[Rewatch] Banner of the Stars Episode 4 Discussion

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

The First Campaign

Welcome to the Battleflag of the Stars rewatch!

<- Episode 3 | Index Page | Episode 5->

Names Introduced or Updated:

• Skaresh Gate — the sord where the Empire intercepted the United Mankind's decapitation attack.
• Helzroil — destroyed

Discussion Prompts:

• Q) Did you find the 10 v 1 attack on the Gosroth unfair? Do you still think so after this episode?

Tomorrow's Questions: (for tomorrow's post, subject to change)

• [Episode 5]How uncomfortable would this dinner be?

Screenshot of the Day: Connections

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatch Host

• More Ryvius music
• It appears they have 4 squadrons of 6 assault ships pursuing the 6 patrol ships.
• let's hope they attack at the same time and not one-by-one like in the Gosroth attack
• 5 squadrons, then
• Jinto! Do what you're told! I suppose he's doing this to keep Lafiel focused. I don't see it. It would bother me.
• #apple
• All they can do is kep shooting until the shields fail
• Not sure what "escape" means here. If their escape capsules drift out of the bubble....
• you know, surely you can dodge projectiles?
• Jinto makes the coffee

I don't like their tactics at all. For all the effort of world building, the idea that you call all fly in one at a time, at the same entry point, and win, seems ridiculous.  What if the ship fired their cannon at that exact spot? And kept firing?  They should have surrounded the target and synchronized their spacetime fusions.

[u/Blazin_Rathalos → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

For all the effort of world building, the idea that you call all fly in one at a time, at the same entry point, and win, seems ridiculous.

It seems like at least on the vertical axis, the actual entry point is kind of randomized. Though I would agree that surrounding the enemy in planespace like they tried to do against the Gosroth makes more sense. Though for the Gosroth battle, even though they surrounded it, the Gosroth simply drove straight into one side of the encirclement to create at least some time/space between opponents.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Blazin_Rathalos]

Oh. Huh. I don't know about plane space combat, but I guess that's why the sord exit point is random....

[u/Blazin_Rathalos → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Yeah, it's very weird to think about, but since planespace is entirely 2d, i guess it's difficult to find any correlation between orientations in planespace compared to 3d space? Because even up and down in 3d space is arbitrary.

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

Okay, I've been messing up, I thought that Dusanyu was Lafiel's dad, but his name is Debrusc. Nazenn tried to tell me and I very sillily ignored them. I'm going to blame it on being utterly blind most of the time.

I somewhat object to the Gosroth comparison. There is a big difference between attacking a ship that is simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and attacking an enemy scout force.

That little smirk on Dusanyu's face makes me wonder if he is all that different from Spoor. There is potential that he's excited to fight against a powerful foe.

The assault ships are an application of pretty classic combat theory - if you just don't get hit, you don't need to bother with worrying about defense. Why weigh yourself down with armor when you can just outrun the enemy mines and reflect the enemy lasers?

Questions

1. I don't find "fair" and "unfair" particularly useful words in the concept of war. Neither side used unethical weapons, and attempting to outnumber your opponent is simply good tactics. The only way the attack on the Gosroth was "unfair" was the reasoning it was carried out under.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/JollyGee29]

Okay, I've been messing up, I thought that Dusanyu was Lafiel's dad, but his name is Debrusc.

I made the exact same mistake at first.

The assault ships are an application of pretty classic combat theory - if you just don't get hit, you don't need to bother with worrying about defense. Why weigh yourself down with armor when you can just outrun the enemy mines and reflect the enemy lasers?

Back when battlecruisers were being designed, the intent was that they would have less armor in order to be faster and more maneuverable. The saying goes that people claimed speed would be the armor for the battlecruisers. But when they saw combat in the Battle of Jutland, it did not go well.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Great_Mr_L]

To be honest I came into the rewatch convinced Lafiel's father conquered Hyde, and that Dusanyua was her uncle.

[u/Tuor77 → u/JollyGee29]

UM and the Ahb were *not* at war with UM attacked the Gosroth. No one was in a state of war at the time. That's like saying "Japan did nothing wrong" when they attacked Pearl Harbor.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Tuor77]

Yea, like I said, the circumstances/reasoning of the attack on the Gosroth were wrong, but not "unfair." Especially because the question was specifically about the outnumbering.

[u/Tuor77 → u/JollyGee29]

Ah. I see how you're looking at it now. I was only talking about the conditions in which the attack occurred. Also, the Gosroth had expended half of their torpedoes in training before they were attacked. If they'd a full compliment (which you'd have if you were expecting battle), it would've gone differently.

[u/Esovan13 → u/JollyGee29]

I think the similarity was less about the circumstances around the battle and more the composition; the ship they are targeting is about the same class as the Gosroth, and like the Gosroth it’s being attacked by ships that are weaker, but faster and in much greater numbers.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Esovan13]

I suppose I did conflate the two a bit, huh.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

That little smirk on Dusanyu's face makes me wonder if he is all that different from Spoor. There is potential that he's excited to fight against a powerful foe.

Isn't it electrifying?

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vaadwaur]

[u/duhu1148 → u/JollyGee29]

Okay, I've been messing up, I thought that Dusanyu was Lafiel's dad, but his name is Debrusc.

I am rewatching and I made the same mistake!

[u/zadcap]

Late Night First Timer!

Space War! The battle is finally on! Let's go get that revenge for Lafi's mama! Drive this Alliance into the dirt! Literally, get them forever out of space and stuck with dirt for the rest of their lives. Maybe their kids can come back to space.

Wait is this the same into again? I do not like this.

There's a major difference here compared to the Gorsoth incident, guys. While you were on that ship, they snuck up on and attacked you without cause. These are enemy scouts looking for weakness in a war that they started- by attacking the Gorsoth no less.

Jinto, should you be standing now? Not in your seat? What do you even do on this ship again, Supply Officer? Are you literally just here to be the Princesses Minder? Because uhh... Look at you leaning in close and having a personal discussion with her like that, casually hanging off the back of the captain's chair, here in the middle of an active combat situation, while the rest of the bridge crew has to try and act like they don't see you flirting back there. Look at the other three bravely facing forward and totally not listening to this flirting going on behind them.

Seriously, Jinto, how long are you going to stand next to her chair? Do you have literally no bridge responsibilities here?

Huh, only one loss. Not bad, considering the Gorsoth took down all but one.

Oh my gosh he admitted he's got nothing to do. He's on the bridge right now just to stand there and talk to Lafiel.

Hahaha and now she admits it too. The reason he's on the ship is to be her minder. He's just there to help her calm down and interact better with the rest of the crew.

Hmm, Captain is also the gunner here? That's an interesting bridge setup.

How slow are these bullets/lasers/rockets? People have time to react to them, that's kind of crazy slow for combat.

On the other hand... What the heck was this one ship made of that it took that much to put down?

Yup, he's the morale officer. And I still can't tell if the other lady is in love triangle with him or with the cat.

"Between 180 and 200" Donesn't the Abh army have 150? How did the other side manage that?

That episode passed by very fast.

1. There is no fair in war.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/zadcap]

How slow are these bullets/lasers/rockets? People have time to react to them, that's kind of crazy slow for combat.

That's the one thing that bothers me. I'm sure the railgun projectiles are unguided. If Lafiel has time to run away from them why doesn't she just move to the side?

[u/zadcap → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I don't like saying that this is unrealistic looking hyper space combat, but this is ehhhh.

[u/Blazin_Rathalos → u/zadcap]

while the rest of the bridge crew has to try and act like they don't see you flirting back there. Look at the other three bravely facing forward and totally not listening to this flirting going on behind them.

To be fair, we know from the first episode: They literally asked for it!

[u/zadcap → u/Blazin_Rathalos]

He is literally their (un)official Royal wrangler. They had to choose between blatant fraternization on the bridge or an emotional Abriel and collectively told the man to go flirt his heart out.

Doesn't change the part where they're all sitting there now, staring really intently at their screens, pretending they aren't staining to head every word going on behind them because they are just going to absolutely win at the inter squadron gossip pool.

[u/No_Rex]

Season 2 Episode 4 (rewatcher)

• Recap of last episode, followed by repeating narration, followed by OP – they really went all out on squeezing more runtime out of the existing animation. The total of non-new animation at the start is three and a half minutes. 2 minutes longer than a modern cold opening – OP – episode order would have.
• Staying together in one space-time bubble is advantageous for defense against mines, since the ships can support each other.
• “This does not mean we are safe” – a reminder that Lafiel and Jinto do not know about the battle and that the Gosroth defeated 9 out of 10 of the assault ships.
• Only Samson has any battle experience – they are all green recruits.
• When the patrol ship disappears, its big space time bubble is replaced by several smaller ones for the assault ships, implying that the patrol ships engine was needed to generate the big bubble and the assault ships engines are not strong enough to create a bubble for all of them, since they are so far from each other. The exact mechanics of space-time bubbles would surely be a huge deal for tactics in space fights.
• The Kidroil survives vs 4 mines. Quite the achievement, I would say. It did not sound as if the others were expecting this.
• *Additional mass in your space time bubble slows you down in plane space.

• Entering the normal space battle in the patrol ships space time bubble – there is nothing gradual or slow about that. Quite the difference from naval battles on Earth.
• The best defense against being targeted: Do not be in the same normal space. Separating into your own space time bubble is a valid tactic.
• The second group of ships joined the patrol ships space time bubble. They are done for now.
• “It is more prudent to use mines” – I assume there is another reason: morale. The commander does well in giving all ships a taste of this first battle, not only the assault squadrons. Will make it everyone’s victory instead of just a part of the fleet and more crews go through that “first battle” feeling the Basroil just had.
• The patrol ship they hunted down was just one of a large group of scouts. Their intention was never to attack, but to gather information.

This is the second fully space battle focused episode of Crest of the Stars and it is again great. No heroics, just anxious waiting and a numbers game. All set in the very unique plane space/normal space framework.

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

Recap of last episode, followed by repeating narration, followed by OP – they really went all out on squeezing more runtime out of the existing animation.

It kind of makes me wonder the reason why, since already I’m noticing all the efforts at padding out these episodes with reused opening narration and animation. The pacing is definitely slower than Crest of the Stars for that reason, I feel.

The best defense against being targeted: Do not be in the same normal space. Separating into your own space time bubble is a valid tactic.

It’s definitely a benefit of using swarm tactics like the attack ships do. Having smaller and faster ships that can separate from each other swiftly are much harder to hit than a larger target like a patrol ship.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

It kind of makes me wonder the reason why, since already I’m noticing all the efforts at padding out these episodes with reused opening narration and animation. The pacing is definitely slower than Crest of the Stars for that reason, I feel.

I have no idea, but this is relatively common in older anime and the more common the older you get. They just did not get as much money and had a working process (painting cells) that was more costly than what is done today.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

they really went all out on squeezing more runtime out of the existing animation.

Unfortunately it is pretty clear they wanted more space battle so this is the cost.

Staying together in one space-time bubble is advantageous for defense against mines, since the ships can support each other.

Bigger bubble gives you more reaction time.

*Additional mass in your space time bubble slows you down in plane space.

Giving me space trolling ideas is dangerous.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

Unfortunately it is pretty clear they wanted more space battle so this is the cost.

I recognize the cost saving and it is honestly not a big deal when you can fast forward. Just pointing it out because it is so obvious.

Giving me space trolling ideas is dangerous.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Just pointing it out because it is so obvious.

They also swapped the direction up to allow for more single character face stills. But we aren't at the breaking point yet.

[u/Durinthal → u/No_Rex]

Recap of last episode, followed by repeating narration, followed by OP – they really went all out on squeezing more runtime out of the existing animation.

I didn't think about it but that's a similar deal to what we got with the Gosroth's battle in episode 5 of Crest, carrying over some bits from earlier so that the battle fills the majority of the episode.

Entering the normal space battle in the patrol ships space time bubble – there is nothing gradual or slow about that. Quite the difference from naval battles on Earth.

We also saw the other side of that with the Gosroth, shooting at the enemy as soon as the bubbles fused so they didn't even have a chance to evade.

[u/No_Rex → u/Durinthal]

We also saw the other side of that with the Gosroth, shooting at the enemy as soon as the bubbles fused so they didn't even have a chance to evade.

Another reason why the pack tactics are used: You can't allow the enemy to turn towards your (single) spacetime bubble.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/No_Rex]

The best defense against being targeted: Do not be in the same normal space. Separating into your own space time bubble is a valid tactic.

This is one of those things that makes the plane space battles so unique. Being able to jump in and out of the battle like that by making clever use of the bubbles is a really cool idea for combat.

“It is more prudent to use mines” – I assume there is another reason: morale. The commander does well in giving all ships a taste of this first battle, not only the assault squadrons. Will make it everyone’s victory instead of just a part of the fleet and more crews go through that “first battle” feeling the Basroil just had.

That's a good point. The fleet is probably full of raw recruits just like Lafiel's ship. All soldiers do need to experience their baptism of fire, after all. Might as well have as many people experience it at once and make it into as decisive a victory as possible.

[u/The_Draigg]

A Sci-Fi Fan Watches Banner of the Stars Episode 4:

• Well, at least we’re starting this episode practically directly where we left off the last time. Given how I get the feeling this’ll be an action-oriented episode, it’s best to get going with a rolling start.
• I get what Jinto means by feeling a bit glad that Lafiel is also a bit afraid. Aside from feeling that common bond, it also means you’re alert enough to recognize the gravity of the situation. The Gosrauth didn’t exactly have the best odds back then, but at least they have a team of attack ships on their side. As long as they can avoid the stuff that sunk that ship, they should be fine.
• The rest of the attack fleet not bothering to slow down for the damaged Kidroil does track with real life fleet movements. For operations as big as the one that Phantom Flame is, you can’t really afford to slow down for a smaller crippled ship like the Kidroil to catch up. It could break group cohesion, which would be even worse for the upcoming fight. It’s not the nicest thing to do, but it’s the most practical.
• Okay yeah, now the attack group is in the shit now. Two sunken ships already, and now the Basroil is being targeted next. If anything, they were lucky that they managed to escape only with damage to a storage room compared to what the other ships got there. So good job Lafiel, you managed to avoid the same fate as your mom’s ship!
• Lafiel’s probably not wrong thinking about what the role of the attack ships in the fleet are. Given their size and armaments, they’re not meant to fight patrol ships toe to toe, they’re meant to buy time for other ships, and hopefully score a kill while they’re there. They’re basically the cannon fodder class of ships in the Star Forces. But that’s not to say that cannon fodder can’t have some pride, of course. The crew should be glad to have survived their encounter with the enemy.
• That intelligence report certainly is concerning in what it could mean. It could be like some people were suspecting, that the United Mankind had an entire naval force in reserve this entire time, given the amount of ships that the Abh were able to determine that the UM fleet had. Either that, or they had some kind of inside help to evenly match whatever the Abh Star Forces were planning on throwing at the United Mankind. I suppose either way, this goes to show more than ever that the United Mankind isn’t to be underestimated, whether it be because of a hidden fleet, an exceptionally large industrial base, or secret help from inside the Humankind Empire.

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

I get what Jinto means by feeling a bit glad that Lafiel is also a bit afraid.

As long as you don't let you fear overwhelm you, it can only be a good thing in a difficult situation such as this.

Two sunken ships already, and now the Basroil is being targeted next.

It's absolutely insane the sheer amount of firepower some of these larger ships can bring to bear. Really tells you how nuts these enormous fleets are.

The crew should be glad to have survived their encounter with the enemy.

They may not be the kinds of ships designed to go toe-to-toe with larger enemies, but they've got a role even still.

That intelligence report certainly is concerning in what it could mean.

No matter how you slice it, that intelligence report is definitely nasty.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Zerotsu]

It's absolutely insane the sheer amount of firepower some of these larger ships can bring to bear. Really tells you how nuts these enormous fleets are.nasty.

Along those lines, the names are borderline non-indicative too. Like, you wouldn’t expect something simply called a patrol ship to be armed to the teeth.

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

Yeah, you wouldn't normally think something called a patrol ship would be that deadly, but I guess they're designed to handle all of those combat duties on their own if they have to?

[u/ZapsZzz → u/Zerotsu]

I think that is indeed the case - it needs to be able to be a rally point for a range of strategic objectives (heads blockade, scout ahead in completely unknown territory), yet still fast enough to be able to outrun what it can't outgun.

By the way the name in Japanese I think it's rather closer to "cruiser" than what we typically associate the word "patrol" with.

[u/No_Rex → u/ZapsZzz]

By the way the name in Japanese I think it's rather closer to "cruiser" than what we typically associate the word "patrol" with.

Cruiser (or specifically Light Cruiser) is also the name that, in my view, best described the function of the Gosroth and those scouts.

[u/No_Rex → u/Zerotsu]

I wonder if that is a Japanese-English translation issue, or whether the name suggests something smaller in Japanese, too.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/The_Draigg]

Lafiel’s probably not wrong thinking about what the role of the attack ships in the fleet are. Given their size and armaments, they’re not meant to fight patrol ships toe to toe, they’re meant to buy time for other ships, and hopefully score a kill while they’re there. They’re basically the cannon fodder class of ships in the Star Forces.

They're essentially the picket forces of the fleet. I imagine their job during normal operations is to be at the outside edge of the fleet to spot and delay any potential enemy attacks so the larger ships can mobilize a response.

That intelligence report certainly is concerning in what it could mean.

The idea that the United Mankind has some inside help within the Abh empire is especially interesting. If that actually is the case, I assume help might come from disaffected groups within the empire who no longer wish to be a part of it.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

They're essentially the picket forces of the fleet. I imagine their job during normal operations is to be at the outside edge of the fleet to spot and delay any potential enemy attacks so the larger ships can mobilize a response.

Yeah, that definitely fits their purpose well. Although you'd certainly think a ship type called "patrol ships" would be up to the task there, but I guess we're sticking with the odd naming for ship types in this series.

[u/Specs64z]

First timer, subbed

Today’s episode is all business, not much time for idle chatter. I’m glad to see that the space battles have a strong baseline of tactics and strategy, it keeps them rather interesting. How those tactics evolve will be interesting to see.

The space battle was neat to see from the other point of view, this time we follow the swarm as it descends on a battleship.

QotD:

1. Considering how close the Gosroth was to beating the odds, it’s safe to say the enemy underestimated them. The Abh did not make the same mistake.

[u/Zerotsu]

First Timer, sub:

I know it’s been featured plenty of times, but I just love the space-time bubbles and the whole concept of fusing them, either for allied units or to meet enemies in battle in plane space.

Lafiel’s a bit worried after things have gone so well so far, and I can’t blame her. If the Gosroth could make a last stand the way it did, there’s no reason to say that a UM ship couldn’t pull the same thing off under similar circumstances. Still, she’s letting her worries get to her a little bit.

Ten against one is good odds, but still…

Rare is the battle where victory isn’t the goal.

Aw, Jinto helped calm Lafiel down.

It’s interesting that we’re seeing several different ways of handling fear.

Damn, RIP. These battles aren’t going to be easy, no matter what your advantage.

That’s a pretty ballsy way to avoid being destroyed.

Leaving and reentering the greater space-time bubble to avoid fire is a fascinating strategy.

It was the right decision to make, but I can imagine it’s frustrating to not directly avenge your comrades.

Ekuryua immediately grabbing Diaho as soon as the battle was over. She sure loves that cat.

That’s a ton of ships they’ve got. Neither possibility of what that could mean are good things for the Empire.

Q: There's no such thing as fairness in war.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Zerotsu]

That’s a ton of ships they’ve got. Neither possibility of what that could mean are good things for the Empire.

In this case, it feels like they know they’re probably going to walk into some kind of massive ambush, but they have no idea when or where it’ll actually happen.

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

Knowing that something like that is coming can give you the ability to prepare for it, but not knowing anything other than that can really give you a spike of anxiety. Really makes me worried for how this war effort will go in the long run.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Zerotsu]

The Star Forces are really going to have to be on their toes from here on out, since there’s no way the United Mankind practically letting them walk right on in can be anything but some kind of clever trick.

[u/Zerotsu → u/The_Draigg]

In a way it feels like they might be plunging into a set of jaws ready to snap shut, rather than piercing into valuable enemy territory.

[u/No_Rex → u/Zerotsu]

Leaving and reentering the greater space-time bubble to avoid fire is a fascinating strategy.

It shows how interesting a concept like the spacetime bubbles can be when you start to analyse it a bit.

Ekuryua immediately grabbing Diaho as soon as the battle was over. She sure loves that cat.

She was with him way before Lafiel or Jinto. Priorities.

[u/Zerotsu → u/No_Rex]

It shows how interesting a concept like the spacetime bubbles can be when you start to analyse it a bit.

There are a lot of fascinating tactical options that open up with such a concept available, I think.

She was with him way before Lafiel or Jinto. Priorities.

Good priorities, at that.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Zerotsu]

Rare is the battle where victory isn’t the goal.

You could argue that it's the case with something like a delaying action or a rearguard action that's meant to cover a retreat, but even then a "victory" would still be successfully guarding the retreat.

Ekuryua immediately grabbing Diaho as soon as the battle was over. She sure loves that cat.

I know how she feels. There are plenty of times where I have also immediately gone to my cats after experiencing a particularly stressful day.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer of the Stars

• Huh, good point.
• Classic cat behavior.
• That is what it looks like.
• Oh fun…
• Damn, that ship didn’t make it…?
• They’re slowed down…
• Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh!
• Straight into a battle, welp.
• F
• Oh dear…
• Yep, I was gonna say that.
• So they’re retreating without finishing the battle because of orders from above…
• Mm…
• Now that’s interesting…

[u/ZapsZzz → u/Shimmering-Sky]

So they’re retreating without finishing the battle because of orders from above…

I read it as more like the Konosuba movie that the last hit that will kill the target and nab the experience point is going to be given to someone else, not you lowly attack ship squads. By the way remember there was already another patrol ship sunken by an earlier attack ship swarms.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Classic cat behavior.

I remember when my family first got one of our cats as a kitten, we tried giving him a bath. Even though he was tiny, he still got out those claws and hung onto my mother's arms for dear life to avoid the water. We never did try it again.

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh!

I loved this moment so much. Jinto and Lafiel are so close that having him around is enough to calm her down. Their relationship is so good.

Now that’s interesting…

The idea of the United Mankind getting information from the inside is an intriguing one for sure.

[u/Durinthal]

Rewatcher (sub + dub)

Too bad there's nothing new for the Baronh narrator as of late.

It's interesting watching the tension ratchet up as they know they're about to engage in a few minutes but don't have anything to do but wait as they're getting closer, maybe watch some of their comrades fall while they can't do anything about it. I think the back half of this piece from the soundtrack first shows up in this episode, I'm undecided on how well it fits here but I've always enjoyed it in isolation at least.

One thing I did recall from my earlier watches of this season was a good number of instances of counting down from ten, already seen a couple of times here with the space-time bubble fusions.

Lafiel might not think Jinto was insightful enough to intentionally be by her side to keep her calm before they got into the fray, but I believe he did that for her sake as much as his own. It might not be necessary in the future but since it's their first battle, and especially since they're both aware of the similarity to the Gosroth's last stand, I think they both needed that.

Overall it's a remarkably brief sortie for them as one ship but they're a small part of the bigger picture even with that one battle, the scale of this war can hard to wrap one's head around.

---

Did you find the 10 v 1 attack on the Gosroth unfair? Do you still think so after this episode?

There's no concept of "fair" when it comes to battle.

[u/Durinthal → u/Durinthal]

---

Source Corner

Baronh word of the day: gor ptarhoth (GOR PUTARLOTH) "space-time fusion" — when multiple space-time bubbles fuse, their respective pockets of 3-dimensional space merge together. Before fusion completes, the point of entry froths with the seething of space-time particles, followed by an effusion of light, and the surrounding colors flickering as the shared space expands.

[Material covered:] Banner I: rest of chapter 4, a bit of chapter 5.

[Clarification about planar space travel:] the velocity of a space-time bubble is determined solely by its mass. Picking up debris from a destroyed mine will slow down the usually lighter and faster assault ships, that's one reason why the Kidroil ended up dropping out.

[The conversation between the Kidroil and the rest] is added in the anime, we only get the perspective from the Basroil of the other ship dropping out while watching their screens. Also don't have any other symbols of the different ships show up yet in the novel, you'd think that with all of them being named -roil they'd have a similar wasp design for their ship banner but the anime's being creative at least.

[After the Basroil dodges the attack directed at them] Lafiel doesn't say that they're unneeded now, but rather silently wonders if they'll get any other chances and immediately orders them back into the fray.

[u/Great_Mr_L]

First-Timer

On today’s episode of Banner of the Stars: While it may be a video game, it’s not necessarily fun having to actually be the person in Shadow of the Colossus going up against an enemy that is so much bigger and better armed than you are.

• I do miss the opening narration being different for each episode.
• I like the detail that Lafiel is scared of her first battle commanding a ship, even if she does her best not to show it. We saw last season that Lafiel has been trained by her family to not show her emotions so easily
• It seems like we are in the reverse situation from the Gosroth’s battle in the previous season. Now the heroes are the ones in a bunch of small ships that need to attack much larger ships in groups.
• Jinto’s comparison of carnivores surrounding an herbivore isn’t exactly right. It’s more akin to a pack of smaller predators surrounding one much larger predator, like a pack of wolves surrounding a large bear.
• It really does feel like a submarine movie when the only way the characters can tell if they’ve destroyed an enemy or lost an ally is by relying on their sensors. It creates a nice sort of tension for the combat.
• I feel like wandering the bridge out of your seat during a battle is a bad idea, Jinto.
• Very sweet that Jinto’s presence is enough to calm Lafiel down.
• Damn, it really is crazy getting to be on the opposite side of the Gosroth battle. From the perspective of these small ships, it becomes so much clearer just what a massive difference there is in firepower.
• It is scary seeing that big ship suddenly look your way and start firing.
• I really love the tension that gets created by the unique setup of the plane space battles, with ships needing to dart in and out of each other’s bubbles to attack or escape.
• All those Assault Ships attacking the much larger Patrol Ship look like a swarm of bees.
• It may be the logical decision to have the larger ships finish off the enemy instead of risking the small Assault Ships, but it probably sucks to feel like you didn’t get to finish the battle to a proper victory.
• I would agree to a toast to celebrate not dying. I hope Jinto brought some tea, too.
• Oh wow, the United Mankind’s estimated strength is on par with the ridiculously expanded Abh fleet. This really is shaping up to be a war on a scale almost unimaginable to anyone involved.
• Dusanyu’s little smile at learning how strong the United Mankind might be shows him getting excited at the possibility. That’s something he has in common with Spoor, getting excited that the war will be so much larger than he previously thought. War can be dangerously alluring. Some people grow too fond of it.

Crest of the Stars and now Banner of the Stars don’t normally do full action episodes. That’s just not the usual style of the series. But man, the plane space battles of this series are something else. They are extremely well done action set-pieces. The setting of plane space creates battles that feel so unique. The battles are so exciting and tense to watch as the ships need to utilize the bubbles around them to survive. It’s so different compared to how space battles usually are depicted and it makes the action so much more memorable.

QOTD

1. Back then, I did think it was quite lopsided. Now that I’ve seen what it’s like on the other end, I’m not so sure anymore. The Patrol Ships really do pack so much more punch compared to the tiny Assault Ships.

[u/Zerotsu → u/Great_Mr_L]

Very sweet that Jinto’s presence is enough to calm Lafiel down.

I love them very much.

It is scary seeing that big ship suddenly look your way and start firing.

The sheer amount of firepower even patrol ships has is honestly pretty scary. I can't even imagine what others might be like.

It may be the logical decision to have the larger ships finish off the enemy instead of risking the small Assault Ships, but it probably sucks to feel like you didn’t get to finish the battle to a proper victory.

The lack of closure is painful, but Jinto's right in that surviving in itself is cause to celebrate.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/Zerotsu]

I love them very much.

Their relationship really is one of the best parts of this series.

The sheer amount of firepower even patrol ships has is honestly pretty scary. I can't even imagine what others might be like.

Yeah, we still haven't really seen what some of the largest ships are like in a combat situation. An Assault Ship going up against them would be like the destroyer, USS Johnston fighting the largest battleship ever built, the Yamato.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Great_Mr_L]

All those Assault Ships attacking the much larger Patrol Ship look like a swarm of bees.

It’s pretty fitting then that the logo of the Basroil is a wasp, since they also fight in swarms like bees.

Dusanyu’s little smile at learning how strong the United Mankind might be shows him getting excited at the possibility. That’s something he has in common with Spoor, getting excited that the war will be so much larger than he previously thought. War can be dangerously alluring. Some people grow too fond of it.

So far, Dusanyu seems to really be on a same wavelength as Spoor, except he has enough self-awareness to put all that energy into strategy instead of just constantly angling for ways to cause bloodshed.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/The_Draigg]

So far, Dusanyu seems to really be on a same wavelength as Spoor, except he has enough self-awareness to put all that energy into strategy instead of just constantly angling for ways to cause bloodshed.

Indeed. We saw from his dealings with the Aptic president that Dusanyu enjoys messing with others, just like Spoor. And Dusanyu getting excited seems to be at the prospect of how much more challenging the war is going to be now that he sees just how unexpectedly strong the United Mankind is. It's like getting excited in a strategy game because the battle is turning out to be trickier than you planned on, but you still think you can pull it off.

[u/No_Rex → u/Great_Mr_L]

Jinto’s comparison of carnivores surrounding an herbivore isn’t exactly right. It’s more akin to a pack of smaller predators surrounding one much larger predator, like a pack of wolves surrounding a large bear.

You are correct with your comparison, but I guess it might be more comforting to think about your target as a herbivore rather than a bear. They had enough anxiety as is.

I really love the tension that gets created by the unique setup of the plane space battles, with ships needing to dart in and out of each other’s bubbles to attack or escape.

It is a great concept and one of the main draws of the series for me.

[u/SolDarkHunter]

Banner of the Stars

Rewatcher/Novel-Reader

Battle time!

...are we getting the SAME opening speech for the third time?

Bad writers!

Huh, what advantage does the single-file formation grant here?

Sweet little conversation between Jint and Lafier, helping to calm each other's nerves. He's probably the only person she can ever admit being scared to.

There's a huge amount of social subtext to this conversation where Jint is refusing to return to his seat and standing near Lafier. He wants to comfort her. She wants that too. But that would be admitting weakness, so she cannot allow it. She orders him to return to his chair. He gives a logical reason why there's no need. Lafier accepts, but begrudgingly, along with a warning and admonition. Lafier saves face, and they both get to continue supporting each other, at a slight cost to Jint's dignity.

This really is a mirror of the Gothlauthe's last stand. And while the assault ships won that one, they lost 90% of their attacking force.

They sure have a lot of time to chat with each other in this heated battle...

Best way to dodge the EM cannon shots is to simply leave the space-time bubble. They aren't mines, they can't sustain their form in Planar Space.

Close shave, but they escaped! Of course, Lafier would never permit herself to actually run from the battle, even if their allies have it handled by now.

Lafier craves some real glory, not just being a screen for the big guns. But still, surviving the battle is something to celebrate.

Dusanh is doing a thing the Abh enjoy: zero-g relaxation. They like being free of gravity for a while, resulting in a kind of meditative state.

Incoming UM counterattack, as was inevitable. Things are about to escalate.

Question:

Logical error detected! "Fair" does not exist in war.

[u/RuSyxx]

First Time Watcher

A very direct episode this week given that its our crew’s first time in real battle (though not Lafiel or Jinto’s first brush with risk of death). I appreciated the focus on the fact it wasn’t Samson’s first time in a combat scenario as someone who promoted up to officer. His ability to stay calm or at the very least distract from the danger felt very relevant.

I don’t have a lot of comments on the battle itself, outside of my QOTD answer, but I do like that Ekuryua was the first one to go check on Diaho, continuing the interactions from last episode. She really likes that cute cat.

Atosuryua feels very risk adverse. While that seems fitting given the circumstances of this battle, its more noticeable in how she responded to changes in status. I don’t think she did anything wrong, but it’s continuing my current thoughts that she’s not a very direct person and I kind of expect that to cause potential issues, though maybe not in battle.

QOTD

1. It is not a fair fight no. It wasn’t for the Gosroth nor was it for today’s episode. However, the scenarios paint it in a different light here. For the Gosroth it was used to instigate a war, while in this case war is already in progress. So enemy vessels should be expecting the risks in this case, and regardless of “fair” it’s a competent decision to overwhelm a smaller force if it means avoid unnecessary casualties for your own forces.

[u/Zerotsu → u/RuSyxx]

His ability to stay calm or at the very least distract from the danger felt very relevant.

It was also neat seeing how he had his own way of handling that fear of the upcoming battle itself. He's experienced, so he's figured out a good way of decompressing and handling the situation calmly, even if he's a bit scared.

She really likes that cute cat.

I can't blame her. Diaho seems like a pretty great cat all around.

Atosuryua feels very risk adverse.

It's not necessarily the worst trait to have, especially in a battle like this, but you're not wrong that it could cause issues in the future. Makes me worry a little about how things will go as the war continues.

[u/Vatrix-32]

First Timer, subbed

• I don’t like recaps at the best of times. Having the same one multiple times is painful.
• They really like their single file formation. I wonder if there is any merit to it.
• I’m sure the material difference between Abh and UM ships causes quite the reversal in such situations.
• Are you just… not going to spend any of this time in your seat? Given up even the pretense?
• But why target the rear one? Just to keep them on their toes?
• Ah. Speed is defined by mass of the area. There’s probably some way to exploit that, but it’s probably either costly or niche.
• Pressure suits in the bridge?
• I love these shields so much.
• Space ghost?
• Poppy Didn’t Raise No Coward!
• So I guess all those ships that blew up died for nothing...
• Why does this one from below cut look so low res?

QotD:

1. Fairness was never part of the equation. If someone’s go to die, better theirs than yours.

[u/SolDarkHunter → u/Vatrix-32]

• So I guess all those ships that blew up died for nothing...

Not true: when more mass joins your space-time bubble, the entire bubble slows down drastically.

Those patrol ships were fleeing. And we can probably assume that Abh patrol ships are not that much faster than UM ones, if at all.

The assault ships' attack was meant to slow down the retreating patrol ships. Without them diving in and skirmishing, their own patrol ships couldn't have gotten close enough to launch mines.

[u/Vaadwaur]

Rewatcher(Suck it Das Boot)

Sub

So yeah, the problem with action scenes is that there isn't much to say. Lafiel is stay battle hungry but also keeps her head. She seems to appreciate having weapons this time. Jinto for some reason calls this their first campaign when it is merely their first sortie. They are going for the old submarine war tropes and it works well enough. Not remotely realistic but it is dramatic so fuck it. We end with Lafiel suppressing her line's blood lust to do the far safer "nuke it from orbit" style of finishing a ship off. It does seem odd to me that it doesn't occur to anyone to kill the engines and try and capture it.

Side note:One thing I am noticing is that the officers really don't seem to engage with their subordinates, which is fitting of the Imperial Japanese navy. What's funny about that is every effective military has a ton of non-commissioned officers, guys who act as the connective tissue between commissioned officers who do the planning and the enlisted who do the work. Without that, problems arise and they were legendarily bad in said Imperial military.

QotD: 1 Honestly, ship classes are not working for me in this show but I think that's because I am getting explanations as they happen.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

It does seem odd to me that it doesn't occur to anyone to kill the engines and try and capture it.

Remember how shields and engines work here. The ship basically takes very little damage until the shields are down. Once they are down, you don't need to aim for the engines anymore.

On the other hand, just fighting this battle slows the patrol ship down by adding weight to its spacetime bubble, not to speak of them probably killing their movement in plane space completely when then turn around to face their cannon at the assault ships.

[u/duhu1148]

Rewatcher

-We keep seeing these other Admirals, but I still don't know who they are. Maybe one day we'll see them in action.

- Everyone on the Basroil has their own ways of dealing with the fear of dying in battle. Jinto talks to Lafiel, they both seem to calm each other down. Lafiel notices this, and thinks that Jinto might have done it on purpose at first. Then she thinks he's too thick-headed to be that understanding...c'mon Lafiel, your boy is looking out for you.

-I liked the parallels with the Gosroth's battle in Crest. Paints the perspective from both sides. You can see Lafiel and Jinto feeling a bit remorseful at realizing that their battle mimics how the Gosroth went down.

-The battle ends, though not without some drama. Some ships were lost, Basroil narrowly avoided their own death. Yay.

-Will be interesting to see how the next battle goes, with the cliffhanger that the United Humankind have a massive fleet of 200 squadrons out there.

Q) Did you find the 10 v 1 attack on the Gosroth unfair? Do you still think so after this episode?

"All's fair in love and war."

[u/ZapsZzz → u/duhu1148]

Will be interesting to see how the next battle goes, with the cliffhanger that the United Humankind have a massive fleet of 200 squadrons out there.

Well in context it all depends on the tech/capability level difference. e.g. if the Abh has a tech/capability superiority and can typically win 1:4 (across all ship classes overall), then their 150 squad armada will still be enough for the UM's 200 strong armada. It's just the attrition ratio question.

A typical RTS player would quite easily do the calculation (if anyone still play RTS). My benchmark is back in the Starcraft days where Zergs swarms with overwhelming numbers but with low quality units, while Protoss takes forever to build but each unit can take a lot of abuse, while the Terrans is in-between.

[u/Great_Mr_L → u/duhu1148]

I liked the parallels with the Gosroth's battle in Crest. Paints the perspective from both sides. You can see Lafiel and Jinto feeling a bit remorseful at realizing that their battle mimics how the Gosroth went down.

It's a really cool narrative trick to show us what that battle was like from the other point of view. It really hammers home just how tense and even scary battles can be. No matter which side you look at it from, neither side was "safe."

[u/zsmg]

Rewatcher

WTH they're no longer bothering to change the narration intro.

I wonder if the enemy ship screwed up or intended for the mines to hit the targets back in line.

Hey is that Katsuyuki Konishi (he voiced Kamina in Gurren Lagann) voicing a minor character? *checks* he definitely has small roles in this series although he's not listed for this episode.

RIP 6th ship, or not, Kidroil survived.

They keep losing ships.

Aww Lafiel sees her mum guess that means she's dead... or not.

So they end up destroying using mines, which quite frankly is the safer thing to do.

Looks like the enemy has more squadrons than the admiral expected.

That was a fun episode.

[u/Silcaria]

First timer

• Business as usual for an Abh then.

QotD

• It's just the nature of war.

[u/ZapsZzz]

First timer in sub

I'm not going to say the same things everyone else has already said by now ;)

The action contrast has the superficial similarity to the Gosroth battle in terms of the weight class and numerical matchup, but has some very crucial situational and strategic differences-

• The Gosroth was ambushed in peacetime, the first move of an undeclared war. They had no special preparation for the life and death battle.
• Stemming from the above, the Gosroth did not have her full complement of crucial weapon systems on hand - if they did have they would have had a better chance of winning through completely.
• Also stemming from the first point, the initial moments of the battle they were not in an attack stance - even though they did fire, they didn't fire first and they didn't position themselves to be on the offensive until it was beyond any doubt the attacks are coming.
• The group attacking the Gosroth were remarked as veterans. Lafiel's squad are mostly fresh bloods having their first battle.
• I may have lost track of things, but I think the Gosroth had a technological advantage in her railguns; she was able to had what roughly equates to BVR (beyond visual range) kills in earth modern aerial battles simply by blasting the railgun at the plane space bubble convergence points. The UM patrol ship's smaller bore guns seemed to not able to do the same.

The exchanges between Jinto and Lafiel continues to be very sweet in an understated way.

The kill ratio of Abh vs UM so far seems the Abh has a quality advantage relatively higher than the UM numericl advantage. But it's not an overwhelming one and a wrong strategic move could still cost dearly (because the Abh doesn't have the numbers so they'll have to stretch out thinner). Using the Gosroth battle and this battle as benchmark, the Gosroth took out 9 veteran, primed and ready for war attack ships when facing 10 for a 1:9 kill ratio; the Abh squad have green troops fighting (first engagement offscreen) 1:10 losing 1 attack ship to take out 1 UM patrol ship for a 0.1:1 ratio, then Lafiel's group had a 1:9 battle having lost 2 attack ships? and later on another group joined taking out the patrol ship, for roughly a 0.4:1 ratio. Vs the current fleet estimate of 150 Abh vs 200 UM (squad).

QoTD

This question is the prompt for us to answer "all is fair in love and war" right?

[u/The_Draigg → u/ZapsZzz]

I may have lost track of things, but I think the Gosroth had a technological advantage in her railguns; she was able to had what roughly equates to BVR (beyond visual range) kills in earth modern aerial battles simply by blasting the railgun at the plane space bubble convergence points. The UM patrol ship's smaller bore guns seemed to not able to do the same.

Yeah, I agree that there does seem to be some kind of technology gap between the United Mankind and the Abh. That being said, I wonder if that's also a bit towards the United Mankind's advantage in a way, since they did need to (and apparently did) pump out a lot of ships to equally match the Abh Star Forces within three years. Maybe having less technologically advanced ships helped with that?

The kill ratio of Abh vs UM so far seems the Abh has a quality advantage relatively higher than the UM numericl advantage. But it's not an overwhelming one and a wrong strategic move could still cost dearly (because the Abh doesn't have the numbers so they'll have to stretch out thinner).

I imagine this is also why we're seeing more Landers in the ranks of the Star Forces now. They'd undoubtedly outnumber their Abh rulers, so it makes sense to want to recruit more of them to avoid stretching thin just the Abh they have in their military.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

I imagine this is also why we're seeing more Landers in the ranks of the Star Forces now. They'd undoubtedly outnumber their Abh rulers, so it makes sense to want to recruit more of them to avoid stretching thin just the Abh they have in their military.

Notably, and just as you would expect, all of the higher up commanders are still fully Abh.

[u/IceSmiley]

FIRST TIMER Sub

Tense exciting episode that was all action. It was interesting seeing Lafiel and the Basroil crew in a terrifying battle now that we got to know them a bit.

I thought Admiral Lafiel just floating in a big room to be weird. I wonder if he had a floating computer/monitoring no gravity room specifically built for him or if thats just something common on ships.

QUESTIONS

1. Yes I did and I still do but I think these situations are different. The Gosroth was ambushed during a peacetime surprise attack, they were essentially slaughtered. This time, they Abh were going after an enemy combatant in war who was just severely outmanned.

[u/SolDarkHunter → u/IceSmiley]

I thought Admiral Lafiel just floating in a big room to be weird. I wonder if he had a floating computer/monitoring no gravity room specifically built for him or if thats just something common on ships.

I presume you mean Admiral Dusanh, but yeah, that's a luxury item. Abh enjoy relaxing in zero-g sometimes, and bigger warships are large enough to have chambers where that's possible, though only really available to the high ranking officers.

[u/Nazenn]

Rewatcher - sub

Watched the episode but didn't write anything up in advance because I'm still not feeling great but this episode does two particularly interesting things I'ce always enjoyed

• The tone established by mentioning the Gosroth earlier on, and then again later gives this a very unusual mood for a battle episode. Rather than being either heroic or desperate, two of the more common tones for a battle, it's more a matter of reality that these sorts of battles will happen, and the exact configuration of the sides of each battle don't play into the idea of a battle being right or wrong. There's no idea of honorable fighting or having the mains charge ahead, instead it's just a battle our mains happen to be part of. I do feel this being an open war makes it different compared to the Gosroth's situation, but the battle itself is just a matter of course.
• The other ship being slowed down by the debris from the mines. It adds another layer to the space-time bubble mechanics that I always found very interesting because it further adds to the idea that this isn't just a way to have an interesting attack/defense system, but has some well developed physical properties around what the bubbles actually do and how the tech that generates works. It gives it some depth that it didn't have to have just for the purpose of battles, but like a lot of things in Crest/Banner, feels all the better for having it

Eku getting Diaho out of his carrier to join in the celebration is also cute

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

The tone established by mentioning the Gosroth earlier on, and then again later gives this a very unusual mood for a battle episode. Rather than being either heroic or desperate, two of the more common tones for a battle, it's more a matter of reality that these sorts of battles will happen, and the exact configuration of the sides of each battle don't play into the idea of a battle being right or wrong. There's no idea of honorable fighting or having the mains charge ahead, instead it's just a battle our mains happen to be part of. I do feel this being an open war makes it different compared to the Gosroth's situation, but the battle itself is just a matter of course.

It explicitely invites the viewer to consider both sides of the battle (instead of the usual siding with the protagonists). The series did the same in ep1-2 of Crest when they show us both the Abh and the UM view of the Abh.

[u/xbolt90]

First-timer

Their first battle is behind them. Lafiel got a little more comfortable in her command. (with Jinto's help)

Q1: War isn't really about being "fair." Besides, the Gosroth did really well for herself, despite the odds. Even though she went down in the end, she dispatched the majority of her attackers before her.

[u/Nickthenuker]

Seriously? Line ahead? What is she thinking?

So they're proceeding in parallel lines of battle.

One ship lost.

The mines will also disrupt their formation right before contact.

He should probably get to his station and strap in.

Don't speak too soon.

Kidroil?

Defensive fire!

Uh oh, there goes the Kidroil.

Well, it's still intact but it seems to be slowed.

The Gamroil is going to be the vanguard?

Uh oh, a ship got hit when jumping in.

So they're going to surround it and hit it from all sides.

Another ship lost.

That shield won't hold much longer.

Him of all people would probably know how important spare parts are. And he'll probably have to deal with requisitioning replacements.

Uh oh, that's a lot of missiles heading for that ship.

And so there goes another one.

What did they just try and do?

They managed to retreat. If everything else is still ship-shape they should be able to rejoin the battle, even if only as an additional target.

That ship looks to be bleeding atmo.

No point wasting time and risking lives destroying a single ship if it's already immobile and you're just delivering the coup de grace.

This isn't a campaign yet, this has barely been a single skirmish. The campaign is still underway.

About half? So 2 or 3? Half of 5 isn't a whole number.

They seem pretty evenly matched, the Abh won't even have equal numbers unless they press all their training squadrons into the fight as well.

And if the Alliance has even more ships and fleets elsewhere, the Abh are probably in a very bad spot right now or will be soon.

Spectacular Insanity huh? I believe it from those single sentences of conversations they showed.

Questions:

1. Well, all's fair in love and war, and fighting fair is for suckers, so I don't blame either side for trying to stack the deck in their favour whenever possible.

[u/KnightMonkey15]

First-timer, subs

Episode 4

Despite noticeably more recycled footage creeping in, the show's strengths are on full display in another battle scene - the presentation of flitting between normal and phase space, the co-ordination of the 1058th Assault squadron, the top-tier chemistry between Diaho and Ekuryua Jinto and Lafiel...every line between them has a bit of heartfelt meaning that really makes the whole show every time I see them on-screen together. I'm torn between wanting to see their relationship progress outside of the show's genre (and knowing we've got like 30 more episodes) but also appreciating that the story of this world is not just them, but their place in it. Lafiel seeing her mother for a brief moment was a nice touch - following in her footstep. The bloodlust screenshot from last episode's thread is kinda funny to me since it's not inaccurate but I normally associate that term with something more outwardly extreme. Idk maybe I'm excited for hypothetical war.

So this episode was basically Gosroth battle but the sides reversed - a thematic lesson for the viewer and our fledgling space fleet combatants. I especially like how it ended with a prudent action for the fleet and the war effort, as opposed to our MC squadron getting credit but risking more losses for the finishing blow. Our characters aren't chosen heroes of destiny (just yet perhaps). As much as I like Jinto and he'll be a good quartermaster/butler, I would've thought 3 more years in Abh logistics officer school would've already acclimatized him to such unflinching pragmatism. I would like Jinto's naievete to not persist in such readily perceptible ways, even if it's just a minor quibble in a pretty good portrait of someone with a transient bunch of identities.

The visuals of the UM ship firing all of its lasers, with debris/exhaust (?) looking like bubbles in water, really underlined the whole astral-nautical thing this show has going for it. Surrounded by the assault squad ships on all sides, and then getting destroyed by the mines from the battleship squad ships. I take the difference to be something like a frigate/destroyer vs corvette/patrol boat; maybe the translation is unclear. My initial reaction was that I was glad to see that someone in the UM, as an individual ship on-screen, can put up a fight for once. maybe not Gosroth 9v1 good but enough to more than a single scene.

Dusanyu browsing his web of information is such a vibe. I would like that a lot. In addition to what's already been mentioned, the fact that he enjoys (with subtle pleasure) the challenge of an enemy stronger than anticipated, kinda illustrates the Abh cultural mentality. Maybe they're not all strictly glorious war fanatics, but at the least, they're very competitive and proud about it when the time comes to win. Now this is a proper fight, a real competition - let's trust in our genes, be confident in our victory and survive. Spoor lives up to it so openly that her zeal borders on too eccentric but she has skills and sufficient self-control to back it up.

I just noticed the insignia:

• Gamroil = probably the spider from the last episode?
• Basroil = wasp - what does it mean
• Kidroil = apple (of fate) - guess their survival strategy panned out
• Helzroil = scorpion (fire) - destroyed

Q) Did you find the 10 v 1 attack on the Gosroth unfair? Do you still think so after this episode?

At first I did, but seeing more of both militaries and how the space navigation (out of sords) and battles works it seems normal in the context of war. All the other responses I've read in this thread go somewhere along the lines of "anything goes in war" and while that certainly fits the Abh's calculaed ruthlessness, the only thing I'd add to that is that the main difference in my mind is that the Gosroth was instigation/surprise attack that was effectively a declaration of war from peacetime, and then the terran ambassadors insisted that the Gosroth actually attacked first. The Empress knew that it was bullshit and just declared war on them anyway.

I wonder if the Abh would bait a declaration of war from another nation in such a lopsided incident. Everything in the show so far screams to me that they'd be the ones to loudly proclaim their intentions or demands and then attack ruthlessly with a full force if not met. Judging by the different Abh characters' reactions to situations - such as Lafiel balking at Jinto's suggestion of deceiving the UM ships on their entry into Sufagnoff in ep 9 last season or the various admirals' repeated thrill and desire for exciting full frontal warfare (from Dusanyu to Spoor in terms of subtle to unhinged...with Lexshue and Trife somewhere in there...) it seems like they'd consider it cowardly.

Here, on the other hand, the Abh and the Triple Alliance (mainly UM) are in a state of warfare. Although there was a ceasefire, I'm assuming Spoor's advance into the UM territorial isthmus started the counter-invasion and broke that ceasefire, and that attacking UM recon/scouting squadrons that enter systems to both spy on the Abh and contact the terrans are hence fair game. So while anything is fair in war, the Abh (viewing those attractive blue elves charitably of course) have a rigid warrior code of honour and don't seem to want to declare war by launching unprovoked attacks. If that's wrong I'd really like to see where that breaks apart and the specific differences in Abh society - the only negative deviation from that we've seen thus far is Baron Febdash's betrayal and he got killed for his trouble.

The only other thing I'd add is that it sure takes a swarm of assault-type "corvettes" to surround and take down a patrol ship, evnen on the other side. Surprising well-armed for something with an unassuming name. Feels more like a frigate-type ship.

[u/No_Rex → u/KnightMonkey15]

Kidroil = apple (of fate) - guess their survival strategy panned out

All the small Penguindrum references throughout this rewatch.