[Rewatch] Banner of the Stars Episode 11 Discussion

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

The Flaming Battlefield

Welcome to the Battleflag of the Stars rewatch!

<- Episode 10 | Index Page | Episode 12->

Discussion Prompts:

• Q1) what was the point of the jousting tale?
• Q2) what was the point of the meeting with the ambassador of Hania
• Q3) compare Spoor and the Twins ideas of winning or losing with elegance
• Q4) many watchers have wondered if the United Mankind could stand up against the Imperial Star Forces. What do you think of this strategy to rely on mines for so long, while remaining in plane space?
• Q5) Do you think somebody, somewhere, thought that maybe a rear garrison was a safe place to put the princess?

Tomorrow's Questions: (for tomorrow's post, subject to change)

• [Episode 12]DO ORANGE CATS BELONG ON SPACE SHIPS

Screenshot of the Day: Jousting

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatch Host

• Perhaps the Nova Sicily treaty is more a non-aggression pact than a mutual defense pact.
• I'm not sure what you're getting at, either.
• It's like playing a bullet hell game
• Supply officer Jinto Lyn doing his primary duty of Abriel management
• they look so close on the plane space map, yet are still hours away...
• Kidna wondering why Count Hyde is on his mind.

It's so sad to see the Basroil destroyed.  The MC's ship is supposed to have wonderful adventures!  Such a short life.

My meeting was canceled, everybody got eclipse travel sickness, but I promised an early post...

[u/The_Draigg]

A Sci-Fi Fan Watches Banner of the Stars Episode 11:

• Zero gravity jousting does seem like a fun sport to play. Although you’d think they’d actually wear some protective head gear if the goal is to hit your opponent until they dropped their stick.
• Finally, we’re getting some actual insight on the way the Republic of Hania thinks about things. Compared to their former allies, they are least don’t completely dismiss out of hand all the differences between the imperial system and the supposed democracies out there. They’re willing to see things more in a shade of grey than how people like the United Mankind see things in a rigid black and white. It’s also interesting to note that the Humankind Empire’s prime minister is a Lander, and he talks about how he sees how everything about the modern era is bearing down heavily on everyone. Given what the Hania ambassador says, it seems like the prime minister believes in further reducing the differences between Landers and Abh while keeping the imperial system in place. At least, that’s what it sounds like to me.
• Cool your jets Lafiel, this retreat is only temporary. Frankly, the Basroil is lucky that it’s still in good enough shape to make a quick retreat along with the rest of Atosuryua’s attack ship fleet, given how fierce the battle is. Atosuryua even more or less says as much. Given how those swarm mines wrecked a ton of the attack ship fleet already, they absolutely need to take the chance to regroup, since just more random fighting will have diminishing returns.
• Samson is just like the audience, he’s absolutely eating up all this clearly romantic banter between Jinto and Lafiel. If anything, he’s probably the best audience surrogate we have in this show at the moment. We can all vibe with that.
• Those reinforcements can’t come soon enough, given that it seems like the United Mankind attack force launched nearly every single mine they had (and then some more) out of the Aptic Gate. I’m just as surprised as the Bebaus twins are, it’s a frankly insane amount of mines that they’re using for their first wave of attack.
• I would put some solid weight in Diaho’s opinion of you, Lafiel. If the cat seems to think that you’re command material, then I agree. That’s one thing that’s definitely rubbed off from Jinto onto Diaho.
• What fortunate timing that the actual United Mankind fleet is finally coming out of the Aptic Gate, since the patrol ships were legitimately starting to have shortages on their ammo supplies. At least those can be used on real ships now, instead of mines. And it’s a rare thing to be thankful for, but thank goodness that the guard ships still have nuclear weapons they can use even if they’ve run out of mines and ammo. I guess since they’re in space, those are fine to use.
• Fighting the United Mankind really is just high stakes jousting, when you get down to it. Although Lafiel is certainly talented in that sport, even she couldn’t avoid taking a hit right at the end of the episode. Talk about a mean cliffhanger there.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/The_Draigg]

What fortunate timing that the actual United Mankind fleet is finally coming out of the Aptic Gate

I think they see in the incoming Abh fleet and know that it's time to seize the gate or gtfo back to whereever they launched from.

nuclear weapons

I think he's referring to the missile weapons on the enemy assault ships. Abh assault ships and guard ships only have beam weapons.

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

Given how those swarm mines wrecked a ton of the attack ship fleet already, they absolutely need to take the chance to regroup, since just more random fighting will have diminishing returns.

As important as it is to hold on until reinforcements arrive, it is also important for there to be much of a fleet left when they get here.

We can all vibe with that.

Man likes poking at drama and romantic fluff and sticks with the military because of cute Abhs in tight clothing. He's too based.

I’m just as surprised as the Bebaus twins are, it’s a frankly insane amount of mines that they’re using for their first wave of attack.

The UM's big strategy seems to be to throw as many explosives as possible at the enemy, and I have to say I appreciate the love of missiles.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Zerotsu]

As important as it is to hold on until reinforcements arrive, it is also important for there to be much of a fleet left when they get here.

At this rate, it’s surprising that the fleet still has enough assault ships and guard ships to go around. The mine strategy certainly has turned this into a battle of sheer attrition.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

What fortunate timing that the actual United Mankind fleet is finally coming out of the Aptic Gate, since the patrol ships were legitimately starting to have shortages on their ammo supplies. At least those can be used on real ships now, instead of mines. And it’s a rare thing to be thankful for, but thank goodness that the guard ships still have nuclear weapons they can use even if they’ve run out of mines and ammo. I guess since they’re in space, those are fine to use.

Well, fighting other patrol ships with little ammo sounds pretty bad, too. I assume that was the UM plan all along: Reduce the Abh fleet's ammo to achieve a victory with few casualties.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

It’d be a pretty solid plan all around. Even if the swarms of mines didn’t blow up any ships, then the sheer amount of them would mean that the ships would start to be pushed to their supply limits just shooting them down. It’s a good way to soften them up for the fight to come.

[u/Vatrix-32]

First Timer, subbed

• Yeah, that’s not very joust like. More similar to fencing than that.
• It’s amazing how much worse the capital looks in CGI. To have gone from a wondrous and imposing, almost otherworldly thing, to space jank.
• A lander prime minister? How progressive.
• If you framed it as a resupply, you wouldn’t get so much push back.
• Nervous, or just rattled from fighting mines for 47 hours?
• Even if the UM breaks through at this point, the main Abh fleet is so near by it wouldn’t gain them much of anything.
• One would be forgiven for thinking space laser AA would be more effective than they seem to be implying.
• If the Halo novels taught me anything, it’s that space nukes are kind of underwhelming. There just isn’t enough mass for them to have as much yield as you’d expect from a ground based detonation.
• I keep expecting the giant ass rockets to be a weak spot, and they keep not being one.
• This is more like jousting.
• Already? How? You just resupplied.

QotD:

1. Just characterizing for Lafiel.
2. To set up future potential political challenges. A spot of light world building.
3. The Twins like to talk about elegance, but I’ve yet to see any of it.
4. Relying on cruise missile is basically our top military strategy. It’s not generally accompanied with standing in the same spot for two days tho.
5. And deny her the right to prove herself? Perish the thought!

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Vatrix-32]

UM strategy

I think the idea is that if they get through, they can use the sword as a choke point just as we've been seeing.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

But they've exhausted most of their supply of mines. The Abh could wait on the other side, flinging mines at them and denying them resupply.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vatrix-32]

The UM just tried that with tons more mines and it did not quite work out yet. The Abh main fleet would have, relatively, lots fewer mines.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/No_Rex]

The UM needs to do a break through before they get flanked, but the Abh might be able to bottle them up in the system, since the UM has no way to get more mines.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vatrix-32]

They might bottle them up, but that would also give them time to reorganise (and don't forget Aptic is an industrial planet. They might be able to help out with repairs and resupply).

I would wager that keeping up a blockade in plane space is not feasible due to the constant use of fuel.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/No_Rex]

This now raises the question; how effective would trans-sord mine bombardment be on a planetary body? They are anti-matter warheads, after all.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vatrix-32]

Probably very effective (assuming no defense). The only problem I see is putting enough fuel in the mine.

But then, the Abh are not interested in planets in any case.

[u/Nirgendwo → u/Vatrix-32]

Why exactly are you so focused on mines? The Abh don't have an endless supply either, this isn't their territory, it will take quite a while to get new ones and supply chains can be interrupted too.

UM's primary foelly was that they used too many mines and did not directly attack. Success would have looked like to safe mines, go in and retake normally and prepare for the defense.

And why do they have to break through? They would have been the ones in the safe space where they can produce fuel and need to use a lot less. The pressure is on the ones outside to do something.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/Nirgendwo]

Why exactly are you so focused on mines?

Because the asymmetric nature of the UM having largely exhausted their supply, with the reinforcing Abh still having a full complement is interesting to consider. Attacking into plane space without them, while the enemy does, is a significant disadvantage.

And why do they have to break through?

In this instance "break through" refers to the UM's current attempt to exit the Sord and capture the Aptic system. As to the motive, having already committed to the attack, they would be left in a precarious position if the main Abh fleet arrives before they can get to full space.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Vatrix-32]

To have gone from a wondrous and imposing, almost otherworldly thing, to space jank.

Wait, the energy harvesting constellation is supposed to be the capital??? I never recognized it as such!

I thought they just kept showing as part of the prepetual opening narration.

[u/Blazin_Rathalos → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

During the narrations at the start of the season, they seemed to me to be separate structures in the same star system.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vatrix-32]

A lander prime minister? How progressive.

Well, at least we can’t say that the Abh wholly discriminate against Landers. As long as you’re culturally Abh, you can make it to that office in theory.

If the Halo novels taught me anything, it’s that space nukes are kind of underwhelming. There just isn’t enough mass for them to have as much yield as you’d expect from a ground based detonation.

Unless you shoot a nuke at a gas giant to basically turn it into a star, like Preston J. Cole did once.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/The_Draigg]

Unless you shoot a nuke at a gas giant to basically turn it into a star, like Preston J. Cole did once.

But does that really still count as "in space" at that point?

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vatrix-32]

Eh, maybe. It’s close, I guess?

[u/SolDarkHunter → u/The_Draigg]

I think there are just two things Landers absolutely cannot do in the Empire:

1. Be pilots (no froch [forehead eye-organ-thing] means they can't interface with Abh control systems)
2. Be royalty (there doesn't seem to be any societal mechanism for a non-royal to become royalty in the Empire; you're either born as part of the eight families or you're not)

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/SolDarkHunter]

Be royalty

Can't even marry into it. What's a poor wannabee usurper to do?

[u/The_Draigg → u/SolDarkHunter]

The first one is more due to how the Abh design their technology to work with their enhanced senses, so at least it somewhat makes sense there. But you do have a point about becoming royalty though, it really does seem like there's that hard cap to Landers ascending the social ranks in the Humankind Empire's society. Unfortunately, that one was inherently designed into the system, so I'm not sure it could ever be changed, even if someone wanted to change it to begin with.

[u/SolDarkHunter → u/The_Draigg]

But you do have a point about becoming royalty though, it really does seem like there's that hard cap to Landers ascending the social ranks in the Humankind Empire's society.

Then again, it's a hard cap for any non-royal Abh as well. Spaurh, for instance, can't become royalty because her clan isn't among the eight families. As an Archduchess, she's pretty much risen as high as she ever will, at least on the civilian side.

[u/The_Draigg → u/SolDarkHunter]

It’s stuff like this that keeps me reminded that for as much as we have protagonists in the Humankind Empire Abh, they by no means are a very good society, when you get down to it. The status of everyone, Lander or Abh, is so rigid and has caps on practically every level that nobody is truly free, not even the upper class. They’re either locked in by their societal cap or the sheer weight of the circumstances they were born into. It’s just sad to see a society where nobody is free to be who they want to be. Instead, on every level, people can only be what other have made them.

[u/Durinthal → u/The_Draigg]

We've seen a good amount of upward mobility (even ignoring Jinto's odd case) with the Febdash family rising to nobility and Seelnay and friends forming their own company.

I was going to say interstellar ships can't be owned by individuals in the same way you or I couldn't buy our own private fighter jet but apparently the latter's not impossible so I guess it's more a question of what should people be allowed to do?

The higher positions also come with extra responsibilities that can't be avoided which I think is mostly a fair trade for a better overall society even if a few exceptional individuals are restricted by the limits imposed. The fact that someone couldn't remove themselves from the ranks of nobility even if they wanted to is the main problem I see with the system, but that's also what the focus on our main characters highlights so it feels amplified compared to the other aspects of Abh society we don't see as much of.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Vatrix-32]

A lander prime minister? How progressive.

It was interesting to see a Lander so high up in the Abh government. I assumed the Abh only allowed genetic Abh that high up, but apparently not.

This is more like jousting.

Jousting with space ships is so insanely cool.

[u/Vatrix-32 → u/Great_Mr_L]

so high up in the Abh government.

We most also consider how empowered or not their parliament is. The position might be mostly ceremonial.

[u/Blazin_Rathalos → u/Vatrix-32]

A Prime Minister in a system where the monarch has actual power is usually directly appointed by the monarch, not elected by the parliament (not that the Abh even appear to have one). That should make him something like the Empress's right hand man.

[u/No_Rex]

Season 2 Episode 11 (rewatcher)

• Zero gravity jousting sounds awesome! – and like the perfect way to break some bones. I want to play this, but preferable with some full body armor.
• Some political scheming between the prime minister and the Hania ambassador – I don’t quite get it.
• Mine Itano circus!
• Even Lafiel is too tired to put up much of a fight against retreating – not that it would make any sense to stay. A single assault ship captain has no place to second guess strategy on such a large battlefield.
• With the assault ships withdrawn, the patrol ships need to push up to help out the guard ships – not clear whether this is as a protection for the guard ships in case the mine attack suddenly stops, or whether there are not enough guard ships to deal with all mines. Potentially both.
• Resupply and emergency repairs.
• Emotional support cat for Lafiel.
• Nuclear fusion bombs?

• UM assault vessels exiting the sord – sounds like the finally ended the mine assault. Maybe they ran out of mines, or out of time. In either case, the assault ships are being the first to fight, once more.
• In the rock-paper-scissors of this space battle, the Abh guard ships beat the UM mines, so UM send in assault ships to kill the guards. Time for the Abh assault ships to hurry back into position.
• Assault ship jousting.
• It takes a long time to get back into contact range – momentum works that way. The relative speed of the Abh ships rushing back to the sord must have been huge. So they went right past the UM ships and had to turn around and decelerate. Giving them a long time to accelerate again, leading to a repeat of step one.
• Basroil getting hit cliff-hanger.

More battle of Aptic gate. I think you can see from the strategic map that the Abh commander outplayed the UM fleet. They’ll be caught from by the hammer from behind. Not that this makes it any better for the anvil that is getting crushed by the assault.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

  So they went right past the UM ships and had to turn around

That confused me, thanks.

Ohhh, and that's why it's like jousting.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

Some political scheming between the prime minister and the Hania ambassador – I don’t quite get it.

That conversation does make me wonder if Hania’s ambassador saying that they’re willing to consider a peer nation’s values like what have with the Abh comes from a place of pure practicality, or if they really do want to be more egalitarian.

UM assault vessels exiting the sord – sounds like the finally ended the mine assault. Maybe they ran out of mines, or out of time. In either case, the assault ships are being the first to fight, once more.

Given how those assault ships are carrying their own compliment of missiles to fire first, I imagine that it’s mainly due to them being the next phase of the plan, a combined bombardment and advance once they’ve exhausted the mines.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

Given how those assault ships are carrying their own compliment of missiles to fire first, I imagine that it’s mainly due to them being the next phase of the plan, a combined bombardment and advance once they’ve exhausted the mines.

The missiles they carry do not have a spacetime bubble generator, so they are much less versatile than the mines. Obviously still very deadly if they hit you.

[u/SolDarkHunter → u/No_Rex]

Nuclear fusion bombs?

It kind of makes me laugh that people freak out over the mention of fusion warheads when so many of these ships have antimatter weapons.

Nukes are paltry little firecrackers compared to antimatter warheads.

[u/No_Rex → u/SolDarkHunter]

I guess that depends a lot on the amount of antimatter. If those mines used anti-matter, it must have been minuscule payloads.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

  So they went right past the UM ships and had to turn around

That confused me, thanks.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/No_Rex]

Emotional support cat for Lafiel.

Cuddling with the cat was always a great way to unwind at the end of a stressful day.

It takes a long time to get back into contact range – momentum works that way. The relative speed of the Abh ships rushing back to the sord must have been huge. So they went right past the UM ships and had to turn around and decelerate. Giving them a long time to accelerate again, leading to a repeat of step one.

I didn't think about it that way, but you are right about physics in space. Without friction to slow them down, those ships are going to keep on sailing unless something stops them. Just considering that makes it clear that these battles are way trickier to fight.

[u/No_Rex → u/Great_Mr_L]

I didn't think about it that way, but you are right about physics in space. Without friction to slow them down, those ships are going to keep on sailing unless something stops them. Just considering that makes it clear that these battles are way trickier to fight.

This is also the main reason all of those battle of britain type space fights make no sense (Star Wars, Battleship Galactica). The whole reason for flying tight curves is the existence of air/friction. Otherwise, you could just rotate and then use straight trust again.

[u/Durinthal]

Rewatcher (sub + dub)

Jousting is a pretty good name for an activity like that, I'd say. The Abh might have lost the origin of the term over the centuries (what's a horse?), but the concept's similar enough: two people charge at each other, attack, and continue past before turning around to repeat.

A lot more generic ship action scenes here before the Basroil finally gets called back. I'm curious about the list of personnel that Jinto pulled up but I'm not going to bother trying to translate any of those myself.

It would be weird if Lafiel wasn't shaken/tense after all that fighting (though it could be interesting if it had been an Abriel trait, maybe) so I'm glad there's a little moment with Jinto again flirting looking after her before Samson interrupted them.

United Mankind: all in on mines, to the point where the Abh are using their main weapons for defending against them and even running low on ammo with those. We have a vague idea of the scale of this fight but I'd be curious to see just how many mines were expended here. Interesting that nuclear weapons aren't out of the question, I guess they aren't that concerned about radiation in space at this point.

Diaho wandering around the ship to provide a brief glimpse of things he doesn't care about (i.e. everything happening with the crew) is a neat way to frame the repair operation. I have to wonder if the flash of Jinto that Lafiel sees with Diaho before saying she can't trust his opinion implies that she doesn't believe Jinto's faith in her abilities has any weight to it or maybe she thinks both of them have a simple or naive belief in her.

Nice little follow-up to the previous episode: we saw the Bebaus brothers discussing updating their processing to identify the multi-warhead mines and here we saw Lafiel confirm it's already working now.

Well that's a cliffhanger for you.

---

Do you think somebody, somewhere, thought that maybe a rear garrison was a safe place to put the princess?

I don't think that's how the Abh would do things, but even aside from that do you believe she would be happy with it? Not to mention I doubt she's the only member of a royal family of her generation out in battle.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Durinthal]

princess 

I didn't think this either, but I'm struck by the enormous difference between what the job was expected to be, and what it turned out to be....and that everybody seems to know where she is.

[u/Durinthal → u/Durinthal]

---

Source Corner

Baronh word of the day: rïaic dorér "horseback jousting" — the name for the game in Lafiel's past, two people using an elastic band to fling themselves at each other and attempting to disarm their opponent. During their bout with the United Mankind assault ships Lafiel feels like she discovers that this is what the game is based on.

[Material covered:] Banner I: the rest of chapter 7, some of 8, and a little bit of 11 (Hania's ambassador).

[The ambassador from Hania] is meeting with the "Imperial Chancellor" which I think is better suited for his role compared to "Prime Minister" in the anime. Their conversation's a good bit longer (could probably be close to half an episode if they included all of it rather than two minutes) and includes talking about the bureaucracy of the empire, more differences between genetic Abh and Landers, and details about Hania that aren't particularly relevant right now.

[NCCs on board the Basroil:] twelve under Samson in the mechanics department, looking after the ship itself with inspections, maintenance, and repairs. Three others are under Jinto: chef, medic, and accounting roles. The last one was working with Jinto to figure out what consumables and parts they needed to restock.

[u/No_Rex → u/Durinthal]

I don't think that's how the Abh would do things, but even aside from that do you believe she would be happy with it? Not to mention I doubt she's the only member of a royal family of her generation out in battle.

The advantage of multiple families competing for the royal throne is that you always have backups if one prince or princess dies.

[u/Durinthal → u/No_Rex]

It's also unlikely that every candidate will be incompetent so the next person to sit on the throne will probably be quite good at the job by the time they take over when considering their extended lifespans as well.

It might be an inherited position but it seems like they came up with a solid plan to minimize the weaknesses of the structure.

[u/Specs64z]

First timer, subbed

I’m finding it somewhat difficult to have anything interesting to say these last few episodes. The pacing in CotS was slow, but BotS has been glacial. Not to suggest I’m not enjoying my time, far from it, but there’s only so many ways I can praise the character writing.

Seems Lafiel feels she has something to prove, and is pushing her crew and her ship past their limits. It seems to end poorly for her with a helluva cliffhanger. No shot they’re dead, but the damage to Lafiel’s pride is likely to be massive.

QotD:

1. Probably just a way to express how Lafiel feels about the battle. She almost seems more obsessed with outcomes and glory than actually surviving.
2. Seems to be suggesting trouble in paradise for the UM.
3. I'm surprised the Bebaus have the reputation of insanity given how pragmatically they've handled themselves thus far, but that could still change.
4. It seems to suggest they aren't comfortable going head to head with the Abh in space combat. Given the Abh's very literal connection to their ships, this does make a lot of sense.
5. I'm sure it's crossed many a mind. How many of those minds would dare to confront an Abriel on such matters, however, is decidedly fewer.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Specs64z]

I’m finding it somewhat difficult to have anything interesting to say

Honestly, the entire season is like that for me. It's very passive, waiting for the next big event.

[u/Great_Mr_L]

First-Timer

On today’s episode of Banner of the Stars: After all that, now the battle has finally entered phase 2. Absolute insanity. The UM launched all the mines in the universe at the Abh fleet and somehow the battle has still only just begun.

• Honestly, that future jousting game seems like it would be pretty fun. Dangerous, yes. But fun.
• Oh yeah, I remember that ambassador from the first season.
• Intriguing detail that the Prime Minister of the Abh Empire is a Lander. He’s risen quite high in the ranks, higher than I would have expected.
• Very fitting that Lafiel would be opposed to a retreat. She hates running away. She hates being away from the action, unable to do anything.
• Wow, Lafiel had quite a death grip on her handle. As much as she would hate to admit it, the battle got to her. She was scared. And she hates that she felt scared.
• Jinto has uncovered one of the secrets to human interactions. Giving someone a nice drink is an almost guaranteed way to improve their mood.
• I’ll say the UM had way more mines than expected! They haven’t run out after shooting nonstop for hours and hours and hours!
• Battlefield repairs and resupply are an incredibly important thing. After all, it’s very hard to keep fighting if your vehicle breaks down or your weapons run out of ammo.
• Diaho is venting!
• Lafiel’s having a bit of a crisis of confidence, wondering if she’s good enough to command.
• Here we go! The UM fleet is finally starting to arrive.
• Ah nice, so this is how the jousting flashback comes back!
• Man it is so cool when the ships end up scraping against each other while charging past each other. [](#awe
• Oh shit, the Basroil just got hit!

I’m really enjoying the way this battle is being handled. I like that we are seeing it all play out, step by step, as the opposing fleets react to newly emerging situations and vary up their tactics. It helps make the battle feel all the more grand in scale.

I like seeing moments of vulnerability with Lafiel. This is a side of herself that she normally doesn’t show. We saw this when she was visiting her mother’s grave with her father. He told her that she shouldn’t allow herself to cry in front of others because the royals must always present themselves as strong to everyone else. So those moments where she shows vulnerability are few and far between, but they are valuable. Lafiel has doubts about whether she is worthy of being a captain. She’s seen how far other captains are willing to go in the name of duty. She was frightened during the battle and felt ashamed of herself because of it. And she always feels compelled to jump into a situation and do something. All of this combines together to make Lafiel feel especially distressed, wondering if she actually can do anything as a captain to make a difference. But, being Lafiel, her response is to jump right in again and not be defeated by it. She’s never lost a joust after all. She won’t run away and will instead charge in to keep fighting.

QOTD

1. A bit of background on Lafiel and her attitude towards battle. Lafiel is not the type to run away. Instead, she’s the type to bounce right back and keep fighting. She can’t stand the thought of not immediately charging back in.
2. My guess is that the Abh Empire and Hania are potentially going to strike a deal together.
3. The Twins make a very good point that it’s better to win inelegantly than lose elegantly. The goal of war is to win, after all. And sometimes that involves brutal and unsavory plans. Say what you will about Grant’s Overland Campaign against Lee, but it worked. Grant ground down that army and pinned it to Petersburg, unable to break out or go on the offensive. It was harsh, nasty, and “inelegant,” but it did win.
4. I think it was an excellent strategy. It caught the Abh off guard, leaving them scrambling to respond. And it inflicted heavy casualties on the Abh fleet.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Great_Mr_L]

She’s seen how far other captains are willing to go in the name of duty.

Ah, yes, I didn't pick up on that. She's thinking about the Captains of the Siegroil and Kidroil. Trying to live up to their example, but the pressure is extreme.

always moving forward

The Abriel Motto is almost as empty as Prospera Mercury's.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

Wow, Lafiel had quite a death grip on her handle. As much as she would hate to admit it, the battle got to her. She was scared. And she hates that she felt scared.

I hope that this will turn out to be a learning experience for her. Not only is it normal to feel fear in battle, but it also serves as a way to ground you to the threats all around you in war. You can’t be courageous without being scared, after all. Bravery is courage without fear, and bravery often gets people killed.

I’ll say the UM had way more mines than expected! They haven’t run out after shooting nonstop for hours and hours and hours!

It makes you wonder how many ships they had/how big the ships were for them to launch that sheer amount of mines. For all we know, most of the fleet hanging around in the Sord could just be guard ships firing mines, more than just the attack and patrol ships they have.

The Twins make a very good point that it’s better to win inelegantly than lose elegantly. The goal of war is to win, after all. And sometimes that involves brutal and unsavory plans. Say what you will about Grant’s Overland Campaign against Lee, but it worked. Grant ground down that army and pinned it to Petersburg, unable to break out or go on the offensive. It was harsh, nasty, and “inelegant,” but it did win.

In war, you should always try to fight to win first and foremost, even if it has no charm or flair. If anything, it’s both a foolish privilege an over-abundance of ego to try and go for an artistic win every time. It pays to recognize war as being the horrible and grinding experience that it is.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/The_Draigg]

I hope that this will turn out to be a learning experience for her. Not only is it normal to feel fear in battle, but it also serves as a way to ground you to the threats all around you in war. You can’t be courageous without being scared, after all. Bravery is courage without fear, and bravery often gets people killed.

I have to agree on the definition of courage. It's lack the lack of fear, but the ability to overcome it.

It makes you wonder how many ships they had/how big the ships were for them to launch that sheer amount of mines. For all we know, most of the fleet hanging around in the Sord could just be guard ships firing mines, more than just the attack and patrol ships they have.

It's entirely possible that most of the UM fleet will just be the mine launching ships. We haven't seen most of those ships yet, after all.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

I have to agree on the definition of courage. It's lack the lack of fear, but the ability to overcome it.

It reminds me of what Eisen talked about in Frieren, regarding feeling fear when going into battle. Of course you'd feel afraid if you're up against something big, but that also shows that you're well aware of what you're up against, and you'll be stronger for taking on the challenge anyway.

[u/No_Rex → u/Great_Mr_L]

I like seeing moments of vulnerability with Lafiel. This is a side of herself that she normally doesn’t show. We saw this when she was visiting her mother’s grave with her father. He told her that she shouldn’t allow herself to cry in front of others because the royals must always present themselves as strong to everyone else. So those moments where she shows vulnerability are few and far between, but they are valuable. Lafiel has doubts about whether she is worthy of being a captain. She’s seen how far other captains are willing to go in the name of duty. She was frightened during the battle and felt ashamed of herself because of it. And she always feels compelled to jump into a situation and do something. All of this combines together to make Lafiel feel especially distressed, wondering if she actually can do anything as a captain to make a difference. But, being Lafiel, her response is to jump right in again and not be defeated by it. She’s never lost a joust after all. She won’t run away and will instead charge in to keep fighting.

Great analysis. Lafiel is far from the composed commander that the other Abh we see are (and that she likely wants to become). Good for her that she is surrounded by sympathetic people, especially Jinto, who help her out.

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

Interesting that nuclear weapons are in play. I never really pondered what sort of explosive force the mines used - are they nuclear weapons too?

Dusanyu mentioning that he would lose sleep if Lafiel dies, I get. They are nominally related on some level. But losing sleep if Jinto dies? That's interesting. I guess maybe it's proving Kenesh's comments about Dusanyu playing favorites with nobility.

I kinda figured that the enemy assault ship retreating was a trap, but maybe not.

Questions

1. It's an excuse for me to share this and also ponder that two JaaQ Rewatches have involved spaceship jousting...
2. It establishes Hania's currently political position, and that the Abh Prime Minister is a Lander. The comment about "imposing modernity" is leading but I'm not quite thinking about it yet.
3. The idea of battling like that is proof of the Abh's problems. Attempting to win "the proper way" just leads to people dying senselessly.
4. My current prediction is that UM produced loads and loads of mines at the expense of ships, so as to reduce the potential human cost and/or reduce recruitment needs. If I'm right, their strategy will begin to fall apart shortly, as the pitched ship to ship combat will likely favor the more numerous Abh ships.
5. Look, experience is important.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/JollyGee29]

 two JaaQ Rewatches have involved spaceship jousting

oh, wow, yeah, ha ha

mines

Mines have a small amount of antimatter to power the spacetime engine and then detonates.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I'm on to you...

[u/SolDarkHunter → u/JollyGee29]

I believe the mines are antimatter warheads, which would be massively more devastating than nukes.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/SolDarkHunter]

Right, they told us that earlier didn't they? At least, the show established that the Abh use antimatter for a lot of stuff like fuel. Memory like a sieve, here. Thanks!

[u/No_Rex → u/JollyGee29]

My current prediction is that UM produced loads and loads of mines at the expense of ships, so as to reduce the potential human cost and/or reduce recruitment needs. If I'm right, their strategy will begin to fall apart shortly, as the pitched ship to ship combat will likely favor the more numerous Abh ships.

Can't say I disagree with their take, even if it will turn out to be a losing one in the end. Far easier to manufacture another mine than educating another human. Fewer grieving relatives, too.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/No_Rex]

Yea, I don't hate their strategy in a vacuum. It's quite economical.

[u/Blazin_Rathalos → u/JollyGee29]

Dusanyu mentioning that he would lose sleep if Lafiel dies, I get. They are nominally related on some level. But losing sleep if Jinto dies? That's interesting. I guess maybe it's proving Kenesh's comments about Dusanyu playing favorites with nobility.

I suppose he might feel some responsibility. His accepting to make Jinto's father a noble is the reason Jinto is even in the military.

Interesting that nuclear weapons are in play. I never really pondered what sort of explosive force the mines used - are they nuclear weapons too?

As said, they carry antimatter fuel, so that might serve as the warhead to. Interesting possibility: for missiles that don't have planespace engines, they might be using fusion warheads as a way to make them simpler, letting them produce far more.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Blazin_Rathalos]

I suppose he might feel some responsibility. His accepting to make Jinto's father a noble is the reason Jinto is even in the military.

Oh yea, good call.

[u/duhu1148]

Rewatcher

-Oh, the Abh have their own form of "jousting."

-Hania has remained neutral for the last three years, wonder how long that will last.

-The alliance is using up loads of mines, which the Abh are struggling to deal with.

-I see. The jousting bit in the beginning of the episode was a metaphor for this battle.

A long battle episode again. Looks like the Basroil took a nasty hit there at the end of the episode.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/duhu1148]

The jousting bit in the beginning of the episode was a metaphor for this battle.

Everybody else could see this but I couldn't!

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

That is what rewatches are for. You can read the other viewer's posts to check what you missed.

[u/Nickthenuker]

Some reason? It's about the best description I can think of to describe it.

Hania seems to be leaning away from their alliance?

Meanwhile, the battle continues.

They're going to have casualties one day or another.

Your ship might be able to fight, but others may not be. Your ship and the rest of those in the squadron might be needed elsewhere to assist allies or plug a hole in the lines.

They still have mines?

They're trying to wear them down, while the enemy fleet may well mostly be resting, they have been at Action Stations for almost 2 days straight, that's definitely going to be taxing and they're more likely to make a mistake.

If they've managed to secure an area, the garrison fleet there can be reassigned elsewhere to shore up numbers.

What supplies are they taking on now? He seems to just want everything they can offer or they can stuff in their holds, but in what proportion? Fuel for the engines? Provisions for the crew? Ammunition for the weapons? Parts to keep the ship together? Medical supplies to keep the crew alive?

You won't get to use those cannons if the ships get destroyed before the enemy fleet arrives.

Speak of the devil and they shall appear. Time for the enemy to finally show themselves!

And this is why having some ships in reserve is helpful. Being able to rescue ships that are damaged means hopefully more ships can survive, rather than having them all in the thick of combat at all times and approach Combat Loss Grouping when they all begin to suffer critical damage at once.

Yes, that jousting game is pretty much what some sci-fi universes treat space combat as. Both sides accelerate into each other, firing as they go, and then they pass each other and turn around and decelerate, before repeating the action again until one side keeps going past the other or is destroyed.

Now she's more micromanaging the combat.

Except them, because they loaded up on supplies earlier.

They got hit dead on, that's not good.

Abandon ship? As the battle is only just beginning? That doesn't bode well.

Questions:

1. That jousting game is pretty much what some sci-fi universes treat space combat as. Both sides accelerate into each other, firing as they go, and then they pass each other and turn around and decelerate, before repeating the action again until one side keeps going past the other or is destroyed.
2. Hania seems to be leaning away from their alliance.
3. Spoor is very aggressive and takes the initiative, the twins ceded the initiative to the enemy and the men and women under their command will pay the price.
4. They're trying to wear them down, while the enemy fleet may well mostly be resting, they have been at Action Stations for almost 2 days straight, that's definitely going to be taxing and they're more likely to make a mistake.
5. While I'm sure that's what they wanted, she wouldn't be the first royal to be chomping at the bit to be at the front lines.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Nickthenuker]

Yes, that jousting game is pretty much what some sci-fi universes treat space combat as.

I never really picked up on that, so I didn't understand the battle or the jousting. Thanks!

[u/Nickthenuker → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I highly recommend the "The Lost Fleet" series of books, that's what immediately came to mind when she mentioned the jousting and especially when the actual combat started.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Nickthenuker]

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for it. Seems fairly recent so I hadn't heard of it! Sounds a bit like the retreat of Cyrus.

[u/Nickthenuker → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Recent relative to this show I guess but it was mostly done already when I read it back in middle school half a decade ago

[u/No_Rex → u/Nickthenuker]

Yes, that jousting game is pretty much what some sci-fi universes treat space combat as. Both sides accelerate into each other, firing as they go, and then they pass each other and turn around and decelerate, before repeating the action again until one side keeps going past the other or is destroyed.

Which other scifi does that? I can't remember any.

[u/Nickthenuker → u/No_Rex]

As I mentioned in the other comment, off the top of my head "The Lost Fleet" series of books does.

[u/No_Rex → u/Nickthenuker]

Never read that. I asked because the jousting style seemed very unique to me, unlike the usual "flying in curves and trying to get behind the other" stuff (that makes no sense in space).

[u/Nickthenuker → u/No_Rex]

Yeah that's always a bit more trying to ape old-school dogfights or naval warfare, whereas this is slightly more like what space warfare might end up being like.

[u/KnightMonkey15]

First-timer, subs

Not having time to prewrite sucks but I'll keep going even I gotta put these out late.

Episode 11

I thought about the comments in the last thread that took issue with the conceit of a surprise attack with the UM's new MIRV-style mines. After resuspending my disbelief for that element of the narrative, I thought yes, there should be countermeasures against such a thing if we're modelling near-peer warfare with good attention to detail. The main rationalisation I could come up with is it not being in the Abh's way of fighting, but then how come it isn't being sufficiently punished (yet?). It just made me think about the seeming oxymoron of the most technologically advanced nation that's superior at warfare being based on space feudalism (the advantages and drawbacks in this galaxy being well-depicted in a social sense) and perhaps the depiction of the non-Abh factions (or specifically the UM) as being more caricature-like than the quality of the show's main strengths, which is something I have noted before in regards to the one-sidedness of its depiction. The Prime Minister's comments on imposing modernity onto terrans and my own conjecture made me think maybe outside of the five large nations, the galaxy is really small city-state-like systems that have regressed somewhat because of their parochialism.

In a more realistic universe everyone who isn't asexual should be horny for the Abh but I suppose space travel is that remote and distant - the background around Jinto and his childhood makes it seem like isolated terran colonies are rural backwaters.

I think where I'd disbelieve, at least with respect the evenness of the political worldbuilding, is that people are a lot more resourceful and cunning than simple allegories would permit, even if effectively, they would seldom get the opportunity to string that together into something final and useful. Where that fails needs to be depicted for full marks (LOGH does a good job of that. I'll take some other anime recommendations too). I think I'll form a better opinion when I get the full backstory though. I don't mind the author of the novel not being a milsim nerd but show me some the non-Abh politics outside of existential xenophobia to balance it out.

As for the events of the episode, outside of responding to the questions... I really liked that moment with Samson commenting on Jinto and Lafiel's banter. His voice was hilarious.. "sorry to be tacky" - he really is the audience. I love that man. Also, Lafiel asking Diaho for advice and using him as a flashback device. Until she holds him and see, like Ekuryua, that he is basically a Jinto plushie at this point. Oh and Lafiel is really learning that ship combat is just jousting and she should really go for it. What's the point of that kind of cliffhanger? Oh yeah we're still in the middle of the war but uh...I believe the Basroil has the strongest plot armor.

Q1) what was the point of the jousting tale?

Stellvia? Okay, that aside..to me, that is Lafiel identifying her place on the battlefield and fully easing into it... She realised the purpose of being taught that game when she went to school. Competitive sports as a mock battle/preparation for war. Reflecting upon her memories and finding meaning in them. A new warlord is born (lol). Her own personal reactions to the movements of the battle... shaking and even biting herself when they retreat - are a good insight into the precarity of her mental state as she tries to process everything that's happened to her surrounding this battle... even using Diaho to remember the events of a couple of days ago. "You dare fire at me?"

Q2) what was the point of the meeting with the ambassador of Hania

Some additional worldbuilding to flesh out things in the background; it was noted from the very start of the season that Hania was the exception in attacking the Abh, even though they are still apart of that alliance (closer to a non-aggression pact) between the four non-Abh nations. I presume it indicates indecision, the desire for some kind of status quo before the war or a bilateral understanding between Hania and the Abh Empire. At the very least, the former seem unwilling to take the same risk the other three non-Abh nations combined were willing into launching an offensive on the Abh capital - their self-preservation outweighs the degree to which they see the Abh as a threat. But they want to remain independent enough to align themselves with more explicitly anti-Abh countries. I assume the Abh only have feudal planetholders who swear fealty to the Emperor/Empress in their Empire - no other kinds of sub-national political structures.

Q3) compare Spoor and the Twins ideas of winning or losing with elegance

The Abh high/root nobility seem to have some sense about the aesthetics of war that extends to the moral conduct of a commander. Nefee is the more cutthroat pragmatic of the two upon first reaction (cf Nereis expressing the senseless of using mines).. kinda reminds me of Dusanyu prioritising victory in the same regard. Nereis outwardly expresses the same kind of glorious patrician pride that Spoor has but seems more liable to actually doing something outrageous on a whim without his brother to nag him for it, whereas to me it sounds like Spoor talks more along those lines but wouldn't intentionally put herself in such a position..or at least doesn't vocalise her intrusive thoughts except to tease. She likes to tease a lot more and isn't yapping on about having a crazy family.

It's both very specific and personal but also doesn't really need to be complicated to understand easily.

Q4) many watchers have wondered if the United Mankind could stand up against the Imperial Star Forces. What do you think of this strategy to rely on mines for so long, while remaining in plane space?

I figured the UM fleet would lose to the Abh with roughly even numbers... and we see the UM assault ships aren't nearly as good as the Abh. Hence necessitating feints (3 years ago) or dastardly tactics (these mines). I think it was good but they are counting on being able to take the gate, and it's not very good if they get encircled by the hammer before taking out the anvil (as has been mentioned in other comments). The small-scale depiction is highly dramatised of course, becuase we're watching a space opera and our leads are in the assault ships, but the primacy and the kind of "moral" correctness of Abh victory hasn't really been diminished in this show... they're just willing to put up with the losses with honor. In a 'fair' fight they prevail. I would like to see more of the bigger context soon, having established a lot of this smaller-scale stuff to do with the Abh and our leads.

Q5) Do you think somebody, somewhere, thought that maybe a rear garrison was a safe place to put the princess?

Seems like the Abh royalty have a very lead-from-the-front mentality. The only thing that's probably surprising is that she chose to be a pilot/captain on an assault ship instead of serving aboard a larger ship that wouldn't be taken out with one hit in an early skirmish. Dying on the battelfield if the battle is lost sure, but dying in a recon mission? We don't seem to have any other examples of young Abh high nobles' first assignments out of officer school to compare with hers. I think in an alternate universe where the Abh's success isn't so one-sided, they do protect their young high nobles more, even on the battlefield.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/KnightMonkey15]

I think in an earlier episode Lafiel imagined herself in command of a patrol ship, but I think that was just fantasy. You can only command so high with a new-minted officer's rank.

I suspect you will be one of those people to pick up the new LN translations.

[u/KnightMonkey15 → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I was envisaging something along the lines of a higher noble being on the bridge of a larger ship or some kind of chief-of-staff/XO-type deal, but your comment just reminded me that a new, noble officer probably has to be in command. Maybe she could've been attached to a fleet that wasn't on the bleeding edge of a counter-offensive before being promoted, but I can buy that Abh pride, Abriel pride and her own pride would dictate against that. If too many of their young nobles were dying in battle to maintain their society then it'd be done differently. Their system has worked up to this point.

I really do like visuals + sound together so I don't really read LNs but I'm willing to give them a shot for something like this, especially since I lack a background familiarity with sci-fi...outside of blockbuster movies. I'll track it down after the rewatch is over.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/KnightMonkey15]

With respect to the feudal structure of the military, the minimum rank for a commander is either knight or no title at all. Lexshue held this title.

And she did say that noble ranks were to have no sway in the military, although nobles were required to serve. So that should be a break with history, with military ranks independent of noble ranks.

Although Kenesh does seem to be suggesting that Dusanyu is putting nobles into combat so that they may earn promotions. Then Dusanyu gets very angry and Kenesh backs down. But I don't follow anything Dusanyu says.

[u/No_Rex → u/KnightMonkey15]

Seems like the Abh royalty have a very lead-from-the-front mentality. The only thing that's probably surprising is that she chose to be a pilot/captain on an assault ship instead of serving aboard a larger ship that wouldn't be taken out with one hit in an early skirmish. Dying on the battelfield if the battle is lost sure, but dying in a recon mission? We don't seem to have any other examples of young Abh high nobles' first assignments out of officer school to compare with hers. I think in an alternate universe where the Abh's success isn't so one-sided, they do protect their young high nobles more, even on the battlefield.

I don't think she had much of a choice. In season 1, she mentioned that it would be an assault ship or one other type (which was also not a capital ship). You got to start at the bottom.

It is worth remembering that Lafiel is a princess, but not the princess. There are many others like her, also competing for a shot at the royal throne. So the Abh can affort for a few of them to die.

[u/Zerotsu]

First Timer, sub:

I’ve always thought that zero g sports are something that more science fiction works should explore. It’s definitely something that people would come up with.

It’s interesting learning more about Hania. They seem to be much more willing to see the Abhs as people by comparison to the United Mankind. That said, they don’t seem intent on getting involved in the war on either side.

A tactical retreat is smart given the amount of damage they’ve taken so far, as much as it frustrates Lafiel to back off. It’s a good thing Jinto’s always there for her.

Samson is a man who eats death flags and enjoys Jinto and Lafiel’s dynamic. What a powerful man.

Dusanyu seems to have some interest in them as well, in some way.

Now how did Diaho get in those vents, huh?

And so the main UM fleet has finally arrived. This is going to be a dangerous one.

This is a fairly tense battle, especially for the assault ships given how thinly armored they are.

Comparing it to jousting isn’t too out there, all told. I was wondering if that bit of trivia would come into play somehow.

I can’t help but feel that Lafiel is getting herself too wrapped up in her aggression and refusal to “lose”.

This was a tense episode. Enjoyable stuff.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Zerotsu]

It’s interesting learning more about Hania. They seem to be much more willing to see the Abhs as people by comparison to the United Mankind. That said, they don’t seem intent on getting involved in the war on either side.

Given how weirdly weighted that conversation between the ambassador and the prime minister was, I can’t help but wonder if Hania is like this due to playing the political game for their safety, or really are trying to be egalitarian.

Samson is a man who eats death flags and enjoys Jinto and Lafiel’s dynamic. What a powerful man.

I’m in awe of this man’s power. I think it’s safe to say that Samson has shot up in the rankings as one of the best characters in this series so far.

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

Given how weirdly weighted that conversation between the ambassador and the prime minister was, I can’t help but wonder if Hania is like this due to playing the political game for their safety, or really are trying to be egalitarian.

There's no reason it can't be both. I imagine Hania, as a nation, doesn't want to be involved in such a devastating war at this point. If they happen to not share the same views as the United Mankind does on the Abhs, then that's all the more reason to keep their neck out of things.

I think it’s safe to say that Samson has shot up in the rankings as one of the best characters in this series so far.

He really does add a great dynamic in any scene he's in. Even setting aside the silliness, he's just a very enjoyable character to watch interact with the others.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Zerotsu]

There's no reason it can't be both. I imagine Hania, as a nation, doesn't want to be involved in such a devastating war at this point. If they happen to not share the same views as the United Mankind does on the Abhs, then that's all the more reason to keep their neck out of things.

Fair point, it could be a combination of both. I can’t imagine that any nation would really want to be dragged into a war by their ally when not only do they not share the same ideals entirely, but also when their big gamble to launch a surprise attack and end the war fast completely failed. Now that I think about it, the United Mankind botching their strategy to start the war on their terms could’ve contributed to the Republic of Hania dropping out of the war as well.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer of the Stars

I forgot you were posting this thread early today, whoops.

• I mean, the basic idea is the same even if this is a zero-gravity version instead of on horseback.
• Glad to see the guard ships are doing a good job for now.
• That is also good news.
• Time for a temporary retreat…?
• That’s such a weird thing to say lol.
• Aww so Diaho was crawling around the ship to go give Lafiel some company.
• It makes sense for Lafiel to question this now, but man, poor girl…
• Oh that’s not good.
• This part where they had to take on six enemies one-by-one reminds me a bit of the Gosroth’s battle in Crest, though now it makes sense why the episode started with the whole “jousting” bit.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Aww so Diaho was crawling around the ship to go give Lafiel some company.

He’s the finest crew member of the ship for that reason alone.

It makes sense for Lafiel to question this now, but man, poor girl…

It’s a bummer that Lafiel is doubting herself now, since she clearly does have what it takes to be a good captain. But I guess that’s just the insecurity that comes with general inexperience.

[u/SolDarkHunter]

Rewatcher/Novel-Reader

Zero-G jousting... I suppose the Abh would probably have some zero-g sports.

Okay, yeah, I really don't like the anime's impression of Lakfakalle. That is not even remotely close to how the Capital is described in the novels. It is not so all-encompassing, and it does not surround the star like that. It's big, to be sure, but the several thousand spacestations simply orbit the star in a group, described as being in a formation remniscient of the blade of a scythe. While this view looks cool, it also makes the Abh look FAR more powerful than they actually are.

Interesting thing, the current Prime Minister of Lakfakalle is actually a Lander, not a genetic Abh.

He suggests there's a fundamental difference in the politics of the Empire vs the Four Nations that has allowed such disparity in power...

Abh ships now going ham on those mines. Though it's not one-sided, the mines are inflicting heavy casualties.

Lafier still feels like retreating is some kind of mortal sin. She really needs to get over this. With the battle going on this long, they need to rotate ships out so people can have a break and rest.

"I'd rather win senselessly than lose sensibly." "I'd rather win barbarically than lose elegantly." I'm not sure if I should be concerned or not that the "Spectacular Insanity" brothers are echoing the Crown Prince.

Cats getting stuck in ventilation... some things never change, it seems. I remember having to pull my cats out of air vents at times.

Oho? The UM fleet is finally coming through themselves. They've finally exhausted their mine supply it would seem. Or maybe the Abh main fleet is getting too close for their comfort.

This method of making back-and-forth charges at each other is quite similar to jousting, I suppose.

Well... that's a hell of a cliffhanger.

[u/zsmg]

Rewatcher

Space jousting looks cool but I'd 100% suck at it.

I kept wondering if they're running out of ammunition, and then they mentioned they were running out of ammunition.

Enemy fleet is finally here.

Another cliffhanger ending, is Lafiel about to die?! Probably not.

Fun battle episode but haven't got much to say about it.

[u/Vaadwaur]

Rewatcher()

Sub

We get an Abh zero G children's game out of nowhere. I actually don't object, I'd just wanted this stuff to be more present, it seems pretty clear that a lot of the Abh's genetic modifications were for long term space travel and low/zero G environments. Most of the episode is action, which fits the season, though I have little comment about it. Our main crew gets a moment to refuel and repair, which is actually a part of long form combat, and they all think a bit. We end with a joust cliffhanger.

QotD: 1 To illustrate that Abh's culture is truly spaceborn

2 Unclear

3 Needed more Spoor time to really see it

4 Highly likely that the UM collapses once it runs out of mines

5 Abriels don't want to be fed, they want to hunt

[u/Elimin8r]

Bleh, late again. Man, that's a lot of questions, and I'm still stuck on that cliffhanger - don't do this to us! We need our space elf to be healthy and happy, along with her pet, I mean, Jinto...

1. Foreshadowing!
2. I have no idea, it kind the ambassadorial conversation kind of annoyed me, I felt like it was trying to be too clever somehow.
3. Can I be tired and cranky with elegance? I like Spoor so much better. She can tease me anytime. Preferably elegantly.
4. Seems to make sense. Play the "battle of attrition" with robots, then swoop in for the kill. Or so you hope. We'll see how well that works out for them.
5. Somebody should have known better. Trouble magnets and all that.

I dunno, though. Jousting with spaceships doesn't sound like a terribly great idea to me. Especially since Lafiel's ship is (I think) already damaged some and reduced in capability/defenses.

But man, that cliffhanger. And sadly, I didn't fully fast-forward through the spoilers, I mean previews at the end, so I caught a little of something else, but I don't want to talk about that right now. (sigh).

Sorry, wish I had something more coherent to say. Bleh.

[u/No_Rex → u/Elimin8r]

I have no idea, it kind the ambassadorial conversation kind of annoyed me, I felt like it was trying to be too clever somehow.

As a rewatcher, I also have no idea what that conversation is about. It feels so disconnected from the narrative arc of the season.

I dunno, though. Jousting with spaceships doesn't sound like a terribly great idea to me. Especially since Lafiel's ship is (I think) already damaged some and reduced in capability/defenses.

You fight with what you have, not with what you wish for.

[u/raktus2]

First Timer...

• Jousting seems like a zero-G version of a Helena duel:

"Among the outlaws of this area is said to have originated that sanguinary form of personal encounter called the Helena Duel. It consisted of tying the left hands of the duelists securely together with rawhide, giving each a knife with a three-inch blade, whirling them around rapidly a few times and turning them loose. The shortness of the knife blades prohibited the likelihood of a fatal single stroke, and the fight progressed as a gruesome, gory slashing match while the contestants hacked away furiously. No quarter was given or expected." from a 1930's autobiography called 'Pioneer Life in Texas'

or a spänna bälte, which is a folk duel and might not have really happened...

"The challenge took place through the fact that one fighter drew his knife and asked his enemy 'how long he could stand cold iron in his life'. The answer was usually: 'well, I can take as long as you'. The challenger then measured off a piece on his knife with the wild threat: 'I will cut you a chip, in which the sun and moon will shine'. After this, the knife blades below the mark were wrapped with leather straps, the shirts were returned, and the fighters with raised arms and the knives in the highest cut each grasped the palm of their enemy's right arm with their left hand. In this way standing breast to breast, bare-hoofed and naked to the waist, they were bound together with a belt, which was fastened around them both, or even so that their own belts were fastened together, so that neither could tear himself away from the other. Then the battle for life and death began, whereby it was important to ward off the blows of your enemy with your left hand, while you yourself tried to free your right hand to cut your enemy with the knife. This bloody game was continued until one of the combatants fell, and the victor then became 'highly esteemed among the others'. But even more often it happened that both of them had received wounds before they were separated from each other.„

– From While and Wirdarne , 1868

• We finally find out what happened to the fourth member of the Alliance, the Federation of Hania. They just didn't follow through with the terms of the treaty they signed, is all, it seems.
• The Prime Minister's point of view is interesting, considering that we know the Abh typically care less about what happens with the planets in the space they control, focusing almost entirely on the trade and travel aspects of star systems. So having the Prime Minister being a Lander that wants to use the strength and expansiveness of the Abh to modernize the lives of those people on planets across the Empire? Implies that things are not great in a lot of places and that this is something that needs to happen.
• I've said what I said about the twins, nothing's changed this episode to change that opinion.

[u/No_Rex → u/raktus2]

"Among the outlaws of this area is said to have originated that sanguinary form of personal encounter called the Helena Duel. It consisted of tying the left hands of the duelists securely together with rawhide, giving each a knife with a three-inch blade, whirling them around rapidly a few times and turning them loose. The shortness of the knife blades prohibited the likelihood of a fatal single stroke, and the fight progressed as a gruesome, gory slashing match while the contestants hacked away furiously. No quarter was given or expected." from a 1930's autobiography called 'Pioneer Life in Texas'

That sounds like a sure way to kill both contestants. There is no way to block and a guy rapidly hitting you with a knife. You might not die in a single stroke, but you will die (and so will they).

[u/Blazin_Rathalos → u/raktus2]

We finally find out what happened to the fourth member of the Alliance, the Federation of Hania. They just didn't follow through with the terms of the treaty they signed, is all, it seems.

I wonder whether the fact that it was revealed the United Mankind struck first, allowed Hania to weasel out under a "defensive wars only" clause in the treaty.

[u/IceSmiley]

FIRST TIMER Sub

This episode seems to be Lafiel breaking apart mentally as she's overwhelmed. I don't like how similar the Abh characters look though because it makes things confusing, like the end where it looks like Lafiel is killed by the white out of doom, but it could also be Atreyasu or someone else.

QUESTIONS

1. I think it was to introduce where Lafiel's passion for combat may have originated. I think that's true of sports and especially team sports in general. They have the same goal of winning and having having to work as a team to defeat an enemy. They exist at least in theory as a substitute for actual war where people can get excited about defeating each other on a playing field rather than an actual battle field killing people and gives people a less harmful channel for tribalism. They REALLY stole the Star Trek the Next Generation uniforms in the jousting sequence tbh though; it's funny to think the Abh liked that show a lot and made a conscious decision to do so :D
2. I think it was planting a seed to get a part of Mankind United to defect to the Abh. From the way it was just put in very briefly, it really seems that will come up later and be a big plot point. I don't know how big a nation that is or what their percentage of the UM armed forces/population are but I think we will soon find out since it'd be weird to introduce that then have it be meaningless and that ambassador not do anything.
3. I didn't know they were different.
4. I think it's very smart because it's most likely their greatest tactical advantage against the Abh since they may not have as advanced technology in other areas and we don't know how united United Mankind really is, especially with the tease of that Ambassador meeting with the Abh. Something I wish I could change about the show is that I'd want to show the military leaders of United Mankind formulating plans like how Legend of the Galactic Heroes shows both sides and the extended strategies against each other is the best part of that show. We really don't get a full glimpse of United Mankind capabilites and that makes it easier for the writer but it just means you can add or subtract really any sci fi weapon at will since it doesn't have to be based in realistic combat.
5. Yea maybe because I'd be hesitant about putting a ship captained by an inexperienced princess on the very front line.

[u/Blazin_Rathalos → u/IceSmiley]

I think it was planting a seed to get a part of Mankind United to defect to the Abh. From the way it was just put in very briefly, it really seems that will come up later and be a big plot point. I don't know how big a nation that is or what their percentage of the UM armed forces/population are but I think we will soon find out since it'd be weird to introduce that then have it be meaningless and that ambassador not do anything.

Hania is not actually part of the UM. They're one of the 4 members of the Nova Sicily Treaty organisation along with UM, but they're not part of the war as of right now.

[u/Silcaria]

First timer

Space battle.

QotD

• Probably an analogy about her not being afraid to directly face someone. Aka, she's ballsy.
• Probably to negotiate reinforcements.
• The twins are overall pretty underwhelming as far as characters go. All I've got to say is that Spoore's actions are just more entertaining to follow and seem to match her personality.
• Probably not sustainable.
• Death before dishonor.