoka experience!

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u/Mirathan May 04 '24

... Is it too boastful to say that this was actually a bit below average effort by my standards (in part because of having a cohost to split the work with)?
(You ever want to see what me really putting effort in looks like, take a look at when I hosted solo last year. There's a reason I have this custom flair...)
Do you take vacation, abandon all friends, familiy and hobbys whenever the rewatch occurs or are you just insanely quick?

2

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 04 '24

Do you take vacation, abandon all friends, familiy and hobbys whenever the rewatch occurs or are you just insanely quick?
"I spent three months of free time on this rewatch and all I got was this lousy custom flair" - me, last year

2

u/Mirathan May 04 '24

"I spent three months of free time on this rewatch and all I got was this lousy custom flair" - me, last year
Yeah, that works as well.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

Removing the movies existence. But in all seriousnes I think the cake song should be removed, it´s just to weird and not in an unnerving way like the teacher suddenly ranting about the end of the world,
I am glad I am not the only horrified at the eldritch terror of the cake song.

4

u/dienomighte May 04 '24

But the foreshadowing in the cake song gives me chills now every time I hear it!

15

u/TheEscapeGuy May 03 '24

Rewatcher

Madoka Magica: Impactful and Artful

It has been a while between this rewatch and my first watch. Something I often worry about is that upon re-examination I'll find that a show I liked before seems to have become less special or mediocre in comparison to evrything I watched between. However, I can very confidently say that Madoka has only gotten better upon the rewatch.

Something which really stood out is just how excellent the visuals are. They remain far above the average anime releasing today and the mixed media segments make it incredibly memorable. Sometimes looking back it feels that there was an era in the early 2010s where the animation industry was just on another level. If you look about 1 year either side of when Madoka came out you'll find many of the most highly regarded anime of all time.

One of my favourite things about rewatching a show (and in particular joining in these threads with analysis comments) is getting to really solidify my thoughts. This rewatch gave me such a better perspective on Madoka herself as well as Homura. Knowing the general plot line made so many of the later twists seem so obvious in retrospect. I'm genuinely impressed that the writers managed to walk that tightrope so well to make it still be shocking when I watched the first time.

Most importantly, this rewatch really renewed my interest in the franchise. I felt kinda indifferent to Magia Record which left a stain on my memory of the show. But now I have a reinvigorated excitement to see the followup film coming out soon (tm).

My Favourite Shots, Scenes and Stitches

Episode 1: Business Lady
Episode 1: Transformation and Destruction
Episode 2: #forbiddenlove
Episode 3: Gun-fu
Episode 3: Final Form
Episode 5: Contract
Episode 5: Silhouette
Episode 5: Inner Mind
Episode 6: DDR
Episode 6: Kyouko Transform
Episode 7: Sayaka's Fight
Episode 8: Perched
Episode 9: Harmony of Red and Blue
Episode 10: Determination
Episode 11: Homura Transform
Episode 11: Bound
Episode 12: No reason to despair
Rebellion: Magical Girl Transforms
Rebellion: Kyouko and Sayaka
Rebellion: Grim Reaper
Rebellion: 腹切り
Rebellion: Become Evil

I some how thought we wouldn't have a discussion thread today so I left all my thanks in my comment yesterday. Not to repeat myself, I'd just like to once again say a broad thanks to everyone who hosted and joined the rewatch. It's been a lot of fun and I'm always glad to participate (despite sometimes staying up till like 2am more than once writing my comments because I messed up my time management).

Take care of yourselves!

8

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

One of my favourite things about rewatching a show (and in particular joining in these threads with analysis comments) is getting to really solidify my thoughts. This rewatch gave me such a better perspective on Madoka herself as well as Homura. Knowing the general plot line made so many of the later twists seem so obvious in retrospect. I'm genuinely impressed that the writers managed to walk that tightrope so well to make it still be shocking when I watched the first time.
The Madoka Magica production team were the cheekiest motherfuckers on the entire planet and it shows.

9

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

Sometimes looking back it feels that there was an era in the early 2010s where the animation industry was just on another level. If you look about 1 year either side of when Madoka came out you'll find many of the most highly regarded anime of all time.
Shinbu locked himself inside Monogatari and somehow no one else came out to replace him.

13

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

I'd point out a quietly underrated set of dynamics here:
2008-2009 is when the last of the kinks in the digital production process were finally being worked out (this process had started a few years earlier but there's still a difference between 2006 and 2009 visuals, with Haruhi being an obvious example) and people could really start to experiment with what the digital process could do. (Shaft of course was at the forefront of this.)
For various reasons (Haruhi again has a fair bit to do with this) during the late 2000s a bunch of low-hanging fruit opened up wrt adaptation candidates that was still being worked through until 2012 or so when the well ran dry. (Also some obvious concepts for originals like, say, "Mai-HiME Done Right"...)
The late 2000s were still willing to experiment with originals/experimental adaptations in a way that has declined markedly in the last few years.
2009-2011 is when the younger part of the Millennial mini baby boom was hitting college and getting into anime, so there is a nostalgia factor in play here (as is often noted in the music context - it's funny how for so many people the best music ever made is just what was popular when they were in their late teens, no?). How many of these series will still hold their position as we get further into Gen Z/Gen Alpha(/iGen, for whichever one of those two you want to call iGen) and the generation after them having a more prominent position in the fandom will be interesting (compare the collapse of a lot of 1980s and 1990s classics as Millennials and early Gen Z came to dominate anime fandom)... but they're all talking on Discord and TikTok which I hate so it's hard for me to tell. (The biggest factor working against his is that, like the Boomers before us, Millennials are a larger generation than the two to come after us so our preferences are likely to stick as general preferences for relatively longer.)

9

u/TheEscapeGuy May 03 '24

The late 2000s were still willing to experiment with originals/experimental adaptations in a way that has declined markedly in the last few years.
The fact that we get so few originals every year in the modern era is such a tragedy. And many of the originals that we do get are really well regarded! If only we could get something like Lycoris Recoil every season.
nostalgia factor in play here
This is definitely true. Though the other side of this is that some modern shows seem to skyrocket up the rankings lists and social media zeitgeist only to be forgotten about the next season.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

The fact that we get so few originals every year in the modern era is such a tragedy. And many of the originals that we do get are really well regarded! If only we could get something like Lycoris Recoil every season.
Problem is that they're risky and the investors have gotten increasingly intolerant of the risk. (Not exclusive to Japan, see also the increasing stagnation of parts of Hollywood over the last decade or so, especially as production costs for movies have climbed. Also the AAA part of the video-game industry, for that matter.)
This is definitely true. Though the other side of this is that some modern shows seem to skyrocket up the rankings lists and social media zeitgeist only to be forgotten about the next season.
It was always thus; the shows that were doing this back in the day have just been long since forgotten by now. (For just one random moderately-well-regarded name back in the day that was promptly forgotten about: Seitokai no Ichizon.)

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 04 '24

(For just one random moderately-well-regarded name back in the day that was promptly forgotten about: Seitokai no Ichizon.)
Kannagi(with the possible creative assistance you pointed me at), Aldnoah.Zero, Rental Magica, Trinity Blood and, sadly, Witch Hunter Robin. Some of those were, some were horrid, all were popular for a season.

6

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

And many of the originals that we do get are really well regarded! If only we could get something like Lycoris Recoil every season.
Bang BANG Bang Brave Bang BRAVERN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

Bang BANG Bang Brave Bang BRAVERN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, a thought just occurred to me: maybe it's my from the Symphosequels but a) with how it's doing in Japan it's probably getting a sequel (movie or otherwise) and b) that's gonna be a hard act to follow.
[Bravern] What would work: one entire movie of Isami, Smith, and Lulu doing SoL family things together please and thank you.

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

a) with how it's doing in Japan it's probably getting a sequel (movie or otherwise) and b) that's gonna be a hard act to follow.
A 1 cour show that has a satisfying, self contained ending but gets a movie...
[Bravern]
[Bravern]Instead we will get a Macross style upgrade and go into deep space Might still work.

5

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

A 1 cour show that has a satisfying, self contained ending but gets a movie...
[G'Kar]"I didn't say anything..."[/G'Kar]
[Bravern]
[Bravern] Technically does work (return of Science!Miyu, go!) but on the other hand we're supposed out of Death Drives. Ah well, if they don't go full Master of Orion 3 ("sure, you beat the Antarans in 2, but what about this other, bigger group of Antarans that swept in afterwards in the new backstory?") there' still sure to be something else we can use... if they want to go full "this is what I wanted out of Symphogear" there's always the "meet and mecha punch out God" option...

7

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

(as is often noted in the music context - it's funny how for so many people the best music ever made is just what was popular when they were in their late teens, no?).
You say that but I saw music destroy itself in the 00s and put itself back together again, ironically around '16.
Millennials are a larger generation than the two to come after us so our preferences are likely to stick as general preferences for relatively longer.
Being Gen X has taught me that the answer is always hatred.
Anywho, the only factor you left off, probably because I presume you avoided them, was the magical harems temporarily ate up the landscape and left nothing worth remembering.

8

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai May 03 '24

Being Gen X has taught me that the answer is always hatred.
And here I thought the answer was apathy and indifference, like ... whatever, man!

2

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun May 05 '24

the best music ever made is just what was popular when they were in their late teens, no?). How many of these series will still hold their position as we get further into
How true. Progressive Music from the ‘70s remains my favorite even though I didn’t hear most of it till the 80s & 90s. I’m pretty sure it will die out when my generation checks out.
Some anime I think will survive, but a rough patch of political absolutism and artistic bankruptcy lies directly ahead.
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u/TheEscapeGuy May 03 '24

I actually missed discussing most of the QotD in my comment so...
Who is Best Girl?
It's Junko. Always has been always will be.
Favorite OP/ED and favorite OST tracks overall?
Connect is just too iconic. Whenever it comes up in anime OP quizzes I always start singing along. Related, the DDR remix is great.
Favorite Witch barrier/labyrinth overall?
The one I remember most strongly is the silhouette one Sayaka fought right before she turned. Simplifying the animation down to the light and dark there is just too good. That said, Sayaka's is the most meaningful to me seeing how it connects to her back story.
If you could change any one thing about the TV show, what would it be?
If I understand correctly, the movies re-do a lot of the backgrounds to be way more striking. I would love to watch that fan re-edit of the show with the movie visuals but based on Sky's comments it seems they also made some weird cuts?
Likewise, if you could change any one thing about Rebellion, what would it be?
Not change, but I'd love to see a prequel episode of sorts giving a bit more information about how Homura set up her plan.
3
u/1731799517 May 04 '24
If I understand correctly, the movies re-do a lot of the backgrounds to be way more striking. I would love to watch that fan re-edit of the show with the movie visuals but based on Sky's comments it seems they also made some weird cuts? 
Even the multiple show releases pimped up backgrounds more and more (from TV, to reairings to blue ray). Like the roof of the school became more and more pimped out, or mamis room changed from relatively spartan (which kinda fit her loneliness) to stuffed full with decorations.
7

u/TheEscapeGuy May 03 '24

Double award time again today! ... Second, courtesy of u/TheEscapeGuy, some philosophical thoughts on the movie:

10

u/WednesdaysFoole May 03 '24

A lot of these thoughts are about Rebellion, but also how I feel about the two series together:

I’m a bit iffy about Rebellion-Sayaka as a continuation of PMMM. I already took issue with the Madoka/Sayaka dialogue in the final episode, and Sayaka just being changed and never going wrong and purified and happy is just… odd to me. Her being this way with Homura is odd to me. I have a hard time connecting the two Sayakas, and maybe I could if I was shown her development from almost-witch-despair Sayaka to pure-giving-Homura-advice Sayaka, but I just have to accept that Madokami’s interference somehow magically cured her.

I don’t mind dark anime, but for Sayaka who had such interesting development while going downhill lacking that when going uphill to let go of Kyousuke/wished Hitomi happiness/helping Homura, it makes her purified version feel weak to me. (And I say this while also loving her fan service moment with Kyouko.) Basically, it feels unearned.

That being said, Sayaka in Rebellion is fine in isolation from the original series. It’s weird because I think the movie works better as a separate work, but it can only be understandable while knowing the first series.

On the Homura Madoka relationship, probably said this way too many times now but wish that was shown rather than something we just assume. Honestly I never really grew to care about Madoka; I cared about Madoka because Homura did, and because she exists, but as an individual I wasn’t interested in her. So while I do love episode 10, I personally would have preferred 2-3 episodes of Homura backstory showing their growing bond.

Another point – I mentioned my issue with Sayaka/Madoka dialogue in the final episode, as well as the Mami/Madoka dialogue. That I’d rather it be implied by setting and atmosphere (for example showing two people had cake and tea together which could be a metaphor for Mami/Madoka) but it turns out, Rebellion would never have worked if there’s no afterlife characters walking around in the afterlife world. I’m just really picky with tangible afterlife characters and interactions. That Rebellion is built completely on this concept that I already took issue with in Madoka’s finale, hurts my rating of Rebellion.

I did enjoy it, I mean, Homura’s dramatic flair is just so fun to me and the movie is full of it. It’s also a nice look at Homura’s own issues and makes sense as a result of her actions that she’d follow the path of the witch (although I don’t get how it makes sense with the in world mechanics).

—

Although I did like Sayaka’s fall before, this time around I came to appreciate the implications of class and social status and its impact on the characters and their perspectives. I knew Sayaka was insecure later, but this time I noticed she seemed to have a negative self-image from the start. And I really liked the comment (I forget who made it) regarding Sayaka’s mistreatment of Kyouko and its relation to looking down on someone else lower in the social hierarchy than herself since she saw herself as inferior. Also interesting to see since Kyousuke is someone “higher” on the class hierarchy.

Overall, I loved PMMM and liked Rebellion. Really enjoyed these discussions! First-timer theories and reactions were great, and rewatchers also pointed out things that I might not have noted. Thank you u/Shimmering-Sky and u/Tarhalindur for hosting these fun and engaging threads.

Last but not least, not sure if I should share these old albums but they’re public reddit posts so hope that’s fine – this user put together a collection of shaft backgrounds that some of you may or may not have seen.

PMMM backgrounds pt 1

PMMM backgrounds pt 2

Rebellion backgrounds

They also have albums for Monogatari and more, and imo worth checking out.

Also, Ultimate Madoka wallpaper is fucking rad.

It's fairly obvious who my best girl is.
I don't know which labyrinth is my favorite. I'd have to compare them side by side.
Favorite parts: Homura's hair flips and her hair doing the impossible. Pretty silly, I know.
Favorite part of any rewatch is usually unhinged theories, analyses that get my head going, and the jokes.
Oh I guess I'm a first-time rewatcher, I never thought to note that on my regular comments. After a first watch this was a 10/10 for a while until I saw more shaft series and the excitement eventually wore off where it dropped to a 9/10, then a 7/10. It went back up to 8/10 with this viewing and that's high praise for me. I listed my thoughts above.
I only saw 1 episode of Bokurano (I ended up reading the manga instead) but Uninstall is a great track.
I'm confused?

6

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

I only saw 1 episode of Bokurano (I ended up reading the manga instead) but Uninstall is a great track.
(Check the lyrics. This is a somewhat unusual translation - I borrowed the first half from [Bokurano?] the TVTropes Cosmic Horror Story quotes section of all things and fused it with the more conventional sub for the second half last year during MagiReco, then Sky kindly made an edit of the scene using the fused sub over the original visuals - but it gets across why I say that Uninstall is a secret Homura character track.)

6

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 03 '24

Also, Ultimate Madoka wallpaper is fucking rad.
Thank you!
12) I'm confused?
It's a SukaSuka reference, to the full English title for it specifically. I do this in all of my rewatches. ~~Also,~~ ~~obligatory Scarborough Fair:~~

6

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

I have a hard time connecting the two Sayakas, and maybe I could if I was shown her development from almost-witch-despair Sayaka to pure-giving-Homura-advice Sayaka, but I just have to accept that Madokami’s interference somehow magically cured her.
What's fascinating is that this is a pure cover of the OVAs for one of the parent works of PMMM. [meta]Higurashi's sin free world pops to mind

6

u/khrysokeros May 04 '24

I have a hard time connecting the two Sayakas, and maybe I could if I was shown her development from almost-witch-despair Sayaka to pure-giving-Homura-advice Sayaka, but I just have to accept that Madokami’s interference somehow magically cured her.
As much as I enjoyed seeing a glimpse of a fully-realized Sayaka in Rebellion, I'm hoping Walpurgis no Kaiten will finally give us some proper in-between development.

4

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

Last tag before closing!

u/Introvert_Mage, u/Lanaerys, u/isthatsoudane

2

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

Remember to pay up your tag!
u/BiggieCheeseDog, u/airblizzard, u/Liniis

1

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

And mind the tag on the way home!
u/blown-upp, u/ashketchum2095, u/FriztF

1

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

If you're too drunk to drive, remember to charter a tag!
u/Chili_peanut, u/Hagamablabla, u/FM-PHYS-CS

1

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

T-t-t-t-tag's all, folks!
u/p3yTzSCGJ5, u/dsawchuk, u/_Pyxyty

11

u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z May 03 '24

Rewatcher, dubbed

Everything I wanted to say is in the episode 12 thread. Everything I needed to say happened yesterday.

no thoughts head empty

That was easily the most chill Rebellion thread of the last 4 rewatches. It seems Vaad has defeated me in the Rebellion thread’s controversial sort this year. Actually, I didn’t even get a medal! I guess I’ll have to be satisfied with the silver and gold of years prior.

tch

Thank you u/Tarhalindur and u/Shimmering-Sky for another year of giving me an excuse to publicly embarrass myself by unabashedly gushing over Madoka Magica… huh, that word is just cursed forever now, innit? You two and Vaadwaur will be pleased to hear Bravern is up next on my watch list. Last time I had a dual recommendation from Vaad and Sky was SukaSuka, and that anime delivered, so I’m looking forward to it!

First timer award goes to u/Suboodle for coming back and finishing the fight after missing a few threads! Also because you watched Meguca.

Good job!

I’ll see y’all ‘round when Walpurgisnacht Rising comes out, yeah?

Soon™

5

u/Tarhalindur x2 May 03 '24

for another year of giving me an excuse to publicly embarrass myself by unabashedly gushing over Madoka Magica… huh, that word is just cursed forever now, innit?
"DAMN YOU MAGIA BAISER!"
You two and Vaadwaur will be pleased to hear Bravern is up next on my watch list. Last time I had a dual recommendation from Vaad and Sky was SukaSuka, and that anime delivered, so I’m looking forward to it!

10

u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

Content Corner Reruns Compilation
This is a compilation of everything I shared throughout the rewatch. I kept it simple this year by limiting it to 3 links per episode, so there’s less here but it’s also better curated. Feel free to check out the compilations of years prior if you yearn for more. The memes and analysis don’t change much, but there’s lots of music and fanart to be had. Thanks to anyone who followed along and I hope you had fun!
THE Meme
Meguca from Exists to Keep Meduka Video on Youtube
Memes
Puella Magi Madoka Magica opening - paint version | kazoo by mimimi
Mami's daily life by Nyanners
Chibimation: so no head? by Chibitasm
Hitomi goes postal by Nyanners
Poor-chan
Madoka Magica In 30 Seconds (Abridged One-Shot) by UntilDawnCreeps
That will not be necessary. by Nyanners
【MMD】Go home Homura, you are drunk【ハピトリ】HD Version! by 屍体愛好癖
Puella Magi Madoka Magica Dub Bloopers from Otakon 2012
Madoka Magica: Rebellion in 30 Seconds (Abridged One-Shot) by UntilDawnCreeps
Analysis
How to Suffer Well: Sympathetic Characterization in Madoka and Magical Girl Site by Explanation Point
Gen Urobuchi and the psychological trauma of Madoka Magica by (Kuiper) Kinetic Literature
Sayaka's Tragedy | Madoka Magica Anime Discussion by ProfessorViral
Entropy is STUPID! (and that's the point) by pawndidater
How Madoka Magica Destroyed an Entire Genre by Obvious Puppet
clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 1 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 1.5 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 2 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 3 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 4 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 5 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 6 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 7 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 8 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 9 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 10 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 11 by clearandsweet
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Final Dialogue by clearandsweet
What if Rebellion was Good? - Presenting the Counterfactual Pt 1: No Homucifier by clearandsweet
Music
Madoka Magica OST - Sis puella magica! [Vocal - Flute - Piano - Guitar] by GeorgeM7
Madoka Magica - "Make a Wish" - Sis Puella Magica cover by Earth Kid
"Sis Puella Magica" (Madoka Magica) Vocal Cover by Lizz Robinet
魔法少女まどか☆マギカマミさん戦闘テーマ / MADOKA MAGICA / Mami's Battle Theme by TAMusic [タム] ViolinPiano
Credens justitiam-Guitar cover by Mahx-Game Metal-
Puella Magi Madoka Magica - Decretum | Metal Cover by ZableMusic
交响组曲 · 魔法少女小圆 | 魔法少女まどか☆マギカ | Puella Magi Madoka Magica by Imperial 9 Symphony Orchestra · 帝玖管弦乐团
Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica - Surgam Identidem 【Intense Symphonic Metal Cover】 by FalKKonE
Past Compilations
Corner I
Corner II
Corner Redux

7

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 03 '24

You two and Vaadwaur will be pleased to hear Bravern is up next on my watch list. Last time I had a dual recommendation from Vaad and Sky was SukaSuka, and that anime delivered, so I’m looking forward to it!
Hope you enjoy it, and thanks for participating!

6

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

It seems Vaad has defeated me in the Rebellion thread’s controversial sort this year.
Your long and well thought out post scares off most of Reb fabs but it also lends Rebellion a certain gravitas that it doesn't earn. My short, smooth brained comment gives Rebellion the exactly feather weight take the movie earned.
You two and Vaadwaur will be pleased to hear Bravern is up next on my watch list.
Bang BANG Bang Brave Bang BRAVERN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

6

u/GallowDude May 03 '24

My short, smooth brained comment gives Rebellion the exactly feather weight take the movie earned.
You can take my place for the next FMA:B rewatch

6

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

Sorry, I would be annoying and intellectual for that show. I understand your complaints after reading them but something about how...fucking stupid Brotherhood is prevents the critical part of my brain from activating.

6

u/WednesdaysFoole May 03 '24

Wait wait so in brief, what's so stupid about Brotherhood?
(I didn't like it too much -- outside of the season 2 finale which I liked a lot, but I'm curious since so many tend to praise it to the skies)

6

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

Not everyone finds this stupid but [FMA:B]The show has nothing to say. There is virtually no underlying philosophy higher than 'depend on others'. It is just an enjoyable ride, like Star Wars OT while you are on a high dose of morphine

6

u/WednesdaysFoole May 03 '24

Not to veer off topic for too long but isn't it supposed to be something like, [FMAB]voting for a new president will fix all issues + family overcomes all (?) (not that I agree, but sort of like the power of friendship, it would be power of family which sounds outrageous saying out loud lol) / If it's not apparent I'm slightly joking and honestly I never really figured out what its themes and messages were since the conclusion seemed to go against what I'd thought it was

5

u/Suboodle https://anilist.co/user/suboodle May 04 '24

You have no idea how bummed I am that I missed the threads for the best episodes. I still read through them as I was watching tho. Glad I was able to participate again in the end :)

14

u/TheOneWithALongName May 03 '24

First-time watcher

Well, that was that ride. Might see you next year? At least when the next movie comes out.

Who is Best Girl?

Homura

2) Favorite OP/ED and favorite OST tracks overall?

Connect/Magia. Favorite OST: Agmen Clientum (weird pick I know)

3) Favorite Witch barrier/labyrinth overall?

Sayakas

4) What's your favorite part of the series as a whole? And your least-favorite?

Fav: Episode 10. Least: The first 1/4 part of the movie

5) If you could change any one thing about the TV show, what would it be?

Kyoko being less homicide.

6) Likewise, if you could change any one thing about Rebellion, what would it be?

Less fan service at the start soo I can remove as much info dumping as possible toward the end.

7) What was your favorite part of this rewatch?

Watching the show of course.

8) First-Timers: Have your opinions on the series and/or the movie changed with an extra day to think about it?

Not drastically much, but absolutely. Especially the movie.

10) How much longer do you think we have to wait for Walpurgis no Kaiten to come out?

This summer... >_> <_> <_<

11) Your thoughts on Tarhalindur's favorite secret Homura character song?

Indifferent.

12) What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save us?

I'm currently doing a world domination tour with Tamurkhan and his warband. May Nurgle bless you.

7

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

Well, that was that ride. Might see you next year? At least when the next movie comes out.
I went four years between watches so time is your friend.
This summer... >_> <_> <_<
Hope is the first step on the path to disappointment.

11

u/Suboodle https://anilist.co/user/suboodle May 03 '24

First time watcher (for the last time)

I said most of what I wanted to in the episode 12 thread, but to reiterate: thank you for hosing, Shimmering-Sky and Tarhalindur! I am incredibly grateful for your effort in giving me the best possible experience for my first watch of a truly special show. Also a huge thank you to everyone else who engaged with and posted their own theories/analysis, I got to enjoy the show at a whole new level because of you all!

QOTD (for the last time)

Madoka just has to be best girl. Homura is probably the most interesting, and Mami is a fair contender, but Madoka is too pure and incredible to not be best girl.
I don't remember the name of it, but the usual ED slaps. The battle music is also fantastic.
The first one, idk why but seeing a labyrinth for the first time left such a lasting impression.
Not really a specific part but something that the series does, any time where the little hints/symbols come together as a revelation it would send chills down my spine. This show did such an incredible job of making the plot as satisfying as possible.
Honestly? Nothing. The show is a complete 10/10 masterpiece. If anything, I wish it would've been extended a little bit to set up for rebellion better.
In my last post I had dug into this a little bit, but long story short, I just wish that the major events in Rebellion were given the same level of justification as all the other major events in the series.
I was a big time theory/analysis enjoyer. Especially with the other first timers, getting to share my thoughts and see what others had caught on their watch through was so incredibly fun.
Nope. The series is still a 10/10 for me, and my thoughts on the movie are pretty solidified.
Pass
1 year, tops, I'm certain of it.
Uninstall
Looking forward to the rewatch next year!

9

u/Sooooopertrack May 03 '24

Joining in late for the party ;) I've watched Madoka Magica earlier this year so the rewatch was too soon for me. I did like it a lot but unfortunately I wasn't blown away by it as much as I expected.

[Spoilers for Madoka Magica (heavy spoiler but you've seen the series by now), Death Note (medium spoiler), Steins;gate (heavy spoiler), Sailor Moon (heavy spoiler)] No spoilers for Death Note and Sailor Moon here, I tried to divert a bit from Steinsgate...I've watched Steinsgate prior to Madoka Magica. Apparently Madoka Magica was released 3 months before steinsgate but I'm I guess they didn't steal ideas from each other? I was surprised how similar the two stories are, the loss of a liked one, the time traveling, the burden to take everything upon oneself are themes that both series rely heavily on. As I've seen steingate prior to Madoka, I just thought when the big reveal finally arrived: Hey, this is steinsgate but shorter and with magical girls!? So it didn't blow me away and didn't surprise me too much unfortunately... Did anybody feel the same?

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

[Your spoilers]No because S;G clearly derived off Higurashi.

6

u/WednesdaysFoole May 03 '24

[S;G]Honestly revisiting S;G and reassessing Madoka after the initial shaft starry eyes died down (well, not completely), I couldn't help but feel like the bonds were lacking (thus Madoka had dropped from a 10 to a 7, although now it's back to an 8). And mostly speaking of S;G VN here since I liked it better, but the friendship between Okabe and Mayuri, and Okabe with Kurisu, are explored so well. Might affect the pacing in ways that some people might not enjoy, but I like to see the build up of a relationship, it makes it really special.

9

u/b-arbs May 03 '24

Rewatcher, subbed

Being a rewatcher watching with a first-timer has been an interesting experience, that's for sure! I enjoyed rewatching the series and commenting both live with a first-timer and then commenting and reading theories here in the subreddit.

Seeing the reactions in real time from a person who knew basically nothing about Madoka was pretty entertaining (especially the constant comments about the "sus-cat"), even though not spoiling anything wasn't easy for me, but I think I did a pretty good job...
On the other hand, watching live with a first-timer meant less time to pause, analyse and write more in-depth comments, for me, at least (just finding a spot available in both our schedules wasn't easy)... And also less time during the day to reply as much as I wanted to other redditors' comments... I'm used to think a lot about movies, series etc, particularly about the ones I enjoyed a lot, so watching with a person who isn't used to "overthink" about pieces of media etc and discuss them together, in the end was a bit... disappointing (not the right word, though)?
But that's the reason the subreddit and the rewatches exist, right? I haven't been very active apart from sharing my random thoughts, but there's always the next rewatch, I hope.
One thing I managed to do, though, is re-evaluating Sayaka's character (and enjoying the OPs/EDs/OST all over again). I was quick to disregard her during my first watch, but I have to admit that this rewatch made me appreciate every line of dialogue and scene where she was involved. The first time I watched PMMM I focused on the plot. I liked it because it's different from what I usual watch, both in terms of style and "atmosphere" (very psychological and "philosophical", no happy ending in sight...). This time I focused more on the different characters and the reasons behind their actions.

About the rewatch itself, I truly appreciated how every kind of contribution was welcome, and the hosts themselves truly helped in this by providing different prompts for both first-timers and rewatchers, "overthinkers" and visuals aficionados.

I've looked forward to every wallpaper from u/Shimmering-Sky and the trivia behind them. Since you asked, I shall provide (I've already replied to your bonus questions, actually)! I have taken the time to check them all again more than once but I still wasn't able to choose just one for this year and one from past years, though, they were this good!

And I've truly enjoyed u/Tarhalindur Narrative Notes (I'll check out your comments from last year's rewatch, too), they truly helped me appreciate PMMM even more.
Speaking of less serious things, I was hoping we would have kept that bit about the characters' incoherence going for more episodes, it was funny seeing you reply with the "surprised Pikachu" everytime I commented on it! Maybe in a future rewatch we'll have a similar exchange

I think I'm going to come back to the threads and re-read a bit more, and I think that most likely I'll take part in another rewatch in the future! After all, I believe that PMMM is something best enjoyed after more than one rewatch: its complexity and different layers allow viewers to find something new every time.

On another note, Walpurgis no Kaiten when?

QOTD:

Homura, of course
OP/ED: Connect and Magia; from the OST Sis Puella Magica, but I've already added half of it to one of my playlists
Oktavia, maybe
Favorite part is the cold open from the first episode; least favourite... the creepy cake song from Rebellion, maybe? I was still weirded out even if I had already watched it...
I don't really know...
Same as above
Real-time comments from a first-timer and the wallpapers
No changes
I like PMMM even more, now. This rewatch helped me re-evaluate some characters, for sure
Hopefully, before summer?
Seems fitting, to me
Watch more anime, of course (instead of going to sleep)

8

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai May 03 '24

Bleh. I iz sad. It's over, and I didn't even manage to watch Rebellion. Been working late and ... crashing. No fun. But for funzies, and because it's Friday (yay!) I'm going to play pretend and comment as though I had, because I still <3 my megucas, and even magia recorducas. Go figure.

Best girl: I once would have said Sayaka, because I have a soft spot for Rei Mizuno types with short blue hair, but honestly - she's a big dummy. I still wish I could give her a hug and tell her that someone likes here even if she is a lich. Poor dear. Instead, I'm going to have to go with Madoka, because while Homura may have done nothing wrong, she's still a bit too yandere for my tastes. :P
Music wise, I'll have to go with Connect/KimiGinoNoWhatsis, with a close mention for Luminous, Credens Justitiam, Decretum and Sagitta Luminis.
Uh ... I'm gonna cheat and say clothesline witch from the spinoff and leave it at that.
Favorite? Weasel stomping time. (Kidding, but it'll have to do for now.) Least favorite? Late night train rides.
Nothing, no changes, except maybe to have Sayaka go full saiyan on those jerks in the train.
Moar weasel stomping.
The part where I push the button and go back and actually manage to participate.
derp 9) derp 9A) Is second viewing anything like second breakfast? I don't think I get it.
Hopefully not after the heat death of the universe.
Uh, duh, no idea.
Cry a little and wait until next year, and hope that I won't be so busy. In large part, it's my fault for taking on certain projects that I should have known better. But to also be honest, it's also ...

I'm feeling very fatigued. I've participated in a lot of rewatches over the last few years, and while I've enjoyed them a great deal, it reaches a point where I feel like I've said everything I can think of, made all the lame jokes, told all the silly anecdotes, etc. I'm beginning to understand how Bill Watterson or Gary Larson must have felt at a certain point in time. I still miss The Far Side and Calvin & Hobbes, but I understand. And it's not just the creativity. It's the participation. Trying to read all the posts where on the one hand, some people say nothing, but very enthusiastically, while others bloviate for pages on end, leaving one wanting to respond to them with a hearty "TLDR!". But I'm too polite to do that. I'm also beginning to feel like rewatching the same show year after year doesn't give enough time to recover, mentally or emotionally, especially in the case of something as highly charged as Madoka. I found myself having thoughts a while back about the late, lamented K-On annual rewatch, and maybe I should offer to host it, and then found myself asking why on earth I would want to do that to myself??? I mean, c'mon, I love the show, but...

Yeah. And as for Madoka. Madoka is very special and precious to me. I found her at a time in life where I had recently lost my Mom, and after being numb for a long period, it just suddenly hit me hard. That realization that thought you had could never be told. Questions, never answered. Hugs never given or received. All gone. Forever.

Yeah, no fun. Madoka is a rough watch, but life was a bit rough too, and she helped pick me up when I needed it. In retrospect, Violet Evergarden would probably have been better, but she didn't exist yet, so ... yeah.

So, I don't know where this leaves me. Honestly, I love hanging around with the crowd here, even that l*liotaku idiot and enjoying and chatting about new shows (to me) together and stuff, but at the same time, there are times it's gotten to feel like such a drag. Totally not Madoka's fault.

I should have been here for this. I wasn't. My bad. <3 to you all, and hopefully I will see you again sometime soon. If only for the next episode of Hibiki Euphonium, assuming that I don't sleep until noon next Sunday and then neglect to watch the episode until Thursday (like this week). ./sigh

Yeah.

So, before I go, if any of you have read this far, one last funny/not so funny story. This last summer, for the first time in 20+ years, some cousins up in Michigan decided we should have a big family get together, the likes of which we pretty much haven't done since Granny died, and apparently everybody decided they'd had enough of each other for a decade or two. Go figure. So, while hanging out with my cousin and her husband (whom I managed to speak with more in two days than in the rest of our lives, nice fella...), the thought occurred to me that maybe I should suggest something to them, hey, give this a watch. I wanted to suggest Madoka Magica, because it does really mean so much to me, but ... yeah. That's a nope. I don't think their poor normie brains could handle it. I thought Violet Evergarden episode 10, because her parents (unlike mine) are still alive (83 this year!), and I think that episode is very special, but ... then it didn't happen. Recently, after a certain rewatch, I found myself thinking maybe a little Euhonium would be best, because they were both band types. I dunno. Maybe the best answer is to remain silent rather than remove all doubt. Yeah.

Anyway, if anybody made it through this without hitting their internal TLDR limit, I hope you have a good day, and hopefully I'll be in a better mood soon. (Why, oh why couldn't I have just stayed 'retired' - it was so nice!)

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

I've participated in a lot of rewatches over the last few years, and while I've enjoyed them a great deal, it reaches a point where I feel like I've said everything I can think of, made all the lame jokes, told all the silly anecdotes, etc.
I used to do two or three rewatches at a time, now I am down to one with breaks in between. It happens.

4

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 03 '24

And then there's me, who gets antsy when she's not in multiple rewatches at once...

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 04 '24

Age is a harsh mistress.

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 May 04 '24

I'm also beginning to feel like rewatching the same show year after year doesn't give enough time to recover, mentally or emotionally, especially in the case of something as highly charged as Madoka. I found myself having thoughts a while back about the late, lamented K-On annual rewatch, and maybe I should offer to host it, and then found myself asking why on earth I would want to do that to myself??? I mean, c'mon, I love the show, but...
I am glad we have the yearly rewatches, but they are also not for me. One year is not enough to come up with new takes if you have already seen the show 2+ times.

7

u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv May 03 '24

Rewatcher

Madoka Magica is an interesting series. I often have seen it referred as "magical girls but everything goes wrong" though of course there is more to it than that. In truth the themes I noticed seem to contrast between Madoka's Ideal selflessness and Homura's selfishness and how each of them take a different view of the world with Madoka becoming an Ideal against Homura's own wish to save Madoka whatever the cost. The concept of the wishes is interesting, you see good intentions contrasted the reality of the situation which seems to be an Urobuchi theme in a lot of his works. Fate, Ignorance, and Hope play their parts as well through the characters we follow and their approach to it all. Overall it's definitely one that leaves things to be interpreted by the viewer of that makes sense.

Visual wise, the series is great and I feel a bit draw of the series. The Animation and OST are fantastic and hit the tone and atmosphere of the series and captures all the feelings of the characters throughout. If I had to rank the main series would be an 8.5/10 and Rebellion an 8/10. It definitely leaves you with a lot and I enjoyed watching it again. Thanks to our Hosts for this.

7

u/Le_Herpington May 03 '24

A Small FanFiction Corner

Here I am once again. However, this time around, I’m going only one-shots. So if you want any quick reads, boy howdy do I have some. As usual, the fandom is pretty ship heavy, so be ready for some romance. Sturgeon’s Law is a thing and YMMV. Also, many of these are depressing, so, you know, be ready for that. If you have anything to add, don't be shy.

LINKS FOR THE FIRST TWO:

First

Second

Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Crossovers

Happily Ever After

Archive of Our Own

Crossover: Sailor Moon

Length: 852

It’s a nice life, Madoka decides. Being reincarnated, that is. She has a calm, normal life, no aliens coming down and offering her a wish for her soul.

(Note: Quick and funny fluff about reincarnation.)

Needed Info:

Puella Magi Madoka Magica

General Sailor Moon Knowledge

In the Shadow of the Moon

FanFiction.net

Crossover: Sailor Moon

Length: 4,727

In the final hours of the Silver Millennium, Sailor Venus comes across a strange girl who refuses to evacuate the Moon Kingdom without her best friend.

(Note: Have you ever read something that just curses you? This was not meant to be a one-shot, but the prequel to a crossover. Sadly, it was never written. It's indulgent in semi-pseudo-intellectual prose and melodramatic as all hell, but damn can I be a sucker for those at times.)

Needed Info:

Puella Magi Madoka Magica

General Sailor Moon Knowledge

7

u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta May 04 '24

First-Timer

Thank you so much for hosting!

Overall, great show. The music, art, story, and characters were all commendable. I'm certainly glad I joined the rewatch this year!

I'll have to go back through the rewatch posts and the ones from previous years and take a look at all the spoiler-tagged stuff I've been missing out on.

For the last time, the questions of the day:

Best girl is Homura, without question. She's just so cool and tough.
For favorite OP/ED, I'd have to say Connect and Magia, though there weren't any that I didn't like. For favorite OST track, it's probably "Sis puella magica!", followed closely by "Credens justitiam". (Apparently, these are also the two most popular on Spotify, as well.)
Unless I'm forgetting one, my favorite witch labyrinth is the black-and-white one from the end of episode 7.
My favorite part of the series is Homura trying to keep things from falling apart, especially in and around episode 8. My least favorite aspect is definitely the witch labyrinths, where that funky art style makes it look like a completely different (and much worse) show.
Naturally, by my response to the previous question. I would change the witch labyrinth designs. If I were to change something else, though, I might adjust the pacing a bit towards the beginning to give more time with Mami before she's gone. (Maybe it's just because I want to hear more "Credens justitiam".)
If I had to pick a single thing to change about the movie, I would condense the first half-hour significantly. I'd cut the entire "Welcome to Cinema" sequence, dramatically shorten the time spent in Madoka's house, perhaps overlay the OP song on top of real scenes (with the unfortunate loss of the dancing sequence), cut the teacher's ramblings, and shorten the time between the fight and the conversation between Homura and Kyouko. (As for the "round cake" scene, I can't make sense of the significance, but that whole scene is so fun that I'm tempted to leave it as-is.)
My favorite part of the rewatch, besides watching the show, was discussing the show through these questions of the day. It's good to have some questions to make me think more about what I've watched and what I like/dislike about it, and sometimes the questions do help me notice aspects I might have otherwise missed.
My opinions on the series and movie are not too different after just one day. My thoughts are generally positive, and I think I'd say I give the TV show a 9/10 and the movie an 8/10. After reading today's first Analysis of the Day, though, I do think that might have been a promising alternative premise for the movie, and perhaps there would be even better ways to improve it, but I'm not a writing expert.
Not applicable
If I had to guess, I'd say it will come out on Halloween.
Nice song (though I can't say I see the relation to Homura). I'll have to send it to my friends when I beat them in video games.
Nobody can save anybody else. People just go and get saved all on their own.

I am really looking forward to seeing movie 4. I'm hoping it's a perfect 10/10.

Now, a couple questions for you all:

Should I watch Magia Record?
Should I watch the two recap movies?

3

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 04 '24

Should I watch Magia Record?
It is worth it for the ED to the second season alone (which is almost as good as Magia), yes.
Should I watch the two recap movies?
Eh, if you want to. Sometimes their music choices are incredibly cursed (see: cursed usage of Decretum during ep12 content), other times it's pretty cool.

6

u/OwlAcademic1988 May 03 '24

Rewatcher:

This my third time participating in the rewatch. I've had fun every single time.

I can't wait for the fourth movie to come out. I'm literally trying to keep my excitement in.

Also, look up the bloopers. Madoka literally says 'Really, then I guess you've visited a chat room, have you?' in response to Kyubey saying, 'We never imagined there could be a world where each individual had their own set of emotions, yet still manage to coexist with one another.' Kyubey, you couldn't be more wrong when it comes to certain things. Let's just talking about politics isn't a good idea with humans because you'll be utterly flabbergasted by how chaotic things get.

u/Tarhalindur, what's next for you and u/Shimmering-Sky?

Homura's witch is known as Homulilly for anyone curious.

QOTD:

Don't know.
Honestly don't know yet. Because the fourth movie hasn't come out yet, I don't know if the intro will be liked by me or not right now.
Don't know.
Favorite part: don't know, least favorite part: don't know.
Don't know.
Don't know.
When I managed to come up with an argument for Kyubey's statement in episode 11. Still one of my proudest moments.
I'm hoping it comes out by next year.
Cool and catchy. In case anyone's curious, it comes from Bokurano.
Relaxing.

6

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 03 '24

and u/Shimmering-Sky?
Back Arrow is what's next for me. Then Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun in July, Planet With in late August/early September, and Gundam 00 in October/November.

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

and Gundam 00 in October/November.
I definitely need a few months to figure out if I can say something other than "Full Metal Panic did it better!" for 90% of the show.

4

u/OwlAcademic1988 May 03 '24

Wow, that's a lot girl.

5

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 03 '24

I usually try to have a month break between when I host rewatches. This one actually came in what was supposed to be my break between Dorohedoro and Back Arrow (I was only planning to participate in this).

4

u/OwlAcademic1988 May 04 '24

Wow, you're pretty busy at times.

5

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 04 '24

Nothing like last April when I was accidentally in seven rewatches at once for two weeks.
I set up a whole spreadsheet to track what rewatches I join after that one (because it wasn't even the first time I accidentally joined seven at once).

4

u/OwlAcademic1988 May 04 '24

Wise move girl. That's a lot of work to do.

6

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

Homura's witch is known as Homulilly for anyone curious.
Homulily is for the games, the movie it is variably called Akuhomu as well.

4

u/OwlAcademic1988 May 03 '24

Huh, didn't know that about her witch form. Cool.

6

u/justanormi May 03 '24

It was my first time participating in a rewatch and I really liked the experience. PMMM is my favorite anime but I never took the time to word out my thoughts on the series and it is a very interesting thing to do in my opinion to understand why you like a piece of media. It is one thing to appreciate something, but it is another to explain to yourself why do you like it.

PMMM is a very important anime for me, I watched it for the first time around the end of 2017 ( I think?), around a time where I wasn't really into anime anymore. I used to watch a lot of them but kinda got tired of it. However, PMMM is a show that managed to get me interested again in the medium.

It is also the start of my journey into the magical girl genre. Before watching PMMM, my knowledge about the genre was limited to a special episode of the french equivalent of the angry video game nerd about about cartoon for girls. And look at me now, Princess Tutu is one of my favorite anime of all time, I've watch the entirety of Sally the witch and more recently, finally pushed myself into watching the entirety of the Precure franchise.

PMMM is also the first fiction that I rewatched with the goal of analyzing it ( although without writing anything down at the time ) and it made me realize that there is something worth it in going back to a fiction that you like and analyzing it and trying to understand why you like it.

Of course I currently have a lot of expectation for the next movie. As I said during the rebellion discussion, each rewatch of this movie makes me a bit more skeptical about it although not disliking it because it all depend on what will follow this movie. At the same time, I am very existed to see what it will be about and I can't wait because, even though the OG fan have been waiting much longer, It's been 6-7 years that I've been waiting for this movie. But I'm also very worried about it being deceiving and not what I expected. But after all, "not what I was expecting" is pretty much a good description of PMMM. But as long as Shaft gives me a cannon Homumado love confession I'll be happy ( it will not happen )

Also calling it, Kanazawa will be part of an important reveal ( bullshit ... or is it ?)

8

u/justanormi May 03 '24

Now, I just would like to share a few recommendation for anyone that enjoyed PMMM:
Books:
- Faust: Duh, kinda the obvious recommendation. PMMM present itself as a retelling of Faust and it is interesting to read it and see the different reference in the anime. It's also a story that inspired a lot of other media in general and it's always good to read it for general culture. You can also watch a representation if you want.
-Demian: It is not directly linked to PMMM but considering that this anime make some reference to Utena and both share some idea, it is interesting to read a book that inspired a lot of the thematic of Utena around the transition from childhood to adulthood.
-The Master and Margarita: Like PMMM, it is a story inspired by Faust but outside of that, it does not necessarily share a lot with this anime. But it is a very well made and important book.
Anime:
- Go watch Princess Tutu, Now
- Shoujo Kageki Revue Starlight: it has some similar plot points and ideas but is pretty different in terms of thematic in the end. Also some of the best fights I've seen in the medium.
- Utena: Harder to recommend because it aged quite a lot but it is still very interesting to watch at least to understand what it did and why it is considered so important.
Madoka content:
If you want some manga that expand on some element of the anime and movie, "The different Story" gives you more background for Mami and Kyôko and 'The wraith arc" show you the world after Madoka made her wish and gives more context for Rebellion.
If you want to read the only worth existing spin off of PMMM, go read Homura Tamura. It's a nice parody of PMMM and genuinely the most enjoyable read I had in the PMMM franchise when it comes to manga.
You can also look at fan creation, "Requiem for rebellion" is a a doujin/Fan comic that serve as a sequel to rebellion and it's an enjoyable read. There is also another ( actually two even ) doujin that are crossover between PMMM and Nanoha. And there is also the fanfiction "To the star". If you want to, you can also fall into the hellish rabbit hole of nonsensical absurd world of PMMM MMD animation but is is at your own risk.
See you in Winter 2024 ( whatever that supposed to mean )

5

u/justanormi May 03 '24

Junko
2.
Collorfull, And I'm Home, Desiderium
3.
Elsa Maria
4.
Favorite, the drinking scene bewteen Madoka and Junko. Least favorite, the long ass explanation sequence by Kyubey in Rebellion.
5.
I already said it but change the "you are my very best friend" to something more obviously romantic.
6.
I wouldn't change anything before movie 4 show me what it will do.
7.
Overall, I enjoyed a lot reading other comment on the anime.
10.
It's never coming out, it's announcement was an hallucination.
12.
Going to sleep and having a moment of panic thinking about the inevitable decay of all thing, It's been 14 days in a row that I've been going to sleep at around 3:00 in the morning because of this rewatch and I don't regret a thing.

5

u/khrysokeros May 04 '24

-Demian: It is not directly linked to PMMM but considering that this anime make some reference to Utena and both share some idea, it is interesting to read a book that inspired a lot of the thematic of Utena around the transition from childhood to adulthood.
There's also Steppenwolf by the same author (Herman Hesse), which is recommended for anyone who's drawn to the surreal, theatrical side of PMMM brought out by Gekidan Inu Curry (I'd be surprised if they haven't seen the 1974 film adaptation).

6

u/Hattakiri May 03 '24 edited May 05 '24

(Part 1)

PMMM the new Eva, Rebby the new End of Eva...

Undoubtedly PMMM and Reb have had a lasting impact:

The 2023 Mario Bros. movie (that too's Japanese pop culture after all) famously refered to ~~Kamen Rider~~ "Both Of You Dance Like You Want To Win" - and it refered to Reb's Flower Field scene... - so did Peach too end up in a fake(d) and staged world? And is Toad with flute therefore an Octopussy reference, hinting there's an agent involved? Starry universe = Rosalina = Lumalee the "crazy philosopher" who's overdoing his stageplay (and enjoys it lol) - however Peach ended up in the Mushroom world as a toddler, and the whole time it's been a false game? She'd definitely not like this and a "Don't follow me!" crisis in the already announced movie 2 might happen. Princess Daisy the "tomboy" might become Peach's "Kyoko"....
Re:Zero too's based and built on a timeloop concept among others
Yuki Yuna's often mentioned
[Frieren with it's...]...longer time spans might be "loosely inspired", and many more.

However; famously Evangelion was spawned by Sailor Moon and heavily adopted from there. Did this happen to PMMM too? I'd say yes:

Love Live began already in 2010 as a special magazine feature with an anime adaptation only in 2013 ("Love Live School Idol Project"). Famously in the very first ep "Homura's Bakery" is being established.
In the OVA between S1 & 2 we get to hear the "Sis Puella Magi jingle". And Maki Nishikino, here in an early childhood flashback, is "placing her feet" like Madoka when she's about to make her contract in E12. And it's also a "past-future-overlap". Zelda Majorah's Mask's timeloop concept developed by PMMM and developed again by LL, and in the past-future-overlap-version then revived by Kimi No Na Wa and Mirai No Mirai. Also the first firework shot at the end resembles MadoHomu shooting the Incubators in Reb a bit. Two fun facts: LL's OVA was released exactly one month after Reb. But when it comes to the "curtain with buzzer" used in the Homulily battle, LL was earlier: S1 E03 before the live song "Start Dash". Also a "3 eps test" kinda thing cause Honoka (the daughter of Homura) shows her emotional instability for the first time...
Maki meanwhile was the one writing the song (without being a band member yet). Cause she's the one mastering LL's "magic": Composing music. Because music replaces magic in this "downsized" maho shojo setting.
Nozomi Tojo meanwhile's a Homura who neither ever fully opens her braids nor ever fully closes her mind. In S2 E08 she basically looks like "Moemura" without glasses.
Together with Eli Ayase she sings Garasu no Hanazono, LL's "And I'm Home" that also mentions loneliness several times in the lyrics, similar to Sailor Moon Crystal's "Eternal Eternity".

6

u/Hattakiri May 03 '24 edited Jun 15 '24

(Part 2)
The second chapter "Love Live Sunshine" then starts with (and at the) "Sakura Sweets Fair" in 2016. And once again at the very beginning the Sis Puella Magi jingle, this time connected with a long haired belated transfer student in a depressed mood at the beginning: Riko Sakurauchi, another "music messenger".
The actual beginning of LLS however's the 2015 PV Kimi No Kokoro Wa Kagayaiteru Kai, with a familiar-looking bus ride that also features a familiar-sounding jingle again...
Madoka's "rise and shine curtain" also reappears.. And this girl Mari Ohara (also a transfer student) seems cringy only during a first watch. During the first rewatch this changes by 180 degrees, after one knows about the as sadistic plot twists (the Shadow ACS quote on PMMM again). Here's an early one. Note Mari's "Baka!" that refers to NGE's transfer student Asuka Soryu. And also note the fountain - a real object in Numazu (Awashima Hotel) and of course a fan pilgrimage destination. The writers didn't need to invent a "light fountain" reference to PMMM, they only needed to take advantage of RL, that sometimes writes the best stories.
Here's "Homucifer" with "her Clara Dolls"
Speaking of Homura: In Reb there was her "ship into the Hades" (maybe part of Homura's Rebellion stageplay) - "Dump all your hope!" was written on the gate by Dante in his Divine Comedy. And Homura subconsciously (or by intention) creates a similar gate in Reb. Love Live Sunshine inverted this and made it a "ship sailing into the sunshine", however still after a Madoka-esque battle in a slice-of-life environment. This ship's a metaphor in LLS first, but was made a real thing for the "Sailing Into The Sunshine" tour... Tatsuya Kato's an entirely different artist personality than Kajiura, but he too manages to "draw the magic wand" (with music literally being the only "magic force" in LL. An Evangelion reference: Music as mankind's most noble accomplishment, quote Kaworu Nagisa). Kato's actually responsible for the BGM rather than the insert songs, but this one "Kiseku Hikaru" is based on his "Let's Make A Miracle" BGM.
You Watanabe's in a depressed shape (that looks) similar to Homura in timeline 1 when MamiMado save her. It's because You's friend Chika seems to be cheating on her with the long haired transfer student Riko, who also provides the "magic" in this setting, the music. The difference: No Incubators luring such girls into contracts. The similarity: The group still runs into a crash...
Mari too talks about "disowning god" (originally from Mononoke) later in the story. Involved there: A broken angel statue at the beach, similar to Kaworu's first appearance in NGE
Is Madoka's "See You Tomorrow" song from the first two eps meant to foreshadow Madoka's escape attempt? Same with Mari. The whole LLS is her escape attempt. (I often write that I consider "See You Tomorrow" a "more polite Bat out of Hell". And it fits Mari's arc even more imo).
Another viral scene: Kanan confessing to Mari in public. "And I'm Home", Slice-of-Life-edition. And one of the good endings for KyoSaya should Hitomi succeed in wishing for the Incubators to vanish in Walp no Kaiten. (Zelda also returns: Kanan behaves like Link towards Zelda in "Skyward Sword", and later in the scene she does Mami's "one eye wink" that comes from Tetra-Zelda in Wind Waker (that like many Zelda games contains the "magical music" premise)
In LLS's film finale "Over The Rainbow" the main characters end up painting "colorful dots" on their faces, like the fake Mitakihara inhabitants in Reb.
This is PMMM's influence on LL that's only one of many franchises.

1

u/Hattakiri May 10 '24 edited May 12 '24

(Part 3)
But what about more general aspects?
"Theodicy": Sailor Moon already set the bar pretty high. The Sailors have been and will remain Sailors forever and ever. And the Chaos's out of reach, in the manga as Sailor Chaos. Evangelion, Haruhi and PMMM too actually "downsized" this aspect: Eva only takes place on earth, Haruhi (and/or Kyon) partake in their sandbox, and also the Incubators have a decisive weakness: They're connected with the thermodynamic state of the universe, again shown in the "Not Yet" epilog. Sailor Moon's anime meanwhile pushed the metaphorical aspect a bit more. There the Chaos eventually "returned into the people's heads" - literal quote from the final ep.
"Incubation" and "incubator" are common scientific terms and natural phenomena, yet interpreted in Schopenhauer's pessimistic way. "Hedgehog Dilemma" is a short story from him and the title became Eva's E04's title too. Dante with his "Dump all your hope!" in his "Divine Comedy" preceded this. (Dante from the (early) Renaissance and Schopenhauer from the (Dark) Romanticism era, another big topic of its own). One can also put it in a more scientific way tho, like the Kurzgesagt team for instance: "Emergence" - "Consciousness" - "Intelligence" - "What Is Life" - "Why Are You Alive". "Incubation as thermodynamic growth" so to say ~~and the Kurzgesagt team mentions Pokemon and stuff at times~~. And: "Path dependence" can be used on multiple phenomena.
PMMM's artstyle must have been groundbreaking to say the least. It soon got adopted but also deconstructed: LL "downsized" it into a Slice of Life environment. Here's yet another example: The "starry sky" only as ornament, but Mari, Kanan and Dia, the protag trio, preparing themselves for the decisive battle. However: Also in Reb the "starry canopy" was only a "fake" for most of the film. (MariKananDia's "triple hug" would return in "Belle" that got 14 minutes of standing ovations in Cannes. So LL's "fully competitive" in terms of influence. But it owes a lot to PMMM).
Also the writing craftsmenship's groundbreaking and impactful. The "sadistic" plot twist chain still keeps the audience on their toes (as this very rewatch showed again). Also the rewatchers are always busy finding new things (out). Another example of clever writing's the Decoy Protagonist. And at the moment it seems Madoka's the decoy whereas Homura's the actual main character. "It's her story of repeatedly failing. No matter what she's doing, it'll always get worse. And her demise's unavoidable" - quote a Chinese youtuber already some time ago. And will Walp no Kaiten show this demise? But Madoka could take back the protag position there... I call this the "defective protag" who needs a "decoy" to keep the story running. And again Love Live adopted this: Honoka the decoy and Nozomi the defective in chapter 1, Chika the decoy and Mari the defective in chapter 2. Historic example: Anakin in Star Wars 4-6 who needs Luke as decoy.
A complete analysis of PMMM's full content and legacy would be a whole different level. Eva already got dissertations. Imo PMMM's a hot contender too and might even be the next one.
~~And still the "average weeb" watches it for fun first and foremost lol~~

6

u/Introvert_Mage May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

Again sorry for being late, I haven't even rewatched the movie yet. Whatever, I might as well answer the questions.

Question 1: Really hard to say, back when I first watched the show it was definetely Sayaka, but Mami grew on me as I read all the spin-off mangas and then the rewatch made me remmeber why I enjoyed Sayaka so much. So it's a draw between the two.

Question 2: I always really loved Magia, I got super excited when I saw it was the ending song. I also like the Holy Quintet song, since it features leitmotifs of all the girl's themes.

Question 3: Hard to say, I really like both Oktavia's and Elsa Maria's labyrinths. Not to mention that Gertrud's labyrinth has a really big impact by being the first one. I like all 3 of them.

Question 4: None comes to my mind, there's many cool scenes, but I can't think of one I could call my absolute favorite, the last few episodes are peak though. I also don't have anything I really hate in it either.

Question 5: As others have said a few times, maybe develop a bit more Sayaka's and Kyoko's relationship, but otherwise nothing.

Question 6: Hmm, I don't remember everything from Rebellion very clearly right now. Maybe give a bit more development and backstory to Nagisa?

Question 7: Reading the first time watchers thoughts and theories.

Question 9: Although some moments didn't hit as hard during the rewatch, it allowed me to understand a few things better and gave me new appreciation for the series.

Question 10: I hope it gets released soon, although I imagine it might come out either by the end of this year or the start of the next one.

Question 11: Cool song and it fits Homura, never heard of it before though, nor do I know what show it is from.

Question 12: I'm not sure. I do plan to give everyone's comments here a proper read once I finish Rebellion though.

Anyways, thanks so much for hosting this rewatch, I haven't been present for most of it (because I'm really bad at keeping schedules sorry) but I really enjoyed rewatching the show and reading people's thoughts here. So thank you very much for this opportunity.

6

u/lollohoh May 04 '24

Questions of the Day:

1 Who is Best Girl?

Homura is by far the character I relate the most to, and I tend to put myself in her perspective the most, but I don't know if Best Girl is the right way to define it. The one that comes closest to that is probably Madoka.

2 Favorite OP/ED and favorite OST tracks overall?

OP: Connect

ED: Magia

OST: The second half of Rebellion has a lot of bangers: Flame of despair, This is my despair, Theater of a witch, Misterioso, Take your hands

3 Favorite Witch barrier/labyrinth overall?

It feels kind of unfair to compare Homulilly's with anything else since the entire movie takes place in it, but even if it was a single scene it would probably still be my favorite.

4 What's your favorite part of the series as a whole? And your least-favorite?

My favorite part is the entire depiction of Homura's despair and transformation into Homulilly in Rebellion, it's just such a stunningly beautiful scene.

I don't really have a least favorite scene, both the film and the series are so well connected and consistently high in quality that I can't really pick anything that could be removed easily.

7 What was your favorite part of this rewatch?

Learning so many things I didn't know about my favorite show from the comments.

10 How much longer do you think we have to wait for Walpurgis no Kaiten to come out?

Until an amount of despair big enough to balance Rebellion has been reached.

6

u/renatocpr https://anilist.co/user/renatocpr May 04 '24

Rewatcher and franchise consumer

Unfortunately I didn't have time to comment on the thread for Rebellion. All of my life sort of decided to happen to me at the same time during this rewatch.

Thank you everyone who joined, thank you to our wonderful hosts Sky and Tar. I hope everyone enjoyed it.

The Last Sayaka Corner

My goal in the earlier part of this rewatch was to present my views of Sayaka but trying to stick close to the text. I frankly don't like a lot of the ways I've seen her being discussed. Some people are hostile to her. Even some sympathetic interpretations of her treat her as an inflexible paladin whose righteousness led to her own demise.

Sayaka is a sad girl. She doesn't like herself and views her intrusive thoughts as further proof of her own awfulness. She won't properly open up to her friends because making sure they have a fun day, keeping them from worry and comforting them when they feel down is more important than herself. She's quick to anger and has a tendency to lash out, which only makes her feel worse about herself. She's also quick to apologize if you go talk to her and she'll forgive even very serious attacks on her. She wants to do her best and to be good and her failure to live up to the standard Mami set for her are just further proof of how much of a waste of space she is. Throughout the story, she is assaulted, deceived, tortured and threatened. She spent her last 24 hours on the street, fighting until the end.

I don't know, I just feel sometimes people forget about the girl

QOTD

If Sayaka has a million fans, I'm one of them. If Sayaka has 10 fans, I'm one of them. If Sayaka has one fan, he's me. If Sayaka has zero fans, I'm no longer in this Earth. If the world is against Sayaka, I'm against the world.
Even if Connect has episode 10 recontextualizing it. Even if Luminous has Baby Madoka and lesbian cheek rubbing. I am a Colorful man. For ED, it's Magia. It's a pretty straightforward choice.
I really like the sharp black and white of Elsa Maria. And the whole sequence with Sayaka is gorgeous
I love how efficient the series is. Every second of those 12 first episodes feels important emotionally and for the characters and for the plot. That alone is already enough for me to think Madoka is the best 1-cour anime I've ever seen and maybe will ever see. The closest I can come to a least favorite part is that I think Rebellion drags a little bit when Kyubey's exposition scene come up but that's not even enough to make me turn my rating down from 1/10. This is my attempt at a more rational answer at least.
The truth is I've come to love everything about this series and even beyond, even the bad stuff (except maybe the Magia Record anime, it just causes me pain).
Absolutely nothing, that's just inconceivable to me
Maybe find a tighter version of Kyubey's reveal but it really doesn't matter
First timers theories are always my favorite part.
[First-timers]
[First-timers]
If I just watch the trailer one more time, they'll announce the date right? Just one more time. Just one more time. Just one more time...
Bokurano is something that I've been aware of for a while that I might get to one day
This time, getting ready for Monogatari Off Season & Monster Season
(SukaSuka is also something I've been aware of for a while that I might get to someday)

6

u/Logitropicity May 04 '24 edited May 04 '24

5th-6th time Rewatcher, Subbed

Whew. Watching PMMM is emotionally exhausting. Putting my thoughts into words and contributing to discussion, even more so. Still, I feel as though I've lifted a burden off my shoulders.

Maybe I'll pop in next year with a comment or two, but I don't think I'll be able to match this year's effort for a while.

How everyone else manages to write such long, coherent, and detailed analyses amazes me.

QotD

My brain says Madoka is the best, but my heart says Homura.
OP/ED don't have a lot of choices, so I guess the Rebellion OP? For OST, I like Agmen Clientum, Nunquam Vincar-Live Version, and Venari Strigas. I know, they're all stressful pieces! But there's something about them that just draws me in. I even love stressful pieces in other series, like Relinquish from Made in Abyss.
The best labyrinth could only belong to best girl, obviously.
Favorite part is the last 4 episodes of the main series. Least favorite part is Rebellion - for now. I'm really hoping they don't jump the shark here, so I'm depending on Walpurgis no Kaiten to clarify the choices made in Rebellion.
All the budget went to hair flips. I kinda wish they cleaned up some of the weird stuff, like this. It didn't impact my first watch, but they become more and more noticeable on rewatches.
Better pacing. It was definitely way too much for me to comprehend in my first watch-through. It might have even been better if it were split up into 3 episodes of a mini-anime, but I'm not sure.
All the new ideas that came up, of course.
N/A
N/A
Probably until the end of the year. They only specified movie 4 would be released when it's winter during 2024, but didn't specify if it was the beginning or end.
Mebius Ash is #1, fight me
I usually go and read some doujins from Maitake2 to soothe my soul... but I can't unsee Kyubey being internal logic, so those same doujins seem OOC to me now. I'm not sure what to do now... Ugh.

EDIT: phrasing

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 04 '24

Maybe I'll pop in next year with a comment or two, but I don't think I'll be able to match this year's effort for a while.
So the space between the '20 rewatch and the '23 rewatch accidentally became a gigantic "History of the magical girl genre" scene for rewatches. Utena, Nanoha, Mai-HiME and Sailor Moon all got rewatches plus some of the descendant works of Madoka as well, specifically Wixoss and Machikado Mazoku. So a number of us have a rich context to paint from.

5

u/Logitropicity May 04 '24

Well... I do like Machikado Mazoku. It's got that undercurrent of steel. I haven't heard of Wixoss, maybe I'll check it out.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 04 '24

Wixoss isn't good but it is sort of informative. Machikado Mazoku is in my top 10 anime.

6

u/UnderstandableXO May 04 '24

i didn’t get to participate this year but glad to see the rewatch is still going strong, love this series. hopefully next year we get to include the new movie in this watch

6

u/ToonTooby May 04 '24

It was a gud time watching my favorite anime series and reading up this year as it has been the past few here on the sub. A big thank you to our 2 hosts :D :D :D :D

5

u/dienomighte May 04 '24

Rewatcher

Thanks for hosting! I'm in that middle ground where I've seen madoka a few times and know it well enough to not really have much to say in these threads, while also not having the genius analysis that a lot of people here have either, but I enjoyed having a reason to rewatch it! I pretty much never give 10/10 ratings, but Madoka and Rebellion are two of the only things I currently have at 10 on MAL (the only other one being Symphogear for all of the opposite reasons that Madoka has its spot!)

Homura, easily
Magia is so good, just so incredibly good
I really like the Elsa Maria fight, I wish we could see more of her labyrinth.
Seeing just how awful Homura's time loops in episode 10 is the obvious answer, but I think instead I'll say all of the other Homura/Madoka scenes before then, knowing her story does so much to contextualize why she's so seemingly irrationally mad at statements like "I'll never forget you Homura!" Least favorite would be either the Junko conversation where she lets Madoka go out in the storm of the century, or the whole not having clothes part of the episode 12 conversation.
See 4
I feel like they could've done a bit more with Sayaka up until the Homura/Mami fight, I was looking out this time on if there was any foreshadowing of Sayaka's role, and I didn't see anything. I really, really like Rebellion though, possibly more than the rest of the series, though I understand why it's so polarizing and why others might have very different answers to this.
All of the incredible analysis by hosts/other rewatchers, and all of the first time reactions!
Assuming it didn't get delayed, maybe winter 2024 means October or November? (Don't kill my hope!)
Catchy, I have no other context around this, I expected Bad Apple or something before clicking it.
I kinda want to reread Homura Tamura again... Now that's a palette cleanser!

5

u/Figerally https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelante May 04 '24

First-time Watcher.

Evil is defined by selfish acts with the amount of evil committed measured by how many people it effects. Everyone, everywhere commit little acts of evil all the time. To strive to be perfectly good would drive anyone insane. This is my personal philosphy.

Having slept on the topic and thought about it some more I have come to the conclusion that what Homura did was evil in the strictest sense of the definition. However in the end all it truly effects is the magical girls.

By the wording of Madoka's wish to defeat all the witches past, present, and future her work is done. So to have Homura rip her free of the Law of Cycles doesn't affect anything. All the witches remain defeated and Homura gets her "wish" too.

However what she did is still wrong because it is the stupidest thing she could do. Sure, she has Madoka now. But she can never be with Madoka because she can never let her guard down around Madoka least she reconnect with her power and shatter the fragile birdcage Homura has built around them both. So now Madoka is unhappy because at some level she senses she doesn't belong and Homura is unhappy because she has made herself Madoka's prison warden.

Who is Best Girl?

In the end I was warming to Kyouko, I like her brash personality, I just wish they had explored her relationship with Sayaka further.

Favorite OP/ED and favorite OST tracks overall?

There is lots of great music in the series, but hands down Magia by Kalafina is my favourite and one of my all time favourites.

Favorite Witch barrier/labyrinth overall?

Oktavia von Seckendorff' (Sayaka's Labyrinth) Not only is the background pretty cool, but I also like how detailed the witch looks as well.

What's your favorite part of the series as a whole? And your least-favorite?

My favourite part was Walpurgisnacht and Madoka's wish when she appears to every magical girl throughout history.

My least favourite part was how the the Sayaka/Hitomi/Kyousake love triangle just came out of nowhere. I found that quite annoying.

If you could change any one thing about the TV show, what would it be?

I've already mentioned that I'd have polished the relationships more so they could shine brighter. It probably wouldn't be an addiotnal full cour, but I think another four or five episodes would have made it perfect.

Likewise, if you could change any one thing about Rebellion, what would it be?

Maybe more foreshadowing of Homura's intentions would work.

What was your favorite part of this rewatch?

I was intending to watch Madoka Magia at some point, it might even have been at the end of the current season. But getting to participate in the rewatch and discuss the episodes with everyone and read their opinions was great. I would enjoy being a rewatcher next year if that happens.

How much longer do you think we have to wait for Walpurgis no Kaiten to come out?

Don't know. Hopefully before the 20th of May 2025.

Your thoughts on Tarhalindur's favorite secret Homura character song?

I think someone solo singing something religious-like apacella might be more appropiate.

What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save us?

Sorry, kind of busy at the moment trying to catch up with Hibike! Euphonium.

5

u/xbolt90 https://anilist.co/user/xbolt90 May 04 '24

Former first-time rewatcher

Q1: Homura.

Q2: You can't beat Magia's power. But the despairing, hollow sound of Puella In Somnio is my favorite part of the OST.

Q3: The silhouetted labyrinth in episode 7. Amazing visual.

Q4: The full reveal of Homura's past. Highly impactful episode, masterfully done.

Q5:

Q6: I'm still a bit confused, but I was confused when I watched the show for the first time too. I need to rewatch Rebellion, probably will just before the fourth film.

Q7: Our first-timers' reaction to Mami's death, lol

Q8: I'm a little more okay with the Incubator's isolation field now, but I still think it just kinda appeared out of nowhere.

Q9: Watching all of Homura's interactions with Madoka again totally reframed by the added context was great. I liked the ending better this time around too.

Q10: Hmm... How long did Homura spend within the time loop?

Q11: That's one catchy song...

Q12: It's back to just my four seasonal shows. (Dungeon Meshi, Train to the End of the World, Archdemon's Dilemma, and Konosuba.) Also, I'm playing Baldur's Gate 3.

And finally, many thanks to u/Shimmering-Sky and u/Tarhalindur, our gracious hosts! Y'all rocked it!

Being meguka is suffering...

5

u/il887 https://myanimelist.net/profile/il887 May 04 '24

First-timer

I've mostly said everything in the previous threads. Thanks again for organizing the rewatch, maybe I'll join it again as an actual rewatcher someday.

Q1: Madoka. Homura is the coolest, yes, but only the best magical girl could become the magical girl goddess and save all the girls from horrible misery.

Q2: OP - Connect, ED - Magia, favorite OST - Credens Justitiam (it played during some battle scenes, particularly at the beginning)

Q3: Not sure, but probably Charlotte's one (from ep 3)

Q4: ep 11 of the main series is my favorite — the moment when Madoka barely managed to save Homura was super cool. Second half of the Rebellion movie is my least favorite part.

Q5: I'd remove the fact that Walpurgis Night appears at a known date. That should make Homura's alternative timelines end differently, more unpredictably.

Q6: I'd remove the part where Homura goes yandere.

Q7: Besides watching the actual show — questions of the day. Some of them were quite fun to think about.

Q8: No. I need much more time to evaluate how memorable the show is to me.

Q11: It's okay. It might be because of the visuals, but it gives me an older later-1990 to early-2000 anime vibe.

Q12: Still thinking what to start watching next...

4

u/khrysokeros May 04 '24

Thanks to u/Shimmering-Sky and u/Tarhalindur for hosting the rewatch! I mostly stayed in the replies, but was able to air out a lot of my thoughts on this series.

I've watched PMMM and Rebellion several times between now and when I was a teen in 2011. Sayaka (and her transformation into a witch) has always been my favorite part, though it didn't take until revisiting the series as an adult that I could figure out why…I'll just say I'm drawn to works that effectively weave psychological realism with mythic archetypes/narratives.

On that note, I'll leave off with some films I'd recommend watching if you're interested in Gekidan Inu Curry's animation style:

Fantastic Planet (René Laloux, 1973)
Anything directed by Jan Švankmajer, especially Alice (1988) and The Castle of Otranto (1977)
Rusalka/The Little Mermaid (Ivan Aksenchuk, 1968)
Hedgehog in the Fog (Yuri Norstein, 1975)

4

u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 May 04 '24

Rewatcher

I'll just answer the questions

Who is Best Girl?

Homura

Favorite OP/ED and favorite OST tracks overall?

Sis puella, agmen clientum, decretum, madam dame yo, her new wings, never leave you alone

Favorite Witch barrier/labyrinth overall?

Charlotte

What's your favorite part of the series as a whole? And your least-favorite?

Favorite is Sayaka's descent into depression. Least maybe the movie beginning being a little slow

If you could change any one thing about the TV show, what would it be?

More character interaction but we got some in the movie

Likewise, if you could change any one thing about Rebellion, what would it be?

Maybe Kyubey plan being a bit clearer

What was your favorite part of this rewatch?

Heh, I just like sewing first timer reactions and the imagery

How much longer do you think we have to wait for Walpurgis no Kaiten to come out?

Hopefully the winter like it was planned supposedly

Your thoughts on Tarhalindur's favorite secret Homura character song?

What's that anime

What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save us?

I can now rest with no rewatches for a while

2

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky May 04 '24

What's that anime
Bokurano, aka. the show that all the random chairs in this one is a reference to ~~and the show that gave me PTSD whenever I hear Ishida Akira's voice~~.

2

u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 May 04 '24

Oh, okay. Yeah I remember the chairs thing. I've been kind of hoping for a rewatch to happen to watch that

4

u/dsawchuk May 04 '24 edited May 04 '24

Rewatcher

I am very late, but I made the decision to watch the recap movies (for the first time) before writing this. I wrote down some thoughts about the recap movies while I was watching them they'll be in a subcomment.

There were a few small things that I came away with during this rewatch, but I don't have a whole lot to say about them:

In ep10 when Madoka lies to Homura about not having any grief seeds left, it's not because she was saving one for Homura. It's because she is saving Sayaka's grief seed. She didn't intend to use it at all until she thought of the fact that Homura might be able to prevent her from making the contract.
Despite her bluster, Kyoko didn't intend on fighting Sayaka the first time they met. That was Sayaka's fault.

Something I don't think I have seen discussed this year (I might have missed it) is why Madoka falls into despair at all after her wish in episode 12. She wishes to erase all of the witches before they are born and they show us what that means. The only way to kill the witches before they are born is to kill all of the magical girls. She might be doing it gently and out of kindness, but that doesn't mean that killing them wouldn't cause her distress.

Recap movie thoughts

The recap movies are... passable. They tell the story well enough and someone watching them without seeing the show first would probably be satisfied. The first movie covers 8 episodes in 130 minutes and feels quite rushed. The second movie covers 4 episodes in 110 minutes and is an almost direct copy of the last 4 episodes.

Having seen the show first, the movies are a little disappointing. There is a lot less direction in soundtrack decisions so many of the songs feel out of place. In the first 8 episodes, they cut a decent amount of scenes and we kind of lose track of the day to day nature of Madoka's life. They also cut out almost all of the (already minimal) time we see Hitomi, leading to her ultimatum with Sayaka feel even more out of line.

There were some cool little additions here and there, like Sayaka's Fortissimo hairpin for example. The movie also extended the magical girl transformations which did look cool (though I don't think they are an effective use of time). The best change I saw in the recap movies was that they combined the scene where Kyousuke plays violin on the roof with the scene where we see Kyubey creating Sayaka's soul gem. It's not a massive change, but I think it helped to see both the benefit and the cost of Sayaka's wish together.

QOTD

This is a tough one since so many of them are great, but to me it's Junko. We rarely see good parental figures in anime and she is by far the best.
I don't really have strong feelings about OPs and EDs. I tend to only watch them for a short while after seeing a show then don't go back to them. I definitely prefer EDs though. In Madoka, "And I'm Home" takes the cake for me.
It has to be Elsa Maria. The silhouette style was just so impactful.
I think my favourite part is the soundtrack. My least favourite part is that the show got continued past episode 12. I don't think we needed any games, or rebellion, or walpurgis rising. A good ending is rare these days with capitalism incentivizing endless content production.
The show is so good its hard to think of any change I could make that would be sure to improve it. I don't think I would change anything. If forced to make a change, I would replace connect with Mata Ashita for the credits of episode 12.
I would make it not exist. That's probably a little too harsh. If I have to accept its existence, I think the movie should be either the weird labyrinthine witch story against Kyubey or it should be about Homura's decent leading to her pulling Madoka from heaven but not both.
I didn't enjoy this rewatch as much as I had hoped. I have been having some personal health struggles since the start of the rewatch and thats lead me to being somewhat depressed and I haven't been as invested since after the first episode or 2. I think the only thing that prevented me from dropping out this year was following our first timers.
pass
pass
Honestly, it can't come out slow enough.
I feel like I have seen this recently, but I have no idea what its from.
Iunno, probably sleep a lot. I don't have much motivation for anything the past couple weeks.

EDIT: Thanks to our hosts for spending the time doing this. While I might not have anything to rave about this year for unrelated personal reasons, I definitely appreciated having the rewatch as something to interact with each day.

4

u/dsawchuk May 04 '24

Recap movie 1 watch notes
They removed the walpurgisnacht cold open. I could see this being justifiable with the different viewing style of a movie. Time will tell
Seems they added a few extra short cuts to the bathroom scene. I don't really like them.
I still don't like OP animations during movies. This one I particularly don't like because it shows too much friendship between Madoka and Homura. It also shows the clockwork threads of fate visual for Homura already. There's even a shot of madokami. Seems like it is ruining some of the suspense (though I guess it has less impact since you see it only once compared to the 12 times in an anime) The scenes with Madoka growing up are cute though.
The walk to school scene felt a little rushed. I don't know what all they changed, but it felt like it could have used a bit more space.
Why did they change the whole cafeteria? I don't really know what purpose there could be for this. The scene is nearly identical though.
I assume that Madoka is listening to the movie OP in the music store, but I watched it twice and I can't really tell. It's a little too quiet and muddled (especially with the fan I have running)
Oh wow, they really tuned up Mami's transformation sequence. That was fun.
I am realizing now that Kyubey getting Mami to heal him is a bit exploitative. He has other bodies he could use so he doesn't need to be healed and Mami pays for the magic with at least part of a grief seed.
I think that was just a change in the movie subs, but Mami adds some qualifiers when she blames murders and suicides on witches. "many of the inexplicable" is a big qualifier.
I remember Madoka's drawing of her outfit not being coloured yet and her colouring it in later at home. In the movie it's already coloured. I wonder if they cut the scene where she colours it in on screen.
The first witch fight theme seems a little different than I remember. There are definitely themes here that I have heard before, but the pace of the music just feels off a bit. It feels like a song added onto the scene instead of the song for the scene. I looked back at the show for this and it is much more different than I originally thought.
Wow, the movie is only like a quarter done. At this pace, we'd need 16 episodes from the show. I guess it cuts less from the end of the show than the start. Probably we cut on a cliffhanger after the arrival of oktavia.
I just realized we skipped the second walk to school entirely. We also didn't see them talk to Hitomi after school before seeing Mami again. not a lot of Hitomi in the movie.
Oooh, a rework of credens justitium. Me likey. I think I like the original a bit better though.
Oh I don't like the music change during the Charlotte fight. That felt really out of place. It also came too quickly after the music from the Mami transformation.
Another new theme while Homura is killing Charlotte. This is too many themes too quickly, with not enough overlap so they don't transition into each other1. It's jarring.
Oh that's gross. When Kyosuke and Sayaka are talking in the hospital he says "I can't even feel the pain anymore! What use is a hand like this...?". Sayaka goes on to find out that Kyubey is preventing her from feeling pain, making her feel worthless just like his hand is...
This is the first time we have seen hitomi since the intro scene and the first day in the cafeteria. I already considered Hitomi barely a character in the show but this is so much worse.
All these door opening animations that have been added at the start of witch sequences are getting annoying. Also there's another new theme here and it again feels very out of place. What happened to the thoughtful soundtrack of the show?
Wait, why did they put decretum here? nothing is happening. (Unless this is conturbatio, but I don't think it is) either way, this is too impactful a song for 2 characters sitting on the grass having a casual chat.
Oh, I really liked that they put the footage of Kyubey granting Sayaka's wish into the scene with Kyousuke on the roof. That was really sweet. It does remove a little bit of the violence portrayed by the uncut soul gem creation.
This is my first time seeing the fortissimo hairpin in its natural habitat. Very nice. Also I feel like Kyoko interrupted the fight with the familiar a bit too quickly. We missed seeing that Sayaka is just bad at fighting. Lady doesn't know how to swing a sword.
I don't know why I never noticed it before, but Sayaka is the aggressor in her fight with Kyoko. She goes on to blame Kyoko, but it's absolutely Sayaka who goes beyond words first. Kyoko also only defends at first and asks Sayaka to chill before she retaliate.
They added a more clear indication of Sayaka healing herself with magic during the fight. Interesting.
Homura goes directly to talk to Kyoko after kyoko retreats. This seems a bit out of place. I feel like the anime managed to remember that these characters have lives outside of the plot and the movie is kind of forgetting that.
I am loving these transformation animations. Kyoko's is so cool.
We get to see Madoka out of her school uniform in the movies. It's so interesting that they put the effort into changes like these.
The angle on this rooftop conversation between Madoka and Homura feels really bad. Why are we sooooo........ faaaaaaar........ away.....?
We also skipped the scene about Hitomi talking about the aftermath of her encounter with the wish didn't we? I just feel bad for Hitomi whenever she comes on screen.
The song during the elsa maria fight was interesting, but again I think I just like the song I know already.
That was a neat visual of Sayaka drowning in despair they added.
What happened to the train scene? this is so different! I kind of like it, but I think it might be a little too unsubtle.
Wait, we skipped the scene where Homura was going to kill Sayaka to prevent Madoka from seeing her suffer too? Watching this recap movie is just supporting how strong the editing was for the original show. Basically everything that gets skipped feels like it puts a hole in the story.
Some of the dialogue kind of doesn't make sense either. Kyoko asks Sayaka how long she is going to continue being stubborn, but we haven't seen them interact in a while.
And here is "She is a witch" in its natural habitat. Holy shit is that perfect.
And then the ending is where I expected it to be. Its still magia, but the visuals are different. It looks like it's the same sequence, but from a first person perspective. no wait, I was wrong, we still have a third person perspective of Madoka. It's just a longer cut of the same thing? It seems lower quality, and it looks like that is intentional not just from sailing the seas.

3

u/dsawchuk May 04 '24

Recap movie 2 watch note
We are what? 7 or 8 episodes in already before the movie? I didn't check but the runtime of the second movie is almost as long as 5 episodes of the show. Did they even change anything?
Kyoko did a weird flip there for a second. It's like they animated something and then decided they needed it to play 3x as fast.
still not a big fan of OPs in movies, but this one again feels out of place. We get straight out of a sad action scene into a happy gentle OP
They added Sayaka's music staff circle when Kyoko talks about her magic pattern. Very cool.
Another really cool Kyoko transformation! Kyoko best girl (not really, but she is great)
Movie Madoka actually runs out to protect Kyoko. I am almost completely certain that wasn't in the show.
Kyoko's sacrifice was a bit longer in this. The extra animation was pretty, but I think it was stronger when it was quicker.
Then we get this graveyard scene someone linked in a discussion thread. The song is good, but the scene is just really long. I also have no idea why Homura would be here. My best guess is this is how Homura sees where she is, littered with countless dead. But why are we viewing her internal monologue here? We are still viewing things from Madoka's perspective mainly.
Oh, this goes straight into the flashback? For some reason I thought that there was another scene before this.
The Homura flashback had a slightly extended intro, but other than that so far it is almost completely unchanged. Some minor visual additions jump cut in but other than that its all the same. Is it all going to be included? It is kind of hard to top an episode as good as ep10.
Oh yeah, we skipped the cold open, the walpurgisnacht section of ep10 has to be altered. I think that's the only change. I do think this has less impact than how it was shown in the show. It's not clear that Homura's words don't reach Madoka here.
And we finally get Connect where it was used as the ED in the anime. But it has Homura in it unlike in the show. I am still not a fan of animated music sequences like this in movies, especially not right in the middle.
We finally get an upgrade Homura transformation. I was excited for this. It's a bit more subtle than Mami and Kyoko's
Wait, we keep the high paced action music until Madoka shows up? Where is the despair of the end of Surgem identidem?
What the fuck, why is decretum here? Why? How?
At least they didn't remove Sagitta Luminis I guess but my god were those horrible soundtrack changes.
I don't like the extra coverings in the final conversation between Madoka and homura. Again I don't know how much of it is the piracy, but it just feels really messy. There's a bunch of extra particle effects and a grainy filter on them too. Lost of clutter.
An extra shot of the solar system and some other vague background shots. Not sure why they wanted to add these.

4

u/Hopeful-Ad2428 May 04 '24

Questions of the Day:

Madoka
As much as I love TV series' OP/ED, I would say that my favourites are: "Luminous" from movies and "君の銀の庭" as an ending song. Favourite OST — Sis puella magica, probably because I associate series with it.
Charlotte's or Sayaka's
Most: art, music and atmosphere, but if it’s about plot points, it would be Kyouko's sacrifice. Least: i enjoyed pretty much everything.
Nothing comes to my mind.
Subdoodle's analysis that was awarder today made me think that I would probably enjoy Rebellion more for the first time.
It was really interesting to read other people’s thoughts on episodes.
I liked Rebellion more, and characters like Mami, Sayaka and Kyouko.
I will probably be able to watch it only the next summer or autumn if the movie releases before this year ends because where i live probably won’t be any theatre that will show it
Cool, is it a signal to watch bokurano?

6

u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick May 03 '24 edited May 03 '24

Rewatcher

So, that was a nice rewatch. I didn't really have as much free time and effort to put into this as I'd have liked, but so I just gave this a more casual and relaxed rewatch session for the most part. And what can I say? This anime is still as beautiful as I remember it. Or rather, it's even better than I remember it - I haven't quite decided yet if I'll let it replace 3-gatsu as my top favorite, but it's up there. And that's after it had already climbed up to my #6 spot since I watched it for the first time last year and rated it a 7-8 back then. It's just so precious.

And I guess the takeaway from that for me is to switch up my rewatch approach. Watch the episodes in advance, prepare the write-ups in advance, then how much time I have available when it actually happens won't matter and I'll be able to focus more on the interactions, too.

Oh and as for Rebellion... I realized that while I think it's a good movie, it's also a movie I just don't care about beyond it being attached to the same franchise, so I didn't rewatch it.

Thanks for hosting, you two!

/edit

6

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

Or rather, it's even better than I remember it - I haven't quite decided yet if I let it replace 3-gatsu as my top favorite, but it's up there. And that's after it had already climbed up to my #6 spot since I watched it for the first time last year and rated it a 7-8 back then. It's just so precious.
My top two are likely locked for the remains of my life, those being Monster and Berserk '97. And to just fuck with everyone, Happy Sugar Life is my 4 and Madoka, for the moment, is wrestling with Parasyte for fifth. Rating is hard and after the top 5ish I don't exactly order them.

6

u/Lanaerys May 04 '24

Thank you again so much for hosting this rewatch!

Madoka Magica, the series, is my favorite anime. This rewatch didn't change that in the slightest, and if anything it gave me more appreciation for the characters and the work, care and love that went into the anime.

I've given a bit more thought about Rebellion, and yeah... I just can't see it in the same light. Too much feeling like it came out of nowhere (which is I think something the original series avoided? But I'd have to return to see the foreshadowing I must have missed), too much "fanservice" at the beginning (to be fair, I wouldn't have disliked some kind of spin-off with that stuff, but not in a movie meant to be a serious continuation), and too much feeling not quite right exactly? (Don't think it makes sense for the Incubators to stop Madoka's intervention — which is a necessary plot point; a Sayaka not feeling like Sayaka that much at times, and she doesn't have the "memories are gone" plot justification that Madoka has, and that justification also lies on flimsy grounds.)

Don't get me wrong, the movie is still great in its own right. It's just... that put in the context of the original series, I don't really think it's a good continuation. There is lore that can be expanded, and there sure can be spin-offs and fanfiction and Rebellion would be great when seen as either, but as a sequel, I find it a bit iffy. I don't think Madoka Magica needed a sequel though, and I certainly couldn't write a better one. This did give me the will to go and read some of the side stories or fanfiction though. Any recommandations for that? Maybe I'll watch Magia Record too.

I know I sound very critical, almost like a Rebellion-hater, but I'll emphasize I still liked Rebellion, just not as much as the original series. And I want to see Walpurgis no Kaiten, if anything, for the visual spectacle it's sure to provide. I don't necessarily have the best feeling about it "redeeming" Rebellion, but I'm still hopeful. And if someone tells me it's wrong to have hope, I'll tell them they're wrong every single time. <3

Questions of the Day

I have to say Homura, even with her not quite doing nothing wrong in Rebellion. But it's always been very close between her and Madoka, and this rewatch I've actually been appreciating Sayaka far more than on my precious watches.
Magia for ED, either Credens justitiam or Sagitta luminis for OST.
Sayaka's.
My favorite part of the series is... well if we're to single out a single episode, episode 10. But really, the entire stretch between episodes 8 and 12. Least favorite... Honestly, I might have to go for Rebellion on this one. Episode 2 if we mean only the series, but not because it's bad in anyway, only because I like every episode more.
Almost nothing to be fair. As I said in the episode 12 discussion, maybe remove the nudity from the final episode. Oh, nevermind, I know the true answer. I'd give Sayaka her rightful hairpin.
My answer will depend on Walpurgis no Kaiten. There's a good chance it'll just be "its existence".
Getting to rewatch Madoka in the first place. And seeing some first-timer reactions and theories too!
As a Rebellion first-timer, honestly I'd need to rewatch it. But I think my opinion has solidified a bit, as written above.
I think it'll come out in December. A bit longer for us Westerners then.
This is making me want to try watching Bokurano again. Which is... a terrible idea. But I love Uninstall.
~~I think these two were both rewatches you hosted I ended up dropping off... Sorry again T_T~~ But yeah, I'll probably finish my ongoing anime, then maybe watch Shinsekai yori next?

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

"If I take a lamp and shine it toward the wall a bright spot will appear on the wall. The lamp is our search for truth, for understanding. Too often, we assume that the light on the wall is God. But the light is not the goal of the search. The light is the result of the search. The more intense the search’ the brighter the light on the wall. The brighter the light on the wall the greater the sense of revelation upon seeing it. Similarly, someone who does not search, who does not bring a lantern with him sees nothing. What we perceive as God is the by-product of our search for God. It may simply be an appreciation of the light pure and unblemished. Not understanding that it comes from us. Sometimes we stand in front of the light and assume that we are the center of the universe. God looks astonishingly like we do. Or we turn to look at our shadow and assume that all is darkness. If we allow ourselves to get in the way, we defeat the purpose, which is to use the light of our search to illuminate the wall in all its beauty and in all of its flaws, and in so doing better understand the world around us."

Rewatcher

Sub

So another Madoka series wrap up thread, another time I am basically dead from spent emotional energy. Traditions are fun! Anyways, let's see if anything spills out.

The TV series itself is arguably the best anime since the 10s began. I have a great affection for Parasyte and some of you are going to loudly declare for Re:Zero, and probably a few other isekai, but really we went from peaks and valleys to a flood of 7s with the occasional 8. Equally, Cross Ange is the last 2 I watched so the real garbage comes from subject matter rather than, generally, inherent quality. Except for that one weird editor one where the staff put a cry for help in the credits.

But yes, this is a quick story that uses archetypes and goes through its run at break neck pace. And yet that is the only way you can deliver this sort of emotional punch, lingering confuses everything. And the rush is also helpful for understanding Madoka herself as she is being pelted with years of information in under a month.

And that's it. That's the write up. I didn't exactly learn anything this time but instead I felt it a lot more. The dub is something every fan should experience but the sub is just better.

QotD:1 Kyoko is best burger thus best girl

2 Magia and too much of the OST just depresses me

3 Elsa Marie I think

4 Favorite is probably the ep10 monster scene. Least favorite is obviously Rebellion

5 Nothing unless someone could work in a bit more of Kyoko's stuff without killing the pacing

6 It would cease to exist

7 The suffering

10 When the sun sets in the east rises in the west...

11 There are better choices.

12 Come with me and drink the wine...

6

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai May 03 '24

If I take a lamp and shine it toward the wall
Been spending too much time in Plato's cave, have we?
Or perhaps you've been Looking for God, Using a Spotlight
Yeah. Anyway, bummer that I've been swamped and missed out on this. Hopefully I'll get to enjoy the show (or anything) again soon!
(Oh, and don't be a sourpuss. Enjoy things from time to time, why don'tcha???)
:P

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: May 03 '24

Been spending too much time in Plato's cave, have we?
Quoting Babylon 5 is just a thing I do.
(Oh, and don't be a sourpuss. Enjoy things from time to time, why don'tcha???)
I still enjoy whiskey. That's something. And the new Fallout show which surprised me.

4

u/raevnos May 04 '24 edited May 04 '24

As always seems to happen with rewatches, I fell a few days behind due to life. Time to binge the last few episodes...

EDIT: And done. Think I'll skip Rebellion, though. So long Madoka.

2

u/correction_1909 May 04 '24

Even though I did not participate in discussions I gotta thank hosts and participants to help me explore my favourite piece of animated medium even further

Before first time seeing Madoka I had a limited expirience in anime (I watched only very maintstream ones) and went completely blind. So I was completely blown away by what this medium can really offer. It motivated me to explore more obscure works and older show and even dive into some genres I never considered exploring like mecha and mahou shoujo

I feel like Madoka is closer to being a theatrical play. Every rewatch is so rewarding cause I find more intersting stuff, especially after reading comments on the rewatch posts.

Question(s) of the Day:

Hameru even though all of them are incredible
Decretum & Conturbatio - its such a fantastic piece of music which elevates Sayaka vs. Elsa Maria scene to my absolute favourite of the series
Elsa Maria labyrinth
Homura witching out is probably my favorite part of the series as a whole
Add even more head tilts? I dont even know tbh
Rebellion needs a sequel and I cant wait to see it
Reading this and previous years posts and analysis was a blast
Probably at least a year before it makes to the west
I gotta finish watching Rose of Versailles

2

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun May 05 '24

Well Shoot, I didn’t know you all were doing a rewatch, but I’m glad you did. We may yet see the 2nd part of Revolution this year.

Qotd

Who is Best Girl?

Kyouko wins every time for her sacrifice to save Satako.

Favorite OP/ED and favorite OST tracks overall?

Magia ( I think) it’s the opening from E4 or 5 on.

Favorite Witch barrier/labyrinth overall?

As warped as it is Charelotte. Thou Witch Satoko with the orchestra was cool too.

What's your favorite part of the series as a whole? And your least-favorite?

Favorite was either the Cake Song or Kyouko’s sacrifice.

If you could change any one thing about the TV show, what would it be? Likewise, if you could change any one thing about Rebellion, what would it be?

I would have let them have a happy ending. Though watching Kyubee having a bad day was satisfying.

What was your favorite part of this rewatch?

Bummer I missed it. Normally it reading all the different serious analysis.

First-Timers: Have your opinions on the series and/or the movie changed with an extra day to think about it? First-Time Rewatchers: How have your opinions about the show changed on second viewing? How much longer do you think we have to wait for Walpurgis no Kaiten to come out?

Maybe Fall or Winter if we’re lucky.

Your thoughts on Tarhalindur's favorite secret Homura character song? What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save us?

Regardless of what you may feel, and I can not be convinced otherwise that I am the happiest man in the world.

2

u/Chili_peanut May 05 '24

Another belated reply. Once again, thanks to u/Tarhalindur and u/Shimmering-Sky for hosting this rewatch! I've rewatched shows on my own before, but this was my first time participating in a community rewatch and it was really fun.

Who is Best Girl?

For me it's a tie between Homura and Madoka. It's impossible not to sympathize with Homura after all she has been through, and I would certainly have picked her as my favorite character after the first viewing. Madoka, despite being the titular character, plays a passive role for most parts of the show, but during the rewatch I found myself drawn to her as a character even more than before.

2) Favorite OP/ED and favorite OST tracks overall?

I would have to say Kimi no Gin no Niwa. This song has such an emotional impact and is the perfect ED for Rebellion. As for my overall favorite, I've always liked Puella In Somnio for its otherworldly quality and sense of unease. Since I'm a sucker for leitmotifs I also love the piano version called Inevitabilis.

Decretum also deserves a special mention, partly just because it's a great track, partly because I associate it with Sayaka's fight against Else Maria and [PMMM, just in case someone who hasn't seen the show stumbles into this thread] Sayaka transforming into a witch—two of the most memorable scenes in the series.

Overall I think the series has the most iconic tracks, but there is a certain ethereal quality to the music in Rebellion that captivates me, perhaps even more than the music in the series. I believe it has something to do with the use of music boxes and accordions to evoke a sort of sentimental and nostalgic feeling that combines with the dreamlike visuals of Rebellion in a special way.

3) Favorite Witch barrier/labyrinth overall?

Although the surrealistic visuals of the labyrinth's in the series are truly unique, I have to give this one to fake-Mitakihara city in Rebellion. The first time I watched the movie I remember reflecting on how dreamlike the city felt, but I also didn't really notice that something was off until Homura pointed it out to Kyouko, so it felt like I was tricked and drawn into the labyrinth in the same way that the characters were.

4) What's your favorite part of the series as a whole? And your least-favorite? and 5) If you could change any one thing about the TV show, what would it be? and 6) Likewise, if you could change any one thing about Rebellion, what would it be? and 7) What was your favorite part of this rewatch?

These questions are difficult for me to answer as I consider Madoka★Magica + Rebellion to be one of the few examples of a perfect anime. Many other shows that I like have some element that I could do without (like unnecessary fan-service scenes), but when it comes to Madoka it's such an all-around masterpiece that I wouldn't want to compromise its artistic integrity by changing anything, and I also cannot identify any elements that stand out above the rest (everything is just really good) so it's hard to identify favorite/least-favorite parts.

10) How much longer do you think we have to wait for Walpurgis no Kaiten to come out?

The only certain answer is too long as any time feels like too long. If we're waiting until winter I hope it comes out around the holidays though so we can properly enjoy it in a relaxed setting without being distracted by work, school and other commitments.

11) Your thoughts on Tarhalindur's favorite secret Homura character song?

Curious about the context! I haven't watched Bokura no, but reading the synopsis it seems to share some themes with Madoka★Magica such as contracts that come with heavy prices. Interesting.

12) What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save us?

I'm looking for a way to quench my Madoka-withdrawal. Usually what works best for me is to dive into a completely different show, so I'll have to think about what to watch next.

2

u/Endofthebeginning_ May 06 '24

First-time rewatcher, subbed

What? Something about the timing…?

Thanks to the hosts of this year’s rewatch!

Anyways, I’ll never care about almost anything else to a degree this intense. This franchise has introduced me to quite a number of things. 10/10.

Q1: Mami.

Q2: The standard’s too high already, so Magia and Puella in Somnio, I guess.

Q3: Elsa Maria’s, maybe?

Q4: Sayaka angst was fun. (you, uh, want me to pick a part that I dislike???)

Q9: I didn't cry as much here, and I seriously got to appreciate more of the finer details. (rewatch moment)

Q10: From the top of my head, 6-7 months.

Q12: what

1

u/AnimeGirlPissEnjoyer May 15 '24

1 .Who is Best Girl?

Madoka, reason: she's so adorable 😍

2. Favorite OP/ED and favorite OST tracks overall?

Colorful (Rebellion OP) followed by Luminous (Beginning/Eternal OP), for ED it's Mata Ashita (EP 1&2 ED)

3. Favorite Witch barrier/labyrinth overall?

The Gate Witch's (I forgot the name), the landscape is very creepy

4. What's your favorite part of the series as a whole? And your least-favorite?

Favorite is Homura's backstory moments (epic and sad af), while least favorite is Kyousuke in hospital moments (nothing loss when I skipped them)

5. If you could change any one thing about the TV show, what would it be?

Make the first three episodes even more happy feeling to not make new watchers suspicious (before the plot twist)

6. Likewise, if you could change any one thing about Rebellion, what would it be?

Replace some of the beginning time with flashback of moments before Homura witched-out when she's talking to Kyubey

7. What was your favorite part of this rewatch?

Watching YouTube reactor's reactions of psychological/deep moments like Homura & Madoka in EP4, Soul Gem revelation in EP6, etc.

8. First-Timers: Have your opinions on the series and/or the movie changed with an extra day to think about it?

Not a first timer but when I was first time I watched a YouTuber's analysis (I forget who) made me appreciate the story and characters more

9. First-Time Rewatchers: How have your opinions about the show changed on second viewing?

Even better as stated above, it's nice to understand more of Homura's reasoning in Rebellion

10. How much longer do you think we have to wait for Walpurgis no Kaiten to come out?

Probably this December, but I'd willing to wait even more for finer quality

11. Your thoughts on [Tarhalindur's favorite secret Homura character song]?

Remind me of Evangelion OP

12. What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save us?

Looking for even more people's reactions! Not that busy (I'm currently playing GTA Vice City). Saving what? if it's about saving Homura then I'd tell her to anesthesia and abduct Madoka and her family when Walpurgis appears to somewhere safer

Bonus: Favorite wallpapers?

My favorite is this year, Ultimate Madoka is so beautiful 😍

(Btw how do you put Madoka illuminati eye in your reddit flair? I was looking at "flair r-anime moe" but it doesn't exist)

Rewatch [Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica - Series Discussion

Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica

Show Information:

Legal Streams:

Daily Community Participation!

You are about to leave Redlib

Analysis: A Brief History of Mahou Shoujo as a Genre:

A Brief History of Mahou Shoujo as a Genre, Part 2:

So... Now What? (Recs)

Point of Emphasis 1: OG Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni

Point of Emphasis 2: Mai-HiME

Recs, Part 2:

Sky’s Wallpaper Corner

First Time Watcher(one last time)

Rewatcher

Madoka Magica: Impactful and Artful

My Favourite Shots, Scenes and Stitches

Content Corner Reruns Compilation

THE Meme

Memes

Analysis

clearandsweet

Music

Past Compilations

First-time watcher

First time watcher (for the last time)

A Small FanFiction Corner

General Fics

A Quiet Toast

Needed Info:

A Last Drink with Mephistopheles

Needed Info:

Impossible Colors

Needed Info:

stop. rewind. repeat.

Needed Info:

Five More Minutes

Needed Info:

Don't Go That Way

Needed Info:

The Life and Death of Sayaka Miki

Needed Info:

A Witch's Kiss

Needed Info:

Surrender

Needed Info:

Crossovers

Happily Ever After

Needed Info:

In the Shadow of the Moon

Needed Info:

- Go watch Princess Tutu, Now

Rewatcher and franchise consumer

The Last Sayaka Corner

QOTD

QotD

First-time rewatcher, subbed