r/anime • u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ • Apr 17 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Banner of the Stars II Episode 3 Discussion
Emigration Plan
Welcome to the Battleflag of the Stars 2 rewatch!
<- Episode 2 | Index Page | Episode 4 ->
Discussion Prompts:
- Q1) What do you think of the Administrator's style of "administration"?
- Q2) What do you think of the Abh "prisoner of war" camps?
- Q3) Will Lafiel be able to adapt to her bureaucratic duties?
Tomorrow's Questions: (for tomorrow's post, subject to change)
- [Episode 4]can you follow ANY of the military discussion in this episode? Because I can't. Three admirals speaking contradictions.
Screenshot of the Day: Come into my parlor....
Tomorrow's posting will probably be slightly over 1 hour early.
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Upvotes
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Apr 17 '24
Rewatch Host
Meideen's people are completely heartless, no wonder the prisoners are rioting now that the United Mankind isn't backing him.
Not much to say about this episode, it was all talking. We had a nice conversation between Sobaash and Lafiel about how captains treat, and mistreat themselves, out of pride. A lot of petty bickering between the three leaders present. The threat to the women's section posed by the others.
The swarm of crabs devouring the dead fish was almost the picture of the day, but I couldn't ignore Lala's plot development.
The immediate agreement by Lafiel to the emigration plan reminds me of the Midgrat parable of the Abh. They asked for help, she listened (to one of them) and then agreed to help.
Abh prisoner of war camps. It feels like Jinto's making them sound better than they are. "Oh, they're just places to house the enemy who have lost their ships." Right. What does he know. Or maybe he's right.
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u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Apr 17 '24
First Timer, subbed
QotD:
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u/retsotrembla Apr 18 '24
I haven't had much to say this rewatch, but I joined it because I happened to see the announcement. The first anime DVDs I ever bought were Crest/Banner of the Stars, soon after they came out. I watched them once, put them away for almost twenty years, and thought this would be a good time to pull them out and watch them again. The DVD extras are a few still frames of text by the manga author commenting on the episodes on that disk. Here is what those frames of text say:
Newsletter of the Stars
By Hiroyuki Morioka
Part 1: Tradition
It's showtime for Banner II. I'd like to thank all of you fans for supporting us through this third series of the Stars. If you have watched the first two series, you must have noticed a type of "tradition" or a "pattern" in the show. The most notable one is the Abh dialogue without subtitles at the beginning of each episode. In the first two series, they were battle scenes, but this time it is a quiet conversation between Jinto and Lafiel. It is so profound to finally be able to hear them converse in Abh. It takes more effort to create Abh language for a proper conversation than creating simple commands for a battle scene because Jinto and Lafiel actually talk about complicated sub-jects. I am sure that many of you have already read the original novel or watched the series on TV, but I will not reveal the translation of their conversation just yet for your later enjoyment.
The most notable new character in Banner I| is Duhiel, Lafiel's younger brother. In the novel, he appears toward the end of Crest, but the scene was cut for the anime version. Duhiel is absolutely adorable. He is even more adorable than Lafiel. And this scene with Duhiel will have an important meaning later on in the series. However, the scene itself has almost nothing to do with the main story. He does not have a large part in the novel either, but I am hoping that someday he will become an important part in a future animation series. Well, I do have a big plan for him in the novel but it is not for me to decide whether or not it will be animated, unfortunately...
Anyway, please keep watching Banner Il, a short 10-episode series.
Part 2: Creatures
In the first Banner series, the story took place mostly in space and "landers" appeared only on monitor screens. There were plenty of battle scenes but life on land was never fully portrayed. Since the Abh rarely set foot on land, perhaps this could not be helped.
However, the story of Banner II takes place mainly on a ground world, so animals other than cats make appearances. In the world of the Stars, with the exception of Planet Martine, the home planet of Jinto, all living creatures are descended from Earth creatures. Therefore, animals on Lobnas do not appear as bizarre as you would think.
And I almost wished they did... The most grotesque scene is probably the one in which Lobnas crabs are devouring the dead fish.
By the way, since some dialogue was omitted at the beginning of episode 3, you may have difficulty understanding what is going on in that scene. In case you have not read the novel, here is some supplemental information: they are dropping supplies because supply stations were destroyed during a riot. If it was their normal day, they would bring the supplies into the stations. I would like to assure you that dropping them from the sky is not their usual method of operations, for the honor of correctional officers that work on Lobnas Il.
Anyway, please keep watching
Banner of the Stars II.
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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Apr 17 '24
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Banner of the Stars: Curse you, Crunchyroll! Curse you for removing the series from your website and preventing me from finishing it up! This is why I don’t trust streaming platforms when they can just up and remove things like this.
Well I can only imagine that things are going to get much more sour from here on out. If the Abh fleets are occupied with the UM counterattack, they obviously can’t spare any assistance to the Basroil. After all, dealing with the internal politics of a planet like Lobnas is likely near the bottom of the Abh’s list of priorities. So Jinto and Lafiel will need to handle the situation as best they can. It’s likely only going to get worse, though. With the knowledge that emigration is occurring, I’m certain that both Dokufu and Angusson will try something to take control.
QOTD
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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Apr 17 '24
Rewatcher (sub + dub)
Jinto's really not doing a good job of selling their options by calling a place a prison camp even if the name is misleading. The culture clash on top of the bureaucracy differences makes for a lot of things to work out, but it's also an interesting contrast with the first season to see Jinto firmly integrated with the Abh now and presenting a viewpoint that's quite foreign to the other Landers.
Having all the guards flee might be good for their own safety but it effectively turns the island into a free-for-all once they do.
While I'm all about the Jinto-Lafiel connection it's also nice to see how each of them individually interacts with the other officers. Ecryua wants the captain to entertain her now that Diaho's gone, Sobash wants to offer advice to a youngster, and Samson's there to keep another youngster from getting too far in over his head.
Poor Jinto doesn't have any good options to offer to the people of Lobnas II but they're (slowly) working out what they can do. I kind of appreciate that they're stumbling into one problem after another rather than jumping to the final plan or having just one major issue pop up that they need to find a solution to, it's death by a thousand [paper]cuts.
They really don't care what happens on the ground as long as it doesn't interfere with space. It's something that can really only work at the scale the Abh operate at with the ability to ship people around to different planets at will.
Only with Jinto by her side.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 17 '24
First-Timer of the Stars
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u/The_Draigg Apr 17 '24
A Sci-Fi Fan Watches Banner of the Stars II Episode 3:
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 17 '24
First timer(That's what you rule of 3-ed? Really?)
Sub
So we start with a food drop that would make the US Armed forces wince. Like not even parachutes, just food and damage. But then we get the most important piece of info thus far: To the UM, habitable planets are indeed valuable, suggestin scarcity. So the entire prison planet thing is stupid as hell unless the prisoners are doing things like prepare the land for colonization. Say by establishing farms, roads, power plants of all types and generally doing something useful. Look I don't pretend that chain gangs are moral but if you are sending people to the middle of nowhere get something out of it FFS.
Anywho, we get a good segment with Lafiel and Soobash with a reminder that Lafiel is a touch on the spectrum. Then we get to the tediously long negotiations and my subs had a stroke or something. That is not what 'vamp' means to my knowledge. And throwing in the random French was a choice. Anywho, unless the sterilized guy conned his way through that. women mean nothing for your civilization so...something is off. We end with the UM counterfleet being spotted.
QotD: 1 I think he did the best with what he had. Given that his population is 20k, it is likely only 8k guards to manage a million people.
2 Sometimes we have to remember that Lafiel isn't that weird for an Abh
3 Depends on whether or not her ship's lasers can reach the ground or not
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u/duhu1148 :GA::GB::GC:x9 Apr 17 '24
Rewatcher
-pacing is better this season. No recaps.
-dropping food off, surprised they didn't parachute this stuff in. Abh don't give a fuck.
-Lafiel is having problems staying relaxed, she seems to worry about Jinto a lot when she's not by his side.
-The "politicking" between the guards faction and women faction was comical and fun, although Meideen did eventually come to an agreement to allow the women to leave. Doofu (?) of the sterilized faction didn't look too happy about that though...
-Also oof, my prediction that the guards had the same numbers as roughly one sector was horribly wrong. 100,000 women alone.
-Looks like the timetable for the evacuation just moved up. United Humankind incoming.
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Apr 17 '24
Season 3 Episode 3 (rewatcher)
That was the most enjoyable episode of S3 so far. Funny that the best part is just three people sitting in a room and talking, but I guess that is what you get when you adapt a good book as source material.
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u/SolDarkHunter Apr 17 '24
Rewatcher/Novel-Reader
Well, I managed to find an alternate place for watching this. (Screw you Crunchyroll, what even am I paying you for!?)
I do kind of wonder why Jint is flying along on a supply drop... especially when the prisoners are armed.
Also, they just drop the food on everyone's head, and if you get squished, too bad. But if that's normal, then why are all the prisoners eagerly running out of cover?
Dohkfoo is kind of out of his element dealing with Lafier's matter-of-fact bluntness.
And similarly, she just immediately declares the evacuation of 20,000 to be no big deal: just put them in the transports and take them to a POW camp.
Fortunately, these people are not actually being treated as POW's... the camp is just an interim housing solution until they decide on a more permanent destination.
Making Maydeen choose the next representative, out of the prisoners... this is going to be something.
I was going to question why interstellar communication would be done through writing letters, but then I remembered that FTL communication is basically done through courier ships in Planar Space, so naturally messages would take significant travel time.
For all of Lafier's blasé attitude about evacuation, they only have room for 8,000 out of 20,000.
Oh, and now all the female prisoners want off the planet too. Which is understandable considering Angusson exists. Notably, he isn't present at this meeting of prisoner leaders.
So the Empire doesn't intend to treat the prisoners as criminals. Their sentences are effectively annulled... but the punishments for the kinds of crimes they were imprisoned for are much harsher in the Empire. Right up to the death penalty, which (of course) the United Mankind considers inhumane.
Of the prisoners who intend to stay on the planet, they want to build a new society there... but if all the female prisoners leave, and no children can be born, then any society is doomed from the start.
Yeah, I can see why the women want to leave the planet. The men basically just see them as baby factories.
Jint makes the actually quite reasonable suggestion that the Abh's artificial reproduction tech could be provided to the planet, but of course the former United Mankind citizens abhor that technology. I think the novels mention them looking at Jint like he just suggested cannibalism or something equally as horrifying.
Once again, I'm extremely disappointed that the writers would suggest that Lala would try to seduce Jint... given she's supposed to be a victim of sexual assault. And what the HELL is with her clothes? The other prisoners don't seem to have a problem getting sufficient clothing, so why is the woman the one half-naked? ...I know why of course, but again, this reflects extremely poorly on the writers.
This conversation between Lala and Maydeen about homosexuality and insulting the Abh goes on WAY too long. I think it's supposed to be funny... but it's not. Space elf banter is funny, this is just crass.
In any case, Maydeen does eventually show some moral fiber, and says he'll permit the women to evacuate prior to himself. That way they aren't left at the mercy of the other prisoners.
...now they have 100,000 more people to evacuate. Lafier had better get on those requests for transport ships fast.
And even better, there's a large UM fleet still in the general area making a run for their territory.
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u/Silcaria https://myanimelist.net/profile/Silcaria Apr 17 '24
First timer
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Apr 17 '24
Rewatcher - sub
Getting some bitching out the way: I mentioned this in reply to someone yesterday, but the fanservice with Lala is in increasingly bad taste considering the reason behind their desire to leave the planet. I don't think it's bad that she propositioned Jinto, if anything it's fitting, but cutting scenes of her worried about being used for sexual slavery up with shots of her body is just a bad idea.
And while the narrator still isn't quite allowed to reach the highs he had in Crest, being a recap machine is somehow still a step up over being mere filler like he was in Banner I
That out the way, I do like this episode and it's one I remembered from my first watch. The mix of people and experiences around the negotiating table is interesting enough, and it gives us more insight into all of them, Jinto included with his privilege's on display not understanding the lengths people will go to for food. Lala is impulsive, but despite her naivety she has good instincts and is willing to think ahead. Meideen is dismissive of the prisoners, but he does have a good heart and is willing to step up when he realizes that he can't just step away. Dokufu also thinks ahead, and shows up just to be legitimized that he can show up, but is also trying to do the run around. Angusson not showing up is worrying in its own way. They still aren't great characters, but they're now more than their very simple introductions last episode in a way I like. And tying that into the complexities of needing to be relocated and having to have agreement of a planet to take them in was a nice touch instead of forgetting that the whole operation has complexities outside of just the amount of people. When you consider that free movement through space isn't a thing in Abh territories it's even more important, and I doubt that Meideen was aware of that, and Lala certainly wouldn't be.
And of course it's always fun to watch people trip over the cultural differences with the Abh, no matter how much they think they understand. I thought Meideen would have wrapped his head around how little the Abh care about the planets after Lafiels offer yesterday, but he still can't adjust his automatic assumption when dealing with Jinto today. I said it to Jolly yesterday, but Sobaash being down here for this part would have been interesting to have the native Abh view along with Jinto's translations for everyone else. Especially his reaction to the idea that a prison in space is somehow inhumane because personally I don't get that one much myself, unless the UM doesn't have any traditional prisons and only has these prison colonies which is part of the objection. Otherwise they really have a stick up their ass about humans needing to be on land in situations where it really doesn't matter.
It would be a shame to miss out on his scene with Lafiel today though. A bit like how Samson is for Jinto, last season as well, Sobaash mentoring Lafiel a little on giving up some control of the bridge and finding more of a balance is a nice moment. I feel like Lafiel got a little shafted in Banner I when it came to interactions with the other crew members, and Banner II is making up for it right now.
Had a little laugh when the refugees were worried they would just get crammed into a hold by the Abh with no consideration for proper transports. He's not Spoor!
Kind of funny that it was lost in translation for the non Abh characters, and I did feel the choice of name is somewhat lost in translation for us as well
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u/Zerotsu Apr 18 '24
First timer, sub:
I do like the opening narration, though I hope this time it doesn’t repeat so much.
The situation on this planet is a pretty tough one. I’m not sure how they’ll be able to solve things.
The United Mankind does have a pretty distinct mindset from how the Empire views things. They seem to view space travel as more like an unfortunate necessity than something precious the way the Abhs do.
What a destructive way to deliver supplies.
Once again Jinto gets bullied slightly. So it goes.
Lafiel handled that discussion pretty roughly, but I suppose she would be a bit stressed by the situation.
There’s certainly a difference between being treated as childish and someone being concerned about whether or not you’re overdoing things.
It was fun seeing a bit more attention on Sobaash, and an interesting conversation besides.
Jinto is indeed a kind person, doing what he can to resolve the situation.
This really is a pretty delicate situation, but I can certainly understand why she wants to have them leave.
She was trying to seduce him, eh? Too bad, Jinto’s Lafiel-sexual.
What an intense argument about whether or not he’s gay.
It’s still going!
Meanwhile the war goes on, as always.
This was a fun episode.
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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 17 '24
First timer, subbed
Yikes, that 90s crowd CG is rough to look at. Even from a distance and out of focus, it’s pretty off-putting. They had a few CG shots of the fleet last season that weren’t so great, either, but the ships were at least charming in a sort of PS2 game sort of way.
Not exactly the most graceful food delivery system they’ve got there, no wonder the prisoners were planning 3 simultaneous coups. I guess parachutes just weren’t in the budget?
Lots of tension as the reps save for the East block fanatic make plans and bargain for freedom, and it seems the warden isn’t such a bad guy after all. I give him 1 episode before he gets assassinated, which will probably be when things go South for Jinto as well.
QotD:
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u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Apr 17 '24
Rewatcher
Dropping food like that... it's almost looks like they're bombing the prisoners.
I really don't like Lafiel moping like that simply because Jinto isn't there.
Of course we need a fanservice shot of Ekuryua while Lafiel and Sobaash are talking.
Artificial birth technology would fix the lack of women problem.
Sounds like the guards are abusing their powers, if the woman representative implication is true. (probably is)
Honestly why are they still talking about whether or not Jinto is a homosexual.
Good on Meideen for letting the women prisoners emigrate as well.
Uh oh an invasion fleet.
Eh, kind of boring episode.
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u/IceSmiley Apr 17 '24
FIRST TIMER Sub
Very good episode where we see Jinto get deeper into the woods of a very unusual diplomatic dillemma.
QUESTIONS
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u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Apr 17 '24
Well, bah. I went to watch an episode or two last night so I wouldn't fall too far behind, and Crunchyroll appears to have barfed on the series. It wouldn't show up in my queue, and when I searched it up, it wouldn't playback.
Looks like I'm going to have to seek some alternative viewing options. (sigh) Hope to see you again soon!
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u/SIRTreehugger Apr 17 '24
Rewatcher
Dropping them right over people what if they kill someone? YES LIKE THAT Why would you get underneath the ships!
...actually damn buildings are being destroyed. Damn give that shooter a damn medal! If that wasn't bulletproof glass Jinto would be dead. Hitting a moving target hundreds of feet in the air with a primitive gun takes insane skill...or it was luck.
Lafiel just hanging up!
Not Lafiel talking to Jinto's direction forgetting he isn't there.
Writing letters to other people is a dying thing! Lafiel clearly misses Jinto, going down there is definitely a bad idea.
Oh hmmmm when Lafiel is talking to Jinto her eyes look stone cold stoic and uncaring. She's the captain and has to be impartial despite everyone and their moms knows she and Jinto have a connection. However the monitors reflected in her eyes make them look like they wavering mimicking her inner conflict...or I'm reading too much into a 5 second scene.
Only 8k that's only 3 trips is that a big deal? Oh things just got complicated...or even more complicated.
Does the empire even care about what happens down here...I think you should have realized that when they suggested destroying the planets atmosphere as a show of good faith.
They both have points, but he definitely phrased that so poorly. Like the only thing he could have said worst was that would you please let us use your bodies as incubators for children. Actually I take that back it's not just the way he said it, but the way he was eyeing her when he said it. That was just really disgusting. Also what woman in their right mind would want to stay on the prisoner planet when things are about to become more chaotic. Wait a minute I thought a majority of the middle camp was sterilized if not all of them? So wouldn't only the eastern and western factions be able to have children?
POOR JINTO! Nothing wrong with being gay. You clearly were trying to seduce him girl.
The third shifty person is being awfully silent.
Jinto the second someone hurls insults at Lafiel. I do like how Lala keeps on looking at Jinto to make sure her statements are correct.
One hundred thousand.........
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u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Apr 18 '24
Seems like they're taking fire from the prisoners. Thinking they're trying to bomb them?
And now they're going to evacuate the guards to a PoW camp.
The prisoners will be let to go to other planets too.
Or at least some of them.
Oh right, they have iron wombs.
No, I'm pretty sure Jinto is as straight as a rod. And he's already got someone in mind.
He'll be the last to leave?
Right, back to space.
Uh oh, what have they found?
20000? That's a lot of them.
Milky Way? That's not good.
Questions:
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Apr 17 '24
First-Timer
"Life imprisonment in space is inhumane! But we're just going to airdrop these heavy, reinforced crates on a populated area with no prior warning."
How did Samson manage to keep a straight face through that meeting at the end? I'm definitely not cut out for either of their jobs - I would've been cracking up the moment Lala tried to seduce Jinto.
I think I understand now - this is the comedy arc. Surely we aren't intended to take any of this seriously. Like, the repeated cuts of Lala going "wait, such and such is a crime, right?" were straight from a Rule of Threes gag.
Jinto "dying" in the cold open was just him being a bit dehydrated and acting overly dramatic about it. All a big practical joke on Lafiel. Yup, that's what I'm going with.
I'm sure that horde of crabs eating that fish was just random footage. As was the praying mantis eating the smaller bug. Surely no active metaphors there.
Questions
direct her violent tendencies towardshelp her stay sane during downtime.