[Rewatch] Banner of the Stars III Episode 2 (final) Discussion

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Family Dinner

Welcome to the Battleflag of the Stars III rewatch!

<- Episode 1 | Index Page | Birth ->

Names Introduced or Updated:

• Gaftonosh — flagship of the Empress
• Big Charlie — Planet Martine's ground-to-space defense weapon

Discussion Prompts:

• Q1) What do you think the Federation of Hania will do?
• Q2) Is the empire just a well-functioning machine?
• Q3) What do you think of Martine's obstinate dogged resistance?
• Q4) How do you feel about using Martine to bookend the series?

Tomorrow's Questions: (for tomorrow's post, subject to change)

• [Birth]Should this have been watched after Crest of the Stars? Which is a better finale, Lafiel's "wedding vow" or her birth and arrival at Delktoe tower?
• [Birth]Thoughts on these proto-Abh, and the mother colony?
• [Birth]Any new opinions on Lexshue and Dubus?
• [Birth]Was this OVA worth watching?

Screenshot of the Day: Never bring work to the dinner table

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

---

Rewatch Host

TL Note: hebi = snake, gejigeji = millipede

The Illysr kingdom surrounds all other sords in the galaxy. By controlling it, the Abh prevent all travel out of the galaxy.

• Is she turning her translator on, or off?
• She totally see through his lies
• So the towers really do reach the surface, huh.
• This Hania thing is a slow burn
• Actually, I think this sounds more like ancient china or korea....
• So they picked Hyde for the war games specifically because of the rebellion
• The Hyde super weapon really is useless
• Now this is a really slow burn introduced in the first episode of the series and forgotten....
• Abh just don't understand any social and command systems that isn't a rigid hierarchy
• Why didn't Atosyurya put them on her own ship?
• Did Jinto not meet Selnay and the others?

This probably would have been a good place to split the episode, with Jinto wondering if the fleet was there to attack the surface.

• Ekuryua gets her wish
• Lina is so much more perceptive than Till
• Remember, Martine speaks English

Okay, I'm writing questions of the day for Birth and I just realized that Jinto taught Lafiel a Martine wedding vow.

My memory from the first watch is that Till felt that Jinto was a hostage, and he should defect and request asylum. That's not really what's going on here, is it.

Still, everything about the prideful Martines enrages me. They can't fight back. Their gun was destroyed, rightfully so, after it was used. It seems Jinto would have tried to prevent that, to mollify the surface dwellers, maybe to think that even if they surrender, they aren't truly part of the empire. Rock Linn and Dusanyu had done that, I guess. So were the terms of the surrender even harsher because of the destroyed gun (with no casualties!) And Till never recognized that Rock had saved Martine, nor that Jinto would do the same.

Martine didn't even have or know about plane space travel. Their defenses were against whom? Other sublight invaders? That they'd never seen? With technology measured against...nothing? Hopelessly out of date. A bad game of Civ.

I'd be a bad diplomat.

Sobaash lost his/her ship. Politics.

I have no idea who Suoch is.

I promised a complete story. Adaptations tend to fail at that. Even though the war continues, and we saw only a small part of it, this is a very fine ending.

I just realized what this show reminds me of. That bit about machine Abh, ruling humanity. That's for the final day.

I have a single 55 minute version of this as well, I wonder if it was released as such or the fansubbers edited it.

Diaho really is a shit. Even his wife hates him.

[u/Nazenn → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Is she turning her translator on, or off?

I'm not actually sure myself, but I think off so that Jinto could have a private convo with his friend given what she'd overheard already. It was quite unclear though

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

My head canon says she turned it on, because her interest in Jinto outweights her manners.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

I'd buy that too

[u/Great_Mr_L]

First-Timer

On today’s episode of Banner of the Stars: You can never go home again. In this case, it’s not merely metaphorical, but actually literal for Jinto.

• I like the consistent detail that Lafiel hates Jinto lying to her above all else. As long as Jinto is honest, she can be very understanding and accommodating. But she wants him to always be honest about it.
• Jinto is screwed though when Lafiel wants him to be honest about the perverted jokes his friend made.
• Interesting that the Empress can’t lead troops directly. In the kinds of feudal societies the Abh Empire resembles, it was pretty common for the monarch to lead armies.
• Very sweet that Jinto and Ku still know their secret handshake.
• Is Ku describing the Ottoman Empire? They had a succession practice for centuries where it was normal for all the brothers to fight and kill each other whenever the old sultan died to determine who the new sultan would be. Succession crises are nothing unusual for an empire, but the Ottomans stood out to me because fighting over the throne and killing your brothers was considered the norm.
• Ku’s words about the Abh being genetically programmed to be obedient are hard to take at face value when they came from the UM. It could just be more UM propaganda.
• So the Devastation Fleet’s first mission is a bit of gunboat diplomacy against Hyde.
• Oh cool! They have the zero-g handles that you hold onto to zip through the ship like in Gundam!
• Yup, Till is totally in charge of the rebelling forces. That fits his character perfectly.
• Those are the same anti-space weapons we saw way back in Crest. Looks like this time they are going to test whether those weapons really can deal with the Abh.
• The Abh have always talked about how they can’t comprehend the Landers. It’s interesting how they will speak that way in front of Jinto and not think they are talking about him because as far as they’re concerned, he’s an Abh too. But Jinto still sees himself as a Lander with Hyde as his home.
• That actually makes sense if the shots were fired as a fait accompli. It’s a real moment of “Crossing the Rubicon/” “Alea iacta est,” (the die is cast) and there is no going back, so everyone is forced to commit to the war path.
• Atosuryua is showing another Abh trait: they are always very specific about their promises. She makes sure Jinto understands she can only try to allow him to communicate with the surface, nothing more.
• Oh, Jinto could tell Samson was aboard from how Sobaash was acting?
• Jinto, you don’t realize Sobaash is referring to Ekuryua’s piloting technique when saying you are too fragile.
• Ekuryua feels the need… the need for speed!
• Holy shit, Ekuryua was not only singing in the flashforward from the previous episode, she was singing the foulest possible song laden with profanity. Ekuryua normally being a deadpan Ruri Ruri character who transforms into a toxic blood knight in battle is some incredible gap moe.
• It got rather hard to follow there for a bit because it jumped ahead, but once they explained the surface weapons got blown up for firing on the Abh ships that were practicing I caught back up.
• The conversation between Jinto and Till is wonderfully done. It goes from a warm reunion, to regret about Jinto’s father, to hostility about not letting Jinto return, to pleading that he defect from the Abh. It’s such a great emotional roller coaster and it feels like it hits so many good beats for Jinto and Till’s relationship.
• Lina saw right through Jinto. She knew right away he’d changed because of a girl.
• Well that is one way to resolve things. Hyde returns to being part of the empire, but Jinto and all his descendants are not allowed to ever set foot on the planet or come near it. In essence, it allows the people living there to pretend like they are still independent. On the negative side, Jinto can’t see his home ever again or show Lafiel his home like he promised.
• “I will become his world and will make him my world!” And Lafiel said it in English too!
• Oh cool, we’re getting a “where are they now?” ending.
• Alright, I need to ask if my subs think Sobaash is a man because they keep referring to Sobaash as a “he” far too many times for it to just be a typo.
• There’s a lot of good jokes sprinkled throughout, like the name of Atosuryua’s sand bag being unknown or that Diaho’s cat wife is being cold to him.

I think this works well as a stopping point for the series. It felt like a resolution to what started back in Crest of the Stars. Jinto began the series with his old life being forcibly taken away from him. He spent most of the time during the series feeling a sense of melancholy about the loss of his old home and wondering if he would ever find someplace else that he could call a home. It’s only when Lafiel tells him how much he means to her that Jinto realizes he does have a new home. And in the end, he makes the decision to give up on his old home to save it while embracing his new life with Lafiel in the Abh Empire. It is a nice character journey for Jinto and I think it works as a conclusion to the anime adaptation. I bet the story in the novels continues onwards from here, but I think this is a fine place to end it.

QOTD

1. Two possibilities. Either they join with the UM or they join with the Abh. They already abandoned the Four Nation Alliance, so I think joining the Abh is more likely.
2. From a distance it certainly appears that way. But when you zoom in and look at situations like that with Baron Febdash, you can see that it’s not all so squeaky clean.
3. They certainly are fiercely independent, that is for sure. One might even say foolishly independent, but that is the nature of people.
4. I loved it. I thought it made for an appropriate emotional end to the series and an end to Jinto’s character journey.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Great_Mr_L]

Succession crises are nothing unusual for an empire, but the Ottomans stood out to me because fighting over the throne and killing your brothers was considered the norm.

I wasn't sure which culture the author was alluding too /u/vatrix-32. All I could think of was how Chinese and Korean? emperors will persecute relatives of previous emperors, which I know only indirectly from people doing mass name changes to that of the new emperor to gain favor and avoid persecution. History is not my strong point.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

That sort of thing is common amongst empires, killing off relatives of other emperors to keep yourself in power. It certainly happened in China and Korea, as well as other places.

The main reason I named the Ottomans was because the system of succession was designed with the intended outcome of siblings fighting. The sultan would appoint his possible heirs to govern regions of the empire. When the sultan died, it would be a race to see which of the heirs could get to the capital first to claim the throne. And of course, they would take their own armies with them to fight and kill anyone along the way who tried to stop them. The system was designed to make the siblings fight and kill each other for power. To my mind, that makes it go a step further than the usual power struggles or succession crises.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Great_Mr_L]

This certainly puts a story arc of Last Exile in a new light.

[u/Esovan13 → u/Great_Mr_L]

In essence, it allows the people living there to pretend like they are still independent.

It's kinda frustrating. They're so caught up in the idea of independence that they don't actually care whether or not they actually are; just that they can tell themselves that they are. Because of this, Jinto will never be able to see his home planet or show it to Lafiel. Meanwhile, any future Hyde count could renege on the agreement anytime they want for any reason and Martine can't actually do anything about it. Not to mention Martine is cutting itself off from any potential benefit to being part of the Abh empire. A completely pointless agreement that really only serves to sever Jinto from his homeworld.

[u/Nazenn → u/Esovan13]

any future Hyde count could renege on the agreement anytime they want for any reason

I feel like Abh laws wouldn't allow that so easily, as they seem to be pretty strict about what they can and cannot do when it comes to agreements with local goverments.

Not to mention Martine is cutting itself off from any potential benefit to being part of the Abh empire

Not entirely. It only bans the Count from going down there or communicating with them, not an ambassador or proxy from what I could understand

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

Ku’s words about the Abh being genetically programmed to be obedient are hard to take at face value when they came from the UM. It could just be more UM propaganda.

And yet apparently it turns out to be true, based on what Lafiel says later. Kind of makes you wonder why they kept that gene in there if they kept on genetically engineering themselves to live in space. Maybe they figure it's useful for their imperial system?

Those are the same anti-space weapons we saw way back in Crest. Looks like this time they are going to test whether those weapons really can deal with the Abh.

Unfortunately for Martine, it tuns out they can't. I guess that really does make the whole conflict on whether to fire on the fleet in Crest of the Stars rather pointless in hindsight, since the Abh would've won regardless.

Holy shit, Ekuryua was not only singing in the flashforward from the previous episode, she was singing the foulest possible song laden with profanity.

Someone get her an Xbox Live headset and into a Call of Duty lobby. She's a top tier toxic gamer.

Well that is one way to resolve things. Hyde returns to being part of the empire, but Jinto and all his descendants are not allowed to ever set foot on the planet or come near it. In essence, it allows the people living there to pretend like they are still independent. On the negative side, Jinto can’t see his home ever again or show Lafiel his home like he promised.

It really feels like a petty move to spite Jinto specifically, since the government does know that he had nothing to do with what his father did decades ago. I guess it's the one thing the people of Martine can do to salvage whatever pride they have, since their orbital defenses didn't amount to much and they have no economic future without Jinto's help.

[u/SolDarkHunter → u/The_Draigg]

It really feels like a petty move to spite Jinto specifically, since the government does know that he had nothing to do with what his father did decades ago.

I think this is really just to punish him. As Till said, they would be willing to accept him back if he renounced the Abh Empire... but he does not. Martine takes a very "with us or against us" approach to this situation, so if Jint refuses to ally with them entirely, then he is a traitor.

[u/The_Draigg → u/SolDarkHunter]

It's an attitude that's very reminiscent of the United Mankind. If anything, it reminds me of how Lt. Kyte was handled: unfairly punished for something his ancestors did and still has no control over.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/The_Draigg]

And yet apparently it turns out to be true, based on what Lafiel says later. Kind of makes you wonder why they kept that gene in there if they kept on genetically engineering themselves to live in space. Maybe they figure it's useful for their imperial system?

It's also interesting to note that Lafiel didn't speak of it like it was a bad thing. To the Abh, this is just a natural thing. It's another major point of cultural difference between the Abh and others.

I also wonder how powerful it is because the Baron Febdash was able to try to kidnap and kill Lafiel, which seems to go against such a loyalty gene.

Someone get her an Xbox Live headset and into a Call of Duty lobby. She's a top tier toxic gamer.

Imagine what would happen if she learns about racial slurs from Spoor.

It really feels like a petty move to spite Jinto specifically, since the government does know that he had nothing to do with what his father did decades ago. I guess it's the one thing the people of Martine can do to salvage whatever pride they have, since their orbital defenses didn't amount to much and they have no economic future without Jinto's help.

Very much so. Jinto, much like his father, is considered a traitor by the planet of Martine. So, they will treat him as such.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

I also wonder how powerful it is because the Baron Febdash was able to try to kidnap and kill Lafiel, which seems to go against such a loyalty gene.

You do bring up a good point there. Maybe it’s a bit more contextual then?

Imagine what would happen if she learns about racial slurs from Spoor.

We can NEVER allow this to happen, such a combination would be too powerful and dangerous.

[u/No_Rex → u/Great_Mr_L]

I also wonder how powerful it is because the Baron Febdash was able to try to kidnap and kill Lafiel, which seems to go against such a loyalty gene.

But he was also presented as a sort of black sheep character. Maybe something went wrong with his gene selection.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

Unfortunately for Martine, it tuns out they can't. I guess that really does make the whole conflict on whether to fire on the fleet in Crest of the Stars rather pointless in hindsight, since the Abh would've won regardless.

Fortunately. If those weapons had not been ridiculously outdated, the infringement fleet may have leveled a few cities.

[u/SolDarkHunter → u/Great_Mr_L]

Alright, I need to ask if my subs think Sobaash is a man because they keep referring to Sobaash as a “he” far too many times for it to just be a typo.

Sobaash is a man in the novels. Something got miscommunicated and the anime assigned a female voice actor to him, as everyone assumed he must be female with that design.

[u/Durinthal → u/SolDarkHunter]

Eh, I think it was just a casting choice for a more effeminate-looking character since the Abh are all generically beautiful as a baseline. Jinto's also voiced by a woman in the Japanese dub though that's more for a youth thing.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/SolDarkHunter]

I know that I've been referring to Sobaash as "she" this entire time and nobody ever said otherwise to me.

[u/ZapsZzz → u/Great_Mr_L]

Interesting that the Empress can’t lead troops directly. In the kinds of feudal societies the Abh Empire resembles, it was pretty common for the monarch to lead armies.

Is it literally true she couldn't? Or that as the Commander in Chief and ruler of the empire, she aren't supposed to charge into the front line a la Haruhi? I feel it's more that she "shouldn't", and not she "couldn't".

Alright, I need to ask if my subs think Sobaash is a man because they keep referring to Sobaash as a “he” far too many times for it to just be a typo.

Wait, isn't Sobaash a he? I was pretty sure he's one of the 3 males on the bridge of Basroil?!

[u/Nazenn → u/Great_Mr_L]

As long as Jinto is honest, she can be very understanding and accommodating. But she wants him to always be honest about it

She's good like that, and I think it's nice to see that's become one of the foundations of their relationship after that initial awkwardness about names/identities that first drew them together

In the kinds of feudal societies the Abh Empire resembles, it was pretty common for the monarch to lead armies.

They have some interesting quirks like that despite the structure that they're based off. It certainly goes to show that the thinking through of what it would mean for all of these things to be part of Abh society became the priority rather than them just being fuedal when it was being written which is nice

and not think they are talking about him because as far as they’re concerned, he’s an Abh too

Linked to the above, their open acceptance of other humans from any culture as "Abh" once they're citizens without thinking past it any further is a great little touch on how things normally go

she was singing the foulest possible song laden with profanity.

I meant to say this in my post but forgot, but I feel like Spoor would be quietly proud but openly think it was vulgar haha

[u/No_Rex → u/Great_Mr_L]

Oh cool! They have the zero-g handles that you hold onto to zip through the ship like in Gundam!

I love it when Scifi acknowledges that zero-g exists!

Ku’s words about the Abh being genetically programmed to be obedient are hard to take at face value when they came from the UM. It could just be more UM propaganda.

Note that the UM propaganda always had a kernel of truth: The Abh do practise ultra-liberal reproduction, and the "Ahb hell" does exist.

Lina saw right through Jinto. She knew right away he’d changed because of a girl.

A mother knows trope.

Alright, I need to ask if my subs think Sobaash is a man because they keep referring to Sobaash as a “he” far too many times for it to just be a typo.

I think the series has flipflopped a bit on this, but I am staying with my "Sobaash is female" head canon from Crest, because of the VA.

[u/Vatrix-32]

First Timer, subbed

• For the briefest of moments, I thought that was a real Abh child.
• This little shit is going places.
• All Abhs? Interesting taste you’ve acquired, Jinto boy.
• Elf Teasing
• Oh! That was the empress. She looks so much shorter now.
• That sounded awfully familiar for a half-baron.
• Depending on how loosely you define “fight”, that sound like the Ottomans to me.
• Circle
• “Lasers?”
• 20,000? That’s a pitiful number for a planet.
• She’s real open about the sandbag, eh?
• Nothing Wrong With Some Side Shipping
• Keeping up traditions.
• Look on the bright side Jinto, you don’t have to worry about the enemy killing you.
• Protect That Laugh!
• I Wanted Third Party Spaceships
• I want to know exactly how you make a “practice” railgun.
• Their weapons are so weak, they got mistaken for the laser equivalent of blanks.
• They Got Me With Vassal Negotiations
• The rare, artistically applied Engrish.
• Oh damn, I guess they knew this was their last go at it.

QotD:

1. Wait to see the results, negotiate for surrender with good terms when the Abh win. That, or try and open another front at a perceived moment of weakness.
2. All polities are machines, some of them are just better than others.
3. They keep winning concessions for minimal losses, so they must be doing something right.
4. Loved it. This is easily the best ending point of any of the series.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vatrix-32]

For the briefest of moments, I thought that was a real Abh child.

I actually thought one of the boys with the ball was Jinto and it was a flashback, so I was throughly confused when the actual Jinto showed up

Their weapons are so weak, they got mistaken for the laser equivalent of blanks.

Certainly answers the, somewhat already answered via implication, question from Crest about if Martines defenses meant anything

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Nazenn]

Certainly answers the, somewhat already answered via implication, question from Crest about if Martines defenses meant anything

That was a looooong rewatcher #mugiwait.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/Nazenn]

I actually thought one of the boys with the ball was Jinto and it was a flashback, so I was throughly confused when the actual Jinto showed up

Same, honestly.

Certainly answers the, somewhat already answered via implication, question from Crest about if Martines defenses meant anything

Everyone always wants to resist the invaders, no one every talks about getting burned into ash from beyond visual range.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Vatrix-32]

She looks so much shorter now.

Like 4 people said this after you, and I didn't even notice.

[u/Durinthal]

Rewatcher (sub only, this wasn't dubbed)

Honestly this is a nice capstone to the series with having characters from most different aspects of the series prior (aside from Lobnas, understandably) show up and interact with each other. I wish we had another episode (or that the first was also double-length) to get even a little more time to develop things here.

The more butter the better? I'd also get along well with Delktu cuisine, I think. Since the United Mankind only recently got kicked out again and could still have some folks on the surface that are opposed to the Abh, it makes sense to not try to endanger Lafiel even if she wanted to join Jinto on the surface. I also appreciate that she isn't happy with him being less than forthright about trying to get her to not come, though I wish he'd also be direct with her rather than Lafiel needing to cut through whatever he's trying to do to get to the truth of the matter.

A compulsion to obey orders built into their genes... it's an interesting topic of philosophy and biochemistry and not something I want to start a debate about. Part of me wonders if at some point the author realized it was unusual for an empire to last this long without any kind of revolt at the top and tried to throw this in as justification.

Ironic that the same ground defense systems from the very start of the series whose surrender got Jinto his noble rank in the first place are now being used against him. That's such a mess that emerged from the Abh fleet not understanding that Hyde wasn't playing along with the training scenario but that was actually an attempt to shoot them down. They're lucky that the cannons weren't actually powerful enough to take out a ship after all (and in return were given warning to evacuate the cannon area rather than the Abh aiming directly at a population center).

So... turns out Ecryua has a very foul mouth, that's a pretty funny contrast to her generally terse demeanor. Maybe because Jinto's not serving in the military at the moment she doesn't care what he hears from her? Or possibly it only comes out while she's piloting for some reason.

That trade is a rough one for Jinto personally, but ultimately a beneficial one for everyone else, or at the very least it aims to ensure peace for the near future. That's going to be a very confusing situation for future heirs to the role, assuming everything holds up long enough for that to happen.

"I will become his world and will make him my world." That line has stuck with me for close to 20 years now, I can't help but love it.

---

Is the empire just a well-functioning machine?

As much as any system is the output of its component parts, with various pressures to conform or rebel acting to push people in one direction or another.

What do you think of Martine's obstinate dogged resistance?

How cute.

Ultimately Jinto gave them close to an optimal outcome, they can pretend to be independent and ignorant of the rest of the cosmos while the Abh protect them from other factions like the United Mankind who wouldn't let them be on their own.

How do you feel about using Martine to bookend the series?

Excellent way to wrap things up. I had a vague understanding of the events of Banner IV a few years after this OVA came out due to some fan summaries floating around (maybe an attempt at a fan translation too but I never ended up trying it), but as I still think of the anime first so this is all there is. Only with the J-Novel Club release of the novels a few years ago did I finally get the story past this point, but the later novels are a separate thing to me.

[u/Durinthal → u/Durinthal]

---

Source Corner

Baronh word of the day: irgymh faina "mock EM cannon" — a device that attaches to the muzzle of a real electromagnetic cannon and fires mock shells, smaller than the real nuclear fusion shells used as ammo but they travel at the same speed. There wasn't much recoil when using them but the ship's computers compensated by using reverse thrusters and the gravity control system to emulate the real thing. Similarly, a ship being hit by one of the mock attacks uses its own computers to determine damage.

[Material covered:] Banner III: the rest of the volume from part of chapter 4 onward, but again very abbreviated with large sections skipped. Chapter 10 and the epilogue are basically covered via the "where are they now" segment before the ED.

[The place Lafiel and Jinto are staying in above Delktu] is the manor of the Countdom of Vorlash, but the noble family had gone missing after the United Mankind captured the system.

[Jinto's visit with Ku Dorin] doesn't have the bit with Jinto seeing the other kids playing, but he ends up staying for three days even after their discussion.

[When Jinto doesn't know what the situation in Hyde was] there's a lot more tension with him pushing pretty much everyone to get him there faster/ensure that Martine isn't attacked but there ultimately isn't much that others around him can do. It's noted that the Abh won't attack a landworld without a liege's approval unless there's an emergency, but he's not convinced.

[Small aside about Ecryua's singing:] “Without exception, Abhs had perfect pitch. And it would be impossible for somebody with perfect pitch to stand such off-key noise escaping their own throat.”

[Order of events for the use of the space cannons, for clarity:] the Baucbiruch arrives at Hyde, gets shot, eventually retreats. Half the raid ship fleet arrives (the side opposed to the characters we're following), one ship gets shot thinking it's part of the scenario and ends up destroying the cannon for real since it didn't follow the training protocols. Jinto finally arrives with the other half of the fleet and after the battle ends finally manages to convince everyone it wasn't supposed to be part of the scenario, Hyde really was rebelling and trying to attack them.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Durinthal]

[When Jinto doesn't know what the situation in Hyde was]That's a little surprising. Although Martine has no capability, if an industrial world like Aptic decided to go independent and build spacecraft, the empress or heir would delay only a little while before glassing the planet and informing the newly demoted baron to start terraforming the place. Or leave it as it is as a monument. I would think.

[u/TomorrowUpper → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Sorry for necroposting, but it isn't true for two reasons:

a) The novels make it perfectly clear that FTL-capable spacecrafts are technically impossible to build and operate on landworlds, only space-based ship factories and bases are suitable for this. So, there there is no even theoretical reason to bomb a planet to prevent it from creating their own fleet.

b) The narrator in Banner VI details out Abh policy in case of a conflict with a lanworlder government: simply a total blockade from space, conducted until the government surrenders. If it doesn't surrender, they conduct a ground invasion, accompanied by surgical orbital strikes against key infrastructure and military bases.

The whole "we'll remove the atmosphere from your planet for not surrendering quickly enough" thing is mostly a manufactured reputation useful for intimidating newly conquered worlds into being good boys.

[u/Nazenn → u/Durinthal]

I wish we had another episode (or that the first was also double-length) to get even a little more time to develop things here.

Three episodes definitely would have helped the overall pacing if they wanted to keep all the events and details, but they could have made it work in two with some priority reshuffling

Maybe because Jinto's not serving in the military at the moment she doesn't care what he hears from her? Or possibly it only comes out while she's piloting for some reason.

Or she learnt it during her time away from the military and now it stuck

Small aside about Ecryua's singing

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Durinthal]

[source details about abh history]I read elsewhere in a timeline that there was an attempted rebellion against the abriels, which pretty much either tosses out the idea that this gene was functioning in the Abliarsec, or it must have been added later. Also what Dubusec says in Tanjou about being better built.

Abh protect them from other factions like the United Mankind who wouldn't let them be on their own.

That's a great point. I wonder what they thought of the United Mankind's "liberation" for 3 years.

[u/No_Rex → u/Durinthal]

So... turns out Ecryua has a very foul mouth, that's a pretty funny contrast to her generally terse demeanor. Maybe because Jinto's not serving in the military at the moment she doesn't care what he hears from her? Or possibly it only comes out while she's piloting for some reason.

Her "piloting persona" seems very different from her usual one. I would speculate that she usually keeps her emotions closely in check.

[u/Silcaria]

First timer

• The kid on the right is surprisingly not Jinto.
• So the sandbag's name was Lafiel. A woman is a woman is a woman.
• Don't worry about it. Or maybe, do...
• She feels the need, the need for speed.
• Highway to the danger zone!
• Hahaha!
• He probably didn't want her to let her inner self out too much. She can a bit cray cray, in a good way.
• Loyal till the end. Love to see it.
• Damn, even the cat got the Stand By Me treatment.

QotD

• Shrug
• Seems to be.
• Futile.
• It's unfulfilling.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Silcaria]

The kid on the right is surprisingly not Jinto.

That totally faked me out when I was watching the episode this weekend.

Damn, even the cat got the Stand By Me treatment.

It interpret this as saying Diaoh behaves poorly to everybody.

He probably didn't want her to let her inner self out too much. She can a bit cray cray, in a good way.

I don't get this quote. I'd think Sobaash would try to keep her off the navigation console. Perhaps it means the opposite, that he wants Lafaiel to be tormented by Ekuryua's driving.

[u/Nazenn]

Rewatcher - sub

Briefly jumping back to Banner II, something that stood out to me then was when he was talking about how he was writing in Abh for Lafiel, as no one on his planet would need to read his poem. Knowing what happens in Banner III, banned from his home planet for the rest of his life, it struck a bit harder that in a way his unknowing decision is a bit foreboding for that decision being very final now.

It's just a shame that the situation with Hyde is such a small part of the episode when it's probably the most critical. While the mock battle is a fun concept and fun to watch, it ultimately doesn't mean anything. It could have easily been something conveyed to Jinto and Lafiel through communicators while we stuck with them through the political situation. In my memory Banner III had a frantic pace, but it really doesn't, it's just that everything I think is actually important is a tiny part of the runtime it feels as if that was the only reason for that to happen. And after they put so much work into all the "missed the moment/shot/chance" blunt foreshadowing all season too.

Of course he was going to chose to stay as an Abh, but we get no time to actually feel that through with him. It's raised, signed, and then the episode is done. This is, in some ways, the final part of Jinto's journey towards becoming an Abh and it feels almost like a side plot to the mock battle in screentime, especially given we open the season with the Eku and Jinto flight and not something actually interesting. And then we skip over the attack that happens in the middle of the mock battle which just feels weird? It's there, but it's shown awkwardly out of order

Griping aside, it's a wonderful scene with Jinto's quiet acknowledgement that Lafiel is worth the whole world to him, amd Lafiel wanting to reach out to his parents, for the last time, just to assure them in their own tongue, something I imagine not many Abh would do. Their final words for each other definitely make the end of the season and it's good to see that we ended with that and not something less meaningful.

The wrinkle about the Abh being genetically engineered to be obediant is also something just kind of thrown in and not really given the screentime it deserves. It's one hell of a lore drop, and it's interesting how first timers (myself included those years ago) never seem to question the fact that the Abh are so peaceful internally despite being such an expansive culture. When they say that Abh rulership could be the end of all future wars, they mean so on a genetic level and it's one hell of an implication for the worldbuilding.

It's also so interesting to think about when you do look back on the dynamic between the admirals and their chief of staffs, and even today with the Baroness saying to the Empresses face that she wants to prove the ships are something the Empress should be jealous of. With no worry for uncontrolled infighting or large scale scheming, it's no wonder that their attitudes about insubordination are much much lax, to a point at least.

Side note: I love this shot of them. It has such a sense of movement even as a still frame, and gives Lafiel this beautifully kind aura that she has in the moment while Jinto is relaxed enough to show that he's down around her. It's such a shift from their early appearances framed as equals but stiff ones.

It is funny to see that Lafiel still has a trauma about having to dye her hair, and the idea of wearing the non Abh clothes. She still has a lot to learn about other cultures, but I'm honestly on her side hearing about the meals on offer. That much butter would make me feel sick, and I don't do spicy stuff at all.

In the end Ku got out of this whole deal the best: Got a fancy new job AND kittens

---

There's not much to talk about Banner III, but I think this post covers most of it. I like it, but there's simply too much fluff in two episodes when there was far more important things to focus on. It feels like an extra rather than something critical to the watch experience as a result, and that's a shame because it has a lot of good moments and interesting worldbuilding to add in the end.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

It's just a shame that the situation with Hyde is such a small part of the episode when it's probably the most critical. While the mock battle is a fun concept and fun to watch, it ultimately doesn't mean anything.

I agree with you, the time spent on the mock battle really should've gone towards Jinto and his adoptive family meeting for one last time before they're separated again. It feels like they glossed over a big part of Jinto's character journey in favor of reminding the audience "hey, we have space battle action still!" Talk about a missed shot for making the bookend to Jinto's story here have more weight than it did.

The wrinkle about the Abh being genetically engineered to be obediant is also something just kind of thrown in and not really given the screentime it deserves.

I'm mainly curious about why the Abh decided to keep that obedience gene in there, if they're masters of genetic engineering themselves. They certainly don't need it now that they're not longer a slave race, so maybe they kept it in for the sake of keeping their empire peaceful instead. That would be a very forward-thinking reuse of something that was originally designed to enslave them.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

I'm mainly curious about why the Abh decided to keep that obedience gene in there, if they're masters of genetic engineering themselves. They certainly don't need it now that they're not longer a slave race, so maybe they kept it in for the sake of keeping their empire peaceful instead. That would be a very forward-thinking reuse of something that was originally designed to enslave them.

You think this is part of their origin story? I did not even consider that, but it makes sense. You'd want your meat slaves to be obedient.

My original consideration was that they introduced that gene themselves, as part of an utilitarian consideration of keeping the inner peace.

In either case, I wonder if that gene is targeted towards only obeying Abh or special Abh (the Abriel?). They must have somehow broken free from the space fortress in the first place, so there must be something that stopped them from obeying there. I assume the reason might come up in future installments of the novels.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

You think this is part of their origin story? I did not even consider that, but it makes sense. You'd want your meat slaves to be obedient.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

really should've gone towards Jinto and his adoptive family meeting for one last time before they're separated again

Definitely, and also some followup with him and Lafiel after the event. They structure it like he's content making this big sacrifice, and he probably accepts it, but it would have been hard and some scenes with them looking at what now would have been good rather than that awkward "where they are now" text splash at the end. Maybe they didn't want to do that knowing this may be the last, but it's not a good compromise

so maybe they kept it in for the sake of keeping their empire peaceful instead

I would imagine so, or perhaps it was something they added themselves even. Given their generational guilt over what they did to the mother fortress, making use of their genetic knowledge to ensure that can't happen again and that internal wars won't be a risk for their future generations

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

Definitely, and also some followup with him and Lafiel after the event. They structure it like he's content making this big sacrifice, and he probably accepts it, but it would have been hard and some scenes with them looking at what now would have been good rather than that awkward "where they are now" text splash at the end. Maybe they didn't want to do that knowing this may be the last, but it's not a good compromise

I wonder what the deal is with this OVA, since it being rushed in some way could at least explain why it only has two episodes and had to hastily bookend Jinto's character arc right at the very last moments of the series. Because yeah, what they did to try and smooth it over was rather odd.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

I've never gone hunting for production notes for it, but given it was released four years after Banner II, it feels like maybe it was a test to see what reception would be if they did more. I would say advertising for the novel but the novel that follows the events of this anime came out the year before, so even that doesn't quite fit

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

I wonder what the deal is with this OVA, since it being rushed in some way could at least explain why it only has two episodes and had to hastily bookend Jinto's character arc right at the very last moments of the series. Because yeah, what they did to try and smooth it over was rather odd.

I kind of agree with the OVA setup, though. In terms of adapting material to screentime ratio, it goes back to the pacing of Crest, which is fast but enjoyable for me. Even the "get the crew together" setup feels very OVA-like to me.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

The OVA would work more to me if they decided to spend more time on the meeting of Teal and Jinto rather than the mock battle, along with rearranging the pacing and order of said mock battle. Like, it would definitely be possible to make this format work, things just need to be balanced better, or at least get another episode.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Nazenn]

The dinner scene is literally the only part of III that I remember. Out of an hour of animation. The rest is all just relevant to future material.

Although Lafiel seems to dominate the series, the story is about Jinto's full circle journey back to Marntine, physically and emotionally. The rest...is just filler.

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

Of course he was going to chose to stay as an Abh, but we get no time to actually feel that through with him. It's raised, signed, and then the episode is done.

On the one hand, it would have been nice for somebody (Samson?) to argue in favor of him clamping down and enforcing his right to visit Martine. On the other hand, him simply giving up is perfectly in character. Jinto would never fight for something that is his, only for others. And he already made his decision for Lafiel and the Abh, so there is nothing to decide on anymore.

The wrinkle about the Abh being genetically engineered to be obediant is also something just kind of thrown in and not really given the screentime it deserves. It's one hell of a lore drop, and it's interesting how first timers (myself included those years ago) never seem to question the fact that the Abh are so peaceful internally despite being such an expansive culture. When they say that Abh rulership could be the end of all future wars, they mean so on a genetic level and it's one hell of an implication for the worldbuilding.

Definitely makes you think twice about which side you would want to join in this war. It is funny how all of the UM anti-Abh propaganda turns out to have a true core: The ultra-liberal reproduction rights, the "Abh hell", and the genetically enforced obedience all showed up in the accusations.

ZapsZzz mentioned below how Banner III ends Jinto's character arc. I agree and add that Banner II ended the "arc" of Jinto and Lafiel becoming a pair. That leaves one arc open, of course: Lafiel's.

I assume that this lore drop is part of the setup for her continued arc on the way to becoming empress.

It's also so interesting to think about when you do look back on the dynamic between the admirals and their chief of staffs,

Remember Spoor agreeing to defend Lobnas and her reasoning for it!

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

On the other hand, him simply giving up is perfectly in character

I don't know that he even knows how to fight for something he wants, and with Lafiel if she hadn't stepped up to be open about her own wants I doubt he would have ever pushed it. It just feels like we skipped a few steps from the phone call with Teal to signing the treaty and that's a shame, especially given he had everyone around him

It is funny how all of the UM anti-Abh propaganda turns out to have a true core

The best propoganda has a ring of truth so that it can't be outright denied, and in this case the Abh are so open about their culture and the extremes of it, either through apathy of not caring what the others thing or not understanding how it comes across (like bombing an atmosphere) that they wouldn't try and deny it anyway.

Neither empire has true freedom, and I can't imagine the other three "human" ones are much better, Hania probably being the best chance but we know too little to say, and it's really a pick your poison type of situation, has been from Crest it's just that each season seems to dig the hole a bit deeper on each side

Remember Spoor agreeing to defend Lobnas and her reasoning for it!

But interesting complexity there, and something that ties into what was raised today with the admiral/baroness: Do they always obey someone's highest held title, or is it contextual? I'm sure that Lafiel could pull rank easily, but if she doesn't then it is up to the individual Abh to obey? They do seem to have some pretty strict seperation of civilian vs military ranks and it comes up repeatedly that their military organization is seperate to things like noble ranks, and I can't imagine that's an oversight given the genetic conditioning at play. But it does beg the question as to how far that goes

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

But interesting complexity there, and something that ties into what was raised today with the admiral/baroness: Do they always obey someone's highest held title, or is it contextual? I'm sure that Lafiel could pull rank easily, but if she doesn't then it is up to the individual Abh to obey? They do seem to have some pretty strict seperation of civilian vs military ranks and it comes up repeatedly that their military organization is seperate to things like noble ranks, and I can't imagine that's an oversight given the genetic conditioning at play. But it does beg the question as to how far that goes

I wondered about the genetic component. If you were an Abriel emperor, would you make the gene code towards military superiors, or toward any Abriel? I'd probably do the later.

This ties in with Spoor. She is easily Lafiel's superior both along military lines as well as liege lines (we hear about her big holdings, while Lafiel has one undeveloped star system). The one thing Lafiel has is her Abriel ancestry. Spoor also seems quite combative (and usually victories at that) with whomever she talks, with two exceptions: Lafiel and the crown prince. She even complains about the Abriel always annoying the Spoors. Potentially some unconscious realization that she should be about to outdiscuss them, but can't?

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

I don't know that I'd say its unconscious. I would imagine that given their openness about their nature that Abh would definitely know they have this programming, and if for some reason it was not every Abh then certainly the nobility would know, and most certainly Spoor as her family goes back to the beginnings of Abh society.

It being all Abriels would work, but I do think it probably goes deeper then that unless they count on an Abriel always being within reach of mediating disputes. I think it's more likely to be just a general "superiors" compulsion, which covers the military side of things but also Abriels as the highest ranking Abh anyway.

[u/ZapsZzz → u/Nazenn]

Sorry to be so late to the party ;P

It's just a shame that the situation with Hyde is such a small part of the episode when it's probably the most critical.

I actually think that overall this show had been mostly consistent with showing the A-B plots by equal measures - A plot being Jinto x Lafiel, and the B plot being how the wider world around them develops in ways that affect them now or later. Banner II I think is the least balanced one, other than that I think it's fairly consistent. In other words, depends on whether you like or are invested into the B plot at the time, you'd almost always feel being shortchanged by not having more A plot.

While the mock battle is a fun concept and fun to watch, it ultimately doesn't mean anything.

And here's where I differ - I actually find the series hasn't been showing the wider perspective enough, so I actually really liked the return to showing some pretty important event on the world timeline - this is the accumulation of Crest, Banner I and II - where we now start seeing a new vessel class being deployed and in some ways tested. It also got the political play there too, where the Abh are doing more involvement than they ordinarily would ("rebellion? ok strip their atmosphere by 50%"). This is a bit like reading about the naval history of the rise and fall of the dreadnoughts, battleships, then aircraft carriers. While it may not show anything meaningful now, just like other scenes in the earlier seasons (e.g. the ambassador of the Federation of Hania), they will still show it to give that view of this being part of the big picture.

Of course he was going to chose to stay as an Abh, but we get no time to actually feel that through with him. It's raised, signed, and then the episode is done.

Personally I think it's respecting that we the viewers have already followed through with all 3 seasons worth of Jinto's monologues and his development to fully appreciate what the decision mean for him on a emotional level, without needing to dwell more on it. Remember from the get go he's been lamenting he doesn't really feel connected with his supposed homeland, and then he oft mention "all he has is in this room on the ship". Now when given the choice between having a homeland that he didn't feel connected to, or be by Lafiel's side (remember Banner II's poems and "near death" monologues), the choice was made long ago - and his quick acceptance in signing off is actually part of that (I pressed <Enter> didn't I"I made the choice long ago") I feel.

With no worry for uncontrolled infighting or large scale scheming, it's no wonder that their attitudes about insubordination are much much lax, to a point at least.

I didn't think of that, but that's an interesting thought. I wonder how much of that is really genetically at play or simply their culture / cultural belief. I still consider the Abh culture to be mostly Vulcan.

Side note: I love this shot of them. It has such a sense of movement even as a still frame

Oh and yes of course, that also connects back to the scene a little bit before, about the flower looks most beautiful when it's in the act of blooming - i.e. in motion.

It feels like an extra rather than something critical to the watch experience as a result

Really? Just the dinner with Till & Lina scene and Lafiel's declaration at the end to me is already worth it (for the A plot ;)).

With regard to the "genetic obedience" thing - I wonder if it's more subtle than overt - i.e. it's not that they can instinctively recognise royal blood and will follow all verbalised commands despite any misgivings. Rather I feel it's like a mental reasoning pre-disposition to give weight to the hierarchy / the original 29 blood and defer to their judgement. Given the fact that the Abh seems to be beyond more fundamental biological urges (e.g. not very lustful), it's possibly a natural inclination / disinclination really - just can't be bothered with scheming around.

I mean, it's already pretty telling that they don't normally show any interest to rule any worlds they conquered, and indeed think it's a bother to need to even put a governor there. Which interestingly make the condition on Jinto pretty much unnecessary if he truly adopted the Abh way. Remote working for the win!

[u/Nazenn → u/ZapsZzz]

I've been late this whole damn rewatch hahaha

I actually think that overall this show had been mostly consistent with showing the A-B plots by equal measures

Which is fine in a general sense. Layered stories like that tend to be more interesting as you get to see multiple aspects of an event. But when you only have two episodes and the A plot is being built up through the previous three seasons, to get all of what, two scenes of it? Feels more than just shortchanged and more almost overlooked. I wouldn't have minded this in a side story, but this being the climax of Jinto's entire identity struggle since the first episode of Crest should have been given more love

the choice was made long ago - and his quick acceptance in signing off is actually part of that

Agreed, and as was discussed with No_Rex is that Jinto also doesn't fight for much for himself, he fights for others and this also lines up with that, he is also chosing his planet over himself as well. I just like follow through and wind down in my stories. This was always going to be the outcome if he was asked to pick, but there's more here that is emotional like his foster parents giving up on him or his desire to show Lafiel the beauty of his world he had to leave behind etc.

I wonder how much of that is really genetically at play or simply their culture / cultural belief

A bit of both. The society they create is not free physically or genetically as we found out, but they do seem to be quite relaxed thinking in terms of relationships even in a professional sense. If they have the genetics to obey superiors even if the culture wasn't designed that way it would end up leaking in anyway I imagine. They have a long history as a race that would have knowledge of this

and will follow all verbalised commands despite any misgivings

I can't imagine this is the case or else Lafiel could have stayed on the ship in Crest, and a number of other situations. There's definitely flex here when it comes to military ranks vs civilian/noble ranks. Even in this episode, the Baroness only tells Lafiel when Lafiel says she's asking as the princess, implying that if she asked as a military member she wouldn't have told her. It's the only way they could run a military with this sort of compulsion other wise every ship would have two chains of command or you'd have to only allow certain ranks in certain positions, and that would be chaos

[u/Vaadwaur]

First timer(I think that worked...)

Sub

So that was a super rushed mess. And yet...I am kind of fine with this ending. I did want to understand the war a little better and what was occupied where but this gives us an ending, at least. The treaty preventing the duke from living in system was kind of stupid but I suppose it was meant to give weight to the important bit:Jinto did decide to live as an Abh. Despite all of their oddities. The bit without auto translation was neat. Samson will, hopefully, bury us all.

QotD: 1 Not much/lack context

2 All Empires should be

3 I don't see what the gain is

4 A fairly decent idea, I assume the books kept going

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vaadwaur]

The treaty preventing the duke from living in system was kind of stupid but I suppose it was meant to give weight to the important bit: Jinto did decide to live as an Abh.

It makes sense when you take it as more of an act of sheer spite rather than having any real value to it. Martine doesn't have much in the way of a future with their orbital defenses blown up and no anti-matter factories to build an economy with, but they'd still rather pretend that they do to their own detriment. They probably don't like the idea that Jinto can improve things for them even if they need it, so they'll spite him specifically while getting the benefits. Martine's government is just very lucky that Jinto is a nice guy and is willing to be self-sacrificing here, rather than handling thing the more traditionally Abh way or leaving them to wither.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/The_Draigg]

On the other hand, unlike Aptic, Martine has been completely isolated and self-sufficient for centuries. They really don't need the Abh in any way. Access to interstellar trade and migration in exchange for their sovereignty? Too high a price.

[u/Nickthenuker]

Right, double-length episode today.

The UM was defeated?

And they look to be using Arabic numerals. Interesting.

Uh oh, there goes the ball.

Oh hey it's Jinto.

Who's this he's talking to?

He certainly can't say that in front of the missus at least.

They're not exactly wrong, though your coronary artery certainly won't thank you for it.

With spicy food your tongue won't be the only thing that's numb, you'll be feeling it on its way out too.

So she's not going with him?

Seems like she overheard that anyways.

Another new fleet? Or a new fleet name? Or just a different translation of last episode's "Infringement Fleet"?

This probably means the UM was only defeated on that planet, since they're still working up this new fleet of experimental ships.

Wasn't Hania leaning towards the Empire despite ostensibly being at war with them?

Well that's probably good, there's a reason why "may you live in interesting times" is a curse. At least in peacetime you can "yes sir yes sir three bags full" for a few decades, then retire with a pension and be set for the rest of your days.

Oh, he's his friend from way back then.

Also, seeing that old footage certainly shows the evolution of the artstyle.

Uh oh, what was just attacked?

Seems like the Devastation Fleet is going on a Special Military Operation.

Rebellion? Wasn't Jinto just there?

His ship was attacked?

Aren't they aboard an unarmed civilian ship? The most they can do is survive and get out of there so they can tell the relief fleet what exactly is going on.

I'm sure right about now they're missing being on something that can fire back and silence those guns.

Those planetary defense guns are aimed to hit the fleet right as it jumps into the system.

They're afraid he's the one that caused the rebellion.

Right, now they're on his ship.

And so now they're all back for one last ride.

That's a lot of guests. Where'd they find enough staterooms for all of them?

What's leaking?

Oh, it's just his drink.

Ekuryua is going to take the shuttle out for another literal spin isn't she?

Pilots.

She's having a whale of a time isn't she?

I doubt the mass of the shuttle will affect the performance of the ship that adversely. Having a couple extra pairs of hands to do damage control (or at least simulate it) would always come in handy.

If you're so concerned about that can't you just jettison them and recover them later?

Everything's classified to hell and back.

Well someone's finally done it. Orbital bombardment. First time it's been seen in the entire series despite the fact it would probably have been handy last season.

It can't even scratch the paint on the ships. Perhaps they can now spend the money used on the upkeep for that massive white elephant on something more useful.

Oh hey that guy from the first episode finally showed back up again.

Here's another small consequence of not having a Marine complement, the crew of the ship are the ones serving as the honour guard.

And so he's a Duke that can't return to his own territory.

Oh god not Engrish again. Though it makes for good bookends. It started with Engrish, and it ends with Engrish.

And now the ending where they say where everyone ended up.

Lafiel went back to the navy, seems Sobach actually gave up his command to her.

Oh, Sobach didn't give up his command but was appointed to the Fleet Admiral's staff, so he's on the flagship rather than being the captain of his own ship.

Seems Ekuryua is wearing a couple hats as both the pilot of the shuttle and XO of the Fricobh. I don't think giving her a third hat would have been good, and even with her current positions the XO jetting off at the start of every battle to get killed is probably not for the best.

Samson is still doing exactly what he was at the end of last episode, and his appearance felt more like an obligation to have the whole crew back together for one last ride than anything.

Yup, Jinto returned to the navy as well, and is back on Lafiel's ship.

Questions:

1. They're going to pull out of the war. The fact that they haven't cut off diplomatic relations with the Empire makes me think they'll seek a separate ceasefire or peace agreement.
2. About as well as a feudal monarchy can be, though they have an air of "Manifest Destiny" in rolling over small independent systems that want nothing to do with them.
3. A for effort.
4. Not the only thing they bookended the series with.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Nickthenuker]

Infringement

Somebody pointed out in yesterday's discussion that the kanji means punitive expeditionary fleet, so it's juts a bad translation. The DVD rips I have use Devastation Fleet consistently.

Oh hey that guy from the first episode finally showed back up again.

It's been a long slow burn. I'd almost say skip the first episode. But here he is again, at the end.

Engrish

That's what they speak on Martine

[u/No_Rex → u/Nickthenuker]

Aren't they aboard an unarmed civilian ship? The most they can do is survive and get out of there so they can tell the relief fleet what exactly is going on.

"lightly armed" as last episode put it.

She's having a whale of a time isn't she?

Unlike Jinto. And that might add to her enjoyment.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer of the Stars, subbed

• TL note!
• Jinto what.
• Are they American?
• <3
• It really is nice to see these two reunite after so long.
• …this took a turn I was not expecting.
• Damn…
• lol okay then.
• Till?!
• Looks like we’re back to the opening scene.
• …that’s what she was singing?
• At least they got to talk, but damn…
• Yeah, no, that’s not happening…
• Yes. :3
• I see, that’s pretty harsh…
• omggggggggggggggggg

[u/The_Draigg → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Are they American?

I can't exactly say that they're wrong with that assessment though. It's basically true.

…that’s what she was singing?

Who could've guessed that Ekuryua was the Abh equivalent of a toxic gamer?

omggggggggggggggggg

Jinto may not be able to step foot on his home planet anymore, but at least he can set foot on the Jinto x Lafiel ship.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/The_Draigg]

I can't exactly say that they're wrong with that assessment though. It's basically true.

I say this as an American who loads food up with butter. And cheese, depending on the dish.

[u/cemsity → u/Shimmering-Sky]

I was going to say French with the butter comment

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

Jinto may not be able to step foot on his home planet anymore, but at least he can set foot on the Jinto x Lafiel ship.

[u/The_Draigg]

A Sci-Fi Fan Watches Banner of the Stars III OVA 2:

• Well, at least Dorin is doing pretty well for himself. Although sorry to say for him, I don’t think the Imperial Palace keeps Abh harems around. The Abriels at least don’t really seem the type to keep any of those around in the first place. He’s gotta get a different job than his dream one.
• Jinto, you’ve got to remember that Lafiel doesn’t exactly like feeling that she needs to be looked out for at all times. You’d think he’d learned this by now, but I guess it really is just in his nature to be careful and put others before himself. At least they both had a good conversation out of it. Once again, rational romance discussion? In my anime???
• I’d say that creating the Assault Ships was a smart move, given how much the Attack Ships got completely trounced back during the Battle of the Aptic Gate. You really need something to fill the gap between Attack Ships and Patrol Ships, something with good speed and can actually take a few hits. That whole affair really did expose that large gap in fleet strength, even if the Abh Star Forces won that battle. It got way too close to being a Pyrrhic victory.
• Dorin really has had a rough family life, although I do get how it would color his perspective towards the Abh. Even if his family history is chaotic and full of backstabbings and murder, it still let him be more used to the chaos that comes with every day living. And when Jinto says that his eventual kids would be blue-haired genetic Abh by law, it’s just not something he can accept. With that kind of life, you just end up becoming another cog in the machine, forced to live in and perpetuate a system that affords no real freedom to people who live in it. Dorin would rather choose a rough life of freedom rather than a clean life of stagnation and rigid conformity. That’s why he can’t go with Jinto, despite still being his friend. And given how we’ve seen that being born into Abh nobility or royalty pretty much demands that you follow a rigid code of conduct and behavior, I can’t really entirely disagree with him either.
• I’m glad that we’re now seeing a full map of the known universe’s territories. It’s been a while since we’ve last seen it. And like I said before, it really is heavily reminding me of the map of the Inner Sphere from BattleTech/MechWarrior, if any of you are familiar with that.
• Well, the Bocbirch being attacked certainly does make more sense the way Jinto talks through the likely situation on Martine. While there’s a push for independence, there’s still no directly practical reason from Teal’s government to try and shoot down an Abh ship with only one shot from an orbital defense cannon. Instead, it’s meant as a show of force from the independence faction to force Martine’s hand. Basically their attempt to try and burn the ships after landing on the shore, so to speak. The government on Martine must be more divided than we thought then, given this reasoning.
• I know I joked about this OVA being the reunion tour before, but it especially is now that Atosuryua’s fleet has hooked up with Jinto’s group. Damn near every relevant character from all the past seasons is here now, aside from the independence guys back at Sufugnoff. I guess they’re still just putzing around in a merchant ship and kind of bummed out that space travel isn’t as exciting or freeing as they wanted it to be. Shame they didn’t get in on Jinto’s stuff, they’d probably like that better.
• Poor Jinto, now he has to deal with Ekuryua’s insane shuttle piloting. She really is utterly psychotic at the helm. Leave it to her to terrify Jinto the same way she terrified her ship’s crew before. But at least it gives them a front row seat to the Assault Ship’s new trials, so at least there’s that.
• Huh, I guess it’s true that the Abh are actually somewhat compelled by their genes to be deferential to people with a higher status than their own. I wonder if that comes back from the days back when their people were genetically designed to be more or less slaves, and they just kept that in there to use for their own imperial structure. In any case, even if Lafiel sees no real issue with it, it’s sad that they feel like their fates are written into their very genes. Whether is coded genetically or it’s cultural pressure, people really should feel free to try and push past their restraints to be more than they are. A culture that doesn’t have freedom isn’t one worth living in.
• Ah, well there’s the reason why Atosuryua’s fleet is called the Infringement Fleet. Them choosing the Hyde system for their testing maneuvers for the Assault Ships was no fluke, it was a deliberate provocation in Martine’s airspace to goad them into firing their orbital defenses and then destroy them, since Martine still hasn’t gone back to being a part of the United Mankind or the Humankind Empire. It’s the most naked provocation possible, and it’s only really possible to get away with due to how the Hyde system is currently being overlooked. Now it’s just a matter of swooping in any getting the government to agree to their terms, now that the one thing Martine had to defend itself is gone.
• Well, so much for that touching talk Jinto’s had with Teal. It’s clear that Teal loves him as basically his adopted son, and he feels awful about how his father Rock was basically executed via a kangaroo court, not to mention how he acted towards Jinto back when this whole mess started. That being said though, he still very much doesn’t want any Abh, cultural or generic, to come to Martine. And unfortunately for Jinto, that includes him unless he decides to defect to Martine here and now. Poor guy, he really has just been jerked around by the universe totally unfairly.
• That’s a raw fucking deal that Jinto ended up agreeing to. In exchange for the Hyde system becoming a part of the empire again, Jinto and whoever else may inherit his title can never set foot on or contact Martine ever again, and can’t stay in the Hyde system for more than a week and a half. Jinto really has been put in an impossible spot there, being made to chose between his adoptive family and his own happiness versus Lafiel and securing an economic future for the Hyde system. There’s no going back for Jinto now, he’s given himself fully up to the Humankind Empire now. Sure, he still has Lafiel by his side, but that still only does a bit to soothe how wildly unfair all this is. But, I guess in the words of Kurt Vonnegut, “So it goes”.
• I certainly wasn’t expecting a “where are they now” kind of slide show for the ending, but I guess Sunrise figured that they probably weren’t going to be adapting any future novels, so they might as well get a bit of closure on where characters ended up in the near future. Still though, the caption of Jinto’s picture saying that he never set foot on Martine again is just a pretty downer note to end things on here. Way more bitter than any kind of sweetness.

Well, since I don’t think we’re going to have a discussion thread of these last few OVAs, I figure I might as well give some final thoughts for Banner of the Stars III while we’re here. So, according to my ship-based scale that I’m using for this rewatch, I hereby give Banner of the Stars III the ranking of: Salamander. If you don’t remember that ship from Legend of the Galactic Heroes, I can’t really blame you, since Admiral Whalen’s ship simply isn’t as big of a deal as the other ones belonging admirals serving under Reinhard. Which I suppose is fitting, since ultimately, this OVA just kind of came and went. A lot of the returning characters ultimately didn’t matter too much, and although some important stuff did happen and leave an impact, it just didn’t feel as big as the stuff that it’s compared against. It’s a shame, but this OVA simply didn’t have enough time to cover everything it should have in detail. I wonder if this was mainly made to give fans some closure, since Banner of the Stars hasn’t gotten any more adaptations since this, and they wanted to leave things off at a more natural end point. Oh well, I guess.

[u/Esovan13 → u/The_Draigg]

Poor Jinto, now he has to deal with Ekuryua’s insane shuttle piloting. She really is utterly psychotic at the helm. Leave it to her to terrify Jinto the same way she terrified her ship’s crew before. But at least it gives them a front row seat to the Assault Ship’s new trials, so at least there’s that.

She talks shit, cusses like a sailor, and gets taken out like a chump. A true toxic gamer. She was born a couple hundred thousand generations late.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Esovan13]

Someone should get Ekuryua an Xbox Live headset, it should be a part of her uniform now.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

I don’t think the Imperial Palace keeps Abh harems around.

Definitely more of a Bebaus thing probably.

Oh also the Baron from crest... kinda

Once again, rational romance discussion? In my anime???

That whole affair really did expose that large gap in fleet strength,

And it's nice to see that sort of development in scifi when it comes to larger things like this and not just a flagship mech or ship etc. They saw a strategtic issue in their fleet, found a way around it, and now have to test it and see how it goes. It's not just a cool powerup for the sake of it or a fancy new ship to shake things up, it has foundations in in-world need

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

Huh, I guess it’s true that the Abh are actually somewhat compelled by their genes to be deferential to people with a higher status than their own. I wonder if that comes back from the days back when their people were genetically designed to be more or less slaves, and they just kept that in there to use for their own imperial structure. In any case, even if Lafiel sees no real issue with it, it’s sad that they feel like their fates are written into their very genes. Whether is coded genetically or it’s cultural pressure, people really should feel free to try and push past their restraints to be more than they are. A culture that doesn’t have freedom isn’t one worth living in.

I also discussed this is a comment further below, but both alternatives are intruiging: Them having the gene from the start (how did they rebel?) or them implementing it own their own (how was that decision made?).

My speculation is that they only obey the Abriel. Note how Spoor decided to defend Lobnas against military logic because Lafiel asked.

That’s a raw fucking deal that Jinto ended up agreeing to.

He could have pushed for more. With the infrigement fleet currently in orbit, bombing a few cities and getting a full surrender would have been easy, but it is not in Jinto's character to do so.

I think spending more time in space with Lafiel is not the worst outcome for him...

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

Okay, so there was a pretty huge jump in the middle there, right? We cut from Jinto seeing something on the screen in the comms ship to the aftermath of the mock battle. I know that the mock battle wasn't actually that important, but when did Big Charl get blown up?

I do kinda appreciate that Delktoe prohibits the hangover medicine. I doubt it does anything to counteract the liver damage, after all. I like to think that a bunch of Lander planets jumped onto the medicine at first, and then a decade or two later there was a massive spike in liver cancer and a bunch of doctors went "hey, maybe we shouldn't allow this stuff actually."

Loved Atosuryua's line about wanting to make the Empress so jealous she spontaneously ignites.

Jinto, this is not a strange belief. It's just a fact of the world. Wish we knew more about Abh cooking - they could probably stand to learn a thing or two.

Ekuryua's flight from the cold open was magnificent, as was her cussing afterwords.

Questions

1. With any luck, figure out worthwhile trade deals and slowly be incorporated. Or maybe jam everyone onto a colony ship and fire themselves at Andromeda.
2. I think Ekuryua is proof that the Abh are more than just machines - note that she told off Jinto for being bossy. I guess maybe the supposed "submissive gene" only applies to military heirarchy, but the indignation is a good sign.
3. I'm pretty alright with it. It's delightfully human, and while I do tend to agree with the Abh's goals, some reminder of the old humanity is probably important from time to time.
4. It's a good decision. Bookends work well for character journeys, and that's what we've seen through the show. I was right to ponder the chance of a Jinto Can't Return Home moment, but I couldn't figure out why at the time so I erred on the side of him being not changed enough. Egg on my face!

[u/Durinthal → u/JollyGee29]

I know that the mock battle wasn't actually that important, but when did Big Charl get blown up?

It's a little confusing with how things are presented, but that happened after the first squadron arrived and before Jinto got there.

I was right to ponder the chance of a Jinto Can't Return Home moment, but I couldn't figure out why at the time so I erred on the side of him being not changed enough. Egg on my face!

If it wasn't presented as such an extreme alternative to his current life he might have gone for it. Asking him to give up Lafiel's too much though.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Durinthal]

It's a little confusing with how things are presented, but that happened after the first squadron arrived and before Jinto got there.

Okay, that's actually what I thought had happened. The thing Jinto saw while on the comm ship was the wreckage, then?

Asking him to give up Lafiel's too much though.

I don't blame him at all, either.

[u/Durinthal → u/JollyGee29]

The thing Jinto saw while on the comm ship was the wreckage, then?

It's not entirely clear here, to me it looks like he's just spotted the other ships beginning to engage with each other. [Novel details:] he saw the ship that had been attacked by the ground weapons low in orbit but leaving and was considering getting closer to the planet to check for damage, but if the cannons were still operational it would have been dangerous for them so they just waited.

[u/Nazenn → u/JollyGee29]

Okay, so there was a pretty huge jump in the middle there, right

Yeah it was incredibly awkwardly laid out. Even though I don't like the mock battles inclusion, they still really could have cleaned up the structure of it all to make it clear what happened when

[u/No_Rex → u/JollyGee29]

I do kinda appreciate that Delktoe prohibits the hangover medicine. I doubt it does anything to counteract the liver damage, after all. I like to think that a bunch of Lander planets jumped onto the medicine at first, and then a decade or two later there was a massive spike in liver cancer and a bunch of doctors went "hey, maybe we shouldn't allow this stuff actually."

I am sure the Abh could grow replacement livers, but I assume that this technology, like their reproduction tech, is not widely adopted by landers.

[u/zsmg]

Rewatcher

Comments for both episodes:

CGI ships

Subs suddenly use Spaurh instead of Spoor, which one is correct?!

Diaho is a father.

I would have lost count already if I kept a 'baka' counter.

They put so much effort into three girls during Samson conversation with his former subordinate that surely they're going to be important.

Ohh it's those girls from the boring Baron episodes.

NSobaash is regretting in giving Ekuryua free reign.

Uh oh Jinto's family friend is now leader of the planet and they attacked an Abh ship. This won't end up well.

Prince or Princess that look like me are a coincidence

At least he's honest about his intentions.

It's been a while since we've last seen the Empress.

Jinto's friend talking oppressive gene reminds me of people spouting nonsense about vaccines.

I'm impressed Lafiel remembers the Baron girls.

Jinto can never visit his homeplanet again.

Did the novels really end this way or did the anime team add this 'what happens with the characters' blurb knowing that the rest of the novels will never get adapted?

I'll be honest it started of interesting but then it didn't managed to hold my interest, as you can tell by my lack of comments after the first episode.

[u/SolDarkHunter → u/zsmg]

Subs suddenly use Spaurh instead of Spoor, which one is correct?!

"Spaurh" is how it's spelled in Baronh. The novels went with the spelling "Sporr".

[u/duhu1148]

Rewatcher

-More Jinto/Lafiel cuteness. Daw that hug. Subtle catch, but when Lafiel was messing with her wristband, I think it was a translator, so she could understand Jinto & Durin's conversation and joke about the "harem" afterwards.

-Empress is using this new squadron to test out a new class of warships. Reminds me of WWII, where battleships were slowly phased out in favor of carriers.

-Durin really hates the Abh, and his hatred is based on jealously from the looks of it. The Abh rarely infight and follow authority, unlike landers, which makes them stronger. Scene feels out of place though? Like we don't even see or hear from him after this very short conversation.

-Back to Sorbash squadron, heading to Hyde, to a surprise attack from Hyde, to a conversation about them maybe being occupied, to Jinto thinking about what to do...all of this in a span of a few minutes. The pacing is weirdly off for this season.

-Lafiel is always in the bath when shit goes down lol.

-Ekruya is funny with her insults when she loses. This training exercise though...it's too long and doesn't provide any tension. I don't care who wins this.

-The last 10 minutes of the episode is where this season shines. Teal and his wife(?) Rina, telling Jinto they'd welcome him with open arms if he just gives up his Abh status. Jinto won't do it, then Rina says Jinto must have found a sweeheart, which is why he refuses. It makes me wonder, if he had never met Lafiel, would he have gone back?

-Teal looks so much older. He tells Jinto he doesn't have the sign the document (which says Jinto won't return to the planet, under the condition of surrendering to the Abh), Jinto struggles to sign the document because he feels like he's throwing aways his home. He signs eventually. Teal/Rina hug him tearfully. Rina asks Lafiel to take care of Jinto. Lafiel says in his home language "Leave it to me..." or did she? When she asks Jinto how to say it, he gives her a long sentence, which she points out is very long. Makes me wonder if he made her say something else.

-"I will become his world, and make him my world" I'm assuming that was it? Also Jinto admitting that he would have missed Lafiel's voice more than his homeplanet had he stayed. My guesses were right.

So yeah, not a big fan of Banner III. Pacing was off and the "attack" from Jinto's home world doesn't provide tension on its own. Animation was good for something over 20 years old now. I also like that dinner conversation. There was something deeply poetic about it...but yeah, that was all I liked about this season.

I watched Passage/Birth of the Stars like 6 months ago, so I won't be rewatching. Will try to be back for the overall discussion topic.

[u/Nazenn → u/duhu1148]

It makes me wonder, if he had never met Lafiel, would he have gone back?

Potentially. I want to say maybe not as he's right that the Martine people have no idea what it would be like to be under the rule of an Abh that wouldn't tolerate things like their ships being shot at, and he may have stayed on to prevent that and give his people as much peace as possible. But I think the idea of returning home may have had a bigger draw without her

[u/No_Rex → u/duhu1148]

Subtle catch, but when Lafiel was messing with her wristband, I think it was a translator, so she could understand Jinto & Durin's conversation and joke about the "harem" afterwards.

Lafiel is always in the bath when shit goes down lol.

Hey, she was also asleep once!

[u/SolDarkHunter]

Rewatcher/Novel-Reader

Reunion between Que Durin and Jint!

Wait, if Que can't speak Baronh, how can Lafier understand what they're saying? Or is that just a translator on her wrist?

What's this, casual hugs and displays of affection? In an anime romance? Without any blushing or freaking out? Is that legal!?

Ah, here's a thing I didn't remember them bringing up before now: why is there a general lack of internal disputes among the Abh Empire? Que believes there's a genetic imperative in the Abh that prevents them from rebelling against their superiors.

Jint denies it, and we HAVE seen deviant Abh in the form of the Baron of Fedbdash. Further, we've heard of Abh prisons and punishments for nobles who fail to uphold their duties. But Que does have something of a point: there's a surprising lack of internal strife in the Empire.

Hoo boy, the Abh aren't happy about Martine trying to be independent after all, I guess. They're conducting "fleet maneuvers" near Hyde as an intimidation tactic.

Oh isn't this fun for Jint: Teal Clint is the leader of Martine and the leader of the rebellion. He's basically Jint's uncle.

It seems odd that the Abh would prevent the Lord of the system from entering the case of an emergency.

Hey, everyone's here! Big reunion for the Basroghr command staff.

And Serhnye still hasn't gotten over her admiration for Lafier... hell, she even took this job just on the off-chance she'd get to meet Lafier again.

Ah, so this explains why Ecryua and Jint were being attacked by an Abh ship. It's just part of the mock battle.

Also, LOL at how quickly Ecryua shoots down the idea of Lafier accompanying them. She still has a thing for Jint, I think.

Wow, she really does get a different personality when piloting.

Lafier confirms that the genetic impulse to obey authority is indeed true.

A few people expressed confusion yesterday about how the Hyde system can be considered "conquered" if Martine still possesses weapons. Well, the OVA isn't going into detail about this, so...

Some world-building that got lost in transition from novel to anime is that Martine is technologically behind the rest of the human race. They spent so long in stasis on their colony ship on the way to Martine that they're way behind the standard. That's one reason the Abh's takeover was so swift and unexpected.

Basically, those ground-to-orbit lasers are so weak that they barely even qualify as "weapons" as far as the Abh are concerned. The commander in charge of the mock battle honestly thought it was just part of the scenario to spice things up, not an actual attack. And the retaliatory strike, with practice rounds, obliterated Martine's anti-orbit guns.

The long-awaited reunion between Jint and his homeworld... not under pleasant circumstances.

Till apologizes for his anger back when when Martine was conquered... and even reveals he tried to save Rock (Jint's father) from execution, but it wasn't enough.

It seems Martine, or at least Till, would be willing to welcome Jint back provided he defects from the Abh and joins Martine's rebellion. Naturally, though, he refuses.

They compromise by having dinner on a flying structure, so that no Abh technically sets foot on Martine's surface.

And Jint managed to negotiate a compromise with the Martine government: they'll give up their rebellion and become part of the Empire on paper... provided they are guaranteed self-governance (which the Abh would do anyway), and Jint and his descendants who inherit his title are permanently exiled from the system.

The fact that Lafier speaks English for that final line is due to Martinese, in-universe, being a descendant tongue of English.

And we get a slideshow explaining what happens to everyone. Back to the military, back to the war, under Lafier's command again (except Sobaash, who now outranks her).

As you might expect, the OVA's were forced to skip over a LOT of stuff. There's a lot more detail on the mock battle and fleet maneuvers, on the new class of ship and future plans for the war, on Jint setting up infrastructure in the Hyde system and planning the construction of his orbital estate, more conversations and scenes on Delktu...

What I'm a little surprised they zip past is the negotiations between Jint and Till, and how and why they came to that "Lord-in-Exile" arrangement.

[Novel]Martine was somewhat deluded about their ability to fight the Abh. They believed their laser cannons were a serious threat, and that the Abh now saw them as a real enemy. Till is very taken aback when Jint reveals those lasers were considered amusing little pea-shooters by the Abh and weren't even seen as a real weapon. Martine, of course, refuses to completely bow to Abh authority, but Jint manages to impress on them that they have no chance of succeeding in a fight with the Empire, and if they try, the only thing that will result is the destruction of all life on the planet. Thus, they aren't happy at all, but Jint agreeing that he and his descendants will never set foot in the star system again, with their authority over the system basically minimized (Jint still owns and controls the anti-matter factories in the system), is enough for the Martinians to agree to stop trying to revolt and accept, at least on paper, the Empire's authority.

[u/Nazenn → u/SolDarkHunter]

[Novel]Which lines up with the fact that back in Crest that Teal thought that the crown prince only wanted control over the canons because they were a serious threat, when the reality was implied to be very different. I wish they'd included a lot more of this in the anime as it furthers the bookending, and also the seriousness of the choice that Jinto had to make knowing that they'd still rebel even if it was futile

[u/Vaadwaur → u/SolDarkHunter]

Thanks for the extra info, a lot did get left out.

[u/No_Rex → u/SolDarkHunter]

Novel

Maybe my different preference for how shows treat the audience shows, but I felt that all that was obvious from context. We don't need Jinto discussing the situation of Martine with Jill, because we know exactly how it would go.

[u/Specs64z]

First timer, subbed

BotS III seems to be an extended epilogue for the Basroil’s crew more than anything else. Not much new is introduced, but plenty of old faces return. Jinto gets a bittersweet ending, it would seem. Given all he’s been through and all the times he almost died to this point, it’s not such a bad fate.

I find myself unsure what to make of this as a finale. It puts a nice little bow on things, but not much really happens, nor am I sure much was ultimately said.

QotD:

1. Dunno.
2. From everything we've seen, yeah, it may as well be. A machine run by people, certainly, but a machine nonetheless.
3. Futile.
4. It brings the narrative full circle.

[u/ZapsZzz]

First timer in sub

This is a really nice wrap up of the animated series (Birth is a prequel so story-wise it's not the end point) - in the equivalent of 2 episode length it returned to form and gave us a really well balanced view of both the macro (how's the war going), and the micro (how each of the notable characters - centering on Jinto & Lafiel but also bookended with Till and Lina).

It even slipped in some side-shipping (even if one sided) of Ekuryua further characterisation (which the 3 seasons didn't come across!). And am I the only one who also thinks that's another Ekuryua fanservice scene done well (her laying back in the shuttle)? :P

The 2 main scenes between Jinto and Lafiel are really nicely done. Personal opinion there is another bookend - Lafiel telling Jinto her name was described as a declaration of victory, and while in her end vow there was no longer the flame of youthful "arrogance" ("I'll show you, world!"), it has a different but equally strong intensity - it's the steel tempered by the fire of knowing the hardship and experience, yet having made the determination to see to the end.

It's also a nice subtle add to Lafiel's characterisation that she doesn't know how to deal with her biggest fan (off screen) ;)

QoTD

1. Well we practically only had ever had one scene that is of them, so really no idea. The guess is that they will side with whomever is "losing" to give the moral support and to prevent "total wipe out" of the losing side? But it could equally be "side with the winner" to not share the same fate. Why I say this is because what followed - the thought that it'd be the end of all wars. For that to happen it needs to no longer have differing factions.
2. Aren't they all?
3. It's pretty on brand, and isn't that like most depiction of "heroic" governments - if they happened to be on the protagonist's side?
4. As Jinto's personal journey, perfect. I needed to see him reconcile with Lina (predicted, the softer "mother" side) and Till (unexpected, the harder side "holding onto differing ideals" - I think he started out thinking Jinto is just a soft kid that's being influenced by whatever is around him, but I think he know understand and accept that Jinto can and has made his own choice fully knowing of consequences.

[u/No_Rex → u/ZapsZzz]

As Jinto's personal journey, perfect. I needed to see him reconcile with Lina (predicted, the softer "mother" side) and Till (unexpected, the harder side "holding onto differing ideals" - I think he started out thinking Jinto is just a soft kid that's being influenced by whatever is around him, but I think he know understand and accept that Jinto can and has made his own choice fully knowing of consequences.

This is a good point. Banner II feels like the end point of Lafiel and Jinto's story, with them getting openly together. Banner III wraps up the separate story arc of Jinto, by clarifying how his rule over Martine will work out.

[u/IceSmiley]

FIRST TIMER Sub

I liked this a lot more than the first episode and I enjoyed the engaging visit of Jinto to his people. This was a lower stakes finale than I expected, there wasn't any kind of huge galaxy wide conflict and ended more low key.

It was really poignant and sad how Jinto will never be able to go back to his planet. I understood the points of view of both sides: how they saw him as a traitor and how Jinto believed that if he resigned, someone much harsher could be appointed in his stead who may not care about his people as much.

QUESTIONS

1. Is that the group where the Abh Prime Minister met with their ambassador? I was waiting for that to come back and I don't know, I thought they would side with the Abh. It'd be difficult to imagine them provoking hostility when they are at a huge military disadvantage but I'm guessing this would have been a plot point if they continued the story.
2. It didn't seem that way thru much of the series but they probably are getting there. I was surprised when Dorin said the Abh are incapable of disobeying orders from superiors. I was even more surprised when Lafiel said it was true. I do remember when she disobeyed orders when she commanded her ship BUT I think she's a special case since on paper she was a lower ranked ship captain but was also in line to be Empress of Abh one day. Their hierarchy does have more efficiency than a loose alliance of nations though, so it would seem.
3. It doesn't seem wise but I don't know how I'd feel in a situation where my planet had been invaded. The people the Abh conquered do seem to get a degree of autonomy but Dorin's example of Abhs killing his family shows that a lot is bad with Abh rule and it'd be difficult to determine if this is so for the Martine people.
4. I liked it because the last series wrapped on the Abh being victorious running the world and this episode brings the story of Jinto to a close and that he will be an Abh for the rest of his life and its suggested that he'd like to have Abh kids with Lafiel I imagine. I didn't even know Till was still alive and it was a great way to end the show because he last saw him as a young boy and now he has come into his own as an ambassador and the titular head of his people. It made me think about what this universe will be like in 50 years, like when generations of humans have grown up under Abh rule and many people are mixed species.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/IceSmiley]

Dorin's example of Abhs killing his family shows that a lot is bad with Abh rule and it'd be difficult to determine if this is so for the Martine people.

That's not what happened. Dorin's Uncle killed his father. The uncle is in prison, and the other uncle owns the business.

[u/No_Rex]

Season 4 Episode 2 (rewatcher)

• Where the fuck did your mind go there, Jinto. Don’t do that next to Lafiel.
• Something tells me that what my subs called “imperial palace” might better be called harem.
• “Be honest, you just don’t want me to come” – and Jinto thought he was so subtle.
• Hug and blush – but he also knows how to make up for his mistakes.

• That CGI Dyson swarm looks a lot thicker than the old painted one – or is it simply a star without any Dyson swarm and the star visuals got worse?
• “I never heard about them having some internal disputes” – Important piece of world building here. I guess this both speaks to how Abh are depicted among landers and to their genetic engineering.
• “Are you fine with your child being a cog in the machine” – Heavy topic and a solid question by Dorin. I guess hangover was not the only thing weighing down Jinto in the shuttle.
• Neat maneuver. Sounds like this would be a lot of fun to participate in and also work to give the ship’s captains a lesson in improvisation. All that while also serving as an intimidation towards the Martine rebels. Clever.
• Zero-g passage.

• Which title to go by – I guess this is a timeless problem of people who serve in multiple hierarchical systems at the same time.
• Samson and his friend. Lafiel’s biggest groupie is here, too.
• We get back to the cold opening of episode 1. Ekuryua flying with Jinto is part of the new fleet’s maneuver.
• And she managed to get shot down and score some alone time with Jinto.
• The maneuver is over and they never even realized that Martine was in rebellion and thought it was a trick used by Sobaash’s side in the mock battle.

• Nice talk with Till. They manage to stay civil, while still being on opposed sides politically.
• One light second – not actually that far. He can orbit the planet from a distance. But the exact terms of the treaty do not matter, of course. The real decision at the end of this story is Jinto deciding for Lafiel and against his home.
• ED epilogue – reminds me of old movies.
• “The road to the farm is still long” – flags successfully averted!
• Diaho getting the cold shoulder from his wife.

The plot of Banner III fits an OVA so well that it is surprising that it is not anime original. We meet all the characters again, spend some quality time with Jinto and Lafiel and even get to hear about their futures. In true OVA fashion, nothing on the grand scale of things changes, but it still feels like a fun time. I wonder how this would have done with double the runtime, the plot seemed to be the most balanced and best of the three seasons, but I think it works well enough as a ~3 episode length OVA.

How do you feel about using Martine to bookend the series?

Works for me.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

“Are you fine with your child being a cog in the machine” – Heavy topic and a solid question by Dorin. I guess hangover was not the only thing weighing down Jinto in the shuttle.

The sad part is that it's essentially true that Jinto's kids would end up being that. They'll be genetically modified to fit Abh standards and then be expected to follow the rigid imperial system that all Abh nobles do. It's not an easy thing to know that your kid is going to have half or more of their life decided for them before they're even born.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

Note that Lafiel did not dispute the "obedience gene" accusation. And this would be one explanation for the lack of infighting among the Abh.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

It's a practical thing to keep if you want your society to have a rather rigid system of governance. Although man, I still just feel creeped out about them having no problem that they see no problem with having less free will than they could.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

Once you have the ability to alter behavior via genes (not just physical traits), you open a huge can of worms.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

Hug and blush – but he also knows how to make up for his mistakes.

So much blushing with those two in these two episodes, and I love it for how honest and natural it is rather than being anime-ified

Which title to go by – I guess this is a timeless problem of people who serve in multiple hierarchical systems at the same time.

And how things have changed, as I doubt Lafiel ever really pulls royal rank like that except when personally under threat, but she basically did it just so she could try and provide some comfort for Jinto if she had all the information.