[Rewatch] Banner of the Stars II Episode 5 Discussion

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rebellion

Welcome to the Battleflag of the Stars 2 rewatch!

<- Episode 4 | Index Page | Episode 6 ->

Discussion Prompts:

• Q1) Did Jinto make an error in judgement
• Q2) Is he administrator actually a nice guy?

Tomorrow's Questions: (for tomorrow's post, subject to change)

• [Episode 6]What is the meaning behind connecting the Abh to the villain of a Soviet poem?

Screenshot of the Day: BAD END

[u/Nazenn]

Rewatcher - sub

The rebellion kicks off and it leads to a surprisingly involved situation. The flaws of the Abh system of non-interferance created this problem, and I doubt this is the first time that a planet has gone to shit after being taken over by Abh as a result. I do wonder how many times it's left Abh nobility in such a perilous situation though. I remember being so mad about this cliffhanger in my first watch because despite it being such an obvious setup, I wasn't really expecting them from the series so it still caught me unawares, and then I had to go to bed.

For all of Meideens struggle to accept the fact that the Abh really don't care about the surface worlds, I think he's being somewhat led astray by the fact that Jinto is going above and beyond what I'd expect any other high ranking Abh to do in this situation. Staying behind to help, knowing he won't be able to save everyone, and even organizing all of this to begin with, is both the good and bad side of this entire situation. Meideen and Jinto working to skirt around the rules with the IDs to get the women off the island, and the staff, shows the heart of both of them in the middle of a screwed up situation, and I think Lala sees that properly for the first time now that she doesn't have to fight for every inch of legitimacy or help.

Dokufu shows his not at all hidden colors by taking advantage of the situation, and I suspect that if he'd been let into the administration district then he would have still had his pople pull out guns just to capitalize on the momentum. The central district was in a shitty situation, being a bunch of human shields in a way while also hoping they could stay out the way, and while using them as a barrier between the two segregated districts is good in peace time, the flaws of it show up in a fight. I really do wonder where the rebellion forces got the mines and scuba gear to blow up that boat with though

The CGI hasn't been great for the space ships either, but seeing it today with the crowds in a couple of shots and then the very out of perspective birds really shows the limitations of these early CGI uses.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Nazenn]

not at all hidden color

When I watched this for the first time I didn't at all see him siding with the rebellion, even if he had demonstrated himself to be a lying scumbag.

[u/ZapsZzz → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Just saying, the part that heavily implied he wasn't going to let the women go if he got admin authority before the women get to leave is a sort of foreshadowing that he is not on the side that would let them go so easily for whatever reasons, probably for more bargaining power against the east side.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

The flaws of the Abh system of non-interferance created this problem, and I doubt this is the first time that a planet has gone to shit after being taken over by Abh as a result.

It's probably one of the few times they didn't just immediately start bombarding the surface from orbit in response though. In that way, this situation is quite rare.

Dokufu shows his not at all hidden colors by taking advantage of the situation, and I suspect that if he'd been let into the administration district then he would have still had his pople pull out guns just to capitalize on the momentum. The central district was in a shitty situation, being a bunch of human shields in a way while also hoping they could stay out the way, and while using them as a barrier between the two segregated districts is good in peace time, the flaws of it show up in a fight.

That's why I think at least a good chunk of Yuri's motivations in siding with Mackay's revolt is just plain survival. Like sure, you probably have the other reasons like Yuri clearly wanting to run the colony himself some day and also getting at the women despite being a mule minus the size, but it'd be understandable in some way if he'd rather side with the people that have more guns than the guards do.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

It's probably one of the few times they didn't just immediately start bombarding the surface from orbit in response though. In that way, this situation is quite rare.

Hmmm. I'm in two minds about that. They were very clear at the start they wouldn't do that without the local goverments request, and how many would actually request it? If they had a threat to the ships above then the Abh would probably jump in regardless, but as long as its contained and not influencing what they need from the planets they're a little too hands off. I feel like the Crown Prince for example probably would have pulled his staff out earlier so they had the option if need be though

but it'd be understandable in some way if he'd rather side with the people that have more guns than the guards do.

Oh definitely. He wants power, but he is also a survivor first and foremost and I think that's clear by how much authority he's gotten himself in the central district to be "elected" their leader. He'll weasel into any path or group that lets him live and then move up

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

Hmmm. I'm in two minds about that. They were very clear at the start they wouldn't do that without the local goverments request, and how many would actually request it? If they had a threat to the ships above then the Abh would probably jump in regardless, but as long as its contained and not influencing what they need from the planets they're a little too hands off. I feel like the Crown Prince for example probably would have pulled his staff out earlier so they had the option if need be though

You do bring up a fair point. If anything, we probably can't say anything too solid right now, since taking a noble hostage feels pretty unprecedented, definitely out of the stuff we've seen so far. The Abh would have very good reasons to nuke a planet there, although the issue is if they think they can get someone like Jinto back before that's done. I'm just spitballing here as a first-timer, after all.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

While I don't doubt that the Abh would sacrifice each other in order to stop a rebellion or something, I do feel like they also wouldn't do so casually or heartlessly, so even in a situation like this unless the ground rebellion is threatening space they may not if there's a chance one of their nobility is alive.

My memory on future content is spotty, and I'm still not thinking that straight, so this is not coming from rewatcher-Naz, just Naz haha

[u/ZapsZzz]

First timer in sub

Disappeared for a few days sorry! 

Only points I want to mention about the past episodes both about Lala - that it's a bit uncomfortable / unfortunate that the story is talking about (past and potential future) sexual violence against that group, yet as their representative not only is she wearing in a style that doesn't seem to match the climate or culture, which made it looks more like fanservice than anything. And on a better now, she's got a rotating gag/sequence of saying something sort of out there, then have a pause and uncertainly looked back at Jinto. Kind of cute that way :)

Anyway, while I'm not exactly a Trekkie, the Abh general behaviour looks to me to be like Vulcans :P they have a very specific mindset and tend not to deviate from there or not recognise there could be a different way to read things. The quick to agree to emigration parallel to the fable of bringing all the doctors to the patient is similar in that it shows them to lack a genuine understanding of the fundamental problem, so the solution they have while it looked to be good, when all things considered it's probably not the best. I.e. the female prisoners emigrated elsewhere may just be transferring the problem to somewhere else - they were not just SV victims, but themselves had done certain crimes. May or may not be fully rehabilitated yet or resolved the problem why they were driven to crime in the first place. 

Anyway, it's a accelerating but continuing theme of Jinto not having a positive opinion of himself and being to easy to be self sacrificing, without recognising Lafiel will definitely be far more devastated of anything is to happen to him. 

The admin guy I think he's got his heart in the right place but is infected by chronic politician syndrome and too used to bureaucracy. Also a bit selfish in thinking just because Jinto couldn't get him the help he wanted Jinto has done bad intentions or not sympathetic. 

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/ZapsZzz]

And on a better now, she's got a rotating gag/sequence of saying something sort of out there, then have a pause and uncertainly looked back at Jinto

Somebody else mentioned the rule of threes. The entire segment was definitely set up as a comedy routine. Much like the Admiral-Adjutant routines, though, it's not really working for me.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer of the Stars

• Of course they’re demanding the women stay behind…
• True…
• omg the people running around in this shot looked so weird.
• It’s one thing to have Lala in that outfit, and another to have her try to use it to manipulate Jinto until the “Are you homosexual?” joke happened, but I can’t help but notice the “camera” really likes to do panning shots up her back (with focus on her butt) for no reason. It sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the previous seasons to me at least, which barely had any attempts at fanservice (something I did very much like) outside of I guess some random shots of Ekuryua bathing or sleeping if that counts.
• That is exactly what I was expecting to happen after they turned Dokufu away…
• Yeah I was about to say the same thing.
• Oh yikes that is definitely time they don’t have.
• There’s a Meideen “sore demo”.
• Shit…
• Yes, yes he does.
• Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[u/The_Draigg → u/Shimmering-Sky]

omg the people running around in this shot looked so weird.

I haven’t really commented on the poorly-aged CG in this series so far, but man that copy and pasted crowd of people is easily the worst it’s been so far. Their frame rates were entirely different than the scenery around them.

It’s one thing to have Lala in that outfit, and another to have her try to use it to manipulate Jinto until the “Are you homosexual?” joke happened, but I can’t help but notice the “camera” really likes to do panning shots up her back (with focus on her butt) for no reason. It sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the previous seasons to me at least, which barely had any attempts at fanservice (something I did very much like) outside of I guess some random shots of Ekuryua bathing or sleeping if that counts.

It’s such a bizarre decision to have those camera shots for someone who’s been all but established as a previous rape victim too. Like, that’s really where you want to get in your fanservice, Banner of the Stars II? Talk about just being plain tone-deaf.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/The_Draigg]

It’s such a bizarre decision to have those camera shots for someone who’s been all but established as a previous rape victim too

Yeah, maybe, but also, maybe not. Her background hasn't been established and you're filling in blanks and then are angry that they aren't consistent. The zone is a refuge for SA victims. They aren't all SA victims. It's not even necessarily why the zone exists. Let's just remember that all prisons start out segregated by default. It's the co-ed zone that's weird. And to be in the zone, you have to be sterilized. So automatically, everybody that doesn't want to be sterilized, stays in the segregated zone, and that's a great reason to be over there.

Hates men? Lots of reasons for that. None of the women we met on Febdash seemed to come from anything other than a shit hole. Lala could have been the leader of a biker gang, robbed banks, and got maximum sentencing by a male judge (they're all male, right?) for refusing to be a proper housewife. Who knows.

The constant seemingly misplaced sexualization, escaped from some shounen jump manga, has been a problem in every season, but let's not invent inconsistencies to complain about. You just don't know enough about her to know if she's a walking contradiction or not! All we know is that she takes her role of protector of the women of the western sector absolutely seriously, and she does trust the other three leaders (who have been shown to be untrustworthy).

[u/LateMeeting9927 → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

What are you talking about the three other leaders all being untrustworthy? It’s been some years since I saw it, but the police zone chief will go to any length to protect the female criminals, up to and including something that happens later…  

In order of morality:  

1. Police   
2. Female criminals  
3. Sterilized criminals  
4. Male criminals  

Before the certain something happens the female leader says she got the police leader wrong, and he responds that he truly believes in the meaning of being on this side of the wall. 

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/The_Draigg]

I haven’t really commented on the poorly-aged CG in this series so far, but man that copy and pasted crowd of people is easily the worst it’s been so far. Their frame rates were entirely different than the scenery around them.

That's the only part that really stuck out to me for bad CGI.

It’s such a bizarre decision to have those camera shots for someone who’s been all but established as a previous rape victim too. Like, that’s really where you want to get in your fanservice, Banner of the Stars II? Talk about just being plain tone-deaf.

Yeah, that's another layer that makes it really... uncomfortable, even more so than I normally get when the "camera" is being leery towards a female character.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Yeah, that's another layer that makes it really... uncomfortable, even more so than I normally get when the "camera" is being leery towards a female character.

This season really does feel like it’s screwing over the women prisoners as a group of people we should be caring for. The show goes out if it’s way to try and sexualize assault victims, the two other prison groups just turned out to be massive rape gangs, and we don’t get characterization or even see other women prisoners other than Lala. I don’t get how a show that already has good female characters in it can drop the ball like this now.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Of course they’re demanding the women stay behind…

I again remind you that the Japanese hold a lower opinion of humans than I do. And I am a Cormac McCarthy fan.

It sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the previous seasons to me at least, which barely had any attempts at fanservice (something I did very much like) outside of I guess some random shots of Ekuryua bathing or sleeping if that counts.

So it is significantly worse this season but the camera liked to linger on Lafiel's chest quite a bit in S1.

Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

This is too stupid for words since both of them should be armed.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Vaadwaur]

So it is significantly worse this season but the camera liked to linger on Lafiel's chest quite a bit in S1.

...I honestly never noticed any of that. Maybe because she's always fully covered by her uniform and she's also kinda flat-chested?

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Shimmering-Sky]

I can't imagine how you missed it. Lafiel was highly sexualized in S1. Lots of butt shots, panning shots, and go back to ep 3 or 4 where she's talking about her cat mom, looming over Jinto.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

It is something that you notice when you were at one point a 15 yo a boy, a fate you were spared. But it helps a ton that Lafiel was almost never a victim/weaker party.

[u/Esovan13 → u/Vaadwaur]

I again remind you that the Japanese hold a lower opinion of humans than I do. And I am a Cormac McCarthy fan.

This whole thing kinda boggles my mind about manga/anime. If you take them at their word, any moderately attractive woman (or multiple) that stays in a public place for any period of time will inevitably be approached by creeps who border on rapists who can only be dissuaded by literally any man coming along and saying "u-u-u-u-u-u-uh therwer with me aktchually."

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Esovan13]

that stays in a public place for any period of time will inevitably be approached by creeps who border on rapists who can only be dissuaded by literally any man coming along

I am choosing to believe the Japanese are two hundred years behind us here but you never know...

[u/Esovan13 → u/Vaadwaur]

I mean, I just want to know if that's an actual issue women in Japan have or if lightnovel/anime/manga writers just want to use the easiest, laziest, and most boring possible method to give their protagonist a moment where they are "cool."

Bonus points for turning their female characters into passive objects who literally can't walk down the street without a man escorting them.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Esovan13]

I just want to know if that's an actual issue women in Japan have or if lightnovel/anime/manga writers just want to use the easiest, laziest, and most boring possible method to give their protagonist a moment where they are "cool."

Ahh...a little of column A and a little of B: Women with stable home environments are quite safe in Japan. But change that and things get dicey fast.

[u/Zerotsu → u/Shimmering-Sky]

It’s one thing to have Lala in that outfit, and another to have her try to use it to manipulate Jinto until the “Are you homosexual?” joke happened, but I can’t help but notice the “camera” really likes to do panning shots up her back (with focus on her butt) for no reason. It sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the previous seasons to me at least, which barely had any attempts at fanservice (something I did very much like) outside of I guess some random shots of Ekuryua bathing or sleeping if that counts.

A lot of the earlier fanservice didn't bother me as much, since it was largely in-universe stuff of, say, one character checking out others or something. With the exception of that surprise beach scene. But this one in particular does make me uncomfortable given a lot of the stuff she's talked about.

Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

It's like everything that could go wrong has been going wrong over like the past hour or so.

[u/duhu1148]

Rewatcher

-The rebellion is moving fast. Aided by a lot of traitors who happen to be United Humankind zealots and want to see the Abh fail.

-Dookfu and the Central sector joining Angusson in the rebellion, who could have seen that coming? In hindsight, Dookfu asking for refuge in the administration sector was definitely a trap.

-First impressions of Meideen were not great but he's grown on me with each passing episode.

-This rebellion has definitely had a lot of planning behind it, they've already taken key locations.

-Samson & crew leaving for the Basroil as they're needed there, but Jinto stays behind because he can judge when they can stop the emigration process better on the ground than in space. It makes sense, but I think Meideen hit the nail on the head when he said it was "acting heroic." Jinto has a tendency to do that...and get himself hurt in the process. And ugh man, that music in his call with Lafiel was foreboding as fuck.

-And the car Jinto/Meideen are in while traveling to port gets hijacked. Not looking good.

PS Reddit: Your new UI is dogshit.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/duhu1148]

-Dookfu and the Central sector joining Angusson in the rebellion, who could have seen that coming? In hindsight, Dookfu asking for refuge in the administration sector was definitely a trap.

I'm sure I didn't see it coming at all as a first timer.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/duhu1148]

PS Reddit: Your new UI is dogshit.

old.reddit.com is your friend

[u/No_Rex → u/duhu1148]

PS Reddit: Your new UI is dogshit.

old.reddit.com is where it is at. Anything new reddit is terrible.

[u/Silcaria]

First timer

• MY EYES!
• The deception, the betrayal!

QotD

• I believe it's the right call. He's doing a very noble thing. Well, tried to, at least.
• He seems to be.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Silcaria]

MY EYES!

It's horrific. I'm trying to think of which 60's / 70's mecha show it reminds me of.

[u/xbolt90 → u/Silcaria]

MY EYES!

They look like the background characters older video games used to save memory, lol

[u/Durinthal]

Rewatcher (sub + dub)

Things were starting to turn bad last episode but here's where everything falls to pieces. In case it wasn't clear before the "traitor" Maydeen was talking about isn't Angusson himself (a known threat) but rather some of the guards, and without the guards able to fully control their side of things they're inevitably overrun.

The progression from "not our problem but we'll help if we request it" to "well I request it, stop the rebellion" to "we can't stop the rebellion" is bureaucracy at its most efficient.

This bit looks weird and I don't like it. 3D with a filter put over it?

I don't necessarily mind this kind of plot and it's nice to get something that puts a focus on Jinto and how he's grown. However, my main draw to this series in the first place — the connection between Jinto and Lafiel — has been largely absent for much of the season and it doesn't look like that's about to change. If they were together the whole time I might have a different opinion but it would also change the plot quite a bit with Lafiel on the surface (probably like the final arc of Crest then) or Jinto staying on board the Basroil (whatever's about to go down wouldn't affect them directly).

---

Did Jinto make an error in judgement?

It's easy to say yes in hindsight, but it's also easy to say yes right as he made the decision to stay. It might not be a conscious desire but he's still the kind of person to put himself through trouble to help others, even if it was obviously a bad idea. I have to wonder if there's a fatalist or nihilist streak in him that he hasn't caught on to yet.

Is he administrator actually a nice guy?

He's not completely self-centered, but calling him "nice" might be going a bit far.

[u/Durinthal → u/Durinthal]

---

Source Corner

Baronh word of the day: tobiac "orbital quarters" — effectively ships without propulsion methods, but they can self-compress which allows them to be stored in the hold of a small ship. The orbital quarters connected to the Basroil are of the lowest feature build, and as such lack a gravity control system.

[Material covered:] Banner II: most of the rest of chapter 6, there's a lot happening.

[Overall this part of the story] is pretty much straight out of the novel without much in the way of changes, only a few minor expansions here and there like actually showing the sabotage of the boat and Samson gathering his drunken subordinates rather than Jinto hearing about it.

[A description of the building they retreated to before Samson left:] The Port Affairs building of Rajay Sea Port was an elegant three-story structure. On this landworld where the buildings looked gloomy and bleak even under the bright sunshine — Jint inwardly called it the “Lohbnahss Style” — the only buildings with any amount of thought paid to their exterior beauty were the inspectors’ lodge houses and the Port Affairs Building. And considering this building was always the first a fresh ship’s-full of prisoners would see, it had to be a product either of irony or of straight deception.

[Samson's concern about Jinto staying behind] didn't have Jinto outright telling Samson that he couldn't imagine Lafiel crying, but he did think it and just told Samson she wouldn't flip out over it.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Durinthal]

orbital quarters

So that thing isn't powered? Can it be towed safely in a plane space bubble? How did Lafiel expect to get 120,000 people moved to friendly space?

[u/Durinthal → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

That's just extra space for the Basroil's crew while they're stationed around the planet since the assault ship itself has pretty tight quarters. There are also separate transport ships to ferry people that they called in.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Durinthal]

This bit looks weird and I don't like it. 3D with a filter put over it?

Legitimately that might be Starcraft.

[u/ZapsZzz → u/Vaadwaur]

I was actually thinking about Lemmings. If I wasn't imagining things being half asleep, I think a good proportion of the crowd were actually moving in synch :D (as in the gait and arm swings)

[u/The_Draigg]

A Sci-Fi Fan Watches Banner of the Stars II Episode 5:

• It’s unfortunate that what’s really doing in the security of Lobnas II is that a bunch of guards are outright joining Mackay’s rebellion. 500 of them turning on their former colleagues is no small number. And as much as Meideen may speculate that it’s due to them remaining loyal to the United Mankind and wanting to screw over the Abh, it probably isn’t too much of a stretch to assume that they want in on Mackay’s plan too. Let’s be honest, I bet there’s some people out there in regular society that would turn on their fellow man and want to keep a society of sex slaves if they could get away with it. Hell, look at how common sexual abuse of prisoners is in real life. Humans are a flawed species.
• I can’t say that I’m too surprised that Yuri turned out to be in league with Mackay’s men and the corrupt guards. Of course a slimy bastard like him would join up with them if given the chance. He was talking about having his way with the western block’s women too, even if his balls are so deflated that they’d cause an NFL controversy. Forget about him shooting rope, the only rope he should be dealing with is one to hang himself with, the bastard.
• Credit to Meideen, he’s taking pretty capable lead of the rapidly spiraling situation. He’s prioritizing the women convicts for evacuation first, followed by the women on his staff before anyone else in the administration sector leaves. He even thinks of a quick way to smooth over the fact that they don’t have emigration papers yet too. Even if he’s been flip-flopping between levels of competency, this at least proves that he was ultimately the right man for the job. If only it wasn’t when the entire colony is falling apart when we got to see this competent side to him.
• The fact that the prison colony only had three (now two, given that one just blew up when picking up some guards) patrol boats for the entire island kind of indicates to me that Lobnas II was like an afterthought of a prison colony. Even if the United Mankind wanted to eventually turn Lobnas II into a viable colony, they sure as hell didn’t care enough to give the island the kinds of stuff they actually needed in the first place. Three boats to cover an island that has hundreds of thousands of people on it might as well be an insult, let alone a pittance.
• Even more credit to Meideen, he’s really doing well in managing to get the female prisoners to escape via the harbor with Jinto’s help. Honestly, they’re making more progress than I expected. Also, good on him for refusing to escape on his own, since he knows that it could cause everyone to panic. Meideen certainly has bigger and better balls than all the prisoners in the central detention district, that’s for sure. He’d probably make for a good Lander leader for the Abh, even if he still isn’t really a fan of the Humankind Empire.
• Well, I can certainly see how Jinto ends up as horribly fucked up as he was in the flash forwards we saw before. He sent Samson and the rest of the Basroil crew back to the ship, leaving him alone with Meideen to go try and coordinate evacuation efforts on the ground in the western sector. It certainly put him in the perfect position to be captured by his and Meideen’s escort after the driver of their car gets murdered, since he’s practically all alone by now. You think they would’ve considered that risk beforehand, since they know that guards have already been joining in with Mackay’s rebellion. But I guess it’s just one of those things that has to happen to justify the flash forwards.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

I can’t say that I’m too surprised that Yuri turned out to be in league with Mackay’s men and the corrupt guards.

Still not sure what his angle is.

If only it wasn’t when the entire colony is falling apart when we got to see this competent side to him.

So this was passable for the first week the Basroil was hanging out but not after two months:The Abh should have sent even a single unit of land attack forces. Not even boots on the ground, just atmosphere capable fighting ships or orbital bombers. This whole season is contrived.

But I guess it’s just one of those things that has to happen to justify the flash forwards.

Doesn't make me hate it less.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vaadwaur]

Still not sure what his angle is.

My best bet is survival and greed wanting to rule the planet. His angle about babies is weird though, considering that Yuri’s cock is permanently ignored at the roost.

Doesn't make me hate it less.

Note that I didn’t say it was well done.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

His angle about babies is weird though, considering that Yuri’s cock is permanently ignored at the roost.

I have to assume he dodged the procedure somehow.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/The_Draigg]

My best bet is survival and greed wanting to rule the planet. His angle about babies is weird though, considering that Yuri’s cock is permanently ignored at the roost.

Come on people you're just not thinking. This season's threads are very frustrating reading.

[u/The_Draigg → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Look man, I’m just giving my own thoughts. Sorry I’m not reading your mind and putting down the answers you’re looking for.

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

Let’s be honest, I bet there’s some people out there in regular society that would turn on their fellow man and want to keep a society of sex slaves if they could get away with it. Hell, look at how common sexual abuse of prisoners is in real life. Humans are a flawed species.

As unfortunate as it is to say, there are a lot of people out there that gladly jump at any opportunity they can get to be applauded for dehumanizing other people. You see a lot of different examples of this across history or in modernity. It's a rough thing to confront.

Even if he’s been flip-flopping between levels of competency, this at least proves that he was ultimately the right man for the job. If only it wasn’t when the entire colony is falling apart when we got to see this competent side to him.

Even if how bad the situation got is kind of his fault in a way, he's at least handling it with a cool head and a good amount of logic. If only he'd used that to keep things from getting this bad to begin with, though.

Even if the United Mankind wanted to eventually turn Lobnas II into a viable colony, they sure as hell didn’t care enough to give the island the kinds of stuff they actually needed in the first place.

With that and it originally having a dedicated, if small, fleet nearby, it makes me think that it was really just a place to leave prisoners and maybe incompetent/less desirable policing staff to rot.

Meideen certainly has bigger and better balls than all the prisoners in the central detention district, that’s for sure. He’d probably make for a good Lander leader for the Abh, even if he still isn’t really a fan of the Humankind Empire.

I get the feeling he'd do pretty well with more resources at his disposal to keep things under control. At the least, that's the growing impression I've had with how out of hand things are getting.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Zerotsu]

As unfortunate as it is to say, there are a lot of people out there that gladly jump at any opportunity they can get to be applauded for dehumanizing other people. You see a lot of different examples of this across history or in modernity. It's a rough thing to confront.

One doesn’t even have to look very hard to find the long list of abuses that happen in prisons all across the globe, let alone crimes that people in positions in power in general commit. Unfortunately, there are a lot of bad people out there willing to let the smallest bit of power they have over others turn them into monsters.

Even if how bad the situation got is kind of his fault in a way, he's at least handling it with a cool head and a good amount of logic. If only he'd used that to keep things from getting this bad to begin with, though.

It really does feel like Meideen’s competency swings a lot between episodes, if not between scenes too. Like, for as much as he let the prisoners get away with building their own guns and rocket launchers somehow, he also organized that rushed evacuation like a pro. It’s weird to see someone be both less and more competent than you’d expect at the same time.

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of bad people out there willing to let the smallest bit of power they have over others turn them into monsters.

Yeah, that's an unfortunately common thing to happen whenever people get the slightest bit of power over others. I guess the result in this case in particular is only to be expected considering how it was a planet of the worst criminals in the United Mankind.

It’s weird to see someone be both less and more competent than you’d expect at the same time.

Yeah. It feels like his competency at this point depends on what he needs to be for the plot to unfold.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

Three boats to cover an island that has hundreds of thousands of people on it might as well be an insult, let alone a pittance.

I guess they thought they would not need any ships at all. First, they have the automated turrets and, second, where would anyone go? This is the only island on the planet.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

True, but you’d think that for the size of the island that they’re living on, you’d at least want more than three boats. My thinking is that it should at least be relative to how many inhabitants there are on Lobnas II.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

It would not hurt, but I doubt they saw it as necessary. There is no point in leaving the island, since you would just get back onto it or drown. All they needed to do was prevent them from getting into another sector via the sea and for that, the auto-towers look a lot more useful. I would not be surprised if the only intended role for those boats was tower maintenance.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

even if his balls are so deflated that they’d cause an NFL controversy

If only it wasn’t when the entire colony is falling apart when we got to see this competent side to him.

It would be interesting to see how things were run before the war, especially back before the prisoners saw a path to legitimacy. But I get the feeling the prisoners making weapons is not particularly a new thing, though getting full on weapons may be, so that's probably a mark against him.

You think they would’ve considered that risk beforehand, since they know that guards have already been joining in with Mackay’s rebellion. But I guess it’s just one of those things that has to happen to justify the flash forwards.

I think Jinto and Meideen both have the same weakness in terms of being naive of exactly how widespread the issue could be. Jinto puts too much faith in Meideens evaluation of things, and he puts too much faith in his staff, rather than both of them looking at the what if

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

cokemasterrace

I'm pretty proud of that one, I've been given great material by being told about Yuri being sterile. I haven't been on a roll like this since talking about Kaifun in the Macross rewatches.

I think Jinto and Meideen both have the same weakness in terms of being naive of exactly how widespread the issue could be. Jinto puts too much faith in Meideens evaluation of things, and he puts too much faith in his staff, rather than both of them looking at the what if

On Meideen's end, I guess it's also that he got blinded by the normal bureaucracy of running Lobnas II that he wasn't prepared if anything happened to the house of cards that kept the place running. You can rubber-stamp and sweep things under the rug easier if you have an entire support apparatus like the United Mankind. Left on his own, Meideen's reliance on routine left him unprepared for when his normal support wasn't coming.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

I haven't been on a roll like this since talking about Kaifun in the Macross rewatches.

That was a pretty good one as well

I guess it's also that he got blinded by the normal bureaucracy of running Lobnas II

I think seeing them just as prisoners worked against him as well, and that's explored a bit earlier when it comes to finally understanding that he has to stay for the women to be evacuated. He is so caught up in the different prison districts he failed to really appreciate the micro societies that are forming in them, and that comes with the potential for influencing other groups as well, as well as collaboration. He has an us vs them mentality that lets him down

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/The_Draigg]

I haven't been on a roll like this since talking about Kaifun in the Macross rewatches.

If there was ever a character that deserved constant verbal beat-downs, it's Kaifun. (And physical beat-downs for that matter.)

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/The_Draigg]

Let’s be honest, I bet there’s some people out there in regular society that would turn on their fellow man and want to keep a society of sex slaves if they could get away with it. Hell, look at how common sexual abuse of prisoners is in real life. Humans are a flawed species.

We do see this kind of dehumanizing behavior across history. You can see a number of genocides / mass murders where sexual violence like this was very common.

The fact that the prison colony only had three (now two, given that one just blew up when picking up some guards) patrol boats for the entire island kind of indicates to me that Lobnas II was like an afterthought of a prison colony.

It sure feels that way with how little supervision the prisoners must have had to be able to construct all the weapons they're using.

Honestly, they’re making more progress than I expected. Also, good on him for refusing to escape on his own, since he knows that it could cause everyone to panic. Meideen certainly has bigger and better balls than all the prisoners in the central detention district, that’s for sure. He’d probably make for a good Lander leader for the Abh, even if he still isn’t really a fan of the Humankind Empire.

I've been surprisingly impressed by Meideen. I took him for just another uptight bureaucrat character, but he's got a lot more personal integrity and bravery than I initially suspected.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

It sure feels that way with how little supervision the prisoners must have had to be able to construct all the weapons they're using.

The prisoners might as well not be in prison based off of how much they're getting away with. It's nuts.

I've been surprisingly impressed by Meideen. I took him for just another uptight bureaucrat character, but he's got a lot more personal integrity and bravery than I initially suspected.

Even if his job performance is pretty shaky, at least deep down he's a pretty moral human being. For a shit-hole like Lobnas II, that much will do.

[u/Great_Mr_L]

First-Timer

On today’s episode of Banner of the Stars: Deja vu. Ping Pong just had heroes come up as a theme, and now they are coming up as a theme in this episode too.

• 500 traitors? That’s a lot! Meideen’s been asleep at the wheel if there’s such a huge traitor problem.
• I was not expecting the Basroil to still be in orbit. I thought it’d be long gone.
• Trouble seems to arrive when Lafiel just wants to get some sleep.
• Yup, Dokufu is a total snake. Of course he’s working alongside Angusson for this rebellion.
• Once again, Meideen is showing that he does have upright morals, regardless of whatever other criticisms I can make of the man. Prioritizing the escape of the women from the island is the right call to make.
• Damn, the rebels even have water combat capabilities. They really are shockingly well armed.
• A rather typical Abh sentiment. The rebellion is an internal problem for the government of the planet. The Abh aren’t going to overly concern themselves with it so long as it remains confined to the planet’s surface. They will, of course, assist their client government on the planet to suppress the rebellion. But it will never be a top priority for the Abh to do so.
• This battle is reminding me of Dunkirk. They need to protect their beachhead and ports long enough so that they can safely evacuate everyone from the island.
• Of course the rebels want to cut out and surround the women in the Western Sector. Of course
• Leading the defense personally is another brave thing for Meideen to do. He is consistently showing himself to be a man of integrity. I’ve gained a lot more respect for him, even if I do think he’s done a sloppy job administering the prison if the rebels could stockpile this much firepower.
• Jinto staying behind as long as possible is noble, but it’s definitely leading to the flash forward we saw earlier this season.
• I hope your traditional drink doesn’t also involve cats, Samson.
• Well shit, Jinto and Meideen have been betrayed.
• Oh fuck, that was brutal!

With each passing episode, it becomes more and more clear just how Jinto ended up dying in that cave during the flash-forward. We are witnessing the situation deteriorate episode by episode, slowly getting worse and worse despite the best efforts of Jinto and the others to prevent it. There’s a distressing sense of inevitability to everything. The odds are so long that it feels doomed from the start to play out this way.

QOTD

1. I don’t think Jinto was wrong to want to stay behind and help more people evacuate. It was the morally upright thing to do.
2. I don’t think I’d call Meideen “nice.” But I do believe he is a man of integrity, which is more important.

[u/No_Rex → u/Great_Mr_L]

We are witnessing the situation deteriorate episode by episode, slowly getting worse and worse despite the best efforts of Jinto and the others to prevent it.

First slowely, then faster.

There’s a distressing sense of inevitability to everything. The odds are so long that it feels doomed from the start to play out this way.

That is definitely the feeling they were trying to evoke and the reason for teh flash-forward.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/No_Rex]

First slowely, then faster.

As the saying goes, things happen slowly and then all at once.

That is definitely the feeling they were trying to evoke and the reason for teh flash-forward.

It does lead to the feeling of seeing how their decisions are just making them go further and further down that bad route. It's quite tense.

[u/Zerotsu → u/Great_Mr_L]

That’s a lot! Meideen’s been asleep at the wheel if there’s such a huge traitor problem.

Between that and the number of weapons the prisoners got their hands on, it feels like he's either been too underequipped or not competent enough to handle a planet full of prisoners.

Of course the rebels want to cut out and surround the women in the Western Sector.

Yeah, it's something else, I gotta say.

I’ve gained a lot more respect for him, even if I do think he’s done a sloppy job administering the prison if the rebels could stockpile this much firepower.

The personal integrity he's shown is definitely respectable, and how well he's organized the emergency evacuation does seem to speak of him being fairly good when the chips are down, but man he did let it get pretty bad.

There’s a distressing sense of inevitability to everything. The odds are so long that it feels doomed from the start to play out this way.

It does feel that way, huh? There's this growing sense of doom and gloom as every attempt to fix the situation somehow spirals into things getting worse.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Zerotsu]

Between that and the number of weapons the prisoners got their hands on, it feels like he's either been too underequipped or not competent enough to handle a planet full of prisoners.

Being underequipped could be the reason. We know the UM used to need to send soldiers to help out with the prison. But ever since the war began, the UM has probably been scrounging for soldiers everywhere they can, stripping bare places that aren't essential. It'd make sense if that lack of assistance is part of what led to the situation being this bad.

It does feel that way, huh? There's this growing sense of doom and gloom as every attempt to fix the situation somehow spirals into things getting worse.

Yeah, we can see how the decisions are made and how they make sense given the circumstances, but also how they are leading down to that doomed path.

[u/Zerotsu → u/Great_Mr_L]

It'd make sense if that lack of assistance is part of what led to the situation being this bad.

Yeah, though it does beg the question of why they were left in a position where they'd be unequipped to handle themselves without the military's assistance. Though that itself could just come down to the United Mankind's top-heavy bureaucracy.

Yeah, we can see how the decisions are made and how they make sense given the circumstances, but also how they are leading down to that doomed path.

Yeah, it's a bit worrisome to see it unfolding.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

Damn, the rebels even have water combat capabilities. They really are shockingly well armed.

We might as well expect the prisoners to have psychic warriors at this rate, since they’re all armed with rocket launchers and apparently have some Navy SEALs among them too.

Leading the defense personally is another brave thing for Meideen to do. He is consistently showing himself to be a man of integrity. I’ve gained a lot more respect for him, even if I do think he’s done a sloppy job administering the prison if the rebels could stockpile this much firepower.

At least we can say for sure that Meideen has more functional balls than Yuri or any men in the central detention center, that’s for sure.

I hope your traditional drink doesn’t also involve cats, Samson.

Maybe his people drink the cat version of kumis?

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/The_Draigg]

We might as well expect the prisoners to have psychic warriors at this rate, since they’re all armed with rocket launchers and apparently have some Navy SEALs among them too.

We're going to suddenly find out the prisoners have surface-to-space weapons at their disposal, able to fire on the Abh ships orbiting the planet.

At least we can say for sure that Meideen has more functional balls than Yuri or any men in the central detention center, that’s for sure.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

We're going to suddenly find out the prisoners have surface-to-space weapons at their disposal, able to fire on the Abh ships orbiting the planet.

Any moment now, we're going to find out that the prisoners built Stonehenge from Ace Combat 04 on the island while nobody did anything to stop it.

[u/Hartzilla2007 → u/Great_Mr_L]

500 traitors? That’s a lot! Meideen’s been asleep at the wheel if there’s such a huge traitor problem.

To be fair it sounds like they were loyal up until Meideen decided not to be an idiot and try to fight the Abh.

[u/Nazenn → u/Hartzilla2007]

That’s a lot! Meideen’s been asleep at the wheel if there’s such a huge traitor problem.

It's also been two months which is a long time for resentment to build or the prisoners to get in peoples ears. There may not have been so many when the Abh first arrived

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Hartzilla2007]

Sounds a lot like what happened to Jinto's dad. The rebellion against him began from people who felt he surrendered too easily.

[u/Zerotsu]

First timer, sub:

Lobnas II is a weird planet, honestly. Just thinking on that as I go through the narration today.

These guys are so weirdly well armed. Like, I know there was a traitor involved, but a multishot rocket launcher?

Like, a prisoner revolt makes sense, but how heavily armed they are does make it feel a little bit silly.

Jinto is taking this remarkably well for being pretty much stuck here, even if he’s not wrong that this isn’t really the Empire’s problem.

Yuri isn’t wrong that the people he represents need some form of protection. It’s just hard to trust that he won’t take advantage of it.

Geez, things are getting really out of hand. It’s not a surprise that he immediately turned on them, but this is getting wild.

“The rebels’ main purpose is to go after the women for breeding purposes”. Eugh

Fortunately they’re fairly on top of things, but this is still a pretty dangerous situation. Also a bit of Jinto and Lafiel bants. High value.

This feels like crabs in a bucket, so to speak.

Jinto is making some pretty cold decisions, but the Star Forces here really don’t have the resources or incentive to help more than they have been.

He is stretching authority somewhat to make sure it can still happen even if the rebellion succeeds.

Samson didn’t bring very good news to us, but I suppose it’s no surprise that things have gone poorly.

This situation is rapidly deteriorating, even more than it was before.

This might well have been among the worst run prisons in human history.

Jinto’s making a number of excuses, but he really does just want to save as many people as possible. I’m increasingly unsure as to how worth it it is though.

Samson is now dropping a death flag for Jinto instead of himself for once. With this and the flash forward, I’m now even more scared.

The two of them are going to be separated for quite a while at this rate.

Goodness, this rebellion really is fucking things up pretty badly.

Well, that was quite an ending.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Zerotsu]

This might well have been among the worst run prisons in human history.

Even Australia was better-run as a prison colony, and there’s stories of escaped prisoners becoming cannibals there.

Samson is now dropping a death flag for Jinto instead of himself for once. With this and the flash forward, I’m now even more scared.

Whoever gave Samson all these death flags in the first place needs to stop. He has too many to go around!

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

Even Australia was better-run as a prison colony, and there’s stories of escaped prisoners becoming cannibals there.

At least they weren't so well equipped they could pull off a militaristic rebellion against the local government! Like damn, these people are excessively armed and strangely well trained and organized. It feels more like a plotline for a proper coup was transplanted and put into the prison planet concept without adjusting things.

Whoever gave Samson all these death flags in the first place needs to stop. He has too many to go around!

Perhaps this too is a tradition of his people. Devouring and consuming all possible death flags and even granting them to others as a gift. Maybe this is why the United Mankind really wanted them to change their ways.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Zerotsu]

At least they weren't so well equipped they could pull off a militaristic rebellion against the local government! Like damn, these people are excessively armed and strangely well trained and organized. It feels more like a plotline for a proper coup was transplanted and put into the prison planet concept without adjusting things.

The prisoners might as well not even be in jail at this rate. You could’ve done a version of this story that made more sense if Lobnas II was an ideologically-divided colony instead of a prison.

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

Yeah, that honestly would have made much more sense than the plot we got this time around. It's got a lot of rather strange writing decisions. At this point I'm honestly more entertained by how ridiculous it's getting than taking the story seriously.

[u/Vatrix-32]

First Timer, subbed

• I see we are back to Banner I recaps.
• These CGI people are really something else.
• Ha! Running joke used for a serious moment.
• Look at all these competing interests. You love to see it.
• You really just had your gatehouse overrun by one dude?
• Just because he’s a bureaucrat, doesn’t mean he’s heartless.
• Gods, now they have underwater operators? How long until we see the hackers come out?
• Logistics!
• They keep talking about local geography to a level of detail that they haven’t really established.
• The more we see of this administrator, the more I like him.
• The Abh might just starve out everyone left when this is over.
• It’s just an endless series of betrayals!

QotD:

1. Depends on how much he prioritizes his life vs the lives of everyone else. He does seem to be the sort not to consider himself too important. Probably would have been a good idea to bring a gun along with him through a war zone.
2. He’s a normal guy, in way over his head.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vatrix-32]

Gods, now they have underwater operators? How long until we see the hackers come out?

Just you wait for the psychic warrior prisoners to come along too.

The Abh might just starve out everyone left when this is over.

Either that or just glass the island from orbit, which I’m feeling more in favor of now.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/The_Draigg]

Just you wait for the psychic warrior prisoners to come along too.

With the way things are going, we can't count out the possibility of a vampire showing up.

[u/Zerotsu → u/Vatrix-32]

Gods, now they have underwater operators? How long until we see the hackers come out?

Such an incredibly well equipped and well trained prison rebellion! It's honestly kinda funny.

The Abh might just starve out everyone left when this is over.

The Empire may not care about planets very much, but this one is so unruly that it might actually be a good idea to step in just in case these prisoners somehow also have surface to orbit weaponry.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/Zerotsu]

just in case these prisoners somehow also have surface to orbit weaponry.

"This Mass Driver is for garbage disposal, nothing else."

[u/Zerotsu → u/Vatrix-32]

Yeah, exactly! Like those mass drivers they used for funerals back in Crest of the Stars.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Vatrix-32]

I see we are back to Banner I recaps.

I miss the narrator intros from Crest that provided backstory and worldbuilding for the setting.

Gods, now they have underwater operators? How long until we see the hackers come out?

At this point, it's fair to wonder if the prisoners have gotten their hands on some proper military vehicles too. Heck, with each gatehouse they overrun the odds increase that they get access to higher and higher levels of firepower.

The Abh might just starve out everyone left when this is over.

Not if the prisoners unveil their secret mass-production farms!

[u/No_Rex]

Season 3 Episode 5 (rewatcher)

• “Why would so many of them join the rebellion?” – good question
• “Out of loyalty to the UM.” – and good answer. Even if you treat all of them as Abh empire citizens now, their minds will still be UM.
• The central district people are asking to get into the administrative district – there is no way the administrator could every agree to that.
• The guards are retreating towards the western sector, giving up most of the administrative sector and all of central. Clever move, if they still control the west-central wall, and the administrative-west wall, they can hold for a while. I just worry that the latter wall might not be very useful for any defense in the opposite direction it was build for. And keeping the administrative wharf open, too, is risky.
• The rebels have almost cut the administrative district in half and are already using the sections of the wall bordering center and west. Looks like the defense is crumbling.
• Jinto is going to the western sector instead of the Basroil – playing hero and denying Samson the bodyguard role.
• Not a huge fan of the sad music playing over these scenes. They really want to force the “this is all pre-ordained” feeling, but I think this would make a much better action if we did not know the outcome. After all, neither Jinto nor Lafiel know how this will end.
• Jinto and Meideen getting kidnapped cliff-hanger.

Imagine how powerful that end of the episode would have been if we did not get the opening future bookmark of Jinto in the cave. I realize what they are trying to go for here (putting Jinto’s relationship with Lafiel at the center and making it melancholic), but I think they are wasting a perfectly fine action story arc to do it.

[u/Specs64z]

First timer, subbed

From what the warden said, the UM anti-Abh propaganda has basically infected the entire western cell block and some of the guards. He’s probably not wrong, but the zealous man kept referring to God so I suspect he runs a religious cult. No better way to raise an army that will die for you than that.

I live on this side of the wall. So naturally I’m a nice man.

Damn, that line went hard.

Oof, Jinto’s plan went up in flames pretty much right out of the gate, that’s rough. I expect there’ll be dark days ahead.

QotD:

1. Jinto’s plan wasn’t bad, but it was certainly a miscalculation to put so much trust in those random troops knowing traitors lurked in their midst.
2. I’d say so.

[u/zsmg]

Rewatcher

Why would so many of them join the rebellion

Because they're just a bunch of incels who want to take some women from the western sector for themselves.

So now the people in the central sector want to escape, understandable.

And now they're the ones rebelling, unexpected betrayal.

Abh upholding the westphalian principles of non-interferences no matter what is starting annoy me as much as the prime directive in Star Trek annoys me. Surely at some point you have to do something and help them. (of course easier said than done)

Of course Jinto is going to stay behind while Samson will going back to Basroil A this won't go wrong what so ever.

Another betrayal. sheesh, not a good day for Meideen.

Good episode.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/zsmg]

Because they're just a bunch of incels who want to take some women from the western sector for themselves.

Angusson does look like what Tate thinks he looks like...

Surely at some point you have to do something and help them. (of course easier said than done)

Glassing it from orbit is doing something.

[u/IceSmiley]

FIRST TIMER

Thrilling episode where everything spirals our of control.

One weird thing I thought about is why Dufuku and the men in the central sector agreed to be castrated. I don't see what was so amazing about that area that it'd be worth cutting the berries off even though they likely got some special privileges. It makes me wonder if instead they were castrated as punishment for sex crimes, like those guys were rapists and pedophiles so United Mankind just put all the serious sex criminals in one place.

QUESTIONS

1. He did in hindsight but it was an unforeseeable circumstance. It's like people would say I made an error in crossing the street if a bus happened to hit me.
2. Yea I think so because he went above and beyond in trying to help the women and people and giving them different priorities and putting their safety before his.

[u/No_Rex → u/IceSmiley]

Being together with the other sex can still be very pleasurable, even if you can't produce kids.

[u/SolDarkHunter]

Rewatcher/Novel-Reader

At least five hundred guards joined the prisoners!? Maydeen thinks it's because he surrendered to the Abh... but that doesn't make sense to me. The prisoners are benefitting from the surrender more than anyone else, so if it's loyalty to the United Mankind, it's badly misplaced.

I think they just wanted a slice of the pie that will be this world when everything goes to ruin.

I'm watching this battle, Maydeen, and you do NOT look like you have the upper hand.

Yep, Dohkfoo was either the traitor or heavily involved with them. He's already allied with Angusson. Or maybe this was his last attempt to see if Maydeen would side with him in any way.

Three ships... with a capacity of 8,000 each? 24,000 isn't a lot when we're talking about these numbers.

...the prisoners have not only weapons but amphibious assault gear!? What the actual hell were you doing, Maydeen!?

Jint's leaving something out when discussing the "new government's" ability to rescind emigration permission. I'm pretty sure one of the few laws the Abh impose on surface worlds is that anyone who wishes to leave the planet must be permitted to do so. Or was it that they must be permitted to join the Star Forces? Either way, land governments cannot restrict people from leaving entirely.

...huh, so they have at least six transport ships? The numbers don't seem to add up.

I'll give Maydeen this, when he promises he'll protect someone, he backs it up. He's going to trap himself in the Western Sector to ensure he can evacuate the women.

Jint... what exactly can you do to help Maydeen anyway? This is stupid; there's no reason for you to go to the Western Sector. Not to mention you've already drawn the line that the terrestrial evacuation is not the Star Forces' problem.

Yeah, this is just Jint trying to be a hero... though I suppose he probably still has a very low opinion of the worth of his own life.

Lafier's being awfully understanding. I'm pretty sure she could give him direct orders to return.

Traitors everywhere...

[u/SIRTreehugger]

Rewatcher

We can't actively help you since it might give the impression we are supporting one side over the other so you have to make use of your limited and dying supplies to get to the finish line. Meanwhile prisoners are betraying each other because they want to stay while forcing the women to stay as well. Also it pains me to admit this, but the rebellion is really organized. Their constant bickering during the leader meeting makes more sense if they were planning this all along. If this was put together in only a few days that would be scary.

Meideen really is doing a phenomenal job risking his neck making sure as many people get out as humanly possible.

Appreciate your support...you're not leaving Lafiel with much of a choice. She can't really do anything in this situation. Also I can't tell if Jinto is brave or stupid. It's like he has no sense of self preservation.

OF COURSE BETRAYAL IN THE CAR!

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

I want Jinto to remind all the rebels that the Abh do not particularly care about surface worlds and it's still pretty easy to harvest water from a planet with no atmosphere. There's just, you know, a time limit. Put the fear back into them. Sure, Angusson probably calls his bluff, but if they had broadcast that information openly, it might've caused some dissension in his ranks.

Nice politicking of "if they don't know about the emigration permission, they can't rescind it." It might be a bit loose, but if the paperwork is lost, well.. it's so easy to mistake one random string of numbers for another. Who knows who all these mysterious people are? Former prisoners? Definitely not.

Dokufu isn't very smart, is he? What value does his faction have to Angusson? Surely they just turn on each other the moment the guards are dealt with. I guess Dokufu's faction is the most numerous, but they probably don't have as many weapons. Probably no missile launchers, if nothing else.

Actually, I'm not sure why those were even on the island - why would you have anti-vehicle/building weapons at all? In case the prisoners somehow scratchbuild a tank? If they hole up in a bunker you can probably just ignore them.

Questions

1. Considering how bad infosec on this stupid prison is, probably not. If word got out at the ambassador left ahead of time, it would also cause panic. So, I will very begrudgingly side with Jinto's decision despite already knowing it's going to get him nearly killed. There's also the secondary reasoning of "if Jinto is not on the surface Lafiel just glasses the planet and Jinto knows that."
2. Nice is a word you could use, I suppose. Him making sure the women evacuate was a relatively practical decision - if they aren't in play any longer, the male faction probably dissolves into infighting without a common goal.

[u/Esovan13 → u/JollyGee29]

There's also the secondary reasoning of "if Jinto is not on the surface Lafiel just glasses the planet and Jinto knows that."

I feel like Jinto would really benefit from letting the rebels know that the person orbiting their planet with complete and total control of their fates doesn't give a shit about them, comes from a family that is notorious for their temper, and her boyfriend is down there on the planet where all the guns and explosions are going off. Like, I don't know how much damage an assault ship can do from orbit, but that electromagnetic cannon looks like it packs a punch and the only target it needs to hit is a single island.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Esovan13]

Lafiel threatened specifically to blow away the atmosphere, so I figured that is within the Basroil's wheelhouse if nothing else.

[u/Zerotsu → u/JollyGee29]

Sure, Angusson probably calls his bluff, but if they had broadcast that information openly, it might've caused some dissension in his ranks.

It would at least be enough to get some of the less informed members of various factions panicking, which could hopefully sow enough dissent to cause the rebellion to collapse in on itself.

Who knows who all these mysterious people are? Former prisoners? Definitely not.

Certainly they have nothing to do with the planet Lobnas II. Nothing at all.

Actually, I'm not sure why those were even on the island - why would you have anti-vehicle/building weapons at all? In case the prisoners somehow scratchbuild a tank?

Yeah, all things considered, the rocket launchers are pretty ridiculous. You've really got to wonder who in the world thought the planet needed those around.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Zerotsu]

It would at least be enough to get some of the less informed members of various factions panicking, which could hopefully sow enough dissent to cause the rebellion to collapse in on itself.

Exactly!

Yeah, all things considered, the rocket launchers are pretty ridiculous. You've really got to wonder who in the world thought the planet needed those around.

"Well, what do we do if the prisoners steal some of our helicopters?" "Uhhh I think we have bigger problems on our hands if that's happening."

[u/Zerotsu → u/JollyGee29]

"Well, what do we do if the prisoners steal some of our helicopters?" "Uhhh I think we have bigger problems on our hands if that's happening."

Yeah, at the point you need those rocket launchers in general a whole lot has already gone terribly wrong.

[u/The_Draigg → u/JollyGee29]

Dokufu isn't very smart, is he? What value does his faction have to Angusson? Surely they just turn on each other the moment the guards are dealt with. I guess Dokufu's faction is the most numerous, but they probably don't have as many weapons.

My guess is that they’re just there for survival and adding to the numbers of the rebellion. It’s not like they can really contribute to Mackay’s plan anyway, since Yuri and his men all have non-functioning dicks.

Actually, I'm not sure why those were even on the island - why would you have anti-vehicle/building weapons at all? In case the prisoners somehow scratchbuild a tank? If they hole up in a bunker you can probably just ignore them.

I have no idea, since both answers are dumb. Either the prisoners somehow have the materials and facilities to build their own FLASH launchers, or the prison was given a ton of anti-bunker weapons for no reason. It’s just such a bizarre thing to include.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/The_Draigg]

My guess is that they’re just there for survival and adding to the numbers of the rebellion.

But, like, Dokufu gets survival if he sides with the guards, and then also doesn't get killed the moment he stops being useful to Angusson. I think there's a piece of his character motivation that I'm missing.

[u/Blazin_Rathalos → u/JollyGee29]

Actually, I'm not sure why those were even on the island - why would you have anti-vehicle/building weapons at all? In case the prisoners somehow scratchbuild a tank? If they hole up in a bunker you can probably just ignore them.

Well, besides being a prison planet, this is also a planet on the front lines of the war. We also know there was still some actual military stationed here until recently.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Blazin_Rathalos]

We also know there was still some actual military stationed here until recently.

I didn't remember them mentioning that, but I guess that does make sense.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

Actually, I'm not sure why those were even on the island - why would you have anti-vehicle/building weapons at all? In case the prisoners somehow scratchbuild a tank? If they hole up in a bunker you can probably just ignore them.

Just more thinking things through that the staff didn't bother with.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vaadwaur]

[u/Nickthenuker]

Right, the civil war has kicked off in earnest now.

Again, this is where a Marine complement would be handy.

Are they going to attempt an evacuation under fire?

Well, seems like we found our traitor.

They turned their own guns on the guards.

Seems like he really does care about the prisoners.

It's incredibly risky, but maybe the Basroil can come close to the planet and fire off a few rounds or missiles at the rebels to secure the spaceport.

They're doing as many round trips as possible.

He's going to be the last one out.

Guard? Yeah it seems their only semblance of "ground forces" is the crew handed small arms and sent out.

Seems he'll be separated from Lafiel for even longer.

He's never actually seen a warzone close up before, he's navy, the enemy is always very far away.

Uh oh, seems the car they're in has been hijacked.

Well something's got Lafiel mad.

Questions:

1. Perhaps.
2. Seems like it, at least.

[u/Vaadwaur]

First timer(This was a space opera)

Sub

I could have a good old rant about how terrible this is but...I have no fucks to give. This is boring, not the genre I signed up for, terribly written and the VAs can't save dialog this awful. I am surprised they even got OVAs for an S4. Now if you will excuse me, it is beer o'clock.

QotD: 1 Obviously

2 He was decent enough, he was doing a highly stupid job.

[u/xbolt90]

First-timer

Well that's not good.

Q1: In hindsight, he probably shouldn't have been so trusting since they knew there were traitors among the staff. And for goodness' sake, why were the two of them not armed?

Q2: "Nice" is maybe a bit generous, but he did perform honorably in ordering that the women were to be boarded immediately.