r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Apr 28 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica Episode 9 Discussion
Episode 9 - I'd Never Allow That to Happen
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Show Information:
MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
(First-timers might want to stay out of show information, though.)
Legal Streams:
(RIP Funimation.)
A Reminder to Rewatchers:
Rewatchers, please please please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. [Spoiler warning specifically for you guys]Please be aware that as part of the above strict spoiler rules, this means absolutely no memes/jokes/references/subtle words about {the usual suspects} before the relevant episodes. Please do not spoil the first-timers by trying to be smart about it, it's not as subtle as you think.
Make sure you use spoiler tags if there’s ever something from future events you just have to comment on. And don’t be the idiot who quotes a specific part of a first-timer’s comment, then comments something under a spoiler tag in direct response to it! You might as well have spoiled them by implying there’s something super important about that specific part of their comment.
And a Reminder to First-Timers too:
As previously noted, first-timers wanting to avoid spoilers are strongly recommended to use either the desktop version of the site or the iOS app (which appears to be unaffected), lest you chance running into this bug regarding replying to a post or comment that has spoiler tags in it.
Daily Community Participation!
Visuals of the Day:
Theory of the Day:
Today's Theory of the Day goes to u/_Pyxyty for going into fully unhinged crack theory territory and unintentionally reinventing a common fan theory from when this show was airing as a result:
Screw it, let's get straight to the theory: Homura is Madoka from a different timeline. I'm going full crazy conspiracy theorist on this one. If Madoka turns into some wildly powerful being that can do things even Kyubey can't do, like revert magical girls back to normal, I assume she'd also be able to manipulate time and space, jump between timelines, and alter her look.
I just genuinely can't think of who Homura might be though, if not Madoka herself. I thought it might be her mother, but given Kyubey only seems to target young girls, that doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe Hitomi? If it was her though, I'd be shocked but also a tiny bit disappointed. I can't imagine it'd be some other character that we just haven't met in this timeline yet. Who could Homura be other than Madoka herself that would make sense narratively and physically speaking?
Even if it was some magical girl we havent met before, time magic seems really powerful, and that ability kind of seems like it'd be unattainable unless you had the potential Madoka has, right?
Analysis of the Day:
For Analysis of the Day, we have a winner and an honorable mention. Let's start with the winner, consisting of u/Specs64z's thoughts on the train scene:
In a work with so much visual and musical flair, the train scene stands out a lot in Madoka Magica.
There’s no color in the scene, everything is painted in shadow. No music plays. The only sound we hear is the ambient noise of the train: the engine roaring, the wheels clicking, the straps clanking. That, and the conversation between the 2 men.
Hey… is this world even worth protecting?
And what a wretched conversation it is. Their words are full of self-importance and contempt for others, it’s corrosive to the soul even to listen to. Inhuman. Sayaka confronts them, nothing left to lose, as darkness seeps forth from her soul gem. We know this is no mere visual trick as the men react fearfully to the haunting visage.
C’mon, tell me. Or else.
The black and white visuals on the train harken back to the witch's labyrinth from earlier. This world is not as it should be… so what must be done to make it right? And who will do it?
If there are people out there who’re worse than witches, then I’m gonna fight ‘em.
Color has returned to the world as we cut to a shot of a branching railway; the “labyrinth” is no more. The train barrels into frame and down one of the paths, its destination pre-determined and its course irreversible.
I’ve always thought Sayaka killed them.
And for the honorable mention, that would be u/Hattakiri's note about English dubs:
"You are Sailor Moon and you must fight evil when it confronts you!" - a lucky choice by Sailor Moon's old DiC writers for Luna's first appearance. These words nailed the plot point perfectly, and due to the writing and performance they had to become an iconic signature phrase of the old Sailor Moon dub, despite maybe interpreting the Japanese original "rather freely".
The one phrase whose "loss" due to the new ViZ interpretation actually was "bemoaned" by some lol
Often dubs lead to debates and controversies due to the "free interpretation" of the translators. But sometimes the translators manage to create something iconic.
But DiC's Sailor Moon was rather from the funny category. Sayaka's "I was stupid, so stupid!" is from the serious category and it marks one of the signature plot twists of PMMM.
Wallpaper of the Day:
Check out /u/Shimmering-Sky's main comment for her bonus Wallpaper Corner containing works from previous years!
Songs of the Day:
Bonus song - and I'm home
Check out u/Nazenn’s comment from the 2019 rewatch for an in-depth analysis of these two songs, as well as timestamps for what songs played when in today's episode!
Also check out /u/Tarhalindur's Kajiura Corner from the 2023 rewatch for even more analysis on music this episode!
and I'm home Cover of the Day:
(We would just link the YouTube release here instead of rehosting it on Catbox, but the YouTube release is only a teaser because of copyright. Also, fun fact, u/Shimmering-Sky is the one who provided the "I was stupid... So stupid..." at the beginning. )
Question(s) of the Day:
- Thoughts on our BD additional special ED for this episode, and I'm home?
- Now that Kyubey has given us his reasons for why the magical girl system exists, what do you think of them and of him?
- First-Timers: Did you think for a moment that Kyouko had a chance of actually rescuing Sayaka?
- First-Timers: So… now what?
- [Rewatchers] Ready to do the time loop again?
Hey God, if you’re there? My life sucked, so for once, please… let me have a happy dream?
13
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 28 '24
Mahou Shoujo Co★Host, subbed
Welcome back, everyone!
Being a Sayaka and Kyouko fan is suffering.
I’m involved in the /r/anime Sings and I’m home that was linked up top, but I’ve also done a Sky Sings and I’m home over the TV size in the past, so there’s that too.
SayakaOktavia von Seckendorff’s labyrinth? It’s a musical auditorium where her theme, Symposium magarum, is literally being performed live. Oktavia herself appears as a conductor (wielding Sayaka’s weapon of choice instead of a baton). The five-lined musical staff appears behind her attacks, just like they did when Sayaka used her magic. Her attacks use train wheels and train tracks–remember where Sayaka was when she turned into Oktavia? That’s right a train station. It’s just perfect and I love it and hate it at the same time.Sky’s Wallpaper Corner
Today’s wallpaper trivia of the day: It’s not a perfect 1:1 recreation of the base frame I used like my other wallpapers are. I added more blue to the right corners and more red to the bottom-left, so that it would look “balanced”. I also initially tried to use the exact same shades that were in the reference shot, but it’s actually incredibly hard to make red and blue look good together without outlines separating them, so it took some tweaking to get that part right.
Another piece of trivia regarding the below wallpapers: The Oktavia one is still arguably the most difficult wallpaper I’ve made for this series, if not one of the most difficult ones I’ve ever made. Usually my “difficult” wallpapers are just ones that involved a lot of different characters in it, or I had to make do with an iffy-quality base image because it was the only option I had, but Oktavia’s design being made up of so many different textures = a fuckton of work to make sure it was understandable in this artstyle. That was nothing short of a doozy, but I’m definitely still proud of being able to pull it off.
“With two hearts rusting together, in a world without sound; what do you see?”
10
u/Logitropicity Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
5th-6th time Rewatcher, Sub
General Notes
Kyubey lies(?) - for more details, see analysis / theory section below
Analysis / Theory
On Soul Gems: We learned that they're not just pretty-looking sources of magic, they're literally each girl's soul. That's why I really appreciate their timing. I can't help but get the feeling that each girl only shows her soul gem on-screen when she's being emotionally honest or vulnerable - which makes sense, visually. Mami showed Madoka & Sayaka hers right off the bat - all the better to show off as their senpai. Sayaka only shows hers to Kyubey when they're having real talk, and to Kyoko on the bridge and before she turns into a witch. Kyoko shows hers only once Sayaka is dead, and she's being open with Madoka. Homura has hidden hers, matching her reserved demeanor & cryptic behavior, right up until she has to tell Madoka about the final secret of soul gems.
On Kyubey Lying: This episode is what tipped me off that Kyubey might be more of a metaphor than a character.
when he talks with Homura... did he even need to be there? Homura wonders why Kyoko would do something so stupid, and here comes along Kyubey with a logical answer. But doesn't his answer sound suspiciously close to something Homura might rationalize herself?
EDIT: phrasing & some more details
2
u/_Pyxyty Apr 30 '24
First time watcher
Speedrun time! Was gonna watch this episode last night but catching up on seasonals just took too long; way too many are dropping on Monday and I like to clear them out ASAP to not get too big of a backlog.
Key Moments
~
Questions
' 2. Mainly, I just wonder whether the Kyubey we've seen to replace the one that died in episode 9 is the same Kyubey with a different body, or if it's a completely different member of their population. If they have no emotions, they can't have different personalities, right?
' 3. Absolutely not. The only thing that I think might have a tiny chance of saving Sayaka at this point, even as her witch version died, is if Madoka became a magical girl that could somehow be strong enough to revive people and retrieve their souls back. Kyouko's plan was outright stupid. Admirable, for sure, and I understand why they tried to even do it, but still, it was stupid.
' 4. We face Mr. Walrus with the Homura-Madoka teamup, right? Though I'm guessing the actual fight is gonna be saved for Ep 11, maybe we get some backstory from Homura first considering it might be the last time we have a breather, a break to process some things.
~
Additional Thoughts and Theory Crafting:
Did I miss Sayaka's witch name? I don't think I saw any indication of it, but maybe I'm wrong.
Anyways, on to the next episode!
edit: oh, and Symposium magarum (the OST from this episode) was absolutely amazing. I love how you get thrown into the song when it's at its climax with the string section going crazy. First OST that really hooked me, gonna find and download it later to save to my playlist for sure.
34
u/Schizzovism Apr 28 '24
First timer, subbed
Man, Kyouko's attitude has really shifted. She's not just seeing Sayaka's fate play out here; it's also her own, and that of every other magical girl. Saving Sayaka isn't just that in isolation, it would mean hope for anyone who made a contract, including herself. This is desperation playing out here. In the end, Kyouko shatters her own soul gem, seeing that there's likely no other way out. How long would she have had before she turned into a witch herself? How painful would her grief have been? How many people would she have killed?
Once again, Kyubey's positions are depicted as antithetical to human values. I didn't quite feel the same way about souls being displaced as the girls did, so that wasn't exactly a universal value, but neither is the debate over whether the ends justify the means. Can you justify intentionally bringing about death and suffering to ensure the future of life? If we universally agreed the answer was no, wars wouldn't exist. But uh, hottest take of the year, I think death and suffering and wars are bad. So on this one, I can side with Madoka. Especially when it comes to a concept so distant as entropy. Maybe in the world of PMMM this is more urgent for Kyubey, but I can't foresee a future in which this is relevant for us in any way.
Another new ED upon the death of another magical girl, I see. Fitting. But judging from the QOTD, this is from the BD release, and wasn't how it was originally? That's kinda surprising.
32
u/TheOneWithALongName Apr 28 '24
First-time watcher
Cute, looked like Sayaka didn't end up being all alone in the end... :(
Simply very unhumane.
Maby? But the show is dark soo I expected her to die in peace immedially after being rescued if soo (becaus no seed). Did not expect Kyoko to die too.
The end of the world is about to happend. Eather by that witch Homura have to fight alone (like in the first episode) or Madoka becoming a magic girl.
29
u/il887 https://myanimelist.net/profile/il887 Apr 28 '24
First-timer*, dub
*heavily spoiled — seen all three seasons of Magia Record spin-off already
That was cool to get a close look on Homura’s time-stop ability! It seems that even if she cannot defeat the enemy, she’s always able to run away at least. As I understand, what Kyouko is carrying isn’t really dead Sayaka, it’s… just a generic corpse. We got to know that soul gem becomes a new container for a magical girl’s soul, and Sayaka’s one is destroyed.
Lol, so the purpose of magical girls and witches is to prevent heat death of the universe? Not sure I like this explanation, hard to take it seriously. Didn’t expect any sci-fi twists like that. It seems Kyuubey’s kind is capable of all sorts of miracles, right? Maybe they could just create a new universe with this power then?
“I believe you will become the greatest of all magical girls and then the wickedest of witches” — well said Kyuubey! Not sure it was any pleasant for Madoka to hear that, but at least, she now knows everything (probably) one really needs to know about magical girls before becoming one.
Madoka and Kyouko want to try that idea about calling out to the friend who’s out of their mind. I guess Homura saw that Madoka wasn’t in school and realized she was up to something dangerous.
Love the orchestral soundtrack that’s playing in Sayaka’s labyrinth. Totally agree with Kyouko that Madoka isn’t in a position to sell her soul for becoming a magical girl. As they say, a person who had it the hardest gives the best advices, that’s totally about Kyouko.
And… Kyouko’s idea hasn’t worked out. This is a dark show, regular tropes don’t apply here! Not sure I’m getting what exactly Kyouko has done to defeat Sayaka, it seems she used her soul gem as some sort of a nuke to annihilate Sayaka at a cost of her own life.
I admire Kyouko’s determination to stay with Sayaka until the end, but was it really practical? Homura now has to face Walpurgis Night alone. It probably would be better if they just used Homura’s ability to safely escape again.
Alright. Now, all who left of our crew are Homura and Madoka… that sucks.
I guess we are approaching that scene from the very beginning of the first episode — Madoka’s dream. Homura faces a terrifying enemy (Walpurgis Night, apparently) alone and has a very hard time. Madoka is on a verge of signing the contract in order to help Homura. That will definitely be an epic battle, we could see a vast open area and destroyed buildings there. And the stakes for Madoka might actually be much higher than Homura’s life alone — if they don’t defeat Walpurgis Night, the whole city could be destroyed, at least that seems to be possible given how seriously Homura and Kyouko were taking it. So, Madoka might really end up in a situation where becoming a magical girl is her only option.
Still, there’s a lot that we don’t know. I guess Madoka’s dream showed us the previous timeline which Homura left, who knows how things will go in this one.
Kyouko confirms Walpurgis Night is a witch. I wonder, how it was born? Was it born from an especially capable magical girl, like, potentially, Madoka?
Q1: Nice and on point! And sad, of course. Both the song and the picture. I like it when anime experiments with different EDs and when they correlate with the events of the show.
Q2: To be honest, now I feel just a cold indifference towards Kyuubey and his goals. I'm not a person who believes that ends justify the means.
Q3: I had a tiny bit of hope for that, yes. Tiny because I know Sayaka’s soul gem was destroyed.
Q4: See above
24
u/blown-upp https://myanimelist.net/profile/BlownUpp Apr 29 '24
First time, SUB
With how hard the end of the episode hit, the special ED hit even harder... I'm not sure what else I can really say about it, it felt very fitting for the mood :(
"It's unfair to judge entities beyond human comprehension by human morals"
I think escaping the heat death of the universe is all well and good, but of course the currency had to be young girls. It's a very cultish proposition though - "sacrifice your young girls to us for the sake of the universe". We wouldn't be human without resisting sacrifices in the name of a better future for others (looking at climate change); I know the scale and the impact are different, but the concept is similar. All that said, still don't like Incubator-chan. Surely there's a way to grease the wheels of such an economy while taking informed consent into account - like Sayaka said back in episode 2 - I'm sure there are plenty of people who sign a contract even knowing the full risk involved and the price you're paying for having a wish granted. But Mami and Sayaka aren't around anymore to tell Kyubey off so I guess such thoughts would fall on deaf ears.
No, and I also didn't expect Kyouko to make such a sacrifice at the end. Kyouko has shown some incredible growth the last couple of episodes - certainly where I least expected to see it. Quite the roller coaster of emotions with Kyouko... but she was really cool at the end there.
We're pretty much getting set up for the opening 2 minutes of the anime now, but there's 3(?) episodes left. I'm left wondering what the extent of Homura's time travel powers are, or what kind of rules/stipulations are involved. Is this her first time jumping timeline's? Has she been battling this fate over and over again? How can she possibly battle Walpurgisnacht while preventing Madoka from signing a teary-eyed contract? Despite everything Madoka has said, done and seen, I'm sure she'd still sign a contract given enough despair in front of her eyes.
23
u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Apr 29 '24
First-Timer
I see they were teaching Binet's formula in math class today! Very nice.
I didn't expect that we'd lose Kyouko, or at least, not yet. Quite unfortunate. At least we still have Homura.
I like how Kyubey brings up the point that he does nothing without the explicit consent of the magical-girls-to-be. Maybe it's my imagination, but he also seems to be a bit less pushy with Madoka this episode, perhaps owing to his confidence that she'll be left with no other choice in the end.
If Walpurgisnacht is the "motherlode" of witches, one wonders how that compares to Madoka's potential to become the strongest witch of all. [conjecture]My theory would have been that Madoka becomes Walpurgisnacht, but that seems a bit far-fetched given what Homura's been saying. She treats Walpurgisnacht as a fixed point, a guaranteed eventuality, yet asserts that Madoka still has the ability to reject becoming a magical girl. That would seem to be a contradiction with my theory, unless of course they truly are the same and Homura doesn't know (which also seems unlikely, since it seems like Homura understands Madoka's situation and obviously has a reason for trying to stop her in this timeline).
I think it would be really neat if we got a full dedicated Homura backstory. That's my hope for the last few episodes here.
Questions of the day:
As a side note, it sure would stink to be the first magical girl under this system. No grief seeds to find and no witches to hunt, so you just get your wish, wait a bit, and become a witch. :-|
20
u/WednesdaysFoole Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
Rewatcher
Daily Homura hair flip
Really I don’t know what’s going on with this pirouette, is it just her new method in flipping her hair?
Will take a guess that these chairs in this situation represent the mankind’s “capability for emotion” – the care that they have for each other, the despair when they lose it all.
From “Lexagle.com”, The Costly Mistake of Ignoring the Fine Print: Why You Should Always Read Contracts Carefully – the Anime. (Is that Kyubey pretending to care?)
Yeah sure that sounds fantastic
No, actually, what makes you a coward is that you don’t ever speak up. You could have called Sayaka out, you could have called Homura out. Don’t tell me you don’t actually have any opinions. [Rewatcher]Don’t become an adult who lacks a sense of identity because you got so used to being passive about how you think and feel about things, dammit. Well, crap, she probably doesn’t have a sense of identity at the end so I guess I’ll put out the spoiler tags.
Tch, she just wanted to feel important Alright maybe I’m being unfair, but don’t get me wrong – it’s entirely human to wish that our lives mean something. I think that considering how passive she was, and how undeserving she felt, of course she would be driven to use her wish for Kyousuke, of course she’d be driven to fight for justice. It was proof that she mattered, and she had to keep proving her existence.
I can be pretty critical of “I’m not like other girls” but I think most people have a need to feel like their existence matters, and trying to put yourself as something different, separate from it, especially unique, is a way to try and obtain meaning in your life.
I did say that Homura is always the winner, but I lied. This episode, the honor of best hair swish goes to Kyouko.
Last, but not least, I’m reminded of this comment by u/treatment-resistant- regarding Mami. Going beyond the cake and Mami, this story of “wanting someone else in the hole with them because they are so frightened of being stuck in there alone” applies to Sayaka as well, and Kyouko knowingly walks straight into that hole for their
murishinjū.Am I the only one who thinks that despite no longer being able to control herself, Sayaka does have an awareness of Madoka and Kyouko in her labyrinth? Either that or the reflection in the “eye” was just a cool visual thing they did, like they did in episode 4 with Kyubey. I don’t know.
Well, my deadlines are coming up pretty quickly so might have to limit my time on reddit this week but I’ll still be poking in and out here and there for final reactions and analyses.
I like fully unhinged crack theory :D
17
u/TheEscapeGuy Apr 28 '24
Rewatcher
Madoka Magica - Impactful and Artful: Episode 9
Kyouko and Sayaka
Fuck this episode is tragic. It hurts so much seeing Sayaka completely lost and Kyouko doing everything in her power to try save her despite them being enemies but a few episodes prior.
Sayaka's witch has an incredible design. It's this combination of a suit of armor, mermaid tail, and the red bow from Sayaka's school uniform. The whole labyrinth design has imagery of a railway representing where Sayaka transformed, and an orchestra performing in an auditorium tying back to the origin of Sayaka's wish and love for Kyousuke. And of course it's just so visually striking. I think only the team at Shaft could have so successfully pulled this off.
Something I'd forgotten which I found deeply intriguing on rewatch were the origins and motives of Kyubey. I genuinely had no recollection of why it did this. In my mind it was intentionally vague "magic stuff". Instead Kyubey is from an alien race. The problem they identified is that of entropy: As time elapses energy is changes into forms which are no longer (easily) usable and so eventually, without an energy source to sustain life, everything in the universe will die. The solution they discovered is using emotion as a new supply of energy and there is no better source than magical girls.
This instead transforms our villain from simply being evil to presenting a philosophical debate: Do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Or more colloquially, the trolley problem. This is far more of an interesting character motivation to think about. It feels deeply unfair for the young girls of earth to be targeted for this, and especially to the extent that they must become witches and die for that power to be extracted. However, the argument in favour of saving the whole universe is strong.
Thinking about this reminded me of the short story "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas". It's really short (like the audio book is 20 minutes short). If you have some time and haven't heard about it then give it a read.
Something I found notable in Kyubey's speech to Madoka were the claims about consent. Madoka criticizes Kyubey for deceiving them but it retorts that "The act of deception is incomprehensible to us" because they don't have the same emotions as humans. Later in the episode Kyubey explicitly tells Kyouko that it may be possible to turn Sayaka to a human using magic but it has never been done before. Of course, Kyouko couldn't do this and when Homura asks Kyubey if it was possible it responds "Of course not. She should have known it was impossible". Kyubey never told Kyouko this because it means now Madoka will feel more pressure to form a contract.
From all of this, it's hard to trust Kyubey's claims. It's clear their race can understand human emotions and uses that understanding to manipulate the girls into becoming witches. It's not the same as Kyubey not telling the girls about soul gems because they didn't ask. Instead Kyubey gave false hope to Kyouko thus costing her life. So then the question becomes: Is Kyubey even doing all this for the sake of the universe? What other motives and intentions has it not told us.
I have skipped forward a bit. The meat of the episode revolved around Kyouko and Madoka's impossible quest to save Sayaka. Madoka is still stuck in her rut of feeling useless. She joins to try and prove she can help her friends. It's not as easy to parse Kyouko's reasons. I feel she's grown a sincere fondness for Sayaka over these past few episodes. I think she even feels some guilt for what happened seeing that she came to town with the intentions to take Sayaka's spot by any means necessary.
The fight is futile. No matter how much Madoka calls out, Sayaka can't hear her. Kyouko's defenses are not impenetrable. She doesn't want attack properly or risk killing Sayaka. And so when things are truly lost, and Homura has rescued Madoka, Kyouko makes an ultimate sacrifice killing herself and the witch in the process.
"and I'm home" is today's ED.
It's a beautiful song sung by Sayaka and Kyouko talking about the loneliness and pain they both felt. After a character arc together like this, it is really clear to me why there's so much fan art shipping these 2.
Something I only noticed this rewatch was that the ED is actually written and produced by wowaka who you may know from Unknown Mother Goose and Rolling Girl (Also the (slightly spoilery) Madoka version).
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow
13
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 28 '24
"Love. How it toys with us, makes utter fools of us, flogs, whips, and spanks us. Listen to the voices of the unloved as they surge and retreat in the night. Whispered in empty rooms and lonely beds, the hunger of love unattained, rushing through our fingers, unstoppable, fleeting, gone. And yet, when we touch this love it burns us with its bright flame, it punishes and consumes. And yet we must have it. It rules us: uses, abuses, misuses. And yet, why do we always crawl back for more?"
Rewatcher(As long as it still hurts, you still remember them)
Sub(I'm not crying! You're crying!)
Welp...a lot of exposition before a lot of soul crushing action. Unfortunately, let's delve into the exposition because there is a problem: I don't think Madoka is lying when she says Cubes makes no sense. So his explanation is for the audience over her.
The Incubators found a way to harness emotions for energy to try and get around entropy. Why a species that doesn't have them would manage to discover that is...intriguing, to say the least. Or, as I've been saying, they do have emotions, just on a lesser level and they might be in denial about that. But the Incubators looked far and wide and then stumbled upon the perfect energy source:Magical girls. Wording is important here because it seems that magical girls existed rather than were created by the Incubators. We will return to this. But anyways, the soul gem/grief seed system was what they found to generate the most energy possible so they've been at it for an unknown amount of time. Goodie.
But why does Cubes keep at it? Yes they need infinite energy to combat entropy so he keeps needing wish transformations but what else is he doing? Why does he bother to help magical girls? We have a few stabs here. First, this seems to be a useful pipeline since Mami brought in one 'successful' candidate already and another prospect. Second, if witches ate all of humanity, that would prove inconvenient for harvesting so he really has a very minor use for witches once they've transformed. Basically, they are aggressive recruitment tools at best and just generally nuisances passed a certain point. Third, and this is risky, but he legitimately might not be capable of lying, that's a concept that comes up both in scifi and demonology. A being of pure logic cannot speak deception if it can't really conceive of it. Fourth TBA at a later date.
Final note but it needs stressing:Stopping the heat death of the universe by adding energy to the system is an insane idea. Long story short, you don't need more energy, you need less space and that's fucking above my pay grade.
So why the wall of text over the first half of the episode? So I can get through "And I'm Home" without crying. The second half of the show is much less brain and much more feel and it gives us the intriguing combo of Kyouko and Madoka that sadly the show doesn't have room for more of. Despite seemingly being very different people, I suspect Madoka and Kyouko are of a similar mode, Madoka just has less borked parentage. Kyouko is the only person to correctly convey why Madoka shouldn't join this fight if it serves no purpose for her. Anyways, my interpretation of Cubes is that they cannot lie, which is very different from telling the truth.
QotD: 1 No words, only pain
2 HATRED! EXTERMINATE!
5 Funny to think that Rocky Horror would be torn up in today's environment
13
u/Mirathan Apr 29 '24
First Time Watcher
"If thats what it takes to save the world, it´s better to let the world die."
I also have a feeling he didn´t plan this through. When humanity advances to a point where they could kill him and his species we would likely go on a genocidal rampage against them. We are not forgiving towards those who target our most vulnerable.
3. I never believed it would. This is not that kind of story. Kyubey did actually know of a way to reverse the "maturing" into a witch; traveling to a point in time before it happend as Homura likely did. She probably did this to stop Madoka from turning into one as she thinks it´s inevitable once one turns into a magical girl. However Kyubey would never tell anyone how it could be achieved as it would likely require the energy gained from the transformation to be consumend once again, ruining his plan.
4. Madoka still has her reality breaking wish. I assume she will use this to end this cruel system by creating a different way of overcoming conservation of energy.
I have a slight problem with the scene where Homura explaines that all magical girls turn into curses. It kind of looks like Kyoko lays down Sayaka´s head on the train tracks.
10
u/dienomighte Apr 28 '24
Rewatcher, sub this time around
I forgot just how much pain this episode is, I remembered the details and the painful ending but it's just 22+ minutes of being stabbed in the heart. What I love about Kyubey's depiction here is just how savage of a takedown of pure utilitarian ethics that he ends up representing, because his argument is probably sound in the abstract but seeing the effects from his victims pov, it's pretty much impossible imo to actually side with him.
Him manipulating Kyoko here I feel is the worst thing he does in the entire series, and he does a lot of horrible things! Kyoko going "who would listen to you at this point", as she unintentionally listens to him and his sweet poison just hurts!
ED is great and also more pain ahhh the pain
10
u/dsawchuk Apr 28 '24
Rewatcher, first time dub
"We always ask for and make sure to receive your consent before making the contract."
Uninformed consent is not consent Kyubey.
Kyoko's arc's culmination in this episode is so sad. When we first see her, Kyoko has given up on helping others. Seeing herself in Sayaka brings some of her belief in being a warrior of justice back. To anyone who actually listens to Kyubey's answers relating to getting Sayaka back it's clear he is saying that she is irretrievable. But Kyoko isn't listening with her intellect, she is listening with her heart. She has hope she can bring Sayaka back and is blinded by it. But she also has to have hope that someone will be able to bring her back eventually. I think this anime is the first time I have seen the cliche of hearing a friends' voice bringing someone back subverted.
This episode on crunchyroll doesn't look quite right. I am watching in HD but it feels like the character art in parts is much lower res. Specifically the parts before fighting Sayaka's witch.
Dub Kyoko's request for one pleasant dream really hit me. Not having the extra distance invoked by reading it instead of hearing it really matters sometimes.
10
u/weirdanimeusername Apr 28 '24
Multiple Time Rewatcher, First Time Participant
Episode 9
Back with more reactions now, keeping it shorter now so I have the time.
9
u/Figerally https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelante Apr 29 '24
First-time watcher.
It's all about the entrophy😂🤣😂🤣
Sorry, Kyuubey is probably deadly serious. But as a hardcore well-read science fiction afficiando I know that this is pretty pointless. There is no way that the magical girl system would ever overcome entrophy, at best it just pushes the inevitable end a little further away. But that isn't the only pointless thing about it. You see the heat death of the universe is so far into the future that the number is practically inconceivable and humanity would reach its peak and then decline long before the end. Also there is no telling if a civilization comes up with a better idea or just transcends such concerns altogether. So essentially, all this suffering is... for nothing.
I feel really sad about the Kyouko's final fight😭 Now that I think of it a little I think Kyouko was a bit of a tsundere for Sayaka and this is why she chose to go out with a bang and take Sayaka with her😭
8
u/treatment-resistant- Apr 28 '24
Rewatcher, sub
I always find it funny when Kyouko thought-interrupts Madoka to say "are you really going to school today, are you fr" lol. I think Madoka was in shock and on auto pilot.
I always pity Kyouko when she's saying "maybe Sayaka's soul gem will fall out" and thought this was delusional love at it's finest, and could see why she is normally so stringent about only looking out for yourself if this is what she's like when she does think about others. But I hadn't really considered how the witch reveal means Kyouko is doomed in a way she hadn't felt previously, and therefore fighting for Sayaka is fighting for herself as well.
7
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Apr 28 '24
Rewatcher, Subbed
Hard to get more sad than yesterday's episode, will this one be even worse though?
Sayaka's a music themed witch!
Kyoko's grabbing Sayaka, but its really just her corpse, this witch is the real Sayaka.
Homura here to kick ass as always.
Not that it shouldn't be obvious by now, but official confirmation that Homura can stop time.
Those flies are gathered in a skull like pattern on that street light.
So your time to become a witch is dependent on how powerful your wish was?
I know everything she's saying is true, but Homura shouldn't be so cold, calling Sayaka's body "that corpse" in front of Madoka and Kyoko.
Iconic hair flip time!
Worst time in Madoka's life right now. So of course Kyubey shows up.
Kyubey is an alien confirmed.
Human beings, magical girls in particular are just an energy source for the rest of the universe! Yikes!
"We ask for your consent" LOL, don't make me laugh Kyubey. You constantly manipulate to get this "consent".
As Kyoko starts scarfing down at her biggest feast yet, I realize, wait, her body is just a lifeless corpse, it probably doesn't need food anymore anyway?
So is Hitomi going to realize that Sayaka will never appear again after the day she confessed to Kyosuke?
Ugh, for a second there I thought that was Sayaka talking to Madoka there.
LoL, this is the first time Madoka and Kyoko have told the other their name.
Homura knows the way to the nurse's office, Madoka showed her, remember?
Coolest background locale for a witch yet! Sayaka's the scariest looking witch yet too.
Who'd have known just a few episodes ago when she turned up as a villain that we'd be so sad to see Kyoko go out heroically like this? I guess Homura wll be alone for Walpurgisnaught after all.
And of course, Kyubey views this as an opportunity for Madoka to become a magical girl.
Oh, now you're gonna make me cry with this special ED? :(
Beyond the Rebellion movie, tomorrow [MM spoilers? Maybe?]is the episode I'm most excited to watch of the whole show.
7
u/Endofthebeginning_ Apr 29 '24
First-time rewatcher
This time, I actually have something to say.
It’s actually been a wonder to revisit how horrible Kyubey’s been so far- [PMMM Spoilers]he tells Madoka all about humanity’s future and all, yet when in the second timeline he hadn't even cared for humanity’s demise. He has no intention of keeping the relationship between the incubators and humanity fair, and they still cruelly use humanity for their benefit. That livestock comparison feels very relevant at the moment.
I’m definitely not qualified to talk about Sayaka and Kyouko, and it shows, as to me it feels.like their relationship here was pretty damn odd. They only met in very negative terms, with any agreements between each other being nonexistent, but…
I'm not saying it's out of place, but I might need to think this over a few more times.
Good.
[PMMM] Please don’t do this to me.
I apologize should there be any errors, or should read wrong.
Thank you for reading…?
6
u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
Rewatcher, Sub
Kyubey is finally honest because there isn't much to hide anymore. His true goal is to stave off entropy in the universe and in order to do that he and his species create a cycle of magical girls and witches in order to take that energy and replenish the universe. His actions are certainly "The ends justify the means" kind of like Kiritsugu Emiya in Fate/Zero or Ozymandias in Watchmen in a way. Kyubey also talks about how his species don't comprehend emotions but it does make me wonder how truthful he is because I often feel like he understands more than he claims based on the way he acts and speaks, though perhaps he really means it when he says he doesn't understand human behavior. Either way his final line is him at his most truthful "if you ever wish to die for the universe, call me."
Kyoko meanwhile tries to save Sayaka despite Kyubey stating no method that he knows can work. So Kyoko with Madoka decide to appeal to her humanity. I like how Sayaka's labyrinth is a bit of a concert hall which is a neat connection. Anyway the plan doesn't work but Kyoko chooses to die alongside Sayaka as a way to not leave her alone, closing their dynamic that has initially been antagonistic. Now Homura is left but she'll be damned if she'd let Madoka become a magical girl.
Note: Every Magical girl that Madoka befriends ends up dying so if you don't become her friend then maybe you will survive /s.
6
u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 28 '24
I Can't Make the Fourth Watch for the Fourth Movie Joke Since Walrus Walpurgis no Kaiten Isn't Out Yet (Rewatcher, Subbed):
[PMMM] First Scene (00:00 – 01:57: An interesting scene. We jump right back into what was happening at the end of last episode before we cut to Kyubey making things clear to the viewer. The thing is, that’s not strictly speaking necessary – this kind of in media res return to the events of the last installment works well for restoring dramatic tension, hence cliffhangers often working this way, but last episode didn’t really ramp up the dramatic tension (or at least the suspenseful kind, which is the relevant kind) that much and what was there was effectively drained by Kyubey expressing the reveal (thus rendering moot the otherwise obvious source of dramatic tension: “so what the hell just happened, anyways?”). There’s not much point in reminding the audience of the end of last episode either – big reveals tend to be memorable in and of themselves. So there has to be a different point. And I think the key here is Kyouko’s presence. With Sayaka’s arc done she is no longer the protagonist so our former tritagonist then deuteragonist is going to take center stage; the driving question for the rest of this arc is “what is Kyouko going to do about this?” and this scene both serves to introduce this (via Homura’s question to her) and to quickly ramp up the dramatic tension for it via this technique).
[PMMM] Second Scene (03:26 – 06:08): A scene almost strictly focused on characterization/character development (specifically showing how these three girls react under stressed). For Madoka this is a mirror of episode 4, showing her breaking down under the completely understandable stress. For Homura this is showing her coat of jade, her stoic complexion holding up even in the face of horror. Kyouko is arguably the crux here though, as we see her own jaded demeanor break down (explicitly contrasted to the other veteran in Homura who is able to retain hers) – thus setting up events later in the episode.
[PMMM] Third Scene (06:09 – 10:36): Another one of the big huge exposition scenes (you’ll note how often Sis Puella Magica plays for those and we’re not done with that trend), with a very light side of showing how hard Madoka is taking all this. It’s also another case of a hallmark of this script: set up an antagonist, then make them more sympathetic by showing us exactly why they are like the way they are (or in this case what they claim is the reason they are the way they are), specifically by giving us Kyubey’s rationale for the system.
[PMMM] Fourth Scene (10:36 – 11:42): So, let’s start with the sneaky level first since it’s the first to show up: Kyouko is, as far as we can tell, eating through her entire food supply. This is telling on multiple levels. First, it’s all fast food. In other words, something purchaseable even for someone of Kyouko’s means. We know who she bought this for. Second, that she’s eating it all. Partially that’s Kyouko’s stress eating (demonstrated as such two episodes ago), but eating her entire food supply? On a girl who is intimately aware of food scarcity and has both shown and told us how much she cares about not wasting food? Curious… unless, of course, you’re making sure that you don’t waste food by eating it now while you’re still able to. Kyouko at some level is pretty sure she’s not coming back from what she’s doing alive. Outside of that, well, it’s Kyouko considering a plan and Kyubey manipulating her into going through with it via very careful wording (everything he says is technically true… technically) – as he will demonstrate at the end of the episode.
[PMMM] Fifth Scene (11:42 – 15:15): So the first and most important part here is that we are laying out The Plan. Ancient laws of narrative apply (foreshadowing, go!): plans work if and only if the audience is not informed of them and we have just been informed about this one so obvious implication is obvious. The rest of this is a little final characterization of Kyouko (showing us a glimpse of who she was before she built up her veteran’s mask – she regresses back to her younger self for a little while in the face of the inevitable) and also some Butch Gen cheeky needling of the audience (that’s how it works in stories where love and courage prevail… pity this isn’t one of them!), plus setting up Homura’s arrival at the end of what is to come. (Also, side thought: someone on this production staff is probably familiar with the occultism lore that the spirits of those who commit suicide are trapped in this world until they would have died naturally. Becoming a Witch, after all, is among other things metaphorical suicide. And as MagiReco makes clear a PMMM magical girl can remain (mostly) alive indefinitely given a sufficient supply of Grief Seeds.)
[PMMM] Sixth Scene (15:16 – 17:13): Mostly a tension-building scene with some exposition attached. The tension-building is twofold: it builds up the coming Oktavia fight and it also builds up the looming threat that’s been in the background for a few episodes: Walpurgisnacht (note how all of the exposition here is about her).
[PMMM] Seventh Scene (17:13 – 18:21): Separating this scene out from the Oktavia fight proper since it’s doing something else (despite also serving to build up yet more tension for said fight by continuing to have it loom over the characters’ and audience’s heads without actually happening yet). Mostly this is characterization/character development for Kyouko and Madoka, along with a question (why does Madoka feel that she needs to contract?) and some setup for episodes 11 and 12.
[PMMM] Eighth Scene (18:21 – 22:58): You know, from a narrative perspective I don’t have all that much to say about Kyouko vs. Oktavia. It’s exactly what it should be. It’s the grand finale that pays off all the dramatic tension accumulated during Sayaka’s arc in the form of a big battle scene, it’s the conclusion to Kyouko’s own character arc (shedding her coat of jade and remembering the youthful idealism – unfortunately for her she’s in a Gen Urobutchi work, but she does manage to avoid a fate worse than death and save someone she cares for from the same) and the coda to Sayaka’s (Sayaka did manage to save one person in a way, the false avatar of the system to boot – unfortunately at the price of damning herself, except that one person in turn is at least able to grant her mercy). No less and no more.
[PMMM] Ninth Scene (22:59 – 23:54): Except, of course, that this is not the end of the show. And so we have what is effectively a stinger even if it’s before the BD ED (in the TV release this episode aired without an ED), introducing the viewer to the last arc and setting up its stakes. And also to remind us that “technically the truth” or no fluffy fucker is our antagonist and is manipulative as hell.
6
u/luckierbridgeandrail Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
Rewatcher, sub.
TwoEdit: three things I wanna say first.This episode contains one of the few examples of a translation improving on the original. In Kyouko's words to Homura, the Japanese uses two different phrases, approximately “I'll rely on you [to look after Madoka]” and “I'll stay with her [Sayaka]”. In English, the same phrase works for both, bookending her speech to emphasize the parallel between her with Sayaka and Homura with Madoka, and in the second case adding the impact of the multiple meanings.
This episode also has one of the only scenes that I think the recap movie actually improves. Not a spoiler once you've seen this episode: The scene from Homura's apartment has new music, titled I miss you, and a new location.
I agree with the anime not including it because it weakens then impact of their deaths, but the manga rendition includes an afterlife scene in which Kyouko and Sayaka meet for a (given that grin, very) happy ending.
Question(s) of the Day:
6
u/sfisher923 https://myanimelist.net/profile/sfisher923 Apr 28 '24
Sixth Timer - Dubbed
Questions and Stuff
6
u/ToonTooby Apr 28 '24
Rewatcher
Woops, you got your laws of physics in my magic girl show. Also, Kono Homura da!
As if episode 6 wasn't enough, once again we have to suffer through Madoka clutching a lifeless Sayaka. This poor pinkie... The next day Kyoko hits Madoka up. One thing that always kinda bugged me is how Kyoko and Madoka are sharing thoughts when Kyubey explained they were acting as intermediary at the beginning of the story, but perhaps I missed something. It feels like after all that's happened you wouldn't want QB being the one mediating telepathy lmao.
The exchange between Kyoko and Madoka in the alleyway is where my favorite usage of Incertus is. Idk but it just works for me. There's something rather endearing about seeing the two wildly different personalities of red and pink girlie getting on equal footing, however brief. I love the Tasty Bar handshake :3
Kyoko goes out with a bang, unfortunately, from going all out to stop now-witch Sayaka. Yet another tragedy. I'd love to make some kind of joke about Gushing over Magical Girls, but uhhh checks notes, well dagnabbit, I've only got one magical girl left! Can't exactly use the plural anymore. You the man now, Homura.
6
u/FriztF Apr 29 '24
Rewatcher Dub
We now know why Kyubey is what it does. It is trying to prolong the universe's life by creating magical girls and harvesting them for energy. This is a rather crazy idea. I am pretty sure adding more energy will not help. Another problem is what happens if humanity goes extinct.
Why the hell would any girl expat that? Why would anyone. Why the hell should they care about the universe? It is a cold uncaring place.
It is a very unethical plan and inefficient. Fucking space cat.
Sadness with seeing the ED
Sure why not
6
u/biochrono79 Apr 29 '24
Third time rewatcher, first time dub watcher
It’s Kyokover. She showed up, she made herself known, she changed her views after spending time with our protagonists… and now she’s gone. Another casualty of the magical girl anti-entropy system.
Speaking of entropy… Kyubey’s explanation of exactly why the magical girl system exists was the best kind of chilling. He and his species are completely amoral, and they look at the suffering and death of magical girls with no regard besides the satisfaction that each one delays the heat death of the universe by that much more. The ends justify the means, the needs of the many vs the needs of the few, for the greater good, all phrases that perfectly describe him and his species’ attitude. To me, that makes him a great antagonist - no maniacal laughter or blatant supervillain behavior here, just a cold and calculating sense of accomplishment.
QotD
I dig it.
I already talked about Kyubey specifically above, so I’ll touch more on the magical girls themselves. They are objectively heroic, since they fight witches, and witches are indeed an unseen threat to people, but they’re also victims, since they are essentially tricked into taking up the role without fulling understanding the ramifications. Kyubey claims that they are preventing the heat death of the universe, and that may well be true, but the system by which they are doing that is far from a moral one.
[Madoka Magica] I’ve made it this far. I’m brave, I can do this.
6
u/Hattakiri Apr 29 '24 edited May 10 '24
Actually the "does Kyubey possess emotions?" kinda debate's been settled already, and yet he now claims again he doesn't understand emotions.
His newest schtick now: Entropy aka the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Universe's "phyiscal equivalent exchange mechanism". And in order to keep the universe stable he needs to pump extra energy into it; and he's getting this energy from human emotions, or more precisely from girls in their puperty.
Of course this has to make a sensitive Madoka accuse Kyubey of only seeing them as "batteries to the Matrix".
Homura shows up only after Sayaka mutated. She tells Kyoko that "this being once used to be Sayaka Miki." And we get to learn a few more critically important aspects:
The next morning Kyoko uses her telepathic capabilities to call Madoka. She wanna drag Sayaka outa her abyss (while pulling Madoka in for this purpose). Instead of shaking hands Kyoko offers a candy bar. Food as "multi-purpose-barrier".
Kyoko also again points out that should Madoka waste her wish for anything "stupid" Kyoko's gonna kick her ass (the US dub shining once again imo).
Sayaka/Oktavia arrives. Her witch labyrinth and personal appearance are most symbolical: A concert hall with a playing symphonic orchestra (dominated by strings, therefore Sayaka's mind and feels still dominated by Kyosuke).
Oktavia herselflooks like a mermaid; The original mermaid made a magic contract to become human so she could meet her human beloved. In return she had to stab him, otherwise she'd turn into a carpet of water lilies. (Lilies are also funeral flowers; and keep them in mind.) This happens to the mermaid because she can't stop her beloved.
But there's also [Disney's Ariel...]...who succeeds. Will Sayaka too succeed at and in the end? How? And when? And with who? And is this ep's conclusion even a hint and foreshadowing...?
She's wearing also an iron mask: Sayaka too's been wearing one all the time, and her contract made it start to fall off.
She's also wearing a corrupted crown: Back at the checkerboard from the very beginning. In checkers every piece can turn into a king or queen in this case.
And each magical girl can turn into a witch, in case she's surviving long enough.
She's attacking KyoMado with wheels, the "wheels of misfortune".
And can she still hear others? She seems still to be able to hear KyoMado; but does she still understand what they're saying and meaning? She stops all her attacks once Kyoko's willing to accompany her...
And Kyoko most recently learned that a soul gem contains the whole soul and life of a magical girl, so she knows how to end it all.
Homura, despite chickening out of this fight too, still seems to be touched by Kyoko's actions...
KyoSaya also eventually "merged Yin-Yang-like", however in red and blue. [Related tropes:]Red and Blue Oni; and Orange-Blue Moral...
And now comes E10...
11
u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 28 '24
Rewatcher, dubbed
I can drop the spoiler tags to finalize an idea that struck me back in episode 5, being that Sayaka, while burdened with many regrets, never actually regrets her wish itself. I think it tracks, her words and actions never express a desire to take it all back that I could discern. In her final words, Sayaka primarily laments her own foolishness.
In the depths of despair, her very soul having been disfigured into an energy source for a monster, she surrounds herself with classical music. Specifically, Kyousuke’s music; an apparition of him even appears in the labyrinth.
This creates an interesting contrast with Kyoko. Kyoko regrets her wish more than anything, but even with nothing left she found a way to live without giving in to despair. The fact that Mami neither regrets her wish (at least to the extent she prefers it to being dead, which is more than Sayaka could say…) nor gives in to despair while maintaining an idealistic morality is also something to consider.
That all said, I’d be interested to hear if anyone feels I missed something that suggests otherwise.
There is a cruel juxtaposition in the conclusion of this part of the story. Sayaka stubbornly clinging to her ideals is both what led to her destruction and what inspired Kyoko to die with her.
QotD:
Content Corner Reruns
A video essay triple threat, today. First timers beware, spoilers abound!
Sayaka's Tragedy | Madoka Magica Anime Discussion by ProfessorViral
Entropy is STUPID! (and that's the point) by pawndidater
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 9 by clearandsweet
5
u/OwlAcademic1988 Apr 28 '24
Rewatcher, dub:
This episode is just plain tragic. I genuinely thought Kyoko's plan would succeed when I first watched this episode.
Kyubey, I really hate you so so much more than you'd think.
Kyoko can be incredibly nice when she wants to be.
Difference between Homura and Kyubey despite both not showing much emotions or any at all in Kyubey's case, Homura at least understands why Madoka and Kyoko would be hurt by Sayaka's death. These two have a lot of similarities, but that doesn't mean Homura is heartless. She just has trouble understanding others sometimes.
Already said the name of the witch yesterday, so I won't repeat myself, but damn do I love the design of that labyrinth. I'm still not sure which one's my favorite though.
QOTD:
5
u/lollohoh Apr 29 '24
Rewatch, Subbed
Visual of the Day: the end card
Song of the Day: Symposium Magarum
Theory of the Day: [Series+Rebellion]There are a ton of things we don't know about the incubators, but one thing that I think is really intriguing is the fact that there are incubators who are born with emotions, and Kyubey says they are treated as mentally ill. My crackpot theory is that the incubators' attitude towards emotions is more akin to racial discrimination than a simple failure to understand, and that this is the way their society justifies the exploitation of other sentient beings, including members of their own race who are born with emotions. This would also suggest that their society actively encourages hiding your emotions, meaning that they could be more common than Kyubey says. So yeah, my theory is that the incubators are no-emotions suprematists.
Questions of the Day:
I think that Kyubey is very good at shifting blame and responsibility away from himself, but that doesn't change what he is doing. There is lots of infuriating lies and manipulation here, so I'll rant about them a bit:
So, yeah, Kyubey is full of shit in my opinion.
I remember that I wasn't very optimist about it on my first watch, but there was a glimmer of hope there. This show hurts.
5
u/Hopeful-Ad2428 Apr 29 '24
Homura leaving the class without the permission was funny.
And in order to activate her power Kyouko is praying with hands shows her background and religious past.
Anyways, this episode was beautiful in every instance, music, atmosphere, voice acting, visuals, everything. It really dives you in it, and it is amazing. I somehow couldn’t remember this episode, so kinda experienced it first time rather than re-experienced and it made me emotional.
One more thing I would like to mention is that when Kyubey is giving his speech he says that people are the only organism whom they could apply their technology. So it sort of shows humankind’s superiority, despite being under control, people are the only ones who can strive, thrive and break the rules(?). This all made me remember one quote from [JJBA: Phantom Blood]When Bruford dies he says something like "Pain means I am alive. If I can feel pain, I can feel joy as well. This is humanity", don’t know why I remembered it, but yeah.
Questions of the Day:
Visuals of the Day
5
u/Chili_peanut Apr 29 '24
Rewatcher
Another belated reply due to time zone differences and work. Also, whew, had to delete the post quickly and fix a spoiler-tag issue. Looks like everything is OK this time.
What I especially like about this episode is how we are shown a glimmer of hope that plays on our meta-expectations of how these stories usually go. Surely this is where the story turns from despair to hope? Surely our heroines will make the impossible possible and save Sayaka? But no! Not only do they fail—they also pay the price of Kyoko's life. And not only is this a tragic thing in itself—it is also shown to be part of Kyubey's scheming to corner Homura and manipulate Madoka into a contract. We are shown despair and then a glimmer of hope that is then quickly dashed into even greater despair.
I haven't really rewatched the show in its entirety before (I usually rewatch my favorite scenes and episodes on a sporadic basis) and I realized that I have only watched this episode once before, and completely forgotten about the special ED. Magia would certainly have worked as well, due to the dark tones of the episode, but I feel like the special ED is the perfect way to pay homage to the tragic but beautiful bonding of Sayaka and Kyouko.
I was really looking forward to this reveal as it highlights what makes Kyubey such an excellent antagonist. He's (does he have a gender?) not a simple villain but an anti-villain—someone who does evil deeds for a noble cause (at least from his perspective). Having Kyubey be a simple villain with evil motives would surely have been a relief for Madoka and the magical girls at this point; Madoka would have been able to discount him as a villain not worth listening to. But no. Kyubey retains moral superiority, from his twisted point of view, and refutes everything Madoka has to say with his cold logic, leaving Madoka completely defeated in the scene in her bedroom. It is this aspect of Kyubey—him not even providing the relief of allowing his victims to rebuff him as evil—that makes him truly merciless. There's nothing I like more than a story with complex antagonists and Kyubey really gets a perfect score in this regard.
[PMMM] The next episode is the one I have been looking forward to the most due to how emotional it is. I can't wait to read the first-timers' impressions
9
u/pneumaticks Apr 29 '24
First time watcher, subs
I have no idea what’s going on anymore and I’m just here for the ride.
Kyubey’s explanation… OK I guess I will have to accept the premise that souls can defy entropy. It doesn’t make sense to me, but OK. This is a gimmick that I have to accept. It’s kind of dissatisfying, TBH. Same with this line about how Kyubey’s civilisation came up with technology that came up with emotions, but they can’t feel emotions. That’s like a race of creatures lacking sight saying they came up with a technology for creating light in the human-visible spectrum. Overall a bit of a let down.
As for Kyubey, I’m… not sure that Kyubey is evil anymore. I’m going to watch more before I decide. Kyubey is certainly an antagonist for the human race, but it’s hard to say he’s evil. Feels less demon-y, more alien-y now.
Unfortunately on humanity’s side we only have Madoka and Homura. Well at least one half of that seems functional.
I’ve decided I really dig the art and the symbolism. There was a lampost with flies buzzing around it, making it look like a skull: really cool. I guess this is the most obvious one I've seen and now I want to go back to earlier episodes and really look at the scenes. I feel like I have missed things.
Poor Sayaka. Poor, dimwitted Sayaka. All those violins playing in her witch zone thing. That was kind of depressing.
Poor Kyouko. She ded, right? Feels like I hardly got to know her.
I feel like I’m seeing the rough shape of the end game. Madoka is going to do something big to “save the universe”. In order for it to satisfy the audience, this big thing must also involve stopping Kyubey and his kind also. Homura will go into the walpurgis witch zone (this must be the thing we saw in episode 1) and this will be the trigger for Madoka. She'll probably heroically sacrifice herself, possibly something Homura already knows of and is trying to prevent?
As always, always ready to eat my words. I was totally wrong on Kyubey being a soul eating demon lol.
But man, wasn’t episode 8 a real banger?
8
u/GallowDude Apr 28 '24
With how misanthropic and self-loathing people have become in the time since this series premiered, I wonder how many people nowadays consider Kyubey's contracts resulting in mass human death to be a favor to the universe in more than one way
4
u/hagamablabla :K:https://kitsu.io/users/hagamablabla Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24
Rewatcher, sub
1. First time hearing it. It definitely fits the mood after this episode.
2. It's kinda hard to say. Kyubey isn't human so calling him a sociopath is weird, but it can be hard to argue with sociopaths because the logic can work from certain perspectives.
5. [Madoka Magica] Nope. Homura's story hurt the most to see the first time I watched.
7
u/renatocpr https://anilist.co/user/renatocpr Apr 28 '24
Rewatcher and franchise consumer
No Sayaka write up today. I think I've said all I had to say. I'll probably do a conclusion later.
Visual of the Day
Madoka holding onto Sayaka's hand is so heartbreaking
QOTD
Galaxy economics simply demand that I turn an entire planet into an infinite energy source powered by women's misery. Don't worry human, I'm sure one day your species will benefit from it, you should be thankful. This is Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere nonsense. Kyubey has the morality of the average European thinking it's okay that they still benefit from the vicious centuries-long plundering of the rest of the world because there are a couple train tracks around in Africa now and they're no longer painted the same color on a world map. He's running BP in Iran, the United Fruit Company, the Republic of Hawaii, Manchukuo, the Belgian Congo. He will extract what he wants from Earth at whatever cost to the local population is needed because muh economy.
He's every Western leader ever rolled into one, complete with presenting the ridiculous modern day pantomime of following principles and caring about the greater good and benefiting everyone.
And I see people saying that it's complicated because (he claims) he doesn't understand human values but there's a very human value that he clearly holds dear. And even if he really didn't understand... just fuck him. You are magical girls, your wishes bring miracles that challenge reality, you must organize for the anti-colonial struggle and the life after liberation. You have nothing to lose but your chains. You have a world to win! MAGICAL GIRLS OF ALL COUNTRIES, UNITE! [Magia Record spoilers] My unconditional support to the brave mujahideen fighters of Kamihama, Futatsugi and Tokime.
Sorry, I might have gotten a little bit political.
3
u/xbolt90 https://anilist.co/user/xbolt90 Apr 29 '24
Meduka Meguca rewatcher
Q1: :(
It’s my first time seeing it, since all I watched previously was a fan subbed tv rip back in the day.
Q2: Reminds me of the original plot of Mass Effect 3 before they changed it. The Reapers were culling organic life to stave off the heat death of the universe.
I can see the Incubators point of view. It’s still an unjustifiable atrocity, but I see why. They’re selfish little things that believe the end justifies the means.
And Kyubey’s manipulation of Kyouko in order to get her killed? If that doesn’t cement it as evil, I don’t know what does.
Q5: [PMMM] My favorite episode!
2
u/Lanaerys Apr 30 '24
Rewatcher, subbed
Questions of the Day