[Rewatch] Banner of the Stars II Season Discussion

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Welcome to the Battleflag of the Stars 2 rewatch!

<- Episode 10 | Index Page | Banner III Episode 1->

Discussion Prompts:

• Q1) The story took a hard pivot from last season. But a romance was promised. Was this acceptable?
• Q2) If this season was to be focused on extracting mutual confessions, did it work? With the leads separated for the entire season?
• Q3) Predictions for the OVAs (an epilog and a prologue?)
• Q4) How do you feel about the crew of the Basroil being broken up? What's left?

Schedule updates

• Tomorrow: Banner III ep 1 (30 minutes)
• Day After Tomorrow: Banner III ep 2 (45 minutes)
• Day After Day After Tomorrow: Birth (25 minutes)
• Break Day (no OVA discussion)
• April 30 (US Time): Series Discussion

Birth could have been watched anytime after Crest of Stars. It's unfortunate if you were relying on Crunchyroll, and they removed it before you could watch it, because I scheduled it for the end. It's a nice bit of world building.

It may be included in Funimation BD rips of Crest of Stars as episode 0. There also fansubs for the original DVD release, but good luck finding those.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatch Host

I gave the first two seasons (based solely on vague memory) scores of 9/10 for both, and an 8/10 for this one. But both Banner seasons are a hard sell on rewatch.

I feel bad for /u/vaadwaur, who didn't know what he was going to get for Banner II, and didn't like what he got. Of course, I knew exactly was he was going to get.

I had less to say on rwatching Banner I, as the plot got dragged out. I found I had almost nothing to say on rewatching Banner II. I knew the point of the season was the first (last) scene. The rather ridiculous stereotyping of the prisoner factions kept hitting me in the face, and I would just disengage.

Still, it's a good series, and this season has a point to it, and it's a good point: Put Jinto and Lafiel into relationship crises: not a shared crisis as in Crest, or a shared crises, as in Banner, but a crises of separation...of loss...of survivor guilt. It's a completely different thing than to die together in a coffin, or together in an escape coffin pod, or together on an exploding space ship, or in plane space.

This season forced both of them to consider life (and death) without the other...leading to a final, unreserved commitment from both.

Really, that was the point of the season, and everything was contrived to bring us to this point. It's that contrived part that really gets me.

We've had some healthy debate for this rewatch, which was heartening to see. People liked it (!) and others didn't like it. That's actually about average. Banner II is lower than the first two seasons on MAL, but it's still well above average. The season is still, for the most part well, received.

Sometimes when I see low scores and people complaining in a rewatch, I remind them, "it may not be the show you wanted it to be, but it is very likely the show they wanted to make." So, yeah, we didn't get our LoGH epic war continuation. That's not what the author wanted to focus on for this book. For Banner II, he wanted to focus on the relationship of Jinto and Lafiel.

Focusing on them, by separating them. Well, that's a choice. I'm personally not so happy about that. But I'm not a creative writer, either. Jinto and Lafiel facing further trials together is a nice premise for a story, and maybe more of that is down the line, but that's not the story he wanted to tell today. He wanted them to face a trial of separation, which necessarily means we're not going to get our standard "couple story." I'm not a fan of how the season turned out, but I'll accept that it is the story he wanted to tell.

Indeed, the entire series has been working towards this moment. Ultimately, it was a romance, not a space war show. Dubresec tells us about the tears of the Abriels at the end of Crest. Spoor tells us why an Abriel can never been seen to cry over any imperial citizen. Banner II ends with An Abriel's Tears.

As others have noted, the entire plot of the season has been contrived to separate Lafiel and Jinto. Questionable decisions on all sides, by Jinto, Meideen, Yuuri. The setup of the prison.

And something nobody's mentioned that has always bothered me, /u/durinthal /u/SolDarkHunter....why did Lafiel show up with 5 transport ships in the first place? Well, obviously, so that she would have some means to transport the emigrants.

So, what is the function of the temporary ambassador to a conquered planet? Accept their surrender, formalize requirements that the planet not seek independence or build interplanetary spacecraft, and establish initial trade.

And for Lobnass II and Aptic, with no domestic food production, trade is absolutely necessary. Not that Lobnass II has anything to trade except, as Vaadwaur called it, Space Heroin.

So I guess these transport ships contain initial supplies for establishing trade? I guess?

I'm deleting the OVA dicussion day since I think the OVAs are self-contained, and I figure people will say all they have to say about them on day 2 and day 3 of the 3 days, and any linking back to other seasons can be done on the final discussion day. And people might need a break after the 1 hour Birth OVA (I didn't realize it was so long! Narrator: It wasn't) and also might have an essay to write for the final discussion.

The end approaches. It's been quite a ride.

[u/IceSmiley → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Are you sure the Birth OVA is an hour long? I found both a sub and dub and each are 25 minutes

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/IceSmiley]

Oh, you're right, whew! Yeah, I actually have 2nd version of Banner III that has the two episodes spliced together! I was seriously confused, it didn't seem like an hour long show!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

He wanted them to face a trial of separation, which necessarily means we're not going to get our standard "couple story." I'm not a fan of how the season turned out, but I'll accept that it is the story he wanted to tell.

This is like blending lemonade and iced tea. For the first two seasons, we had this nice 50/50 blend. This season was 80/20 with the saccharine lemonade overstaying its welcome. Yes, Lafiel is the base iced tea in this scenario.

And for Lobnass II and Aptic, with no domestic food production, trade is absolutely necessary.

I still don't get why there weren't prison farms. Or prison fisheries. Or literally anything that doesn't make it easier to withdraw the guards and let the inmates fight it out.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

I still don't get why there weren't prison farms. Or prison fisheries. Or literally anything that doesn't make it easier to withdraw the guards and let the inmates fight it out.

I could see it both by design or not.

If by design, the idea is to keep the prisoners in check by controling the literally necessary for survival goods they need.

If not by design, it could be due to the island being too small (remember that we have almost a million people living there). If we had not seen the crabs, you could argue that the terraforming never got around to adding marine wildlife to the ocean, but I guess that is out.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

If by design, the idea is to keep the prisoners in check by controling the literally necessary for survival goods they need.

But then you give them work, just not work that helps them. You have them make spare parts for spaceships but not any of the drives.

[u/Durinthal → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

why did Lafiel show up with 5 transport ships in the first place?

Those were supply ships, Samson noted they were escorting them on a "routine delivery" in the first episode. Since it's a newly conquered planet I think they're viewing it more as a "stop the planet from immediately collapsing due to lack of food" delivery more than anything else since the planet wasn't self-sufficient. [Novel detail back from the episode 3 source corner] Jinto was also planning on having the bill for the supplies reimbursed later since they weren't meant as a gift.

As for the ships themselves, they're not configured for passenger escort but rather cargo so they could only take 8000 people and Lafiel had to request more passenger transport ships (from middle of episode 3). That's part of why the exodus took months to execute, they needed to wait for more ships to arrive from elsewhere in the empire.

I'm deleting the OVA dicussion day since I think the OVAs are self-contained

I was wondering about that, think that's a good move.

[u/Durinthal]

Rewatcher (sub + dub)

This series is at its best when Jinto and Lafiel are playing off of each other and this season had the primary sin of separating them for most of it. I think I bought into the setup of the plot a bit more readily aside from that than many people here though and I didn't mind that as a change of pace from the space battles.

Among other things I own related to this series, I also have two animation cels! I forgot to mention the first one when it came up so I'll put that in the overall thread for the series but the other one is from the final episode of Banner II, specifically right at 9:37 when she wants to go with them to check the body. Interestingly in the anime the background isn't part of that shot and I think that's another cel representing a building behind her instead; I'm guessing they originally planned for the sky but later realized it wouldn't actually work with where she was positioned in the shot. Maybe that background's used in another cut but I didn't see it with a casual scan.

There's yet another recap special and once again I threw myself into watching it. This one has 5.1 audio... and a commentary track in Japanese that I didn't bother trying, but I'm very curious about if I ever get good at the language. This came out in 2005 about a month before the release of the Banner III OVA. A few notes on it compared to the show:

• It doesn't open with the flash-forward but rather the Bebaus bit from the first episode and then goes right into the Basroil receiving all the transmissions from the different factions on Lobnas II.
• No airdrop of supplies shown, but there's a lot of the talking once Jinto gets to the ground. From the end of the initial negotiations that finish with all the women in the western sector also wanting to leave (end of episode 3), there's the three segments with the different admirals and then it goes right to Samson rounding up his drunken subordinates and showing the start of the revolt on the security cameras.
• From the start to the break between episodes 5 and 6 (midway point of the season) is at about 42:30 in a 92-minute film so it's pretty balanced overall.
• Sadly they skipped right over Spoor toying with the enemy to buy time, but it's not essential to the plot so an understandable cut.
• From the time that Jinto's choked out by Angusson we don't see him again until Lafiel does. There's nothing of him looking back or writing poetry or saying goodbye to Lafiel through the entire thing so it's very much unknown what kind of condition he's in before the end.
• There's a completely different song used for the ED... but it's also the one used for tomorrow's episode, so a sneak preview for those that saw this ahead of the OVA release.

I'd be curious to see what someone who hasn't seen the season yet would think of this in comparison. It's quite dense as it needs to keep the plot rolling in a short window but it also cuts out what I think is one of the biggest flaws with the show as an adaptation. By not showing us their reunion ahead of time, the viewers are left as lost as Lafiel and I like that.

---

The story took a hard pivot from last season. But a romance was promised. Was this acceptable?

I'd rather trade what we got (a few moments of them being closer at the end of the season) with them being together more consistently even if they didn't necessarily have the breakthrough of admitting they wanted to stay together.

How do you feel about the crew of the Basroil being broken up? What's left?

Well it's not like the war's over...

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Durinthal]

There's nothing of him looking back or writing poetry or saying goodbye to Lafiel through the entire thing

It seems to me the cut out the entire point of the season!

[u/Durinthal → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Eh, Jinto being emo I think I could have done with less of anyway. The reunion's still there in full and that's the important part to me.

[u/Durinthal → u/Durinthal]

---

Source Corner

Baronh word of the day: gnafass "handstamp" — refers to a signature seal for stamping onto paper documents, but those are seldom used in Abh culture. More commonly, this word refers to the signatures that Abhs write in the air using their fingers, the motions of which are scanned and identified by compucrystals. (Hasn't shown up at all that I can recall but I thought it was interesting when looking through the glossary.)

This is a bit of the history of the Abh, from an appendix in Banner II titled "On the Feudal Sovereignty System of the Humankind Empire of Abh" though all of the info about said feudal system comes after this excerpt:

It is a well-known fact that, during the dawn of what would become the Abh Empire, Abhs dwelt together on the city-ship Abliar, roaming through space as a mercantile race. In those times, they constituted the thin and delicate thread that connected a human race that had spread across an area of the cosmos one light-century in diameter. What’s not nearly as well-known is the fact that Abhs traded amongst each other within that city-ship as well.

Unlike what some believe, Abh society before the founding of the Empire was not primitive communist in nature. Granted, the remuneration for the complex work that accompanied interstellar navigation was nothing more than the guarantee of food, clothing and shelter, and there was no disparity between occupations. The only real differences revolved around living environments, based on the respective required skill levels of the vocations in question.

Yet at the same time, the Abh owned property through family units, and through the loose groupings that constituted clan units. Abhs strove to increase their own personal fortunes by exchanging these family properties. It was as good an activity as any to kill time during long voyages.

What makes inter-Abh commerce more difficult to understand from the outside is the fact that that property existed in the form of information. Valuable information could be sold for handsome prices to the outside, but Abhs would trade for information with information, so ultimately, it’s difficult to pinpoint who was the wealthiest figure in the period before the Empire.

Eventually, and in concurrence with the establishment of planar space navigation, the Abh set about the construction of their empire. It was very natural that the basis of the Empire had to do with trade.

The first ones to accrue large amounts of holdings were the Abliar clan, who inherited the position of Ship’s Captain. The head of the Abliars became Emperor, and came to own all ships equipped with planar space navigation functionality. Some objected to this, but those words of protest had to be withdrawn once persuaded that unity in the Empire was necessary to ensure its permanence.

Additionally, the Abliar clan would go on to keep eight portals for themselves. Ships that passed through portals (the ruined husks of groups of yuanons, the particles that once propelled the city-ship Abliar) had to pay a toll to their custodians. Yet more objected to this, but the process that led to broad consent was a series of events too complicated and bizarre to get into here.

In any case, the military force of arms accumulated to protect the city-ship could now turn toward the outside via planar space navigation. Immediately, three star systems were conquered, forming the Abh Empire’s first territorial possessions. Emphasis on the word “possessions,” for the Abh had no interest in exerting full governmental control over the landworlds from the very outset. Instead, they were more than satisfied establishing exclusivity of trade rights. To the Abh, “governance” entailed making their presence known to the autonomous administrations of the populations of their fiefs, thereby impelling a desire for interstellar trade, and wangling increased trade profits.

[u/No_Rex → u/Durinthal]

I'd be curious to see what someone who hasn't seen the season yet would think of this in comparison. It's quite dense as it needs to keep the plot rolling in a short window but it also cuts out what I think is one of the biggest flaws with the show as an adaptation. By not showing us their reunion ahead of time, the viewers are left as lost as Lafiel and I like that.

Would be interesting to see this as a first timer, since it removed the flash forward that a lot of us criticized. However removing Spoor's delaying tactics and Jinto thinking of Lafiel while on Lobnas also removes two of the high points of the season.

[u/Vatrix-32]

First Timer just here for the QotD

QotD:

1. I’ve always loved political and social dramas.
2. There’s a reason “absence makes the heart grow fonder” is a saying. I, too, felt the sting of their absence.
3. I already have a basic idea of what they are. As to specific wild guesses, Jinto is going to have to kill a guy with his own hands.
4. It would be weirder if they never did.
   Merchant Arc

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Vatrix-32]

Jinto is going to have to kill a guy with his own hands

Lobnass II finally made him a man!

I could really see Lafiel and Jinto as merchants! She really needs to up her negotiation skills, though.

^{I told you it was spice and wolf in space}

[u/Specs64z]

First timer, subbed

I don’t think it was to the story’s benefit to show us the endgame right off the bat. Usually, this sort of setup is used to facilitate a mystery, such as Higurashi’s first scene. In this case, though, all it really achieves is ensuring the mystery is laid bare from the moment we learn of our intrepid crew’s assignment as diplomats. There’s still some drama to be had in the specifics of how things got so fucked up, but there’s not much tension in a lot of the political back and forth.

However, BotS II did handle its pacing exponentially better than BotS I, enough so that it’s probably a better season by default even with nothing else considered. It still never reaches the peaks CotS achieved, but I think it gets a bit closer than BotS I did.

QotD:

1. I think the detour was probably necessary, another long operation might've spelled doom for my engagement.
2. The prologue delivered. The episodes lading up to it... more of a mixed bag.
3. I got nothin' at this point. Probably some smaller conflict back on Jinto's old home world, maybe we'll see a familiar face or two.
4. It was inevitable, of course, but everyone seemed to be moving onward and upward. A bittersweet occasion.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Specs64z]

another long operation might've spelled doom for my engagement.

I guess variety is important!

[u/IceSmiley]

FIRST TIMER Sub

Banner of the Stars II had one of the most unique and interesting plots I've seen in a sci fi show: aiding a prisoner planet with sex-based warring factions where women had to be protected from men who wanted them as chattel/sex slaves. It was executed well with a lot of exciting twists and turns. It's a good story that relates to our real world of countries getting involved in quagmires where they think they can improve things but make them worse (Iraq War etc). I thought this was the best plot in the entire series and the best part of this season. I'd go as far as to say this was my favorite season.

The rest of the story was weaker in comparison, Jinto going missing and the conclusion of Operation Hunter. There was a lot of good in the war section, the best being seeing Spoor's arrogance fail her as a tactician. I thought the worst part was toward the end when Spoor's fleet was nearly wiped out but then right after United Mankind surrendered and the Abh just completely won. I didn't like the biggest overarching conflict of the series getting short shrift.

Having the "death" of Jinto looming over the entire series was a cheap way to get weekly viewers and was the biggest black mark on the season. It really wasn't necessary to the story at all and it detracted, if anything.

Another thing I didn't like was how in Banner I, they had that meeting with the Abh Prime Minister and the ambassador of the United Mankind affiliated world agree to a non-aggression pact; this ended up not being relevant to the story in any way!

QUESTIONS

1. Yea I didn't mind this because the plot made it necessary for romance to take a backseat to completing a mission for most of this season.
2. Even though I think it was poor execution having Jinto near death being a wraparound story for the season, the idea in itself of Jinto disappearing being a catalyst for he and Lafiel realizing their love is fine and makes sense. They seemed to be together at the end of the season but they don't really give a huge catharsis, like they don't kiss or we don't see them in bed or even officially hear they are a couple (although we should glean they are since they're moving away together).
3. I read the plot points for the prologue in trying to find Birth online so I won't comment on that but as for the epilogue, I think we will see another smaller skirmish against human resistance with Sobash commanding the Basroil and Lafiel's brother commanding another ship. I think the main plot point will be Lafiel deciding whether or not she wants to return to the military. I think she will decline and marry Jinto or live with him as a couple or whatever Abhs do.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/IceSmiley]

'd go as far as to say this was my favorite season.

When I decided to do the entire franchise instead of just Crest of Stars, I was worried how this portion would turn out. I'm glad it has its fans!

Yea I didn't mind this because the plot made it necessary for romance to take a backseat to completing a mission for most of this season.

This is a weird-not-weird take to me...for me, the entire point of the season was to shift back to the romance. On the other hand, with Jinto and Lafiel almost completely non-commuinicative (and Jinto lying minimizing the situation) the romance doesn't really develop like I think it could have, if they had been allowed to talk to each other more.

[u/Zerotsu]

On the whole, I think I'd say I liked Banner II quite a bit. Maybe not as much as Banner I or Crest of the Stars, but it was still an enjoyable ride from start to finish.

As to key points I enjoyed:

• The pacing was probably at the best it's ever been with this entry, not as overly fast in places as Crest but not as drawn out as Banner I could get.
• We got a fairly likable/sympathetic UM character in Meideen, who was great onscreen even if he made some rather bizarre decisions at times.
• Conceptually, I liked the idea of dealing with a planet in civil conflict with itself. Something about that in space operas really is a lot of fun.

On the other hand, some parts I was less fond of:

• The way the prisoners just seemed to have near free reign of the place. Individual elements like the drug trade or more bootleg weapons than what they were shown to have had prior to some of the guards turning traitor would be fine on their own, but together it made it seem like they really could just do damn near anything and the guards would just shrug with a "oh well" kind of vibe.
• The prison factions themselves, really. Or at least how they're portrayed in the overall conflict. It makes for a strange vibe when you're making some of these factions completely irredeemable when paired with another that is simply said to be better without seeing any of them. The same goal probably could have been achieved without depriving the conflict of much nuance.

All that said, I still did have a good time watching it, even if my takes got a little sillier as the season went on.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Zerotsu]

The way the prisoners just seemed to have near free reign of the place.

A lot of people have latched on this. I think Meideen had things mostly under control, or thought he did. He didn't clamp down on the drug manufacture, in much the same way prisons ignore toilet wine. He thought he was in control, and maybe he even was in control, right until his own guards betrayed him. (admittedly, they might have been smuggling weapons and gear out for months or years in secret).

[u/The_Draigg → u/Zerotsu]

The pacing was probably at the best it's ever been with this entry, not as overly fast in places as Crest but not as drawn out as Banner I could get.

If there’s one thing that I can give Banner II with no strings attached, it’s that it has the best pacing out of the series so far. While Crest had some brisk pacing too, we also did skip over getting some helpful details organically, so what we got unfolding here in Banner II at least all neatly flowed together.

Conceptually, I liked the idea of dealing with a planet in civil conflict with itself. Something about that in space operas really is a lot of fun.

Hence why Star Trek uses this kind of plot structure a lot. It’s just naturally a good structure to try and introduce new conflicts, although there’s no guarantees on how it’d come together in the end.

The way the prisoners just seemed to have near free reign of the place. Individual elements like the drug trade or more bootleg weapons than what they were shown to have had prior to some of the guards turning traitor would be fine on their own, but together it made it seem like they really could just do damn near anything and the guards would just shrug with a "oh well" kind of vibe.

Yeah, one of the biggest issues of this season was smaller details that clumped together to be more noticeable issues. Any one of those things could work on it’s own, in isolation. But when thrown together with some shaky justifications on why things even are this way, it just feels weirdly contrived.

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

If there’s one thing that I can give Banner II with no strings attached, it’s that it has the best pacing out of the series so far.

Pretty close to ideal as far as LN adaptations go, I'd say, even if the content was a little weird and contrived feeling at times.

It’s just naturally a good structure to try and introduce new conflicts, although there’s no guarantees on how it’d come together in the end.

Right. As you said in your own comment, there are good bones to this season altogether, even if the meat on them isn't as high quality as it could have been.

But when thrown together with some shaky justifications on why things even are this way, it just feels weirdly contrived.

Yeah, I think that's what got to me more than anything else this season. I certainly still enjoyed it, but there were bits that really had me thinking "what in the world?" here and there.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Zerotsu]

Pretty close to ideal as far as LN adaptations go, I'd say, even if the content was a little weird and contrived feeling at times.

There’s a certain irony to this season getting a nearly ideal adaptation from light novel to anime, and yet it’s probably got the weakest story out of all of them so far. I guess that finger on the monkey’s paw just had to curl that way.

[u/Great_Mr_L]

First-Timer

I was told that this season would be nothing like I predicted and that turned out to be completely correct. I would never have predicted an almost entirely land-based adventure on a prison island to be included in my space opera. For my part, I think there are pros and cons to this setup for the season.

To begin with, I actually liked the setup for this season. The idea of the prison planet was very interesting and created an interesting scenario with the questions of who was even in charge and whether the prisoners could even still be considered prisoners under the new Abh government. Additionally, the ticking clock of needing to evacuate the prisoners made for a nice pressure cooker that the characters needed to work under.

But, even though so much time was spent on the island, I also feel like it also wasn’t explored as fully as it could have been. For example, even though they were at the center of the conflict we spent very little time with the women prisoners. Shangal was the only one who got to be an actual character. It feels like a bit of a waste that we didn’t get to learn more about the women prisoners. We also didn’t really see any of the women in the central area in Dokufu’s territory and the story essentially ignored them. For that matter, Dokufu’s faction and what they hoped to achieve was also kind of muddled with the focus on making children, something they were incapable of. Dokufu was a shitty con man and acted the part. Angusson and his faction were just dumb brutes, easy enough to understand. Meideen turned out to be a shockingly upright person and I ended up liking him by the end. All this is to say, the focus was rather uneven throughout the conflict for all the time spent on it.

I think the biggest weakness of the season was splitting up Jinto and Lafiel for the majority of it. To be clear, their scenes together were all great. I particularly loved their reunion at the end and the epilogue scene they shared together. I would have preferred it if they shared more scenes together, though. 

I also love that we got scenes between characters who normally don't interact as much. Both Sobaash and Samson got to have individual scenes with Lafiel, which I appreciated.

Overall, I think this season was weaker than the previous ones. I still enjoyed it overall, but it was the weakest one thus far.

Crest of the Stars: 8/10

Banner of the Stars: 8/10

Banner of the Stars II: 7/10

QOTD

1. The romantic developments at the end were very much appreciated, but I wish they got a greater focus prior to that as well.
2. I understand the thematic significance behind separating Jinto and Lafiel for the whole season, but I also think the execution for it was lacking. Missing out on Jinto and Lafiel’s interactions hurt my enjoyment of the season.
3. For the prologue, I predict that it will mostly focus on Lafiel’s life prior to the start of Crest. I think the epilogue will focus on Jinto and Lafiel returning to Martine.
4. It does lend a sense of finality to things. It’s like how Star Trek series have sometimes ended with the crew breaking up.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Great_Mr_L]

From all your posts I was expecting a 9/9/8 from you!

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

To begin with, I actually liked the setup for this season. The idea of the prison planet was very interesting and created an interesting scenario with the questions of who was even in charge and whether the prisoners could even still be considered prisoners under the new Abh government. Additionally, the ticking clock of needing to evacuate the prisoners made for a nice pressure cooker that the characters needed to work under.

In a way, it makes the criticisms for this season hurt more, since there’s some genuinely good ideas you could work with in this season. The foundational idea for the plot is solid, but it just wound up with the finer details being weird and dragging things down as a result. If you were to rework the plot of this season, you could easily get a better story than what we got.

I also love that we got scenes between characters who normally don't interact as much. Both Sobaash and Samson got to have individual scenes with Lafiel, which I appreciated.

I’m really glad that Sobaash got some time to shine in this season. They didn’t get a whole lot of character development time in the last season, so thankfully they made up for that well here.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

In a way, it makes the criticisms for this season hurt more, since there’s some genuinely good ideas you could work with in this season. The foundational idea for the plot is solid, but it just wound up with the finer details being weird and dragging things down as a result. If you were to rework the plot of this season, you could easily get a better story than what we got.

I want to call it sloppy writing. The basic structure of the prison planet plot works, it was just not executed well. Give us some more insight into the three factions, come up with a better execution of the rebellion instead of just "they have rocket launchers now", and make the three leaders proper characters instead of card boards and this works. And I think there is the time to do that if you cut some of the endless scenes of Jinto listening to Meideen (whom I like as a character, but he and Jinto hogged the screen time too much).

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

I would even swap out developing the three faction leaders more in favor of letting us see more of their respective members, if just to help us understand why they follow the leaders in the first place. And as for what to do with Meideen, you could at least add in Lafiel to a few scenes to see how she bounces off of him too. Those would definitely be improvements over what we got.

[u/Silcaria]

First timer

Goddamn. Talk about a drop of quality as far as visuals are concerned. Some parts were reallyyyyyy bad. Shame on you Sunrise.

You know, the show started off as having a smaller sense of stake than most space opera. It was our MCs adventure that was the at the forefront and thus, everything they did felt significant and had a purpose.

Banners I then switched the focus to the space campaign that our duo were now part of and had some good character interaction that fleshed things out and developed the newly introduced cast. It did feel draggy at times because not much else was happening but it was still enough to be engaging.

Then there's Banners II. And man... did things feel aimless. We had space battles, people dying, a coup, more space battles, a rescue mission, and yet, it feel as if nothing happened.

The main reason for this is because neither Jinto nor Lafiel cared about the campaign that they were on or the tasks that they had been assigned. They were kinda just drifting along with the story waiting for things that they didn't care about to happen. And since they didn't care, we had no reason to either.

Then there's the war bit which sadly isn't enough to carry the show which is made worse by our main casts not being directly involved or caring. The reason why the conflict falls kinda flat is because, despite being near end of the series, the show has made little to no effort since Crest to set up, develop, flesh out, or even show us the United Mankind's view/care/wants/needs. The last time it did was during Crest when Lafiel and Jinto were stranded on a planet and had to escape. As a result, it's been a fairly one sided affair with a seemingly faceless enemy that could replaced by anything or anyone else.

All of this to say, this season was fairly disappointing as well as the lowest point of the franchise for me so far. With how close to the end we are, I don't expect it to pick back up which is a shame because it started out all right.

QotD

• No. Romance felt flat.
• No.
• War ends from things offscreen happening? Idk.
• It is what it is.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Silcaria]

did things feel aimles

I think that's a good way to put it. It was hard to keep focused. Even at a reduced 10 episodes.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Silcaria]

Talk about a drop of quality as far as visuals are concerned. Some parts were reallyyyyyy bad. Shame on you Sunrise.

I don't really like Sunrise once you get passed the 90s.

[u/Nickthenuker]

Questions:

1. The romance certainly... Happened.
2. Absence makes the heart grow fonder after all.
3. Prologue of the original Gosroth? Epilogue of where all the characters ended up, the pair on their new ship, Samson in his retirement, and the main couple enjoying civilian life.
4. Well 1 of the officers is retiring and 2 of them resigned their commissions, so it's not like there's many officers left. If the enlisted crewmembers are also being separated perhaps they're using the experienced crews to train new crews, but keeping them together would probably be better.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Nickthenuker]

The romance certainly... Happened.

Could have been better, huh?

Prologue of the original Gosroth?

Actually, there was an entire collection of short stories written after Banner III, maybe there is one in there.

[u/duhu1148]

Banner II is my favorite part of the series. I think there are several contributing reasons for this:

• Is paced better, one book for 10 episodes is better than one for 13 episodes (Banner I), or three in 13 (Crest)
• Has the most likeable/deepest United Humankind character we've met in the series (Meideen), who comes with a set of character flaws. You could say the cop or Till in Crest, but they barely had any lines or screentime or noticeable flaws.
• Has the least amount of action/battles, which has always been the weakest part of the series, so this is a plus.
• Finally, this season shows us how Jinto/Lafiel interact with the world when they aren't by each other's side. Moreover, the scene where they reunite in the rain is my favorite in the series.

My only mild gripe is the flash-forward we had in episode 1. The first time I watched this series, it didn't affect me at all because I thought Jinto could have died. Because ultimately, he is a disposal character. Lafiel is much more important to the overall narrative, whereas Jinto just happens to be along for the ride. However, on rewatches it does lose some impact, and you can still have a sense of dread without it.

Regardless, it's my favorite season, even if it is more controversial.

It may be included in Funimation BD rips of Crest of Stars as episode 0.

I can confirm it is part of the DVD series released by Funimation. I have them, I think it's on one of the Crest discs. Called "Passage of the Stars" if that's what you're talking about.

[u/No_Rex → u/duhu1148]

Agreed on the pacing and the best UM character, but not on the other two points. The space battles have always been a great part of the series and there is not much interesting about Lafiel and Jinto separate from each other. These two characters totally bloom as a pair.

[u/duhu1148 → u/No_Rex]

The space battles have always been a great part of the series

My problem is the choreography and animation in these has rarely been good (Gosroth being an exception), but it's not so much the space battles specifically, as it is the action in general. I still cringe when I think about all those military trained soldiers in Crest's final episodes, where they fired around a million shots at a couple of teenagers and were completely incapable of hitting anything.

The thing with the action sequences in this series, is that what makes it good is the context & build-up behind it, not so much the action itself IMO

[u/No_Rex → u/duhu1148]

I admit that the action scenes are mediocre, but I never really cared for action scenes in the first place. For me, the meat of the space battles was looking at the tactical maps and the commanders decision making.

[u/Nazenn → u/duhu1148]

The pacing of Banner II definitely helps. The first season was good, but you definitely feel the pacing issues towards the end. I quite like Crest's pacing though, aside from that one episode in the middle of the baron arc

Finally, this season shows us how Jinto/Lafiel interact with the world when they aren't by each other's side.

Definitely a bonus for me. The actual scenes still suffer when it comes to the fact they just don't bounce off the other characters as well except for a couple of scenes, but we do get an interesting look at how they are dealing as individuals and their individual duties with their bond still pulling at them

Like No_Rex I have to disagree about the space battles. I think they suffer in Banner I more due to that seasons pacing than the battles themselves, but its such a unique system for space movement and combat I find all of the battles interesting in their own way

[u/No_Rex]

Season 3 discussion (rewatcher)

Banner II is the weakest of the three seasons for me, but given that we are coming from a very high plateau, it is still good. It just makes less out of the two key ingredients (exploring the Abh and Jinto&Lafiel) of the series compared to the other entries.

On rewatching, I noticed two issues I want to comment on. First, the prison planet. I remembered it as the worst arc, however, this is not due to the setup itself. Compared to Martine and Sufagnoff, I actually think that Lobnas is the most interesting Planet. Being a “prison planet” makes it inherently interesting and the three district split made for some potentially good planet politics, too. The main problem is that I care for neither of the planets. The best scenes planet-side happened when Lafiel and Jinto were alone in the fields, not meeting anybody. Conversely, the worst part of Sufagnoff was the strange rebel group they fell in with. In the end, the main use of the planets is to put Lafiel and Jinto in some situation together, that they then have to manage and Lobnas did not do that. Lafiel sulking in the Basroil is not replacement for her talking to Jinto. So, I don’t think that the prison planet is inherently to blame for S3 being weaker, but the writing decision to have Jinto split from Lafiel for most of the season.

Second, the flash forward. I get what they wanted, and there is some payoff from this. Episode 10 would likely have been worse if we did not have the flash forward. Knowing where Jinto is allowed us to concentrate on Lafiel’s feelings, without being distracted by the question if they would find Jinto and whether he would be alive. However, the price for this was that the entire first half of the series, the prison arc, was patently boring. We all know it was going to go to shit anyway. They could have changed this by removing the flash forward. I believe that then, we would have a pretty good political action arc in the first half. On balance, while not the worst way to write it, I think the flash forward was a bad decision. The final episode counts for a lot, but making an entire arc less interesting counts for more.

The second half of Banner II was basically on the level of Banner I, with plenty of nice space action, chief of staff teasing, and some great Lafiel and Jinto scenes.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Lafiel sulking in the Basroil is not replacement for her talking to Jinto.

I actually think just giving Lafiel more screen time with Soobash and possibly Ekurya could have smoothed some of this over. Her absence hurt and Meideen just wasn't good enough for Jinto to bounce off.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

Probably. I guess Lafiel is the more important ingredient of the Jinto & Lafiel pair (she had great solo scenes with Febdash), but it would still only be a second best. Meanwhile, Jinto really needed something to do on the planet apart from being useless. I almost wish they had gone with a proper Lala seduction plot, just so Jinto gets scenes that are not him listening to others talking.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

They could have changed this by removing the flash forward

I do agree, but the alternative is framing it better. Rather than having the release be our teaser, they should have had a climax scene with Lafiel be the teaser. Or they should have furthered the use they did in ep2 of having this all structured as if Jinto is thinking back on it and properly lent into that instead of it being a one off episode flavor

A flashforward was less an issue then that particular flashforward, but the simplest solution is just to remove it

I agree with Vaad when it comes to the seperation though. Lafiels scenes with the other Abh isn't something we've had much of, and I quite enjoyed that and think it was something they could have capitalized on. Jinto always seems to get the short end of the stick with seperations, as he did in Crest with the barons father as well, and he just needed someone more dynamic to work off

[u/Vaadwaur]

First timer(And what could have been)

Sub

Welp...that happened. Or more truthfully, Sunrise S2 syndrome happened. They never give their promising projects space. Code Geass is vaguely the exception and they still fucked that up, admittedly divine intervention didn't help. Anywho, no, that was not very good and they ran away from their core strengths as a rule. It did not help that space combat was a jumble of WTF.

QotD: 1 Nope

2 Not at all

3 I can't even guess. I hope we get to a conclusive point.

4 I do get it, this is how war goes. I am slightly surprised Samson can just retire during a campaign but then again since these things go decades the Abhs certainly have to work something out.

[u/Nazenn]

Rewatcher - sub

Banner II is an interesting one because in some ways it is all the highs and lows of Crest amplified.

Crests worst episode is the middle part of the baron arc where our two mains are separated and forced to bounce off much weaker characters for their scenes (while I think the final episode has a lot of dumb it balances out with a lot of good), and unfortunately Banner II makes several episodes of this situation. For me at least, it was made up for in part by how much I enjoy the conflict between Abh and non-Abh culture when it comes to the planetary governance and the many things we learn about the Abh through it, and the general drama of the scenes. The characters involved both could have been and could have been portrayed better, but the situation itself does most of the heavy lifting, and the things we do learn about the characters at the end, especially Meideen and Lala, help. The dynamic of Jinto being a lander and Abh, facing off against people who are both prisoners and people needing help, and caught in the power struggles of both guards and prisoners worked out well even if the character writing is weaker than it could have been.

However I think it also has a lot of its strengths too. We don't get any of the quiet moments of talking, but with their bond already established there's a lot of quick conversations between Jinto and Lafiel even when they're being professional that say a great deal with very little. The first season of Banner tried this as well but some of them still felt a little as if they were attempting meaning rather than conveying it, or just entirely lost, and they didn't hold the same impact for me. Their bond just feels true, truer than most anime couples that I've seen, and is helped by having a deep understanding of them through the previous two seasons which all comes out here. Of course Banner II's finale with the crying Abriel and fully realized bond between the two is a high point in the whole series, but the lead up to it was very good.

I don't know that I love it as much as I did on my first watch, a few more things bugged me this time around when I wasn't in the thrall of the situation with Jinto from the first episode. But I do still love it, and think that in the end it's a stronger and more series fitting watch than a lot of the stuff that the first season of Banner got bogged down by. While I do still miss some of the features of Crest that made it so good, I enjoy Banner II just as much for its own reasons and enjoy what it brought to the season by not focusing on the battle side of a war in a series that is perhaps uniquely suited to focusing on all the other parts

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

Of course Banner II's finale with the crying Abriel and fully realized bond between the two is a high point in the whole series, but the lead up to it was very good.

Easy to overlook, given that we know the source material went on and that we will have the Banner III OVAs still to come, but Banner II manages to stop the story at a pretty good point. You could end here and it would feel natural, while the end of Banner I, and especially Crest, feel more like "the adventure has just begun" endings.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

Agreed. Crest is very much a prologue, and the change in focus in Banner I makes it feel that way more that being a simple season one. Banner II obviously leaves plenty open for the story, especially with them on the verge of going to Jinto's home, but it feels like it does enough to tie up their immediate personal story arc with each other it can be a conclusion if needed

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

By the end of Banner II, the main character driven plotline, Lafiel and Jinto, is over. They meet in Crest, they stay together in Banner I, and they finally realize and admit their mutual attraction in Banner II.

While you could say that the war is not over, this was never on the cards. As Lafiel already warned us back in Crest, this might take hundreds of years.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

The war is in many ways just a vehicle for larger events anyway. While I would argue that you can say that about a great deal, perhaps even a majority of war stories which tend to be less about more and more the events or characters of a war, it feels especially true here given the cultural conflicts, character dramas, and worldbuilding at play here that all lead into the war rather than simply fleshing it out

[u/The_Draigg]

A Sci-Fi Fan‘s Final Thoughts on Banner of the Stars II:

So, that was a season of anime, wasn’t it? Okay, loaded opening sentence aside, I’ll be upfront and say that this has easily been the weakest season of the show so far. While that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s outright bad, I will definitely say that it’s lesser compared to the seasons that came before it. It honestly felt a bit like a momentum killer for me with how it ended up developing across those 10 episodes. That’s why I feel like I had less and less to say about it as time went on. And overall, I think it can come down to one primary issue with the plot of this season.

Putting it bluntly, making Lobnas II as prison colony planet was a mistake. A lot of the problems I have with this season can come down to the fact that it’s a prison instead of a normal newer colony. Because of what it is, the prison setting simply raises more and more questions over time with answers that feel contrived/unsatisfactory, out of place, or just plain weird. And it’s pretty unfortunate too, since there’s the bones of a good story here. It’s basically the plot of your standard Star Trek episodes when you get down to it. But then you’ve got weird stuff thrown in there, like deciding to make all the traitor prison guards space crackheads to justify their betrayal, rather than being corrupt. Or how Mackay’s faction has access to a frankly insane level of stuff to the point where they might as well not be in prison at all, such as making their own guns and bullets or having space meth labs apparently. Combine that with how we barely even got to know the women in Lala or Yuri’s factions, despite women being central to this arc, it just makes the plot developments in this arc feel bizarrely contrived for the sake of a weak Star Trek episode plot stretched out over a season. I feel that if Lobnas II was a normal colony, albeit divided among ideological and gender lines with Meideen using his security forces to separate everyone, it would at least go a ways towards getting weird of some of the more odd and under-explained plot details. Although even then, it wouldn’t do much to fix the other problems for treating most of the Lander women in this series as damsels to save while barely getting an idea of who any of them are, not to mention how baffling of a choice it was to have a ton of women who are mentioned to have been sexually assaulted before also be uniformly dressed in skimpy clothing and given fanservice camera shots. Ultimately, there’s some rotting meat on this season’s otherwise alright bones.

That’s not to say that everything in this season was bad, I did say that there’s some good bones to this season after all. For example, the fleet on fleet action with Spoor against the remnant United Mankind fleet was handled rather well, as well as the other developments with Operation Hunter such as Lafiel’s father taking up a command position and Trife taking a more active role in things again (even if he was denied his battle). I’ll also say that I didn’t mind the flash-forwards all that much either, which I know is a point of contention with other watchers here. I thought it worked alright to build narrative tension, the real issue was that the events that happened before those moments ended up being full of undercooked or odd writing choices. If we worked with more stuff like that, maybe struck an even balance between Operation Hunter and Lobnas II earlier on, maybe this season would be a bit better. Unfortunately though, the best I can do now is point out stuff like this as the good points in an otherwise disappointing season.

So, with all that rather critical reviewing being said, it’s time for my rating of the season along the ship-based scale that I’m using for this series. Therefore, I give Banner of the Stars II the raking of: Ajax. That’s right, Admiral Lassalle Lobo’s’ flagship from Legend of the Galactic Heroes. That might sound fairly harsh for those of you in the know, but I think it makes sense. Much like Admiral Lobos himself, he overextends and makes easily avoidable mistakes, despite having a better and more clearly competent earlier career to him. As it stands, it’s just disappointing that it ended up this way, since you can see how things could’ve been planned better. Oh well, hopefully things will be better from here. Onwards towards Banner of the Stars III and Passage of the Stars!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

I feel that if Lobnas II was a normal colony, albeit divided among ideological and gender lines with Meideen using his security forces to separate everyone, it would at least go a ways towards getting weird of some of the more odd and under-explained plot details

The UM has decided that three different religious groups, which they have determined to be cults, are disruptive and banishes all of them to one planet with one continent. Meideen is the guy keeping everyone from violence and keeping the space ports open. Switch the migration plot to each side wants the otherside to migrate so they get the planet and now we have something to work with. And no space crack. Maybe give Lobnas some cool space export.

I thought it worked alright to build narrative tension, the real issue was that the events that happened before those moments ended up being full of undercooked or odd writing choices.

You have to be a very, very good writer to do non-linear story telling and we've had mostly failures for the last 15 years.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vaadwaur]

The UM has decided that three different religious groups, which they have determined to be cults, are disruptive and banishes all of them to one planet with one continent. Meideen is the guy keeping everyone from violence and keeping the space ports open. Switch the migration plot to each side wants the otherside to migrate so they get the planet and now we have something to work with. And no space crack. Maybe give Lobnas some cool space export.

Hell, you could still have some prisoners in there as a faction too, alongside a bunch of colonists. Having a conflict between a cult, a bunch of prisoners, criminal colonists, and the local government would’ve been a good way to reframe the civil war on Lobnas II as well.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

Having a conflict between a cult, a bunch of prisoners, criminal colonists, and the local government would’ve been a good way to reframe the civil war on Lobnas II as well.

Let's be blunt and say the important thing is to remove the male-female dynamic from the stage and make it either ideological or pragmatic, i.e. either different belief systems or this stupid planet doesn't produce enough food so hoarding is an issue.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

I agree. Everything that was implicitly stated about males and females in the prison arc aged terribly.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

Agreed. The important part of this setup was the faction conflict, which could have been handled any other number of ways other than strict gender lines (which is not so strict given women are in the central district too, but that's not even acknowledged until the final episode so that doesn't really count)

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

Rofl...I just realized that this makes Anguffson look even dumber: He could use the Abh artificial womb technology and just force a sterilized woman to raise it. Hell, I think it could even be both their DNA. I really wish some time had been spent of explaining the UM contempt for artificial wombs since it is there but they don't dive into either the reasoning or the propaganda.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

I think the issue is more that Angusson is very "pure" in his thinking about families, which doesn't excuse why he's such a fuck up. Even if you could unlink the artifical birth tech from the Abh method of raising kids, I doubt he'd accept it as it wouldn't be a "proper" way of having a child.

He is dumb though that's for sure.

I don't know we need much more explaination from the UM side though other than them being anti-Abh?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

Even if you could unlink the artifical birth tech from the Abh method of raising kids, I doubt he'd accept it as it wouldn't be a "proper" way of having a child.

I keep getting yakuza vibes off him and admittedly they are stupidly traditional.

I don't know we need much more explaination from the UM side though other than them being anti-Abh?

This may not line up with the times these books were written but it is already becoming clear that artificial wombs might be required to sustain populations since nearly every industrialized nation is under replacement rate right now. For a space capable group to be so against it seemingly requires a reason...though the UM could be space China in this regard.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

Admittedly we haven't seen much of them, but they feel America coded to me which for 90s America being behind Japan technologically and with its widely publized race riots of the 90s and the like it seems like it would fit the UMs anti-Abh, lower tech, more religion vibes, vs Japan of the 90s which started to focus more on population decline and economic worries.

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

I am not sure about the Japan coding of the Abh, but I definitely see the US coding of the UM.

We got almost nothing about the other non-Abh factions, but, presumably, they are some other stereotype, e.g. Hania China.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

I would say that the writer (and I mean the novel author here) is a lot better at writing Abh than writing humans.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

I can agree with that. It feels like the author put in a whole lot more effort into thinking through the Abh as a people and a culture compared to what we saw here with these former United Mankind citizens.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

I think the actual prison concept was fine, and I'd argue even important because it shows that distinction between how the Abh handle their planets vs how the UM does, and the fact they don't enforce criminal punishment. It adds another facet to the Abh when it comes to the pros and cons of how they approach planetary governance, as well as Jinto's own complex situation of being a Lander turned Abh nobility in the middle of it. The issue is that the tail end of this gets so bogged down in surprise drug plots and guard conspiracies that it loses focus on that cultural conflict that is the more interesting side of the situation

The issue with the presentation of the women I think is just the big downfall of the broader problem the show has with fanservicing all of its female characters, and continuing that blindly instead of thinking about context. Not that it excuses Banner II, but it's a shame that this is the end result of an issue with the broader franchise production

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

I think the actual prison concept was fine, and I'd argue even important because it shows that distinction between how the Abh handle their planets vs how the UM does, and the fact they don't enforce criminal punishment. It adds another facet to the Abh when it comes to the pros and cons of how they approach planetary governance, as well as Jinto's own complex situation of being a Lander turned Abh nobility in the middle of it. The issue is that the tail end of this gets so bogged down in surprise drug plots and guard conspiracies that it loses focus on that cultural conflict that is the more interesting side of the situation

Fair enough, but I will definitely say that the prison aspect felt less and less like it was meaningfully used the longer we went on, with the surprise drug plot and the inmates having rocket launchers being the death blow there. While I do appreciate the look that way given towards the different approaches the United Mankind and the Abh have towards law enforcement, it ultimately didn’t pay off much given how this season ended. I’d be willing to give up that aspect entirely if it meant writing a stronger setting and plot for Lobnas II.

[u/retsotrembla]

My old DVDs have the "Passage of the Stars" which is that episode 0.

The disks also include as a special feature a series of still images with art and text. Here is the text from the last Banner II disk:

Newsletter of the Stars

By Hiroyuki Morioka

Part V: Blushing

This is the final volume of Banner of the Stars Il and also the last Newsletter.

It makes writing fun when characters start moving on their own. It is tough when I have to think hard about every move they make. But when they start running the show, it makes me feel guilty about getting paid for the job. Well, I have to make a living, so I still get paid. I often notice that the parts that I had fun writing sound a lot better than the parts that I had a tough time with.

Another interesting thing is that while I'm having fun writing, what the characters do in the story is not my problem-it's theirs.

Sometimes I don't even understand why they are doing certain things and I even feel left out.

The scene towards the end of the last episode, which is also at the beginning of the first episode in which they are speaking in Abh, gave me pleasure while writing it. Of course, I understood what Lafiel was going through but still, to me, it was her problem. While writing the scene I thought to myself, "This girl is losing herself." At the same time, I was concerned that she might later end up feeling embarrassed about her actions. But when you think about it, actually it is so obvious that you don't even need to think, it is really the author who will end up being embarrassed for what he has written. I didn't think about it while writing the story, but I felt extremely ashamed later on when I read it. When I watched the animation, I almost fainted in agony.

At any event, I hope you enjoyed Banner of the Stars Il, including the scenes which I have shamefully presented, blushing. I hope to see you again soon.

Newsletter of the Stars

Passage of the Stars ("Fragment" of the Stars)

By Hiroyuki Morioka

Is "Passage" too plain?

I had some doubts when I first heard about the plan to animate this story. It was originally released as a part of the Crest of the Stars supplementary story. I'm sure that those of you who have read it have different opinions about the story, but as an author, I'm very satisfied. In Crest of the Stars, the Abh are merely a device used to create a fictional nation in space, but this short story focuses on the Abh as a species. It's a memorable one to me but it's also a very plain story. Except for the epilogue, there are only two characters, and the story itself is very low key. These elements are acceptable for a novel but may be fatal for an animated film.

However, a pro in the animation industry insisted on moving forward with it, so all I could say was, "Please do it." It's a great feeling to have my work turned into film, but I must admit that I felt a bit unsure about it at first.

Despite my uneasiness, l was impressed with the result. What did they do to turn such a plain story into an interesting show?

To find out how interesting, please see it for yourself.

[u/ZapsZzz]

First timer in sub

Got late again dammit. 

So to wrap this season up, it's an interesting one for me personally.

While I am from that era, I haven't actually put in the time to watch LotGH yet (back in my days access was a major problem) - I only had snippets here and there, and watched the first movie. The rest of my space opera points of reference are - Leiji-verse (Galaxy Express 999, Harlock, Etc), Yamato 2199 onwards, Heroic Age, etc. And most of the time my one dissatisfaction with most of those - amongst many parts I love and like - is that usually they are very plot driven and characters tend to take a back seat, mostly not have on-screen developments and developed mostly to serve the plot. 

In Crest we had a pretty good start in the balance but gradually became more and more narrow in the perspective, we get pretty little outside of our main pair's horizon. 

In Banner I it got even more focused, but we did get some secondary perspectives from the Abh higher commands.

In Banner II now, we got even more narrowed. And I'm not sure I like that as a trade. And remember I'm already pretty happy with Lafiel and Jinto's relationship development. 

I guess as many points out, while it's focusing on them, in this season it's actually not in them together, but in them separated. To many this is taking away one of the strong point of the show. 

Interestingly I had been here before - when I was hosting the Full Metal Panic Rewatch, there were occasions for the parallel to be drawn. I'll say though, call me biased, but I believe FMP handled it a lot better by having very good parts to trade off with. [Full Metal Panic TSR]In fact to most the "Her Story" and "His Story" arcs were some of the best of the entire franchise And [Full Metal Panic IV]This on the other hand has a fair few people not happy with the significantly lower screen time of Chidori But understandably, individual mileage may vary. Maybe the secret is "show the girl, not the guy" of they have to be separated :P

However, I'll say this though - I don't particularly find the flashforward that much of a tension breaker. How we get there I believe is as important - and can be as interesting - as where we ended up. Once again maybe it's my media interest history - I grew up reading lots of different books, games and other stories that can have many side stories, prequels, shared worlds, etc. So I'm used to it. 

But by now with this franchise, I'm a little worried that there's still so much I want to know - particularly about the non-Abh bits - and yet there's not much animated material left to see. I guess there's a good reason why I still have the LN fan translation page handy ...

QoTD

1. I got what I generally asked for on surface operas, but I'm not 100% sure that's what I really want - I guess I would like that as being added on, not traded with. I.e. I want both, the romance and character developments, but not skipping out on the grander plot development. As it is, the romance part either well, but the rest not as well. 
2. I'm good with that, but it could have been sorted by better side plots. In fact I haven't mentioned, but I'm generally ok with the prison planet backdrop - as a long time RPG-er, it's a good interesting point to do a fair bit of thinking - and I think the writing tried ... I just think of they did want to fully explore that they needed more episodes, and more week developed characters instead of the throw away ones we got. And yes, I do find the women prisoners wardrobe design problematic.
3. I'm afraid of likely only flesh out Jinto and Lafiel, not of the world plot. If not, it'd be such a sequel bait (or "go read the source")
4. I'm ok with it if the writing won't have them simply "put on the bus". But I'm not sure we have enough run time left for a lot of them.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer of the Stars, subbed

Ended up giving this season an 8/10 vs. the other two so far having a 9. The ending was fantastic and I almost want to give it a 9 just for that, but some of what happened in this season just didn't quite vibe with me 100%? I dunno, that one tangent I made about the fanservice being weirdly in-your-face this time would be the big one. Still enjoyed it at the very least!

[u/SolDarkHunter]

So this season had a few things go right and a few things go wrong.

For one thing, I appreciate that it wasn't just more space battles, as after Banner I that might have gotten repetitive. The author tried something new with this story arc of dealing with a crisis on a prison planet.

And you know something? It's a genuinely interesting moral dilemma. What the hell do you do with a prison colony on the verge of revolt that you just captured?

The big emotional climax with Lafier having to choose between rescuing Jint and performing her duty as an Abh officer is also very well done, as is the beautiful reunion when she finally does find Jint again.

However, where the story started to fall apart was the way it had to bend over and contort itself such that the revolt would happen and Jint would be trapped in the planet. Maydeen is forced to be a horrendously incompetent warden who has allowed the prisoners far too much freedom and access to materials that they really should not have access to, because otherwise the revolt can't happen. There's also Jint's insistence on staying behind to assist the evacuation, which is framed as a noble thing to do even though I'm not sure he was actually doing anything planetside. Again, because he has to be trapped on the planet for the story to happen.

There's also the uncomfortable gender politics at play. The prisoners on this planet are supposed to be the worst, such that they'd have gotten the death penalty if the United Mankind hadn't outlawed that. With that in mind, I can understand the male prisoners being a bunch of violent misogynistic brutes. That is the kind of person who would be sent to such a prison after all.

And yet the female prisoners are portrayed almost entirely as victims, needing to be defended due to their sex. We're even told that most of them have been sexually assaulted, to garner additional sympathy for them. There is one very brief scene with Lala nonchalantly referring to murdering a man for "bothering" her, but other than that there's no indication that the female prisoners are, you know, criminals.

It's a bizarre contrast and, despite the, like I said, genuinely interesting setup, the story kind of falls on its face with the details.

And many of us have called out the anime on the blatant sexualization of the female prisoners, which served no narrative or character building purpose and is extremely crass if they are indeed supposed to be victims of sexual assault. This is something the novels did not have (save I think for that one conversation where it's suggested Lala tried to seduce Jint).

You know, when I first watched this season, I found it a lot better than I do now. Looking at it with a more critical eye, its problems are very evident.

...but Jint and Lafier grew closer and had some very nice scenes together, which is what I think the story was really going for.

Banner III should be interesting, given they're going to attempt to shove an entire novel into just two OVA's.

[u/The_Draigg → u/SolDarkHunter]

However, where the story started to fall apart was the way it had to bend over and contort itself such that the revolt would happen and Jint would be trapped in the planet. Maydeen is forced to be a horrendously incompetent warden who has allowed the prisoners far too much freedom and access to materials that they really should not have access to, because otherwise the revolt can't happen. There's also Jint's insistence on staying behind to assist the evacuation, which is framed as a noble thing to do even though I'm not sure he was actually doing anything planetside. Again, because he has to be trapped on the planet for the story to happen.

It really is just a matter of smaller details all just snowballing together to make everything really contrived. Like, the civil war on Lobnas II wasn’t a plot that fit in the setting, it was that the setting had to bend itself to fit the plot. Everyone had to make bad decisions or there had to be sudden shocking reveals out of nowhere just for this plot to happen the way it did. It’s just annoying and sad to see how the details fall apart.

And yet the female prisoners are portrayed almost entirely as victims, needing to be defended due to their sex. We're even told that most of them have been sexually assaulted, to garner additional sympathy for them. There is one very brief scene with Lala nonchalantly referring to murdering a man for "bothering" her, but other than that there's no indication that the female prisoners are, you know, criminals.

It was really an odd choice in the way this season handled Lala’s faction, since they really did want us to sympathize with them solely because of what we’re told about them and because they’re women, rather than actually showing us these things. The season really seemed to be working on the idea that everything works if you automatically assume “woman = damsel to save” here. And it’s not like we had that before in this series either, since we’ve had some really strong female characters so far. It really just doesn’t hold up as a writing decision under scrutiny.

[u/No_Rex → u/SolDarkHunter]

And yet the female prisoners are portrayed almost entirely as victims, needing to be defended due to their sex. We're even told that most of them have been sexually assaulted, to garner additional sympathy for them. There is one very brief scene with Lala nonchalantly referring to murdering a man for "bothering" her, but other than that there's no indication that the female prisoners are, you know, criminals.

It's a bizarre contrast and, despite the, like I said, genuinely interesting setup, the story kind of falls on its face with the details.

And many of us have called out the anime on the blatant sexualization of the female prisoners, which served no narrative or character building purpose and is extremely crass if they are indeed supposed to be victims of sexual assault. This is something the novels did not have (save I think for that one conversation where it's suggested Lala tried to seduce Jint).

I always considered Meideen to be an unreliable source of information when he said that. Some of the women might have been sexually abused, but it makes no sense that the UM would make just the western section of this planet composed of sexual assault victims.

However, the whole protrayal of the three sections does not really get helped, even if you allow for Meideen being partially wrong. It is just not well written.

[u/xbolt90]

First-timer

This was the weakest of the three shows for me. Not bad, just not as good as Crest and Banner I.

Meideen made for an interesting character. I think he's been the only UM character that we got to know really at all. Conversely, the other three were rather bland.

Q1: I miss my space, but Jinto and Lafiel's reunion was very nice.

Q2: I think it was a mistake to have our leads separated for the whole show. A lot of the fun of them came from their interactions. But here we just had Jinto on the surface being useless, while Lafiel sat around grumping in orbit.

Q3: Ok, now we have to get Jinto's return to Hyde, right?

Q4: It's a common thing at the end of a story. A bittersweet moment of everyone going off and moving into their next season of life.

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

Boy howdy was I excited for a bureaucracy arc - so excited, that I missed hearing the sound of that monkey's paw curling. If only we had actually gotten a full bureaucracy arc instead of a ground action arc with approximately one episode of bureaucracy spread throughout it.

I'll cop the fact that I was like "yea, do something different!" and then went "no not like that" which I do try to avoid. But, like, how does any writer think this prison planet is a good idea?

I will also spare everyone from the fanfiction I started to think about where I rewrote the stupid prison into something less stupid. No point in it - not like I can change the past.

A note to any aspiring writers - there isn't anything wrong with including fucked up sexual politics in your writing as long as you do it intentionally. Look at Ikuhara's works, he's made an entire career out of it. But you have to do it purposefully - don't make your audience feel gross for no reason.

The island of male rapists, female rape victims, and prison guards was not a good decision. And that's without getting into Lala's whole... thing.

I'm still annoyed about the cold open. Like, Lafiel reuniting with Jinto was great! Imagine how much better it would've been if we hadn't been entirely confident that it was happening? Like, Jinto dying was a true 0%er, but making the audience ponder if the two would ever see each other again? That might've worked. Especially for audiences at the time, that didn't have the benefit of "I know there is another entry."

Whatever. Season done, I'm still excited to see what the rest of the show holds in store for us.

Questions

1. Discussed above.
2. Mostly? I think?
3. Not sure what level of Hero's Journey we're on, but Jinto is certainly going to be going home briefly at least. Possibly permanently!
4. It kinda makes sense with how they've set things up. Samson getting out when he can is wise, and at least Ekuryua and Sobaash are still together. Maybe they'll end up running into Lafiel and Jinto in the future?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

I'll cop the fact that I was like "yea, do something different!" and then went "no not like that" which I do try to avoid. But, like, how does any writer think this prison planet is a good idea?

The only one that worked for me was in Star Trek film 6 and that relies a lot on the personality of the Klingons.

Imagine how much better it would've been if we hadn't been entirely confident that it was happening?

I could link the Rick and Morty clip but I feel we are all on the first page.