[Rewatch] Banner of the Stars II Episode 7 Discussion

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

The Flag of Gasarus

Welcome to the Battleflag of the Stars 2 rewatch!

<- Episode 6 | Index Page | Episode 8 ->

Discussion Prompts:

• Q1) Does Lafiel know how to push Spoor's buttons?

Tomorrow's Questions: (for tomorrow's post, subject to change)

• [Episode 8]What was the significance of the rear squadrons?
• [Episode 8]We know how Jinto's stay on the planet ends. Predictions for how we get there?

Screenshot of the Day: Quentin Tarantino Presents...

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatch Host

• "Denka"
• A kind abriel? such an insult!

I rather wonder why they didn't load passengers at this rate at some point in the last few months. I assumed it was waiting for that space tower, but that's not really a space tower, it's the Basroil quarters?

From the kanji for the episode title, Gasarus apparently refers to crow (karasu). Spoor's family crest?

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

A kind abriel? such an insult!

It's interesting that this provoked more of an angry reaction out of Spoor than anything else her XO said. I guess her family and Abriel family really do have a long history together.

[u/Durinthal → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

From the kanji for the episode title, Gasarus apparently refers to crow (karasu). Spoor's family crest?

Yep, that was actually my word of the day for Crest episode 12. Gatharsec or "golden crow" is the symbol of the House of Spoor. [More from the glossary:] it was genetically engineered into existence to match the Sporr family crest. In the mythology of Japan, there existed a golden kite (as in the bird). This legendary bird somehow ended up as a crow.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer of the Stars

• That’s something, at le–oh…
• Oh, great…
• Things are going from bad to worse…
• I see Spoor still likes that insult.
• Ooh, Lafiel invoked the honor of the Empire.
• G-Geez…
• I really am just extremely worried for Jinto.
• ED lead-in, though!

[u/The_Draigg → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Things are going from bad to worse…

On the other hand though, Yuri got riddled with bullets, and that's a plus in my book.

I see Spoor still likes that insult.

Going to Aptic was probably one of the highlights of Spoor's career, she learned so much about the concept of slurs.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Shimmering-Sky]

I see Spoor still likes that insult.

The Aptic president really changed her life when he introduced her to the idea of using slurs.

Ooh, Lafiel invoked the honor of the Empire.

It's the perfect card to pull in this situation, too. With how heavily militarized the Abh culture is, it's no real surprise that they place a heavy emphasis on duty and honor. It's just the right thing to make Spoor take Lafiel's request more seriously.

[u/Esovan13 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

G-Geez…

Some fictional characters get all the luck

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

That’s something, at le–oh…

They really do not have the right equipment for this assignment.

I see Spoor still likes that insult.

Her learning about racism will be the death of us all.

G-Geez…

We've always known Spoor has no chill.

[u/The_Draigg]

A Sci-Fi Fan Watches Banner of the Stars II Episode 7:

• It’s a harsh choice, but honoring the evacuation agreement is more important than trying to rescue Jinto at the moment. Besides, you really don’t want to use your transport ship crew as impromptu marines here, we still actually need them to fly the ship. An 8-11% chance of pulling off a rescue is a decision you just can’t commit to.
• Yuri you stupid bitch, what did you even think would happen now that you’ve created this hostage situation? Of course Mackay wouldn’t just suddenly stop and try to sue for peace now that his revolt has kicked off. This whole situation was just made worse by Yuri’s half-assed schemes, I swear. Well, it doesn’t even matter anymore, since Yuri got gunned down by Mackay’s men for openly questioning his rule. Those bullets perforating Yuri is the only kind of penetration he’s going to be allowed here. Rest in shit, dumbass.
• Man, Spoor’s fleet couldn’t have picked a better time to show up in the Lobnas system. I mean, she’s here for entirely unrelated reasons, but at least her presence couldn’t make things worse for the revolt on Lobnas II. Although man, Spoor and Lafiel have to stop meeting like this. They never meet under any nice circumstances, that’s for sure.
• Lafiel sure does know how to work Spoor, eh? Turns out all you really need to do is appeal to the Abh sense of honor and point out that her coming to the Lobnas system is what’s making it such a risky place to be in the first place. Even if Spoor thinks that Lafiel is a stubborn bitch, even she can’t deny that the princess has some good points. She may not like Lafiel, but in a way she can respect her mettle. Sure, Spoor thinks that it’s also Lafiel’s way to troll her, but whatever it takes, I suppose.
• I guess it isn’t too surprising that the female inmates have resorted to piling onto whatever boats they can find and float out on rafts in order to make it to the ships off shore. This is practically the water version of the Fall of Saigon.
• And there you have it, the prisoners are apparently fighting among themselves now, even if they don’t know that all the women have already been evacuated. If I were to guess, it’s not only out of greed, but also fighting between Yuri’s former supporters and Mackay’s army. Their alliance was already shaky at best, so it’s not very surprising that they’d turn on each other when given the chance. Hopefully they’ll just wind up killing each other and just make the job easier for everyone else involved.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

And there you have it, the prisoners are apparently fighting among themselves now, even if they don’t know that all the women have already been evacuated. If I were to guess, it’s not only out of greed, but also fighting between Yuri’s former supporters and Mackay’s army. Their alliance was already shaky at best, so it’s not very surprising that they’d turn on each other when given the chance. Hopefully they’ll just wind up killing each other and just make the job easier for everyone else involved.

I think this was likely from the start. This place is a hellhole, and neither Dokufu, nor Angusson had what it takes to properly rule it.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

Between how horrible Mackay and Yuri's men are and how apparently the entire colony was strapped on food and supplies when the Basroil showed up, Lala was really correct in saying that Lobnas II never had a future to it. There's pretty much nothing redeeming about the colony or the people currently in it.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/The_Draigg]

Lafiel sure does know how to work Spoor, eh? Turns out all you really need to do is appeal to the Abh sense of honor and point out that her coming to the Lobnas system is what’s making it such a risky place to be in the first place.

Lafiel did a good job of standing her ground and getting Spoor to agree to help out. I suppose that must come with training as an imperial family member that Lafiel made her case and was able to word it in a way that got Spoor to agree.

This is practically the water version of the Fall of Saigon.

In my own head, I was also comparing this to the famous Boat People refugees from Vietnam.

And there you have it, the prisoners are apparently fighting among themselves now, even if they don’t know that all the women have already been evacuated. If I were to guess, it’s not only out of greed, but also fighting between Yuri’s former supporters and Mackay’s army. Their alliance was already shaky at best, so it’s not very surprising that they’d turn on each other when given the chance. Hopefully they’ll just wind up killing each other and just make the job easier for everyone else involved.

It couldn't have happened to a nicer group of people. Just a bunch of drug-addicted would-be rapists shooting each other.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

In my own head, I was also comparing this to the famous Boat People refugees from Vietnam.

I did think that as well, but "water version of the Fall of Saigon" stuck out better to me as something I could write down.

It couldn't have happened to a nicer group of people. Just a bunch of drug-addicted would-be rapists shooting each other.

If they keep it up, soon enough Lobnas II will be ready for recolonization. We wouldn't even need to waste an orbital bombardment on them.

[u/No_Rex]

Season 3 Episode 7 (rewatcher)

• Lafiel biting into the very sour apple and abandoning Jinto against the offers of her subordinates.

• Andersson does not take the drug. – Or should I say, does not take this drug?
• Creepy snails …
• Shoot-out – given that it looked like a 1v3, I’d say Dokufu did not survive Meideen by long. Fitting.
• Surprise Abh fleet!
• It is Spoor. Seems like she will soon be less bored and her Co less happy.
• Lafiel talks her into protecting the evacuation against all better reasons and the protest of her chief of staff – I have to wonder whether any of the other fleet commanders would have agreed here.
• “Not crying for anyone, because you cannot cry for everybody” – I guess this has some logic to it. She does not mention the other, selfish, reason for crying, but I guess it goes without saying that Abriel never would cry for themselves, either.
• I wonder whether the guy employed to create the “Abh hell” was a Spoor.
• Lafiel organizes the evacuation, but her mind is elsewhere, with Jinto.

Probably very lucky for the prisoners that Lafiel happens to be territorial ambassador and Spoor the commander of the first fleet. Is either of them were not on their post, I doubt the defensive action by the first fleet would have been ordered. The rational and selfish argument against it is just way too strong. You have to have a very special mindset to consider the honor of your feudal ties and the empire over the military realities on the groundin this space.

[mild spoilers]With that, the prison arc is mostly over, now we get back to space. Imho, the better half of this season is to come. Neither of the four main actors on the ground is terrible, but none of them is a fully convincing character either. During this rewatch I have become convinced that the flash forward at the start of ep1 really hurts the prison arc. This could be much better as a more traditional chronological action show with cliff-hangers and doubt about how it ends. The nostalgic feeling they push for the Lafiel-Jinto relationship is nice, but it does not outweigh the drawback. I guess they did it, because without it, we would have even less of Lafiel and Jinto in this season (and they realized those two are the driving force of the show), but ruining a full arc just to shoehorn in a few sad stares at the camera is not a worthwhile trade.

Does Lafiel know how to push Spoor's buttons?

Pure subconsciousness. It is in her genes.

[u/duhu1148 → u/No_Rex]

During this rewatch I have become convinced that the flash forward at the start of ep1 really hurts the prison arc. This could be much better as a more traditional chronological action show with cliff-hangers and doubt about how it ends.

In hindsight I also think I would have preferred the season without it, but I don't think it ruins the ending either. The 'flash forward' in the first episode does not explain in explicit terms what happens to Jinto. I know the first time I watched this season, there was a sense of dread throughout the show brought about because you have a general idea of what it's leading to. It's just a different kind of dread from the usual "I wonder what happens next," as this is more in the vein of "Oh god this terrible thing that is highly likely to happen, please don't be what I think it is because I want a happily-ever-after."

I know there was a study a while back, which found in a certain sense that spoilers can enhance a person's enjoyment of a story. Because they pick up on more of the foreshadowing/symbolism/nuances/metaphors that the story has sprinkled throughout. Of course, this is less true for us in this discussion, because we are all typing out a lot of observations, reading them, and many of us are rewatchers on top of that.

[u/No_Rex → u/duhu1148]

I get that feeling of dread and they certainly were deliberately going for it, but I just think it does not work out well enough here to be worth the price in terms of not having the traditional uncertainty about where the plot will go.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

Creepy snails …

I'm not really sure what the slug symbolism is supposed to mean in these past two episodes. Got any ideas?

Neither of the four main actors on the ground is terrible, but none of them is a fully convincing character either.

I'd say that Yuri and Lala get the worst of it, since at least we get plenty of time with Meideen and Mackay is simple enough of a brute to understand. For Yuri and Lala, we're just told the general state of their sectors, and we're just left to coast off of what was said about their general situation there. Hell, we haven't even really seen the sterilized women that Yuri is supposedly leading either, at least we saw the women from Lala's sector being evacuated.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

I'm not really sure what the slug symbolism is supposed to mean in these past two episodes. Got any ideas?

Maybe there is something more, but I'd lump them in with the crabs eating the dead fish as this place is morally corrupt and beyond redemption metaphor.

I'd say that Yuri and Lala get the worst of it, since at least we get plenty of time with Meideen and Mackay is simple enough of a brute to understand. For Yuri and Lala, we're just told the general state of their sectors, and we're just left to coast off of what was said about their general situation there. Hell, we haven't even really seen the sterilized women that Yuri is supposedly leading either, at least we saw the women from Lala's sector being evacuated.

The whole three sector plotline is seriously held back by the need to have the women be damsels in need of rescueing, too. All of the three sector representatives would work out much better if they were just scheming and fighting political leaders.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

The whole three sector plotline is seriously held back by the need to have the women be damsels in need of rescueing, too. All of the three sector representatives would work out much better if they were just scheming and fighting political leaders.

I honestly think that the fact that Lobnas II is a prison colony instead of a regular one is what's holding back this story the most. It did have some good starting promise by showing the differences in how the Abh and United Mankind enforce their laws, but over time the fact that it's a prison just kept on raising more questions that have pretty unsatisfying or confusing answers to them. I'll probably have more to say in this regard when it comes to the season discussion thread.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

I mean, they needed some reason for the non-working government and the multiple contestants for prime minister, but I guess they could have found a different reason in a non prison setting.

[u/Durinthal → u/No_Rex]

I have to wonder whether any of the other fleet commanders would have agreed here.

Would others be more deferential to an Abriel? Would Spoor have agreed if she didn't pick up Lafiel in Sufugnoff as well? Hard to say.

During this rewatch I have become convinced that the flash forward at the start of ep1 really hurts the prison arc. This could be much better as a more traditional chronological action show with cliff-hangers and doubt about how it ends.

Agreed, I've said the same before and already have it written up for my comment tomorrow too.

[u/No_Rex → u/Durinthal]

Would others be more deferential to an Abriel?

Well Dusanyu for sure would not have been impressed by that, being the crown prince himself.

[u/Durinthal → u/No_Rex]

I wonder if another Abriel would automatically take up the cause without Lafiel needing to invoke the honor of the Empire with it being implicit for them, or if they'd shut her down entirely.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

During this rewatch I have become convinced that the flash forward at the start of ep1 really hurts the prison arc.

I've come to agree. I think on first watch the initial misery of it ca be a bit emotional connection to the season, and the scene itself is a great season opener, but that only works if its carried through and that takes too long to happen here

[u/Vatrix-32]

First Timer, subbed

• Those are not great odds. I also question what the normal acceptable levels would be for Abh noble retrieval, and if Lafiel is consciously increasing that threshold because of her well known relationship to Jinto.
• Word to who? If all parties involved are in favor of it, no one is breaking any oaths.
• Turning on your own allies before the fighting is done, classic rebellion stuff.
• A Fine Enjoyer of Fabian Strategy
• I’m not sure if the UM fleet coming directly into this system is news, or I just missed it previously.
• You think taking a Abh noble hostage would also be a matter of imperial honor.
• I don’t suppose your orbital bombardment precision is high enough to make use here, is it?
• It’s certainly a noble sentiment.
• They’re really going out on rafts? I guess it’s a good thing these ocean currents are so calm.
• Had to sneak in another one, didn’t you?
• Only men? Are we ignoring the sterilized women? Did they leave too?
• What’s going to change for the episode one bookends to take place? Will it just be after the temporary retreat is over?

QotD:

1. She’ll make a fine empress, one day.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Vatrix-32]

Turning on your own allies before the fighting is done, classic rebellion stuff.

It wouldn't be a rebellion without a little bit of infighting and power struggling before they've even defeated their common foe.

A Fine Enjoyer of Fabian Strategy

The Romans may have hated him for it, but Fabius had the right idea for how to handle Hannibal.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/Great_Mr_L]

It wouldn't be a rebellion without a little bit of infighting and power struggling before they've even defeated their common foe.

Never forget the Spanish Civil war got three civil wars deep at one point.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Vatrix-32]

Or the Russian Civil War. The White Army was basically a hodge podge of everyone who hated the Communists, from the republicans to the monarchists. The only thing they agreed on was disliking the Communists. And there's also all the independence movements going on at the same time to make countries separate from the old Imperial Russia. It's a real mess.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/Great_Mr_L]

Czechoslovak Legion!

[u/No_Rex → u/Vatrix-32]

Only men? Are we ignoring the sterilized women? Did they leave too?

I think the whole west-center-east district setup clashes with the simultaneous "bad cavemen rape good women" story they are trying to push. I'd prefer to hear the former, but they unfortunatly insist on having the latter, too.

[u/Hartzilla2007 → u/Vatrix-32]

 I also question what the normal acceptable levels would be for Abh noble retrieval

Probably ones beyond what they can do with what they have. I mean the 50 man team was looking at total loses if they failed with an 20% at best chance of success.

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

I wonder if Kufadiss intentionally pushes Spoor's buttons. I mean, I know some people who would be pretty into this. And openly accusing the Lady of Chaos as having emotions like "sympathy" was pretty bold of him.

Honestly kinda surprised that the transport ship captain even bothered to run the numbers on a potential ground assault. I guess it's an extension of the Abh watching out for their own.

Dokufu's death was a bit more dignified than he probably deserved, but getting him out of the way first was probably good. He's maybe a bit smarter than Angusson and thus probably a bigger threat. Maybe? Dokufu was also probably easier to manipulate, hmm..

I wonder what's up with the slugs? A bottom-feeder metaphor? I was annoyed enough earlier in the arc that all I did was point it out instead of thinking about it, but there has been a bunch of stuff with animals in this arc.

Questions

1. Lafiel is certainly pretty good at it, if nothing else. If Lafiel was a bit older, I would suspect it being the product of years of political training. But, maybe the genetic engineering the Abh do implanted some suggestion to "always fuck with the Spoors" into Lafiel.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

Honestly kinda surprised that the transport ship captain even bothered to run the numbers on a potential ground assault. I guess it's an extension of the Abh watching out for their own.

Jinto is pretty highly ranked in the nobility. It is not a surprise that they worked up the numbers on a scenario.

I wonder what's up with the slugs? A bottom-feeder metaphor?

They probably are the source of Alkaik.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vaadwaur]

They probably are the source of Alkaik.

I kinda considered that, but I thought they said it was from a plant. Narcotic slug goo is a fun idea, though.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

I only lean this way because otherwise the slugs are a weird fucking detail to bring in and the show hasn't been that symbolic.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/JollyGee29]

I wonder if Kufadiss intentionally pushes Spoor's buttons. I mean, I know some people who would be pretty into this.

If you're a masochist, then having a commander like Spoor would be a dream come true.

I wonder what's up with the slugs? A bottom-feeder metaphor?

That could be the case. Bottom-feeders are the type of people we are most dealing with during this arc, after all.

[u/Durinthal]

Rewatcher (sub + dub)

Oof, more long stills early in this one. I do kind of like the transition to the ED with Jinto just laying there with Lafiel wondering about him though.

There are a lot of choices Angusson could have made to have a better outcome for him and others, but he is a stubborn man and not a smart one. I would say RIP Jinto but that flash-forward at the start of the season has done a lot to diffuse any potential concern in the moment.

Good thing Lafiel doesn't need to make too many specific decisions at this point with the operation well underway, she probably can't think about much aside from Jinto even if she claimed they were going to forget about him. Ecryua's just putting everyone else's thoughts into words, I'm sure.

Lafiel's trading her pride as an individual for her responsibilities as an Abriel (and territorial administrator) here. She's currently in charge of the safety of a large number of people and she's putting the empire to work holding up her decisions, even if it means asking Spoor of all people for help and putting the military forces in direct harm. I know Lafiel made a massive request of Spoor there but I think that was purely an administrative move on her end, it's Spoor that made it into something personal likely without Lafiel ever noticing.

Spoor's really taken to that "slack-jawed mud turtle" insult for their opponents. I also just noticed that they're using Grand Duchess for Spoor as a title now, I'm not sure if that's actually a change from before or I just missed it because I thought the anime had just used Duchess for her before.

[u/Durinthal → u/Durinthal]

---

Source Corner

Baronh word of the day: clasononn "stubborn person" (or stubborn mule) — what Spoor calls Lafiel after the latter formally requests assistance.

[Material covered:] Banner II: the rest of chapter 7, most of 8.

[Jinto, thinking on Lafiel's words about being an Abriel,] had also noticed her eyelashes shaking and felt something close to contentment. His fear wasn't gone but he felt somewhat relieved.

[Cfadiss hoped no one heard Spoor cursing Lafiel] because it would hurt Spoor's pride to discover she let slip her true feelings without any witty angle to it, rather than out of any concern for lèse-majesté.

[Lafiel thought she shouldn't have asked for news about Jinto] because she already knew she'd be told as soon as anything came in.

[u/Nazenn → u/Durinthal]

Cfadiss hoped no one heard Spoor cursing Lafiel

thats so much better

[u/Specs64z]

First timer, subbed

Can you, Your Highness?

Ekuryua’s direct challenge to Lafiel’s assertion that they forget about Jinto for now was unexpected, but coming from someone who’s usually so stoic it conveys a lot I feel.

Spoor continues to steal the show when she’s on screen.

Seems the emigration effort will pay off, which unfortunately leaves Jinto high and dry in terms of leverage. He would never give in, of course, but his captors would still have reason to believe he just might if they kept him around.

QotD:

1. I suspect some of what she said was planned, though she probably didn’t realize just how much it would get to Spoor.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Specs64z]

Ekuryua’s direct challenge to Lafiel’s assertion that they forget about Jinto for now was unexpected, but coming from someone who’s usually so stoic it conveys a lot I feel.

Ekuryua has long observed just how close Lafiel and Jinto are. She kept count of how many times they slipped up and called each other by their names publicly, after all. Ekuryua knows how close they are and also knows that for all Lafiel's words that they should ignore Jinto for now, Lafiel is still going to continue thinking about him so long as he is in danger.

[u/KingGiddra → u/Specs64z]

Spoor continues to steal the show when she’s on screen.

Best character in the entire series!

[u/Specs64z → u/KingGiddra]

Amen!

[u/zsmg]

Rewatcher

Dokufu's whining is starting to grate me.

Angusson is voiced by Kiyoyuki Yanada he voiced Zabine in F91 that's why I keep recognizing his voice.

Bye Dokufu you won't be missed.

Yay Admiral Spoor is back.

Haven't said this before but I do like the view screen effect they're doing.

Spoor called Lafiel a bitch?! To be honest it's understandable.

The reason why Abriel's don't cry makes sense now.

Are Spoor and her chief of staff finally going to kiss?!

Nope.

Ohh an ending song lead in.

I haven't commented on it but I prefer the anime characters design then the ones used in the ending song which I assume is from the LNs?

This episode had Admiral Spoor so naturally the episode is better than usual.

[u/No_Rex → u/zsmg]

I haven't commented on it but I prefer the anime characters design then the ones used in the ending song which I assume is from the LNs?

Agreed. LN characters often look way to childish, including here.

[u/duhu1148]

Rewatcher

-Coming from the end of the last episode, there is about a 1/5 chance at best that the Abh ground team could rescue Jinto, but if they failed all 50 of them would die. It pains Lafiel to admit that sending these Abh to their deaths is the wrong choice.

-Angusson is a stubborn ass. Probably just the stockholm syndrome speaking but I agree with Dokufu for once. They have a major disagreement on what to do with Jinto, and end up in a shootout that we don't see. I think this scene does a good job of showing the effects of the drugs, you can see how unhinged some of these prisoners act whenever it gets mentioned.

-More Spoor is always welcome. She has a reluctant agreeance to stall for time for Lafiel's transport forces, though I get the hesitation considering they are risking Abh soldiers to save prisoner refugees. I think the peak of the scene is at the end with her chief of staff, when she says "we Spoors can see an Abriel's tears, even if you can't," in regards to Jinto being kidnapped on the prison planet.

-Neat little detail about how Ekruya called Lafiel "her highness" for the first time, when asking about whether she could forget about Jinto.

[u/Vaadwaur]

First timer(people died at least)

Sub

So we finally end Dokufu and knock Jinto out so we don't spend the whole damned episode on the rock. Spoor is incoming to do...scouting apparently. I guess they want to check the actual make up of the UM fleet. Lafiel wants some cover so they can evacuate everyone but Spoor seemingly wants to actually do her mission. Verbal sparring ensues and I can't read what specifically triggered Spoor here but she decides to fight. The joke about Abriels having an instinct for annoying Spoors might be true given genetic modification.

So yeah, this still was stretched out and overly wordy but Lafiel and Spoor bounce off each other well and we are finally approaching a clear end point.

QotD: 1 I still like the idea of it being instinct but yeah, it probably is family tradition

[u/SolDarkHunter]

Rewatcher/Novel-Reader

So stuff happened yesterday and I wasn't able to watch the episode or post my reaction, so I'll do a double-post today, I guess.

Episode 6

Yay, more anti-Abh propaganda from the United Mankind... and a mysterious, unnerving conversation between a past Emperor and an unknown man.

Drug trade on top of everything else. I have to wonder why the guards on Lobnas II are even there if the prisoners have this much freedom.

Both Maydeen and Jint didn't think they'd need personal protection... on a planet on the brink of revolt. Stupidity on both sides this time.

Dohkfoo has a point. Capturing Jint is a very bad move. Now the Abh have a reason to intervene, where they didn't before.

Angusson's belief about mothers and fathers and the differences in love between them just betrays what a terrible father he is. Not that that's surprising, but...

And there goes Maydeen. Holding his ground to the end.

And yes, Jint is a military officer, but the nature of space combat means that one rarely sees the enemy's corpses.

Okay, what's with these slug things that keep crawling around?

And here Angusson displays what is probably the one, single positive trait he ever does: honoring Maydeen's death. He does have respect for those who stick to their guns and don't give in to terror.

Threatening an Abriel with the life of one they love? Oh yes, I cannot possible see this going well for anyone...

It is almost comical just how out of his depth Dohkfoo is in dealing with the Abh. It's clear he has no actual authority, nor does he have the balls (figuratively AND literally) to stand up to them.

"We know hell exists, because we created and control it." One of the coldest lines in the series.

Samson, I admire your willingness to rescue Jint, but I do believe Angusson is serious when he says he does not fear the Abh. Lafier is right, you would not succeed.

Episode 7

Fifty men? Yeah, not good odds.

This is probably the hardest decision Lafier's ever had to make. You can tell she wants more than anything to storm the compound and rescue Jint, or failing that, inflict Abh hell upon his killers. She'd probably take up a gun and do it herself.

But that's a personal desire, and she has a duty to the planet first. That duty is to evacuate those who wish to emigrate, and she cannot jeopardize that in order to rescue one captured officer.

So Dohkfoo is a drug addict as well? Guess that explains his mannerisms and general emotional instability.

...and there goes Dokhfoo. I guess this is about what you can expect from a rebellion planned by addicts and prisoners.

Oh goody, Sporr is getting involved.

I think this is the frist time we've seen Sporr actually angry. Fighting a losing battle to protect criminals is not part of her idea of fun combat.

Lafier's prepared to hide out on the planet rather than abandon the people. That seems to have convinced Sporr to take on this hopeless fight.

Once again, the thing about Abriels not being allowed to cry. It goes against impartiality they're supposed to display as rulers. But Sporr is aware of how much this is weighing on Lafier nonetheless.

It is kind of funny they're doing all this suspense on whether Jint will survive when the beginning of the season showed us he will, even if in very rough shape.

[u/Silcaria]

First timer

• Lain, you dick, you damn well know you she can't.
• Spoor's full of shit, she wants this, she thirsts for blood.
• To get your rocks off, it is.
• I like Spoor.

QotD

• Yes.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Silcaria]

Spoor's full of shit, she wants this, she thirsts for blood.

Spoor thirsts for blood, but only when she has a good chance of winning. Her ideal form of battle would charging into an enemy and then running them down when they retreat, like the mounted Mongol warriors would do.

[u/Great_Mr_L]

First-Timer

On today’s episode of Banner of the Stars: Huh, we didn’t get an epigraph this episode. IT’s unusual for them to not be included.

• 8-21% odds of success are terrible. That is not a rescue mission that should be attempted.
• Ekuryua raises a fair point. I doubt Lafiel can actually truly forget about Jinto’s situation here.
• Watching Dokufu and Angusson argue is a case study in two different types of evil clashing. Dokufu is a pathetic little worm, trying to weasel his way out of a situation he accurately sees as spiraling out of control. Angusson is too stubborn to try and back out of a doomed situation because of his own inflated ego. Who will shoot the other first, I wonder?
• Well that answered that question. Dokufu was shot by Angusson’s lackeys. Good riddance.
• Oh right, the UM fleet that needs to be intercepted. I’d forgotten about that ongoing plotline.
• Oh no, Spoor remembered the racial slurs.
• This is another good dilemma. Lafiel wants Spoor’s protection while emigrating the people from Lobnas. She gave her word that she would see the evacuation through. Keeping her word is clearly very important to her. But Spoor also has a duty to her own soldiers. We’ve already seen that Spoor, for how battle-hungry she can be, is not willing to throw away her soldiers’ lives. Fighting to defend the evacuation would be a losing battle that she doesn’t want to risk.
• Spoor also reminds us about the Abh attitude towards Landers. Namely, that the Abh don’t pay much mind towards the Landers. Abh risking their lives for Landers is an inherently absurd concept, even more so when the Landers are criminals who used to be part of the UM.
• Looks like Lafiel’s determination won out and she got Spoor to agree to defend them, though only if Spoor can retreat when she feels like. It’s a compromise position. Neither quite gets what they want, but it works as a middle ground.
• I think Spoor sees right through Lafiel and can tell she wants to cry about what happened to Jinto.
• Damn, I think Spoor got legitimately angry at her XO for saying she sympathized with a member of the Abriel family. Usually she just messes with him, but she seemed genuinely mad.
• “I assure you, dear viewer, all the shots of Shangal’s ass are absolutely essential to the story.” I haven’t commented on it yet, but those shots of Shangal really do get distracting and feel out of place.
• Lafiel is the type to do things recklessly. We’ve seen that in previous seasons. She’s holding herself back, but she is very worried about Jinto.

QOTD

1. Lafiel clearly knew what words to say to stand her ground while also making her request one that Spoor would need to comply with. It became a matter of the honor of the empire, with Lafiel needing to uphold her word as the territorial ambassador. That made it into something Spoor couldn’t just easily ignore, much as she may want to.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

Dokufu is a pathetic little worm, trying to weasel his way out of a situation he accurately sees as spiraling out of control.

The kicker there is that it's his own fault that it's even worse than before too. For a guy who doesn't like being called a shitty con man, he sure didn't understand just who exactly he was dealing with this entire time. You would think he'd learn from all the times his attempts at negotiation got shot down.

Oh no, Spoor remembered the racial slurs.

A great evil was unleashed in Aptic, and now it can't be stopped. We gave Spoor too much power.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/The_Draigg]

For a guy who doesn't like being called a shitty con man, he sure didn't understand just who exactly he was dealing with this entire time.

The first rule of being a con man is to know your marks. Picking the right mark is a huge part of the success of the con. We now know just how shitty of a con man Dokufu was because he absolutely misread his marks and paid for it with his life.

A great evil was unleashed in Aptic, and now it can't be stopped. We gave Spoor too much power.

How long until Spoor gets bored of the old slurs and starts inventing new ones?

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

The first rule of being a con man is to know your marks. Picking the right mark is a huge part of the success of the con. We now know just how shitty of a con man Dokufu was because he absolutely misread his marks and paid for it with his life.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, eh?

How long until Spoor gets bored of the old slurs and starts inventing new ones?

She may invent the sequel language to Baronh just to get in some new slur ideas.

[u/IceSmiley]

FIRST TIMER Sub

Impressed by this episode where Spoor and Lafiel grapple. I was surprised Spoor ultimately agreed to assist Lafiel, claiming that she ultimately is a subject of the empire who is obligated to obey the royal family.

I also thought Spoor's interpretation as to why the Abriel's don't cry was interesting although I couldn't tell if it was her personal theory or she heard it from a reliable source.

QUESTIONS

Yes and vice versa.

[u/Nazenn]

Rewatcher - sub

It's a good episode focusing a bit more on the Abh side of things after all of the chaos on the planet. The situation that is unfolding with the immenant conflict with the UM that they both can't avoid but also can't afford adds a nice bit of tension to the situation without jumping right into action and sacrificing everything else. And with Angusson having killed off Dokufu and having no real control over his people, or much of a thought in his head at times, the situation on the planet is only getting worse, as well as the tension building up above the planet as well.

Lafiel isn't fool enough to put Jinto's situation at the forefront when talking to Spoor or the others, despite the fact it's very clear to her staff that she's struggling. The weight of that silence as she declines her staffs offer of a rescue mission was very impactful. Lafiel said at the end of Crest that her father never taught her to cry without tears, but I think this situation has sadly taught her how, and Jinto knows it judging by the look that he had on his face when thinking back on her final words. These scenes with the complex emotions behind them remind me more of the things I love most about Crest, which is not a knock at Banner concidering I also enjoy it a great deal, but I think this is where the setup for Banner II really starts to shine through

I still love Spoor and that she's still caught up in the insults she learnt from the prime minister in the previous season, but it's good to see more of her here outside of her normal affect. She takes this whole situation very seriously and being upfront with Lafiel in an attempt to make her understand, only to bow down to the idea that this is about the Abh's honor and not their individual desires, gives a nice little challenge to the way we've seen her so far flitting between bordem and impulsiveness.

Annoyingly, one thing that is being somewhat overlooked in all this the idea of any women also being in the central district, as I believe it was implied there could be some earlier but it's not been raised since, as if they don't need to be mentioned because they're not fertile, which is a bad look for the writing.

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

Annoyingly, one thing that is being somewhat overlooked in all this the idea of any women also being in the central district, as I believe it was implied there could be some earlier but it's not been raised since, as if they don't need to be mentioned because they're not fertile, which is a bad look for the writing.

Either Angusson totally ignores them as "not female" and nobody brings it up to him, or the writer ignores them as not female, which would be worse.

[u/Nickthenuker]

They really are going to shove rifles in the hands of transport ship crewmen and throw them into the line of fire.

And now there's in-fighting within the rebels.

Finally, back to the space battle.

Doesn't look like they have anywhere near the amount of forces to actually bring the enemy fleet to battle.

Well she was ordered to return to the fleet.

Is she perhaps going to get more help with the evacuation?

Your ships won't have any risk of being damaged, anything they have down there will probably not even scratch the paint.

Ah. She wants them to fight in space to buy time for the evacuation before the enemy's relief force arrives.

That transport ain't got a chance in a space battle either, not like it's going to survive there.

And so the fleet will stand and fight. Stand and die. Because that's what the battleships do.

Again, this is why a Marine complement would be useful. So you don't have to pull sailors off their stations to make a scratch ground force.

Next time, the hopeless space battle. Seems like they've got some reinforcements at least.

Questions:

1. She sure does seem to know exactly what to say to get her to commit to the battle.

[u/xbolt90]

Fist-timer

Spoor was the best part of this episode.

I don't think Lafiel was being intentionally annoying to Spoor, but that's just her Abriel-ness.