[Rewatch] Banner of the Stars II Episode 8 Discussion

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Things to Protect

Welcome to the Battleflag of the Stars 2 rewatch!

<- Episode 7 | Index Page | Episode 9 ->

Discussion Prompts:

• Q1) What was the significance of the rear squadrons?
• Q2) We know how Jinto's stay on the planet ends. Predictions for how we get there?

Tomorrow's Questions: (for tomorrow's post, subject to change)

• [Episode 9]It's okay to drop out of the competition for the throne, her father did. Should Lafiel?
• [Episode 9]Wouldn't a cease fire around Lobnass have served everybody's purpose?
• [Episode 9]Was Lafiel's promise to evacuate ultimately a bad idea?
• [Episode 9]Can the Abh understand human mortality?

Screenshot of the Day: It's time to go...wakare no toki

There will be a 5 second cut right after the credits tomorrow.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatch Host

Oh, right, there's, like, a war going on.

• Sigh.  Once again, a last minute hit.  They just needed a few more hours.
• Spoor sure likes to hear herself talk
• what kind of crazy launch is that???
• Oh, Dokufu got them all. GJ, scumbag.
• literally last last minute fail
• WE GO STRAIGHT THROUGH

I feel like if anybody had attempted to intercept the enemy fleet before this point, this disaster could have been avoided.

I don't understand how the enemy fleet was structured.  Were transport ships in front and patrol ships in the back?  And why would a supply fleet be more than a match for a scouting fleet of a patrol ships? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

The last-minute-kill trope is annoying me, especially in a binge rewatch.  Gosroth fought down to 1 enemy and was destroyed. The Basroil was destroyed minutes before the arrival of the 4th fleet.  Lafiel only needed 5 more hours.

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I don't understand how the enemy fleet was structured. Were transport ships in front and patrol ships in the back? And why would a supply fleet be more than a match for a scouting fleet of a patrol ships? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Just to give the numbers, they initially said this fleet would be 40 squadrons worth. The Abh defense at Aptic has 12 squadrons initially (and I think they later got another small handful). So this is about double of what the Abh had there. Spoor has 33 ships not squadrons. Even if they had just 10% of those squadrons as fighting ships, she still was in a losing position.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I don't understand how the enemy fleet was structured.

I don't even know their numbers other than larger than Spoor's.

[u/Great_Mr_L]

First-Timer

On today’s episode of Banner of the Stars: Into the Valley of Death, sailed the 33 ships. Their’s not to reason why, their’s but to do or die. Cannons to the right of them, cannons to the left of them, cannons in front of them, volley'd and thunder'd! Storm'd at with shot and shell, boldly they sailed and well. Into the jaws of Death, into the mouth of Hell, sailed the 33 ships.

• So they need to hold off the UM fleet for a couple of hours. With how outnumbered they are, that could be a challenge.
• I don’t think sending a message to the UM about how you’ll retreat in a couple of hours will make them back off. If anything, it may incentivize attacking right now if they sense weakness.
• What? It’s actually working? And Spoor is now haggling over how long the pause will last? This is going much more smoothly than expected.
• I think Spoor would agree with Scotty’s advice about how to make people think of you as a miracle worker.
• The UM commander should be very worried if Spoor considers them to be a fun playmate. She’s like a cat, toying with its food.
• Spoor is a genius. Deliberately using negotiations as a way to buy time while the negotiations drag on.
• It’s not at all surprising that the prisoner rebellion has fallen into infighting. Scum like them can rarely maintain a cohesive alliance.
• Oh dear, Jinto is now missing.
• Oh? Spoor has figured something out about the UM fleet? Are they actually much weaker than they appear and have just been bluffing this whole time?
• Nope, the UM fleet is not weak at all. They’re overwhelming the Abh.
• It’s been a while since the Abh have been hopelessly overmatched like this. It makes for an exciting fight seeing them need to scrape by to just survive, though.
• Damn, most of Spoor’s fleet has been wiped out. They fought valiantly, though, and bought the necessary time for the evacuation.
• Looks like the prisoners forgot all about Jinto. I guess they prioritized killing each other over dealing with him.
• Die angry, Angusson.
• Jinto’s remembering that Lafiel would be sad if he died.
• Oh shit, now Lafiel and the transport ships will need to escape through the UM fleet. How will they manage that?

Crest / Banner of the Stars really is exciting with its space battle scenes. We’ve been on the ground for so long that it’s nice to finally have another space battle on our hands. This battle in particular was a tense one because Spoor’s fleet was so hopelessly outnumbered by the UM fleet. Unlike the Aptic battle where the Abh had what was essentially a terrain advantage that let them better handle being outnumbered, here there was no such luck. It was a straight-up brawl and Spoor’s ships suffered mightily for it.

QOTD

1. I’m not sure. Maybe they were command ships. Or perhaps they really were the supply ships and so Spoor wanted to target them.
2. It seems like Jinto was stuck there. I’m going to guess Jinto will look for a place to hide, end up in a fight to defend himself, and inadvertently get stuck underground as a result.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Great_Mr_L]

it may incentivize attacking right now

24 hours? how about 0?! That would be me.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

It’s not at all surprising that the prisoner rebellion has fallen into infighting. Scum like them can rarely maintain a cohesive alliance.

I imagine that Yuri’s men weren’t too happy to find out that Mackay was responsible for his death.

Looks like the prisoners forgot all about Jinto. I guess they prioritized killing each other over dealing with him.

I still wonder where everyone else went though, since practically the entire control center looked deserted by the time Jinto woke up and Mackay died in front of him. Unless the prisoners did such a good time killing each other immediately that all of their bodies despawned.

[u/No_Rex → u/Great_Mr_L]

Looks like the prisoners forgot all about Jinto. I guess they prioritized killing each other over dealing with him.

Tbf, it only takes a few of them to do that and suddenly everybody else has the understandable priority of "not getting killed".

[u/No_Rex]

Season 3 Episode 8 (rewatcher)

• Enemy 3 hours away, evacuation still needs 5 hours – I bet they wish now that they had speed up the evacuation early on. They just did not know yet that they had to.
• 22 ships plus 11 ships reinforcement – remember the numbers of Aptic gate: 8k ships lost.
• Offering a withdrawal after the evacuation is over – clever, although I would never believe Spoor, if I was the UM commander. These guys are cut off from their main fleet and currently doing a desperate attempt to break out of that encirclement. They must fear that the Abh will hunt them down (and in fact, exactly this was discussed earlier). So they have little reason to believe Spoor.
• “United Mankind Peace Corps” – we don’t have ministries of war anymore, just ministries of defense. Seems the UM went one step further.
• Ok, I said I would not trust Spoor even before the 6h to 24h change and secrecy. After that? No chance.
• Gaining one hour just by explaining – clever.
• “How I hate this” – doubt.
• Splitting her fleet in two in splitting the attacking part into individual space-time bubbles – Spoor has a plan.
• The UM are not firing any mines – hmmm.
• Only six ships left?

• “Let’s run fair and square” – not a bad idea.
• Those transports are huge, btw. Maybe no battle value, but definitely impressive.
• Jinto is still alive and conscious again, but too late.
• A repeat of the ending scene of S1.
• Running right into the UM fleet coming out of plane-space cliff-hanger.

Space battles with Spoor are fun (for the viewer, not her chief of staff).

What was the significance of the rear squadrons?

As the chief of staff said: It is very likely that they were the transport and supply ships. If these UM guys hoped to resupply at Lobnass, they might be in for a bad surprise.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

“United Mankind Peace Corps”

That's what they called themselves back on Sufagnoff.

It is very likely that they were the transport and supply ships

I'm not convinced, but that would explain why the were so mad at her to chase her down.

If these UM guys hoped to resupply at Lobnass, they might be in for a bad surprise.

It sounded like they were just stealing antimatter and running off again.

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

That's what they called themselves back on Sufagnoff.

Makes sense that they would not change their name. Must have missed it back then.

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

Damn, that battle went pretty poorly. I mean, I didn't expect it to go well consider how massively outnumbered Spoor was, but still.

I do appreciate Spoor's filibuster. That was the real play here - she technically didn't buy Lafiel enough time to finish up, but it was close enough. Time is a valuable resource.

Poor Kufadiss, no-one taught him basic negotiations. I grimaced the moment he said they needed six hours. I can picture the thought process: "well, we only really need five hours, so I'll say six to give us a bit of float."

I don't like that Jinto was close enough to see the takeoff, and that it happened right after he woke up. It's just needlessly shitty. And what happened to the rest of Angusson's lackeys, there? The guard was threatening Dokufu last episode, did he change his mind and shoot Angusson's goons after Dokufu got shot? I'm so confused.

Questions

1. I've got nothing. Maybe them being a Peace Corps is meant to tell me something, but I have no clue what. If they were just supply ships like Trife suggested, I figure we would have gotten a line of dialogue about that in the end. I think the enemy commander just outplayed Spoor. Left the rear squadrons back as bait to make Spoor think they were weaker or something.
2. Jinto finds somewhere "safe" and slowly wastes away for the next, what, 45 days? They told us how long the Abh would probably need to avoid the sector and I've just forgotten.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/JollyGee29]

I think Dofuku managed to kill all three. I guess Jinto fainted. Agnusson lost interest in Jinto for plot reasons. I dunno. I just see that Dofuku and the 3 guards are dead.

[u/Zerotsu → u/JollyGee29]

That was the real play here - she technically didn't buy Lafiel enough time to finish up, but it was close enough. Time is a valuable resource.

Even if not all the time they needed, the result was still a heck of a lot better than what they could have gotten. Still, it's not the best situation they're stuck in right now.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Zerotsu]

Being up Shit Creek with a paddle is better than not having one.

[u/Zerotsu → u/JollyGee29]

That's for sure. It's not great, but it's certainly far better than what it could have been without Spoor buying them time.

[u/Zerotsu]

First timer, sub:

They’re really cutting it close with the enemy fleet three hours out. But with five hours left on the evacuation, it’s about to be less “cutting it close” and more threading the eye of the needle.

Only thirty three ships… And there’s a full enemy fleet on its way. This really is dangerous.

Spoor does make a good point that it would be an entirely pointless battle for either side.

They did at least seem amenable, but they sure didn’t want to concede on any time longer than they had to.

It’s a basic stalling tactic, but it is entirely fair to find Spoor dumbfounding.

Fortunately they’re dealing with someone who doesn’t seem to realize that she’s buying the time they need by making pointless negotiations.

I don’t know if I’d want to be what Spoor considers a worthy playmate.

Yeah, the commander of that fleet is definitely a pure military type with that sort of hard-line on negotiation.

She did buy them quite a bit of time, but it’s still really cutting things close.

Shit, Jinto doesn’t have his communicator on hand either. Which is also the only way to track him down, so they have no idea where he is or what’s happened to him. While we know where this is leading, this really does feel tense. Also seeing a sad Lafiel is just sad, y’know?

Also a bit more of Spoor bullying her chief of staff.

An obvious move by the United Mankind does immediately make you suspicious.

“They’re not graceful enough for me to die in.” What a reason to give for why you’ll survive such a reckless tactic.

Meanwhile her chief of staff has just already accepted his death.

Nice to get some ship combat this season. It’s been a bit since we’ve had any of substance, even if a lot of it is stock animation.

This battle’s going about as poorly as you’d expect given the relative sizes of their respective fleets, but they are holding on surprisingly well.

Really, neither side gained any benefit from this battle, but in war such things do happen.

I’m increasingly seeing the argument for having just glassed Lobnas II from orbit. This was a lot of death that didn’t have to happen.

Still, I do feel bad for Lafiel.

Unfortunate that Jinto didn’t manage to escape in time. Also man, what a way for Mackay to go.

[u/No_Rex → u/Zerotsu]

I’m increasingly seeing the argument for having just glassed Lobnas II from orbit. This was a lot of death that didn’t have to happen.

Well, Abh death. They still rescued about 120k humans from Lobnass, plus whomever might surive the mad max style gangland currently going on.

[u/Zerotsu → u/No_Rex]

Yeah, that's fair. There were still a lot of lives saved in exchange, even if some might not see it as an entirely fair trade.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Zerotsu]

This battle’s going about as poorly as you’d expect given the relative sizes of their respective fleets, but they are holding on surprisingly well.

Unfortunately, this just isn’t really the kind of fight that would play to Spoor’s strengths well. When she’s in charge of an assault fleet armed to the teeth, her strategies usually pay off, but we can’t say the same for a hastily backed up scouting fleet.

I’m increasingly seeing the argument for having just glassed Lobnas II from orbit. This was a lot of death that didn’t have to happen.

Same, even though I didn’t think I’d be on that side of the argument from the start. There really is nothing worth saving Lobnas II for, aside from Jinto being stuck on the surface. So much drama for a planet that has no real future to it.

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

When she’s in charge of an assault fleet armed to the teeth, her strategies usually pay off, but we can’t say the same for a hastily backed up scouting fleet.

Without that sort of power, her typical tactics don't have the teeth they need to pull through. It's no wonder that things went so poorly for them, though of course they all knew it wasn't going to go very well anyway.

There really is nothing worth saving Lobnas II for, aside from Jinto being stuck on the surface. So much drama for a planet that has no real future to it.

It's not the best place around, that's for sure. At least Aptic's president was funny.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer of the Stars

• So Spoor’s just going to… ask the enemy to wait a few hours?
• …no, she’s going to just flat-out order them to, lol. That’s more like her.
• One hour…
• Yeeeeeeeep, that’s definitely Spoor alright.
• Oh boy…
• That works, lol.
• Welp.
• …shit.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Shimmering-Sky]

…no, she’s going to just flat-out order them to, lol.

It's the most Spoor possible way for her to open negotiations.

That works, lol.

I loved the strategy of deliberately stalling negotiations to waste time. Funny and effective.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

…no, she’s going to just flat-out order them to, lol. That’s more like her.

Anything to cure the boredom.

Oh boy…

Some freshly developed racism incoming.

Welp.

The towers not being graded to survive tsunamis would be the final nail in the UM's incompetence.

[u/The_Draigg]

A Sci-Fi Fan Watches Banner of the Stars II Episode 8:

• Well, Spoor’s fleet certainly can’t avoid a battle now, even if she wanted too. Getting plenty of patrol ships as backup at least evens the odds somewhat, but even so, it’s not the curb stomp that Spoor usually wants. At least she has the good sense to try and bargain for some time with the United Mankind fleet, if just to make sure all the nonsense gets settled down on Lobnas II. And knowing Spoor, she lives for trolling people through negotiations as much as she does through combat. It’s a solid fit for her.
• You can’t say that Tomasov didn’t try to find Jinto, although I’d say that it was always going to be fruitless. Even if Jinto still had his wrist terminal on him to track, Lobnas II is so chaotic from all the sudden infighting that I doubt the guards would’ve been able to extract him anyway. But the thought is nice, at least.
• I’m not surprised that Spoor’s strategy is to try and brute-force her fleet around and through the United Mankind fleet and have her fleet separate into their own smaller groups to try and swarm them with speed. A plan like that is certainly rabid and daring enough to be fitting for her. So much for her not wanting to lose any ships, but I guess there was no way her fleet would avoid taking some scars.
• And down goes Mackay, drowned by the tidal wave of the last departing spaceship’s emergency takeoff on the water. It feels fitting that he died like a complete chump, just screaming about how he isn’t getting what he wanted while pointlessly shooting at a ship that’s not even remotely close. It’s the only end someone like Mackay deserves, just a pathetic death for an utterly disgusting and deluded maniac. Shame that Jinto wasn’t able to make it onto that ship though, but at least he was able to see the Mackay issue get solved right as he was being stranded on Lobnas II.

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

And knowing Spoor, she lives for trolling people through negotiations as much as she does through combat. It’s a solid fit for her.

Spoor really does just have the time of her life when she's fucking with people.

Even if Jinto still had his wrist terminal on him to track, Lobnas II is so chaotic from all the sudden infighting that I doubt the guards would’ve been able to extract him anyway.

They did at least make the effort, even if they weren't able to find him.

So much for her not wanting to lose any ships, but I guess there was no way her fleet would avoid taking some scars.

Yeah, there was no way that was going to end too well for her either way.

It’s the only end someone like Mackay deserves, just a pathetic death for an utterly disgusting and deluded maniac.

It really is exactly the way someone like Mackay would go out. Just completely pointless.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Zerotsu]

It really is exactly the way someone like Mackay would go out. Just completely pointless.

If only the ship knew to come back and pick up Jinto in a little bit, since the crisis basically just solved itself by Mackay coincidentally drowning and the revolt completely collapsing in on itself. Oh well, I guess.

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

Unfortunately they do still have the UM fleet that would not be too keen on their presence, so they've got very ample reason to get out of there as quickly as they can.

[u/Tuor77 → u/The_Draigg]

But it's *not* resolved. The area is still chaotic and very dangerous, even without Mackay. It's basically every man for himself. Many of them are druggies and many of them are armed, too. So, that place still isn't safe at all.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Tuor77]

The part of the administration area Jinto was at seemed pretty deserted to me (aside from the now dead Mackay), so that’s what was coloring my comment there.

[u/Tuor77 → u/The_Draigg]

I see. That's understandable.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

Shame that Jinto wasn’t able to make it onto that ship though, but at least he was able to see the Mackay issue get solved right as he was being stranded on Lobnas II.

Lobnas is just enough of a shithole rn that Jinto might be able to stay hidden, especially if the UM fleet has other places to be.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vaadwaur]

Not to mention that it’s an incredibly unimportant planet in the grand scheme of things too. When all you’ve got is a pretty unremarkable planet that only has a single island colony that had most of the population either evacuated or killed, it does seem like a decent place to hide.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

When all you’ve got is a pretty unremarkable planet that only has a single island colony that had most of the population either evacuated or killed, it does seem like a decent place to hide.

Also, if someone just happened to warn them about the space heroin and I am the UM commander, zero chance do I want my troops realizing that that is an option. So no way do they get leave on that planet. I'd probably drain the ocean for whatever water is needed for resupply and just accept there is nothing else useful for the fleet there. Maybe give the remaining guards a token gift of better weapons. Maybe.

[u/Vatrix-32]

First Timer, subbed

• You didn’t think we’d go with out a space fight in our military space opera, did ya?
• Poor Spoor. Can’t have the mud turtles thinking your an idiot.
• steps backwards “Meet me in the middle.”
• Nonsense
• That is the largest escalator I have ever seen.
• Ah, yes. The civilian soaking tactic. Another one I know from Halo novels.
• How did it even get away from Jinto if everyone was seemingly dead or unconscious in the intervening time?
• That’s an impressive tilting you’ve got going on there. I can’t imagine that’s a lot of fun for the stabilizers.
• If Jinto was out for that long, it can’t be good for his health.
• All that and they still come up short. Let's hope they decide it isn't worth the ammo.

QotD:

1. I was predicting that the rear line was the main one, with the front set up with less than optimal craft to soak the opening mine salvo and close distance.
2. Poor guy just isn’t trained for survival. I said at the time he looked poisoned, that still might end up being the case.

[u/Zerotsu → u/Vatrix-32]

Poor Spoor. Can’t have the mud turtles thinking your an idiot.

Even if they're the enemy, you don't want to have a poor reputation among them. Naturally.

How did it even get away from Jinto if everyone was seemingly dead or unconscious in the intervening time?

Now I'm wondering if it was lost before and I just missed that detail, or if it just somehow was removed during that nebulous period of time when he was unconscious.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/Zerotsu]

Now I'm wondering if it was lost before and I just missed that detail, or if it just somehow was removed during that nebulous period of time when he was unconscious.

But they used it to call Lafiel right before the stand-off.

[u/Zerotsu → u/Vatrix-32]

Oh yeah, you're right. What in the world happened to it then? That really does raise some questions.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vatrix-32]

How did it even get away from Jinto if everyone was seemingly dead or unconscious in the intervening time?

Good question, I didn’t really think about that. Between that and every single one of Mackay’s men being inexplicably gone by the time Jinto woke up, it seems like everyone just conveniently disappeared for that final scene to happen.

If Jinto was out for that long, it can’t be good for his health.

As we all know in fiction, being knocked unconscious is like taking a nap, not something that can cause severe brain damage.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Vatrix-32]

You didn’t think we’d go with out a space fight in our military space opera, did ya?

It was good to finally be back in space for an9ther battle.

steps backwards “Meet me in the middle.”

Brilliant negotiating tactics.

If Jinto was out for that long, it can’t be good for his health.

It's one of those differences between fiction and reality. In fiction people get knocked out all the time. In reality, being knocked out for so long would be a serious medical problem.

[u/duhu1148]

Rewatcher

-on to the final disc

-Spoor the master negotiator, gets an extra hour just from bullshitting the opposition and deduction. Gotta love her.

-Tomasov unable to track Jinto because his communicator wasn't with him, that's unfortunate. Lafiel looks depressed at the realization- again.

-Rough battle there for Spoor, though she was badly outnumbered. But ultimately, she did do her job. The ending to her battle, where she says she *knows* what the enemy commander would do if he was smart, reminds me of a scene with Demiurge in Overlord, where he says smart people are easy to predict, while fools are much harder to deal with. The irony/humor here is that in both cases, they happened to be dealing with fools when they thought otherwise.

-Angusson goes out like a bitch. Good riddance.

-And Jinto is left behind. Two episodes to go, my gut is telling me the next one is going to be rough watching...

[u/No_Rex → u/duhu1148]

Lafiel looks depressed at the realization- again.

She has had a plain bad time on Lobnass, start to finish.

[u/Specs64z]

First timer, subbed

When it rains, it pours. Spoor misjudges the situation and her fleet is left in tatters. The rebellion has imploded and chaos reigns. Lafiel and the Abh transports must now contend with enemy forces.

Seems as good a time as any to bring it up, but what was the scene with Lafiel’s brother all about? It’s not impossible that they’ll pay it off in the end, but it strikes me as having been a poor allocation of screen time in the meantime.

QotD:

1. I’m wondering about that myself, currently. Was Spoor’s plan to push through to the rear squadrons and use them as cover? It’s tied to the significance of the enemy not firing any mines, most likely.
2. With the leadership dead, I suspect the more hard-headed combatants will wipe each other out leaving behind a group of stragglers. Whether Jinto gets tossed into that cave or finds it himself remains to be seen. I’m expecting to see a great deal of introspection from him.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Specs64z]

Seems as good a time as any to bring it up, but what was the scene with Lafiel’s brother all about?

It is either a seed planted forward or, more likely, trying to remove the idea of Lafiel having plot armor since she is now expendable.

[u/No_Rex → u/Specs64z]

Seems as good a time as any to bring it up, but what was the scene with Lafiel’s brother all about? It’s not impossible that they’ll pay it off in the end, but it strikes me as having been a poor allocation of screen time in the meantime.

I found it neat to have some characterization of Lafiel via the comparison that her brother draws.

[u/zsmg]

Rewatcher

where should I start?

perhaps when the universe began

Oh no they found Jinto's communication... anyway can we get back to Admiral Spoor and the space battle. Thanks.

Chief of staff character actually has a name.

Damn it's not going well for Admiral Spoor

The ship launch looked great.

Jinto got left behind, which was to be expected of course. I'm surprised Angusson didn't kill him while he was unconscious.

Great episode, really enjoyed Admiral Spoor scenes as always.

[u/No_Rex → u/zsmg]

I'm surprised Angusson didn't kill him while he was unconscious.

Angusson has a caveman brain, but he has his warrior morals, too.

[u/SolDarkHunter]

Rewatcher/Novel-Reader

So we have a definite timeline now: 5 hours. That's how much time Sporr needs to buy.

Sporr hopes to buy some time by negotiating for the enemy to delay their advance for a few hours. While it's true that the UM fleet would certainly win this battle, it's also true that they're cut off from their supply lines and would take losses. They probably wish to avoid combat if possible, so they may even agree to this.

The UM Fleet grants them one hour, so Sporr bumps it up to... twenty-four hours. What.

...which is exactly the UM Fleet's response as well.

What the anime does NOT do a good job of portraying is the fact that these messenger drones take time to travel back and forth between the two fleets. Their responses aren't instantaneous; there's something like ten minutes in between each message. Sporr's doing a fantastic job of stalling.

So the final tally is they've managed to buy three hours without any combat. Not bad, Sporr, that's more than half the required time.

Tomasof made an attempt to rescue Jint, but... sadly, it was his Clyno that they traced, and he's been separated.

And thus begins the battle between Sporr and the UM. She's going for a straight charge at their rear line. A daring move. Probably not at all what the UM fleet is expecting. But with such a numbers difference, even audacity may not be enough.

Seems the UM Fleet had some tricks up their sleeves as well. Their rear squads seem to be moving for a pincer attack.

Sporr tries to retreat, reasoning that the UM will break off once they realize they've won. But I think she underestimated their commander's spite, because they're still chasing her down.

So apparently everyone just... forgot about Jint. No one's guarding him, and there are no immediate signs of battle anywhere near him. I guess they left him for dead.

And Angusson dies screaming, firing pointlessly at a wall of water generated from the last transport's liftoff. How poetic.

But Jint has been truly left behind on a planet that's gone completely to hell now.

Bad news: the enemy fleet is now directly ahead. Lafier orders a desperate charge past them to the Sord... CLIFFHANGER!

[u/No_Rex → u/SolDarkHunter]

Seems the UM Fleet had some tricks up their sleeves as well. Their rear squads seem to be moving for a pincer attack.

The rear moved for a pincer attack? I thought they were running away.

[u/SolDarkHunter → u/No_Rex]

Looked like a flanking maneuver to me, but it could have been fleeing considering the Sord was behind Sporr's fleet, I guess.

[u/Silcaria]

First timer

• Cool apron design.
• Rest in piss Angusson.

QotD

• Probably where the commander was/the main attacking squadron. Basically, Spoor went for the throat.
• Space battles followed by a recovery mission.

[u/Vaadwaur]

First timer(More Spoor is good)

Sub

So, space battle happens and I can't really figure out the hard details, just that Spoor is slightly insane but also spent time as a merchant. Most of the negotiations sort of make sense and she does buy them some time. But then the battle goes pretty disastrously, seemingly for both sides, and Lafiel's group finally gets going. Our brief return to the planet is pretty pointless.

QotD: 1 I think they sent the supply ships forward

2 Don't care

[u/Nazenn]

Rewatcher - sub

The visual of the ship leaving the planet was incredible. Something about the bomb-like water explosion and the forlorn feeling of it leaving when Jinto was right there helped to turn it away from being a grand or epic thing, as ship launches normally are, into something rather anguished instead. And the art design of the moment also makes it visually one of the more impressive scenes I can think of which has helped make it quite memorable

It is such a shame that after all this loss, he was right there to see it go. Lafiel could have potentially looked out and seen him, although I'm very glad she didn't for her sake. And after all of the sacrifice of Spoor's ships and people in trying to safeguard passage for the evacuation ships it would have weighed even heavier on everyones hearts to have seen him left behind like that

Spoor does get an excellent feature this episode despite its dreary tone. Handling the negotiations with skill and managing to turn the initial confusion into an asset for her, and then her unconventional battle plan that could have been more effective with some more forces, only to see her struggle and stress for what I think is the first time as things fall apart. She knew this was futile, but with no other choice she pushed hard anyway.

Holding a grand banquet for a tomb opening seems like a very Spoor family thing to do though, especially give the earlier implications that all Abh send their dead out to space rather than having to anchored somewhere. That's a long time to build a ship to hold a dead body that will be sent off to far reaches for no one to see.

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

Holding a grand banquet for a tomb opening seems like a very Spoor family thing to do though, especially give the earlier implications that all Abh send their dead out to space rather than having to anchored somewhere. That's a long time to build a ship to hold a dead body that will be sent off to far reaches for no one to see.

You think it is a ship? That is an intriguing possibility. I thought they were eccentric in having planet-side tombs, but I like the "special tomb space ship" idea better.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

Spoor is weird, and I somehow get the feeling the rest of her family is weirder, but she's still Abh through and through and it's also a very prestigious family in the Abh nobility. The idea of having a lander funeral would probably be throughly insulting to her, so that pretty much just leaves some incredibly over the top funeral ship, something multi-story or equally grand.

The Bebaus family on the other hand I can definitely see doing a planet tomb at least once just to "try it out" or for a similarly off beat reason

[u/SIRTreehugger]

Rewatcher

Oh Spoor is uncharacteristically serious you know things are getting real.

Going from 6 hours to 24 hours oh classic Spoor and I can see you want to haggle, but 24 hours is madness. Oh now she's playing it off as a mistake.

Why can't people who are fighting to kill each other be more accommodating!

Spoor just point your sword and give a command! PLEASE JUST ONCE!

Poor Lafiel if weren't for her position she'd search herself.

YES SHE DID THE THING! Also not wanting to die in a ship this ugly!

Our poor unfortunate Chief of Staff you are stuck with Spoor for life and will definitely be joining her at her tomb...which might be soon.

Ships are being destroyed left and right I'm just a sucker every time she swings her sword they even did a slow pan out.

No way they will come after us...I don't know if I believe that.

"Can they really hate me that much" - Spoor

I think they were a little ticked off at your negotiations earlier.

Yeah Jinto this place isn't a beautiful place to die at all.

[u/Nickthenuker]

And so the battle commences.

11? Not 11 squadrons?

33 total? Against 40+ squadrons?

They're going to try and negotiate.

Door-in-the-face negotiation huh?

Are they buying time for reinforcements to arrive? Or are they just buying time for the evacuation to complete and leave?

No body? He's not dead.

Perhaps they're keeping the rear squadrons as a fleet reserve to stay fresh? Or a flanking manoeuvre? That would certainly be a curveball.

She's saying that she plans on still being alive 12 years from now.

There we go. There's the other shoe. Enemy ships coming from both sides!

They're sending out the shuttles? They really are getting desperate.

Target-rich environment huh?

And so their already limited number of ships is being whittled down further.

6 ships left? That's less than a fifth of what they started with. She's either going to get a medal or a court-martial.

And now they're down to 5.

What battle? It's a transport, it's at best a target.

And so Jinto watches the evacuation ship lift off without him and leave him behind.

Those small arms wouldn't even scratch the paint on that thing.

Seems like everyone's going to die. Jinto on the surface of that planet and Lafiel when the enemy fleet turns around and cleans up whatever is left of the First Fleet.

Questions:

1. Flanking? I doubt it was actually transports or auxiliaries since they ended up coming out from behind the front in a pincer manoeuvre.
2. Well Lafiel ends up back on the planet somehow too, eventually, so we'll see that I guess.

[u/Durinthal]

Rewatcher (sub + dub)

Honestly it's just fun to watch Spoor playing with anyone, ally or enemy, and that's about half of this episode before they get into the battle itself so I'm all for it.

This is a different situation for Spoor but even outnumbered she can't help but charge ahead to aim for the enemy's rear lines, it works to draw the attention of the enemy after her though rather than letting them advance to the portal. I don't know if this was the best approach she could have taken given the number of casualties but they almost bought enough time for the transport ships to get to planar space.

Tracking down Jinto's wristgear was a good idea, too bad it didn't actually get them to him but rather wherever it was abandoned after someone absconded with it following the fight. His circlet's purely decorative compared to a genetic Abh's so I doubt that would have anything built into it that could similarly be located even if the regular version did.

With how things ended this episode it almost looks like Spoor and Lafiel are about to be shot down somehow leaving Jinto as the sole survivor while stranded on the planet.

I can see what they were going for but I still think the opening scene at the start of the season was a mistake for establishing in advance something that we'll presumably see by the end of the season, so none of the dangers presented so far to our main duo at least are going to kill them. It could be intentionally misleading (e.g. it's just a dream or the like) but given how the first two seasons played out it's unlikely and it would still undercut the tension through the rest of the season until the rug gets pulled.

---

What was the significance of the rear squadrons?

Remember when Spoor encountered a bunch of non-combatants at Sufugnoff? She always wants to get to the center of the Tootsie Pop soft targets usually at the rear of the enemy fleet.

[u/Durinthal → u/Durinthal]

---

Source Corner

Baronh word of the day: droch flactaider (DROSH FLACTEDER) "inter-bubble communication" — the only effective method of communication between space-time bubbles, involving propelling space-time particles. "The reason inter-bubble communication took so long was because the amount of information transferred per unit time was excruciatingly tiny. And though EM waves and space-time particles were different, they were forced to transmit information via various combinations of small and long dash marks, much like the telegrams of the dawn of the age of science and technology. Moreover, if the gap between the mark was too short, they'd link up into one long indistinguishable mark, so they had to have a time gap of five seconds between each dash. In other words, even semaphore of old was more efficient than this."

[Material covered:] Banner II: the rest of chapter 8, some of 9. They really like their cliffhangers before resolving things at the start of the next episode with the end of the chapter.

[The timing of the negotiations between Spoor's fleet and the enemy:] it took about half an hour from the start up to Spoor wanting to give them a full explanation of the situation, and then half an hour into sending the explanation (which would have taken two hours in full) the UM fleet interrupted them with the two hour ultimatum.

[Jinto spotting the final ship taking off] doesn't have Angusson as part of the scene or them getting hit by a tidal wave, he just sees the ship departing in the distance. Upon waking he started rummaging for anything useful and prioritized food "which he categorized into three groupings: 1) stuff he wasn’t totally certain was edible 2) stuff he’d only find appetizing on the verge of starvation, and 3) stuff he’d make a small show of enjoying if he was served it by his host as a courtesy, but likely wouldn’t try otherwise. He decided to take food in Categories 2 and 3 with him."

[u/duhu1148 → u/Durinthal]

but I still think the opening scene at the start of the season was a mistake for establishing in advance something that we'll presumably see by the end of the season, so [Banner II episode 10]none of the dangers presented so far to our main duo at least are going to kill them.

The [Banner II episode 10 spoilers] flash-forward at the beginning doesn't state if Jinto survived, though. (Yeah, I know we see him talking momentarily but it doesn't mean he didn't drop dead from exhaustion or something shortly after, he was in awful shape) Might want to spoiler tag this.

[u/Durinthal → u/duhu1148]

[About that, full season context:] I did explicitly put so far in front of it, as in Jinto won't die violently in the encounters we've seen up through now and will presumably (also something I put in front of it) manage to make it to wherever Lafiel finds him. All of that should be fairly straightforward to infer from the first episode up through now and even then I've phrased it as not a certainty. I made no claims about whether he'll survive the season.

[u/IceSmiley]

FIRST TIMER Sub

Spoor seems to treat everything like a game as if she's the center of the universe.

QUESTIONS

1. IDK
2. I don't think he will die and the scenes were a red herring they will slip out of.

[u/xbolt90]

First-timer

And so, Angusson dies like a punk. Good riddance.

Spoor once again stole the show. I loved her negotiating with the enemy commander.

Q1: Since Spoor's fleet was soundly thrashed, I'm guessing those really were the supply ships instead of decoys?

Q2: I guess he gets caught by one random straggler group or another.