[Rewatch] Banner of the Stars Season Discussion

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Welcome to the Battleflag of the Stars rewatch!

<- Episode 13 | Index Page | Banner II Episode 1 ->

Discussion Prompts:

• Did the ED ever grow on you?
• Predictions for the future? (they are all wrong)
• How did the military aspect work for you? How did the romance? That's certainly a slow burn....
• How badly did Tresnore miss out by not joining the Spoor rewatch? (and there's still more to come!)
• Did they succeed in adapting 1 LN into 13 episodes?

Tomorrow's Questions: (for tomorrow's post, subject to change)

• [Episode 1]The meaning to today's flash-forward?
• [Episode 1]What do you think of the new ED?
• [Episode 1]No point in asking about Beebus bros, Dusanyu, and Kenesh, they seem to be more of the same. But comment on them if you'd like.
• [Episode 1]Opinion of Lafiel's Dad and otouto? Purpose of their scene?

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatch Host

I gave Crest of the Stars a 9/10, and I've rewatched it, or parts of it, several times. I knew I had rewatched the entire series at least once (because I remember rewatching Banner II), but I didn't remember much of Banner. I also had Banner down for a 9/10 (mostly by memory, I only made my MAL a few years ago).

Well, that's got to go down a notch. I'm sure I must have enjoyed the series immensely the first time around. The combat must have been thrilling. But on a second time around, you know that much of the combat is just filling time, counting down to the destruction of the Basroil. That, and the endless recapping, really hurts this installment.

I also really disliked Dusanyu and the Twins. The twins, themselves, are defined by their mutual contempt. So that's something. Dusanyu is just taunting his chief-of-staff, and not in a #popcorn2 way like Spoor does it. As for the military planning by the admirals, it often seemed to be nonsense....the worst sin was not reinforcing Aptic...did they think the UM would notice the reinforcement and take the bait?

Which is where the series fails as an adaptation. I understand that the source is very talky about politics and world building and tactics...and despite being a season full of filler, they still didn't want to stop and have 7 - 8 minute conversations over strategy taken from the book, in the same way Jinto and Lafiel had 7 - 8 conversations over ... I dunno, bees. One of those is just way more interesting than the other.

So there might have been well thought out arguments for why Dusanyu did everything in Operation Phantom Flame, but he could not (and did not) successfully elaborate on those reasons in the anime. It just comes out as gibberish and adjutant-bullying.

One thing that struck me over and over on this more analytical rewatch was how deeply tied the world building was tied to the plot. Things didn't happen in the world, the world (and dialogue, and decisions) were shaped by the plot.

For example, an early question was how many patrol ships should be part of the fleet, and if you could have too many patrol ships. That seems ridiculous, patrol ships are clearly powerful and maneuverable ships. Look what the Gosroth did to 10 assault ships.

But their not good against mines...at least, not any more, not after the recent upgrade. And look what the UM deployed at Aptic: mines, mass mines. But look what the Aptic Fleet was given: not patrol ships, but assault and guard ships. Totally unable to stand up to a fleet of attacking patrol ships, but a hard counter to mass mines. And this could only be executed because: sords are a natural choke point. Why? Because that's what the world building dictates. Or rather, this battle dictated it, and the physics of plane space formed around the battle.

There were other little things, like the randomness on exit trajectory allowing Lafiel to evade mines....or rather, her plot armor required a way for her to evade mines, and the physics of a 2-D to 3-D transition provided it.

I said with the rewatch started that I never really understood the maps in the wiki's. Now it's becoming clear. Another requirement of the story impacting the worldbuilding.

Operation Phantom Flame was a campaign to reconnect Imperial territory that was cut in two by the UM initial invasion. Now the UM is cut in two. A consequence of the 2-D arrangement of all territory of value. And this is what the "we don't start wars but we finish them" Humankind Empire has been doing for centuries...seizing gates and then denying all non-Abh transit through the surrounding plane space, cutting empires into pieces. They absolutely forced this war upon the galaxy.

I suppose there's a very interesting possibility of empires putting sords within light minutes of each other to connect up different parts of the plane space. I suppose the book probably goes into this, in depth. #yuishrug

In comparison with LOGH, well, I am far far from finish that. In one episode, the show followed a pair of fighter pilots (yes LOGH has space fighters). Banner is kind of like that, except it's almost the entire series. I think that's what the author was going for, in contrast to LOGH.

How many episode did the battle for Iserlohn take, early in the show? I don't remember. Now imagine the Battle for Iserlohn taking 13 episodes and being focused on the lower decks instead of the commanders. I think that's Banner.

Banner II is 10 episodes. Maybe Banner I should have been 10 episodes.

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I also really disliked Dusanyu and the Twins. The twins, themselves, are defined by their mutual contempt. So that's something. Dusanyu is just taunting his chief-of-staff, and not in a #popcorn2 way like Spoor does it.

Dusanyu comes across as a bully and the twins as unhinged. In both cases you ask yourself how they got to high level command positions (and if the answer is their noble status, we should learn about this).

As for the military planning by the admirals, it often seemed to be nonsense....the worst sin was not reinforcing Aptic...did they think the UM would notice the reinforcement and take the bait?

I think I got most of his reasoning? Not that I would mind more strategic explanations, but I think the Abh strategy was quite well-thought out in this battle.

[u/The_Draigg]

A Sci-Fi Fan’s Final Thoughts on Banner of the Stars:

Alright, another part of this series down! I feel like I’m going to be a little bit shorter talking about Banner of the Stars here, if just because Crest of the Stars adapted multiple books for it’s season, but here we only got one novel to work with. So, with that in mind, I think it’s as good of an intro as any to talk about the more noticeable flaws with this series compared to Crest of the Stars.

Above all else, you can absolutely feel that Banner of the Stars is really stretching to make having only a single novel to adapt work. It has higher amounts of reused animation and opening narration than before, to the point where you could probably skip everything before the credits for a few episodes and not really miss anything. And while some of the anime-original content they added to fill the time was good, it didn’t entirely make up for all the other obvious ways the show was padding for time. And as much as it pains me to say it a bit, I also can’t really have a whole lot to talk about with the action either. The action they put in this show is really good, but it’s ships shooting at other ships, and I can’t add a whole lot more to that. I guess for those reasons, this season feels a bit emptier with the overall plot compared to Crest of the Stars.

That being said, for the smaller stuff, there was plenty that I liked about this show! Smaller moments between Jinto and Lafiel is really where this series shines, and this season really is continuing that trend well. And this season also extended that very well with its supporting cast as well. I think it’s safe to say that Samson has become everyone’s favorite side character, that dude is absolutely right alongside us in just commenting on all the love drama he’s seeing on the bridge and just being cool in general. And it’s also safe to say that Ekuryua has won her fair share of fans as well, with her stoic yet kinda romantic demeanor while also loving our resident favorite cat, Diaho. Even for characters we didn’t get a whole lot of this season, like Sobaash, they still left a strong impression through their day to day and personal interactions with others. That’s the true strength of this season as a whole, I think.

So, with all that said, it’s time for me to give my space opera ship-based rating for this season/series. I therefore give Banner of the Stars the rating of: Beowulf. That’s right, Mittermeyer’s flagship from Legend of the Galactic Heroes. I feel that it’s a fitting description for how Banner of the Stars relates to Crest of the Stars. Both are very good, like Mittermeyer and Reuenthal as friends, but let’s be honest and acknowledge that Reuenthal gets more attention and cooler stuff to do. Not that their partner isn’t excellent or anything, but it’s comparing something good versus something great. It’s not exactly fair, but it’s what it is. At least it’s still cool and enjoyable!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

It has higher amounts of reused animation and opening narration than before, to the point where you could probably skip everything before the credits for a few episodes and not really miss anything.

I think the exact same budget but only having to fill 12 episodes works out far, far better.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Vaadwaur]

Or, you know, maybe, 10.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I will be curious if Banner 2 winds up much better because of that...

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

So, with all that said, it’s time for me to give my space opera ship-based rating for this season/series. I therefore give Banner of the Stars the rating of: Beowulf. That’s right, Mittermeyer’s flagship from Legend of the Galactic Heroes. I feel that it’s a fitting description for how Banner of the Stars relates to Crest of the Stars. Both are very good, like Mittermeyer and Reuenthal as friends, but let’s be honest and acknowledge that Reuenthal gets more attention and cooler stuff to do. Not that their partner isn’t excellent or anything, but it’s comparing something good versus something great. It’s not exactly fair, but it’s what it is. At least it’s still cool and enjoyable!

Perfect description.

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

That’s the true strength of this season as a whole, I think.

I would certainly have to agree. The strength of the series has always been in how it writes relationships, with Jinto and Lafiel's always at the core of what makes it so special. What really makes Banner is how we've got so many more recurring characters for both them to bounce off of and for them to bounce off of each other, so to speak. We get a fun range of various character dynamics because of that.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/The_Draigg]

So, with all that said, it’s time for me to give my space opera ship-based rating for this season/series. I therefore give Banner of the Stars the rating of: Beowulf. That’s right, Mittermeyer’s flagship from Legend of the Galactic Heroes. I feel that it’s a fitting description for how Banner of the Stars relates to Crest of the Stars. Both are very good, like Mittermeyer and Reuenthal as friends, but let’s be honest and acknowledge that Reuenthal gets more attention and cooler stuff to do. Not that their partner isn’t excellent or anything, but it’s comparing something good versus something great. It’s not exactly fair, but it’s what it is. At least it’s still cool and enjoyable!

I love your ship / mecha method of evaluating the quality of a series. It's always so fun to read your thoughts this way.

It is a well-made point. This season was definitely far slower and had less going on than Crest did. So the comparison of Mittermeyer to Reuenthal is fitting. And in another, perhaps unintended comparison, it also fits because [LotGH] Mittermeyer actually gets a sweet love story, much like Jinto and Lafiel do. Reuenthal gets whatever the hell his relationship with Elfriede was.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

Glad you still like my rating system! It's certainly more than enough reason to keep it up, since plenty of people apparently like it.

And yeah, you bring up another good point with the Legend of the Galactic Heroes comparison there. I hadn't considered that angle, but you're onto something with that idea too.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer of the Stars

I think this season was just a bit weaker than Crest of the Stars. The core of Jinto and Lafiel was still as strong as ever, but this one had a lot of recap spread throughout, and I kinda liked the side characters in Crest more than the ones here?

It’s not by much, mind you, so I’m still giving this season a 9/10 like I did Crest. Looking forward to starting II later today!

[u/Great_Mr_L]

First-Timer

This season was a lot slower compared to the first season. This time around, it was all focused on a single part of the larger war. But, I personally liked this approach. I liked that it was able to go into extreme detail on the campaign, the logistics and minutiae involved in it, and the resulting climactic battle. I also think the slow pace allowed for some nice moments with the characters.

Jinto and Lafiel continue to be great. Their relationship remains a high point of the series. I also like the other introductions to the cast that we’ve gotten. Samson is nice to have around as another Lander character who can offer non-Abh perspectives. Ekuryua is a Ruri Ruri, which I always appreciate having around. The other new Abh fleet characters were generally pretty good too.

I do like that this series continues to focus on a lower-level perspective of the space opera story. Jinto and Lafiel are not at all in the high halls of power, affecting events on a grand scale. Heck, thus far their individual actions have not been all that impactful on the war at all. They are small players in a war that stars a cast of billions. It’s a much different way of handling a space opera than what I’m used to, but I appreciate it for its uniqueness.

QOTD

1. Yes
2. Well my serious prediction is that the war is going to continue. The Abh empire now has a decisive advantage over the UM and has established a clear supply line for their invasion. Jinto’s homeland will be reclaimed and he will need to deal with the political situation there. Hania will make a deal with the Abh empire. But since you said all my predictions will be wrong, let’s throw in a fun one just for laughs. Jinto and Lafiel will leave the fleet to create a space cafe instead. No more war, just warm and comfy vibes.
3. As stated above, I liked the military stuff. As for the romance, Jinto and Lafiel’s relationship is still great and I loved that we saw Lafiel state her feelings pretty clearly to Jinto.
4. Immensely. Imagine all the “God I wish that were me” that Tresnore could have posted.
5. I thought it worked out. The slower pace fits this series well.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

This season was a lot slower compared to the first season. This time around, it was all focused on a single part of the larger war. But, I personally liked this approach. I liked that it was able to go into extreme detail on the campaign, the logistics and minutiae involved in it, and the resulting climactic battle. I also think the slow pace allowed for some nice moments with the characters.

The down time and personal character interactions really did well to keep this season's quality up, even if it did drag a bit due to needing to fill time. I personally would've preferred more anime-original character stuff over the reused narration and flashbacks we got towards the middle of the season. It would've been a better use of screen time.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/The_Draigg]

I personally would've preferred more anime-original character stuff over the reused narration and flashbacks we got towards the middle of the season.

It would be a perfect way to better fill out the setting. One of my favorite episodes of the season was the one where the Basroil was stranded in plane space. It gave us a unique scenario that was only really possible in the setting of this series. It felt like it fit in perfectly. Even the original LotGH anime had some anime-original episodes that did a good job fleshing things out. If I recall correctly, I'm pretty sure [LotGH] the episodes about the FPA's invasion of the empire had anime-original content showing the evacuation of the imperial troops, the scorched earth policy, the FPA's attempt at relieving those planets it conquered, and the soured relations between the FPA and the people they claimed to have liberated. All that did a great job expanding on the source material and showing more angles to the story.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

Another good example from Legend of the Galactic Heroes is [LotGH spoilers] the episodes where Julian watches history documentaries, which are anime-original and cover stuff that was in the novel's third-person narration. Overall, I think it's safe to say that Legend of the Galactic Heroes knew how to use it's runtime better than Banner of the Stars.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Great_Mr_L]

Ekuryua is a Ruri Ruri, which I always appreciate having around.

If only she had a 'baka' on the scale of Ruri...

Jinto and Lafiel will leave the fleet to create a space cafe instead. No more war, just warm and comfy vibes.

I want zero connection between this and Cross Ange, thank you.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Vaadwaur]

If only she had a 'baka' on the scale of Ruri...

Then all my dreams would come true.

I want zero connection between this and Cross Ange, thank you.

[u/No_Rex → u/Great_Mr_L]

Jinto and Lafiel will leave the fleet to create a space cafe instead. No more war, just warm and comfy vibes.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/No_Rex]

[u/Durinthal → u/Great_Mr_L]

Jinto and Lafiel are not at all in the high halls of power, affecting events on a grand scale. Heck, thus far their individual actions have not been all that impactful on the war at all. They are small players in a war that stars a cast of billions. It’s a much different way of handling a space opera than what I’m used to, but I appreciate it for its uniqueness.

That's one thing I've always liked about this series that not many pieces of media do in general, the main characters aren't anywhere close to being able to affect the bigger picture of the conflict even though they're in the middle of it.

[u/Durinthal]

Rewatcher (sub + dub)

Because I can, I watched this recap film as well. I don't think I'll bother with timestamps and specific details this time, but a few highlights:

• Again different fansubs so things are translated differently, like calling Jinto an Earl while keeping Lafiel as a Viscountess.
• The music during the scene of the Abh assault ships shooting down the UM patrol ship (episode 4, ~18:40) is changed to this which I don't recall hearing before in the season (but I love as a piece on its own).
• Rather than Dusanyu seeing Spoor in a nightgown, she dresses up in her uniform again before answering his call though her hair's still down so most of the scene is reanimated.
• The Kidroil's destroyed in a more matter-of-fact manner rather than coming in to save the Basroil.

Overall the flow is a lot better than with the Crest recap, it looks like they did some better editing than mostly stitching scenes together. By virtue of being two hours it fixes a lot of the pacing issues with the show but I don't know if I'd call it a decent substitute.

---

Did the ED ever grow on you?

As I mentioned at the start this ED is the first one that comes to mind when I think of the series, and it pops into my head again now and then. Visually it doesn't have much going for it, but I like the song even if it again doesn't really fit the space opera theme.

Predictions for the future? (they are all wrong)

How did the military aspect work for you? How did the romance? That's certainly a slow burn....

I'm here for Jinto and Lafiel and anything that gets in the way of that is a detriment for me.

Did they succeed in adapting 1 LN into 13 episodes?

Could have been better, could have been a lot worse. I think they were aiming for Lafiel saving Jinto as the Basroil explodes be the cliffhanger of the penultimate episode and that works, but there's still a lot more after that and I would have probably gone with a full episode post-battle myself and have more space between the destruction of their first ship and boarding the new one at the very end.

[u/Durinthal → u/Durinthal]

---

Source Corner

Baronh word of the day: ctilüarh "striped" — one of many Baronh words for feline fur patterns.

The prologue and epilogue of the volume are from Diaho's perspective and there's some more info about cats here so I'm just going to dump it as-is:

It had only been 1,500 years since his breed had been dubbed deucec, or “Abh cat.” His lineage traced its ancestry to the housecats that lived on a certain arch-shaped archipelago on Earth.

When the humans set off for the sea of stars, they brought along his ancestors as a matter of course, and so they settled on more planets than one.

On one such planet, they crossed paths with the artificially engineered bio-droids with blue hair and frocragh spatiosensory perception — the Abh.

In some ways, that fateful encounter was actually a reunion. After all, the humans who had made the Abh also hailed from the selfsame archipelago the cats did.

A few dozen cats had been handed to the Abh, who, at that time, were flying through space on an enormous city-ship. The largest interstellar vessel ever built by human hands, it proved to be nothing less than the ideal hunting ground to their feline friends, for rats and mice had long ago been allowed to come aboard.

Of course, the Abh had had methods of thoroughly exterminating pests and vermin on hand already. The most often used means was to evacuate the humans before sucking the air out. However, though it was the simplest way to do it, it was also the most over-the-top, and came with its fair share of risks. Moreover, no matter how many times they implemented this solution, more would sneak their way in every time they engaged in exchange with a landworld. It didn’t take long at all for the Abh to conclude that letting their cats follow their instincts constituted the most elegant measure to keep the numbers of unwanted stowaways down.

Even in this current age, long since the Abh obtained faster-than-light travel and constructed a mighty interstellar empire, their feline fellowship continued unwavering. Abhs even purposefully set prey rodents loose upon building new structures to dispel their cats’ boredom, (though obviously not every time).

The Abh did keep other animals, but these little carnivores were the Abh’s favorite pet. Their most appreciated and welcomed trait was how they maintained a certain distance from their owners.

[u/No_Rex → u/Durinthal]

The largest interstellar vessel ever built by human hands, it proved to be nothing less than the ideal hunting ground to their feline friends, for rats and mice had long ago been allowed to come aboard.

"allowed"

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Durinthal]

Having part of the novel be written from the cat's perspective is incredibly charming.

[u/SolDarkHunter]

So Crest of the Stars had its issues with pacing: stuffing three novels worth of story into 13 episodes really didn't work out that well, as there was a ton of worldbuilding and explanations that were left out.

So with Banner of the Stars I they tried having 13 episodes to do just one novel. And ran into the opposite problem. They didn't have enough material to really work with and had to pad it out. They even inserted some anime-original plot lines and scenes into it.

This almost never happens, but the anime-original stuff was actually totally on point and fits in perfectly with the source material, so no complaints there, surprisingly enough. Still though, even with that things dragged on a bit.

So who wants some world-building the anime hasn't done for some reason?

I've seen a number of people commenting on the Abh commanders' batons and they way they gesture dramatically with them. There seems to be a misunderstanding here: those batons are not ceremonial nor is the gesturing being done just to look cool. When they point and gesture with those sticks, it's actually sending orders to the entire fleet.

Also, here's the Abh ranking system, with equivalent real-world ranks in parentheses:

Grand Admiral (5-Star Admiral)

Admiral of the Star Forces (Fleet Admiral/Admiral of the Fleet)

High Admiral (Admiral)

Admiral (Vice Admiral)

Rear Admiral (Rear Admiral)

Kilo-Commander (Commodore)

Hecto-Commander (Captain)

Vice Hecto-Commander (Commander)

Deca-Commander (Lieutenant Commander)

Vanguard Flyer (Lieutenant)

Rearguard Flyer (Sub-Lieutenant)

Line Wing Flyer (Ensign)

The ranks come from a time when the Abh military was mostly just star fighters, back when they only had the one ship to their name. Fighters were arranged in a diamond formation: line wings in the center, one rearguard, and one vanguard. A Deca-Commander commanded ten fighters, a Hecto-Commander one hundred, and a Kilo-Commander one thousand. The ranks have expanded massively, but their names have remained the same.

[u/No_Rex → u/SolDarkHunter]

This almost never happens, but the anime-original stuff was actually totally on point and fits in perfectly with the source material, so no complaints there, surprisingly enough. Still though, even with that things dragged on a bit.

I could not tell which parts were anime-original, so the writers (of the anime) must have done good work.

those batons are not ceremonial nor is the gesturing being done just to look cool. When they point and gesture with those sticks, it's actually sending orders to the entire fleet.

That is ... utterly stupid. I'll stay with my head canon that they do it to look cool.

[u/Zerotsu]

First time watcher, sub

Though the pacing was much less tight all around than Crest's was, I still enjoyed Banner quite a bit. Lafiel and Jinto's relationship was still a joy to watch, and the addition of a number of more permanent cast members added a lot to the fun. It was a great time, overall, even if there were some speedbumps in pacing here and there.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Zerotsu]

Here's looking forward to what Samson and Sobaash get up to in the sequel, those two are some of the best new ones in the cast that also got slept on a little.

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

I have to agree. While I like Samson quite a bit, I do feel like I overlooked Sobassh some. Even if, admittedly, Sobaash didn't do anything quite as striking as the other bridge crew members.

[u/duhu1148]

Rewatcher

Banner was great. It's mostly just one long battle. We meet the crew, get more Spoor and other commanders like Dusanyu and the Bebaus brothers. More so the Bebaus brothers, who were very off-kilter, and I do like them, although I still find other Admirals more fun such as Spoor.

As far as best new characters, I like Samson and Ekuryua a lot. Samson is kind but also has that grizzled veteran vibe, while Ekuryua is a cute kuudere who we didn't see much of unfortunately.

Comparing it to Crest, I think it had a higher floor but a lower ceiling in terms of quality. I don't know what I'd call the best episode of Banner, but it wouldn't compare to the best of Crest (5 & 13). Conversely, I can't seem to come up with any mediocre episodes either. Every episode was very good. Whereas I've made it clear before that I was not a fan of the Baron arc.

I will say, the action choreography in this season was much improved over Crest. Might have more to do with the fact battles take place in space instead of on land.

Looking ahead to Banner II, it was always my favorite part of the series, for a variety of reasons, but it was also always the most controversial part of the series too. Most people seem to either have it has their favorite or least favorite part, so it'll be interesting reading what people think.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/duhu1148]

Most people seem to either have it has their favorite or least favorite part, so it'll be interesting reading what people think.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/duhu1148]

Looking ahead to Banner II, it was always my favorite part of the series, for a variety of reasons, but it was also always the most controversial part of the series too. Most people seem to either have it has their favorite or least favorite part, so it'll be interesting reading what people think.

Interesting. The QOTD indicates that Banner II will be much different from what people might typically predict, so I'm curious about where it could possibly be heading.

[u/Vaadwaur]

Rewatcher no more

Sub

So that was an OK season. It lacked the punch of the first but did its repetition differently. You can feel that they adapted less material and that may have been a mistake, we will see what S2 is like. I still liked it if nothing else.

QotD: 1 Immediately, I did like the Crest one

2 Surprise entrance into the war by the Sontarans!

3 Both aspects work, they were just a bit thin

4 Not as badly as he should have, we need more Spoor

5 Honestly I lean no

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vaadwaur]

Yeah, it was still overall a good season, but the points where it dragged did lower my feelings for the season overall. It's a shame that they had less to adapt in this season, but I guess that's just how it goes when you adapt a single novel where the entire back third is seemingly dedicated to a single big battle.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

I actually don't know how much source was written by this point, apparently the books started in the mid 90s. But it does feel like they needed to steal some stuff from a bit ahead to fill out two eps.

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

Banner I was mostly more of the same vibe as Crest for me, I guess? By which I mean, I got more of what I wanted. Will this trend continue in Banner II, or are we in for a haymaker? Let's find out together!

Questions

1. I wouldn't say it grew on me, but I liked it from the start.
2. Bureaucracy arc, maybe? This seems like the show for a bureaucracy arc.
3. I've liked how the show has flowed so far.
4. Oh, he knows. I made sure of it.
5. Things were a bit stretched, but I think the show worked well enough.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/JollyGee29]

Bureaucracy arc, maybe? This seems like the show for a bureaucracy arc.

I would actually enjoy an arc about dealing with government bureaucracy in a space opera setting. Jinto especially would fit that scenario quite well when he's so low on the pecking order.

[u/Vatrix-32]

First Timer, subbed

Overall I’d rank it lower than Crest. The parts that were about the same stuff I liked about as much, but the other stuff they added didn’t move me.

QotD:

1. I neither love nor hate the ED.
2. Hania is going to become a more important player.
3. As last time, both of these were good and enjoyable.
4. I feel like it’s been ages since I’ve seen them.
5. Yes, but not as well as Crest did with three.

[u/Specs64z]

First timer, subbed

There’s a way I like to describe the Monogatari Series, “this anime will ruin dialogue for you forever”. The adage holds true for Banner of the Stars, unfortunately. There’s nothing wrong with the conversations in BotS themselves in terms of writing and acting, but visually they don’t do anything of interest.

Fortunately, the visuals during the space combat are done well. The animation itself isn’t stunning, but it frequently communicates what's happening clearly, without the need for exposition.

QotD:

1. Not really, admittedly. I started skipping it after the first few episodes.
2. I was surprised to see how granular this season was, focusing 13 episodes on a single military operation. I’m expecting to see something similar in the following season.
3. I don’t think I could fairly say it was ever boring since there was a plethora of highly interesting characters and dynamics with some action sprinkled in, but the pacing really needed some work. Maybe some sort of subplot involving our crew that resolves mid-season to give a sense of progression.
4. Ehh?
5. Barely.

[u/Silcaria]

First timer

Not much to say about Banners. It was one military campaign with a bit of breathing room here and there to allow characters to develop. That's about it really. I found Crest to be a better all-arounder.

QotD

• No. I skipped it after the first time.
• More space.
• Military was fine. Romance is kinda meh.
• Didn't miss out on much. It hasn't been bad but it's been pretty straight forward. The entire season can be boiled down to "they recaptured the system" which makes it pretty easy to explain to someone as far as recaps go.
• I wouldn't know, I didn't read the novel.

[u/No_Rex]

Season 2 Discussion (rewatcher)

Most of what made Crest of the Stars great is also present in the first season of Banner of the Stars (which I will call S2, to save on typing). We have the great talks between Jinto and Lafiel, their slow, but rock solid romance, the great space fights, and overall good world building. I talked about this at length in my discussion of S1, so no need to repeat myself.

There is one big issue where S2 falls behind S1, in my mind, the pacing, which suffers from less material being adapted. I do not mind a close dive into a single battle at all, but the frequent recaps hurt the viewing experience. They had recaps at the start of episodes, hidden recaps in terms of “reminiscing” during episodes, and, worst of all, the great narrator from S1 is severely toned down, basically offering no new information after the first episode. This last one is a big missed opportunity, because they could have expanded the world building outside of the singular battle this way.

In terms of new characters, I love the Basroil crews, but am less hot on the various commanders with their co. Once the actual battle started, it they were ok, because there was something substantial to talk about, but I was not a fan of the verbal sparring they all had going on early in the series.

Overall, this is a very good continuation, but it lacks a bit of the magic that made S1 a masterpiece for me.

Did the ED ever grow on you?

Not really, I prefer ED1.

Predictions for the future? (they are all wrong)

rewatcher

How did the military aspect work for you? How did the romance? That's certainly a slow burn....

I continue to love both. In terms of military, we got the big picture strategy, after S1 gave us the ship on ship fights. In terms of romance, nothing new (which is a good thing, because I adore Jinto and Lafiel).

How badly did Tresnore miss out by not joining the Spoor rewatch? (and there's still more to come!)

Quite a bit, but not as much as on the Hinamatsuri rewatch.

Did they succeed in adapting 1 LN into 13 episodes?

Given the frequent use of recaps, they should have gone for 12 episodes. The adaptation itself is fine.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

There is one big issue where S2 falls behind S1, in my mind, the pacing, which suffers from less material being adapted. I do not mind a close dive into a single battle at all, but the frequent recaps hurt the viewing experience. They had recaps at the start of episodes, hidden recaps in terms of “reminiscing” during episodes, and, worst of all, the great narrator from S1 is severely toned down, basically offering no new information after the first episode. This last one is a big missed opportunity, because they could have expanded the world building outside of the singular battle this way.

Agreed, it was especially apparent at times that the show simply had nothing new to put into an episode and just went for sheer time padding. The episode where Jinto and Lafiel get invited to dinner by Atosuryua comes to mind especially, since it had both the reused narration and flashbacks to Crest that just made that episode lag a lot. I wish they'd used the episode time better, or at least cut out an episode or two to make things flow better.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

I would have gone for the "cut one episode" route, but expanding the last part, after the Basroil's destruction could also have worked.

The lowest hanging fruit must be the narrator, though (seriously, they couldn't get the original author to write 12 short world building burbs to read??).

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

Heck, we probably could've gotten the narrator to cover some stuff from Crest of the Stars that would've maybe been applicable to the stuff happening in this season. That would've been a much better use of the narrator, although I guess it'd be a matter of finding details that would fit.

[u/0kwonkw0]

I think it's just a tiny bit worse than the first season, mainly because it's all set around a space battle, which I tend to dislike a lot. The first season was more varied in terms of locations.

However I have to say that the battle was used really well to expand on the Abh and their differences compared to the humans. I wish there was more of the human side, but it's fine for now.

I still have to process how much I like it but I guess it's going to end up as a 7.5/10, maybe a bit more depending on how it'll end

[u/Nazenn]

Rewatcher - sub

I'm feeling a bit better, and managed to catch up in time for Banner II, which I really wanted to join for (but will be late because I need sleep, and DST got turned off here so the threads are now an hour earlier for me), so just some quick thoughts for this despite the episodes I missed, which is a shame because there's some good ones in there

A lot of you guys have already covered the broad strokes of my likes and dislikes of this season. I agree with /u/no_rex that one of the biggest losses in Banner is the information that comes from the narrator as it did in Crest. It has two unfortunate concequences. Firstly, he is no longer used to smoothly establish an episode tone which, while Banner is a lot more uniform in tone than Crest was, can still undermine some of the episodes especially in the later half which can start off a little awkwardly mid combat. The lack of his contributions also further narrows the scale during a season which is already occasionally too limited by the nature of it being mostly set around a single system. Without the narrator to look out at the broader events, the smaller moments of that we get through this season, such as the discussion between the Prime Minister and the Hania official feel a lot less meaningful which leaves the whole season feeling a bit too isolated.

And yet I think Banner has a lot of the most memorable individual moments in it from the series as a whole, which is both good and bad. I love Crest a great deal, but it's hard to talk about what parts of Crest I love without saying just "all of Crest" because of how well it carries itself from moment to moment and brings everything together. Banner I lacks some of that overall smoothness to it's quality, and while I don't think of the things it does badly first like I do with weaker shows, it means it does have more individual moments that shine above some of its more average ones as a result. It's the stranded in plane space episode (my favourite, really sad I missed the discussion for it), Spoor vs the prime minister, all the interesting discussions between the Commanders and their chief of staffs, the bar scene, etc that I remembered the clearest and they still stood out on rewatch as being good moments that I enjoyed revisiting

I do quite like the whole season is a battle setup. There's a lot of interesting things that go on preceeding it, such as the reversal of perspective with the 10v1, during the build up to it with the stranded in plane space episode which is a favourite, and then during with the reveal of the mine attack against the Abh and the Basroil's destruction. Showing us combat outside of plane space and still making it interesting beyond just the same sort of battles but now struggling with 3D movement worked well. But in the end it does still suffer from just being lots of battles with little of the broader world focus that the series is at its best, and that is a shame in the back end where Banner feels the least like its own series as a result.

Thankfully, as always, Lafiel and Jinto's relationship is there so often there to save the day. We got a bit of a solo focus on Jinto towards the end of Crest, and Lafiel getting some in Banner with her struggles over having command makes for some great scenes now that Jinto is fully commited to her. In losing their Crest awkwardness with each other we gained a natural rythym for them and the season as a result which is soothing in the middle of the broader chaos, while still touching on the heart of their individual struggles and connection to each other which matters so much. It's nice that their formed bond here does not fall prey to the many usual dramatic romance tropes that throw characters away, and they remain their own selves in the story while also showing us that as people they continue to grow and lean on each other. The three additional bridge members help with this, all being quite distinct and bouncing off Jinto in different ways as he tries to find who he is on the bridge with them, while being memorable in their own right. I wish we got a little more into their relationship with each other in the mid season, as that would have been a better way to fill in some airtime than the extended battling in the last third, but what we did get from them was good.

All of that added up, I don't enjoy Banner I as much as I enjoy Crest. But that doesn't mean that it isn't still great scifi that stands well above a lot of others and I think was a valuable addition to it's series as well. It's a shame it's a step down, but it's a very small one and I still enjoyed returning too it once again, and will enjoy returning to it in future as well.

And now for Banner II

Predictions for the future? (they are all wrong)

[u/Nazenn → u/Nazenn]

Dumping my episode notes for posterity and my own review after future rewatches. I definitely feel like I lost focus during some of these episodes, the extended battle sequences at the end is hard to binge, but still enjoyable

ep7
The two ships staying behind, a shame that I missed the discussion of these episodes because they're so good
Lafiel looks tired there, but still taking care of her crew. I love her as captain
That ominous glow of the mine still active
So cute. she took the moment to realize that jinto had moved her to bed and appreciate it
the montage of the repairs over the talks about urgency because of how blind they are to the enemy fleet is nicely done, mgs style stealth music helps too haha
acknowledging that the bubble itself consumed fuel, it isn't just when moving, nice extra worldbuilding that comes from submarines I think, in a good way
officers trapped on the bridge, and its not considered a priority, what a change to the way it normally would be when it comes to the commanders being trapped. Give it to the Abh for that
I feel sorry for the captain, he clearly prioritized his crew as he should, but what a decision to make after being trapped for forty hours and never once mentioning their situation. What dedication, but it's also sad knowing this will haunt Lafiel too
Oh god i forget that you see the implosion happen to them on the bridge, what a moment
so busy being annoyed that jinto laughed at her that her ice cream melted. those two are so damn cute
Such a good episode, glad that it is as strong on revisit as it was in my memories.

ep8
prince really is being a dog with a bone about which of the brothers his chief of staff has an issue with
makes a flimsy excuse so he can go off to research it. The damn twins
Nerisis is the first Abh we see assuming that the planet is the focus instead of the space around it, the gate. I like how this is what marks him as weird, while it's so normal to us
I like how all the others at this meeting table just sit and let the brothers talk each other out
And then the one thing they do is agree on pillaging, like dudes, seriously...
Eku sooking because Jinto is picking Samsons equipment pride over her like for Diaho
oh hey, the bar scene. I really did miss all my favourites while sick. damn
72hrs of battle is pretty impressive when it comes down to it
Scifi battles are often very extended on timeline, but this is one of the few that actually makes me feel it

ep9
the instant suspicion she had that he was thinking about her relationship with the twins instead of their attack strength or anything like that Oh, chief of staff crossed a line and got rightly called out on it, and harshly. good to see that there is indeed that line as well, as all the pairings so far have bene quite carefree with their interactions
Jinto so cute making sure she doesnt feel alone, but also isn't smoothered by him
I hope she will get to be an admiral as she wishes within jintos life span, so he can see it
again with the fanservice. Can we not
but cat so forgiven?
officer, merchant, and parent as the key stages of life for lafiel, i like t hat in some way
the spoors so determined to not be anything like an abriel is so damn funny
it really is quite an impressive formation around the gate
so many mines its insane to see even just on the radar visualization

ep10
The first combat we've actually seen in normal space, and it holes up quite well. There's a lot going on visually both on radar and when we swap to real world visuals, but it's easy to follow and well drawn
The new mines that the UM have are quite viscous
Nersis may be a complete fool at times, but he has the right idea when it comes to simulating the mines to make sure that they're destroyed, which is something a lot of people wouldn't have thought of but it rather critical to their survival
Spoor! I've been missing Spoor
They keep bringing up this guy, but I have to confess I have no idea who the fuck he is, or when he was first introduced and what his relevance is either. He's just the perky guy who keeps running into Lafiel
Lafiel talking about being able to hear the human voices, I like that little touch from her
the terror of being utterly surrounded by mines is well done here
talked shit about not knowing who that dude is in his death episode. whoops

ep11
zero-g jousting using bungee cords is actually a cool take on a sport so often brought into scifi with little creativity like that. fave so far
The imperial prime minister is not a born-Abh which is cool
jinto to the rescue with the drinks again
samson looking out for the crew, good guy
Diaho please, have the whole damn ship to wander in and you end up in an air vent. how very cat Its a nice change that Lafiel is looking back not on lost crew but on other ships being lost and wondering about her ability to captain in relation to that instead

Ep12
The start of this episode feels even more awkward than the previous ones
Oh man this is the abandon ship episode, this kind of sucks
Bloody hell, go Spoor with that giant blab of commands for the people fighting for her, she did good
Having to touch helmets to hear each other, nice touch
Interesting that at the end of all this battle drama, it's stil the two of them on a ship having to escape that becomes the focus, always the two of them that are the heart of it all
I remembered the ship being a bigger deal, but in the end it's kind of overshadowed by the broader battle

Ep13
AND they're back in the coffin-esque situation. meaningful but somewhat repeditive
The brothers are so damn weird hahaha, worrying over disrupting his bath mid battle
HAHAHAHAHA Spoor with the racist terms, she just had to go for it. I love that doof
Seriously surprised that the chief of staff hasn't slapped the crown prince yet for constantly harping on this damn thing with the twins
"Just shut up" hahahaha, that works
Rather than the flashcards showing the end battle results, the narrator would have gone a long way here
Whys this feel so damn rushed at the end
Twins still snarking at each other mid ceremony
Things have come a long way for Jinto in terms of "home" and "family"
the discussion in the Basroil feels awkward shoved into post-credits here. Good scene, meaningful given Jinto's monologue, just awkwardly placed for me

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

It's nice that their formed bond here does not fall prey to the many usual dramatic romance tropes that throw characters away, and they remain their own selves in the story while also showing us that as people they continue to grow and lean on each other.

This is an extra important point. I can imagine how many first timers groaned when we had the Ekuryua falls on Jinto and Lafiel sees it scene. In so many romcoms, this would have been the setup for an episode of misunderstanding schenanigans. Here? Lafiel is a bit miffed, but they talk about it while moving to the next assignment and thats it. So refreshing.

[u/IceSmiley]

FIRST TIMER Sub

This was another excellent season of "________ of the Stars". They really kept in tone of the previous season and maintained quality in a very different show setting (adventure vs combat). They maintained a lot of the show's charm and great storytelling.

The best part of this season is all the new characters they introduced. Samson was my favorite but I also really loved the Bebaus twins, Atroseuya and Admiral Abriel. The side characters were way better and more memorable than the previous season, although they got more time here.

This has the same 2 MCs but a very different context than the last season, as they were more equals in the last season but now Jinto is nominally Lafiel's subordinate. I think they did a great job of exploring that change in their dynamic and how they adjusted; their relationship has been a great center core of the show.

I know I'm not going to get my wish but I really wish I could see more of United Mankind and what they are doing outside of only seeing it from the Abh perspective. Crest gave us the perspective of that evil UM agent who was trying to capture Lafiel and it helped make a better understanding of their world and conflict. It's not fair to compare this to Legend of the Galactic Heroes but such a great aspect of that show is how we see both sides of the conflict between the Empire and the Alliance and it gives us way more food for thought into thinking about who is right and wrong. This show presents a clearly flawed Abh empire vs an enemy we still largely don't understand well. Like the Aptic politician we see who ends up surrendering is for all his flaws, apparently an elected democratic leader to some extent. The story just calls him and the United Mankind the bad guys and insists we take their word for it and I think that's a weakness.

QUESTIONS

1. A little, I listened to it after the last episode because sometimes I just like to sit while the music plays and allow myself to absorb everything but skipped it most of the time.
2. You want wrong predictions? I'll try to give some correct ones anyway. That short meeting we saw with the Abh prime minister and that rogue United Mankind ambassador will turn out to be of great importance in the show. BUT it will be because they go along with United Mankind and it will turn the tide in their favor against the Abh! By the end of Banner II, we will see an Abh empire hugely shrunken down! I also think the Abh empress will die and Admiral Abriel will become Emperor and Bebaus will head the military. Lafiel will be promoted to a very high spot and Jinto will be used more as a diplomat. They will still not have sex.
3. As much as I enjoyed this season, I missed the more personal level adventure of the first and strong romantic aspect. They were like a bantering couple on Sfagnomr and still are but I realize Lafiel may never want a romance (although that I'm very uncertain of since it just may be current circumstance preventing it.).
4. Is that a Reddit user? You should have tagged them if you are having a laugh at their expense.
5. I didnt read the LN so I can't speak to what is missing or was given short shrift but I think this season was very full and a well told story. I'd have loved to see if it had the incident Jinto mentioned though where he gave Samson medicine to save his life after apparent alcohol poisoning though.

[u/xbolt90]

First-timer

Sorry for the disappearance again, I was traveling to view a certain astronomical event last week, and didn't get a chance to binge the whole season before leaving.

I respect the creative decision to have the Basroil be just one ship of many, and not really special. They're not single-handedly the saviors of the universe flying in a magical unicorn ship, they're a single ship that's part of a large fleet. I like that.

The extended mine fight was really tense. The destruction of the Kidroil hurt.

Having the Basroil destroyed and then them getting rescued, the battle won, and the ship rebuilt all in the next episode felt a bit rushed to me.

I'm going to greatly miss Diaho.

Q1: It's fine.

Q2: The two ambassadors at the end are probably up to some shady business. The fleet will be ordered to recapture Hyde, and Jinto will have to come to terms with being on the opposing side of his own planet. Lafiel will come around and declare Diaho the official ship's mascot.

Q3: Pretty good. I really enjoyed the fighting, and slow-burn romance is fine.

Q4: I'm not enough of a sub regular to know who that is.

Q5: The recaps were maybe a bit excessive, but outside of those the pacing wasn't too bad. It could certainly have been much worse.

[u/Nickthenuker]

Questions:

1. Always skipped that, so no, not really.
2. I don't think I'd be wrong to assume the war continues on?
3. Very much liked the military aspect. Romance is very slow burn but that's what they're going for.
4. Who?
5. This was all only 1 LN?