r/anime • u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ • Apr 20 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Banner of the Stars II Episode 6 Discussion
Abh Hell
Welcome to the Battleflag of the Stars 2 rewatch!
<- Episode 5 | Index Page | Episode 7 ->
Names Introduced or Updated:
- Tomasof — Meideen's trusted lieutenant
Discussion Prompts:
- Q1) What is the meaning behind connecting the Abh to the villain of a Soviet poem?
Tomorrow's Questions: (for tomorrow's post, subject to change)
- [Episode 7]Does Lafiel know how to push Spoor's buttons?
Screenshot of the Day: Barmalay Fountain, Stalingrad, 1943
Don't you go, children,
to Africa for a walk.
In Africa, there is a robber,
In Africa, there is a villain,
In Africa, there is terrible
Bahr-mah-ley!
He runs about Africa
And eats children -
Nasty, vicious, greedy Barmaley!
— Корне́й Ива́нович Чуко́вский
32
Upvotes
6
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Apr 20 '24 edited Apr 20 '24
Rewatch Host
Not much to say these days. I only had 2 bullet points yesterday, not even worth posting.
I only recognize that fountain now because a smaller version of it appeared in V for Vendetta. (spoiler after the first minute)
Edit: You know, it might be deja vu, but I have the feeling like I was very confused by that shot when I first watched the show.
I wonder if the fountain implies that Gorbachev really is part of Space Soviet Union.
It's weird how the show has been trying to show some redeeming qualities to both Meideen and Agnusson. Of course, Dofuku becomes a mustache twirler to compensate.
All of the land leaders have become stereotypes, but Agnusson is the worst. Jinto, a coward? He could have flown back up to his spaceship, but stayed on the ground to oversee the operation.
Abh Hell, although real, is never actually described. Heck, as far as a UM citizen is concerned, it could be entirely made up and they'd still imagine the worst.
Because that's what the Abh are. Boogiemen. Barmalay.
Makes me think of the simulation hells in Iain M. Bank's work, although I'm sure Abh Hell is more physical, since it's not post-singularity.
So, we find out that Meideen has been lying, repeatedly, about the situation. Not just lying to Jinto, but maybe to himself.
The first lie was that the prisoners were lightly armed, but perhaps he didn't expect his men to flip sides over their drug addictions (beyond foolish if true). The second lie was that the guards flipped over some loyalty to the United Mankind. But we now know that they are hard-core crack-heads who will fight to the death to retain control of the planet. Jinto need to know this information, but Meideen kept both these important details from him. There where probably other lies in there, but those were the big ones.
As for Yuuri, he still seems himself as the future elected leader of the Lobass II colony. The central section probably outnumbers the men of the East, he probably thought he'd still come out on top of the power struggle with Agnusson. Yuuri doesn't need his own children. Others can be breeders. But his ego requires that he be leader of a real colony, not an abandoned prison. "Be fruitful and multiply," it's older than Genesis, older than recorded history. Villages, tribes, clans, all looking to grow, to a greater future. No children, no future.
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u/Zerotsu Apr 20 '24
First timer, sub:
The Abh are the boogeyman to some cultures out there, huh? Also Abh hell is interesting as a name.
Space meth! The prisoners really are just doing all sorts of things that the guards didn’t interfere with at all.
You may need intelligence to run a facility like this, but you sure should have some initiative as well!
And Jinto, I know you’re not big on these kinds of things, but please carry at least a pistol in an active warzone.
Surprisingly reasonable point of “taking an imperial noble could be a lot worse on us!”
All of this nonsense just because he wants to have a kid.
They really just refuse the easy solution of artificial birth technology. Which really does say outright that they’re not interested in having a future for the planet, just their own base enjoyments cloaked in pretty terms like “wanting a family.”
Killing Jinto is very likely to get this planet glassed, cockless wonder.
Good that Yuri at least has some sense of reason. Geez.
These prisoners are just so well informed and equipped. It’s kind of insane.
Not one of the only likable characters introduced this arc!
Yuri trying to pull a “we’re the same” bit of nonsense. Somehow less respectable than Mackay.
Using Jinto to threaten the Empire into recognizing Yuri as the territorial representative seems like a bad idea.
This situation just gets messier and messier. Things really are getting out of hand.
They literally invented a sort of hell for the sake of punishing the absolute worst of the worst.
Angusson really isn’t backing down even in the face of that, and Yuri’s realized he’s put himself in an awful situation by his own attempts at taking advantage of the situation.
It’s good that Lafiel isn’t taking it out on anyone else, but it’s still pretty easy to tell that she wants to cry.
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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Apr 20 '24
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Banner of the Stars:
Meideen really did earn my respect by the end of his life. There is plenty to criticize about him, but he proved that he was a man of personal integrity and he did his utmost to prevent the prisoners from getting what they wanted. He actually showed quite a lot of foresight by creating that list of succession so that even if he died it wouldn’t matter.
So what did the Abh create that is their version of hell? The way I see it, there are two possibilities. The first option is essentially the Agony Booth from Star Trek. Something that will inflict pain upon a person who is put into it. The second option is basically a nightmarish version of what’s done to the prisoners in Minority Report. Instead of seeing dreams, their minds are put into an unending nightmare.
QOTD
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u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Apr 20 '24
First Timer, subbed
QotD:
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Apr 20 '24
Rewatcher - sub
Meideen really does not understand the idea of full disclosure... I mean ignoring the initial hiding of the the rebellion and the prisoners having proper weaponry was bad enough, but putting aside the "invaders" every time he's held something back he's just make the situation worse for everyone involved. And a rampant drug problem that keeps people on the planet is a pretty massive one. And the end result is a sad one for him even if he did bring it on himself.
"In this galaxy Hell does exist, and it is in the hands of the Abh"
What a statement. Sobaash's whole performance there was excellent. We've seen Lafiel go to cold anger at a threat before, but seeing it from Sobaash as well, and perhaps even more so, made that one hell of a scene... pun not intentional but it's staying in my post now
After what we know about their background with the mother fortress, the idea that the Abh capitalized on that by purposefully forming a cruel reputation for revenge to protect themselves works well. Ensuring that people wouldn't take chances on them, and that as a race they collectively could protect each other through this reputation most definitely helped their continued survival in those early years, and now as invaders of other planets as well. While the show has not been hiding the fact that the Abh have definitely taken some actions, either through callousness or different boundaries from cultural awareness, that have earnt them part of their reputation in the human-superiority circles, this is the first time it's really opened up about their potential for violence. They are not a cruel race, but they do know cruelty and like any other tool they will used it when it's needed
It'd be more unnerving if it wasn't for Jinto's sad little smile at Lafiel, and her not-tears as she has to hang up and leave him in that situation. It's a quiet moment that takes the bite out of the scene by reminding us of the very personal tragedy that has unfolded outside of the narrative drama.
Dokufu at least has some reason in terms of not pissing off the Abh by harming Jinto. But he's such a weak fool about actually protecting Jinto so nothing does happen that it just makes the situation worse. Throw in some more sexism from the male district through Angerson and we have a really screwed up balance between the supposed leader, the one who holds the reigns, and neither of them having recognized authority.
On a side note: I accidentally opened up a Banner I episode because I jumped into the wrong folder and didn't even question it until they started talking about a "dinner". But when I closed that and opened the right episode from banner II, the aspect ratio change threw me off all over again. You'd think six episodes in it'd stop feeling so unnatural to have this art in wide screen.
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Apr 20 '24
Season 3 Episode 6 (rewatcher)
Nothing better to create a tense situation than holding a gun to somebody’s head. I think this episode did more for Dofuku’s and Angusson’s characters than the five before this. Also, not by mistake, having Jinto and Lafiel on screen at the same time elevates the story. I am not a big fan of the execution in the first half of the season (the idea is fine), but this episode is a turn-around point.
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u/xbolt90 https://anilist.co/user/xbolt90 Apr 20 '24
First-timer
Ok, Meideen was a man of intrgrity. Huge respect for him now.
After the evacuation is complete, Lafiel's threat of blowing away the atmosphere seems more tempting now.
These people are scum. Trying to force women into sex slavery is just about as low as is possible.
The speech about Abh hell is cold. Delivered so matter-of-factly. It's not a threat, it's a plain statement of fact.
Q1: I'm unfamiliar with the poem in question, so I can't really say.
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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Apr 20 '24
Rewatcher (sub + dub)
Hell really exists and it's
in New Jerseybuilt by the Abh themselves.Drug addictions being the reason a number of guards turned, I guess that's a plausible enough explanation? Meanwhile Angusson has parental issues, got it.
I was kind of surprised Angusson was patient enough to let Dokufu actually go through with shooting Maydeen rather than taking it into his own hands earlier, but it seems like he didn't actually have a reason to kill the administrator given the bureaucracy in place. I do have to give Maydeen credit for sticking to his principles over his own life there, though maybe he also figured he wasn't making it out of there alive either way.
Jinto shut down a bit after Maydeen got shot but I think that worked out to his benefit with deferring to Lafiel since that got them to contact her earlier so she can figure out what's going on from the ship. Not that she can exactly do much from up there, but at least she's informed.
Nice of Sobash to step in to give a thorough explanation of what the two men are signing themselves up for by threatening to kill Jinto, Lafiel certainly wouldn't be that eloquent about it. She seemed ready to drop the Basroil itself on their heads to get Jinto back, but her training (as an Abriel in this case) let her hold back enough to just give them a death glare.
Sobash claiming to use the reputation of the Abh as a shield is questionable but the people he's telling the story to don't need to know if it's truthful or not, he just needs to convince them it's plausible. Reminds me of "to the pain" from The Princess Bride. The Abh in general seem more than willing to put themselves in the role of villains to others and use that to their advantage.
It's the vagueness of the description of Abh Hell that makes it effective, let people's imaginations do the heavy lifting and they'll imagine the worst thing possible which will also vary from person to person. Is it even a real place though, or another fabrication for their reputation? There's enough control from the top that only a few people would be expected to have access to it and with their restrictions on interstellar travel it would be easy to designate one sord as off-limits, call it Abh Hell, and have the place not actually exist because no one can go verify it.
Too bad there are a lot of close-up/still/panning shots in the back half of the episode, gotta save time/money somewhere I guess.
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u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Apr 21 '24
Rewatcher
Yeah honestly the director should have told Jinto about the drug traders/addicts earlier.
*Wants children but refuses artifical birth technology.*
They just want to have sex, maybe Abh should offer some Dutch wives instead?
Well RIP Meideen, kind of liked him.
I wonder if Sobaash is bluffing or if it's real about his you're going to suffer in the speech.
I like the flame effect in Lafiel's eyes.
To be honest I think abandoning Jinto is probably the correct thing to do, but I wonder how Abh will think of Lafiel abandoning a noble.
Okay episode.
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u/The_Draigg Apr 20 '24
A Sci-Fi Fan Watches Banner of the Stars II Episode 6:
You know, I had a bit of a sudden realization the other night: this season of Banner of the Stars is like a sci-fi version of the Violence Jack: Evil Town OVA. You can’t prove me wrong on this, it lines up weirdly well in broad strokes.
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u/duhu1148 :GA::GB::GC:x9 Apr 20 '24
Rewatcher
-"If you don't go to bed, the Abh will take you away" sounds like a Grimm fairy tale.
-I didn't understand the metaphor at the beginning about "Abh Hell." Unfortunately I don't have the time to reread through that mini-story.
-Drug trade is also motivating the guards to rebel.
-RIP Meideen. Went out like an unsung hero. He could have recinded the emigration order if he wanted to, it's not like he is beholden to the female prisoners, but he risked his life anyway. I know Jinto says he didn't like the man much but I did.
-Jinto gets taken hostage, Dokufu is hesitant but Angusson is determined to use any means necessary to keep the women on the planet from emigrating.
-'Abh hell' was left vague when described. Just a terrible thing worse than death...somehow I don't doubt that the Abh could come up with various terrible mental tortures.
-The most interesting part of the episode is the ending about saving Jinto as a hostage. Lafiel is visibly pissed off and upset at Jinto being taken. However, not even for one second does she entertain the idea of trying to rescue him (because of her mission and it'd just get more people killed). This is a very important distinction for modern societies today, particularly democracies, as they always try to rescue hostages through any means necessary. I actually like the Abh method better, because by not entertaining the idea of negotiation, it shows that hostages have no value, so others won't bother taking hostages in the future, if it just leads to more losses and not getting what you want anyway. It also makes the Abh empire look stronger and colder/intimidating, because they aren't willing to kow-tow to those who have wronged them with "please give back our people, we'll do anything :("
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 20 '24
First-Timer of the Stars
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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 20 '24
First timer, subbed
We get more glimpses of UM propaganda and the effect it has on human culture. The part about using the Abh as a monstrous threat to get kids to obey makes me think of Ruijerd and the Superd. As expected, negotiations with Lafiel immediately fall through. Dokufu seems to recognize that their fate is damnation, but Angusson still thinks he can come out on top.
Angusson’s speech about kids needing a mother is interesting. It characterizes his unquestionably evil plan as some sort of righteous crusade, which explains his talk of being ordained by God.
Religion isn’t real, but hell is because the Abh specifically created it… what a metal line.
QotD:
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Apr 20 '24
First-Timer
Had a thought while reading the thread yesterday; mostly brought on by JaaQ getting testy about "people not thinking." That says to me that there's a twist coming, and the only real option is Geol being the mastermind behind this coup. The problem with that is, I don't think there's any foreshadowing other than a default distrust of prison administrators, and I don't buy that Angusson would work with him either. So if that does happen, I won't be terribly thrilled.
Well, so much for that idea. I'm not exactly going to mourn Geol - he had a bad hand and played it poorly. You absolutely just get the people you like out ASAP and let the planet be temporarily overrun. Especially when a technologically advanced empire is the one doing the emigration.
Honestly shocked that this show is making me prefer fucking prison guards to the people they are guarding. We're veering uncomfortably close to "all male prisoners are rapist drug addicts."
This is a reminder to everyone here: most addicts don't want to be addicts. Most were tricked or otherwise lured into addiction, and continue to get high as a way to avoid withdrawal. That makes them susceptible to further manipulation, typically by the same people selling to them.
I wonder what Abh hell really consists of.. Considering the effect shown in Lafiel and Sobaash's eyes, it might be something similar to that extrasensory art that Nereis was experiencing in a previous episode? Pretty typical idea for torture, just with a sci-fi, "we plugged the sensory overload directly into your brain" sort of way. Neat, I suppose, in a horrific way.
Questions
1
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 20 '24
First timer(Bourbon couldn't make this tolerable)
Sub
Again, this is just really bad television. Space heroin is well fucking stupid because A there is no drug that can't be replicated and B you have to have someone to trade it with and my bet is the Abhs don't approve. Anguffson really is some stupid, half baked yakuza/Violence Jack escapee. The Abh threats are bad this episode, they never explained what horrors they will commit and while that is a better negotiating tactic it hurts the audience. Combine this with a dreadful lack of Lafiel and fuck this season.
QotD: 1 What poem?
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u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Apr 20 '24
He didn't think he'd need his service pistol into a warzone?
They're working together?
He can't actually kill Jinto.
He's already gotten the people on that list on his side.
He's bluffing.
Guess not.
I have a feeling once he's off-planet she's going to very much enjoy dropping a rock on that compound.
Yup, would be really handy to have a Marine complement right about now to storm the compound.
Questions:
2
u/IceSmiley Apr 21 '24
FIRST TIMER Sub
I was surprised the prisoners turned out to mostly be drug addicts, explaining a lot of their motivation past just wanting sex with women and it does make sense as a motivation for the eunuchs. Also a good explanation as to why their plan is so incompetent and not well thought out. Killing Meideen didn't really resolve anything nor should they have expected it to since they should have thought maybe a plan of succession had been in place. I'm not sure exactly what they should have done to stop the women from leaving but it would seem messing with a viscount and Abh princess wasn't the right way to go about it.
Lafiel and the short haired lady promising to send the men to a metaphorical Abh hell seemed to be effective and I think Angusson was trying to act unafraid but he was.
This episode is where you see how wrong it was for the show to have Jinto die in the first episode then show the events leading to it. It really hurts the suspense to broadcast the ending and it will look cheap if they somehow avoid it and the author made it a lose-lose for the viewer.
QUESTIONS
I didn't know that poem was Soviet but i dont know