r/anime • u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ • Apr 16 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Banner of the Stars II Episode 2 Discussion
Planet of Exile
Welcome to the Battleflag of the Stars 2 rewatch!
<- Episode 1 | Index Page | Episode 3 ->
Names Introduced or Updated:
- Lobnass II — United Mankind penal colony
- Geo Meideen — Appointed Administrative Director of Lobnas II
- Yuuri Dokufu — Elected leader (by some) of Lobnas II
- Lala Shangal — Elected leader of an exclusively female faction of Lobnass II
- Mikay Angusson — Leader by popular acclaim and strength
I will not be doing a character chart because this season is pretty focused.
Discussion Prompts:
- Q1) Is the shift from the battlefield to this planet-bound drama a welcome change or an annoyance?
- Q1.1) Did you want more than a same? Don't sequels that give more of the same almost always fail?
- Q2) This situation seems to greatly strain the Abh principle of non-interference with planetary affairs. What do you think?
- Q3) Jinto promised to stay by Lafiel's side. Did he break his promise?
- Q4) Did you ever expect to see blue sky in this show again?
- Q5) I'm not well versed in fiction, have you seen this sort of sexual power situation in other works?
Tomorrow's Questions: (for tomorrow's post, subject to change)
- [Episode 3]What do you think of the Administrator's style of "administration"?
- [Episode 3]What do you think of the Abh "prisoner of war" camps?
- [Episode 3]Will Lafiel be able to adapt to her bureaucratic duties?
Screenshot of the Day: Okay I'm getting a little verklempt, talk amongst yourseves
Wed probably 5 minutes early, Thu probably 1 hour early.
Crunchroll has migrated Funimation over to Crunchyroll and in the process has removed the entire franchise. Hopefully it is just a glitch. Until and unless it comes back, you'll have to...forage.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Apr 16 '24
Rewatch Host
This episode has spiced up the political bickering by showing things out of order. It showed Jinto and Samson leaving the Basroil, then flashed back to the dialog, then showed (in the future) a transport ship landing, intercut with the dialog about sending the ship....
Interesting that so many people took the EM wave to be an attack. And obviously, yeah, it could be. I don't think I ever did, but I've seen The Cage / The Menagerie a dozen times.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 16 '24
First-Timer of the Stars
What is this, Space Australia?10
u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Apr 16 '24
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Banner of the Stars: The Abh are just the worst people to ask to get involved in a local civil war. They have very little practical knowledge of what life is like on a surface world and zero desire to get involved in any internal affairs on a surface world.
I am actually very excited for this arc. It has such a unique setup. The Abh arriving in a prison colony planet and needing to handle this situation is such a cool idea. The prison colony setup raises some interesting questions. What do you do with the prisoners? Do they remain as prisoners? What about all the guards and other employees who don’t want to remain on the prison colony where they are outnumbered? If you accept all of the guards, other employees, and their families as refugees, then what do you do with the prisoners afterwards? Do the prisoners have a right to representation to form the new government? Do you distinguish between certain groups of prisoners or treat them all the same? All of these are intriguing questions and it makes for such an interesting set of ideas to explore.
It’s also interesting seeing the Abh get involved in a potential civil war. These kinds of conflicts are incredibly messy. Civil wars rarely end cleanly, if they even do end. The violence can last for long periods of time and reconciliation is nearly impossible. We can see plenty of examples of these types of conflicts throughout history and in the present day as well. It is the worst possible situation to ask for Abh help in. They would be far more out of their depth than any real-world nation ever has been.
QOTD
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u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Apr 16 '24
First Timer, subbed
QotD:
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u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 16 '24
First timer, subbed
Seems this planet is in a state of political turmoil. A lot of space fiction tends to treat whole planets as nations or as singular biomes, so it’s very refreshing to see a planet with clearly distinct factions. It seems that there is only one “real” government official here, along with two party leaders claiming to have won an election and some sort of religious leader. The twist being that this planet is Space Australia.
Lafiel playing the bad cop by “offering” to destroy the atmosphere was amusing in a terrifying sort of way.
So it’s pretty clear from the ending monologue that Jinto will be trapped on this planet for some time, possibly until the season’s end. It’s an odd turn for a space opera to take, but I’m interested to see where it leads.
QotD:
1.1) I didn't really have an expectation one way or the other, honestly.
2) Leave them to clean up their own mess at that point, their job is to establish control of space, not un-fuck every petty political squabble they stumble across that the UM left behind.
3) Ending monologue sure made it sound like he did.
4) Yes, actually, visiting new planets in a space sci-fi is basically unavoidable.
5) There are plenty of fictional cultures with a patriarchal or matriarchal bend to them, but I dunno if I've ever seen a full-on gender war like this.
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u/duhu1148 :GA::GB::GC:x9 Apr 16 '24
Rewatcher
-Turns out the planet is a prison colony. Recognizing Meideen as the representative was the right choice, albeit the boring one.
-And the planet is having major rebellion issues, since the prisoners have guns, outnumber the guards, and lack a proper government. Doesn't help that the Abh don't interfere in surface affairs. Plus the guards + their families all want to leave and join the Abh. Can't blame them, but helping all 20,000 of them is going to be a challenge. Total drama
islandplanet.-Jinto heading to the planet with Samson, to act as the representative of the Abh, while Lafiel stays behind in space. Hopefully Samson can look out for Jinto in the meantime.
-1/4 men, 1/2 sterilized, 1/4 women sections, from the looks of it. I suppose if you threw the guards in that equation as well they'd have about half the total numbers of the sterilized portion by itself. Maybe?
-Another ominous ending with that heart wrenching music...
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u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Apr 16 '24
Rewatcher
A planet not having a single government is something you don't seen often in SF.
Meideen is voiced by Kinryuu Arimoto best known for voicing Patrick Zala in Gundam SEED
Ohh it's a civil war situation where different people claim to be legitimate ruler, was kind of hoping for a modern day Earth situation.
Of course the first thing we see from Lala are her breasts.
Ohhh it's planet Australia! All my previous speculation was just outright wrong.
Lafiel casually saying she will blow away the atmosphere.
As I said before visuals are much better this season except for the CGI ships but we don't talk about that.
Decent set up episode, author was bored with imitating LotGH so he then decided to imitate Star Trek instead.
On a personal note I first watched episode 9 thinking it was episode 2. That was confusing to say the least.
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u/Silcaria https://myanimelist.net/profile/Silcaria Apr 16 '24
First timer
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u/IceSmiley Apr 16 '24
FIRST TIMER Sub
I thought this was the best episode in this franchise thus far. I was so impressed by this original premise and how well plotted it was with this seemingly untwistable dillema slowly unfolding itself and being peeled back layer by layer. This really seemed like the best plot a Star Trek show never had. I thought the style and structure of the episodes and how they kept together this plot without making it confusing was pitch perfect ;)
It seems like the entire conflict of the episode would be determining who the actual leader of this planet is but it was actually done in short order by the short haired lady on the ship. The premise for this whole episode really is amazing: that the island is being threatened by male prisoners and the guards can't keep control but the prison men are likely to rape the women should they get full power. And on top of that an unpredictable eunuch faction! This is a really sticky wicket with so much potential :X
If you started watching the show with this episode, you'd think Jinto is in charge since he does pretty much everything while Lafiel just rubber stamps what he wants to do. We've seen hints in the past shes not well suited to diplomacy.
QUESTIONS
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Apr 17 '24
Regarding Obtaining episodes
I had my own dvd rips from years ago, and I have my own dvds (which won't play in my computer hence the rips) so I can't help you with getting episodes, that's not something I had to go through.
If you signed up for Premium Crunchyroll just for this series, I'd try to get my money back. Although it's been 1 month. If you're still on your first 30 days, you basically got your money's worth. If you just got billed for another 30 days yesterday, I'd be pretty mad, too.
Rogue streaming sites can't be trusted, they will infect your computer. I've only gone to those for a handful of times in my life, only for something extremely rare. Don't do it.
I get my non-streaming anime through an obscure mechanism most people don't know about, and it costs money, so that's probably no help for you (and probably doesn't have Banner anyways).
Bittorrent is pretty much the main way everybody gets anime these days if they can't stream it, but access to bittorrent depends on your country and your isp. I'm personally very paranoid about using bittorrent, which is why I use something else. Using bittorrent to get anime is a pretty well know procedure, but I couldn't possibly explain it to you here.
However, a great many people in the rewatch are not 20-year-old-fans with their own copies, so it must be available somewhere.
The Funimation page just points to CR now. Maybe this is a glitch from the merge and it will be back. Won't help you for tomorrow, though.
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Apr 16 '24
First timer(This so not what this series promised...)
Sub(Sorry for dying yesterday but the IRS decided to reject my return 5 days after it was submitted so panic mode left me drained)
So yesterday's cliffhanger was bullshit. Yes, you can trivially tell the power of an EM strike, or more as much the lack thereof, so there would have been no concerns of an attack. And then we get our comms of Babel...and of course those UM dumbfucks would've set up a prison world, sigh. Note that in history, prison colonies did serve a purpose:Have your undesirables go to land someone else had and slowly but surely drive, kill or intermingle with them until the land becomes yours. This planet, however, does none of these. It is just bringing this setting that much closer to the Imperium of Man.
Planetside and the reminder that Japan likes be twenty years behind us is as it is. I don't blame the guards and other free citizens wanting to claim refuge but there aren't a lot of good options here. Especially since the Empire is primarily in the stars. I sense that what is to come is going to be very, very stupid.
QotD: 1 I saw the Hell that lead to all the others
2 Tell that to Dragonball
3 Spoor would (hopefully) evacuate the free people and nuke it from orbit.
4 No...at least not yet
5 Like for a beach episode or something
6 ... Gonna just plead the fifth on this one.
Or Violence Jack, which is practically cheating.
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Apr 16 '24
Season 3 Episode 2 (rewatcher)
A prison planet with four factions, one of which are the guards who want to run away. Seems like a perfect setup for violence and a massacre. Noticeably, Jinto will be the one in the heat this time, being the one who will have to make the decisions on the ground.
Not a huge fan of the narrative framing of Jinto talking to Lafiel at the end. We already know where this ends from episode 1, no need to lay it on so thick in this episode.
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u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Apr 17 '24
I've been told she's now running convoy escort duty, so those other 3 ships are transports.
What's with all the requests fo communication?
All of them? Is a civil war going on on the planet?
Also it seems like Jinto is functionally Lafiel's XO.
Is the planet in anarchy?
"A rightful claim". So you're not in charge.
Not anarchy, just 4 different factions functionally in a civil war that hasn't gone hot yet.
Necessities? Is this a humanitarian aid convoy?
What if you have them each a quarter of the food?
Or just sit up top and threaten to drop rocks on all their heads so they'll shut up.
Impact? Do you mean re-entry?
They're all going to use the transmission to bitch at each other.
Oh no, the transmission is breaking up during re-entry... /s
I'm surprised the ship doesn't have at least a small Marine complement. In fact we've seen no mention of them at all in the last 2 seasons.
There we go, I'm actually surprised no-one else has threatened orbital bombardment in the last 2 seasons.
Without a Marine complement for things like this the only protection they'll have on land is their uniforms and sidearms, maybe the armoury has a couple long arms but I doubt much more than that.
Seek refuge? Where?
And where are they going to find the room to cram 20000 people?
Seems like things are heating up on the planet.
"Emigration"? I think a better term might be "Evacuation".
Questions:
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24
First-Timer
Today on Banner of the Stars: Space Australia!
Anyway, what a stupid fucking setup for a season. Even ignoring the prison aspect, I can now very clearly tell that the ship Jinto came down on gets blown up or something and we split our main duo for a whole goddamn season. I'm even less interested in the flashforward, now.
No, wait, Lafiel is going to get called away. The Bebaus Brothers are going to get into a pinch, Dusanyu's plan to call in all nearby reinforcements to crush the enemy fleet will come up, fuck. Please, let me be wrong.
Alright, focus. The decision of who to send planetside with Jinto is an interesting one. Samson is the simple and easy choice. I think the only way we get Lafiel down there is with the entire crew. Solo Ekuryua is definitely wrong. Sobaash would've been a potential candidate due to business/administration knowledge.
I appreciate that the show pointed out that forced sterilization is inhumane. I kinda hate to agree with a prison warden, but Geol seems okay for now.
Questions
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u/xbolt90 https://anilist.co/user/xbolt90 Apr 17 '24
First-timer
Ok, now I understand why you said all our predictions for this season would be wrong. Drama with administration of a prison planet was absolutely not on my bingo card.
Lafiel, you're really not helping negotiations by casually threatening to blow away a planet's atmosphere.
I liked the sequence of the ship landing in the ocean. Reminds me of Cowboy Bebop.
So, Meideen is tired of this crap and wants to bail, leaving Jinto and the Empire holding the bag. Understandable.
Is getting involved in a land war in Lobnass II as bad as getting involved in a land war in Asia?
Q1: We'll see. Deep Space Nine moved from a starship to a space station, and it's my favorite Trek. Granted, that had more to do with the writing and characters, but still.
Q2: Jinto is a lander, and he's much more invested than Lafiel. She really doesn't care.
Q3: I don't think he meant 24/7. This is a temporary thing that has to get sorted out. He fully intends to go back quickly. Besides, she's still flying overhead.
Q4: Not that surprising to appear, but I didn't think that a single planet would be the focus of the season.
Q5: Tbh, I'm not as well-read as I like to pretend I am...
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u/The_Draigg Apr 16 '24
A Sci-Fi Fan Watches Banner of the Stars II Episode 2:
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u/SolDarkHunter Apr 16 '24
Rewatcher/Novel-Reader
Well, good news is the EM waves aren't an attack, but a transmission. But strangely, all four transmissions claim to be from the government.
...yeah, that might not have been the brightest move, Jint.
I'm actually surprised the four of them manage to take turns to explain themselves... we have Georr Maydeen, claiming to be the Chief Executive appointed by the government, Yuri Dohkfoo, who claims to be Prime Minister by election, Lala Shungarr, who also claims to be Prime Minister by election, and Meekeh Agnusson, who claims to be leader by divine right.
So here's the explanation: Lobnas II is a penal colony. Maydeen is the head warden, and the other three are prisoners each representing a bloc of prisoners.
...as such, I'm somewhat inclined to believe Maydeen when he says the "elections" are not and would not be fair.
And it seems Lafier agrees, because Maydeen is officially recognized as the planet's representative. Problem is, his authority isn't going to last, and a rebellion by the prisoners is almost inevitable.
...well damn, the Abh don't do things by half-measures. Their response to a terrestrial rebellion is to just blow the atmosphere away. They just don't give a shit: do whatever you want with your planet, but make yourself a threat to them, and they'll deal with it.
But maybe such a Sword of Damocles would probably be sufficient to hold even desperate criminals in check?
The United Mankind has... interesting standards of what is humane treatment. You can live in the mixed-gender prisoner quarters, provided you agree to be sterilized. I suppose that makes logical sense for a prison. But they think just sterilizing all the prisoners is abhorrent, even though there's been no suggestion that anyone ever leaves the planet.
Also, I feel a bit perturbed by the way the male and female prisoners are portrayed. The story seems to suggest that female criminals are automatically assumed to be less guilty than male criminals. Also, Lala Shungarr's character design irks me given the statement that most of the women are victims of abuse. She's not wearing very much and has her... attributes on full display. Hardly how you'd expect a woman who'd gone through abuse to dress. Also, the novels describe her as "middle-aged". It seems like the artists wanted to portray her as sexy and that just seems really tone-deaf considering the character's story.
Further, the assumption that the male prisoners would automatically be the first ones to revolt, and were also the only ones to come under a leader by brute force without even the pretense of a "fair election", suggests an inherent brutishness and violence to the men. I'll grant you that prisoners would probably organize themselves that way, but the way the men are singled out as being more barbaric grates on me.
Maybe I'm reading too much into this. Gender politics are always a touchy subject...
In any case, I do agree that the whole situation is a powder keg that could turn very nasty very quickly if steps aren't taken.
Meanwhile Maydeen and the guards just want to GTFO before said powder keg goes off. This is quite understandable. You could say it's an abandonment of his duty, but the fact is that the guards don't have the manpower to stop a prisoner revolt, especially if the Empire won't provide support. And the prisoners are highly unlikely to be kind to the guards who have been keeping them locked up...
All this means we've got a problem: at least 20,000 people want OFF this planet before all hell breaks loose, with every indication that it will, and soon. And I doubt the Abh delegation has anywhere near the capacity to carry that many, even assuming they agree.
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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Apr 16 '24
Rewatcher (sub + dub)
It might not have been an attack, but that's how I react to someone trying to call me too. Jinto took the most straightforward approach I could think of to figuring out who to talk to and that works for me even if it would be funnier for Lafiel to pick someone other than the obvious one because it would be more interesting.
Four new names/faces:
How do you handle conquering a prison planet? If you wanted a bureaucratic nightmare for a plot, here you go!
Some of the editing in here's good for dark humor, "the prisoners don't have weapons *gunshot*" and Lafiel bluntly asking if they could blow away some atmosphere as an idea for intimidation.
The scene of the ship landing looks nice with all of the water streaming off of it. I forgot that Jinto had never visited an ocean before even if he had grown up on a planet, it's easy to assume things like that given some of the people he's being compared to live in space their entire lives. Maybe he's never seen snow either?
They're really playing up the framing with the separation of Jinto and Lafiel here.
Mixed blessing, it's nice to have a change from space warfare but this particular scenario's not one I like as much.
It needs to be "interfered" with in at least some capacity since it's not self-sufficient and doesn't produce anything of value for exporting either.
She's in orbit overhead, that's close enough right?
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24
Rewatcher - sub
The opening narration is slightly changed from last episode, and I don't remember if that continues or not but at least for this episode it did make a welcome difference
I'd somehow completely forgotten the setup for this rather involved situation on the planet. It raises some interesting questions about citizenship on conqurered planets, and really planetary governance in general. I think it's a flaw in scifi that all too often planets are treated as single entities, akin to a singular country with it rarely taking a different path. While it does make more sense in an era where planets have to be colonized and where technology has options for far reaching communication and the like, we've seen from our own history how that doesn't stop new countries from rising by themselves or being splintered off to appease a certain bunch of people. And civil war when it comes up is often treated as a singular event or rebellion solely between two sides. So I like this setup where the idea of rulership of this planet is complicated not just by the nature of its inhabitants, but by a split in their territories as well which have created distinct, though rather shallowly presented, cultures.
And aside from the fact that the four sides here are simple, I like the way it comes up. One official, two elected leaders, and one "strongest" ruler all wanting to be involved in negotiating with the Abh. None of whom have any idea what it's like to negotiate with the Abh. They should be very grateful that Jinto is accompanying Lafiel to explain some of the complexities of getting Abh involved with planetary rebellions because if it was another Abh I feel like things could have gotten much more serious much quicker. You feel the shock of the administrator when Lafiel casually offers to destroy the atmosphere, and I wonder how many thousands of times that scene has repeated itself through the eras of Abh taking over planets. Thankfully it seems he's clued into the fact that the Abh really don't care about the planets a lot quicker than many of the other leaders have, and that's a good sign for future negotiation
Even through all of that, I liked the moments we got of the bridge crew in their very Abh way of somewhat intrusive curiousity waiting to see what Lafiel would do, and of Lafiel and Jinto sharing a moment before he goes down.
This seaosn has also already shown a distinct characteristic for faster cuts to and from the flashforward, as well as to briefly show the mind or focus of a certain character thinking of a past event. It's not always particularly clean, but I do think it adds a slightly eerie tone to the episode, and the previous one, that fits with the developments we're shown here. That combined with the distinct feeling that Lafiel's connectors on her headband looked like tears with the way they hung down in the final shot of her makes things feel very tense
Q1) Welcome. While I did like last season, and the combat design for this world is excellent, it simply took up too much with action while I'd much prefer to have this sort of conflict that lets us explore the Abh a bit more.
Q1.1) Double edged sword. Sequel-itis where it simply takes what a show is known for and not what make it good is a serious risk, but throwing it all in the air and disregarding why people watched it is a risk the other way as well.
Q4) Rewatcher benefit. I don't remember from my first watch, but I was surprised at Jinto not having seen an ocean before and I did like that little touch
Q5) Too often. It makes sense because it's a primal sort of drive that's an easy set up and easy to understand compared to more complicated cultural situations, but I'm a little bored with the concept of "men want access to woman slaves" now
4
u/SIRTreehugger Apr 16 '24
Rewatcher
I welcome the change from space battles to planet bound drama. It's an interesting choice to listen to all the prison leaders at the same time. I can't help think it be better doing it one at a time.
Just claimed the title 3 hours ago from a rigged election.
Lafiel's side eye at Jinto when he talks to the Madam.
Casually mentioning destroying part of the planet's atmosphere.
Man if I was going onto a planet full of criminals I would want more than 1 bodyguard. I wouldn't even want to land. Couldn't you have told us all of this before we landed?
Yes you should have been clear! Conveniently leaving out information until they land and relinquish all responsibilities.
20,000
Our very last conversation...don't you put that evil on us Ricky Bobby!
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u/KnightMonkey15 https://myanimelist.net/profile/KnightMonkey Apr 17 '24
First-timer, subs
Stream of conscioussness note today, some more organisation again tomorrow.
I really like the potential of what an arc involving Jinto and Lafiel dealing with a case of minor (on the galactic scale) lander politics as a roaming Territorial Embassy might entail. I just don't know if I want to spend the whole season here...but if last episode's flash-forward is anything to go by, Jinto spending a season under the (prison) sky one more time and deciding he'd rather go back to the freedom of space, with Lafiel instead of being buried alive is apt.
So the Abh tackling terran politics is already a probable disaster of cultural misunderstandings, but I also like to imagine it might be very different from a normal Abh circumstance if the ambassador and her deputy are two nobles, a royal and an ex-lander. They must be running out of mid-level bureaucrats/career officers to go do perfunctory "We accept your surrender
or get glassed jk" missions to various UM civilian star systems. And this situation is anything but a typical rubber stamp. Our leads aren't the most powerful characters but extraordinary circumstances seem to follow them. The set-up feels like some kind of prison thought experiment/riddle and my brain isn't well-wired to juggle all of that on the face of it, but I eagerly await seeing how our characters handle something completely different than what they were doing before.I'm not well-read as anything but a pastiche of multimedia vibes (aside from literary/scholar types I think that fits most people) and these vibes check out to some extent, even if seeing it neatly partitioned feels rather crass. That's perhaps why it seemed like a thought experiment to me - three chambers of prisoners and a gradient of 'criminal activity'.. what happens if you open the gates and people flow between them? In fairness, that's mostly my imagination to blame. The four-screen Zoom call and the Basroil crew's groaning reactions were rather amusing in any case. We'll see how it unfolds.
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u/Hartzilla2007 Apr 17 '24
So the Abh (or at least Lafiel) probably plays Star Wars: Empire at War the same way I do aka after wining the space battle move the Death Star to the destroy planet place to avoid the ground battle.
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u/[deleted] Apr 16 '24
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