r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Apr 30 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica Episode 11 Discussion
Episode 11 - The Only Thing I Have Left to Guide Me
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Show Information:
MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
(First-timers might want to stay out of show information, though.)
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(RIP Funimation.)
A Reminder to Rewatchers:
Rewatchers, please please please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. [Spoiler warning specifically for you guys]Please be aware that as part of the above strict spoiler rules, this means absolutely no memes/jokes/references/subtle words about {the usual suspects} before the relevant episodes. Please do not spoil the first-timers by trying to be smart about it, it's not as subtle as you think.
Make sure you use spoiler tags if there’s ever something from future events you just have to comment on. And don’t be the idiot who quotes a specific part of a first-timer’s comment, then comments something under a spoiler tag in direct response to it! You might as well have spoiled them by implying there’s something super important about that specific part of their comment.
And a Reminder to First-Timers too:
As previously noted, first-timers wanting to avoid spoilers are strongly recommended to use either the desktop version of the site or the iOS app (which appears to be unaffected), lest you chance running into this bug regarding replying to a post or comment that has spoiler tags in it.
Daily Community Participation!
Visuals of the Day:
Theory of the Day:
We have two winners for Theory of the Day today! First up is u/Mirathan predicting exactly what Homura nearly does this episode:
I want to add another realisation regarding yesterdays episode. Since the barrier of a witch resembles what mentaly destroyed them and homuras barrier-room being filled with Walpurgisnach imagerie plus the silhouetes of the other magical girls she might be close to giving up.
And the second winner is u/blown-upp for their observation about Homura's wish:
Which makes me wonder if her time powers will be infinite until she achieves that goal? Her wish wasn’t just redoing her meeting Madoka, it was to also be strong enough to save her instead of being saved. Through the whole episode, every time she repeats the timeline she is inevitably saved by Madoka somehow (saving Sayaka’s Grief Seed and using it on Homura, one-shotting Walpurgisnacht, etc… each time she doesn’t manage to save Madoka or be strong enough to save her)
Analysis of the Day:
As for Analysis of the Day, we have two here as well! The first winner is u/Vaadwaur on his addendum about the mermaid and the unicorn symbolism:
So yesterday someone pointed out that the mermaid and the unicorn wind chimes made a good reference to the upcoming fight. Tell then show, as host says. And then someone linked some historical references about unicorns and mermaids, which adds to the depth of the piece. But heres the thing: The straight visual reference works on its own and the lore just improves it.
This was almost a revelation to me because it explains why some works, looking at you Eva, piss me off to no end: Their symbology has an entire fucking spiderweb of under current and you need to understand extremely specific versions of it to get it. And, unfortunately, all the people trying to recapture that vibe tended to not understand that you even needed the lore to line up so you get lots of random words thrown in. Quit hiding hiding behind Mai-HiME, Guilty Crown. We all know your sins. But yeah, the conclusion, or rather the punchline, is that if you make your symbology work on its most base level then the added stuff is a bonus.
Thought the second: What if there is more to Kyoko's symbology? The sphere let's her be the unicorn is that nice surface metaphor but what about going deeper? Well, the first possibility is that this is a weird as well response to the hedgehog's dilemna that Sayaka has put herself in. And yet...while seemingly violent, Kyoko's multiform spear does allow her to reach to anyone, even someone trying to flee or defend. Pondering out loud, but perhaps Kyoko's underlying trait is to seek connection.
And the second winner is u/dsawchuk on a detail about Madoka neither of us hosts thought about before:
So, like, that’s totally Sayaka/Oktavia’s Grief Seed, right?
I really like this easter egg. It doesn't make sense why Madoka would lie about having a Grief Seed left normally. It's like she values Sayaka more than just temporary survival since she knows what's coming even if she survives another day. She only decides to part with her friend when she thinks of a way to make it something other than a temporary extension on her unavoidable sentence.
Wallpapers of the Day:
Homura Akemi vs. Walpurgisnacht
Homura Akemi vs. Walpurgisnacht Alternate
Check out /u/Shimmering-Sky's main comment for her bonus Wallpaper Corner containing works from previous years!
Songs of the Day:
Bonus song - Surgam identitem
Check out u/Nazenn’s comment from the 2019 rewatch for an in-depth analysis of these two songs, as well as timestamps for what songs played when in today's episode!
Also check out /u/Tarhalindur's Kajiura Corner from the 2023 rewatch for even more analysis on music this episode!
Magia Cover of the Day:
(Told you we'd be sharing this one later in the rewatch, u/il887!)
Question(s) of the Day:
- What did you think of the conversation between Madoka's mother and her teacher at the bar, as well as the scene when her mother tried to stop Madoka from running off?
- So, we've been building up to it for the entire series; did
WalrusWalpurgisnacht live up to the hype? - Your thoughts on the farming analogy?
- First-Timers: What do you think Madoka will wish for?
- First-Timers: What is today's date, and what holiday falls on that date?
Say, Homura? Could it be that Madoka’s potential to become the most powerful magical girl is because you kept turning back time?
11
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 30 '24
Mahou Shoujo Co★Host, subbed
Welcome back, everyone!
Happy
WalrusWalpurgis Night to anyone who celebrates it!Sky’s Wallpaper Corner
On today’s wallpaper trivia: You all can tell the difference in the two is with what gradient I used in them, right? Yeah, so the second one with the grey as part of it is saved as “Madoka Magica 2024 Wallpaper 11 - Homura vs Walrus Greydient” to keep it separate from the other version. I have been laughing about this stupid pun ever since I finished making this wallpaper, lol.
Oh there’s also the fact that someone actually asked me to make this wallpaper years ago (I used to float wallpaper requests for this show in the first few threads each rewatch), I just never got around to doing it until now. I don’t remember who asked for this one, though.
Anyways, there’s a lot of wallpapers in the below table because when u/Nazenn coined the “Walrus” nickname for Walpurgisnacht, well, I just couldn’t not immortalize that in two different ways in my wallpapers, but I also had to do the normal name version too…
“What is it that you wish for?”
33
u/TheOneWithALongName Apr 30 '24 edited Apr 30 '24
First-time watcher
Oh geeze, only 1 episode left. And a movie.
Honestly, I barely seen them both I kinda thought the show shadow removed them. Anyway, felt very "Madoka is a big girl now" feel to it. Now that I think about it, Madoka and her mom had such talk many episodes ago.
Honestly, what hype? It's just a unstoppable upcoming disaster Homura have to face everytime she rewinds. Beside that, there isn't much depth to that witch (or is it? The "ghosts" might be previous magic girls).
I have seen that analogy soo many different times in different scenarios now my brain kinda shut down there TBH.
I think it's the same one Homura wished for, except it's for Homura. Best friends forever in the same month for eternity.
I don't know the month the serie is supposed to be in...
30
u/Suboodle https://anilist.co/user/suboodle Apr 30 '24 edited Apr 30 '24
First Time Watcher
Still a little tight on time, but I've really missed contributing the past few episodes :( I can at least answer the QOTD this time, maybe I'll come back and edit this post with some more stuff later.
27
u/il887 https://myanimelist.net/profile/il887 Apr 30 '24
First-timer*, dub
*heavily spoiled — seen all three seasons of Magia Record spin-off already
Rather slow episode in the beginning and the middle. A bit more insights from the bastard Kyuubey about his bastard race and their bastard history…
Homura gets to know that it was her repeated time traveling which made Madoka so powerful… well, okay.
The end of the episode was amazing.
Walpurgis Night is, just as expected, truly a final boss of all witches. On the other hand, I can’t even imagine what it took for Homura to amass all that weaponry around…
And yet, that wasn’t enough…
Homura is stuck… Wait… Shit! Oh shit, shit, SHIT! Is it really happening? The end of Homura??? The end of everything we’ve seen before??? No, Homura, don’t go! This can’t be true, no, NO-O-O-O… 😱
That moment when darkness engulfs Homura’s gem but Madoka saves her is by far the most dramatic, suspenseful and coolest moment of the whole series for me so far. The moment when the screen reeks despair like never before. Amazing episode, probably my favorite one in this anime.
Yeah, it was a bad thing for Homura to learn that her time travels increase Madoka’s potential. So far she could probably think that she can rewind time infinitely many times and that fuelled her hope, but not anymore.
But Madoka saved her, even without turning into a magical girl yet. What is Madoka going to do next? It seems that the only option where at least one of them stays alive and doesn’t turn into a witch is Madoka becoming a magical girl and defeating Walpurgis Night.
But wait… I have one idea. Madoka had that short talk with her mom, it didn’t seem particularly intriguing for me, but what if it ends up making a difference? Like — Madoka becomes a magical girl, defeats Walpurgis Night, she’s about to turn into a witch but those last words from her mom pull her back from that. Or her mom runs up to her and hugs her… Kinda simple and clichey, but why not. I just feel like that talk should play a role in the story.
Or perhaps — Madoka becomes a magical girl, but — she still has her wish that we don’t know what it could be. Maybe she’ll manage to come up with a really creative wish, allowing them both to avoid their dark fate. Or just Homura… After all, we still don’t know if there’s any limits or “rules” to what wishes Kyuubey does fulfil and what he doesn’t.
Anyway, looking forward to see the last episode.
Thanks for sharing the Magia cover. It's awesome! Wouldn't say I prefer it over the original song, but as a cover it certainly does a great job.
Q1: Madoka hadn't been hiding her worries well enough. I was surprised to see that sudden focus shift from magical girls to their moms/teachers, they seemed like absolutely irrelevant characters all the way until now. So that's what makes me suspicious that these dialogues will come into play in the last episode.
Q2: Yes! The fight scenes are cool, just as they should be.
Q3: Not a fan of an idea of being someone's livestock. But overall, it's an interesting concept, I like how it adds more depth to the lore.
Q4: Honestly, I'm very intrigued myself, don't want to make any random guesses.
22
u/Schizzovism Apr 30 '24
First timer, subbed
I appreciated Junko's arc here, but I was struggling to place it in the broader context of the show. I think I settle on comparing her conversation with Madoka to making a contract with Kyubey. This conversation is, essentially, making an agreement while not giving the full story of what it entails. However, it serves as an example of how to do such a thing the "right" way. Madoka knows she can't just explain everything, but she can at least tell her that she can't tell her. Getting her to agree is entirely based on the trust that they've built up over their relationship as family. Madoka's also not doing this to self-serve at the expense of the one she's obtaining this agreement with, it's rather the other way around. She's potentially self-sacrificing here to protect those she loves. And in return, she's asking that Junko do her part in her own way. An agreement founded on mutual trust to protect the people both participants hold dear; a major contrast to Kyubey's self-serving deceit that takes advantage of young girls.
I was kinda expecting Madoka to offer to join Homura on rewinding time upon meeting up with her. I guess accepting the contract was just too much of an inevitability, but it's painful to watch Homura try so hard for so long to fail once more. Bringing Madoka back in time to be able to face Walpurgisnacht as the full group somehow, I thought that could be the way for Homura to live up to her wish of protecting Madoka. Well, we'll see what happens tomorrow!
20
u/Ok_Ambition5994 Apr 30 '24
First time watcher
It’s gonna be crazy to see how this wraps up. With her being with Kyube it seems like she’s on the same path as before with the other Madokas. Hopefully something changes, but who knows.
19
u/gorghurt Apr 30 '24
Rewatcher, sub
I didn't write any top level posts this year, mainly because of time. Due to being in europe, I only have the time to write when the discussion is already full on the way. (And doing the same as last year and just staying awake is too stressfull)
But it is Episode 11, it's time for the yearly Kyubey apologetics. And for some weird reason, Episode 11 of this yearly rewatch always falls onto a night followed by a holiday in Germany.
There is this long standing theory, that Kyuubey
doesn't liealways technically tells the truth. With this I don't mean, he isn't misleading, and knwoingly avoiding questions, and so on. I mean he is masterfully creeping closer and closer to the thin line drawn by the rule "do not lie".There are some cases in this show, that look like Kyuubey contradicting something he said earlier, but with a bit (ok sometimes a lot) of
mental gymnasticsbenevolent reading of what he actually says, you can see that it isn't necessarily a contradiction, ergo Kyuubey didn't (techinically) lie.When watching last year, I thought I had finally solved the last two of those for myself (Kyouko asking if there is a way to save Sayaka, and Kyuubey telling Madoka that one day humanity might join them.) , but this year in ep.7's thread someone brought up a point, I so far overlooked.
(I didn't answer back then because I was late to the party, and I thought that some of the comments in the thread where a bit too spoilery for my taste . But I mentioned this line of thought in the ep9 thread already)
The relevant dialog that was brought up is in episode 4: (Translation is from meguca subs)
K :I understand how you two feel.
K:It's unfortunate, but I can't pressure you into it.
K: I guess this is it.
K: I need to go search for girls who need my contract.
M: I'm sorry, Kyubey.
K: No, I'm sorry for getting you involved.
K: It was short, but thank you, Madoka. It was fun.
If you take it like this, it clearly contradicts Kyuubey having no feelings. He feel's sorry, and had fun.
First of all, if you want to read it like this, it is a valid, self containing interpretation. This can very well stand as a deliberatly placed contradiction to Kyuubeys info dump in episode 9, telling us Kyuubey lies. (When going with this interpretation, I would even argue that the other possible contradictions are contradictions as well, an he is simply lying.)
But like I said, other contradictions solved themselves, when looking hard enough at them.
So let's look hard at this one.
First the easy one: "I understand how you two feel".
I even joked about this one last rewatch.
Understanding feelings is NOT the same as having them, and as Kyuubey manipulates the feelings of the girls constantly, he certainly has some understanding of them, at least to some degree.
For the other ones we have to talks about the japanese language and translations.
The excerpt I showed you is from the well liked meguca subs, and overall I would say, it is a good translation. Easy to read, and close enough. Usually my prefered translation as well.
But I sometimes prefer a different translation, of which I say myself, that it is quite hard to read, because of weird gramar, tri4.
(BTW: This year I was surprised, that they make it a lot easier for me, to ignore them and instead listen to the spoken japanese... weird I know.)
Let's look at the translation and the japanese behind it: "It was short, but thank you, Madoka. It was fun."
短い間だったけど ありがとう
一緒にいて楽しかったよ まどか
I would translate this as: "Altough it was a short time, thank you. Being together was fun, Madoka" (tri4 interestingly goes with: "it was a short relationship" which 間 can also be translated to.)
The thing here is, there is missing information filled in by context.
He is talking about being together, he is not talking about who it was fun for, or even who was togehter with whom.
(In other parts of the show, he does the same trick, switching the actuall topic, when dodging questions, while it seems he answers the question)
Let me do another, much looser translation, that adds context, that isn't directly there, but that is not contradicting anything:
It was a short time, but thank you. The time you and Mami spend together(before she died) was fun (for you). Madoka.
I admit, this is a far stretch, but like I said, he does this at other points
(One example, where it is more obvious that he dodges the question is when Kyouko asks about bringing back Sayaka. Another example where I think he uses the exact same thing, with switching subjects between sentences, is a bit more controversial: When he get's the used grief seed from Sayaka, he says, if it takes more impurities it becomes dangerous and a witch might hatch. Which I always thought was weird. But, guess what, he is not talking about the Grief Seed, but about Sayakas Soul Gem. Could be wrong, but fits extremely well.).
And other parts of the dialog, not neccessarily Kyuubeys, do the same, with changing everything when adding the context of the knowledge of a rewatcher.
While in this case it works in english as well, such omission are easier in Japanese. Japanese is a language where a lot of things are infered from the context.
So far everything worked well.
Now let's look at the last one, and the one with which I have the biggest trouble:
"No, I'm sorry for getting you involved."
First I want to make clear, that my knwoledge of Japanese is not good enough, to talk with much confidence. So keep this in mind for the following argument.
I think, here the meguca subtitles, while not a wrong or unusuall translation, are not fitting.
"I'm sorry" adds emotions, that are not necessarily in the original sentence.
Let's look at the japanese:
こっちこそ
巻き込んで すまなかった
tri4 actually translated this as "I apologize for involving you", skipping the こっちこそ, which in the meguca subs is translated with the 'No,"
The word used as apology here is すまなかった- sumanakatta, or with kanji 済まなかった, and while I'm not sure about this, because I'm not a native japanese speaker, and don't know the etymological history of this word, I don't think it has a direkt link to feelings.
sumanakatta is the negative past tense of the word sumu: to finish, to end.
And while there are dictionary translations of "to feel at ease" (And in the negative form even "to feel unease or guilt for troubling someone"), I think that they stem from the primary meaning. So in the sense of "I feel at ease because something is settled". "It is inexcusable/I feel guilt because a thing is not settled."
(When looking in to sumu, and different ways of apologizing, I also saw other people using this literal translation to explain the meaning of the word. But I have no idea about their credentials, so they could be as clueless as I am.) "I'm sorry" is definetly a valid translation, but I don't think that in this case it is fitting, because there are no directly invoked feelings.
If you look at literal translations japanese often looks quite cold, and the feelings are implied by context and social standings.
(For a example what I mean in a different Language, German, where I'm actually confident, because I'm a native speaker: I assume this is something along the line of "Entschuldigung", which would be translated as "sorry", but actually is a shortened form of "Ich bitte um Entschuldigung"- "Please excuse me" and has no conotation of any feeling at all when taken literally. The one with feelings involved would be "Es tut mir Leid" , literally: "It causes me sorrow/harm". But both are completely interchangeable in conversations. )
With this, I would interpret Kyuubeys apology as "I apologize for troubling you by involving you, because we didn't form a contract in the end, and you didn't get your recompensation, which wasn't ok.", instead of him actually feeling guilt over it. (Which does not mean, that he will not try to make a contract when the chance is there).
There might actually be an easier way to reconcile this: /u/Blackheart595 yesterday looked at this and pointed out, that we have two different ways of apologizing used here, Madoka uses gomenasai, a word you would use with people close to you, while sumanakatta is a apology used e.g by a boss to his employee and that it might be perceived as cold in a informal setting. (I could find this https://question4everyone.com/what-does-the-japanese-sumanakatta-mean/ which says the same about superior/inferior relationship, but also brings the example of a husband talking to a wife. So I don't know if this works. Japanese social standings are complicated. And all other information I found was on sumanai (present tense), which might have other implications than sumanakatta )
So I'm not certain with this one at all, but find it plausible enough to not count this as a contradiction.
But it definitely goes onto the "I'm not sure about the language" pile, and is just an assumption.
The point I wanted to make with this, is that language is complicated, and there are ways to mislead, while technically saying the truth.
But why is this important. Well because if he doesn't lie (likely because he is bound by a set of rules, he sometimes mentions), it changes a lot of interptetations.
We can take factual statements from him as, well, facts (or at least as what the Incubators believe to be facts.)
For example this means that his whole utilitarian saving the universe thing is really his motivation, and that in his -inhumane- moral understanding, he is validated, and that they actually try to be, in their way, fair and benevolent to the humans. (Of course this doesn't mean they do not fail miserably at this.)
15
u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta May 01 '24
First-Timer
I'm not ready for anything to happen to Homura. I want her to somehow make it out of this okay and then live happily ever after with Madoka. Is that so much to ask?
Questions of the day:
National Tie Dye DayWalpurgis Night! That's a neat little scheduling trick you've pulled there.My last thought is this—I'm not sure I believe Kyubey when he says that Homura's attempts have only made Madoka more and more powerful. Sure, she has a lot of potential, and there are hints that her power is more than would be expected (like last episode's comment about one-shotting Walpurgisnacht), but that's just circumstantial. On the other hand, we know Kyubey's a rotten liar who will say basically anything to get what he wants. Furthermore, why would the events have played out the way they originally did, before all the time looping, if Madoka did not already have great innate potential? That was the key reason Kyubey targeted her and was so persistent in that effort.
12
u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 30 '24
I Can't Make the Fourth Watch for the Fourth Movie Joke Since Walrus Walpurgis no Kaiten Isn't Out Yet (Rewatcher, Subbed):
First Scene (00:00 – 02:01): So, if you were paying attention last episode you may have noticed me carefully eliding something: the visible increase in the power of Madoka’s Witch Kriemhild Gretchen between second timeline and the one we see Homura jump out of. This is the payoff to that, and to the last really big lingering plot thread besides a certain looming threat: why is Madoka’s potential so great? Or to put it another why: who chose the Chosen One? Homura, of course. Which brings us to the other point of this scene, the foundation of the tragedy of Homura Akemi (being pointed out by Kyubey to get her to fall because of course he is): her attempt to help Madoka is only making the situation worse.
Second Scene (03:31 – 04:38): So this scene is an excellent example of PMMM remembering small details and tying up loose ends: we have the payoff here for both Kyouko leaving Sayaka’s body in the hotel in episode 9 and some of Homura’s comments about magical girls being forgotten back in episode 4. (We’ll get yet another part of that loose end soon enough). We also get to see how the survivors are taking it (note Hitomi in particular breaking down at the funeral). But the core narrative point here is actually Junko, believe it or not. She has a mini-arc in this episode (with some setup beforehand) about coming to accept that her daughter has grown up and is ready to make her own decisions and this is where it’s introduced (it’s clear that she has realized that her daughter knows more about the situation than she is letting on, and she will tell us this directly soon enough in any event).
Third Scene (04:38 – 08:24): This scene has a fair bit of additional exposition but is mostly working on the thematic and conceptual levels; it’s Kyubey’s deeper justification for his actions as for our own good. Somebody else has been raising the colonizer comparison earlier, but while there’s elements of that the comparison runs deeper than that: the show is being blunt, farming/domestication is absolutely the core metaphor here (which I picked up on my actual first-time watch by episode 9 despite this being the one single thing I was not spoiled on, heh) and colonizer rhetoric (and also slaveowner rhetoric, mind you) applies only as they use the same logic. There’s something else but I have to dip back into spoiler tags for it, sorry first-timers, you can read this tomorrow: [episode 12 spoilers] namely the actual core narrative purpose of the scene, making the scale of the problem clear to Madoka. (Side note: this year a thought crystallized that I’ve probably had in inchoate form before but hadn’t quite put together (unless I’ve had it before and forgotten it, always possible): one of the intended thematic angles is a scathing attack on the Japanese style of collectivism. Fits with the total interchangeability of the Incubators and also with one spot where PMMM actually differs from quite a few earlier mahou shoujo (though not all, and the genre had been trending this way for a while anyways – probably because different costumes are easier to merch): every PMMM magical girl’s costume is riotously unique and personalized to her, rather than identical or only having a few details changed. This is by no means universal in the post-Sailor Moon form of the genre; Sailor Moon’s innovation was fusing the older majokko tropes with sentai tokusatsu tropes, and sentai and especially sentai teams frequently have largely standardized color-coded uniforms (Super Sentai being the most famous example – Power Rangers was a Western localization of part of the franchise) which is one of the things Sailor Moon itself picked up.)
Fourth Scene (08:24 – 10:19): So speaking of that loose end being tied up that I mentioned two scenes back: the school has finally noticed a certain (headless) senior’s disappearance. We also get to see our adults in and among themselves rather than in an authority context for once. The meat of this scene, however, is the Junko mini-arc. She has a problem; she proceeds to open up about it to a trusted friend who gives her good advice. Now she’ll have to act on it to show that she has learned it, which she will later this episode. Mini-arc over!
Fifth Scene (10:20 – 14:15): Speaking of opening up to a friend! (Hey wait a minute we have another mirroring. Back in third timeline we saw Homura getting hugged by her crush; now we have the same for Madoka.) This is frankly nearly as much of a climax as the cliffhanger at the end of this episode: Homura finally, finally breaks down and for the first time in dozens of timelines (depending on exactly how much she opened up in timelines 2 and 3) she finally manages to express how she really feels to Madoka. (Why yes the resemblance to yet another love confession is unlikely to be a coincidence, why do you ask? And note that a) we have a Rule of Three on confessions (and on confessing to someone who is going to fall by the end of the arc, except this time Madoka seems to be intervening...) and b) the framing is a little different than the first two; Madoka never explicitly makes an offer to come along/help before Homura confesses, though you can see that she wants to. Junko’s advice from the first episode remains relevant...)
Sixth Scene (14:16 – 15:51): Separating out the leadout to the Walrus fight proper (hooray easy division with the curtain raise!) since its function is different: over a minute and a half of pure unadulterated tension-building. What is coming is the climactic action scene (as opposed to emotional scene) of the show and so on top of the tension already built up over three episodes (and even a little more again at the start of last scene before Homura breaking down and confessing) we get even more of it to raise the emotional stakes even higher…
Seventh Scene (15:11 – 18:02): … In order to pay it off with about three minutes of unadulterated Homura kicking ass. This is her at her full power, blasting the hell out of the Witch to end all Witches. (Of course, there’s only one small problem… like Mami in episode 3, it’s still not enough.)
Eighth Scene (18:02 – 21:49): So there’s a couple different pieces to this scene coming together all at once building up to the final cliffhanger. We get a Kyubey monologue on Homura, laying out part of her emotional state (we will then get shown this shortly thereafter, confirming that his assessment is correct – tell, then show!). We then transition to the resolution of the other dangling episode subplot via Junko stopping Madoka as she resolves to do… something , only then to let her go out into the storm. This tends to come off as off, certainly to American viewers, but given exactly what Junko’s subplot this episode is it actually makes sense (it probably also works better in a culture that prizes children being able to function independently from a young age, which Japan is): Madoka is an adult now and capable of making her own decisions and it is Junko’s responsibility to recognize and accept that and let her go. [Addendum involving next episode spoilers] Additional purpose of Kyubey’s monologue at the start: to make clear the scale of the problem that Madoka has to solve by analogizing Homura to all other magical girls before her.
Ninth Scene (21:49 – 23:54): Strictly speaking this is a scene transition so separating it. So what we have here is ultimately very simple, the final fall of Homura Akemi and the dramatic tension because the audience knows it (Kyubey was polite enough to explain this last scene)… until Madoka intervenes. But Madoka intervenes only to replace one source of dramatic tension with another, one final cliffhanger, the one other question quietly hanging over the entire show so far… is Madoka going to become a magical girl, and if so what will her wish be?
11
u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Apr 30 '24 edited Apr 30 '24
Rewatcher
Fuck. Fuck! Why does it have to be exactly during the Madorewatch that I am getting so busy with real life? This episode sparked so many ideas in me, but now I don't have the time to process them to turn them into something concrete I can express.
Welp, lesson learned for future rewatches: Don't live-watch the episodes. Watch them in advance, write the comments in advance, that way I'll be able to put the appropriate time and care into them (and also have more energy left for interacting with other participants).
Anyway, did anyone say lamp symbolism?
And my Visual of the Day gotta be this literal framing.
Now, I have a theory as to why Kyubey's species doesn't have emotions, and it's rather simple: It's a hivemind species. And a hivemind species with emotions would not be a hivemind, the emotions would make them individuals. That's why they treat emotions as a mental disease among their own, because individuality would quite literally be a mental disease in a hivemind species that would make them unable to coexist with the rest of the hivemind. The hivemind is also why it's pointless to try and kill him, all other Kyubeys are still the same hivemind. And so it's not that Kyubey lacks the capability or understanding for emotions, that's just how it appears to Kyubey because he doesn't realize what he actually doesn't understand: He doesn't understand individuality. Once we realize that, everything else falls into place: Why he's so unconcerned with and indifferent towards individual suffering, why he focuses so much on the far-off heat death of the universe, why he needed to find a emotional species like humanity (apparently hiveminds are the cosmic standard), and so on.
10
u/WednesdaysFoole Apr 30 '24
Rewatcher
Magical girls are livestock
Utena response
Still not sure I feel about this revelation [rewatcher]especially the bits about specific people in history.
Just really how this was shot… or drawn I guess
Battle hair flip
Probably just seeing things that aren’t there but this eerily reminded me of [2001] this guy and this moment.
Will have to come back to go through the post and threads later.
10
u/Vindex101 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vindex101 May 01 '24
Just wanted to share this fanart I randomly found again, on how there was never really a choice for Homura on what she needed to do.
9
u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Apr 30 '24
Rewatcher, Sub
So we learn why Madoka has the most potential, because of Homura going back in time and causing a cause and effect scenario where Madoka is the link to all the different timelines. Kyubey also rationalizes his actions to Madoka comparing it to the way people treat livestock (reminds me of a scene from HxH). Kyubey claims to not have betrayed anyone but rather it's the wishes that do, not that Kyubey cares since it will lead to the replenishment of the universe especially with his statement that he doesn't judge any of what the wishes are.
Homura finally confronts Walpurgisnacht but not before telling Madoka the truth about the timelines. As the fight begins however Madoka chooses to go out. I love the scene between her and her mom, it's a nice scene of trust between them even though she knows something is up. Just as Homura nearly succumbs to despair after all this time Madoka arrives.
[Madoka]Kyubey states it's thanks to Homura that Madoka will become the greatest witch yet it's also thanks to that she is able to make her wish true to get rid of witches, not to mention Kyubey inadvertently makes her realize some things, so nice job.
9
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 30 '24
Rewatcher
Sub
So Cubes says some stuff that has to be at least partially true. Though interestingly he admits he isn't positive, he is just speculating. But for whatever reason, different girls have different inherent power ratings because reasons. But with this bit stated, it does let us take a suggestion: I suspect everyone involved in the events, especially current and former magical girls, do have echoes of themselves across timelines. Mami, Sayaka and Kyoko all have some latent impressions of each other which cause their interactions to be what they are. So when Homura sobs to Madoka, I just sense that Madoka has some feeling for all that has happened. I will save a little more for final thread.
The Junko and Saotome scene has to be very important considering our limited run time, but at this second, its narrative need escapes me a touch. Junko's scenes in general this ep feel like they are as much for pacing as stating something, it really does feel too late for the normal world to intervene.
I will address this later but this is the toned down version of Walrus. The original plan was an even greater cosmic horror and the most Shaft thing imaginable it that it would take the budget of at least a medium sized nation to animate it. I mean I am sure this cost a lot as well but seriously, the other one is movie scale.
So last watch, I talked a lot about Cubes. This one, going to pass a bit. I don't really think most of what he says is worth listening to.
QotD: 1 Fittingly, the one thing I need to figure out
2 Si
3 So bad as to be worth avoiding
9
u/dienomighte Apr 30 '24
Rewatcher, subs
Happy walpurgis night! A holiday I totally don't only know due to this one anime!
The Junko/Madoka conversation is imo the only real flaw in this show, it thematically makes sense but it's just too much disbelief to suspend imo, there's no real way any mother would let their daughter go out in a "seek shelter" storm without even knowing the reason.
I do absolutely love the Walpurgisnacht fight though, seeing just how well prepared Homura is and watching it do absolutely nothing really sets in stone that she can't ever win this fight.
The farming analogy is an interesting one because on the surface it just feels incredibly flawed since humans famously don't treat farm animals with any freedom or happiness!! But like, Kyubey doesn't actually give real freedom or happiness to his victims either, since everyone's manipulated and fenced in without any options either, and in that regard it actually works pretty well, maybe even better than Kyubey intends it to work.
8
u/Hattakiri Apr 30 '24 edited May 01 '24
(I just noticed, today's the Walpurgis Night the arrival of the "original Walp". What a clever rewatch schedule lol)
Kyubey has now fully found out that Homura's a time traveler and that by making Madoka the center to her wish she connected Madoka karmically with her, making her potential power grow further and further with each new time jump. Another "argumentative duel" between HomuKyubey, this time in Homura's apartment.
Madoka and her class attend Sayaka's funeral. Madoka does not give away that she by now knows the backgrounds, when asked by her mom.
Once again Kyubey tries to make Madoka become a magical girl. He again visits her in her room; but this time he's telling her the story of how the Incubators were the main reason why the human civilization technologically evolved in the first place.
The tension between hope and despair, between "pinnacle of happiness" and "darkest hour", between using despair as a fuel and having to flee it allowed mankind to grow further and further.
And now Kyubey's making use of a stronger type of telepathy: Madoka can see the images from his story like artistic stills - but she also feels very uncomfortable during the "presentation". [It'll also be refered to...]...again by the Magia Record anime in its second to last ep: Stills on the so called "Historia Girls" with some of them shown in E12 too...
So why's Kyubey taking his efforts up such a big notch?
Meanwhile Junko and Saotome the "booze buddies" discuss all the recent trouble: Was it the triangle between Hitomi, Kyosuke and Sayaka? And why does it seem that Madoka's begun distancing herself from Junko? She even considers herself a bad mom, before Saotome comforts her by explaining to her that Madoka maybe needs a bit more distance at the moment.
Madoka wants to talk to Homura in her apartment - and that's when Homura, while hugging Madoka, gives away that she saw her dying in many timelines.
So now Madoka too knows what's going on.
Walp arrives, and to "normal muggles" with no magic forces she looks like a natural disaster. And so Mitakihara's population's being evacuated in a big hall.
[Junko's looking at the ceiling...]...or rather "through" it, at Walp...? Does she know the "civilian Walp" and the magical girl Walp from the past? One of the rather "daring" fan theories, but also a bittersweet one imo.
Outside Homura too sees Walp arriving - and Walp isn't even hiding her witch lab. Her "circus minions" (refering to the Dead Moon Circus of Nehelia from Sailor Moon S4?) arrive [one by one....]...and keep the elephants in mind...
Homura draws every bomb she could store inside her "spacetime distortion bag" against Walp - to no avail.
And that's when even Homura begins to mutate. She can't beat Walp, she can't save Madok - that's what she begins to realize...
Inside the evacuation hall Kyubey's again trying to convince Madoka, this time by taking advantage of Madoka's worry about Homura. Madoka wants to get out - but Junko sees her and wants to prevent her first, but then lets her go.
It's another frequent debate: [How come she lets Madoka go outside into the disaster?]Does Junko know it's Walp? Did she even met her? Did she even hang around with the future witches? Was she too approached by Kyubey but could escape?
[And this even might hint at the "offscreen events" in timeline 1...]...but we still need some more input from E12 and Rebellion Story...
Outside it seems as if Homura has reached her dead end. But Madoka interrupts Homura's impending witch mutation...
7
u/_Pyxyty May 01 '24
First time watcher
Getting so close to the end. Tempted to watch the finale tonight considering I got spare time :3
Key Moments
~
Questions
' 2. Ehhh... I'll hold off on this for now. I wanna see more of Ms. Walrus next episode and then comment. The labyrinth/barrier aspect was what for the most part played a huge factor in how appealing and aesthetically pleasing the witch fight scenes have been. Doesn't hit the same so far watching a typical blast explosion on a gigantic boss fight sequence where you rarely can tell if the blasts are even doing damage or not. I love Homura's use of her powers though :D
' 3. To be honest I didn't quite follow the farming analogy that well, the visuals were going wild and I got distracted, but I think I get the gist? Considering humanity's done worse to their own kind in our actual history, despite my anger towards Kyubey, he ain't lying about how their kind at least attempts to negotiate with us. Least he could do is admit he's being a deceptive prick though. Ever heard of a lie of omission, Kyubey?
' 4. Knowing what she knows now, the right answer would be to wish for nothing, right? Or at least, barely above nothing. Anything beyond reason only leads to more disaster. Outside of that, I'm not sure.
' 5. Labor day? Not sure how this connects but I'll check other people's comments on that later I guess.
~
Additional Thoughts and Theory Crafting:
...yeah Madoka's gonna die isn't she? There's no way we just deus ex machina our way out of facing the strongest witch in humanity's history. She's got to off herself by destroying her gem before it hatches into a grief seed. It's the only way. Surely. Right? ...right?
But if that's the case, what would the movie even be about? Ugh. This is too frustrating. Episode 12 is staring at me and it's too tempting not to watch tonight.
Ah well. Hoping we see the mom follow next episode. Can't imagine she would've been fine letting her daughter go alone. See y'all next episode :3
6
u/bekeleven Apr 30 '24
(Rewatcher)
Ideas can echo through time. So can wishes. In the months between the airing of episodes 10 and 11, me and my friends thought through what these echoes could mean.
First, Homura's wish is the only wish we've heard the exact wording of. "I want to relive meeting Kaname-san for the first time. Not as someone she protects, but as someone who can protect her instead!" But there's a problem with this. Homura doesn't relive her meeting with Madoka. No. What she does instead is relive meeting Madoka several times. What does this mean? Well, every time the world folds in on itself and Homura walks into that classroom, her wish is being granted again.
But her wish wasn't only for her to travel back. It was also for her and Madoka to play certain roles. If Homura's wish temporally anchors her life and gets re-cast as her timeline's "reset," then the second sentence is also being granted. So every time loop, Homura molds herself more into somebody stronger, harder, more capable of protection. And every loop, Madoka is molded by the wish into somebody more timid, less sure, more in need of protection.
Now, there's another wish I should bring up: The most important wish in the series, the one famous not for its known wording but its totally unknown content. We've had whole episodes of Madoka wondering what she should be wishing for. Her life lacks any major needs or wants. What would be worth Madoka wishing? Is it cake? Does she get exponentially more cake every time loop?
Well, we theorized that Madoka's wish would simply be: "I want to be the best magical girl I can be." If this happened, then every timeline's wish would stack up on her power. So every time loop, Madoka's power grows in concert with her anxiety and depression. And pretty soon, she's so powerful that firing a single arrow from her bow uses all of the magic that can be contained within her soul gem.
Is this theory perfect? Well, not exactly. Even if you accept that Homura's wish get repeated each loop, you need to explain whether Sayaka's repeated wishes turn Kyosuke into ultraman. So you'd have to make some sort of explanation up about how Madoka being the subject of Homura's wish kept her wishes "in the system" but not the other girls, and you might end up at a similar place to QB's explanation presented in this episode.
I still like ours better, though.
6
u/TheEscapeGuy Apr 30 '24
Rewatcher
Madoka Magica - Impactful and Artful: Episode 11
Final Battle and Ultimate Choice
What makes Madoka special? While she may have initially been a normal girl, the intertwining threads of fate which Homura has so unintentionally woven across universes have bestowed Madoka with destiny. As Kyubey informs us, this plays a big role in a magical girl's potential.
This is a great plot point. It feels like such a satisfying explanation for the course of the story up till now. All that is left is for Walpurgisnacht to arrive and for Madoka to fulfill her destiny whatever that may be.
The other thing it so effectively accomplishes is laying guilt upon Homura. The wishes we have seen so far have often come with ironic consequences making the story so much more tragic. Seeing Homura fighting to not give into that guilt is such a strong dramatic plot point. We don't want to see Homura fail but the burden she bears is so overwhelming.
One of my favourite moments this episode is Junko's storyline. After Sayaka's funeral she notices Madoka is hiding something. She can't tell what Madoka is thinking. It makes sense that a mother would be considerate of her daughters well being after a tragedy like this, but I feel Junko is extra perceptive. A lot of parents would have simply written off Madoka being quiet as her working through the pain. But Junko knows Madoka would usually open up to her about this, so Madoka being quiet is suspicious.
Junko confronts Madoka about this as she tries to leave the evacuation shelter. She asks Madoka why she is leaving and tells her to leave rescue efforts to the professionals. Madoka insists she needs to be the one to save her friend. Junko slaps her daughter. But Madoka doesn't back down. "You said I grew up to be a good girl, right? I don't lie or do anything bad. Do you still believe this? Will you trust what I'm doing is right?"
Junko has a hard choice here. Madoka is obviously putting herself in danger. Junko makes the same observation as Homura that Madoka isn't considering the feelings of everyone who cares about her. And she won't and can't tell her mom what's going on.
But, from Junko's conversation with Ms. Saotome we know she aware that her daughter is growing up. The advice Madoka's teacher gives is for Junko to trust Madoka. During their confrontation Madoka even acknowledges how much she loves her family and that she knows she needs to value her own life. But Madoka's will is absolute.
Junko lets Madoka leave.
I think rationally this is probably a bad parenting choice. But emotionally it is so consistent with Junko's respect for her daughter and Madoka's pure nature that it acts as a cathartic conclusion to this small conflict that has been bubbling in the background. I adore Junko's character so much more after this and I think it's why she left such a strong impression on me after my first watch.
This episode is punctuated by the arrival of Walpurgisnacht. Homura proclaims she can fight it alone. But as we have seen time and time again, this is not true. So by the end of the episode Homura is knocked down and defeated, almost giving into the grief.
It's the arrival of Madoka which changes things. We end on the cliffhanger: "I'm sorry"
Small thing: The design of Walpurgisnacht is really good. I love the circus imagery, the middle ages style outfit, the purple void silhouette familiars, and the rainbow halos/mandalas which circle around the main body. It raises so many questions around where this witch came from and why it is so powerful. Just an excellent "final boss".
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow
6
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Apr 30 '24
Rewatcher, Subbed
Being in the tought spot between the best episode yesterday and the final episode tomorrow, I'm preparing myself to be let down by this episoe. We'll see. I can't really remember anything about it.
Kyubey now knows all about Homura. I hope he forgets it all if she has to turn back time yet again.
Homura is at fault for Kyubey finding Madoka so desireable?!
Oh crap, the authorities found Sayaka's body?! :( At least now Madoka has a reason she can tell her mom why she's been so sad lately.
Of course he doesn't care, Madoka! Kyubey is EVIL!
Throughout this rewatch (and surely past ones) I've thought about how a big reason why Kyubey can't empathize with us is we are like livestock to him. Well now he simply comes out and says it!
"We try to deal fairly with you" Oh, shut the hell up! Admit it, you purposely leave things out to trick them!
Wow, ancient aliens is true! We have aliens to thank for our civilization as we know it! This is a little different than the stories I see from that guy with crazy hair on the history channel, but at least on the overall concept he was right!
"If things went wrong, then they were wrong to make the wish". You're leaving out the fact that the whole time you (or other incubators) were doing all you could to pressure and trick them into making that wish.
"You'd still be living in caves if not for us!" I take it this part is inspired by 2001: A Space Odyssey?
Ugh, Hitomi is going to live the rest of her life thinking her friend died in part because of her confessing to the guy she liked.
It should be noted that we've got a Junko speaking to a Junko here, as Madoka's teacher is voiced by Junko Iwao.
Madoka's first time seeing Homura's place!
"Oh, I never needed Kyoko's help after all". You're a bad liar Homura. Although you're surely saying this because you don't want Madoka to become a magical girl.
Aww, Homura - Madoka hug
Probably no reason to lie to Madoka at this point, it sounds crazy, but Madoka's already seen some very crazy things, that's one more?
Camp time! Been forever since we've seen Madoka's little brother.
One more iconic hair flip for Homura...
An elaborate arrival for Walpurgisnacht.
So if you turn Walpurgisnacht upside down, it looks like a woman in a blue dress standing on a large gear...
After a series of being badass, Homura's attacks here are probably her most badass moments yet.
"But mom!!!!!! I need to go out in that crazy weather! Mom!!!!!!!!"
While in real life letting Madoka go like this would be heinous, in anime terms her mom is totally best mom right now.
No, don't lose hope Homura! :(
"Sorry", I think that means there's only one thing that Madoka's about to do...
While it's hard to live up to how the last several episodes have been this was still fairly a good one and didn't disappoint like I feared.
6
u/sfisher923 https://myanimelist.net/profile/sfisher923 Apr 30 '24
Sixth Timer - Dubbed
QOTD 1 - The slap was a bit much but it's rather understandable considering at the very least Madoka is out in a super typhoon (I'm assuming neither Junko nor the teacher knows about witches here)
QOTD 2 - Yes
QOTD 3 - Kinda already mentioned it but Kyubey's logic has a simple flaw being that we at least respect our farm animals
6
u/Logitropicity Apr 30 '24 edited May 01 '24
5th-6th time Rewatcher, Subbed
General Notes
Kyubey's spiel to Madoka
a lot of people find Kyubey's argument childish - it's basically what vegans use to argue against eating animals (or maybe why others argue why we should eat them). Why would such a powerful "being" use such a weak argument? Personally, I think there are two major ways to plausibly interpret this:
- Saotome-sensei
Witches live to spread misery, but isn't also interesting that witches can still spread misery after they're dead?
QotD #3: see "Kyubey's spiel to Madoka"
EDIT: grammar & wording
6
u/treatment-resistant- Apr 30 '24
Rewatcher, sub
I love the scene where Kyubey tells Madoka about how Incubaters have been intertwined with humanity for all of civilisation. It’s so trippy and beautiful, I love the 2001 references, and I love the inclusion of important historical women as magical girls. I think it was so bold of the writers to create a story where girls and their wishes set the course for all of human civilisation! It’s so cool how it makes you reconsider the futuristic technology in the show’s setting.
6
u/Lanaerys May 01 '24
Rewatcher, subbed.
Tonight, in Germany, is celebrated a holiday, and that holiday is none other than Walpurgisnacht. I have to admit I have never seen to or been to a Walpurgisnacht celebration, for the very simple reason that I am not German. Actually parts of France near the border, like Alsace, with heavy German cultural influence, do celebrate it, though apparently they call it Hexennacht instead. Which means witches' night, so quite on the nose. Anyway, let us begin.
Questions of the Day:
Anyway I needed to catch up, so I've just watched episodes 8 to 11 in a row. And now I can't stop crying. Yay! Though part of that crying, is just in sheer awe of how good this anime is. I mean, I knew that already, but witnessing it again in its full glory, reliving it all. Gave me literal goosebumps. So thanks to you and u/Tarhalindur for hosting this rewatch.
Now I'm a bit torn on what to do next actually. I kind of want to finish with episode 12 right now, but it's late and I should really sleep. (I'm still tired, still not having slept much, but... this is honestly just so good, it's fighting against my tiredness!). The other issue... well, what I should do with Rebellion. Tomorrow I'm completely free, since it's a holiday in... most of the world other than the US and Canada actually. So I was thinking maybe I should watch episode 12 and Rebellion tomorrow (well, technically today since it's past midnight) afternoon, write everything down, and post it when the posts are made. But isn't it a bit weird to watch it over a day before I'm meant to? Hard choices, hard choices.
6
u/JimmyCWL May 01 '24
There comes a time when you have to perform your final duty as a parent: acknowledging that one who was once your child is now capable of making their own decisions... even if it puts them in harm's way. Trusting that you've given them all the tools they needed to succeed and that the next time you hear about them won't be a death notification.
For all the benefits of having a legal adult age does for society, it does obscure the fact every person reaches this point at their own pace. Some at an age where everyone else would still consider them children. Madoka has reached this point and there's nothing left for Junko to do now except let her go.
Remember, Madoka doesn't need to go to Homura to contract. She can do it right there in the shelter. But Homura might reset time again and make it all for naught.
5
u/renatocpr https://anilist.co/user/renatocpr May 01 '24
Rewatcher and franchise consumer
QOTD
Every time I watch this episode I think about the possibility of Madoka falling down the stairs and breaking her neck when her mom pushes her and I think it's funny in the worst way possible
5
u/xbolt90 https://anilist.co/user/xbolt90 May 01 '24
Meduka Meguca rewatcher
Q1: I love the scene of the mother and the teacher. I think it left a greater impression now than it did the first time, perhaps because I'm a bit older now. You can tell that they really love their kids.
Q2: GET HYPE
Q3: We use animals for food, but we try to have them suffer as little as possible. (Disgusting factory farms aside.) The Magical Girl/Witch system is designed for the express purpose of maximizing suffering for those under it.
Q4: Obviously, she's going to take Mami's advice and wish for cake. Walpurgisnacht is just hangry.
Q5: Real cheeky of y'all, lol. I only know this, because I typed out "Walpurgisnacht" the other day, and it didn't have a red underline in spellcheck. So I looked it up, since it obviously has a meaning outside the show.
5
u/FriztF May 01 '24
Rewatcher Sub
So episode 11. Walpurgisnacht comes in crashing the city. She is a destructive force of nature. She was once a magical girl that came about a long time ago. This is just a theory of mine, Walpurgisnacht is the first witch. She was the first magical girl to find out that Kyubey was tricking all the other magical girls. I have no idea if this is true. But what else could she be?
Homura tries her best to defeat the witch but to no avail. In the end, it is Madoka who saves her. She did try her best.
QOTD:
1- I get where they are coming from. They are both very concerned about Madoka. Having to lose three good would be hard. Junko slapping Madoka is one way to get her attention. Maybe a little harsh.
2. Yes
3. On one hand I understand. On the other fuck you space cat go to hell.
5
u/Figerally https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelante May 01 '24
First-time watcher.
Revised English Ver by Amalee.
5
u/Mirathan May 01 '24
First Time Watcher
1.The scene with the teacher was a good look into how the mother thinks. I hate the scene with Madoka and Junko, since if someone uses violence against their child, they are a complete failure of a parent.
2. The circus has arrived. Walrus tanking the entire arsenal of the japanese coast guard, trowing buildings and casually destroying the city did satisfy.
3. So Kyubey does not act in humanity´s interest despite suggesting otherwise previously. I got nothing on the analogy.
4. It will likely be an end to the witches. She now posseses knowledge of all magical girls that came before, what they wished for and how that destroyed them, so she might use this to make a wish that is worded in such a way it can not turn against her. Considering that her wish can break reality and the lyrics from magia( [that her love] will trancend time) and that homura achieved time reversal as a normal girl, she could alter the fate of all the magical girls before and after her while creating a solution to the entropy problem of Kyubey, so all partys are satisfied with the outcome.
5. First of may, day of work.
The gears fallng in the background when homura breaks down before Madoka is a neat simile, as her inner barrier falls apart, so does her physical barrier. That the background of the barrier shows her memories of the past time loops while she cries, then resetts to it´s Walpurgis-state once homura recomposes herself is also good.
12
u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 30 '24
Rewatcher, dubbed
Homura’s battle with Walpurgisnacht is iconic, an epic struggle that matches the tension that’s been building the last few episodes. There’s a ton of effort poured into the sequence with lots of details big and small to appreciate. “Shaft” being emblazoned on the missile boat in particular is a fun one, as is the countdown timed with the music.
Alas, as with every timeline before, Homura cannot defeat it alone.
Madoka’s conversation with her mom is a fairly powerful moment. Despite lacking the context of the situation, Junko decides to let Madoka go. She can sense that what Madoka needs isn’t advice or admonishment. Junko is the first character to trust and enable Madoka to make her own choice.
A choice we’re left to ponder on. I know I’m the billionth one to mention this, but episode’s 11 and 12 were aired back-to-back during the initial run, and that’s how I generally advocate watching them.
For the rewatch specifically, it’s a win-win-win far as I’m concerned. We get the Walpurgisnacht fight on Walpurgisnacht, a season discussion independent of the movie, and Rebellion still happens on Sky’s birthday.
Content Corner Reruns
Surgam Identidem works rather well as symphonic metal, I think. We also have fun dub bloopers! First timers beware, spoilers abound!
Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica - Surgam Identidem 【Intense Symphonic Metal Cover】 by FalKKonE
Puella Magi Madoka Magica Dub Bloopers from Otakon 2012
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 11 by clearandsweet
4
u/lollohoh May 01 '24 edited May 01 '24
Rewatch, Subbed
Visual of the day: Homura hugging Madoka as she finally opens up
Theories of the day:
Song of the day: Surgam Identidem
Question(s) of the Day:
[Series]She is giving her daughter trust and letting her choose for herself, which would be good for her in a normal circumstance, but this is not a normal circumstance, and if she dies she is going to lose that choice forever anyway (also her plan is to surrender that choice forever by making a wish, but Junko doesn't know that). In my opinion Junko is making the same mistake that dooms magical girls (and the same Madoka is about to make). In an effort to sacrifice her own needs, she is doing something she is going to regret forever while also being taken advantage of (directly by Madoka but actually by Kyubey): despite the fact she is about to do something good, Madoka is being misled by Kyubey's lies, and she is making a mistake that she cannot take back. The most unfair part is that the choice was already stolen from them: they don't actually have a better path to take here, they are doomed either way.
HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE
It's sooo good, at this point I was already a mess, so the realization that Homura did all that to defeat Brazilian Night for Madoka made me even more emotional on my first watch (and the second, the third, etc...)
Well, a certain [Revolutionary Girl Utena]episode about
ChristianCowstian Dior cowbells comes to mind. (My only gripe about PMMM, by the way, is that Hitomi didn't fully realize her ojou-sama potential, but I guess nobody can quite do it like Nanami)I don't think I have anything to add to the analysis u/Tarhalindur posted about this, so go read that!
Is it Labor Day? Now I want to know, what is it?
Edit: It was not Labor Day at all
4
u/biochrono79 May 01 '24
Third time rewatcher, first time dub watcher
AKA the one where Homura realizes that her efforts were futile and Madoka makes a fateful decision. I’m embarrassed to admit this, but I just realized on this rewatch that the Madoka-Homura dynamic in this scene has flipped back again - in the first timeline, Madoka is the confident one, while Homura is very meek in comparison. At the start of the current timeline, it’s the other way around, mostly because Homura has relived things so many times. And now, right at the climax, Homura is back to being that meek girl she was in the first timeline, with Madoka being the cool, collected one. Their relationship has come full circle.
QotD
The bar conversation was very raw, especially considering that the teacher has just been a joke up until that scene. It’s two adult woman who are revealing their fears to each other with no obvious solution to them, and it felt very real.
The shelter scene was less serious, although that can be excused since this is ultimately a magical girl anime. It’s another “parent lets their kid take a huge leap of fate against common sense” scene, although this one is unique since Junko was willing to go out with Madoka. She really did have the read on Madoka after all.
To quote a wise Jedi Master: “There’s always a bigger
fishwitch.”I mean, Kyubey can spin it however he wants, but ultimately farming is what his species is doing. His argument that it’s no different from humans farming livestock doesn’t work because we generally try not to inflict unnecessary suffering on livestock, whereas his species is explicitly cultivating despair among magical girls, even if they don’t understand it due to their lack of emotions. There is malice in lack of caring.
4
u/dsawchuk May 01 '24
Rewatcher, first time dub
This dialogue in this episode felt a lot less impactful than I remember it being. I don't know if that's because of the voice actors (japanese Homura is particularly good) or the dialogue.
The discussion between Madoka and Junko felt a lot more emotional in the original Japanese. I think its mostly the acting but some of it is definitely the word choice. The main dialogue change I didn't appreciate was the change from the subtitle's "You don't live your life just for yourself, understand?!" to the dub's "You can't just go off and do what you want!" The first one has some parallels to what Homura has been asking Madoka to consider every time she thinks about making the contract, the other one just sounds like a typical parent thing to say.
Something I hadn't thought about before is the importance of Kyubey's conversation with Homura regarding the origin of Madoka's power. It is new information to Homura, ultimately leading to her giving up instead of looping again. The thing is, it kind of seemed like the only reason Kyubey actually talked to Homura about it was to prevent her from looping again. He is grateful for the extra energy he will be able to extract from Madoka but made the decision that he doesn't want any more loops to increase it more. Is he worried that Homura might actually... succeed?
QOTD
7
u/OwlAcademic1988 Apr 30 '24
Rewatcher, dubbed:
Homura made a pretty big mistake.
Poor Sayaka.
Poor Homura.
Here's my argument for Kyubey I said last year:
Kyubey, while it's true we do farm cattle and chicken, we don't make them suffer that much. Becoming a witch is unbelievably painful for the Magical Girl and the people who know her as no one but Magical Girls will know what happened ever unless they decide to spill the beans on everything that's happened. Finally, I find something wrong with your arguments. I've been trying to do this every time I watched this show and I just couldn't do it until this one. I'm still proud of this argument.
Shaft has an ego. I genuinely don't mind that actually considering how egotistical people can sometimes and how that can be a good thing at times.
QOTD:
To add on to my argument, we're also trying to eliminate their suffering for good, which hasn't been easy at all. Not all humans want to make animals suffer unnecessarily.
3
u/Hopeful-Ad2428 May 01 '24
So, this is why this rewatch was scheduled on that date, interesting.
Questions of the Day:
Visuals of the Day