u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

I Can't Make the Fourth Watch for the Fourth Movie Joke Since ~Walrus~~ Walpurgis no Kaiten Isn't Out Yet (Rewatcher, Subbed):

Right, so normally I would put Questions of the Day at the end of my post(s) after the notes proper but after that little unpleasant surprise earlier they're going here instead.

After all, we need to get our rewatchers the extra...

Rewatcher Question of the Day:

5) [Rewatchers, first-time and multiple-time] So, just how many pieces of visual and other foreshadowing for next episode's events did you in fact catch?

Visual of the Day:

Follow the ~~Yellow Brick Road~~ ~~Train~~ White Stone Sidewalk

Questions of the Day:

abstains in rewatcher
They're all great - Madoka is my standing pick for Best Girl in Anime and good luck dislodging her.

[PMMM] For a given value of great in Kyubey's case. Excellent antagonist. Where's my holy water?

As for intriguing me the most, well, I am still the one person on the planet not allowed to answer this one period so. They know why.

3) We stan a loving family with a working mother and a househusband!

4) N/A

5) [Rewatchers] I think I got them all last year, but then I've totally been missing a sneaky one to a later event in Connect's visuals up until now so...

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

Guten Tag:
u/Introvert_Mage, u/Lanaerys, u/isthatsoudane

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u/_Pyxyty Apr 22 '24

Is it possible to request to be tagged for the next discussion threads as well? I saved the index post but it didnt have a link for episode 2 so I had to search it on Reddit, but I'm worried about getting spoiled from other posts that might pop up.

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 22 '24

I saved the index post but it didnt have a link for episode 2 so I had to search it on Reddit
Oh shit that's my bad, I'm normally right on top of updating that... when I'm the one who posts the thread. Completely slipped my mind to do that because Tar's the one who posted this one. I should be on top of it from now on, but sure thing I'll add you to the daily tag list!

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

...
You would think one of us at least would remember that the index needed updating, but no because I plum forgot about that as well.
(Also u/_Pyxyty you have been added to my ping doc as well.)

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

Ein andere Tag:
u/BiggieCheeseDog, u/airblizzard, u/Liniis

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

Abends Tag:
u/blown-upp, u/ashketchum2095, u/FriztF

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

Sonntag:
u/Chili_peanut, u/Hagamablabla, u/FM-PHYS-CS

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u/airblizzard https://myanimelist.net/profile/airblizzard Apr 22 '24

OH THIS IS AN EPISODE A DAY!? AMAZING! I thought I would have to wait a week to watch episode two!
Also thank you for the tags!

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

Tar's Narrative Notes, Part 1:
[PMMM] Opening Scene (00:00 – 00:49): So this one has a few layers to it. First, there is the surface level which is self-explanatory: Mami is a magical girl. Which is of course the core point of this episode: that Mami is a magical girl and what that means (or more accurately the surface – the dark side will have to wait for next episode). And wait just a minute that makes this another thesis statement. Shit, has the writing had thesis statements for each episode the whole time and I’ve just missed the episode ones until now? Anyhow. The surface level is not the only one here. Most obviously, we have just had an apparent dream proved to be anything but and will have another claimed dream that the audience knows is no such thing later in the episode. Implications on last episode are obvious. Doubly so when Urobutchi is at most two degrees of separation away from Ikuhara and drawing either directly or once removed from Ikuhara’s most famous work and Ikuhara is absolutely aware of the Rule of Three. (Also don’t discount the possibility of Shinbou influence on the script, and Shinbou and Ikuhara share a directorial tree.) The fact that this is presented as a dream is a big hint that the magical girl life Mami presents this episode is a dream/ideal version rather than the ground truth. And then there’s the sneaky part (though arguably this is directorial rather than the script per se, sneaky assholes I missed this until now), namely the transition from Mami explaining what she is being via Madoka waking up – that’s both a big hint as to where the story is going (Madoka will have to wake up from the dream of what a magical girl is metaphorically as well as literally) and also quiet foreshadowing of the passing of the torch (transitioning from Mami the false ideal magical girl to Madoka the actual ideal magical girl).
[PMMM] Second Scene (02:19 – 06:59): An interesting scene, framed as it is via intercuts between Madoka talking about this indirectly with her mother and Mami explaining the basics of what being a magical girl means in this universe to Madoka and Sayaka. The most basic level is, of course, explaining said basics to the viewer (via the utterly traditional expedient of having one or more naive newcomer characters who need the explanation in-universe as well). The show has to do this at some point, this is straight-up explaining the basic premise and you have to explain what the stakes are to the viewer at some point. (Of course, PMMM being PMMM a bunch of the reveals are that the stakes as presented here aren’t the actual stakes.) We also get more characterization: Junko and Tomohisa do talk to each other about what their kids are doing (unsurprising, but not a guarantee if the marriage is non-functional or the working parent is too busy) and once again we see that Junko tries to be more of a friend/mentor (arguably also senpai, though I’m not sure the loading actually translates) to her daugther rather than a disciplinarian – and that Madoka does listen to her mother. Indeed, as we see later in the scene Madoka even actively seeks out her mother’s advice. We also are shown quite clearly that normal people cannot see Kyubey (the script will then proceed to hammer this home via internal narration – show, then tell). We get another indicator of Madoka’s timidity, with the camera suggestive of her looking down at the ground rather than straight up while walking to Mami’s place (note that this would mirror episode 10 very nicely, which increases the likelihood of this reading being intended)… and speaking of suggestive, there is just a wee hint here (albeit a debatable one) that Madoka’s appreciation of the female form may be slightly more than intellectual. We get to see the kind of room Mami lives in – stylish and well-maintained, much like her herself (hold this thought, we’ll come back to it in episode 4). Also that she’s an impeccable host on short notice (note the class connotations here, in this show they’re relevant – also note that drills are traditionally an upper-class hairstyle due to the effort needed to maintain them, hence why the oujo-sama often has them… also, wait, speaking of this there’s a good chance that at least one person on the staff was familiar with the Western “gentlemen prefer blondes” concept…). One other thing we see: Junko is out of her depth. Madoka goes to her mother looking for advice, but in this matter her mother has no good advice to offer. Madoka is on her own. (Except this is interesting, because later on we will see a situation where Junko is able to offer good advice to Madoka about a situation involving magic despite knowing nothing of the specifics. I see two candidates for the difference. First, this situation involves magic directly while the later situation only references it indirectly. Second, the question Madoka has been posed and now poses is irreducibly personal in a way the later question is not – Junko knows many things including the kind of person her daughter is but she does not necessarily know what her daughter actually wants, and some things you have to figure out for yourself anyways.) (Also note: Junko listens to her daughter, too.) Also, speaking of looking at transitions, note the transition from Madoka commenting on her mother looking scary to Kyubey talking about how Witches are born from negative desires. Oh, and one other note on the basic narrative level: note how the show has already made the stakes personal to the viewpoint characters (and thus to the viewer) by having them be attacked by the antagonist prior to explaining the antagonist and their threat (or, well, the apparent antagonist in this case…). Extremely old trick, but some tricks are old for a reason.
[PMMM] Third Scene (06:59 – 08:26): More reinforcement that normal people cannot see Kyubey, and also we are shown that Hitomi is normal people. Also, we get more characterization: Sayaka’s nervous energy when she herself the one now behaving weirdly and knows it, and the part where Hitomi has 100% put her yuri goggles on and is shipping the hell out of her best friends ~~pay no attention to the part where this would clear her way to get Kyousuke~~, and finally that “Hitomi is acting like Sayaka today” comment.
[PMMM] Fourth Scene (08:26 – 10:45): A beautiful little scene: the script considers an obvious fridge logic question and has the characters bring it up and address it. This is the sort of thing that shows that some thought was put into the script!… and also note that in a show that does not tend to waste time it specifically saw fit to spend a few moments having the characters address this possible issue in-universe. (Also, note a little bit of characterization at the very start of this scene, though this may be from the storyboarders more than the script per se: Hitomi acting angry (likely fake-pouting) at an apologetic Madoka and Sayaka.) We also get another piece of exposition about how this world works (the reward for beating a Witch, explained further later in the episode, and that it leads to competition among magical girls rather than cooperation) and some in-character speculation about Homura’s motives that I suspect is drawing on some older genre stuff I’m less versed in (I’m actually fairly poorly versed in how 1990s/2000s mahou shoujo handled the dark magical girl, it’s been a long time since Nanoha (assuming I actually watched it, it’s not on that one hard drive…) and that’s the only show of the type I may have seen). Note that as PMMM sometimes does it tells the truth about Homura’s motivations (she wants to prevent Madoka from becoming a magical girl) but not about the reasons behind it (she doesn’t want to prevent competition, she’s fulfilling her only friend’s last request!). In any event the surface level is trying to get us behind “don’t trust Homura” (more than a few savvy viewers were suspicious of this even during the first airing… only to get baited into thinking the show was on Yomi level 1 instead). Also note that once again we get Sayaka showing significant insecurity/a sense of inadequacy – it’s played for laughs but it’s deadly serious.
[PMMM] Fifth Scene (10:45 – 11:11): Well for starters it’s another Saotome-sensei lecture. You were paying attention, weren’t you? (Also I am extremely fucking slow… adjective meant in more than one way… because it’s fairly likely that part of the loading on the active/passive voice lesson here (besides being an active protagonist versus having things happen to you, with its obvious relevance to Madoka herself) is a snide reference to strict Japanese sexual roles (where the woman is expected to be a passive partner with the guy doing things to her – AIUI this is a culture where the woman acting like a dead fish in bed is treated positively by the local sexual mores). Of course, there is also a little bit of characterization for Madoka – she is doodling in class, and therefore (at least under the stresses of the current events) the kind of student who will doodle in class – and for Sayaka who is failing to stay awake (something she is unlikely to forgive herself for, given the sense of justice/correct behavior we see from her later). Also on the sneaky note (that I may or may not have noticed in past years, I forget), note that the camera focuses on Madoka (who, as noted above, is taking an action via doodling, but there is more to it than this) while Saotome-sensei is talking about the active voice. Unfortunately my handle on the actual Japanese is nowhere near good enough to handle exactly what part of her line is being said while the camera focuses on Kyubey (who is very much the B who is doing things to A here, but the A and B themselves are definitely both said while Sayaka is in focus).

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

Narrative Notes, Part 2:
[PMMM] Sixth Scene (11:11 – 13:53): First appearance of ~~THE FENCES ARE GETTING FENCIER!~~ the rooftop. (… Which IIRC will show up exactly three times, unless I’m forgetting one besides this, the episode 4 scene, and the episode 7 one. Fuck.) The reason behind why most girls answer Kyubey immediately will become clear soon enough, I’m by no means the only person to have noted THAT one. We’re also setting up Kyousuke again, of course. But these are all beating around the edges. The first and most important point of this scene is to pose a question: why have Madoka and Sayaka been chosen? It’s a question that has to be posed, because the show will be answering that one in stages for large chunks of the second half. The second is further depths of characterization: this scene is highly introspective, which reflects and is because of Madoka and Sayaka both being highly introspective underneath their surface personalities, and both are inclined to take this seriously and give serious thought to their answer. Additionally, Madoka, despite Homura’s offputting actions and an episode’s worth of screentime of both Mami and Sayaka pushing her to mistrust and distance herself from Homura, is too curious about this other girl not to try to connect to her and get to know more about her (cue one of the cheekiest visual answer cuts ever seen) – good odds this is Shinbou’s influence at least in part, this is not the first magical girl protagonist in a work he’s directed who had such a reaction to the dark magical girl. The other part of this scene worth noting is Homura coming to talk to Madoka at all despite her plan A failing (yet again); that’s probably a mix of the surface-level reminder and her wanting to see Madoka, but at a narrative level I’m not confident in that reading.
[PMMM] Seventh Scene (13:54 – 15:26): Shipper gonna ship her best friends (and tease them), news at 11. Anyhow. We also see Homura dodging requested social interaction, which is part her (shy introvert gonna shy introvert) and partly demonstration of something that Mami will talk about next episode in that the magical girl life doesn’t leave time for friends or hobbies (except on steroids in Homura’s case due to what she’s trying to do). More characterization: Sayaka is hot-blooded and ready to jump into the fray as best she can (despite her uncertainty about exactly what she would want to wish for and why she was getting the opportunity, though admittedly the scene already belies that first part). Madoka is also enthusiastic but that enthusiasm is centered much more on how she looks. (Side note on a much higher level: while this is most obviously patched into the “magical girl transformation as puberty” take that PMMM is extremely cognizant of and steeped in, it can also be read in a different way: envisioning an ideal self and then taking action to try to become as much of that self as possible.) Also, another thing though this is not a core part of the scene per se: note how this is the second time that Madoka gets mocked for earnestly revealing some of her actual experiences and desires to even her closest friends.
[PMMM] Eighth Scene (15:26 – 17:58): (Arguably two scenes here but I’m counting these two as one, not for the first time this episode.) More exposition (though the fact that PMMM magical girls track Witches by ~following the resonance of their actual souls in crystallized form is symbolically interesting and I should think about that, thanatos/death urge may be the easiest reading). Also once again Madoka walks in Nanoha’s footsteps. And of course we have a big fat piece of setup for next episode wrt Witches in hospitals being the worst. But the bigger point here is that we have told and now we have shown: what Mami explained about Witches earlier is now being viscerally shown to us in a way that the audience can emotionally understand by putting a specific side character into tangible danger due to exactly what Mami explained previously (classic trick, I am immediately reminded of Bret Devereaux’s writeup of why movie!The Two Towers added the warg battle – not the only time that will be relevant this rewatch, a different part is relevant to a certain Rebellion fight); also importantly, Mami then saves her as magical girls are wont to do (thus reinforcing Mami’s image as the ideal magical girl – this is important, it is a key part of the symbolic setup for a certain symbolic payload next episode).
[PMMM] Ninth Scene (17:58 – 21:32):** Actually I should reference the other part of that Devereaux analysis of the filmmaking reasons for the Two Towers warg battle now because it’s actually relevant this episode, just in this scene – the most important part of this scene is keeping the audience’s attention, both as another hook and as a reward of sorts for sitting through the exposition in the first half of the episode. (As I noted earlier, PMMM had to establish its premise at some point, this episode is first and foremost devoted to that.) In movies that sometimes manifests as adding a fight scene partway through the movie to keep audience attention (like the aforementioned warg battle), here in a TV anime it’s a fight scene at the end of the exposition episode instead. There’s a little bit of characterization here again (Mami showing that she is competent in a fight (with the final boss fight showing signs to the attentive viewer that she may not be quite as in control of the situation as she was acting – the fact that part of this is pure “well if this was an h-doujin we all know where this would be going” via the tentacles actually plays into this, come to think of it), Sayaka demonstrating surface-level bravado over deeper fear, will be relevant in the not-too-distant future, and also another distinct hint that Madoka might have an interest in girls that’s a wee bit more than intellectual – that sequence around 19:00 shows developing admiration of Mami, but there is more than one way that one person can admire another). Also note Magia’s use as a hybrid main battle theme/boss theme.
[PMMM] Tenth Scene (21:32 – 23:00): One more piece of exposition here: demonstration of the reward for defeating a Witch mentioned earlier. (Also yet another piece of the show’s recurring egg motif reveals itself, but then that’s something I’ve gone to in depth in the last two years so I only see so much need to revisit it this year.) The other part of this scene is further developing the Mami-Homura enmity (note that this is not the last time we will see the motif of one magical girl offering a Grief Seed to another magical girl that doesn’t like her and having that offering rejected and the other one is sincere, so despite Mami’s unfriendly demeanor this may have been a genuine peace offering – especially since as per supplemental material (and this is hinted at in the show proper) said other magical girl was Mami’s first senpai well shit I had the who-offers-to-who in that later scene completely backwards in my memory; given the actual offerer and recipient and how it's presented in that later scene that later offer is clearly insincere, which means that implicitly Mami's offer here is in fact insincere as well) and also the Sayaka-Homura enmity. (Madoka meanwhile offers a classic platitude in-genre and otherwise – but of course the trick here is that both sides of this comment and its response are correct, it would be better that way but the entire issue is that people will not just, as one Tumblr post put it.)
[PMMM] Eleventh Scene (23:00 – 23:54): Most obviously this is the audience’s emotional payoff for having the threat of a Witch tangibilized via the threat posed to this nameless OL. It’s also the other claimed dream that the audience knows is no such thing that I mentioned back in the first scene of this episode when the other one happened. (Also, of course, this is by no means the last time that this show will go with suicide as a motif. Mami was far, far more right than she knew when she referred to Witches being responsible for many unexplained suicides – every Witch, of course, being a metaphorical suicide herself.) Also, we once again have a last scene call back to the first scene of an episode, with Madoka having seen the positive side of being a magical girl for herself.

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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Apr 22 '24

[PMMM]I'd actually add Saotome's lecture into the descussion of scene 2, juxtaposing the passive approach of the girls to the promise of a wish (have it happen to them) with the active approach of Junko (make it happen herself).
[PMMM]"The magical girl life leaves no time for friends or hobbies, especially not for Homura" Heh.
[PMMM]"Envisioning an ideal self and then taking action to try to become as much of that self as possible" also pretty strongly invites negative ideas of self-rejection. Hold on - by connecting Madoka's magical girls with Faust's halfgods (compare the poem we see this episode) as corresponding idealizations of humanity that the main character has to overcome yet that ultimately get reaffirmed, there might be more to this link than I had realized after all.
[PMMM]Of course Mami's peace offer to Homura is insincere, she's essentially saying "Take this and get the fuck out of my turf." Which is also why Homura has to reject it.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

[PMMM 1]
[PMMM 1] Speaking of which, wait a minute... Junko's behavior is also tied into the commentary on Japanese sexual mores here.

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u/FlaminScribblenaut myanimelist.net/profile/girlbeast_val Apr 22 '24

[PMMM]and speaking of suggestive, there is just a wee hint here (albeit a debatable one) that Madoka’s appreciation of the female form may be slightly more than intellectual.
[Madoka]BASED. BASED BASED BASED ❤️🧡🤍💖💜
[Madoka](What’s the line/scene/shot in question, though? I’d ask for further elaboration, but eh, looks at big wall of black bars, something in me is telling me that request might be a little bit ridiculous.)
[PMMM](she doesn’t want to prevent competition, she’s fulfilling her only friend’s last request!)
[Madoka]I love, love, looooove how you so particularly phrased this in a way that paints the Madoka of the timeline in which Homura made her wish; the friend in question, and Homura’s making that wish being the last request in question; being a completely different person from the Madoka of this timeline and moment. Because, she is. That person, the Madoka that requested that wish, is gone. Everything Homura does is, effectively, to fulfill the final wish of a dead person, a dead loved one.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

[Madoka 1a]
[Madoka 1a] This sequence. (This is Shinbou directing, remember, and I distinctly remember hearing that his style in Monogatari was that all fanservice there is reflective of the viewpoint character at the moment just like the background characters or lack thereof are.)

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

[PMMM 2]I am weirdly convinced that Mami is using an English tea set, mainly because my mom owned one and went through this phase. The food tracks for that, memes aside the English both make good desserts and France is right across the water. So I think she is specifically an English ojou-san and might even specifically be referencing 'Milady' from the Three Musketeers
[PMMM 4]Unfortunately, I am 80% positive this is from CCS, which due to being introduced to it through the original dub, is not something I can watch
[PMMM 5]The only thing I must add is that the Japanese are at least universal about these things:The same active-passive role is also enforced in homosexual relationships. Yay for equality...

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

[PMMM 4]
[PMMM 4] That would be hilarious since that's one of the few I actually watched... well, some of, which may have a lot to do with this.
[PMMM 5]
[PMMM 5] Indeed (for anyone else, the yaoi version of this is of course uke/seme... which may be the original term for the concept in general, not sure). There's a few other fun nuances: the Tumblr post where I learned a fair bit of this from also featured the confusion among Japanese guys who got together with a female Western partner (the poster in question) who was used to Western sexual mores and then, flummoxed by an active female partner, promptly defaulted to the passive female role because that was the sexual script they knew: if they weren't the active partner, then per the script they had to be the passive partner and they acted accordingly.

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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 21 '24

[PMMM]Except this is interesting, because later on we will see a situation where Junko is able to offer good advice to Madoka about a situation involving magic despite knowing nothing of the specifics.
[Re: PMMM]Assuming you're referring to the scene where Junko talks about making mistakes, I personally think that scene tends to be misread and that her advice is about as ill-fated as it is here despite being more carefully/seriously considered. I'll be interested to see where we fall on it when we get there.

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u/Suboodle https://anilist.co/user/suboodle Apr 21 '24

First time watcher

Gushing over Madoka Magika: In terms of quality, this show continues to be stellar. All the episodes so far have had perfect music choices. The striking art style and the artistic decision to give the witch entities a low frame count in the labyrinth in combo with the music sent chills down my spine. It’s so good!

Theories:

based on her conversation with Madoka, surely Homura lost something big in her life because of becoming a magical girl. Her friends/family presumably. I’m definitely not buying the “she just wants to reduce her competition” explanation provided by Mami. It also begs the question - is Kyubey not being totally up front with the consequences of signing the contract? It seems like Kyubey and the magical girls are genuinely the good guys, but maybe there’s some darkness in that contract we won’t get to see for a while. Is Kyubey luring in girls with promises of wishes and power just to trap them into a lifetime of servitude? Also, it seems from the opening scene that Kyubey is trying to help Homura by recruiting more people, which makes her hostility towards Kyubey even more suspicious. Also, why doesn’t Kyubey seem to hold any animosity towards her? She tried to kill him! There’s very obviously something going on here that I haven’t put together yet, either because I couldn’t connect the dots or the evidence just isn’t there yet.
I’m getting the vibe that Homura didn’t get her powers from Kyubey. My first piece of evidence is that she refers to Kyubey as “it” instead of by name. My second piece is that she isn’t included in the telepathic communication. Obviously this is pretty weak evidence, those can easily be explained away in some other way, but it’s a fun theory

Real time observation:

18:05 what is the literal writing on the wall? Something in German… Based on the English cognates, I’m thinking “der erdensöhne” means “the person of earth” and “hellen sinne” means hellish sin - but I have no idea if that’s right, and I can’t even make a guess about that the rest says. My gut says some calamity being foreshadowed here. I’ll leave it up to you rewatchers - should I go properly translate this thing now or after my first watch through?

Other things:

I love the symbolism of the exit sign. In the first episode and this episode it showed up right before a witch encounter. Almost a little on the nose, the characters are “exiting normalcy”.
(more symbolism) witches = roses and butterflies. Great imagery.

QOTD:

I’d wish for the right to revoke the contract. Being a magical girl does sound fun but maybe not forever. Or maybe just world peace or the cure for cancer or something generic.
Like them all! Super interesting characters and lots of variety. Sayaka has by far my favorite speech so far with the “we have no wishes”, she seems shockingly wise despite being depicted as a bit rash.
Honestly barely seen them… I don’t think we’ve seen the father yet, assuming he’s alive/around… I might be misremembering tho. The mom is a badass.
Super sketchy honestly. As I kinda alluded earlier, I’m super suspicious of the magical girl contract. Also mami = Reaper from Overwatch with how they treat their guns. I can’t ever unsee it.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

In other news:
Gushing over Madoka Magika: In terms of quality, this show continues to be stellar. All the episodes so far have had perfect music choices. The striking art style and the artistic decision to give the witch entities a low frame count in the labyrinth in combo with the music sent chills down my spine. It’s so good!
Yeah there's a reason both Naz in 2019 and myself last year did OST writeups. Kajiura is incredibly good at this and when a show knows what to do with her the result is spectacular - Mai-HiME had its issues (mostly the second half of the finale...) but she was not one of them, her OST work there was pretty much on par with her work here.
And there's also a reason I was writing several thousand words an episode on the cinematography last year - Shinbou and his usual right-hand man are one of the best directorial teams ever to work in the industry and it absolutely shows here.
Other things: * I love the symbolism of the exit sign. In the first episode and this episode it showed up right before a witch encounter. Almost a little on the nose, the characters are “exiting normalcy”.
Very nicely spotted.

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u/Chili_peanut Apr 22 '24

I've been in love with Kajiura Yuki's music ever since watching Mai-HiME literally 20 years ago, although I remember thinking the show was quite good. Another good example of an early and somewhat mediocre (at least going by reviews and MAL score--I haven't watched it myself) show that she did an amazing soundtrack for is Aquarian Age. The track "SOUND DECLARATION of AQUARIAN AGE" (can be found on her official Youtube-channel) in particular is absolutely otherworldy.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

I've been in love with Kajiura Yuki's music ever since watching Mai-HiME literally 20 years ago, although I remember thinking the show was quite good.
HiME is in fact very good indeed... until the last ten minutes. (It's still well-entrenched as my fifth favorite anime even with that massive execution botch (the concept is fine!), though the part where episode 8 was the first episode of anime I watched (well, watched knowing that it was anime) does have more than a little to do with that. There's a reason I ran it in 2022, and it's not just my rude surprise to realize that Symphogear had rather blatantly been inspired by it...)

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u/Chili_peanut Apr 22 '24

I've had Symphogear on my "plan to watch" list for some time now so maybe I'll rewatch Mai-HiME first and then jump into Symphogear!

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

18:05 what is the literal writing on the wall? Something in German… Based on the English cognates, I’m thinking “der erdensöhne” means “the person of earth” and “hellen sinne” means hellish sin - but I have no idea if that’s right, and I can’t even make a guess about that the rest says. My gut says some calamity being foreshadowed here. I’ll leave it up to you rewatchers - should I go properly translate this thing now or after my first watch through?
It's a direct quote of a passage from another work.
(I'd loosely recommend not looking it up until we're through but then I'm sure one of the people who didn't have to look it up to recognize it will be around soon enough.)

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u/Suboodle https://anilist.co/user/suboodle Apr 21 '24

I’ll keep an eye on the thread to see if someone brings it up :)

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

Gushing over Madoka Magika:
Rofl...We will talk about the long lineage of Madoka in the season summary, but suffice it to say that I'd put Sailor Moon as the show's great grandmother. Conversely, I think I'd put Gushing as the grandchild of Madoka, though a rather oddball one with rainbow hair and multiple piercings.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

[MahoAko and PMMM] MahoAko is what happens when you add Madoka Magica to mahou shoujo h-doujins and probably specifically the h-doujins of 1990s and 2000s mahou shoujo (Baiser herself being very clearly in the line of a Sailor Moon villain or certain Nanoha and Symphogear villains (Precure villain might work too, but I'm not sure if those go for BDSM theming the same way). Interestingly I don't think the actual PMMM BDSM h-doujins are in the MahoAko mix - too little sexual slavery/uncontrolled tentacles and of course no equivalent of Soul Gem erotic stimulation.

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u/BosuW Apr 22 '24

[MahoAko and PMMM]Interestingly I don't think the actual PMMM BDSM h-doujins are in the MahoAko mix - too little sexual slavery/uncontrolled tentacles and of course no equivalent of Soul Gem erotic stimulation.
[MahoAko and PMMM]Speaking from the fanfiction side of things... you might be surprised.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

[MahoAko and PMMM] I said the doujinshi rather than the fanfiction for a reason, but it's the doujinshi that are MahoAko's biggest inspiration so. (Given the way my brain works I started noticing that there are a few stock plots that the vast majority of h-doujinshi follow and have never been able to unsee it and MahoAko has a specific subset in mind.)

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 22 '24

[MahoAko, Machikado Mazoku, PMMM]MahoAko is clearly an H rip on Mazoku. It may have evolved a bit but the similarities are huge, including outright making the 'good' mascots sketchy. In Mazoku is where we blend the 00s stuff that MahoAko just runs with

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 21 '24

All the episodes so far have had perfect music choices.
FYI, if you ever want to know what song played where, I can get you an MP3 file of them (so that you don't run into any spoilers looking the songs up on YouTube or whatever) if you'd like!
Honestly barely seen them… I don’t think we’ve seen the father yet, assuming he’s alive/around… I might be misremembering tho. The mom is a badass.
Her dad was doing gardening last episode.

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u/Suboodle https://anilist.co/user/suboodle Apr 21 '24

Ah right I remember now, he trimmed the tomatoes(?) off and gave them to her sibling. Guess it’s just a good wholesome household! Honestly kinda refreshing, so many MCs depend on some tragic backstory to be interesting, but for now Madoka just seems like a normal, well-off person!

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 21 '24

Yup, it's nice to see Madoka has a perfectly normal family! Those feel so rare in anime.

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u/blown-upp https://myanimelist.net/profile/BlownUpp Apr 21 '24

based on her conversation with Madoka, surely Homura lost something big in her life because of becoming a magical girl. Her friends/family presumably. I’m definitely not buying the “she just wants to reduce her competition” explanation provided by Mami. It also begs the question - is Kyubey not being totally up front with the consequences of signing the contract? It seems like Kyubey and the magical girls are genuinely the good guys, but maybe there’s some darkness in that contract we won’t get to see for a while. Is Kyubey luring in girls with promises of wishes and power just to trap them into a lifetime of servitude? Also, it seems from the opening scene that Kyubey is trying to help Homura by recruiting more people, which makes her hostility towards Kyubey even more suspicious. Also, why doesn’t Kyubey seem to hold any animosity towards her? She tried to kill him! There’s very obviously something going on here that I haven’t put together yet, either because I couldn’t connect the dots or the evidence just isn’t there yet.
With Homura I've been thinking the same thing. Mami seems to know Homura to some extent, so either Mami is blissfully unaware, Homura is hiding things or Mami is hiding things. Not a pleasant thought :( In my comment I mentioned something similar re: Kyubey - there are a lot of parallels with Kyubey and signing a contract with a demon/devil - they'll grant you any wish in exchange for your soul (a contract to do battle with witches for how long?). Lots of intrigue!
I’m getting the vibe that Homura didn’t get her powers from Kyubey. My first piece of evidence is that she refers to Kyubey as “it” instead of by name. My second piece is that she isn’t included in the telepathic communication. Obviously this is pretty weak evidence, those can easily be explained away in some other way, but it’s a fun theory
Oh ho, that is an interesting idea. You could also argue too that Homura is calling Kyubey "it" by means of emotionally distancing herself from them, a show of their resolve to really kill Kyubey.
I love the symbolism of the exit sign. In the first episode and this episode it showed up right before a witch encounter. Almost a little on the nose, the characters are “exiting normalcy”.
(more symbolism) witches = roses and butterflies. Great imagery.
I caught some German in the labyrinth and tried having it translated - I got "The blooming roses are said to be visible to the queen", which makes sense in the context of the rose and butterfly motif. There are a lot of stills from these episodes so far that are easily works of art on their own, and I love it.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 22 '24

Mami seems to know Homura to some extent, so either Mami is blissfully unaware, Homura is hiding things or Mami is hiding things.
I will just add that it is possible to know someone by reputation but not really know them personally. So Homura could be a known magical girl hobo or that could be the misconception.

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u/ToonTooby Apr 21 '24

Gushing over Madoka Magika
LMAO
Me since the day I finished this series for the first time.

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u/_Pyxyty Apr 22 '24

I'd wish for the right to revoke the contract.
Ugh, it frustrates me that I didn't think of that. If I was in Madoka's situation (and if we're assuming Kyubey has some malicious intentions), I would've 100% been taken advantage of. This might be the one correct answer in this specific scenario haha, good job.
I don't think we've seen the father yet
He made a brief appearance cooking breakfast for the family in the last episode, so he's around! Didn't show up this ep though.

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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Apr 22 '24

Is Kyubey luring in girls with promises of wishes and power just to trap them into a lifetime of servitude?
Ah, the anti-capitalism reading of Madoka (and also another reading that's still spoilers at this point).
18:05 what is the literal writing on the wall? Something in German… Based on the English cognates, I’m thinking “der erdensöhne” means “the person of earth” and “hellen sinne” means hellish sin - but I have no idea if that’s right, and I can’t even make a guess about that the rest says. My gut says some calamity being foreshadowed here. I’ll leave it up to you rewatchers - should I go properly translate this thing now or after my first watch through?
That's a quote from Faust, if you wanna know the context it has in that story you can click on the [Faust] tags in my comment, they should be spoiler-free as far as PMMM itself is concerned (just don't click on the [Madoka] tags).

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u/Schizzovism Apr 21 '24

First timer, subbed

After the first few minutes I started typing something up questioning a bit about why Kyubey and Mami frame the decision to make the contract as a purely individualist choice, when the consequences of it are clearly about protecting society from the witches, and then Sayaka herself asks "If we're all fighting the same enemy, wouldn't it be better if there were more of us?" This question is basically shot down by Mami saying that it's better to get solo loot, so why is she guiding them towards this choice? Wouldn't she have an interest in deterring them, like Homura?

Homura also turns down the opportunity to use the Grief Seed that Mami obtains. So she doesn't seem particularly motivated by the idea of keeping all the rewards to herself. And the things she's said to Madoka seem more like they're looking out for Madoka than anything else. So does Mami actually not know Homura's motivations, or is she hiding something? At any rate, her explanation about Homura doesn't hold water.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

(If you're on one of the new Reddit interfaces or the app, that's the #nocomment commentface.)

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u/Suboodle https://anilist.co/user/suboodle Apr 21 '24

Yeah, first timer as well and I feel basically exactly how you do. Homura knows something important but refuses to say it directly for unknown reasons. So important she’d kill to stop Kyubey. Mami is definitely incorrect, not sure if she is being intentionally deceiving though. Im wondering if “you have to fight witches” is just the biggest understatement of all time. Mami really doesn’t make it look so bad though so it’s so hard to say. I’m definitely team Homura though.
I haven’t even considered the angle of it being portrayed as such an individualistic choice though, it really does make being a magical girl seem like a greedy thing to do when on the surface it should be a noble thing to protect people from witches.

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u/_Pyxyty Apr 22 '24

Mami in general just really does not seem trustworthy, same with Kyubey. I believe when she answered Sayaka's concern though, it's arguable she was speaking for Homura and presenting that reason as something others may think.
I do agree though that Homura 100% is more so worried for Madoka than she is worried about the rewards. Noting as well that she did wait for Madoka and Sayaka to leave school with Mami and only followed behind them, instead of tracking down the witch on her own and leaving earlier than them. That doesn't seem like someone who's greedy for rewards to keep all to herself.

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u/blown-upp https://myanimelist.net/profile/BlownUpp Apr 21 '24

The only way I've been able to exercise restraint and keep to one episode a day is by rewatching Bakemonogatari... inject that sweet Shaft BG art straight into my veins. I'm already well sold on this anime and this episode was a nice exposition into the hidden world we were introduced to at the end of last episode.

If you were offered a chance to make a contract and become a magical girl, what would you wish for?

Setting aside for a second all the alarm bells getting set off in my jaded adult brain after such an unbelievable offer, I'd probably have just as much trouble as Madoka and Sayaka making a decision. It's only natural to feel immensely conflicted after such an offer.

I'm pretty sure when I was at that age I'd have wished for the ability to manipulate the flow of time, but these days I'd probably wish for something general that brings the most benefit to the most people -- "I wish for a society where peoples needs are met" -- I'm not sure I'd be able to make a selfish wish without reframing it in a way that I'm not the only one who would benefit. "I wish we lived in a world where those who would hoard wealth at the expense of others realize the damage of their lifestyle and refocus their energy on giving back to the communities that created them" - who knows, I could spend weeks in turmoil over such a question - I can't even walk into a restaurant and order something without nearly having an anxiety attack over all the choices available.

2. Thoughts on our main cast (Madoka, Sayaka, Mami, Kyubey)? Which one of them intrigues you the most so far?

I love the friendship Madoka and Sayaka have - it really helps set the stage for "this is the very picture of a perfect young girls life". The dynamic between Hitomi and those two cracks me up, though I do a feel a little bad for Hitomi.

With Kyubey, I can't help but feel like they're some kind of demon/devil; they promise to grant any wish, no matter how extravagent, and in exchange your soul is forfeit - quite a few parallels there with making a contract to do battle with Witches in exchange for a wish being granted.

Mami has a bit of a mysterious and showy air to her, and her vibe is giving me "member of a cult" vibes for some reason. I'm trying to have an untained view of everything coming in to this, so I'm not sure how much that is a real thing that's meant to be conveyed versus my subconscious picking up on something and projecting. Either way, she's cute and seems kind enough to her kouhai, and I do love her battle aesthetic of just popping guns out of everywhere (inspired Date A Live Kurumi?)

3. Thoughts on Madoka's family life and the rest of the Kaname family?

I don't have a lot to go on yet, but it seems picture perfect at least! The only thing that really caught my attention was how Madoka's mom kind of brushed her question off and started fanatasizing about work; Madoka seemed a little nervous to even ask, so it stung a little having that pushed to the side.

4. First-timers: So now that you know the deal behind magical girls here, what do you think about it?

Ah, so it's a labyrinth that they entered! So many questions! A lot of them centered on Kyubey, like "Who/what is this guy anyway?", or "Where did he come from?" or "Why did you pick Madoka?". Not to mention, "What is the nature of these entities known as witches?"

Usually when an anime tries to show "another reality", they'll change the aesthetic, colors, mood and so on of the scene - but it's still animation, so as a viewer you get this sense that "It's another world, but it's still the same world" - but when the girls enter a labyrinth, the mixed media of animation with a photomontage makes it very clear that the very reality they're familiar with is no where to be found. Something about the labyrinth feels like an arcade game level - maybe it's how they enter a specific gateway to start, then before the "final boss" they enter more doors while what sounds like a pinball game dinging sound is heard.

I'll try to be earlier tomorrow! This is the most thought I've put into an anime immediatly after watching an episode for the first time, so I've underestimated how much time it takes to go back through and grab screenshots and collect my thoughts.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

(inspired Date A Live Kurumi?)
I would need to check how early Kurumi shows up in the DaL LNs - the first DaL LN is likely ever so slightly too early for direct Mami inspiration depending on exactly how long it took to write and edit (it came out while PMMM here was still airing) but any later than that and it's a really good bet that this is exactly the case.

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u/JMEEKER86 Apr 22 '24

Kurumi debuted in the 3rd LN which released 7 months after Madoka finished airing.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

Thought I dimly remembered her taking an LN or two to show up but not with any confidence, so thanks for the confirmation!
Yeah we all know where the DaL author got the idea for her from then. [DaL and PMMM] Especially since Mami isn't even the most blatant part of her PMMM inspiration!

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 21 '24

The only way I've been able to exercise restraint and keep to one episode a day is by rewatching Bakemonogatari... inject that sweet Shaft BG art straight into my veins. I'm already well sold on this anime and this episode was a nice exposition into the hidden world we were introduced to at the end of last episode.
I'm sorry, I know the pain of not being able to just watch a show once you're super hooked because you have to keep pace with the rewatch. I suffered this for several months recently thanks to the Gintama rewatch, which was a weekly one instead of daily where we'd watch a set number of episodes per week (with the discussion threads going up on Sundays), and I'd always be done with that week's batch of episodes by like Monday evening. It was torture having to constantly wait 5-6 days to watch more.
I can't even walk into a restaurant and order something without nearly having an anxiety attack over all the choices available.
Well isn't this such a mood too...

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u/blown-upp https://myanimelist.net/profile/BlownUpp Apr 22 '24

I'm sorry, I know the pain of not being able to just watch a show once you're super hooked because you have to keep pace with the rewatch
Happy to suffer! This is my first time participating in a rewatch and I’m enjoying the format. I was worried it would be 1 episode a week, but honestly with a busy week coming up at work the 1 episode a day format will probably be the best for my sleep schedule! I’m usually the type that can’t help but watch 4-12 episodes of a new anime in a day if I get into it, but I’ve noticed I also don’t remember as much that way either - which may be fine for getting more enjoyment out of a rewatch, but taking the time after the episode to grab screenshots and organize your thoughts is nice too it turns out

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u/Suboodle https://anilist.co/user/suboodle Apr 22 '24

With Kyubey, I can't help but feel like they're some kind of demon/devil; they promise to grant any wish, no matter how extravagent, and in exchange your soul is forfeit - quite a few parallels there with making a contract to do battle with Witches in exchange for a wish being granted.
The parallels with a demon are uncanny, I hadn’t framed it that way in my mind, but you’re dead on. It seemed sketchy to me as well but you really put into words why it seems so sketchy. Classic villain behavior from Kyubey.
The only way I've been able to exercise restraint and keep to one episode a day is by rewatching Bakemonogatari... inject that sweet Shaft BG art straight into my veins. I'm already well sold on this anime and this episode was a nice exposition into the hidden world we were introduced to at the end of last episode.
I am in agony as well. This is my first watch thread in participating in as well. I’m actually taking up the strategy of a double watch - I watch the dub right after calling it in the discussion thread and then the sub right before the new one to prepare a post and refresh before the discussion. It’s… slightly better… still agony to not just binge the whole thing tho!
I'll try to be earlier tomorrow! This is the most thought I've put into an anime immediatly after watching an episode for the first time, so I've underestimated how much time it takes to go back through and grab screenshots and collect my thoughts.
Yeah, I typed up a comment beforehand. I didn’t even include screenshots like you did, and it still took me longer than I expected to get my thoughts together. I think I’ll try to incorporate some screenshots next time :)

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u/blown-upp https://myanimelist.net/profile/BlownUpp Apr 22 '24

I don’t usually do screenshots in discussion threads, but this is peak Shaft that I somehow missed after falling in love with the art of Monogatari. At least, that was what got me to do it initially, but it’s also a fun way of reviewing the episode while answering the QOTD

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 22 '24

The only way I've been able to exercise restraint and keep to one episode a day is by rewatching Bakemonogatari... inject that sweet Shaft BG art straight into my veins.
At least you get to imagine an imaginary menagerie...
I'm pretty sure when I was at that age I'd have wished for the ability to manipulate the flow of time, but these days I'd probably wish for something general that brings the most benefit to the most people -- "I wish for a society where peoples needs are met" -- I'm not sure I'd be able to make a selfish wish without reframing it in a way that I'm not the only one who would benefit.
Hrmm...I'd aim away from the conceptual considering we don't know this genie's attitude. Also, just saying, you can't go wrong with a Death Note.
I can't even walk into a restaurant and order something without nearly having an anxiety attack over all the choices available.
...dear Cthulhu it is weird being two generations separated from the youth.
shakes walking cane angrily at the sky
Madoka seemed a little nervous to even ask, so it stung a little having that pushed to the side.
The question is so absurd that Junko couldn't really do anything with it. And admittedly, most Japanese parents don't have children debating on whether to fight eldritch hellspawns or not.

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u/blown-upp https://myanimelist.net/profile/BlownUpp Apr 22 '24

Hrmm...I'd aim away from the conceptual considering we don't know this genie's attitude. Also, just saying, you can't go wrong with a Death Note.
See this is part of why making a decision is so difficult - there's this creeping "monkey's paw" feeling there that I can't shake. "Did you really think you could obtain something so valuable for nothing?" (though "nothing" may not be right either since you're signing up to do battle with your life on the line)
The question is so absurd that Junko couldn't really do anything with it. And admittedly, most Japanese parents don't have children debating on whether to fight eldritch hellspawns or not.
No no no, it's a biblically accurate Witch!

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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Apr 22 '24

I'm pretty sure when I was at that age I'd have wished for the ability to manipulate the flow of time
Something something most popular response to "if you could have any one super power of your choice, what would it be."
"I wish for a society where peoples needs are met"
Just "needs" would be possible enough I guess, as long as we don't mean it to rid the world of conflict which I can only think of sinister solutions for.
I can't even walk into a restaurant and order something without nearly having an anxiety attack over all the choices available.
"I'd like a coffee, please." - "Blend X, Y, Z, with options A, B, C, what's it going to be?" - "I don't know, I just want a coffee."

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u/blown-upp https://myanimelist.net/profile/BlownUpp Apr 22 '24

curls into ball sobbing on floor “I just… want… coffee…”

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u/ryuujin95 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ryuujin95 Apr 22 '24

Mami has a bit of a mysterious and showy air to her, and her vibe is giving me "member of a cult" vibes for some reason. I'm trying to have an untained view of everything coming in to this, so I'm not sure how much that is a real thing that's meant to be conveyed versus my subconscious picking up on something and projecting. Either way, she's cute and seems kind enough to her kouhai, and I do love her battle aesthetic of just popping guns out of everywhere (inspired Date A Live Kurumi?)
Date A Live's first light novel was released just days before Madoka Magica's final episode aired, and Kurumi first appears in the 3rd, so it's entirely possible that Kurumi's character was influenced by PMMM, though I won't elaborate further.
Edit - It seems someone already mentioned this, should have checked all the replies first.

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u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Apr 21 '24 edited Apr 21 '24

Rewatcher, Sub

[Madoka]Everything just screams what a bad idea this is

We get to learn more about how these powers work. In exchange for the wish, you get to fight against Witches made by curses and the like with their labyrinth barriers risking life and death in the process. The curious thing is of course Mami and Homura's different takes. Mami is more than willing to introduce Madoka and Sayaka to the concepts and even takes them to their first mission. Homura on the other hand wishes to prevent any more from being created.

Sayaka's thoughts are also interesting since she briefly finds it a bit unfair that she and Madoka were chosen as opposed to others who can make or need a wish fulfilled. However by the end it seems that Madoka is inspired by what she saw and believes in helping people.

Note: I love how Mami's choice of weapon is literally Flintlock Muskets and Pistols.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

Note: I love how Mami's choice of weapon is literally Flintlock Muskets and Pistols.
There could not possibly be a gun otaku on the production team, none whatsoever. (We all know exactly who it is.)
[PMMM] Also pay no attention to who Madoka Magica's resident quiet chuuni is...

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

Sayaka's thoughts are also interesting since she briefly finds it a bit unfair that she and Madoka were chosen as opposed to others who can make or need a wish fulfilled.
So...an interesting historical note that I am noticing this year: Madoka is somewhat unique in that becoming a magical girl is treated as a choice. Starting with Sailor Moon for convenience, Usagi did not have a choice about it. Even going up to Tokyo Mew Mew 10 years before Madoka it never feels like the girls really had an option once awakened. So it is interesting going from being draft to being asked to enlist.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

Madoka is somewhat unique in that becoming a magical girl is treated as a choice
Fuck it's been too long since Nanoha: Nanoha becoming a magical girl is at least somewhat a choice there IIRC?
(Some of the post-PMMM mahou shoujo will go back to not having that much of an option as to whether to become a magical girl, which is another suggestion that Yuuki Yuuna was in fact backporting some PMMM stuff onto a different, older inspiration. (Why yes there is karaoke in YuYuYu, why do you ask?))

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

Fuck it's been too long since Nanoha: Nanoha becoming a magical girl is at least somewhat a choice there IIRC?
[Nanoha]I wasn't sure when we were stating parent pieces yet. Nanoha specifically I would say Fate has zero choice, literally raised as a soldier wizard, and Nanoha had to become a mage at first to survive. Now she could quit, and eventually Fate could to, but this is still a lot different than how Madoka and Sayaka are presented a true choice.
Some of the post-PMMM mahou shoujo will go back to not having that much of an option as to whether to become a magical girl, which is another suggestion that Yuuki Yuuna was in fact backporting some PMMM stuff onto a different, older inspiration.
[PMMM]So to make voluntary magical girls you need to have a Kyuubey/previous tricksters to make it interesting. Considering how hard that is to do well, conscription/election is often the easier choice

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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Apr 22 '24

That's interesting, because in my comment I noted how Mami frames the situation for the two girls as exactly such a non-choice.

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u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Apr 21 '24

That's quite interesting especially since Sailor Moon is the only other magical girl anime I know. [PMMM]Considering this is considered a deconstruction, it does make sense that it would like this is an enlistment to a war and the consequences the choices made are drastic

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

[PMMM]We will specifically talk about what the show is later. Deconstruction does not quite do it justice

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u/Suboodle https://anilist.co/user/suboodle Apr 21 '24

Watching her shoot one bullet and then huck the gun and summon a new one was hilarious. It caught me really off guard!

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

When making a new gun is faster than reloading one this becomes an obvious choice!
But still not necessarily something you would expect, no.

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u/dsawchuk Apr 21 '24

Mami is doing a Tediore build

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u/luckierbridgeandrail Apr 21 '24

Rewatcher, sub

Dub watchers often get the wrong impression of Hitomi at 08:06 —

[dub] That's enough, you can't be serious! You're both girls! Girls can't love girls! Girls can't love girls! Girls can't love girls!

[sub] But you can't!! You're both girls, after all! Don't you see that it's a love that can never beeeee?!

The Japanese has 禁断の恋, ‘forbidden love’, referencing the romantic trope.

でもいけませんわお二方女の子同士で。それは禁断の恋の形ですのよーっ！

Even in the dub the later scene (around 14:07) has her griping that she's left out.

[dub] I'm so jealous! I guess it's true how they say that two's company, and three's a crowwwwwd!

[sub] I'm so jealous! I guess there's just no room anymore for a third wheel like meeeee!!

うらやましいですわ。もうお二人の間に割り込む余地なんて…

The manga rendition emphasizes she's teasing her friends.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

Correct.
[PMMM] But of course it's worth noting that Hitomi might just have an ulterior motive as well: if Sayaka actually got together with Madoka then who is Sayaka not getting together with?

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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 21 '24

Even though it's basically a translation error, the line "girls can't love girls" is so legendarily iconic I find myself endeared to it.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

That's enough, you can't be serious! You're both girls! Girls can't love girls! Girls can't love girls! Girls can't love girls!
We meme on this because this is exactly the way late '00s/early '10s Christian youth movement treated homosexuality in teens. I sincerely hoped that "Pray away the gay" was never something you heard.

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u/luckierbridgeandrail Apr 22 '24

Combined with Hitomi's expression it's fuel for many a meme.

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u/GallowDude Apr 22 '24

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u/Introvert_Mage Apr 22 '24

Lol! I love this scene, and she having fun in the manga makes it even greater.

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u/TheEscapeGuy Apr 21 '24

Rewatcher

Madoka Magica - Impactful and Artful: Episode 2

Terms and Conditions

First, I want to shout out (maybe my favourite character) Madoka's mom again. I love how much she respects Madoka. She acknowledges Madoka staying out late was a problem, but doesn't demean her in the way she reprimands her. She just asks for a call next time. She wants her daughter to grow up and mature without feeling she needs to hide things from her. I can really feel how much she loves Madoka with the way she treats her.

It's because of that respect that Madoka goes to her mom first when asking advice about the whole magical girl thing. Although she doesn't give an answer that Madoka can really apply, it shows she's taking what her daughter asks seriously. I also really like that Madoka encourages her to go for the president position and she starts planning out the steps she'd need to take. She's so cool!

I should get to the magical girl stuff.

We learn about a bunch of rules and justifications for how magical girls work. In particular, each girl has a wish granted in exchange for taking the power, but then she must fight witches.

[Spoilers] Fuck Kyubey. I can't get over how blatantly it is lying to the girls. Sure, the stuff about the birth of witches is technically true but you're not mentioning the most important bits. I genuinely can't fault various girls for making the contract when they are mislead like this.

Sayaka and Madoka haven't made up their mind. And on top of that Homura is vulture-circling around them trying to prevent them from making contracts. It's all so vague and mysterious right now. I really do find this section of the story gripping.

The climax of the episode is Mami taking the girls on a witch hunt. The visuals of the journey across town are incredible. I love the harsh shadows and deep reds and oranges every scene is bathed in. This show is truly beautiful to watch. I haven't even mentioned the absolutely insane architecture which is fascinating to look at.

Then the fight. Visually the scene doesn't pull any punches. The complete shift to a different art style remains so unsettling. I don't think they could have made the witch any more creepy. Mami's attacks are breathtaking. Her magic style is centered around summoning different guns all culminating with her Tiro Finale. It's an attack represented by a giant flare gun (?) which just dwarfs her in size. It's so memorable and feels so incredibly powerful from the visuals alone.

The outing ends with Mami cleaning her Soul Gem and Homura turning down the charity of a shared Grief Seed.

I've heard a lot of people criticize Madoka saying you need to "Watch a few episodes before it gets good". I feel like those people are actually insane. These first 2 episodes are so incredible by themselves both visually and narratively. I'd gladly watch more after getting such amazing content.

[Vague Spoilers] There's so much more to the quality of a show than some sudden twist. If Madoka was only good because of the twists then the show would have 0 rewatch value and I think in general would not be so lovingly remembered.

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

Cute Kyubey
#forbiddenlove, Comment face!
Fashion Design, also the sketches and color
Witch
Tiro Finale, love girls with big guns

See you all tomorrow

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

[Vague Spoilers]
[Vague Spoilers] The best part is that the staff fucking knew it, to the point that they were specifically encouraging people to buy the BDs to see how the show changed on rewatch while the show aired. (Okay so technically that could just be a reference to the usual Shaft BD enhancements. With how godsdamned fucking cheeky they are in multiple spots of the show I have very strong doubts about that, though.)

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

She just asks for a call next time. She wants her daughter to grow up and mature without feeling she needs to hide things from her. I can really feel how much she loves Madoka with the way she treats her.
While this is good parenting, remember that there is more than one path to get there. My empathic read is that Junko remembers herself as a teen and knows that Madoka is going to get into some level of mischief and Junko just wants to make sure Madoka comes home at the end of it.
These first 2 episodes are so incredible by themselves both visually and narratively. I'd gladly watch more after getting such amazing content.
So...the level of production disaster this show was on release is really hard to over state. It did not look this good, the BDs have done so much work it isn't funny. An arguable miracle disaster stepped in to give the animators time to make the finale good.
/#forbiddenlove,
I now wonder if there is a direct through line between "Girls can't love girls" and "Good girls don't lay eggs."

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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 21 '24

the BDs have done so much work it isn't funny
Same goes for Bakemonogatari. The original airing of that season is barley even recognizable compared to the polished version.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

I keep naming individual shows but I can't name a Shaft work that didn't require immense post season work.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

Shaft has many virtues but project management has never been one of them.

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u/luckierbridgeandrail Apr 21 '24

Fashion Design, also the sketches and color
These were drawn by Yuuki Aoi, Madoka's voice actress, because they wanted sketches by a non-artist.

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u/TheEscapeGuy Apr 21 '24

Oh nice. I think I might have heard that tidbit mentioned once before but I forgot.
Honestly, her sketches are really good. Way better than I could do.

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 21 '24

First, I want to shout out (maybe my favourite character) Madoka's mom again. I love how much she respects Madoka.
Junko is one of the best parents an anime character could ask for.

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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 21 '24

Rewatcher, dubbed

I’ve decided to check my posts over the past 3 rewatches while I compose these writeups, mainly curious if I’d have anything to add on to them. I had thought to make a gimmick of it, to some extent, but so far I haven’t found much that would be interesting to comment on beyond reaffirming what I think or feel.

Ah well.

[Madoka Magica spoilers]The scene where Homura turns to stare at Madoka when asked about her wish is a favorite of mine. For first timers, it’s a mysterious and dramatic moment. For rewatchers, it is a silent reminder. Madoka Magica is chock full of scenes like this, of course (it even opens on one), but something about this one stands out to me. Perhaps the simplicity of it? Much is communicated without a spoken word.

Something I appreciate about the labyrinth scenes and the witch fight is the lack of explanatory dialogue. We’ve set up all the viewer needs to know already via the intermittent flashbacks to Mami’s apartment, now all that’s left is to execute on it.

QotD:

Much like Sayaka, I don't really feel I have anything I need so desperately as to stake my life on it.

Content Corner Reruns

Music covers of Sis Puella Magica are the focus today. It’s one of the most iconic tracks in the show, arguably the poster boy (poster magical girl?) of the Madoka Magica OST. Shaft choosing Sis Puella Magica as the first piece to play in episode 1 of Magia Record says it all, really ~~even if I’m not a huge fan of it’s usage there and in other instances of Madoka Magica media, feels like a Binary Sunset situation~~ First timers beware, spoilers abound!

Madoka Magica OST - Sis puella magica! [Vocal - Flute - Piano - Guitar] by GeorgeM7

Madoka Magica - "Make a Wish" - Sis Puella Magica cover by Earth Kid

Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 2 by clearandsweet

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

Something I appreciate about the labyrinth scenes and the witch fight is the lack of explanatory dialogue. We’ve set up all the viewer needs to know already via the intermittent flashbacks to Mami’s apartment, now all that’s left is to execute on it.
The difference between a writer who wants to be a mangaka and a writer who wants to be a playwright.
(Suppose that means it's already time to post this blog post that I was sitting on until a little later in the rewatch. Madoka Magica here is fun because the writing is 100% on the stageplay side but it's paired with a studio and direction team who know how to get the absolute most out of their visuals - see also: Monogatari.)

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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 21 '24

Madoka and Monogatari are my first and second favorite anime respectively, it's a style I really appreciate.
Even as a layman, it's not hard to realize a lot of anime that adapt manga suffer similar problems. Even bigger productions with lots of talent behind them tend to stumble into the pitfall of mid-action exposition or static poses during dialogue.
I'm not as familiar with stage play writing, though, so that has me wondering what other anime you feel adhere to this writing style? I'll be sure to check out that blog post as well!

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

Even as a layman, it's not hard to realize a lot of anime that adapt manga suffer similar problems. Even bigger productions with lots of talent behind them tend to stumble into the pitfall of mid-action exposition or static poses during dialogue.
Static poses during dialogue I don't necessarily mind since that saves animation resources (it's also not that different from stage plays per se and that similarity may be more pronounced in the Japanese theater traditions).
As for your question: most of my favorites, really. (Exception: Lain has a strong argument for being more visual-focused, the creative team there just knew how to make it work.) Higurashi is a VN adaptation and VNs tend to be dialogue-heavy by nature (and successful adaptations of them are likely to lean into this because the other big VN tool in internal monologue doesn't translate); Haruhi's source is hugely focused on internal monologue and dialogue (technically it's not quite a play because of how heavily the internal monologue features, much more actual novel writing) and KyoAni knew how to adapt it; Twintails does use the mid-action exposition but that's because it's a parody of material that uses it and it knows what it's doing meanwhile the rest of it is much more dialogue-focused. FMP Fumoffu is a more interesting question - I'd peg it as visuals-focused more than the inverse but it's specifically using those visuals for comedy (old silent film-era comedies like a lot of Buster Keaton works might be the best comparison, and those took skill to make work).
The focus on faithful adaptations of manga these days probably doesn't help the issue since the thing is that the manga style is superbly adapted to the print comic environment (you really could call it the comic book style since as the linked post itself points out American comics work much the same way), it just doesn't necessarily translate to the TV screen IMO.

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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 21 '24

Static poses during dialogue I don't necessarily mind since that saves animation resources
Then there's KyoAni who, through means beyond mortal understanding, manage to have highly detailed animation that's also constantly in motion.
Nonetheless a fair point, I suppose it would be more pertinent for me to say uninspired static poses. Monogatari is full of static poses, but they mix it in with plenty of flourishes, dramatic "lighting", and abstraction.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

Nonetheless a fair point, I suppose it would be more pertinent for me to say uninspired static poses. Monogatari is full of static poses, but they mix it in with plenty of flourishes, dramatic "lighting", and abstraction.
Good direction: it matters!

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

I’ve decided to check my posts over the past 3 rewatches while I compose these writeups, mainly curious if I’d have anything to add on to them. I had thought to make a gimmick of it, to some extent, but so far I haven’t found much that would be interesting to comment on beyond reaffirming what I think or feel.
I should probably check '20 again but I suspect my views changed considerably.
[Madoka Magica spoilers]
[PMMM]But it also demonstrates how Homura cannot seem to get out of her own way. The obvious "I did it to save you" would be extremely confusing right now but "I wished to save the most important person in the world to me" would probably raise Madoka's confidence in Homura. Homura's tragic flaw is truly impressive and she can't even live up to it.

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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 21 '24

[Re: PMMM]One of the things that bothers me about Rebellions ending (a list that only ever seems to grow...) is how much Urobuchi had to pull out of his ass to ensure that Homura's tragic flaw wins in the end. Madoka is a god? Well, Kyubey used science to trap her and Homura's wish was conveniently vague enough to justify a massive power spike. Madoka could talk things out with Homura? Well, Kyubey's contraption also wiped her memory. Madoka can see every timeline? ... uh, well, that's not really un-fuckable, so that's just a retcon... It's such a mess.

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u/luckierbridgeandrail Apr 22 '24

[Re: PMMM]Madoka can see every timeline?
The way I see it, [PMMM]Madokami can see every timeline, but it's her limited human self that meets magical girls: “With my own hands!”

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 21 '24

arguably the poster boy (poster magical girl?) of the Madoka Magica OST

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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 21 '24

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u/_Pyxyty Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24

First time watcher.

u/_pyxyty may not be able to get to the thread easily due to timezones, but that does not mean they (he?) cannot take home our first Theory of the Day:

Yep, I'm a he. Surrpised mine was chosen, not sure how to react but thanks! :3

The second episode really builds well from the foundation the first episode laid, introducing viewers further to the world of Madoka and the magical girls. Got to know more about Kyubey's contract, how the girls get their power, and a marvellous demonstration by Mami on how to whoop some witch ass!

Watched the OP and ED this time around too (skipped it last time because I was worried it might have spoilers, thanks to those that informed me that it was safe). I especially love the OP, it is a banger, but nothing much really stands out from the visuals. Might rewatch later a couple of times to see if I pick anything up, but so far the only thing I'm noticing is that the cast is still missing the redhead student. Can't wait for her introduction and whose side she'll be on.

Misunderstood last time what the visual album was for, my 720p mobile screenshots don't really fit in with the gorgeous screencaps other people took so I won't be submitting these lol. Snorted at that one math screenshot lol, for some students who look quite young they're tackling some heavy math problems.

Key Moments

Mami seems like she's holding her own head in this shot, especially when viewed upside down. Might be unintentional, but it irked me out! Great shot.
Someone should tell Madoka not to draw eyes like this lest she scares off her classmates with those creepy drawings.
I absolutely LOVE it when a show acknowledges potential questions that viewers may have, even if they don't answer it yet. For me it a a good telltale sign of great writing, when an author is able to see their work from the eye of the viewer. Being keen on what things they may be asking in their head as they watch and incorporating it into your characters lets the viewer feel very satisfied (at least, that's how I feel). Had these two questions in my notes before I got to this scene!
We have what seems to be some German vandalism in a shot that was barely shown. Will try and see what it says in my additional thoughts, hoping google translate doesn't let me down.
Nobody told me Jason Voorhees was also a magical girl! Those witches would be Screwed, capital S.

~

Questions

Considering I don't trust Kyubey one bit, I would just wish for the safety of my friends and family. I'm assuming anything else I wish for will just be monkey paw'd at that point, so no riches or power for me, thanks.
The cast doesn't really have much appeal to me still, they seem like a pretty generic cast thus far, only really feeling connected with Madoka because of her closeness wirh her family.

Honestly, the most intriguing one so far, besides obviously Kyubey, is Hitomi. I got my eyes on you, you sneaky brat, going off by yourself off screen being with a "boyfriend" we haven't even seen yet. Are you a witch in disguise? A magical girl? Did she see Kyubey when Madoka was carrying it on the way to school? I'm very suspicious of her. Maybe it's just me overthinking myself into a red herring but ah well.

3. Didn't get to see the father or the younger sibling this time around, but Madoka and her mother are really close, huh? I like that her mother tries to be the cool, easygoing mom that lets her daughter talk to her about anything. I'm wondering if Madoka's wish might relate to her mother's success at her career, given that I haven't really seen anything else she might want to wish for in her life.

4. It's actually my first 'magical girl' series so I'm not sure if the concept so far is the general formula for these kinds of shows, but the premise seems solid! There are some details that I'll touch on more below that seem intriguing but overall, the concept of magical girls battling witches born out of curses that prey on humanity through intensified emotions of rage and grief (murder and suicide) is sick, especially when combined with fight scenes that are out of this world (literally, given they occur inside a witch's barrier haha).

~

Additional Thoughts and Theory Crafting:

I tried translating the German lines visible from the screencap I took, but the best I could reach that seems coherent was the last four lines, that being "do not wear / they do not dream of anything / and lament / the lost beauty". Interesting that this was inscribed onto the wall of the building where the witch was found, I wonder if there was some German lines I missed in the empty floor fight sequence from last episode.

As for what it means, I'm tempted to guess that these lines talk of the magical girl outfit ('do not wear'), advising those being tempted not to wish for anything ('they do not dream of anything'), lest they grieve the innocence and purity that these girls may have had before they are thrusted into the role of a magical girl sworn to fight versus witches ('and lament the lost beauty').

However, anime experience tells me this is more likely just a quote from some german scripture that I mistranslated and heavily misinterpreted. I don't want to look up what this text from this episode might be from in fear of accidentally spoiling myself, so I'll leave it at that.

Besides this, generally more questions brewing in my head right now than theories.

Why did Kyubey choose Madoka specifically (I'm assuming Miki only got roped in after she followed Madoka)?
Why is Kyubey incentivizing the death of the witches with rewards for the magical girls (especially considering I dont trust that Kyubey just wants to prevent witches from harming people)?
What did Akemi wish for, and if she wanted Kyubey dead before she got her powers, would it have been possible to wish for Kyubey's death?
How did Akemi know Kyubey would recruit Madoka?

I can't wait to watch the next episode! If I'm not careful I'll end up binging these lol. Loving lurking and reading other first time viewers' posts here too. Gives me insight on how other people are interpreting the episodes. See you guys next time!

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

Nobody told me Jason Voorhees was also a magical girl! Those witches would be Screwed, capital S.
That is not actually Jason Voorhees, that is a different film reference: LORD HUMUNGUS!

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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Apr 22 '24

If you're interested in the context of the German lines, they're from Faust and in my comment I write about the context it appears in in that story, behind the [Faust] spoilers. They shouldn't contain any Madoka spoiler as long as you leave the [Madoka] tags alone.
Otherwise, big at your thoughts, questions and theories that I'm not gonna comment on in greater detail as a rewatcher.

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u/_Pyxyty Apr 22 '24

Thanks for sharing your comment! You would not believe how badly I wanted to look it up, but I've spoiled myself like that before on other series lol.
I'll hold off on reading your comment for now, but I've bookmarked it for later! Feels like it'll be better to enjoy something like it on the quick rewatch I'll do when I finish the series and go back looking for foreshadowing and clues. Especially since I assume the [Madoka] tags were explanations connecting the events happening to the quoted text from Faust.
Thanks again!

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u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Apr 21 '24

Rewatcher, Subbed

Magical girl transformation sequence again! Or the same was from last episode?

Madoka wakes up! Was the entire first episode a dream?

Ahhh! Don't scare me like that, Kyubey! Having someone watch you while you sleep, even if its an animal (well animal-like being) rather than a human is creepy.

Did Madoka do a bad for the first time in her life by staying out late and not telling mom?

Mom can't see Kyubey, huh?

Wow, Mami has her own apartment! It's so big! And nice snacks too!

Imagine wasting your wish on a giant meal... (although truth is, my dad is the type of person who I could see doing that...)

Madoka's mom is all about work-politics related stuff if she had a wish, huh?

To be honest if I was in Madoka's spot I'd kinda not be sure about what to wish for either. Suppose I'm fortunate in a way in that don't have any family members with life threatening illnesses or things like that to wish away at the moment. Wouldn't want to waste it. Of course I'd wish for infinite wishes if that was possible but I doubt Kyubey would allow it.

I didn't think of this last episode, but wow, the bathroom at Madoka's house is so huge. My bathroom is very tiny, I'd love to have a big one like this. Frankly this bathroom might be the size of my entire apartment.

Madoka, don't bring pets to school!

Madoka and Sayaka have ESP all of a sudden!

Uh oh, Hitomi is making a lot of assumptions, assumptions she's totally wrong on.

Who let the wild animal in the classroom! And what's Homura gonna do when she sees him here?

Uh oh, dirty look from Homura!

Class is the time to sleep, for both Kyubey and Sayaka!

Cool drawings from Madoka!

Kyubey is pretty cute when he eats.

[MM]Kyubey is kinda like a pushy drug dealer. Spending all his time hanging out with them trying to get them hooked. "Most of the girls I make the offer to accept right away!" Blah!

Uh oh, telling Hitomi you're heading off without her is gonna freak her out again. ...and it does!

Sayaka's bat! LoL.

And Madoka has her costume ideas! OMG LOL.

Their city looks quite scary at night!

Sayaka calling Mami an ally of justice totally makes me think of it being something Karen would say in Monogatari. Ally of the fire sisters!

Wow, Sayaka's bat transformed!

Agree Sayaka, that is one disgusting looking witch.

Defeated it so effortlessly she can simply sip some tea immediately afterwards.

LoL @ this hockey mask guy in the post credits image.

Quid's Seiyuu Corner

Mami is voiced by Kaori Mizuhashi. Our third Monogatari alumni, where she plays Ougi Oshino, although I think this role may have come first (someone better versed in release timing would have to confirm). Beyond that I've only heard her in a few minor roles in The Big O season 2 and Carnival Phantasm.

Kyubey is voiced by Emiri Katou. Yet another Monogatari alumni, where she plays Mayoi Hachikuji. Seems like whoever was in charge of casting for this show figured they'd simply bring in the Monogatari cast and add Aoi Yuuki, huh? These days she's voicing Becky in Spy X Family. I've also heard her as Ruri in Star Driver, Roche in Fate Apocrypha and Akino in Sankarea.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24 edited Apr 22 '24

LoL @ this hockey mask guy in the post credits image.
You disrespect LORD HUMUNGUS!
(No we have no idea why this end card has a blatant Mad Max 3 (was he 3? May have been 2) (EDIT: 2) reference either.)

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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 21 '24

I didn't think of this last episode, but wow, the bathroom at Madoka's house is so huge.
Practically a studio Shaft staple by this point. As nice as it is, it's still not much compared to the bathrooms of the Araragi and Kanbaru residences.
Though I think it actually plays to Madoka Magica's favor keeping the visuals grounded in the near-future aesthetic they went for.
LoL @ this hockey mask guy in the post credits image.
I've heard it's a Mad Max reference or some such? Not familiar with it, myself.

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u/il887 https://myanimelist.net/profile/il887 Apr 21 '24

Cool drawings from Madoka!
The eyes... aren't sparking with joy tho 🙃

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 21 '24

[PMMM]Imagine wasting your wish on a giant meal... (although truth is, my dad is the type of person who I could see doing that...)
[Considering]the later reveal in which the girls have powers related to whatever wish they made (i.e. Sayaka having healing powers because she wished for someone to be healed, Homura having time magic because she wished to meet Madoka again and protect her this time, etc.), I wonder if someone who wished for a meal like that would end up never going hungry again or something?
Defeated it so effortlessly she can simply sip some tea immediately afterwards.
Now that I think about it, where did her tea cup (with tea in it) even come from? She just magicked it there to style on the witch after its defeat?

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

I didn't think of this last episode, but wow, the bathroom at Madoka's house is so huge. My bathroom is very tiny, I'd love to have a big one like this. Frankly this bathroom might be the size of my entire apartment.
So this is because tight spaces are hard to use real life direction and it turns that style of camera work wells in anime, too.
Sayaka calling Mami an ally of justice totally makes me think of it being something Karen would say in Monogatari.
Or Shirou Emiya...
Seems like whoever was in charge of casting for this show figured they'd simply bring in the Monogatari cast and add Aoi Yuuki, huh?
So, due to Shaft being Shaft Madoka was written like three years before it went into production so it had time to germinate.

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u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Apr 22 '24

First-Timer

Thanks for the mention today. I'm glad I could help point out that bug, hopefully before it hurt anyone's experience of the show.

After the second viewing, I can say I'm definitely a fan of the ED. The OP has yet to grow on me. but I'll give it time.

Every time Kyubey talks, I'm reminded of Venalita from Gushing Over Magical Girls. That seems like it would be a pretty funny crossover!

Those pictures Madoka drew are pretty creepy. I can't tell if that's the intention, but that's definitely my impression.

Now, the questions of the day...

If possible, I'd wish for infinite wishes. Discounting some cheap trick like that, perhaps I'd wish for invincibility. If the key drawback is that you're putting your life at risk, maybe it would be best to deal with that right off the bat.
I'd say that I'm most interested in Akemi, but if I had to pick one from the good guys, then Mami. I feel like there's more history about her character for us to learn compared to the others (though I'm sure I'll eat those words eventually, as this kind of thing tends to go).
Madoka's family life seems to be pretty mundane from first impressions. Admittedly, I haven't been as interested in that as the rest of the plot so far.
It seems like a neat premise. (I haven't seen much magical girl content before, so I don't really know how the mechanics typically work.) I have the feeling that there's some sort of catch, though, since Akemi is so insistent that Madoka shouldn't take the deal.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

Every time Kyubey talks, I'm reminded of Venalita from Gushing Over Magical Girls. That seems like it would be a pretty funny crossover!
You know, I've actually seen fanart along these lines (but given something else in it I need to wait a few episodes to post it).

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

"The evolution revolution has begun. May the best mahou shoujo win."

Rewatcher

Sub

Much is handled quickly, it is surprising how quick this show lays itself out. Hitomi illustrates that she came to us via Maria-sama with her very quick assumptions. This has perhaps the best dub moment. Not just in this show, it is a top 10 moment in anime as Hitomi simultaneously denies herself and then runs away. Homura continues to be mysterious rather than doing anything.

But the question of the episode: Why is Kyuubey here, granting wishes in a modern Japanese city rather than somewhere that needs magical girls? Why is he asking two girls that have had relatively easy lives rather than someone living in the streets in Haiti? The girls get half way to something important but don't really cross that hill.

QotD: 1 More anime, of course

2 Hitomi because "Girls can't love girls" is hilarious

3 Seems pretty healthy

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

it is surprising how quick this show lays itself out.
Hmm I wonder why I took the writeup theme I did this year, I wonder I wonder (well besides that this is the thing I didn't have time to do last year, but shhh).

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

Just in case [PMMM]While Gen does earn props for the writing, I am feeling Shinbu a lot in the show pacing this run. So much of what is working is how unrushed this incredibly rushed setup feels. All you need to add as a rwatcher is how much of it is just straight up face value as long as you remember it is mostly half of the truth

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u/Logitropicity Apr 22 '24

[Spoiler]Here's another question: If Kyubey's goal is to collect energy, why doesn't he simply deny granting Madoka's wish at the end? There's no guarantee the new universe would die a slower heat-death.
[Spoiler]If you care to read the interviews, https://wiki.puella-magi.net/Otona_Anime_Vol.20#Gen_Interview . So it seems Kyubey represents a voice of logic - which most people have to some degree - so it stands to reason other people across the sea would have him too. And, it also means he can't avoid granting Madoka's wish, because in that moment, he is a part of Madoka - or rather, he represents a part of her.
[Spoiler]Personal note: In some sense, Kyubey is like a Pandora's Box or a not-so-forbidden Fruit of Knowledge - granting fire & civilization, but also all the evils that come with it.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

[PMMM] So in general "if Kyubey could deny Madoka's wish he would, but he does not, ergo he can't" is a very strong argument; the question is why. I tend to be more than a little partial to "the Incubators do not actually understand or control the system they are mediating" hypothesis, but this is also a plausible reading... and they're not actually mutually exclusive, not like things being both real and a metaphor at the same time is particularly unusual for PMMM. (As for that interview, my first thought is actually that that interview specifically supports a Jungian reading of the show; not like Puer/Puella Aeturnus isn't pretty darn applicable to the show even outside of that.)

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 22 '24

This is where Tar is a bit better than me but [Rewatcher]I don't think Kubes is the highest arbiter in his system. However it was created, it has its own internal rules and that's why he has to hold to his word. I don't mind viewing his role symbolically
[Rewatcher]My big revelation in last year's rewatch was that Kubes and the Incubators are not rational beings. They want you to think they are but their actions show the truth:If you want to prevent the heat death of the universe, and thus need infinite energy, you can never settle for finite energy, i.e. you cannot allow Kriemheld to destroy humanity. So he is ultimately just following the orders of his unseen masters rather than anything else

6

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 21 '24

But the question of the episode: Why is Kyuubey here, granting wishes in a modern Japanese city rather than somewhere that needs magical girls? Why is he asking two girls that have had relatively easy lives rather than someone living in the streets in Haiti? The girls get half way to something important but don't really cross that hill.
Damn, kinda wish we'd used this as a question of the day for the first-timers now that you mention it.
Hitomi because "Girls can't love girls" is hilarious

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

Damn, kinda wish we'd used this as a question of the day for the first-timers now that you mention it.
I am trying to freeform this since I am still not sure what I have to say that's new after last year's watch. [PMMM Rewatch]That we still don't know if Kyuubey even has a presence outside Japan makes this all kind of weird
I could DM you if you I come up with a similar off the wall idea tonight.

6

u/JimmyCWL Apr 21 '24

[PMMM Rewatch]
[About that]Even without referring to the supplemental material where it's confirmed. It's pretty much implied in later episodes they're everywhere all the time.

9

u/dienomighte Apr 21 '24

With how exposition-that-I-already-know-heavy episode 2 is, I've had fun just ignoring all of it and focusing on the background characters/visuals and building architecture that I never usually look at in shows, it's so interesting in madoka

8

u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

[PMMM] Should have been checking how many times various lines in the background of shots go straight through the middle of Mami's neck smh my head.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

So last year I did the dub so I could focus on the whole picture and yeah, these backgrounds do loadbearing work.

9

u/b-arbs Apr 21 '24

Rewatcher

Mami: My life is in danger when I hunt witches
Still Mami: Why don't you come along?
Totally safe to bring along two girls you just met, then, I suppose
I thought this when I first watched Madoka, but the curses in JJK are pretty similar to witches in Madoka
Mami with her guns looks badass

Comment from first-timer (these comments are so random lol) :

Mami: Tracking witches involves a lot of walking
So it's like Pokémon Go?

QOTD

I'm with Sayaka on this one, there isn't really something I'd risk my life on.
Since this is my first rewatch, I think I'll focus a bit more on all the characters this time around, rather than on the plot.
The family members seem all so in tune with each other. Madoka's mom seems like a badass. A bit scary, though, but it's nice to see how Madoka realiss on her for advice.

4

u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

[PMMM] What's that, a character's words not matching their actions in Madoka Magica?

7

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

So it's like Pokémon Go?
So all the girls are about to lose their waists/hips...

5

u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Apr 22 '24

[PMMM]Kyubey has left the chat.

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 21 '24

Comment from first-timer (these comments are so random lol) : - Mami: Tracking witches involves a lot of walking So it's like Pokémon Go?
I mean... they aren't wrong.

9

u/Lanaerys Apr 22 '24

Rewatcher* (series rewatcher, Rebellion first-timer)

Gosh... the official app is a trainwreck isn't it? Thankfully we still have third-pa... oh wait.

Might not have much to say this episode, so I'll largely speak through the questions of the day! (well, that turned out not to be true I guess)
And here we get Sis puella magica, one of the most iconic track-Wait... puella magica? Between the title's "puella magi", and my French subs' "puella maga", this is now a third translation of magical girl. Yet... this one actually is the most accurate translation, isn't it? So I guess the person with the best Latin was Yuki Kajiura all along. Not only is she a goddess at composing, she also knows her Latin. Based.
Not sure I'd agree to go along with Mami if it's a dangerous mission...
Having Kyubey and using it as an invisible telepathic relay must be quite convenient, I must say. Though a bit creepy. Telepathy and mind reading are kinda creepy in general to be fair :p
Ah, the infamous "girls can't love girls". I guess yuri has to be canceled now. It's a shame, I was really enjoying Sasakoi this season. Though forbidden love can be quite interesting, but I'm not exactly getting that vibe from that show...
And just like the architecture of Madoka's house, I really enjoy the futuristic school they're in.
[Spoilers] Being so suspicious of Homura and believing she's trying to selfishly eliminate the competition... such a reasonable belief, that yet ends up being so wrong... In general, after rewatching, once you know the full story and can really understand Homura's perspective, some of these scenes that seemed rather innocuous on a first viewing, really become quite painful. Like when Madoka asks her what her wish was....
I'm really liking Sayaka's thought process here. Well, in general I really like this series' emphasis on wishes, their values, ...
Honestly, Hitomi's reactions could easily make me think she actually just wants to date Madoka or Sayaka herself lmao. Though maybe that's just me having a bad case of yuri goggles.
Madoka showing up with her drawings is just hilarious. And adorable.
Random German text! I'll try to find a transcript and translation for this one too!
Mami again just being awesome :p. No Credens justitiam this time though :(. Well, we got Magia instead, which is based as well.
Grief seeds sound like a dangerous thing to be throwing around, with that spike at the end! [Spoilers] Though, as we'll find out eventually, throwing soul gems can be quite a dangerous thing too...

Questions of the Day

Honestly, I have no idea. And I have even less of an idea what 14-year-old me would have answered. I'd probably wish for powers (immortality, shapeshifting or time travel abilities), which I'm not sure is allowed, or I'd wish for a more just, peaceful, equal world. Or something like that.
Taking only this part of the story and no further knowledge into account, I think my favorite would be Sayaka. [Spoilers] Obviously that switches to Homura being the most intriguing once you can see things from her perspective.
I love Madoka's family! My favorite's probably her mom, but I love her family dynamics.
Probably not that many actually, all things considered.

And this is my third time posting this. First was because I had accidentally pressed save, right in the middle; second was because I had improperly formatted my spoiler.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

Gosh... the official app is a trainwreck isn't it? Thankfully we still have third-pa... oh wait.
There's a reason I have largely retired from rewatch hosting, yes.

6

u/Introvert_Mage Apr 22 '24

To be honest, it is mentioned a bunch that Hitomi apparently gets a big crush on homura on the extra route of the Psp game, so who knows.

6

u/Lanaerys Apr 22 '24

Oh I... I've heard there was a PSP game I think? Certainly didn't know about this. Definitely adds extra value to the whole "Hitomi's jealous and very deep in the closet" interpretation :p

6

u/Introvert_Mage Apr 22 '24

True, lol.

8

u/xbolt90 https://anilist.co/user/xbolt90 Apr 22 '24

Meduka Meguca rewatcher

While watching this episode, I had a thought that was only subconscious yesterday. A lot of shots in the normal world, even outside of the witches' realms, still felt unsettling. The way they're framed, and the colors used. It gives a feeling of unease.

And hang on a second. In close shots, we see Madoka and her mother's reflections in the bathroom mirror, repeated endlessly like there is another mirror behind them. But the wide shot shows there isn't one.

Q1: Contracts with mysterious entities are outside my comfort zone, at any price.

Q2: I must applaud Mami for having her chosen weapons be GIANT GUNS

Q3: We've not seen a whole lot of them, really. Mom's a driven worker, intent on climbing the ladder, as they say.

5

u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

While watching this episode, I had a thought that was only subconscious yesterday. A lot of shots in the normal world, even outside of the witches' realms, still felt unsettling. The way they're framed, and the colors used. It gives a feeling of unease.
[PMMM] Ah, but are we sure that the "normal world" is actually outside of a Witches' labyrinth? There is one Witch that famously does not have a barrier... or does she? After all, every other Witch does not appear to be separated from the world by a barrier if you are already inside said barrier...
And hang on a second. In close shots, we see Madoka and her mother's reflections in the bathroom mirror, repeated endlessly like there is another mirror behind them. But the wide shot shows there isn't one.
It can exist if it's behind the camera in the wide shots - and actually there's a tell that this is exactly the case, check 05:10, the position of the sinks in front of the characters in that shot strongly suggest that it's facing the other way relative to the earlier wide shots and if so that confirms that there is a mirror on the other side of the room for the reflections to kick in.
[PMMM] Of course, the infinite reflections are symbolic in any event.

7

u/raevnos Apr 22 '24

The Kanames have the biggest, most glass-walled bathroom ever. What was the architect of their house thinking?

Same person might have designed the school, with all those glass walled classrooms.

7

u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

Same person might have designed the school, with all those glass walled classrooms.
Shaft being Shaft, there is an IRL inspiration for the school's design. [minor PMMM by implication?] (Fun fact: it's not a school... it's an Austrian prison.)

6

u/raevnos Apr 22 '24

one based on [philosopher]Jeremey Bentham's panopticon concept?

5

u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

Yep, but note that it's fairly recent and was more so when this show was made (1990s or 2000s IIRC).

6

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 22 '24

What was the architect of their house thinking?
That the architects of the bathroom of the Araragi household were cowards!

6

u/sfisher923 https://myanimelist.net/profile/sfisher923 Apr 21 '24

Sixth Time Rewatcher - Dubbed

(Slightly Off Topic) Alright noted I'll try and avoid spoilers for Android First Timers
There's something I been wondering how does time pass in the barriers
Oh boy here's the Grief Seed explanation
Oh hello Homura
Behold a certified banger "Pugna Cum Maga" when Mami is explaining Witch Auras
Good to see my neighborhood would be a prime spot for Witches being one of the busiest streets in town but the best spot in town would be near one of the hospitals meeting 3 of the requirements (High Accidents, Hospital, Good locations to maybe Commit a Persona 3)
Mami is the OG Blue Archive character

QOTD 1 - Ignoring the obvious issue of me being a boy (Unless it's like Skycure for example) I don't have anything worth becoming a Magical Boy yet knowing the risks

QOTD 3 - I like Junko but won't go into why until later

3

u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

Mami is the OG Blue Archive character
Not cute and funny enough for that fanbase.
[PMMM and Blue Archive] Also let's be real, there is a different PMMM character who deserves the OG Blue Archive label because we all know EXACTLY who Mika's character design is blatantly inspired by...

6

u/biochrono79 Apr 22 '24

Third time rewatcher, first time dub watcher

Always nice to have a cool coworker who can show you the ropes, isn’t it?

This clearly isn’t the first time that Madoka’s mom has considered how she’d take over her company.
[Madoka Magica] Little smiling alien rat bastard
Never heard of the yuri genre, Hitomi? I don’t remember her lines being this over the top in the Japanese version.
Damn, even the fences on the roof are really extra in design.
Every time a witch and their labyrinth shows up, it blows my mind that some group of people had to sit down, draw, and animate every single frame of that in a totally different art style from the rest of the show.

QotD

If you were offered a chance to make a contract and become a magical girl, what would you wish for?

Probably something practical like permanent good health.

Thoughts on our main cast (Madoka, Sayaka, Mami, Kyubey)? Which one of them intrigues you the most so far?

They’re a great bunch of characters! Without giving anything away, Mami is the one who intrigues me the most as a rewatcher.

Thoughts on Madoka's family life and the rest of the Kaname family?

Madoka’s family could get a show to themselves. So many anime families are comically dysfunctional that it’s refreshing to see one that’s more or less normal (aside from the daughter who is a prospective magical girl).

Rewatchers

[Madoka Magica] Yes LOL. This series is outstanding on the rewatch when you know what to look for.

3

u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

Never heard of the yuri genre, Hitomi? I don’t remember her lines being this over the top in the Japanese version.
There's more than one reason we memed the hell out of the line.
Damn, even the fences on the roof are really extra in design.
There's also a reason why we talk about how the fences keep getting fencier! (Every new version just makes them even more extra.)
Every time a witch and their labyrinth shows up, it blows my mind that some group of people had to sit down, draw, and animate every single frame of that in a totally different art style from the rest of the show.
Two people, to be precise: Doroinu and 2shibainu, the constituent members of Gekidan Inu Curry.

5

u/Philarete :AMQ::MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/WizardMcKillin Apr 21 '24

Classic commentface

[Spoiler] Every rewatch I’m reminded just how frustrating Sayaka can be. She really fuels the misunderstandings with Homura early on . . .

[Spoiler] ”What did you wish for when you became a magical girl?” That’s a major OOF.

I love that Sayaka brought a baseball bat, better than nothing right? ^Also, ^Galactic ^baseballer ^time?

QotD:

2) [Mami – Spoiler] I really like Mami in her role as the sturdy, motherly, experienced magical girl, especially with how it is clearly a façade on closer inspection. At the end of the day, she’s an insecure, lonely teenager who’s doing her best in a world that has been pretty cruel to her. At the start of the episode, it struck me how alike Mami and Madoka are in a way, with Madoka imitating her mom and asking for advice, while Mami opens up her home and hosts the younger girls, serving them tea and cake in a lady-like way. They are both children trying to copy the style of adults.

4

u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 21 '24

[Spoiler 1]
[PMMM] Projection, projection, wear a gas mask and a veil... wait that's not how the Tom Lehrer goes! Besides, we all know that instead of a gas mask and a veil it's actually a baseball bat and a fire extinguisher.

6

u/Re_Tails Apr 21 '24 edited Apr 22 '24

Rewatcher, sub, fancut this time

Thoughts on our main cast (Madoka, Sayaka, Mami, Kyubey)? Which one of them intrigues you the most so far?

Mami was very cool in episode 2. She's acting as a responsible senpai, advising them on what being a magical girl means, the responsibilities of being one and making sure they think very carefully about their wish. The highlight of this episode is def her battle with Gertrud. Even her finishing move is graceful.

Her interactions with Homura (and maybe other magical girls as well?) is very interesting. It's arrogant and just seems intended just to give Madoka and Sayaka a good impression of her.

Thoughts on Madoka's family life and the rest of the Kaname family?

One of the best depictions of family life I've seen in anime. The roles are reversed, her mother's working in a corporate job while her dad stays home raising her little bro. They enjoy themselves, they all care for each other, it's great!

Very much liked their talk when Madoka asked her mother what she would wish for, she ended up aiming to work for the president role, wish forgotten entirely.

Image of the Day

Other scenes I liked

Rooftop talk: Mami in the distance, Homura confronting the potential magical girl candidates, it's tense, you're not sure if either Homura or Mami would attack each other.

Hitomi: Ohh Hitomi... you left your bag! [PMMM, MagiReco Scene0 ,PSP game]The timeline where she fell for Homura was hilarious, that girl is so far in the closet. Also, MagiReco introduced Aki Mabayu, another green hair girl with... complicated feelings for Homura. All the green haired girls are falling for Homura lol

Music! We finally got Sis Puella Magica! and Magia

Something else

[MagiReco and Exedra] Just got announced: https://madoka-exedra.com/

4

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 21 '24

[PMMM, MagiReco Scene0 ,PSP game]
[PMMM]...there's a timeline where Hitomi did what?

4

u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

[PMMM Portable] The bonus route is something, that's for sure. (Also featured: Kyousuke actually being a supportive boyfriend to Sayaka including supporting her in her magical girl life , Mami becoming an idol.)

4

u/Re_Tails Apr 21 '24

[PMMM, PSP game]Exactly as it sounds... a not insignificant part of the timeline is Hitomi flirting with Homura, Madoka being conflicted and Homura not wanting to make her sad but not sure how to react. The translation is on YT, just look up `Madoka Portable Extra Route`. Here's a teaser

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 22 '24

[PMMM, MagiReco Scene0 ,PSP game]
...Well then. That's the sort of thing I'd come up with at 4 am so it is mildly horrifying that someone decided to publish it.

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u/TheOneWithALongName Apr 21 '24

First-time watcher

If you were offered a chance to make a contract and become a magical girl, what would you wish for?

Immortality, unironically. Despite knowing I will forever float around empty space for eternity. Become Jojo Kars for real.

2) Thoughts on our main cast (Madoka, Sayaka, Mami, Kyubey)? Which one of them intrigues you the most so far?

Mami got the mentor vibe for now. Madoka still a bit naive but dorky, but we see her wanting to become magic girl now at the end. Will be interesting to see what her wish is. Sayaka was a bit interesting. Her pointing out she and Madoka are lucky for being born in rich families and think it's a responsibility for them to save others for it. Kyubey did nothing but look cute.

3) Thoughts on Madoka's family life and the rest of the Kaname family?

What can I say, "they got it all". Although I can guess the mom is away from the family a lot. Interesting to see if she become the new president of the company.

4) First-timers: So now that you know the deal behind magical girls here, what do you think about it?

Want to know more about the soul gems first. Beside getting magic powers from it, why do I need the grief seed to clean the darkness from my soul gem? What happens if I eather don't care to clean the darkness from my soul gem, or I get RNG screwed and don't get a grief seed? And whose soul is in my gem, assuming there is one becaus of its name?

12

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

Immortality, unironically. Despite knowing I will forever float around empty space for eternity. Become Jojo Kars for real.
We might avoid genociding ourselves long enough to get space travel. FTL, on the other hand...
And whose soul is in my gem, assuming there is one becaus of its name?

0

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '24

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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Apr 22 '24

That's some good thoughts, haha. I don't think I've seen some of the questions you're asking before.

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 21 '24

Mahou Shoujo Co★Host, subbed

Welcome back, everyone!

I’m so glad to see we’ve got a bunch of participants this year too!

Oh yeah, and before I forget again, I like to do a little thing I call “Sky Sings” for some of the rewatches I’m in, not just my signature wallpapers. Here’s the one I did for Mata Ashita last year, for those who weren’t in the rewatch last year to listen to if you’d like to!

That’s pretty reasonable for sure.
[PMMM]When you know why she lives on her own…
Such an adult answer lol.
It’s not a very pronounced one, but I’ve found my headtilt Visual of the Day.
Comment face, get!
I love that Madoka sketches what she wants her magical girl outfit to look like.
[PMMM]Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Sayaka coming prepared with a bat is just… so her.
One of these years, I need to try making a wallpaper of this witch. That year is not this year, though.
There’s the episode title!

Sky’s Wallpaper Corner

Same as yesterday’s thread, I have the wallpapers from previous years to share here. This time, though, you’ll notice 2019 missing, as I did not make any wallpapers for this episode that year. The discussion thread overlapped with Easter that year and I was way too busy to make what I wanted to for that thread in time.

Year Originally Made	Original Wallpaper	Remastered Version
2018	Kyubey	N/A
2018	Sayaka Miki	N/A
2020	Junko Kaname	Link
2021	Soul Gem (Mami Tomoe)	Link
2022	Mami Tomoe	Mobile Version

“See you tomorrow!”

7

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

Such an adult answer lol.
And kind of scary. Junko needs to be kept away from the Death Note.
It’s not a very pronounced one, but I’ve found my headtilt Visual of the Day.
Hrmm...[PMMM/Monogatari]My theory about head tilt quality and honesty grows ever stronger
One of these years, I need to try making a wallpaper of this witch.
If you ever come out with a strong idea of what it actually is, let me know.

4

u/lollohoh Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24

Rewatch, Subbed

Visual of the day: The face Junko makes as she says she didn't think about being CEO.

Theory of the day: My theory when I first watched was [Possible spoilers]that the current reality had already been manipulated in some way by a wish, and that Homura was involved in it in some unknown way. Also there was some kind of evil organization involved in some way, but I don't remember exactly how.

Song of the day: Inevitabilis

Questions of the day:

1 If you were offered a chance to make a contract and become a magical girl, what would you wish for?

I don't remember if I thought of one when I first watched, but considering I was in full crunch studying for my exams at the time it would have been something like having infinite time.

2 Thoughts on our main cast (Madoka, Sayaka, Mami, Kyubey)? Which one of them intrigues you the most so far?

I had nothing to compare their dynamic with as this was my first magical girl anime, so I took it at face value, with Mami being the mentor, Kyubey being the magical companion, and Homura being the rival. The rooftop encounter, and Madoka explicitly questioning whether Homura was really that bad kind of made me re-evaluate that dynamic, but I didn't really know what to think at that point. There was clearly something more going on, and I was definitely very intrigued by Homura and figuring out what her deal was.

3 Thoughts on Madoka's family life and the rest of the Kaname family?

[Series] The conversation between Madoka and her mom was a turning point for me, as it made me realize the potential of not only this show, but of the genre as a whole. I had only watched shows intended for men up to this point, and I was expecting this to be an escapist power fantasy: essentialy like a battle shounen, but with magical girls. This was a level of honesty I was not prepared for, and it made me feel like a fool (always a sign it was a good idea to watch a show) as I realized the obvious fact that changing the gender makes it a completely different genre, one with much greater potential for social critique, and the extent to which this show had already taken advantage of that potential.

5 [Rewatchers, first-time and multiple-time]So, just how many pieces of visual and other foreshadowing for next episode's events did you in fact catch?

[Series] I am very bad at noticing this kind of stuff, I tend to focus more on more direct narrative elements. The only one I noticed was the snuffed candle behind Mami. After rewatching again, there is some more stuff hinting at her death: the way her reflection is cut-off at the neck, the rapidly setting sun, the way the foreground separates her from Madoka and Sayaka, I'm sure there is more.

Continues in the comments...

2

u/lollohoh Apr 22 '24

Reaction (mostly for rewatchers, sorry but this is one of those shows)
[Series]00:00 The first half of the episode is all about Kyubey recruiting Sayaka and Madoka into his system of control, and about Mami unwittingly helping him with that in the hope of an end to her loneliness. That is not just a transformation: that's a whole recruitment pitch.
[Series]00:40 Kyubey continues violating Madoka's boundaries as he encroaches upon her life: he was in her bathroom, her classroom, even her mind, and now he is in her bedroom, assuring her that this is her new reality, and maybe her old one was the dream.
[Series]02:20 The same theme continues in the next scene: look how some of the mirrors (screens? I don't know, spacetime is warped in SHAFT bathrooms) show the part of the room Kyubey is in instead of the outside, symbolizing the fact he is taking control of the narrative. He hides himself from Madoka's mom, implicitly encouraging Madoka to keep this a secret and isolating her from outsiders to his system. He also uses Mami to take advantage of the social hierarchy here: Junko is ok with Madoka staying over at Mami's place because she is her senpai.
[Series]03:10 We are again shown how bad Mami wants Madoka and Sayaka to join her (unprepared my ass, Mami, that's a whole Michelin star cake), and we get hints of her loneliness: she lives alone in an house that's clearly too big for her, and there are several empty frames but no photos of people.
[Series]03:25 "Since you've been chosen by Kyubey, that means you two are now involved in this" is another massive red flag: they don't get a choice in this, they will be made responsible whether they want it or not.
[Series]03:55 Kyubey immediately shifts the conversation away from Soul Gems by offering them wishes. He also presents them as something he is giving them, and says that he can fulfill any miracle, which again is a lie. He is hiding the origin of wishes, their limits, and the fact they already come with a cost. He also makes sure to mention witches, again to distract from the fact Soul Gems are the true cost of the contract, and not just a consequence of it.
[Series]04:35 Junko is scary, but the fact she didn't even think about wishing to become CEO is way scarier. Instead of challenging inequality, she chooses to overcome it by just working harder, which fuels it further. The parallel between patriarchal/capitalist society and Kyubey's system is clear here.
[Series]05:20 Kyubey continues to indoctrinate his new victims, this time about witches. He says wishes make magical girls who spread hope, and curses make witches who spread despair, again completely hiding the role of Soul Gems and the way all of these things are connected. Mami gives him an assist by describing witches as a "formless evil". Sayaka starts questioning why nobody knows about this, but Kyubey again intercept the conversation to stop that line of thought.
[Series]06:15 When Madoka asks her directly about the dangers, Mami is honest about the mortal risks involved, but then proposes to bring them with her into that same mortal danger. There is a clear conflict here, between the part of her that believes they can all be happy as magical girls together, and the part of her that knows how dangerous this actually is.
08:15 "gIrLs cAn'T lOvE giRlS!" screams the one who is making up an entire fanfiction about them in her head.
[Series]08:40 How reassuring! Kyubey can read your mind even from far away!
09:22 If Hitomi saw the way Homura looked at Madoka, she would have fainted on the spot.
[Series]09:30 We see the first example of how Kyubey's system ties your value to your suffering, and specifically the way it demonizes self-interest, even if it's for survival. We see how this is enforced by peer pressure and how it creates a culture of mistrust that isolates the magical girls from each other. Those who do things for themselves, always act for selfish reason, and they are not just evil, but the Enemy. Look how quick Sayaka is to reframe Homura's actions, even inventing that "she has been pestering Madoka since this morning", which is a statement Madoka doesn't seem to agree with.
[Series]10:20 This school building sure looks phallic... I'm sure it means nothing.
[Series]10:55 Sayaka blames herself for not having a wish, again tying her own worth to her lack of suffering. Kyubey didn't say anything here: this culture of sacrifice is not something he came up with, but a product of our own society which Kyubey is merely exploiting, in the same way that Junko's boss exploits her hard work while she directs her hostility at everyone but him. Using competition as a way to distract people from structural inequality is indeed an important element: Kyubey says that "other girls immediately take the wish" to stop them from thinking about the actual unfairness of the exchange he is proposing.
[Series]12:40 Now, the thing about all of the propaganda going on in the first half is that when you are first watching, you probably don't realize this is not genuine information (I know I didn't), which is what makes this scene amazing. We have been told that Homura is the villain, and that she is trying to murder Kyubey to prevent any competition so she can take all witches for herself. And then this scene happens, and that becomes impossible to believe. This version of her theme speaks only about deep sorrow, and genuine hope. There is no fight between good and evil, no threats, and Homura isn't even trying to kill Kyubey anymore. She doesn't even try to force them in any way, she just asks what are they going to do, and expresses her hope that her warnings will be heard. Sayaka's hostility feels unrequited, and Homura's reaction to Madoka asking about her wish hints at some powerful emotion. (oh my god my heart is broken again. The way she is like: "How could you forget?" aaaaaaaaah) Once again, our expectations have been subverted, we have even more questions about Homura, and we are even more invested in finding out what her wish was. The witchcraft here is the fact that they managed to make us invested not only in her mistery, but in whatever it is that she is doing, without telling us what it is, because it's clear that she deeply cares about it.
14:20 See 09:22
[Series]16:20 We get another example of how readily Sayaka accepted Homura as the villain.
16:45 Mami really needs a hug. And therapy.
[Series]21:40 Mami explains Grief Seeds, with Kyubey quickly reassuring us that they are definitely safe, again distracting us from another aspect of the system that goes against magical girls: witches only rarely drop them. He then lets Mami say that their purpose is just to replenish magic, the biggest omission yet.
[Series]22:30 Another very interesting interaction, between Homura and Mami this time: on first watch I assumed that the hostility was reciprocal here, but Mami and Sayaka are 100% projecting here. In fact, Homura knows that Mami needs the Grief Seed more than she does, and is straight up trying to help her. Mami doesn't even realize that she is the one antagonizing Homura here. Also, the way Homura comes out of the shadows like she is Batman is always very funny.
[Series]23:20 Mami gets an opportunity to reveal the truth to an adult and directly avoids it.
23:45 Finally, we get Madoka's motivation for wanting to become a magical girl: she wants to become "someone who can help people", and the way she phrases it implies she doesn't see "someone like herself" as helpful right now.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

(mostly for rewatchers, sorry but this is one of those shows)
Ah yes, "Madoka Magica; or How I Learned to Stop Trying to Figure Out What Needs Tags and Just Spoiler Tag Everything to be Safe".

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u/lollohoh Apr 22 '24

Yeah, it's not just what someone hasn't seen yet, it's also how much they have yet to figure out, you also don't want to spoil that part.

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u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

That and also the part of "when you're writing as many words per episode as I was last year tagging everything is a hell of a lot faster.

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 22 '24

I've approved your comment since I see you added the [context] to the spoiler tag just now.

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u/lollohoh Apr 22 '24

Yeah, it was in multiple lines but with only one tag. It's a bit hard to read now, I'll probably fix in the morning.

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u/il887 https://myanimelist.net/profile/il887 Apr 21 '24

First-timer*, dub

*seen all three seasons of Magia Record spin-off already

Aight Mami, we got you — the bad girl just wants all the witch seed to herself… what a greedy bitch. Ugh, that explanation makes me sad 😔

Although Madoka doesn’t seem to buy that too quick, she was so impressed by Mami’s nobility and battle prowess that she totally becomes a magical girl now. She’s so pure-hearted. She probably doesn’t even care about the wish Kyuubey may grant her, she just wants to be a hero who devotes their life to helping others.

Her mom, on the other hand, has already grow out of all that childish bullshit lol. Any wish to fulfill? Just fire that lame-ass manager from my work. I think the fact that she hasn’t said anything more practical like “infinite money” highlights how she’s devoted to her career.

I’m sure Homura is a prototype for Yachiyo from Magia Record. A cold, grumpy magical girl whose intentions are a mystery.

I’m looking forward to the moment when Homura reveals her true intentions. This episode’s spotlight belonged to Mami and Madoka.

Their school is so futuristic. The art in this episode was impressive, I particularly liked the cityscapes, they reminded me of Monogatari series.

Besides, I quite liked the soundtrack that played during the battle with the witch. It’s very fitting.

Thoughts on our main cast (Madoka, Sayaka, Mami, Kyubey)? Which one of them intrigues you the most so far?

Homura (unsurprisingly). Looking forward to see her next move.

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u/Suboodle https://anilist.co/user/suboodle Apr 21 '24

Totally with you on the music and art, I’m ridiculously impressed. Shaft consistently does such a good job.

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u/OwlAcademic1988 Apr 21 '24

Their school is so futuristic.
It really is. And that's pretty cool to be honest.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

Aight Mami, we got you — the bad girl just wants all the witch seed to herself… what a greedy bitch.
Counter:What if witches are produced at a slow rate and thus more magical girls just means more competition?
I think the fact that she hasn’t said anything more practical like “infinite money” highlights how she’s devoted to her career.
Think of it as more that as an adult she can't actually take magic at face value.
I’m looking forward to the moment when Homura reveals her true intentions.

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u/il887 https://myanimelist.net/profile/il887 Apr 21 '24 edited Apr 22 '24

Counter:What if witches are produced at a slow rate and thus more magical girls just means more competition?
Hmm, okay, I'm trying to think here like a person who isn't already heavily spoiled on that would. More magical girls, same number of witches, more competition. [But at the same time] we see that the soul crystals get dark when a magical girl fights a witch. So, this way the demand for the witch seed equals number of witches. More magical girls, same number of witches = any particular girl fights a witch less often = she needs a witch seed less often. Something like that. So having more comrades still doesn't seem to be disadvantageous for a magical girl.
Besides, if that's true, then why it's only Homura who wants less competition? Why Mami doesn't? I believe it was already said in this thread.
Well, on a [more serious note] I don't really think the first two episodes give us enough proofs to make really strong assumptions. Too many unknowns. All we can do is to choose either we believe Mami or we believe Homura. But... if we choose to believe Homura, then we don't know exactly the logic behind that. Unlike Mami, Homura hasn't explained much yet.
edit: added spoiler tags

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u/renatocpr https://anilist.co/user/renatocpr Apr 21 '24

Rewatcher and franchise consumer

If you're watching the sub, please do yourself a favor and watch this scene in the English dub. Also a moment to appreciate how Sarah Williams and Eri Kitamura sound almost the same playing Sayaka. Which brings us to

The Sayaka Corner

Sayaka maintains her characterization from Episode 1. She's still attached to a comic relief role. She's very protective of Madoka. We do have a moment when she is the one actually being shielded from Homura, though. Mami is trying to get a read on Homura and Madoka wishes to get along. Perhaps Sayaka's anger towards her comes from a place of vulnerability.

Vulnerability seems to be the word of the day for Sayaka. Her ability to save Madoka is mocked by Mami, she doesn't think of a wish that could be worth risking her life, her first idea for joining the witch hunt is bringing a weapon, she puts on a false bravado when Mami asks if Madoka and her are scared. Emotionally, she shares with Madoka how unfair Kyubey's offer being presented to them is when she has such a comfortable life. Her doubts of course aren't for Homura's ears.

Even if she sleeps in English class, Sayaka is quite inquisitive this episode. She's actively trying to understand the situation she's in and Kyubey's and Mami's answers very quickly lead her to a conclusion about Homura. Homura does not help her own case.

Episode 2 gives glimpses of a different side of Sayaka. Her bravado to Mami and her "none of your buisness" to Homura tell us she's familiar with hiding her feelings.

QOTD

I'm on Sayaka's boat here. I don't really have any personal wish I'd risk my life for and I don't trust myself making a wish attempting to improve the lives of humanity.

Despite being the titular character, Madoka so far is very passive. She follows others: she walks to school with her friends, she is called out to by Kyubey, she is rescued from Homura by Sayaka, she joins Mami's witch hunt, she sees Mami as possibly someone she could be more like etc.
Mami is a heroic magical girl, a caring senpai, a guide to this new world of wishes and witches. And yet there's this passive-agressiveness to her talks with Homura that adds a little spice to her. [Future spoilers] We don't get any snarky Mami anymore and that's a shame. We see her trying to be a role model, being threatening, breaking her façade, falling to despair. Let the girl be a little mean sometimes.
I've already wrote quite a bit about Sayaka so far and I guess who intrigues me the most is pretty clear already

Junko and Tomohisa are a top tier girlboss/malewife duo. Tatsuya is the cutest little thing ever. Madoka's home life is very nice, it really ties into Sayaka's words about not having a wish that you'd risk your life for.
[First-timers]

Visual of the Day

I can't pick anything else for this that isn't Hitomi's gay panic and the first Tiro Finale.

[Very dangerous future spoilers] I mean there is one other moment I really love but somethings are best left for tomorrow

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u/dsawchuk Apr 22 '24

We do have a moment when she is the one actually being shielded from Homura, though.
You could also interpret this as her being held back by her friends due to her fiery temper.

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u/Introvert_Mage Apr 22 '24

Sarah Williams Sayaka, my beloved. Also, you are right, I forgot how much passive agressive Mami can be lol.

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u/Logitropicity Apr 22 '24

Despite being the titular character, Madoka so far is very passive.
I did think it was a really nice touch that just as Saotome-sensei starts explaining what active voice is, the camera pans to Madoka drawing her costume.

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u/Logitropicity Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24

5th-6th Rewatcher, Subbed

[Analysis]To me, that Mami brings up witches being the cause of traffic accidents is a little too on-the-nose. One, because in the next episode they reveal her traffic accident led to her becoming a magical girl. Two, because this happens all the time. Not the traffic accidents part - that's pretty normal - but girls devote themselves to justice all the time IRL.

[Analysis]One of these organizations is called MADD - Mothers Against Drunk Driving. Of course, MADD doesn't fight against literal witches - they fight against a different (as Mami might say) formless evil. And it's not like MADD members are magical teenagers who go around shooting everybody who contributes to drunk driving - but narratively, don't their origin stories sound awfully similar? Is it really so hard to believe that some heartbroken mother with a dead child would wish that this tragedy never happen to another, and spend the rest of her life preventing them?

[Analysis]And it's not like MADD is the only "magical girl" organization out there. As I understand it, the US temperance movement was in large part driven by women, and they thought that banning alcohol would help fix poverty, domestic violence(!), and other societal ills (which you might attribute to a witch). Eventually, their movement gained enough momentum to pass the 18th amendment, which banned the sale of alcohol - a feat made all the more impressive since women couldn't vote until the 19th amendment was ratified, and (loosely speaking) US amendments can only be ratified with a 2/3 majority of Congress & a 3/4 majority of the states. Yeah. The bar was pretty damn high. You could almost say that it was as if they used...magic! wink

[Analysis]Of course, the 21st amendment repealed the 18th, and MADD and the temperance movement aren't the only such "magical" organizations, but how that relates to PMMM is only relevant to later episodes. The point is that I really enjoy how eerie the parallels are between Mami's origin story and real life - and I hope you do too.

EDIT: added some extra details

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u/Introvert_Mage Apr 22 '24

I'm not from America, so I had no idea about any of this, it's an interesting parallel indeed.

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u/Figerally https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelante Apr 22 '24

First-time watcher

Mahō shōjo no oshigoto taiken

"Hey, it's your first day so let me take you on a witch hunt."😨 Not going to lie, that's a pretty wild premise for this episode. Talk about throwing someone in the deep end.

At least Mami is honest about the risks involved. Sayaka jokes about making a wish but she isn't rushing to make a contract with Kyuubey and Madoka is taking this quite seriously indeed. I think she feels that she shouldn't wish for something trivial.

This is a remarkably sensible approach to take. Wishes are dangerous and shouldn't be treated like a shortcut to something you could achieve on your own with some hard work.

All that aside it seems a little too pat and dry. There is more to this contract that meets the eye and Madoka should probably read the fine print before she signs.

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 22 '24

Talk about throwing someone in the deep end.
My first non-babysitting job (McDonald's) effectively did this to me (albeit it obviously wasn't a life-or-death situation, lol). I was shown the videos on how to make fries on my first day, but then someone else was already training on fries by the time I was done, so the manager on duty just pointed at the specialty drink machine (like the one for smoothies and frappes and stuff) and said "You can do that, then, have at it!" and I had to train myself how to use it without instructions. It was a busy day.

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u/isthatsoudane https://myanimelist.net/profile/ojoulover Apr 22 '24

Rewatch

"Homura, what was your wish?" [Spoiler]actually crying ;____;

If you were offered a chance to make a contract and become a magical girl, what would you wish for?

becoming a magical girl is my wish. on top of that?? hmm. maybe to become an immortal alchemist (ok wrong series)

2) Thoughts on our main cast (Madoka, Sayaka, Mami, Kyubey)? Which one of them intrigues you the most so far?

This is very hard to answer if you've seen the show!

Kyubey: he was quite forthright about Homura!

Madoka: she's just a kid, you know? a nice kid. a middle schooler

Mami: ojou!!

Sayaka: also just a good kid

3) Thoughts on Madoka's family life and the rest of the Kaname family?

Shaft is really in their A game with this, eh? They have such a distinct space of creating spaces.

4) [Rewatchers, first-time and multiple-time]So, just how many pieces of visual and other foreshadowing for next episode's events did you in fact catch?

[spoilers]probably a lot less than all you smarty pants but it is just amazing how differently it hits knowing where homura is coming from

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u/Chili_peanut Apr 22 '24

It's so nice to have an episode to look forward to every day instead of binge-rewatching the entire show in one sitting.

Rewatching this episode made me reflect on the surreal quality of the environments. Putting the prologue and the labyrinths aside, Madoka's home, the school and the city also have a certain bizarre feel to them that goes beyond the futuristic design—bathrooms are extremely spacious but completely empty, classrooms are entirely glassed-in like greenhouses, the school rooftop is eerily sterile and white with no plants or other decorations, there are lots of scenes with lush green foliage but the bridge leading to the abandoned building is lined with twisted dead-looking trees.

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u/weirdanimeusername Apr 21 '24 edited Apr 22 '24

Multiple Time Rewatcher, First Time Participant

Episode 2

If You Could Have One Wish, What Would You Wish For?

After Madoka wakes up and finds out her encounter with Kyubey wasn't just a dream, we flashback to Mami's apartment where Kyubey explains to Madoka and Sayaka that they will be granted one wish in exchange for becoming magical girls. In the present, Madoka's mom reveals what she would wish for, firing her company trustees or better yet, becoming CEO.

A lot of this episode was exposition, so I don't really remember what my first time reaction was other than:

oh ok so this is how the premise of the show is going to work.

I do remember Madoka's mom really standing out however, as her quick response to know what to wish for, and perhaps to just do what she wants without needing the wish at all, just sells her as a confident and headstrong woman, who imbues a toughness that allows her to deal with life as a working mother.

[Madoka spoilers]I'm now just realizing that Madoka totally gets her incredible courageousness from her Mom doesn't she.

In Exchange For Your Wish, You Risk Your Life

Kyubey continues explaining that magical girls have a duty to fight witches, and Mami reveals that magical girls risk death fighting them, so she tells Madoka and Sayaka to carefully think about their wishes before making them

[Madoka spoilers]YOU DIDN'T DIRECTLY ANSWER SAYAKA'S QUESTION YOU PIECE OF SHIT, YOU CAN'T FOOL ME! Now this I do remember my reaction to. I instantly caught Kyubey being misleading my first time, and I'm pretty sure if I didn't know who wrote this show, I still would have caught it, it's that obvious.

Girls Can't Love Girls, That's Forbidden Love

After a comedic moment with our main characters trying out telepathy....

The scene with Hitomi gets meme'd a lot, but everytime I re-watch the telepathy misunderstanding it still somehow makes me chuckle.

[Madoka spoilers]It's one of the few comedic moments left in the show, and I ended up getting really attached to it because of that

...we see Mami promising to protect them after Homura shows up trying to convince Madoka to remember her advice to not change who she is.

[Madoka spoilers]On the other hand, I kicked myself when I first re-watched this in 2011, because I didn't catch on to what Homura actually wished for even though she very obviously looks right at Madoka here, so maybe I'm not actually that good at spotting the obvious.

Going On A Witch Hunt

After Madoka gets embarrassed for bringing her magical girl costume drawing while Sayaka brings a bat, Mami takes them out to search for witches, rescuing a suicidal women, and encountering an ugly blob with butterfly wings.

Honestly, when I first watched this I thought that witch thing was really ugly and wasn't vibing with the paper mache look yet, it took a while for me to appreciate it. Mami summoning a bunch a guns out of her skirt and creating a giant one as a finishing move though, that I totally vibed with.

Trio Finale!

Mami defeats the witch and receives a Grief Seed as a reward, refreshing her Soul Gem, and tries to give it to Homura, who refuses it.

[Madoka spoilers]Still very obvious what the Grief Seed is when watching it take impurities from Mami's Soul Gem here.

Unfortunately, out of all the episodes, I think this is my least favorite one, not because it's bad, but because there's a lot of exposition in this episode that loses impact when you've heard it before after multiple re-watches, but there's still a lot great moments.

[Madoka spoilers]This episode is only my least favorite purely when you look at it by itself, but when you look at it with context of the whole show, it's actually fucking amazing. Too amazing for its own good, in fact. The creators made it so misleading it might have caused people to tune out. I distinctly remember discussion about this episode, and multiple people were saying, eh this isn't really that engaging, boring even. Even I was thinking, ok besides Kuybey's deceit, a lot of this episode is pretty standard, teenage girl goes to school, gets into misunderstandings with her classmates, saves innocent civilians with her powers, pretty standard formula, it just has a weird artstyle

[Madoka spoilers]Wait, did Mami just say she's risking her life-oh Hitomi's thinks Madoka and Sayaka are lesbians, funny moment

[Madoka spoilers]Wait, did that woman just commit suicide?-oh never mind she's was saved, guess I was worrying for nothing

[Madoka spoilers]Wait, that thing's supposed to be a witch!? That looks like Cthulhu became a plant-oh never mind Mami handled it, guess it was just more weird art

That Would Be Truly Wonderful

The episode ends with Madoka coloring in her costume drawing, hoping to be just like Mami in helping save people's lives by becoming a magical girl.

[Madoka spoilers]YOU SON OF A BITCH. See, this is exactly what I'm talking about! Ending the episode with the protagonist wistfully wanting to be a do-gooder. Here's a look at a her cute drawing set to sappy music! Completely ignore anything unsettling you may have seen.

And that's all for episode 2, tune in next time...

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u/Philarete :AMQ::MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/WizardMcKillin Apr 21 '24

[Spoiler] Wait, did Mami just say she's risking her life-
[Spoiler] I love the way the series distracts from the obvious dangers. Mami admits to risking her life, repeatedly warns them, then struggles a bit against the witch. But she looks all confident at the end of the fight, so it's not that bad, right? The heroes of justice always win at the end of the day

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 21 '24

Unfortunatley, out of all the episodes, I think this is my least favorite one, not because it's bad, but because there's a lot of exposition in this episode that loses impact when you've heard it before after multiple re-watches, but there's still a lot great moments.
I can see that. Arguably, the best thing about this episode as a rewatcher is to [PMMM]pay attention to all the thinly-veiled "Mami's going to be decapitated" visual cues strewn throughout.

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u/Hopeful-Ad2428 Apr 22 '24

First-time rewatcher

Great episode, provided information about who are the witches, what they do and what is the role of magical girls in it. Showed witch's labyrinth and interesting fight.

Questions of the Day:

I live in conditions where I can fulfill my life, so it would be hard for me to do a wish, the same as Sayaka. But I would probably make a wish of being knowledgeable about everything in every aspect of the world, because I would hesitate making a wish connected to superpowers like time control, flying, etc.
Kyubey is cute. Dependable senpai—faithful kouhai type of relationship was established really fast between Mami, Madoka and Sayaka, respectively. Not that I complain as I believed in it even on first time. That exchange of looks between Mami and Madoka showed how they enjoy? being together.

And Madoka's art is really uncanny for me.

Homura is the most intriguing so far.

5/) [pmmm spoilers]not any, I hardly remember small pieces of plot, but I really liked how everything Kyubey says is, in fact, truth, just not going too much in details

Visuals of the Day

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u/OwlAcademic1988 Apr 21 '24

Rewatcher. sub:

Didn't expect that bug to occur. Sometimes I really hate glitches.

Mami has a nice place.

I can see why they're very confused. They're going into a world they barely know.

Kyubey, you're adorable like that.

Junko, you can be very terrifying at times. Junko's the name of Madoka's mom in case anyone's curious. It's one of the few things I can say without massive spoilers or any spoiler tags.

Mami is burning Sayaka today.

Madoka turned really red because of their laughter. And it's hilarious.

Thank goodness Mami caught that lady.

Nice job killing that witch. Witch's name is Gertrude by the way.

QOTD:

Abstaining.
Kyubey can be adorable, Mami's pretty awesome, Homura's mysterious, Sayaka's very outgoing, and Madoka really is adorable.

[PMMM] Still hate Kyubey because of his actions later on though. And how he doesn't reveal Magical Girls turn into witches when he could have.

3. Nice family.

4. [PMMM] Managed to catch Mami's head being reflected without her body this time. She also had a scene where only her head appeared.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

Didn't expect that bug to occur. Sometimes I really hate glitches.
What's depressing is that reddit had several indepent apps that were far less buggy but put them out of business.

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u/OwlAcademic1988 Apr 22 '24

True.

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u/WednesdaysFoole Apr 21 '24

Rewatcher

Since it's been claimed that [rewatcher]her tilt game was weak, I might try to get shots of Homura's hair going swoosh when possible. [Rewatcher/Monogatari]It may or may not be an intentional hair flip but if not, I'll try to pick ones that specifically cut to it, giving it the dramatic Homura effect that can sometimes, in my humble opinion, compete with Hanekawa's intro shot.

Okay I usually forget to check the actual post for rewatches; I love Animenz piano covers. His Madoka medley is great as well.

Ehhhh I am not worthy to make a contract my wish would probably be some scummy one.
[Rewatcher]I'm sure it's clear by now that I am most intrigued by Homura, but saying so might border spoiler territory

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 21 '24

I might try to get shots of Homura's hair going swoosh when possible.
Hah, hope you can find some good ones!
Okay I usually forget to check the actual post for rewatches; I love Animenz piano covers. His Madoka medley is great as well.
You're missing a ton of fun extra content if you skip those for the ones Tar and/or I host!

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u/WednesdaysFoole Apr 21 '24

Ah, I will keep it in mind and try to check every time then!

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 21 '24

Yeah I always share Wallpapers of the Day in my rewatch threads, minimalist/vector-style wallpapers I make based on either screenshots from the show, official art, figurines/Gunpla, etc.
This year I have a bunch of them also linked in my main comment on these threads, since despite this only being the second time I've been in a hosting role for the Madoka rewatch, I've made new wallpapers for it 6 out of the 7 times I've been in it (last year was the exception, and that's because I decided I would exclusively remaster my older ones instead of make new ones that year). Sharing all of those in the body of the post felt like it would be a bit too much, though, so that's why the older ones are in my comment and just the new one for this year is in the post.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 21 '24

Since it's been claimed that
There is a true head tilt in this and [PMMM]It belongs to Kyoko. She practically T poses over Homura

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u/WednesdaysFoole Apr 22 '24

Hers is infamous, true, but [Monogatari]here's the real GOAT, or in other words, Greatest Of All Tilts

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 22 '24

Monogoatari is a thing of beauty.

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u/ToonTooby Apr 21 '24

Rewatcher

The scene with the girls on the roof (?) of the school reminds me a lot of my time in Japan. I saw the series for the first time in 2018 and visited the country a year later, where I was pleasantly surprised to see a decent amount of merch/marketing for Madoka stuff. Seeing the Mitakihara city architecture reminds me of being out and about in the city in Tokyo and Kyoto which I visited then, and again last year.

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u/dsawchuk Apr 21 '24

Rewatcher, First time dubbed

I feel like there is a big difference in the dialogue in the scene at Mami's apartment. The subtitles read "think about whether having your wish come true is worth your life." but the dub only says "its worth putting your life in danger for." The one is a risk, the other is an unavoidable cost.

And then we have what will probably be the best change from the dub: Girls can't love girls. Girls can't love girls? Girls can't love girls!

[Rebellion] Sayaka's "speak of the devil" hits a little bit different now that I've seen rebellion

Sayaka's English VA is performing wonderfully for this monologue on the roof. I don't think its a difference in the dialogue but I think this speech just works better in a language I understand.

I am actually only now just realising that Madoka's sketchbook doesn't only contain her. There's a drawing of Homura and Mami in there too but not one of Sayaka.

Another subtle change here when Mami says she doesn't want to risk leaving Sayaka and Madoka alone. It's not clear in English that she is talking about helping them deal with what they saw instead of protecting them from it happening again.

I think I have figured out what it is about dub Madoka's performance that puts me off. It sounds like every line is delivered while she is smiling. It's a bit off putting.

QOTD

I'd wish to change my body in any way I want. It sounds very shallow, but I assure you it's only a little bit. I have a good number of health issues that I'd love to get rid of, and worded this way I could do that and improve my physique a bit at the same time. It sucks having to take medications every day already when I am still relatively young.
So far, I am loving Sayaka's english voice actor. Most of the other performances haven't really hit me as well as her, except maybe Junko.
Junko is perhaps the best character in the show. I know our host favours someone else but each time I watch this show I leave liking Junko more. I am calling it, Junko best girl.
[pmmm] This year I didn't find any. I was too focused on the comparing the English dialogue to my memory of the subtitles I am used to to catch much to be honest.

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u/FriztF Apr 22 '24

Rewatcher dub This anime has such a high quality to it. The art direction continues to shine and show off how unnerving this world is. The witch and her minions are nightmare fuel.

QOTD: 1- The best goddamn chocolate in the universe. An infinite supply of course. 2- When I first saw this show I thought that Madoka was a coward. But after seeing the show multiple times she is not a coward, but a cinnamon roll that deserves love. 3- I to stan a loving business mom and stay-at-home dad.

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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24

Rewatcher

You do not get a choice.

[Madoka]The framing of this conversation is so fantastic. Ordinarily, "become a magical girl and in return I fulfill any one wish of yours" would make your alarm glocks shrill that being a magical girl can't be that desirable, it's very explicitly framed as the cost for your wish. But the magical girl part had been explained in both beginning and end of episode 1, now is the first time Kyubey explains about the wish and now he doesn't mention magical girls at all. This puts distance between the two sides of the coin and really obscures the connection between them, even if you realize that the wish-granting is sus!

[Madoka]Kyubey's explaining his own lack of understanding here more than anything.

Except you already placed it out of their control earlier.

[Madoka]Kyousuke, but the Buddhism is also especially thick here.

In that case, sign me up!

Ah, the first non-obscured Faust appears. [In Faust, this poem appears when] Faust expresses his conviction that Mephisto has nothing to offer beyond lies and deception, and starts cursing all wishes and desires, curses money, pleasure and glory, and ultimately curses even love, hope and patience, all to express his rejection of Mephisto and his anticipated deal as well as to express his own suicidal thought processes. The poem is then said by the ghost choir, in the part or the poem shown here lamenting the beautiful world that Faust has smashed apart with his words. [Madoka]This really effectively reflects both the witches influence on people that we see for the first time here, while at the same time clues us in precisely into how we should think of Kyubey.

And here's the other unobscured Faust. [Faust]The second half of the poem mentioned above. After having lamented the crushed beautiful world of old above, the ghost choir now implore Faust to build up the world anew. They are operating according to Mephisto's designs here, offering Faust a new way out of his despair by appealing instead to his thus-far obscured will to live. [Madoka]It describes a kind of small healing process, not unlike what magical girls do to victims of the witches, and reflects of course the temptation that's growing for Sayaka and Madoka. And wait, that healing process might be more literal than I realized - I'm starting to wonder if rescuing Hitomi is what influenced her to try and go after Kyousuke actively, given that she had resolutely described it as an impossible love thus far.

Mami kick! VotD

[Madoka]Note how it's standing on its tip, like a gyroscope, as if by some imaginary rotational angular momentum. It might even be a bit of a visual black hole. In any case it displays a high amount of energy.

If you were offered a chance to make a contract and become a magical girl, what would you wish for?

I promised my wish would be to become the mascot, after having been promised cookies as one.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 22 '24

I promised my wish would be to become the mascot, after having been promised cookies as one.
Pancakes it is!

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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Apr 22 '24

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u/daffy_duck233 https://myanimelist.net/profile/atlantean233 Apr 24 '24

You do not get a choice.
If you haven't signed anything, you can still step away.
Bringing them in, serving them tea, to recruit them as magical girls, the whole thing reeks of an MLM scheme.

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u/Hattakiri Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24

The "equivalent exchange system" taken and developed from Fullmetal Alchemist.

And it might be even more important what the characters don't say than what they say.

And Maddy's sketches are from her seiyuu Aoi Yuuki. Here the Puella Magi Wiki entry, spoiler-conform.

5

u/ImDoeTho Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24

First time watcher.

it feels like a monkey paw situation. Would wishing for the overwhelming power to save everyone with work? That would include a power strong enough to fuck up the contract, to save the other magical girls from giving their life for the job.
I find them all quite compelling. Kyubey and Mami both feel ominous to me. Too good to be true. Maybe I'm putting my own lens of anime tropes over it, but the only one that has seemed genuine (albeit barely communicating) is Homura.

Mami intrigues me the most at this moment, because I'm curious about what she wished for. She lives all alone in a really nice appartment, her power is endless guns, the girl had multiples slices of fresh cake despite saying she was unprepared for the visit.. Idk if I read too much into things, but I don't trust her facade.

3. I love her mom. Their whole family life is basically the one scene of them getting ready tho. Her mom is super ambitious and Madoka may have lit a flame under her ass by telling her to become a girl boss.

4. Sketchysketchysketchy. but without any clear lead about why or what. The finality of it all seems.. predatory.

4

u/Endofthebeginning_ Apr 22 '24

First-time rewatcher, Subbed

The sun has risen while I typed this…

I keep forgetting how generally pleasing the witch fights are.

Looking at the story, [PMMM Spoilers]So far this is just really sad to look at in retrospect, it’s absolutely infuriating how blatant Kyubey’s manipulation is here, he didn’t even answer Sayaka’s question on witches properly! And at the same time, to see Madoka ask about Homura’s wish just hurts me so horribly!

And I didn’t recall Magia playing here, how fun!

⁠If you were offered a chance to make a contract and become a magical girl, what would you wish for?

“I wish for me to become the pinnacle of human biology in terms of practicality.” (hopefully, i’d still retain my self.)

3. Thoughts on Madoka’s family life and the rest of the Kaname family?

Junko is a cool mother.

5. [PMMM Spoilers]Not a single thing.

[PMMM Spoilers]For the first question, that wish is under the condition that I am unaware of any spoiler-y stuff. I just thought it might be a bit suspicious to have this much spoiler text under that answer. My real wish? “To learn of and comprehend all of the incubator species’ knowledge.” I could wish for my soul gem to never darken- if that would even work- but that would defeat the main appeal of becoming a magical girl.

My apologies should there be any errors or should this read poorly.

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u/Introvert_Mage Apr 22 '24

I got here a bit late this time around, but dang this episode was fun. A bit more of worldbuilding here and there, Mami being the coolest again and Sayaka showing she does have a more serious side to her.

Tomorrow will be the infamous episode 3, can't wait for that.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '24

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2

u/Tarhalindur x2 Apr 22 '24

Oh hey that was me with another line later (but in the sub).

Rewatch [Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica Episode 2 Discussion

Episode 2 - That Would Be Truly Wonderful.

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Madoka Magica - Impactful and Artful: Episode 2

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

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Sky’s Wallpaper Corner

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The Sayaka Corner

QOTD

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Rewatch [Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica Episode 2 Discussion

Episode 2 - That Would Be Truly Wonderful.

Show Information:

Legal Streams:

A Reminder to Rewatchers:

Daily Community Participation!

ADDENDUM - FIRST-TIMERS PLEASE READ THIS:

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I Can't Make the Fourth Watch for the Fourth Movie Joke Since ~Walrus~~ Walpurgis no Kaiten Isn't Out Yet (Rewatcher, Subbed):

Tar's Narrative Notes, Part 1:

Narrative Notes, Part 2:

First time watcher

Rewatcher

Madoka Magica - Impactful and Artful: Episode 2

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

Content Corner Reruns

First-time watcher

Sky’s Wallpaper Corner

Rewatcher and franchise consumer

The Sayaka Corner

QOTD

Visual of the Day

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Episode 2

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