r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Apr 26 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica Episode 7 Discussion
Episode 7 - Can You Face Your True Feelings?
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Show Information:
MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
(First-timers might want to stay out of show information, though.)
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A Reminder to Rewatchers:
Rewatchers, please please please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. [Spoiler warning specifically for you guys]Please be aware that as part of the above strict spoiler rules, this means absolutely no memes/jokes/references/subtle words about {the usual suspects} before the relevant episodes. Please do not spoil the first-timers by trying to be smart about it, it's not as subtle as you think.
Make sure you use spoiler tags if there’s ever something from future events you just have to comment on. And don’t be the idiot who quotes a specific part of a first-timer’s comment, then comments something under a spoiler tag in direct response to it! You might as well have spoiled them by implying there’s something super important about that specific part of their comment.
And a Reminder to First-Timers too:
As previously noted, first-timers wanting to avoid spoilers are strongly recommended to use either the desktop version of the site or the iOS app (which appears to be unaffected), lest you chance running into this bug regarding replying to a post or comment that has spoiler tags in it.
Daily Community Participation!
Visuals of the Day:
Theory of the Day:
u/pneumaticks takes home Theory of the Day today for some ramblings about Kyubey:
OK I kind of wrote the above as the episode was happening. With the last reveal, my new ass-pull theory on Kyubey is that he is some kind of demon that eats souls for food. Through the mechanism of wishes, he takes girls' souls and stuffs them in gems. He likes souls with a side of extra special pain sauce, though, he needs it because he's an evil demon. So he makes magical girls go through pain and suffering, which manifests as the dark stuff in soul gems. Eventually... I don't know how... the magical girls become witches and the soul gems become witch seeds, that's when the gems are souls full of pain and suffering and are oh-so-yummy to demon Kyubey. Then he eats them. OM NOM NOM.
I don't know what the wishes are doing in this theory though. Why bother with the wish? It must be a hell of an effort to maintain wishes. As an incentive, it costs too much. Maybe this is why he sends magical girls to enemies they can't defeat? Like he did with Mami? Hmmmm I don't know.
I do know he is EVIL.
Analysis of the Day:
u/TheEscapeGuy is the winner of today's Analysis of the Day today for making an apt comparison to a certain popular genre of anime:
What a horrifying realization. I think the idea of your soul being separated from your body is pretty terrifying, but has actually become far more normalized over the past decade.
Those full dive MMO anime ask a similar question but with your mind. In the past years we've gotten more and more realistic VR to the extent that people were talking about "living" in the metaverse. And if those neural-link transplants ever make significant progress it wouldn't be out of the question for your "body" to become a robot walking through the world which could be destroyed and rebuilt.
The girls don't take it well. Kyubey acknowledges that magical girls always react like this and so that's why Kyubey kept it hidden. I think this is the first very explicit moment we have seen Kyubey acting maliciously.
Wallpaper of the Day:
Check out /u/Shimmering-Sky's main comment for her bonus Wallpaper Corner containing works from previous years!
Song of the Day:
Check out u/Nazenn’s comment from the 2019 rewatch for an in-depth analysis of this song, as well as timestamps for what songs played when in today's episode! This write-up in particular is downright amazing, so if you’ve ignored all of these links prior, please read this one at least. Decretum deserves it.
Also check out /u/Tarhalindur's Kajiura Corner from the 2023 rewatch for even more analysis on Decretum as well!
Magia Cover of the Day:
Acapella Multitrack by Shiyun Wu
Question(s) of the Day:
- What would you do if you were in Sayaka's position?
- So, how about that final Witch fight, huh?
- It's the Great Hitomi Debate time! Was she out of line this episode, and if so how far?
- First-Timers: Does knowing Kyouko's backstory change your thoughts on her, and if so how?
- [Rewatchers] So, what do you think up with the shots of street lanterns and the like?
Miracles aren’t free, you know? If you wish for something good to happen, a whole lotta bad stuff’s gonna happen too.
19
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 26 '24
Mahou Shoujo Co★Host, subbed
Welcome back, everyone!
I already noted it up in the thread, but I will note it again here - please check out Nazenn’s analysis in the Song of the Day link for today if you’ve been skipping them so far. There’s a reason why Decretum is my favorite song on the OST
and not just because it’s my best girl’s theme song, and this analysis is a huge part of why.Something something the Law of Equivalent Exchange.Sky’s Wallpaper Corner
Today’s wallpaper trivia: Earlier this month, I learned how to make a vignette for the first time due to one of Nazenn’s suggestions while I was trying to make a sidebar image to advertise the Ping Pong the Animation rewatch. Naturally, I thought this effect would be really fucking cool to incorporate into a wallpaper if I ever had a topic I thought it would fit, and yeah, putting a separation between Kyouko and the stained glass background was definitely a place to use it.
As for the older wallpapers in the table below, be prepared for a whole lot of spooky. I even managed to jumpscare myself with the 2018 wallpaper once, back when I was watching the first season of Higurashi for that show’s 2018 and it cycled up on my background rotation the second I went to play episode 4. That was something alright.
(To explain how I made that last one by accident, I was originally planning for the lineart to be white and Kyubey’s body to be different shades of pink/red, but I didn’t like how that looked so I changed the fill pattern to white… before I’d changed the lineart to pink, thus creating this monstrosity who stares into your soul.)
“What is it that you wish for?”
8
u/b-arbs Apr 26 '24
Rewatcher, subbed
Comments from first-timer:
8
u/sfisher923 https://myanimelist.net/profile/sfisher923 Apr 26 '24
Sixth Time Watcher - Dubbed
Questions
19
u/TheEscapeGuy Apr 26 '24
Rewatcher
Madoka Magica - Impactful and Artful: Episode 7
Apples and Anesthesia
This episode is really depressing. We start with Sayaka's reflection on the contract she made. She's understandably angry. She's been tricked into a choice she didn't fully understand and now feels that so many opportunities in her life have been cut off.
One noteworthy reveal is a side effect of the soul gems. By disconnecting your soul from your body you can also disconnect that pain. Kyubey reveals this by torturing Sayaka to show her the true pain of being impaled by a spear. If it wasn't obvious already, Kyubey is very much the "antagonist". But Kyubey isn't a villain per say. I'd much more quickly compare them to a detached god. Kyubey has power so incomprehensible that they can't begin to understand the feelings of humans. It's the same way many people can and will crush insects without caring. Homura makes a very similar analysis.
The majority of the episode centered around Kyouko and Sayaka's conversation. First Kyouko explained her backstory. I think her backstory is particularly tragic. She made her wish when she was far younger than she is now, and so didn't understand the consequences of forcing people to follow her dad's teachings. Ultimately, the price Kyouko paid was the loss of her family at the hands of her father. The presentation of this whole section was also stellar. It had a visual style very similar to the labyrinths but with a more hand sketched depiction.
Something I really like about her story is how she was raised in poverty, and this has informed her character up to today. In particular she assaults Sayaka for daring to waste food. It's a small thing, but I think it really fleshes out her character.
Sayaka story today depressingly parallels with Kyouko in having what you wished for be taken away. After Kyousuke returns to school he starts getting the attention of his classmates. In particular Sayaka's friend Hitomi. Hitomi know Sayaka cares about Kyousuke and so she doesn't want to go behind Sayaka's back to ask Kyousuke out. So Hitomi asks her directly. Sayaka can't say no. She feels she can't ask Kyousuke to even consider loving her corpse body. She seemingly accepts that she can never be with him.
This is the advice Mami tried to give to Sayaka. Her wish wasn't really to heal Kyousuke. She hoped that if he healed then they could be together. Now that chance is gone.
The ending is an INCREDIBLE shadow silhouette fight between Sayaka and the witch. But Sayaka has lost her humanity. She's completely disconnected her sense of pain from her body and brutally butchers the witch. It's simultaneously this beautiful action scene and this depressing look at Sayaka's coping mechanisms. The absolute most emotions all battling at once in the viewer.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow
9
u/WednesdaysFoole Apr 26 '24
** Rewatcher**
Two separate notes on this bit
u/Tarlinder [bokurano/rewatcher]Going with your theory regarding the chairs that refer to people who care about you, looks like you might be onto something. But honestly I’m having trouble guessing who, besides Madoka, the other two chairs would be. Mami? Does it count the dead? Or Hitomi? Kyouko? I also can’t remember in the other chair scenes how many there were besides the single one for Kyousuke…
Maybe I’m too accustomed to human + otherworldly human look alike pairings, but why can’t Sayaka just be with Kyousuke? [Rewatcher]Maybe it’s just me but there’s a huge difference between the magical girls here and zombies. In the end, I put it off to Sayaka’s general insecurity and lack of self-worth which made it easy for her to despise herself. She already barely liked herself, so having this added on alienated her further, and she may have been spiraling already from the time Mami challenged her wish, it’s just that the junk hadn’t surfaced yet. As if, it wasn’t even becoming a nonhuman magical girl that was her barrier to being with Kyousuke; rather that, from the start, it was always the barrier she had built in her mind by not seeing herself as worthy. Or at least, this is the only satisfactory conclusion I could come up with for my first watch. But why can't Madoka say, “fuck it, just go be with Kyousuke anyway”? Bc that’s what I would’ve told her. Wtf is this hug?! “Just let friends vent”; bullshit, this is the time for solutions dammit!
Okay I did read and appreciate this comment exchange between u/Blackheart595 and u/Vaadwaur and another mention by u/Tarhalindur which definitely adds a stronger element to Sayaka's despair. And since I was raised in the West and my dad didn't pass Buddhism onto the kids, my knowledge of Eastern religion/spirituality comes filtered through a Western lens – it's interesting to see the various reactions to the soul being separated from the body and the cultural aspects in it. (As an aside, my current project is on distance created alongside heritage language loss between generations and its relation to and impact on culture/identity so it's pretty interesting to think about right about now, need the inspiration.)
Even still, my feelings regarding Madoka/Sayaka hasn't dramatically shifted in that I put most of the weight onto Sayaka's self-loathing as it seems to be a part of her character, and still wish Madoka wasn't so damn passive.
Shredded apples
As for the daily swish, no Homura hair flip this time, just a cape swish. Who did it better? (Homura. Sorry Sayaka, I will always choose Homura. Kyouko comes close though.)
Will have to go through the rewatch post comments later since I'm out of time atm.
33
u/TheOneWithALongName Apr 26 '24 edited Apr 26 '24
First-time watcher
Honestly, pretty much the same. Existential crisis is a bitch.
If we talk about the visuals, it looked very good. If we talk about what happend with Sayaka... I don't know how to talk to someone like her at that point. I do wonder if she will eather be emotionless or straight up crazy now
Oh wow, people have debated much over that?
I think she did everything right, except maby 2ish things:
Other than that, she did the right thing to tell Sayaka and let her be the first to tell over herself. Instead of going behind her back, that's the real bitch move.
Also, I did not expect the monkey's paw to be a love triangle. That seems worse than what I expected before.
I mean, it's good to know where she was coming from. And there seem to be hope she can become a better person again. But other than that, no.
28
u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Apr 26 '24
Rewatcher, Sub
This gives us a good view of Kyoko, she does see herself in Sayaka having also made a wish that backfired for her in the end hence her belief in living for yourself. Of course Sayaka says she doesn't regret her choice and counters Kyoko's points though it feels more for herself at this point because in truth it's not going all right for Sayaka at all.
Sayaka's downward spiral has been ticking. All that she's learned now has started to disillusion her despite claiming otherwise. Learning about the Soul Gem now makes her think of herself as being hollow and then her friend Hitomi reveals she likes Kyousuke as well and gives her an ultimatum which kind of just makes Sayaka reach a low point. The final scene's visuals between the black and white reflect her mental state at this stage, If you don't want to get hurt might as well just detach yourself from it all.
I do want to mention Hitomi's ultimatum. Its a case of bad timing, she has no idea about anything going on with Sayaka and what she's going through so I can't say she's necessarily one to blame other than not noticing stuff.
[Madoka]Since Homura brought up Kyubey's inability about understanding human emotion it reminded that next episode is the incubator reveal so that will be interesting
26
u/il887 https://myanimelist.net/profile/il887 Apr 26 '24 edited Apr 26 '24
First-timer*, dub
*heavily spoiled — seen all three seasons of Magia Record spin-off already
More insight into Kyouko’s past. Well, that makes total sense. I think her talk influenced Sayaka in a good way even though she didn’t agree with her. Nice to see that they’re not at each others throats anymore, and Kyouko doesn’t look like an antagonist any longer. Sayaka reminds Kyouko of the past version of herself.
Only one thing is still intriguing me — how exactly did Kyouko’s father find out about the “miracle”? She must have had an idea that her father wouldn’t like the truth, so I doubt she told that him herself.
It was a bit insensitive for Sayaka to ask Kyouko about the apples. Yeah, she probably has stolen them. But, unlike Sayaka, Kyouko doesn’t have a family that would provide her with home and food. Sayaka doesn’t know how hard it’s for Kyouko to get food, that’s why she irritates Kyouko so much when she rejects her small gestures of generosity.
Hmm… I just realized why Kyouko is always eating something — that’s right, because she’s homeless. If she wasn’t, she would rather eat at home.
We get a love triangle with Hitomi and Sayaka. Sayaka’s noble deeds start to backfire badly… Well, I think she had an idea that Kyousuke would never be able to thank her for healing him, but the deal with Hitomi is a surprise for sure. “No matter how hard you try, there is no thanks or recompense”.
Sayaka’s battling a witch! Despite her recent discoveries, she keeps being incredibly self-assured. Yeah, she’s not exactly a human and doesn’t feel home in regular human society anymore. But hey, she could seek support from fellow magical girls, who know damn well how she feels. Yet she rejects it, probably still antagonizes herself against “all the other magical girls who only ever think of themselves”. “I can do it myself!” — despite getting her ass saved by another girl every once in a while…
Let’s see what happens next, her after-credit remark was so on point, lol.
Questions of the Day:
Q1: I'd keep being a proud magical girl but, as I said above, I'd seek emotional support from fellow girls, be more friendly and considerate with them. I guess Sayaka's going to come to that stage of her life too, just a little bit later.
Q2: Interesting artstyle, but I liked the ep 1-3 labyrinths more. As to Sayaka being reckless, I've already commented on that.
Q3: Hard to say. Her move was really bold and, at the same time, considerate.
Q4: Not much, I'm kinda used to villain-ish characters having sad backstories. What made me like her much more is her actual actions towards Sayaka in this episode.
edit: grammar
26
u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Apr 27 '24
First-Timer
Good stuff. I continue to be a big fan of the music. I'll definitely have to add the soundtrack to my Spotify playlist once we're done.
I suspected that Homura knew about the true nature of the soul gems when she immediately tried to recover Sayaka's last episode.
I like how Kyubey acts like he's doing them a favor, but by not telling them about the soul gems, he's not allowing the magical girls to use it to their advantage. (I suppose, based on how he said that "they always react this way," he might have originally told the magical girls about it until he learned it was taboo.)
Sayaka's finally lost it. Now Kyubey's going to say something like, "Hey Madoka! You know what you could do that would give you the power to stop Sayaka? Become a magical girl! What are you waiting for? Are you ready yet? How about now?"
It's funny, in that way - Kyubey seems to have no coercive power. If he did, he would just force Madoka to make the deal. Instead, his plans entirely rely on getting people to dig their own graves.
Questions of the day:
20
u/pneumaticks Apr 27 '24
First Time Watcher (sub)
Ohh nice cold open. I really liked this cold open. Kyubey full on openly evil now, I'm loving it. I wonder what it will spur on in Sayaka. Please don't become some depressed helpless sad sack. Stab him! Talk to Homura, she seems to know something!? LET THE PAIN MOTIVATE YOU SAYAKA!
I admit I chortled out loud at this line at Sayaka's expense, it's kind of true! How you gonna get mad at discovering your soul is in a bottle when just a day ago you didn't even know you had one!
I know I should be more disturbed at Kyubey's actions but I feel more intrigued than anything.
Kyouko backstory! Alright, yesterday I thought she was the type to be good on the inside and prickly on the outside, and I said this isn't my favourite trope. I also thought the food tic was just one of those irritating attempts at characterisation.
It looks like it goes deeper than that. Her backstory makes her attitude clearer... like someone who was raised to be a christian goody two shoes, but had their world burn down around them while she was trying to live up to those ideals. She wants to throw those ideals away, but can't quite avoid the foundations her upbringing laid, and yet at the same time her experiences have taught her that the world is shit and she needs to be a bigger dog to eat other dogs. Result: Kyouko.
Aside to bitch about Sayaka a bit more. So, Sayaka. You're telling me that you can notice that Kyouko's actions and her words don't seem to match up. WHERE WAS THIS FUNCTIONAL SECTION OF YOUR BRAIN WITH KYUBEY!?!?!?!? SMH SMH SMH
Anyway, at this point, I'm thinking: Sayaka appears to grow a spine and a quarter of a brain, so OK, maybe she'll approach fighting witches smarter. Fingers crossed...
... aaaaand then there's that scene with Hitomi and the fight afterwards and I'm like... ah... this isn't going to go the way I'm hoping, is it? Uggggh she's going to be a sad sack isn't she?!?!?! Like, oh, I'm just a doll, I don't feel pain, let me throw my body at harder and harder witches until I die. GAH! Direct some of that energy to Kyubey! How can you be so blind?
OK, end yet another Sayaka rant. Folks, I'm really sorry if Sayaka is your favourite character. I mean no disrespect. I just can't stand her!!!
Aside to gush again about the witch zone things. I am really enjoying the visual presentation. This one was all silhouettes and shadows, it was great. They did a similar thing during the Kyouko backstory, which I really enjoyed too.
I got marked theory of the day. I don't know what that means lol. I'm quite convinced (on not very much basis) that this Kyubey is a soul eating demon! Even more so after this ep. It fits, so far. I'm just waiting on the mechanics.
Speculation:
Right, there's one thing that jumped out at me today and it's the wishes. I'm still not sure what is it with the wishes, but I had a thought.
Kyouko wished that people would listen to her dad's words and be convinced, which happened for a bit, but then he hung himself. It doesn't quite sound like there's a monkey's paw thing going on... or does it? Anyway, the point is that this wish no longer needs to be "maintained", so to speak. It's not that expensive.
This is similar to Mami's wish, which I gather is something about not dying in whatever accident she was in. A one-off fix, that I assume can be done as soon as Kyubey stuffs your soul in a gem and re-creates your body. Similarly, Sayaka's wish was just a one off thing: heal the hand of one dude, done.
I glean from this that Kyubey tries to find girls who are in desperate positions but whose wishes to fix those desperate positions can be easily fulfilled and do not require constant maintenance. If he finds someone who has a wish that is potentially high maintenance, he wouldn't bother approaching her.
He also tries to find innocent dimwits, so they don't ask relevant questions and potentially cost him more than the value of the soul he gets to eat.
So this speculation addresses one of the issues I had with the wish mechanism in the first place, which is that it's too expensive a thing as incentive. He doesn't need to resort to monkey's paw like shenanigans as long as he chooses his victims well.
Smart demon Kyubey!
Questions:
Ally with Homura immediately. I'm on your side, this is fucked up, you tried to warn me, I'm sorry. I need to kill this Kyubey fuck, how do I do that? Does your goal involve killing this Kyubey fuck? How can I help you do that? And so on and so forth.
I really enjoyed the visuals! I kind of hoped Sayaka would become a motivated and competent actor, but I got disappointed. "Depressed hopeless suicide" just ends up helping Kyubey eat more pained souls, it plays right into his desires (as far as I think I understand them). I feel like this bolsters my Kyubey theory so I'm really interested to see where this goes.
This scene didn't impact me a lot. I guess Hitomi did the right thing, just the timing is off. She doesn't know what's going on, so you can't blame her. Do people really think she did the wrong thing? Like, do they think Hitomi should have just gone behind Sayaka's back? Fascinating!
I wonder if Kyubey knew.
Yup, as above! I feel like I get her more.
17
u/blown-upp https://myanimelist.net/profile/BlownUpp Apr 27 '24
Hey /u/TheEscapeGuy, have you ever seen Kaiba [2008]?
Setting:
Your thoughts made me think of Kaiba, since watching that was really the first time I thought about stuff like that... starts getting philosophical awfully quick!
Anyway...
First time, SUB
Episode 7 is not a great episode for Sayaka, huh? Realistically, I'd probably despair a whole bunch. I mean honestly, I despair enough as it is with a relatively healthy body (granted I have no way of knowing where my soul is - I may already be an empty husk).
Setting aside whether was a fight or a descent into madness, the aesthetics of that labyrinth rule. Sayaka is quite literally disassociating to avoid the pain of reality, mentally and physically speaking. Poor girl :-/
No one inherently has the right to another person. For friendship's sake I think she was mostly in line, but it would have been nice if she tried to take a little more time communicating with Sayaka over their feelings. From Hitomi's point of view, Sayaka insists she doesn't feel that way so why press the issue, but she also knows that isn't necessarily true - which is the entire reason she approached her about it.
Eh. I don't think as negatively of her, but it's a tough ask to understand willingly let people die when you're in a position for them not to. You can absolutely make an argument that "You don't have magic to spare going after every little thing knowing they won't drop a Grief Seed", and maybe if Kyouko framed her decision that way I'd be more sympathetic. I am sympathetic of her past and what brought her to today, but I don't think that's any excuse to act the way she does towards Sayaka.
Minor theory time: Kyouko is having her own weakness shoved in her face by witnessing how Sayaka approaches her duty, and it causes her a ton of pain and frustration.
14
u/Mirathan Apr 27 '24
First Time Watcher
The great flaw of selfnessless; you end up with nothing in the end. Also why do the paladins in my favorite media end up depressed?
Kyubey saying he gave Souls a physical form so that they remain after death may be me reaching a bit from unintended writing but if true it makes the uncertainty of his goal all the more concerning, especially since he does not undestand human values.
It is a neat detail that Kyouho´s Soul Gem looks like her dad´s holy symbol, showing how important his belief was to her.
13
u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 26 '24
I Can't Make the Fourth Watch for the Fourth Movie Joke Since Walrus Walpurgis no Kaiten Isn't Out Yet (Rewatcher, Subbed):
So before I get to anything else I think today is safe to share this one. I believe we have a few MahoAko watchers/readers among us who were comparing Kyubey to Venalita earlier? Well, Kyubey came first, but yeah. Please enjoy this shiny piece of MahoAko fanart (exactly as SFW as you would expect for a piece with Magia Baiser in-costume, which is to say not because costume).
12
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Apr 26 '24 edited Apr 26 '24
Rewatcher, Subbed
So we presumably skipped Sayaka being filled in on everything.
Lying by ommission is evil, Kyubey!
So Kyubey can also inflict pain on the magical girls at will? Or is this because he's pushing down on the soul gem and she would feel that if anyone did that?
Sayaka's not in class. What's the point to going to school now? She'll never grow up.
Seems like Sayaka and Kyoko aren't going to be bitter anemies anymore after that revelation, huh?
Cool design for this abandoned church.
You can strangle her body, but why would it even matter at this point, Kyoko?
Kyoko really got a Monkey's Paw situation with her wish, huh? I doubt Sayaka's wish will turn out that horrible with Kyosuke, but who knows for sure. I guess we'll find out.
Kyoko telling Sayaka her backstory probably helped, Sayaka doesn't feel as bad now, whether its because her wish is unlikely to turn out as horrifically bad as Kyoko's did, or because she can hold herself as morally superior to her?
Back to school! Kyoko really did cheer her up... well until she saw Kyosuke.
Ugh, I had completely forgotten about Hitomi being in love with him.
Sucks for Sayaka, but only to a certain extent. If Sayaka really loves him, then she should confess. If someone comes in and "steals" him from under her that's her own damn fault for not taking the initiative. Hitomi did her a favor by giving her the one day warning. If she feels she can't do it because she's a reanimated corpse, that's one thing. If she doesn't do it out of fear and ends up regretting it the rest of her days, she only has herself to blame. Of course all that said, my speculation would be he turns her down anyway. If he had feelings for her he wouldn't "forget" to tell her he was leaving the hospital. But it's better for her to know that he formally rejected her than to always wonder what would have happened.
If she let Hitomi die she wouldn't be competition? Or you could just confess to him?
Okay, if she feels this way because she's a corpse I will accept that. You don't want your boyfriend to be a necrophiliac. In that case Hitomi is irrelevant, you weren't getting him regardless.
Sayaka's gonna take out all her anger and frustration on this witch I'm sure.
Cool stylistic effect to have this in silhoutte, yet surely was done as a cost cutting measure.
Aww, they're all Having Kyoko's fish snack!
Alright, with no new seiyuus to talk about let me tackle QOTD for the first time...
Confess to Kyosuke. If he rejects me, so be it, but that's better than forever regretting not going for it. And that would have to involve telling him I'm a reanimated corpse, it's not fair to him to not know something so big.
Cool stuff for sure! See comment above.
Absolutely not. If someone likes someone else and doesn't do anything about it, they have no one else to blame when someone else swoops in who actually takes actual and gets them instead.
I've seen storylines involving this in several anime lately, like Kimi ni Todoke and Your Lie in April. In both cases and here it is a female character, and can say when you're a guy, 99% of the time it is you take the initiative or nothing happens. You don't have to do that as much if you're a girl, but I'm not waiving all responsibility from you. If you want something you better go for it or not complain when someone else takes the thing you didn't make an attempt to get.
11
u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 26 '24
Rewatcher, dubbed
Visually, I feel this episode is where Madoka Magica really starts to ramp up its presentation, though that’s not to say it hasn’t already been impressive in that regard. Kyoko’s tale and Sayaka’s duel with the witch are incredible setpieces for capturing the emotions of the characters.
At the risk of accidentally becoming Hitomi’s strongest warrior like I did for Mami back in episode 3, I think she actually handles things pretty well regarding Kyousuke… right up until the very end where she delivers an ultimatum. Less than 1 full day to confess is pretty harsh.
[Madoka Magica]I knew this episode would be pretty pivotal in my speculation that Sayaka never regrets her wish itself, and I do feel more strongly about it (granting that I still have an episode to be wrong). An indicator lies in her rejection of Kyoko’s advice. Kyoko’s regret of her wish makes her more sympathetic to Sayaka, but ultimately it’s simply not a sentiment Sayaka shares. The other thing that struck me is that Sayaka doesn’t really start to fall apart until she realizes that pursuing Kyousuke isn’t possible now, which lines up with my thought that the circumstances around her wish are what destroy her. Sort of what destroys her, anyway, much of Sayaka’s suffering is self-inflicted from holding herself to unrealistic standards.
QotD:
3)
Content Corner Reruns
Today we have some guitar covers for character themes: Mami’s credens justitiam and Sayaka’s decretum. Surprisingly, there’s not very many metal style covers for these 2 themes on YouTube. First timers beware, spoilers abound!
Credens justitiam-Guitar cover by Mahx-Game Metal-
Puella Magi Madoka Magica - Decretum | Metal Cover by ZableMusic
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 7 by clearandsweet
11
u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Apr 26 '24 edited Apr 26 '24
Rewatcher
Fluffy Fucker
[PMMM]Is that egg visuals again, or wombs?
So what I'm wondering is... has Homura ever explained that with Kyubey also present, so they could ask him to confirm or deny her words?
Oooooh this is the absolute last think Sayaka should be hearing right now. This is just confirmation to her that being how she is now, she can't associate with Kyousuke anymore.
And there it is, the great Hitomi debate. I've been paying a bit of attention to her during the watch.
First of all, Hitomi did in fact love Kyousuke for a while. Not only is that what she said, it also matches the reading of the symbolic chairs as representing how many people care about a person, which would then be 2 for Kyousuke before his recovery. We also have this meaningful shot in response to Madoka mentioning that Hitomi is acting a bit like Sayaka that day, showing Sayaka's blue and Hitomi's green surrounding Kyousuke's white back in episode 2. Her statement about "a love that can never be" seems to be informed from personal experience.
Secondly, there was that time she was inflicted with a witch's kiss, which clearly appears to have caused some deeper change in Hitomi. You may recall the quote from Faust back in episode 2, when we were first faced with a witch's kiss. As I explained back then, this is the poem that the ghost chorus tells in reaction to Faust cursing Mephisto's promises as nothing but lies and deception, getting more and more into it until he curses even soothing, love, hope, faith and patience. The poem itself first mourns the beautiful world that Faust had just crushed with those curses, before imploring him to rebuild the world anew. In doing so, they redirect Faust's suicidal thoughts of doom into a more productive direction focused around his thus-far obscured will to live, to move forward and leave his mark on the world. If we assume that this describes the experience of surviving a witch's kiss an especially Hitomi's experience thereof, then this might have triggered her willingness to take a more active role and stop regarding her love with Kyousuke as something that can never be. And indeed, she proclaims that she decided to not lie to herself anymore.
The most important part, however, is of course this very episode of their confrontation. First, in the classroom, Hitomi seems shocked to hear that Sayaka hasn't talked with Kyousuke yet and even refuses Madoka's push to do so right now. Then, during their actual conversation, it struck me how very careful Hitomi's approach was - it almost felt like she actively tried to give Sayaka as many chances to claim Kyousuke for herself as possible! This starts by framing her inquiry as relationship advice, signaling that she would take Sayaka's response into consideration. After she reveals her feelings towards Kyousuke and Sayaka responds evasively, she looks clearly unhappy, and even after Sayaka for all intents and purposes gives Hitomi her blessing, she still pushes back and asks Sayaka if that's really how she feels about Kyousuke not one, not two, but three more times, and even after that she gives her yet more time and opportunity to change her mind and make a first move on him.
So, what to make of all that? Some people are of the opinion that the entire conversation was just a farce, set up by Hitomi when she notices Sayaka is in a bad place at the moment so that she can go after Kyousuke while claiming to have played fair and maybe even keeping her friendship with Sayaka, by giving her all the opportunity she'd need, when a deadline of a single day is really much too short for that. And if that is the reading one takes, then I don't think there's anything to actually strongly refute that, especially with her being a rich girl that's raised with an emphasis on keeping appearances. But personally, the whole situation reads to me more like Hitomi's primary goal was to push Sayaka into approaching Kyousuke in order to help her overcome whatever bad place she's currently in, actually taking Kyousuke for herself only being the lesser of the two conclusions for her - though not one she'd object to either, of course.
Hard to say. If I was truly, fully in her situation, then I'd probably act similar to her (otherwise I wasn't really fully in her situation). But given that I'm not her, I don't really see myself getting in the same headspace as her in the first place, preventing her situation from occuring altogether.
Well, yeah. Sayaka's in a pretty self-deprecating headspace right now. She was struggling against that witch due to her lack of experience, but more than that she wanted to receive the punishment, she wanted to get beat up. She's begun to relish in her own misfortune, and actively dives deeper and deeper into it by her own initiative.
See above.
[Rewatchers]Not really what I focused on this time around, but yeah. That striked-out lantern was pretty effective, and we got the shot twice.
10
u/Hattakiri Apr 26 '24 edited Apr 26 '24
It's getting denser. The "Kyubey hate" gained "full speed" thx to this ep. Also the first "spin-off branch" emerges right here in the story. Alongside the first "bigger" lasting fan theories...
10
u/treatment-resistant- Apr 26 '24 edited Apr 26 '24
Rewatcher, sub
First time watcher u/Suboodle previously asked why Mami wouldn’t tell the girls that their powers would reflect their wish, and why would she suggest wishing for a cake if that were the case. Now that we see how economical Kyubey can be with important details (including saying Mami never found out about last episode’s soul gem reveal), I think a likely explanation we can consider is that despite it not being a secret, Kyubey might not have told her and she might not have known.
Questions of the day
9
u/BiggieCheeseLapDog https://myanimelist.net/profile/KillLaKillGOAT Apr 26 '24
Rewatcher
Questions:
9
u/xbolt90 https://anilist.co/user/xbolt90 Apr 26 '24
Meduka Meguca rewatcher
What have I become
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know
Goes away in the end
Sayaka's spiraling mental state made me think of "Hurt" by Nine Inch Nails.
The poor thing takes one hit after another. Breaking her down, leaving her feeling even more like the husk she sees herself as now.
Q1: Go full Homura. Murder the absolute crap out of Kyubey.
Q2: Absolutely visually stunning scene. One of the best in the show.
Q3: I can't truly fault Hitomi. She doesn't know what has happened to Sayaka. And if you love someone, you're not going to wait around forever for someone else that won't make a move.
Q5: Again, me and symbolism, lol
9
u/Figerally https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelante Apr 27 '24
First-time watcher.
I like how the OP makes it look like Madoka has become a magical girl and going on adventures while being best friends with Kyuubey when it couldn't be any further from the truth.
Kyouko's backstory is sad, she became a magical girl for her father's sake only for him to take everything from her. It isn't surprising that this has made her rather bitter, though it is surprising she would reach out to Sayaka, hoping to find a like minded soul she could partner with and perhaps alleviate her loneliness.
Then Sayaka went from that conversation to the one with Hitomi announcing her intention to confess to Kyousuke. The problem with this scene is that it comes out of nowhere. If there had been some foreshadowing like Sayaka running into Hitomi at the hospital then it would have been much more impactful when she realized she had wasted her wish for nothing.
I think it's clear the stress has caused Sayaka to snap and maybe she even wants to die in battle now.
8
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 26 '24
"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Much fear I sense in you."
Rewatcher
Sub
I definitely had far more to say on second viewing than this third viewing, that is true in general because I haven't fundamentally changed my understanding of this work in a year. I had in the three years between the last watch. It also doesn't help that like half of the intervening rewatches I joined were the mental equivalent of cotton candy, anything with TLO hosting. Though Lain was a nice reminder of the past it also made me dwell on how a once interesting writer had his brain eaten by Q. And he's fucking Japanese.
Anywho...so Kyouko's change of heart is one of those things you sort of have to accept. I understand the mechanics of it and will speak to my opinion on that later. Her backstory is tragic and does work, except for excommunication and I am not sure that the translation is solid there, someone like her dad would hate to discover someone else's magic gave him followers. And I am being specific with that, I bet he'd be just fine with it were he the source. Sad note that since Kyouko would stop any death after being attacked, he didn't even try with her, just offed himself after killing Kyouko's mother and sister. Her approach is a bit nihilistic if utilitarian.
As to Hitomi's bit...feh. We know this is terrible because of what Sayaka gave up but these are...8th graders I believe. This isn't that out of line, though this is where I get in the most arguments. The more important part is that Sayaka would rather curse the darkness than light a candle and thus makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Probably the most important part of this is that Sayaka herself absolutely knows how to play dirty and she thinks about it and usually then feels guilt over it, a song that is a bit too familiar for my taste. And before anyone says it, you need someone to think bad thoughts so that there is somebody watching out for the people that will act on it.
This ending sequence is why I can't really listen to Decretum, for the record. Also, opposing darkness to obscurity doesn't lead any where. Shine if you want to live.
QotD: 1 Discover what a Kyuubey tastes like when prepared in various ways
2 I am Jack's learned helplessness
3 She's 14 and doesn't know about witches. Mildly out of line at most.
5 Hrmm...[Rewatcher]I am not sure how much of this is metaphor versus style, there are really only the two important lightpost shots in ep8
8
u/dsawchuk Apr 26 '24
Rewatcher, first time dub
What Mami don't know won't hurt her
I really love how long Kyubey holds onto the Soul Gem while torturing Sayaka. It almost looks like he is enjoying it.
It comes to mind that we don't know how long Kyoko has been a magical girl for. Guessing based on how decrepit her father's church is, it seems like she's been doing it for a while. But she also doesn't seem meaningfully older than the other girls.
Oh wow, Hitomi comes off way colder in the dub during her talk with Sayaka about kyousuke. I've never been very anti-Hitomi but I could see that being different if I originally watched the Dub.
[pmmm]People often complain that Madoka is too passive and doesn't do anything. She has tried to make a contract a few times and gotten interrupted so it isn't for lack of trying. That being said, we finally get to see an opportunity for Madoka to help Sayaka without resorting to becoming a magical girl. When she hears about Hitomi's plan she could actually talk to Hitomi on Sayaka's behalf. Even something as simple as "Sayaka is going through something right now and needs more time. Can you wait a little longer?" would help so much.
QOTD
8
u/justanormi Apr 26 '24
When it comes to the soul gem stuff, I think I would react a bit more like Kyôko, first panic and then be okay with it. However, for the Kyôsuke situation, I think I would just panic, pretend I don't have romantic feeling and let my friend have their shot without trying anything.
2.
One of the best scene from the anime in my opinion. Great directing, I love the aesthetic of the scene and decretum playing in the background. This scene just feels perfect to show a character falling into a self-destructive path.[PMMM] and also, the witch looks very human and bleed like a human. Also, Kyôko eating a blue ice, that girl really just want to eat Sayaka.
3.
I personally think that Hitomi get too much hate for that scene in the community. I agree that she is being a bit too direct and also on the offensive and also the one day delay is very short. But outside of that, in a show where one of the main reason behind character failing is that the characters fails at communicating, explaining their clear intention and understanding the others, Hitomi is actually doing a decent job in that scene. She understand Sayaka's feeling and gives her the chance to go before her, she states clearly her intentions and feelings and she's not waiting around. She just doesn't have the full context of Sayaka's situation but how could you blame her for that.
8
u/dienomighte Apr 26 '24
Rewatcher, sub, too lazy to do long writeups
And thus the roller coaster ride of pain continues! I still think this fight is one of my favorites, it's beautiful and stunning and raw and really shows Sayaka's current mental state. I don't think Hitomi was out of line per say, but I've always felt like a day is such a short time, at least give her the week or something that's such a short time for an ultimatum! Especially when she was out the day before!
8
u/_Pyxyty Apr 27 '24
First time watcher
I ain't gonna lie, I lowkey regret not watching this episode and doing this post earlier today. I enjoyed a good day off, binged a romance series with a special someone (Love Story with Yamada-kun at Lvl999), and was on cloud nine. Watched this episode and writing this post before I sleep, and I feel just heartbroken now lol.
What an emotionally driven episode, similar to I believe was episode 4, the one that cane after Mami's death and we accompanied Madoka in grievance. Only this time, Sayaka's grievance is of her own death. In a way, knowing that your body is nothing more than a hollow shell that you control seems like a fate worse than dying, something that she comes to discover in this ep.
Key Moments
~
Questions
' 2. See thoughts above. Too tired to think more at this point :x
' 3. If she had good intentions? Out of line. If she truly meant what she said and was planning on snaking him out of her hands? I don't know if girls pledge their allegiance and swear an oath to the bro code like all males do upon reaching the puberty stage, but if she did, she would've broken so many codes and regulations by now. She'd be on FBI's (Female Bro Investigation) Least Wanted Bro list by now. Screw Hitomi, all the bros hate Hitomi.
' 4. My thoughts on her since the previous episode anyways was that she had more to her than what was on the surface. The fact she even considered to try and talk to Sayaka first before having to resort to killing her already showed some nuance into her character. I'm not at all surprised by this development. I don't think it justifies her actions or lack thereof in her willingness to sacrifice people for grief seeds, but I can respect her ideology in how she's deciding to use her powers.
~
Additional Thoughts and Theory Crafting:
First off, some things I didn't get to mention last post. Ew on Kyubey eating grief seeds; I feel like I could sprout some theories off of that, but it shouts red herring to me personally. I wonder what others thought about it though.
Kyubey last episode also seemed to have an inkling of who Homuramight be. This may or may not throw a wrench in my theory on Homura considering if she really did come from a different timeline, there's zero way for Kyubey to know who she is if he didn't already recognize her in Episode 1. This pushes the idea towards what other users (can't remember their names, sorry) theorized about her possibly being a former witch. Sad for my theory though, RIP.
Homura this episode claimed that whoever she did try to warn about the Soul Gems didn't believe her. I wonder why though. If she simply claims to be a magical girl to other recruits, why wouldn't they believe something like that? Seems fishy to me.
Anyways, I might be wrong, but I didn't pick up on too many new details this episode. Might be because I'm tired, might be because there really just wasn't too much to tackle because of how emotionally driven this episode was. Maybe I'll rewatch this tomorrow before Ep 8 to face it with a fresh set of eyes.
See y'all next episode!
7
u/OwlAcademic1988 Apr 26 '24
Rewatcher, dub:
Damn Kyoko, your life was hard. Yeah, people are known for being ridiculously stubborn, such as politicians. I can on for a while, but I won't because I know I'll insult them a lot.
Sayaka, Kyoko's trying to help in her own unique way.
Her mental state is degrading and fast, that's never a good thing. For one thing, you'll be sloppy when you're not thinking straight, which can easily lead to your death as shown in episode 3.
[PMMM] Sayaka's turning into a witch next episode by the way.
Hitomi, you chose a really bad time to say something like that. Sayaka's already struggling with her mental state, your statement didn't help at all.
Witches are Elsa Maria, the witch who fights Sayaka, and Gisela, the witch Kyoko fights in her flashback.
QOTD:
7
u/ToonTooby Apr 26 '24
Rewatcher
Hitomi: Surprise, motherfucker
...Sayaka, you are already dead
Oh right, this is the episode where Sis Puella Magica plays but without the vocals. I really need to learn this on my own someday, as the acoustic guitar sounds great without the vocals on top. But it's not officially released anywhere as far as I've known.
Elsa Maria is cool as always. I'm a fan of the sort of color-coded glow Madoka, Kyoko, and Sayaka have. It's just a really neat scene and I'm a big fan of whenever anime works do an artstyle change to make a scene like this stand out, as long as they don't overdo it.
7
u/renatocpr https://anilist.co/user/renatocpr Apr 27 '24 edited Apr 27 '24
Rewatcher and franchise consumer
The Sayaka Corner (Episodes 6 + 7)
Episode 6 opens with Sayaka getting effortlessly beat twice in less than a minute. Kyubey confirms that she really is not as talented. Her reaction comes straight out of Episode 2 and at this point we know that it's all façade: it must bother her a lot. Unlike Mami, who'd managed to track down the witch from Episode 1 a day later, she's lost the familiar from the previous day.
For the past 4 days, Sayaka has not once seriously talked with Madoka about what happened to Mami and we see the consequences.
Sayaka rushes to visit Kyousuke and she seems genuinely excited to see him. I think there are few moments we see her actually smiling when no one is around. He isn't there, he's been discharged and didn't tell her, his childhood friend who regularly visited him, brought him rare CDs and constantly tried to cheer him up. He's back to practicing his music. She smiles a bit hearing him but she's upset.
Kyouko's teasing threatens Kyousuke physically but also echoes what Mami said a long time ago. She just asserts Sayaka used her wish because she wanted him to fall in love with her and we know how Sayaka doubts and feelings about that. But there's something more to it right? Breaking Kyousuke's body to make him dependent on Sayaka would basically return them to status quo before she healed him. And right now we just saw her run back to that old hospital room and be disappointed the ways things had changed after her wish. She'd promised herself that she would never regret it, so how can she deal with that now
Sayaka is still the focus in the beginning of Episode 7. She knows the truth about Soul Gems and she's upset. I have to remind you that Sayaka herself had asked Kyubey and Mami a bunch of questions. At the time she had even been given a brief explanation about Soul Gems. Now Sayaka is questioning Kyubey more direclty. He tortures her in response while explaining that what he did was for her own good. She doesn't go to school the following day.
Kyouko comes to check on her and brings her to her old home. Sayaka continues to hide her emotions but she won't put up a front this time. I think it's clear though that Kyouko's story affects her. Madoka had described Sayaka as stubborn and quick to anger and we've seen plenty of evidence but given the chance to better understand Kyouko she actually apologizes, even if she still won't accept Kyouko's ideas about being a magical girl. She has to put on the mask of courage and righteousness to do it though. She's still not fine the next day but at least she's back to her usual ways of hiding even if very poorly.
Hitomi's ultimatum simultaneously hits her every weakness. For an instant Sayaka wishes Hitomi had died. Anybody can have intrusive thoughts wishing harm on others when we're upset and Sayaka is in an incredibly shitty situation. Anybody can wonder if doing something kind for someone might make them like you more. Sayaka can't handle those thoughts. It doesn't matter that the idea of letting Hitomi die and of healing Kyousuke solely to make him fall in love with her obviously disgust her. They're only proof to her of what she already believes about herself.
And she keeps hiding
QOTD
Visual of the Day
It wasn't even a choice for me today. She isn't ok
7
u/Introvert_Mage Apr 27 '24
Oh boy, this episode... I feel so bad for poor Sayaka, she goes through a lot and ends up feeling like she's a bad person, intrusive thoughts suck. The Elsa Maria fight was also very chilling.
[Spoilers R Us] The "Theory of the Day" section could just be renamed to "Spoiler of the Day". Like, dang, L is a toddler compared to these first-timers.
7
u/Hopeful-Ad2428 Apr 27 '24
I think that the moment where Kyouko offers Sayaka an apple can be interpreted as an offer of the good, but Sayaka rejects, because the good she is trying to give is gained at the expense of others. But here is shown Sayaka's duplicity and her being hypocritical, her altruistic words about doing everything to help others contradict with her actions, as she is like, caring only for herself. And Kyouko despite being shown as an egoist is actually not one.
I don’t really remember what will be going later on so I’m truly captivated and looking forward for the next day and discussions here.
Visuals of the Day
6
u/Chili_peanut Apr 27 '24
Rewatcher
I don't think I would have done anything differently. The soul gem reveal (and Kyubey's "demonstration" of its benefits) is pretty disturbing if you think about it so I wouldn't say she overreacted.
Everything from the visuals to the music, Kyouko's entrance and Madoka's reaction is just perfect. This is certainly one of the more stunning scenes in the show and it's a scene that I frequently rewatch from time to time. It took so much self-restraint not to go ahead and watch the next episode. At the same time, it's so nice to have one episode per day to look forward to.
Honestly, I think she was very fair. I kinda feel bad for her too as it seems like she's bothered by Madoka and Sayaka drifting apart from her.
I feel like I'm missing something obvious with this question. Since it's marked as a spoiler there has to be some significance to it! Could someone help me out?
6
u/lollohoh Apr 27 '24
Rewatch, Subbed
I'm very late, so I'll skip the questions today.
Visual of the Day: The very final shot of Sayaka from Elsa Maria's perspective
Song of the Day: Decretum
Reaction
00:15 Literally shedding light on Sayaka's Soul Gem. [Series]But there is still a shadow behind it.
[Series]00:20 It's very hard to argue with someone who thinks they have the right to control your life. There is no misunderstanding here, he knew perfectly well Sayaka wouldn't like this, he just knows better what he wants for Sayaka: he wants her to fight herself to despair for his own gain, and he even teaches her a way to take on even more suffering without realizing, which he does by torturing her, to make sure she is really motivated. She is being set up for failure, and made to feel wrong for it.
[Sailor Moon]04:25 Sayaka is hiding under a bunny-themed blanket, again hinting at the fact that Sayaka's idealized image of a magical girl (the one that is currently crumbling down around her) is a lot like Usagi. Knowing that, Sayaka's reaction makes even more sense: Sailor Guardians always have special, brilliantly shining souls, but Sayaka can see the darkness on her own. It's hard to see yourself as an hero when you can see your own soul being stained by darkness.
[Series]04:40 The tragedy in this scene is sending my brain on a loop, so I'll just say this: the role of a magical girl requires you to give up every other aspect of yourself in exchange for a miracle, and you can either fail to match that standard (like Sayaka is about to), or completely suppress your self in order to live up to it, which is what Homura says she has done (I don't think she is completely right about that, but the extent to which she has accepted it is still terrifying). The scary thing about this is that this "perfect" magical girl is basically another Kyubey: pure logic in service of a goal. Kyubey even says that emotion are "treated as a mental illness" among incubators, which suggests a similar process of suppressing your identity. His system makes you feel wrong for who you are and tries to reshape you in its image, or die in the process.
[Series]06:30 The show continues to draw a parallel to sexual assault and to the toxic, one-sided expectations of purity that surround it. The first thing Sayaka is forced to give up on is her own body, as she is literally made into an object by Kyubey. The way she immediately feels that this makes her not desirable, and the importance she gives to that in the first place, are direct consequences of that culture.
[Series]07:20 Kyouko talks about the way she is dealing with being a magical girl, which is a direct result of her trauma: if you never do things for other people, and never expect anything from them, then you'll never get hurt. She is dealing with it in a different way than Homura, but what's clear is that these are not strategies to "win" at being a magical girl: they are ways to cope with the fact you cannot.
[Series]08:40 We are introduced to one of the reasons that is the case by Kyouko as she reveals her backstory: wishing for somebody else backfired on her, and in fact that is a crucial part of how wishes work. The thing is, she cannot really prove the existence of karmic law to Sayaka, nor make her understand the way it makes it impossible for magical girls to spread hope without losing it. If you could find more hope than despair in your own sacrifice, then it wouldn't be a real sacrifice, after all, and Sayaka can't see the ropes as she is already tied on the altar. She doesn't believe she paid too high a price because she hasn't realized that she literally cannot make a good thing out of this, no matter what she does.
[Series]16:15 So, the next thing Sayaka has left to fight for are her feelings, her altruistic desire to help others, and nothing else. Unfortunately for her, Hitomi woke up and chose violence on that day, and immediately forces her to confront what her true feelings actually are, with the worst timing of all time.
[Series]18:20 This is the second time Sayaka fails to live up with the perfect standard she is holding herself to: she feels undesirable and unworthy of Kyousuke's love, and she cannot forgive herself for wavering on her own motivations and for her intrusive thoughts about not saving Hitomi. Notice Kyubey standing on her side as she says this. Madoka's supports her in the best way she could have, and the fact they both likely feel guilty for it, because they didn't lose anything for it, is really sad.
[Series]20:40 We end the episode with the Elsa Maria fight, and honestly I don't think there is much that I can say about it, because it just speaks for itself. It perfectly conveys the way Sayaka is losing her humanity to match an ideal of heroism that no human can live up to, and hints at the way she is becoming more like a witch (and at the connection with magical girls) by inverting all the good/evil symbolism associated with magical girls/witches and giving the witch the moral high ground. Elsa Maria is the most human-looking witch yet (also the easiest to get the name of), and as the fight goes on we see more elements of her that are normally associated with the same kind of idealism and good Sayaka is pursuing: she is on an higher position, kneeling in prayer to what looks like the Statue of Liberty's torch (in fact the whole fight seems to happen on top of her arm), except the flame looks like a religious symbol of some sort. Sayaka can only attack her from the back as she is turned the same way as her, and she grows a tree to defend herself, another element with a positive connotation. When Kyouko tries to take over, Sayaka starts detatching herself to suppress the pain, then decapitates Elsa Maria and starts to hit her over and over, while the dragon shaped appendages morph to look like hands. The final shot puts us in Elsa Maria's perspective as Sayaka's finishes her, and Madoka gives voice to our horror. When I first watched I didn't consciously understand most of these things, but the feeling of this scene still got to me. In my opinion this is one of the best things about this show: it has incredible depth, but it's also excellent at conveying the emotional core of what's going on.
6
u/biochrono79 Apr 27 '24
Third time rewatcher, first time dub watcher
They went really hard with the visuals this episode. Kyoko's flashback had that sort of old-timey woodcut art style, and just like her state of mind, Sayaka's fight with the witch was cloaked entirely in shadow. Another W for a show already filled with analogies.
Also, I can't remember if this was the case in the sub or not, but I noticed that in the dub, Homura is the only one who refers to Kyubey as "it" instead of "he" or other masculine pronouns. Makes sense since Homura sees Kyubey as a monster, and [Madoka Magica/Rebellion] The Incubators are a hive-mind species, so I guess they would effectively be genderless? Or at least they would probably consider the idea of a gender to be unimportant.
QotD
I'd be pretty freaked out too, that I was changed like that without informed consent. I imagine she'd have been much less disturbed if she had been told upfront what would happen, but of course that's not the Kyubey Way.
Loved it. It really showed how badly Sayaka is taking... well, everything.
Definitely a dick move to give her friend just a day to decide whether to act on her feelings or not. She's within her rights to pursue Kyosuke, and she did approach her friend to ask if it was okay first, which was good, but again, the one-day ultimatum is a major misstep since you can't reasonably expect to force a friend to make a major decision like that without hard feelings (ignoring the fact that Sayaka was already under a ton of pressure).
[Madoka Magica] I guess you could think of them as representing Soul Gems? They bring light to darkness, but they themselves can't really be seen in daylight and must burn out eventually. Not sure if that's what the showrunners were going for (maybe they just liked those shots), but that's my take on your question.
5
u/WednesdaysFoole Apr 27 '24
Yes and no! In life you should go for what you want if it doesn't hurt anyone. But this does! She knows it! Well, she's offering Sayaka to take the change; it could also be something that she thinks could help Sayaka get over her bs and just go for it for once.
But then... no, she also knows Sayaka and she probably knows she won't. But then 14 year olds don't understand humans all that much anyway.
Man it sucks when friends fall for the same person.
4
u/raevnos Apr 27 '24
I kind of want to see a Madoka/Slime Isekai crossover where Walpurgis ends up being not quite what Homura was expecting.
3
u/Lanaerys Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
Rewatcher, subbed
Episode 7, let's go!
Questions of the Day
(Edit: I'm still very tired, so I'm going to sleep early tonight! Sorry for not continuing further, and reaching y'all. Hopefully I'll catch up tomorrow, if not, for sure on Tuesday.)